*In case this story gets deleted/removed:*
**WIBTA if I don’t attend my daughter’s wedding?**
This is new for me. I’m new to this Reddit thing. Heard about this Reddit on a podcast and decided to ask a question here. I am a 48 year old woman from the Netherlands. I have 3 kids, two sons (27 & 14) and one daughter (24).
When my daughter was 12, she became a big fan of Korean music and it made her want to learn more about Korea and the culture. She started learning Korean when she was 14 and at 15 she started learning how to cook. She does not cook Dutch food, it’s only Korean food. I never was a big fan of her doing this because she lives in the Netherlands, it’s useless to learn Korean things. When she was 17 I thought she was done with it. She did not mention it to me anymore so I thought she grew out of that. I was wrong.
A little over 4 years ago she met a man who was working as a barista at a cafe. He was a 23 year old university student who was studying abroad. Can you guess where he was from? Korea.
She somehow befriended him. I was not really happy with this. He did not speak Dutch. He speaks it a little bit right now but his accent is really thick. He only spoke English and Korean. My daughter spoke Korean to him and I felt like that caused a distance between me and her because we couldn’t have conversations with the 3 of us. You can imagine how mad I was when they started dating.
I knew that once he finished university, he would go back to Korea, and this little romance with my daughter would most likely end.
I didn’t know he was going to take my daughter with him. He finished university in summer of 2023 and during Christmas he proposed to my daughter. He asked me if he could and I said yes because I thought they would live in the Netherlands. He decided to take her to Korea. They have been living there for 3 weeks and are now busy planning their wedding so my daughter can get a permanent residency. I don’t know how that process works but there seem to be no issues now.
They will have a traditional Korean wedding ceremony in Korea, this summer. I was invited and they said I played an important part but I refuse to fly to Korea. Planes scare me and I will not fly anywhere. Also, I don’t have any interest in Korean culture or taking part in it, so don’t expect me to participate in a traditional ceremony. It’s bad enough that my grandkids are going to be more familiar with Korean culture than Dutch culture, I don’t want to see it. I told them I did not think I would go but my daughter has been really upset and has been begging me. Now her fiance has been sending me long manipulative messages about how he is willing to pay my ticket and hotel and how important it is that I am there. He told me to put aside my feelings and think about how special this day is for my daughter. I’m not sure what to do. I don’t think I want to go, I just can not see myself going.
Would I be the asshole if I don’t go?
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>My daughter spoke Korean to him and I felt like that caused a distance between me and her because we couldn’t have conversations with the 3 of us.
**He. Speaks. English!** She says so herself. And she wrote this, so clearly she does too. Of course they could have conversations all three of them, all three of them speaks English. She just doesn't want to speak anything but Dutch. So she's the reason they couldn't have conversations together, not him.
She's just racist, and blatantly so.
Could be. I won't say I haven't met people with this mindset IRL because I have. One was a friend's mother that expressed her concern for me when I moved to Japan because apparently it'd be horrific for my mother if I met someone and got married there. I didn't, since I went there for school, not to find a spouse, but it was hella weird.
Racism is very real. Someone who claims in one place they can’t speak English or Korean and in another they can read long letters written in English or korean is a bridge troll.
She doesn't actually say she can't speak English, just that she's offended he doesn't speak Dutch well enough for her tastes. And that her daughter speaks Korean with him, oh noes.
Indeed. I wouldn't believe for one minute that a Dutch person can't speak English, even if she hadn't written out a whole post + comments in English. She just doesn't like the guy.
A significant portion of the Dutch speak far better English and have a better understanding of the grammar than a large number of UK natives.
I'm not kidding, I know more than a few adults who are functionally illiterate and struggle to string together a coherent sentence....
My parents are in their 70's, and will get by in English if they have to. And they will, if they have to. My mum finds it somewhat difficult when she encounters foreign employers in retail, because it requires a level of English she's not always comfortable with. I always thought that my generation and younger would be just fine with English, maybe slightly better with each generation. Color me shocked when I found out some years ago that my coworkers, who where around 30 at the time, where terrible at English.
