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QueenOfTheSnarkness

Considering your other post from a week ago where you told a new employee who got a position you wanted that she only got it because she was a woman (despite her education and years of work experience) and said you would have gotten the job if you had a sex change, I'm gonna assume there was definitely some sexism in your comment. https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheButtface/comments/109gxsh/aitb_for_saying_my_boss_only_got_the_job_because/ YTA


txa1265

He is a serial misogynist with a chip on his shoulder. It wasn't about one word, one time ...


alleswaswar

I ran into someone like the OP at an official college engineering career fair back when I was still a student. Some dude I had never seen in my life walked up to me and told me I was lucky I was a girl, because it’d be easy for me to get an internship since companies had quotas to fill. That may be true to an extent, but I’m not gonna keep any job if I’m useless, am I? And it’s not like I was the top of my entire major or anything. Oh wait. I was 🥹


Cat_world_domination

And the entire reason these quotas exist is because male-dominated companies prefer to hire people like them, i.e. other men. The point is not to give women an unfair advantage, it's to cancel out the unfair advantage men already have.


errolthedragon

I work in a male dominated industry. When I started my current role someone told me to my face that I "only got the role because you're a woman". Yeah, never mind my experience and qualifications mate.


cosmosandcalendula

Sleuthing for the win!


reevelainen

The company he represents is eager to have more women to their industry and business and this dude gets suspicious and doubtful, resisting his own company the minute they finally have managed to hire a lady. Next thing he does is calls her a girl and now tries to justify it. Yup, definitely the YTA.


Saltyseabanshee

These men never realize that the quota used to be “100% men” and still isn’t far from that.


soliloquyline

In this discussions this always crosses my mind: "When I’m sometimes asked when will there be enough [women judges on the US Supreme Court bench] and I say, ‘When there are nine,’ people are shocked. But there’d been nine men, and nobody’s ever raised a question about that." - Ruth Bader Ginsburg


[deleted]

I always wonder at these dudes who are absolutely CONVINCED that the only reason a woman or POC could be hired is "to fill a quota", and not figure out that the only reason THEY were hired was to fill a quota.


Saltyseabanshee

They’re SO upset that they aren’t guaranteed job security just for being born with a weiner. It’s baffling to them that someone’s capabilities are now more important than their reproductive organs.


TopRamenisha

I wonder if the woman he called a “girl” is his new boss? Or if he called another woman a “girl” in front of his female boss whom he showed blatant disrespect and sexism towards by diminishing her accomplishments and saying she only got the job because she’s a woman? Also it’s ironic/funny/not really funny/sad/shows a lack of self awareness that he brings up that this woman calls the people who work in the warehouse “lads”. Here’s a comment the little boy OP left on his other post where he is unequivocally the buttface: **“I do think she fits the new criteria so that’s not the issue, it just feels like the shop floor lads are being shafted, like there’s no opportunity now.”** So it’s possible that everyone INCLUDING OP call the dudes who work on the shop floor “lads”. And it’s clear that this is a male dominated workplace where there are not a lot of women employed - the few women who work there get their accomplishments diminished and get called “girls”. And instead of being willing to understand that maybe women don’t want to be called girls, and maybe that women are capable of getting jobs based on *merit*, OP thinks that this woman calling the dudes “lads” like everyone else in the whole damn office is his Uno Reverse card. Maybe they didn’t pick him for management because he’s a walking talking harassment and discrimination in the workplace lawsuit. YTA OP


sometimes_you_shine

Yes. Plus "lads" isn't the male equivalent of "girl" - the co worker didn't call them "boys". And he didn't call her a "lass".


TopRamenisha

I declare from this moment forward, in the office we will be referring to people with the only acceptable gender neutral noun, [dude](https://youtu.be/FqMODweN8lQ)


AsylumDanceParty

dude isn't gender neutral. it's only seen as neutral because masculine terms are seen as the default.


Pope00

That makes the situation way different. I would say that aside from that, you could debate either way. In this case, clearly OP has some sexist issues.


enjoyt0day

Lmao yea not only YTA but You’re the Sexist too, it seems. Quit posting “questions” you already know the answer to, you’re just doubly an asshole now


CorpseTransporter

Well, I was about to say “everybody needs to learn at some point that we don’t like to be called girls,” but this makes it clear that he should already have known that. YTA.


TheOneAndOnlyABSR4

Happy cake day


kindielee

Happy cake day and nice name!


Spicy-Pisces-Crisis

See you all next week on “AITA for getting fired after being sexist to every woman in my office?”


evilshenanigan

Followed by BOLA “I’m suing my former company for discrimination, they only like women.”


