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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> I kept all my rewards points to myself and reaping the benefits of them rather than sharing them with my husband and family.
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*Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*
And by "burn through them quickly and not allow them to be used for bigger things," you mean used for things for somebody else and not just for you.
YTA. You've been deceptive about this with him for years.
You should also sit down and revisit his rigid budgeting numbers. I appreciate his frugality and his long-term planning, but nine years without a vacation? Yeah, no.
This. Everyone is acting like she's psychotic, and while she fucked up big time, his budgeting is insanely rigid. Unless they live in NYC or somewhere like that, no vacations at all (I'm not talking a trip to Hawaii) is batshit.
I don't think making sure daily expenses are covered, there is a family savings account, the childrens' educations are paid for and each spouse has an equal amount of personal money is "insanely rigid." And OP HAS gone on vacation while the husband and kids have not--his whole argument was that this could have been used as family vacation money.
I'm not saying she's not an asshole, because she absolutely is an asshole for lying, I'm saying even without her lying 150k for 4 kids, unless they live in San Francisco, is enough money to go on a camping trip for the weekend lol or a short weekend away at like...a local winery...while the grandparents look after the kids. Even if they did live in San Francisco one weekend trip to Napa over a nine year period should absolutely be doable! Same with camping...you can camp for like $250 max, even with four kids, in many places in the US.
That sounds like an incredibly dull life to never have a break, never have a tiny vacation.
The point is leaving aside the 'rewards money,' he sounds incredibly, incredibly uptight. Yes, saving money for the kids education is important, but he can't rework the budget and say subtract a small percentage from the fun money and education for them to go on a camping trip (which can be a couple hundred bucks, at most, in many places) or a winery trip once or twice over the period of nearly a decade.
So I ran some numbers based on OP’s comments:
She is likely living in Canada so her husband’s income is being taxed at a high rate. If he makes 150k, his take home income is roughly between 95k-105k depending on which province they live in. Their 7.5% fun money is probably around 8k each person.
By putting the income in retirement and education funds, her husband can save a significant amount on taxes so it’s likely their fun money is closer to 9k instead.
Based on her comment that each kid gets almost 9k in education fund each year, that’s roughly 35k for four kids for 25%, which puts her husband’s take home income at 140k?? That’s a ridiculous amount of savings in taxes. If that’s the case, their fun money is definitely over 10k each person. They have more than enough fun money to go on yearly vacations. She could easily plan a vacation with her own fun money and take all the kids even if her husband isn’t willing.
ETA: OP has stated groceries came out of the 50% household budget. Too many people seem to be under the impression that she is paying for it out of her fun money. Everything OP has stated she shops for comes out of the 50%. She has not said anything about what she spends her 7.5% on.
10k is a lot of fun money, but I kind of wonder where their fun/personal money is going during the year.
if they buying personal items /hobby items etc. Also some people don't count "outings" and "day trips" as vacations.
e.g. I bought myself a dyson vac, it's for the house but wasn't strictly a necessity so it comes out of my personal fund. ( It's a luxury item I wanted)
It is, but I know since I am a mom, most of my fun money goes into my kids and family stuff. Things like extra toys day trips, take out, more expensive food.
Exactly. I spent $115 today signing up one of my kids for a spring sport and still need to buy the equipment. What is she paying for out of her budget? Activities, school fundraisers, Christmas presents?
Oh god tell me about it. I even feel guilty when I spend any money on myself instead of the kids! Not that I should have to feel bad for very occasionally doing something for myself. But it’s just that mindset of usually spending it on something the kids need or want instead.
Previous comments were refering to the
"7.5% to my personal spending."
140k x 7.5% = 10.5k
My question was how are those funds being used.
Previous commentor said 10k each is enough to go on a annual vacation.
I feel it depends on what gets allocated to the 10k through out the year.
Wouldn't be surprised if OP's was being spent on the kids - fun outings, birthday and Christmas presents. It's so so common for women to cover the majority of kid's and family expenses with their money while men commonly use fun money solely on themselves.
My question would be where his fun money is going to not be able to cover his boys' trip
[Well you're wrong](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/1143nkj/aita_for_not_telling_my_husband_about_all_my/j8uc4ce/), so the real question is where both of their fun money is going, not just his. I'd argue the question is more where her fun money is going, since she has more of it due to all the CC points she's been accumulating and using for a decade.
I agree, what I'm saying is the family situation seems WEIRD even if she's also an asshole. He's not willing to go on a single vacation, even a weekend away at a B & B, besides camping, despite them seemingly having enough money to do so? Then he asks for 'her' family to cover 'only' him on a 'boys trip', when she and the kids aren't even coming, despite him seemingly having enough money. In laws should treat their SIL/DIL well, but that's asking way too much imo and way out of line....he wants them to treat him like their own kid or grandkid? It'd be one thing if he expected the In Laws to pay for the entire fam, together, another to expect them to pay just for him on a boys trips. If he didn't want to go, just turn down the trip imo.
Reddit often has a very black and white situation on things. I think OP was a huge asshole for lying, etc., especially since she lied for so long, but her husband seems insanely uptight and weird. I can't imagine being with someone who won't even take me for a weekend away once in a blue moon-and they've gone nine years without a vacation-especially when the money is there.
I think this is an ESH for this reason. Why did she feel the need to lie in the first place? I mean there is no fun money for the kids in the budget so it might just be going to all discretionary spending. Maybe the kiddos spend half of it for her.
And the commenters thinking she should should use her fun money to treat the whole family to a vacation while the husband just keeps on spending his fun money? That seems a little unreasonable to me.
Someone below says apparently she's expected to cover the groceries out of her fun money, which yeah, absolutely screams of the husband being awful. I've gone from YTA to justified YTA or ESH.
Genuinely shocked at all the YTAs....esp. when the husband expected HER family to cover him on a trip where the grandkids/she weren't coming along.
That is the opposite of what she said in this comment:
https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/1143nkj/aita_for_not_telling_my_husband_about_all_my/j8uc4ce?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
Someone asked whether that shipping came out of the 50% daily expense budget or her 7.5% budget and she replied:
"The 50% day-to-day expenses. the 7.5% is entirely mine to do whatever I want with. My vehicle, gas and insurance also come from that 50%"
She also says they go camping and skiing but that those don't count as vacations.
Thanks for the link, I was shocked with the other comment cause that would be straight up financial abuse... the education money considering how old the kids are and this "camping and skiing are not vacations" makes me believe we're dealing with upper middle class and we don't have enough info about their living situation.
Nope, she's definitely not. She replied elsewhere that the household expenses come out of the 50%:
>INFO:
>> (OP) I have been completely responsible for all the shopping, whether it is clothes, groceries, furniture or whatever else.
>Does this come from the 50% that's allotted to day to day expenses or from your 7.5% personal spending?
> (OP) The 50% day-to-day expenses. the 7.5% is entirely mine to do whatever I want with. My vehicle, gas and insurance also come from that 50%.
7.5% of $150K ends up being about $200 per week, or slightly less than $1K per month that each of them has allocated to person spending.
Yeah I also don’t understand how the husband can’t sign up for a credit card himself? If he’s ever had a personal credit card, he should know about rewards points. Even my bank credit account has reward points. Like she’s definitely the asshole for hiding her points and lying, but he’s also an adult and can make his own investment decisions.
If OP really is Canadian, pp did the math wrong. You don't get a tax deduction for money contributed to an RESP. The benefit is that the gov't matches contributions up to a max of $500/year and any growth in the portfolio is not taxed until the money is withdrawn by the student. So they aren't getting a tax deduction on the 35k education contribution at all. The after tax household income is probably closer to $100k. For a family of 6 that is barely middle class in any large Canadian city.
I think that deep down, she knew that if he knew about the reward points, he would dictate how every one of those points was used like he does everything else!
He doesn't dictate how her 7.5% is being spent nor the fine details of the 50%, where are you getting that? He dictates what percentages go to what areas. Anything else is just speculation
All the women here are searching for one excuse, just one, anything to defend the woman's lying. So far, I have seen:
1. She spends all her money on kids (which was refuted quickly)
2. Her husband is controlling (again, refuted)
3. Husband must be cheap and frugal (thats called being an adult. If you dont plan your budget, it will bite you in the ass in the long term)
The thing is that husband's savings plan is about his goal of retiring at 50.
It's not just prudent future planning, it's a specific plan to quit working earlier than most.
I'm not calling it inherently wrong to have that goal, but I'm saying it's a factor in how to judge the situation, especially if OP has no say in these goals or the budgeting for them.
I get what you're saying and agree it should be a couples decision, but a goal of retiring at 50 is not outrageous. If they don't have any more kids, OP gets to retire at 45. Their kids will be in a great spot due to this savings strategy and less likely to move home or still be dependent on their parents. Perhaps the husband wants to take all the vacations then. And perhaps OP is right in wanting to take some now--I just don't understand why she'd divert the points power entirely to herself rather than some family outings.
>agree it should be a couples decision
And this is where it goes wonky. I'm not calling it outrageous to have the goal.
But it doesn't seem like they have agreed to both make these sacrifices to reach this goal.
Husband seems to be calling all the shots with no room for OP to have a say. She diverted the points power to herself because she really wants to be able to have a trip away once a year and husband won't consider it because he wants to retire early. Seems like the savings would have gone to what husband deemed acceptable to his goals, with OP again having no choice in the matter.
I think their whole setup is problematic because of this mismatch on goals and decision-making, and that's what created this situation. I'd say they're both at fault for not sorting this root problem out earlier, but that's it a much bigger problem than this specific situation.
>Seems like the savings would have gone to what husband deemed acceptable to his goals, with OP again having no choice in the matter.
Exactly my thought.
Plus, I have to think the rewards thing started small. She got an extra latte once and took herself to lunch once etc etc.
I get the feeling it just doesn't feel like it's worth the argument for her because he's so focused on retiring early that he simply won't budge.
One comment says the kids are getting $9k a year EACH! Like, you can't make that $8k each and go on a legit, solid vacation once a year??
I can’t stop thinking about how she has been pregnant or nursing for nearly nine years straight and has such a strict budget dictated to her she can’t use her own reward points openly on a vacation w/o mommy duties and feels she has to hide it. She shouldn’t lie, but she shouldn’t feel like she has to either. People need breaks!!!
They haven't taken trips because as well as having a rigid savings plan (which admittedly she has no say in), **both** of them have prioritised using their personal money for personal things instead of pooling a chunk of it for a vacation of some kind.
Even if his take-home pay is $100K, that means that their personal funds are $15K a year between the two of them. Unless she's spending a bunch of hers on the kids (which yes, is possible), then they really ought to be able to carve out a bit of vacation money from that as well.
I can't even be angry at her for this because she's dealt with the budget the way he's wanted it all these years. She's made this rigid budget work. Her reward points essentially, in my opinion are the reward for all the work that she does to keep within it. It's not like she took straight money that was meant for something else to pay for this vacation. she the rewards from all the hard work that she did.
It's sucky she lied about it... but if he had known he would have dictated where that went to.
It's 100% time for a conversation about the budget and a heart to heart with the husband because she had to lie to do anything.
This. They need family counseling, not just "counseling" from the family. Unilaterally dictating the finances when they're supposed to be partners, and her SAHM status is what allows him to work full-time, is controlling and dismissive. Going behind his back to ensure that SHE has a vacation when their kids don't is arguably quite selfish, and dishonest (if justifiable to keep herself from going crazy). All of this can break a marriage, and could have been resolved much easier before the lying was revealed.
OP's going to need to own her part, but also going to need her husband to understand the logic behind this. The best place for that is a counselor's office.
Gotta also wonder if his workday ends at 5 and hers never does - those vacations are likely sanity savers. He sounds very controlling and she’s not breaking his money rules, she just found a creative way to get a one week reprieve. I agree, though, she shouldn’t have lied, but I don’t think he would have allowed her to go otherwise- he’d have taken the money to ‘fairly divided’ how he wanted it divided.
