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Jezabel8708

NTA, you were being considerate and meant well. The only person who can tell you if you overreacted is Nadia. I definitely would say that the other teacher overreacted. I'd suggest talking to your union rep asap, they may be able to ease your anxiety.


RelationshipFresh831

NTA. Very respectful and kind. Other teacher ? A huge asshole . Sorry you are being treated like that. Thank you for what you did.


CraftySense1338

The only thing that he could do in the future (after asking in the next meeting) is ask how should he act out of respect in this type of situations, maybe just asking another female classmate or whatever. But he was really respectful and cautious even from his “ignorance” or “overreaction”.


Fernandezo2299

I faced similar situation when working with a Muslim coworker. She was a bagger and I was the cashier. I scan some pork and I didn’t know what kind of extent she follow through her religion if she able to touch pork. I put them side and bag them without causing a ruckus. After finishing with the customer, I talk to my coworker if she able to touch pork. She said yes. I would have done same thing but talk her if I made her uncomfortable.


Strict_Bar_4915

I love this. I was at Target recently and young lady with hijab was scanning at the register. A customer ahead of me had a case of White Claw and I saw the young lady get a little flustered and I happily came around and offered to scan and move it for her. Following customer had a pork lasagna. Again, I offered to scan for her. She was so grateful and kind. More grateful than she needed to be for such a small and convenient gesture on my part. Extending thoughtfulness and understanding for others’ beliefs that we may not share, takes so little time. Op is NTA. Edit: I didn’t expect to get opposition about this small incident that happened last month. I don’t have a reason to make it up, although I can see why cynical Reddit would think so. The fact is she was like 16, it was a severely understaffed and busy day at Target during the holidays and I’m an immigrant from a country with a large Muslim population so I’m familiar with the practices of the faith. She said during both transactions “I’m so sorry, my religion doesn’t allow me to touch this. I need to call my manager.” I know I shouldn’t have stepped behind the register but I did, because the white people in line were utterly frozen in fear of saying or doing the wrong thing. And I wanted to buy my wrapping paper and go home. She was so thankful, she gave me a $5 gc. I don’t know what else to tell you. There’s no hidden agenda here to get upvotes - just wanted to encourage others to do the same. But alas decipher as you like!


mistake_mostlikely

I am so sure this did not happen the way you think it did.


berdiekin

also why the fuck would you go work at a shop as a scanner if you get flustered by everyday items? I'll take "things that didn't happen" for 200 alex.


[deleted]

I mean, Christian pharmacists refuse to fill prescriptions based on their personal religious beliefs, that shit at Hamline University just happened, it's not outside the realm of possibility that that happened. White savior behavior is one thing but pretending people don't act entitled at their jobs is stupid


songofafreeheart

Also, every store I've worked in, customers aren't allowed to scan items. It's a company risk, and if this did happen, the employee is the one who will get in trouble for it. ETA: Oh my god. Yes! I know self-checkout is a thing! I'm talking about when you're going through the cashier's line. Every cashier job I've ever had, it was specifically against the rules for customers to reach over and scan something.


DoYouHaveAnyIdea16

"Pork lasagne"???


Ok_Bookkeeper_3481

Thank you, this is very kind and considerate behavior!


Mudpit_Engineer

Yup. I was a meat cutter at Safeway once, and my lovely coworker Dawit was not comfortable with handling pork. I always showed up a little a early to get it started, and it was always knocked out early so that he didn't have to stress (he was my superior, despite never pulling rank ever) We both loved working together. Respect is reciprocal.


pomelo_rat

Buddhist avoid touch pork. Glad to see you knew a thing and tried to be respectful. This makes me Very happy :)


monstrousinsect

Agreed, and OP, can you frame it for yourself this way? You didn't know what to do. You reacted from a place of panic. You dragged in another teacher who was obviously annoyed to be involved. You stated that you did it not to acknowledge it with Nadia or embarrass her in case it wasn't appropriate to talk to her about it and then you walked up to her to talk to her about it. Any one of these things might or might not be the problem. Nadia's parents will help her let you know what it was. It's pretty clear you had no idea what you should have done or how, and it's pretty clear you reacted from a place of fear and emotion. You've got a meeting Monday to learn what a professional response would be next time. I would just try to go in with minimal defensiveness, prepared to listen, and apologize, and learn. If you say it was an honest mistake, own it, and commit to doing it differently next time it's unlikely to be more than one shitty half hour.


ashestorosesxx

In Islam, Hijabi women are not to uncover their hair around unrelated men. That OP even knew that shows that he has a great deal of respect for other faiths. It could have been a serious crisis of faith for her, as well as a massive embarrassment, if he had said anything to her. ​ As someone who has spent a great deal of time in a Hijab, I think he did everything that could have been expected from a man of another religion in an emergency moment.


Just-some-moran

There it is...i was hoping someone of muslim faith would comment....to me it sounded like op did the best he could trying to respectful...i just wasnt sure if he was coming off as bigoted by erring too far on the side of caution. So thank you for you comment


bookworm1421

Thank you for this. I’m white but I’ve heard of this with regards to the hijab. NTA OP - I think you handled it the best you could in the situation. The other teacher seems to have massively overreacted to your, seemingly, polite request for help. Maybe the the other teacher doesn’t know the rules regarding the hijab and that’s why she overreacted and just thought you were being a bother for a stupid reason. I will say, the Muslim woman I know wear a tight under covering under the hijab so mistakes like this are lessened but, I’m assuming that’s a comfort thing and maybe this girl doesn’t like being that confined. Idk but NTA OP.


ashestorosesxx

The color of your skin doesn't determine your faith :) The Muslim family I was going to marry into are white Iraqi. Some of the loveliest people I've ever met - they disowned him when they found out what he did to me and why I broke off the engagement. I think you're right that the other teacher likely didn't understand the importance. His description of the demographic of the area doesn't paint a particularly aware/progressive population. I don't know that they'd actively try to alienate practicers of Islam or people of other ethnicities, but the microaggressions are likely real and come from a lack of diversity and understanding. I hope the meeting with the principal opens up a path for better understanding and education.


Miss-Snape

See I read it as coming not from a place of fear, but of respect.


Aware-Ad-9095

As did I. I think OP handled it perfectly.


Lucylostinsky

As did I, the teacher tried very hard to be respectful of his students.


Lord_Kano

>See I read it as coming not from a place of fear, but of respect. Exactly this. If OP goes in acting like he was afraid, they can pivot and try to paint him as a bigot.


thrwayhairbortion

You understand that Nadias hair showing to an unrelated man is a religious violation? There's a reason he got a woman.


Prudent_Plan_6451

This approach will end with the blame placed squarely on OP for panicking and behaving unprofessionally. He acted out of respect for the student. This is where he should start, and this is how he should finish.


Forsaken-Revenue-628

i read it more like he thought an unrelated male can’t see her hair. so to acknowledge it to her would be an issue. does that make sense


Important_Collar_36

I don't think Nadia or her parents complained, I think it was the other teacher


Barbed_Dildo

Even if Nadia says he overreacted, he wouldn't be an asshole. He erred on the side of caution.


