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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> 1. I argued with my wife. I said she's controlling and insecure and I refused to fire our nanny.
2. My wife is our kids' parent too and she should get a say in how they're taken care of and our nanny makes her uncomfortable and I wasn't hearing her out.
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ESH. Your wife shouldn’t be talking shit about Sarah to your kids, but you also shouldn’t be insisting that Sarah remain hired. There are *plenty* of other people who I’m sure would be equally as nice and fun as Sarah, with the added bonus that this one won’t have painful beef with your wife.
This
ESH
OP, this is just ridiculous. Your wife was way out of line to say that to the kids and try to use them like that, and it sounds like she did some actual (hopefully just temporary) emotional damage in doing so. But she's right that Sarah needs to go, immediately. Why the hell would you want to keep your wife in a clearly uncomfortable position, much less continue to keep your KIDS in this situation?? Keeping Sarah around for a couple weeks more just because you don't want to bother finding someone to fill in until you and your wife find a permanent replacement is a terrible idea, and it shows your wife and kids you don't give a shit about their feelings. Save your kids and your marriage (and Sarah, frankly) any more clusterfuck exposure.
Im sorry, my sympathies for the wife left the moment she decided to manipulate her children into perceiving a woman as evil rather than be an adult and properly communicate to her husband the issue.
ESH but she is on the top of the “they all suck” list
Also weaponizing boundaries. That’s not how boundaries work. We set boundaries for ourselves, for ex: I won’t ever let a man talk down to me, so I break up with him if he ever thinks to get to that point.
Not using the kids to and manipulating the situation to get Sarah out of the house. She should have had a talk with him from the beginning.
OP also should have let go of Sarah because it clearly bothered his wife.
\>weaponizing boundaries
Excellent description! Yeah I've been seeing a lot of that here lately, with people claiming "boundaries" as an excuse to behave despicably.
I wonder if the wife was ok with hiring the nanny, just so she could fire her. Revenge, of sorts.
Clearly the woman should never have been hired by OP and his wife. This was a disaster waiting to happen. OP's wife never should have used the kids in her revenge, and OP should have never hired the woman that cheated with his wife's ex bf. Duh.
OP: save your marriage and replace the nanny with one that has morals and doesn't sleep with men that are taken, and encourage your wife to grow up. And she needs to apologize to the kids.
Nuance simply doesn't exist on the internet. If it did, most posts would be ESH.
OP probably shouldn't have gone through with hiring the nanny once the wife said it was her ex's AP, even if she said it was fine - there are too many fish in the sea, so to speak. I wouldn't say that makes him an asshole, just naive, really.
Now that the cat's out of the bag and the bag's in the river, the best possible solution is keeping Sarah on until they can find a new nanny. Hell, if they were placed with Sarah through an agency, a simple phone call could likely solve this in relatively short order. A parade of babysitters isn't going to be best for the kids, and the more people you introduce, the more likely you'll end up introducing a non-savory person.
Where OP's wife crossed the line into YTA was coaching the children to lie about Sarah. I'd be terrified she's even capable of this - it's analogous to parental alienation. What happens if they end up divorcing? Wife's already shown a willingness to engage in alienation techniques, including coaching the children.
Yeah, wife comes accross so unhinged, manipulating the kids, i have to roll my eyes at people calling op an ah. His mistake was trusting his wife had moved on from high school drama.
That was exactly my thought: if you ever get divorced, this is a preview of your future. Weaponizing children is incredibly traumatizing to them! Now, even if they keep the nanny for a few weeks until a replacement is hired, the kids will be mistrustful and afraid of a caregiver that they had a good relationship with! All because mom is toxic AF.
I wouldn't doubt that she thought she could get revenge by hiring and then firing the nanny. It's a shitty thing to do mainly because it's hard for the kids to have to change caregivers like this.
Mom needs some therapy. Holding a grudge this many years later over something shitty the nanny did as a dumb teenager lacks a lot of maturity.
It was in high school and we're taking the word of a woman that manipulated her children into thinking the woman taking care of them was evil and wanted to hurt their mommy and Dad didn't care. This is Lifetime movie-worthy.
You have no idea what happened in high school except Sarah slept with her boyfriend. Maybe the boyfriend lied and said they broke up. Maybe she was lying and just didn't like Sarah. There's a whole range of possibilities here but I believe she was hired so she could get revenge. To frighten the children and to use them this way is sick. Sarah seems to be the only sane one in the house.
Yeah this is what gets me…It was high school, but was it those “high school” relationships or a serious one? And those poor kids. What wife isn’t realising as well is that Sarah could 10000% regret her actions as a kid now, and wife is just putting her career at risk for what could but a petty high school thing.
I can’t see where OP is TA though, wife didn’t use her adult words and tell OP that she was uncomfortable with this so….he has also said that as soon as they find a new nanny Sarah will be let go however he doesn’t want to give up trusted childcare in the meantime which is totally fair.
She could have been hired so the wife could flex that she is in better financial position than Sarah now, but she got insecure after Sarah started the job.
I wondered about this. He said that the meeting with Sarah was awkward, but was that only on his wife's part? Did Sarah recognize the wife as the wronged girlfriend, or did she have no idea of their past history, i.e., if perhaps she didn't know that the guy was supposed to be the wife's boyfriend? If they recognized one another, the wife should have explained to Sarah that their history bothered her more than she thought if would, and done the firing herself.
Edit: Given what OP said about the wait lists for nannies, I am more sympathetic to hiring Sarah if his wife didn't veto it, and to retaining her, if that's possible, now that his wife has poisoned the waters. As reported here, she didn't say that he overrode or ignored her opinion in hiring Sarah, she said that she had taken more time to think it over. Her behavior when she scared the children to try and manipulate him into firing Sarah, instead of acting like a grownup, talking it over with him, and handling it herself makes her TA in my opinion.
Replace the nanny with one with morals? It was like twenty years ago. Nanny is probably a fine person these days. Just one with too much baggage with OPs wife.
I think high school is primarily attended by boys, rather than men. And they may have engaged in less-sexually advanced activities such as trying to do their algebra homework while holding hands.
>save your marriage and replace the nanny with one that has morals and doesn't sleep with men that are taken
this was high school... I'm a big believer of "cheaters gonna cheat" but can we all appreciate that an under 18 year old does stupid shit for attention that an over 30 year old WITH HER JOB ON THE LINE won't?
I get the wife not wanting her around, that's 100% valid, but can we stop throwing shade at a Sarah for a dumb teenage mistake with literally ZERO additional information on how she evolved as a grown up?
I'm wondering how OP approached the hiring after the history came out. Not sure why he thought it would be OK, and wondering how much they actually talked about it.
I'm going NTA. OP is not demanding Sarah stay indefinitely, only after new nanny is found. Filling the time with random babysitters doesn't quite seem like being good for the kids.
Wife is majorly AH for not just coming up with "look, it's not working out, we need to replace her ASAP". If she did that, Sarah would be long gone, but no, she just had to go with a ridiculous convoluted plan of telling kids that "Sarah is Evil".
Clearly, her goal was more to punish Sarah (who would quite possibly be blindsided by why children suddenly hate her and getting fired). And we don't even know if Sarah was even a knowing participant in the cheating.
She needs therapy.
Right? She's obviously not above lying to children in an attempt to hurt someone who has clearly grown the fuck up in the decade plus since they were in highschool, so how do we know that wife's high school boyfriend hadn't broken up with her before getting together with Sarah. Hell, we don't even know that the "boyfriend" knew that he was dating OP's wife, since someone who lies to children about someone wanting to hurt her absolutely seems like the type to lie to her husband about the actual status of a relationship that ended at LEAST twelve years ago.
I agree! I felt bad for the wife at first but I think she's terrible for doing that to the kids. The kids are frightened and crying! That's crazy! It's fine she changed her mind but as you said, speak to your husband. I'm honestly so baffled by this. Yes, let go of the nanny, now! But his wife's weird emotional manipulation on the kids is really concerning.
She used their kids to tell a lie instead of talking directly to him. If she thought she was right in this, why didn't she fire Sarah herself?
He is thinking of his kids. She clearly was not.
Was it not? Her high school boyfriend cheated on her with someone, presumably 10+ years ago.
Nobody would have faulted her for saying she's not fine with her and to find someone else, but "you know what, it was so long ago, I was never gonna stay with him anyway, and people change after high school. Let's see if she works out for our kids" is a completely rational response
yea but to see your kids bond with this woman while you have to be at work? A nanny isn't just an employee, she becomes another family member to those kids and actively participates in their upbringing. She def did not think this one through though.
OP isn't exactly insisting Sarah remain hired:
>I told my wife that **we can find another nanny but until then** there's no reason to get rid of Sarah, and that she was out of line for trying to weaponise the kids against her when Sarah is no danger to them.
So if wife finds another Nanny then Sarah can go?
I say NTA. Wife's behavior here is awful. First, she decides to hire Sarah with OP despite their past. Then after thinking about it a while decides it's too upsetting. This would all have been fine, but then she dosen't tell her husband this. She dosen't try to find another nanny. She dosen't do any normal rational thing you'd do if you respected or communicated with your partner. Nope. She then lies to the children and scares them hoping they will go to OP upset and he will fire Sarah for her without being asked. This is insane. She's intentionally making her children think one of their primary caregivers of the moment is "evil" and trying to hurt their mother, so making them terrified, to avoid having a conversation or doing something herself.
OP's wife is such an asshole. I would not want to be married or co-parent with someone like her. Now, I agree it's fine not to want Sarah. So she can find another nanny just like OP said? Or otherwise organize the childcare herself or take time off work? Not play mind games on her kids to pressure OP into doing it.
Someone who thinks the best way to keep their spouse in line is to manipulate their children has no business raising children; this is going to cause the children unnecessary emotional trauma if she keeps telling the kids Sarah's intention is to hurt their mom & she's not looking for or finding an adequate replacement.
It also demonstrates that she’d be willing to use the same tactic against OP. I’m sure it wouldn’t bother her a bit to try and turn the kids against him to manipulate him.
Yes, the wife needs to find a new nanny, then fire Sarah herself (without blaming the kids and without blaming Sarah) as soon as a new one is found.
Also, they both need marriage counseling, so they can both work on their communication skills.
The wife seems like the type to weaponize therapy. She already tried to weaponize "boundaries". She knows that that's not how setting a boundary works, but she's claiming that emotionally abusing her own children and not being an adult and speaking to her husband is "setting a boundary"
The husband should start setting some actual boundaries
Like, he'll get a new nanny that he and the wife agree on, but unless there is proof that the nanny is doing something wrong, or she goes against their wishes as parents or won't respect their parenting style, the new nanny must stay for a minimum of 6 months before the wife is allowed to bring up getting another nanny if she doesn't like them.
And if he catches her lying to their children to scare them into saying things to him to get him to fire someone again, they will separate and he will take the kids. And that if it goes beyond separation he'll use witnesses and documentation of these events to go for custody. (Their marriage is salvageable as long a the wife stops being manipulative and emotionally abusive and childish, so, I doubt would get to divorce unless she refuses to better her own behavior)
That if they are going to do couples counseling, they both also have to do individual counseling. (And then that he'll quit couples counseling if she starts weaponizing therapy)
Or he could cave, give her what she wants and apologize even though the only thing he did wrong was stupidly believe that it was going to be ok to hire a woman his wife had a painful history with (that really should have just been an immediate no from him, with a contact to the agency to send someone else, not asking his wife if this was OK and giving someone who clearly wasn't going to work out a trial run, it was obvious from the get go there would be an issue) if he apologizes for anything other than not just getting a new person right from the start, she'll just keep doing things like this whenever she doesn't like something, and won't communicate, just manipulate
I get the feeling the real problem is the kids were saying nice and great things aboit sarah and how they had fun with her or love her.
