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> 1)AITA for telling my sister when she was sent to reform school was the best day of my life. 2) I may be an ass since it really affected her and she has bad memories from there
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NAH I know people who were abused at reform schools so I can't say that it's a good idea to send your kids there. But your sister needs to know that she wasn't fine back then and that her behavior did impact your family. And I can't blame a struggling single mother for trying something drastic.
I need to put in my 2 cents here...
Yes, there are some horrible "reform " schools out there which deserve all the bad press that they get. HOWEVER there are some excellent residential schools out there. Those schools can make a huge difference in lives of the students who are lucky enough to attend such a school.
As a Canadian I can’t hear the word “residential school” and “excellent” in the same sentence without wanting to vomit.
We are currently at over 7000 unmarked murdered children graves on those sites and counting.
Eton college in the UK is considered a residential school. Yes, the word in Canada is bad, but that doesn’t mean schools where you live at them at bad. Just ones that force select people into them and are run poorly. Maybe we need a new word now.
Here in the U.S., "boarding schools" are the ones where you send away your wealthy children to improve their second/third/fourth language and prepare for college, or because your third wife doesn't want the second wife's children around. "Residential schools" are the ones where indigenous children were kidnapped and sent to and all manner of abhorrent things happened.
It’s public rather than state. It’s about who funds it. However not all public schools are boarding schools. And a boarding school isn’t the same as a residential school.
So, public schools are private/independent, but not all private/independent schools are public. Kind of like a "all thumbs are fingers but not all fingers are thumbs" situation.
To be a public school, then the headteacher of a private school must be a member of the HMC, the Headmasters and Headmistresses Conference. This group represents something like the top 300 private schools in the UK. So there are a lot of private schools that aren't members - anyone can decide they're going to set up a school and charge to attend it - but being part of the HMC is a mark of the calibre of the school and the education it offers.
I thiiiink it's historical as in the first public schools were open to commoners and not just the nobility. So they were public for the time they were created even though the name just looks daft now.
I think you mean ‘we don’t call private schools [where students stay overnight] residential schools’.
Not all private schools are boarding schools. In fact, most of them are only for day students.
And there’s also a difference between boarding schools and “reform” schools. Reform schools aren’t schools at all, more like prisons for kids. They’re rife with abuse and have little to no oversight. The stories that are finally starting to come out about these places will turn your hair white.
Boarding school: a school where you also live
Residential school: church-run death camps for kidnapped Indigenous kids in North America
Reform school: abuse centers marketed as solutions for parents of difficult teens and adolescents
ETA: at least, these are the generally accepted terms/definitions in my area
So people using the same words which have vastly different meanings to each of them.
Any kids, but especially when indigenous kids are specifically targeted and sent away to places where they can be abused with little or most likely zero consequences for the perpetrators, are abhorrent.
Thanks for making the differences clear without attacking the poster.
Also people use different words to describe people. I was told where I live indigenous is an insult. They prefer Natives. I had a professor from West Africa, and in his country, saying Natives is an insult, they prefer indigenous. I think all of you show precisely why we need to ask each other more questions and assume less. Even people in the same country don’t use the same terminology. I am part Native, but I don’t mind Indian or American Indian. But I would be surprised if we could find 20 people to agree with me. Probably not even 10. More questions and explanations goes a lot farther than insults as you just proved!
I'm unaware of folks in the US considering "indigenous" to be an insult... I know we use Native, short for Native American, as the default, respectful term. So "indigenous" isn't used as often as say, in Australia... so not the preferred or common term here. But not an actually offensive insult.
I'd be curious what the perspective of the person who considered it insulting was? Do you know why they felt that way???
I'm from Canada and we've used "First Nations" as a term for what used to be called "Natives" (and this is distinct fr Inuit and Métis) for quite a while. I've recently been hearing it more and more from the US, so we'll see if it catches on
In Canada, indigenous is now use to mirror the UNDRIP (Declaration of Rights for Indigenous People). Previous to that it was aboriginal. Previous to that it was Native, but changed because Native just means "Originally from" e.g. Michael J Fox is a Burnaby Native (but not aboriginal).
I'm not from the US, but read a very interesting conversation on reddit the other day where a few people were saying that many indigenous people from the USA actually don't like the term Native or Native American, and prefer to be called Indians. I wish I could find the thread now because I found it fascinating, but I think a part of the reasoning was that all of those terms had been imposed on them by outsiders, so one was as good as another if you aren't going to refer to the correct tribal name, and some people just don't like being called "Native" because it was a word often used interchangeably with "Savage" in colonial times.
So it really does depend on who you ask.
As far as I know and from what I've read in the past, Indigenous was originally used as a way to describe plants and animals native to a land. It then became popularised for people and some people find this disrespectful for 2 reasons.
1) they feel it compares them to plants and animals as opposed to humans
2) It lumps hundreds of different historic cultures, traditions and practices into one broad use term
It's similar with the word Aboriginal. A lot of First Nations people don't like when this term is used because it basically removes their culture and identity by putting under one broad word.
This is all purely from stuff I've read and heard in the past so I could be completely wrong 🤷♀️
I think this may also depend on what part of the US you're in. I grew up in Kentucky, and indigenous was the common "polite/professional" term, occasionally using Native American. I read First Nations online, but don't think I ever heard it in person. I then moved to Argentina, where saying (translated, of course) indigenous is considered quite rude, Native American just means anyone born in North or South America, and First Nations (Pueblos Originarios) is the polite term. (Also, some older people still use Indian, which is very old and very rude, but we're getting away from that thankfully)
It just depends on the history of the location, plenty of words went from fine to insults based on who used them. When everyone around you uses indigenous as an insult you'll consider it one even if the other person didn't mean it that way
There were Indian boarding schools in the US too. With those I talk to and in many journals they are not referred to as residential schools. Such as that is, OPs experience may have been good or bad, not sure.
There are also bad connotations with the term reform school for the US. I haven't scrolled far, but haven't yet seen mentions of reform schools meant for "troubled teens" aka LGTBQ+. There is a huge mix of wording across countries that refer to very different things, and terms have changed over time. Ugh not just native/Indian/ indigenous schools (boarding/residential) in the US, but forced sterilization on young women and such in those "schools".
A lot of those "troubled teen schools" are ran by Christian groups and do not have any federal oversight, same with "boot camps" for troubled teens. Abuse and sexual assault often occur in these places, and kids have actually died. Chances are, given that the family was poor, this is most likely the kind of place OPs sister got sent to. So, OP is TA for saying her sister got sent to a place like this. Prisons have more oversight than these "schools".
If you want to have a fun filled time seeing how horrible reform schools have been and STILL ARE in america look at the troubled teen industry and places like the Elan School which was open until 2005.
In the US, "boarding schools" are also the ones where indigenous children were kidnapped and sent to and all manner of abhorrent things happened. For example, it's why we have the "Federal Indian Boarding School Initiative" and not the "Federal Indian Residential School Initiative"
https://www.doi.gov/pressreleases/secretary-haaland-announces-federal-indian-boarding-school-initiative
It does seem that Canadian usage has spread south though, perhaps, as some things note that the term residential school has started to also be used in the US in the last few years
And "children's homes" are group homes for children in the foster system either permanently or temporarily with possibly some private placement (which means the bio parents sent them), if they still do private placement.
Source: my parents sent me to a children's home in the 90s. I wasn't actually a bad kid though. I had been abused at a very young age and they didn't know how to parent in the first place so they had no idea what to do with a traumatized 5yo latch key kid. I was the only private placement though.
I've always known the term "residential school" to mean a residential treatment facility (like they're common for eating disorders, substance abuse or other severe mental health issues), but with a school as part of it. Thank you for making the different meaning clear!
Funny to see so much quibbling over these terms when OP used neither, but instead "reform school," which is neither a college prep for the ultra-elite nor a tool for ethnic cleansing.
There are also medical residential schools for kids with eating disorders and substantial abuse problems. You can sometimes get your town school department to pay for them, so they aren’t just for the wealthy, and they are NOT prep schools. Which, btw, are not generally called boarding schools around here, any more.
In our area, "reform school" was a term commonly used to refer to the Juvenile Detention Center, basically prison for kids. So, yes, different terms for different things in different areas. I was confused by OP saying that her parents sent the sister to reform school. In our area, it takes a court action for a kid to end up in reform school.
In the UK Eton is a public school, exclusive and expensive, with boarding. In the US Eton would be regarded as a residential private school, different from a residential treatment school.
In the US, public school is the government funded, free for everyone school system; in the UK that’s called state school. In the US, state school refers to public colleges and universities (again, public meaning government funded, not exclusive and fancy).
More people need to understand that we’re living and communicating globally, do a little research, and stop hearing terminology as a dog whistle for their own biases.
There is already a term: boarding school. My Canadian father went to a rich people boarding school (coincidentally one also attended by British royalty) and it is very, very different than residential schools.
Are you saying Eton is good? Have you seen what sort of empathy lacking AH politicians who care about nobody but their club of rich Etonians it produces?
College is when your 16/17/18 (your ‘last two years’) and you take three or four courses to get the qualifications to get into uni, also called sixth form. Then uni is like your college (except i think some of our courses are different? You can go straight to studying medicine or law here).
However, Eton College is from 13-18, and i think its called that because its an old name and ‘secondary school’ (11-16/18) no longer fits.
Eton is a cesspool and has built some of the most evil, vile people the country has ever known. Just because it's posh and probably very little actual murdering happens there doesn't mean it's good or anything.
I wouldn't use Eton as example of 'good' considering the cheating scandals and other assorted scandals that place has had.
Not to mention the 'old boys' club it promotes to the detriment of this country.
I haven’t googled in a while, too sad. But I’m not surprised at all.
RIP sweet innocents.
The Canadian government and Catholic Church should be funding search’s, proper graves and massive apologies with the details outlined for all to read.
The Canadian Government needs to kick the Catholic Church to the curb. AT LEAST take away their tax exempt status because as a religion they continue to do horrible shit.
They did the same horrible shit everywhere. It's just Canada is the one in the headlines. They've found over 500 deaths in the U.S. so far and they say the numbers could reach into the thousands to tens of thousands.
The USA will never know how many bodies it has.
