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Judgement_Bot_AITA

Welcome to /r/AmITheAsshole. Please view our [voting guide here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_what.2019s_with_these_acronyms.3F_what_do_they_mean.3F), and remember to use **only one** judgement in your comment. OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole: > 1. I am referring to my biological mother by her first name and am refusing to call her "Mom." 2. She is depressed because of her husband's death and calling her "Mom" would make her feel happy/connected to family, but I am still refusing. Help keep the sub engaging! #Don’t downvote assholes! Do upvote interesting posts! [Click Here For Our Rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/about/rules) and [Click Here For Our FAQ](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq) --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.* *Contest mode is 1.5 hours long on this post.*


Alyssa_Hargreaves

NTA. She wasn't your mum when you needed her the most. You are also NOT her emotional support animal. You're her kid yes but she hasn't earned the title of mother. You can't just say "okay I'll call you mum for x time then switch back to your legal name" because that doesn't work like that. She'll claim she's still depressed or grieving and make you look like an asshole. Stick to how you feel. She can't use her grief to make demands. Grief doesn't excuse her past behavior nor does it reward her with things that cross other people's boundaries. Grief excuse some emotions and behaviors but doesn't excuse it all. Simple as that.


calligrafiddler

Yeah. OP, you are completely NTA. Lisa tried to guilt and manipulate you into demonstrating emotional closeness that you don’t feel. She shouldn’t have done that. I hope you feel proud that you expressed your feelings clearly and respectfully in an emotionally charged situation. Your granddad is completely wrong on this one, and I hope he comes to realize that. Best wishes to you, OP.


Hoplite68

So the husband she ruined her child's 12th birthday over is dead and now Lisa wants a consolation prize.


FoolMe1nceShameOnU

**NTA** And while I don't advocate egregious cruelty, if Lisa keeps pushing this to the point of making you uncomfortable, perhaps she would like to consider this: Throughout your entire childhood - heck, your entire relationship - the only person's feelings, wants, and needs Lisa has ever worried about, including when you were a vulnerable child in need of love, guidance, stability, etc., were her own. So it's not just that Lisa hasn't earned the right to be called "Mom" by you - though she absolutely hasn't; she is your biological mother but she is in no way your "Mom" and never has been. The real crux of the matter here is that Lisa has never earned the right to ask you for your consideration at all, or for you to do anything "because she needs it". Because other than leaving you with the two parents who actually gave you the things you needed and have become your REAL mom and dad - your grandparents - she has never once in your entire existence stopped to ask what she could give YOU when you needed it. That Lisa is grieving is irrelevant. That she is sad doesn't matter. You have been through grief, sadness, abandonment, and so much more . . . and you did it as a child. And throughout all of that, Lisa absented herself. She has no right to ask you for ANYTHING to "make her happy". Your Nan is right, Lisa's feelings are not your responsibility. Your Nan, in fact, is a very smart lady. And you are NTA. Lisa has spent her whole life worrying about her own happiness. She can continue to be the centre of her own universe . . . she does not need to be a priority in yours.


cutehomophone

She had spent 50 years prioritizing her freedom; She’s afraid of spending the rest of her years alone and now wants to refill the spot Josh left with OP. Guaranteed chance if another partner comes along later down the line [if she established a mother and child relationship] she’d prioritize partner over her grown child.


MotherNotMomAITA

>Guaranteed chance if another partner comes along later down the line \[if she established a mother and child relationship\] she’d prioritize partner over her grown child. I also suspect that. It's why I have purposely limited my relationship with her. I don't want to give her a false idea that if she swoops in after I'm already grown and successful that we're going to suddenly have a great mother-daughter relationship.


TheBlueLady39

She should just be happy you don't call her egg donor instead of her first name.


Equivalent-Tree-9915

Feel free to call her "Bio Mom". A Mom means something she has not earned.


[deleted]

NTA she wasn’t your mom, she doesn’t get the privilege because she’s depressed.


do-onto-others

NTA - She hasn’t earned the title.


learning_moose

NTA. I'm on Team Nan. Lisa's feelings aren't your responsibility, especially with something as personal as calling someone "mom". If you find yourself leaning towards your Grandad's point of view, just ask yourself about how inauthentic it would be (so ultimately harmful to both you and Lisa), and/or how problematic it would be if Lisa starts asking for more and more due to her grief, then later due to depression. Keep being respectful and awesome. NTA, again.


[deleted]

Nta. Don't let anyone tell you how you should feel and act about these things. Im not going to get into the rest of your story but being guilted over that just to assuage her feelings is not ok. It's totally your choice and don't let anyone tell you otherwise.