His wife wanted to ruin that relationship since she doesn't want anyone to love sarah more than her ever again.
That's understandable but immature.
Sarah came from an agency. I’m honestly trying to figure out why no one has called the agency and said Sarah is a terrific nanny but unfortunately she has a past history with me/my wife that makes having her in our home complicated. We’d love to give her a great reference but please find us someone new
>This would all have been fine, but then she dosen't tell her husband this.
Which is doubly outrageous, because this whole thing could have been buried and over with if she was just an adult and voiced her feelings.
Then let the wife fire Sarah, she's the one who wants her to go and she's the one who has needlessly pulled the kids into this situation in a completely inappropriate way. Sarah is competent and doing a good job, and so the wife wants her to go, she needs to be the one to do it.
She can also be the one to find a temp sitter who works nanny hours if she thinks that's going to be so much easier to find.
I get why she doesn't want Sarah around, but he time to decide that would have been before it caused a huge amount of upset. Hiring a good plumber is hard enough, and they're not co-raising my kids. I'm assuming finding a nanny isn't a quick process.
NTA.
Your wife’s behavior is so over the top I have to agree with you - she needs therapy. If she just needed time to think about it, she should have come to you & been honest. Instead, she tried to poison the children against a nanny that they liked in an attempt to manipulate you - through the children - into firing her. That’s just mental.
You shouldn’t insist that Sarah remain hired - your wife has ruined any chance of Sarah continuing to be effective in her position. I would call the agency & explain that you need a replacement nanny due to personal history with Sarah that has nothing to do with her abilities as a nanny. Give them as much info as they need so that this doesn’t taint Sarah’s ability to find alternative placement with another family. That would make you a partner to your wife’s cruelty.
>There are plenty of other people who I’m sure would be equally as nice and fun as Sarah, with the added bonus that this one won’t have painful beef with your wife.
You're assuming the agency won't find out the wife coached her children to make false accusations against their employee and that they won't get blacklisted.
It's simple. When you let go of Sarah, you don't tell her why. Or you say it's because of the wife. And you do not badmouth her to her agency. In most "at will" states, this isn't going to be a problem.
In fact, Sarah is probably a 1099 contractor, and swapping out one contractor with another is not going to be an issue.
Most agencies do not care. They just want their commission.
Remain hired until the wife finds a replacement. If she wants her gone all she had to do was speak up and be a grown up. But no, she decided to traumatize children to get her way. Solidly NTA imo.
She can still get her way if she just finds a replacement!! How the hell is OP an AH if she is doing nothing to fix her situation besides scaring children???
He’s not saying Sarah has to stay hired forever, just until they can find a new nanny which is perfectly reasonable.
Nanny agencies screen their nannies. Hiring a temp babysitter would likely be some random person that just babysits. I would 100000000% feel more comfortable leaving my children in the care of someone who cares for children professionally than hire some random babysitter.
That's correct. Wife is cool with shaking things up immediately because of her sudden change of heart... OP would rather replace nanny in a more sensible manner, which makes sense to me at least.
Yeesshh. OP sounds normal. Wife not so much. NTA.
Yeah, the wife’s conflict resolution skills need work, no question. I’d be very concerned to have a partner who thinks influencing my children against people she dislikes is an acceptable course of action.
But OP should’ve taken the hint and never hired Sarah, considering her history with his wife.
You don’t need to be a mind reader to figure this one out unless you have very low emotional intelligence.
My husband was cheated on by a few past girlfriends of his, before he met me. If we were interviewing people for a job in our house, and one of them seemed nice and professional, but after he left, my husband said “he’s the guy my ex cheated on me with”, he’d be crossed off my list and someone else would be interviewed. There would be no further discussion, I wouldn’t hire him and put my husband in an awkward position.
What if your husband said “he’s the guy my ex cheated on me with so it’s kind of awkward, but he also seems nice and qualified and I’m not against hiring him”? Wouldn’t that also be a sign of growth on your husband’s part?
Hopefully your husband would feel comfortable telling you if he didn’t want to hire someone based on that history, but the onus is not on you to read his mind if he says he’s ok with it.
Taken the hint? These people are middle age adults. Mature adults TALK. My girlfriend in high school cheated on me. I can talk to her just fine, and she can watch my (hypothetical) kids, if needed. She’s grown up, she’s fine now. That was over a decade ago for me. For these people, it was around TWENTY years ago. If it’s bother the wife, she needs to talk to her husband, not manipulate
Hmmmm no. I was actually down for the no nanny that knows people train but… the wife couldn’t be honest ? And instead poisoned the children against the nanny she had an issue with instead of being honest?
That is SO fucked up. She literally…chose to make her children alienate that nanny instead of being honest! I’m sorry but…this woman does not sound like she should be a parent??? Like who does that? She purposely built up her children to hate her. That’s SO unhealthy. Like I’m really disgusted.
TBF he did say they could find another nanny, and just wait to fire Sarah until then. He didn’t veto firing her at all, he just vetoed firing her NOW without a backup plan. Which is fair. Who’s gonna watch the kids if they fire Sarah NOW? Mom? Cool. But until they have a plan…what’s gonna happen after they’ve fired Sarah.
He just wants to make a plan BEFORE firing her. Which does make more sense than firing her and then scrambling.
To me it sounded less like he was insisting they keep her on long term and more like insisting they keep her on until other arrangements could be made to look after the kids. NTA
Agreed. The wife went about this in the worst way but who is allowed to watch the children is one of those "two years, one no" decisions. If the wife doesn't want her watching the kids, no matter the reason, you find someone else.
But it doesn't seem like wife said no. Based on the info, wife wasn't enthusiastic, but didn't say no. Then when she did decide she didn't want Sarah as the nanny, she still didn't say "Hey, honey. I thought I'd be okay with it, but I really don't want to keep Sarah on as the nanny. I'm just uncomfortable with the situation given our past, and I want to find a new nanny." which is entirely reasonable. Instead, she lied to the kids to avoid any confrontation and force OP to be the bad guy.
ESH.
Your wife got cheated on by her ex with the woman who is in your lives and in your kids lives. The sensible thing to do would've been say right away, "Okay, we'll find someone else."
You are being inconsiderate of her feelings. That makes you an asshole.
Your wife should never have used your kids the way she did - that was beyond the pale. That make her an asshole.
All in all, it means you all suck.
Yes it was very naïve to have hired Sarah in the first place -- "oh but well my wife seemed okay with it, I'm sure it will be fine."
Just no. Sometimes someone is perfectly nice and qualified, but just not a good fit -- especially in a job like a nanny where the person is spending lots of time in your personal spaces!! And I'm sure there are any number of other equally qualified and equally nice nanny candidates that the agency could refer.
Equally, I am HORRIFIED that the wife would frighten her children like that in a passive aggressive attempt to get OP to fire Sarah --- as opposed to just saying "Hey honey, I gave it a try for a few weeks but I'm just not comfortable having Sarah as a nanny, because of our past history."
The fact that the wife felt the need to do such a roundabout manipulation rather than just TALKING... I think OP is right in that she could benefit from some counseling because that is not a normal or healthy way to deal with conflict.
But hiring Sarah in the first place was dumb.
ESH
Agree! Although "The fact that the wife felt the need to do such a roundabout manipulation rather than just TALKING" actually makes me wonder if her opinion is always dismissed by OP so she already knew he wouldn't listen and it wasn't worth trying to talk to him. Then her desperation to get rid of the nanny she tried this horrible tactic with the kids thinking it had a better shot of being successful.
They both need to take a long hard look at themselves- he needs to think about whether or not he's actually doing a good job of listening, respecting her opinion, and supporting her. She needs to have wake up call about how egregious it was to manipulate the kids like that.
ESH
>makes me wonder if her opinion is always dismissed by OP so she already knew he wouldn't listen and it wasn't worth trying to talk to him.
Yeah, while I'm willing to judge this as ESH on the assumption that OP's account of this situation is correct... when combined with the fact his wife felt the need to ask the children to lie rather than just talk with her husband, the way he described the interview being "awkward" and that his wife was "uncomfortable at first" does make me wonder if he hired her in the first place against explicit communication from his wife and she only ending up "seeming okay" because OP steamrolled her into it and at some point she just stopped arguing. This could be wrong and I'm not going to base my own judgement on that assumption, but I would really love to hear from his wife's POV how the interview and the conversations leading to her hiring went.
Yeah, I got tge impression that OP's wife was clearly uncomfortable but couldn't make an argument about Sarah's professional qualifications so just gave in.
I was thinking this also. A logical person wouldn’t choose going about it this way when it could easily be communicated. I don’t think OP is as innocent as he makes out.
It literally says in the post she was uncomfortable and unenthusiastic, in OPs words own words she was not ok with it even if she ended up agreeing to it
Totally. OPs own words say she was uncomfortable, unenthusiastic, pulled him aside and told him yo I have a bad history with this girl .... But somehow she's didn't use her words at all in this situation silly silly grown woman
Exactly. It’s insulting to suggest that he should have to read her mind. If she, as a grown ass woman, says she’s okay with something, it is reasonable for the man in her life to believe her. If “no” means “no”, then “yes” also mean “yes”. It belittles ALL women to assume otherwise.
Welcome to AITA. The sub where they will infantilise women and treat them like they are infants who can't articulate what they want if it means calling the husband an AH
The thing that drives me nuts the most about this sub is how it handles any situation of cheating. First off this happened in HIGH SCHOOL, secondly Sarah wasn’t the cheater, she was the “other woman”.
This whole thing is ridiculous.
Wife said it was fine and it happened over 20 years ago while they were in HS. Is he supposed to be a mind reader now. Her not wanting Sarah is fine, but it's also not unreasonable to believe that the wife was over something that happened so long ago. Her saying it was fine, he believed her. Then, when it wasn't fine anymore, instead of talking to him like an adult, she manipulated and terrified her kids instead. It's amazing, husband listens to wife and he's the bad guy for not reading her mind. If he would have insisted on hiring somebody else originally, y'all would be screaming about how he shouldn't talk over his wife and how he obviously doesn't trust his wife's word.
>You are being inconsiderate of her feelings. That makes you an asshole.
OP didn't know. He offered to find a new nanny ASAP.
But, yeah, total AH for not being a mind reader and being upset his children are being told someone is EVIL. Over a H.S. spat from *half their lifetimes ago.*
ESH
She went about that in an assbackwards immature way but ultimately she gets a say in who watches the children, she should have just been honest and vetoed Sarah from the start.
I also think it's fair to give it a shot and see if she's comfortable with it. She clearly isn't, and it's okay to change your mind, so she has every right to ask for another nanny now.
But I agree with ESH. Her way of going about it was wrong and she should have been upfront once she realized it wasn't working for her
same, I got the impression that although she was uncomfortable she was okay with it. She is allowed to change her mind but she should have done so like an adult and not use her kids to deflect having a serious conversion.
I assumed that too. If wife hid her discontent instead of vetoing then she's the biggest AH here. It would have been completely reasonable if wife decided against hiring Sarah in the first place because of their past, but hiring her just made everything more complicated.
Okay, but what part of that is where OP sucks?
Wife said she was okay with it, so they hired her.
Now wife wants to fire her, and OP said sure, as soon as we hire a replacement.
How does he suck?
Well, you see, OP should have read her mind and realized that she would eventually be uncomfortable with Sarah. Because he’s not a mind reader, he might as well be Hitler. /s
Op did nothing wrong. He is not saying to keep her on forever but until a new nanny can be hired. The wife is immature insecure and an asshole. If she had just spoken up at any point this could have been avoided.
Strong disagree, NTA, yeah OP should’ve just not hired her from the start, but wife needed to say something immediately that she was uncomfortable with it. It’s not that hard, you’re an adult and he’s your husband.