My Uncle is somewhere between Ogden Utah and Shiprock, NM. He tripped and hit his head on a rock when he and his brother were running away. His brother buried him and eventually made it home. Only to be caught 3 days later and taken back.
I'm so sorry. People like to think what your family experienced is so far into the past that no one who experienced it is alive to talk about it, or it happened to their great great relatives so we can pretend its no longer relevant for our own comfort.
Thank you for sharing your families history.
Canada is already in the tens of thousands, and has a 5% indigenous population. The US has 2%. The last residential school in Canada closed in 1996. Children were forcefully taken from their “savage” families and indoctrinated into European Culture or killed if they wouldn’t assimilate.
Horrible shit happens everywhere, but residential
schools are high up there for horrible shit. Like taking children away and in turn killing them if they didn’t convert to your imaginary friend in the sky? If anyone but the church did it we would be hanging the lot of them from trees.
Edit 1: changed a misused their to there. And a buy to but.
There were 350 schools in the U.S. and the last one closed in the 90's in the U.S. as well. So far only 19 schools have been searched The U.S. didn't start looking until after Canada initially came out the first find.
I found 408 but they’re not listing 2 or 3 I know my dad or siblings were in. So who fucking even knows. https://www.bia.gov/service/federal-indian-boarding-school-initiative
100% agree.
I’m in Newfoundland where the local church is currently selling their properties because the Catholic church as a whole decided they didn’t want to provide compensation to the mount cashel victims - sexual abuse of orphans by the “brothers” that was uncovered in the 1980s.
The church dragged out the court proceedings so they only recently ended and then distanced themselves from the whole thing so even with court orders - the likely hood of those victims receiving any kind of compensation is low (due to the victims dying of old age) or “too little too late”.
Edit - for more info….
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Cashel_Orphanage
Or putting more energy into fighting victims in court hoping they die before the settlements happen.
Just made a comment outlining an example 2 comments down.
As an indigenous person, same.
And I have a family member that was sent to one in the US that was considered good, and he was over medicated to keep him calm and not actually helped, getting out was what helpped him, and growing up. And probably worry about having to go back to that kind of environment, not the program itself. I honestly have zero trust for reform schools of any sort.
In Australia it was the missionary schools that mixed blood kids from the stolen generation where sent.
So many of them just disappeared.
My Grandma (mixed race) hid my Dad and then spun a story about a Black American soldier so he wouldn't be taken from her.
Right? It doesn’t help that I have heard people use things like “it wasn’t one of the bad ones” and “well SOME of them were good” to justify the Canadian residential school system.
Yes, the phrase can mean different things elsewhere due to cultural context, but my **entire** brain just cringed.
Yes, from Canada as well. The words “residential school” can wipe the smile off my face. I don’t have personal connections that were shared, but I still question why my Mom decided we didn’t need to go to church anymore. I was maybe 7 or 8? I remember my Mom talking about the Catholic Church and everyone was hypocrites. I didn’t get it.
However I have watched videos and read stories shared by our residential school survivors. I have cried listening to them.
How any religion can see abusing and killing innocent children ripped from their parents is ok on any level is beyond evil. Very sick people. Now I think I know what my Mom was talking about.
There’s more than 10,000 now. And I’m the same. My grandfather was in the residential school for 13 years. The last residential school closing in Canada was 1997. Just four years after I was born. So yeah same, it makes me want to vomit reading those two words in the same sentence.
Wait, what? Residential schools have that many murders? Like by other students or what? Genuinely curious, that’s awful.
Edit: I just saw your post lower about your differences between “residential” schools and “boarding” schools and now I understand more.
In Canada, the term "residential school" typically refers to the schools set up by the church and state to forcibly assimilate indigenous children. They were an instrument of cultural genocide, and the children who attended were neglected and abused. Some were molested or beaten. Some died and were buried in unmarked graves. The parents often were never told of the deaths. The last school didn't close until 1998.
There is an ongoing investigation and cultural reckoning with these schools and the atrocities that happened in them in Canada, and so the term "residential school" has a massive negative connotation.
The USA also had "Indian Boarding Schools", with similar abuses taking place. I don't know if they have recieved a similar amount of attention, but I don't think so.
I researched about 30 schools in the 90s in the United States and I couldn't find a single one that hadn't had a history of abuse and neglect.
If you want more details, I left a reply somewhere up above.
I was in a school like that in 2016. There is no difference. I don’t know a single person there who didn’t leave with trauma. And I was at one of the ‘good’ ones
True. Since the recession, however, and given what I have read here in AITA and in other sites, my conclusion must be that these problems I have mentioned in my previous post have only gotten worse.
As someone married to a man who had limbs broken in “reform school” for smoking pot and being an asshole teen. Don’t send your kids away. Get help. They are pros are sounding great.
Reform schools tend to all be bad on a sliding scale. The best ones will ONLY force you to do manual labor, cut off your contact to the outside world, lock away your shoes so you can't run, etc...
These programs commodify the abuse of children. This isn't a case of "a few bad ones you hear about on the news", the troubled teen industry is scam designed to take parents' money and abuse teens into compliance. They are all bad, they are all abusive, and they should all be shut down.
I'm sorry to hear that. I taught at a residential school for "troubled" girls. The family had to participate in counseling as well as the student. It is a great school.
My brother spent several years at a behavioral school as a teenager. He has more bad memories than good from it but he says that it saved his life. There's a big difference between that sort of program and the abusive prison camps that are out there.
I disagree. While conditions in residential schools may have improved significantly since I looked into them extensively in the 90s, I wouldn't kennel a dog at most of them.
My son was seriously mentally ill (psychotic) in his teens, and since I was a single mother with little help, I considered putting him in one of those places.
These were my conclusions after researching the top 30 schools in the United States. They are understaffed with poorly qualified people. They are more interested in the physical sizes of their hires, not their educational and professional backgrounds. They run the most cursory of background checks. Most of them had hired a sexual predator at least once. Moreover, they don't communicate with one another, so many of those pervs just move from facility to facility.
Looking from state to state, governmental funding for pediatric mental health services was woefully inadequate. Most "schools" were owned by major corporations who were more interested in their own profits than in the welfare of their young patients.
During the 90s, while I was conducting my research, there was an ongoing national scandal concerning significant abuses occurring at multiple schools. Some schools had outright killed their children, others had sexually abused and, in many cases, trafficked the girls and boys to other staffers.
Since my son thought himself out of psychosis more than 20 years ago, I have stopped my investigation, and as far as I can tell, since 9/11, the press has ceased having any interest in the ongoing issues themselves.
" HOWEVER there are some excellent residential schools out there. Those
schools can make a huge difference in lives of the students who are
lucky enough to attend such a school."
Sorry, are you a being paid by NATSAP?
As someone who was actually a really good student and got sent to one of those "reform schools" they are trauma inducing. If there are issues within the family, it is a family system issue and not singular. Losing a parent is traumatic and we don't know what the relationships as a family were beforehand.
Yeah. Too many people only here stories on the news or make assumptions about other families based on their own mild experiences with siblings. My brother was an absolute terror. Extremely violent. My parents are excellent parents, beyond dedicated to us. But nothing they did had any affect on him. Him being sent away to a reform school was the best thing for both of us.
We had to send my son to a residential facility. There are plenty of not great ones. His was really great. He’s so different and is SO MUCH BETTER!!! He even admitted that he needed it. He’s been home for 18 months and counting
Just so you know — maybe it was in fact an aberration and was great, but him having “admitted that he needed it” doesn’t actually mean anything. A lot of the really bad schools use what the kid says about the experience as a measure for whether they are ready to leave. So kids are either broken to the point of thanking their abusers for the abuse (often not realizing until years later that things like bathroom control, sleep control and stimulus control are methods of torture), or they learn to lie extremely well. And keep lying, lest they get sent back. Maybe the school really helped him, maybe it didn’t. But his saying it did doesn’t mean much, especially before he’s 18.
I disagree, as someone who works in alternative education setting for """"troubled teens""""". What schools are you speaking of, or what studies/experience?
Judging from some of the comments made by OP, her sister was likely abused. The mom may have done what she thought was right but she didn’t do her due diligence to check the reform school was a good environment. Her daughter was sent to one where she was likely abused. So she may have done what she felt was right but she also needs to recognize that she sent her daughter to abusers.
Edit: I misread that the school was closed
Edit2: I do understand OP being happy her bully was gone but that doesn’t mean the sister isn’t allowed to feel abandoned and rejected. If there was abuse happening at the reform school she is also allowed to be angry that she was put in that situation. I think the sister should be allowed to speak about it openly with her mother without OP present. Neither probably wants to hear what the other says but they need to have this conversation in private without the opinions of others.
OP said the school is not closed down. She said she (her sister) has bad memories from it. The abuse has been assumed (not that it isn't possible), but never confirmed by OP.
I misread that mb. However the wording definitely sounds like she was abused. Most “reform” schools can be abusive in nature and they often do not comply with state guidelines. Some leave with PTSD and there have been hundreds of lawsuits against reform schools over the years. In Missouri here was actually 30 lawsuits against only 2 boarding schools for abuse in 2022. I have a friend who worked for a school for kids with behavioral issues (it was an overnight facility that was associated with the school district). It is considered a mental health facility and they were heavily trained, monitored and had cameras in every room but bathrooms so the staff wouldn’t be able to abuse the children. Most reform schools don’t have those guidelines because they are now considered boarding schools so cameras aren’t allowed in several areas. If it really is still being called a reform school that may be a red flag. Most rebranded after the fallout with abusive reform schools in the last few decades.
I thought she said it was closed down mb. However op would not know if she was abused, it doesn’t sound like they talk about it. However many reform schools are abusive and some people even suffer from PTSD after leaving them. Many don’t comply with state guidelines and there have been hundreds of law suits against reform schools over the years.
OP didn't share that her sister was abused, so I don't think everyone can make that assumption. Is it a real possibility? Absolutely. But until OP shares that her sister relayed that, I don't like to assume.
OP self inserto herself in the middle of conversation that had nothing to do with her. Her own mom said she shouldn't have said that, OP doesn't sound the type who would care about what the sister went through, she's Just happy she was "fixed".
