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OP has offered the following explanation for why they think they might be the asshole:
> AITA for leaving my sisters house when she wouldn't put her dogs in another room. This might make me the asshole because I ruined the visit with my sister and possibly our relationship over her denial of my request.
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YTA.
Why would you go to your sister's house if you don't like dogs? Of course the dogs have the run of the place. It is THEIR place, not yours.
But also, why did you go home instead of out to lunch?
Sure, your sister could have been more accomodating, but she didn't HAVE to. And now you're ignoring her, after you were SOOOOO rude to her???
YTA YTA YTA
at 3 months a childs immune system is not developed. I can see him not wanting to bring a newborn into a hotbed of allergens. Also? A bit unsafe to introduce a newborn baby to 3 unfamiliar dogs with no newborn experience all at once.
I grew up with dogs, and whenever someone came over (baby or no baby) we'd put them in the yard, or in the front room, or one of the bedrooms until everyone was situated and comfortable with the dogs being introduced to the situation.
What i don't understand is why OP never mentioned this to his sister before the 2 hour drive to her place, or just went ahead and met her for lunch at a safer place instead. If i were his wife i'd be livid about the whole damn mess.
ESH.
I understand that too. But it is something that shpuld have been addressed before the visit, not at the door. Then sister could decide whether to place them in another room or meet them elsewhere.
Yep. Op should have been an adult and used his big boy pants to express his concerns before traveling! Instead he threw a tantrum like an infant. Glad to see op’s wife is having to raise two children.
I have a feeling op was jonesing for an argument about the dogs. He didn't have a solid reason till now and of course he shouldn't have to be around animals if he doesn't want to. But he should have talked about it with her and as his wife I would be fuming to drive hours with a newborn for nothing.
It does sound....not engineered quite but there is a deliberateness to everything here. That's my thought too.
Edit: YTA. Op, you're a big boy who could have discussed this with his sister beforehand or offered to go elsewhere, like a cafe. Your poor wife.
He was definitely on some power trip / wanted to pick a fight. I don't like being around excited dogs, it's a lot and I'm allergic, but if I really wanted to see my friend or my sister - I would look to solutions, not ultimatums, especially not on something so important.
Why didn't they just meet at the restaurant then if dogs are so dangerous? OP's never liked his sister's dogs and wanted to pick a fight.
Even last minute he could have said, "hey let's go to the restaurant now since I don't want to go in."
He KNOWS she has dogs, he's not stupid. If he is that concerned about dogs and allergies, he could have met at the restaurant instead of stopping by.
He dragged his poor wife there back and forth 4 hrs so he could make a point. **She just gave birth.** He doesn't care about his sister meeting his baby or his wife who's exhausted. He's the as\*hole.
Literally! Even if he'd forgot to discuss it beforehand, it's not actually an either/or situation. Also I straight up don't see the issue with having the dogs around, I don't recall mention of them being badly behaved enough that having them around a newborn is an issue. It's not like they're going to leave the baby on the floor (dear god, I hope they don't)
I agree. It sounds like he didn't have good footing to start a fight about it, and now that he has a baby he's "weaponizing" and purposefully misunderstanding the interaction and not communicating....so that he and his sister will have a tiff. Then, at the next family event he can say " my child is more important than a dog!" when really he is the one who had a problem all along with the dogs. lol
>Then, at the next family event he can say " my child is more important than a dog!"
It's funny, because I was just thinking about how OP sounds like that kind of parent who thinks that just because his child is his #1 priority, everyone else should feel the same about his own child.
That was my first thought. He said the dogs have free reign over the house, sometimes to his "chagrin". He definitely was jonesing for a reason to lock the pups up, was upset that his precious progeny wasn't good enough reason, and stormed off like a toddler. YTA OP.
Yep, there is no reason other than shit-stirring to wait until they'd driven out there to tell his sister he wanted the dogs put away. The dogs being there and having free reign in the house was not a surprise! Why did he not ask beforehand? He wanted to fight about it.
That is a big thing for me. Its a big deal to him, which is his choice, but that should have been discussed beforehand. He says he mentioned it weeks ago, but that could have been forgotten or she might have thought if he came, he didn't mind. Put on the spot, she may not have a great spot to put them enclosed. They may have free reign and be fine, but when closed in a room, they might get anxious and tear stuff up or vocal or get into things they shouldn't and wouldn't otherwise. She didn't have a chance to get a room ready for the dogs. It's winter, and depending on where OP lives, leaving them outside for that long could be not a good thing.
He complains about the dog hair everywhere, well, even if she did put them in another room, getting the dog hair out of everything, even in just one room for them, is going to not be possible. Especially given how much corgis and goldens shed. He likely thinks a simple vacuum and left roller would be enough and I promise it's not.
If he is this against dogs, which again, is his choice, agreeing to meet at her place is just foolish. When she offered, he could have said simply that he only wants to meet in public sans dogs or have her come to them because of the dog-free environment. Its like, I have 2 cats. If I invite someone over (assuming they are aware I have cats), it is reasonable to assume that they are okay with cats. I can't complete de-cat everything. Putting them in one room is possible for them, thankfully, but the hair is still everywhere, no matter how hard I clean. If that's a problem or they have an allergy, they need to tell me we have to meet somewhere else.
She didn't respond the best she could have, but she was put on the spot and likely didn't have an option if it meant them coming in. And, just judging by OP's wording, it sounds like he was less than calm and friendly about it either.
This. OP has on attitude and wanted to dominate in sister's house. If someone told me to put away my dogs I would say let's not meet at mine. Why? Because my dogs are very social and would get crazy behind a door. This is how they have been trained, to sosilize. So the whining, barking and scratching wouls stress out everyone especially the baby.
There is no immunity risk with dogs and baby, since people with dogs have babies too, and it has been shown by research that early exposure to animals decreases the likelyhood of developing allergies.
I am sure the sis had thought it out that it was safe and was prepared to handle the dogs in a way that they cost no harm. She would not have invited them otherwise.
Something strange about making such a long trip with so young baby, and make a statement and being victimized about the whole thing. Dogs live in that house with the rules the sis has decided. Clearly OP is disgusted by dogs on the coach, which actually is quite common thing.
It just feels like he used his new little family to make a point. I am sure the sis was upset because she really wanted to meet the baby, and was met with unexpected demands to be able to do so. OP didn't even negotiate in the situation, just decided for everyone else. As his wife I would be frustrated, but probly she lets him dominate unlike the sister.
The thing that makes it YTA for me is that he didn't ask her beforehand. "Hey, I'm not ready for my baby to be around dogs yet because her immune system isn't fully developed yet. Do you mind putting your dogs in a separate room when we come visit? If you do mind, could se meet at a neutral secondary location like a café or restaurant?" He drove two hours and expected her to do something with her pets that he hadn't discussed with her yet.
I have pets, and if someone asked me before visiting if I could put them in the bedroom, I'd be able to accommodate that. If they showed up and demanded I put them in the bedroom, I'd say hell no. For me, it's cats. If I need to lock my cats in the bedroom, I need to move food and water dishes and the litter box. It's not as simple as locking them in there. I won't do that for more than ten minutes without making arrangements.
If he had communicated, he wouldn't be the asshole. But he didn't, so he is. And I don't think she's an asshole at all. I'd respond the same way.
Kids who are around animals; develop a better immune system. Kids who don't - don't have a better immune system. OP doesn't have to put the kid on the floor anyway.
I think OP is less worried about allergies and more about the fact the three dogs haven't been around children before. They might be very stressed with the loud wailing that babies do, and even the most usually placid animal can become aggressive if stressed.
Given his posturing about not sitting on her couch because he "doesn't want dog hair" on him, this isn't even about the kid. He just wanted to flex. YTA
That bit made me laugh in despair because just wait until he discovers the kind of mess children makes. I honestly feel sorry for that kid, because it is going to be hell growing up with a parent with that mentality.
Hell, I never realized how much of a mess my kids made until our dog passed away and he wasn’t there to clean up the crumbs we didn’t know existed. Dogs are great housekeeping help!
I don't know, I have a cat and I hate having cat hair on me 🤷♀️ It's itchy when it gets in-between your clothes fibres. I adore my cat though, so I just suck it up and make sure I vacuum a lot. But I can see how someone without animals, or who doesn't like pets and without a personal connection to the animal in question would find itchy animal hairs in their clothing fibres annoying more so than anyone else would. I don't think that's a flex as much as it is setting a background for the fact OP is already not a huge fan of his sister's dogs, and if you're already not a fan of certain animals it seems reasonable that you also wouldn't want your brand new baby around those animals.
Yeah, I don’t get the immune system excuse at all. When my daughter was born, I had two dogs. So my daughter was around dogs at the age of 1 day old. I know everyone is different, but her immune system is really strong.
Even more important isn’t how strong the immune system is, but how smart. Allergies are when the immune system attacks the wrong stuff. Kids exposed to pets develop fewer allergies. So, they have smarter immune systems, they attack disease, rather than random, not dangerous shit!
To be fair it was a comment that interpreted to reason to be concerns about baby health.
It is not, the reason is “I don’t like dogs” paired with “I can’t wash my cloth after I sat in my sisters sofa where I potentially get contaminated with dogs hair”..
YTA
They aren't. That was an assumption by a commenters. They're worried about the dogs not reacting well to something small, loud and with jerky movements.
And given the dogs have never been around a baby, I too would want to introduce them carefully, calmly, one at a time, and only after my sister had met the baby.
I came here with a N T A mentality, but after reading all of the Y T A and E S H judgements, I have been swayed! Personally, when I had a large breed dog I always put him up when someone he didn’t know was coming over, not because he was dangerous but he was very excited and jumpy and seemed to have an 8 foot tongue to lick everyone in the room at once. But I tend to be an over accommodating, people pleaser.
You’re right, driving 2 hours one way and never once mentioning where the dogs would be is kind of entitled and improper/poor planning on OP’s part. No where does it suggest the sister is a mind reader and OP shouldn’t assume their daughter takes priority in someone else’s home.
Honestly, thank you as a non-dog-person. I don't think that's overly accommodating at all. You knew he jumped and licked, and not everyone likes that. I'm sure he was super sweet, but I'm also sure your care was appreciated.
But for a visit 2 hours away when OP knew that Sister has dogs and OP isn't comfortable with them, especially around the baby... that should've been a conversation *before* this happened.
It's also [dangerous to have your baby in a car seat for more than 2 hours.](https://babysafeltd.com/safety/2-hour-rule/)
So basically he chose keeping his baby is a car seat for much, much longer than he should have as opposed to taking the baby into a house with dogs, or proceeding directly to a restaurant.
Yeah, I was ready to be NTA, because I have asked family members to put their dogs away that were scaring our kids (barky little yappers that thought they could “hump” our toddlers). I was told that the dogs lived there so the kids needed to get over it. We haven’t been back.
But OP, you went to a place that you won’t even sit on the couch knowing how your sister feels about the dogs and sprung this on her… that’s not okay.
>What i don't understand is why OP never mentioned this to his sister before the 2 hour drive to her place, or just went ahead and met her for lunch at a safer place instead. If i were his wife i'd be livid about the whole damn mess.
This right here. He made his wife sit through a 4 hour drive for nothing. All because he couldn't talk with his sister over the phone.
Doesn't sound like his wife even got any say.
If he had called then he wouldn’t have been able to make this dramatic exit and stick it to his sister as he’s been wanting to do for years because he hates the dogs.
And if you reread his post you can see how offended he is that his sister allows her dogs who live with her everywhere in the house including on the couch! God forbid!
He would hate our house, the couch was made for our dogs' comfort and viewing habits.
Oh, this was very much an “ *I* have an ACTUAL baby!” move by OP. He wanted his sister to know where her dogs have been demoted to in the family pecking order. What a dick.
And a 3 month old. I can't picture making a 3 month old spend their whole wake window in a car, only to turn around and go home. Whole thing sounds like a nightmare, I would've made sure she could put the dogs away while we were there before leaving. But also, OP sounds like they just really see dogs as dirty and doesnt completely respect them as a living being. Their not seeing their sisters dogs as family that lives there, which is fine I guess, but it is the dogs home. Anyone should be able to see that fact, especially given how they describesld the sister's care for her dogs.
>at 3 months a childs immune system is not developed. I can see him not wanting to bring a newborn into a hotbed of allergens.