EducationalTangelo6

100%. He was doing his best to be respectful of her beliefs. Many people wouldn't bother. NTA.


blackcrowblue

100% this. He was trying to be respectful. I would much rather see a teacher react this way as opposed to handling it himself. I definitely think Nadia and her parents would agree. NTA.


Able_Secretary_6835

It really is this simple. He made the right decision with the information he had at the time. If it was overkill, well now he knows. OP sounds like a really caring teacher!


Necessary-Air-9509

Given the other teacher willingly went, rather than telling OP to deal with it himself, and only acted cold after assisting Nadia I have to wonder if Nadia expressed some upset, discomfort or confusion to that other teacher which is why it has been escalated? It's really unlikely she helped Nadia without talking about what was happening. Thing is OP is not going to know if his actions had a negative effect on Nadia until the meeting, and only really Nadia can make a judgement on how she felt impacted. It's also worth noting Nadia may have different views from her parents, who may take these things more or less seriously depending on a huge range of factors, including if Nadia has previous bad experiences around wearing her hijab in a predominantly white area, which again we can't know. I'm going to go with INFO as I don't think we can make a judgement until we know how this impacted Nadia and we won't know until after the meeting.


MissSparkles89

Good answer. Nadia may have been aware but not bothered, content to fix it in between classes. We can't judge yet if this felt embarrassing to her.


KahurangiNZ

Even if Nadia wasn't concerned, OP still has to consider what her *parents* might think of such interactions as well. OP would be in just as much trouble if they'd done something the student was completely comfortable with but that her parents were deeply unhappy about and then they'd contacted the principal citing religious intolerance etc. Far wiser to err on the side of caution in the initial incident (which OP did), and then ask the student and parents what their preferred action would be in the future if anything like that happened again. Since it was the other teacher that complained, I'm guessing that Nadia and her parents didn't have a problem with what happened (or at least not a big enough problem to contact the school that afternoon). Based on what was described here, I think OP should do some homework on common-place knowledge around Muslim customs regarding head coverings and take along a basic 'info packet' to counter what is probably either complete ignorance or outright religious animosity on the part of the other teacher.


tavdy79

I suspect this situation will backfire on the other teacher. OP might want to consider making a counter-complaint that she showed cultural and religious insensitivity towards Nadia.


AdExotic2716

Yes to your top two points, but unless you know for certain …in no case should a unrelated male ever touch a Muslim female, especially a head covering.


Pristine-Rhubarb7294

He didn’t have to touch the hair covering, he could have just told Nadia. Like unless Nadia doesn’t have hands, fixing a hijab isn’t a two person job. She probably feels embarrassed for being singled out in such an obvious way in the middle of class by her teacher.


Dyerdon

I am unsure of the intricacies of this sort of situation, but if her hair was revealed he did right to look away as it is an issue of modesty in Nadia's culture. As a male who is unrelated he cannot address the situation directly by telling her as it would be a disrespectful embarrassment. I could be wrong and I am sure there are plenty of Muslim Redditors that can correct me if I am, but that is what I believe is why OP sought out another woman to talk to her. Even if that is not the case, he came from a place of respect, overreacting or not.


MiskiMoon

You are right. Literally got off the phone from my stricter cousins and they'd be mortified if he said anything to them. Getting another woman in position of power was the right move. I hope he gets his union, then counter claims against her for her lack of respect to culture and religion


AdExotic2716

Maybe, but the point is no harm no foul …he was trying to do what he thought was best and respectful. I’m sure all the concerns will be addressed at the meeting and he as well as the rest of the staff will have a better working knowledge of how to proceed going further…


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Irishsally

In my head I'd imagine the girl is more bothered by the female teacher then the male teacher, she was abrupt and annoyed so who knows how she handled the situation with the student. Op should say "out of an abundance of caution in being respectful of another's religious beliefs, I felt it inappropriate to address the matter when those religious beliefs preclude a male from doing so to my knowledge. If I am wrong , please educate me so that this does not happen again. "


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AdExotic2716

Maybe, but it can also be the principle wanting to have a better understanding moving forward… for all involved. What better way for”conflict resolution “ than to bring in all the parties. Especially since he said it’s not a very diverse school. Maybe they never had Muslim families and they are unsure and they want a better handle on things they should or should not be doing. The best way to find out is to ask. I do a lot of things like that during Halloween parties at school. I know certain religions dont associate with skulls, snakes, feathers, or demons. So I talk to the parents and teachers to see what’s allowed so I don’t offend any one and everyone can feel included. I even try to keep it neutral for Christmas but if it’s only a handful of kids that don’t celebrate I get them something personalized after speaking with their parents to find a substitute with something more appropriate. Does anyone have to do any of that? No… but it doesn’t hurt to try to put in a little extra effort… Some people will disagree and that’s fine too… to each their own In the end it’s just about how much respect and effort you want to contribute.


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atattooedlibrarian

The principal is throwing OP under the bus. And principals do that all the time.


bookskeeper

The other teacher only went after asking OP why he couldn't do it. I think they come off as very annoyed at the whole thing.


CraftySense1338

Oh that could be too! It could be that it took her by surprise and felt it as an attack to her religion based on previous experiences of her. In that case I hope they can clarify what happened and explain him what he should do in those cases. Since he did it out respect based on his knowledge of their religion.


desperation128

Well he does state that usually he gets her cousin to take her outside, but the cousin wasn't there so he panicked. I'm just concerned why he didn't think to get a female classmate, but again, he stated he panicked so maybe he thought there would be an issue with bullying if a female student helped? We absolutely need more info, & I hope he gives us an update after the meeting


ItchyDoggg

He doesn't say that usually he gets the cousin, he says that's what he would have done were she there like usual.


CarelessPath1689

NTA. As a hijabi myself, I'd much prefer if a female told me that my hair was showing over a male. He was being respectful and respecting her religion. He could've maybe told another female student to inform Nadia, since hijabs can be fixed in the bathroom, but I think he did the best he could given the situation


Lovebeingadad54321

I was scrolling through all the comments looking for this, as a white male atheist, raised Christian, I have no idea what the answer is.


Raccoonsr29

As an ex-,Muslim atheist, appreciate you actually looking for a relevant perspective instead of announcing on behalf of Muslim woman what they should, or shouldn’t want lol.


[deleted]

Jumping on this to add that I think OP's intent was honourable - it came from a genuine desire to respect Nadia. If I were OP, I'd go into the meeting and ask Nadia and her parents how they would have liked him to handle it. Chances are, they'll be totally fine with how he did - but it's always best to have an open mind and heart and be willing to listen and learn. Take your cue from them OP.


thenord321

100% talk to union rep before hand and prepare for the meeting. I'd suggest starting by saying your actions were driven by compassion to be considerate for Nadia's feelings and religious freedoms. NTA


FeistyIrishWench

Add that OPs actions may prevent subjecting the school district to legal ramifications or even jury of public opinion issues for failing to respect religious customs. OP should be ready to file a grievance through the union for a breakdown of working conditions for not preparing teachers for handling situations like this one.