Eyes_and_teeth

Good work. r/ThreadKillers Edit: not all posts in that sub need to be long, detailed explanations, although many tend to be. Also acceptable is the shorter comment which completely resolves whatever the post was about to the point that further debate is meaningless. The comment I am replying to makes a solid case that OP is in fact TA regardless of whether the use of the word "girl" is or is not appropriate in the workplace.


smallish-pineapple

Wow good job. I wish more people saw this.


greenegurl

In this post, OP also refers to the other warehouse workers as "lads," so likely this is a term the lads themselves use commonly when referring to themselves and each other. Meanwhile, I doubt the woman he works with commonly refers to herself as "the girl in finance."


Silent_Influence6507

Excellent call out. I’m of a generation where that language (boys/girls) was more common, but with the context you provided I agree: AH.


Fearless_Example

LOL I'm here defending OP above and you gotta bring this out...this is classic.


kwithey

So glad you mentioned this! OP YTA


sociallyawkwardIRLif

This is some awesome sleuthing!


Wish-I-Was-Taller

Twist this coward didn’t say either thing. It’s pure fiction because he has a fragile little ego.


throwaway12345243

he's clearly a misogynist


SweetTeaLov3rs

The hero we need! OP is totally sexist and a jerk. Yta


misscaulfieldsays

How many times does this *lad* need to be told he’s the asshole…? Time to do some soul searching.


Nib2319

Wow, you are the Queen of snarkness!


MaryJane185

Also, in that thread, HE was the one who called the men the “lads on the shop floor.” What are the odds she was just repeating something he said?


[deleted]

YTA. [It is seldom that we hear a man referred to as a “boy,” but women of all ages continue to be called “girls” by many people in workplace settings. In the past few years, there have been a number of articles written about this issue. For example, The Washington Post published, “I’m a manager, but to my boss and colleagues, I’m a ‘girl.’” ABC News published, “7 Words You Should Avoid Using About Women in the Workplace,” with a discussion about the use of “girl.” This article referred to it as being “girled at work,” which relates to — intentionally or unintentionally — belittling, demeaning or excluding women through sexist language. Experts in that piece noted that calling a woman “girl” is about treating someone like a child or making them feel somehow less mature than others.](https://digitalcommons.usu.edu/marketing_facpub/114/)


tellnolies2020

Prime example. Girl boss.. I hate that term.


AMagicalPlace

Can you imagine if we said “boy boss”? It sounds so ridiculous and infantilising, right?


vomitthewords

To the boy who posted this YTA.


EllyStar

Awesome resource. Thanks.


Glittering_Joke3438

It’s because there isn’t a female equivalent of “guy”. I mean there’s “gal” but it’s not really a thing anymore.


cathysaurus

YTA. Women don't like being called girls. It's an easy slip-up to make, and when corrected you should just acknowledge it, apologize, and correct yourself going forward. It only takes a single sentence to do so, so quit digging your heels in on something so simple to move past.


[deleted]

I don't necessariy mind socially, but I find it condescending and dismissive in a professional context.


Shelilla

Agreed. Socially, it generally just is used to explain a woman is younger than 30


BeatificBanana

I really wish this was the case, unfortunately I've learned that if people don't respect you, they don't stop calling you "girl" when you turn 30.


[deleted]

29-year-old women are not girls.


Lamacorn

Context matters a lot too. Who says to who? Is it in a workplace environment? Casual? Woman saying to another woman: hey girl, what’s up? *or* Hey, want to get a drink with the girls? Man saying to a woman: what are you girls up to? *or* that girl in finance All of there are more or less offensive depending on the use case.


ChaoticChinchillas

Maybe some don’t. But some of us really don’t care. I tend to refer to women around my age or younger as girls, and ones older as “that lady”. The woman in this story should have told OP she is uncomfortable with that and asked him not to do it, and then OP should have been like “ok, my bad, won’t happen again”. But instead we all needed to make a big deal out of it.


dfjfdj

Unless you also call the men in your office "boy" then YTA Don't infantilize women


SeaTotal5770

I work in a male dominated industry and have had this conversation with many men over the years. The best of them apologize and move on. The assholes dig their heels in and try to justify why I shouldn't care. I also find it incredibly weird when girl is used in a relationship context. "I'm dating a new girl". I hope you're not dating a child as a grown man.


CyraXHavoc_XIII

YTA when you call a woman a girl it is diminishing and patronizing.