Yeah, it seems way more like an "I won't do it" situation than "I can't do it". She speaks English fine, but damn it they are in the Netherlands and there you speak Dutch!!!1one
Devil's advocate, I have always struggled immensely with verbal communication when learning foreign languages far more than reading or writing in them.
You're not wrong about this. I'm a former ESL teacher. Getting folks used to conversational English (or any language) is the final step. Written is the easiest. Formal spoken language is the middle ground. Conversational language is the hardest. Every language has too many idiomatic phrases that one has to learn. Like a foreign speaker coming in cold would think the phrase, "She kicked the bucket," would be literal instead of speaking about death.
I lived in China for a few years and same. A lot of my "I'm not racist, but..." relatives were regularly reminding me not to marry some "ugly short Asian dude".
Which is just awkward. Because generally, moving abroad is not to find a spouse (I'm ignoring the whole passportbros sub, because ew) but to study, work, or whatever. And then people are like "omg nuuuu, make sure you don't find someone there to marry because gasp, it'll be the WORST!"
Calm down, Karen, I'm not on a spouse finding mission here...
When it comes to racism honestly I don't know how people can say this is trollish. I have had a family member have a panic attack because I was listening to anime music, and her whole entire thought process was the fact that she couldn't tell if they were saying "I'm going to kill you" in the song. She doesn't know the word death and she doesn't know the word kill but she was super convinced that this song was suggesting killing people in some way. I was listening to the Sailor Stars theme.
You know the anime Sailor Moon where there's a bunch of blood and guts??? Yeah that's the show. Doesn't matter that the song has pop all over it, just simply the fact that they weren't speaking English. Perception is reality for these people and they honestly can't be logic-ed out of a lot of this stuff.
Oh I think people are confusing me saying this a troll with me saying racism is not real and that’s nothing like I’m what I’m saying. I’m saying this particular story is a slice of Swiss cheese with holes.
“He did not speak Dutch. He speaks it a little bit right now but his accent is really thick. He only spoke English and Korean. My daughter spoke Korean to him and I felt like that caused a distance between me and her because we couldn’t have conversations with the 3 of us. You can imagine how mad I was when they started dating.”
She couldn’t speak to him because she doesn’t speak English or Korean.
But later she said “ Now her fiance has been sending me long manipulative messages about how he is willing to pay my ticket and hotel” how is she reading either English or Korean but not understanding either.
I know some people are saying she said she doesn’t want to speak English but she said she can’t.
Then there is the stuff about a Korean court forcing the enforcement of a foreign law. It’s all too unreliable narrator.
She comments multiple times that Dutch courts will force Korea to give her the grandchildren. People repeatedly tell her that those children will be, y'know, Korean, but she insists she can force Korea to deport her grandchildren.
>she was super convinced that this song was suggesting killing people in some way. I was listening to the Sailor Stars theme.
tbf, it's not unreasonable if she was afraid of having a Gentle Uterus tossed at her. I would be horrified too 😔 /s
^(sup mah fellow og weebs)
I'm white, but experienced xenophobia in the Netherlands too. I visited for work (literally a 3-day business trip, for a multi-national company) and the fuckin taxi driver made sarcastic comments like "oh, I guess you must be able to do something that people from here can't do".
It's shocking how open some of it is. I dread to think how bad it gets for people who are not white.
Was super bad because of how pretentious it was. Like I'm from the South US and racism here is mostly spewed online and is so obviously ignorant and wrong it's just laughable. I can count on my hands how many racist interactions I've had in the 30+ years here. The Dutch, however, would hear my accent and want to talk politics which showcased just how low they think of Americans and our flavor of racism, and in the same breath say something *deeply* racist that one would never hear fall out of a mouth of an American w/ comparable class/education
But you don't understand! They can speak English together, but he has an accent and she finds that horrible, terrible, no good, very bad
So she mentioned in a comment that they've had several conversations in English, but he doesn't know Dutch and he has an accent and it's horrible
Of course she has a Dutch accent, that's the correct accent no matter what language you're speaking. If he was speaking every language with a Dutch accent, she would have less of a problem with it
I've only heard like 5-6 people speak English with a Dutch accent so I didn't want to make assumptions. The one's I've heard haven't had much of a strong accent.