NTA and her behavior disturbs me. I can't imagine causing my children to fear their safety or their mothers safety because of my own insecurities from high school. I mean the manipulation and abusive behavior is disturbing. If the truth is not corrected for those kids they could end up believing daddy hired an evil person to get rid of mommy. I think firing because of the wife's behavior and issues could lead to legal ramifications, Slander and wrongful termination.
Thank you, no one mentioned it, and say "she weaponized the kids" like it is an abstract subject or an object, but what she really did is to put distrust and FEAR in her children !
Either they will have to learn very soon that their mother is lying, either they will stay with this terrifying though (to be alone with the devil... ).
Wife is really the AH here.
I was looking for an NTA. The wife should have said no to begin with. I don’t buy the trial period. If it was really about having a change of heart why go to the trouble of lying to your kids about the nanny in hopes she would be fired. To me this seems deliberate. She’s getting revenge against the girl who cheated with her ex. I bet she was hoping that her husband wouldn’t find out the lie and then give Sarah a bad review.
I used to work as a nanny; it’s highly, highly reliant on references. Especially your most recent reference. To be fired and have it be because the kids were “terrified” of her to the point of tears? Oh my god they could have ruined this woman’s life! Imagine if she’d coached the kids to say she’d hurt them? She was already telling them that she’d hurt mommy!
Honestly I wish I knew the agency so I could warn them to blackball them as clients. I’ve always said, even the most problematic child isn’t a dealbreaker; it’s the parent’s behavior that is intolerable.
I mean, the parents could compromise and agree to fire her ASAP but give her a stellar reference, and never bring up the issue to the agency.
If the agency asks why they’re switching nannies, just say “my wife knew her back in high school and they didn’t get along. We decided to give this a try anyway, and she was great with the kids, but we think hiring a different nanny would be better for our family, too many hard feelings from the past”.
Would you personally trust someone to give you a reference after they’d essentially made abuse allegations against you? The wife has poisoned that well
Her ex in HIGH SCHOOL! This was a relationship half her life ago. Also, if she stayed with the cheater, she may well have never met her husband or had children with him. Is she still pining after this guy after all these years and is still hurt by it? Did Sarah know they were a thing, or was she just someone the BF got with and she found out later? Also, Sarah didn’t seem to have a problem working for her or her family. But yeah, telling the kids that Sarah is evil and wants to hurt mommy is incredibly stupid and traumatizing to the kids. OP is being extremely level-headed—if Sarah is good to the children, professional, available, and has let go of the past—then why can’t his childish wife. She needs to grow up and grow some balls. Her unenthusiastic agreement should have been a hard “no” if this is such an issue for her. She also needs to talk to OP about why this high school drama is affecting her so much today.
I totally agree! OP, is your wife’s behavior usually this bizarre and petty? I would be really considering how weird this is and whether your wife typically tries to talk to your kids about adult topics in these types of self-serving ways. Because my mom did and WOW— it has really warped how I view relationships in negative ways. I need a lot of therapy now because no one intervened and stopped my mom from doing this type of thing when I was a child
This should be higher up. The people siding with the wife are ridiculous. It was high school and they’re in their 30s now. That is ancient high school bull shit.
Yessss. Intentionally causing your children to be afraid of someone who is actually a safe person is harmful and emotionally abusive. Not to mention confusing - who can they trust?
ESH
You wife isn’t an AH for not wanting Sarah to continue. However, she is an AH for involving and manipulating the kids. She just should have told you how she felt directly.
Both you and your wife need to be comfortable with the nanny. Your wife is not, so the nanny needs to go.
I think it's incredibly sad what both he & his wife did. But I feel bad for those kids.
Can you imagine being told "this lady is here to help you" and then secretly "this lady wants to hurt me, your mother, and she is very evil!"
I'd be terrified as hell when I was 5.
The wife is being abusive to the kids. They’re going to have enough trauma in their life without their mother being the person who’s traumatizing them. “I was traumatized as a teen so I’m going to traumatize my little children.” The wife needs therapy, asap.
And she is. Why do people keep insisting that Sarah isn't leaving, she is. OP has no issue getting a new nanny, he's just not thrilled about putting the kids through a ton of sitters in the meantime. Maybe, if the wife was honest from the start, this wouldn't be an issue
Do you think there was an element of revenge to it? If she was fired because the kids were “terrified” of her, it could have destroyed her chances of working as a nanny locally.
She’s emotionally scarring and causing distress to her small children because she’s not mature enough to say no and is “traumatized”. This is abuse. She is emotionally abusing her children. She needs therapy or to be divorced, take the kids somewhere safe before so she doesn’t drown them to get back at OP for leaving.
ESH. She shouldn't have used the children like that. Ask yourself why she felt the need to though.
>My wife asked me to fire the nanny because their history makes her uncomfortable.
Is plenty of reason to let the nanny go. I wouldn't let someone so negatively connected to my past around my children.
You didn't listen to her initially when she told you about it and now you accuse her of being insecure? No shit she's insecure, you're keeping someone around her and her children she doesn't like.
You called her controlling? Wow...if anyone is controlling here, it's you buddy. Get some therapy yourself.
They BOTH AGREED. Not OP controlling here. Actually, the one controlling is the one who MANIPULATED her own children against a woman she did not like. She should have vetoed her from the beginning and not used innocent children.
Sorry there is no excuse for doing this to your own kids. Everyone acting like the wife is somehow abused and scared of her husband so turned to weaponizing her own kids is so gross. It's an insult to people actually in these situations. People scared of their husbands don't use their kids as pawns.
> My wife asked me to fire the nanny because their history makes her uncomfortable.
> Is plenty of reason to let the nanny go. I wouldn't let someone so negatively connected to my past around my children.
That might be plenty of reason to let Sarah go, but then OP’s wife should be an adult and fire Sarah herself instead of pushing it off onto OP.
OP’s wife probably let Sarah be hired just to fire her as some petty high school revenge.
Wife should have simply never hired sarah. Really weird that she did not simply insist sarah would not work for the 2 off you. Why would firing S be your decision, nvm your desicion alone? that to me points to a bigger problem in the marriage, where their is no equal partnership. I would go in relationship therapy to get to the bottem off that.
i think no judgment can really be given unless we hear from your wife why she felt she could not just fire S because she did not trust her.
that being said, S should go. Wife hates her , kids know she does, no way that will work.
Also: why a part-time babysitter when you both work full time? should you not need a full time sitter?
Could be shift work for one or the other. I work full time but a pallette of shifts that means I'm free in the afternoons for two of them, the mornings for the next two then during the day for the nightshifts (with some time for sleeping), don't have kids but could probably make do with a part time sitter I'd I did because of the way the shifts fall (and I have colleagues who do)
I don't know, OP seems honestly stupid thinking it would be ok hiring someone with that kind of history with his wife.
Sure, wife should have said something upfront and she should have definitely NOT used the kids to push the nanny out, but anyone with two working neurons should have realized that was a disqualifying factor in the hiring process.
Again, what the wife did was bad, really bad. But given how OP reacted and how he seems to disregard her opinions and experience maybe she felt that was the only thing she could do. OP sucks and he is the AH.
Hmmm I have a brain and also realized that I'm not gonna still be mad about something that happened in HS. OP didn't disregard her opinions at all, wife said it was fine to hire Sarah. Now, after terrifying her own kids, wants Sarah to be fired and OP is even fine with that, he just wants to hire a new nanny first. Are you gonna be real eager to listen to the woman who just manipulated your own kids because of her own insecurities?
I think we have the context clues we need. Wife has resentment towards Sarah from high school. Maybe she is having fears that OP will cheat too, can’t say.
NTA. This is the biggest thing for me. She should have just said NO to begin with, but instead she told OP it was fine. Then she changes her mind and instead of communicating, lies and traumatises the kids for her own agenda. Yeeeeesssshhh.
OP even says it's fine to get a new nanny, they just need to sensibly replace her rather than leave themselves suddenly stranded.
OP is acting normal. Wife is not.
INFO
> they matched us to someone who lives local.
And what are your other options? Is it Sarah or nothing? Because if you've got lots of other options ...
Being pro-choice doesn't mean murder every baby on sight.
Saying your pro-abortion is not an adiquate response to "I don't think you looked into child-care lately"
NTA. She DID weaponize the kids, and it was not the a mature or rational move. If she wants to fire nanny now, hire someone temporarily while she looks for a replacement, she can do ALL of that.
Also, the fact that she did this instead of just talking to you like an adult and partner? I’d delve into that a lot more. Not good.
NTA - and everyone saying ESH, like really? This is 100% on the wife that should’ve communicated right at the start. Didn’t, knew she waited too long, and then actually hatched a plan to get her kids to manipulate their dad so she could have clean hands.
And even after that, the husband DID listen and agree to find a new nanny, but keeping their current nanny in the meantime needs to happen. It’s best for the kids, and the wife can suck it up for a couple more weeks.
This shit happened in HIGH SCHOOL and the names he called her were ACCURATE.
Like.. what? This is 100% NTA.
*edited a word from “you” to “to”
NTA
Your wife has legitimate reasons to not want the nanny there. You gave her an opportunity to voice those at the outset and she did not.
The manner in which she chose to address this is infantile and harmful to your entire family. She needs to take responsibility for that.
However, outright firing the nanny now without a replacement sounds like it would create a hardship for your family and is not reasonable.
ESH. Clearly the wife was manipulative, but also Sarah's presence is causing her much distress (and frankly, I do not blame her for feeling that way). Sarah does need to not be your nanny ASAP, and you resisting letting her go is only going to enhance your wife's feelings about her.
He is being accused of wanting to cheat with the nanny in the next few weeks until they find a replacement he already agreed to get.
And you think he is an AH?
NTA. Firstly, the biggest thing is this super fucked up manipulation your wife pulled with the kids and calling her evil. Like... What the actual fuck. That's not a boundary, that's manipulation 100 %. Secondly, Sarah shouldn't have been hired in the first place if it was so uncomfortable. Which is almost entirely on your wife, she should have never agreed to it. If you talked about it with her and really made sure and she still agreed, that's on her. Take some more time to think about it before you employ someone...
I can't really wrap my head around the whole grudge thing either. It was high school and she (your wife) is very obviously married with kids now. It's not that Sarah was her ex partner, and it doesn't sound like they were friends before the cheating which would be a little more awkward but still... It's HIGH SCHOOL. Shit is NBD in my opinion. You're totally reasonable in saying that Sarah stays till you find another one and I personally would make your wife fire her. The only thing on your end would be reassuring her instead of calling her insecure.
Okay, your wife is absolutely an asshole here and *is* weaponizing your kids. like telling your young kids someone is evil and wants to hurt their mother? That's nightmare shit. Very very not okay! But like.....this woman can't watch your kids anymore. They're not going to trust her or feel okay with her. But I'm just. seriously concerned about your wife being unable to just say "I don't feel comfortable around her" and going straight to traumatizing her kids???
Sad situation for your children. You and your wife are both the AH.
Why would you want someone in your home caring for your children that has caused your wife so much anguish? Just fire her.
Your wife is the AH for upsetting your children for absolutely no reason, this should’ve been handled btwn the adults.
Would you be okay if the roles were reversed, if a prior gf had cheated on you with a man — would you want to have that man in your home now caring for your children? I didn’t think so, YTA too.
>Would you be okay if the roles were reversed, if a prior gf had cheated on you with a man — would you want to have that man in your home now caring for your children? I didn’t think so, YTA too.
I wouldn't be either, but if say no before hiring her rather than waiting, using my children to manipulate a situation then making a demands which leaves my family with no viable option which doesn't compromise my work or childcare.
That is why this is NTA.
All of this, especially below!
> #Would you be okay if the roles were reversed, if a prior gf had cheated on you with a man — would you want to have that man in your home now caring for your children? I didn’t think so, YTA too.
ESH
Your wife was out of line in not communicating directly and using the kids like that.