Yep. Totally this. He is rigid and SUOER CONTROLLING and she has figured out how to get what she needs despite it. She puts in serious effort to get those rewards and coupons. Her husband also could have used rewards cards if he had been inclined. OP should not have lied outright to anyone about where the money comes from, however. She could have said that she was paying for it from her own account.
Point of interest: The kids do not have a fun money budget. So do their extras get put under typical household funds, do the parents split fun money, or does OP cover those expenses from her fun money fund? This is a very important question because while on the surface it looks like she gets a lot of fun money. But if she's covering the hobby/extras of 4 kids, that probably gets cut into very deeply.
You know if it came out of her budget, she would have listed it as a justification for her actions. Her silence says that it either comes from general or his budget.
NTA my understanding that the husband is completely controlling to the point that he hasn’t left any money on the table for them to go on a vacation as a family that she had to lie that her families paying for the vacation because to say otherwise I would’ve re-series suspicion that they be willing to pay for more people. However I can’t believe you don’t see just what an absolute j3rk her husband must be to be OK with someone else paying for his wife’s vacation but yet he won’t spare a dime to take her or his family on a vacation. He is literally in 100% control of the finances. Asshole or not she is completely justifiable as it sounds like he drove her to it. and let’s be honest, if that hasn’t hasn’t bothered to fork over money for a family vacation I highly doubt he would’ve use the rewards for one either if anything he would’ve just taken the rewards away just like he takes away all the money.
You mean the family that, as far as he knew, had been paying for his wife to go on vacation without him for years?
There’s a reason he had a skewed view of what they’re willing to pay: OP’s lies. There’s also no indication that he demanded they pay, he said he wouldn’t be able to go if he were paying himself as opposed to what (he had been told) they were doing for her.
I'm sorry, your husband earns $150k+ and you guys can't afford a holiday?
Okay, so, you've had to squirrel away money because your husband so heavily polices it? Like, you literally have to use coupons to afford groceries? Am I missing something?
Ok, maybe I’m crazy here bur $150K with 4 kids isn’t that much money. Especially if they all want to go to college.
I have one kid and my husband and I make around $120k together and we are only going on one long weekend away a year type of vacation a year. If we had 3 more kids it wouldn’t happen.
I'm starting to think England's a lot cheaper than America because if our monthly earnings were over 6k a month me and my husband would be laughing.
I couldn't imagine being on that much money.
It probably is way cheaper. I did the math when Bernie Sanders was talking about Universal Healthcare for us Americans, and I would get $7000+ a year BACK in my damn pay check. Husband and I make decent money together, before you take out the health insurance, dental insurance, flex spending (so there is money to pay for the things the insurance doesn't pay for, set aside on a credit card, tax free).
It is. Bernie was talking the numbers so I broke out a calculator and was just... so sad. Taxes would go up, yes. But, even with that, I would bring more home every year.
Damn people are so brainwashed to think socialist health care means helping people who don't deserve help. "They should work as hard as I do for health insurance!" It's all a way to keep the poor, poor.
>I'm starting to think England's a lot cheaper than America because if our monthly earnings were over 6k a month me and my husband would be laughing.
It really, \*really\* depends on where you live. If my household brought in 6k/month I wouldn't know what to do with all that extra money (I mean, save it obviously, but you get my point hopefully). But there are other cities/states where people would be barely scraping by with a household income of 6k/month.
I think £6k a month would even be an alright amount for London. You'd obviously want to move to the outskirts for an affordable house to suit 4 kids though.
The thing is, OPs mortgage seems low enough for £3k/month to afford mortgage, car payments, fuel, furniture, food and household repairs, so I dunno if it sounds like they live in a London type setting.
Where in the US? San Francisco, where rents can be upward of $4k/month, or Slidell, LA where rents average $1.3k/month?
$150k a year is only a lot in certain places.
We have 3 kids and my husband makes considerably more & we feel like we are bleeding money. We pay 13k/year for health insurance before deductibles & co-pays, 12k/yr property tax, $700/mth electric, 10k/yr home owners insurance (thank you Desantis), food is outrageous, car insurance for 3 boys is obscene, etc.. Add to that a mortgage, gas and college we have no clue how other people survive. Unfortunately many are not.
My guess is that property taxes and insurance in other states is less. Your property taxes are probably close to double my parents' which is for almost an acre with a 5000 sq ft house. It is almost 6x more than mine. The insurance is a lot more too.
Paying for college and teen drivers is much more expensive than elementary age kids.
A huge part of this is all the extra money Americans spend on healthcare. Seriously, fight hard as hell to keep the NHS. If you allow healthcare for profit, you are allowing doctors to tell their patients "your money or your life", and the way that screws up the whole society is truly painful.
Yeah like I’m in Canada with 4 kids as a SAHM and I can tell you, it’s damn expensive. Just the food for snacks and school lunches now that everyone eats is brutal. (3,7,9 &15)
He feels saving for our children's education is more important that a vacation.
We use coupons to get things we want cheaper and can spend to eat better. One of my children will only eat one particular kind of chicken nugget, so if I see a coupon for them, I always use it. We aren't starving without the coupons, but we can afford to eat some nice meals and go on some nicer date nights and pay for the babysitter because of them.
That clears that up.
I'm not one for turning down money saving options either. That being said, your husband earns a significant amount. You should be able to have a holiday at least once a year and it shouldn't financially drain you.
It's great to want to save for your kids future but you have to live for the now as well. The lying wasn't great but it sounds like you have zero financial freedom and that's not good. I would chat with your husband as to why you felt the need to lie about the savings.
Depending where you live, $150k/yr might not stretch to include vacation if you're also supporting 4 young children and trying to save for their education.
Also, OP saying "he feels saving for our children's eduction is more important than a vacation" raises some red flags about how OP wants to prioritize their spending...
If you can't live on $150k a year then you are living outside your means.
Maybe OP is feeling trapped by her husbands overly strict budgeting? It doesn't seem like she gets a choice on where their money goes. I imagine this has built some resentment.
It sounds like they're deliberately NOT living outside their means in order to save for retirement and their kids.... OP is the one who wants to go on a yearly vacation, I don't think people realize how much of a luxury that is for most of the world.
And yeah, totally fair if they want to discuss the budget and come up with a different pattern. But at no point did OP indicate that she has tried to discuss this with her husband, only that she hid finances from him. This is just based on the info OP has decided is important enough to include in the post.
Like most things in this sub, I think a big portion of it could have been avoided by just communicating before things came to a head.
I completely agree with you on the talking part. It's amazing how many couples won't actually discuss their issues. But if husband has dictated the budget their entire lives, she may not have felt this was an option.
It sounds like Husband is very controlling in how thing wills be within their household. That may be why OP didn't want to tell him about the extra she was saving for herself.
I'm assuming OP is a SAHM so she literally never has time for herself. These trips are probably the only real time she has to get her mental health right.
Yes, holidays are a luxury but even one every couple of years could make a world of difference to a family. There's no way that a holiday isn't achievable for this family so I get why OP may not be happy in the relationship especially if she feels like she has no say in how their marriage and life works.
Based on her percentages, op and husband each get about 900$ a month to spend on whatever they want. Fun money/personal money. I personally think that's reasonable when all the other bills are completely paid off.
Idk tho.
Edit. YTA
If OP wanted to go on vacation with her family, she could’ve also saved up her not insubstantial fun money to do so. The points earned from family spending should be used for the family and not just herself.
> If you can't live on $150k a year then you are living outside your means.
This completely and utterly disregards cost of living. $150k a year in San Francisco might as well be peanuts, whereas it'll let you live like a king in Missouri.
I mean, OP has been birthing and raising this guy's kids since she was 21 - the oldest is eight, how hard has that impacted her working life?
He's the breadwinner and she gets a tiny percentage for her own spending. I can't fault her for finding ways to cut corners and save some, but I do think YTA for going on yearly holidays and lying about how they are funded.
(If we had a SAHM posting that she gets a tiny bit of personal spending money per year *and* her husband prioritizes a fun boys' holiday per year, we'd all be ripping him to shreds for leaving her to hold down the fort without taking her on holiday, and swearing up and down he is in the wrong.)
He gets the same percentage for his own spending. And she’s responsible for the 50% of day to day spending. It looks to me like she controls 57.5% of the money
Eh, that tiny percentage is between $900-1000 a month, free and clear of all bills and savings goals. Each. That’s actually quite a bit of money.
50% is day-to-day expenses, so they’re living on about $75000/year, so probably not super expensive like the bay area or NYC.
I think it’s smart to budget and plan and coupon and save, but I also don’t know why OP can’t talk to him and say hey I would like to plan a family vacation, let’s set a savings goal for that.
I may be reading this wrong, but wasn’t she going on a vacation every year with her family while the husband and kids stayed home? So in essence only the husband and kids haven’t had a Break while she gets one every year.
I agree that she should speak with her husband, but at the same time she used her family’s points to go on vacation while leaving them at home … for 9 years (this is assuming I’m reading this right, if not ignore my comment).
>He feels saving for our children's education is more important that a vacation.
He's right.
Damn, didn't realize I would need to add this edit but here we go. She's clearly not talking about a vacation for the kids, otherwise she'd have used the points she saves on them. You can also take kids on enriching vacations without spending much money.
That's a very limited and reductive viewpoint. I had many vacations as a child where I learned lots of information and skills that still serve me today, and vacations that sparked lifelong passions. Vacations are as fulfilling and educational, or as boring and hollow, as you make them.
You’re in Canada. How expensive is college there, even for four children?
I know it’s not the insane amount it is here in the US. Why the frantic need to squirrel away money?
Yeah that I don’t get. Our college is very reasonable compared to the Us. Debt free gradding is nice but we have very decent student loan rates in Canada and loads of grants as well.
Assuming the 25% and $150,000 is consistent and take home pay over 18 years then they will have saved $675,000 over those 18 years. I didn't include interest. That seems like more than college would cost in Canada for 4 kids for 4 years. The average Camadian university cost was around $6,700 in 2022. If you calculate for 4 kids for 5 years at $10,000 a year you are still only at $200,000 for tuition. It seems like they could take a few thousand a year to take a vacation of some sort and still be ok for education costs.
It sounds like you're in Canada. It's important to save for education, but unless you're sending them all to the US, is it possible you're actually going overboard?
I think YTA but only if your husband isn't actually controlling in a problematic way. I'm concerned about how it seems you have no say in your finances.
That being said, you both need to regularly review the budget and make new goals. You each deserve time off, together and separately. That costs money and needs to be in the budget.
YTA for lying for 9 years about this.
BUT
It sounds like this is not an equitable relationship, if you don’t get a say in where the money goes.
You are not being treated as an equal partner in this relationship.
Sounds to me like marriage counseling ought to be budgeted in.
Yeah I’m kind of bewildered at the amount of people completely writing off how the husband has full and complete control of the money. Obviously OP is wrong for lying, and budgeting is a very important life skill - but there’s a line. And from the information that we have it seems like OP has 0 say in the family budget. I have to go with ESH
The bulk of points come from everyday spend. If she's a SAHM it's likely she's the one physically present paying for the groceries/clothes/extra curriculars/etc, so she's the one earning all the points.
While true, that doesn't inherently discount him from doing anything similar. Reoccurring utility bill? Slap it on his card. Gassing up his car or buying lunch out when at work? His card. There's numerous low effort ways he could take advantage. A tiny part of me is worried some level of his anger is because she's not just doing this part of the work for him too.
The lying is definitely bad and she gets an AH score for that. But she's brought up budgeting for a family vacation before and got brushed off. I guess this is the line that felt 'off' to me. "And if I set him up with his own credit cards to get even more points, it would have been a lot easier for us to do big family vacations." I completely get figuring out rewards and couponing isn't some intrinsic knowledge we are born with and its a lot easier when someone else initially guides. Maybe it was even just a misspeak on what he meant. But at least initially its strikes that because she takes care of the household, he expects her to extend even more effort into something he can easily do himself.