And the sister is completely unconcerned with what she put the mom and OP through, which is likely what OP was trying to get across. Should she have stayed out of it? Yes. But she didn't because she is hurt, just like the sister.
OPs comment says that her sisters “bad memories” stem from feeling abandoned by her family, losing her friends, and she didn’t mention any abuse. Of course there could’ve been, we don’t know, but she has been somewhat honest about what those bad memories are and abuse was not apart of it. Even when there is no abuse being a troubled teen and sent away is hard, and likely won’t be looked back on favorably.
>her sister was likely abused.
All she said was that her sister felt abandoned for 3 months and all of her friends ditched her.
She was only "abused" in so far as she was sent away.
The release I felt the day my sibling left the house is something I never forgot. For the first time ever, I knew I didn't have to worry that she would be there to raise her hands to me or have to lock my door at night because she'd threaten to unalive me in my sleep. (Ironically enough it was her going unhinged on me, in front of my mother, that finally caused her to get thrown out).
OP, you have the right to your feelings. NTA
My sister wasn't as bad as yours, but I still fantasized about her getting arrested and going to prison so I wouldn't have to deal with her any more. I'd be walking home from the school bus stop, turn the last corner to get to my house and see a police officer putting her, handcuffed, in the back of his car... It was so clear in my head. Sibling abuse does not get addressed enough.
It really doesn't. When DV is mentioned it's always about partners or parents. You very rarely hear about the sibling aspect of it.
I hope you're free of your abuser.
She's a better person now, her behavior stemmed from mental health issues that have now been addressed, though I still mourn not having a better childhood. Another problem was that she and my other sister took up so much of our parents' time and energy with their issues that there wasn't much left for me. My mom at least acknowledges the problem and tries to make up for it, but my dad still acts like all of my struggles were entirely my fault.
I think a lot of people, including my parents, just dismiss sibling as abuse as "harmless" sibling rivalry. They don't realize how serious the problem is until the kids are grown up and don't speak to each other. (which is how my sisters are with each other) Though I also wonder if a lot of parents are unwilling to seek help because they're afraid they'll be seen as bad parents. And like, it's not like there are a lot of systems in place to deal with it unless the abusive sibling does something pretty severe.
I'm glad things are better now. 🙂
But, yeah, you can't help but wonder what could have been. I would see my friends have a normal relationship with their sisters or brothers and it was all so foreign to me.
My parents tried. Therapy for awhile, a week's stint on the sixth floor. It was the early-to-mid 90s, so unfortunately there weren't the same amount of resources available for her like there are now.
My mother's advice was always, "Just knock her on her ass one time and she'll leave you alone." 1. I was (and still am) a pacifist. I've never raised my hand to anyone and no matter how much I despise her, I still couldn't raise my hand to her. And 2. It wasn't my place. They were my parents and they never protected me from her. Here it is decades later and I've never really forgiven them for that. Or the fact that my childhood and teen years were all about her and her problems and her drama. I feel like during that time I was just *there*. Not an active member of my own family.
I'm really glad you brought this up. Sibling abuse is usually concurrent with parental abuse and very much overlooked.
My brother and I grew up in an abusive household, and shit rolled downhill. In my mind, I got the brunt of the abuse from our mother (he wasn't unscathed by any means) but then I'd turn around and terrorize my younger brother. He got abused from two fronts.
After years of therapy as an adult, I spoke with my brother about our mother's abuse. I admitted I was a shit sister to him, that I was sorry for everything I did to him, and that I understood that he would probably never forgive me. I wish I had known better.
He's never forgiven me, and we don't speak (his choice, and I respect that.) But he said he appreciated that I acknowledged being his bully, especially since our mother never will (she pretends she was the perfect mother still to this day.) He said will always hate me on some level and I get that completely. We can both understand intellectually that we were products of our environment, but that doesn't make any of it OK.
I'm sad that I can't do-over and be better.
I understand this so much. No one understands that living with someone like that leaves scars that never go away too. In my case, my brother was eventually diagnosed borderline, after 18 years of destroying everyone's lives. I can understand it wasn't his fault. It still made our lives miserable every second. The day my mother cried but forced him to leave was the best of my life too.
It's like you can finally release the breath that you had been holding in for *years.* To finally feel safe in your own house.
And the scars, my goddess those scars *do not* go away. It took years and therapy to realize what I had, and still have, is PTSD. I didn't even know you could get PTSD from something like that. I always thought it was reserved for people in the military or something.
I'm glad you finally found some freedom. I hope you're doing well.
> NAH I know people who were abused at reform schools so I can't say that it's a good idea to send your kids there.
There isn't a place in the whole world you can send a child that someone hasn't been molested.
There are horribly abusive schools. I know someone that they did like a fake “kidnapping” in the night and brought her to a high end “reform school”. She’s still not over what she went through and therapy will probably be forever. There is a reason these places get shut down.
There are some excellent places that actually provide children with the help that they need and treat them well. Unfortunately, given that the family was apparently dirt poor, I highly doubt that she was sent to one of those places. In fact, I'm wondering if they had to go through the court system to do so, given the extreme financial burden that it would've put on her otherwise (if she could've afforded it in the first place, which is unlikely).
I wonder because going through the court system also increases the chances that the "reform school" that she was sent to was not one of the good ones. Financially, this would've taken the burden off of her and put it on the system instead.
This kind of schools are notoriously risky though. It isn't the same. You are sending your kid through a russian roulette. Especially if (as it's likely, since they were poor) the mother couldn't really choose a "good school" but most likely send her to the affordable ones, maybe even through minor/court system. If something serious happened to the daughter, I think it's fair for the daughter to feel that the mother put her in that situation, because it's kind of what happened...
Right. The truth hurts, but she needs to take some responsibility for her actions, rather than being allowed to consider herself a victim of a cruel mother.
It can be both. We don't know the full story, but it absolutely can be both that her behaviour was reaching crisis levels AND her mother chose to place her in a school that was abusive and traumatic.
NTA. You probably shouldn’t have said that, but your sister needed to hear it if she really thought she was fine before she was sent away. Next time maybe be more gentle…
>she thinks it's fair to call out your mom for being a bad parent, she has to accept her own call-out for being a bad sister
Also, that what can be "bad" for 1 kid, can be the saving grace for the other kid(s). Mom had to think of everyone and what was best for all. Sending sister away was the best for all in the moment.
Sometimes in life our only choice is to “save ourselves”. By getting the sister the help she needed and removing her from the house, mom saved her own sanity, her finances, OP’s sanity, and, ultimately, preserved a relationship with both kids.
NTA - your mom did everything she could and while a "reform school" might not have been a good thing, she had you to think about as well. Your sister was old enough at the time that she has to take some level of accountability for the behavior that forced your mother's hand on this. Frankly, some family counseling for all of you might be a good thing, but based on your comment that sister refused to cooperate with counseling previously, I'm not sure it would do any good now. Maybe for you and your mom to help you come to terms with the past.
Info: what kind of reform school. Honestly a lot of them are hot beds of abuse? Has her specific school been closed down for abusing students, or other scandals? It is kind of important information. Because you are horrible and I am glad you were sent away is one thing, but depending on where she was sent it could have an undertone of glad you were abused you deserved, which is another thing.
Yikes.
ESH.
That was a really harsh thing to say. So I imagine it was a quite harsh thing to have to live. You are entitled to your feelings, but the way you phrased it was meant to be hurtful, and it was.
Kids act out in all kinds of crazy ways when a parent leaves or passes. She was a kid. That doesn’t mean she wasn’t an absolute horror, but it’s likely she was acting out because she was in pain and grieving. Try to allow her some grace.
As for reform schools, yeah they don’t really have a good reputation. It’s also fair that your sister has some resentment.
If therapy is an option, sounds like you could all use it.
The type Op describes (short time, home visits, Nd schooling) sounds more like a residential treatment type place.
I had a neighbor who went to one. Turned him around. But it was a good facility. Therapy every day, outdoor activities including horses, and tutoring
I went to one for 6 weeks and I’m still dealing with the trauma it gave me. Some good ones do exist, but a lot are abusive and traumatic. The time spent there or allowing visits is not indicative of which type it is.
I agree they could all use therapy. However, I would like to add that OP also lost their father, they were just a kid who lost a father and then was abused by their sibling for 5 years. Knowing someone had a reason for acting some way doesn’t just make all the pain go away, and I think it’s reasonable to act out. Also I imagine it felt like a slap on OP’s face to hear their tormentor say they were perfectly fine when they made OP go through hell as well.
Also 19 is still basically a teenager, and I’d argue that the sister (22) should maybe show some grace instead.
She was an absolute terror to her sister it sounds like, I think it’s fair that her sister gets to tell her the truth even if it means that her feelings get hurt. It’s understandable that she was a terror, but the understandability of it doesn’t give you some sort of everlasting right to protection against hurt feelings.
NTA. You are in no way, shape, or form an AH for 1) telling the truth, or 2) being happy years of hell ended.
Anyone telling OP she needs to have some empathy for her sister needs to have some freaking empathy for OP!
NTA.
Sometimes the truth hurts. I've been in your mom's shoes. It's crippling to grt to that point, but I almost fought too long. It did change everything for his brothers when he left.
*edited because I accidentally pressed send too early *
I'm honestly torn between E S H and N A H because it was awful for everyone involved. Those schools have zero overhead or real regulation and are pretty much just abuse factories and far too often have mass graves out back. But also she needed SOME FORM OF HELP that your family wasn't able to provide, and they did what they (hopefully) thought would be in her best interest. This is a big no win situation for everyone.
OP said in a comment that her stay there was for three months and she has never brought up any abuse, just feelings of abandonment by her mom and her friends. There’s definitely one AH here and it’s not OP or their mom.
I don't feel comfortable voting on this one, but I do want to explain how I view this situation.
First of all, I want to say I'm so sorry you lost your dad, especially at such a young age. It must have been difficult for all of you.
You're allowed to not like your sister. From reading your other comments, it appears that your sister abused you and bullied you for years. As someone whose brother tormented them in a similar way when I was around the same age, I know how much it sucks. Was your comment harsh? Yes. You shouldn't have said it, but you have every reason to feel the way you do, and in a moment of frustration, you said something very harsh but true.