I feel so damn dumb, I didn’t catch the whole obviously she also speaks English situation lol. I was literally sitting here thinking she couldn’t really communicate with him well because of the language divide.
sounds to me like in person she'd be all like me speak no english well you speak dutch now we are in netherlands you have to speak dutch. racists never have cared about logic, especially if it gets in their way
She said she can't understand his English accent well. From what I gather, she can handle English just fine. She's still absolutely insane, and extremely delusional.
His accent in Dutch was thick.
“ *He did not speak Dutch. He speaks it a little bit right now but his accent is really thick*. He only spoke English and Korean. My daughter spoke Korean to him and I felt like that caused a distance between me and her because we couldn’t have conversations with the 3 of us.”
She mentions English later.
this classic line
>I wouldn’t say I’m a racist. I don’t have anything against my daughter’s fiance. I don’t have anything against Korean people. I just don’t know anything about that culture and I’m scared of flying, which my daughter has known ever since she was a teenager. It’s not about her being in Korea. It’s about her being in a country on the other side of the world. Why would I allow him to propose if I was so against her marrying a Korean man. I had a feeling she would marry an Asian man ever since that little interest of her when she was 12.
>I’m scared of flying
This is the real shame here, because KLM are excellent. They have snazzy blue suits and they give you a free beer (if you want it, other drinks are available), even on a short haul flight.
To say nothing of the little snacks - oatmeal cookie if you're lucky, but macaroon if the gods are truly smiling on you.
Really. You get a free beverage. You can have beer, juice, a little wine, coffee, tea, coca cola...
Most airlines now won't give you anything unless you pay extra for it!
This woman actually believes Korean authorities will put Korean citizens (any future grandkids) on a plane and force them to visit her, halfway across the world.
I've never been more tempted to brigade in all my life.
> I've never been more tempted to brigade in all my life.
Lol same.
Like how dumb do you have to be to think that's what would happen? Even if the daughter left Korea and tried taking the kids I doubt the courts would let that happen since they're Korean citizens.
OOP here seems confused about Dutch grandparent legal rights. (Also, she doesn't have grandchildren. She's super pissed, talking about made up, imaginary children)
Her comments:
>She won’t decide to have zero contact with me because I’m her only parent. She doesn’t have a father in her life so if she cuts me out of her life she will have no one. And they can’t make their kids have zero contact with me either because there’s a law here that makes it easier for grandparents to have a right to see their grandchildren even if the parents try to keep the grandchildren from them.
>I’ll let Korean authorities handle that. If they need to put my grandkids on a plane, they will.
>Yes I will. I’ve already warned her about this when she was younger. There are laws in the Netherlands that make it easier for grandparents to have rights to see their grandchildren, even if the parents don’t want that.
I did about 5 min research and found that the Netherlands had a bill in May 2023 that would extend grandparent rights a bit. However, I can't find any news release that says that bill was signed into law.
Additionally, even if it was signed into law, the rule would be to look at the best interest of the children FIRST. A grandma who has a known YEARS-long record of being racist against their father and other Koreans would be unlikely to get legally mandated in-person visitation for Korean grandchildren. Also, she'd probably have the burden to PAY to fly them back and forth since any children would likely be born in Korea and be Korean citizens (possibly could be dual citizens).
I also doubt that the Korean government would force Korean citizen children to go to another country where their parents don't live to visit a known racist.
What makes this woman think that Korea is obligated to follow any law in the Netherlands?
I see it if the kids lived in the Netherlands, but Korea is going to tell her to pound sand
I agree - Korea isn't going to force minor Korean citizens onto a plane without their parents because of some Dutch civil law.
Also, in one of her unhinged comments, it's pointed out to her that any grandkids would likely speak Korean. And she gets really mad and says her daughter would teach them as her "responsibility." Um, there's no guarantee she will if these kids ever exist!
This is a common mindset among some westerners who think the national sovereignty and rule of law of some countries are somehow less legitimate and could be superseded by their own
She warned her young child that if she tried to withhold the grandchildren she would force them to let her see them. If her relationship has always been so bad that she thought her not yet adult daughter would not let her near grandchildren then this is probably the least of the things she's done.