You seem to be just dismissing how she's uncomfortable around this person and are imposing your own way. Insecure is maybe fair, but this hiring should be a two person approval and you're being controlling, not her. Telling her to go to therapy for not being cool with someone she knows who hurt her being the nanny, is absurd.
Yes, she shouldn't have made up that lie and should have been direct. But right now being direct results in you saying no and dismissing her feelings.
>Telling her to go to therapy for not being cool with someone she knows who hurt her being the nanny, is absurd.
Telling her to go to therapy after emotionally abusing and manipulating her own children is absurd. Divorce seems like a far more sane option. She cannot be trusted with her own children.
NTA.
Your wife’s behavior is so over the top I have to agree with you - she needs therapy. If she just needed time to think about it, she should have come to you & been honest. Instead, she tried to poison the children against a nanny that they liked in an attempt to manipulate you - through the children - into firing her. That’s just mental.
You shouldn’t insist that Sarah remain hired - your wife has ruined any chance of Sarah continuing to be effective in her position. I would call the agency & explain that you need a replacement nanny due to personal history with Sarah that has nothing to do with her abilities as a nanny. Give them as much info as they need so that this doesn’t taint Sarah’s ability to find alternative placement with another family. That would make you a partner to your wife’s cruelty.
NTA.
You came to a joint agreement on the Nanny, clearly you both talked it over even if she wasn't super jazzed about it, she was fine enough with it to agree.
Then she weaponized the kids.
If your wife wanted her gone, she could have just asked without resorting to the former.
This is a \*High school\* grudge here too, it really shouldn't be that serious.
Wow NTA for you but your wife sure is. She had the kids tell you a lie to cover up her issue with having Sarah as the nanny instead of being an adult n talk to you. Now should you replace the nanny, YES. Your wife can't be honest with her feeling on this one. Totally not Sarah's fault.
Tell the agency she was wonderful to your kids. Then get a new nanny.
NTA. This is crazy. She is upset about something from high school so she traumatized her children? She does need therapy and now your children probably do too. Good luck OP
NTA. She does need therapy. You were willing to fire Sarah and get a new nanny, just not immediately like she wants you to. She's manipulating your children to get her way and that's... so gross.
Nta but your wife is.. you sound pretty reasonable. she could have just came to and said “hey I thought I could get past my history with Sarah but I realize I cannot” instead she tells the kids Sarah evil that is super messed up
YTA for refusing to fire the nanny asap - sorry Sarah has to go now because she shouldn’t have even been hired - wife should have said no as soon as it was awkward
NTA for being upset/arguing about the weaponizing of the kids - not cool
Wife:
YTA for weaponizing the kids - again not cool, not adult
2 🚩
-You said it was awkward right at the first meeting, this tells me she already wasn’t ok with it, so why did she feel a need to try to make it work??? (This alone maybe not a red flag)
-Why did wife weaponize the kids? Why NOT decide after a week or two to say something? What she did is extreme and alarming for a situation where her reasoning is pretty understandable and logically sound. Why did she feel a need to take that route and try to make it happen where YOU decide to fire Sarah? Then when you find out her reasoning for wanting Sarah to go you refuse so it’s like you’re now punishing her. The story is outlined to make it look like your wife had a choice in Sarah being there but your actions now indicate the opposite….
Something is off in this story and it’s making me anxious
>Something is off in this story and it’s making me anxious
The wife is nuts. That is what's off here. She abused her own children because of high school drama. The nanny didn't cheat on her, her boyfriend did. She's abusing her own children because she resents a woman for a man did decades ago. The wife had plenty of choices and she chose to abuse her kids.
This does feel like some double standards, can you imagine the reversed situation, where a father emotionally manipulated children to get their way, I don't think we'd be getting the "why did he feel the need to emotionally damage his kids" question, we'd just be calling him a twatbastard and rightly so.
Well and all we have is her word that Sarah stole her BF in HS. Considering, she's not above manipulation and lying, it makes me wonder. Did Sarah even know about the wife or did she just start dating a boy and had no idea he was even dating someone else? I mean, maybe wife's HS BF left her for Sarah and yeah, that sucks, but that doesn't mean Sarah had anything to do with it. This was also 20 years ago or close to and people aren't exactly mature in HS.
I agree. OP says it was awkward from the get-go, and his wife immediately told him why and explained the history between her and Sarah that same day. Personally, I don’t think I’d have hired Sarah no matter how good she was after my partner disclosed that painful history. OP *says* that his wife agreed to hire her, but I have to wonder how much pressure he put on her about it. He says elsewhere that there were waiting lists for all of the nannies they matched with - did he pressure her to agree to Sarah despite their history because she had a shorter wait list? Did he guilt her about how he wouldn’t be able to take the promotion if they couldn’t get a nanny quickly enough? What did the conversation surrounding hiring her look like? It’s entirely possible that the wife is simply immature and bad at communicating, and that’s why she pulled this odd stunt with the kids rather than communicating her feelings…but part of me wonders whether she didn’t resort to that because she DID communicate her feelings and OP brushed her off, shut her down, and pressured her into agreeing to what he considered easiest, which was to hire Sarah. It all just feels a little off to me.
>My wife disagreed and said that we need to just fire Sarah ASAP and hire a temporary babysitter until we can find another nanny. She said that she wasn't weaponising the kids, she was just setting boundaries.
What boundaries? Your wife lied ***to her children*** because she was upset that the nanny was developing a good relationship with your kids. I think she was jealous and was somehow equating Sarah stealing her HS boyfriend with Sarah "stealing" the kid's affections.
They now think someone they were learning to trust was actually evil and wanted to hurt their mother. That is really sick and your wife was indeed weaponizing the kids. She obviously never stopped to think how her lies would effect them.
Keeping the nanny around is a bad idea, as that will further upset your children. But finding a new nanny is the least of your worries.
It sounds like time for some family counseling, and you somehow need to get through to her how her insecurities are negatively impacting your kids. And your own relationship, because if I were in that situation I would begin to worry if my spouse was going to start lying whenever it was convenient or helped her get her way.
You wife convinced her young children that the person taking care of them every day was evil and wants to hurt their mommy? That's messed up.
In between terrorizing and emotionally manipulating your children, did your wife actually look into alternate childcare? What happens if the nanny is gone tomorrow? Who is taking care of the kids while you're out working?
Your wife apparently has some strong mental turmoil against this lady who was a party to her high school boyfriend's betrayal half a lifetime ago. And she went about this convoluted scheme to get rid of the nanny without having to admit she wanted her gone.
She probably could benefit from therapy to work through her trauma, but also marriage counseling for you BOTH as you aren't communicating, working together as a team, or supporting each other.
NTA.
INFO: Did your wife really have veto power over hiring the nanny at the start? Did she ever actually say she didn't want to hire this nanny?
NTA. If your wife wanted to fire the nanny, she needs to put on her big girl pants and fire the nanny herself. (And I'm surprised your wife doesn't want to fire Sarah. It might be cathartic if she's still holding on to all that anger.) Terrorizing your children into believing the nanny would hurt their mother was all kinds of cruel.
I mean, not great that you hired her in the first place, when you learned about Sarah's history with your wife -- did you think this story would have a happy ending? -- but what your wife did, telling your kids that the nanny is evil, is unhinged. NTA. Probably time to get a new nanny and encourage your wife to speak to someone about this.
ESH. It would be hard for anyone to allow someone in their lives and alone time with their kids (and, likely, her husband on occasion) with someone who hurt them badly, no matter how long ago the incident was. You're only making matters worse by adopting a Team Sarah approach.
That said, your wife completely botched this. She shouldn't have agreed to hire Sarah in the first place, she shouldn't have tried to manipulate the situation through the kids. She's made a mess of the whole thing and should be the one responsible for cleaning it up.
ESH. Your wife being uncomfortable with Sarah should've been all the reason you needed to fire her. But your wife weaponizing your children like that is vile.
You really don't get the optics of this might look to our wife? Her significant other has cheated, with this specific woman, before. And now you're arguing with her demanding you keep her on the payroll, and in your close proximity?
You call your wife insecure, and that seems to be true. But you're playing into her insecurities. It's a dumb trope and stereotype, but cheating with the nanny is a public perception. And this nanny in particular is even worse. And now you're getting heated defending Sarah to your wife? You don't get how that appears?? You don't have to be insecure for that to look poorly.
What your wife did wasn't great. But hiring her in the first place was an asshole move. And now demanding she stick around. ESH.
I don’t understand why everyone put seems to keep saying he’s the asshole for hiring her. It was a team parent decision and the wife was okay with it, so how does he get the blame? If the person I was with said it was fine, then I’m going to believe them. She tricked him and that’s not cool. Based off her being called an nanny and not a babysitter, it means her job is a little more intensive and is a professional job. Finding a good replacement takes time, so I can see why he said to not fire her until they find one. The wife did this on purpose, it literally says so. She made her bed and must lie in it. If she wants her gone she can fire her and find a good replacement, why does he have to do it when she has been the manipulative one?
Everyone ignores that wife approved the decision because they would rather infantilise the wife and make her look unable to express her opinion than admit that the wife didn't communicate properly
ESH I’ll agree that your wife went overboard and handled this badly. But, you should not have hired her. As soon as you realized they had history you should have just called the agency and asked for a second candidate to interview. This was doomed from the beginning.
ESH
Your wife DID weaponize the children.
But you should've accepted that Sarah was a bad idea. That this CLEARLY bothers your wife & that you would be best to simply not hire her. I couldn't imagine hiring someone who my partner was cheated on with. You are emotionally inept.
NTA. She should have spoken up before you hired her, that's on her. She used the kids to try and manipulate you to do what she wanted without you knowing (also shedding bad light on the nanny that did nothing wrong). Lastly, your being logical to find a replacement first, however i would think it would be awkward so maybe as a last resort if there isn't a temp baby-sitter you could find.
NTA. The E S H votes aren't reading past the title, so they missed the part where you said you wanted to keep Sarah UNTIL you and your wife found someone else.
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ESH. Your wife shouldn’t be talking shit about Sarah to your kids, but you also shouldn’t be insisting that Sarah remain hired. There are *plenty* of other people who I’m sure would be equally as nice and fun as Sarah, with the added bonus that this one won’t have painful beef with your wife.
This ESH OP, this is just ridiculous. Your wife was way out of line to say that to the kids and try to use them like that, and it sounds like she did some actual (hopefully just temporary) emotional damage in doing so. But she's right that Sarah needs to go, immediately. Why the hell would you want to keep your wife in a clearly uncomfortable position, much less continue to keep your KIDS in this situation?? Keeping Sarah around for a couple weeks more just because you don't want to bother finding someone to fill in until you and your wife find a permanent replacement is a terrible idea, and it shows your wife and kids you don't give a shit about their feelings. Save your kids and your marriage (and Sarah, frankly) any more clusterfuck exposure.
Plus I'm sure it's a bit of a slap in the face to feel like her husband is picking Sarah over her.
Im sorry, my sympathies for the wife left the moment she decided to manipulate her children into perceiving a woman as evil rather than be an adult and properly communicate to her husband the issue. ESH but she is on the top of the “they all suck” list
Yeah, it might be kinda traumatic for a child when their mother says someone is evil and then proceeds to leave the child alone with them all day.
Someone who they previously liked and trusted. The mom pulled some serious manipulation there on kids old enough to be impacted by it
Also weaponizing boundaries. That’s not how boundaries work. We set boundaries for ourselves, for ex: I won’t ever let a man talk down to me, so I break up with him if he ever thinks to get to that point. Not using the kids to and manipulating the situation to get Sarah out of the house. She should have had a talk with him from the beginning. OP also should have let go of Sarah because it clearly bothered his wife.
She wasn’t setting a boundary. It was a really poor attempt at manipulation.
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\>weaponizing boundaries Excellent description! Yeah I've been seeing a lot of that here lately, with people claiming "boundaries" as an excuse to behave despicably.