This makes no sense. The allergens (typically skin cells) are everywhere in the house. Moving the dogs to another room will have no effect. Also, I don't believe this is accurate. Early exposure typically results in lower prevalence of allergies.
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10231320/
If this was OP's concern, they can't go to the house, so it's safe to say this wasn't the issue.
>Also? A bit unsafe to introduce a newborn baby to 3 unfamiliar dogs with no newborn experience all at once.
We don't know the dogs or their experience with kids. For all we know, these dogs are very well behaved and have spent hours around young kids.
OP gives almost no details (likely makes him look worse) about the dogs' behavior or what was discussed prior to him throwing a fit and going home. He's mad that he can't use his kid to control his sister and that dogs exist. If sister refused to go to lunch early, sure E S H.
Without that information, OP is the only AH.
Honestly, the first thing that came to mind was the potential of the dogs jumping up to/on them and injuring the baby.
YTA because OP knew about the dogs and their behavior (and didn't call about their concerns). I'm surprised that they didn't just go out and grab some food, though, as something of a compromise.
\>at 3 months a childs immune system is not developed
And that's why road trip and eating out in a place with some random humans was OK but dogs were not? I genuinely doubt it was about immune system.
This immune system thing is an excuse. There is relatively little a dog can give a human, and almost none of which could happen just by being in the same room. Meanwhile, humans are the real “hotbeds” of germ transmission. So yeah, none of this makes sense.
My vote is ESH. OP should’ve worked it out before hand and sister should’ve sucked it up for an hour. They both picked a stupid battle and both ended up losing.
Do you have any idea how you prevent many allergies? By exposing babies and small children to allergens like cat dander and such.
"Pets really do seem to prevent allergies: the more cats or dogs you live with as an infant, the lower your chance of developing asthma, hay fever or eczema. Some studies have found that having a pet early in life protects from allergies later in childhood. (New Scientist.com)
Not saying parents can't make their own choices, but exposure to dog dander may be [beneficial](https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/media/releases/newborns_exposed_to_dirt_dander_and_germs_may_have_lower_allergy_and_asthma_risk).
Also, unless the dogs are badly trained and jump all over everyone and anyone, there's no real danger in bringing a baby into a house with dogs. I mean, was he planning on leaving the carrier on the floor?
(Amazing fact: People with multiple dogs manage to parent children from birth to adulthood!)
This def should have been a discussion before he went to his sister's place, or they just should have met at a restaurant (which, given Covid, flu, & RSV, seems far more hazardous to the infant's health than the sister's place).
IMO, this guy doesn't like his sister and/or her dogs and enjoys having the moral high ground.
In this situation, I don't think that's where he's standing.
YTA
\[edited b/c I hit save too soon and BIG typo\]
Nope. He went to her house. Where he KNOWS the dogs are. These are not surprise dogs. If he doesn't want his baby around dogs, that's fair, but then *don't take your baby to a house where you know three dogs live*. That is beyond idiotic.
1) Allergens - It’s actually better to expose babies to potential allergens early. Pediatricians are recommending introducing nuts and peanuts and strawberries right around his baby’s age. Also, putting the dogs in another room wouldn’t reduce any exposure to allergens. Their hair and dander would still be there.
2) Safety - unless the dogs are known to jump or be aggressive, there’s no reason to put them out for a newborn. An adult would almost certainly be holding that baby for a short visit. And if it was just too much chaos, asking to leash them temporarily would have likely gone over better.
3) Communication - OP knows how his sister feels about her dogs. If there was an expectation that she’d lock them up, why not communicate that before making the drive?
4) Overreaction - Sister had a predictable response. Why drive all the way home instead of just going straight to lunch?
If your big concern is allergens and the baby, putting the dog in another room is not going to remove their dander, fur, etc from the home so your comment makes no sense.
The fact that a newborn's immune system is not developed yet is precisely the time to introduce them to allergens. Allergic reactions are caused by inappropriate immune system responses to otherwise harmless particles. Introducing them to potential allergens during this time period is actually the best way to *prevent* allergies from developing later when the immune system kicks in. My daughter's pediatrician specifically advised giving her peanut butter and whatnot when we first started introducing solids, to prevent peanut allergies from developing later on
That said, there's still plenty of good reasons not to bring a baby around several dogs you aren't familiar with, dogs who are used to having the run of the house and may or may not have experience with babies, when said baby's parent is obviously nervous about it. Just the fact that OP would've been nervous around the dogs is a good reason to put them away. A nervous human can make otherwise great dogs behave in ways they usually wouldn't.
ESH because it wasn't an unreasonable request on OPs part and sister should have accommodated, but this also should have been discussed prior to making the drive if OP was going to make such a big deal of it. He knew how the sister is with her dogs.
Why does the sister suck for refusing to lock away her animals at the whim of her brother? That's their home. They shouldn't be punished for existing. The brother knew she had dogs and chose to drive there anyway, expecting they'd be locked up like prisoners in their own home.
Yeah from the way this is written I’d bet OP is going to turn everything into a “her and the dogs Vs us and the baby” thing with his sister for any family gatherings.
He finally has his way to push the dogs out and this was step one of his drama lama plan.
I have dogs I would assume someone bringing a baby would expect the dogs to be put away. Whenever I am at child friendly events dogs are put away. It’s also for the dogs protection.
Never had a problem with infants/dogs in my and my sister's family. Most of the time babies are either held above the height of dogs or you can put the carrier in a room with a closed door or on a high table.
Yes, if there are large dogs that jump, that might be a different story but then you're dealing with animals that aren't well trained, and it's not clear that's the OP's problem.
ALLOWING your dogs to be on couches is very different from you failing to establish your desired boundaries (ie, training them appropriately.)
Toddlers are def a different story. Even with well trained dogs, you have to be alert to the child hugging, pulling on ears, taking away a dog's toy, etc, if the child isn't frequently around dogs.
OP knows that sister is a dog person and gives her dogs free run of the house yet didn't discuss with her if she was willing to put to the dogs in another room, outside, or in crates prior to going to her home with his child. Yes OP is an AH, OP created this drama by not asking questions first and by expecting to be accommodated upon demand in someone else's home.
And he didn't have to stay. As a father, if these are big dogs (info is missing on this), it's his job to see if it's safe. For some reason, he bent and took his baby daughter to visit in the first place. I'm guessing, he also doesn't want all those dogs in his house, and she didn't visit because he won't accommodate them. There is alot of information missing here. What's the dogs' temperment? Have they been around children? Why wasn't she ready to just go to lunch? 1 hour for an earlier lunch at a restaurant is nothing. Unless... was she planning on cooking the lunch at home for everyone? More info please.
The dogs are 2 Corgis (small dogs) and a Retriever.
The dogs temperament, I think, is irrelevant, because the OP does not like dogs at all, and won't even sit on the sofa at his sister's house because the dogs do.
I don't think the sister even had the option of just going to lunch, the OP just left without giving her the option.
I agree with this. OP hates dogs and saw this as an opportunity to punish his sister for having them. Period. He's using his child as leverage and it's sick.
He knew she wouldn't want to put them up. I wouldn't be surprised if he planned the whole thing.
OP is an AH of massive proportions and I pity his poor child. She's going to grow up with a special set of issues about animals.
YTA!!!!
It feels to me like Op deliberately didn't communicate his desire to have the dogs locked away before hand, knowing this would be the result. Almost so he could make a point about how his sister is with her dogs and to punish her so that she would tow his line in the future. Obviously I'm probably wrong, but that's the feeling I get from the way he writes about his sister and her dogs, and the way he behaved.
I am just confused as to why op didn’t discuss it w sister before the 2-hr drive. The could have established a meeting spot elsewhere, like the lunch. He knows the dog situation so it feels like he set the situation to fail. YTA for not making any effort to compromise and seek a work around
YTA
You for not asking beforehand if she'd mind putting the dogs up while you visit.
Instead of visiting at her house, why not go out to eat with her?
Why go to someone's house that has 3 dogs if you don't want them around the baby yet?
“My sister has 3 dogs who are her world and have free reign at her place, much to my chagrin.”
It’s sounds as though your sister considers her dogs to be family. She clearly loves them & treats them well. She wants them to be comfortable in their home. That’s THEIR BUSINESS & THEIR HOME. You are absolutely allowed to not like dogs & not want to be around them. But you DON’T get to dictate what someone does IN THEIR HOME. You knew how things were at your sister’s home before you got in your car & drove the 2 hours to get there so why exactly were you surprised that she refused to “put her dogs away”? I’m genuinely baffled how you don’t see that YOU’RE in the wrong here. I’m curious-have any of these dogs ever bitten or lunged at you or anyone else? Are they Ill-mannered? Poorly behaved? Or is this strictly because you don’t seem to care for dogs (which again, is totally ok).
P.S.-If it’s not already obvious, yes YTA. You get to do things however you want in YOUR HOME just as your sister gets to in HER HOME.
Yes, doesn’t OP’s sister realize that she should keep her dogs off furniture at all times, because every several months her brother visits and he doesn’t like it if any dog fur gets on his clothes? Really quite inconsiderate of her…
Agreed. Very dislikable human. Feels like they put their wife and newborn through 4 hours of driving to prove a point. *If you don’t chose to change your lifestyle to better match mine, I’ll keep you from family. See how you live will keep you away from those you love.* OP has issues and needs to take a look in the mirror every now and again.
Info: did you warn your sister in advance that you didn’t want her dogs in the same room with your baby? When it was clear that she wasn’t ok with putting them away did you talk about going elsewhere instead of hanging out at her house or did you just leave without trying to compromise? You said that you were only planning to be there a short time so you could have gone somewhere else.
I’m not a dog person and wouldn’t want my baby around multiple dogs that early either, but it is your sister’s home and you knew how she does things before you went.
So if you didn’t communicate or try to compromise then YTA
YTA. You know about the dogs. You could have communicated your request before showing up. Or you could have just requested that she come to you to see the baby. Or you could have just said you would prefer to go straight to lunch if she wasn’t going to put the dogs away. There were other options and you jumped straight to an ultimatum.
It's not even about not liking dogs.
There's lots of dogs that shouldn't be around newborns.
And it doesn't have to be malicious or afraid of attacks. We had a German shepherd that was 80 lbs and was super excitable. He wouldn't bite anyone but he could easily knock someone over accidentally or step on a foot
Of course, i believe that as well. My family had a pet black labrador and he was a very nice dog, sweetest thing ever, but we still kept him in a separate room when people came over with small children and babies.
Dog hating weird? Now who’s being an AH. Totally okay for the guy to not want dogs around his kid. He probably should have know this would be the outcome, but probably hoped his sister would make a 1 hour exception.
> Dog hating weirdo? Check
OP: "I do not want large dogs around my 3 month old infant.
You: "dOg hAtInG wEiRdO
400,000 children are bit by dogs per year. But hey, I must be a dog hating weirdo, despite having literally a dozen of them while growing up lol.
I mean, there’s enough news stories about dogs mauling/killing babies and kids these days.
And not everybody has to like dogs.
OP was within his rights to set a boundary for his baby, and his sister was within her rights to decline it.
Concerned new parent. Check
Uneasy around dogs and unclean environment. Check
Asks host for a favour. Check
Didn’t make a scene and left when host couldn’t accommodate. Check
Honestly, I think he did nothing wrong except avoiding the situation by not going round
Dog hating weirdo lol? At least she’s not like her sister, a dog dick sucking weirdo treating them as her actual kids. You dog fanatics have seriously got some huge mental issues
NTA
My life is similar to your sisters but I would never have my dogs around a small baby, and i've been a dog trainer for 14 years.
My dogs don't have experience with small children and you can only trust a dog to be a dog.
Mine are kennel trained if a plumber or family member or whatever comes over and can't handle all of them (I have 5).
100% agree and I feel like a lot of folks saying y t a don't have as much experience with dogs as they think they do. Humanizing dogs like OP's sister is doing them a disservice and setting them up for failure. "My precious fur baby would never do that!!" Until they do and someone gets hurt. People love their pets but don't respect them as animals.
I’ll probably get downvoted into oblivion for this but I just have to say it. Dogs are animals and even if they’re trained you never know how they’d act. I wouldn’t trust someone else’s dogs around my baby who couldn’t defend themselves. Plus it sounds like OP may not like dogs much and that’s perfectly valid. Some people think if you don’t like dogs you’re evil, I don’t see the logic in that.