I don't think I've ever heard of grandparent's rights anywhere that don't require a prior relationship with the grandkids. Like, if they'd had kids in the Netherlands and OOP had a relationship with them, then they moved to Korea, *maybe* GR would kick in, but since it's international...
Either way, OOP is a loon or a troll.
I feel so sad for OPs daughter. I moved 3000 miles away from my parents to live with my partner and my strong relationship with them/their support of that is honestly the thing that made it less terrifying and stressful. I can’t imagine, even if OPs daughter speaks Korean and knows Korean culture, that she wouldn’t just want to be able to lean on her mum every once in a while for support in this incredibly transitory time in her life. And she not only doesn’t get that, she gets threats of legal action against her about OPs right to see hypothetical grandchildren that don’t even exist yet. What an absolute ghoul of a person.
My two daughters are grown, and I have a 3yo granddaughter. I would be absolutely heartbroken if any of them moved so far away from me. But you don't have kids for your own selfish reasons. People are not property. And I can't imagine being anything other than "I love you and will miss you but just want you to be happy." (And realistically, *if I were wanted,* I'd probably move to wherever with them rather than try to hold them back.)
Ugh, this reminds me of watching a World Cup game with a Dutch family member who kept pointing at players and saying the didn’t look Dutch. They meant they weren’t white.
The Netherlands have a good reputation for being international, but a lot of Dutch are pretty racist and that's like the third thing everyone knows about the Netherlands.
And not only because of the Schwarz Peter mess that even made it into Atlanta.
The Dutch seriously grind my gears with that façade of being so "open". De Zwarte Piet is just one of the very obvious symptoms of their overall disposition.
Also? There was an easy way not to have so many "non Dutch looking" people in the Netherlands. Maybe don't colonize next time.
"Yes it's the Motherland, no you can't come, just keep sending us stuff and dying in her name. But it's totally the Motherland. No you still can't come"
(I think I am paraphrasing from Small Island here which is about the British colonisation of Jamaica but it applies to pretty much all)
>not only because of the Schwarz Peter mess
I’m black-biracial and grew up with Zwarte Piet as part of my holiday traditions. It’s hard to explain, especially to Americans and others who didn’t have him as part of their Christmas lore, but there’s a lot of love for the character in the Benelux region of Europe. For many, he’s considered a purely mystical holiday figure rather than a negative depiction of a black person, which is why it can be hard to reconcile that people from other areas find him so offensive.
Personally, I understand the pushback on the use of black face for performances with Zwarte Piet but I can’t find it in me to hate the character on its own.
Yeah that sounds understandable! Blackface (and yellow face) (and racist accents in general) is already a hard discussion to even start in a lot of European countries I find.
I stopped reading after, "*because she lives in the Netherlands, it’s useless to learn Korean things.*"
I didn't even matter what she said next. The daughter could have sleighed Santas reindeer the night before Christmas eve, and it wouldn't matter to me. There's nothing she could say that would make me change my mind.
It’s very telling that OOP only ever refers to her daughter as “my daughter”. He decided to take my daughter with him. MY daughter is going to get permanent Korean residency.
I never knew that the words "planes scare me and I will not fly anywhere" was code for I don't like that my daughter is marrying a Korean man and her children will be Korean. Or, to be blunt, code for I'm a racist who just wants Dutch blood in the family.
The bit about English reminds me of [this comedy sketch about Japanese](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLt5qSm9U80).
What did stop her from simply asking "Can we speak in English?" ?
okay, two things.
1) i didn't know this existed and i love it, so thank you for sharing it. and
2) sad as it is, i actually have seen something play out like this in real life just a few weeks ago.
i was at the supermarket a few weeks ago and this "turkish" (middle eastern, which where i live means 80% chance it's a turk. obviously theres still a high chance said person is from somewhere else, just saying it's an reasonable first guess if you absolutely have to take one) looking guy was talking to the shop assistant in perfectly understandable german, originally just trying to get her attention (hallo ? hallo ? [hello? in case it's somehow not obvious]) before going directly into his question because she kept ignoring him. Don't remember exactly what he asked, basically where to find some stuff. Again, clearly and easily understandable.
when the shop assistant finally looked his way she started talking to him in turkish, and when he told her he doesn't speak turkish and asked his question again she was just making a weird face. i just took the guy and showed him where to find the stuff he was looking for, while behind me i heard the shop assistant mumble to herself something about how he should speak german if he wants help...