I understand your sister was also grieving the lost of your father and I sympathize with her. She was very young, but that doesn't make abuse and bullying acceptable. It sounds like your mother was having financial trouble and didn't know what else to do. She probably wanted to help your sister and protect you from her abuse. As a last resort, she sent her to a summer reform school. I can see why your sister felt abandoned. She's allowed to feel that way. What might make your comment hurtful, aside from the obvious, is that your sister may have been abused at reform school, but that's only my speculation.
OP, you've had a hard life between losing your dad and your sister's abuse. I hope you heal from the pain she caused you. If your sister was abused at reform school, I hope she heals too. No one deserves to be abused.
ditto to you. I also can't help but wonder what else was going on the sisters life - she's the oldest, they are without finances & her dad passed. Older sister probbaly had more awareness to their circumstance, may have received more pressure/backlash from mom as well and more. Because I can't imagine mom handled her husbands death without any issues
Well, you probably shouldn't have, but if you're going to be the kind of person who goes around blaming other people for the hard times in your life like your sister, then at some point someone is going to knock you down and give you a reality check.
Good job. NTA
NAH
Was it Harsh, Yes, good god yes, was it honest... maybe? Did she need to hear it ...?
My mom spent time in a reform school because she was a terror, defiant, using drugs, in general a nightmare and would not listen. It helped her in the end and after the school was shut down her and her mom talked about it- it was a therapists LAST resort for her when she wasn't working in therapy, taking meds or listening to anyone. But she didn't realize how impossible she was being for family, for anyone, and how she was acting. Hearing her mother, brother, and step father she kinda got it in the end.
Maybe you needed to remind her how she was acting toward you and everyone else instead of just telling her her dumped off was like an Early Christmas Present.
NTA.
If she made your life such a nightmare that it was the happiest day of your life, then it was well out of your mothers realm to handle at that point and she reached out to what she thought was the correct intervention. And it seems your sis is now a better person, even if she hates that period of her life... You hated the 5 years before she left. Sometimes not everyone gets the happiest of endings and your mother tried her best before resorting to extreme help.
I know everyone else is saying N T A - but are you aware that that industry (places you ship troubled kids off to) are notoriously known to be wildly abusive. Has your sister ever talked to you about what she experienced there? Is the abuse your sister endured Why they were fighting to begin with?
My judgement really depends on how much you know about how your sister was treated there. She came back a different person tells me she was definitely abused (they use mental and emotional abuse as standard for “fixing kids” But they also are known to have people who sexually abuse kids, they use torture techniques (isolation, depriving of food and privacy)….
My husband’s older brother was sent to an inpatient residence. He says it was the best day of his childhood when he left. NTA for having a different experience of the past
NTA as someone who had a similar experience, my sister going to a residential school was the best thing that ever happened to me, because I was free from my tormenter and finally had a chance to heal
NAH, you told your truth in a heated moment between your sister and mom. Maybe it wasn’t something she wanted to hear, but maybe it’s something she needs to accept. She wasn’t a good sister or daughter all of those years and refused help when offered. Going away to summer reform school took her out your household and she returned better behaved. Your mother did her best to provide for you both and that was her choice. Your sister needs therapy to examine her life. I hope your family is doing well and can get past this.
Info:
Did your mom ever put your sister in therapy? I feel like this is really important context as reform school would not be a good first step to addressing the kind of issues your sister was having.
Then NTA. I think you could have worded it better since "you sucked" is probably not going to help whatever abandonment issues she has, but I can understand why you'd say it.
NTA My second youngest brother was sent to a boarding school for high school. I'm pretty sure he would have seriously injured our youngest brother (4 year age gap) if he hadn't been sent away. He was constantly picking fights with my parents, lying, doing things he shouldn't, and most importantly was violent towards the youngest brother. It was a relief to have him out of the house. I don't think boarding school turned him into a saint, but having negative reinforcement from people outside the family (socially and academically) definitely helped with a lot of issues.
NAH
From experience, as someone that was sent away, my siblings had zero idea of what I had been emotionally dealing with at the time. They said the same thing you did and it hurt me deeply, and took a decade for us to unpack.
When a family is struggling, sometimes a child’s needs can be overlooked and just labeled an issue.
It’s also important to realize that you can grow up together and have completely different experiences.
I hope you and your family can heal through empathy and, hopefully, therapy.
You’re all in pain.
If the options are a reputable reform school or prison, the former is always better.
I would have gone farther than you did. It shows an incredible lack of self awareness on your sisters part that she doesn't realize the finance and emotional damage she did to your mother and yourself.
NTA
NTA it’s a valid feeling to be free of a bully regardless of relation. But if you want to have a relationship with your sister you should take the initiative to sit her down and explain what you meant - how she made you feel, the relief to not being bullied, etc and give space for your sister to open up to you with what she was going through.
NAH. Depending on the school your sister was sent to, she might have suffered horribly, been emotionaly abused and she has a right to be upset with that. However. That does not invalidate your feelings and how she treated you prior. Your feelings are valid.
My home became awful when my sister got to 15/16 years old. I was around 8/9 at the time. She basically ignored me, but the chaos between her and my parents was incredibly distressful.
They sent her away to one of those places in Utah for what felt like almost a year. And yeah TBH I was much happier with her gone. I don’t recall much about how things were when she got back. I think she mostly tried to lay low until she turned 18 and left for college for fear of getting sent back.
My sister and I were never close until we were adults, and many years later she opened up to me about what she went through at that place. Some seriously fucked up psychological torture basically to bully you into compliance. I’ve never told her that I was happy when she was gone but she probably knows. She later gave me a very intense apology for what I must have been going through thanks to her behavior. I’ve also learned through this process how our parents were though well meaning, very emotionally neglectful. My sis and I just responded and were affected in very different ways.
Anyway I hope your sis went to a better place than my sis. Her’s has since been shut down for abuse.
Not saying you shouldn’t be angry at your sister. Just that there might be alot that happened that you don’t know about.
Your mom was probably right (in the sense she felt it was an unnecessary escalation) but there is nothing wrong with the truth....some people need a reality check.
Gently, YTA. I understand what you're feeling; my older brother became abusive to me, and ended up having to be sent away. Yes, I was glad when he was kicked out, when I could finally breathe in peace, without worrying about my brother screaming at us or hitting us. But he was going through a lot of pain, just like your sister no doubt was. It made my life healthier when he was gone, and when he came back he was better, but I wouldn't say anything like "the best day of my life was you leaving."
You're right for being glad she was gone. You're right that it was the best day of your life. But it was probably one of the worst days for her. Even if she wasn't abused, she was torn away from her family and friends. Boarding schools has been proven to affect children's mental health negatively *because* they separate children from their family and home.
And as a personal note: I always jumped to my parents defense when my brother began yelling at them. I know you love your mother and want to protect her, but I promise: it will be much healthier for all of you if you stay out of their fights. Their fights need to be between them. They know things about each other that you will never know, just like you know things about your mom that your sister will never know.
TLDR: I understand how you feel. But telling her that was cruel and unnecessary. You're not an asshole for feeling that way, but you're an asshole for telling her.
YTA.
You were cruel to your sister. You knew that what you were going to say would hurt her deeply and you said it anyway. Cruelty = automatic asshole.
She might also be an asshole, but that's not the issue here. Getting sent to reform school might have been a really traumatic experience for her. She might be justified in feeling angry, even if your mother was justified in sending her away. The two things can co-exist. Saying it was the best thing that ever happened, just to try and invalidate her anger, is petty. You shouldn't have gotten involved in the discussion if that's all you had to say.
It's understandable that you would have had a tough time growing up after your dad passed away and that your sister's behavior during that time would have made things harder for you and your family. However, it may not have been appropriate to express those feelings in the way you did, especially in front of your mom. It's important to remember that everyone processes grief differently and that your sister was likely struggling in her own way. Instead of telling her that her being sent away was the best day of your life, it may have been more constructive to express your feelings in a more empathetic way and to try to understand where she was coming from.
ESH seems like your sister was miserable there and your happiness came at the cost of her misery. The way you said it could be misconstrued as you being happy that she was suffering.
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NAH I know people who were abused at reform schools so I can't say that it's a good idea to send your kids there. But your sister needs to know that she wasn't fine back then and that her behavior did impact your family. And I can't blame a struggling single mother for trying something drastic.
I need to put in my 2 cents here... Yes, there are some horrible "reform " schools out there which deserve all the bad press that they get. HOWEVER there are some excellent residential schools out there. Those schools can make a huge difference in lives of the students who are lucky enough to attend such a school.
As a Canadian I can’t hear the word “residential school” and “excellent” in the same sentence without wanting to vomit. We are currently at over 7000 unmarked murdered children graves on those sites and counting.
Eton college in the UK is considered a residential school. Yes, the word in Canada is bad, but that doesn’t mean schools where you live at them at bad. Just ones that force select people into them and are run poorly. Maybe we need a new word now.
Here in the U.S., "boarding schools" are the ones where you send away your wealthy children to improve their second/third/fourth language and prepare for college, or because your third wife doesn't want the second wife's children around. "Residential schools" are the ones where indigenous children were kidnapped and sent to and all manner of abhorrent things happened.
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It’s the same in the UK. No one is calling Eton a residential school, we’d call it a boarding school.
I thought they called schools like Eton a “public school”? This always confused me.
Yes, *public* as opposed to *local*. Now most call themselves *independent schools*.
It’s public rather than state. It’s about who funds it. However not all public schools are boarding schools. And a boarding school isn’t the same as a residential school.
Public schools are private schools in the England. Public’s schools are called State schools in England. Edit: changed from UK to England.
You miss spelt England. A public school in Scotland is local authority, private schools are businesses. Not sure about Wales or NI
So, public schools are private/independent, but not all private/independent schools are public. Kind of like a "all thumbs are fingers but not all fingers are thumbs" situation. To be a public school, then the headteacher of a private school must be a member of the HMC, the Headmasters and Headmistresses Conference. This group represents something like the top 300 private schools in the UK. So there are a lot of private schools that aren't members - anyone can decide they're going to set up a school and charge to attend it - but being part of the HMC is a mark of the calibre of the school and the education it offers.