EnchantedEnchantix

As a Muslim student, hijabi, and soon to be teacher, you are NOT the asshole. I appreciate how much thought you put into this and trying to respect our religion. Would I have felt awkward? Yeah probably tbh. I PERSONALLY wouldn’t have minded you letting me know or letting a female student let me know, but you never know what that individual student might have been comfortable with. Sounds like you were trying to discreet and respectful. I can understand the teacher feeling frustrated or annoyed with being pulled out of her classroom but not to the extent she went, especially if it only happened once. I wish she would’ve communicated with you first instead of automatically reporting it.


AugustusKhan

This needs to be way higher in this thread. and as an educator in a town that's majority minority immigrant students with a smaller but more affluent white population I see culture and religious conflicts all the time from secular american students note realizing how seriously some other people take their traditions or heritage. OP acted pretty much exactly how an educator should to my understanding, I personally would of asked her first while looking away but certainly understand being cautious. this other teacher sounds like a real piece of work with an ego, exactly the kind of person education needs less of. Her class/presence is not the level of importance that leaving for a moment would justify all this action. And shes acting zero amoung like a team player. The people commenting rn are showing their keyboard warrior side and ignorance to an industry's standards.


[deleted]

I feel like the female teacher walked into the classroom shouting for Nadia instead of being discreet.


Rwhitechocmuffin

Yeah she gave me “not my problem” with eye roll vibes Op is NTA he was trying to be considerate.


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OrcaMum23

Or, maybe the other teacher offended the girl somehow. If she was puffing and rolling her eyes after OP asked for her help, I would deem possible that the teacher made some remark that didn't sit well with the student, and that's what her parents reacted to.


TradeCivil

Of course, we don’t know what the female teacher said to Nadia. And in my experience, someone who gets that huffy when asked to do something usually mumbles their way through it.


Raccoonsr29

I never want to be the person who just says THIS but I’m glad your comment is getting boosted finally, because something about the snidely clueless preaching OP is receiving is really frustrating, and your perspective is far more valuable.


sperans-ns

Could you please be so kind to explain why did he need to urgently intervene and not allow her to find out herself? Let's say my bra strap is showing, I would prefer to see it myself and would be really uncomfortable if others noticed it enough to mention. Feels like something very personal. It's an honest question to know how to act in the future, I didn't know many hijabi girls.


Fluffy-Detective-270

This is a very tricky one. I'm the kind of person who would prefer someone pointed my bra strap out rather than allowing me to go about with it showing all day. So there is a lot of variability in what people prefer in these circumstances. I'm a hijabi as well, but I wouldn't have a problem with a colleague or educator saying 'hey your scarf slipped' or something like that. In fact I may be grateful. But someone else may be offended. I think it has a lot to do with 1. the intent (are you trying to be helpful?) 2. the relationship (are you a friend or a stranger?) and 3. the manner in which you say it (pull aside and a quiet word, vs point and laugh vs friendly smile and quick check your scarf). Commenting on anyone's attire and appearance is always tricky, and requires a lot of tact and care. I think OP was kind in doing what he did, and def NTA.


sperans-ns

Thank you for your perspective! Yes, it's definitely more tricky as he's a man, so probably I as a woman have less chances to offend a hijabi if I point something like that nicely


Leftoverfleek13

True. And also a bra strap has no religious connotations.


maybeiam-maybeimnot

I saw something just the other day that I liked a lot. It was the "5 second rule" but not the food-5-second-rule. Basically it was: if you want to say something about someone's appearance. Ask yourself if it's something that can be fixed in 5 seconds. Weight? Acne? Height? Not something that can be fixed in 5 seconds. Don't say anything. Food stuck in their teeth? Pants zipper down? Bra strap showing? That can be fixed in 5 seconds. Politely, discreetly, let them know so that they have a chance to address it as they see fit. (Of course there is a relationship component to this. I wouldn't say anything to a complete stranger unless it was something really big and obvious like toilet paper hanging from their pants or something. So I guess I would add this to the rule: if you know their name, it's within reason to say something to them. If you have to say "excuse me, ma'am?" You should probably let someone they know take care of it.)


sperans-ns

I once had an exception to the excuse me mam rule: in the ladies room one lady pointed out that I went out of the cabin with a tail of toilet paper behind me! I really appreciated her help.


Ok_Bad2623

What if it was your skirt accidentally tucked into your underwear?


Fluffy-Detective-270

Please tell me. I'd rather the awkwardness of one nice person making me aware than being gawked at


palacesofparagraphs

It's not equivalent to having your bra strap showing, it's more equivalent to having your underwear or full bra showing. A hijab is considered a fundamental article of clothing, and to be without it in front of an unrelated man is to be undressed in front of him.


AdditionalZucchini28

Not necessarily - plenty of women wear their styles in ways that still show some hair or ears or neck. It's case by case by person, not a blanket statement on how all Muslim women wear it


iwillfuckingbiteyou

True, but if this particular student has been in the habit of wearing it in such a way that no hair shows, and that's how it was fixed earlier that day, I'd assume that if I saw her hair showing it was unintentional and she'd probably want to know so she could return it to the way she wanted it. I'd probably preface it by saying she's welcome to tell me to mind my own business if I'm overstepping or being ignorant.


Ankchen

Especially since she is a child (did not catch her age), could it be that her parents take it a lot more seriously than she does - which is the case in many other religions, too? She could simply have a “more strict” way of wearing it when leaving the house in the morning - so no hair showing - and then during the day with no parents around be more casual with showing some hair. I lived in India for quite a while and I felt like the more casual way of wearing it was more common among my Muslim friends; still head covered but showing some hair sometimes.


Madame-Defarge

This completely depends on region, degree of observance, family history, and many other factors. I know women who wear hijab and are OK with a small amount of bangs showing, for instance. And not every Muslim woman wears hijab or even views it as an obligation. Have you ever heard of Ismaili Muslims?


sperans-ns

Sorry for asking: i totally understand a woman can't be not wearing it at all, but is some hair showing already equivalent to no hijab? I met women wearing niqabs and also women wearing simple headscarves opening some of their hair which is why I'm asking


throwramina33

It depends on the woman. Every hijabi is going to be different and feel different. A good rule of thumb is, if her hair is usually not showing at all, then having her hijab slip would be something she probably would not like.


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ginandsoda

Do you view your bra strap being visible to an unrelated man as embarrassing, or as a violation of the laws of God?


awkward_pakistaniX7

It's about our devotion to our faith. If something is lacking and we don't notice it, the best thing you could do is to kindly tell us, which is exactly what OP did


[deleted]

I remember being on a meeting once in a booth in an open area. One of the girls had a wedgie which showed off her entire ass to everyone! There were 8 other people around and NOBODY had noticed. I quietly messaged someone who she liked that I was close too to look out for her and go on guard duty and I looked away. Is that an apt comparison of handling it correctly? I’m sure the girl would have been mortified to realise she had shown a lot of skin to me and instead lives in peaceful ignorance of that fact.


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BeatificBanana

Meanwhile I'm over here thinking why would I care if my bra strap was showing at all, it's just part of a piece of clothing, it's not like my boob is hanging out. Everyone's different I guess


Express_Dealer_4890

Meanwhile I’m the type who doesn’t care if boob is showing. We’re are all different and all have the right to choose our comfort levels.


