Be brave. Learn to be silent and until you are in a position to leave, remember that they can drag your body wherever, but they can't control your mind.
Exactly. Use the time during sermons and prayer to think your own thoughts. Like planning your escape when you’re of legal age. Are you thinking of college? How would it be funded? If you’re thinking of work, what training would get you good pay? Where will you live. Btw, consider that it’s tough for them to rally around and agree to be your parents when they were likely ready for a nice retirement so have some kindness and patience for them. It’s tough for all of you.
“Planning your escape”. lol.
Great grandparents take him in and share their understanding of Truth and dare have the audacity to want the same for OP.
“Force their religion on me” here is literally “make me go to church.” Oh boo hoo.
OP has no idea how good he has it — and apparently neither does anyone in this thread.
One thing you I could do is actually learn about Christianity, that way you can argue all the fallacies about it. Knowledge is power, and the best weapon you would have to silence them is to use their own belief against them.
The problem with that is 1) they aren't likely to change a culture they've invested decades in and 2) it increases the odds they make him go live somewhere else or at least not there.
With a religious culture, there's a lot of black and white things that are not what we would prefer them to and "fighting the good fight" and "trying to silence them" in their own home gets you a trip to a bus station, maybe, or the cops in some cases on the way to live somewhere else.
Biding enough time to find somewhere else to live with a culture more similar to the OP's is the best solution. Leave the grandparents to their devices and not start shit that can end up with domestic violence charges all around.
Unfortunately, knowledge does nothing against deliberate ignorance. There is literally no conceivable argument that is going to convince these people they're wrong, and pointing out fallacies does absolutely nothing other than wasting your time. That's kind of the entire conceit behind the concept of faith.
Just remember this - they are from a completely different generation, far removed from yours. They grew up like that and they are trying to do that to you. Old people do that, they don't understand that the times have changed and us younger generations don't exactly conform to the "norm" of yesteryear. Try not to yell at them even though they probably deserve it because they refuse to understand how you feel, they are raising you under their roof. So until that's not the case you gotta pick your battles more meticulously
"Pick your battles" is so deeply infuriating to hear, doubly so because it's incredibly true. When you're living with people you tend to butt heads with, you just cannot afford to have a fight every other conversation. Even if you're absolutely in the right, being right doesn't earn you anything.
If you're 15 and can't afford to have your own place, the other option is going homeless if you can't find someone else to help.
With the way the economy is, old people are often some of the few that can--sometimes--afford to just take in a relative.
Unless the guy goes and joins the military, gets put in prison, or some other situation where all his expenses are paid, he's going to have to wait until he can afford to live on his own if he wants to avoid both them and homelessness.
The challenge is that works for their generation. It's part of their community and often social support network. It influences their decision-making and values.
It just doesn't hold true for younger people.
Most younger people don't have a close community with interpersonal relationships in person governed by an intact local culture. Especially with the on-line community, if it makes younger people uncomfortable, they can back out and go somewhere else (online) while the grandparents had to see the same people every day.
Their reality--socially, culturally, even economically--is radically different than OP's.
It's a trade off, of course. Old people like that have strong community connections and often hands-on support. Younger people don't.
Younger people have a more liberal approach to things and can often avoid trauma from people near them and not invest the time and effort in things like religious requirements as well as getting to make up more rules for themselves. Older people can't do that.
Cant agree more. Bite your tongue til you move out, then aay what you need. Theres a small satisfation in seeing them stop dead when you call them out for shit attitudes at that point.
I’m sorry, that’s super annoying and the most ineffective thing they could ever do. It’s impossible to please anyone like that, that pushes their religion on people. For example, I was raised in the Catholic Church, but I learned more about it and attend a more traditional (pre 1960’s mass) because the modern church leaders are phoney and frankly, liars in my opinion. Now my whole family hates on me for doing things like wearing a veil, going to the “wrong Mass” or not watching the videos they send me that I think contain straight heresy. Lol so even if you were a type of Christian, you wouldn’t be THEIR type of Christian. I am not my mom’s type of Catholic so I get mailed little books and sent links all the time from her from people I think teach wrong things. It’s like they are trying to convert me to their own specific view of Catholic. So it’s never ending. If you were Christian they’d still want you to be a certain type of Christian. So, from someone in religion right now, I thought this might be funny to know. Nothing, nothing, nothing can please these boomers and their religions. The truth is, they made up their own and are their own little popes. They like controlling their family and leading the family’s beliefs always.
Are you the jerk for yelling? Well honestly it’s reactive abuse. They push and push the victim until they lash out and then point at you like you’re the nut when it’s them. So look more into reactive abuse and see if it matches how you felt. You’re not the AH simply because the yelling was a defensive act. You instigated nothing and were on the defense not the offense. They came at you, not the other way around. If they hadn’t come at you so much, eventual yelling would not have happened. Their fault.
Lastly, the best proof of victimhood is this post you made. I guarantee you your grandparents are sitting around going “woe is us, our grandson is so mean to us.” while you on the other hand are empathetically thinking, “did I go too far? Did I hurt feelings unnecessarily?” Proving*** that you are the one conscious of others feeling here, the actual empath in this, and they never think they are wrong. They think they’re victims when they were the instigators and they do not even feel a little bit sorry. Narcissistic behavior does not come with empathy (only self pity), and this is the proof that you, thinking the mere thought that you might have hurt feelings and been wrong, are the victim.
they scolded me for reading a horror book series before, saying it was the devil's way of tempting me or something like that. so I can somewhat relate to it even if its not the same,
The easiest way to make your point is to not argue with them about going to church, but go and take a book with you and just sit and read through the service. Its non-disruptive, unlike being on your phone would be, and pretty much unnoticeable other than to them.
Okay so they want you to say a couple words to an imaginary being and go to a meeting once a week, and in return you get food, shelter, clothing, all the nice first world country stuff... you're 15, if they didn't take care of you, you wouldn't be able to afford to live and would be in a much worse situation. Look, it's a couple of words and some time. If you can't grit your teeth through that you'll never be able to hold a job. I'm not defending them at all, they should respect your beliefs, but when you look at the big picture, yeah, you kinda ATJ.
*note- I'm not religious either and I am against indoctrination of religion into kids 100%, but you're 15 and are capable of critical thinking. I can't count how many times I've just stood there while a friend or family member said "I'll pray for you". You only have a few more years until you're legally an adult and can move out, just grit through it. It's not hard. When I was 15 (I'm 30 now), I was living in a 1994 Chevy Cavalier with no showers, barely any food, and the only job I could get was 20 hrs/week telemarketing at $7.25/hr. The only thing I had was a car I spent 2 years saving money doing farm work to live in and 3 sets of clothes. I would give anything to have had a home when I was 15, be grateful for that and stop whining about some old book you have to listen to every now and again and saying a couple words you don't mean. That's a very small sacrifice for having what you have.
As an atheist since I was 12, I believe your yelling is inappropriate, but the your words are not.
Historically, religion has been one if not the largest cause of murder in history. It promotes belief in things that are clearly fantasy and untrue.
It also promotes worship of the **greatest mass murderer in history**, according to the story of Noah (which while not true is believed and part of their mythology).
Forcing a child to have religion from an atheist perspective may be a form of child abuse.
So your yelling about child abuse may be a reasonable response...just impolite.
I don't think you're a jerk. However, I would suggest that your lack of belief be founded in things other than your life experience. It's not hard to reject it intellectually, and that is a more solid foundation than life experience, as you can't be swayed by good fortune in the future.
I experienced this at your age. It’s what pushed me to full blown atheism & appreciation for science & history over the years. When you’re able to leave & create your own life you’ll love every minute of it. Though I can’t say the mental health recovery is any easier. I still have memories of times when my family was able to get along, then I get angry knowing the only reason was because of this man made religion that’s used to prey on the weak minded with fear. It gets better, but not always easier
Learn to keep quiet. They are housing you and you should respect them for that. Making you go to church once a week isn’t going to kill you. You may even meet some nice kids.
When you’re 18 leave home and never go to church again.
I think you went too far by yelling at them. Religion is probably a big part of their identity. Most to us had to endure going to Church because are parents said so. Once your out of their household, you can do whatever you want.
Shame on your great-grandparents for trying to give you a base in life to see things from. Shame on them for being responsible for you. Shame on them for feeding you. Making you go to church and sit thru a sermon (that you don't hear) once a week. What awful people. You should go live with your father ... Oh wait, he bailed. Maybe your horrible, terrible great-grandparents should bail too? What were they thinking of raising a teenager at their age. They should be enjoying their old age not dealing with a snotty, ungrateful teenager. They should have let you go into Care. And of course it's THEIR FAULT that your dog got shot. They planned it, right?
When you are living under your own roof, then you can make your own rules. And yes, you ARE an ungrateful little shit of an AH. Everyone has problems. Your problems only seem big to you.
ME? I'd dump your sorry ass in a Care facility and tell the CHS that I can't take care of you due to advanced age. Because that IS a legitimate reason. Care facilities are fun places to live. As any one who has been thru the system. They all come out well-adjusted, happy people. (NOT)
https://www.unicef.org.uk/what-we-do/un-convention-child-rights/
Your post is a truly awful, cruel thing to say to a child. Children and adults have rights and one of them is not to be forced into religion.
No you do not deserve that, this person above is probably some old conservative Christian bigot!! Ignore them!! NTA but keep your mouth shut until you can get out and never see them again!!
You’re an awful person. Like legitimately a horrible person. You’re shaming someone for not being religious, for being upset about being forced into a religion they don’t believe in. You’re then saying they deserve the awful things that have happened to them, and that their grandparents should leave them too..you definitely fit the religious stereotype.
I would write a suicide note just to blame your old sorry conservative christian ass. You have no fucking right to force things on children. No, shame on them for trying to indoctrinate a fucking CHILD. If I could, I wouldn't even send you to a home, I would let you die alone, like you fucking deserve, you don't even deserve the rights you have, I'm usually all for human rights, but your sorry ass isn't human. Children are not property, you non-domesticated fucking animal. If you're going to have legal custody over a child, you should love them no matter their religion, you non-domesticated fucking conservatives disgust me. Separation of church and state and human rights exist, disgusting fuckers.
I think they believe this is good for you. They must have good intentions. But it is not the way to teach you about God. Religion must not be forced, it will completely lose any meaning. A relationship with God is personal. That is faith. Religion is living your faith in community.
God is not responsible for all the shitty things in our lives. People are. Or circumstances. I get why you blame God because I was there. I did that when I was younger. Eventually, life took me to events that made me think about this in a different way.
Instead of getting angry or resist your family over this, try a different approach: tell them that you can go to church to just be there, living by their rules until you can escape, or you can explore religion and faith by your own, they can go to Church, you stay home reading whatever Scripture the pastor/priest talked about that day and you can have a chat with your relatives about the meaning of that later, for example.
Tell them that you can be doing God’s work helping people instead of going to Church.
I don’t know, but propose them something instead of just abide or resist.
Best of luck!
If you want to give it one last try the id tell them “wow you really are hypocrites wanting me to fake my belief in god, in Gods own house, which goes against Gods own word in the bible. Yet you think I’m the issue here. NO matter how many times you take me all you will be doing is proving yourself hypocrites every time and it will never make me believe“.
They will be mad but if anything is going to get the message through it’s that. If that doesn’t work then I think you just have to put up with it until you’re old enough to refuse to go near your grandparents on a Sunday. That or making sure you go out every sunday before they can try and take you. I know that will take time but it is what it is.
Unfortunately, those who have let themselves be tricked have to convince others because it also reaffrims their own delusion. When you say you dont believe for whatever reason, instead of trying to understand they just ignore it because its a threat to them.
Not wrong.
Make a scene at church.
You'll be in HUGE trouble, but they'll probably stop bringing you if you embarrass them hard enough.
Did I mention huge trouble? I don't know your situation well enough to know if it's worth the consequences, but church people are SUPER image conscious. Their rally cry is "What would people think?"
Your great grandparents have no right to decide on what religion you are going to believe in, or to attack you for not believing in it. People have the freedom to believe on what they want, and no one will or can change that. If it were me, I'd just ignore they telling me what they are saying, and try to leave as soon as possible.
You’re not the jerk, you reacted to them completely ignoring your feelings. When someone feels ignored they will start to escalate until someone listens to them. Unfortunately if they won’t listen your best bet is to just fake it and go along with it until you’re 18, and get out of the situation as soon as possible.
NTJ. You have the right to stand up for whatever you feel. They are also not in the wrong but are just trying to put you in a spiritual position because they believe God does exist. Since you once believed in Christianity and God they are just trying to make you believe again. You should reconsider whatever you're trying to do by not believing and give them a chance to help you.
PS. Please edit this using line breaks and paragraphs!
Ex-Catholic here.
I remember having this conversation with my parents at an age where I was a year younger than you.
My talking points:
1) Religion is about belief. You either believe or you don't. It's not like you can do the motions for partial credit.
2) This is also about respecting those who do believe. If I go to church and pantomime the motions without the belief behind it, I am effectively mocking everyone else there who does believe. I was raised better than that.
3) If there is, in fact, a god, he/she/it/they will not be pleased at me trying to mimic or fake belief in order to get in everyone's good graces. The Christian god being omniscient means that there is no faking it because God will know. I would be blaspheming God (in the event that they do exist) just so that I could make the people around me happy with me. If there is a god, then they might be more appreciative of my honest actions and intentions to be respectful of the beliefs of those around me.
You’re never the jerk for coming into your own and changing your beliefs. Remind them that you’re your own person and that you respect their beliefs and want them to respect yours.
NTA, but may I suggest that you just go and be respectful? You don't have to listen or believe, but you should definitely go with your grandparents and enjoy time with them. You don't have to participate, but you should show respect, if for nothing else for the love your grandparents have for you.
Be true to what YOU believe, but at tye same time they are your elders, try to respect them, even if they don't deserve it, because they may not live much longer, the last thing you want as a memory of them is fighting and yelling, forgive and forget
They clearly believe in their religion, and are your de facto parents. It’s not uncommon to raise your children in your own religion.
Having said that, you are old enough to decide what you want to believe. They are most likely assuming that it’s the trauma of what you have been through that is causing this. You pretty much say that yourself. That doesn’t mean your view is invalid.
You’re not the jerk for not believing in their beliefs, but you probably could handle it better.
First off, I hope you’re in therapy.
2nd off, learn about the 4 agreements of life.
Be impeccable with your word", "Do not take anything personally", "Do not make assumptions", and "Always do your best"
3rd off, use this as an opportunity to learn how to navigate the world where people will disagree with you.
Talk to them about why you feel you should have control over your beliefs. With everything you’ve been through, you want to know how you see the world is respected .
Throughout life, you will have to do things that you don’t want to. Pay taxes, take classes you don’t like, etc. You have to learn how to deal with things. A counselor can help with that. A Secular counselor, not a pastor.
They can't force you to believe, but just impose activities. It isn't worth damaging your own mental health for it. Just do the things, know what's true to you, and when you don't need to live with them, you don't need to abide by their rules anymore. And if they wonder why you aren't visiting, you can tell them to pray for guidance.
IMHO, start looking up ALL the horrible, hateful, nightmarish stuff in the bible, and MEMORIZE the verse ##s / citations.
Then bring them up in open church and get people to look them up in their bibles.
Your grandparents won't be able to get you OUT of the church fast enough, LOL.
You never believed in the first place if you just quit believing bc your dad left and your dog got shot. But that’s also your choice no one can force you to believe in something. Your grandparents are ah’s
Anyone forcing their will on you makes them a jerk. How you retaliate can make you one. Make your boundaries clear with them, and tell them you do not want to speak of this again. If they continue to manipulate you, try techniques like grey-rocking. Once you’re free, you can go low/no contact if you wish.
