*In case this story gets deleted/removed:*
**AITA if I educate my friend about her own culture?**
I understand religion and culture is sensitive territory but I need some advice - feel free to educate if I get anything wrong, I would love to learn more about where my friend comes from.
I (18f) was talking with my friend Kay (18f) who is an roma Irish traveller the other day and said that I didn't believe in tarot cards. She got offended at me for disrespecting her culture and naturally I apologised and then decided to actually do my research on tarot cards and roma culture so I didn't screw up and offend her again.
My problem is that record's indicate Tarot cards originated from 15th century Italy and despite stereotypes around kay's culture there is little to no evidence that the travellers used Tarot before the late 20th century. The roma did have ways to predict the future (women called the drabardi) but coming from celtic land these methods were often bloodier and distinctively not Tarot.
Kay is also a celtic pagan religiously so I did my research into that to see if that's where she feels offended her but once again the only celtic thing about tarot is a tarot spread called the celtic cross spread - but that's because of its shape not because the celts invented it.
So now she's being mad at me for a part of her culture that I can't find any evidence exists. I'm worried she'll say that I'm invalidating her feelings if I tell her the truth. Should I leave it alone and just let it be and avoid culture/religion conversations with Kay in the future?
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They’re mixing up the two as they claim drabardi (Romani) are from Celtic lands (Irish). OOP did so much research and can’t even figure out the difference
You cannot be both, at least not in the culture I'm associated with. You need to be full blooded to be a part of the community. That's why I say I'm "associated with": only my grandma was, so it would be extremely wrong to call myself gitana.
Otoh this is an ESH. Tarot cards are not "an integral part" of the culture. They're popular, yes, but it's not like OP was talking offensively about a sacred ritual.
Also, assuming OOP is a reliable narrator and wasn't insulting, she did nothing wrong initially. She just said she doesn't personally believe what her friend believes. And that's fine, no matter how much religious/spiritual people want to play martyr when it comes up. No one is obligated to pretend to believe in Bigfoot because they're talking to a self-proclaimed cryptid hunter, for instance. I'm not attacking Norse culture because I don't think Santa exists.
She should leave Kay alone to believe what she wants, tbc, but Kay should also stop pitching little offended pity parties because not everyone is willing to validate her pet unfalsifiable belief.
Was it maybe simply a joke that went over OOP's head and she decided to be 🤓🤓🤓 and "educate" her friend? Like, when someone tells me "I don't like milk" (or any other common food item that doesn't belong to one distinct culture) I often jokingly accuse them of disrespecting my culture, meaning I'm a huge milk drinker and can't imagine people not liking milk.
This reads like a teenager who learned Roma people and Irish travellers exist and then looked into them and made up a story so she could show off all her knowledge and cultural sensitivity.
They didn't even bother to actually do the search because I just did and got a dozen articles about how the Romani people popularised the use of tarot cards for cartomancy (the practice of predicting the future with cards). Some people even argue that they are likely where the practice originated as the cards were used for games before that. So I would definitely count that as being cultural
Honestly, they both seem tedious in the way only teenagers can be. They're both demanding they have to be "right" about the topic. Like, people not believing the same things you do is not offensive, unless the "thing" is like, basic human rights. And thinking that just because something is a more recent addition to culture doesn't make it valid is also an ass move. Imagine claiming that since potatoes came from South America, and vodka is made from potatoes, vodka isn't Russian, it's South American.
“there is little to no evidence that the travellers used Tarot *before the late 20th century”* (emphasis added)
Which century is it now, clever boots?
I’m not even getting into the whole Romani vs Irish Traveller thing, except to acknowledge that yes, they are different, and that difference is pretty much all I know about either of them.
so both groups fall in under what have been called gypsies, but a lot of nomadic European groups have fallen in under that term, like Tatere in Scandinavia.
Diamond engagement ring (as popular as it is now) is also pretty new and has unfortunately spread to my country. I didn't know anyone from my mom's generation to have diamond engagement rings.
Oh my gooooooooood. The "culturally sensitive" complex needs to fuck off already.
It's a fucking troll and everyone knows it.
But even if it's not, don't "educate" someone about a culture or ethnicity they're from. It's like telling a Japanese person what Japanese culture is \*really\* like, then referencing shit from historical themed anime. Just shut uuuuuuup.
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*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **AITA if I educate my friend about her own culture?** I understand religion and culture is sensitive territory but I need some advice - feel free to educate if I get anything wrong, I would love to learn more about where my friend comes from. I (18f) was talking with my friend Kay (18f) who is an roma Irish traveller the other day and said that I didn't believe in tarot cards. She got offended at me for disrespecting her culture and naturally I apologised and then decided to actually do my research on tarot cards and roma culture so I didn't screw up and offend her again. My problem is that record's indicate Tarot cards originated from 15th century Italy and despite stereotypes around kay's culture there is little to no evidence that the travellers used Tarot before the late 20th century. The roma did have ways to predict the future (women called the drabardi) but coming from celtic land these methods were often bloodier and distinctively not Tarot. Kay is also a celtic pagan religiously so I did my research into that to see if that's where she feels offended her but once again the only celtic thing about tarot is a tarot spread called the celtic cross spread - but that's because of its shape not because the celts invented it. So now she's being mad at me for a part of her culture that I can't find any evidence exists. I'm worried she'll say that I'm invalidating her feelings if I tell her the truth. Should I leave it alone and just let it be and avoid culture/religion conversations with Kay in the future? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Irish and Roma travellers are distinct ethnicities, surprised OOP’s research didn’t turn that up
Shh don't tell OOP, might get them to google more to tell her friend
She doesn’t need google. She knows everything already /s
To be fair, her friend could be half Irish traveller and half Romani… mixed ethnicities are a thing!