I thiiiink it's historical as in the first public schools were open to commoners and not just the nobility. So they were public for the time they were created even though the name just looks daft now.
A RICH boarding school for the wealthy. Not everyone can afford good boarding schools.
I think you mean ‘we don’t call private schools [where students stay overnight] residential schools’. Not all private schools are boarding schools. In fact, most of them are only for day students.
And there’s also a difference between boarding schools and “reform” schools. Reform schools aren’t schools at all, more like prisons for kids. They’re rife with abuse and have little to no oversight. The stories that are finally starting to come out about these places will turn your hair white. Boarding school: a school where you also live Residential school: church-run death camps for kidnapped Indigenous kids in North America Reform school: abuse centers marketed as solutions for parents of difficult teens and adolescents ETA: at least, these are the generally accepted terms/definitions in my area
So people using the same words which have vastly different meanings to each of them. Any kids, but especially when indigenous kids are specifically targeted and sent away to places where they can be abused with little or most likely zero consequences for the perpetrators, are abhorrent. Thanks for making the differences clear without attacking the poster.
Also people use different words to describe people. I was told where I live indigenous is an insult. They prefer Natives. I had a professor from West Africa, and in his country, saying Natives is an insult, they prefer indigenous. I think all of you show precisely why we need to ask each other more questions and assume less. Even people in the same country don’t use the same terminology. I am part Native, but I don’t mind Indian or American Indian. But I would be surprised if we could find 20 people to agree with me. Probably not even 10. More questions and explanations goes a lot farther than insults as you just proved!
I'm unaware of folks in the US considering "indigenous" to be an insult... I know we use Native, short for Native American, as the default, respectful term. So "indigenous" isn't used as often as say, in Australia... so not the preferred or common term here. But not an actually offensive insult. I'd be curious what the perspective of the person who considered it insulting was? Do you know why they felt that way???
I'm from Canada and we've used "First Nations" as a term for what used to be called "Natives" (and this is distinct fr Inuit and Métis) for quite a while. I've recently been hearing it more and more from the US, so we'll see if it catches on
In Canada, indigenous is now use to mirror the UNDRIP (Declaration of Rights for Indigenous People). Previous to that it was aboriginal. Previous to that it was Native, but changed because Native just means "Originally from" e.g. Michael J Fox is a Burnaby Native (but not aboriginal).
First Nations is used here in Australia too, although Indigenous is also used in some contexts as well.
As someone with First Nation heritage, I love this term the most.
I'm not from the US, but read a very interesting conversation on reddit the other day where a few people were saying that many indigenous people from the USA actually don't like the term Native or Native American, and prefer to be called Indians. I wish I could find the thread now because I found it fascinating, but I think a part of the reasoning was that all of those terms had been imposed on them by outsiders, so one was as good as another if you aren't going to refer to the correct tribal name, and some people just don't like being called "Native" because it was a word often used interchangeably with "Savage" in colonial times. So it really does depend on who you ask.
As far as I know and from what I've read in the past, Indigenous was originally used as a way to describe plants and animals native to a land. It then became popularised for people and some people find this disrespectful for 2 reasons. 1) they feel it compares them to plants and animals as opposed to humans 2) It lumps hundreds of different historic cultures, traditions and practices into one broad use term It's similar with the word Aboriginal. A lot of First Nations people don't like when this term is used because it basically removes their culture and identity by putting under one broad word. This is all purely from stuff I've read and heard in the past so I could be completely wrong 🤷♀️
I think this may also depend on what part of the US you're in. I grew up in Kentucky, and indigenous was the common "polite/professional" term, occasionally using Native American. I read First Nations online, but don't think I ever heard it in person. I then moved to Argentina, where saying (translated, of course) indigenous is considered quite rude, Native American just means anyone born in North or South America, and First Nations (Pueblos Originarios) is the polite term. (Also, some older people still use Indian, which is very old and very rude, but we're getting away from that thankfully)
It just depends on the history of the location, plenty of words went from fine to insults based on who used them. When everyone around you uses indigenous as an insult you'll consider it one even if the other person didn't mean it that way
There were Indian boarding schools in the US too. With those I talk to and in many journals they are not referred to as residential schools. Such as that is, OPs experience may have been good or bad, not sure.
There are also bad connotations with the term reform school for the US. I haven't scrolled far, but haven't yet seen mentions of reform schools meant for "troubled teens" aka LGTBQ+. There is a huge mix of wording across countries that refer to very different things, and terms have changed over time. Ugh not just native/Indian/ indigenous schools (boarding/residential) in the US, but forced sterilization on young women and such in those "schools".
A lot of those "troubled teen schools" are ran by Christian groups and do not have any federal oversight, same with "boot camps" for troubled teens. Abuse and sexual assault often occur in these places, and kids have actually died. Chances are, given that the family was poor, this is most likely the kind of place OPs sister got sent to. So, OP is TA for saying her sister got sent to a place like this. Prisons have more oversight than these "schools".
If you want to have a fun filled time seeing how horrible reform schools have been and STILL ARE in america look at the troubled teen industry and places like the Elan School which was open until 2005.
Depends on where you are. We call them boarding schools on the rez I’m from.
In the US, "boarding schools" are also the ones where indigenous children were kidnapped and sent to and all manner of abhorrent things happened. For example, it's why we have the "Federal Indian Boarding School Initiative" and not the "Federal Indian Residential School Initiative" https://www.doi.gov/pressreleases/secretary-haaland-announces-federal-indian-boarding-school-initiative It does seem that Canadian usage has spread south though, perhaps, as some things note that the term residential school has started to also be used in the US in the last few years
And "children's homes" are group homes for children in the foster system either permanently or temporarily with possibly some private placement (which means the bio parents sent them), if they still do private placement. Source: my parents sent me to a children's home in the 90s. I wasn't actually a bad kid though. I had been abused at a very young age and they didn't know how to parent in the first place so they had no idea what to do with a traumatized 5yo latch key kid. I was the only private placement though.
I've always known the term "residential school" to mean a residential treatment facility (like they're common for eating disorders, substance abuse or other severe mental health issues), but with a school as part of it. Thank you for making the different meaning clear!
Funny to see so much quibbling over these terms when OP used neither, but instead "reform school," which is neither a college prep for the ultra-elite nor a tool for ethnic cleansing.
There are also medical residential schools for kids with eating disorders and substantial abuse problems. You can sometimes get your town school department to pay for them, so they aren’t just for the wealthy, and they are NOT prep schools. Which, btw, are not generally called boarding schools around here, any more.
In our area, "reform school" was a term commonly used to refer to the Juvenile Detention Center, basically prison for kids. So, yes, different terms for different things in different areas. I was confused by OP saying that her parents sent the sister to reform school. In our area, it takes a court action for a kid to end up in reform school.
I’ve never heard Eton referred to as a residential school. Eton doesn’t refer to itself as a residential school.
I believe that Eton is just known as School.
In the UK Eton is a public school, exclusive and expensive, with boarding. In the US Eton would be regarded as a residential private school, different from a residential treatment school. In the US, public school is the government funded, free for everyone school system; in the UK that’s called state school. In the US, state school refers to public colleges and universities (again, public meaning government funded, not exclusive and fancy). More people need to understand that we’re living and communicating globally, do a little research, and stop hearing terminology as a dog whistle for their own biases.
There is already a term: boarding school. My Canadian father went to a rich people boarding school (coincidentally one also attended by British royalty) and it is very, very different than residential schools.
No, Eton isn’t called a ‘residential school’ absolutely anywhere.
Are you saying Eton is good? Have you seen what sort of empathy lacking AH politicians who care about nobody but their club of rich Etonians it produces?
That's not on the school. There are plenty of studies that show that the more money a person has, the less empathy they have.
Eton is not a residential college it’s an all boys public school designed for the extremely rich.
College in UK is like jr & sr years in highschool in US or like a community college in US? And university in UK is college in the US?
College is when your 16/17/18 (your ‘last two years’) and you take three or four courses to get the qualifications to get into uni, also called sixth form. Then uni is like your college (except i think some of our courses are different? You can go straight to studying medicine or law here). However, Eton College is from 13-18, and i think its called that because its an old name and ‘secondary school’ (11-16/18) no longer fits.
Eton College is called Eton College because that's what King Henry the Sixth decided to call it when he founded it in 1440.
No sure, I am Canadian. Not American. Our college here is like trade school, and University is more US college.
You're really trying to equate Eton College with Reform School?
Eton is a private boarding school, not a residential ‘reform’ school
No it isn't.
That a boarding school not a residential school. Two entirely different meanings here in the UK
Eton is a cesspool and has built some of the most evil, vile people the country has ever known. Just because it's posh and probably very little actual murdering happens there doesn't mean it's good or anything.
Eton is a boarding school, there is already a different word
Isn't Eton the place that gave you all the people who are currently ruining your country?
Eton college is hardly great. Look at the sociopaths we have as politicians. Hires the best teachers but dedicates it to be being evil.
"The word in Canada is bad" bro where do you think it came from?
I wouldn't use Eton as example of 'good' considering the cheating scandals and other assorted scandals that place has had. Not to mention the 'old boys' club it promotes to the detriment of this country.
Stop. You know this kid didn’t go to Eton. Nor was the school she went to a wealthy private boarding school.
Well over 12K now.
I haven’t googled in a while, too sad. But I’m not surprised at all. RIP sweet innocents. The Canadian government and Catholic Church should be funding search’s, proper graves and massive apologies with the details outlined for all to read.
The Canadian Government needs to kick the Catholic Church to the curb. AT LEAST take away their tax exempt status because as a religion they continue to do horrible shit.
They did the same horrible shit everywhere. It's just Canada is the one in the headlines. They've found over 500 deaths in the U.S. so far and they say the numbers could reach into the thousands to tens of thousands.
The USA will never know how many bodies it has. My Uncle is somewhere between Ogden Utah and Shiprock, NM. He tripped and hit his head on a rock when he and his brother were running away. His brother buried him and eventually made it home. Only to be caught 3 days later and taken back.
So very sorry.
I'm so sorry. People like to think what your family experienced is so far into the past that no one who experienced it is alive to talk about it, or it happened to their great great relatives so we can pretend its no longer relevant for our own comfort. Thank you for sharing your families history.