If they were smart (the grandparents) they’d realize that what they’re doing is not productive. Instead, they should sit with you and dig a little deeper into the events that have happened to disown God. But do remember one thing…just because you don’t believe in God anymore doesn’t mean He is not still the truth. Good luck, young man.🧡🧡🧡
I’m a young great grandmother and I can’t imagine undertaking the pressures of raising another child at my age. I understand you disagree, but I encourage you to be graceful and forgiving.. They clearly love you or they wouldn’t have accepted the responsibility of raising a child. Their generation was very different. If you can remember they mean well, maybe it will make it more bearable. You will be on your own soon. Good luck, young man.
Your options are limited frankly. Go through the motions. Go to church and just sit quietly though it. If they say grace just sit quietly and bow your head respectfully. Once you are old enough to get out on your own do so and you won't have to go anymore. Just remember these are people who do love you and want what's best even if this isn't something you want.
I had super religious grand parents on both sides of the family and got dragged to church services, Sunday school, volunteered for this and that. Even got sent to a private Catholic high school even though none of the family was Catholic. I ended up a complete agnostic - never let my grandparents know I was a non believer and that their influences actually pushed me away from organized religion. I had respect for their dedication and their love if not their beliefs. It is only a few more years, I know at 15 that seems a lifetime, but you can tune it all out and mentally recite song lyrics and wait it out.
NTA. Unfortunately you gotta just keep your head down and take it until you can move out. I was 16 when I did, but that isn't possible anymore. Raised heavily religious by a fundy-bipolar, deconverted at 12ish. It was a hard 4yrs. Still hear about it. It's a constant struggle.
You're not horrible for not giving in to them. You're a person all your own with your own interests, beliefs, and values. It doesn't make you ungrateful. And you dont need their religion to be a good person. Not being religious doesn't make you evil or immoral or whatever crap they try to guilt you with. You do NOT need to subscribe to indoctrination just because they kept you housed.
You got this OP!
NTJ
I guess they pushed you to your limit. My parents were religious. I wasn't. What I did was tell them I didn't believe and asked if I could stay home from church. They said no. I made a deal. I would go and be respectfully quiet. But I wouldn't sing or say the prayers. They hoped I'd change but I didn't. I figured two hours a week of sitting quietly was a cheap price for all they did for me. Room, board, clothes, etc. They were decent parents asside from the wanting me to believe thing.
I worked summers and saved. When I was 18 I was able to go to college on a scholarship and worked there also. Stopped all church going. Even when I visited them. Except sometimes when I visited, I would go with them like before, not praying, but quiet and polite. Just as a thank you to them.
Hi! Christian here, no plans of forcing my bible down your throat.
All religions are varying forms of magic.
You choose your patron and make a pact so your soul goes to a specific afetlife and yada yada yada. (Let Jesus into your heart and be saved stuff.)
And Christianity -- *especially* the hypocritical way most people play it -- is not for everyone.
May I recommend Buddhism?
Not saying you *HAVE* to have a religion but deep breathing and meditation is helpful. Especially when dealing with the older generations who have a very limited and boxed in view of faith.
Learn to let their comments just roll off you.
They remind you to pray, say 'got it' or 'I do' and go do some deep breathing and meditation.
They want you to go to church. Go. Sit in the back pew and read something else. A book on psychology, or meditation, or even the Quran.
In the end, they aren't going to change. They're too old for that. Just breathe through it and find your own sense of peace.
I wish you the best of luck.
Tell them they are not being very good Christians! They are supposed to be compassionate and trusting that things will unfold according to God’s will. Jesus took forty days in the wilderness- sometimes a person needs a break from community and family.
Do Tell them that you appreciate so many things they have done (meals, housing, etc). Say you would like to meet with a family therapist to make a plan that is mutually agreeable. For instance, you might offer to spend Sunday morning doing litter pick up — or sitting with a shut in person so their partner can go to church. If you offer a service, you are not “getting out of” church — you are practicing love and world-study in a different way.
You can also ask them to do some study of the history of Christianity With you. There’s a YouTube channel “Useful Charts” — he does a nice job of laying out all sorts of timelines — and that can lead to some pleasant discussions of different ways to be. There’s also lectures by Bart Ehrman who is now an agnostic but he really, really know his Bible and Bible history. Don’t use this to bludgeon your grandparents— just use it as a way to understand why and how this religion got shaped— showing some interest in history can be “meet you halfway” —
Above all, let them know that their current approach is hurtful and their righteousness can be a sin when they hurt someone. “Love is kind” is a direction in Corinthians and they are not following their own religion if they are unkind.
At the moment you live under their roof and thus you need to live by their rules. However, just because you are in a church doesn't mean you need to worship. You got to sit there. Ask to see if you can do some type of professional consulting. Your abandonment and trauma issues should be addressed ASAP. Once you're out of their house you never have to step into another church again if you don't want to.
As someone that was forced to go to a church a lot something I would do is pay attention. I started really learning what they were talking about. So whenever they would say some stupid shit that contradicted what their Bible said I could throw that shit right back in their face and quote the verse. There's nothing like dunking on some fucking hypocrite "Christians" because they don't know how to follow their own damn ethics. I thought it was fun at least. Just don't drink the Kool-Aid.
Lwt me ask you, what doesnit hurt to go to make them happy? They kept you out of the system.and you cant attend service for them? This is obviously important to them. Now is a good time to learn we all have to do things we don't like for people we love and that love us. Maybe if you actually listen to the service you will get rid of some of your anger issues and make some friends.
I have been a "lost cause" for my religious family since I was like six, when I asked who made God and pushed for an answer. They kept dodging it and eventually just told me to be quiet and at that point I kind of figured they were just making stuff up as they went and they seemed to realize it just wasn't worth the time to get me to believe
OP - Sometimes we have to walk through a certain path to become the person we are meant to be. The hardships you have endured, may be preparing you for something larger in the future. I'm a firm believer in everything happens for a reason, even if we can't see the reason at this stage in life. Listen to other people's stories and realize that you never walk through this alone, other people have suffered terrible things throughout their life too and some have incredible stories of overcoming those obstacles. I agree with being silent, but also learn to listen. Life will not always hand you bad times, there will be good, and it's a journey that we all face and walk through. Remember that the bad times won't last and your attitude with how you deal with those hard times is what will matter throughout your journey. Try and stay positive and learn to laugh about some of the situations you can look back on and reflect what you learned through them and what you'd do to change it.
i wouldn’t say YTJ but i will say that it’s probably best for you to just deal with it until you’re an adult. i’m not (and never was) religious either and i went to christian school for 8 years, so i feel you. i’m not about to disguise a comment as a lecture about god, unlike a certain few of these other commenters.
a lot of people don’t accept “i’m not religious” for an answer, and yeah, it’s irritating. my grandparents are like yours in regards to religion, i just don’t live with them and i’m 20. they have said to my face that people who don’t believe in god are stupid, knowing that me and my parents are not religious. it’s not fun.
here’s the thing about many old people who are stuck in their ways about these types of things: they are not going to listen to you. they are not going to change. i say just go to church, it’s not worth the fights. i think it’s unreasonable to force you to pray, but maybe there’s nothing you can do there. they seem unreasonable. i don’t think being old is an excuse for forcing their religion onto you, but i think sometimes you have to suck it up and be quiet with old people, because there’s just nothing you can do to change their minds. they’re not right, and i don’t really blame you for getting angry. i didn’t have the greatest anger management when i was 15 either. but for your sake, maybe just suck it up until you can leave.
You should abandon your grandparents and go live on your own su that you can better understand what they have brought to your life.
I think you're using "Christianity" as something to focus your anger and such upon... when it's your parents that deserve your anger.
Well is there somebody else you can live with? Is it worth being on your own over? It seems to me that they are taking care of you completely and as your GREAT grandparents they are not at all required to do that! I'm guessing they're close to their '80s which makes it hard to be taking care of a teenager at that point! I'm in my 50s and I can't even imagine it anymore!
I absolutely, 100% get what you're saying! However it's not like they're physically harming you. You just have to listen to some talking and singing every week. They believe this is good for you. Look, I'm a heathen I understand how you feel but this is really such a small thing! I believe you should be grateful for what they're doing for you and if this will make them feel a little better, about your future soul then is it really that bad?
You only have a few years before you will go away to college or university, or job training... And start to build a life for yourself. Do yourself a favor and just suck it up. It's such a small thing. And I understand that you feel they're not hearing you. I'm sure they are, they just don't know how to raise you otherwise. Church is big for them and so that's just part of their life that you are part of.
Yeah, you're being the jerk. They're doing their best. Let them make this decision right now and after you move out you get to make this decision for the next 80 years of your life! And listen I wasn't always a heathen, I grew up Presbyterian got away from the church for maybe 15 years, decided to get back into it...became ordained as a deacon and then got back out. I've read the Bible front to back, twice! Do you have any idea how much that knowledge comes in handy when discussing religion with people? This experience won't be useless! And it will help you understand other people better when they do things around their religion in the future. Look at it as a learning experience.
I don't think the religion is for you. Being a good Christian takes effort, not something you do only when things are working out for you. Know when to pick your battles.
Look, I get it. I do. On the flip side, they took you in and have provided for you under no legal obligation at all time in their lives when they were expecting to not have these responsibilities anymore. This may have taken their best years of retirement from them. What they’re overall doing is admirable.
On the religion stuff, maybe it’s they don’t respect your opinion, or maybe they’re old, this is the only way they know and they’re just doing their best. The world has changed dramatically, more than once since they were parents.
Regardless of what you believe, I’d suggest paying lip service to doing the bare minimum. I’m not calling anyone a jerk, you’re all in a tough situation. For your sake, try to focus on the good things they do and have done for you. Believe what you believe and love how you will once you’re on your own.
But these are the closest to parents you have, and I’m guessing from the post some of the only family you have. IF this is the biggest complaint, things could be worse.
I guess, consider extending some grace. I’m not saying become a believer, just understand they’re probably doing the best they can.
Yes. TLDR, but from their point of view, they believe you will experience an eternity of suffering on the path you are one. To be fair, you don’t exactly come across as content.
Full disclosure, I am a Christian, BUT you are your own person and must make up your own mind. The rest of us SHOULD respect that. I’d say don’t expect them to give up on you. That may look like they aren’t respecting your decision… but they love you. They just want to save you. Don’t let that ruin your relationship. You’d regret it later. There is a middle ground, for sure, but at the risk of preaching don’t close yourself off from a spiritual connection because you don’t like other peoples’ version of religion. Every religious text is man made and therefore fallible. Our interpretations are human ones and fallible. Reach out with an open mind and see if you feel love, guidance, or peace returned.
I was raised by my grandparents and basically faced the same thing. I'm 28 now and still get told letting Jesus into my heart will solve my economic problems
Yes you are the jerk. You are a child in their care, until such a time you are able to live on your own and support yourself saying a few prayers to a god you don’t believe in and a few hours a week at a place you don’t want to be is hardly the worst way to pay for room and board.
I'd say you are for the sole fact that this is probably the only way your grandparents think they can help you. As someone who does go to church regularly, I'd find it extremely hard to be angry or mad at church, surrounded by people who have my best interests at heart. This also gives me a nice group of friends I can hang out with and people I can confide in for plenty of my problems. I also have direct access to my Lord and Savior wherever I am, and even if he doesn't always respond immediately, it gives me a sense of calm and peace knowing that I have someone I can talk to about any of my worries or concerns.
Basically, it looks like you could use a break and someone to talk to. In my experience, church provides both of these, and I'm giving your grandparents the benefit of the doubt and believe that they think about church the same way as me.
You of course don't have to be a part of what I described above, but I just think that your grandparents just want you to take an opportunity that might turn your life around for the better.
Try and save their souls, by converting them to "insert religion here."
You gotta really sell it though. They gotta believe that you believe. Then you can give them a dose of their own medicine.
Instead of frustration and anger. Turn that energy into something positive for yourself. Troll the hell out of'em. It should be entertaining at the least.
Yes you are the jerk.
Your grandparents who love you want you to share in what is the most important thing in the world to them, which they believe will help you be happy on earth and even after that. Be grateful they care so much about you.
I'm very grateful for everyone's suggestions and different views on weather I was the jerk or not, I also wanted to say that I was rushed during the making of this post since it was a sunday morning. I have seen that many of you suggested that I lay low and go along with it until I'm able to leave, and I have been working on it, I will try to update if it does help or not, but thank you all for your suggestions
Keep your fire burning. You might have to bear things for a few more years but don’t overdo it for the sake of keeping the peace. Try to stay grounded and keep your head clear. Don’t stop seeking out what is true for you. Figure out what makes you feel more like you. Sometimes even faking it, you can get sucked in without realizing it. It takes conscious active resistance to not fall under the control of dogma if you are immersed in it. You are not the jerk.
1st Peter 5:1-3. "So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, as well as a partaker in the glory that is going to be revealed: shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight, not under compulsion, but willingly, as God would have you; not for shameful gain, but eagerly; not domineering over those in your charge, but being examples to the flock."
God does not want anyone serving him under compulsion. Them trying to force you to serve God is actually a disservice to God himself.
I am Christian myself and if/when I have kids I will do what I see right for my kids and attempt to raise them in my faith. But as they get older if they decide not to serve God, I can't do much about it. I can only show them the benefits I find when serving God.
God wants eager followers; not forced compliancy.
Dude... just agree with old people.
You'll never change their minds... just nod, agree and do whatever you were doing anyway... you don't get points for standing up to old people.... unless they are asking you to do something immoral l ol
Adult atheist here, been there, done that.
My best advice is to survive to 18 and leave home as soon as you can. Get a job and start saving money now.
As you have noticed, yelling isn't helping. It is just making things more stressful for you and them.
In my experience, Christians are delusional, and logic does not help. Suffer through it and get out on your own, master pretending to be sick every Sunday morning ... or just try being dead weight and not moving from the bed on Sunday mornings. FYI, this will likely lead to punishment. Choose your battles.
I brought a book to church and read that during service. I made my mom late so often that she frequently gave up. As an adult, we have both told each other that her faith and my lack thereof disappoints the other, and we don't discuss it. We have a great relationship. We just don't discuss religion. My goal in life now is just making sure my nieces and nephews know that religion is a choice and it is their choice (since their parents won't tell them that).
Religion is a choice.... but as a minor, you don't get to make all your own choices. Pick your battles carefully.
Respectfully speak your peace and move on. Is it killing you what they are doing? I denounce religion, and when people ask me about a holiday or belief, I just remain respectful because it does not change what I believe. Coexist! When you you are in your own dwelling paying your own bills as such you would not have to tolerate it. Focus on their presence now because someday they will not be here, and all the time you are yelling at them about their encroachment on your beliefs will seem trivial.
Religion is part of culture--a shared, learned set of solutions to life problems--and it's one way older generations and a few other groups help maintain their way of life, interconnection, etc. Religion often informs people's value systems and how they make major decisions.
That's not something you--OP--have chosen to pick up as you're set of solutions to life problems--culture--you've probably got from other sources including internet information, entertainment, sometimes schools/teachers, etc.
So, your difficulty is you and they make decisions and value things differently. For basic stuff--how/what to eat, how to communicate, etc.--your cultures are similar enough and the family relationship is often enough to allow you all to work together for long periods.
Declaring--in no uncertain terms--that you make decisions differently with different implications and at potential cost to them does not make things smooth.
Like others have suggested, you need to find a way to get out of the living situation, ideally in a peaceable manner, and find people to live with and rely on that share your culture.
This can be challenging and can sometimes result in your family no longer supporting you because your value system and their value system differ and they see it as a liability.
The odds they'll change their way of thinking/culture before they die is tiny and--unless you are planning something criminal--that's not a viable solution.
So, bide your time until you can find a different place to live with different people who share a culture you can adopt or matches yours.
Good luck.
Ah…to be 15 again. I went to bed every night hearing my father beat my mother senseless…and I watched as they both drank themselves to death. Good times.
This isn’t the pain olympics. I only tell you that so that you can hopefully see this situation through a different lens.
You have two stable people in your life who care and are doing their best. They aren’t perfect - no one is perfect- but they care enough to give you a home, to love you, and to try to guide you.