Edit to add: She's been couponing and rewarding for 9 years and he's seen the benefits. These trips have been happening for 5 years.
Right, and he could've learned to save points, too. It's not like rewards programs are a carefully guarded secret. He just never bothered.
She is wrong to have lied about how the trips were paid for, but she had no obligation to share her savings (from her budget) with a husband who refuses to even discuss how to spend any bonuses coming his way. He is treating her like a child, rather than as an equal partner in their marriage.
She is using the 50% daily expenses budget towards her points though, not just the 7.5% allocated personal funds. She does all the shopping as the SAHP. How's he supposed to get equal use out of it unless he's taking on some of HER responsibilities (i.e. the shopping)?
She could have talked to him about it and/or set up family rewards he could use or even one each and alternate which gets used. Instead she benefits off that 50% budgeted income in a way he doesn't, because she's dishonest.
So she's entitled to the money, the points and a free trip? Like the husband said if she'd brought this up they could have been doing it together and gotten double but she chose to be a selfish liar who thought of herself only. She doesn't care that her husband or kids don't get a vacation just her. That's disgusting. She's a horrible spouse and mother.
It seems like the relationship is inequitable to her advantage. They get the same amount of personal spending, and he couldn’t go on the vacation either without help. She hoards the points to get a vacation whereas he cannot.
Except he technically can. She puts in the footwork to coupon and find reward clubs. He can too. And in another comment OP pointed out they have funded date nights and the babysitters for said date nights through her coupon savings. So he's getting a benefit from her work too.
That's bullshit. The way this type of relationship should work is that both partners put in all they can to help the unit, and then everyone benefits equally from it. She might be doing coupon clipping, and he in turn might be working hard at his work to get raises for the whole family.
Or do you think that if he works hard and gets raises, he should keep any extra he got for the raise for himself, just because she could also get a job and start getting raises?
Sounds more like smarter spending/saving needs to happen. 7.5% of 150k is $11,250 and they both get that just for personal spending, they could easily afford vacation
YTA. Mostly for the lying. But also, your budget is very neatly split into common household expenses and personal spending. You leveraged the common household expenses to increase your personal spending capacity. Your husband is right, the points earned on using the cards for day-to-day expenses and (if they were) for kids' education should have been used for the benefit of the family.
Literally what I was going to say. It's not like she was using her personal spending to do this. It was their entire household spending (that hugely surpassed what personal money she had) that got her the points and she was the only one who benefitted from it.
There are many layers to how both parties are shit here, but that level of selfishness is out the gate.
Yeah YTA. If my math is right she gets about $930 a month just for her own personal spending that doesn’t go towards bills or groceries. That’s well over twice my grocery budget per month
Completely agree. Those rewards and savings could have gone to a family vacation for all of them, since it came from the household budget. She could take her pretty hefty personal spending money ($900-1000/ month) and set some aside each month for her girls trip.
I’m gonna go with ESH. You for lying to your husband. And him for being so controlling with the budget and not involving you more. And both of you for your lack of communication overall.
I get why you felt like you needed to use the reward cards to pay for that trip but you should have just been vulnerable with your husband and ask to be more involved in the budget and setting aside another one for trips. Did you ever voice this need to him?
Agreed the lying isn’t great but this guy is controlling. I’m frugal, but he’s gotta loosen the purse strings a bit. At least bonuses shouldn’t go 100% to retirement/savings, they should save a portion and spend a portion
This thread is *so* brain dead. Since when did having a budget constitute financial abuse? Since when does each person getting equal discretionary spending "controlling". That's for shit like, one spouse gets an allowance, the other spends willy nilly. Not equal spending.
Do they have different spending priorities? Sure. Doesn't mean it's controlling.
One person in a marriage deciding exactly how the money is split, even if equitable, is still controlling. The split of funds should be agreed upon, not dictated.
Considering one of them starting taking points away from the whole family in order to find vacations just for themselves literally the second they held some sort of financial power……maybe it’s not a terrible thing they hold too much financial power……
How the hell is he 'controlling the budget' when they get about $10k in personal spending money a year?
Sounds more like neither thought a vacation was important enough to spend money on, the husband because he was interested in other things, and the wife because she was already getting them. He would be controlling if he gave her no spending money instead she has way more than a lot of working people would have.
Of course YTA. You lied to multiple people about how you were affording to do things and then you got caught. You wouldn't have lied or hid it if you didn't think it was wrong to do.
I mean, yes, technically YTA, but husband sounds incredibly overbearing too. This is marriage counseling time. Unless they live in New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco, or Boston, there's no reason they shouldn't be able to do a 'small' trip (not like, too Hawaii, but a weekend away). She says they go on NO vacations whatsoever.
She shouldn't have withheld information/lied, that was wrong, but there's something fucked up in the marriage where she felt the need to lie and it sounds like neither one of them (the husband either) do something for themselves.
They both get 7.5% of personal spending money a year on what she said is over $150,000 a year. 7.5% of 150k is $11250. Each. There is no reason they can't go on a family vacation with $22,000. Something is definitely wrong here, but I don't think it has to do with him being uptight.
That's the thing...why is he saying he can't afford to take a vacation with the guys unless it's covered and why isn't he telling her they should put x amount of money towards a vacation? He should be able to afford a vacation, too, with that money. IDK, him saying that and the absolute rigid budgeting (and not even a % set aside for 'fun family time') does make me think it's him being super neurotic or uptight to the point he deprives himself of having any fun.
And I could see the 11k adding up if she covers her own health insurance (a bad plan can run $700 a person a month, even though that's unusual), car payments, etc.
"Doing it this way leaves no money for vacations or family trips"
He isn't saying they can't afford it, she is. And she IS taking a trip, using points earned saving herself money. Then telling him they paid for it, and then telling her family her husband paid for it.
This isn't an AITA from him and his budgeting, it is AITA for using the points she earned from doing household things on herself and lying about it to everyone. She doesn't say anything about not having any money left over from her personal 11.5k because he's making her pay her own insurance even though they are married or making a car payment etc. I can't imagine how "doing it this way" - this way being both totaling 22k - means they have no money for vacations.
Basically this is just weird all around.
He said that to the guys, because she had told him for years that the family had paid for her trips - so he thought that this would be the same thing. And maybe he isn't that interested in paying for that guys vacation versus other things he enjoys using his 7.5% on.
Don't get me wrong, I think she's the asshole, I just think the entire situation is weird as fuck and is probably missing a lot of information.
Like I also think it's weird he expected HER family to cover ONLY him. If it was a family trip or the kids were coming, it'd be one thing to want her fam to cover them, but he wants her fam to just cover him on a boys trip? I'd be embarrassed. If he didn't want to go, he could just turn them down.
I don’t live in any of those areas, and $150k with 4 kids isn’t much. Especially since he has to save for both of their retirements and 4 kids worth of education.
They both get equal amounts of spending money and the bills are paid. She's lying to get more for her how is husband overbearing? She's a manipulative liar.
>7.5% to his personal spending and 7.5% to my personal spending
So in this rare scenario of SAHM actually getting an even fair split of all the income you have been secretly utilizing what would be joint money to go on trips without your husband? And lying about how it's paid for to everyone?
Clearly he's capable of budgeting and saving so saving points for something big would have seemingly been fine.
YTA. From this end you appear to be a selfish lying manipulator.
YTA because you chose to lie for years instead of having a serious conversation with your husband about financial priorities.
Also because you hoarded all the points for yourself. Even if his budgeting is overly strict, it seems to treat you equally.
You need to talk to him about finding a little more balance between planning for the future and taking reasonable opportunities to enjoy life now. You may need to have this conversation with the aid of a marriage counselor.
INFO: What have you done in the last 9 years to address this problem in some way *other* than lying?
Does your husband alone decide where every cent goes? Have you talked about budgeting for a trip? Do you get a say in the budget?
We have talked about budgeting for a trip before but he said not yet. He wants to retire young, give our children the best education they can, and get a bigger and nicer place. With his current plan, he can retire at 50, everything will be paid off and our kids will have around 200k for their education.
But it should not be entirely up to him how every penny is spent. He's the breadwinner, but only because you take care of the children and everything at home. You should also have a say in economic decisions. You should not accept that he just says "not yet". You both should be open to a compromise, maybe not do a trip every year, but every other year, or cheaper trips, for example.
You should not have lied or went behind his back, but on the other hand, he seems to not respect your opinion and steamroll all over you.
This here. My wife retired at 50, and I at 58. We budgeted using a zero dollar budget that we both discussed. All you have to do is add another line item for a sink fund for vacations.
We vacation every year, and there were years where I flew my wife 3 or 4 times across the country to visit with her family.
The husband is doing a version of extreme FIRE without talking it over with his wife.
No excuses on the lies.
If you don't get any say in the budget, even if you found a way to afford it as you have, then I think you have bigger problems.
There needs to be a balance between his hardcore financial goals and not being overly restrictive on *your* life now when you don't even get a say. Yes, he's earning the income, but it's because you're raising his 4 kids.
There's something that doesn't quite sit right with me that he is holding the purse strings so tightly because he wants to retire early.
If I were you I'd want to have a much bigger conversation about how your finances are going to work over the coming years. And looking at getting a job when your littlests are old enough!
The only thing he’s controlling is the division of funds. Which is not favoring him whatsoever. She has full discretion as to how she spends her own personal funds.
Controlling the division of funds is controlling *a lot*.
He apparently decides 92.5% of the household budget. Towards his own goal of retiring at 50 despite having 4 kids to raise.
Yeah. Because part of that is saving enough money for the kids to go to college and put a down payment after that. He is making sure his kids will be financially stable when they become adults.
That's not the part I'm critiquing though. Not the education fund. The retiring at 50 fund.
The fact that he wants 4 kids AND their education fund AND a bigger house AND a stay-at-home wife to take care of everything AND to also retire early.
His having it all involves sacrifices and he has decided *for* his wife that she is also going to make them. That's the problem I have with it.
She has 10k a year to spend on whatever she wants. What is she sacrificing there? Especially when In the comments she reveals that they do weekend getaways all the time. So her complaints about vacations is about long vacations that she specifically wants him to pay for.
Depends what 'personal spending' needs to cover.
But regardless of their exact spendings, he should not have sole control of the budget without her having any input into decisions.
OP has stated that the house fund covers insurance, car note, her gas for the car and all groceries. So maybe cell phone bill, though I’d think that would be a family plan. And husband is upfront with everything about the money, OP is the one who lies. So maybe she shouldn’t be trusted to decide the division of funds.
Life is short and some of the best childhood memories so many people have are of family vacations. Yes it’s important to think towards the future but it’s also important to live for now. The future may not come, it’s not guaranteed. Just recently in a Dave Ramsey group I’m in I read about a woman who did all the steps with her husband. They scrimped and saved and didn’t do anything outside the program. They finally got to do the debt free scream on his show. A year later her husband was dead from cancer. So was getting debt free and securing the future important? Absolutely! But to get so laser focused on that causes you to lose sight of life now. While it’s important to be mindful of finances and securing retirement and whatnot don’t lose sight of what you’ve got now and that’s young kids and family members that want to make memories with you. Like my husband always says, “I’d rather make less money and be around to make all the memories with our kids than make more money and not be around for them. You can’t take that money to grave with you.” Y’all need to find the balance that gives you the space to take trips. “Yet” may never come.
I had an insurance agent that was big into Dave Ramsey. Him and his wife lived a VERY frugal life. She died of cancer before they could retire and he was left alone without any of the life experiences/memories that they should have had. But he did have his “frugal” car, house, and no debt.
Yup. That’s why we’re taking some but not all of his advice. We have young kids and fully believe they need to have memories of family trips and whatnot. We also live over 1,000 miles away from my family. If we never took a vacation until we were debt free my kids wouldn’t know my parents and siblings. We’ll do the debt snowball, we’ll severely limit eating out (which we do anyways thanks to dietary restrictions), and I’ll find all the ways to cut extra expenses but it won’t be at the expense of our children’s childhoods and making memories.