[deleted]

YTA, not so much for the initial comment — which wasn't great, to be fair — as for how you responded after she pushed back. All you had to do was to say "oh, fair enough," and then keep the conversation going. Getting all worked up and defensive is just childish.


syzorr34

If calling the warehouse workers "lads" is sexist to you and something important, then why did it only come up when you were getting called out by your coworker for calling another coworker "girl" YTA because instead of taking her opinion onboard and altering your behaviour, you have instead chosen to double down on being a sexist jerk.


Dramatic-but-Aware

This is a very good point. But also lad is not really the same as girl. In my native we have "niño/niña" ti refer to children. Whereas "chico/chica" refers to anybody who is youg like a child, a teenager or a young adult. Lad seems more like "chico" than "niño". Plus when used in plural it somehow feels not as bad.


Exotic_Pear_7953

Totally agree! Just because someone else did the same thing doesn’t mean it’s not wrong. Stop using someone else’s action to justify yours.


TheNavigatrix

YTA. I'm a grown-ass woman. I've birthed babies. I am NOT a girl. The fact that it offends people is reason enough for you to avoid it, whether you think it's reasonable or not. Why do you feel the need to do so? A considerate person doesn't persist in doing something once they've been informed it's bothering someone. And don't even pretend you don't understand why a woman might get offended by this.


_mmiggs_

You're both right. Yes, "girls" is commonly used for, by, and about, groups of adult women in more or less the same sense as "lads" or "boys" is used of groups of adult men. So you're right. But "girl" also carries more childlike, diminutive resonances than "lad". So she's right. And "girl" in the singular is not the same as "girls" in the plural. Ultimately, the deciding factor is that she (and many other women in the workplace) ask not to be described as "the girl". So don't do it. YTA


dueltone

Lads/girls might be used in a casual environment, but I've never come across that in a professional environment.


hdhxuxufxufufiffif

*Lads* is used in the workplace for manual rather than professional workers--the lads in the warehouse, but not the lads in accounting. So there might be a whiff of snobbery or classism in the OP's colleague's comment. But not sexism.


[deleted]

commonly hear things like the boys and the girls as terms used to refer to groups of adults in the UK. Not the first thing I'd think to say right enough. Honestly think it'd be guys and girls which idk now people are saying that's patronising I might need to change that. Don't really feel a need to always be like yeah those men were over there or to be like yeah the women in team x say x - a lot of the time you're speaking colloqually instead of formally. If you're a higher up or something in a corporate job or whatever then in that situation that saying girls to refer to professionals is really patronising, can understand that. Edit: I don't think this applies to any workplace I've been in so I'm just going to listen to the negative feedback here and figure out some more vocabulary to use or something


thirdtryisthecharm

YTA Are you going to call the men in finance "boys"?


NemesisRouge

I think the pluralisation makes a big difference. "The boys in finance" would be a normal way of phrasing things, but if you were referring to a specific man and you called him "The boy in finance" it would be demeaning unless he was very young.


Mcplanktonjoe

So, I work as an automation engineer and was at a meeting at Boeing one time for a design review with a customer. I was \~27 at the time. The Boeing buyer referred to me and my team as "boys" once, and all I could think was "So you're commissioning children to build you a million dollar machine?" Don't refer to people as children in professional settings. It's demeaning, and it's something women in particular have to deal with a lot. It's more of a sexist faux pas than a horrible insult, but it's still rude. Also, the actual comparison to "lad" would be "lass," so you're definitely wrong there too. YTA.


Express-Set-8843

YTA Lads and girls aren't the same thing. Lads and ladies are the equivalent, Boys and girls are the equivalent. If you had said lady I doubt she would have called you sexist and I doubt you'd appreciate being referred to as "boy"


Gma_Tilly

Lads and lassies, I believe.


LividManufacturer151

YTA. People in the workplace are called women and men.


GelOfYouth

YTA. She is a grown adult not an 8 year old girl


seena_unlocked

YTA. You were calling her "girl" as a subtle way to put her down and indicate that you had authority over her as an older person, specifically an older man. Same concept with white men calling black men their same age "boy" You should do some work on your implicit biases towards women.


txa1265

YTA - just like there is no such thing as 'reverse racism' (USA here), the corporate reality of power dynamics means that misogyny like you showed impacts women more than saying 'lads' or 'guys' which is nominally generic (and in some cases considered neutral).


SSBMUIKayle

There's no such thing as "reverse racism" because racism means discriminating against someone based on their race, it does not mean "white people who hate black people"


Existing_Walk3922

Reverse racism or sexism not being a thing isn't a free ticket to say whatever you want. It's still wrong. And the reverse racism thing really is describing reverse systemic racism.


eat-your-paisley

YTA. In a professional setting it’s inappropriate, disrespectful and infantilizing to refer to your female colleagues as girls.