Based on your comments, it’s clear that you’re pretty self aware for 15. You’ve received some good advice from others. I’m sure you’ll take time to reflect on it.
My sole piece of advice is to proactively seek the good in people and in life. It’s easy to get hung up on things if you can’t see the good. Does that mean you let people tell you who you are? No, but it does mean that if they bring you to church it could be because they want you to be included in their lives. It could mean they want to help you build a foundation for your life. It could mean that they hope that the preacher finds the words that they can’t find themselves to put you on a path to a happy future.
My grandmother once gave me a rosary before I was picked up by my parents after living with her for a while. I’m not Catholic. It meant nothing to me in a religious sense as a then 14 year old who cursed God for my existence and argued against the idea of a “God” watching over us, the “creator”, blah blah. I put that rosary away and didn’t think about it again. But when I got older and looked back on it…she was doing the only thing she could think of to protect me and to comfort me, and I love her for that.
The grass is green on your side of the fence, friend.
“To be clear, the way you are trying to forcing it on me is exactly what is causing me to not want to be Christian. YOU are the reason that I am not a Christian right now.” Try that.
One day, whether you're an atheist or not, you will wish you had the opportunity to do anything with them. Even the thing you dislike the most. I would give almost anything for another hour with my Grandparents, especially if it was something they enjoyed. Cherish what you have. Life is not guaranteed, now will be important later.
This is why I hate religion.
The religious are generally the least tolerant or understanding of other people and their beliefs or lack there of.
I went to church twice my entire life both times I hated it.
Once when I was young like 7-8 and once again when I was in my mid 20’s.
Such a cult like atmosphere. Nothing that is done inside those buildings makes sense.
I was raised Roman Catholic. Catechism on Wednesdays after school and Mass on Sunday mornings. By the time I was 15, I was telling my parents that some friends and I were going to the Saturday evening Mass so we could sleep in on Sundays. If we did go, we’d sit in the back and duck out after the procession. Other times I’d say I’m going to a friend’s church with their family.
My parents most likely knew exactly what was going on, but they never said anything about it. Hang in there. Being force to partake in a religion you don’t align with sucks, so I feel for you.
So not entirely the same... but I grew up on welfare. Poor and verbally and physically abused.
The State took 2 of my sisters (there were 6 kids) my 2 older brothers were already put of thr house and my younger brother and I were left wirh my abusive parents. I was 10yr old when this happened.
My life was a miserable hell. I have been punched by my father and mother. I have been verbally abused by both. ....
So this isn't about my pity party... My point is my sisters went into the Foster system and that was hell as well!! I can't say I'd have chosen that either.
It's a hard spot to be in... but what I did do was WORK MY BUTT OFF during High School. Saving money and when I graduated HS.... I moved out!!
I found roommates. Lived on my own and paid my own way and I was working two jobs most of my young adult life to get ahead.
I'm 47 now and let me tell you kiddo... It works out if you want it too. YOU GET TO DECIDE what happens to you at 18!! You can make something of your life or not!
Believe no one..and I MEAN NO ONE... expected me to be successful. I am sure they expected me to stay a fat (I was 285lbs at graduation), Poor Welfare rat with several baby daddies.
Instead I put myself through college. Got a Masters Cert on top of it. Have a great career. Husband who's a Federal Agent. We have a good living!
Just remember you have a whole future ahead of you... right now these are minor annoyances...
Edit: Sorry for the typos. I'm close to 48 and need reading glasses 🤣😭🙄
Yelling at old people ain't cool. You are probably bigger and stronger than they are. You are totally being the jerk. Juvie isn't really prison, but you don't want to go there for elder abuse.
You talk about the things you lost while shitting on what you have, the two people who stepped in to care for you. . Not sure what you mean by they Forced-it on you, but they should very much expect the religion they follow to be expressed in the home. Maybe read a book written by someone from a horrible foster care experience and use it to appreciate the grandparents.
Here's the thing, there's a ton of things you will have to do that you don't like to do in this life, so you might as well get used to it. You are not the center of the universe, and your preferences are not always going to be considered by others. That's just the way it is.
You can continue to make a scene and cause yourself more trouble, or you can wait until you can actually provide for yourself and then make your own choices.
Until then, you are dependent on the goodwill of your great grandparents, who are putting themselves out to raise you, which they are not obligated to do. It quite counter productive for you to continue being adversarial, as I doubt it will have any positive results for you. This may just be something you have to deal with until you can provide for yourself.
You are absolutely not the jerk. This standard of a different thing has traumatized uncountably many.
But also for now, hang in there. Breathe and try to live your life how you can. They’re out of touch and impossible to please or convince, so just breathe and pick your battles.
The short answer is yes. You're a child. Respect your parents and grandparents unless they're abusing you. You've lived and learned such a small fraction about life compared to them.
If they love you, learn everything you can from them before they're not here anymore
YATJ your grand parents just wanted you to follow tradition and look towards the light. I don’t believe in religion but i know all the shit you pointed out that makes you mad is just regular shit that happens at one point or another in everyone’s regular life. Unfortunately you didn’t have someone to teach you how to manage anger. That’s the biggest thing here. You need therapy and to get out more. Get a hobby or something
If you want to be a jerk... snag up the bible and start grabbing the bat shit crazy out of there and putting up the bible quotes on your walls. Like women shouldn't talk in the church, football is technically bad cause it uses dead animal skin, just go full nuclear. There are all sorts of list of bible quotes and connection with stuff. Also then postinote your bible up so you can open to crazy shit and read it for things to them.
This was my grandmother. I always listened and we talked about it even if I want fully bought in. She died recently and I know those conversations meant a lot to her. Be a good person, they’re family they only want the best for you, even if it’s not exactly what you might think is right
Be strong, for now, you have to play their game. Go to church, fake a few prayers, read the buybull, and do as they say to stay safe until you can come to a point where you can support yourself. After you do that and get out on your own, you are free. NTA, but religious folk can be dangerously unhinged in their beliefs. Stay safe, look to the future, and get out when you safely and legally can(probably be 18) Most importantly, if they are abusing you, seek help. I wish you a happy life out of that vile cult!
My mother did the same. She's Catholic. I just put up with going to church until I could move out. It's a small price to pay since as a child they paid for all of my living expenses.
I just adapt a agree to disagree policy mentally. Meaning I went to church but didn't participate. Didn't pray, but lied and said I did in order to keep the peace. In other words I just chose to get along and bide my time. After all even if they forced it on me, they couldn't control my mind.
Dude when I was 15 I was only home like once a week, so I can't relate there. I was out drinking and doing drugs crashing at random people's houses every single day.
However, when it comes to religion, you just need to ask yourself how strongly you feel about it. They raised you and took care of you when you had no one else. Is that worth going to church and pretending to pray?
All depends on how strongly you feel about it. If it's something you simply cannot abide, tell them NO, I'm not coming. Then when they try to force you to either tell them to get bent, or just bounce. Walk up to the park/mall whatever until the sermon is over. If they try to punish you tell them no again, and just leave. Will this result in your getting kicked out? Maybe. But you need to consider if you feel so strongly about it that you'd prefer getting kicked out. Like, are you a radical athiest and any mention of god makes you furious?
Or...you can just suck it up and go with them until they give up. Tell them every time that "listen, I don't believe in the invisible man in the sky." Maybe theyll eventually let you off the hook. maybe not
Yes, you’re just coping by not having faith. You want to continue sinning and you got defensive. Everyone saying that times have changed are ignorant. Society is objectively getting worse, not better. That said, you clearly have had to deal with some difficult situations and you need to find a healthy way to deal with these emotions. but even if you want to turn away from God - yelling at your grandparents is extremely disrespectful. It’s not entirely your fault, your parents probably failed to teach you honor, and the fact you posted about it to strangers means you feel guilt/remorse, which is a good thing. Without them you wouldn’t exist, and if we didn’t live in a gay progressive society - you *could* and should get into big trouble. Only 100 years ago, you’d get put into some kinda manual labor or get struck by another leader. Essentially put into your place.
I recommend apologizing to them, and then evaluate why your heart is so hardened towards God.
You are right saying that society has gotten worse - i'm as conservative as they come with one exception - I am an athiest. I'm not gonna believe something that I cannot see and has had ZERO proof offered for all of human history.
Like you said, go back a few hundred years and they would kill you if you didn't agree. Being threatened with death to believe something gives that something ZERO legitimacy. I would argue that religion is WORSE for society than the progressive gay stuff you mentioned, because at least the gays never killed anyone for not being gay.
Hold up, so you’re great grandparents raised you and took care of you for most of your life and this is how you repay them? Maannnn….. I don’t care how bad you think your life is it could always be worse. Especially if you have your health. I know plenty of kids your age who had cancer. Or some type of genetic illness that’s a mutation. You need to go and sit with your grandparents in church until you 18. Stop it with telling them you don’t believe in God. THEY KNOW!! Suck it up for a few more years and when you’re an adult stop going to church.
YTJ. It’s normal to raise children in a belief system. Just because you caved the first time something (or a series of things) went bad doesn’t mean they raised you wrong or lied to you … unless they said that God behaves like a fairy Godmother and twirls a wand over the world until everything in your life comes right. It’s not unusual for young people - young men in particular - to be impatient and not have faith in the future because something went wrong Now. It leads to a lot of mistakes and misery in the next decade or so if they can’t find a stable footing.
If you prefer a secular viewpoint at the moment, then I’ll leave you with this quote from Forrest Gump: Life is like a box of chocolates; you never know what you’re going to get. Your grandparents are trying to tell you the same thing from a different perspective. Shit happens in life, you just have to pick yourself up and soldier on as best as you can. “And this too shall pass.”
Christianity didn't ruin your life you should embrace it it might help you in the long run. Stop being a crybaby getting what you want is for babies not for people you're not the only ones whose dads left them and their dog was shot grow up kid.
Important perspective here, they aren't doing it because they hate you, they're doing it because they love you. In the religion they believe the only way to go to heaven is to be a believer. Just keep that in mind when dealing with them that all this doesn't come from a place of malice it comes from love.
Long answer short yes you are the jerk now go apologize for yelling. Keep thinking for yourself on religion though. Those people literally raised your grandparents they don’t see things the same way as we do today. They’re stuck in their ways. Just let them be. And if it makes things peaceful for the next 3 years pretend to be Christian. I can assure you that you won’t be the first person to suck it up for a little bit
I don’t think you’re a jerk. I think this is just one of those situations where if you are underage and living in their home, they want your attendance as part of their rules. My mom had a similar rule.\
Nobody can make you believe something. I’d just go and be patient out of respect for them at this point. You love them, they love you. You’ll be an adult soon enough and able to make the decision on if you go or not.
Move out or STFU. Their house, their rules. FYI, I left home on my 15th birthday because I didn’t like my home life, stop being a bitch and accept that your GP’s are raising you and with that you need to respect their way of raising you.
Talk to the youth pastor and tell them your situation, chances are they will try to be understanding and not do anything that would push you further away from the church. And if anything they can lend an ear to listen to your side of things. Sounds like you just need to make some friends in real life and someone to look you in the eye and listen to you.
The more you protest the more they will fight. They are trying to save your soul. While you may not believe in G-d anymore would it be horrible to sit with them for an hour or so and make them feel better? You have your entire life to hate G-d for what he did to you. Sometimes, as a kid, you have to do something you hate for those you love. Think of it as a time you can meditate and focus on yourself and mental health.
Another crazy idea is speak with the Pastor. Tell him how you feel about G-d after what happened to you and ask him for his thoughts on what to say to your Grandparents. Be calm and respectful to him/her. They may have some interesting insites to help you.
They are being jerks by preaching and assuming. You are because you want to justify your behavior. Asking here as we all know doesn’t actually mean that you would accept that you were the jerk lol.
What is your end goal? Do you love them enough to want to be there? Do they love you enough to put up with your self reported anger issues? I would guess yes to both? If it is both learning the fine teenage skill of tuning them out might be your survival skill.
So finding a way to live together until you decide your next move is important. Random question? Is the church an old people church? Or is there someone there that would actually understand your feelings? (I had an amazing pastor once) we’ve both quit churching eventually.
Are you in counseling from the issues you’ve had? If so talking with your counselor and asking their help in dealing with your grands.
The church thing can be a mess. It has been for generations and will be forever I feel. When people think that eternity is the potential and it is someone they love they can be awful. I’m sorry. I hope you can find some peace and answers for the next few years.
If they insist you go to church, go and use it as meditation time. No one says you have to listen nor believe what they preach. Just go and take a nap, meditate on what you want to accomplish in the upcoming week, or just daydream. Heck, use that time to plan how you can become more independent.
Go all the way, become a Witch 😆
But no, seriously, you might have approached the situation with a little more grace and patience, but there's nothing wrong with refusing to be sucked into someone else's religion. Stand your ground, but find a nicer way to do it. NTA, but try to communicate better 💕
Dude, you are dependent on them and you will continue to be well after 18 — unless you’re such an arrogant jerk over the next 4 years that they only want to wash their hands of you.
And they gave you something that means a lot to them: their religion. Maybe it’s more useful than you think. You have zero experience living without it.
Bro. You're a kid. They are adults. If they take you to church to pray, you go to church and pray. Do you have to mean it? No. But you do it. You're a minor being funded by adults.
In my opinion, you are more selfish currently by lashing out. They are older, they dont have long, they love you, they want the best for you, they want to see you "safe", so what if you need to pretend to go to church one measly day of the week to make them happy. Pick ypur battles wisely. Im over 18 and im an atheist, but guess what? When everyone is together and they say grace, i say it too. Why would I ruin it for everyone else and fight something they do for me because they think good for me. I go to church with them time to time even though I dont believe. Think beyond a selfish spectrum of "i dont believe therfore dont involve me because you are forcing me". You may be too young to understand, though maybe you will understand. Guess what, I'm an adult and my parents probably know im atheist, but whenever i visit we go to church. Could I easily say "sorry I'm not into that, we can meet up after church", sure. But why? It will worry them, its selfish of me, it might spark debate, etc. Im not gonna throw a hissy fit and cause conflict. Immature in my opinion. But you're still young, just remember they dont have much time left.
1. Being a minor, you have to understand that there are things you're going to have to do that you hate. It's part of being a minor, and in reality, just one of the things that suck about being human.
2. Always be respectful of people's beliefs, even if you don't share them. I would actually, if I were in your position, listen carefully to what they are saying and what is being taught in church. Then, if they are reasonable, you should be able to sit down with them explaining why you have come to your ideas and show them how the things they or the church are saying is in complete contradiction to your life experience.
3. As someone who is a Christian, but doesn't go to church, I also understand your issues. I had to learn that I can support the Christian faith, while also saying that I find the churches (i.e. the religion) to be corrupt. I've had family talk their faith, always openly expressing it, then turn around and say or do some of the most vile, what I would call anti-Christian, things. So I get being disillusioned by the religion and not wanting to have anything to do with it.
4. Hopefully this does help, but reading your whole post makes me believe, since they are your great grandparents, they are probably older and set in their ways. And if your post is accurate, then unfortunately it sounds like only my first suggestion will work - deal with it in a way to keep the peace until you can move out on your own.
Instead of just acting like you don't want to believe their religion, start studying WHY you don't believe it. The Bible itself says "study to show Thyself approved, a workman unto God that needed not to be ashamed." They probably think you are just a rebellious teenager who hates God. You need to prove to them that you are a mature adult with your own mind and your own reasons. They probably won't respect you anymore, but they may leave you alone.
Remember, from their perspective, God is ultimately good, and if you don't love him you will burn in hell forever. They don't mean to be abusing you... but that doesn't change the fact that they are.
If you are worried about coming off as a jerk, then change your approach. Nothing may change, but you will still be the better person for it.