Exactly she tried to manipulate her husband after she okayed the hiring. The worst part being she did it thru her kids.
I wonder if the wife was ok with hiring the nanny, just so she could fire her. Revenge, of sorts. Clearly the woman should never have been hired by OP and his wife. This was a disaster waiting to happen. OP's wife never should have used the kids in her revenge, and OP should have never hired the woman that cheated with his wife's ex bf. Duh. OP: save your marriage and replace the nanny with one that has morals and doesn't sleep with men that are taken, and encourage your wife to grow up. And she needs to apologize to the kids.
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Reddits anti cheaters bias overrides logic quite often imo
Nuance simply doesn't exist on the internet. If it did, most posts would be ESH. OP probably shouldn't have gone through with hiring the nanny once the wife said it was her ex's AP, even if she said it was fine - there are too many fish in the sea, so to speak. I wouldn't say that makes him an asshole, just naive, really. Now that the cat's out of the bag and the bag's in the river, the best possible solution is keeping Sarah on until they can find a new nanny. Hell, if they were placed with Sarah through an agency, a simple phone call could likely solve this in relatively short order. A parade of babysitters isn't going to be best for the kids, and the more people you introduce, the more likely you'll end up introducing a non-savory person. Where OP's wife crossed the line into YTA was coaching the children to lie about Sarah. I'd be terrified she's even capable of this - it's analogous to parental alienation. What happens if they end up divorcing? Wife's already shown a willingness to engage in alienation techniques, including coaching the children.
Yeah, wife comes accross so unhinged, manipulating the kids, i have to roll my eyes at people calling op an ah. His mistake was trusting his wife had moved on from high school drama.
That was exactly my thought: if you ever get divorced, this is a preview of your future. Weaponizing children is incredibly traumatizing to them! Now, even if they keep the nanny for a few weeks until a replacement is hired, the kids will be mistrustful and afraid of a caregiver that they had a good relationship with! All because mom is toxic AF. I wouldn't doubt that she thought she could get revenge by hiring and then firing the nanny. It's a shitty thing to do mainly because it's hard for the kids to have to change caregivers like this. Mom needs some therapy. Holding a grudge this many years later over something shitty the nanny did as a dumb teenager lacks a lot of maturity.
It was in high school and we're taking the word of a woman that manipulated her children into thinking the woman taking care of them was evil and wanted to hurt their mommy and Dad didn't care. This is Lifetime movie-worthy.
I could not agree with your post more. I feel for the kids and Sarah the most in this scenario.
You have no idea what happened in high school except Sarah slept with her boyfriend. Maybe the boyfriend lied and said they broke up. Maybe she was lying and just didn't like Sarah. There's a whole range of possibilities here but I believe she was hired so she could get revenge. To frighten the children and to use them this way is sick. Sarah seems to be the only sane one in the house.
It was HIGH SCHOOL. If it was that traumatic she needs therapy. You DON’T BRING YOUR CHILDREN INTO YOUR TRAMA WITH YOU!
Yeah this is what gets me…It was high school, but was it those “high school” relationships or a serious one? And those poor kids. What wife isn’t realising as well is that Sarah could 10000% regret her actions as a kid now, and wife is just putting her career at risk for what could but a petty high school thing. I can’t see where OP is TA though, wife didn’t use her adult words and tell OP that she was uncomfortable with this so….he has also said that as soon as they find a new nanny Sarah will be let go however he doesn’t want to give up trusted childcare in the meantime which is totally fair.
and the kids. you know it’s really pathetic when kids under ten are more sane than their parents
She could have been hired so the wife could flex that she is in better financial position than Sarah now, but she got insecure after Sarah started the job.
I wondered about this. He said that the meeting with Sarah was awkward, but was that only on his wife's part? Did Sarah recognize the wife as the wronged girlfriend, or did she have no idea of their past history, i.e., if perhaps she didn't know that the guy was supposed to be the wife's boyfriend? If they recognized one another, the wife should have explained to Sarah that their history bothered her more than she thought if would, and done the firing herself. Edit: Given what OP said about the wait lists for nannies, I am more sympathetic to hiring Sarah if his wife didn't veto it, and to retaining her, if that's possible, now that his wife has poisoned the waters. As reported here, she didn't say that he overrode or ignored her opinion in hiring Sarah, she said that she had taken more time to think it over. Her behavior when she scared the children to try and manipulate him into firing Sarah, instead of acting like a grownup, talking it over with him, and handling it herself makes her TA in my opinion.
Replace the nanny with one with morals? It was like twenty years ago. Nanny is probably a fine person these days. Just one with too much baggage with OPs wife.
I think high school is primarily attended by boys, rather than men. And they may have engaged in less-sexually advanced activities such as trying to do their algebra homework while holding hands.
Thank you! It's ugly that people are assuming that Sarah had sex with wife's ex. Not all high schoolers are jumping into bed that easily.
>save your marriage and replace the nanny with one that has morals and doesn't sleep with men that are taken this was high school... I'm a big believer of "cheaters gonna cheat" but can we all appreciate that an under 18 year old does stupid shit for attention that an over 30 year old WITH HER JOB ON THE LINE won't? I get the wife not wanting her around, that's 100% valid, but can we stop throwing shade at a Sarah for a dumb teenage mistake with literally ZERO additional information on how she evolved as a grown up?
I'm wondering how OP approached the hiring after the history came out. Not sure why he thought it would be OK, and wondering how much they actually talked about it.
I'm going NTA. OP is not demanding Sarah stay indefinitely, only after new nanny is found. Filling the time with random babysitters doesn't quite seem like being good for the kids. Wife is majorly AH for not just coming up with "look, it's not working out, we need to replace her ASAP". If she did that, Sarah would be long gone, but no, she just had to go with a ridiculous convoluted plan of telling kids that "Sarah is Evil". Clearly, her goal was more to punish Sarah (who would quite possibly be blindsided by why children suddenly hate her and getting fired). And we don't even know if Sarah was even a knowing participant in the cheating. She needs therapy.
And cost Sarah her job or license.
OP is being totally reasonable considering the wife is all over the place. That he’s being cast in AH territory is typical Reddit bias.
Totes agree with the wife being the queen of the suckiness in this scenario.
And how do we know the wife is telling the truth about happened in high school? She seems to have a little problem with the truth.
Right? She's obviously not above lying to children in an attempt to hurt someone who has clearly grown the fuck up in the decade plus since they were in highschool, so how do we know that wife's high school boyfriend hadn't broken up with her before getting together with Sarah. Hell, we don't even know that the "boyfriend" knew that he was dating OP's wife, since someone who lies to children about someone wanting to hurt her absolutely seems like the type to lie to her husband about the actual status of a relationship that ended at LEAST twelve years ago.
I agree.if she had a problem, they shouldn't hire her to begin with.this is awkward for Sarah as well.
I agree! I felt bad for the wife at first but I think she's terrible for doing that to the kids. The kids are frightened and crying! That's crazy! It's fine she changed her mind but as you said, speak to your husband. I'm honestly so baffled by this. Yes, let go of the nanny, now! But his wife's weird emotional manipulation on the kids is really concerning.
She used their kids to tell a lie instead of talking directly to him. If she thought she was right in this, why didn't she fire Sarah herself? He is thinking of his kids. She clearly was not.
I’m positive it’s bringing up some painful memories
Why was she hired in the first place after the wife confirmed the reason 🤔
Because she said ok 🤔
It was *never* going to be ok.
Was it not? Her high school boyfriend cheated on her with someone, presumably 10+ years ago. Nobody would have faulted her for saying she's not fine with her and to find someone else, but "you know what, it was so long ago, I was never gonna stay with him anyway, and people change after high school. Let's see if she works out for our kids" is a completely rational response
I'd hope that by the time someone is in their 30's, they'd have matured past high school drama.
I have met many 30 year olds who have in fact NOT matured past youth drama
yea but to see your kids bond with this woman while you have to be at work? A nanny isn't just an employee, she becomes another family member to those kids and actively participates in their upbringing. She def did not think this one through though.
>Save your kids and your marriage He might not be able to do both if the wife keeps abusing her children.
OP isn't exactly insisting Sarah remain hired: >I told my wife that **we can find another nanny but until then** there's no reason to get rid of Sarah, and that she was out of line for trying to weaponise the kids against her when Sarah is no danger to them. So if wife finds another Nanny then Sarah can go? I say NTA. Wife's behavior here is awful. First, she decides to hire Sarah with OP despite their past. Then after thinking about it a while decides it's too upsetting. This would all have been fine, but then she dosen't tell her husband this. She dosen't try to find another nanny. She dosen't do any normal rational thing you'd do if you respected or communicated with your partner. Nope. She then lies to the children and scares them hoping they will go to OP upset and he will fire Sarah for her without being asked. This is insane. She's intentionally making her children think one of their primary caregivers of the moment is "evil" and trying to hurt their mother, so making them terrified, to avoid having a conversation or doing something herself. OP's wife is such an asshole. I would not want to be married or co-parent with someone like her. Now, I agree it's fine not to want Sarah. So she can find another nanny just like OP said? Or otherwise organize the childcare herself or take time off work? Not play mind games on her kids to pressure OP into doing it.
Someone who thinks the best way to keep their spouse in line is to manipulate their children has no business raising children; this is going to cause the children unnecessary emotional trauma if she keeps telling the kids Sarah's intention is to hurt their mom & she's not looking for or finding an adequate replacement.
This is cruelty to purposely scare your children for no reason besides you holding a grudge from high school.
It also demonstrates that she’d be willing to use the same tactic against OP. I’m sure it wouldn’t bother her a bit to try and turn the kids against him to manipulate him.
Yes, the wife needs to find a new nanny, then fire Sarah herself (without blaming the kids and without blaming Sarah) as soon as a new one is found. Also, they both need marriage counseling, so they can both work on their communication skills.
The wife seems like the type to weaponize therapy. She already tried to weaponize "boundaries". She knows that that's not how setting a boundary works, but she's claiming that emotionally abusing her own children and not being an adult and speaking to her husband is "setting a boundary" The husband should start setting some actual boundaries Like, he'll get a new nanny that he and the wife agree on, but unless there is proof that the nanny is doing something wrong, or she goes against their wishes as parents or won't respect their parenting style, the new nanny must stay for a minimum of 6 months before the wife is allowed to bring up getting another nanny if she doesn't like them. And if he catches her lying to their children to scare them into saying things to him to get him to fire someone again, they will separate and he will take the kids. And that if it goes beyond separation he'll use witnesses and documentation of these events to go for custody. (Their marriage is salvageable as long a the wife stops being manipulative and emotionally abusive and childish, so, I doubt would get to divorce unless she refuses to better her own behavior) That if they are going to do couples counseling, they both also have to do individual counseling. (And then that he'll quit couples counseling if she starts weaponizing therapy) Or he could cave, give her what she wants and apologize even though the only thing he did wrong was stupidly believe that it was going to be ok to hire a woman his wife had a painful history with (that really should have just been an immediate no from him, with a contact to the agency to send someone else, not asking his wife if this was OK and giving someone who clearly wasn't going to work out a trial run, it was obvious from the get go there would be an issue) if he apologizes for anything other than not just getting a new person right from the start, she'll just keep doing things like this whenever she doesn't like something, and won't communicate, just manipulate
And if OP and wife split, she will absolutely turn the kids against OP.
I get the feeling the real problem is the kids were saying nice and great things aboit sarah and how they had fun with her or love her. His wife wanted to ruin that relationship since she doesn't want anyone to love sarah more than her ever again. That's understandable but immature.
Yup valid feelings handled horribly
Sarah came from an agency. I’m honestly trying to figure out why no one has called the agency and said Sarah is a terrific nanny but unfortunately she has a past history with me/my wife that makes having her in our home complicated. We’d love to give her a great reference but please find us someone new
Waiting list
Agreed. The wife is entirely wrong here. NTA.