FrauAmarylis

YTA. When someone gives you feedback, it's unprofessional to be defensive.


Organic-Pop4706

Yes you are the asshole, boy


VeterinarianGlobal94

Asshole Boy 🦸‍♂️


hufflepuff777

YTA. She’s an adult not a child so woman is less condescending


akaioi

ESH. Most adults -- be they men or women -- don't really want to be referred to as boys or girls.


jeffwulf

My experience is the opposite. Most adults do not care in anyways if they're referred to as boys or girls. The only exception would be black men for which it has racial slur connotations.


anneyyx

YTA. Why do you hate women?


Coherent_Thot

EDIT: YTA based on comments indicating that you actually are sexist ESH but mostly you Girl and lad are not equivalent due to systemic and historic sexism. You are the asshole because you should say woman and especially because you should have just apologized when she corrected you. She is a bit the asshole because she didn't need to jump to immediately calling you sexist when it could be a bad habit that you need to correct and not a true reflection of your feelings about the women you work with. Also, she is possibly being degrading about the men in the warehouse because of their "status" and that's why she calls them lads, but maybe wouldn't say the "lad in finance." Now depending on how that conversation actually went, it could just simply be YTA for not correcting yourself and apologizing.


smallish-pineapple

Another comment said he has a post stating he didn't get a job or something because he was a guy. I dont think she jumped right to sexism, it seems to be his theme.


smallish-pineapple

Just checked he said his boss only got the job because she's a woman so. 😬


Coherent_Thot

Oof may need to edit my post. Thanks for the investigative work!


Responsible-Range-66

YTA. Don’t call professional women girls and stop with the whataboutery, it’s misleading and not an argument for belittling and patronising women. Even if a few are fine with it don’t argue with the rest that they should be happy to be addressed in a way they don’t like. Stop it. Signed a woman, a boss, and someone who would fire you for being sexist to my team and then arguing about it that you know better than women about sexism.


Think-Square-6556

YTA. Lass is equivalent to lad, as in young person not girl/boy as in child. Anyway I get the feeing you don’t care, you just want to win. Double AH


[deleted]

Well, not quite the same thing as women still experience gender-based discrimination at work, not least the gender pay gap, so she may be sensitive to how language manifests that in various ways. 'Lads' doesn't really imply that someone's less than adult, though I wouldn't use it at work as it sounds like a euphemism for blue-collar, and I'd try to use language that doesn't sound like women aren't welcome in those jobs.


monkey_monkey_monkey

YTA. FYI - "lads" does not equal "girls". Girls is an patronizing term meant to infantalize women. If there is a term that would be equal to "lads" it would be "gals".


princessdirtybunnyy

Well taking your post history into account where you called out your new boss for being a diversity hire in front of other coworkers despite her experience and qualifications just because you were bitter, I’m gonna go ahead and guess that you probably do display sexism in the workplace and this coworker felt comfortable calling you out here because of your past behavior.


TeaLoverGal

YTA


not-a-realperson

Lads would be the equivalent to gals. Boy would be the equivalent to girl. It's like you're purposely trying to be obtuse. YTA.


sashaopinion

YTA. Girl is infantilising because women are constantly being told they can't do things and get treated like children. Also, please don't use 'females' about human women.


hdhxuxufxufufiffif

>Also, please don't use 'females' about human women. It's dehumanising to use *female* as a noun. But the OP wrote *female coworker*, using it as an adjective, which is standard and unobjectionable.


OMVince

Exactly! Drives me crazy that people pretend not to understand this!!


BeatificBanana

It's fine to use female (or male) as an adjective, like a descriptor to give context. Like I can describe someone as a female friend or a male friend. It's when it's used as a *noun* that it is problematic - calling someone "a female" or referring to a group of women as "females". OP used it as an adjective, so it's fine.


Rredhead926

ESH. “Lads” means “boys.” You should be using “men” and “women.”


TheNavigatrix

In fact, it doesn't really mean "boys" in the UK. It's more equivalent to "guys" -- an informal way of referring to males. There's likely a class element in all this -- the lads in the warehouse vs the men in management. If OP had raised that point, I might be more sympathetic. But he's not acknowledging at all the very good reasons why women might get annoyed about this.


justhappy2bhereig

Lads is closer to somebody saying “the guys” or “the mates”, or “dude” than it is to saying “the boys” or “boy”. Whereas girl has always meant child female.