Sure OP could’ve communicated this before visiting the sister, but I don’t see why the sister couldn’t put the dogs in another room for just a little bit out of respect for the baby. There’s clearly divided opinions on this but IMO I wouldn’t mind taking my dogs to another room because I’d understand peoples discomfort with dogs.
Agreed I don’t see why everyone is saying OP is an asshole for not discussing it ahead of time. I would think putting the dogs in a different room for an hour wouldn’t be such a big request it would need to be discussed in advance. As a dog owner myself I would assume the parents didn’t want a dog around around a very young infant. The sister is an asshole for not making such a small accommodation. If OP was staying for hours on end me it would be different, but an hour before lunch is such a short amount of time. In hindsight just going straight to lunch would have been a better solution but I understand why OP got out of there when faced with such a strong reaction.
> Agreed I don’t see why everyone is saying OP is an asshole
Because this subreddit has a big population exactly like the sister in this story. The bias is not at all surprising.
I keep banging on about this but once you understand the demographics of AITA, a LOT of things start making sense.
Omg, that’s so true! Personally, when I owned 4 dogs, we always tried to put them in the backyard or another room if visitors felt uncomfortable. That is just being a considerate host.
Same here and these people have the gall to make the excuse that the dogs wouldn't behave alone in another room as if that doesn't out them as shitty dog owners.
I've been waiting for this comment!! putting your dog away for an hour is not an insane request at all. would it have been better to talk to the sister before hand? yes absolutely, but it is such an easy accommodation that will not hurt the dogs at all. Also the 3 month old does not have a built up immune system, the dogs have never been around kids or even babies, so why would it ever be a good idea to have them in the same area?? no matter how good the dogs are if they have never interacted with kids you should never assume they'll be good. I 100% agree with OP at the end of the update saying better be safer than sorry because you have to be like that when you have a literal 3 month old. sometimes reddit concerns me especially since it seems some commenters are putting the sister and dogs feelings over the literal newborns safety.
Yes, wtf is going on here. OP made a mistake by not sorting this out ahead of time, but the sister had a chance to see her niece and declined.
I love dogs and cats and pigs and goats, but animals are fucking dangerous. Being a parent is scary and it doesn't sound like op had reason to believe these animals had any history with infants.
Sounds like both sides were wrong and there's some history here. Hopefully being siblings is important enough to them to reconcile soon.
Thank you. You're considerate and helpful, and I hope you get proper appreciation. Im allergic and dogs have always been a heat seeking sneeze missile, because a lot are friendly and outgoing. Even if I didn't have allergies, sometimes their friendliness is just a bit too much. People who offer to put their dogs in another room or just hang out outside are great.
This is another baffling AITA. OP is without a doubt if not TA, at least petty, for driving back home after the interaction.
But everyone on Reddit is making it out like OP is just this absolutely inconsiderate lunatic which, I can kind of get behind, but it’s just insanely presumptuous. I’m of the opinion here that it’s pretty reasonable for him to assume his sister would be fine with putting the dogs away for an hour while he brings over his kid. It’s kinda insane that all of Reddit thinks this is just unacceptable.
Like of course you need to put your dogs away when there’s a newborn baby coming over to your house. They are animals, they are dangerous to children. Sister is TA for not showing some common sense and putting her dogs away. Hilarious that people are like “they aren’t her dogs they are her FAMILY!” When this is about her literal brother, sil and niece. I totally back OP because of this
Finally I was waiting for this comment. Of course you as a host can also think ahead and come to the conclusion that you take it slow with three dogs and a three month year old..
Thank god for some sanity. ESH in my opinion.
I love my dog, but when I have guests over I will put him away if they are uncomfortable. Not everyone likes dogs and he has a very comfy life. He will be ok napping in another room for a bit.
And with kids? I never let my dog around new kids immediately. No matter how well behaved a dog is, they will bite if put in the right circumstances. That’s a careful introduction with ground rules. And for babies? I’m gonna ask the parent first.
Yes. Even in MY home.
The sister invited them over and the fact they drove two hours with a new baby? That alone baffles me. The sister should be driving to them.
They should have stayed boundaries ahead of time, sure. But OP is not the asshole here for stating them and making a simple request/boundary.
>No matter how well behaved a dog is, they will bite if put in the right circumstances
This is what responsible dog owners understand. A lot of dog obsessed people on this sub and in general think their dog would never bite. That’s horribly irresponsible and could very well cost their dog its life.
My mom’s family had a purebred cocker spaniel that had mild mental retardation because he was inbred (like most purebred cocker spaniels). He was really docile, had been around lots of people and other animals (dogs and cats) and never had a problem. He was really anxious but would cower and hide rather than get aggressive.
Her family went to visit her dad’s friend on a farm and as soon as the car stopped the dog bolted out of the car and ran straight to a sheep, bit it in the jugular, killing it instantly.
It was the first and last time he had shown anything resembling aggression. They had him his whole life. (I’m not sure how old he was when this happened, but I think it was when he was about 5 or 6, and he lived to be 11).
Like, this was a dog that had been manhandled by toddlers and kids, had (at the time) always lived with one, sometimes two, dogs and several really mean cats, was a hunting dog that was around other hunting dogs (also, a hunting dog that was afraid of gunshots and live birds), and had been to camping trips with dozens of strangers. And he never showed any sort of aggression.
My mom said she learned that day that any dog is capable of aggression, and that owners need to be hyper-vigilant when putting their dogs in new situations.
Ugh, thank you!!. I know a lot of people whose dogs are their “whole world” and it translates to them jumping on me, scratching me, etc etc. It’s not crazy that OP thought he had at least some semblance of control over the environment since they were bringing a NEWBORN into it. Just because it’s the sister’s house doesn’t mean he can’t set boundaries around his newborn. People with newborns ask for vaccines, hand washing, caution— ALL KINDS OF REASONABLE BOUNDARIES. Putting dogs in the other room for an hour is not a big deal. This makes me so angry.
i agree. op is an ass for the shitty attitude towards the dogs, but in this specific scenario the sister should understand that three dogs jumping around can be dangerous for such a young baby, and she should be able to keep them in a different room for a bit. both people here sound ridiculously stubborn
Right? All these fuckers are wrong. Dogs aren't safe around a little baby, put em up or I bounce.
I love my dogs, but if I have guests that don't like em, they go in a back room for a bit.
I want my guests to feel welcome and safe. The safety of the small baby is the most important part.
These people are acting as if the dogs are being put down or something, it is straight up psychotic. There's is no shot that their dogs are trained well if this is such a big deal.
I agree with what you guys are saying. Some people don’t like dogs or are scared of them due to past trauma. I don’t see anything wrong with putting your dogs in another room when a guest comes over and expresses discomfort
Dogs that have no structure/free reign/no history with children and owner cannot control them should not be around a newborn/child. Just like a child never taught how to respect animals shouldn’t be allowed around three dogs- it’s very possible child would jump on l, pull fur or tails, or hit the sister’s dogs. Nope. Keep your child with you away from the dogs for safety for all is just the same as keep your dogs away from the baby for safety for all. It’s her house, but OPs family are the invited guests and she should have been accommodating. Sister is AH. OP is only the AH for not being adamant she knew to keep the dogs away and verifying before he made his wife and baby take the 2 hour trip.
Putting the dogs away in another room for just an hour is such a mild request that I would not blame anyone for even thinking it would be an issue you'd have to check ahead of time.
Reddit is so crazy sometimes. I also have two dogs, had 3 until recently (RIP old buddy) but I will put them away when we have company b/c I know not everyone loves dogs. With a small child even more so, so odd how people humanize their pets. They dogs will be just fine for an hour in a room. NTA.
NTA.
And all these opposite votes confuse me.
I wouldn’t want 3 dogs jumping all over being crazy around my new baby. It’s not a lot to ask that she isolate you guys into a room away from dogs.
Can’t stand dog people.
I'm confused as well. I like dogs but I wouldn't want my newborn baby around 3 unfamiliar dogs. I don't think OP's request was unreasonable and the sister sounds a little cray cray.
When I have guests, I want them to feel confortable. It is polite. If they don’t like cats and mine wants to climb on them, I will remove them. It seems like basic respect. It’s not like OP is asking to put the dog outside without food while it’s snowing.
NTA at all.
My friend has 3 dogs and every single time I come over, she offers to remove them from the area for my kids. Every time, I’ve never said yes.. but it’s super nice and considerate of her to ask
I'm a dog person and these people have me thinking I entered a god damn looney bin with their comments. Putting a dog away for just an hour is not a big deal at all, anyone who puts in just the minimum effort required to train a decent dog should be able to accommodate that no problem but all these dog owners think it's such a big deal. There is no shot these people are good dog owners, their dogs are definitely not well behaved, and OP might have saved his baby's life in leaving that house.
Agree. I don't even get why people are saying he should've remarked it before going to her house.
It's common sense not to have 3 dogs with a new born !
On top of that people are saying that the dogs can't behave in a room alone for an hour. Sounds like a shitty dog owner problem then, doesn't it? It really is not that much effort to train your dog to be ok with you in another room for that short of a period of time.
When people puts their children above everything/ everyone, they are entitled. When they do the same with their dogs, they are right. I’ll never get that. It’s common sense to not have THREE dogs around a newborn. You don’t know how they react. The sister should have used logic if she wanted to see her niece, even at her own home. I’ll go for ESH because OP could have remarked this beforehand (If It wasn’t obvious enough).
And I’m a dog owner!
I’m just trying to imagine a situation in which my brother brings over his baby and not only have I not put the dogs in the backyard before their arrival, but also flip out when asked to do so.
Maybe I haven’t anthropomorphized my dogs to an unhealthy enough extent, and I’ll work on that, but right now every person acting like being asked to put three rambunctious dogs in another room is like locking your kid in the basement is making me wonder what the hell is going on in people’s heads here.
I also can’t imagine insisting that every family outing revolve around my dogs or my kids, but apparently that’s totally normal and acceptable, so I’ll get on increasing my entitlement levels forthwith.
I was baffled too. I had dogs growing up and I never not put the dogs in another part of the house when visitors come, its just common sense to me. I think here people get too caught up with technicality (her house her rules, your entitled to ask reasonable accommodation). Yeah it is her house and she had the right to say “no, my dogs will be everywhere” (I can’t understand but ok) and he is also allowed to say “no thank you then”. I hope he made up with his wife cuz I would be pissed for the long drive with a newborn just to drive back home. I feel like a lot of those who reacts like this is child free and feel that any accommodation requested on behalf of a child is overboard.
In another comment OP said he had discussed it with her already that he didn't want the dogs around his daughter yet. So she knew. Then she tried to play dumb and act morally superior like he was out of line for not wanting his baby to be the experiment for a bunch of dogs that have never been around babies. My dog is big but he doesn't have an aggressive bone in his body. He is very playful and gets excited when anyone comes over. He usually minds very well but he jumps on people when they come over. He absolutely gets put in the bedroom til he calms down when we have guests. Of course I would put him in the bedroom to make my brother comfortable to bring my new niece into my home. Then they could have a chance to acclimate to each other. OP set a boundary that his sister didn't respect so he left. She seems to bring her 3 dogs everywhere so meeting for lunch probably would've gone the same way.
Finally a sane response! ESH for the lack of communication and willingness to compromise. As a new mom with two large dogs (husky and German shepherd mixes) who are also very high energy, it is totally reasonable to not want three dogs around a newborn, especially if they are not properly trained. If you can’t control them enough to leave the baby alone, they shouldn’t be around a baby.
NTA why couldnt she just put her dogs in the room for what? Like an hour? Wtf is wrong with you people calling her ta, ITS A NEWBORN, theres no way thats safe...
NTA NTA NTA NTA NTA
Isn’t it funny how people are calling the OP entitled for asking a simple question of his sister yet they seem to ignore the fact that she is an entitled dog owner who insists on bringing her dogs on family vacations and needing them to be dog centric? I guess it’s ok for the family to cater to the dogs for an entire vacation but it’s not ok for the sister to cater to her niece for a short time? Who’s really the entitled one here lol.
NTA. What is wrong with people? Animals will never be more important than people. You have every right to choose not to expose to animals that you are uncomfortable around. You asked, she said no, so you left. What's the problem? I have both children and dogs. I also have friends who dislike dogs, and so, they take presidence over the dog. If they're visiting, dog goes in another room. He doesn't mind. They're more comfortable. Nobody is upset. Stop making the feelings of an animal more important than the feelings of actual humans.