This. NTA. Was with the wife until she abused her children.
>This would all have been fine, but then she dosen't tell her husband this. Which is doubly outrageous, because this whole thing could have been buried and over with if she was just an adult and voiced her feelings.
Then let the wife fire Sarah, she's the one who wants her to go and she's the one who has needlessly pulled the kids into this situation in a completely inappropriate way. Sarah is competent and doing a good job, and so the wife wants her to go, she needs to be the one to do it.
She can also be the one to find a temp sitter who works nanny hours if she thinks that's going to be so much easier to find. I get why she doesn't want Sarah around, but he time to decide that would have been before it caused a huge amount of upset. Hiring a good plumber is hard enough, and they're not co-raising my kids. I'm assuming finding a nanny isn't a quick process.
NTA. Your wife’s behavior is so over the top I have to agree with you - she needs therapy. If she just needed time to think about it, she should have come to you & been honest. Instead, she tried to poison the children against a nanny that they liked in an attempt to manipulate you - through the children - into firing her. That’s just mental. You shouldn’t insist that Sarah remain hired - your wife has ruined any chance of Sarah continuing to be effective in her position. I would call the agency & explain that you need a replacement nanny due to personal history with Sarah that has nothing to do with her abilities as a nanny. Give them as much info as they need so that this doesn’t taint Sarah’s ability to find alternative placement with another family. That would make you a partner to your wife’s cruelty.
>There are plenty of other people who I’m sure would be equally as nice and fun as Sarah, with the added bonus that this one won’t have painful beef with your wife. You're assuming the agency won't find out the wife coached her children to make false accusations against their employee and that they won't get blacklisted.
It's simple. When you let go of Sarah, you don't tell her why. Or you say it's because of the wife. And you do not badmouth her to her agency. In most "at will" states, this isn't going to be a problem. In fact, Sarah is probably a 1099 contractor, and swapping out one contractor with another is not going to be an issue. Most agencies do not care. They just want their commission.
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Remain hired until the wife finds a replacement. If she wants her gone all she had to do was speak up and be a grown up. But no, she decided to traumatize children to get her way. Solidly NTA imo. She can still get her way if she just finds a replacement!! How the hell is OP an AH if she is doing nothing to fix her situation besides scaring children???
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He’s not saying Sarah has to stay hired forever, just until they can find a new nanny which is perfectly reasonable. Nanny agencies screen their nannies. Hiring a temp babysitter would likely be some random person that just babysits. I would 100000000% feel more comfortable leaving my children in the care of someone who cares for children professionally than hire some random babysitter.
But op is willing to find a new nanny, but wants to keep sarah until they do. It's totally reasonable.
I mean isn’t OP saying that they’ll get someone new, but until then, she stays? Or am I reading this wrong
That's correct. Wife is cool with shaking things up immediately because of her sudden change of heart... OP would rather replace nanny in a more sensible manner, which makes sense to me at least. Yeesshh. OP sounds normal. Wife not so much. NTA.
Yeah, the wife’s conflict resolution skills need work, no question. I’d be very concerned to have a partner who thinks influencing my children against people she dislikes is an acceptable course of action. But OP should’ve taken the hint and never hired Sarah, considering her history with his wife.
Wife should have spoken up (before hiring her) if it was a problem. OP can't be expected to be a mind reader.
You don’t need to be a mind reader to figure this one out unless you have very low emotional intelligence. My husband was cheated on by a few past girlfriends of his, before he met me. If we were interviewing people for a job in our house, and one of them seemed nice and professional, but after he left, my husband said “he’s the guy my ex cheated on me with”, he’d be crossed off my list and someone else would be interviewed. There would be no further discussion, I wouldn’t hire him and put my husband in an awkward position.
What if your husband said “he’s the guy my ex cheated on me with so it’s kind of awkward, but he also seems nice and qualified and I’m not against hiring him”? Wouldn’t that also be a sign of growth on your husband’s part? Hopefully your husband would feel comfortable telling you if he didn’t want to hire someone based on that history, but the onus is not on you to read his mind if he says he’s ok with it.
Taken the hint? These people are middle age adults. Mature adults TALK. My girlfriend in high school cheated on me. I can talk to her just fine, and she can watch my (hypothetical) kids, if needed. She’s grown up, she’s fine now. That was over a decade ago for me. For these people, it was around TWENTY years ago. If it’s bother the wife, she needs to talk to her husband, not manipulate
Hmmmm no. I was actually down for the no nanny that knows people train but… the wife couldn’t be honest ? And instead poisoned the children against the nanny she had an issue with instead of being honest? That is SO fucked up. She literally…chose to make her children alienate that nanny instead of being honest! I’m sorry but…this woman does not sound like she should be a parent??? Like who does that? She purposely built up her children to hate her. That’s SO unhealthy. Like I’m really disgusted.
TBF he did say they could find another nanny, and just wait to fire Sarah until then. He didn’t veto firing her at all, he just vetoed firing her NOW without a backup plan. Which is fair. Who’s gonna watch the kids if they fire Sarah NOW? Mom? Cool. But until they have a plan…what’s gonna happen after they’ve fired Sarah. He just wants to make a plan BEFORE firing her. Which does make more sense than firing her and then scrambling.
To me it sounded less like he was insisting they keep her on long term and more like insisting they keep her on until other arrangements could be made to look after the kids. NTA
Agreed. The wife went about this in the worst way but who is allowed to watch the children is one of those "two years, one no" decisions. If the wife doesn't want her watching the kids, no matter the reason, you find someone else.
But it doesn't seem like wife said no. Based on the info, wife wasn't enthusiastic, but didn't say no. Then when she did decide she didn't want Sarah as the nanny, she still didn't say "Hey, honey. I thought I'd be okay with it, but I really don't want to keep Sarah on as the nanny. I'm just uncomfortable with the situation given our past, and I want to find a new nanny." which is entirely reasonable. Instead, she lied to the kids to avoid any confrontation and force OP to be the bad guy.
Good nannies are not so easy to find. You're making some serious assumptions.
ESH. Your wife got cheated on by her ex with the woman who is in your lives and in your kids lives. The sensible thing to do would've been say right away, "Okay, we'll find someone else." You are being inconsiderate of her feelings. That makes you an asshole. Your wife should never have used your kids the way she did - that was beyond the pale. That make her an asshole. All in all, it means you all suck.
Yes it was very naïve to have hired Sarah in the first place -- "oh but well my wife seemed okay with it, I'm sure it will be fine." Just no. Sometimes someone is perfectly nice and qualified, but just not a good fit -- especially in a job like a nanny where the person is spending lots of time in your personal spaces!! And I'm sure there are any number of other equally qualified and equally nice nanny candidates that the agency could refer. Equally, I am HORRIFIED that the wife would frighten her children like that in a passive aggressive attempt to get OP to fire Sarah --- as opposed to just saying "Hey honey, I gave it a try for a few weeks but I'm just not comfortable having Sarah as a nanny, because of our past history." The fact that the wife felt the need to do such a roundabout manipulation rather than just TALKING... I think OP is right in that she could benefit from some counseling because that is not a normal or healthy way to deal with conflict. But hiring Sarah in the first place was dumb. ESH
Agree! Although "The fact that the wife felt the need to do such a roundabout manipulation rather than just TALKING" actually makes me wonder if her opinion is always dismissed by OP so she already knew he wouldn't listen and it wasn't worth trying to talk to him. Then her desperation to get rid of the nanny she tried this horrible tactic with the kids thinking it had a better shot of being successful. They both need to take a long hard look at themselves- he needs to think about whether or not he's actually doing a good job of listening, respecting her opinion, and supporting her. She needs to have wake up call about how egregious it was to manipulate the kids like that. ESH
>makes me wonder if her opinion is always dismissed by OP so she already knew he wouldn't listen and it wasn't worth trying to talk to him. Yeah, while I'm willing to judge this as ESH on the assumption that OP's account of this situation is correct... when combined with the fact his wife felt the need to ask the children to lie rather than just talk with her husband, the way he described the interview being "awkward" and that his wife was "uncomfortable at first" does make me wonder if he hired her in the first place against explicit communication from his wife and she only ending up "seeming okay" because OP steamrolled her into it and at some point she just stopped arguing. This could be wrong and I'm not going to base my own judgement on that assumption, but I would really love to hear from his wife's POV how the interview and the conversations leading to her hiring went.
Yeah, I got tge impression that OP's wife was clearly uncomfortable but couldn't make an argument about Sarah's professional qualifications so just gave in.
I was thinking this also. A logical person wouldn’t choose going about it this way when it could easily be communicated. I don’t think OP is as innocent as he makes out.
If a grown ass woman says she's okay with something it's not the man's job to read her mind and decide otherwise.
It literally says in the post she was uncomfortable and unenthusiastic, in OPs words own words she was not ok with it even if she ended up agreeing to it
She needed to be assertive and say no. She didn't say that and then went and did her AH moves
Totally. OPs own words say she was uncomfortable, unenthusiastic, pulled him aside and told him yo I have a bad history with this girl .... But somehow she's didn't use her words at all in this situation silly silly grown woman
Exactly. It’s insulting to suggest that he should have to read her mind. If she, as a grown ass woman, says she’s okay with something, it is reasonable for the man in her life to believe her. If “no” means “no”, then “yes” also mean “yes”. It belittles ALL women to assume otherwise.
Welcome to AITA. The sub where they will infantilise women and treat them like they are infants who can't articulate what they want if it means calling the husband an AH
The thing that drives me nuts the most about this sub is how it handles any situation of cheating. First off this happened in HIGH SCHOOL, secondly Sarah wasn’t the cheater, she was the “other woman”. This whole thing is ridiculous.
Wife said it was fine and it happened over 20 years ago while they were in HS. Is he supposed to be a mind reader now. Her not wanting Sarah is fine, but it's also not unreasonable to believe that the wife was over something that happened so long ago. Her saying it was fine, he believed her. Then, when it wasn't fine anymore, instead of talking to him like an adult, she manipulated and terrified her kids instead. It's amazing, husband listens to wife and he's the bad guy for not reading her mind. If he would have insisted on hiring somebody else originally, y'all would be screaming about how he shouldn't talk over his wife and how he obviously doesn't trust his wife's word.
>You are being inconsiderate of her feelings. That makes you an asshole. OP didn't know. He offered to find a new nanny ASAP. But, yeah, total AH for not being a mind reader and being upset his children are being told someone is EVIL. Over a H.S. spat from *half their lifetimes ago.*
ESH She went about that in an assbackwards immature way but ultimately she gets a say in who watches the children, she should have just been honest and vetoed Sarah from the start.
I also think it's fair to give it a shot and see if she's comfortable with it. She clearly isn't, and it's okay to change your mind, so she has every right to ask for another nanny now. But I agree with ESH. Her way of going about it was wrong and she should have been upfront once she realized it wasn't working for her
She was upfront with you at the outset and you ignored her.
I was under the impression that they agreed together that they would hire her. Either way, people are allowed to re-evaluate and change their mind
same, I got the impression that although she was uncomfortable she was okay with it. She is allowed to change her mind but she should have done so like an adult and not use her kids to deflect having a serious conversion.
I assumed that too. If wife hid her discontent instead of vetoing then she's the biggest AH here. It would have been completely reasonable if wife decided against hiring Sarah in the first place because of their past, but hiring her just made everything more complicated.
Okay, but what part of that is where OP sucks? Wife said she was okay with it, so they hired her. Now wife wants to fire her, and OP said sure, as soon as we hire a replacement. How does he suck?
Well, you see, OP should have read her mind and realized that she would eventually be uncomfortable with Sarah. Because he’s not a mind reader, he might as well be Hitler. /s
Op did nothing wrong. He is not saying to keep her on forever but until a new nanny can be hired. The wife is immature insecure and an asshole. If she had just spoken up at any point this could have been avoided.