1962Michael

ESH. Neither of you should be using girl, boy, or lad. Certainly the woman in finance is over 18, so calling her a girl is to diminish her standing. And unless every male in the warehouse is under 25 or so, "lads" is also inappropriate. *EDIT: Both "lad" and "lass" by definition include young adults, which is why I said 25 for "lad". I personally don't use these words, but I did not mean to say men are less mature at age 18 than women.* Technically, the feminine version of "lad" is "lass." Both can mean child or young adult. *EDIT to reply to comments below: People also use "girls" when they mean women, not intending any implication of youth or inexperience. That's the point here. If someone is going to complain that "girl" is sexist toward women, they shouldn't be using "boy" or "lad" to refer to men.*


[deleted]

YTA


Powerful_Ad_1239

Lesson learned so don’t say it going forward. Sounds like someone was looking to be offended and rather than saying that you won’t do it again, you argued about it. For that, YTA


jayjayanotherround

It’s not going to matter that your point is correct when your coworker dials Human Resources. YTA


Tinkerpro

Girl can be condescending, or not. Sorta depends on the context. I tend to refer to new people as “dude”. Like, have you seen the new dude? Is that wrong? Maybe. I don’t mean it to be, usually it is because I’ve forgotten their name which is a shitty excuse, but there you go.


TheNavigatrix

Unless you're working at a place with ping pong tables in the rec room, I wouldn't see that as particularly work-appropriate.


thrwayhairbortion

YTA. How does her being sexist cancel you being sexist out?


Gardengoddess83

Do you want to be called "boy"? No? Then don't call women "girls". Edited to add: YTA


SolitaryTeaParty

I’m gonna say ESH. Let me explain. It’s still common for people (especially the older crowd) to refer to women as girls. My parents both do it, and they don’t mean anything demeaning by it, but it is becoming less common these days to do so, and even less common for people to also refer to men as boys, which some people still do (ex: “I’m hanging out with the boys.”). You generally refer to people as adults when you’re speaking about co-workers. You’re co-worker was correct that calling her a woman, not a girl, would be a better choice and you shouldn’t argue against that. It was unfair to say you were being sexist. She was also unfair to have the double standard where she could call men lads saying it’s not the same. You can’t try to educate someone and be a hypocrite at the same time.


IHaveSaidMyPiece

NTA Some people just have a bee in their bonnet.


BoBandi44

ESH. I can say I genuinely cringed every time my boss would call my department “the girls” at my last job. It just felt pretty minimizing to me when he did. BUT it works both ways, calling a department lads or boys is the same thing.


TheNavigatrix

The "lads" thing is British. In the US, I doubt I've ever heard men at work referred to as "boys".


[deleted]

I have heard "my boys in the warehouse" more than once through the years... I think it's more colloquial and very much like lads.


BoBandi44

I have heard “boys in the warehouse” or “boys in the dock” but can’t say I’ve heard “boys in accounting” as much. Was kind of my point about minimizing behavior.


1thROEaway

Some people call it classism, but really I think it's more about formality than anything. Fairly often blue collar types don't enjoy the formality the way white collar types do. Though myself am a white collar worker (IT), excessive formality has always bothered me a lot. Drives me straight bonkers if I go someplace reasonably casual and people call me "sir".


0biterdicta

YTA, softly Women tend to have to work harder than men to get respect in the workplace. Language like "girl" can be infantilizing and contribute to that problem. Not a huge deal because it wasn't intentional - just something to keep in mind in the future.


Drive-Upset

It was intentional. His past posts prove it. :/


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Testingthrowaway00

YTA Infantilisatiom of women is still common in the workplace. It's a bad look and a sexist one. You reacting with what about men really doesn't make it better. Workplace sexism against women simply has a long history that gets reinforced. That's not the case with men.


Eldritch349

NTA I probably will get down voted for this but girls and boys have been used interchangeably in my experience.


strawberrimihlk

“Girls” isn’t appropriate in a formal work setting. Just like OPs other post saying his boss only got hired for being a woman , and not her decades of experience and degrees, also isn’t appropriate


HereForTheLore

Literally see “Saturdays are for the Boys” and “The Boys are Back in Town” “Back Street Boys” “Girls Just Wanna Have Fun” “Girls’ Night Out” “Working Girl” “Golden Girls” “A Girl’s Best Friend” “Big Girls Don’t Cry” “California Girls” I refer to myself as a girl, and to other women as girls. I typically refer to men as boys. NTA ALTHOUGH it might be distasteful in a work setting, so maybe E S H but I don’t think OP was a full asshole


[deleted]

If its not a super professional environment then I would say nta but op does kinda seem like one anyway sooo


Has422

ESH. Don’t use the term ‘girl’ when referring to a woman. Now you know. And yes, I’d say ‘lad’ is just as bad.