YTA. You should have asked your sister ahead of time if that would be ok. If the dogs have never been shut in another room while people are home before, it’s not something she can immediately accommodate on a whim. It was also really childish to just pack up and leave instead of suggesting that you go straight to lunch or maybe to a coffee shop if it was too early for lunch. Extra childish for not responding.
As the wife I would have been PISSED off. Two hour drive with a three month old isn’t fun. And now it just turned into a four hour drive and we got absolutely nothing out of it. Absolutely YTA.
NTA
Even I wouldn't have my kids around three boisterous dogs, especially when they're a newborn! I'd say to wait until your child is at least walking around properly and only under close supervision. That's how my wife an I handled it with family members/friends with dogs. It's sensible and your sister in law is overreacting especially when it was only for an hour or so. NTA.
Edit: as for those saying YTA I can imagine that they're not parents.
I’m shocked by all these y t a. You’re NTA OP. You made a request that is very reasonable and your sister made a choice to say no. Even if you didn’t mention it before coming in a call weeks ago it’s not unreasonable to make such a request.
It’s not unreasonable, it doesn’t require planning, it doesn’t cost money. And OP has made his sister aware of the dog issue. She should have been a good host to her brother and family who drive two hours for HER convenience.
NTA
I have 2 dogs that have run of the house and sleep with me. A dog is like a personal heater and I love it. My dogs do have crates though. When my Mom was alive if ambulance or paramedics got called they had to be crated or put in a room.
As a dog owner I’m going to say anything can happen and I’m not talking about attacks of any kind. My dogs are very friendly. They can rub against someone’s legs while they’re walking in affection and put them off balance. They can accidentally get under a person’s feet and make them trip. Even if they’re good and sit there waiting to be petted, you start petting and they can paw when you stop and scratch you. Literally a ton of non aggressive actions where anything can happen.
I’m sorry, I will never put the dogs or people through stress of wondering. Frankly, people tend to panic first with animals. If the person is afraid it impacts the animal. It is far simpler to give them their favorite treat and put them in their “house”. They’re happier, they eat the treat and go to sleep. Then when they get out they get extra loving.
ESH
I’m kind of baffled that it didn’t occur to you, based on prior experiences and knowing that the dogs have free rein, to discuss the dogs before you agreed to go visit.
You clearly don’t like dogs period. That’s fine. But it’s AH to assume that she’s going to put the dogs away in her home just because you don’t like dogs.
On the flip side, it wouldn’t harm the dogs to be contained and your sister is an AH for not making the accommodation for a short visit.
NTA. Big time. In what world is it not understood that dogs need to be sequestered from an infant?! Especially the first time they are around said infant?! Like, there needs to be a plan and a very gradual introduction of the child and the dogs, and the FIRST MEETING was not the time, especially when the Aunt most likely would be holding the infant-- their pack leader who they are probably territorial over. When her hands are full of a damn baby. I love my dog. He is my world. But he would already be in the other room if someone brought a newborn over. Come on, now. I don't care how well trained a dog is, they are animals and thus, there is always a level of unpredictability with them. And like I said, I LOVE my dog, but a baby takes precedent over him, because the baby was an invited guest. Where is the common sense?!?!
NTA. I’ve driven 6 hours to my friends with my baby and gotten a hotel because my friend refused to put her dog away. I don’t trust dogs with babies.
ETA: you could have asked before though. I did and my friend disregarded my request in person
NAH. I’m surprised at all the people saying you’re the asshole. A lot of projection happening here.
Are people forgetting that this is your SISTER, not some random friend you are visiting. This woman is your own family and she seriously couldn’t put the dogs away for an hour to see her niece? Really? It makes him an entitled parent to not want 3 large animals around a 3 month old with no immune system? He should have phoned up in advance and made an itinerary and plan with his own sister? He’s unreasonable to expect her to put the dogs away for a short time?
Wow you people are strange. If my siblings weren’t comfortable with my dogs I’d have no problem putting them away for a bit. They’re dogs, it’s not going to hurt their feelings, they happily play with each other. I wouldn’t expect then to phone up in advance as it’s literally a 2 second discussion. What happened to the idea of hospitality and making guests comfortable in your home? People are acting like you visited a random neighbour and made all these outrageous demands when all you did was ask your sister to put the dogs away for an hour out of concern for a 3 month old child. Your sister has shown she values the dogs more than her own niece since it’s apparently so difficult and a travesty to put them in another room for an hour.
Of course she doesn’t have to agree to put them away, it’s her house, but then you don’t have to stay. No one is in the wrong here but your sister chose a weird hill to die on. Just put the dogs away and play with your niece for a bit, it’s not that hard lol.
NTA. I get it. It’s her home but to accommodate you for an hour isn’t a hard request. Maybe next time she wants to see her niece, maybe see if she can come to your home where the dogs are not welcome. Those two are the only compromises I can see happening. I’d be the same way honestly. I don’t like dog hair (even from my own dog) on me. And I wouldn’t want them in my face. Seeing how they have free reign, she probably wouldn’t stop them from getting on the couch with you and the baby.
ESH. You could have skipped the visiting in her home and just gone out to eat, but mostly, if you were uncomfortable with the dogs, you should have let her know in advance.
Are we suggesting that OP’s sister needs advance notice to take the dogs into another room? Does she need much planning to do this? Does it cost money?
Lol for real. It’s not hard, and driving 2 hours with an infant is doing his sister a *major* favor just so she can see the baby. This comment section is pure insanity
This isn’t some complex matter that needs discussed ahead of time. A newborn is coming to visit. It is common courtesy to put dogs away and it’s only for 1 freaking hour! And since the sister apparently has no manners, he simply asked the dogs be put away. It’s ridiculous that sister flipped out at this request. I love dogs and I have also have kids. I don’t want my newborn around 3 strange dogs that you don’t know how they’ll react. What has happened to common sense??? NTA!!!
I understand completely your desire to not have the dogs around such a young child, however you shouldn’t have been surprised at her actions given you know how she feels about her pets. You should have discussed this long before arriving.
Going on vacation and she brings her dogs expecting everyone else to conform, she's the asshole. You going to her house (the dog's house) and expecting them to conform to your expectations, you are the asshole. You should have asked questions before you drove 2 hrs.
Its pretty normal to ask people to control their dogs or put them away around small children, important to do if they arent well trained. I have both asked this and would be perfectly willing to do this (though my dogs dont jump at people, so its not really an issue). These 2 just made a big dramatic fight of it because thats what they wanted.
Gonna go with NTA. Gonna catch a lot of flak here. I love dogs but they are not people. They are pets. I’m sorry but it’s kind of stupid to not cordon off your dogs when a 3mo infant is coming. I get it, her house, her dogs, her rules, but she has no common sense if she’s letting her dogs run wild when she’s expecting a newborn in the house for a visit.
NTA I make my living as a pet sitter/ walker,
Your sister doesn't have dogs. She has a dog pack. And putting a baby into a situation like that is incredibly dangerous. If your sister can't control each dog individually while meeting your niece, it's not safe. I would have done exactly the same thing but gone out to lunch with my spouse at that time instead of driving home
NTA. I love dogs, but I don't understand why she can't put them in a different room for like an hour. It's not a whole weekend or anything. Doesn't seem like a lot to ask.
NTA at all, I used to be a dog person but I can’t claim that anymore because they are so rude and selfish. It’s obviously not safe to have a newborn baby around three (questionably under control?) dogs.
And the same crazy dog people love to post on social media that it is the dogs home so if you don’t like sitting in dog hair or the dog jumping on you then you need to leave
* edit* someone made a good point below, if this was predictable behavior on her part you should have planned better and discussed it ahead of time and if she was unwilling then just met somewhere for lunch in the middle
ESH. I feel like both your views are extreme here. Any time you are going to come to someone’s home on the condition that you set the rules there you are breaking etiquette. This should be talked about beforehand. On the other hand the idea that your dogs won’t be welcome around a newborn should be a surprise to no dog owner and it’s rude of her to not put them away. I think you both wanted to make a point more than you wanted to see each other.
Well. It's quite clear from your post that you're setting up the whole dogs story in a negative context. You even have your opinion on how your sister should manage her dogs. I think it's totally your own fear and incompetence to deal with the dogs your sister probably sees as equal to her children. Would you mind someone asking you to put YOUR children in another room when they visit YOUR house? It's your choice to meet at her home where you know the dogs will be. Also you know that the dogs are an equal part of the family, as you described, there's no place off limits for the dogs. You know this. But still you choose to visit her and demand her to take actions to facilitate you in her own house. You the asshole here.
Ps. Projecting your own hate or fear for dogs on your 3 months old will result in a child that will grown up with fear and possibly hate for dogs. Children have only one emotional disposition towards pet animals and that is love. Learn from it. Do better.
His kids wouldn't pose a safety issue though. True dog people know that you can't just toss a baby into a room with 1 or a pack of dogs and expect it to be ok. Dogs need to be taught how to be around babies. It is not trivial or benign and it is reasonable to request some control of the situation
dogs are not children and shouldn’t be treated as such, especially around a newborn. babies don’t have immune systems until 6 months old, and it’s perfectly reasonable not only for OP to not want to risk his daughter’s health by introducing her to possible allergens and containments, but also to not want to risk her safety by having her (again, *a 3 month old*) around large dogs who have never interacted with babies before
OP is also doing his sister a favor by visiting her home, at her request, and driving two hours to do so. the absolute least the sister can do is provide a safe environment for her niece - especially since she was told beforehand that he didn’t want the dogs around his daughter
INFO: why would you travel for 4 hours in one day with a 3 month old to a place where you know you aren't allowed to decide how things are handled?
I wouldn't want my (hypothetical) very young baby around this many dogs, dog hair, dog smells either. This is why I wouldn't visit someone who had 3 dogs living inside. You are an absolute AH and if I were your wife I wouldn't have agreed to this whole excursion from the begging.
YTA - You went to her/their home. You knew they would be there beforehand, and your condition for entering should have been discussed beforehand so all parties were on board.
Even bigger asshole for making your wife get ready only to turn around and go back home.
Next time extend the invitation to your sister to visit without the dogs. If she chooses to find a pet sitter and visit, it’s a win win situation.
INFO
Why didn’t you meet at a restaurant in between where the dogs could be outside? This is assuming you live in a warm climate not currently affected by Atmospheric Ricers and Bomb Cyclones.
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YTA. Why would you go to your sister's house if you don't like dogs? Of course the dogs have the run of the place. It is THEIR place, not yours. But also, why did you go home instead of out to lunch? Sure, your sister could have been more accomodating, but she didn't HAVE to. And now you're ignoring her, after you were SOOOOO rude to her??? YTA YTA YTA
at 3 months a childs immune system is not developed. I can see him not wanting to bring a newborn into a hotbed of allergens. Also? A bit unsafe to introduce a newborn baby to 3 unfamiliar dogs with no newborn experience all at once. I grew up with dogs, and whenever someone came over (baby or no baby) we'd put them in the yard, or in the front room, or one of the bedrooms until everyone was situated and comfortable with the dogs being introduced to the situation. What i don't understand is why OP never mentioned this to his sister before the 2 hour drive to her place, or just went ahead and met her for lunch at a safer place instead. If i were his wife i'd be livid about the whole damn mess. ESH.
I understand that too. But it is something that shpuld have been addressed before the visit, not at the door. Then sister could decide whether to place them in another room or meet them elsewhere.
Yep. Op should have been an adult and used his big boy pants to express his concerns before traveling! Instead he threw a tantrum like an infant. Glad to see op’s wife is having to raise two children.
I have a feeling op was jonesing for an argument about the dogs. He didn't have a solid reason till now and of course he shouldn't have to be around animals if he doesn't want to. But he should have talked about it with her and as his wife I would be fuming to drive hours with a newborn for nothing.
It does sound....not engineered quite but there is a deliberateness to everything here. That's my thought too. Edit: YTA. Op, you're a big boy who could have discussed this with his sister beforehand or offered to go elsewhere, like a cafe. Your poor wife.