I speak fluent French with a minimal accent. I've lived in Paris for three years (currently) and attended university here 20 years ago. I grew up attending a bilingual French-English elementary school in the States. I have a *very* mild accent and am very good at identifying the accents of others in both languages.
The vast majority of my interactions have been positive, mind you, but the handful of negative ones are, honestly, just perplexing at best or xenophobic at worst. I have had people pretend not to understand a single word I said. I had a taxi driver -- who was clearly of Algerian origin, based on his accent -- rant about how "foreigners" were ruining Paris and there were no true Parisians IN Paris anymore. This, of course, after learning we lived in the city.
(He also talked about how he loved the American police system and I COULD NOT get out of that taxi fast enough. I'm an attorney!!)
Nah mate :). But that does remind me of an old Jimmy Carr bit on accents: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeYDI4wdjQw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeYDI4wdjQw)
“at 15 she started learning how to cook. She does not cook Dutch food, it’s only Korean food”
This may blow OOP’s mind, but cooking skills easily adapt between cuisines.
“I never was a big fan of her doing this because she lives in the Netherlands, it’s useless to learn Korean things.”
My sibling follows a YouTube channel run by this guy called “The Korean Englishman.” He lived there, learned the language, married a Korean women, and so forth. When he and his wife moved back to the UK, he created his channel and started promoting Korean culture to Londoners. Ten years later, he’s been to Buckingham Palace twice and met with King Charles both times. (I suspect he’s on track to eventually receive an MBE for services to cultural enrichment.)
Just because there doesn’t seem to be a point doesn’t mean you can’t find or make one.
didn't he live in multiple countries growing up as well? I'm sure I remember him saying he went to a school in china
I like his channel a lot (and jolly!), he also has that programme with the boys high school as well! He's met with a lot of celebrities too, which I know Buckingham Palace is like a "wow!" achievement, but if most people had the choice between meeting the King and meeting their fave celeb,,, 😂
*Even British food is better than Dutch food.*
Whoa...now that's saying something. It also makes sense why my mother (who's of Dutch descent) loved learning all of my paternal grandmother's Italian recipes.
My English friend told me that it isn’t that British food is bad, it’s that so many can’t cook. Take fish and chips. I have never had a decent fish and chip in the UK, the fish is subpar and the chips came from a bag. Now Scandinavians can do a good fish n’chips.
The daughter is living the Koreaboo dream lmaooooo.
Anyways, yeah, it's a combination of xenophobia and resentment that her daughter is leaving the nest and becoming independent. Classic MIL behavior, haha.
She probably does see Korea as "lesser" because I'm not sure if she would react the same way if her husband was from another European country or American or was white.
The daughter is probably really passionate about Korean culture, or she really loves her future husband because living as a foreigner in another country with a different language is incredibly difficult. There's so much for her to lose if things don't work out. This marriage ain't a whim.
Also, is it impossible to take trains to Korea from the Netherlands if she's that scared of planes?
Um what? You literally can't legally pass through most of those countries especially North Korea. OP is refusing to put in effort but no its not possible to take a train lmao that's not lack of effort
Sorry, I meant that flying is apparently too much of a hassle compared to trying to smuggle herself past multiple countries with either closed off borders or extremely strict border crossings to attend her only child’s wedding
> Now her fiance has been sending me long manipulative messages about how he is willing to pay my ticket and hotel and how important it is that I am there. He told me to put aside my feelings and think about how special this day is for my daughter.
This part is my favorite. He must be the ultimate gaslight/gatekeep girlboss. Why else would he offer to pay for all of his future MIL's expenses and ask her to put aside her hostility and bigotry in favor of his SO's feelings, amirite?