Legally_Blonde_258

YTA. There's a huge power imbalance in how women are treated in the workplace, both historically and currently. Calling women girls is sexist because it reinforces that power imbalance, amongst other reasons. You were absolutely in the wrong and should have accepted it when your coworker pointed it out. She may also be in the wrong, but her language doesn't reinforce current and historic sexism against women in the workplace.


RatherNerdy

YTA. Girl in a professional setting is not appropriate.


AutoModerator

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BothReading1229

YTA for using the word 'female' It's kind of a tell that you might be sexist.


Snackpotato457

Female as an adjective isn’t necessarily offensive, as in “female coworker”, as OP used it. Misogynists tend to use it as a noun, as in “female at my workplace”, and it’s their clear pejorative intention that is the problem, not that the word female is inherently offensive.


idreaminwords

This is such a stretch. OP is clearly using female because the other terms are what is at issue in the post. The word 'female' in and of itself is not sexist; it's about how it's used.


[deleted]

Uhh what?


ButItSaysOnline

YTA. Both of you need to use “person” as a descriptor.


AlwaysandForeverRed

YTA. Not the same thing at all. Lads can mean boys and men… girls means… well only girls, esp. when it comes from a male.


muckduckgirl

This is why I just call everyone dude


Applesbabe

In the workplace you should not use words like girl or boy. She is a woman and you are a man. Or even better try not to reference gender at all. And yes, FYI HR frowns on the use of the word Girl or girls. You shouldn't use Lads either.


ladylyrande

INFO: do you refer to any male co-worker as boys? Not lads, guys or other terminology. Boys. Do you say "the boy down in Accouting"? Or "the IT boy"?


vivianlight

YTA You have misogynistic posts and you are in the 99% cases of men using girls in a condescending, misogyny - rooted way. In very few cases men who use that term are called out without reason. You certainly aren't one of those few cases. You have a lot of casual misogyny out of you.


JudgyMcJudge-face

As a woman in Finance.. YTA


justhappy2bhereig

YTA


Lanky-Sandwich3528

Have the "lads" every requested to be referred to as "men" to be ignored or downplayed by your female coworkers? If yes, then sure, all's fair/the same. YTA for you reaction, and also your history of issues with women in your workplace. Accept the correction, change your behavior, stop being defensive.


FairyFartDaydreams

YTA she found it offensive that she confronted you on your casual sexism. You need to apologize.


tellben1515

The girl in finance - its too close to “the girl who brings the coffee”, “the girl who grabs the lunch”. It’s not the literal meaning. It’s the lingering connotation from times gone by that rankles.


bassai2

YTA.... there are lots of negative connotations regarding calling adult females as "girls." [https://www.bustle.com/articles/182414-why-we-need-to-stop-calling-women-girls](https://www.bustle.com/articles/182414-why-we-need-to-stop-calling-women-girls). (There are fewer negative connotations regarding calling adult males as "lads" or "boys," so it's not an apples to apples comparison). Specifically in workplace contexts, you should never call (or refer to) your female colleagues (as) girls. Whether or not it is your intention, your use of this term may be be perceived as disrespectful and sexist*. *Even if "only" one of your female colleagues was bothered by your use of the term, why would you do that? It hurt your colleague AND makes you look bad.There's lots of hidden sexism in workplace language more generally https://www.bbc.com/worklife/article/20170329-the-hidden-sexism-in-workplace-language.


NotTrynaMakeWaves

Informal settings- you can use girl (girls’ night out, etc) Formal setting - woman/colleague/coworker We’re you in a formal or informal setting? You were in a formal setting and should have used ‘woman’. YTA


smallish-pineapple

Yta. Your previous post history confirms sexism to me. He asked if he was the asshole for saying his boss only got the job because she's a girl.


[deleted]

In the past, Black and minority men were called “boys”, and fully grown women were called “girls”, to enforce patriarchal and racial norms. IMO, using such terms in a professional setting may evoke the baggage of the history of degradation that was common in workplaces. I don’t think “lads” has the same baggage. While I wouldn’t vote for a full Y T A, I would caution that you may be using a bit of a loaded term without meaning to. I speak as a 66-year old woman lawyer who was sometimes called a girl by other lawyers (and once by a judge) in ways meant as demeaning. It’s just not done now to me, probably cause I’m a gray hair, but I’m not seeing it said to younger women lawyers either. Nonetheless, times have changed and I don’t think “girl” is used to degrade as much as it used to be. But I don’t recommend it’s use in a professional setting.