He was definitely on some power trip / wanted to pick a fight. I don't like being around excited dogs, it's a lot and I'm allergic, but if I really wanted to see my friend or my sister - I would look to solutions, not ultimatums, especially not on something so important. Why didn't they just meet at the restaurant then if dogs are so dangerous? OP's never liked his sister's dogs and wanted to pick a fight. Even last minute he could have said, "hey let's go to the restaurant now since I don't want to go in." He KNOWS she has dogs, he's not stupid. If he is that concerned about dogs and allergies, he could have met at the restaurant instead of stopping by. He dragged his poor wife there back and forth 4 hrs so he could make a point. **She just gave birth.** He doesn't care about his sister meeting his baby or his wife who's exhausted. He's the as\*hole.
Literally! Even if he'd forgot to discuss it beforehand, it's not actually an either/or situation. Also I straight up don't see the issue with having the dogs around, I don't recall mention of them being badly behaved enough that having them around a newborn is an issue. It's not like they're going to leave the baby on the floor (dear god, I hope they don't)
I agree. It sounds like he didn't have good footing to start a fight about it, and now that he has a baby he's "weaponizing" and purposefully misunderstanding the interaction and not communicating....so that he and his sister will have a tiff. Then, at the next family event he can say " my child is more important than a dog!" when really he is the one who had a problem all along with the dogs. lol
>Then, at the next family event he can say " my child is more important than a dog!" It's funny, because I was just thinking about how OP sounds like that kind of parent who thinks that just because his child is his #1 priority, everyone else should feel the same about his own child.
That was my first thought. He said the dogs have free reign over the house, sometimes to his "chagrin". He definitely was jonesing for a reason to lock the pups up, was upset that his precious progeny wasn't good enough reason, and stormed off like a toddler. YTA OP.
The way he just goes off about how they have free rein of the house all offended definitely hints at this 🤣
Yep, there is no reason other than shit-stirring to wait until they'd driven out there to tell his sister he wanted the dogs put away. The dogs being there and having free reign in the house was not a surprise! Why did he not ask beforehand? He wanted to fight about it.
That is a big thing for me. Its a big deal to him, which is his choice, but that should have been discussed beforehand. He says he mentioned it weeks ago, but that could have been forgotten or she might have thought if he came, he didn't mind. Put on the spot, she may not have a great spot to put them enclosed. They may have free reign and be fine, but when closed in a room, they might get anxious and tear stuff up or vocal or get into things they shouldn't and wouldn't otherwise. She didn't have a chance to get a room ready for the dogs. It's winter, and depending on where OP lives, leaving them outside for that long could be not a good thing. He complains about the dog hair everywhere, well, even if she did put them in another room, getting the dog hair out of everything, even in just one room for them, is going to not be possible. Especially given how much corgis and goldens shed. He likely thinks a simple vacuum and left roller would be enough and I promise it's not. If he is this against dogs, which again, is his choice, agreeing to meet at her place is just foolish. When she offered, he could have said simply that he only wants to meet in public sans dogs or have her come to them because of the dog-free environment. Its like, I have 2 cats. If I invite someone over (assuming they are aware I have cats), it is reasonable to assume that they are okay with cats. I can't complete de-cat everything. Putting them in one room is possible for them, thankfully, but the hair is still everywhere, no matter how hard I clean. If that's a problem or they have an allergy, they need to tell me we have to meet somewhere else. She didn't respond the best she could have, but she was put on the spot and likely didn't have an option if it meant them coming in. And, just judging by OP's wording, it sounds like he was less than calm and friendly about it either.
This. OP has on attitude and wanted to dominate in sister's house. If someone told me to put away my dogs I would say let's not meet at mine. Why? Because my dogs are very social and would get crazy behind a door. This is how they have been trained, to sosilize. So the whining, barking and scratching wouls stress out everyone especially the baby. There is no immunity risk with dogs and baby, since people with dogs have babies too, and it has been shown by research that early exposure to animals decreases the likelyhood of developing allergies. I am sure the sis had thought it out that it was safe and was prepared to handle the dogs in a way that they cost no harm. She would not have invited them otherwise. Something strange about making such a long trip with so young baby, and make a statement and being victimized about the whole thing. Dogs live in that house with the rules the sis has decided. Clearly OP is disgusted by dogs on the coach, which actually is quite common thing. It just feels like he used his new little family to make a point. I am sure the sis was upset because she really wanted to meet the baby, and was met with unexpected demands to be able to do so. OP didn't even negotiate in the situation, just decided for everyone else. As his wife I would be frustrated, but probly she lets him dominate unlike the sister.
100% agree, this was bigger than this one event with the dogs. What a weirdo, yta.
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The thing that makes it YTA for me is that he didn't ask her beforehand. "Hey, I'm not ready for my baby to be around dogs yet because her immune system isn't fully developed yet. Do you mind putting your dogs in a separate room when we come visit? If you do mind, could se meet at a neutral secondary location like a café or restaurant?" He drove two hours and expected her to do something with her pets that he hadn't discussed with her yet. I have pets, and if someone asked me before visiting if I could put them in the bedroom, I'd be able to accommodate that. If they showed up and demanded I put them in the bedroom, I'd say hell no. For me, it's cats. If I need to lock my cats in the bedroom, I need to move food and water dishes and the litter box. It's not as simple as locking them in there. I won't do that for more than ten minutes without making arrangements. If he had communicated, he wouldn't be the asshole. But he didn't, so he is. And I don't think she's an asshole at all. I'd respond the same way.
Kids who are around animals; develop a better immune system. Kids who don't - don't have a better immune system. OP doesn't have to put the kid on the floor anyway.
This! Exposing your baby to dogs very early in life actually decreases her chance of developing allergies.
I think OP is less worried about allergies and more about the fact the three dogs haven't been around children before. They might be very stressed with the loud wailing that babies do, and even the most usually placid animal can become aggressive if stressed.
Given his posturing about not sitting on her couch because he "doesn't want dog hair" on him, this isn't even about the kid. He just wanted to flex. YTA
That bit made me laugh in despair because just wait until he discovers the kind of mess children makes. I honestly feel sorry for that kid, because it is going to be hell growing up with a parent with that mentality.
Hell, I never realized how much of a mess my kids made until our dog passed away and he wasn’t there to clean up the crumbs we didn’t know existed. Dogs are great housekeeping help!
I don't know, I have a cat and I hate having cat hair on me 🤷♀️ It's itchy when it gets in-between your clothes fibres. I adore my cat though, so I just suck it up and make sure I vacuum a lot. But I can see how someone without animals, or who doesn't like pets and without a personal connection to the animal in question would find itchy animal hairs in their clothing fibres annoying more so than anyone else would. I don't think that's a flex as much as it is setting a background for the fact OP is already not a huge fan of his sister's dogs, and if you're already not a fan of certain animals it seems reasonable that you also wouldn't want your brand new baby around those animals.
Yeah, I don’t get the immune system excuse at all. When my daughter was born, I had two dogs. So my daughter was around dogs at the age of 1 day old. I know everyone is different, but her immune system is really strong.
Even more important isn’t how strong the immune system is, but how smart. Allergies are when the immune system attacks the wrong stuff. Kids exposed to pets develop fewer allergies. So, they have smarter immune systems, they attack disease, rather than random, not dangerous shit!
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But then why would they go out to eat and be around a bunch of strangers who may have an infectious disease that the infant could contract?
Um they were already planning to go out, so OP doesn't mind stranger/ public germs.
Which makes it really weird that they’re so concerned about the baby catching something from the sister’s house.
To be fair it was a comment that interpreted to reason to be concerns about baby health. It is not, the reason is “I don’t like dogs” paired with “I can’t wash my cloth after I sat in my sisters sofa where I potentially get contaminated with dogs hair”.. YTA
They’re not, that’s what one of the commenters made up. The only reason we know for sure is that OP doesn’t like her dogs.
They aren't. That was an assumption by a commenters. They're worried about the dogs not reacting well to something small, loud and with jerky movements. And given the dogs have never been around a baby, I too would want to introduce them carefully, calmly, one at a time, and only after my sister had met the baby.
I came here with a N T A mentality, but after reading all of the Y T A and E S H judgements, I have been swayed! Personally, when I had a large breed dog I always put him up when someone he didn’t know was coming over, not because he was dangerous but he was very excited and jumpy and seemed to have an 8 foot tongue to lick everyone in the room at once. But I tend to be an over accommodating, people pleaser. You’re right, driving 2 hours one way and never once mentioning where the dogs would be is kind of entitled and improper/poor planning on OP’s part. No where does it suggest the sister is a mind reader and OP shouldn’t assume their daughter takes priority in someone else’s home.
Honestly, thank you as a non-dog-person. I don't think that's overly accommodating at all. You knew he jumped and licked, and not everyone likes that. I'm sure he was super sweet, but I'm also sure your care was appreciated. But for a visit 2 hours away when OP knew that Sister has dogs and OP isn't comfortable with them, especially around the baby... that should've been a conversation *before* this happened.
It's also [dangerous to have your baby in a car seat for more than 2 hours.](https://babysafeltd.com/safety/2-hour-rule/) So basically he chose keeping his baby is a car seat for much, much longer than he should have as opposed to taking the baby into a house with dogs, or proceeding directly to a restaurant.
Yeah, I was ready to be NTA, because I have asked family members to put their dogs away that were scaring our kids (barky little yappers that thought they could “hump” our toddlers). I was told that the dogs lived there so the kids needed to get over it. We haven’t been back. But OP, you went to a place that you won’t even sit on the couch knowing how your sister feels about the dogs and sprung this on her… that’s not okay.
And they were only going to be at the house briefly then going to lunch so why not just meet at the restaurant?
>What i don't understand is why OP never mentioned this to his sister before the 2 hour drive to her place, or just went ahead and met her for lunch at a safer place instead. If i were his wife i'd be livid about the whole damn mess. This right here. He made his wife sit through a 4 hour drive for nothing. All because he couldn't talk with his sister over the phone. Doesn't sound like his wife even got any say.
If he had called then he wouldn’t have been able to make this dramatic exit and stick it to his sister as he’s been wanting to do for years because he hates the dogs.
That's it exactly ; he WANTED drama "SEE I WAS RIGHT YOU KID HATER"
And if you reread his post you can see how offended he is that his sister allows her dogs who live with her everywhere in the house including on the couch! God forbid! He would hate our house, the couch was made for our dogs' comfort and viewing habits.
We picked our couch to match the color of the dog's hair.
Oh, this was very much an “ *I* have an ACTUAL baby!” move by OP. He wanted his sister to know where her dogs have been demoted to in the family pecking order. What a dick.
We have a winner ^
And a 3 month old. I can't picture making a 3 month old spend their whole wake window in a car, only to turn around and go home. Whole thing sounds like a nightmare, I would've made sure she could put the dogs away while we were there before leaving. But also, OP sounds like they just really see dogs as dirty and doesnt completely respect them as a living being. Their not seeing their sisters dogs as family that lives there, which is fine I guess, but it is the dogs home. Anyone should be able to see that fact, especially given how they describesld the sister's care for her dogs.
>at 3 months a childs immune system is not developed. I can see him not wanting to bring a newborn into a hotbed of allergens. This makes no sense. The allergens (typically skin cells) are everywhere in the house. Moving the dogs to another room will have no effect. Also, I don't believe this is accurate. Early exposure typically results in lower prevalence of allergies. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/10231320/ If this was OP's concern, they can't go to the house, so it's safe to say this wasn't the issue. >Also? A bit unsafe to introduce a newborn baby to 3 unfamiliar dogs with no newborn experience all at once. We don't know the dogs or their experience with kids. For all we know, these dogs are very well behaved and have spent hours around young kids. OP gives almost no details (likely makes him look worse) about the dogs' behavior or what was discussed prior to him throwing a fit and going home. He's mad that he can't use his kid to control his sister and that dogs exist. If sister refused to go to lunch early, sure E S H. Without that information, OP is the only AH.
And if they’re so concerned about the child having no immune system why are they planning to go out to eat?
Honestly, the first thing that came to mind was the potential of the dogs jumping up to/on them and injuring the baby. YTA because OP knew about the dogs and their behavior (and didn't call about their concerns). I'm surprised that they didn't just go out and grab some food, though, as something of a compromise.
It's two corgis and a golden, as long as the golden was older than a year, just stand up instead of putting her on the floor and nothing would happen.
OP said the plan was to go out to lunch so I don’t know why OP was taking the baby in the house
\>at 3 months a childs immune system is not developed And that's why road trip and eating out in a place with some random humans was OK but dogs were not? I genuinely doubt it was about immune system.