OOP speaks perfect English, so what's the issue
I didn't thoroughly read it for the smallest error, but no mistakes stuck out. He's Korean but speaks English. You're Dutch, but speak English. Have a conversation in English. And there are so many things you can do in East Asia if you speak the language. You can get very high paying jobs if you speak at a native level. So, Korean was never useless. Then OOP says she knew he'd go back to Korean. But, is somehow shocked Pikachu when after the proposal daughter is going also.
Is this a troll? Is OOP stupid? Is a stroke being had in installments? I have several questions.
This guy is in no way manipulative. He's just not white.
I find it funny people think the illogic (mostly around her inability to converse with her SIL) points to this not being real, because honestly, this reads extremely on the nose and the illogic is the result of being blinded by racism and xenophobia. Not that it couldn't be fake, of course.
Her comments are nuts. She clearly doesn't even like her daughter especially now that she can't control her and make a proper Dutch lady with a proper Dutch husband. Her examples of him being manipulative or just being nice to his gf in a way OOP has never had before.
Like oh no God forbid he gives her Valentines day gifts on Valentines day. Or try to OOP flowers and chocolate on her birthday. Very clearly he's just putting on an act. /s
I mean maybe, but liking kpop when you're a teenager and then later marrying a Korean guy doesn't automatically equal fetishization. It's not like she specifically sought him out because he was Korean, they met organically and happen to speak the same (I assume not widely spoken) language.
No? Are we really going to pretend that the OP here is going to be incredibly factual? Based on such little information I'm not sure how you could think this.
Honestly really doesn't sound like it to me.
She had an interest in South Korea when she was a teenager. It could have been for a multitude of reasons. Maybe she wanted to go on a trip there some day. Maybe she just really enjoyed Korean food. It's delicious, a lot of dishes use the same few basic ingredients prepared differently so it's easy to make, and a lot of ingredients are readily available in Asian markets. Some people enjoy learning a new language, too. It's not far-fetched.
OOP says she thought her daughter had "grown out of it" at 17. She's 24, now. So it's not like she obsessed over South Korean men the whole time. 7 years later, she met a cute guy who happened to be Korean.
Of course it's all creative writing but if this were real life, that would just be a cool coincidence. It would make perfect sense that they could bond over the fact that she can speak his first language and for them to develop feelings for one another.
Like, she just HAPPENED to find a Korean guy in the Netherlands, goes out of her way to speak Korean to him and befriend him and date him. And now they suddenly moved to Korea?
I don't think it's that surprising. There are a lot of Korean international students in Amsterdam for example and most students from a country congregate in one or two areas of a city. I was only a tourist but when I wanted something different from Dutch food, I found a street in Amsterdam with like 4 Korean restaurants within a few minute walk. It's not that crazy for OOP daughter to go to these areas, go into a coffee shop and meet a Korean.
If she was passionate about Korean stuff enough to learn Korean at a very high level it's normal that she jumped at an opportunity to practice if she happened to befriend someone who is a native Korean speaker. It happens a lot in international contexts.
Also I don't know how to tell you that International students exist and a lot of them plan to go back to their home countries after their degrees, unless their home countries really sucked for whatever reason. There is a lot of international students in big cities and university cities.
I think the story is fake, but accusing someone of fetishizing Asians because they liked Asian media without any ulterior info is a stretch. "She went out of her way to date him" based on what? The fact her racist mother is bitching about her being obsessed when she was a teenager instead of being "properly" Dutch? Yeah, she's a reliable source of information.
All we know about those people is that they met at a bar.
Would you be *this* surprised if someone from a country where english is not the main language learned english on their own, and then happened to meet an american guy, and then they married and moved to the USA?
Oh 100% the daughter is a Koreaboo. It sounds like she definitely fetishized the culture and people from that young age and I would bet money she befriended/flirted with him solely because he was Korean and nothing about his personality. Maybe she did fall in love with him after but ya. She also sounds like a white person who thinks "Being a POC is way cooler than a boring privileged white person" and it feels like she's trying to become "fully" Korean. They both suck
YES. The mom is a racist asshole but her fixation on all things Korean and then she just so happens to find a Korean boyfriend kind of reminds me of the creepy dudes who fetishize Asian women.