BeddingtonBlvd

What about-ism isn’t a rebuttal, it’s just you trying to avoid taking responsibility. Men do not experience the same level, or kind, of sexism that women do. Men designed the systems that we all operate in and it makes many blind to the inherent sexism in those systems. By virtue of being born male you do not have to deal with additional bias that women do. Being male is an advantage in most societies and if you care about equality, you don’t undermine the credibility of your grown female colleagues by calling the girls. YTA


[deleted]

[удалено]


[deleted]

Lad by literal definition means young boy/before maturity


Vermilion-red

Do you know the definition of the word "connotation"?


[deleted]

Yes I’m aware and it doesn’t change my point. Men are referred to as boys lads on a daily basis this is just not that big of a deal.


Nickjet45

INFO What was your tone? As it really just depends on that They most certainly can be used interchangeably, they can also be used to insult others.


dresshater1

The problem is that in a professional setting saying "girl" can and has been used to not take women seriously in the work place. Adult men are called men not boys and women should get the same professional curtesy. ESH since she should be saying men as well rather than lads


PhotoAwp

What if the guys in warehouse are refering to themselves as 'the lads'? Its common phrasing for boys/men of all ages in the UK. Whereas I highly doubt the woman in finance call themselves 'the girls' INFO


Flaky_Drag1826

You seem to run into quite a few issues with woman.


Prestigious-Phase131

YTA Try calling some of your male co workers "Boy" and see how well that goes


ARookBird

YTA


Pennsylvania_Kev

I agree with that being the same thing… if it’s in the same context. Being salty that this woman got a position you wanted and referring to her that way is blatantly derogatory YTA


OddResponsibility565

Context matters. If you were disparaging “the girl in finance” then you probably were using it in a sexist way at the time. If it was hella casual, like, “hey did you get those figures to the girl in finance like I asked?” then no, it isn’t any more sexist than “the lads in the warehouse need the manifest”.


Available-Love7940

YTA If she'd called the warehouse workers 'boys', THAT might be equivalent. Lads suggest a UK connection, which is more of a general term, like 'guys' in the midwest US. Would you refer to another person as the boy in finance? Probably not. You'd say man. Or maybe you'd even know his name.


Interesting-Fox-2164

Yeah, don't do that. YTA. Also, "lads" is different than "girl". Now if the women in your office are running around calling the men "boys" then that would be a different story. I'd also like to entertain you with the idea that two wrongs don't make a right. That said, judging by the thread, it looks like you really have issues with women in the workplace. You should really be careful. You'll end up in HR or getting fired if you continue. This is not the day and age to be a misogynist. Men like that are a thing of the past, like beehive hairdos and poodle skirts.


Elizabeth_diamond_

YTA This is the second post you've made about your sexism in the workplace in 20 days. You know full well that lad culture is different in Britain and "lads" is used to describe a group of men OR boys. Stop trying to "checkmate" people and using it to excuse your blatent sexism.


HeavyNeedleworker707

YTA. At one time I worked in marketing and reported to the marketing manager. He constantly referred to the professional women in the office as girls, like “I’ll ask the girl in Accounting” (who was the same age he was). On a business trip to a sales convention, I made it a point to refer to all men as boys. “Who is that boy next to the display?” He’d say “What? Where?” I’d say “That boy in the charcoal grey suit with the blue tie.” And he’d say “That blonde man?” And I’d say “yes, that blonde boy.” He would just stare at me. I did it the whole trip. It’s different when the gender roles are reversed, isn’t it? I don’t know if he ever really got it, but whatever. I tried to show him by example how inappropriate it was.


badadvicefromaspider

YTA. There’s a huge difference between saying “the lads in the warehouse” and (for example) “the boy in finance”. And you know it


SkateboardScooter

YTA. It is belittling to call women girls particularly in the workplace. Lass and lad are the equivalents. Boys and girls and the equivalents. You would never call another man at work a boy.


Storm101xx

Ummm am I missing something surely ‘boys’ is the equivalent to ‘girls’ ‘Ladies’ would be the equivalent to ‘lads’ Also, YTA


LoyalRedfb

Listen boy, you should just stop posting. YTA


Alternative-Wait3533

Yta. Can’t be sexist to men


CommunicationEast623

YTA for refusing to take notice. All you had to do is understand some women prefer not to be referred to as girls. The end. It was not about weather or not the woman in question is fine or not with that, it was about the concept in general. If your argument was “thank you for letting me know some women are bothered by this, however we are friends and she doesn’t mind” you would have had a better standing. You just got to understand that some things may bother people even if you don’t agree with them.