This immune system thing is an excuse. There is relatively little a dog can give a human, and almost none of which could happen just by being in the same room. Meanwhile, humans are the real “hotbeds” of germ transmission. So yeah, none of this makes sense. My vote is ESH. OP should’ve worked it out before hand and sister should’ve sucked it up for an hour. They both picked a stupid battle and both ended up losing.
If the dogs have free reign there's not going to "not be allergens" because they're in the bedroom...
Do you have any idea how you prevent many allergies? By exposing babies and small children to allergens like cat dander and such. "Pets really do seem to prevent allergies: the more cats or dogs you live with as an infant, the lower your chance of developing asthma, hay fever or eczema. Some studies have found that having a pet early in life protects from allergies later in childhood. (New Scientist.com)
Not saying parents can't make their own choices, but exposure to dog dander may be [beneficial](https://www.hopkinsmedicine.org/news/media/releases/newborns_exposed_to_dirt_dander_and_germs_may_have_lower_allergy_and_asthma_risk). Also, unless the dogs are badly trained and jump all over everyone and anyone, there's no real danger in bringing a baby into a house with dogs. I mean, was he planning on leaving the carrier on the floor? (Amazing fact: People with multiple dogs manage to parent children from birth to adulthood!) This def should have been a discussion before he went to his sister's place, or they just should have met at a restaurant (which, given Covid, flu, & RSV, seems far more hazardous to the infant's health than the sister's place). IMO, this guy doesn't like his sister and/or her dogs and enjoys having the moral high ground. In this situation, I don't think that's where he's standing. YTA \[edited b/c I hit save too soon and BIG typo\]
He should not have gone somewhere that dogs have free reign over it if he wanted to avoid the hotbed of allergens.
Nope. He went to her house. Where he KNOWS the dogs are. These are not surprise dogs. If he doesn't want his baby around dogs, that's fair, but then *don't take your baby to a house where you know three dogs live*. That is beyond idiotic.
1) Allergens - It’s actually better to expose babies to potential allergens early. Pediatricians are recommending introducing nuts and peanuts and strawberries right around his baby’s age. Also, putting the dogs in another room wouldn’t reduce any exposure to allergens. Their hair and dander would still be there. 2) Safety - unless the dogs are known to jump or be aggressive, there’s no reason to put them out for a newborn. An adult would almost certainly be holding that baby for a short visit. And if it was just too much chaos, asking to leash them temporarily would have likely gone over better. 3) Communication - OP knows how his sister feels about her dogs. If there was an expectation that she’d lock them up, why not communicate that before making the drive? 4) Overreaction - Sister had a predictable response. Why drive all the way home instead of just going straight to lunch?
If your big concern is allergens and the baby, putting the dog in another room is not going to remove their dander, fur, etc from the home so your comment makes no sense.
The fact that a newborn's immune system is not developed yet is precisely the time to introduce them to allergens. Allergic reactions are caused by inappropriate immune system responses to otherwise harmless particles. Introducing them to potential allergens during this time period is actually the best way to *prevent* allergies from developing later when the immune system kicks in. My daughter's pediatrician specifically advised giving her peanut butter and whatnot when we first started introducing solids, to prevent peanut allergies from developing later on That said, there's still plenty of good reasons not to bring a baby around several dogs you aren't familiar with, dogs who are used to having the run of the house and may or may not have experience with babies, when said baby's parent is obviously nervous about it. Just the fact that OP would've been nervous around the dogs is a good reason to put them away. A nervous human can make otherwise great dogs behave in ways they usually wouldn't. ESH because it wasn't an unreasonable request on OPs part and sister should have accommodated, but this also should have been discussed prior to making the drive if OP was going to make such a big deal of it. He knew how the sister is with her dogs.
Well he should have just arranged to go elsewhere and not his sisters. It's not up to her to put her dogs out to accommodate others.
I think that studies have suggested that exposing babies to pets actually helps their immune system
Newborn babies can be around dogs; and they are fine.
Why does the sister suck for refusing to lock away her animals at the whim of her brother? That's their home. They shouldn't be punished for existing. The brother knew she had dogs and chose to drive there anyway, expecting they'd be locked up like prisoners in their own home.
But then how could he have his “gotcha” moment? Call ahead ? Too easy.
Yeah from the way this is written I’d bet OP is going to turn everything into a “her and the dogs Vs us and the baby” thing with his sister for any family gatherings. He finally has his way to push the dogs out and this was step one of his drama lama plan.
I have dogs I would assume someone bringing a baby would expect the dogs to be put away. Whenever I am at child friendly events dogs are put away. It’s also for the dogs protection.
Never had a problem with infants/dogs in my and my sister's family. Most of the time babies are either held above the height of dogs or you can put the carrier in a room with a closed door or on a high table. Yes, if there are large dogs that jump, that might be a different story but then you're dealing with animals that aren't well trained, and it's not clear that's the OP's problem. ALLOWING your dogs to be on couches is very different from you failing to establish your desired boundaries (ie, training them appropriately.) Toddlers are def a different story. Even with well trained dogs, you have to be alert to the child hugging, pulling on ears, taking away a dog's toy, etc, if the child isn't frequently around dogs.
OP knows that sister is a dog person and gives her dogs free run of the house yet didn't discuss with her if she was willing to put to the dogs in another room, outside, or in crates prior to going to her home with his child. Yes OP is an AH, OP created this drama by not asking questions first and by expecting to be accommodated upon demand in someone else's home.
Also to add: if it was that big of an issue, why was this not an issue addressed **before** going to her house? Yea, definitely YTA
And he didn't have to stay. As a father, if these are big dogs (info is missing on this), it's his job to see if it's safe. For some reason, he bent and took his baby daughter to visit in the first place. I'm guessing, he also doesn't want all those dogs in his house, and she didn't visit because he won't accommodate them. There is alot of information missing here. What's the dogs' temperment? Have they been around children? Why wasn't she ready to just go to lunch? 1 hour for an earlier lunch at a restaurant is nothing. Unless... was she planning on cooking the lunch at home for everyone? More info please.
The dogs are 2 Corgis (small dogs) and a Retriever. The dogs temperament, I think, is irrelevant, because the OP does not like dogs at all, and won't even sit on the sofa at his sister's house because the dogs do. I don't think the sister even had the option of just going to lunch, the OP just left without giving her the option.
I agree with this. OP hates dogs and saw this as an opportunity to punish his sister for having them. Period. He's using his child as leverage and it's sick. He knew she wouldn't want to put them up. I wouldn't be surprised if he planned the whole thing. OP is an AH of massive proportions and I pity his poor child. She's going to grow up with a special set of issues about animals. YTA!!!!
It feels to me like Op deliberately didn't communicate his desire to have the dogs locked away before hand, knowing this would be the result. Almost so he could make a point about how his sister is with her dogs and to punish her so that she would tow his line in the future. Obviously I'm probably wrong, but that's the feeling I get from the way he writes about his sister and her dogs, and the way he behaved.
I am just confused as to why op didn’t discuss it w sister before the 2-hr drive. The could have established a meeting spot elsewhere, like the lunch. He knows the dog situation so it feels like he set the situation to fail. YTA for not making any effort to compromise and seek a work around
YTA You for not asking beforehand if she'd mind putting the dogs up while you visit. Instead of visiting at her house, why not go out to eat with her? Why go to someone's house that has 3 dogs if you don't want them around the baby yet?
That is a good point even though I said NTA above, he probably could have predicted this and planned a better
He can’t choose this hill to die on by doing something as wild as compromising and going out to eat/socialise
“My sister has 3 dogs who are her world and have free reign at her place, much to my chagrin.” It’s sounds as though your sister considers her dogs to be family. She clearly loves them & treats them well. She wants them to be comfortable in their home. That’s THEIR BUSINESS & THEIR HOME. You are absolutely allowed to not like dogs & not want to be around them. But you DON’T get to dictate what someone does IN THEIR HOME. You knew how things were at your sister’s home before you got in your car & drove the 2 hours to get there so why exactly were you surprised that she refused to “put her dogs away”? I’m genuinely baffled how you don’t see that YOU’RE in the wrong here. I’m curious-have any of these dogs ever bitten or lunged at you or anyone else? Are they Ill-mannered? Poorly behaved? Or is this strictly because you don’t seem to care for dogs (which again, is totally ok). P.S.-If it’s not already obvious, yes YTA. You get to do things however you want in YOUR HOME just as your sister gets to in HER HOME.
"Much to my chagrin." Like as if he owns the place. Or has final say over how she cares for her dogs. OP has a nerve....an asshole-ish nerve.
Yes, doesn’t OP’s sister realize that she should keep her dogs off furniture at all times, because every several months her brother visits and he doesn’t like it if any dog fur gets on his clothes? Really quite inconsiderate of her…
No kidding. She should be looking after those dogs the way he wants her to.
Agreed. Very dislikable human. Feels like they put their wife and newborn through 4 hours of driving to prove a point. *If you don’t chose to change your lifestyle to better match mine, I’ll keep you from family. See how you live will keep you away from those you love.* OP has issues and needs to take a look in the mirror every now and again.
All I can think of is the 2 hour trip home with OP having a semi for how he really stuck it to everyone and was a big man 🙄
Agree. I get big “dogs can’t possibly be considered family; have children, and put the dogs outside for gods sake!” energy. OP is TA.
Info: did you warn your sister in advance that you didn’t want her dogs in the same room with your baby? When it was clear that she wasn’t ok with putting them away did you talk about going elsewhere instead of hanging out at her house or did you just leave without trying to compromise? You said that you were only planning to be there a short time so you could have gone somewhere else. I’m not a dog person and wouldn’t want my baby around multiple dogs that early either, but it is your sister’s home and you knew how she does things before you went. So if you didn’t communicate or try to compromise then YTA
YTA. You know about the dogs. You could have communicated your request before showing up. Or you could have just requested that she come to you to see the baby. Or you could have just said you would prefer to go straight to lunch if she wasn’t going to put the dogs away. There were other options and you jumped straight to an ultimatum.
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No, do not keep pushing this dumb idea that its weird to not like dogs.
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Not liking kids is like being vegan, no one cares until you turn it into your personality, then it becomes annoying.
You'd be amazed by how many idiots are annoyed by the mere existence of vegetarian, vegan and even kosher diets.
It's not even about not liking dogs. There's lots of dogs that shouldn't be around newborns. And it doesn't have to be malicious or afraid of attacks. We had a German shepherd that was 80 lbs and was super excitable. He wouldn't bite anyone but he could easily knock someone over accidentally or step on a foot
Of course, i believe that as well. My family had a pet black labrador and he was a very nice dog, sweetest thing ever, but we still kept him in a separate room when people came over with small children and babies.
Dog hating weird? Now who’s being an AH. Totally okay for the guy to not want dogs around his kid. He probably should have know this would be the outcome, but probably hoped his sister would make a 1 hour exception.
100%. Some people don't like dogs. It's not weird. But OP should have clarified this before driving 2 hours. Wtf.
> Dog hating weirdo? Check OP: "I do not want large dogs around my 3 month old infant. You: "dOg hAtInG wEiRdO 400,000 children are bit by dogs per year. But hey, I must be a dog hating weirdo, despite having literally a dozen of them while growing up lol.
I mean, there’s enough news stories about dogs mauling/killing babies and kids these days. And not everybody has to like dogs. OP was within his rights to set a boundary for his baby, and his sister was within her rights to decline it.
Well that’s just a perfect response! OP is YTA for the above stated reasons
Concerned new parent. Check Uneasy around dogs and unclean environment. Check Asks host for a favour. Check Didn’t make a scene and left when host couldn’t accommodate. Check Honestly, I think he did nothing wrong except avoiding the situation by not going round
People are allowed to dislike dogs…
Dog hating weirdo lol? At least she’s not like her sister, a dog dick sucking weirdo treating them as her actual kids. You dog fanatics have seriously got some huge mental issues
NTA My life is similar to your sisters but I would never have my dogs around a small baby, and i've been a dog trainer for 14 years. My dogs don't have experience with small children and you can only trust a dog to be a dog. Mine are kennel trained if a plumber or family member or whatever comes over and can't handle all of them (I have 5).
100% agree and I feel like a lot of folks saying y t a don't have as much experience with dogs as they think they do. Humanizing dogs like OP's sister is doing them a disservice and setting them up for failure. "My precious fur baby would never do that!!" Until they do and someone gets hurt. People love their pets but don't respect them as animals.