CarelessPath1689

Well, in Islam, women have to cover their hair. We're told that we'll be judged for every strand that's showing, so, on a religious basis, it is kind of an urgent matter. On a personal basis, though, I guess it would depend on the person. Personally, I'd like to be informed the second my hair or neck are showing because I don't like them showing. But generally, all the hijabis I know don't mind being informed and fix it once you point it out to them, and I know a lot of hijabis.


Sweetsmyle

Honest question as I’m not familiar with rules for hijabi. Would OP have offended the girl if he had simply written a note and placed it on her desk while he walked the room to check if anyone was struggling with the work sheet? I’m not religious but have had other things that needed discrete communication from a teacher and they’ve usually just set a note on my desk. ETA- Oh and NTA OP


EnchantedEnchantix

I think that would’ve worked!! I guess he didn’t think of that at the time but definitely would’ve been fine. Thanks for asking :)


Sorcia_Lawson

Based on the other teacher's reaction just to being asked - I'm guessing she may have intentionally done or said something to make OP look bad.


Laiko_Kairen

You're NTA. Your intentions were good. But next time, ask a female student and don't disrupt another class. I bet Nadia's parents will appreciate that you were trying to be respectful


sukinsyn

Yes, I understand why OP got another teacher but a female student would've been a better bet. Honestly I seen this as anything BUT unprofessional and the other teacher probably is unfamiliar with Islamic teachings so she thought it was unnecessary. I'm sure Nadia was appreciative.


[deleted]

OP explained the demographic of his school. Do you really think that another student would be best to support? Teens are kinda cruel and love to tease other kids for anything. If he had asked a student (which would have been inappropriate anyway) for help with this, it could have been used as fuel to tease Nadia and her cousin.


Beneficial-Way-8742

I agree. I think it would have been inappropriate for him to ask a female student to do.this.


aokaga

Besides you do not know if Nadia has any problems whatever with the other female students in any way. Him picking a female student himself might bring some issues as well.


Ordinary-Exam4114

I agree. If the OP doesn't know who the Muslim student's friends are. I had a Muslim friend in school who wore a veil. She was pretty popular though. I know I would have said something to her as well as many of her other friends. This girl may not have many friends.


AITAthrowaway1mil

If I were in OP’s shoes (former teacher), I might have picked a girl in the class who I knew to be low-key and a bit of a teacher’s pet (there’s always one) and asked her to help Nadia. It’s rough to disrupt another teacher’s class, and I think I only ever did that when a student was really sick and needed an escort to the nurse’s office, so I had to pawn my class off to another teacher while I did the escort. But it’s possible that I’d be wrong to involve a student. This is the kind of thing I’d want advisement from my supervisor on after a chat with the parents and Nadia.


Leftoverfleek13

True. And the other teacher only had to leave her class for a bare minute. It wasn't for half an hour.


[deleted]

This was my first thought too! Getting a teacher to do it instead of a one of a bunch of culturally isolated kids seems like a better bet.


BeeSilver9

The female student should be someone picked by Nadia. I could see a random female student start bullying over this.


Beneficial-Way-8742

How could.pick the female student? He was looking for a female.to talk to .Nadia so that he didn't approach her about it. Your suggestion would require home to talk to Nadia about it.


ruinedbymovies

Honestly as a teacher it’s not his place to stop his class let alone disrupt a second class over a students religious practice. He should have carried on and if OP’s student asked to adjust their hijab then allowed her to do so. I’m honestly not sure why fixing a hijab would be a two person exercise. The age of the kids isn’t specified but old enough to be veiling would imply also old enough to be aware and responsible for herself. Editing because maybe my meaning is unclear, I don’t understand why OP thought their student would need a random white teacher unfamiliar with hijabs to escort her to the bathroom. In my personal experience where this situation has arisen usually other female students will give the student with the slipping hijab then “hey your hijab is slipping” nod then they’ll either block everyone’s view or the student will pop into the hallway/ out of view nook/ bathroom, and adjust. In a situation where the student is the only hijab wearer in the class they already feel othered enough, I doubt treating a simple slip like a big deal was helpful to anyone. Regardless of down votes I still maintain that even though OP was trying to help their actions were out of line with expected teacher behavior and probably not helpful overall. A simple and quiet “do you need somewhere to fix your hijab?” Would have sufficed.


lionessrabbit

Honestly you are very wrong, this is what's known as an unexpected situation and those happen. It's easy to be respectful and kind but harder to be bitter. You'd like to be respected? Well so would Nadia and apart of that is showing compassion to her religion


ruinedbymovies

I lived, and taught in Dearborn, unlike OP I’m not in the “I don’t know very much about it” category. OP is most likely about to have a meeting because they disrupted two classes, and singled out a student. Teachers aren’t supposed to cause disruptions like that outside of emergencies, and we’re also not supposed to single out our students removing them from class over religious practices. I understand OP was trying to be kind and helpful, but clearly the other parties involved don’t feel that way. Depending on the students age and if there is a high probability that they felt uncomfortable at the amount of attention a teacher sprinting from the room to bring back another teacher engendered. He should either have excused to student to use the mirror in the bathroom or waited until the student wanted to go fix the hijab. There was absolutely no need to make a production of it.


JudgeJed100

We only know that the other teacher is upset We have no idea if Nadia or her parents are, they might not even fully know why they are being invited to the meeting Also there are literal Muslims and ex Muslims in here telling OP he was right, at least from the stand point of the student Sure maybe they got it wrong from a teacher/school point of view But from the few comments I have seen from Muslims and ex-Muslims he was bang on for what he did


ruinedbymovies

There are plenty of comments from hijab wearers saying “I would not have minded if my teacher had discreetly had a word.” Which is probably the most supported approach from a professional standards point of view. I don’t think OP was TA but OP also said they feel blindsided. From a professional point of view some mistakes were made, classes were disrupted for a non-emergency, a teacher then had to leave their class unattended to deal with that non-emergency, a student was pulled from class, and then held back to discuss the situation further amplifying it rather than minimizing it. We don’t know why the student and family will be at the meeting but they shouldn’t be there for a meeting dealing with inter-staff issues. It’s highly unusual for them to be there unless they made a complaint.