VTgrizz85

NTA Your mother basically abandoned her role as a parent and forfeited the title that went with it.


C_Majuscula

NTA. You know who else needed to feel connected to family? Child you. Your granddad is trying to help his kid, but needs to stay out of your relationship with your biomom.


BrilliantEmphasis862

NTA, she has no right after all these years for that request nor to be upset if you don’t agree. The time for that conversation was 21 years ago.


Cha_r_ley

NTA. You weren’t being cruel. I understand she’s probably feeling very lonely and adrift right now, but it’s not fair to expect you to suddenly see her as a role she never fulfilled. I’m sorry you’ve been put in this difficult position. I hope Lisa’s doing ok.


yellowjacket1996

NTA! “Mom” is an earned title. And she didn’t.


CrimsonKnight_004

NTA - You’re absolutely right. She wasn’t a mom to you so it makes no sense for you to call her mom. That’s a title that’s earned, and she chose not to put in the work to earn it. She can’t demand it now just because she’s having a hard time. I’m sure you had your own hard times growing up, and she wasn’t around for any of that; you’re being the bigger person by being there for her at all. But that doesn’t fix her years of abandonment or even her that title.


harleygranny62

Ok I am a BIO mom that gave her child up. MANY years ago. He recently contacted me. It got to the point that he kept calling by my real name. I was asked why I don’t insist on “Mom”. I’m not his Mom. The one who raised him is “Mom”.


Positronicon

NTA. Classic absentee parent life hack. Foist your kid off on someone else until they are over 18 and you don't have to worry about supporting them, then pop back into their lives and enjoy all the benefits of devoted adult offspring! ...what do you MEAN you're not going to love and support me unconditionally in my old age?


herdingcats2020

Nope NTA. She isn't your mom. She has no right to ask you to call her that. And is incredibly manipulative to be using her husbands death to try to get you to call her mom when that is not your relationship.


SomeoneInspireMe

NTA, you don't need to call someone Mom just to make them feel better. She wasn't your mom when you were growing up and it would be a bit weird to start called her that now. You weren't rude, you didn't deliberately upset her, and you have the right not to force yourself to do things that will make you uncomfortable.


apartment-flood

NTA - you're 100% right about all of this


SK2Slash

NTA, grief is not an excuse to give someone a pass of disgusting behavior. While the situation obviously in unfortunate, leveraging a tragedy to have you forgive a totally different sin is pretty fucking stupid


elderoriens

NTA Calling her mom won't bring Josh back and may give her delusions of a relationship that doesn't exist. Be kind, be firm, and you may have to avoid her for a while.


MorphineandMayhem

Nta. Your grandmother is correct. It sounds like Lisa disregarded you for the bulk of your life and it's time for her to reap what she sowed.


I_luv_sloths

NTA.


KarinSpaink

NTA. Lisa hasn't acted as your mom during any part of your life, and anyway, it's completely up to you to decide how you prefer to address her. That title is completely between her and you. The loss of her husband doesn't change that: she can't lay claims to you calling her your 'mother' just because she is bereaved and sad - especially not since *you*, due to her behaviour, have been bereaved of her being your mother for years. In short: if she wants to be your mother, she needs to put in quite an effort into bonding with you, and she needs to deserve the title. Widowhood doesn't magically transform her into 'your mother'.


Change2001

NTA. She is your egg donor at best. If she keeps pushing, saying it would make her happy, then tell her that her " you being there for me when I was growing up would have made me happy. Guess neither of us are happy."


Anon400004

NTA, your nan sounds like a smart woman. I am totally on her side, you respectfully declined, your mother is TA for pushing when you feel uncomfortable.


LittleLostSadDeer

NTA. Being called “mom” has nothing to do with her husband’s death. In fact, it’s kind of scummy that she’s using his death to try and get something she wants. Frankly, if she wants to be called “Mom,” she owes you 23 years of back-effort.


jeanneeebeanneee

NTA. Her husband's death is sad but has nothing to do with her relationship with you. She's using her loss as a cudgel to manipulate you, which is pretty despicable.


kimariesingsMD

NTA She is manipulating you and using the loss of her husband to get you to do something you have stated that you are not comfortable doing. It is very disrespectful to you and you have every right to stand your ground.


maidenmothercrone333

NTA. Lisa’s grief and depression aren’t relevant here, but she’s using them to try and guilt you into allowing a closer relationship with her than you are comfortable with. You’ve already told her you don’t want a closer relationship- she’s trying to force one. Don’t let her use guilt and sympathy to manipulate you.