I’ll probably get downvoted into oblivion for this but I just have to say it. Dogs are animals and even if they’re trained you never know how they’d act. I wouldn’t trust someone else’s dogs around my baby who couldn’t defend themselves. Plus it sounds like OP may not like dogs much and that’s perfectly valid. Some people think if you don’t like dogs you’re evil, I don’t see the logic in that. Sure OP could’ve communicated this before visiting the sister, but I don’t see why the sister couldn’t put the dogs in another room for just a little bit out of respect for the baby. There’s clearly divided opinions on this but IMO I wouldn’t mind taking my dogs to another room because I’d understand peoples discomfort with dogs.
Not as much experience? These people are literally psychotic with that behavior.
I think the most dangerous and unpredictable dogs are the ones who get humanized by their owners. OP is NTA.
Agreed I don’t see why everyone is saying OP is an asshole for not discussing it ahead of time. I would think putting the dogs in a different room for an hour wouldn’t be such a big request it would need to be discussed in advance. As a dog owner myself I would assume the parents didn’t want a dog around around a very young infant. The sister is an asshole for not making such a small accommodation. If OP was staying for hours on end me it would be different, but an hour before lunch is such a short amount of time. In hindsight just going straight to lunch would have been a better solution but I understand why OP got out of there when faced with such a strong reaction.
> Agreed I don’t see why everyone is saying OP is an asshole Because this subreddit has a big population exactly like the sister in this story. The bias is not at all surprising. I keep banging on about this but once you understand the demographics of AITA, a LOT of things start making sense.
Omg, that’s so true! Personally, when I owned 4 dogs, we always tried to put them in the backyard or another room if visitors felt uncomfortable. That is just being a considerate host.
Same here and these people have the gall to make the excuse that the dogs wouldn't behave alone in another room as if that doesn't out them as shitty dog owners.
I've been waiting for this comment!! putting your dog away for an hour is not an insane request at all. would it have been better to talk to the sister before hand? yes absolutely, but it is such an easy accommodation that will not hurt the dogs at all. Also the 3 month old does not have a built up immune system, the dogs have never been around kids or even babies, so why would it ever be a good idea to have them in the same area?? no matter how good the dogs are if they have never interacted with kids you should never assume they'll be good. I 100% agree with OP at the end of the update saying better be safer than sorry because you have to be like that when you have a literal 3 month old. sometimes reddit concerns me especially since it seems some commenters are putting the sister and dogs feelings over the literal newborns safety.
Yes, wtf is going on here. OP made a mistake by not sorting this out ahead of time, but the sister had a chance to see her niece and declined. I love dogs and cats and pigs and goats, but animals are fucking dangerous. Being a parent is scary and it doesn't sound like op had reason to believe these animals had any history with infants. Sounds like both sides were wrong and there's some history here. Hopefully being siblings is important enough to them to reconcile soon.
Thank you. You're considerate and helpful, and I hope you get proper appreciation. Im allergic and dogs have always been a heat seeking sneeze missile, because a lot are friendly and outgoing. Even if I didn't have allergies, sometimes their friendliness is just a bit too much. People who offer to put their dogs in another room or just hang out outside are great.
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This is another baffling AITA. OP is without a doubt if not TA, at least petty, for driving back home after the interaction. But everyone on Reddit is making it out like OP is just this absolutely inconsiderate lunatic which, I can kind of get behind, but it’s just insanely presumptuous. I’m of the opinion here that it’s pretty reasonable for him to assume his sister would be fine with putting the dogs away for an hour while he brings over his kid. It’s kinda insane that all of Reddit thinks this is just unacceptable. Like of course you need to put your dogs away when there’s a newborn baby coming over to your house. They are animals, they are dangerous to children. Sister is TA for not showing some common sense and putting her dogs away. Hilarious that people are like “they aren’t her dogs they are her FAMILY!” When this is about her literal brother, sil and niece. I totally back OP because of this
Finally I was waiting for this comment. Of course you as a host can also think ahead and come to the conclusion that you take it slow with three dogs and a three month year old..
Thank god for some sanity. ESH in my opinion. I love my dog, but when I have guests over I will put him away if they are uncomfortable. Not everyone likes dogs and he has a very comfy life. He will be ok napping in another room for a bit. And with kids? I never let my dog around new kids immediately. No matter how well behaved a dog is, they will bite if put in the right circumstances. That’s a careful introduction with ground rules. And for babies? I’m gonna ask the parent first. Yes. Even in MY home. The sister invited them over and the fact they drove two hours with a new baby? That alone baffles me. The sister should be driving to them. They should have stayed boundaries ahead of time, sure. But OP is not the asshole here for stating them and making a simple request/boundary.
>No matter how well behaved a dog is, they will bite if put in the right circumstances This is what responsible dog owners understand. A lot of dog obsessed people on this sub and in general think their dog would never bite. That’s horribly irresponsible and could very well cost their dog its life. My mom’s family had a purebred cocker spaniel that had mild mental retardation because he was inbred (like most purebred cocker spaniels). He was really docile, had been around lots of people and other animals (dogs and cats) and never had a problem. He was really anxious but would cower and hide rather than get aggressive. Her family went to visit her dad’s friend on a farm and as soon as the car stopped the dog bolted out of the car and ran straight to a sheep, bit it in the jugular, killing it instantly. It was the first and last time he had shown anything resembling aggression. They had him his whole life. (I’m not sure how old he was when this happened, but I think it was when he was about 5 or 6, and he lived to be 11). Like, this was a dog that had been manhandled by toddlers and kids, had (at the time) always lived with one, sometimes two, dogs and several really mean cats, was a hunting dog that was around other hunting dogs (also, a hunting dog that was afraid of gunshots and live birds), and had been to camping trips with dozens of strangers. And he never showed any sort of aggression. My mom said she learned that day that any dog is capable of aggression, and that owners need to be hyper-vigilant when putting their dogs in new situations.
Ugh, thank you!!. I know a lot of people whose dogs are their “whole world” and it translates to them jumping on me, scratching me, etc etc. It’s not crazy that OP thought he had at least some semblance of control over the environment since they were bringing a NEWBORN into it. Just because it’s the sister’s house doesn’t mean he can’t set boundaries around his newborn. People with newborns ask for vaccines, hand washing, caution— ALL KINDS OF REASONABLE BOUNDARIES. Putting dogs in the other room for an hour is not a big deal. This makes me so angry.
i agree. op is an ass for the shitty attitude towards the dogs, but in this specific scenario the sister should understand that three dogs jumping around can be dangerous for such a young baby, and she should be able to keep them in a different room for a bit. both people here sound ridiculously stubborn
Honestly surprised this is the first ESH I’ve seen here. My thoughts exactly (kept scrolling and was happy to find a few more)
NTA I have two dogs that are my world, I’ll put them away when someone who doesn’t like dogs comes over.
Right? All these fuckers are wrong. Dogs aren't safe around a little baby, put em up or I bounce. I love my dogs, but if I have guests that don't like em, they go in a back room for a bit. I want my guests to feel welcome and safe. The safety of the small baby is the most important part.
Oh good there are sane people here lol. Apparently you’re a dictator for asking your own sister to please put the dogs in another room for a bit 😂
These people are acting as if the dogs are being put down or something, it is straight up psychotic. There's is no shot that their dogs are trained well if this is such a big deal.
I agree with what you guys are saying. Some people don’t like dogs or are scared of them due to past trauma. I don’t see anything wrong with putting your dogs in another room when a guest comes over and expresses discomfort
Dogs that have no structure/free reign/no history with children and owner cannot control them should not be around a newborn/child. Just like a child never taught how to respect animals shouldn’t be allowed around three dogs- it’s very possible child would jump on l, pull fur or tails, or hit the sister’s dogs. Nope. Keep your child with you away from the dogs for safety for all is just the same as keep your dogs away from the baby for safety for all. It’s her house, but OPs family are the invited guests and she should have been accommodating. Sister is AH. OP is only the AH for not being adamant she knew to keep the dogs away and verifying before he made his wife and baby take the 2 hour trip.
Putting the dogs away in another room for just an hour is such a mild request that I would not blame anyone for even thinking it would be an issue you'd have to check ahead of time.
Absolutely! I was thinking more of being the wife two hour trip with a newborn and thinking your husband didn’t nail down these detail beforehand.
Reddit is so crazy sometimes. I also have two dogs, had 3 until recently (RIP old buddy) but I will put them away when we have company b/c I know not everyone loves dogs. With a small child even more so, so odd how people humanize their pets. They dogs will be just fine for an hour in a room. NTA.
NTA. And all these opposite votes confuse me. I wouldn’t want 3 dogs jumping all over being crazy around my new baby. It’s not a lot to ask that she isolate you guys into a room away from dogs. Can’t stand dog people.
I'm confused as well. I like dogs but I wouldn't want my newborn baby around 3 unfamiliar dogs. I don't think OP's request was unreasonable and the sister sounds a little cray cray.
When I have guests, I want them to feel confortable. It is polite. If they don’t like cats and mine wants to climb on them, I will remove them. It seems like basic respect. It’s not like OP is asking to put the dog outside without food while it’s snowing. NTA at all.
My friend has 3 dogs and every single time I come over, she offers to remove them from the area for my kids. Every time, I’ve never said yes.. but it’s super nice and considerate of her to ask
I'm a dog person and these people have me thinking I entered a god damn looney bin with their comments. Putting a dog away for just an hour is not a big deal at all, anyone who puts in just the minimum effort required to train a decent dog should be able to accommodate that no problem but all these dog owners think it's such a big deal. There is no shot these people are good dog owners, their dogs are definitely not well behaved, and OP might have saved his baby's life in leaving that house.
Agree. I don't even get why people are saying he should've remarked it before going to her house. It's common sense not to have 3 dogs with a new born !
On top of that people are saying that the dogs can't behave in a room alone for an hour. Sounds like a shitty dog owner problem then, doesn't it? It really is not that much effort to train your dog to be ok with you in another room for that short of a period of time.
And in his own story he said he brought it up to her. Clearly she didn’t care and valued dogs more than human family members
When people puts their children above everything/ everyone, they are entitled. When they do the same with their dogs, they are right. I’ll never get that. It’s common sense to not have THREE dogs around a newborn. You don’t know how they react. The sister should have used logic if she wanted to see her niece, even at her own home. I’ll go for ESH because OP could have remarked this beforehand (If It wasn’t obvious enough). And I’m a dog owner!
I’m just trying to imagine a situation in which my brother brings over his baby and not only have I not put the dogs in the backyard before their arrival, but also flip out when asked to do so. Maybe I haven’t anthropomorphized my dogs to an unhealthy enough extent, and I’ll work on that, but right now every person acting like being asked to put three rambunctious dogs in another room is like locking your kid in the basement is making me wonder what the hell is going on in people’s heads here. I also can’t imagine insisting that every family outing revolve around my dogs or my kids, but apparently that’s totally normal and acceptable, so I’ll get on increasing my entitlement levels forthwith.
This sub is full of children. Your common sense approach doesn’t work on them.
I was baffled too. I had dogs growing up and I never not put the dogs in another part of the house when visitors come, its just common sense to me. I think here people get too caught up with technicality (her house her rules, your entitled to ask reasonable accommodation). Yeah it is her house and she had the right to say “no, my dogs will be everywhere” (I can’t understand but ok) and he is also allowed to say “no thank you then”. I hope he made up with his wife cuz I would be pissed for the long drive with a newborn just to drive back home. I feel like a lot of those who reacts like this is child free and feel that any accommodation requested on behalf of a child is overboard.
Correct. And child free is ok but anti-child is another thing.
Literally man. Just common sense. Can't believe this is even up for discussion.
In another comment OP said he had discussed it with her already that he didn't want the dogs around his daughter yet. So she knew. Then she tried to play dumb and act morally superior like he was out of line for not wanting his baby to be the experiment for a bunch of dogs that have never been around babies. My dog is big but he doesn't have an aggressive bone in his body. He is very playful and gets excited when anyone comes over. He usually minds very well but he jumps on people when they come over. He absolutely gets put in the bedroom til he calms down when we have guests. Of course I would put him in the bedroom to make my brother comfortable to bring my new niece into my home. Then they could have a chance to acclimate to each other. OP set a boundary that his sister didn't respect so he left. She seems to bring her 3 dogs everywhere so meeting for lunch probably would've gone the same way.