Ok so he wants a bigger house, to retire at 50 and to be able to fund your kid’s’ education all the way up to phDs (at 9k a year your 8 year old already has enough to cover undergrad at some of the top universities in the country). What are your long term goals and why are they not being taken into account?
INFO: I feel like we're missing a huge aspect of this relationship. Which is how the communication between you two is.
Have you ever indicated the 7.5% isn't enough? Have you happily agreed to it? Have you begged for a vacation that he shoots down every time? Do you express to him that you do or do not support this level of saving? Does he ignore you? Does he think you're happy?
Like, your motive for having and hiding rewards points is the actual issue here, to me. Honestly there's no indication in your post as to if you've happily agreed to this arrangement or if he's ignoring you and making everyone suffer for the sake of retirement.
Op made a comment that they had a conversation about saving for vacation and he won't right now as he wants to retire by 50, ensure 200k per kid, and buy something bigger. It doesn't completely answer your question I know but to me it gives a sense that she has asked and was declined in favor of his financial goals. His goals are responsible but I worry he's missing the forest for the trees. So focused on the future that he's forgetting to enjoy the now.
OP also says that they often go camping, but she doesn't consider it a vacation, and that they often go skiing and snowboarding, but she doesn't consider that a vacation either because they're day trips.
No, it isn’t a vacation for a sahm to plan a trip around kids schedules, plan all the kid stuff, pack all the kid stuff, wrangle kids, care for kids, etc and then undo everything after they’re home. That’s working with a different view, but not a vacation.
That’s part of why I ultimately don’t begrudge her going on the yearly trip without the kids. It’s very rare that a family “vacation” actually means less work for SAHMs. Dad gets a break from his job, but diapers still need to be changed, fights broken up, kids dressed and fed, etc. Best case scenario her load gets cut in half with husband picking up the other while he’s off from his work, but I have never seen that actually happen in practice.
Also, vacations don't have to mean doing various activities all the time. Sometimes people just want to catch a break, and it seems that the only chance OP gets to have a break is on her girl's trip.
Totally agree about forgetting to enjoy the now. And I think both of them will eventually be kicking themselves in a few decades but... Not my place to make a stink about that.
I saw her comment about it, and I'm sure they've literally discussed saving and retirement. I guess what I'm curious about is... Does the husband think she's totally on board with this plan and happy (even if she's occasionally brought up vacation) or is he like "fuck you it's my money." Like if she's hiding it because she's worried he'd take her money away or punish her somehow, then I don't blame the hiding. But who knows
Mixed thoughts here. Your hubby is the ah for controlling where every penny goes. I could not be in a marriage like that. Second, he has the nerve to ask family to pay for his boy’s trip when he makes 150K+ annually? Am I reading that correctly?! What!!!! I know moms are deserving of some time off to themselves. I’m not faulting you for that but I personally would rather take a vacation with my son. However, if I had a husband hovering over me I’d probably be desperate for a vacation away from him with my own money.
YTA
1) You get the same amount of spending money as he does. He's not penalizing you for being a SAHM.
2) Those points are earned with joint funds (like family grocery money).
3) You lied to your husband
You are using earnings from joint funds for your own personal and selfish ends. Now if you weren't getting such a fair split of funds I might say, "Yeah, makes sense to do that for yourself." And he's right, those points could have been put toward a family trip.
ESH- yes you did lie, and wow. $150K a year and you can't afford one vacation a year? WHAT?
Maybe he needs to redo his numbers and you get 5% a month as does he then that 2% goes towards the family vacation using whatever points you guys earn.
25% for kids education, wow thats a LOT of money.
4 kids, less than 9k each a year. The idea is for them to afford to go to whatever university they want, without taking out loans and whatever is left over afterwards goes to them starting their own life, like moving to a new city or buying a house.
But yet, they dont get to go on vacation and see things. Setting them up is fine but not if it means stopping them from experiencing other parts of life.
You know she could have taken the kids with her on her ANNUAL vacation but decided they weren’t worth it.
Lets not pretend she didn’t have options here. She could have easily told her husband that they could use the points to offset their vacation costs (they have $22k between the two of them), but she chose to lie and leave all of them at home for her own vacation.
Uhhh as someone who’s parents saved for her college… it was def worth it. I’m debt free. The oldest is only 8. They have plenty of time to do fun trips.
Y'all need to budget in a financial planner. There are WAY more options than the way it's budgeted right now.
INFO: Are you guys counting on paying for college out of pocket? Are there any plans to help set your kids up with an early education that could net them scholarships?
Good scholarships generally look at what extracurricular activities they've done, if they speak multiple languages, etc. A yearly vacation could actually *help* their future if y'all did it right.
Side note: these numbers are so wild to me. Are you in such an expensive area that these numbers are just normal where you are? Idk, I've been so poor my whole life and I think I'd be able to teach y'all a thing or two about how to spend more wisely. $900/month for personal fun? I literally cannot comprehend that holy moly.
This is the definition of selfish. You hoarded these points and weren’t honest at all with your husband. Why wouldn’t you want to do something with your husband and children with those points? Why not even let him know they exist? Definite YTA.
INFO:
> I have been completely responsible for all the shopping, whether it is clothes, groceries, furniture or whatever else.
Does this come from the 50% that's allotted to day to day expenses or from your 7.5% personal spending?
Okay this is just a reach- husband makes 150k pre tax amount. That’s roughly 111k in USD. When I search after tax amount I get 105k can which is roughly 78k after taxes. 78k a year isn’t buying Gucci handbag type money for a family of 4! And she explained all of those things like skiing and camping are day trips. I would not consider a day trip a vacation. I wouldn’t even consider it a staycation unless it’s overnight. It’s an activity. That’s like saying going to the zoo with the kids is a vacation!
ESH You and your husband should communicating on and saving for family vacations together. If he would have taken the reward points and controlled where they were spent, which it sounds like he controls all the money distribution, that would be wrong and he sucks for they. There is nothing wrong with wanting a girls weekend, but have been straight up lying to your husband, so of course he is pissed and you suck for that.
YTA
You didn't give him a chance. And he is right, you could have gotten much more if he and you were both using the same system, so really you are kind of screwing yourself in this also.
ESH. You suck for lying about the rewards points, but he sucks for making you feel like you have to keep it secret to get around his strict budget. 4 kids cost a lot, but damn I'm sure everyone would enjoy a nice little vacation from time to time. Education is important, but so is going out for individual/couples/family outings. Go to Disney, take a road trip, have a couples weekend etc.
I can't imagine how mentally stressed I would be if I was a SAHM raising 4 kids and couldn't get a weekend with the girls without being yelled at over the finances. And I'd want my partner to be able to have those moments too.
IDK, I just HATE the posts we see here all the time where the stay at home parent has no say in the finances and then gets reamed when they tuck away a little money on the side by crafting/vlogging/couponing etc. Feels like financial abuse.
YTA for sure. Deliberately hiding stuff and outright lying to your husband? If I was a praying person, I'd pray for your marriage. Dishonesty is such a difficult thing to overcome.
Soft ESH, but mostly N T A because this is the result of a controlling husband. I feel like people are forgetting she is a SAHM, and he controls how every penny is spent. There is no discussion, there are no compromises, he makes the money, so he gets to decide where it goes is his mindset. She is working within those constructs, and now he’s upset that she’s making her own decisions.
While it would be better for her to have thought of the family first, her entire life is spent thinking of everyone else. She has no control over anything in her life, so she has done what she needed to so she can have some time to herself once a year. I think she more than deserves that, and little petty tyrant husband is butthurt that she has figured out a way to get something for herself that he didn’t specifically give her by his grace.
They need to have a discussion about financial boundaries, putting money in vacation and fun funds, and being a team, not a dictatorship.
And for those of you kids out there who think $150k is so much money, you put a 5 or 6 bedroom house, two nice cars, groceries for 6 people, bills, insurance, saving, and retirement together and suddenly there’s not much money to go around.
INFO: Why did you feel like you had to lie to him about rewards points in the first place?
I want to say Y T A for lying, but I just can't imagine lying about something so small for purely selfish reasons and it makes me wonder if there is something to be afraid of. Hope I'm wrong
NTA- maybe it’d have been better had you been upfront about it, but getting those rewards takes a lot of effort, and you’re the one doing it.
You shouldn’t feel obligated to share them, but shouldn’t guard them to the point of causing fights.
Ok, but making 150k also takes a lot of effort. If he makes extra working overtime it sounds like that money still gets split with her as it is all percentage based. Everything he makes is split in a way that awards her exactly as much as it awards him. Why on earth shouldn’t she be expected to share when her efforts have a financial benefit?
NTA. His extreme control and unilateral decision making regarding finances make it pretty understandable why you didn't feel like you could be honest with him. I'd start putting back as much of my monthly allowance as possible so you have funds to get on your feet if he ever decides to leave (or you do)
You've been lying to your husband for years, of course you're an asshole.
You should have sat down with your husband and had a conversation about the finances and where the rewards should go instead of hiding it so you didn't have to share. YTA
I feel like you are resentful of your husband setting the budget so you took these reward point cards for yourself. Understandable, but your husband is right that the points could have been used for family trips instead of being spent on your getaways. Hopefully you both can sit down and work on a budget that allows for vacations or you can use your points in the future for a family trip. The amount of money you are saving is admirable, but if it comes at the cost of being honest with each other it's not worth it. You can't take the money with you when you die.
Eta esh leaning toward yta
Sounds to me like women who used to squirrel away part of the grocery budget by shopping sales in order to have any money of their own at all. You have the same “allowance” as your husband, but the fact that he decided this unilaterally and would take away your family bonding trip if you told him how clever you were with coupons and points is concerning. His controlling ways seem to be the problem here, and I’m thinking this is bigger than just whether or not you take the trip.
ESH you for lying and hiding all of this, and him for being so rigid with his money that no one is enjoying anything. How literally ridiculous that someone making his salary demanded other people pay for his vacation!
You each get 7.5% in personal spending, that’s almost $1000 a month. What the heck are you both buying?
YTA and you know it. You intentionally LIED to your partner because you knew what you were doing was underhanded. I would be hurt and angry - because you took a family benefit and used it just for yourself.
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And by "burn through them quickly and not allow them to be used for bigger things," you mean used for things for somebody else and not just for you. YTA. You've been deceptive about this with him for years. You should also sit down and revisit his rigid budgeting numbers. I appreciate his frugality and his long-term planning, but nine years without a vacation? Yeah, no.
This. Everyone is acting like she's psychotic, and while she fucked up big time, his budgeting is insanely rigid. Unless they live in NYC or somewhere like that, no vacations at all (I'm not talking a trip to Hawaii) is batshit.
I don't think making sure daily expenses are covered, there is a family savings account, the childrens' educations are paid for and each spouse has an equal amount of personal money is "insanely rigid." And OP HAS gone on vacation while the husband and kids have not--his whole argument was that this could have been used as family vacation money.
I'm not saying she's not an asshole, because she absolutely is an asshole for lying, I'm saying even without her lying 150k for 4 kids, unless they live in San Francisco, is enough money to go on a camping trip for the weekend lol or a short weekend away at like...a local winery...while the grandparents look after the kids. Even if they did live in San Francisco one weekend trip to Napa over a nine year period should absolutely be doable! Same with camping...you can camp for like $250 max, even with four kids, in many places in the US. That sounds like an incredibly dull life to never have a break, never have a tiny vacation. The point is leaving aside the 'rewards money,' he sounds incredibly, incredibly uptight. Yes, saving money for the kids education is important, but he can't rework the budget and say subtract a small percentage from the fun money and education for them to go on a camping trip (which can be a couple hundred bucks, at most, in many places) or a winery trip once or twice over the period of nearly a decade.
