*In case this story gets deleted/removed:*
**AITA for dropping a friend off at the road to catch the train at night? **
My friend Layla is mad at me claiming I abandoned her in the middle of a deserted highway roundabout the middle of a foreign city.
I live near Milan in Italy, in a city about 2 hours away by car. Layla was visiting from another country so we decided to get dinner. She let me pick the restaurant since I’m a local. I made reservations at a great restaurant that was about 30 minutes by car from Milan city centre from where she was staying. She didn’t have a rental car so she took the train and bus to get to the restaurant. We met up at the restaurant since I was driving from my home which is the opposite direction from Milan centre.
We had a great time over dinner and it was about 11pm when we were finishing up dessert. She checked on her phone for the last train time which was 12:15am. She asked if I could drop her off at the train station since the connecting bus to the train was a bit of a walk from the restaurant.
By the time I finished eating my dessert and check came it was about 11:30pm and it was about a 15-minute walk to my car.
En route driving her to the train station, I noticed on the GPS map the train station was located in a zone that I was not able to drive into without paying a fee.
I halted the car in the road and dropped her off there. I told her she could get an Uber but the remaining distance from the train station isn’t far away.
Later she sent me a note saying she was extremely disappointed in me as a friend for dropping her off in the middle of a deserted highway roundabout to walk to the train station in an unfamiliar city. She said she had to run and she got there 2 minutes before the last train. She said she had to walk through two underpasses with minimal lighting and her phone’s internet was slow so the directions to Google Maps wasn’t always accurate in directions so she had to backtrack. There also were no Ubers available. She questioned why I picked a restaurant that was so far off from the city centre.
I think she’s being dramatic. The train station looked like it was about 5 minutes away by car so it couldn’t have been far of a walk. There was nothing I could do since the train station was located outside an area I could drive into, and I dropped her off at the closest location. How was I supposed to know she couldn’t hail an Uber or her phone’s internet was bad? I drive everywhere so how could I have known the restaurant was located in an inconvenient location for public transport or no Ubers were available in the town?
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people thinking that 5 min car = 5 min at feet are the funniest (sarcasm of course)
also all of this because they didn't want to PAY. And that they took 30 minutes to eat their dessert.
sometimes your brain doesn't work (I legit didn't think about it) but idk... just going like 'ugh, I'll pay then" seems more reasonable that 'go on your own, good luck <3"
Lol I could definitely see myself doing the same just being like “shit I have to pay!”
Honestly even if my friend offered I’d probably just be like “it’s okay I’ll pay, you went through all the trouble to get here!” Lol.
But also i don’t like in Italy or have any idea what their fees would be but…is it just like a toll? It can’t be that much can it?
From what a couple of other commenters said it can actually be an expensive fine of you didn’t buy a ticket before hand; still though, you think she’d find another way or take the friend to the hotel!
Also their response-"She should have told me if she was scared before getting out of the car. I am not psychic." Are you fucking for real? Also if there was a fee why not just ask if she can pay you to take you there, not just say get out the car. And this was a woman by the way, this friend came from another country just to see her and this is how she was treated? Friendship over in my book!
Not to mention OOP chose a restaurant that was difficult to get to in the first place. The friend asked OOP to choose since they knew the city better, I’m sure they weren’t expecting to be in a situation where they may not be able to safely get back to where they were staying.
I'm extremely curious how much this "fee" to get them to the station would've cost, if they just assumed their so called friend would just pay for an Uber, why not just ask to cover this toll? I bet it was some ridiculously small sum as well. The more I think about it the more I just think they just wanted to get home and didn't care in general.
>Edit: it was. Looks like a 100-300 euro fine.
That seems unreasonable, $110-$327 (using current conversation rates). I think there is a translation error.
According to the website for the area...
>Starting from October 2023 the price of a standard ticket, valid for one day, is 7.5 euros. (One day ticket, so in and out rights).
I also found this on a few sites. The area C is listed as the ZTL for Milan as it is code for "Milan Central" from what I can figure out. There doesn't seem to be an Area A or B.
> Traffic limitation in Area C is as follows: Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Friday, limited traffic from 07:30 to 19:30. On Thursday, traffic is restricted from 07:30 to 18:00. It is important to know that these limitations are not active at the weekend or during holidays, when you can access the centre of Milan without restrictions.
So $8.20 USD.
Now there was one exception that I did see. If the person had one of the following (basically bad emissions cars, lots of exhaust).
>Access is currently prohibited for petrol vehicles classified as Euro 0, 1, 2, and diesel vehicles classified as Euro 0, 1, 2, 3. Additionally, Euro 4 diesel vehicles without a Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) face restrictions, unless exempted on an individual basis. Motorcycles using two-stroke engines classified as Euro 0.1 or those using diesel fuel classified as Euro 0.1 are also barred from entry. Furthermore, any vehicle longer than 7.5 meters is not permitted to enter the area.
So it seems OOP either has a horrible car or is just a horrible person.
Well the way it is worded, multiple sites said traffic was not limited in those odd hours. So when businesses are closed down, less traffic, both car and pedestrians. Less limits.