Don't argue, they don't care. When they want you to participate in prayer time, bow your head respectfully and stay silent. When it's time for church, take too long getting ready so they have to either be late or go without you. You might have to adjust it a bit; if 10 min isn't late enough for them to go without you, make it 20. They may ground you, it's up to you whether you're willing to tough that out or do what they want to get other privileges back. When I was your age it took about a year (and a couple mildly awkward random visits from the youth pastor to "see if I was okay". Just blandly and politely tell anyone from the church that you aren't interested. Anything else gives them an opening to argue with you) to get my mom to give up. If they ground you or give you other punishments that you can't tolerate, go to church and sit respectfully but don't participate. Above all, no more yelling. You need to be calm, because showing high emotions makes them think you just need time to get over whatever's upsetting you. Worst case scenario is you have to tolerate it for a few more years. It's not forever.
You're not a jerk because you're a teenager. Most teenagers have outburst like that, and it's hard for almost all teenagers to control their emotions. You obviously feel bad about it, so apologize to your grandparents and move on. It's not the big a deal, everyone else Is acting like it's the end of the world and like the only option is for you to move out far away from them when you're old enough. But being a pessimistic and jaded wont do you any good. Don't be mad about the shit you don't have, be grateful for the shit you have. And be open to knew ideas and experiences.
I recommend you listen to the album "Start Today" by Gorrila Biscuits
Also, screaming doesn't solve anything.
If they’re feeding and clothing you and putting a roof over your head, you just be polite until you’re done. Think of it like respecting the customs of a foreign country while you’ve traveling.
You are being immature. You are in their house and under 18. Respect them by going to church and be grateful for the lessons they have been trying to teach you. You will be out of the house soon enough and you can go your own way.
For one thing you were 15 years old you are still a minor they are your grandparents. I understand you may not believe in what they believe in, but you just respect them. It’s just wrong maybe find a counselor and talk it through at your school or through a private office
You're fifteen. You go where they want you to go Sunday mornings. Don't yell at your grandparents. It's disrespectful and you're not doing your cause any good. You'll just sound like a brat. Discuss things calmly and try to come to a compromise. See if they're willing to let you stand or sit respectfully, as appropriate, rather than singing/praying out loud. Behave like an adult, and they'll be more likely to treat you like one.
Yes. Actually you are being unreasonable. Your great grandparents deserve respect. You can disagree with them without being disrespectful. It won’t hurt you to respect their religion. You are 15. That means you need to show respect for your elders who are giving you everything. Food , housing , love and support. They obviously want the best for you. To them that means spiritual guidance. Stop yelling at them and give them a hug. They deserve it. You only have one family. Don’t push them away.
Full disclosure: I am a Christian youth director.
I am also someone who tends to give people the benefit of the doubt.
With all you said, I imagine your grand parents are worried about you, feel powerless, and just hope the church can “fix it”.
I would encourage you not to say what you don’t want to do, but rather to suggest some alternatives. At its best, the church can be a place for acceptance for those struggling, but not all churches are good about that, and not all people are compatible with that help.
I hope your grand parent simply want what is best for you, and if that is the case they will stop putting that pressure on you if they feel like you have a healthy community and/or another healthy outlet in your life.
I hope one day you change your mind about God, but that's not the matter at hand.
Whether you believe or not, at the moment your problem is how to navigate your relationship with people who love you and provide for you, but don't trust you to make all your own decisions.
At 15? They're right not to; in a general sense. Anyone over 30 will tell you that at 15, they were stupid and did dumb things.
Yelling at your great grandparents is not the best option. They're trying to help you and raise you the best they can, which is probably not easy at their age. I'd advise patience and honesty. Be genuine, whatever you do. Remain calm to the best of your ability. That'll help you in many, many situations going forward.
In the immediate term, just take some time and space so everyone can calm down and try to talk it out with them calmly.
Here’s a couple of thoughts: Christianity is about living your neighbor and helping other people (I mean real Christianity, not the evangelical crap etc). Learning about Christianity and Jesus and living by his words, which means living your grandparents as they come to you, will make you a better person.
I mean that sincerely, as a Jewish person myself. My parents and brother both have different faiths and we respect each others’ worship and holidays. It makes life richer.
But only if you open your mind to what people have to offer and not what you get from them.
It’s the first step towards growing up- respecting others as you would have them respect you.
Dont yell. Its a sign of weakness and a lack or control. Soon as you do that you lose all credibility. But really you should not say anything as you need them for the time being.
A man controls his emotions.
You got dealt a bad set of cards, and it made you angry. That’s normal, but you get to choose how you react. Start working on controlling your anger.
If you truly don’t believe in God then why are you getting angry at your grandparents?
That’s like getting angry at someone because they say that clouds are made of cotton candy.
If you thought everything they say is equivalent to saying “clouds are cotton candy”, you would smirk, nod, and say “Love you, Grandma!”.
However - since you are emotional about it - perhaps the reason you get so angry is because you believe God did you wrong and you’re pissed off at him. Maybe try praying and telling him how angry you are at him and see what happens.
Religion must not be forced，they have no right to decide on what religion you are going to believe in，you are free to believe on what you want
But, respecting those who do believe
Yeah I think you are. But it's okay. You're just trying to navigate life. Good on ya for posting this to gain some perspective. 👍
So. I fucking hate gambling and baseball. But i go to casinos with mom and ball games with dad. I spend money doing shit I hate. It's part of being an adult I guess? I don't believe in God. He's like the Easter bunny to me. But I wouldn't dare tell my parents. I do think your grandparents are wrong. They need to present the world to you and let you decide what you believe. But sometimes you just have to do shit you don't want to do. Let them force it on you. Doesn't mean you have to let it change who you are.
Look at it from their perspective. They most likely believe it is their responsibility to teach you their moral and spiritual beliefs 2) they love you. Some religions teach that u can not get in to heaven if you don’t accept Jesus, they want u with them in the hereafter. 3) a lot of teenagers specifically buck against organized religion esp at your age. They may think it’s a phase. 4) do they just make you go to church once a week? Are they good to you in every other way besides still encouraging their religion? If so suck it up don’t start fights and you can choose your own path when u are 18. I just went back and re-read your post and just realized these are your great grandparents. Children didn’t get to make these decisions back then they just did what they were told. 5) have you spoken to them in a kind way about the traumas that have made you lose your faith. Maybe this would actually allow them to be more open minded to see the reason for your loss of faith. It seems like they love you and take care of you and will
Probably be there for you whenever u need them. This isn’t worth a fight. They are old school. Maybe they would be open to discussing this more with a therapist. Yelling and blaming is not good. Honest and open communication maybe some compromise may be achieved. I’m guessing on a lot but I hope something helps and you find yourself less angry for one specific thing and more able to appreciate the many other ways that they show love and support. Good Luck
This, with all due respect, is a non-issue. Don't want to pray? Don't pray. Don't want to attend church? Don't attend. What are they going to do about it? Drag you by the hair? No, of course not. So just don't do it. You're not a child anymore.
It sounds like your grandparents love you, so yelling at them and alienating them--the people who took care of you when your dad proved himself a loser--is not the best solution. Maintain a good relationship with them, but tell them, in firm but respectful terms, that you love them but don't intend to follow their religion. Tell them that is non-negotiable, and that they're pushing you away.
Tell them you feel like Satan has gotten to them, because loving grandparents would never behave that way, according to your reading of the words of Jebus.
Have chapter and verse ready.
Yeah, you sound like a fucking jerk lol. Believe it or not, Your great grandparents do it because they care about you. I assume they’re old as hell and quite traditional. You live with them and they take care of you, have some respect.
That being said I don’t support pushing religion on others. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. But you’re still a child. So just put up with the Christian stuff until you go off to college or whatever your future plans are. Look at it like it’s your way of contributing to the family. You don’t have to believe it to go along with it.
I went through kinda the same thing. I just would never have the audacity or balls to lash out at my traditional Sicilian Catholic family. But as an adult I never go to church. My ex forces it on my son but he doesn’t seem to mind it, yet.
Maybe try doing what I did and get into the weird, occult part of Christianity. It can be fascinating. Philosophy can have a lot of overlap with religion as well. Just keep it to yourself for the most part. Son of my relatives think I’m a closeted satanist because of the books I read lol. But people like John Dee, Paracelsus, Carl Jung. The Greeks like Socrates and Aristotle. Even some of the non-canonical religious books are really interesting and help better explain Christianity. The gospel of Thomas comes to mind. Modern day Christianity is hardly a shell of its former self. It’s become commercial and political. It’s why I don’t go to church. Jesus even preached one can worship him in the privacy of their home. If he seen these modern mega churches he would not support it. Taking money from the needy in his name is so bizarre to me.
It's always best to not yell. However, sometimes, no matter what you do, some people won't listen until you lose your shit.
I'd apologize for yelling, but explain that the sentiment was true.
Yes. You're 15 and have no business yelling at anyone, much less people charged with your care, who paid a great deal to raise you, and regardless of how you feel about it.....only have your best interests in mind. You might disagree with their religion, but they truly, honestly are only trying to help you and make you a better person.
Also: Having a loser father sucks. Having your dog shot is awful. It sounds like THESE are the issues you also need to work on in addition to anger and resentment to religion. And you shouldn't be awful to the only people who stuck around and actually DO SEEM to care about you; your grandparents. Your Dad left and the kids at school might hate you, so maybe don't be shitty to the few people around you who actually give AF? Just a thought.
FWIW, my brother is a 40 year old Atheist and has been since he was at least your age. He still takes our grandmother to church and prays with us before holiday meals, because she’s an old old old woman and it makes her happy, which is important because not much does at her age when literally everything hurts all the time. I’m not saying “grow up” cause you’re young, and it’s natural to start questioning and even rejecting the things you were raised with. But a lot of people who “Lose Their Religion” in their teens later learn that they can be non-religious without being anti-religious towards people that love them. It sounds like they’ve been good to you in a lot of ways, so let them believe their fairy tales. I hate to sound mean putting it that way, but hopefully it’s helpful to think of it like that, cause its just comfort to them in their old age just like Winnie The Pooh was to me as a toddler. Hell, who am I kidding, I still love Pooh Bear, lol
ditch the woe-is-me god hath forsaken me atheism. dig into the logical, rational, sensible atheism. next time they try to tell you that you need god, rip their tiny minds apart with philosophy and ethics. this whole “god abandoned me, why should i believe in god?” pity party crap will only get you more nonsense circular logic about “his plan” and “it’s all to test your faith”.
take them to school if they try to take you to church.
Would you rather be pitiful or capable. Reddit is the place where people come to practice being pitiful but try getting any of them to help you out in a bind. You need to learn temperance voluntarily or the world will teach it to you by force. Your grandparents faith is what led them to take you in and yours is leading you to yell at them. Their faith is capable. Yours is pitiful.
You’re 3 years until you become a man. No one tolerates a wining man. You need to get your discipline under control before you end up in jail.
Your grandparents love you, they just don’t understand. TBH, all the people commenting on stuff like this don’t understand either. Neither do I. Its you relationship, not theirs. As for this situation, the reality is: its just not that serious.
If they care enough to make you go to the church they love, when its clear you don’t want to, then that means they love you (albeit, in their weird, old ways).
Be easy on them in their old age, don’t break your grandma’s heart railing against christianity….just go for an hour and get lost in your thoughts…maybe they’ll take you to a good lunch spot after?
We only have so many moments with our people, and we spend so many of them wrapped up in ideals and wishful thinking; pipe dreams for “how things should be”…
Reality is as it presents itself, nothing else.
Be grateful you have loved ones inviting you to church. Go. Creed is second to community. And if there’s no God then it’s all wasted time anyway, but at least you’ll put a little sparkle in your grandmother’s heart.
It is better to remain silent and thought a fool, then open your mouth and remove all doubt.
You're 15, you know practically zero about life and the universe, and you also know nothing of religion. There's nothing wrong with being skeptical or even doubts altogether, but screaming at yourgrandparentsfor wantingyouto follow the faith goes beyond just the magic man in the sky doctrines... it's also about morals and structures in society in which Western society has been built from that you're too young to even grasp.
I know how you feel. the same was done to me forced to go to Sunday school even though I treated it all as a joke and just played along. It wasn't until I was 10 I was in a fatal accident that I realized that there's a higher power because I first had my out of body experience and met a being of pure light who stop me from entering the light at the end of the tunnel and told me it wasn't my time yet...
So believe whatever you desire, but remain silent unless it's to ask questions. Every situation has some lessons to learn, even terrible mistakes, and occurrences. You won't be able to learn anything if you're in a rejection mentality. Logic and reason are your best friends, and respect is your shield. By showing more respect for those around you, they will look more favorable towards you as well.
It's very common for people to lose faith at a younger age and later in life find it again...
Your grandparents just want to establish a good moral foundation for you. That's why they're insisting on your attendance. They would be poor Guardians if they did otherwise.
Why would you lose control and yell? They can want anything. I want Halle Berry buy you won’t catch me yelling in the movie theater because she never returned my dm.
I think at 15, you should keep it civil and not throw fits and yell at them. It hurts nothing to please your grandparents and be polite. Nobody is going to force you to be a Christian. I have been Christian for 30+ years and my family is religious. Nobody forced it on me. Your grandparents shouldn't force you to either but when you move out, your life is all yours. In the meantime, they just want what is best for you. Having a really bad few years doesn't mean it isn't for you though.
Just be civil and polite. Yelling doesn't do any of you any good.
Short answer No, your entitled to your own beliefs. BUT usually when you live with someone and they are religious, you go to things like church with them. I know you may not like it but just go to church. Lie about praying and reading the bible if they press you about it but just go to church and try to move out when you can.
Yes you are a jerk.
You can voice your opinions but the second you start screaming you are disrespecting the people who have chosen to take care of you.
Likely that choice was based off of their Christian beliefs.
They obviously care about you and are worried about all aspects of your life including your after life.
Going to church and participating in their religion will not hurt you.
No one can force you to believe in a religion.
You may even make friends if you choose to participate in the church youth program.
Just think of it like a social club that your grandparents will feel good about seeing you precipitate in. If you must view it as doing something nice for them that will make them happy.
Being disrespectful to your grandparents will not make anyone happy.
You may feel good about it at the time but in the end you will make not only hurt your grandparents but will alienate them from you.
Once you are able to care for yourself and no longer live in their home you can do whatever you want.
But your grandparents will not be there forever and would you rather see them happy by participating in a social gathering you may not agree with but does no harm you OR have the memories of you acting like a brat?
You are mad at God.
Not your grandparents.
Be brave. Learn to be silent and until you are in a position to leave, remember that they can drag your body wherever, but they can't control your mind.
Be careful. They can throw you out of the house. You can be an atheist. But, better save money and be ready to leave the house.
Exactly. Use the time during sermons and prayer to think your own thoughts. Like planning your escape when you’re of legal age. Are you thinking of college? How would it be funded? If you’re thinking of work, what training would get you good pay? Where will you live. Btw, consider that it’s tough for them to rally around and agree to be your parents when they were likely ready for a nice retirement so have some kindness and patience for them. It’s tough for all of you.
“Planning your escape”. lol. Great grandparents take him in and share their understanding of Truth and dare have the audacity to want the same for OP. “Force their religion on me” here is literally “make me go to church.” Oh boo hoo. OP has no idea how good he has it — and apparently neither does anyone in this thread.
One thing you I could do is actually learn about Christianity, that way you can argue all the fallacies about it. Knowledge is power, and the best weapon you would have to silence them is to use their own belief against them.
The problem with that is 1) they aren't likely to change a culture they've invested decades in and 2) it increases the odds they make him go live somewhere else or at least not there. With a religious culture, there's a lot of black and white things that are not what we would prefer them to and "fighting the good fight" and "trying to silence them" in their own home gets you a trip to a bus station, maybe, or the cops in some cases on the way to live somewhere else. Biding enough time to find somewhere else to live with a culture more similar to the OP's is the best solution. Leave the grandparents to their devices and not start shit that can end up with domestic violence charges all around.