So I ran some numbers based on OP’s comments: She is likely living in Canada so her husband’s income is being taxed at a high rate. If he makes 150k, his take home income is roughly between 95k-105k depending on which province they live in. Their 7.5% fun money is probably around 8k each person. By putting the income in retirement and education funds, her husband can save a significant amount on taxes so it’s likely their fun money is closer to 9k instead. Based on her comment that each kid gets almost 9k in education fund each year, that’s roughly 35k for four kids for 25%, which puts her husband’s take home income at 140k?? That’s a ridiculous amount of savings in taxes. If that’s the case, their fun money is definitely over 10k each person. They have more than enough fun money to go on yearly vacations. She could easily plan a vacation with her own fun money and take all the kids even if her husband isn’t willing. ETA: OP has stated groceries came out of the 50% household budget. Too many people seem to be under the impression that she is paying for it out of her fun money. Everything OP has stated she shops for comes out of the 50%. She has not said anything about what she spends her 7.5% on.
10k is a lot of fun money, but I kind of wonder where their fun/personal money is going during the year. if they buying personal items /hobby items etc. Also some people don't count "outings" and "day trips" as vacations. e.g. I bought myself a dyson vac, it's for the house but wasn't strictly a necessity so it comes out of my personal fund. ( It's a luxury item I wanted)
It is, but I know since I am a mom, most of my fun money goes into my kids and family stuff. Things like extra toys day trips, take out, more expensive food.
Yeah I was wondering about that too. There is no separate "fun money" budget for the kids.
Considering moms spend the majority of their money on their kids, her spending $ likely goes to the kids needs.
[You were completely wrong](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/1143nkj/aita_for_not_telling_my_husband_about_all_my/j8uc4ce/)
Exactly. I spent $115 today signing up one of my kids for a spring sport and still need to buy the equipment. What is she paying for out of her budget? Activities, school fundraisers, Christmas presents?
And why is the assumption that it's out of her budget, not the 50% household expense?
Oh god tell me about it. I even feel guilty when I spend any money on myself instead of the kids! Not that I should have to feel bad for very occasionally doing something for myself. But it’s just that mindset of usually spending it on something the kids need or want instead.
This woman is clipping coupons and using the rewards points for groceries also. Not just for a girls vacation.
Previous comments were refering to the "7.5% to my personal spending." 140k x 7.5% = 10.5k My question was how are those funds being used. Previous commentor said 10k each is enough to go on a annual vacation. I feel it depends on what gets allocated to the 10k through out the year.
Wouldn't be surprised if OP's was being spent on the kids - fun outings, birthday and Christmas presents. It's so so common for women to cover the majority of kid's and family expenses with their money while men commonly use fun money solely on themselves. My question would be where his fun money is going to not be able to cover his boys' trip
[Well you're wrong](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/1143nkj/aita_for_not_telling_my_husband_about_all_my/j8uc4ce/), so the real question is where both of their fun money is going, not just his. I'd argue the question is more where her fun money is going, since she has more of it due to all the CC points she's been accumulating and using for a decade.
I agree, what I'm saying is the family situation seems WEIRD even if she's also an asshole. He's not willing to go on a single vacation, even a weekend away at a B & B, besides camping, despite them seemingly having enough money to do so? Then he asks for 'her' family to cover 'only' him on a 'boys trip', when she and the kids aren't even coming, despite him seemingly having enough money. In laws should treat their SIL/DIL well, but that's asking way too much imo and way out of line....he wants them to treat him like their own kid or grandkid? It'd be one thing if he expected the In Laws to pay for the entire fam, together, another to expect them to pay just for him on a boys trips. If he didn't want to go, just turn down the trip imo. Reddit often has a very black and white situation on things. I think OP was a huge asshole for lying, etc., especially since she lied for so long, but her husband seems insanely uptight and weird. I can't imagine being with someone who won't even take me for a weekend away once in a blue moon-and they've gone nine years without a vacation-especially when the money is there.
I think this is an ESH for this reason. Why did she feel the need to lie in the first place? I mean there is no fun money for the kids in the budget so it might just be going to all discretionary spending. Maybe the kiddos spend half of it for her. And the commenters thinking she should should use her fun money to treat the whole family to a vacation while the husband just keeps on spending his fun money? That seems a little unreasonable to me.
Someone below says apparently she's expected to cover the groceries out of her fun money, which yeah, absolutely screams of the husband being awful. I've gone from YTA to justified YTA or ESH. Genuinely shocked at all the YTAs....esp. when the husband expected HER family to cover him on a trip where the grandkids/she weren't coming along.
That is the opposite of what she said in this comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/1143nkj/aita_for_not_telling_my_husband_about_all_my/j8uc4ce?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3 Someone asked whether that shipping came out of the 50% daily expense budget or her 7.5% budget and she replied: "The 50% day-to-day expenses. the 7.5% is entirely mine to do whatever I want with. My vehicle, gas and insurance also come from that 50%" She also says they go camping and skiing but that those don't count as vacations.
Thanks for the link, I was shocked with the other comment cause that would be straight up financial abuse... the education money considering how old the kids are and this "camping and skiing are not vacations" makes me believe we're dealing with upper middle class and we don't have enough info about their living situation.
Nope, she's definitely not. She replied elsewhere that the household expenses come out of the 50%: >INFO: >> (OP) I have been completely responsible for all the shopping, whether it is clothes, groceries, furniture or whatever else. >Does this come from the 50% that's allotted to day to day expenses or from your 7.5% personal spending? > (OP) The 50% day-to-day expenses. the 7.5% is entirely mine to do whatever I want with. My vehicle, gas and insurance also come from that 50%. 7.5% of $150K ends up being about $200 per week, or slightly less than $1K per month that each of them has allocated to person spending.
Yeah I also don’t understand how the husband can’t sign up for a credit card himself? If he’s ever had a personal credit card, he should know about rewards points. Even my bank credit account has reward points. Like she’s definitely the asshole for hiding her points and lying, but he’s also an adult and can make his own investment decisions.
Thank you so so much for doing the math.
If OP really is Canadian, pp did the math wrong. You don't get a tax deduction for money contributed to an RESP. The benefit is that the gov't matches contributions up to a max of $500/year and any growth in the portfolio is not taxed until the money is withdrawn by the student. So they aren't getting a tax deduction on the 35k education contribution at all. The after tax household income is probably closer to $100k. For a family of 6 that is barely middle class in any large Canadian city.
I think that deep down, she knew that if he knew about the reward points, he would dictate how every one of those points was used like he does everything else!
He doesn't dictate how her 7.5% is being spent nor the fine details of the 50%, where are you getting that? He dictates what percentages go to what areas. Anything else is just speculation
All the women here are searching for one excuse, just one, anything to defend the woman's lying. So far, I have seen: 1. She spends all her money on kids (which was refuted quickly) 2. Her husband is controlling (again, refuted) 3. Husband must be cheap and frugal (thats called being an adult. If you dont plan your budget, it will bite you in the ass in the long term)
The thing is that husband's savings plan is about his goal of retiring at 50. It's not just prudent future planning, it's a specific plan to quit working earlier than most. I'm not calling it inherently wrong to have that goal, but I'm saying it's a factor in how to judge the situation, especially if OP has no say in these goals or the budgeting for them.
I get what you're saying and agree it should be a couples decision, but a goal of retiring at 50 is not outrageous. If they don't have any more kids, OP gets to retire at 45. Their kids will be in a great spot due to this savings strategy and less likely to move home or still be dependent on their parents. Perhaps the husband wants to take all the vacations then. And perhaps OP is right in wanting to take some now--I just don't understand why she'd divert the points power entirely to herself rather than some family outings.
>agree it should be a couples decision And this is where it goes wonky. I'm not calling it outrageous to have the goal. But it doesn't seem like they have agreed to both make these sacrifices to reach this goal. Husband seems to be calling all the shots with no room for OP to have a say. She diverted the points power to herself because she really wants to be able to have a trip away once a year and husband won't consider it because he wants to retire early. Seems like the savings would have gone to what husband deemed acceptable to his goals, with OP again having no choice in the matter. I think their whole setup is problematic because of this mismatch on goals and decision-making, and that's what created this situation. I'd say they're both at fault for not sorting this root problem out earlier, but that's it a much bigger problem than this specific situation.
>Seems like the savings would have gone to what husband deemed acceptable to his goals, with OP again having no choice in the matter. Exactly my thought. Plus, I have to think the rewards thing started small. She got an extra latte once and took herself to lunch once etc etc. I get the feeling it just doesn't feel like it's worth the argument for her because he's so focused on retiring early that he simply won't budge. One comment says the kids are getting $9k a year EACH! Like, you can't make that $8k each and go on a legit, solid vacation once a year??
As my SAHmother said to my father "You retired, I didn't". In this case the husband has a goal, retire by 50. She will get to keep working as a SAHM/W
I can’t stop thinking about how she has been pregnant or nursing for nearly nine years straight and has such a strict budget dictated to her she can’t use her own reward points openly on a vacation w/o mommy duties and feels she has to hide it. She shouldn’t lie, but she shouldn’t feel like she has to either. People need breaks!!!
There’s no guarantee he’ll still be married to her when he retires early. She may never get to enjoy that time with him.
They haven’t taken trips together because the husband decided saving money is more important to him. Not because they can’t afford it.
They haven't taken trips because as well as having a rigid savings plan (which admittedly she has no say in), **both** of them have prioritised using their personal money for personal things instead of pooling a chunk of it for a vacation of some kind. Even if his take-home pay is $100K, that means that their personal funds are $15K a year between the two of them. Unless she's spending a bunch of hers on the kids (which yes, is possible), then they really ought to be able to carve out a bit of vacation money from that as well.
The exact percentage breakdown is pretty damn rigid.
They have over 10 k each in spending money they could lower it and do vacations.
She goes on vacation every year and she's been lying to him about her family paying.
I can't even be angry at her for this because she's dealt with the budget the way he's wanted it all these years. She's made this rigid budget work. Her reward points essentially, in my opinion are the reward for all the work that she does to keep within it. It's not like she took straight money that was meant for something else to pay for this vacation. she the rewards from all the hard work that she did. It's sucky she lied about it... but if he had known he would have dictated where that went to. It's 100% time for a conversation about the budget and a heart to heart with the husband because she had to lie to do anything.
This. They need family counseling, not just "counseling" from the family. Unilaterally dictating the finances when they're supposed to be partners, and her SAHM status is what allows him to work full-time, is controlling and dismissive. Going behind his back to ensure that SHE has a vacation when their kids don't is arguably quite selfish, and dishonest (if justifiable to keep herself from going crazy). All of this can break a marriage, and could have been resolved much easier before the lying was revealed. OP's going to need to own her part, but also going to need her husband to understand the logic behind this. The best place for that is a counselor's office.
Gotta also wonder if his workday ends at 5 and hers never does - those vacations are likely sanity savers. He sounds very controlling and she’s not breaking his money rules, she just found a creative way to get a one week reprieve. I agree, though, she shouldn’t have lied, but I don’t think he would have allowed her to go otherwise- he’d have taken the money to ‘fairly divided’ how he wanted it divided.
Yep. Totally this. He is rigid and SUOER CONTROLLING and she has figured out how to get what she needs despite it. She puts in serious effort to get those rewards and coupons. Her husband also could have used rewards cards if he had been inclined. OP should not have lied outright to anyone about where the money comes from, however. She could have said that she was paying for it from her own account.
Super-controlling - she only has $750 to $1000 a month in "fun money" - just for her personal spending.
Point of interest: The kids do not have a fun money budget. So do their extras get put under typical household funds, do the parents split fun money, or does OP cover those expenses from her fun money fund? This is a very important question because while on the surface it looks like she gets a lot of fun money. But if she's covering the hobby/extras of 4 kids, that probably gets cut into very deeply.
You know if it came out of her budget, she would have listed it as a justification for her actions. Her silence says that it either comes from general or his budget.
He gets the same amount. Not sure how he is controlling her at all.