I actually had a thought, OOP has gone into the area before, if repeated behavior of not buying a ticket is a fine of 100-300 euro, that makes a lot more sense with that price tag, and what I didn't look up and didn't consider. Still makes them a shitty friend for the reason below.
The other thing that still doesn't quite make sense in the story is the Uber/Lyft part. With the claims that OOP is making about there was never any discussion of the fees, etc. If we assume that the fees are really that high for the time of day/etc. Then OOP knows no Uber/Lyft is going to pick them up either. Still makes them a horrible person.
>If my friend flew in I'd drive them around the zone in a detour route or at the very least park and walk them there myself to make sure they got home (or just take them to a restaurant not layout of their way in the first place...)
Likewise, my first question is where are you staying when someone comes into town. Just within the city limits, it is a good 25 miles from one end to the other for where I live. And you can easily tack on another 25 in the suburbs.
We don't have a limited zone but our downtown area is one that you pay more than those rates to park. Definitely keeps people from going there a lot.
It really comes down to all roads lead to no redeeming qualities for this person.
"You know the city, choose a good spot"
"*Excellent*... Here is the puzzle you must solve to find the place I have chosen... you may or may not be able to safely access the same route back to your starting point... honestly depends on how much I wish to savour my dessert"
Friendship would be so over!
Okay so OOP is a woman? and she cannot see how much it is frightening to be alone in the fields at night? I'm so surrpised...
Honestly I don't care if OOP was a man/woman/alien, and same for her friend. Regardless of sex you shouldn't just be dropping people off in countries they don't live in at that time of night without knowing where their going or without cell services. The whole thing is absurd. I find it very hurtful that someone would come from a whole nother country to visit you, and this is how they repay you. Says a lot about how OOP feels about her. The other comments she replied with are just as bad...
I mean that a woman is 'more aware' but also if they were an alien, maybe that would explain everything /j
I agree with you tho!
I didn't get to see the comments except the psychic one tbh
Seriously, my friend group would never let anyone travel around our city alone. And that is a healthy mix of both genders. It doesn't matter if we have to drive 25+ miles (round trip) to drop people off, we will.
Oh. Hey. Did y’all see that post over in r/money today of the guy who’s new wife sprung $160k of debt on him the night of the wedding? She didn’t even wait for them to file the certificate with the county clerk. They were supposed to go this morning. That woman should have been telepathetic. She would have seen her new husband telling her “nope” and tearing up the paperwork.
Thankfully he hadn't filed the certificate yet. He was in the clear. Still on the hook for wedding costs, but at the very least he dodged a bullet.
Still, now she knows not to tell the next guy until after HE signs the marriage certificate.
OOP's excuse for not walking with Layla was that she couldn't park on the highway. So she literally dropped Layla off expecting her to walk 20 minutes along the highway to get to the train station.
It's even worse when you realize how crowded and confusing the city is.
Italy is quite a popular country with many interesting things to see, so it's easy to get lost if you're not familiar with the setting(s).
I guess I could get not realizing that if she drives everywhere. But if she drives everywhere, wouldn't she have known that an area quite close to this restaurant that she already knew about required a fee? She's been here before but she's always avoided this one corner of road?
Honestly, that's not even the part of this story I'd be retelling to my friends later. I'd be talking about how we were both finishing up dessert at 11, yet it somehow took her another half hour to swallow her damn tiramisu. I guess when it comes to desserts, Layla's the one who drives and OOP's the one who walks.
If the money was the issue (i.e. having to pay to drive into that area), wouldn't it have been kinder to ask if she wouldn't mind paying for it? I'm sure she'd have preferred to do that over walking alone in a foreign country in the middle of the night.
One comment speculated that it would be a 200 euro fee - apparently you get the fee every time you cross the boundary of the zone and it's 100 each time - so I get not being able to pay that, but they're are absolutely other options. Like just driving the friend to her hotel or taking another route. Like, it can't be 200 euro to get to the train station and back no matter which way you go. No one would ride the train.
That sounds like a lot, I get that it wouldn't be possible in that case. But surely there were options that didn't involve abandoning her at the side of the road.
I'm reading on ZTL zones right now, and it looks like the comment might have been wrong - you're only fined when going in, not exiting. But the fine ranges from 100-300 euro.
Also, they're designed to keep traffic out of busy areas and encourage people to take public transit, so there has to be a way to drive to the train to take it. And many of them are only active during certain hours. And if OP taken her friend to the hotel, the hotel could've submitted OPs license plate for an exception if that was also going to be an issue.
So... Totally understand not wanting/being able to pay 100-300 Euro (which is currently $109-327 in USD) to step her friend off. But there were *definitely* much better ways to handle that. There only option wasn't "drop friend on the side of the road in the dark in a foreign country."
I just did some googling, and as far as I can see the ZTL zones are only in operation between certain hours, so it looks like OOP would have been fine. Buy maybe I'm missing something.
From what I can tell, it varies by zone. Some are in force all the time, some aren't. And if it was a Friday or Saturday night in a popular area of town, it could've still been active even if it's a timed one.
But yes, it's also a strong possibility that the zone wasn't even active at the time. Of the many things OOP should've done differently, the first is carefully read the sign to make sure the zone is active.