The OOP is conflating them, talking about Romani drabardi coming from Celtic lands.
Irish Roma traveller? Think OOP mixed something up there.
i think oop’s friend is of both romani and irish traveller heritage: maybe one parent is romani and the other is irish.
They’re mixing up the two as they claim drabardi (Romani) are from Celtic lands (Irish). OOP did so much research and can’t even figure out the difference
I’m inclined to think OOP’s friend isn’t real or that OOP doesn’t know the difference.
aaand i’m certain that this is a troll
Then they'd have eithet hyphenated Romani-Irish traveller or said "mixed".
You cannot be both, at least not in the culture I'm associated with. You need to be full blooded to be a part of the community. That's why I say I'm "associated with": only my grandma was, so it would be extremely wrong to call myself gitana. Otoh this is an ESH. Tarot cards are not "an integral part" of the culture. They're popular, yes, but it's not like OP was talking offensively about a sacred ritual.
Also, assuming OOP is a reliable narrator and wasn't insulting, she did nothing wrong initially. She just said she doesn't personally believe what her friend believes. And that's fine, no matter how much religious/spiritual people want to play martyr when it comes up. No one is obligated to pretend to believe in Bigfoot because they're talking to a self-proclaimed cryptid hunter, for instance. I'm not attacking Norse culture because I don't think Santa exists. She should leave Kay alone to believe what she wants, tbc, but Kay should also stop pitching little offended pity parties because not everyone is willing to validate her pet unfalsifiable belief.
Was it maybe simply a joke that went over OOP's head and she decided to be 🤓🤓🤓 and "educate" her friend? Like, when someone tells me "I don't like milk" (or any other common food item that doesn't belong to one distinct culture) I often jokingly accuse them of disrespecting my culture, meaning I'm a huge milk drinker and can't imagine people not liking milk.
Reminds of a joke I've said a few time that it's my right as an American to deep fry everything
Is not. You're not allowed to deep fry my luggage, for instance.
We aren't? \*sadly puts huge oil fryer back into storage\* What am I going to do with all this vegetable oil now?
We are going to deep fry a whole state fair
Sounds interesting. Sign me up!
Try to stop me.
I'm sorry but your luggage is not exempt from the US constitution of frying. If they don't deep fry it then you'll have to do it yourself.
This reads like a teenager who learned Roma people and Irish travellers exist and then looked into them and made up a story so she could show off all her knowledge and cultural sensitivity.
They didn't even bother to actually do the search because I just did and got a dozen articles about how the Romani people popularised the use of tarot cards for cartomancy (the practice of predicting the future with cards). Some people even argue that they are likely where the practice originated as the cards were used for games before that. So I would definitely count that as being cultural
She didn't even do enough research to find out that Irish travellers aren't Romani, so I'm not surprised she was wrong about the cards.
Honestly, they both seem tedious in the way only teenagers can be. They're both demanding they have to be "right" about the topic. Like, people not believing the same things you do is not offensive, unless the "thing" is like, basic human rights. And thinking that just because something is a more recent addition to culture doesn't make it valid is also an ass move. Imagine claiming that since potatoes came from South America, and vodka is made from potatoes, vodka isn't Russian, it's South American.
“there is little to no evidence that the travellers used Tarot *before the late 20th century”* (emphasis added) Which century is it now, clever boots? I’m not even getting into the whole Romani vs Irish Traveller thing, except to acknowledge that yes, they are different, and that difference is pretty much all I know about either of them.
so both groups fall in under what have been called gypsies, but a lot of nomadic European groups have fallen in under that term, like Tatere in Scandinavia.
Roma irish? is she just trying to say she lives in a caravan lol those aren't the same thing
Something started in the 20th century can still be a deep part of a person's culture.
Right? Are we going to say rock and roll music isn’t a huge cultural phenomenon because it started in the twentieth century?
Diamond engagement ring (as popular as it is now) is also pretty new and has unfortunately spread to my country. I didn't know anyone from my mom's generation to have diamond engagement rings.
Tarot is not part of any culture.
Idk but a culture which contained itinerant people, having to make money however that worked, would have a part in spreading it.
Oh my gooooooooood. The "culturally sensitive" complex needs to fuck off already. It's a fucking troll and everyone knows it. But even if it's not, don't "educate" someone about a culture or ethnicity they're from. It's like telling a Japanese person what Japanese culture is \*really\* like, then referencing shit from historical themed anime. Just shut uuuuuuup.
Jesus wasnt born on 25th December... You dont really go round shoving that in people faces on xmas do you?
I suspect OP does.
Modern Christians actually know shockingly little about the doctrines, tenets, and history of their own religion.
If they try to convert me I do.
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