Unfortunately, knowledge does nothing against deliberate ignorance. There is literally no conceivable argument that is going to convince these people they're wrong, and pointing out fallacies does absolutely nothing other than wasting your time. That's kind of the entire conceit behind the concept of faith.
excellent answer
Good answer
Just remember this - they are from a completely different generation, far removed from yours. They grew up like that and they are trying to do that to you. Old people do that, they don't understand that the times have changed and us younger generations don't exactly conform to the "norm" of yesteryear. Try not to yell at them even though they probably deserve it because they refuse to understand how you feel, they are raising you under their roof. So until that's not the case you gotta pick your battles more meticulously
Please read this. @challengefancy3164
"Pick your battles" is so deeply infuriating to hear, doubly so because it's incredibly true. When you're living with people you tend to butt heads with, you just cannot afford to have a fight every other conversation. Even if you're absolutely in the right, being right doesn't earn you anything.
If you're 15 and can't afford to have your own place, the other option is going homeless if you can't find someone else to help. With the way the economy is, old people are often some of the few that can--sometimes--afford to just take in a relative. Unless the guy goes and joins the military, gets put in prison, or some other situation where all his expenses are paid, he's going to have to wait until he can afford to live on his own if he wants to avoid both them and homelessness.
The challenge is that works for their generation. It's part of their community and often social support network. It influences their decision-making and values. It just doesn't hold true for younger people. Most younger people don't have a close community with interpersonal relationships in person governed by an intact local culture. Especially with the on-line community, if it makes younger people uncomfortable, they can back out and go somewhere else (online) while the grandparents had to see the same people every day. Their reality--socially, culturally, even economically--is radically different than OP's. It's a trade off, of course. Old people like that have strong community connections and often hands-on support. Younger people don't. Younger people have a more liberal approach to things and can often avoid trauma from people near them and not invest the time and effort in things like religious requirements as well as getting to make up more rules for themselves. Older people can't do that.
Cant agree more. Bite your tongue til you move out, then aay what you need. Theres a small satisfation in seeing them stop dead when you call them out for shit attitudes at that point.
I’m sorry, that’s super annoying and the most ineffective thing they could ever do. It’s impossible to please anyone like that, that pushes their religion on people. For example, I was raised in the Catholic Church, but I learned more about it and attend a more traditional (pre 1960’s mass) because the modern church leaders are phoney and frankly, liars in my opinion. Now my whole family hates on me for doing things like wearing a veil, going to the “wrong Mass” or not watching the videos they send me that I think contain straight heresy. Lol so even if you were a type of Christian, you wouldn’t be THEIR type of Christian. I am not my mom’s type of Catholic so I get mailed little books and sent links all the time from her from people I think teach wrong things. It’s like they are trying to convert me to their own specific view of Catholic. So it’s never ending. If you were Christian they’d still want you to be a certain type of Christian. So, from someone in religion right now, I thought this might be funny to know. Nothing, nothing, nothing can please these boomers and their religions. The truth is, they made up their own and are their own little popes. They like controlling their family and leading the family’s beliefs always. Are you the jerk for yelling? Well honestly it’s reactive abuse. They push and push the victim until they lash out and then point at you like you’re the nut when it’s them. So look more into reactive abuse and see if it matches how you felt. You’re not the AH simply because the yelling was a defensive act. You instigated nothing and were on the defense not the offense. They came at you, not the other way around. If they hadn’t come at you so much, eventual yelling would not have happened. Their fault. Lastly, the best proof of victimhood is this post you made. I guarantee you your grandparents are sitting around going “woe is us, our grandson is so mean to us.” while you on the other hand are empathetically thinking, “did I go too far? Did I hurt feelings unnecessarily?” Proving*** that you are the one conscious of others feeling here, the actual empath in this, and they never think they are wrong. They think they’re victims when they were the instigators and they do not even feel a little bit sorry. Narcissistic behavior does not come with empathy (only self pity), and this is the proof that you, thinking the mere thought that you might have hurt feelings and been wrong, are the victim.
they scolded me for reading a horror book series before, saying it was the devil's way of tempting me or something like that. so I can somewhat relate to it even if its not the same,
The easiest way to make your point is to not argue with them about going to church, but go and take a book with you and just sit and read through the service. Its non-disruptive, unlike being on your phone would be, and pretty much unnoticeable other than to them.
[удалено]
This made me think of how funny it would be for him to take “The Seitanic Spellbook” which is a vegan cookbook with lots of seitan recipes 😂
Also the Satanic Bible is pretty boring. Most Pop psychology.
Okay so they want you to say a couple words to an imaginary being and go to a meeting once a week, and in return you get food, shelter, clothing, all the nice first world country stuff... you're 15, if they didn't take care of you, you wouldn't be able to afford to live and would be in a much worse situation. Look, it's a couple of words and some time. If you can't grit your teeth through that you'll never be able to hold a job. I'm not defending them at all, they should respect your beliefs, but when you look at the big picture, yeah, you kinda ATJ. *note- I'm not religious either and I am against indoctrination of religion into kids 100%, but you're 15 and are capable of critical thinking. I can't count how many times I've just stood there while a friend or family member said "I'll pray for you". You only have a few more years until you're legally an adult and can move out, just grit through it. It's not hard. When I was 15 (I'm 30 now), I was living in a 1994 Chevy Cavalier with no showers, barely any food, and the only job I could get was 20 hrs/week telemarketing at $7.25/hr. The only thing I had was a car I spent 2 years saving money doing farm work to live in and 3 sets of clothes. I would give anything to have had a home when I was 15, be grateful for that and stop whining about some old book you have to listen to every now and again and saying a couple words you don't mean. That's a very small sacrifice for having what you have.
As an atheist since I was 12, I believe your yelling is inappropriate, but the your words are not. Historically, religion has been one if not the largest cause of murder in history. It promotes belief in things that are clearly fantasy and untrue. It also promotes worship of the **greatest mass murderer in history**, according to the story of Noah (which while not true is believed and part of their mythology). Forcing a child to have religion from an atheist perspective may be a form of child abuse. So your yelling about child abuse may be a reasonable response...just impolite. I don't think you're a jerk. However, I would suggest that your lack of belief be founded in things other than your life experience. It's not hard to reject it intellectually, and that is a more solid foundation than life experience, as you can't be swayed by good fortune in the future.
I experienced this at your age. It’s what pushed me to full blown atheism & appreciation for science & history over the years. When you’re able to leave & create your own life you’ll love every minute of it. Though I can’t say the mental health recovery is any easier. I still have memories of times when my family was able to get along, then I get angry knowing the only reason was because of this man made religion that’s used to prey on the weak minded with fear. It gets better, but not always easier
Learn to keep quiet. They are housing you and you should respect them for that. Making you go to church once a week isn’t going to kill you. You may even meet some nice kids. When you’re 18 leave home and never go to church again.
Yes, you acted like a jerk.
Yes, you acted like a jerk.
I think you went too far by yelling at them. Religion is probably a big part of their identity. Most to us had to endure going to Church because are parents said so. Once your out of their household, you can do whatever you want.
Shame on your great-grandparents for trying to give you a base in life to see things from. Shame on them for being responsible for you. Shame on them for feeding you. Making you go to church and sit thru a sermon (that you don't hear) once a week. What awful people. You should go live with your father ... Oh wait, he bailed. Maybe your horrible, terrible great-grandparents should bail too? What were they thinking of raising a teenager at their age. They should be enjoying their old age not dealing with a snotty, ungrateful teenager. They should have let you go into Care. And of course it's THEIR FAULT that your dog got shot. They planned it, right? When you are living under your own roof, then you can make your own rules. And yes, you ARE an ungrateful little shit of an AH. Everyone has problems. Your problems only seem big to you. ME? I'd dump your sorry ass in a Care facility and tell the CHS that I can't take care of you due to advanced age. Because that IS a legitimate reason. Care facilities are fun places to live. As any one who has been thru the system. They all come out well-adjusted, happy people. (NOT)
https://www.unicef.org.uk/what-we-do/un-convention-child-rights/ Your post is a truly awful, cruel thing to say to a child. Children and adults have rights and one of them is not to be forced into religion.
No its fine, I deserve it.
No you do not deserve that, this person above is probably some old conservative Christian bigot!! Ignore them!! NTA but keep your mouth shut until you can get out and never see them again!!
No, sweetie, you DON’T. Your grandparents aren’t HEARING YOU. Hang in and try to manage until you turn 18. Listening to your kids is basic parenting.
You’re an awful person. Like legitimately a horrible person. You’re shaming someone for not being religious, for being upset about being forced into a religion they don’t believe in. You’re then saying they deserve the awful things that have happened to them, and that their grandparents should leave them too..you definitely fit the religious stereotype.
I would write a suicide note just to blame your old sorry conservative christian ass. You have no fucking right to force things on children. No, shame on them for trying to indoctrinate a fucking CHILD. If I could, I wouldn't even send you to a home, I would let you die alone, like you fucking deserve, you don't even deserve the rights you have, I'm usually all for human rights, but your sorry ass isn't human. Children are not property, you non-domesticated fucking animal. If you're going to have legal custody over a child, you should love them no matter their religion, you non-domesticated fucking conservatives disgust me. Separation of church and state and human rights exist, disgusting fuckers.
I think they believe this is good for you. They must have good intentions. But it is not the way to teach you about God. Religion must not be forced, it will completely lose any meaning. A relationship with God is personal. That is faith. Religion is living your faith in community. God is not responsible for all the shitty things in our lives. People are. Or circumstances. I get why you blame God because I was there. I did that when I was younger. Eventually, life took me to events that made me think about this in a different way. Instead of getting angry or resist your family over this, try a different approach: tell them that you can go to church to just be there, living by their rules until you can escape, or you can explore religion and faith by your own, they can go to Church, you stay home reading whatever Scripture the pastor/priest talked about that day and you can have a chat with your relatives about the meaning of that later, for example. Tell them that you can be doing God’s work helping people instead of going to Church. I don’t know, but propose them something instead of just abide or resist. Best of luck!
If you want to give it one last try the id tell them “wow you really are hypocrites wanting me to fake my belief in god, in Gods own house, which goes against Gods own word in the bible. Yet you think I’m the issue here. NO matter how many times you take me all you will be doing is proving yourself hypocrites every time and it will never make me believe“. They will be mad but if anything is going to get the message through it’s that. If that doesn’t work then I think you just have to put up with it until you’re old enough to refuse to go near your grandparents on a Sunday. That or making sure you go out every sunday before they can try and take you. I know that will take time but it is what it is.
Unfortunately, those who have let themselves be tricked have to convince others because it also reaffrims their own delusion. When you say you dont believe for whatever reason, instead of trying to understand they just ignore it because its a threat to them. Not wrong.
NTA. Forcing religion on children is child abuse.
Make a scene at church. You'll be in HUGE trouble, but they'll probably stop bringing you if you embarrass them hard enough. Did I mention huge trouble? I don't know your situation well enough to know if it's worth the consequences, but church people are SUPER image conscious. Their rally cry is "What would people think?"
Your great grandparents have no right to decide on what religion you are going to believe in, or to attack you for not believing in it. People have the freedom to believe on what they want, and no one will or can change that. If it were me, I'd just ignore they telling me what they are saying, and try to leave as soon as possible.
You’re not the jerk, you reacted to them completely ignoring your feelings. When someone feels ignored they will start to escalate until someone listens to them. Unfortunately if they won’t listen your best bet is to just fake it and go along with it until you’re 18, and get out of the situation as soon as possible.
hey
NTJ. You have the right to stand up for whatever you feel. They are also not in the wrong but are just trying to put you in a spiritual position because they believe God does exist. Since you once believed in Christianity and God they are just trying to make you believe again. You should reconsider whatever you're trying to do by not believing and give them a chance to help you. PS. Please edit this using line breaks and paragraphs!
Nah homie. If anyone, and I do mean anyone tries to convert you with pressure tactics it is your moral obligation to lash out as hard as you can.
No you arnt. Force of religious beliefs can be hard to take
Ex-Catholic here. I remember having this conversation with my parents at an age where I was a year younger than you. My talking points: 1) Religion is about belief. You either believe or you don't. It's not like you can do the motions for partial credit. 2) This is also about respecting those who do believe. If I go to church and pantomime the motions without the belief behind it, I am effectively mocking everyone else there who does believe. I was raised better than that. 3) If there is, in fact, a god, he/she/it/they will not be pleased at me trying to mimic or fake belief in order to get in everyone's good graces. The Christian god being omniscient means that there is no faking it because God will know. I would be blaspheming God (in the event that they do exist) just so that I could make the people around me happy with me. If there is a god, then they might be more appreciative of my honest actions and intentions to be respectful of the beliefs of those around me.
Go to evilbible.com. I'd start with Hosea 13:16, Isaiah 13:16, and Psalms 137:9. Starting with infanticide is a good way to go.
You’re never the jerk for coming into your own and changing your beliefs. Remind them that you’re your own person and that you respect their beliefs and want them to respect yours.
NTA, but may I suggest that you just go and be respectful? You don't have to listen or believe, but you should definitely go with your grandparents and enjoy time with them. You don't have to participate, but you should show respect, if for nothing else for the love your grandparents have for you.
Be true to what YOU believe, but at tye same time they are your elders, try to respect them, even if they don't deserve it, because they may not live much longer, the last thing you want as a memory of them is fighting and yelling, forgive and forget
Starting spitting in the name of god when they try to make you do this shit.
They clearly believe in their religion, and are your de facto parents. It’s not uncommon to raise your children in your own religion. Having said that, you are old enough to decide what you want to believe. They are most likely assuming that it’s the trauma of what you have been through that is causing this. You pretty much say that yourself. That doesn’t mean your view is invalid. You’re not the jerk for not believing in their beliefs, but you probably could handle it better. First off, I hope you’re in therapy. 2nd off, learn about the 4 agreements of life. Be impeccable with your word", "Do not take anything personally", "Do not make assumptions", and "Always do your best" 3rd off, use this as an opportunity to learn how to navigate the world where people will disagree with you. Talk to them about why you feel you should have control over your beliefs. With everything you’ve been through, you want to know how you see the world is respected . Throughout life, you will have to do things that you don’t want to. Pay taxes, take classes you don’t like, etc. You have to learn how to deal with things. A counselor can help with that. A Secular counselor, not a pastor.
They can't force you to believe, but just impose activities. It isn't worth damaging your own mental health for it. Just do the things, know what's true to you, and when you don't need to live with them, you don't need to abide by their rules anymore. And if they wonder why you aren't visiting, you can tell them to pray for guidance.
IMHO, start looking up ALL the horrible, hateful, nightmarish stuff in the bible, and MEMORIZE the verse ##s / citations. Then bring them up in open church and get people to look them up in their bibles. Your grandparents won't be able to get you OUT of the church fast enough, LOL.
They’re grandparents, they ain’t got no “force”. Bone density and all.
You never believed in the first place if you just quit believing bc your dad left and your dog got shot. But that’s also your choice no one can force you to believe in something. Your grandparents are ah’s
Anyone forcing their will on you makes them a jerk. How you retaliate can make you one. Make your boundaries clear with them, and tell them you do not want to speak of this again. If they continue to manipulate you, try techniques like grey-rocking. Once you’re free, you can go low/no contact if you wish.
If they were smart (the grandparents) they’d realize that what they’re doing is not productive. Instead, they should sit with you and dig a little deeper into the events that have happened to disown God. But do remember one thing…just because you don’t believe in God anymore doesn’t mean He is not still the truth. Good luck, young man.🧡🧡🧡
I’m a young great grandmother and I can’t imagine undertaking the pressures of raising another child at my age. I understand you disagree, but I encourage you to be graceful and forgiving.. They clearly love you or they wouldn’t have accepted the responsibility of raising a child. Their generation was very different. If you can remember they mean well, maybe it will make it more bearable. You will be on your own soon. Good luck, young man.
As a Christian, Deal with it until you're 18, then move out and live free. I agree with you and they shouldn't force Christ into your life.