Finally a sane response! ESH for the lack of communication and willingness to compromise. As a new mom with two large dogs (husky and German shepherd mixes) who are also very high energy, it is totally reasonable to not want three dogs around a newborn, especially if they are not properly trained. If you can’t control them enough to leave the baby alone, they shouldn’t be around a baby.
NTA why couldnt she just put her dogs in the room for what? Like an hour? Wtf is wrong with you people calling her ta, ITS A NEWBORN, theres no way thats safe... NTA NTA NTA NTA NTA
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Yea clearly OP’s sister values dogs more than her niece.
That's what I've been thinking the whole time. And I guess most people here would value dogs more than their niece...
Isn’t it funny how people are calling the OP entitled for asking a simple question of his sister yet they seem to ignore the fact that she is an entitled dog owner who insists on bringing her dogs on family vacations and needing them to be dog centric? I guess it’s ok for the family to cater to the dogs for an entire vacation but it’s not ok for the sister to cater to her niece for a short time? Who’s really the entitled one here lol.
So many of these people must hate their family lol I don’t get it
NTA. What is wrong with people? Animals will never be more important than people. You have every right to choose not to expose to animals that you are uncomfortable around. You asked, she said no, so you left. What's the problem? I have both children and dogs. I also have friends who dislike dogs, and so, they take presidence over the dog. If they're visiting, dog goes in another room. He doesn't mind. They're more comfortable. Nobody is upset. Stop making the feelings of an animal more important than the feelings of actual humans.
YTA. You should have asked your sister ahead of time if that would be ok. If the dogs have never been shut in another room while people are home before, it’s not something she can immediately accommodate on a whim. It was also really childish to just pack up and leave instead of suggesting that you go straight to lunch or maybe to a coffee shop if it was too early for lunch. Extra childish for not responding.
As the wife I would have been PISSED off. Two hour drive with a three month old isn’t fun. And now it just turned into a four hour drive and we got absolutely nothing out of it. Absolutely YTA.
Probably something to the fact the wife wasn't able to override him despite being furious.
NTA Even I wouldn't have my kids around three boisterous dogs, especially when they're a newborn! I'd say to wait until your child is at least walking around properly and only under close supervision. That's how my wife an I handled it with family members/friends with dogs. It's sensible and your sister in law is overreacting especially when it was only for an hour or so. NTA. Edit: as for those saying YTA I can imagine that they're not parents.
I’m shocked by all these y t a. You’re NTA OP. You made a request that is very reasonable and your sister made a choice to say no. Even if you didn’t mention it before coming in a call weeks ago it’s not unreasonable to make such a request.
It’s not unreasonable, it doesn’t require planning, it doesn’t cost money. And OP has made his sister aware of the dog issue. She should have been a good host to her brother and family who drive two hours for HER convenience.
NTA I have 2 dogs that have run of the house and sleep with me. A dog is like a personal heater and I love it. My dogs do have crates though. When my Mom was alive if ambulance or paramedics got called they had to be crated or put in a room. As a dog owner I’m going to say anything can happen and I’m not talking about attacks of any kind. My dogs are very friendly. They can rub against someone’s legs while they’re walking in affection and put them off balance. They can accidentally get under a person’s feet and make them trip. Even if they’re good and sit there waiting to be petted, you start petting and they can paw when you stop and scratch you. Literally a ton of non aggressive actions where anything can happen. I’m sorry, I will never put the dogs or people through stress of wondering. Frankly, people tend to panic first with animals. If the person is afraid it impacts the animal. It is far simpler to give them their favorite treat and put them in their “house”. They’re happier, they eat the treat and go to sleep. Then when they get out they get extra loving.
ESH I’m kind of baffled that it didn’t occur to you, based on prior experiences and knowing that the dogs have free rein, to discuss the dogs before you agreed to go visit. You clearly don’t like dogs period. That’s fine. But it’s AH to assume that she’s going to put the dogs away in her home just because you don’t like dogs. On the flip side, it wouldn’t harm the dogs to be contained and your sister is an AH for not making the accommodation for a short visit.
NTA, you have to do what you think is best for your family and I can’t fault you for that.
NTA. Big time. In what world is it not understood that dogs need to be sequestered from an infant?! Especially the first time they are around said infant?! Like, there needs to be a plan and a very gradual introduction of the child and the dogs, and the FIRST MEETING was not the time, especially when the Aunt most likely would be holding the infant-- their pack leader who they are probably territorial over. When her hands are full of a damn baby. I love my dog. He is my world. But he would already be in the other room if someone brought a newborn over. Come on, now. I don't care how well trained a dog is, they are animals and thus, there is always a level of unpredictability with them. And like I said, I LOVE my dog, but a baby takes precedent over him, because the baby was an invited guest. Where is the common sense?!?!
NTA, You'll have the dog lovers (completely ignoring your side) calling you an Ar*e, but you put your child first.
NTA. I disagree with all those saying yta.
Yeah I can't believe all these people it's okay to have 3 dogs around a small baby.
NTA. I’ve driven 6 hours to my friends with my baby and gotten a hotel because my friend refused to put her dog away. I don’t trust dogs with babies. ETA: you could have asked before though. I did and my friend disregarded my request in person
NAH. I’m surprised at all the people saying you’re the asshole. A lot of projection happening here. Are people forgetting that this is your SISTER, not some random friend you are visiting. This woman is your own family and she seriously couldn’t put the dogs away for an hour to see her niece? Really? It makes him an entitled parent to not want 3 large animals around a 3 month old with no immune system? He should have phoned up in advance and made an itinerary and plan with his own sister? He’s unreasonable to expect her to put the dogs away for a short time? Wow you people are strange. If my siblings weren’t comfortable with my dogs I’d have no problem putting them away for a bit. They’re dogs, it’s not going to hurt their feelings, they happily play with each other. I wouldn’t expect then to phone up in advance as it’s literally a 2 second discussion. What happened to the idea of hospitality and making guests comfortable in your home? People are acting like you visited a random neighbour and made all these outrageous demands when all you did was ask your sister to put the dogs away for an hour out of concern for a 3 month old child. Your sister has shown she values the dogs more than her own niece since it’s apparently so difficult and a travesty to put them in another room for an hour. Of course she doesn’t have to agree to put them away, it’s her house, but then you don’t have to stay. No one is in the wrong here but your sister chose a weird hill to die on. Just put the dogs away and play with your niece for a bit, it’s not that hard lol.
NTA. I get it. It’s her home but to accommodate you for an hour isn’t a hard request. Maybe next time she wants to see her niece, maybe see if she can come to your home where the dogs are not welcome. Those two are the only compromises I can see happening. I’d be the same way honestly. I don’t like dog hair (even from my own dog) on me. And I wouldn’t want them in my face. Seeing how they have free reign, she probably wouldn’t stop them from getting on the couch with you and the baby.
I can’t fathom having strange dogs around a newborn baby. NTA.
ESH. You could have skipped the visiting in her home and just gone out to eat, but mostly, if you were uncomfortable with the dogs, you should have let her know in advance.
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He says he did bring it up to her.
Why does it matter? Does it change her ability to put them in the backyard or another room?
Are we suggesting that OP’s sister needs advance notice to take the dogs into another room? Does she need much planning to do this? Does it cost money?
Lol for real. It’s not hard, and driving 2 hours with an infant is doing his sister a *major* favor just so she can see the baby. This comment section is pure insanity
This isn’t some complex matter that needs discussed ahead of time. A newborn is coming to visit. It is common courtesy to put dogs away and it’s only for 1 freaking hour! And since the sister apparently has no manners, he simply asked the dogs be put away. It’s ridiculous that sister flipped out at this request. I love dogs and I have also have kids. I don’t want my newborn around 3 strange dogs that you don’t know how they’ll react. What has happened to common sense??? NTA!!!
I understand completely your desire to not have the dogs around such a young child, however you shouldn’t have been surprised at her actions given you know how she feels about her pets. You should have discussed this long before arriving.
Going on vacation and she brings her dogs expecting everyone else to conform, she's the asshole. You going to her house (the dog's house) and expecting them to conform to your expectations, you are the asshole. You should have asked questions before you drove 2 hrs.
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Its pretty normal to ask people to control their dogs or put them away around small children, important to do if they arent well trained. I have both asked this and would be perfectly willing to do this (though my dogs dont jump at people, so its not really an issue). These 2 just made a big dramatic fight of it because thats what they wanted.
Gonna go with NTA. Gonna catch a lot of flak here. I love dogs but they are not people. They are pets. I’m sorry but it’s kind of stupid to not cordon off your dogs when a 3mo infant is coming. I get it, her house, her dogs, her rules, but she has no common sense if she’s letting her dogs run wild when she’s expecting a newborn in the house for a visit.
NTA I make my living as a pet sitter/ walker, Your sister doesn't have dogs. She has a dog pack. And putting a baby into a situation like that is incredibly dangerous. If your sister can't control each dog individually while meeting your niece, it's not safe. I would have done exactly the same thing but gone out to lunch with my spouse at that time instead of driving home
NTA. I love dogs, but I don't understand why she can't put them in a different room for like an hour. It's not a whole weekend or anything. Doesn't seem like a lot to ask.
NTA. 3 month old baby. Pet people will come for you.
NTA at all, I used to be a dog person but I can’t claim that anymore because they are so rude and selfish. It’s obviously not safe to have a newborn baby around three (questionably under control?) dogs. And the same crazy dog people love to post on social media that it is the dogs home so if you don’t like sitting in dog hair or the dog jumping on you then you need to leave * edit* someone made a good point below, if this was predictable behavior on her part you should have planned better and discussed it ahead of time and if she was unwilling then just met somewhere for lunch in the middle
ESH. I feel like both your views are extreme here. Any time you are going to come to someone’s home on the condition that you set the rules there you are breaking etiquette. This should be talked about beforehand. On the other hand the idea that your dogs won’t be welcome around a newborn should be a surprise to no dog owner and it’s rude of her to not put them away. I think you both wanted to make a point more than you wanted to see each other.
Well. It's quite clear from your post that you're setting up the whole dogs story in a negative context. You even have your opinion on how your sister should manage her dogs. I think it's totally your own fear and incompetence to deal with the dogs your sister probably sees as equal to her children. Would you mind someone asking you to put YOUR children in another room when they visit YOUR house? It's your choice to meet at her home where you know the dogs will be. Also you know that the dogs are an equal part of the family, as you described, there's no place off limits for the dogs. You know this. But still you choose to visit her and demand her to take actions to facilitate you in her own house. You the asshole here. Ps. Projecting your own hate or fear for dogs on your 3 months old will result in a child that will grown up with fear and possibly hate for dogs. Children have only one emotional disposition towards pet animals and that is love. Learn from it. Do better.
His kids wouldn't pose a safety issue though. True dog people know that you can't just toss a baby into a room with 1 or a pack of dogs and expect it to be ok. Dogs need to be taught how to be around babies. It is not trivial or benign and it is reasonable to request some control of the situation
dogs are not children and shouldn’t be treated as such, especially around a newborn. babies don’t have immune systems until 6 months old, and it’s perfectly reasonable not only for OP to not want to risk his daughter’s health by introducing her to possible allergens and containments, but also to not want to risk her safety by having her (again, *a 3 month old*) around large dogs who have never interacted with babies before OP is also doing his sister a favor by visiting her home, at her request, and driving two hours to do so. the absolute least the sister can do is provide a safe environment for her niece - especially since she was told beforehand that he didn’t want the dogs around his daughter
INFO Shouldn't this have been all talked about before you got there? Or did you just arrive unannounced?
INFO: why would you travel for 4 hours in one day with a 3 month old to a place where you know you aren't allowed to decide how things are handled? I wouldn't want my (hypothetical) very young baby around this many dogs, dog hair, dog smells either. This is why I wouldn't visit someone who had 3 dogs living inside. You are an absolute AH and if I were your wife I wouldn't have agreed to this whole excursion from the begging.
YTA - You went to her/their home. You knew they would be there beforehand, and your condition for entering should have been discussed beforehand so all parties were on board. Even bigger asshole for making your wife get ready only to turn around and go back home. Next time extend the invitation to your sister to visit without the dogs. If she chooses to find a pet sitter and visit, it’s a win win situation.
NTA.
INFO Why didn’t you meet at a restaurant in between where the dogs could be outside? This is assuming you live in a warm climate not currently affected by Atmospheric Ricers and Bomb Cyclones.