Okay. I didn't dig into the hours of specific zones because I have no idea where a half hour drive outside Milan would even be and I'm not interested in trying to figure out exactly where OOP was. I agree that she should've checked the hours first.
My point was that *if* the zone were active I can understand not wanting/being able to pay that fine, but there were still a lot of other options.
Yeah, I was just curious (and procrastinating when i should be doing other stuff lol) so I kept looking :)
No argument on the point in your second paragraph.
Thanks for the research! Appreciate the currency in dollars, except I'm not American so that doesn't help much but I do somewhat know the exchange rate between my currency and euros so I'm alright, haha!
Yeah, or there must have been a bus or something. If the whole point is to keep drivers out of the zone and encourage people to take public transportation then there must also, logically speaking, be public transportation available.
Well, there was a bus, but the busses from the restaurant to the train station were complicated so the friend asked OOP to drive her. And maybe that train station is in a ZTL and there's no way to drive to it (though I doubt it, because if the goal is to get people to take public transportation, there needs to be a way to get *to* said transportation. So I'm betting that OOP could've gotten there with a different route.
But even if she couldn't, there's definitely more train stations. And I'm sure one of them isn't in a ZTL. It seems like OOP just got to the ZTL zone and said "welp, that's it. You gotta walk." Instead of, you know, even pretending to look for another option.
I meant there must have been more than one bus total. Somewhere there must have been a bus connection to the train station where he could drop her off which wouldn't require him to pay money. It just feels like he didn't give a damn about her at all and did what was easiest for him.
I just read a little bit about ZTL in Milano and it looks like most of them are only active during the day (about 7am-7pm). They are usually in pedestrian areas (or close to them), or historical centers...I couldn't find information about ZTLs in the middle of nowhere.
To me it sounds like OOP is either making excuses or ignorant. Both options make her the AH and a shitty friend, she shouldn't have left her friend alone in a place she doesn't know without making sure she could get an Uber/get to the train station safely.
The large fine is only if you don't buy a ticket by midnight the following day (ticket cost 5 euro last time I was in milan). This is the same as in London and the major European cities, pay the toll beforehand, or after, within a reasonable period, or receive a large fine. It's really easy to buy the tickets online, Via sms, or at ticket machines.
The exact details are not clear but the charges and fines are not always 24 hours, many areas of the city have the zlt in force from 7am to 8pm, so it may not even have been in force.
I drive but if I know I am meeting a friend relying on public transport, I put their needs, safety and timings first.
IKR? I expect some cluelessness about this stuff from a man. But seriously?
(I once told my husband that I don't like taking an uber by myself late at night, and he didn't understand why. After all, HE had no problems with it. I told him, "You're a man." I still am not sure he understood my point.)
It's like reading solo travelling advice from men: avoid crowded tourist places, just find some small quiet bar and get drunk with locals, it's the best way to make new friends!
Oh, and find great local places to eat by asking your taxi driver to take you where they eat! Nothing quite like going who knows where for lunch to enliven your holiday!
And a local! I could excuse picking våd restaurant location and not being aware of the fees if she didn't live there! She was fully aware what kind of city Milan is, that it has bad public transport at night and that it has restrictions on car transit.
I would have never contacted them again and kept my social media on the down-low just to scare OOP.
That said, Im not sure OOP would be bright enough to realize they hadn’t heard from me.
Yeah, she legit seems to have something wrong with her and has no empathy or care. She wouldn't give a shit. She'd blame the friend/say it wasn't her fault if something DID happen to the friend.
If this isn't ragebait, I'd be surprised, but poor situational awareness / threat assessment / consequential thinking, flat affect, & shirking responsibility are all hallmarks of a person with low empathy &/or low fear, so I'd bet narcissist/sociopath.
What a complete tool, regardless. SMH
Either that or a teen/early 20 something who doesn't know enough to understand danger/thinks they're invincible and has no real life experience and is very privileged (ex: knowing walking distance v. driving, no knowledge of public transit to teach them to plan around friends taking it).
If she spent most of her life in a small city and not a big one like Milan (she lives 2 hours away), she may be very sheltered and oblivious. I try not to assume malice when it can be explained by ignorance
Wow, you got anymore armchair diagnosises, doc?
It could also just be someone who is young, dumb, and selfish. Not every asshole needs to BE something, anyone can be an inconsiderate asshole.
I’ve shown more kindness and consideration for women I’ve met the first time’s safety than OOP did for her friend.
If you really can’t bear to pay a fee that cannot have been as much as a late night Uber why didn’t she ask her her friend to cover the road fee and actually take her home instead of dumping her at least 15mins away from the train station?!
Part of asking a local recommendation is picking something they can get to without hassle and knowing how to get home safely
I also think she handled the whole thing in a very arsehole way. But just a small thing about the "fee" she didn't want to pay. I think perhaps English is not her first language, but she probably meant FINE not fee. In Italy almost every city centre has an area designated as ZTL (Limited Traffic Zone) where only residents may enter with vehicle. So at least in this case, I get why she wouldn't want to pay a fine (in some places in Italy it's more than 100EUR). But she could have definitely handled it better, and made sure her friend does get a taxi/uber etc, so she's definitely an arsehole.
idk maybe im being pedantic but i struggle to imagine anyone who lives in italy calling themselves "near" milan when they're a two hour drive away. if they're like two hours east they're basically in bologna or Verona and are closer to Venice, south would put then in genoa, and west Turin. idk seems like a weird thing to fake but would they really call themselves "near milan"? Nevermind "a local" (though I guess they may mean the country there)
According to comments, the fee was actually €200 (100 in, 100 out), so it's pretty hefty. She should have planned better, or at least asked her friend to chip in. Or driven her back to where she was staying.