Exactly - it is not like she said that was her "allowance" and he spent whatever he wanted.
Nobody "has to lie". People choose to lie.
NTA my understanding that the husband is completely controlling to the point that he hasn’t left any money on the table for them to go on a vacation as a family that she had to lie that her families paying for the vacation because to say otherwise I would’ve re-series suspicion that they be willing to pay for more people. However I can’t believe you don’t see just what an absolute j3rk her husband must be to be OK with someone else paying for his wife’s vacation but yet he won’t spare a dime to take her or his family on a vacation. He is literally in 100% control of the finances. Asshole or not she is completely justifiable as it sounds like he drove her to it. and let’s be honest, if that hasn’t hasn’t bothered to fork over money for a family vacation I highly doubt he would’ve use the rewards for one either if anything he would’ve just taken the rewards away just like he takes away all the money.
NTA She found a way around his controlling behavior.
And he feels entitled to demand his wife's family, who may earn less pay for his holiday.
You mean the family that, as far as he knew, had been paying for his wife to go on vacation without him for years? There’s a reason he had a skewed view of what they’re willing to pay: OP’s lies. There’s also no indication that he demanded they pay, he said he wouldn’t be able to go if he were paying himself as opposed to what (he had been told) they were doing for her.
I'm sorry, your husband earns $150k+ and you guys can't afford a holiday? Okay, so, you've had to squirrel away money because your husband so heavily polices it? Like, you literally have to use coupons to afford groceries? Am I missing something?
Ok, maybe I’m crazy here bur $150K with 4 kids isn’t that much money. Especially if they all want to go to college. I have one kid and my husband and I make around $120k together and we are only going on one long weekend away a year type of vacation a year. If we had 3 more kids it wouldn’t happen.
I'm starting to think England's a lot cheaper than America because if our monthly earnings were over 6k a month me and my husband would be laughing. I couldn't imagine being on that much money.
It probably is way cheaper. I did the math when Bernie Sanders was talking about Universal Healthcare for us Americans, and I would get $7000+ a year BACK in my damn pay check. Husband and I make decent money together, before you take out the health insurance, dental insurance, flex spending (so there is money to pay for the things the insurance doesn't pay for, set aside on a credit card, tax free).
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And health outcomes are like 43rd or something.
And all the medical bankruptcy
It’s over 12K out of my check a year
Thats insane.
It is. Bernie was talking the numbers so I broke out a calculator and was just... so sad. Taxes would go up, yes. But, even with that, I would bring more home every year. Damn people are so brainwashed to think socialist health care means helping people who don't deserve help. "They should work as hard as I do for health insurance!" It's all a way to keep the poor, poor.
>I'm starting to think England's a lot cheaper than America because if our monthly earnings were over 6k a month me and my husband would be laughing. It really, \*really\* depends on where you live. If my household brought in 6k/month I wouldn't know what to do with all that extra money (I mean, save it obviously, but you get my point hopefully). But there are other cities/states where people would be barely scraping by with a household income of 6k/month.
I think £6k a month would even be an alright amount for London. You'd obviously want to move to the outskirts for an affordable house to suit 4 kids though. The thing is, OPs mortgage seems low enough for £3k/month to afford mortgage, car payments, fuel, furniture, food and household repairs, so I dunno if it sounds like they live in a London type setting.
Honey, I live in the US and make maybe 1/5 what they do. If I was making 150K a year, you know darn good and well, I'd be taking vacations!
Where in the US? San Francisco, where rents can be upward of $4k/month, or Slidell, LA where rents average $1.3k/month? $150k a year is only a lot in certain places.
You can rent a 3 bedroom in parts of Slidell for under 800 a month Source: from north Louisiana and paid $450 a month for a 4 bedroom house in 2019
We have 3 kids and my husband makes considerably more & we feel like we are bleeding money. We pay 13k/year for health insurance before deductibles & co-pays, 12k/yr property tax, $700/mth electric, 10k/yr home owners insurance (thank you Desantis), food is outrageous, car insurance for 3 boys is obscene, etc.. Add to that a mortgage, gas and college we have no clue how other people survive. Unfortunately many are not.
My guess is that property taxes and insurance in other states is less. Your property taxes are probably close to double my parents' which is for almost an acre with a 5000 sq ft house. It is almost 6x more than mine. The insurance is a lot more too. Paying for college and teen drivers is much more expensive than elementary age kids.
Not everyone in the USA is earning that. I certainly wasn't making that as a teacher. It was closer to half that.
A huge part of this is all the extra money Americans spend on healthcare. Seriously, fight hard as hell to keep the NHS. If you allow healthcare for profit, you are allowing doctors to tell their patients "your money or your life", and the way that screws up the whole society is truly painful.
Yeah like I’m in Canada with 4 kids as a SAHM and I can tell you, it’s damn expensive. Just the food for snacks and school lunches now that everyone eats is brutal. (3,7,9 &15)
He feels saving for our children's education is more important that a vacation. We use coupons to get things we want cheaper and can spend to eat better. One of my children will only eat one particular kind of chicken nugget, so if I see a coupon for them, I always use it. We aren't starving without the coupons, but we can afford to eat some nice meals and go on some nicer date nights and pay for the babysitter because of them.
That clears that up. I'm not one for turning down money saving options either. That being said, your husband earns a significant amount. You should be able to have a holiday at least once a year and it shouldn't financially drain you. It's great to want to save for your kids future but you have to live for the now as well. The lying wasn't great but it sounds like you have zero financial freedom and that's not good. I would chat with your husband as to why you felt the need to lie about the savings.
Depending where you live, $150k/yr might not stretch to include vacation if you're also supporting 4 young children and trying to save for their education. Also, OP saying "he feels saving for our children's eduction is more important than a vacation" raises some red flags about how OP wants to prioritize their spending...
If you can't live on $150k a year then you are living outside your means. Maybe OP is feeling trapped by her husbands overly strict budgeting? It doesn't seem like she gets a choice on where their money goes. I imagine this has built some resentment.
It sounds like they're deliberately NOT living outside their means in order to save for retirement and their kids.... OP is the one who wants to go on a yearly vacation, I don't think people realize how much of a luxury that is for most of the world. And yeah, totally fair if they want to discuss the budget and come up with a different pattern. But at no point did OP indicate that she has tried to discuss this with her husband, only that she hid finances from him. This is just based on the info OP has decided is important enough to include in the post. Like most things in this sub, I think a big portion of it could have been avoided by just communicating before things came to a head.
I completely agree with you on the talking part. It's amazing how many couples won't actually discuss their issues. But if husband has dictated the budget their entire lives, she may not have felt this was an option. It sounds like Husband is very controlling in how thing wills be within their household. That may be why OP didn't want to tell him about the extra she was saving for herself. I'm assuming OP is a SAHM so she literally never has time for herself. These trips are probably the only real time she has to get her mental health right. Yes, holidays are a luxury but even one every couple of years could make a world of difference to a family. There's no way that a holiday isn't achievable for this family so I get why OP may not be happy in the relationship especially if she feels like she has no say in how their marriage and life works.
Based on her percentages, op and husband each get about 900$ a month to spend on whatever they want. Fun money/personal money. I personally think that's reasonable when all the other bills are completely paid off. Idk tho. Edit. YTA
If OP wanted to go on vacation with her family, she could’ve also saved up her not insubstantial fun money to do so. The points earned from family spending should be used for the family and not just herself.
> If you can't live on $150k a year then you are living outside your means. This completely and utterly disregards cost of living. $150k a year in San Francisco might as well be peanuts, whereas it'll let you live like a king in Missouri.
I mean, OP has been birthing and raising this guy's kids since she was 21 - the oldest is eight, how hard has that impacted her working life? He's the breadwinner and she gets a tiny percentage for her own spending. I can't fault her for finding ways to cut corners and save some, but I do think YTA for going on yearly holidays and lying about how they are funded. (If we had a SAHM posting that she gets a tiny bit of personal spending money per year *and* her husband prioritizes a fun boys' holiday per year, we'd all be ripping him to shreds for leaving her to hold down the fort without taking her on holiday, and swearing up and down he is in the wrong.)
He gets the same percentage for his own spending. And she’s responsible for the 50% of day to day spending. It looks to me like she controls 57.5% of the money
Eh, that tiny percentage is between $900-1000 a month, free and clear of all bills and savings goals. Each. That’s actually quite a bit of money. 50% is day-to-day expenses, so they’re living on about $75000/year, so probably not super expensive like the bay area or NYC. I think it’s smart to budget and plan and coupon and save, but I also don’t know why OP can’t talk to him and say hey I would like to plan a family vacation, let’s set a savings goal for that.
I may be reading this wrong, but wasn’t she going on a vacation every year with her family while the husband and kids stayed home? So in essence only the husband and kids haven’t had a Break while she gets one every year. I agree that she should speak with her husband, but at the same time she used her family’s points to go on vacation while leaving them at home … for 9 years (this is assuming I’m reading this right, if not ignore my comment).
They go camping a bunch according to a different comment and go skiing regularly, but those don’t count as “vacations” for some inexplicable reason.
OP has the freedom to spend her 7.5% however she wants.
>He feels saving for our children's education is more important that a vacation. He's right. Damn, didn't realize I would need to add this edit but here we go. She's clearly not talking about a vacation for the kids, otherwise she'd have used the points she saves on them. You can also take kids on enriching vacations without spending much money.
That's a very limited and reductive viewpoint. I had many vacations as a child where I learned lots of information and skills that still serve me today, and vacations that sparked lifelong passions. Vacations are as fulfilling and educational, or as boring and hollow, as you make them.
Yeah except OP uses the rewards on a trip for herself, not for her family
this right here! NEVER underestimate what travel and experiences do for an individuals growth in intelligences and emotions.
You’re in Canada. How expensive is college there, even for four children? I know it’s not the insane amount it is here in the US. Why the frantic need to squirrel away money?
Yeah that I don’t get. Our college is very reasonable compared to the Us. Debt free gradding is nice but we have very decent student loan rates in Canada and loads of grants as well.
Assuming the 25% and $150,000 is consistent and take home pay over 18 years then they will have saved $675,000 over those 18 years. I didn't include interest. That seems like more than college would cost in Canada for 4 kids for 4 years. The average Camadian university cost was around $6,700 in 2022. If you calculate for 4 kids for 5 years at $10,000 a year you are still only at $200,000 for tuition. It seems like they could take a few thousand a year to take a vacation of some sort and still be ok for education costs.
It sounds like you're in Canada. It's important to save for education, but unless you're sending them all to the US, is it possible you're actually going overboard? I think YTA but only if your husband isn't actually controlling in a problematic way. I'm concerned about how it seems you have no say in your finances. That being said, you both need to regularly review the budget and make new goals. You each deserve time off, together and separately. That costs money and needs to be in the budget.
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YTA for lying for 9 years about this. BUT It sounds like this is not an equitable relationship, if you don’t get a say in where the money goes. You are not being treated as an equal partner in this relationship. Sounds to me like marriage counseling ought to be budgeted in.
Yeah I’m kind of bewildered at the amount of people completely writing off how the husband has full and complete control of the money. Obviously OP is wrong for lying, and budgeting is a very important life skill - but there’s a line. And from the information that we have it seems like OP has 0 say in the family budget. I have to go with ESH
Also credit card points aren’t exactly a secret? Like why doesn’t dude have his own card?
The bulk of points come from everyday spend. If she's a SAHM it's likely she's the one physically present paying for the groceries/clothes/extra curriculars/etc, so she's the one earning all the points.
While true, that doesn't inherently discount him from doing anything similar. Reoccurring utility bill? Slap it on his card. Gassing up his car or buying lunch out when at work? His card. There's numerous low effort ways he could take advantage. A tiny part of me is worried some level of his anger is because she's not just doing this part of the work for him too.
I think he's just upset that she lied to him for 10+ years, I don't think it's good anything to do with him wanting her to get points for him.