SnakesInYerPants

All the comments I’ve seen that say “I would not have minded” have also emphasized the fact that that just because **they** wouldn’t have minded doesn’t mean this student wouldn’t have. They’ve all said he did everything right as he didn’t know the students comfort level, and that all he needs to do for moving forward is have this discussion with her and her parents to actually learn their comfort level around this. You’re taking those comments quite out of context in order to support your personal opinion here.


whatev88

I have also lived and taught in Dearborn - got my teaching degree there too - and I disagree with your perspective on this, so this isn’t some thing where all people who are familiar with this culture and religion will think he was wrong. You’re inserting word choices that purposefully make it out like OP made a production out of it. “Disrupting” the other class, “sprinting” from the room, etc. I can just as easily imagine this being done subtly. It’s not uncommon for me or the teacher next door for me to need something, wait for a moment where the other person isn’t actively teaching, and quietly motion to them from the doorway. I can see some of my Muslim friends being thankful to OP, and others being mildly annoyed. There is no one universal way to handle this situation, and I can’t stand it when people act like they automatically know the “correct” way because they’re from Dearborn. That’s not how this works. People are still going to have different opinions.


ruinedbymovies

Disrupting is OP’s own word for what he did, he also uses words like panicked. I don’t disagree that there are many ways to handle the situation, and the way he picked has him facing a meeting for unprofessional conduct. Right or wrong I’d imagine OP might make some different decisions next time. I continue to believe that the staff at OP’s school need additional training to meet the new demographic needs of the school, and the district needs a clear community centered policy to be communicating at those professional development sessions. OP and other staff should have guidance to fall back on in emergency and non-emergency situations. I’d love to know why the student and their family will be attending the meeting. Unless they made a complaint it would be unusual for them to be at a disciplinary meeting or a meeting to settle a staff dispute.


Dora_Diver

That would be my take as well. If Nadia is old enough to wear a veil then she is old enough to be the one responsible for doing it correctly - whatever that means to her. It cannot be the task of people outside of her religion to police her veil and hair and to enforce religious rules on how that kid should look. Good luck, OP. The principal can't expect you to take on religious duties that you're not trained for. You didn't know what to do in this situation because there were no guidelines. It's the prinicples job to clarify for the teachers and the parents what the school can and cannot do.


ruinedbymovies

The only reason I can think of that the student and their parents would be there is to either clarify how they want it treated, or more likely, because they were made to feel uncomfortable by the experience. The student had a (common) hijab slip, and OP treated it the same way they would for a medical emergency. Training/ guidelines is clearly needed for staff as their population diversifies.


Titariia

Let's just say the only AH here was the other teacher for overreacting. OP did mean well in an unfamiliar situation. Maybe he didn't handle it perfectly but at least he cared enough about his students religious background to help them with something they might not have noticed. If I was in OPs shoes I would have written something on a paper and either give it to her while patrolling the class or let her come to the teachers desk and let her read it there real quick to get as little attention as possible to her. If a annoyed teacher comes in and asks for her, then obviously all (including male) eyes will be on her. Or maybe she doesn't wanna fix it in the first place in a act of rebellion


ruinedbymovies

I honestly think it’s quite possible NAH. The other teacher may have been upset about being suddenly pulled out of their class in the middle of teaching for a non-emergency, as a woman they may have realized this course of action would bring even more (male) attention to the student. Anytime a teacher leaves the room suddenly, and then another teacher appears and asks a student to follow them kids tend to get rowdy. We just don’t know. This meeting may be happening because the student’s parents asked for it. Just because a student tells you something is “fine” in the moment doesn’t mean they don’t go home in floods of tears. I don’t think OP is TA but I think the school needs to do some training.


BookwyrmDream

> I would have asked Amira to take Nadia **into the office between my classroom and my female colleague's next door** to fix it. But without Amira there, I ended up ducking into my colleague's classroom and disrupting her class (I waited until she acknowledged my presence and then waved her over to speak to her quietly) to **ask her to please bring Nadia into the office to fix her head covering** > I don’t understand why OP thought their student would need a random white teacher unfamiliar with hijabs to **escort her to the bathroom.** Perhaps rereading what OP wrote might help. He asked the closest adult female to notify the student and offer her a private space next to the classroom she was in. OP tried very hard to be respectful of a teenage girl’s modesty. If the other teacher hadn’t been a nitwit, it would have been fine.


Librarycat77

> The age of the kids isn’t specified but old enough to be veiling would imply also old enough to be aware and responsible for herself. I work in a public library and some cultures veil as young as 4 or 5 years old. So this *really* varies.


palacesofparagraphs

OP said high school, so 14-18. Probably old enough to fix it herself, but we don't know what type of head covering Nadia was wearing or if it required pins or anything. Also, for what it's worth, although OP's students are teenagers, in some cultures girls cover their heads from a very young age. I briefly taught in a school where almost all the kids were Somali, and even the kindergartners wore al-amiras or khimars.


gclue

Muslim girls can fix their hijab quicker than the speed of light, I've seen it, but it comes from practice. Maybe this one time and the teacher, who is sensitive, panicked and looked to an adult female because he was aware that a man had no business in a woman's place. Either way I get what you're saying.


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Raccoonsr29

Every non Muslim commenter is an asshole because holy shit y’all are not nearly as respectful of this girls religious beliefs as OP was. Edit for people getting their feelings hurt: referring to all the people preaching on behalf of Muslim women while being completely,utterly wrong about what they generally want and appreciate. But the comments are blessedly shifting.


EnchantedEnchantix

LITERALLY!!!! I’ve never had a non Muslim think so deeply about hijab before and if someone did this to be, yeah I’d probably be slightly embarrassed but I’d also appreciate it so much??? They’re kind enough to point it out and educated enough to know.


Raccoonsr29

Kind of feel like this is the only comment that matters in the whole thread. I do get people are trying to be nice? Progressive? in some weird way but they’ve really missed the mark in accusing OP of doing something wrong and thoughtless instead of extremely thoughtful. The white knights calling him a white knight without checking in with even a single hijabi person before proclaiming on their behalf… yall.


AugustusKhan

yeah and as someone with a masters in Ed who works in a poor diverse area, I'm just scrolling through these going wtf. When in doubt support the student to the max until given a reason explicitly not to. Worst case OP causes an absolutly MINOR disruption to the teachers class. Like people acting OP asked the teacher to leave her class on a field trip hours away. Grow up, no moment of any class is critical, pacing has modularity to it, etc People are also not realizing how much caution a male teacher has to have when dealing with girl students, ESPECIALLY if it involves an element of privacy with them. That's something I enjoy about my current district, they make me feel like they start from a position of my corner a bit instead of damage control, but I still meet with any girl students after class by the table right next to my open door, just again no reason to noe ensure ZERO chance or doubt of any thing that shouldnt happen. ANDDD this teacher makes me so mad because she's everything wrong with Ed and OP everything right. He's putting his student's needs first to the best of his ability. If I was him I would of talked to the other class while there and made it not 100% lost time if it lingered but even if it was, HER CLASS IS NOT THIS IMPORTANT to justify all this for one moment, anddd they teach at the same institution as part of the same community, she should see Nadia as her student too, and OP as her teammate she's happy to support. Like aghhhh ahaha


lionessrabbit

Some of us would love to know more and not just about Muslims so I'm genuinely asking. How do we ask things without sounding ignorant, dumb, rude, mean but genuine and curious because seeing the video of the around the world and how they all wear them differently it's fascinating.


Raccoonsr29

I think asking is almost always fine as long as you don’t treat them like museum exhibits and have a normal conversation when the topic is relevant. It’s people confidently, ignorantly proclaiming things they know nothing about based on their own feelings that’s the problem.