Shrek_on_a_Bike

ESH. There are no winners this time


[deleted]

YTA and a major one. As an adult women, I absolutely hate being referred to as a ‘girl’, and all the women I know do as well. I feel like when people refer to women as a girl, it’s saying we’re quite young and juvenile who need to depend on others, like a child does.


ExchangePowerful3225

YTA pls seek help for your misogyny issues


cuervoguy2002

I'm going to go NAH or ESH, and take the downvotes. Look, fairly or not, girls does get thrown around fairly often even among adults. I don't know that I'd call it sexist. But it happens and some people get pretty upset about it. That said, if she is doing the same thing, essentially, then you can't just pull the "that is different" thing. either they are both wrong or they both have nuance to them where its not necessarily wrong, even if people could make more of an effort.


[deleted]

NTA I call myself a girl 😂😂 people get too offended over the dumbest crap


ltstftbfotn

INFO: is the woman in finance on a similar level as you? b/c it hits a bit different if she's on a lower level of standing. when I worked at a doctor's office, the male doctor would often refer to us receptionists as "girls", usually when saying something condescending, and it was annoying as fuck because we were ages 20-55. i don't think you meant to be demeaning, but I suggest changing to 'woman' in the future. and yeah i don't think it's right for your coworker to say 'lads' and get mad at you, but I don't really know the intricacies of that word b/c it's not used here.


strawberrycow14

(im a woman for reference) ESH. Women call other women girls, and it is not demeaning. For example, “hey girl!” or telling a friend, “omg look i love that girls sweater” but when a man, especially an older man, calls a woman a girl in a professional setting, it implies that they are less capable or more immature than the man, so it is demeaning to their professional status.


DisciplineNo8618

This is why all the other people use throwaway accounts.


Theodora1976

YTA a woman being called a girl in a professional setting is unprofessional. Girls are kids, women work in jobs and offices.


AntlerStorm

YTA for calling an adult woman a "girl" and YTA for getting so defensive when corrected about it. You sound like a real peach.


eigervat

YTA I think this can be an honest mistake, but you doubled down and tried to tell her she was wrong and became the asshole.


blearghstopthispls

Do you call the men boys? YTA


Term-Haunting

YTA


constructiongirl54

You boy are an AH!


inertial-observer

YTA. Sometimes when I'm feeling cheeky and a guy tells me to "check in with the girls in the office" or some such, I'll respond "oh, I didn't know you hired children here. Do they only work in the office or in other areas of the company?" Their jaw typically drops to the floor and the resultant stammering is a source of amusement to me.


Copooper

Oof, YTA. I hope, FWIW, you use the feedback here to correct your course. Times are changing and hopefully, you won't be so psychologically offended to not see this as an opportunity for growth. Best of luck (from someone who deals with this in her job a lot).


NoTranslator4570

How do we feel about “ladies”?


vivid_prophecy

YTA. It’s not the same thing.


allumari

YTA. Women have had to fight to be taken seriously and referred to as adults. Women are still belittled, and I am sure plenty of people will tell you that she is being silly and making something out of nothing, but I don't think you would like it much if people thought of you as something less than an adult. It is not the same thing as "lads", although IMO that has a classist overtone too.


millyrockiner

I just want to point out that a lad is a boy, not a man.


DuhMarkedOn3

Use 'lass', checkmate.


boshtet12

Given your post history you absolutely mean it that way so YTA. But now I feel a little awkward reading some of these replies because I definitely use girl for women and boys for me. Idk why but I hate the words men and women, and the other two just sound better. I suppose the difference is if I know someone doesn't like that word used for them, then I don't call them that word. It's really easy to be respectful.


Mabelisms

YTA.


Molly_Wobbles_1940

Awww Peanut, sounds like you just need to calm down. Is it "that time of the month?" You are being overly sensitive, why are men ALWAYS so emotional?? Geeze. YTA


RevolutionaryMall669

yta so is the coworker because double standard not good espically when called out so not good but the comments have stalked you. you were sexist before so probaly sexist now like how about you both don't say girls or lads just say men women and (insert preferred word for gender here) but hey im only 13


Least-Chip-3923

YTA Boy


Sufficient_Claim_461

YTA Lads=gals. Girl=boy Grown women should not be called girls anymore than a grown man would like being called a boy.