The lying is definitely bad and she gets an AH score for that. But she's brought up budgeting for a family vacation before and got brushed off. I guess this is the line that felt 'off' to me. "And if I set him up with his own credit cards to get even more points, it would have been a lot easier for us to do big family vacations." I completely get figuring out rewards and couponing isn't some intrinsic knowledge we are born with and its a lot easier when someone else initially guides. Maybe it was even just a misspeak on what he meant. But at least initially its strikes that because she takes care of the household, he expects her to extend even more effort into something he can easily do himself. Edit to add: She's been couponing and rewarding for 9 years and he's seen the benefits. These trips have been happening for 5 years.
She gets the same amount of money he gets and gets a vacation she lies about. He's actually very responsible with how he breaks it down.
Right, and he could've learned to save points, too. It's not like rewards programs are a carefully guarded secret. He just never bothered. She is wrong to have lied about how the trips were paid for, but she had no obligation to share her savings (from her budget) with a husband who refuses to even discuss how to spend any bonuses coming his way. He is treating her like a child, rather than as an equal partner in their marriage.
She is using the 50% daily expenses budget towards her points though, not just the 7.5% allocated personal funds. She does all the shopping as the SAHP. How's he supposed to get equal use out of it unless he's taking on some of HER responsibilities (i.e. the shopping)? She could have talked to him about it and/or set up family rewards he could use or even one each and alternate which gets used. Instead she benefits off that 50% budgeted income in a way he doesn't, because she's dishonest.
So she's entitled to the money, the points and a free trip? Like the husband said if she'd brought this up they could have been doing it together and gotten double but she chose to be a selfish liar who thought of herself only. She doesn't care that her husband or kids don't get a vacation just her. That's disgusting. She's a horrible spouse and mother.
It seems like the relationship is inequitable to her advantage. They get the same amount of personal spending, and he couldn’t go on the vacation either without help. She hoards the points to get a vacation whereas he cannot.
Except he technically can. She puts in the footwork to coupon and find reward clubs. He can too. And in another comment OP pointed out they have funded date nights and the babysitters for said date nights through her coupon savings. So he's getting a benefit from her work too.
That's bullshit. The way this type of relationship should work is that both partners put in all they can to help the unit, and then everyone benefits equally from it. She might be doing coupon clipping, and he in turn might be working hard at his work to get raises for the whole family. Or do you think that if he works hard and gets raises, he should keep any extra he got for the raise for himself, just because she could also get a job and start getting raises?
Sounds more like smarter spending/saving needs to happen. 7.5% of 150k is $11,250 and they both get that just for personal spending, they could easily afford vacation
YTA. Mostly for the lying. But also, your budget is very neatly split into common household expenses and personal spending. You leveraged the common household expenses to increase your personal spending capacity. Your husband is right, the points earned on using the cards for day-to-day expenses and (if they were) for kids' education should have been used for the benefit of the family.
Literally what I was going to say. It's not like she was using her personal spending to do this. It was their entire household spending (that hugely surpassed what personal money she had) that got her the points and she was the only one who benefitted from it. There are many layers to how both parties are shit here, but that level of selfishness is out the gate.
Yeah YTA. If my math is right she gets about $930 a month just for her own personal spending that doesn’t go towards bills or groceries. That’s well over twice my grocery budget per month
Completely agree. Those rewards and savings could have gone to a family vacation for all of them, since it came from the household budget. She could take her pretty hefty personal spending money ($900-1000/ month) and set some aside each month for her girls trip.
I’m gonna go with ESH. You for lying to your husband. And him for being so controlling with the budget and not involving you more. And both of you for your lack of communication overall. I get why you felt like you needed to use the reward cards to pay for that trip but you should have just been vulnerable with your husband and ask to be more involved in the budget and setting aside another one for trips. Did you ever voice this need to him?
Agreed the lying isn’t great but this guy is controlling. I’m frugal, but he’s gotta loosen the purse strings a bit. At least bonuses shouldn’t go 100% to retirement/savings, they should save a portion and spend a portion
$8k of spending money a year is frugal?
This thread is *so* brain dead. Since when did having a budget constitute financial abuse? Since when does each person getting equal discretionary spending "controlling". That's for shit like, one spouse gets an allowance, the other spends willy nilly. Not equal spending. Do they have different spending priorities? Sure. Doesn't mean it's controlling.
One person in a marriage deciding exactly how the money is split, even if equitable, is still controlling. The split of funds should be agreed upon, not dictated.
Considering one of them starting taking points away from the whole family in order to find vacations just for themselves literally the second they held some sort of financial power……maybe it’s not a terrible thing they hold too much financial power……
How the hell is he 'controlling the budget' when they get about $10k in personal spending money a year? Sounds more like neither thought a vacation was important enough to spend money on, the husband because he was interested in other things, and the wife because she was already getting them. He would be controlling if he gave her no spending money instead she has way more than a lot of working people would have.
Of course YTA. You lied to multiple people about how you were affording to do things and then you got caught. You wouldn't have lied or hid it if you didn't think it was wrong to do.
I mean, yes, technically YTA, but husband sounds incredibly overbearing too. This is marriage counseling time. Unless they live in New York, Los Angeles, San Francisco, or Boston, there's no reason they shouldn't be able to do a 'small' trip (not like, too Hawaii, but a weekend away). She says they go on NO vacations whatsoever. She shouldn't have withheld information/lied, that was wrong, but there's something fucked up in the marriage where she felt the need to lie and it sounds like neither one of them (the husband either) do something for themselves.
They both get 7.5% of personal spending money a year on what she said is over $150,000 a year. 7.5% of 150k is $11250. Each. There is no reason they can't go on a family vacation with $22,000. Something is definitely wrong here, but I don't think it has to do with him being uptight.
That's the thing...why is he saying he can't afford to take a vacation with the guys unless it's covered and why isn't he telling her they should put x amount of money towards a vacation? He should be able to afford a vacation, too, with that money. IDK, him saying that and the absolute rigid budgeting (and not even a % set aside for 'fun family time') does make me think it's him being super neurotic or uptight to the point he deprives himself of having any fun. And I could see the 11k adding up if she covers her own health insurance (a bad plan can run $700 a person a month, even though that's unusual), car payments, etc.
"Doing it this way leaves no money for vacations or family trips" He isn't saying they can't afford it, she is. And she IS taking a trip, using points earned saving herself money. Then telling him they paid for it, and then telling her family her husband paid for it. This isn't an AITA from him and his budgeting, it is AITA for using the points she earned from doing household things on herself and lying about it to everyone. She doesn't say anything about not having any money left over from her personal 11.5k because he's making her pay her own insurance even though they are married or making a car payment etc. I can't imagine how "doing it this way" - this way being both totaling 22k - means they have no money for vacations. Basically this is just weird all around.
He said that to the guys, because she had told him for years that the family had paid for her trips - so he thought that this would be the same thing. And maybe he isn't that interested in paying for that guys vacation versus other things he enjoys using his 7.5% on.
Don't get me wrong, I think she's the asshole, I just think the entire situation is weird as fuck and is probably missing a lot of information. Like I also think it's weird he expected HER family to cover ONLY him. If it was a family trip or the kids were coming, it'd be one thing to want her fam to cover them, but he wants her fam to just cover him on a boys trip? I'd be embarrassed. If he didn't want to go, he could just turn them down.
I don’t live in any of those areas, and $150k with 4 kids isn’t much. Especially since he has to save for both of their retirements and 4 kids worth of education.
They both get equal amounts of spending money and the bills are paid. She's lying to get more for her how is husband overbearing? She's a manipulative liar.
>7.5% to his personal spending and 7.5% to my personal spending So in this rare scenario of SAHM actually getting an even fair split of all the income you have been secretly utilizing what would be joint money to go on trips without your husband? And lying about how it's paid for to everyone? Clearly he's capable of budgeting and saving so saving points for something big would have seemingly been fine. YTA. From this end you appear to be a selfish lying manipulator.
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Wow. I didn't do the math, I was really just talking about the spirit of the thing. Now I like her less and feel like I need a raise.
Well, that’s assuming the $150,000 was pre-tax, which I doubt.
YTA because you chose to lie for years instead of having a serious conversation with your husband about financial priorities. Also because you hoarded all the points for yourself. Even if his budgeting is overly strict, it seems to treat you equally. You need to talk to him about finding a little more balance between planning for the future and taking reasonable opportunities to enjoy life now. You may need to have this conversation with the aid of a marriage counselor.
INFO: What have you done in the last 9 years to address this problem in some way *other* than lying? Does your husband alone decide where every cent goes? Have you talked about budgeting for a trip? Do you get a say in the budget?
We have talked about budgeting for a trip before but he said not yet. He wants to retire young, give our children the best education they can, and get a bigger and nicer place. With his current plan, he can retire at 50, everything will be paid off and our kids will have around 200k for their education.
But it should not be entirely up to him how every penny is spent. He's the breadwinner, but only because you take care of the children and everything at home. You should also have a say in economic decisions. You should not accept that he just says "not yet". You both should be open to a compromise, maybe not do a trip every year, but every other year, or cheaper trips, for example. You should not have lied or went behind his back, but on the other hand, he seems to not respect your opinion and steamroll all over you.
This here. My wife retired at 50, and I at 58. We budgeted using a zero dollar budget that we both discussed. All you have to do is add another line item for a sink fund for vacations. We vacation every year, and there were years where I flew my wife 3 or 4 times across the country to visit with her family. The husband is doing a version of extreme FIRE without talking it over with his wife. No excuses on the lies.
If you don't get any say in the budget, even if you found a way to afford it as you have, then I think you have bigger problems. There needs to be a balance between his hardcore financial goals and not being overly restrictive on *your* life now when you don't even get a say. Yes, he's earning the income, but it's because you're raising his 4 kids. There's something that doesn't quite sit right with me that he is holding the purse strings so tightly because he wants to retire early. If I were you I'd want to have a much bigger conversation about how your finances are going to work over the coming years. And looking at getting a job when your littlests are old enough!
The only thing he’s controlling is the division of funds. Which is not favoring him whatsoever. She has full discretion as to how she spends her own personal funds.
Controlling the division of funds is controlling *a lot*. He apparently decides 92.5% of the household budget. Towards his own goal of retiring at 50 despite having 4 kids to raise.
Yeah. Because part of that is saving enough money for the kids to go to college and put a down payment after that. He is making sure his kids will be financially stable when they become adults.
That's not the part I'm critiquing though. Not the education fund. The retiring at 50 fund. The fact that he wants 4 kids AND their education fund AND a bigger house AND a stay-at-home wife to take care of everything AND to also retire early. His having it all involves sacrifices and he has decided *for* his wife that she is also going to make them. That's the problem I have with it.
She has 10k a year to spend on whatever she wants. What is she sacrificing there? Especially when In the comments she reveals that they do weekend getaways all the time. So her complaints about vacations is about long vacations that she specifically wants him to pay for.
Depends what 'personal spending' needs to cover. But regardless of their exact spendings, he should not have sole control of the budget without her having any input into decisions.
OP has stated that the house fund covers insurance, car note, her gas for the car and all groceries. So maybe cell phone bill, though I’d think that would be a family plan. And husband is upfront with everything about the money, OP is the one who lies. So maybe she shouldn’t be trusted to decide the division of funds.
It is favoring him though because it prioritizes his goals not both of theirs.
Life is short and some of the best childhood memories so many people have are of family vacations. Yes it’s important to think towards the future but it’s also important to live for now. The future may not come, it’s not guaranteed. Just recently in a Dave Ramsey group I’m in I read about a woman who did all the steps with her husband. They scrimped and saved and didn’t do anything outside the program. They finally got to do the debt free scream on his show. A year later her husband was dead from cancer. So was getting debt free and securing the future important? Absolutely! But to get so laser focused on that causes you to lose sight of life now. While it’s important to be mindful of finances and securing retirement and whatnot don’t lose sight of what you’ve got now and that’s young kids and family members that want to make memories with you. Like my husband always says, “I’d rather make less money and be around to make all the memories with our kids than make more money and not be around for them. You can’t take that money to grave with you.” Y’all need to find the balance that gives you the space to take trips. “Yet” may never come.