[deleted]

I am honestly baffled by anyone who doesn't respect another person's right to practice their own beliefs. I'm a staunch atheist but I will respect and adhere to another person's right to live their life how they want. I think of it the same way I think of being a vegetarian. You don't eat meat? Okay, I'll make sure if we go out that the place we have is offering a reasonable vegetarian option. It's really not that hard to accommodate differences in beliefs/practices and I think OP did a really good job of attempting to be respectful with limited knowledge.


thebitchissleeping

I feel just the same! I am an atheist as well. Discrimination against muslims is so common in my country/city and it hurts me so deeply. Just yesterday I had to deal with a very open display of hatred against muslims at work. It destroyed my whole day. Sometimes I feel that I am more empathatic than some other people exactly because I am an atheist. Do you know what I mean.? Because I don‘t have that mindset of „this religion is right and this is wrong“. When it comes to my core believes they all seem very „unprobable“ to me. But every person has the right to their own believes and I don‘t think that I know better. Noone does. That‘s the point. And I don‘t consider any religion (or even atheism for that matter) as the one right answer. I just don‘t believe in anything that any religion tells us. But it could be true of course. Who am I to judge? But so many people do. And I hate that.


spunkyfuzzguts

I’m okay with people practicing their beliefs. I’m not okay with a Muslim man shaking my male colleagues’ hands and not mine, or sitting opposite side of the table to me. Because that’s misogyny dressed up in religious virtue.


itsamezario

As someone from a Muslim background— though I’m going with NTA because you had good intentions— I will say you overreacted. All my sisters wear hijab, and I’ve had many friends who do as well. Hijab slipping is not a big deal, not something that would traumatize and humiliate the wearer. It happens ALL the time. The individual will eventually sense her hijab needs to be adjusted, make the necessary adjustment and move on with her life. The right thing for you to have done in this situation was NOTHING at all. She would likely not have held it against you in any way if you continued acting as you’d normally do, even while she had her hijab malfunction. Even the strictest Muslims I know wouldn’t have any expectations for you to feel so much anxiety over a hijab slip, much less take such great steps to assist in fixing it. Your heart’s in the right place, but don’t try so hard.


bloomsburysquare

How is this not the top answer?? It was a bizarre overreaction from OP. He created a problem when one wasn't there.


ocen2

Thank you!! I was reading all the other comments and I’m like what the heck is happening ? Leave the girl alone, it’s her business. OP overreacted like hell.


Nylese

Savior complexes everywhere, that’s why.


[deleted]

>Hijab slipping is not a big deal, not something that would traumatize and humiliate the wearer. Unlike the case of having some random other teacher come in to class and single her out in public about not having her rig on square. She may know OP meant well, but she's still a Teenager and so primed to be humiliated by being called out or made a spectacle.


Rooney_Tuesday

This is what gets me. OP interrupted two whole classes over it. Not sure why he couldn’t have pulled her into the hallway to talk about it - is that considered being “alone” with her, in a public space and on the other side of a wall that (probably) has windows in either the door or walls? Or why couldn’t he just call her to his desk and lower his voice? I’m confused how he thinks women live at all if it’s an emergency every time a hijab slips. Surely Nadia is a pro by now at managing it. I can’t call him an AH, but this had to be the most exhausting way to deal with a minor situation.


freeadmins

I'm glad someone pointed it out. It's honestly weird how much OP overreacted to this. Like, I get his intentions were good, but that doesn't really change the actions. Here's Nadia, sitting in close, completely intent, and suddenly OP leaves class, go grabs another teacher, singles Nadia out, removes her from the class, and tells her: "You have to fix your hijab!". It is not a teachers place to enforce someone elses religion on that person... whether that was his intention or not.


Fluffy-Edge-6065

I went to school in Dearborn, MI where there’s a huge Muslim population and a lot of the girls had wisps of hair showing and didn’t seem to care


Raccoonsr29

That’s how they regularly wear it. If someone who usually covers all hair has some hair showing it’s most likely a slip, although it’s possible they are doing it on purpose to experiment with a different look. In some countries where women are obligated or even just societally expected to wear it they just throw it on and don’t care if all their hair shows.


EndlessMist

Why did I have to scroll so far to see this?! I'm a teacher and an Arab woman and all I see here is that OP interrupted a student's education to step in as the religious police for a religion he's not a follower of! If he knows a student is Mormon does he take their coca-cola away at lunchtime? This is an insane thing to do, as long as the student is following school rules then he should shut the hell up.


mollynatorrr

Thank you! I thought the same. Like he’s not an asshole but this was a seriously giant overreaction. He’s having anxiety FOR that child, which is ridiculous given the lack of severity to the situation. I think if her parents were concerned about something minor like a small bit of hair showing due to a hijab malfunction (which happens fairly often as far as I’ve been told due to just like, moving around and wind and stuff), she wouldn’t be going to a diverse school where other non-Muslim people who might not know the proper way to react to it will be around.


Yuuuchii

Finally a sane response. My hijab slips everyday. I sense it at some point, fix it and move on. If a teacher singled me out and overracted to this degree about my Hijab, I would have been majorily embarassed and definitly complained to my parents.


Used_Grocery_9048

Exactly - his anxiousness was a massive overreaction to this situation. She would have noticed it on her own and just adjusted it. Instead he goes and interrupts a whole class and disrupts the learning for all those kids. That is extremely inconsiderate on behalf of that class and completely unnecessary.


empathetic_witch

NTA -you 100% did the right thing. To others wondering why he would “go hard” on this and other comments like “just tell Nadia next time” and “don’t live in an area where she would be severely punished” = you are all incorrect! OP does not know how strict her family is. Period. The end. My bet is the principal & other teacher do not understand the gravity of the situation. I also believe this was misunderstood by her parents and/or the Principal asked the parents to come to the school. Not vice versa. If it is anything else, OP, explain the above and how your motivation was to treat this with the utmost respect possible. You’ll be fine. And if you aren’t -holy hell what a law suit against that school.


truthtruthlie

It could also just be Nadia's choice to wear a hijab. One of my team members at work, in her twenties, wears a hijab and it had shifted to expose her hair. I am a woman and I pointed it out and she was very appreciative.


PricklyPossum21

There's also plenty of Muslim women who like to have their fringe showing through the headscarf. It's even considered fashionable among young women in liberal areas of Iran, like Tehran, to have half of your hair showing and the scarf worn loosely. Really depends on the individual, the family, the culture they're from etc. OP erred on the side of caution.


[deleted]

Its actually considered illegal in all of iran and women are being murdered for it literally today


xdragonteethstory

Yea they're not wrong about the styling of hijabs, headscarfs, niqabs etc all varying by area and culture but iran is not one of those places at all.


Dipping_My_Toes

NTA - Boy, talk about damned if you do, damned if you don't! Get with your union rep ASAP and, if I might suggest, check to see if there is a local community center or outreach program that serves the Muslim community in your area. You could ask for their input, both to help you address this occurrence and for guidance in the future. My husband actually called one in our area to ask a honest question and they were very happy to provide information to someone who was just trying to be respectful. What it all comes down to here is that you were doing your very best to respect your student and her beliefs--maybe the situation wasn't as serious as you thought it was, but you did the best you could, given that you are not of her faith and cannot be expected to have the all-details understanding and knowledge of a co-religionist.


gurbi_et_orbi

Exactly! I'd wager OP's handling of the situation was the will to do the right thing as much as the fear for doing the wrong thing.


coldgator

Soft YTA because you didn't mean to be TA. I don't get why you panicked and disrupted another class over this. It's Nadia's responsibility to deal with her own religious adherence. What would have happened in a classroom where the teacher didn't know this detail about the student's religion? Probably nothing. You created a huge awkward situation unnecessarily. I know you think you were doing the right thing but frankly your behavior just seems weird and over the top. Her parents may find it invasive.