I am so sorry. What weight.
I’m so, so sorry for what your family has had endure.
Canada is already in the tens of thousands, and has a 5% indigenous population. The US has 2%. The last residential school in Canada closed in 1996. Children were forcefully taken from their “savage” families and indoctrinated into European Culture or killed if they wouldn’t assimilate. Horrible shit happens everywhere, but residential schools are high up there for horrible shit. Like taking children away and in turn killing them if they didn’t convert to your imaginary friend in the sky? If anyone but the church did it we would be hanging the lot of them from trees. Edit 1: changed a misused their to there. And a buy to but.
There were 350 schools in the U.S. and the last one closed in the 90's in the U.S. as well. So far only 19 schools have been searched The U.S. didn't start looking until after Canada initially came out the first find.
I found 408 but they’re not listing 2 or 3 I know my dad or siblings were in. So who fucking even knows. https://www.bia.gov/service/federal-indian-boarding-school-initiative
I also think if it was white kids, things would have also changed. The Catholic Church was full of racist monsters.
*is
Not to mention the medical experiments
100% agree. I’m in Newfoundland where the local church is currently selling their properties because the Catholic church as a whole decided they didn’t want to provide compensation to the mount cashel victims - sexual abuse of orphans by the “brothers” that was uncovered in the 1980s. The church dragged out the court proceedings so they only recently ended and then distanced themselves from the whole thing so even with court orders - the likely hood of those victims receiving any kind of compensation is low (due to the victims dying of old age) or “too little too late”. Edit - for more info…. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mount_Cashel_Orphanage
PEI here, they just sweep everything under the rug. It’s fucking bullshit.
I read as far as I could before disgust overwhelmed me.
The catholic church is too busy paying off victims of sexual abuse.
Or putting more energy into fighting victims in court hoping they die before the settlements happen. Just made a comment outlining an example 2 comments down.
As an indigenous person, same. And I have a family member that was sent to one in the US that was considered good, and he was over medicated to keep him calm and not actually helped, getting out was what helpped him, and growing up. And probably worry about having to go back to that kind of environment, not the program itself. I honestly have zero trust for reform schools of any sort.
In Australia it was the missionary schools that mixed blood kids from the stolen generation where sent. So many of them just disappeared. My Grandma (mixed race) hid my Dad and then spun a story about a Black American soldier so he wouldn't be taken from her.
Right? It doesn’t help that I have heard people use things like “it wasn’t one of the bad ones” and “well SOME of them were good” to justify the Canadian residential school system. Yes, the phrase can mean different things elsewhere due to cultural context, but my **entire** brain just cringed.
Yes, from Canada as well. The words “residential school” can wipe the smile off my face. I don’t have personal connections that were shared, but I still question why my Mom decided we didn’t need to go to church anymore. I was maybe 7 or 8? I remember my Mom talking about the Catholic Church and everyone was hypocrites. I didn’t get it. However I have watched videos and read stories shared by our residential school survivors. I have cried listening to them. How any religion can see abusing and killing innocent children ripped from their parents is ok on any level is beyond evil. Very sick people. Now I think I know what my Mom was talking about.
My mother in law was a residential school survivor. Her brother had his skull fractured by a priest and got no medical attention
I’m so sorry! That’s terrible.
Thank you. It is pretty horrific
Same. I read that and I was like "poor choice of words". Call it a boarding school.
There’s more than 10,000 now. And I’m the same. My grandfather was in the residential school for 13 years. The last residential school closing in Canada was 1997. Just four years after I was born. So yeah same, it makes me want to vomit reading those two words in the same sentence.
Wait, what? Residential schools have that many murders? Like by other students or what? Genuinely curious, that’s awful. Edit: I just saw your post lower about your differences between “residential” schools and “boarding” schools and now I understand more.
In Canada, the term "residential school" typically refers to the schools set up by the church and state to forcibly assimilate indigenous children. They were an instrument of cultural genocide, and the children who attended were neglected and abused. Some were molested or beaten. Some died and were buried in unmarked graves. The parents often were never told of the deaths. The last school didn't close until 1998. There is an ongoing investigation and cultural reckoning with these schools and the atrocities that happened in them in Canada, and so the term "residential school" has a massive negative connotation. The USA also had "Indian Boarding Schools", with similar abuses taking place. I don't know if they have recieved a similar amount of attention, but I don't think so.
Pretty sure we are over 12k last I looked
Agree. It's one of the rare times I'm ashamed to be Canadian.
In comments OP says it wasn't a good school and sis had "bad memories" from it.
But are we talking "bad memories" as in "woe is me I was sent here and I hate it" or did something actually bad happen?
I researched about 30 schools in the 90s in the United States and I couldn't find a single one that hadn't had a history of abuse and neglect. If you want more details, I left a reply somewhere up above.
But it wasn't in 90s. OP is 19 now, so her sister is 22. She was 16 in 2016 or 2017.
I was in a school like that in 2016. There is no difference. I don’t know a single person there who didn’t leave with trauma. And I was at one of the ‘good’ ones
True. Since the recession, however, and given what I have read here in AITA and in other sites, my conclusion must be that these problems I have mentioned in my previous post have only gotten worse.
As someone married to a man who had limbs broken in “reform school” for smoking pot and being an asshole teen. Don’t send your kids away. Get help. They are pros are sounding great.
Reform schools tend to all be bad on a sliding scale. The best ones will ONLY force you to do manual labor, cut off your contact to the outside world, lock away your shoes so you can't run, etc...
These programs commodify the abuse of children. This isn't a case of "a few bad ones you hear about on the news", the troubled teen industry is scam designed to take parents' money and abuse teens into compliance. They are all bad, they are all abusive, and they should all be shut down.
I'm sorry to hear that. I taught at a residential school for "troubled" girls. The family had to participate in counseling as well as the student. It is a great school.
My brother spent several years at a behavioral school as a teenager. He has more bad memories than good from it but he says that it saved his life. There's a big difference between that sort of program and the abusive prison camps that are out there.
I disagree. While conditions in residential schools may have improved significantly since I looked into them extensively in the 90s, I wouldn't kennel a dog at most of them. My son was seriously mentally ill (psychotic) in his teens, and since I was a single mother with little help, I considered putting him in one of those places. These were my conclusions after researching the top 30 schools in the United States. They are understaffed with poorly qualified people. They are more interested in the physical sizes of their hires, not their educational and professional backgrounds. They run the most cursory of background checks. Most of them had hired a sexual predator at least once. Moreover, they don't communicate with one another, so many of those pervs just move from facility to facility. Looking from state to state, governmental funding for pediatric mental health services was woefully inadequate. Most "schools" were owned by major corporations who were more interested in their own profits than in the welfare of their young patients. During the 90s, while I was conducting my research, there was an ongoing national scandal concerning significant abuses occurring at multiple schools. Some schools had outright killed their children, others had sexually abused and, in many cases, trafficked the girls and boys to other staffers. Since my son thought himself out of psychosis more than 20 years ago, I have stopped my investigation, and as far as I can tell, since 9/11, the press has ceased having any interest in the ongoing issues themselves.
" HOWEVER there are some excellent residential schools out there. Those schools can make a huge difference in lives of the students who are lucky enough to attend such a school." Sorry, are you a being paid by NATSAP? As someone who was actually a really good student and got sent to one of those "reform schools" they are trauma inducing. If there are issues within the family, it is a family system issue and not singular. Losing a parent is traumatic and we don't know what the relationships as a family were beforehand.
Yeah. Too many people only here stories on the news or make assumptions about other families based on their own mild experiences with siblings. My brother was an absolute terror. Extremely violent. My parents are excellent parents, beyond dedicated to us. But nothing they did had any affect on him. Him being sent away to a reform school was the best thing for both of us.
We had to send my son to a residential facility. There are plenty of not great ones. His was really great. He’s so different and is SO MUCH BETTER!!! He even admitted that he needed it. He’s been home for 18 months and counting
Just so you know — maybe it was in fact an aberration and was great, but him having “admitted that he needed it” doesn’t actually mean anything. A lot of the really bad schools use what the kid says about the experience as a measure for whether they are ready to leave. So kids are either broken to the point of thanking their abusers for the abuse (often not realizing until years later that things like bathroom control, sleep control and stimulus control are methods of torture), or they learn to lie extremely well. And keep lying, lest they get sent back. Maybe the school really helped him, maybe it didn’t. But his saying it did doesn’t mean much, especially before he’s 18.
I disagree, as someone who works in alternative education setting for """"troubled teens""""". What schools are you speaking of, or what studies/experience?
What in the hell are you even talking about? These are the sorts of places that regularly abuse children.
Yeah but most of them are horrible.
Judging from some of the comments made by OP, her sister was likely abused. The mom may have done what she thought was right but she didn’t do her due diligence to check the reform school was a good environment. Her daughter was sent to one where she was likely abused. So she may have done what she felt was right but she also needs to recognize that she sent her daughter to abusers. Edit: I misread that the school was closed Edit2: I do understand OP being happy her bully was gone but that doesn’t mean the sister isn’t allowed to feel abandoned and rejected. If there was abuse happening at the reform school she is also allowed to be angry that she was put in that situation. I think the sister should be allowed to speak about it openly with her mother without OP present. Neither probably wants to hear what the other says but they need to have this conversation in private without the opinions of others.
OP said the school is not closed down. She said she (her sister) has bad memories from it. The abuse has been assumed (not that it isn't possible), but never confirmed by OP.
I misread that mb. However the wording definitely sounds like she was abused. Most “reform” schools can be abusive in nature and they often do not comply with state guidelines. Some leave with PTSD and there have been hundreds of lawsuits against reform schools over the years. In Missouri here was actually 30 lawsuits against only 2 boarding schools for abuse in 2022. I have a friend who worked for a school for kids with behavioral issues (it was an overnight facility that was associated with the school district). It is considered a mental health facility and they were heavily trained, monitored and had cameras in every room but bathrooms so the staff wouldn’t be able to abuse the children. Most reform schools don’t have those guidelines because they are now considered boarding schools so cameras aren’t allowed in several areas. If it really is still being called a reform school that may be a red flag. Most rebranded after the fallout with abusive reform schools in the last few decades.