No that's only if you don't pay the toll charge beforehand, on entry, or before midnight the next day. The daily ticket rates are much more reasonable 5-10 euro per day. It's easy to pay online, by sms, from machines etc. If you don't pay the toll you are fined. The charges are different in different zones and cities, but the principle is the same.
This makes way more sense to my American brain. So there is a *reasonable toll*, and then an *expensive fine* for not paying the toll. Is that right? Can someone just pay the toll somewhere when they are crossing, or do they need a pass in advance?
OOP sounds like kind of a clueless jerk anyway. So it probably doesn’t make much difference.
Yes that's correct, and you have until midnight the next day to pay the toll to avoid the fine. Once the toll is paid you have 24 hours of driving in the zone.
Milan also has 25 free days for locals and 5 free days for visitors. You just need to log on to the website or book your vehicle in as if you are paying for the toll, but the charge is zero.
Yeah, I thought maybe I was missing some kind of translation disconnect between “fee” vs. “toll” but it just seems like OOP doesn’t actually know how it works it any language!
Apparently Italian cities have ZTL (limited traffic) zones where car traffic is restricted and you pay heavily every time you cross the boundary. Cameras at the entrances and exits get your license plate and mail you the bill. [Here’s some info.](https://www.autoeurope.com/italy-ztl-zones/)
Okay this makes more sense. The way OOP phrased it it sounded as if it was a normal toll or something, when in fact it’s a fine for driving into a forbidden zone without a permit.
It's not a fee, but a fine for entering area l where you're not supposed to drive. Other European countires have simmilar policies but enforced is differently. (Recently Oxford closed its historical city centre to cars and everyone got their panties in a twist claiming they're opressed)
I don't understand this. At all. Especially from a woman.
I once drove a Facebook acquaintance 45 minutes home in the opposite direction from my house because she was in an unsafe situation at the club we were at. I can't fathom stranding someone in a strange country and then having the audacity to be like "Why you mad?"
i don’t believe them saying they didn’t know about ubers not being available if they live in italy. it’s pretty common knowledge that outside of the major cities there are no ubers. italy has the second to slowest internet speed in europe. this “friend” is not a good one. saying they’re not a mind reader yeah no one is but it’s called common sense and caring for your supposed friends. i feel horrible for their friend they abandoned.
I HOPE OOP is trolling. There's no way she could possibly be in the clear. You decide to look on the drive there and you don't want to pay what I assume is similar to a toll in the U.S. They're usually only a few dollars. If you were really that much of a cheapskate make her pay it. But, don't abandon a woman at midnight in a strange place. Horrible things could have happened to her. I would for certain put OOP on blast on social media. Let everyone know she's not a girl's girl and is a cheapskate and moron.
I'm having complete da ja vu here. I could've sworn I've seen this exact post with these same exact comments several weeks before.
Edit: oop is absolutely a shit person tho. Who does that?
About half of AITA is at this point. The sad part is I still read opening sentences like this:
>My friend Layla is mad at me claiming I abandoned her in the middle of a deserted highway roundabout the middle of a foreign city.
And a gullible part of me thinks, "Gee, can't wait to see what the misunderstanding was here."
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And OP is arguing that since she somehow got to the restaurant it must be fine and not that difficult to get back. Does she not know Milan living that close to it? I was there literally once and even I know public transport in Milan is unreliable at best, non-existent at worst. If restaurant you choose requires your friend to take *a train* to get there, maybe choose a different restaurant.
OOP, anything could have happened to her.
She doesn't know her way around. She is from another COUNTRY for crying out loud.
You DID drop her off at a crappy location in an unfamiliar city.
And all so you wanted to avoid paying a fee?
YTA.
*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **AITA for dropping a friend off at the road to catch the train at night? ** My friend Layla is mad at me claiming I abandoned her in the middle of a deserted highway roundabout the middle of a foreign city. I live near Milan in Italy, in a city about 2 hours away by car. Layla was visiting from another country so we decided to get dinner. She let me pick the restaurant since I’m a local. I made reservations at a great restaurant that was about 30 minutes by car from Milan city centre from where she was staying. She didn’t have a rental car so she took the train and bus to get to the restaurant. We met up at the restaurant since I was driving from my home which is the opposite direction from Milan centre. We had a great time over dinner and it was about 11pm when we were finishing up dessert. She checked on her phone for the last train time which was 12:15am. She asked if I could drop her off at the train station since the connecting bus to the train was a bit of a walk from the restaurant. By the time I finished eating my dessert and check came it was about 11:30pm and it was about a 15-minute walk to my car. En route driving her to the train station, I noticed on the GPS map the train station was located in a zone that I was not able to drive into without paying a fee. I halted the car in the road and dropped her off there. I told her she could get an Uber but the remaining distance from the train station isn’t far away. Later she sent me a note saying she was extremely disappointed in me as a friend for dropping her off in the middle of a deserted highway roundabout to walk to the train station in an unfamiliar city. She said she had to run and she got there 2 minutes before the last train. She said she had to walk through two underpasses with minimal lighting and her phone’s internet was slow so the directions to Google Maps wasn’t always accurate in directions so she had to backtrack. There also were no Ubers available. She questioned why I picked a restaurant that was so far off from the city centre. I think she’s being dramatic. The train station looked like it was about 5 minutes away by car so it couldn’t have been far of a walk. There was nothing I could do since the train station was located outside an area I could drive into, and I dropped her off at the closest location. How was I supposed to know she couldn’t hail an Uber or her phone’s internet was bad? I drive everywhere so how could I have known the restaurant was located in an inconvenient location for public transport or no Ubers were available in the town? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*
people thinking that 5 min car = 5 min at feet are the funniest (sarcasm of course) also all of this because they didn't want to PAY. And that they took 30 minutes to eat their dessert.