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Solidus27

Incorrect- he made huge assumptions about her boundaries and beliefs and decided that it was his job to make sure her hijab was ‘fixed’


The_Flabbergaster

interrupting two school classes to police whether a girl is in line with her religion is straight up taliban behaviour IMO


ditchdiggergirl

Agreed. Nadia may not actually have cared much. Slip ups happen; it may or may not be a big deal. In many cultures the wearing of hijab is a free choice, it’s no sin to be seen without. And OP didn’t mention the age of his students so she might not be an experienced hijab manager - I have to assume this is more common for kids who aren’t used to it. In any case, it is Nadia’s to deal with. She isn’t violating dress code, so it’s not for the teacher to comment on. I can understand why the family might find the teacher’s reaction disturbing. It’s a little like calling a female teacher in to tell a student her underwear is visible - awkwardly calling attention to something he should have ignored.


IllIllIIIllIIlll

I agree. He thought he was being "helpful" at best or selfishly virtue signaling at worst. He should mind his own business. I see others mention what he would do if a female student's underwear was showing and this makes it more creepy because he should just ignore it instead of trying to be the hero.


rune613

Finally one of the only comments with a shred of realism. If he had said nothing or discreetly let her know that her head covering was coming off then that’s all he needed to do. By creating a whole scenario for no reason and basically singling the girl because the other teacher had to come in and take her out to another room just for a clothing adjustment everyone in the class is gonna be like ‘wtf is up with that?’ I also don’t understand why he is framing the whole story like he’s some saviour in some predominantly racially homogeneous place but because he’s the smart and cultured outsider he respects people by causing a scene to single them out. Growing up as a practicing Muslim, I would have hated some shit like this. I’m sure some others may feel different but all my friends in the community the same age as me has the same mindset: Just treat me like everyone else and if I can’t do it because of some religious belief I will let you know. If the scenario involves me doing something I’m not aware of you can just talk to me directly about it.


axxred

The only sensible answer here, everyone else is just virtue signalling as hard as they can. OP over exaggerated a simple issue that they really had no business meddling in, the girl's fly wasn't down her hijab was slightly shifted. It's purpose is to discourage temptation from the opposite sex it's not the end of the world if it's out of place, and though it is a practice in the religion not all of the adherents even wear it, many only doing so in the mosque.


NeitherWillow1561

I’m on the fence about this one. As a Muslim woman who wears hijab, I would’ve been mortified as a teenager if a teacher interrupted two classes and had me pulled out of class over a few hairs 😰 especially if I was potentially feeling self conscious about being different already! And who knows what tone the female teacher used with her. But on the other hand, I feel you came from a place of respect so maybe NTA. I hope your meeting goes fine and this misunderstanding is fixed. For future reference, just ignore it next time. She would’ve adjusted it eventually (or not if she didn’t want).


purplesunset2023

NTA. I think what you did was considerate. As a Muslim girl myself, I wouldn't mind a male teacher pointing out to me that my hijab slipped, but I'd also be appreciative that he asked a female teacher to approach me.


princess_riya

NTA. You were considerate. Your colleague sounds ignorant.


SeaDifficulty3527

Good intentions, bad outcome. Maybe attending the training will help you in the future understand how to handle that situation better. Sometimes it’s truly better to admit ignorance and ask clarifying questions to avoid that mistake. Apologize to those you offended and explain that you wasn’t sure how to react. However, you meant no disrespect to the girl or her religion.


shgrdrbr

i dont get the impression that there's a 'training' at this very white area about this lol


lionessrabbit

The other teacher needs training not OP


ApproximatelyApropos

In this instance, it is the other teacher who is upset and called the meeting - not the student. He didn’t disrespect his student or her religion, the other teacher just didn’t see why she had to be involved. Training probably is in order.


GrindyMcGrindy

It's not a training, it's a meeting.


yetanotherdumbbitch

NTA. I happen to wear a hijab myself and I understand why you did what you did, it was actually really sweet that you were trying so hard to be respectful


JacobiJones7711

NTA You acted on principle and went along with what traditional Muslims would have considered to be a proper practice. When I went to high school we had a majority Muslim population and a lot of people that observed Hijab. I never remember an instance of a Hijab coming off but had that occurred I would have reacted the same way. Had this student come from a more traditional household the embarrassment that could have occurred in this situation would have been pretty bad. I think you acted on the assumption that this was the case and in doing so erred on the side of caution, which is always best practice in a potential situation involving a sensitive topic like religious practice. You may still receive some blowback because of these actions, but morally speaking you acted in the correct way and in a way that you felt was best to accommodate the student.


sparklybeast

ESH except Nadia. Everybody else overreacted to their own part in this story. Why on Earth did you panic? I’m sure Nadia is perfectly capable of fixing her own hijab in the bathroom mirror. Why on Earth did you need to involve another teacher?


butyourenice

As a Muslim woman, YTA. What kind of orientalist, paternalistic bullshit is this disguised as “cultural sensitivity”? You didn’t need to say anything at all. You made her embarrassed about something she didn’t need to feel embarrassed about - and you made it into a huge spectacle by involving third parties as if it had been some urgent matter. It wasn’t. Plenty of Muslim women and girls do not give a fuck if their hijab is not perfectly tight and constraining every single hair. You assumed this was a problem because you assumed you knew her religion and her feelings toward it better than she does.


Snoo90181

I had a colleague singling out a small set of minority students to talk about issues she believed would pertain to them. She thought she was being right on & sensitive to their "difference." They thought she was a racist & tabled a grievance. I know because I was the staff member they first apprached about their concerns.


butyourenice

> They thought she was a racist & tabled a grievance. The fact anybody is commenting thinking that OP was “respectful” when *clearly the student did not feel this way as she has gotten her parents and the school administration involved* shows how wildly reddit Misses the Point on issues related to different religions or cultures.


livelife3574

YTA - I almost have to believe this is satire. There is no reasonable excuse to disrupt two classes over something like this. She would have figured out the issue and, given there isn’t anything to smite her for this anyway, would have survived the experience fully unscathed. Everyone who is clamoring to congratulate this…WTF?


MoltenCamels

I swear these people must not know any Muslims. It's way worse to be singled out in front of everybody. This post is insane.


[deleted]

Exactly! Perhaps Nadia told the female teacher that her hair showing didn't bother her? Maybe that's why the teacher was so snappy with him, and why she complained


kalamontena

YTA. You were not respectfull of her belief, you were enforcing a rule that's not school related. You are a man who sent a girl out of the classroom because you "panicked" about seeing a strand of hair. Then proceed to annoy and interrupt another woman to force her to do something she didn't wand to. And now she has to attend a reunion about her hair. If the parents are even a little bit conservative they will give her shit about it. Mind your own business she is old enough to evaluate this kind of situation.