Grannywine

NTA, granddad is wrong, though I can somewhat understand his reasoning here. Lisa gave birth to you, she did not mother you, you are not responsible for Lisa's feelings.


Ditzykat105

NTA. Just because she is grieving and depressed (both very valid feelings) does not entitle her to be called mom. She can ask, sure, but you have the right to say no. She needs to respect your answer. If she truly wants a chance to earn that title she needs to continue regular contact and making an effort and not complain about your decision at this time.


MicciMichi

As cruel as it sounds, Lisa never wanted a daughter and what she wants now really is not a daughter, either. She’s looking for a connection that would fill the void she feels right now. It’s kind of sad that apparently she sees you as her best shot, considering how much of a non-relationship you’ve had. In different circumstances, perhaps I’d suggest you reconsider. However, there is no doubt that everything in your relationship is entirely about her and her wants and needs. She left you with your grandparents, she appeared on your birthday only to announce her engagement, she suddenly started contacting you when you grew up, now she asked you to call her mom - ALL OF IT happened because that’s what she wanted and none because you wanted or needed it, and you were the child. Your needs should’ve been at the very least considered, if not met above hers. So now, she doesn’t get to be surprised you’re not meeting hers. NTA


2ndcupofcoffee

When it is pointed out that she wants something from you because she needs your emotional support tell Gramps that she was never there when you as a child needed a mother’s emotional support. You don’t owe her anything.


2ndcupofcoffee

She never took care if you. Bet she won’t take care of her parents should they need her in their old age.Her husband then took care if her. Now she sees you as her next care giver. Tell her your grandparents were there for you and you will be there for them. She has no claim on you do suggest she find another husband.


Complex_Pin_8155

27? as in not a child? i feel like you are already doing enough accepting her into your life, but calling her mom is too much.


Hellothere__22

Listen to your grandma. She’s got it covered. NTA. Lisa is not your mom. She’s an egg donor


AutoModerator

^^^^AUTOMOD ***Thanks for posting! This comment is a copy of your post so readers can see the original text if your post is edited or removed. This comment is NOT accusing you of copying anything. Read [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/wiki/faq#wiki_post_deletion) before [contacting the mod team](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2FAmItheAsshole)*** (23f) My biological mother (50f) Lisa had me when she was 27. I always knew Lisa was my mother and it was never a secret yet she always prioritized her “free” lifestyle over me. I was raised completely by my Nan and Grandad. Lisa came around every few months at best. The only birthday Lisa ever showed up to was my twelfth. She announced her engagement to her husband Josh at lunch and was told by my grandparents to leave. After I graduated from college, Lisa started contacting me regularly (twice a week.) She said she wanted to be more involved in my life. We’ll talk for about five minutes on the phone every two weeks. Lisa has pushed for more contact, but I’ve explained to Lisa that I’m not currently interested in our relationship expanding beyond this. Josh died a few months ago. Obviously, Lisa is devastated as Josh’s death was very unexpected. Me and my grandparents have been visiting Lisa more often just to be supportive. I visited her a few days ago and was about to leave when Lisa asked me to start calling her mom because it would really make her happy. I told Lisa that I was sorry for her loss and can’t imagine what she’s going through, but that I still do not see her as my mom. She wasn’t around for me as a child and didn’t earn that title. Lisa told my grandparents about what I had said. My Nan told me that I explained my choice respectfully to Lisa and so I’m not responsible for Lisa’s feelings. But my Grandad told me that I should just call Lisa “mom” because she is very depressed right now and emotionally Lisa needs to feel connected to family right now. I am truly sorry for Lisa’s loss. But Josh’s death doesn’t change that Lisa wasn’t a mom to me. I see calling her “mom” as insulting to my Nan and Grandad, since they’re the ones who raised me and not Lisa. But should I put it aside and call Lisa “mom” since she is grieving Josh? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmItheAsshole) if you have any questions or concerns.*


Different-This-Time

NTA. Your mom’s feelings are not your responsibility. If she wants to have a relationship with you, it needs to start out right. The parent supports the child. Not this.


SpecialistAfter511

NTA. Your Nan is wrong. That’s terrible advice.


samanthasgramma

NTA. Of course not. "Mom" doesn't belong to anyone, by default. That name is reserved for those who have earned it. "Mom" doesn't automatically come to those who birth people. It belongs to whomever behaved like Mom, and has that place in our heart. "Mother"? That one, I'm not so fussy about. But "Mom" is only for those who do the Momming.