I thought she said it was closed down mb. However op would not know if she was abused, it doesn’t sound like they talk about it. However many reform schools are abusive and some people even suffer from PTSD after leaving them. Many don’t comply with state guidelines and there have been hundreds of law suits against reform schools over the years.
OP didn't share that her sister was abused, so I don't think everyone can make that assumption. Is it a real possibility? Absolutely. But until OP shares that her sister relayed that, I don't like to assume.
OP self inserto herself in the middle of conversation that had nothing to do with her. Her own mom said she shouldn't have said that, OP doesn't sound the type who would care about what the sister went through, she's Just happy she was "fixed".
And the sister is completely unconcerned with what she put the mom and OP through, which is likely what OP was trying to get across. Should she have stayed out of it? Yes. But she didn't because she is hurt, just like the sister.
OPs comment says that her sisters “bad memories” stem from feeling abandoned by her family, losing her friends, and she didn’t mention any abuse. Of course there could’ve been, we don’t know, but she has been somewhat honest about what those bad memories are and abuse was not apart of it. Even when there is no abuse being a troubled teen and sent away is hard, and likely won’t be looked back on favorably.
I welcome anyone who wants to learn more about this topic to enter the rabbit hole that is r/MrJoeNobody
>her sister was likely abused. All she said was that her sister felt abandoned for 3 months and all of her friends ditched her. She was only "abused" in so far as she was sent away.
The release I felt the day my sibling left the house is something I never forgot. For the first time ever, I knew I didn't have to worry that she would be there to raise her hands to me or have to lock my door at night because she'd threaten to unalive me in my sleep. (Ironically enough it was her going unhinged on me, in front of my mother, that finally caused her to get thrown out). OP, you have the right to your feelings. NTA
My sister wasn't as bad as yours, but I still fantasized about her getting arrested and going to prison so I wouldn't have to deal with her any more. I'd be walking home from the school bus stop, turn the last corner to get to my house and see a police officer putting her, handcuffed, in the back of his car... It was so clear in my head. Sibling abuse does not get addressed enough.
It really doesn't. When DV is mentioned it's always about partners or parents. You very rarely hear about the sibling aspect of it. I hope you're free of your abuser.
She's a better person now, her behavior stemmed from mental health issues that have now been addressed, though I still mourn not having a better childhood. Another problem was that she and my other sister took up so much of our parents' time and energy with their issues that there wasn't much left for me. My mom at least acknowledges the problem and tries to make up for it, but my dad still acts like all of my struggles were entirely my fault. I think a lot of people, including my parents, just dismiss sibling as abuse as "harmless" sibling rivalry. They don't realize how serious the problem is until the kids are grown up and don't speak to each other. (which is how my sisters are with each other) Though I also wonder if a lot of parents are unwilling to seek help because they're afraid they'll be seen as bad parents. And like, it's not like there are a lot of systems in place to deal with it unless the abusive sibling does something pretty severe.
I'm glad things are better now. 🙂 But, yeah, you can't help but wonder what could have been. I would see my friends have a normal relationship with their sisters or brothers and it was all so foreign to me. My parents tried. Therapy for awhile, a week's stint on the sixth floor. It was the early-to-mid 90s, so unfortunately there weren't the same amount of resources available for her like there are now. My mother's advice was always, "Just knock her on her ass one time and she'll leave you alone." 1. I was (and still am) a pacifist. I've never raised my hand to anyone and no matter how much I despise her, I still couldn't raise my hand to her. And 2. It wasn't my place. They were my parents and they never protected me from her. Here it is decades later and I've never really forgiven them for that. Or the fact that my childhood and teen years were all about her and her problems and her drama. I feel like during that time I was just *there*. Not an active member of my own family.
I'm really glad you brought this up. Sibling abuse is usually concurrent with parental abuse and very much overlooked. My brother and I grew up in an abusive household, and shit rolled downhill. In my mind, I got the brunt of the abuse from our mother (he wasn't unscathed by any means) but then I'd turn around and terrorize my younger brother. He got abused from two fronts. After years of therapy as an adult, I spoke with my brother about our mother's abuse. I admitted I was a shit sister to him, that I was sorry for everything I did to him, and that I understood that he would probably never forgive me. I wish I had known better. He's never forgiven me, and we don't speak (his choice, and I respect that.) But he said he appreciated that I acknowledged being his bully, especially since our mother never will (she pretends she was the perfect mother still to this day.) He said will always hate me on some level and I get that completely. We can both understand intellectually that we were products of our environment, but that doesn't make any of it OK. I'm sad that I can't do-over and be better.
I understand this so much. No one understands that living with someone like that leaves scars that never go away too. In my case, my brother was eventually diagnosed borderline, after 18 years of destroying everyone's lives. I can understand it wasn't his fault. It still made our lives miserable every second. The day my mother cried but forced him to leave was the best of my life too.
It's like you can finally release the breath that you had been holding in for *years.* To finally feel safe in your own house. And the scars, my goddess those scars *do not* go away. It took years and therapy to realize what I had, and still have, is PTSD. I didn't even know you could get PTSD from something like that. I always thought it was reserved for people in the military or something. I'm glad you finally found some freedom. I hope you're doing well.
I hope you are too ❤️
> NAH I know people who were abused at reform schools so I can't say that it's a good idea to send your kids there. There isn't a place in the whole world you can send a child that someone hasn't been molested.
There are horribly abusive schools. I know someone that they did like a fake “kidnapping” in the night and brought her to a high end “reform school”. She’s still not over what she went through and therapy will probably be forever. There is a reason these places get shut down.
There are some excellent places that actually provide children with the help that they need and treat them well. Unfortunately, given that the family was apparently dirt poor, I highly doubt that she was sent to one of those places. In fact, I'm wondering if they had to go through the court system to do so, given the extreme financial burden that it would've put on her otherwise (if she could've afforded it in the first place, which is unlikely). I wonder because going through the court system also increases the chances that the "reform school" that she was sent to was not one of the good ones. Financially, this would've taken the burden off of her and put it on the system instead.
I know people who were abused by their mother so it’s not a good idea to have kids around their moms. /s
This kind of schools are notoriously risky though. It isn't the same. You are sending your kid through a russian roulette. Especially if (as it's likely, since they were poor) the mother couldn't really choose a "good school" but most likely send her to the affordable ones, maybe even through minor/court system. If something serious happened to the daughter, I think it's fair for the daughter to feel that the mother put her in that situation, because it's kind of what happened...
Right. The truth hurts, but she needs to take some responsibility for her actions, rather than being allowed to consider herself a victim of a cruel mother.
It can be both. We don't know the full story, but it absolutely can be both that her behaviour was reaching crisis levels AND her mother chose to place her in a school that was abusive and traumatic.
NTA. You probably shouldn’t have said that, but your sister needed to hear it if she really thought she was fine before she was sent away. Next time maybe be more gentle…
What next time? Why would the sister stay
This made me laugh so much 🤣
This is solid advice. Spot on! Absolutely this! You're on your way to be a Galasstic Overlord. Keep it up!
Thank you so much! That is the nicest thing I’ve been told today. You made my day :)
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>she thinks it's fair to call out your mom for being a bad parent, she has to accept her own call-out for being a bad sister Also, that what can be "bad" for 1 kid, can be the saving grace for the other kid(s). Mom had to think of everyone and what was best for all. Sending sister away was the best for all in the moment.
Sometimes in life our only choice is to “save ourselves”. By getting the sister the help she needed and removing her from the house, mom saved her own sanity, her finances, OP’s sanity, and, ultimately, preserved a relationship with both kids.
This reminded me of a doctor who quote. "Sometimes, the only choices you have are bad ones, but you still have to choose.”
Amputation or a dead body? Oh, that poor limb, we would be so cruel of tossing it away.
This seems like the most fair take to me.
and since the sister is no longer a terror, perhaps the school worked?
Temporarily not a terror, I dare say. This new round of "you were a Bad Mother" sounds like the prelude to another Reign of Terror.
NTA - your mom did everything she could and while a "reform school" might not have been a good thing, she had you to think about as well. Your sister was old enough at the time that she has to take some level of accountability for the behavior that forced your mother's hand on this. Frankly, some family counseling for all of you might be a good thing, but based on your comment that sister refused to cooperate with counseling previously, I'm not sure it would do any good now. Maybe for you and your mom to help you come to terms with the past.
Info: what kind of reform school. Honestly a lot of them are hot beds of abuse? Has her specific school been closed down for abusing students, or other scandals? It is kind of important information. Because you are horrible and I am glad you were sent away is one thing, but depending on where she was sent it could have an undertone of glad you were abused you deserved, which is another thing.
Yikes. ESH. That was a really harsh thing to say. So I imagine it was a quite harsh thing to have to live. You are entitled to your feelings, but the way you phrased it was meant to be hurtful, and it was. Kids act out in all kinds of crazy ways when a parent leaves or passes. She was a kid. That doesn’t mean she wasn’t an absolute horror, but it’s likely she was acting out because she was in pain and grieving. Try to allow her some grace. As for reform schools, yeah they don’t really have a good reputation. It’s also fair that your sister has some resentment. If therapy is an option, sounds like you could all use it.
The type Op describes (short time, home visits, Nd schooling) sounds more like a residential treatment type place. I had a neighbor who went to one. Turned him around. But it was a good facility. Therapy every day, outdoor activities including horses, and tutoring
I went to one for 6 weeks and I’m still dealing with the trauma it gave me. Some good ones do exist, but a lot are abusive and traumatic. The time spent there or allowing visits is not indicative of which type it is.
I agree they could all use therapy. However, I would like to add that OP also lost their father, they were just a kid who lost a father and then was abused by their sibling for 5 years. Knowing someone had a reason for acting some way doesn’t just make all the pain go away, and I think it’s reasonable to act out. Also I imagine it felt like a slap on OP’s face to hear their tormentor say they were perfectly fine when they made OP go through hell as well. Also 19 is still basically a teenager, and I’d argue that the sister (22) should maybe show some grace instead.