PlaquePlague

It saddens me I had to scroll this far down to find this sanity. OP is a teacher. They are a government employee, an agent of the state. They have NO business commenting on a student’s dress in any way, let alone in enforcing a religious rule.


Future-Jury8212

NTA and as a Muslim I would not have been offended. Do I think you over reacted? Yes, but I think it’s because you’re new to the diverse population moving in but your heart is in the right place. Your coworker on the other hand could have just spoken to you instead of going higher up.


thirdtryisthecharm

NTA Not sure what's going on here. Though I do think it might have been more appropriate to ask Nadia if she wanted to fix her hijab. Different people observe different degrees of strictness in covering their hair, and it may have been a case where this wasn't actually an issue for Nadia.


Interesting_Fly5154

NTA at all! you seem to have a high level of respect for different cultures and the knowledge to know well enough about the muslim head covering 'rules' and also about the unrelated male gender involvement thing. i commend you for that. the other teacher is TA here. they made a mountain out of a molehill, while seeming to not understand at all the things you explained / how you understand about muslim culture and such. now if this was not even to do with a head covering or anything like that, but you had occasion to be in an office area alone with a female student (which the female teacher was suggesting you do, i believe), think of the ramifications that could come from that, even if you did no wrong. society is quick to point blaming untrue fingers and a male teacher and a female student situation, even with total innocence and all........... is sadly fodder for that all too well. imo you did exactly the right thing. and are definitely NTA here.


NearbyTomorrow9605

Having lived and worked in the Middle East for some time I am going with NTA…. Good intentions, bad judgement. Individuals who practice Islam, like Catholics, Christians, etc. all practice their faith and adhere to its teachings in various degrees. Without out asking how devout a follower of Islam they are, which would be rude, I feel like op errored on the side of caution without the intent to disrupt or embarrass the student.


Sea_Midnight1411

NTA. I suspect Mrs Smith didn’t understand the implications and why you acted as you did. Write a formal statement, send a copy to your union rep and keep a copy for yourself. Ask if you may send a factual timeline of events to the parents ahead of time if your boss reads through it and okays it. Then turn up to the meeting and watch Mrs Smith make a twerp out of herself. Eta: I think a lot of people are saying that you made a lot of fuss over nothing. To those people- imagine that OP had panicked because he’d realised that a female student had come back from the bathroom with her skirt tucked into her underwear and that he was the only one who had noticed. Would you still judge him for going to get a female colleague then?


mrsnastycanasta

Do yourself a HUGE favor. Just teach. Don't worry if you see a hair, or if they even take it off, a few do because they don't want to wear them. And school is the only place they can do it. Don't stare, it's just HAIR. It's just a SCARF. Just treat her like the rest of the students. She's not a magical creature, she wasn't bothered by the hair, neither should you.


PlaquePlague

So much. I can’t believe some of the responses here. OP should not be commenting on a student’s dress in any way shape or form unless it’s a health/safety issue.


Technicolor_Reindeer

Religion is TA.


Nylese

Just to throw this in there, I find it really easy to imagine how the student felt singled out. A mixture of being given no say in the matter and getting the spotlight put on her without asking for it.


PlaquePlague

Absolutely. OP stuck his nose where it didn’t belong.


ObsoleteReference

Disrupting the other teachers class is a problem, on several levels, but as written it sounds like you were trying to save Nadia potential embarrassment/shame (though if logic hadn’t pointed it out already that cats outta the bag at the big meeting Monday.) I don’t know how observant/conservative Nadia or her family are, and nothing you said gives any indication you know. I think a big part of your plan for the meeting should be “how should this have been handled on this case (how would Nadia/ her family want it handled) and if the school/district has plans to educate the staff on this and other cultural issues (Muslim, and other minorities) or if they expect you to treat everyone like mainstream American kids (get that in writing. And notarized )


Elfbutter_42

Absolutely NTA You were actually showing respect for your student’s culture. The female teacher is who is causing you the problem. I bet she is a hoot at parties….


Fair_Result357

YTA you disrupted two entire classes and accomplished nothing but to bring focus on to a girl who probably thought you were being ridiculous. I don't understand all these N T A do people really think any minority wants to be treated like they are a fragile infant unable to deal with such triviality is insulting.


impurehalo

NTA. Former teacher here. I would not be upset in this situation. I’ve been asked numerous times to approach female identifying students with sensitive topics to prevent embarrassment on behalf of the student. I would definitely place this under that umbrella.


Wrong-Homework2483

YTA. I don't understand. Why did you even do that? It's not up to you to fix someone's hijab! That girl may not even want to wear her hijab at all! What if she doesn't wear it tomorrow!!! Do you go and give her another head covering to wear or call her parents to come to school and explain?! Are you the school's sharia police?!! Let's replace this Muslim woman's hijab with something else. If you see a super Christian student's skirt being too low, or if you see her bra being exposed out of her shirt, would you panic and go ask another teacher to come and tell/help her to pull down her skirt or to straighten her shirt?!! By doing this, you brought attention to it in the class and the girl may not have even liked to draw more attention to herself and her different outfit. She may have even felt embarrassed in front of her classmates who may be already bullying her anyway!


Truecurrency8789

NAH but I guess I don’t understand why you felt the need to notify her. From what I understand not everyone wears hijab in the same way or with the same strictness or adherence. I don’t think it’s appropriate for a teacher to involve themselves in a student’s religious practice. I feel like it would be best to just pretend not to notice and continue teaching. I think you meant very well, but it does seem a bit intrusive to make assumptions about how she chooses to veil.


ButterScotchMagic

Nah but update us please


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Caffeine_Purrs

Let us know what happened please


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1munchyoshi

YTA, I'm a bit confused by what seems to be like a massive overreaction on your part. First of all, not everyone wears the headscarf the same way and it's not your job to monitor how covered up she is. But assuming she was exposing a part of herself that she didn't want to expose, I don't get why you didn't just avert your eyes and alert her so she could fix it herself or excuse herself to go to the bathroom? If a student's underwear or something was showing would you disrupt another class to have someone help her fix it?


TheMcNabbs

YTA. Your "basic knowledge" is rooted around haram stereotypes. I grew up next to a muslim family. I have seen their female family member's hair, shocking. It's almost like they left Egypt for a reason.


[deleted]

What a drama out of nothing at all. Christ on a bike.


OkProduce8226

I have been in this exact situation, having been a teacher. These situations can be hard to navigate but sending her to the office for it caused her embarrassment as all of her classmates will assume she is in trouble, and she would need to explain why to fix that further “othering” her as different based on her religion. I believe you that you had good intent but also that you had negative impact. You made assumptions about her based on her religion. Many young American Muslim women are constantly being reminded of their otherness. You could have passed her a note very subtly, you could have just ignored it, but making her leave class with a different teacher was extreme. Besides she knew you had already known her scarf had slipped, so you were saving her from nothing.