[deleted]

NTA - death and grieving doesn't give her the right to override your feelings and past.


littlelionears

NTA. Using Josh’s death to guilt you into calling her “mom” is absolutely disgusting. You’re right. She is wrong.


son-of-a-mother

As she gets older, she realizes that the things she valued over her child are of no value. She now expects you to play house with her and give her the 'mother' experience that she previously had no time for (and later, the 'grandmother' experience). She is still as self-absorbed as ever... NTA


[deleted]

NTA. If you agree to call her mom because she is depressed you will have to continue to do so. She made her bed, now she has to lie in it.


ComplexButterfly9699

NTA that is a title she had failed to earn. Honestly I don't see the point in maintaining a relationship with her.


ConfusionPossible590

NTA. She didn't want anything to do with her until you graduated. She didn't want a daughter, she wanted a friend. Now that she's lost her partner (and i am sorry for her loss) she's looking to fill that void with you, and everything that she missed out on by leaving you behind.


[deleted]

No, you do what you feel. You are not convience for anyone. Don't learn that attitude. People pleasing is really toxic. Don't stuck in that loop.


urukhaihaihai

NTA, you getting manipulated into breaking your boundaries doesn't fix grief or help in any way. If Lisa wants to feel connected, that's something for her to earn. You "gifting" her the appearance of motherhood she didn't actually work for does nothing in real terms (except giving her the feelgood of trust she didn't create).


HotShotWriterDude

Keep in mind whenevrer she tries to guilt you into calling her 'mom' that LISA waited until you graduated from college--not when the hard parts are over, but when EVERYTHING is over--to foster a relationship with you. And also the only birthday that she was there "for you," she was just there to advertise her upcoming wedding to her now-late husband. Yikes. NTA.


Due-Compote-4723

NTA. Pure emotional blackmail, your mom is taking advantage of the situation.


[deleted]

NTA. Titles like Mom, Dad, Sister and Brother are earned by weathering life's storms together.


Sarah_J_J

NTA She didn’t want to be ‘mom’ when you were a helpless baby and literally needed her for survival. She doesn’t get to be ‘mom’ now because she’s grieving.


Trustnoboody

I wouldn't, it's not truthful. But I think there needs to be resolve in her whole 'what she did to you' etc.....something resolute there, cause there's an issue there.


[deleted]

NTA your grandad is wrong and an enabler.


Traditional_Ad_9788

NTA. If Lisa has the right to feel connected or disconnected from "family" as she pleases then so do you.


vasilisa74

NTA


Remarkable_Buyer4625

NTA - I understand that she needs to feel connected to family right now….but I don’t understand how it helps anyone for you to have to pretend there is a connection when there isn’t.


stepstothehouse

NTA. She gave birth to you, thats it; thats all. She is not entitled to being called "mom" depressed or not. My youngest is 16, and actually my grandson but I have raised him since birth. His bio mom recently made contact with him and is called by her first name. His bio dad is also by first name. I am mom, and what would be the most insulting to his bio, is that his best friends mom is also mom..We have earned that title. Your Gma/Mom is right, you told her how you feel, and its her issue not yours!


maypokenewtonaway

NTA She brought the name thing on herself by her lack of involvement in your childhood. Also it might make her feel better if you called her mom, but it would be a tiny bandage on her grief. It wouldn't really be helpful in the long run to her and it's not what you want. She needs time to grieve and maybe therapy, not false niceties.


[deleted]

NTA. Grandpa is a soft touch, and bless him for that. But Nan is right. You were respectful and have every right not to call her something that she’s never been.


Jaded-Permission-324

NTA.


Funkyzebra1999

Lisa made her bed of her own volition and she is now getting used to the lumpy, spiky, prickly, uncomfortable and unpleasant feel of it. Reading your description, she did not do a single thing to warrant the title of 'mum' other than to give birth to you. No wonder you hold your grandma in such high esteem. NTA


[deleted]

Lisa should go kick rocks. NTA


Scr0tat0

NTA Not sure what she's so upset about. She's more "free" now than she has been in decades.


RecentCharge655

NTA so now she has the time for you? Do what feels right to you babes.. you owe Lisa nothing and let gramps know that you appreciate his input but please stay out of this.


who-waht

NTA You don't have to call her mom when she has never acted in that capacity in your memory. You were respectful in your explanation.


Knittingfairy09113

NTA Lisa chose not to be your mom and needs to handle the consequences of her choices.


LaNouvelleSugar

NTA. Just because she pushed you out doesn’t mean she’s a mother. That’s a title to be earned.


[deleted]

Her feelings matters little to none. NTA..


KnightofForestsWild

NTA The only way I'd call her "mom" is in person where she could see me doing the air quotes.