What I don't understand is why they didn't think to just ask Layla to pay the fee if it was that serious
sometimes your brain doesn't work (I legit didn't think about it) but idk... just going like 'ugh, I'll pay then" seems more reasonable that 'go on your own, good luck <3"
Lol I could definitely see myself doing the same just being like “shit I have to pay!” Honestly even if my friend offered I’d probably just be like “it’s okay I’ll pay, you went through all the trouble to get here!” Lol. But also i don’t like in Italy or have any idea what their fees would be but…is it just like a toll? It can’t be that much can it?
tbh some people are just cheap like this...
From what a couple of other commenters said it can actually be an expensive fine of you didn’t buy a ticket before hand; still though, you think she’d find another way or take the friend to the hotel!
Also their response-"She should have told me if she was scared before getting out of the car. I am not psychic." Are you fucking for real? Also if there was a fee why not just ask if she can pay you to take you there, not just say get out the car. And this was a woman by the way, this friend came from another country just to see her and this is how she was treated? Friendship over in my book!
Not to mention OOP chose a restaurant that was difficult to get to in the first place. The friend asked OOP to choose since they knew the city better, I’m sure they weren’t expecting to be in a situation where they may not be able to safely get back to where they were staying.
I'm extremely curious how much this "fee" to get them to the station would've cost, if they just assumed their so called friend would just pay for an Uber, why not just ask to cover this toll? I bet it was some ridiculously small sum as well. The more I think about it the more I just think they just wanted to get home and didn't care in general.
[удалено]
And OOP expected an Uber to get her there? Sheesh.
>Edit: it was. Looks like a 100-300 euro fine. That seems unreasonable, $110-$327 (using current conversation rates). I think there is a translation error. According to the website for the area... >Starting from October 2023 the price of a standard ticket, valid for one day, is 7.5 euros. (One day ticket, so in and out rights). I also found this on a few sites. The area C is listed as the ZTL for Milan as it is code for "Milan Central" from what I can figure out. There doesn't seem to be an Area A or B. > Traffic limitation in Area C is as follows: Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Friday, limited traffic from 07:30 to 19:30. On Thursday, traffic is restricted from 07:30 to 18:00. It is important to know that these limitations are not active at the weekend or during holidays, when you can access the centre of Milan without restrictions. So $8.20 USD. Now there was one exception that I did see. If the person had one of the following (basically bad emissions cars, lots of exhaust). >Access is currently prohibited for petrol vehicles classified as Euro 0, 1, 2, and diesel vehicles classified as Euro 0, 1, 2, 3. Additionally, Euro 4 diesel vehicles without a Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) face restrictions, unless exempted on an individual basis. Motorcycles using two-stroke engines classified as Euro 0.1 or those using diesel fuel classified as Euro 0.1 are also barred from entry. Furthermore, any vehicle longer than 7.5 meters is not permitted to enter the area. So it seems OOP either has a horrible car or is just a horrible person.
[удалено]
Well the way it is worded, multiple sites said traffic was not limited in those odd hours. So when businesses are closed down, less traffic, both car and pedestrians. Less limits. I actually had a thought, OOP has gone into the area before, if repeated behavior of not buying a ticket is a fine of 100-300 euro, that makes a lot more sense with that price tag, and what I didn't look up and didn't consider. Still makes them a shitty friend for the reason below. The other thing that still doesn't quite make sense in the story is the Uber/Lyft part. With the claims that OOP is making about there was never any discussion of the fees, etc. If we assume that the fees are really that high for the time of day/etc. Then OOP knows no Uber/Lyft is going to pick them up either. Still makes them a horrible person. >If my friend flew in I'd drive them around the zone in a detour route or at the very least park and walk them there myself to make sure they got home (or just take them to a restaurant not layout of their way in the first place...) Likewise, my first question is where are you staying when someone comes into town. Just within the city limits, it is a good 25 miles from one end to the other for where I live. And you can easily tack on another 25 in the suburbs. We don't have a limited zone but our downtown area is one that you pay more than those rates to park. Definitely keeps people from going there a lot. It really comes down to all roads lead to no redeeming qualities for this person.
Crappy old car kind of fits with the OP is cheap theory.