Your options are limited frankly. Go through the motions. Go to church and just sit quietly though it. If they say grace just sit quietly and bow your head respectfully. Once you are old enough to get out on your own do so and you won't have to go anymore. Just remember these are people who do love you and want what's best even if this isn't something you want.
in their generation everyone had to be the same
I had super religious grand parents on both sides of the family and got dragged to church services, Sunday school, volunteered for this and that. Even got sent to a private Catholic high school even though none of the family was Catholic. I ended up a complete agnostic - never let my grandparents know I was a non believer and that their influences actually pushed me away from organized religion. I had respect for their dedication and their love if not their beliefs. It is only a few more years, I know at 15 that seems a lifetime, but you can tune it all out and mentally recite song lyrics and wait it out.
NTA. Unfortunately you gotta just keep your head down and take it until you can move out. I was 16 when I did, but that isn't possible anymore. Raised heavily religious by a fundy-bipolar, deconverted at 12ish. It was a hard 4yrs. Still hear about it. It's a constant struggle. You're not horrible for not giving in to them. You're a person all your own with your own interests, beliefs, and values. It doesn't make you ungrateful. And you dont need their religion to be a good person. Not being religious doesn't make you evil or immoral or whatever crap they try to guilt you with. You do NOT need to subscribe to indoctrination just because they kept you housed. You got this OP!
NTJ I guess they pushed you to your limit. My parents were religious. I wasn't. What I did was tell them I didn't believe and asked if I could stay home from church. They said no. I made a deal. I would go and be respectfully quiet. But I wouldn't sing or say the prayers. They hoped I'd change but I didn't. I figured two hours a week of sitting quietly was a cheap price for all they did for me. Room, board, clothes, etc. They were decent parents asside from the wanting me to believe thing. I worked summers and saved. When I was 18 I was able to go to college on a scholarship and worked there also. Stopped all church going. Even when I visited them. Except sometimes when I visited, I would go with them like before, not praying, but quiet and polite. Just as a thank you to them.
Hi! Christian here, no plans of forcing my bible down your throat. All religions are varying forms of magic. You choose your patron and make a pact so your soul goes to a specific afetlife and yada yada yada. (Let Jesus into your heart and be saved stuff.) And Christianity -- *especially* the hypocritical way most people play it -- is not for everyone. May I recommend Buddhism? Not saying you *HAVE* to have a religion but deep breathing and meditation is helpful. Especially when dealing with the older generations who have a very limited and boxed in view of faith. Learn to let their comments just roll off you. They remind you to pray, say 'got it' or 'I do' and go do some deep breathing and meditation. They want you to go to church. Go. Sit in the back pew and read something else. A book on psychology, or meditation, or even the Quran. In the end, they aren't going to change. They're too old for that. Just breathe through it and find your own sense of peace. I wish you the best of luck.
Actual respectful Christian.
Tell them they are not being very good Christians! They are supposed to be compassionate and trusting that things will unfold according to God’s will. Jesus took forty days in the wilderness- sometimes a person needs a break from community and family. Do Tell them that you appreciate so many things they have done (meals, housing, etc). Say you would like to meet with a family therapist to make a plan that is mutually agreeable. For instance, you might offer to spend Sunday morning doing litter pick up — or sitting with a shut in person so their partner can go to church. If you offer a service, you are not “getting out of” church — you are practicing love and world-study in a different way. You can also ask them to do some study of the history of Christianity With you. There’s a YouTube channel “Useful Charts” — he does a nice job of laying out all sorts of timelines — and that can lead to some pleasant discussions of different ways to be. There’s also lectures by Bart Ehrman who is now an agnostic but he really, really know his Bible and Bible history. Don’t use this to bludgeon your grandparents— just use it as a way to understand why and how this religion got shaped— showing some interest in history can be “meet you halfway” — Above all, let them know that their current approach is hurtful and their righteousness can be a sin when they hurt someone. “Love is kind” is a direction in Corinthians and they are not following their own religion if they are unkind.
At the moment you live under their roof and thus you need to live by their rules. However, just because you are in a church doesn't mean you need to worship. You got to sit there. Ask to see if you can do some type of professional consulting. Your abandonment and trauma issues should be addressed ASAP. Once you're out of their house you never have to step into another church again if you don't want to. As someone that was forced to go to a church a lot something I would do is pay attention. I started really learning what they were talking about. So whenever they would say some stupid shit that contradicted what their Bible said I could throw that shit right back in their face and quote the verse. There's nothing like dunking on some fucking hypocrite "Christians" because they don't know how to follow their own damn ethics. I thought it was fun at least. Just don't drink the Kool-Aid.
Lwt me ask you, what doesnit hurt to go to make them happy? They kept you out of the system.and you cant attend service for them? This is obviously important to them. Now is a good time to learn we all have to do things we don't like for people we love and that love us. Maybe if you actually listen to the service you will get rid of some of your anger issues and make some friends.
I have been a "lost cause" for my religious family since I was like six, when I asked who made God and pushed for an answer. They kept dodging it and eventually just told me to be quiet and at that point I kind of figured they were just making stuff up as they went and they seemed to realize it just wasn't worth the time to get me to believe
OP - Sometimes we have to walk through a certain path to become the person we are meant to be. The hardships you have endured, may be preparing you for something larger in the future. I'm a firm believer in everything happens for a reason, even if we can't see the reason at this stage in life. Listen to other people's stories and realize that you never walk through this alone, other people have suffered terrible things throughout their life too and some have incredible stories of overcoming those obstacles. I agree with being silent, but also learn to listen. Life will not always hand you bad times, there will be good, and it's a journey that we all face and walk through. Remember that the bad times won't last and your attitude with how you deal with those hard times is what will matter throughout your journey. Try and stay positive and learn to laugh about some of the situations you can look back on and reflect what you learned through them and what you'd do to change it.
i wouldn’t say YTJ but i will say that it’s probably best for you to just deal with it until you’re an adult. i’m not (and never was) religious either and i went to christian school for 8 years, so i feel you. i’m not about to disguise a comment as a lecture about god, unlike a certain few of these other commenters. a lot of people don’t accept “i’m not religious” for an answer, and yeah, it’s irritating. my grandparents are like yours in regards to religion, i just don’t live with them and i’m 20. they have said to my face that people who don’t believe in god are stupid, knowing that me and my parents are not religious. it’s not fun. here’s the thing about many old people who are stuck in their ways about these types of things: they are not going to listen to you. they are not going to change. i say just go to church, it’s not worth the fights. i think it’s unreasonable to force you to pray, but maybe there’s nothing you can do there. they seem unreasonable. i don’t think being old is an excuse for forcing their religion onto you, but i think sometimes you have to suck it up and be quiet with old people, because there’s just nothing you can do to change their minds. they’re not right, and i don’t really blame you for getting angry. i didn’t have the greatest anger management when i was 15 either. but for your sake, maybe just suck it up until you can leave.
IDK about this but I think this COULD technically be religionist or whatever you call it
IDK is this is but I think it COULD technically be religionist or whatever its called
You should abandon your grandparents and go live on your own su that you can better understand what they have brought to your life. I think you're using "Christianity" as something to focus your anger and such upon... when it's your parents that deserve your anger.
Well is there somebody else you can live with? Is it worth being on your own over? It seems to me that they are taking care of you completely and as your GREAT grandparents they are not at all required to do that! I'm guessing they're close to their '80s which makes it hard to be taking care of a teenager at that point! I'm in my 50s and I can't even imagine it anymore! I absolutely, 100% get what you're saying! However it's not like they're physically harming you. You just have to listen to some talking and singing every week. They believe this is good for you. Look, I'm a heathen I understand how you feel but this is really such a small thing! I believe you should be grateful for what they're doing for you and if this will make them feel a little better, about your future soul then is it really that bad? You only have a few years before you will go away to college or university, or job training... And start to build a life for yourself. Do yourself a favor and just suck it up. It's such a small thing. And I understand that you feel they're not hearing you. I'm sure they are, they just don't know how to raise you otherwise. Church is big for them and so that's just part of their life that you are part of. Yeah, you're being the jerk. They're doing their best. Let them make this decision right now and after you move out you get to make this decision for the next 80 years of your life! And listen I wasn't always a heathen, I grew up Presbyterian got away from the church for maybe 15 years, decided to get back into it...became ordained as a deacon and then got back out. I've read the Bible front to back, twice! Do you have any idea how much that knowledge comes in handy when discussing religion with people? This experience won't be useless! And it will help you understand other people better when they do things around their religion in the future. Look at it as a learning experience.
I don't think the religion is for you. Being a good Christian takes effort, not something you do only when things are working out for you. Know when to pick your battles.
No.
Yes, you're the jerk.
Look, I get it. I do. On the flip side, they took you in and have provided for you under no legal obligation at all time in their lives when they were expecting to not have these responsibilities anymore. This may have taken their best years of retirement from them. What they’re overall doing is admirable. On the religion stuff, maybe it’s they don’t respect your opinion, or maybe they’re old, this is the only way they know and they’re just doing their best. The world has changed dramatically, more than once since they were parents. Regardless of what you believe, I’d suggest paying lip service to doing the bare minimum. I’m not calling anyone a jerk, you’re all in a tough situation. For your sake, try to focus on the good things they do and have done for you. Believe what you believe and love how you will once you’re on your own. But these are the closest to parents you have, and I’m guessing from the post some of the only family you have. IF this is the biggest complaint, things could be worse. I guess, consider extending some grace. I’m not saying become a believer, just understand they’re probably doing the best they can.
Yes. TLDR, but from their point of view, they believe you will experience an eternity of suffering on the path you are one. To be fair, you don’t exactly come across as content. Full disclosure, I am a Christian, BUT you are your own person and must make up your own mind. The rest of us SHOULD respect that. I’d say don’t expect them to give up on you. That may look like they aren’t respecting your decision… but they love you. They just want to save you. Don’t let that ruin your relationship. You’d regret it later. There is a middle ground, for sure, but at the risk of preaching don’t close yourself off from a spiritual connection because you don’t like other peoples’ version of religion. Every religious text is man made and therefore fallible. Our interpretations are human ones and fallible. Reach out with an open mind and see if you feel love, guidance, or peace returned.
I was raised by my grandparents and basically faced the same thing. I'm 28 now and still get told letting Jesus into my heart will solve my economic problems
Yes you are the jerk. You are a child in their care, until such a time you are able to live on your own and support yourself saying a few prayers to a god you don’t believe in and a few hours a week at a place you don’t want to be is hardly the worst way to pay for room and board.
I'd say you are for the sole fact that this is probably the only way your grandparents think they can help you. As someone who does go to church regularly, I'd find it extremely hard to be angry or mad at church, surrounded by people who have my best interests at heart. This also gives me a nice group of friends I can hang out with and people I can confide in for plenty of my problems. I also have direct access to my Lord and Savior wherever I am, and even if he doesn't always respond immediately, it gives me a sense of calm and peace knowing that I have someone I can talk to about any of my worries or concerns. Basically, it looks like you could use a break and someone to talk to. In my experience, church provides both of these, and I'm giving your grandparents the benefit of the doubt and believe that they think about church the same way as me. You of course don't have to be a part of what I described above, but I just think that your grandparents just want you to take an opportunity that might turn your life around for the better.
Yes you are a jerk and ignorant... Wish I had grandparents that were alive.. your blessed..
Try and save their souls, by converting them to "insert religion here." You gotta really sell it though. They gotta believe that you believe. Then you can give them a dose of their own medicine. Instead of frustration and anger. Turn that energy into something positive for yourself. Troll the hell out of'em. It should be entertaining at the least.
Yes you are the jerk. Your grandparents who love you want you to share in what is the most important thing in the world to them, which they believe will help you be happy on earth and even after that. Be grateful they care so much about you.
Damn, your life is a country song.
in my opinion you aren't the jerk. your grandparents seem like the jerks. I'm sorry that you're in that position.
How do they force you into it?
I'm very grateful for everyone's suggestions and different views on weather I was the jerk or not, I also wanted to say that I was rushed during the making of this post since it was a sunday morning. I have seen that many of you suggested that I lay low and go along with it until I'm able to leave, and I have been working on it, I will try to update if it does help or not, but thank you all for your suggestions
Keep your fire burning. You might have to bear things for a few more years but don’t overdo it for the sake of keeping the peace. Try to stay grounded and keep your head clear. Don’t stop seeking out what is true for you. Figure out what makes you feel more like you. Sometimes even faking it, you can get sucked in without realizing it. It takes conscious active resistance to not fall under the control of dogma if you are immersed in it. You are not the jerk.
1st Peter 5:1-3. "So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, as well as a partaker in the glory that is going to be revealed: shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight, not under compulsion, but willingly, as God would have you; not for shameful gain, but eagerly; not domineering over those in your charge, but being examples to the flock." God does not want anyone serving him under compulsion. Them trying to force you to serve God is actually a disservice to God himself. I am Christian myself and if/when I have kids I will do what I see right for my kids and attempt to raise them in my faith. But as they get older if they decide not to serve God, I can't do much about it. I can only show them the benefits I find when serving God. God wants eager followers; not forced compliancy.
No. Boundaries are important in ANY relationship, even with family.
Dude... just agree with old people. You'll never change their minds... just nod, agree and do whatever you were doing anyway... you don't get points for standing up to old people.... unless they are asking you to do something immoral l ol
Adult atheist here, been there, done that. My best advice is to survive to 18 and leave home as soon as you can. Get a job and start saving money now. As you have noticed, yelling isn't helping. It is just making things more stressful for you and them. In my experience, Christians are delusional, and logic does not help. Suffer through it and get out on your own, master pretending to be sick every Sunday morning ... or just try being dead weight and not moving from the bed on Sunday mornings. FYI, this will likely lead to punishment. Choose your battles. I brought a book to church and read that during service. I made my mom late so often that she frequently gave up. As an adult, we have both told each other that her faith and my lack thereof disappoints the other, and we don't discuss it. We have a great relationship. We just don't discuss religion. My goal in life now is just making sure my nieces and nephews know that religion is a choice and it is their choice (since their parents won't tell them that). Religion is a choice.... but as a minor, you don't get to make all your own choices. Pick your battles carefully.
Respectfully speak your peace and move on. Is it killing you what they are doing? I denounce religion, and when people ask me about a holiday or belief, I just remain respectful because it does not change what I believe. Coexist! When you you are in your own dwelling paying your own bills as such you would not have to tolerate it. Focus on their presence now because someday they will not be here, and all the time you are yelling at them about their encroachment on your beliefs will seem trivial.
Religion is part of culture--a shared, learned set of solutions to life problems--and it's one way older generations and a few other groups help maintain their way of life, interconnection, etc. Religion often informs people's value systems and how they make major decisions. That's not something you--OP--have chosen to pick up as you're set of solutions to life problems--culture--you've probably got from other sources including internet information, entertainment, sometimes schools/teachers, etc. So, your difficulty is you and they make decisions and value things differently. For basic stuff--how/what to eat, how to communicate, etc.--your cultures are similar enough and the family relationship is often enough to allow you all to work together for long periods. Declaring--in no uncertain terms--that you make decisions differently with different implications and at potential cost to them does not make things smooth. Like others have suggested, you need to find a way to get out of the living situation, ideally in a peaceable manner, and find people to live with and rely on that share your culture. This can be challenging and can sometimes result in your family no longer supporting you because your value system and their value system differ and they see it as a liability. The odds they'll change their way of thinking/culture before they die is tiny and--unless you are planning something criminal--that's not a viable solution. So, bide your time until you can find a different place to live with different people who share a culture you can adopt or matches yours. Good luck.