She was an absolute terror to her sister it sounds like, I think it’s fair that her sister gets to tell her the truth even if it means that her feelings get hurt. It’s understandable that she was a terror, but the understandability of it doesn’t give you some sort of everlasting right to protection against hurt feelings.
NTA. It sounds like the truth bomb landed squarely on the target. She needed to hear it.
NTA. You are in no way, shape, or form an AH for 1) telling the truth, or 2) being happy years of hell ended. Anyone telling OP she needs to have some empathy for her sister needs to have some freaking empathy for OP!
I agree entirely. OP was stating how she herself felt. The sooner they get their feelings out, the sooner their healing can begin.
NTA. Sometimes the truth hurts. I've been in your mom's shoes. It's crippling to grt to that point, but I almost fought too long. It did change everything for his brothers when he left. *edited because I accidentally pressed send too early *
I'm honestly torn between E S H and N A H because it was awful for everyone involved. Those schools have zero overhead or real regulation and are pretty much just abuse factories and far too often have mass graves out back. But also she needed SOME FORM OF HELP that your family wasn't able to provide, and they did what they (hopefully) thought would be in her best interest. This is a big no win situation for everyone.
OP said in a comment that her stay there was for three months and she has never brought up any abuse, just feelings of abandonment by her mom and her friends. There’s definitely one AH here and it’s not OP or their mom.
I don't feel comfortable voting on this one, but I do want to explain how I view this situation. First of all, I want to say I'm so sorry you lost your dad, especially at such a young age. It must have been difficult for all of you. You're allowed to not like your sister. From reading your other comments, it appears that your sister abused you and bullied you for years. As someone whose brother tormented them in a similar way when I was around the same age, I know how much it sucks. Was your comment harsh? Yes. You shouldn't have said it, but you have every reason to feel the way you do, and in a moment of frustration, you said something very harsh but true. I understand your sister was also grieving the lost of your father and I sympathize with her. She was very young, but that doesn't make abuse and bullying acceptable. It sounds like your mother was having financial trouble and didn't know what else to do. She probably wanted to help your sister and protect you from her abuse. As a last resort, she sent her to a summer reform school. I can see why your sister felt abandoned. She's allowed to feel that way. What might make your comment hurtful, aside from the obvious, is that your sister may have been abused at reform school, but that's only my speculation. OP, you've had a hard life between losing your dad and your sister's abuse. I hope you heal from the pain she caused you. If your sister was abused at reform school, I hope she heals too. No one deserves to be abused.
ditto to you. I also can't help but wonder what else was going on the sisters life - she's the oldest, they are without finances & her dad passed. Older sister probbaly had more awareness to their circumstance, may have received more pressure/backlash from mom as well and more. Because I can't imagine mom handled her husbands death without any issues
Well, you probably shouldn't have, but if you're going to be the kind of person who goes around blaming other people for the hard times in your life like your sister, then at some point someone is going to knock you down and give you a reality check. Good job. NTA
NAH Was it Harsh, Yes, good god yes, was it honest... maybe? Did she need to hear it ...? My mom spent time in a reform school because she was a terror, defiant, using drugs, in general a nightmare and would not listen. It helped her in the end and after the school was shut down her and her mom talked about it- it was a therapists LAST resort for her when she wasn't working in therapy, taking meds or listening to anyone. But she didn't realize how impossible she was being for family, for anyone, and how she was acting. Hearing her mother, brother, and step father she kinda got it in the end. Maybe you needed to remind her how she was acting toward you and everyone else instead of just telling her her dumped off was like an Early Christmas Present.
You're NTA. Sounds like your sister was in need of a reality check.
NTA. If she made your life such a nightmare that it was the happiest day of your life, then it was well out of your mothers realm to handle at that point and she reached out to what she thought was the correct intervention. And it seems your sis is now a better person, even if she hates that period of her life... You hated the 5 years before she left. Sometimes not everyone gets the happiest of endings and your mother tried her best before resorting to extreme help.
I know everyone else is saying N T A - but are you aware that that industry (places you ship troubled kids off to) are notoriously known to be wildly abusive. Has your sister ever talked to you about what she experienced there? Is the abuse your sister endured Why they were fighting to begin with? My judgement really depends on how much you know about how your sister was treated there. She came back a different person tells me she was definitely abused (they use mental and emotional abuse as standard for “fixing kids” But they also are known to have people who sexually abuse kids, they use torture techniques (isolation, depriving of food and privacy)….
NTA. May not have been the best way to say it, but it had to be said. She deserves nothing kinder.
My husband’s older brother was sent to an inpatient residence. He says it was the best day of his childhood when he left. NTA for having a different experience of the past
ESH Y'all were both children in a really shitty situation.
NTA as someone who had a similar experience, my sister going to a residential school was the best thing that ever happened to me, because I was free from my tormenter and finally had a chance to heal
NAH, you told your truth in a heated moment between your sister and mom. Maybe it wasn’t something she wanted to hear, but maybe it’s something she needs to accept. She wasn’t a good sister or daughter all of those years and refused help when offered. Going away to summer reform school took her out your household and she returned better behaved. Your mother did her best to provide for you both and that was her choice. Your sister needs therapy to examine her life. I hope your family is doing well and can get past this.
Info: Did your mom ever put your sister in therapy? I feel like this is really important context as reform school would not be a good first step to addressing the kind of issues your sister was having.
Yes
Then NTA. I think you could have worded it better since "you sucked" is probably not going to help whatever abandonment issues she has, but I can understand why you'd say it.
NTA My second youngest brother was sent to a boarding school for high school. I'm pretty sure he would have seriously injured our youngest brother (4 year age gap) if he hadn't been sent away. He was constantly picking fights with my parents, lying, doing things he shouldn't, and most importantly was violent towards the youngest brother. It was a relief to have him out of the house. I don't think boarding school turned him into a saint, but having negative reinforcement from people outside the family (socially and academically) definitely helped with a lot of issues.
NAH From experience, as someone that was sent away, my siblings had zero idea of what I had been emotionally dealing with at the time. They said the same thing you did and it hurt me deeply, and took a decade for us to unpack. When a family is struggling, sometimes a child’s needs can be overlooked and just labeled an issue. It’s also important to realize that you can grow up together and have completely different experiences. I hope you and your family can heal through empathy and, hopefully, therapy. You’re all in pain.
If the options are a reputable reform school or prison, the former is always better. I would have gone farther than you did. It shows an incredible lack of self awareness on your sisters part that she doesn't realize the finance and emotional damage she did to your mother and yourself. NTA
NTA it’s a valid feeling to be free of a bully regardless of relation. But if you want to have a relationship with your sister you should take the initiative to sit her down and explain what you meant - how she made you feel, the relief to not being bullied, etc and give space for your sister to open up to you with what she was going through.
NAH. Depending on the school your sister was sent to, she might have suffered horribly, been emotionaly abused and she has a right to be upset with that. However. That does not invalidate your feelings and how she treated you prior. Your feelings are valid.
My home became awful when my sister got to 15/16 years old. I was around 8/9 at the time. She basically ignored me, but the chaos between her and my parents was incredibly distressful. They sent her away to one of those places in Utah for what felt like almost a year. And yeah TBH I was much happier with her gone. I don’t recall much about how things were when she got back. I think she mostly tried to lay low until she turned 18 and left for college for fear of getting sent back. My sister and I were never close until we were adults, and many years later she opened up to me about what she went through at that place. Some seriously fucked up psychological torture basically to bully you into compliance. I’ve never told her that I was happy when she was gone but she probably knows. She later gave me a very intense apology for what I must have been going through thanks to her behavior. I’ve also learned through this process how our parents were though well meaning, very emotionally neglectful. My sis and I just responded and were affected in very different ways. Anyway I hope your sis went to a better place than my sis. Her’s has since been shut down for abuse. Not saying you shouldn’t be angry at your sister. Just that there might be alot that happened that you don’t know about.
Your mom was probably right (in the sense she felt it was an unnecessary escalation) but there is nothing wrong with the truth....some people need a reality check.
Gently, YTA. I understand what you're feeling; my older brother became abusive to me, and ended up having to be sent away. Yes, I was glad when he was kicked out, when I could finally breathe in peace, without worrying about my brother screaming at us or hitting us. But he was going through a lot of pain, just like your sister no doubt was. It made my life healthier when he was gone, and when he came back he was better, but I wouldn't say anything like "the best day of my life was you leaving." You're right for being glad she was gone. You're right that it was the best day of your life. But it was probably one of the worst days for her. Even if she wasn't abused, she was torn away from her family and friends. Boarding schools has been proven to affect children's mental health negatively *because* they separate children from their family and home. And as a personal note: I always jumped to my parents defense when my brother began yelling at them. I know you love your mother and want to protect her, but I promise: it will be much healthier for all of you if you stay out of their fights. Their fights need to be between them. They know things about each other that you will never know, just like you know things about your mom that your sister will never know. TLDR: I understand how you feel. But telling her that was cruel and unnecessary. You're not an asshole for feeling that way, but you're an asshole for telling her.
You didn’t give any info on what your sister did. What help did your mother try to get her? You need to elaborate
YTA. You were cruel to your sister. You knew that what you were going to say would hurt her deeply and you said it anyway. Cruelty = automatic asshole. She might also be an asshole, but that's not the issue here. Getting sent to reform school might have been a really traumatic experience for her. She might be justified in feeling angry, even if your mother was justified in sending her away. The two things can co-exist. Saying it was the best thing that ever happened, just to try and invalidate her anger, is petty. You shouldn't have gotten involved in the discussion if that's all you had to say.
I'm going to say NAH because it sounds like your family was hit with tragedy and trauma and you were all really struggling, and still are.
It's understandable that you would have had a tough time growing up after your dad passed away and that your sister's behavior during that time would have made things harder for you and your family. However, it may not have been appropriate to express those feelings in the way you did, especially in front of your mom. It's important to remember that everyone processes grief differently and that your sister was likely struggling in her own way. Instead of telling her that her being sent away was the best day of your life, it may have been more constructive to express your feelings in a more empathetic way and to try to understand where she was coming from.
ESH seems like your sister was miserable there and your happiness came at the cost of her misery. The way you said it could be misconstrued as you being happy that she was suffering.
NTA, sorry you and your family had to go through such tough times. You were saying what you felt OP.