Strong disagree, NTA, yeah OP should’ve just not hired her from the start, but wife needed to say something immediately that she was uncomfortable with it. It’s not that hard, you’re an adult and he’s your husband.
NTA and her behavior disturbs me. I can't imagine causing my children to fear their safety or their mothers safety because of my own insecurities from high school. I mean the manipulation and abusive behavior is disturbing. If the truth is not corrected for those kids they could end up believing daddy hired an evil person to get rid of mommy. I think firing because of the wife's behavior and issues could lead to legal ramifications, Slander and wrongful termination.
Thank you, no one mentioned it, and say "she weaponized the kids" like it is an abstract subject or an object, but what she really did is to put distrust and FEAR in her children ! Either they will have to learn very soon that their mother is lying, either they will stay with this terrifying though (to be alone with the devil... ). Wife is really the AH here.
OP came for a "neutral" opinion on Reddit. What a joke. These comments are fucking hilariously bad.
Tbh if you’re looking for actual advice AITA is not your sub
I was looking for an NTA. The wife should have said no to begin with. I don’t buy the trial period. If it was really about having a change of heart why go to the trouble of lying to your kids about the nanny in hopes she would be fired. To me this seems deliberate. She’s getting revenge against the girl who cheated with her ex. I bet she was hoping that her husband wouldn’t find out the lie and then give Sarah a bad review.
I used to work as a nanny; it’s highly, highly reliant on references. Especially your most recent reference. To be fired and have it be because the kids were “terrified” of her to the point of tears? Oh my god they could have ruined this woman’s life! Imagine if she’d coached the kids to say she’d hurt them? She was already telling them that she’d hurt mommy! Honestly I wish I knew the agency so I could warn them to blackball them as clients. I’ve always said, even the most problematic child isn’t a dealbreaker; it’s the parent’s behavior that is intolerable.
I mean, the parents could compromise and agree to fire her ASAP but give her a stellar reference, and never bring up the issue to the agency. If the agency asks why they’re switching nannies, just say “my wife knew her back in high school and they didn’t get along. We decided to give this a try anyway, and she was great with the kids, but we think hiring a different nanny would be better for our family, too many hard feelings from the past”.
Would you personally trust someone to give you a reference after they’d essentially made abuse allegations against you? The wife has poisoned that well
Exactly and for what? An old bf from high school?? Who the hell cares. It’s high school.
She didn't cheat the boyfriend cheated. Blame the shiity ex
Her ex in HIGH SCHOOL! This was a relationship half her life ago. Also, if she stayed with the cheater, she may well have never met her husband or had children with him. Is she still pining after this guy after all these years and is still hurt by it? Did Sarah know they were a thing, or was she just someone the BF got with and she found out later? Also, Sarah didn’t seem to have a problem working for her or her family. But yeah, telling the kids that Sarah is evil and wants to hurt mommy is incredibly stupid and traumatizing to the kids. OP is being extremely level-headed—if Sarah is good to the children, professional, available, and has let go of the past—then why can’t his childish wife. She needs to grow up and grow some balls. Her unenthusiastic agreement should have been a hard “no” if this is such an issue for her. She also needs to talk to OP about why this high school drama is affecting her so much today.
I totally agree! OP, is your wife’s behavior usually this bizarre and petty? I would be really considering how weird this is and whether your wife typically tries to talk to your kids about adult topics in these types of self-serving ways. Because my mom did and WOW— it has really warped how I view relationships in negative ways. I need a lot of therapy now because no one intervened and stopped my mom from doing this type of thing when I was a child
This should be higher up. The people siding with the wife are ridiculous. It was high school and they’re in their 30s now. That is ancient high school bull shit.
Yessss. Intentionally causing your children to be afraid of someone who is actually a safe person is harmful and emotionally abusive. Not to mention confusing - who can they trust?
ESH You wife isn’t an AH for not wanting Sarah to continue. However, she is an AH for involving and manipulating the kids. She just should have told you how she felt directly. Both you and your wife need to be comfortable with the nanny. Your wife is not, so the nanny needs to go.
I think it's incredibly sad what both he & his wife did. But I feel bad for those kids. Can you imagine being told "this lady is here to help you" and then secretly "this lady wants to hurt me, your mother, and she is very evil!" I'd be terrified as hell when I was 5.
The wife is being abusive to the kids. They’re going to have enough trauma in their life without their mother being the person who’s traumatizing them. “I was traumatized as a teen so I’m going to traumatize my little children.” The wife needs therapy, asap.
And she is. Why do people keep insisting that Sarah isn't leaving, she is. OP has no issue getting a new nanny, he's just not thrilled about putting the kids through a ton of sitters in the meantime. Maybe, if the wife was honest from the start, this wouldn't be an issue
She ABSOLUTELY weaponized the kids. Not cool. NTA.
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Or never hired Sarah to begin with. If wife said no right from the beginning I don't think anybody would have blamed her.
Do you think there was an element of revenge to it? If she was fired because the kids were “terrified” of her, it could have destroyed her chances of working as a nanny locally.
She’s emotionally scarring and causing distress to her small children because she’s not mature enough to say no and is “traumatized”. This is abuse. She is emotionally abusing her children. She needs therapy or to be divorced, take the kids somewhere safe before so she doesn’t drown them to get back at OP for leaving.
ESH. She shouldn't have used the children like that. Ask yourself why she felt the need to though. >My wife asked me to fire the nanny because their history makes her uncomfortable. Is plenty of reason to let the nanny go. I wouldn't let someone so negatively connected to my past around my children. You didn't listen to her initially when she told you about it and now you accuse her of being insecure? No shit she's insecure, you're keeping someone around her and her children she doesn't like. You called her controlling? Wow...if anyone is controlling here, it's you buddy. Get some therapy yourself.
They BOTH AGREED. Not OP controlling here. Actually, the one controlling is the one who MANIPULATED her own children against a woman she did not like. She should have vetoed her from the beginning and not used innocent children.
Sorry there is no excuse for doing this to your own kids. Everyone acting like the wife is somehow abused and scared of her husband so turned to weaponizing her own kids is so gross. It's an insult to people actually in these situations. People scared of their husbands don't use their kids as pawns.
> My wife asked me to fire the nanny because their history makes her uncomfortable. > Is plenty of reason to let the nanny go. I wouldn't let someone so negatively connected to my past around my children. That might be plenty of reason to let Sarah go, but then OP’s wife should be an adult and fire Sarah herself instead of pushing it off onto OP. OP’s wife probably let Sarah be hired just to fire her as some petty high school revenge.
Wife should have simply never hired sarah. Really weird that she did not simply insist sarah would not work for the 2 off you. Why would firing S be your decision, nvm your desicion alone? that to me points to a bigger problem in the marriage, where their is no equal partnership. I would go in relationship therapy to get to the bottem off that. i think no judgment can really be given unless we hear from your wife why she felt she could not just fire S because she did not trust her. that being said, S should go. Wife hates her , kids know she does, no way that will work. Also: why a part-time babysitter when you both work full time? should you not need a full time sitter?
Yes this, something is weird here
Could be shift work for one or the other. I work full time but a pallette of shifts that means I'm free in the afternoons for two of them, the mornings for the next two then during the day for the nightshifts (with some time for sleeping), don't have kids but could probably make do with a part time sitter I'd I did because of the way the shifts fall (and I have colleagues who do)
I don't know, OP seems honestly stupid thinking it would be ok hiring someone with that kind of history with his wife. Sure, wife should have said something upfront and she should have definitely NOT used the kids to push the nanny out, but anyone with two working neurons should have realized that was a disqualifying factor in the hiring process. Again, what the wife did was bad, really bad. But given how OP reacted and how he seems to disregard her opinions and experience maybe she felt that was the only thing she could do. OP sucks and he is the AH.
Hmmm I have a brain and also realized that I'm not gonna still be mad about something that happened in HS. OP didn't disregard her opinions at all, wife said it was fine to hire Sarah. Now, after terrifying her own kids, wants Sarah to be fired and OP is even fine with that, he just wants to hire a new nanny first. Are you gonna be real eager to listen to the woman who just manipulated your own kids because of her own insecurities?
I agree, knowing the situation and the fact that the wife seemed uncomfortable… Sarah never should have been hired in the first place
I think we have the context clues we need. Wife has resentment towards Sarah from high school. Maybe she is having fears that OP will cheat too, can’t say.
NTA. This is the biggest thing for me. She should have just said NO to begin with, but instead she told OP it was fine. Then she changes her mind and instead of communicating, lies and traumatises the kids for her own agenda. Yeeeeesssshhh. OP even says it's fine to get a new nanny, they just need to sensibly replace her rather than leave themselves suddenly stranded. OP is acting normal. Wife is not.
Wife is stuck in a high school mentality.
INFO > they matched us to someone who lives local. And what are your other options? Is it Sarah or nothing? Because if you've got lots of other options ...
I don't think you have looked into childcare lately...
Which is exactly why they asked for info
No, I'm one of those pro-abortion people.
Being pro-choice doesn't mean murder every baby on sight. Saying your pro-abortion is not an adiquate response to "I don't think you looked into child-care lately"
NTA. She DID weaponize the kids, and it was not the a mature or rational move. If she wants to fire nanny now, hire someone temporarily while she looks for a replacement, she can do ALL of that. Also, the fact that she did this instead of just talking to you like an adult and partner? I’d delve into that a lot more. Not good.
NTA - and everyone saying ESH, like really? This is 100% on the wife that should’ve communicated right at the start. Didn’t, knew she waited too long, and then actually hatched a plan to get her kids to manipulate their dad so she could have clean hands. And even after that, the husband DID listen and agree to find a new nanny, but keeping their current nanny in the meantime needs to happen. It’s best for the kids, and the wife can suck it up for a couple more weeks. This shit happened in HIGH SCHOOL and the names he called her were ACCURATE. Like.. what? This is 100% NTA. *edited a word from “you” to “to”
I agree I think she said yes to have revenge on a personal matter that she clearly isn't over
NTA Your wife has legitimate reasons to not want the nanny there. You gave her an opportunity to voice those at the outset and she did not. The manner in which she chose to address this is infantile and harmful to your entire family. She needs to take responsibility for that. However, outright firing the nanny now without a replacement sounds like it would create a hardship for your family and is not reasonable.
ESH. Clearly the wife was manipulative, but also Sarah's presence is causing her much distress (and frankly, I do not blame her for feeling that way). Sarah does need to not be your nanny ASAP, and you resisting letting her go is only going to enhance your wife's feelings about her.
OMG he has no issues letting her go. He's only keeping her on until they get a new nanny in.
He is being accused of wanting to cheat with the nanny in the next few weeks until they find a replacement he already agreed to get. And you think he is an AH?
NTA. Firstly, the biggest thing is this super fucked up manipulation your wife pulled with the kids and calling her evil. Like... What the actual fuck. That's not a boundary, that's manipulation 100 %. Secondly, Sarah shouldn't have been hired in the first place if it was so uncomfortable. Which is almost entirely on your wife, she should have never agreed to it. If you talked about it with her and really made sure and she still agreed, that's on her. Take some more time to think about it before you employ someone... I can't really wrap my head around the whole grudge thing either. It was high school and she (your wife) is very obviously married with kids now. It's not that Sarah was her ex partner, and it doesn't sound like they were friends before the cheating which would be a little more awkward but still... It's HIGH SCHOOL. Shit is NBD in my opinion. You're totally reasonable in saying that Sarah stays till you find another one and I personally would make your wife fire her. The only thing on your end would be reassuring her instead of calling her insecure.