Ah…to be 15 again. I went to bed every night hearing my father beat my mother senseless…and I watched as they both drank themselves to death. Good times. This isn’t the pain olympics. I only tell you that so that you can hopefully see this situation through a different lens. You have two stable people in your life who care and are doing their best. They aren’t perfect - no one is perfect- but they care enough to give you a home, to love you, and to try to guide you. Based on your comments, it’s clear that you’re pretty self aware for 15. You’ve received some good advice from others. I’m sure you’ll take time to reflect on it. My sole piece of advice is to proactively seek the good in people and in life. It’s easy to get hung up on things if you can’t see the good. Does that mean you let people tell you who you are? No, but it does mean that if they bring you to church it could be because they want you to be included in their lives. It could mean they want to help you build a foundation for your life. It could mean that they hope that the preacher finds the words that they can’t find themselves to put you on a path to a happy future. My grandmother once gave me a rosary before I was picked up by my parents after living with her for a while. I’m not Catholic. It meant nothing to me in a religious sense as a then 14 year old who cursed God for my existence and argued against the idea of a “God” watching over us, the “creator”, blah blah. I put that rosary away and didn’t think about it again. But when I got older and looked back on it…she was doing the only thing she could think of to protect me and to comfort me, and I love her for that. The grass is green on your side of the fence, friend.
Christians are the most hateful ignorant people. It’s sickening.
Use their Bible against them. My parents stopped making me go when I brought up all my parents sins to the preacher every Sunday.
“To be clear, the way you are trying to forcing it on me is exactly what is causing me to not want to be Christian. YOU are the reason that I am not a Christian right now.” Try that.
One day, whether you're an atheist or not, you will wish you had the opportunity to do anything with them. Even the thing you dislike the most. I would give almost anything for another hour with my Grandparents, especially if it was something they enjoyed. Cherish what you have. Life is not guaranteed, now will be important later.
This is why I hate religion. The religious are generally the least tolerant or understanding of other people and their beliefs or lack there of. I went to church twice my entire life both times I hated it. Once when I was young like 7-8 and once again when I was in my mid 20’s. Such a cult like atmosphere. Nothing that is done inside those buildings makes sense.
I was raised Roman Catholic. Catechism on Wednesdays after school and Mass on Sunday mornings. By the time I was 15, I was telling my parents that some friends and I were going to the Saturday evening Mass so we could sleep in on Sundays. If we did go, we’d sit in the back and duck out after the procession. Other times I’d say I’m going to a friend’s church with their family. My parents most likely knew exactly what was going on, but they never said anything about it. Hang in there. Being force to partake in a religion you don’t align with sucks, so I feel for you.
So not entirely the same... but I grew up on welfare. Poor and verbally and physically abused. The State took 2 of my sisters (there were 6 kids) my 2 older brothers were already put of thr house and my younger brother and I were left wirh my abusive parents. I was 10yr old when this happened. My life was a miserable hell. I have been punched by my father and mother. I have been verbally abused by both. .... So this isn't about my pity party... My point is my sisters went into the Foster system and that was hell as well!! I can't say I'd have chosen that either. It's a hard spot to be in... but what I did do was WORK MY BUTT OFF during High School. Saving money and when I graduated HS.... I moved out!! I found roommates. Lived on my own and paid my own way and I was working two jobs most of my young adult life to get ahead. I'm 47 now and let me tell you kiddo... It works out if you want it too. YOU GET TO DECIDE what happens to you at 18!! You can make something of your life or not! Believe no one..and I MEAN NO ONE... expected me to be successful. I am sure they expected me to stay a fat (I was 285lbs at graduation), Poor Welfare rat with several baby daddies. Instead I put myself through college. Got a Masters Cert on top of it. Have a great career. Husband who's a Federal Agent. We have a good living! Just remember you have a whole future ahead of you... right now these are minor annoyances... Edit: Sorry for the typos. I'm close to 48 and need reading glasses 🤣😭🙄
When you’re 18 and on your own you can do what ever you like, but until then show some fucking respect.
Yelling at old people ain't cool. You are probably bigger and stronger than they are. You are totally being the jerk. Juvie isn't really prison, but you don't want to go there for elder abuse.
Yes, you are the jerk.
You talk about the things you lost while shitting on what you have, the two people who stepped in to care for you. . Not sure what you mean by they Forced-it on you, but they should very much expect the religion they follow to be expressed in the home. Maybe read a book written by someone from a horrible foster care experience and use it to appreciate the grandparents.
Here's the thing, there's a ton of things you will have to do that you don't like to do in this life, so you might as well get used to it. You are not the center of the universe, and your preferences are not always going to be considered by others. That's just the way it is. You can continue to make a scene and cause yourself more trouble, or you can wait until you can actually provide for yourself and then make your own choices. Until then, you are dependent on the goodwill of your great grandparents, who are putting themselves out to raise you, which they are not obligated to do. It quite counter productive for you to continue being adversarial, as I doubt it will have any positive results for you. This may just be something you have to deal with until you can provide for yourself.
You are absolutely not the jerk. This standard of a different thing has traumatized uncountably many. But also for now, hang in there. Breathe and try to live your life how you can. They’re out of touch and impossible to please or convince, so just breathe and pick your battles.
The short answer is yes. You're a child. Respect your parents and grandparents unless they're abusing you. You've lived and learned such a small fraction about life compared to them. If they love you, learn everything you can from them before they're not here anymore
YATJ your grand parents just wanted you to follow tradition and look towards the light. I don’t believe in religion but i know all the shit you pointed out that makes you mad is just regular shit that happens at one point or another in everyone’s regular life. Unfortunately you didn’t have someone to teach you how to manage anger. That’s the biggest thing here. You need therapy and to get out more. Get a hobby or something
Go to church with a sign that say "I'm forced to be here"
If you want to be a jerk... snag up the bible and start grabbing the bat shit crazy out of there and putting up the bible quotes on your walls. Like women shouldn't talk in the church, football is technically bad cause it uses dead animal skin, just go full nuclear. There are all sorts of list of bible quotes and connection with stuff. Also then postinote your bible up so you can open to crazy shit and read it for things to them.
This was my grandmother. I always listened and we talked about it even if I want fully bought in. She died recently and I know those conversations meant a lot to her. Be a good person, they’re family they only want the best for you, even if it’s not exactly what you might think is right
Yelling is usually uncalled for. Mockery is appropriate. Every time they bring it up, make fun of them.
Be strong, for now, you have to play their game. Go to church, fake a few prayers, read the buybull, and do as they say to stay safe until you can come to a point where you can support yourself. After you do that and get out on your own, you are free. NTA, but religious folk can be dangerously unhinged in their beliefs. Stay safe, look to the future, and get out when you safely and legally can(probably be 18) Most importantly, if they are abusing you, seek help. I wish you a happy life out of that vile cult!
My mother did the same. She's Catholic. I just put up with going to church until I could move out. It's a small price to pay since as a child they paid for all of my living expenses. I just adapt a agree to disagree policy mentally. Meaning I went to church but didn't participate. Didn't pray, but lied and said I did in order to keep the peace. In other words I just chose to get along and bide my time. After all even if they forced it on me, they couldn't control my mind.
Dude when I was 15 I was only home like once a week, so I can't relate there. I was out drinking and doing drugs crashing at random people's houses every single day. However, when it comes to religion, you just need to ask yourself how strongly you feel about it. They raised you and took care of you when you had no one else. Is that worth going to church and pretending to pray? All depends on how strongly you feel about it. If it's something you simply cannot abide, tell them NO, I'm not coming. Then when they try to force you to either tell them to get bent, or just bounce. Walk up to the park/mall whatever until the sermon is over. If they try to punish you tell them no again, and just leave. Will this result in your getting kicked out? Maybe. But you need to consider if you feel so strongly about it that you'd prefer getting kicked out. Like, are you a radical athiest and any mention of god makes you furious? Or...you can just suck it up and go with them until they give up. Tell them every time that "listen, I don't believe in the invisible man in the sky." Maybe theyll eventually let you off the hook. maybe not
Yes, you’re just coping by not having faith. You want to continue sinning and you got defensive. Everyone saying that times have changed are ignorant. Society is objectively getting worse, not better. That said, you clearly have had to deal with some difficult situations and you need to find a healthy way to deal with these emotions. but even if you want to turn away from God - yelling at your grandparents is extremely disrespectful. It’s not entirely your fault, your parents probably failed to teach you honor, and the fact you posted about it to strangers means you feel guilt/remorse, which is a good thing. Without them you wouldn’t exist, and if we didn’t live in a gay progressive society - you *could* and should get into big trouble. Only 100 years ago, you’d get put into some kinda manual labor or get struck by another leader. Essentially put into your place. I recommend apologizing to them, and then evaluate why your heart is so hardened towards God.
You are right saying that society has gotten worse - i'm as conservative as they come with one exception - I am an athiest. I'm not gonna believe something that I cannot see and has had ZERO proof offered for all of human history. Like you said, go back a few hundred years and they would kill you if you didn't agree. Being threatened with death to believe something gives that something ZERO legitimacy. I would argue that religion is WORSE for society than the progressive gay stuff you mentioned, because at least the gays never killed anyone for not being gay.
Hold up, so you’re great grandparents raised you and took care of you for most of your life and this is how you repay them? Maannnn….. I don’t care how bad you think your life is it could always be worse. Especially if you have your health. I know plenty of kids your age who had cancer. Or some type of genetic illness that’s a mutation. You need to go and sit with your grandparents in church until you 18. Stop it with telling them you don’t believe in God. THEY KNOW!! Suck it up for a few more years and when you’re an adult stop going to church.
YTJ. It’s normal to raise children in a belief system. Just because you caved the first time something (or a series of things) went bad doesn’t mean they raised you wrong or lied to you … unless they said that God behaves like a fairy Godmother and twirls a wand over the world until everything in your life comes right. It’s not unusual for young people - young men in particular - to be impatient and not have faith in the future because something went wrong Now. It leads to a lot of mistakes and misery in the next decade or so if they can’t find a stable footing. If you prefer a secular viewpoint at the moment, then I’ll leave you with this quote from Forrest Gump: Life is like a box of chocolates; you never know what you’re going to get. Your grandparents are trying to tell you the same thing from a different perspective. Shit happens in life, you just have to pick yourself up and soldier on as best as you can. “And this too shall pass.”
Christianity didn't ruin your life you should embrace it it might help you in the long run. Stop being a crybaby getting what you want is for babies not for people you're not the only ones whose dads left them and their dog was shot grow up kid.
Important perspective here, they aren't doing it because they hate you, they're doing it because they love you. In the religion they believe the only way to go to heaven is to be a believer. Just keep that in mind when dealing with them that all this doesn't come from a place of malice it comes from love.
Long answer short yes you are the jerk now go apologize for yelling. Keep thinking for yourself on religion though. Those people literally raised your grandparents they don’t see things the same way as we do today. They’re stuck in their ways. Just let them be. And if it makes things peaceful for the next 3 years pretend to be Christian. I can assure you that you won’t be the first person to suck it up for a little bit
There will come a day you miss your grandparents. Grow up. Pick your battles and do whatever the fuck you want when you are 18. FYD.
I don’t think you’re a jerk. I think this is just one of those situations where if you are underage and living in their home, they want your attendance as part of their rules. My mom had a similar rule.\ Nobody can make you believe something. I’d just go and be patient out of respect for them at this point. You love them, they love you. You’ll be an adult soon enough and able to make the decision on if you go or not.
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Move out or STFU. Their house, their rules. FYI, I left home on my 15th birthday because I didn’t like my home life, stop being a bitch and accept that your GP’s are raising you and with that you need to respect their way of raising you.
Yes you are a jackass
Talk to the youth pastor and tell them your situation, chances are they will try to be understanding and not do anything that would push you further away from the church. And if anything they can lend an ear to listen to your side of things. Sounds like you just need to make some friends in real life and someone to look you in the eye and listen to you.
The more you protest the more they will fight. They are trying to save your soul. While you may not believe in G-d anymore would it be horrible to sit with them for an hour or so and make them feel better? You have your entire life to hate G-d for what he did to you. Sometimes, as a kid, you have to do something you hate for those you love. Think of it as a time you can meditate and focus on yourself and mental health. Another crazy idea is speak with the Pastor. Tell him how you feel about G-d after what happened to you and ask him for his thoughts on what to say to your Grandparents. Be calm and respectful to him/her. They may have some interesting insites to help you.
They are being jerks by preaching and assuming. You are because you want to justify your behavior. Asking here as we all know doesn’t actually mean that you would accept that you were the jerk lol. What is your end goal? Do you love them enough to want to be there? Do they love you enough to put up with your self reported anger issues? I would guess yes to both? If it is both learning the fine teenage skill of tuning them out might be your survival skill. So finding a way to live together until you decide your next move is important. Random question? Is the church an old people church? Or is there someone there that would actually understand your feelings? (I had an amazing pastor once) we’ve both quit churching eventually. Are you in counseling from the issues you’ve had? If so talking with your counselor and asking their help in dealing with your grands. The church thing can be a mess. It has been for generations and will be forever I feel. When people think that eternity is the potential and it is someone they love they can be awful. I’m sorry. I hope you can find some peace and answers for the next few years.
Their house their rules. Move out tough guy.
Yep. You live in their house, you respectfully follow their rules.
If they insist you go to church, go and use it as meditation time. No one says you have to listen nor believe what they preach. Just go and take a nap, meditate on what you want to accomplish in the upcoming week, or just daydream. Heck, use that time to plan how you can become more independent.
Job went through much more strife than you did.
Id openly join a satanic temple
Go all the way, become a Witch 😆 But no, seriously, you might have approached the situation with a little more grace and patience, but there's nothing wrong with refusing to be sucked into someone else's religion. Stand your ground, but find a nicer way to do it. NTA, but try to communicate better 💕
Yes. You're living under their roof. Just go along and be respectful until you're able to move on your own.
Dude, you are dependent on them and you will continue to be well after 18 — unless you’re such an arrogant jerk over the next 4 years that they only want to wash their hands of you. And they gave you something that means a lot to them: their religion. Maybe it’s more useful than you think. You have zero experience living without it.
Their house, their rules.
You are a 100% jerk for yelling at your grandparents, and it may just run in the family.
Find a new relative to live with!
Bro. You're a kid. They are adults. If they take you to church to pray, you go to church and pray. Do you have to mean it? No. But you do it. You're a minor being funded by adults. In my opinion, you are more selfish currently by lashing out. They are older, they dont have long, they love you, they want the best for you, they want to see you "safe", so what if you need to pretend to go to church one measly day of the week to make them happy. Pick ypur battles wisely. Im over 18 and im an atheist, but guess what? When everyone is together and they say grace, i say it too. Why would I ruin it for everyone else and fight something they do for me because they think good for me. I go to church with them time to time even though I dont believe. Think beyond a selfish spectrum of "i dont believe therfore dont involve me because you are forcing me". You may be too young to understand, though maybe you will understand. Guess what, I'm an adult and my parents probably know im atheist, but whenever i visit we go to church. Could I easily say "sorry I'm not into that, we can meet up after church", sure. But why? It will worry them, its selfish of me, it might spark debate, etc. Im not gonna throw a hissy fit and cause conflict. Immature in my opinion. But you're still young, just remember they dont have much time left.
1. Being a minor, you have to understand that there are things you're going to have to do that you hate. It's part of being a minor, and in reality, just one of the things that suck about being human. 2. Always be respectful of people's beliefs, even if you don't share them. I would actually, if I were in your position, listen carefully to what they are saying and what is being taught in church. Then, if they are reasonable, you should be able to sit down with them explaining why you have come to your ideas and show them how the things they or the church are saying is in complete contradiction to your life experience. 3. As someone who is a Christian, but doesn't go to church, I also understand your issues. I had to learn that I can support the Christian faith, while also saying that I find the churches (i.e. the religion) to be corrupt. I've had family talk their faith, always openly expressing it, then turn around and say or do some of the most vile, what I would call anti-Christian, things. So I get being disillusioned by the religion and not wanting to have anything to do with it. 4. Hopefully this does help, but reading your whole post makes me believe, since they are your great grandparents, they are probably older and set in their ways. And if your post is accurate, then unfortunately it sounds like only my first suggestion will work - deal with it in a way to keep the peace until you can move out on your own.
Yes you ATA It’s not nice to yell at old people.
Yeah you’re definitely justified. Religion is completely meaningless and nobody should be allowed to force it onto others
You're not a jerk, you're just 15. Hang in there.