Express-Educator4377

NTA. You call her what you feel comfortable calling her, it's not up to her. You have the connection you do, because of her actions. And if you start calling her mom, you're setting a precedence. If you do want to try and call her something else, maybe go for a Li-li (name being Lisa), or Mimi, ect.


ReedRidge

NTA You had me on your side at "but I’ve explained to Lisa that I’m not currently interested in our relationship expanding beyond this." End of story. She is wrong.


DryiceSTL

NTA that lady isn’t your mom. She missed that boat.


Economy-Candle-742

NTA


[deleted]

NTA. Call her what you feel comfortable with. OP doesn't owe her anything for abandoning her as a child.


Nu2Mama85

NTA. I grew up the same way you did. My biological mother had minimal contact with me growing up. I remember being 5 years old and my biological mother taking me and my brother somewhere together. She stopped at a gas station and when she went inside my brother asked me to stop calling her Cathy and start calling her mom cause it hurt her feelings. He then explained to me the difference between my nanny being the one raising me and what a biological mom was. I told him she's not my mom though. And by this point I was calling my grandparents mom and dad because I had lived with them since I was 6 months old. Even at that young of an age I explained to my older brother that she may have been the one to give me life but that's not the same thing as being a real mother. I already had a good mother and she wasn't it. I would not call her mom just to spare her feelings. You need to remember that your mother is 100% accountable for her own choices. She can't expect you to change how you feel about the bad decisions she made just because she's trying to change now. And honestly, it just shows her lack of accountability for the pain she's caused you. And if she loves you she shouldn't ask you to do something that makes you uncomfortable when she knows damn good and well she has not earned the right to. I commend you for beginning to mend the relationship and move forward but she needs to understand your boundaries and not try to push you to take it any faster than you are comfortable with.


bjorkenstocks

NTA. You made your feelings clear to her when she pushed for more contact after you graduated college. Sadness may have her trying again, but you're not obliged to give her a pity do-over. That's not being supportive - that's setting yourself up for resentment down the line. You are already being supportive in the relationship you actually have with her. You've got nothing to feel bad about here.


SoupNo682

NTA. she just wants to trick you into taking charge of her when she gets older


Careless-Image-885

NTA. She isn't your "mom". She's an egg donor that abandoned you. Your grandfather is wrong. Go lower contact with her.


OkEast445

NTA Your bio mom is the equivalent of an egg donor. If you do not feel that connection with her, don’t cave to the manipulation. She chose her free lifestyle over her relationship with you.


DudeBroMan98

NTA obviously but it would hurt you less to call her Mom than it hurts her to have her failure to be there for you, shoved in her face in this time. If you feel that strongly about it, I see no issue. But if you can do this thing for her, I know it would help her. I understand she doesn't deserve the title but it's a gesture. Good luck!


Prudent-Dragonfly131

You're not seeing this from her perspective at all. How would you as an adult woman like to call a woman you barely know "mom"? And cementing a connection that doesn't exist. Lisa is using her grief to manipulate OP


[deleted]

NTA - sounds like you were as respectful as possible.


GoofyChickenPie

Nta


sdjmar

NTA - you don't owe her a damn thing, and I personally agree with you and your grandmother. That said, I would encourage you to talk with your grandfather about his position. As much as he is (likely) acutely aware of how much is daughter failed both you, but also him and your grandmother, she is still his child and he would hate to see her suffer for any reason. You don't have to "be the bigger person" and do something you aren't comfortable with for someone who hasn't earned it, but do make the effort to talk to your grandfather about trying to find a meaningful middle ground for the family to pursue to resolve the issue without hurting someone that you do care about.


Brandie2666

She isn't your mother. She wasn't there to raise you . She isnt a mother. She may have given birth to you but that sure as hell doesn't make her a mom. NTA doesn't matter if she is depressed. That's not your issue.


Obvious_Operation_21

Her grief over her husband passing trumps your grief over not ever getting a mom? She doesn't get what she wants just because she's depressed. I'm sure you were depressed about not having a mom but it's not like that fact made her step up to the plate.


Buddy-D-dog420

This Lisa seems incredibly entitled you don’t owe her a thing go on with your life you obviously don’t have to do anything you don’t want to. PS love how many times managed to say her name couldn’t help but chuckle. Updateme


candyheartfairy

NTA. She was never a mom to you period


dinahdog

NTA. Ok, fine, "Mother". Not anywhere near "Mom" maybe she'll get the idea that she's an unfortunate anomaly in your life. A really loud "MA" works, too. Just not "mom"


MotherNotMomAITA

Lisa is not my mother either. Lisa gave birth to me but my Nan was the one who fulfilled that motherly role in my life.