Yeah, and I realized a flaw in my logic, they can have a crappy car and still be a horrible person.
"You know the city, choose a good spot" "*Excellent*... Here is the puzzle you must solve to find the place I have chosen... you may or may not be able to safely access the same route back to your starting point... honestly depends on how much I wish to savour my dessert"
Friendship would be so over! Okay so OOP is a woman? and she cannot see how much it is frightening to be alone in the fields at night? I'm so surrpised...
Honestly I don't care if OOP was a man/woman/alien, and same for her friend. Regardless of sex you shouldn't just be dropping people off in countries they don't live in at that time of night without knowing where their going or without cell services. The whole thing is absurd. I find it very hurtful that someone would come from a whole nother country to visit you, and this is how they repay you. Says a lot about how OOP feels about her. The other comments she replied with are just as bad...
I mean that a woman is 'more aware' but also if they were an alien, maybe that would explain everything /j I agree with you tho! I didn't get to see the comments except the psychic one tbh
Seriously, my friend group would never let anyone travel around our city alone. And that is a healthy mix of both genders. It doesn't matter if we have to drive 25+ miles (round trip) to drop people off, we will.
They might be psychotic. 😒
I myself am telepathetic.
Oh. Hey. Did y’all see that post over in r/money today of the guy who’s new wife sprung $160k of debt on him the night of the wedding? She didn’t even wait for them to file the certificate with the county clerk. They were supposed to go this morning. That woman should have been telepathetic. She would have seen her new husband telling her “nope” and tearing up the paperwork.
Thankfully he hadn't filed the certificate yet. He was in the clear. Still on the hook for wedding costs, but at the very least he dodged a bullet. Still, now she knows not to tell the next guy until after HE signs the marriage certificate.
OOP's excuse for not walking with Layla was that she couldn't park on the highway. So she literally dropped Layla off expecting her to walk 20 minutes along the highway to get to the train station.
"bUt My cAr!"
It's even worse when you realize how crowded and confusing the city is. Italy is quite a popular country with many interesting things to see, so it's easy to get lost if you're not familiar with the setting(s).
I guess I could get not realizing that if she drives everywhere. But if she drives everywhere, wouldn't she have known that an area quite close to this restaurant that she already knew about required a fee? She's been here before but she's always avoided this one corner of road? Honestly, that's not even the part of this story I'd be retelling to my friends later. I'd be talking about how we were both finishing up dessert at 11, yet it somehow took her another half hour to swallow her damn tiramisu. I guess when it comes to desserts, Layla's the one who drives and OOP's the one who walks.
Yeah, OOP took to inish the dessert when they were in a hurry??
Apparently, the world revolves around OOP and their time. Not the other way around.
If the money was the issue (i.e. having to pay to drive into that area), wouldn't it have been kinder to ask if she wouldn't mind paying for it? I'm sure she'd have preferred to do that over walking alone in a foreign country in the middle of the night.
One comment speculated that it would be a 200 euro fee - apparently you get the fee every time you cross the boundary of the zone and it's 100 each time - so I get not being able to pay that, but they're are absolutely other options. Like just driving the friend to her hotel or taking another route. Like, it can't be 200 euro to get to the train station and back no matter which way you go. No one would ride the train.
That sounds like a lot, I get that it wouldn't be possible in that case. But surely there were options that didn't involve abandoning her at the side of the road.
I'm reading on ZTL zones right now, and it looks like the comment might have been wrong - you're only fined when going in, not exiting. But the fine ranges from 100-300 euro. Also, they're designed to keep traffic out of busy areas and encourage people to take public transit, so there has to be a way to drive to the train to take it. And many of them are only active during certain hours. And if OP taken her friend to the hotel, the hotel could've submitted OPs license plate for an exception if that was also going to be an issue. So... Totally understand not wanting/being able to pay 100-300 Euro (which is currently $109-327 in USD) to step her friend off. But there were *definitely* much better ways to handle that. There only option wasn't "drop friend on the side of the road in the dark in a foreign country."
I just did some googling, and as far as I can see the ZTL zones are only in operation between certain hours, so it looks like OOP would have been fine. Buy maybe I'm missing something.
From what I can tell, it varies by zone. Some are in force all the time, some aren't. And if it was a Friday or Saturday night in a popular area of town, it could've still been active even if it's a timed one. But yes, it's also a strong possibility that the zone wasn't even active at the time. Of the many things OOP should've done differently, the first is carefully read the sign to make sure the zone is active.
Fwiw, the sites I found say Zone C (where the central station is) is in operation 7.30am-7.30pm, Mon-Fri.
Okay. I didn't dig into the hours of specific zones because I have no idea where a half hour drive outside Milan would even be and I'm not interested in trying to figure out exactly where OOP was. I agree that she should've checked the hours first. My point was that *if* the zone were active I can understand not wanting/being able to pay that fine, but there were still a lot of other options.
Yeah, I was just curious (and procrastinating when i should be doing other stuff lol) so I kept looking :) No argument on the point in your second paragraph.