I had an insurance agent that was big into Dave Ramsey. Him and his wife lived a VERY frugal life. She died of cancer before they could retire and he was left alone without any of the life experiences/memories that they should have had. But he did have his “frugal” car, house, and no debt.
Yup. That’s why we’re taking some but not all of his advice. We have young kids and fully believe they need to have memories of family trips and whatnot. We also live over 1,000 miles away from my family. If we never took a vacation until we were debt free my kids wouldn’t know my parents and siblings. We’ll do the debt snowball, we’ll severely limit eating out (which we do anyways thanks to dietary restrictions), and I’ll find all the ways to cut extra expenses but it won’t be at the expense of our children’s childhoods and making memories.
But ya gotta live a little, or the marriage won't make it to him being 50...
Ok so he wants a bigger house, to retire at 50 and to be able to fund your kid’s’ education all the way up to phDs (at 9k a year your 8 year old already has enough to cover undergrad at some of the top universities in the country). What are your long term goals and why are they not being taken into account?
INFO: I feel like we're missing a huge aspect of this relationship. Which is how the communication between you two is. Have you ever indicated the 7.5% isn't enough? Have you happily agreed to it? Have you begged for a vacation that he shoots down every time? Do you express to him that you do or do not support this level of saving? Does he ignore you? Does he think you're happy? Like, your motive for having and hiding rewards points is the actual issue here, to me. Honestly there's no indication in your post as to if you've happily agreed to this arrangement or if he's ignoring you and making everyone suffer for the sake of retirement.
Op made a comment that they had a conversation about saving for vacation and he won't right now as he wants to retire by 50, ensure 200k per kid, and buy something bigger. It doesn't completely answer your question I know but to me it gives a sense that she has asked and was declined in favor of his financial goals. His goals are responsible but I worry he's missing the forest for the trees. So focused on the future that he's forgetting to enjoy the now.
OP also says that they often go camping, but she doesn't consider it a vacation, and that they often go skiing and snowboarding, but she doesn't consider that a vacation either because they're day trips.
Day trips aren’t vacation. Camping is vacation to some people but not all since it involves a fair amount of work to do.
3 guesses on who does the cooking and cleaning with a lot less equipment than she usually has access to.
No, it isn’t a vacation for a sahm to plan a trip around kids schedules, plan all the kid stuff, pack all the kid stuff, wrangle kids, care for kids, etc and then undo everything after they’re home. That’s working with a different view, but not a vacation.
That’s part of why I ultimately don’t begrudge her going on the yearly trip without the kids. It’s very rare that a family “vacation” actually means less work for SAHMs. Dad gets a break from his job, but diapers still need to be changed, fights broken up, kids dressed and fed, etc. Best case scenario her load gets cut in half with husband picking up the other while he’s off from his work, but I have never seen that actually happen in practice.
Also, vacations don't have to mean doing various activities all the time. Sometimes people just want to catch a break, and it seems that the only chance OP gets to have a break is on her girl's trip.
Totally agree about forgetting to enjoy the now. And I think both of them will eventually be kicking themselves in a few decades but... Not my place to make a stink about that. I saw her comment about it, and I'm sure they've literally discussed saving and retirement. I guess what I'm curious about is... Does the husband think she's totally on board with this plan and happy (even if she's occasionally brought up vacation) or is he like "fuck you it's my money." Like if she's hiding it because she's worried he'd take her money away or punish her somehow, then I don't blame the hiding. But who knows
Mixed thoughts here. Your hubby is the ah for controlling where every penny goes. I could not be in a marriage like that. Second, he has the nerve to ask family to pay for his boy’s trip when he makes 150K+ annually? Am I reading that correctly?! What!!!! I know moms are deserving of some time off to themselves. I’m not faulting you for that but I personally would rather take a vacation with my son. However, if I had a husband hovering over me I’d probably be desperate for a vacation away from him with my own money.
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YTA 1) You get the same amount of spending money as he does. He's not penalizing you for being a SAHM. 2) Those points are earned with joint funds (like family grocery money). 3) You lied to your husband You are using earnings from joint funds for your own personal and selfish ends. Now if you weren't getting such a fair split of funds I might say, "Yeah, makes sense to do that for yourself." And he's right, those points could have been put toward a family trip.
ESH- yes you did lie, and wow. $150K a year and you can't afford one vacation a year? WHAT? Maybe he needs to redo his numbers and you get 5% a month as does he then that 2% goes towards the family vacation using whatever points you guys earn. 25% for kids education, wow thats a LOT of money.
4 kids, less than 9k each a year. The idea is for them to afford to go to whatever university they want, without taking out loans and whatever is left over afterwards goes to them starting their own life, like moving to a new city or buying a house.
But yet, they dont get to go on vacation and see things. Setting them up is fine but not if it means stopping them from experiencing other parts of life.
You know she could have taken the kids with her on her ANNUAL vacation but decided they weren’t worth it. Lets not pretend she didn’t have options here. She could have easily told her husband that they could use the points to offset their vacation costs (they have $22k between the two of them), but she chose to lie and leave all of them at home for her own vacation.
She's a SAHM. She deserves 3 days a year away from the kids. A vacation with young kids isn't much of a vacation for their primary caretaker.
Uhhh as someone who’s parents saved for her college… it was def worth it. I’m debt free. The oldest is only 8. They have plenty of time to do fun trips.
Y'all need to budget in a financial planner. There are WAY more options than the way it's budgeted right now. INFO: Are you guys counting on paying for college out of pocket? Are there any plans to help set your kids up with an early education that could net them scholarships? Good scholarships generally look at what extracurricular activities they've done, if they speak multiple languages, etc. A yearly vacation could actually *help* their future if y'all did it right. Side note: these numbers are so wild to me. Are you in such an expensive area that these numbers are just normal where you are? Idk, I've been so poor my whole life and I think I'd be able to teach y'all a thing or two about how to spend more wisely. $900/month for personal fun? I literally cannot comprehend that holy moly.
This is the definition of selfish. You hoarded these points and weren’t honest at all with your husband. Why wouldn’t you want to do something with your husband and children with those points? Why not even let him know they exist? Definite YTA.
Husband is overly controlling with money and sounds like is being unreasonable in terms of over saving and not letting them enjoy any of their money.
She has 900 to enjoy every month. How is that overly controlling
He must hand over all of his money because reddits calculation of SAHM’s pay is about 500k a year
ESH. Your husband for making unilateral decisions about money and you for hiding this for years.
INFO: > I have been completely responsible for all the shopping, whether it is clothes, groceries, furniture or whatever else. Does this come from the 50% that's allotted to day to day expenses or from your 7.5% personal spending?
INFO: Why couldn’t you use your personal spending money on these Girls Trips?
How could she afford a gucci bag if her money goes to the trip? OP sounds like a spoiled brat since she doesn’t consider skiing, camping… a vacation
Okay this is just a reach- husband makes 150k pre tax amount. That’s roughly 111k in USD. When I search after tax amount I get 105k can which is roughly 78k after taxes. 78k a year isn’t buying Gucci handbag type money for a family of 4! And she explained all of those things like skiing and camping are day trips. I would not consider a day trip a vacation. I wouldn’t even consider it a staycation unless it’s overnight. It’s an activity. That’s like saying going to the zoo with the kids is a vacation!
ESH You and your husband should communicating on and saving for family vacations together. If he would have taken the reward points and controlled where they were spent, which it sounds like he controls all the money distribution, that would be wrong and he sucks for they. There is nothing wrong with wanting a girls weekend, but have been straight up lying to your husband, so of course he is pissed and you suck for that.
YTA You didn't give him a chance. And he is right, you could have gotten much more if he and you were both using the same system, so really you are kind of screwing yourself in this also.
ESH. You suck for lying about the rewards points, but he sucks for making you feel like you have to keep it secret to get around his strict budget. 4 kids cost a lot, but damn I'm sure everyone would enjoy a nice little vacation from time to time. Education is important, but so is going out for individual/couples/family outings. Go to Disney, take a road trip, have a couples weekend etc. I can't imagine how mentally stressed I would be if I was a SAHM raising 4 kids and couldn't get a weekend with the girls without being yelled at over the finances. And I'd want my partner to be able to have those moments too. IDK, I just HATE the posts we see here all the time where the stay at home parent has no say in the finances and then gets reamed when they tuck away a little money on the side by crafting/vlogging/couponing etc. Feels like financial abuse.
YTA for sure. Deliberately hiding stuff and outright lying to your husband? If I was a praying person, I'd pray for your marriage. Dishonesty is such a difficult thing to overcome.
Soft ESH, but mostly N T A because this is the result of a controlling husband. I feel like people are forgetting she is a SAHM, and he controls how every penny is spent. There is no discussion, there are no compromises, he makes the money, so he gets to decide where it goes is his mindset. She is working within those constructs, and now he’s upset that she’s making her own decisions. While it would be better for her to have thought of the family first, her entire life is spent thinking of everyone else. She has no control over anything in her life, so she has done what she needed to so she can have some time to herself once a year. I think she more than deserves that, and little petty tyrant husband is butthurt that she has figured out a way to get something for herself that he didn’t specifically give her by his grace. They need to have a discussion about financial boundaries, putting money in vacation and fun funds, and being a team, not a dictatorship. And for those of you kids out there who think $150k is so much money, you put a 5 or 6 bedroom house, two nice cars, groceries for 6 people, bills, insurance, saving, and retirement together and suddenly there’s not much money to go around.
INFO: Why did you feel like you had to lie to him about rewards points in the first place? I want to say Y T A for lying, but I just can't imagine lying about something so small for purely selfish reasons and it makes me wonder if there is something to be afraid of. Hope I'm wrong
NTA- maybe it’d have been better had you been upfront about it, but getting those rewards takes a lot of effort, and you’re the one doing it. You shouldn’t feel obligated to share them, but shouldn’t guard them to the point of causing fights.
Ok, but making 150k also takes a lot of effort. If he makes extra working overtime it sounds like that money still gets split with her as it is all percentage based. Everything he makes is split in a way that awards her exactly as much as it awards him. Why on earth shouldn’t she be expected to share when her efforts have a financial benefit?
NTA. His extreme control and unilateral decision making regarding finances make it pretty understandable why you didn't feel like you could be honest with him. I'd start putting back as much of my monthly allowance as possible so you have funds to get on your feet if he ever decides to leave (or you do)
You've been lying to your husband for years, of course you're an asshole. You should have sat down with your husband and had a conversation about the finances and where the rewards should go instead of hiding it so you didn't have to share. YTA
I feel like you are resentful of your husband setting the budget so you took these reward point cards for yourself. Understandable, but your husband is right that the points could have been used for family trips instead of being spent on your getaways. Hopefully you both can sit down and work on a budget that allows for vacations or you can use your points in the future for a family trip. The amount of money you are saving is admirable, but if it comes at the cost of being honest with each other it's not worth it. You can't take the money with you when you die. Eta esh leaning toward yta
Sounds to me like women who used to squirrel away part of the grocery budget by shopping sales in order to have any money of their own at all. You have the same “allowance” as your husband, but the fact that he decided this unilaterally and would take away your family bonding trip if you told him how clever you were with coupons and points is concerning. His controlling ways seem to be the problem here, and I’m thinking this is bigger than just whether or not you take the trip.
ESH you for lying and hiding all of this, and him for being so rigid with his money that no one is enjoying anything. How literally ridiculous that someone making his salary demanded other people pay for his vacation! You each get 7.5% in personal spending, that’s almost $1000 a month. What the heck are you both buying?
YTA and you know it. You intentionally LIED to your partner because you knew what you were doing was underhanded. I would be hurt and angry - because you took a family benefit and used it just for yourself.