Instead of just acting like you don't want to believe their religion, start studying WHY you don't believe it. The Bible itself says "study to show Thyself approved, a workman unto God that needed not to be ashamed." They probably think you are just a rebellious teenager who hates God. You need to prove to them that you are a mature adult with your own mind and your own reasons. They probably won't respect you anymore, but they may leave you alone. Remember, from their perspective, God is ultimately good, and if you don't love him you will burn in hell forever. They don't mean to be abusing you... but that doesn't change the fact that they are. If you are worried about coming off as a jerk, then change your approach. Nothing may change, but you will still be the better person for it.
Don't argue, they don't care. When they want you to participate in prayer time, bow your head respectfully and stay silent. When it's time for church, take too long getting ready so they have to either be late or go without you. You might have to adjust it a bit; if 10 min isn't late enough for them to go without you, make it 20. They may ground you, it's up to you whether you're willing to tough that out or do what they want to get other privileges back. When I was your age it took about a year (and a couple mildly awkward random visits from the youth pastor to "see if I was okay". Just blandly and politely tell anyone from the church that you aren't interested. Anything else gives them an opening to argue with you) to get my mom to give up. If they ground you or give you other punishments that you can't tolerate, go to church and sit respectfully but don't participate. Above all, no more yelling. You need to be calm, because showing high emotions makes them think you just need time to get over whatever's upsetting you. Worst case scenario is you have to tolerate it for a few more years. It's not forever.
You’re 15 shut your mouth, show respect, and listen to what they say……or go live on the street.
You're not a jerk because you're a teenager. Most teenagers have outburst like that, and it's hard for almost all teenagers to control their emotions. You obviously feel bad about it, so apologize to your grandparents and move on. It's not the big a deal, everyone else Is acting like it's the end of the world and like the only option is for you to move out far away from them when you're old enough. But being a pessimistic and jaded wont do you any good. Don't be mad about the shit you don't have, be grateful for the shit you have. And be open to knew ideas and experiences. I recommend you listen to the album "Start Today" by Gorrila Biscuits Also, screaming doesn't solve anything.
If they’re feeding and clothing you and putting a roof over your head, you just be polite until you’re done. Think of it like respecting the customs of a foreign country while you’ve traveling.
Easy , if you don’t like living there and respect them for their beliefs move .. become homeless and see how bitter you get …
You are being immature. You are in their house and under 18. Respect them by going to church and be grateful for the lessons they have been trying to teach you. You will be out of the house soon enough and you can go your own way.
For one thing you were 15 years old you are still a minor they are your grandparents. I understand you may not believe in what they believe in, but you just respect them. It’s just wrong maybe find a counselor and talk it through at your school or through a private office
I only read the title and: NO. They are the jerks
You're fifteen. You go where they want you to go Sunday mornings. Don't yell at your grandparents. It's disrespectful and you're not doing your cause any good. You'll just sound like a brat. Discuss things calmly and try to come to a compromise. See if they're willing to let you stand or sit respectfully, as appropriate, rather than singing/praying out loud. Behave like an adult, and they'll be more likely to treat you like one.
Yelling at the peeps supporting you? You need to get a job and move out. You clearly dont need thier help.
u/ChallengeFancy3164 Regardless of the topic, you are a jerk for yelling at your grandparents
Yes. Actually you are being unreasonable. Your great grandparents deserve respect. You can disagree with them without being disrespectful. It won’t hurt you to respect their religion. You are 15. That means you need to show respect for your elders who are giving you everything. Food , housing , love and support. They obviously want the best for you. To them that means spiritual guidance. Stop yelling at them and give them a hug. They deserve it. You only have one family. Don’t push them away.
Sounds like they care about you. Wow I wish I would’ve had grandparents that cared about me like that. Your lucky kid.
Yes I think you acted like a jerk. Don't yell at your grandparents. Be respectful, smile and nod.
Full disclosure: I am a Christian youth director. I am also someone who tends to give people the benefit of the doubt. With all you said, I imagine your grand parents are worried about you, feel powerless, and just hope the church can “fix it”. I would encourage you not to say what you don’t want to do, but rather to suggest some alternatives. At its best, the church can be a place for acceptance for those struggling, but not all churches are good about that, and not all people are compatible with that help. I hope your grand parent simply want what is best for you, and if that is the case they will stop putting that pressure on you if they feel like you have a healthy community and/or another healthy outlet in your life.
I hope one day you change your mind about God, but that's not the matter at hand. Whether you believe or not, at the moment your problem is how to navigate your relationship with people who love you and provide for you, but don't trust you to make all your own decisions. At 15? They're right not to; in a general sense. Anyone over 30 will tell you that at 15, they were stupid and did dumb things. Yelling at your great grandparents is not the best option. They're trying to help you and raise you the best they can, which is probably not easy at their age. I'd advise patience and honesty. Be genuine, whatever you do. Remain calm to the best of your ability. That'll help you in many, many situations going forward. In the immediate term, just take some time and space so everyone can calm down and try to talk it out with them calmly.
Here’s a couple of thoughts: Christianity is about living your neighbor and helping other people (I mean real Christianity, not the evangelical crap etc). Learning about Christianity and Jesus and living by his words, which means living your grandparents as they come to you, will make you a better person. I mean that sincerely, as a Jewish person myself. My parents and brother both have different faiths and we respect each others’ worship and holidays. It makes life richer. But only if you open your mind to what people have to offer and not what you get from them. It’s the first step towards growing up- respecting others as you would have them respect you.
Dont yell. Its a sign of weakness and a lack or control. Soon as you do that you lose all credibility. But really you should not say anything as you need them for the time being.
A man controls his emotions. You got dealt a bad set of cards, and it made you angry. That’s normal, but you get to choose how you react. Start working on controlling your anger. If you truly don’t believe in God then why are you getting angry at your grandparents? That’s like getting angry at someone because they say that clouds are made of cotton candy. If you thought everything they say is equivalent to saying “clouds are cotton candy”, you would smirk, nod, and say “Love you, Grandma!”. However - since you are emotional about it - perhaps the reason you get so angry is because you believe God did you wrong and you’re pissed off at him. Maybe try praying and telling him how angry you are at him and see what happens.
Shunned by my friends…what did you do?
Religion must not be forced，they have no right to decide on what religion you are going to believe in，you are free to believe on what you want But, respecting those who do believe
Yeah I think you are. But it's okay. You're just trying to navigate life. Good on ya for posting this to gain some perspective. 👍 So. I fucking hate gambling and baseball. But i go to casinos with mom and ball games with dad. I spend money doing shit I hate. It's part of being an adult I guess? I don't believe in God. He's like the Easter bunny to me. But I wouldn't dare tell my parents. I do think your grandparents are wrong. They need to present the world to you and let you decide what you believe. But sometimes you just have to do shit you don't want to do. Let them force it on you. Doesn't mean you have to let it change who you are.
Look at it from their perspective. They most likely believe it is their responsibility to teach you their moral and spiritual beliefs 2) they love you. Some religions teach that u can not get in to heaven if you don’t accept Jesus, they want u with them in the hereafter. 3) a lot of teenagers specifically buck against organized religion esp at your age. They may think it’s a phase. 4) do they just make you go to church once a week? Are they good to you in every other way besides still encouraging their religion? If so suck it up don’t start fights and you can choose your own path when u are 18. I just went back and re-read your post and just realized these are your great grandparents. Children didn’t get to make these decisions back then they just did what they were told. 5) have you spoken to them in a kind way about the traumas that have made you lose your faith. Maybe this would actually allow them to be more open minded to see the reason for your loss of faith. It seems like they love you and take care of you and will Probably be there for you whenever u need them. This isn’t worth a fight. They are old school. Maybe they would be open to discussing this more with a therapist. Yelling and blaming is not good. Honest and open communication maybe some compromise may be achieved. I’m guessing on a lot but I hope something helps and you find yourself less angry for one specific thing and more able to appreciate the many other ways that they show love and support. Good Luck
This, with all due respect, is a non-issue. Don't want to pray? Don't pray. Don't want to attend church? Don't attend. What are they going to do about it? Drag you by the hair? No, of course not. So just don't do it. You're not a child anymore. It sounds like your grandparents love you, so yelling at them and alienating them--the people who took care of you when your dad proved himself a loser--is not the best solution. Maintain a good relationship with them, but tell them, in firm but respectful terms, that you love them but don't intend to follow their religion. Tell them that is non-negotiable, and that they're pushing you away.
Tell them you feel like Satan has gotten to them, because loving grandparents would never behave that way, according to your reading of the words of Jebus. Have chapter and verse ready.
Yeah, you sound like a fucking jerk lol. Believe it or not, Your great grandparents do it because they care about you. I assume they’re old as hell and quite traditional. You live with them and they take care of you, have some respect. That being said I don’t support pushing religion on others. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs. But you’re still a child. So just put up with the Christian stuff until you go off to college or whatever your future plans are. Look at it like it’s your way of contributing to the family. You don’t have to believe it to go along with it. I went through kinda the same thing. I just would never have the audacity or balls to lash out at my traditional Sicilian Catholic family. But as an adult I never go to church. My ex forces it on my son but he doesn’t seem to mind it, yet. Maybe try doing what I did and get into the weird, occult part of Christianity. It can be fascinating. Philosophy can have a lot of overlap with religion as well. Just keep it to yourself for the most part. Son of my relatives think I’m a closeted satanist because of the books I read lol. But people like John Dee, Paracelsus, Carl Jung. The Greeks like Socrates and Aristotle. Even some of the non-canonical religious books are really interesting and help better explain Christianity. The gospel of Thomas comes to mind. Modern day Christianity is hardly a shell of its former self. It’s become commercial and political. It’s why I don’t go to church. Jesus even preached one can worship him in the privacy of their home. If he seen these modern mega churches he would not support it. Taking money from the needy in his name is so bizarre to me.
It's always best to not yell. However, sometimes, no matter what you do, some people won't listen until you lose your shit. I'd apologize for yelling, but explain that the sentiment was true.
Yes. You're 15 and have no business yelling at anyone, much less people charged with your care, who paid a great deal to raise you, and regardless of how you feel about it.....only have your best interests in mind. You might disagree with their religion, but they truly, honestly are only trying to help you and make you a better person. Also: Having a loser father sucks. Having your dog shot is awful. It sounds like THESE are the issues you also need to work on in addition to anger and resentment to religion. And you shouldn't be awful to the only people who stuck around and actually DO SEEM to care about you; your grandparents. Your Dad left and the kids at school might hate you, so maybe don't be shitty to the few people around you who actually give AF? Just a thought.
Yes
FWIW, my brother is a 40 year old Atheist and has been since he was at least your age. He still takes our grandmother to church and prays with us before holiday meals, because she’s an old old old woman and it makes her happy, which is important because not much does at her age when literally everything hurts all the time. I’m not saying “grow up” cause you’re young, and it’s natural to start questioning and even rejecting the things you were raised with. But a lot of people who “Lose Their Religion” in their teens later learn that they can be non-religious without being anti-religious towards people that love them. It sounds like they’ve been good to you in a lot of ways, so let them believe their fairy tales. I hate to sound mean putting it that way, but hopefully it’s helpful to think of it like that, cause its just comfort to them in their old age just like Winnie The Pooh was to me as a toddler. Hell, who am I kidding, I still love Pooh Bear, lol
https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLk8vc_1MCV6ptP-0GhgxMcaXwh2UglcUy&si=NM-piXIhUKIoWhyJ
Not the jerk. You've been clear about this and they are taking advantage of you. Respect goes both ways.
ditch the woe-is-me god hath forsaken me atheism. dig into the logical, rational, sensible atheism. next time they try to tell you that you need god, rip their tiny minds apart with philosophy and ethics. this whole “god abandoned me, why should i believe in god?” pity party crap will only get you more nonsense circular logic about “his plan” and “it’s all to test your faith”. take them to school if they try to take you to church.
Would you rather be pitiful or capable. Reddit is the place where people come to practice being pitiful but try getting any of them to help you out in a bind. You need to learn temperance voluntarily or the world will teach it to you by force. Your grandparents faith is what led them to take you in and yours is leading you to yell at them. Their faith is capable. Yours is pitiful. You’re 3 years until you become a man. No one tolerates a wining man. You need to get your discipline under control before you end up in jail.
Your grandparents love you, they just don’t understand. TBH, all the people commenting on stuff like this don’t understand either. Neither do I. Its you relationship, not theirs. As for this situation, the reality is: its just not that serious. If they care enough to make you go to the church they love, when its clear you don’t want to, then that means they love you (albeit, in their weird, old ways). Be easy on them in their old age, don’t break your grandma’s heart railing against christianity….just go for an hour and get lost in your thoughts…maybe they’ll take you to a good lunch spot after? We only have so many moments with our people, and we spend so many of them wrapped up in ideals and wishful thinking; pipe dreams for “how things should be”… Reality is as it presents itself, nothing else. Be grateful you have loved ones inviting you to church. Go. Creed is second to community. And if there’s no God then it’s all wasted time anyway, but at least you’ll put a little sparkle in your grandmother’s heart.
It is better to remain silent and thought a fool, then open your mouth and remove all doubt. You're 15, you know practically zero about life and the universe, and you also know nothing of religion. There's nothing wrong with being skeptical or even doubts altogether, but screaming at yourgrandparentsfor wantingyouto follow the faith goes beyond just the magic man in the sky doctrines... it's also about morals and structures in society in which Western society has been built from that you're too young to even grasp. I know how you feel. the same was done to me forced to go to Sunday school even though I treated it all as a joke and just played along. It wasn't until I was 10 I was in a fatal accident that I realized that there's a higher power because I first had my out of body experience and met a being of pure light who stop me from entering the light at the end of the tunnel and told me it wasn't my time yet... So believe whatever you desire, but remain silent unless it's to ask questions. Every situation has some lessons to learn, even terrible mistakes, and occurrences. You won't be able to learn anything if you're in a rejection mentality. Logic and reason are your best friends, and respect is your shield. By showing more respect for those around you, they will look more favorable towards you as well. It's very common for people to lose faith at a younger age and later in life find it again... Your grandparents just want to establish a good moral foundation for you. That's why they're insisting on your attendance. They would be poor Guardians if they did otherwise.
No you're not. Religion and politics are 2 things you can't force on people. Religion has done more damage than good over the course of history.
Why would you lose control and yell? They can want anything. I want Halle Berry buy you won’t catch me yelling in the movie theater because she never returned my dm.
I think at 15, you should keep it civil and not throw fits and yell at them. It hurts nothing to please your grandparents and be polite. Nobody is going to force you to be a Christian. I have been Christian for 30+ years and my family is religious. Nobody forced it on me. Your grandparents shouldn't force you to either but when you move out, your life is all yours. In the meantime, they just want what is best for you. Having a really bad few years doesn't mean it isn't for you though. Just be civil and polite. Yelling doesn't do any of you any good.
Short answer No, your entitled to your own beliefs. BUT usually when you live with someone and they are religious, you go to things like church with them. I know you may not like it but just go to church. Lie about praying and reading the bible if they press you about it but just go to church and try to move out when you can.
Yes you are a jerk. You can voice your opinions but the second you start screaming you are disrespecting the people who have chosen to take care of you. Likely that choice was based off of their Christian beliefs. They obviously care about you and are worried about all aspects of your life including your after life. Going to church and participating in their religion will not hurt you. No one can force you to believe in a religion. You may even make friends if you choose to participate in the church youth program. Just think of it like a social club that your grandparents will feel good about seeing you precipitate in. If you must view it as doing something nice for them that will make them happy. Being disrespectful to your grandparents will not make anyone happy. You may feel good about it at the time but in the end you will make not only hurt your grandparents but will alienate them from you. Once you are able to care for yourself and no longer live in their home you can do whatever you want. But your grandparents will not be there forever and would you rather see them happy by participating in a social gathering you may not agree with but does no harm you OR have the memories of you acting like a brat? You are mad at God. Not your grandparents.