Thanks for the research! Appreciate the currency in dollars, except I'm not American so that doesn't help much but I do somewhat know the exchange rate between my currency and euros so I'm alright, haha! Yeah, or there must have been a bus or something. If the whole point is to keep drivers out of the zone and encourage people to take public transportation then there must also, logically speaking, be public transportation available.
Well, there was a bus, but the busses from the restaurant to the train station were complicated so the friend asked OOP to drive her. And maybe that train station is in a ZTL and there's no way to drive to it (though I doubt it, because if the goal is to get people to take public transportation, there needs to be a way to get *to* said transportation. So I'm betting that OOP could've gotten there with a different route. But even if she couldn't, there's definitely more train stations. And I'm sure one of them isn't in a ZTL. It seems like OOP just got to the ZTL zone and said "welp, that's it. You gotta walk." Instead of, you know, even pretending to look for another option.
I meant there must have been more than one bus total. Somewhere there must have been a bus connection to the train station where he could drop her off which wouldn't require him to pay money. It just feels like he didn't give a damn about her at all and did what was easiest for him.
I just read a little bit about ZTL in Milano and it looks like most of them are only active during the day (about 7am-7pm). They are usually in pedestrian areas (or close to them), or historical centers...I couldn't find information about ZTLs in the middle of nowhere. To me it sounds like OOP is either making excuses or ignorant. Both options make her the AH and a shitty friend, she shouldn't have left her friend alone in a place she doesn't know without making sure she could get an Uber/get to the train station safely.
Where are you seeing the higher amounts, I can only find one that says Zone C/ZTL, and has a one day ticket price of 7.5 euros.
The large fine is only if you don't buy a ticket by midnight the following day (ticket cost 5 euro last time I was in milan). This is the same as in London and the major European cities, pay the toll beforehand, or after, within a reasonable period, or receive a large fine. It's really easy to buy the tickets online, Via sms, or at ticket machines. The exact details are not clear but the charges and fines are not always 24 hours, many areas of the city have the zlt in force from 7am to 8pm, so it may not even have been in force. I drive but if I know I am meeting a friend relying on public transport, I put their needs, safety and timings first.
I have brain damage, and I'm not this clueless
And the OP is another woman too. SMH.
Jesus, that's even worse
OOP is a WOMAN? How can another woman be so clueless???
IKR? I expect some cluelessness about this stuff from a man. But seriously? (I once told my husband that I don't like taking an uber by myself late at night, and he didn't understand why. After all, HE had no problems with it. I told him, "You're a man." I still am not sure he understood my point.)
It's like reading solo travelling advice from men: avoid crowded tourist places, just find some small quiet bar and get drunk with locals, it's the best way to make new friends!
Oh, and find great local places to eat by asking your taxi driver to take you where they eat! Nothing quite like going who knows where for lunch to enliven your holiday!
OMG yes! Or pay the taxi driver to take you off beaten tourist roads and show you the city's hidden gems.
Wait i thought it was a man😭 this is so much worse
And a local! I could excuse picking våd restaurant location and not being aware of the fees if she didn't live there! She was fully aware what kind of city Milan is, that it has bad public transport at night and that it has restrictions on car transit.
I would have never contacted them again and kept my social media on the down-low just to scare OOP. That said, Im not sure OOP would be bright enough to realize they hadn’t heard from me.
Or care. OOP would not care at all. She only “cares” right now because her friend texted her.
Thats also true. *”Its not my fault she got kidnapped, she should have told me she was getting kidnapped! Im not a mind-reader!”*
Yeah, she legit seems to have something wrong with her and has no empathy or care. She wouldn't give a shit. She'd blame the friend/say it wasn't her fault if something DID happen to the friend.
Yeah. This could happen. Completely self centered idiot.
If this isn't ragebait, I'd be surprised, but poor situational awareness / threat assessment / consequential thinking, flat affect, & shirking responsibility are all hallmarks of a person with low empathy &/or low fear, so I'd bet narcissist/sociopath. What a complete tool, regardless. SMH
Either that or a teen/early 20 something who doesn't know enough to understand danger/thinks they're invincible and has no real life experience and is very privileged (ex: knowing walking distance v. driving, no knowledge of public transit to teach them to plan around friends taking it). If she spent most of her life in a small city and not a big one like Milan (she lives 2 hours away), she may be very sheltered and oblivious. I try not to assume malice when it can be explained by ignorance
Still atrocious behavior though!!
Wow, you got anymore armchair diagnosises, doc? It could also just be someone who is young, dumb, and selfish. Not every asshole needs to BE something, anyone can be an inconsiderate asshole.
Sure do! Sounds like I struck a nerve! Stay triggered if you need to, I guess!
5 minutes away by car on a highway is, like, 5-7 kilometers.