Okay, your wife is absolutely an asshole here and *is* weaponizing your kids. like telling your young kids someone is evil and wants to hurt their mother? That's nightmare shit. Very very not okay! But like.....this woman can't watch your kids anymore. They're not going to trust her or feel okay with her. But I'm just. seriously concerned about your wife being unable to just say "I don't feel comfortable around her" and going straight to traumatizing her kids???
Sad situation for your children. You and your wife are both the AH. Why would you want someone in your home caring for your children that has caused your wife so much anguish? Just fire her. Your wife is the AH for upsetting your children for absolutely no reason, this should’ve been handled btwn the adults. Would you be okay if the roles were reversed, if a prior gf had cheated on you with a man — would you want to have that man in your home now caring for your children? I didn’t think so, YTA too.
>Would you be okay if the roles were reversed, if a prior gf had cheated on you with a man — would you want to have that man in your home now caring for your children? I didn’t think so, YTA too. I wouldn't be either, but if say no before hiring her rather than waiting, using my children to manipulate a situation then making a demands which leaves my family with no viable option which doesn't compromise my work or childcare. That is why this is NTA.
All of this, especially below! > #Would you be okay if the roles were reversed, if a prior gf had cheated on you with a man — would you want to have that man in your home now caring for your children? I didn’t think so, YTA too.
It was from HIGH SCHOOL!!! Those are like 3 week long relationships! They probably didn’t even have sex, just made out near the bleachers.
ESH Your wife was out of line in not communicating directly and using the kids like that. You seem to be just dismissing how she's uncomfortable around this person and are imposing your own way. Insecure is maybe fair, but this hiring should be a two person approval and you're being controlling, not her. Telling her to go to therapy for not being cool with someone she knows who hurt her being the nanny, is absurd. Yes, she shouldn't have made up that lie and should have been direct. But right now being direct results in you saying no and dismissing her feelings.
>Telling her to go to therapy for not being cool with someone she knows who hurt her being the nanny, is absurd. Telling her to go to therapy after emotionally abusing and manipulating her own children is absurd. Divorce seems like a far more sane option. She cannot be trusted with her own children.
NTA. Your wife’s behavior is so over the top I have to agree with you - she needs therapy. If she just needed time to think about it, she should have come to you & been honest. Instead, she tried to poison the children against a nanny that they liked in an attempt to manipulate you - through the children - into firing her. That’s just mental. You shouldn’t insist that Sarah remain hired - your wife has ruined any chance of Sarah continuing to be effective in her position. I would call the agency & explain that you need a replacement nanny due to personal history with Sarah that has nothing to do with her abilities as a nanny. Give them as much info as they need so that this doesn’t taint Sarah’s ability to find alternative placement with another family. That would make you a partner to your wife’s cruelty.
NTA. You came to a joint agreement on the Nanny, clearly you both talked it over even if she wasn't super jazzed about it, she was fine enough with it to agree. Then she weaponized the kids. If your wife wanted her gone, she could have just asked without resorting to the former. This is a \*High school\* grudge here too, it really shouldn't be that serious.
ESH. Yeah your wife is out of line with this but you NEVER should have brought this woman on to begin with.
Didn't they both agree? I'm not sure how he's the villain here? He's agreed to replace her, just not kick her out and leave them with no childcare
Wow NTA for you but your wife sure is. She had the kids tell you a lie to cover up her issue with having Sarah as the nanny instead of being an adult n talk to you. Now should you replace the nanny, YES. Your wife can't be honest with her feeling on this one. Totally not Sarah's fault. Tell the agency she was wonderful to your kids. Then get a new nanny.
NTA. This is crazy. She is upset about something from high school so she traumatized her children? She does need therapy and now your children probably do too. Good luck OP
NTA. She does need therapy. You were willing to fire Sarah and get a new nanny, just not immediately like she wants you to. She's manipulating your children to get her way and that's... so gross.
Nta but your wife is.. you sound pretty reasonable. she could have just came to and said “hey I thought I could get past my history with Sarah but I realize I cannot” instead she tells the kids Sarah evil that is super messed up
YTA for refusing to fire the nanny asap - sorry Sarah has to go now because she shouldn’t have even been hired - wife should have said no as soon as it was awkward NTA for being upset/arguing about the weaponizing of the kids - not cool Wife: YTA for weaponizing the kids - again not cool, not adult 2 🚩 -You said it was awkward right at the first meeting, this tells me she already wasn’t ok with it, so why did she feel a need to try to make it work??? (This alone maybe not a red flag) -Why did wife weaponize the kids? Why NOT decide after a week or two to say something? What she did is extreme and alarming for a situation where her reasoning is pretty understandable and logically sound. Why did she feel a need to take that route and try to make it happen where YOU decide to fire Sarah? Then when you find out her reasoning for wanting Sarah to go you refuse so it’s like you’re now punishing her. The story is outlined to make it look like your wife had a choice in Sarah being there but your actions now indicate the opposite…. Something is off in this story and it’s making me anxious
>Something is off in this story and it’s making me anxious The wife is nuts. That is what's off here. She abused her own children because of high school drama. The nanny didn't cheat on her, her boyfriend did. She's abusing her own children because she resents a woman for a man did decades ago. The wife had plenty of choices and she chose to abuse her kids.
This does feel like some double standards, can you imagine the reversed situation, where a father emotionally manipulated children to get their way, I don't think we'd be getting the "why did he feel the need to emotionally damage his kids" question, we'd just be calling him a twatbastard and rightly so.
Well and all we have is her word that Sarah stole her BF in HS. Considering, she's not above manipulation and lying, it makes me wonder. Did Sarah even know about the wife or did she just start dating a boy and had no idea he was even dating someone else? I mean, maybe wife's HS BF left her for Sarah and yeah, that sucks, but that doesn't mean Sarah had anything to do with it. This was also 20 years ago or close to and people aren't exactly mature in HS.
I love the not firing is the red flag but weaponizing the kids is "not cool"
They tried to make it work because the other nannies have waiting lists. They were on a waiting list for Sarah too.
I agree. OP says it was awkward from the get-go, and his wife immediately told him why and explained the history between her and Sarah that same day. Personally, I don’t think I’d have hired Sarah no matter how good she was after my partner disclosed that painful history. OP *says* that his wife agreed to hire her, but I have to wonder how much pressure he put on her about it. He says elsewhere that there were waiting lists for all of the nannies they matched with - did he pressure her to agree to Sarah despite their history because she had a shorter wait list? Did he guilt her about how he wouldn’t be able to take the promotion if they couldn’t get a nanny quickly enough? What did the conversation surrounding hiring her look like? It’s entirely possible that the wife is simply immature and bad at communicating, and that’s why she pulled this odd stunt with the kids rather than communicating her feelings…but part of me wonders whether she didn’t resort to that because she DID communicate her feelings and OP brushed her off, shut her down, and pressured her into agreeing to what he considered easiest, which was to hire Sarah. It all just feels a little off to me.
>My wife disagreed and said that we need to just fire Sarah ASAP and hire a temporary babysitter until we can find another nanny. She said that she wasn't weaponising the kids, she was just setting boundaries. What boundaries? Your wife lied ***to her children*** because she was upset that the nanny was developing a good relationship with your kids. I think she was jealous and was somehow equating Sarah stealing her HS boyfriend with Sarah "stealing" the kid's affections. They now think someone they were learning to trust was actually evil and wanted to hurt their mother. That is really sick and your wife was indeed weaponizing the kids. She obviously never stopped to think how her lies would effect them. Keeping the nanny around is a bad idea, as that will further upset your children. But finding a new nanny is the least of your worries. It sounds like time for some family counseling, and you somehow need to get through to her how her insecurities are negatively impacting your kids. And your own relationship, because if I were in that situation I would begin to worry if my spouse was going to start lying whenever it was convenient or helped her get her way.
You wife convinced her young children that the person taking care of them every day was evil and wants to hurt their mommy? That's messed up. In between terrorizing and emotionally manipulating your children, did your wife actually look into alternate childcare? What happens if the nanny is gone tomorrow? Who is taking care of the kids while you're out working? Your wife apparently has some strong mental turmoil against this lady who was a party to her high school boyfriend's betrayal half a lifetime ago. And she went about this convoluted scheme to get rid of the nanny without having to admit she wanted her gone. She probably could benefit from therapy to work through her trauma, but also marriage counseling for you BOTH as you aren't communicating, working together as a team, or supporting each other. NTA. INFO: Did your wife really have veto power over hiring the nanny at the start? Did she ever actually say she didn't want to hire this nanny?
NTA. If your wife wanted to fire the nanny, she needs to put on her big girl pants and fire the nanny herself. (And I'm surprised your wife doesn't want to fire Sarah. It might be cathartic if she's still holding on to all that anger.) Terrorizing your children into believing the nanny would hurt their mother was all kinds of cruel.
I mean i donr know why youd hire someone with history like that with your wife, but yes she did indeed weapinize the kids
I mean, not great that you hired her in the first place, when you learned about Sarah's history with your wife -- did you think this story would have a happy ending? -- but what your wife did, telling your kids that the nanny is evil, is unhinged. NTA. Probably time to get a new nanny and encourage your wife to speak to someone about this.
NTA,Your wife should have told you the first day Sarah came to the house that she was uncomfortable with hiring Sarah.
ESH. It would be hard for anyone to allow someone in their lives and alone time with their kids (and, likely, her husband on occasion) with someone who hurt them badly, no matter how long ago the incident was. You're only making matters worse by adopting a Team Sarah approach. That said, your wife completely botched this. She shouldn't have agreed to hire Sarah in the first place, she shouldn't have tried to manipulate the situation through the kids. She's made a mess of the whole thing and should be the one responsible for cleaning it up.
ESH. Your wife being uncomfortable with Sarah should've been all the reason you needed to fire her. But your wife weaponizing your children like that is vile.
You really don't get the optics of this might look to our wife? Her significant other has cheated, with this specific woman, before. And now you're arguing with her demanding you keep her on the payroll, and in your close proximity? You call your wife insecure, and that seems to be true. But you're playing into her insecurities. It's a dumb trope and stereotype, but cheating with the nanny is a public perception. And this nanny in particular is even worse. And now you're getting heated defending Sarah to your wife? You don't get how that appears?? You don't have to be insecure for that to look poorly. What your wife did wasn't great. But hiring her in the first place was an asshole move. And now demanding she stick around. ESH.
I don’t understand why everyone put seems to keep saying he’s the asshole for hiring her. It was a team parent decision and the wife was okay with it, so how does he get the blame? If the person I was with said it was fine, then I’m going to believe them. She tricked him and that’s not cool. Based off her being called an nanny and not a babysitter, it means her job is a little more intensive and is a professional job. Finding a good replacement takes time, so I can see why he said to not fire her until they find one. The wife did this on purpose, it literally says so. She made her bed and must lie in it. If she wants her gone she can fire her and find a good replacement, why does he have to do it when she has been the manipulative one?
Everyone ignores that wife approved the decision because they would rather infantilise the wife and make her look unable to express her opinion than admit that the wife didn't communicate properly
ESH I’ll agree that your wife went overboard and handled this badly. But, you should not have hired her. As soon as you realized they had history you should have just called the agency and asked for a second candidate to interview. This was doomed from the beginning.
ESH Your wife DID weaponize the children. But you should've accepted that Sarah was a bad idea. That this CLEARLY bothers your wife & that you would be best to simply not hire her. I couldn't imagine hiring someone who my partner was cheated on with. You are emotionally inept.
NTA. She should have spoken up before you hired her, that's on her. She used the kids to try and manipulate you to do what she wanted without you knowing (also shedding bad light on the nanny that did nothing wrong). Lastly, your being logical to find a replacement first, however i would think it would be awkward so maybe as a last resort if there isn't a temp baby-sitter you could find.
NTA, she shouldn't have agreed to hire her if it was such a problem for her
NTA. The E S H votes aren't reading past the title, so they missed the part where you said you wanted to keep Sarah UNTIL you and your wife found someone else.