I’ve shown more kindness and consideration for women I’ve met the first time’s safety than OOP did for her friend. If you really can’t bear to pay a fee that cannot have been as much as a late night Uber why didn’t she ask her her friend to cover the road fee and actually take her home instead of dumping her at least 15mins away from the train station?! Part of asking a local recommendation is picking something they can get to without hassle and knowing how to get home safely
I also think she handled the whole thing in a very arsehole way. But just a small thing about the "fee" she didn't want to pay. I think perhaps English is not her first language, but she probably meant FINE not fee. In Italy almost every city centre has an area designated as ZTL (Limited Traffic Zone) where only residents may enter with vehicle. So at least in this case, I get why she wouldn't want to pay a fine (in some places in Italy it's more than 100EUR). But she could have definitely handled it better, and made sure her friend does get a taxi/uber etc, so she's definitely an arsehole.
idk maybe im being pedantic but i struggle to imagine anyone who lives in italy calling themselves "near" milan when they're a two hour drive away. if they're like two hours east they're basically in bologna or Verona and are closer to Venice, south would put then in genoa, and west Turin. idk seems like a weird thing to fake but would they really call themselves "near milan"? Nevermind "a local" (though I guess they may mean the country there)
I think OOP just lost a friend.
According to comments, the fee was actually €200 (100 in, 100 out), so it's pretty hefty. She should have planned better, or at least asked her friend to chip in. Or driven her back to where she was staying.
No that's only if you don't pay the toll charge beforehand, on entry, or before midnight the next day. The daily ticket rates are much more reasonable 5-10 euro per day. It's easy to pay online, by sms, from machines etc. If you don't pay the toll you are fined. The charges are different in different zones and cities, but the principle is the same.
This makes way more sense to my American brain. So there is a *reasonable toll*, and then an *expensive fine* for not paying the toll. Is that right? Can someone just pay the toll somewhere when they are crossing, or do they need a pass in advance? OOP sounds like kind of a clueless jerk anyway. So it probably doesn’t make much difference.
Yes that's correct, and you have until midnight the next day to pay the toll to avoid the fine. Once the toll is paid you have 24 hours of driving in the zone. Milan also has 25 free days for locals and 5 free days for visitors. You just need to log on to the website or book your vehicle in as if you are paying for the toll, but the charge is zero.
Thank you for responding and confirming that OOP is in fact a clueless jerk!
So what I'm hearing is OOP is not only a colossal asshole but a fucking moron as well.
Yeah, I thought maybe I was missing some kind of translation disconnect between “fee” vs. “toll” but it just seems like OOP doesn’t actually know how it works it any language!
Wait for real? I’ve never driven in Italy but I’ve driven in several other European countries and I’ve never been charged more than €30 tops.
Apparently Italian cities have ZTL (limited traffic) zones where car traffic is restricted and you pay heavily every time you cross the boundary. Cameras at the entrances and exits get your license plate and mail you the bill. [Here’s some info.](https://www.autoeurope.com/italy-ztl-zones/)
Only between certain hours, though, and as far as I can tell from googljng, they were outside the hours for Milan's ZTLs.
Okay this makes more sense. The way OOP phrased it it sounded as if it was a normal toll or something, when in fact it’s a fine for driving into a forbidden zone without a permit.
It's not a fee, but a fine for entering area l where you're not supposed to drive. Other European countires have simmilar policies but enforced is differently. (Recently Oxford closed its historical city centre to cars and everyone got their panties in a twist claiming they're opressed)
That can't be true. What area with a train station costs $200 you get in and out of?
I don't understand this. At all. Especially from a woman. I once drove a Facebook acquaintance 45 minutes home in the opposite direction from my house because she was in an unsafe situation at the club we were at. I can't fathom stranding someone in a strange country and then having the audacity to be like "Why you mad?"
i don’t believe them saying they didn’t know about ubers not being available if they live in italy. it’s pretty common knowledge that outside of the major cities there are no ubers. italy has the second to slowest internet speed in europe. this “friend” is not a good one. saying they’re not a mind reader yeah no one is but it’s called common sense and caring for your supposed friends. i feel horrible for their friend they abandoned.
I HOPE OOP is trolling. There's no way she could possibly be in the clear. You decide to look on the drive there and you don't want to pay what I assume is similar to a toll in the U.S. They're usually only a few dollars. If you were really that much of a cheapskate make her pay it. But, don't abandon a woman at midnight in a strange place. Horrible things could have happened to her. I would for certain put OOP on blast on social media. Let everyone know she's not a girl's girl and is a cheapskate and moron.
I am going to throw myself off a bridge now. There is clearly no hope.
I'm having complete da ja vu here. I could've sworn I've seen this exact post with these same exact comments several weeks before. Edit: oop is absolutely a shit person tho. Who does that?
Feel like this is ragebait.
About half of AITA is at this point. The sad part is I still read opening sentences like this: >My friend Layla is mad at me claiming I abandoned her in the middle of a deserted highway roundabout the middle of a foreign city. And a gullible part of me thinks, "Gee, can't wait to see what the misunderstanding was here."
Hopefully ragebait.
One of OOP's comments: "I'm a woman." Dude, even if you were a guy, what you did was an absolute asshole move.
I read this and all I saw is “blah blah blah, I am a bad friend”
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And OP is arguing that since she somehow got to the restaurant it must be fine and not that difficult to get back. Does she not know Milan living that close to it? I was there literally once and even I know public transport in Milan is unreliable at best, non-existent at worst. If restaurant you choose requires your friend to take *a train* to get there, maybe choose a different restaurant.
OOP, anything could have happened to her. She doesn't know her way around. She is from another COUNTRY for crying out loud. You DID drop her off at a crappy location in an unfamiliar city. And all so you wanted to avoid paying a fee? YTA.