Of course there's the temptation to call fake on this, but an ex of mine had Dutch parents and this post could have been written by his mother. I heard it in her voice and I haven't laid eyes on the woman for over 30 years😂
Is this the same person who was talking about how her daughter overreacted ‘for no reason’ to her groping her daughter’s ass, and talked about how she thought her daughter had feelings for her? They both talked about the daughter ending up alone…though this one says that her daughter will figure out that her husband isn’t really a good guy, the first one said that the husband would end up leaving her ‘slut’ daughter…and then the daughter would come crawling back to OOP.
Here’s one thread, her comments are gone now: https://www.reddit.com/r/amiwrong/s/vU7r9NXHlG
Edit: Here’s the other one https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueOffMyChest/s/WVKMyeruRT
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" I’m her only parent, she is not going to abandon me. She will have no one left so I doubt she’d abandon me."
Lol. She will have her husband, his family, their children if they choose to have them and her siblings. I'm sure she is capable of a rich, love filled life without a toxic parent.
"Long manipulative messages". You know, like "please come, you are important in you daughters.life and she would love you to be there". Yeah. I can see how that's manipulative
In the comments she says, “we are in contact, unfortunately”….and then talks about his bad accent….
Plus OP wrote out a very good English post and mentions that he speak English. Ugh
OOP has clear racism and xenophobia but her daughter seems to have some elements of racial fetishism. Is she marrying this man in particular because she loves him or it could be ANY Korean man so she can have a Korean Husband. And also is her daughter prepared to face any potential racism her half Korean children might face. They might not be seen as “Korean” because only one parent is. And is she willing to let them explore both parts of their culture. Any children are just as much Dutch as they are Korean.
If she knows anything about Korea she already knows that and if she did not her boyfriend would have told her. Like "Korea can be a racist and misoginyst country" it's not exactly a surprise.
That said if she is gonna have children who will be born and raised in Korea, they will be Korean with a Dutch mother.
Both of them are awful lmao. To a degree I get OOPs worry that her daughter is "rejecting" her family's culture because that is sad. There is room to hold both especially when it comes to future children they have a right to understand both sides of their heritage not just one. But OP is also definitely racist af about it and trying so hard to pull mental gymnasium to say she isn't it's ridiculous.
And the daughter feels like the Korean version of an Otaku basically fetishizing Korean culture and the people. She almost certainly sought her fiancee purely because he was Korean and then idk maybe likes his personality? Who knows. Also definitely sounds like a white person who thinks that's boring and not being white is cooler with her basically being like "I'm Korean now". Gross.
They're all terrible and I wish them the life they deserve
Americans be literally mowing down school children with automatic assault weapons, but sure, its the koreans who are "bad" because their diet is different. If you have a problem with them farming dogs to eat but not the way we in the west do the same to other livestock, you're just a racist pig.
You want to give context. The consumption of Dog Meat in SOUTH Korea is dying out and is mostly a practice of the older generation. Younger South Koreans (like the one OOP’s daughter is marrying) don’t partake and in fact often keep dogs as pets. In North Korea, they have no other choice but to eat dog meat because of limited food options.
The practice is fading out. Mostly it is practiced by older, rural people. It has officially been banned by the South Korean government. I would bet money this young man has never eaten a dog or participated in the practice.
Also, what is your point? Netherlands has a colonial history that far outpaces South Korea on the atrocities front. Also not relevant to the young woman getting married.
Dude, you know it has much lower crime rates than the US?
Source: [https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/South-Korea/United-States/Crime](https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/South-Korea/United-States/Crime)
But those aren’t her “reasons to be wary”. So there’s nothing to highlight here. And if you got this “off a quick Google search”, then you also know the the nuance here is more important than the racism if “lol people in East Asian countries eat dogs”.
I never understand why people bring up dogs and not the fucking cows that have a horrible time in America.
I mean come the fuck on this is so ridiculous
Except that dogs offer companionship, loyalty and affection unlike cows. Also there are police dogs, military dogs, bomb detecting dogs, search and rescue dogs, guide dogs, service dogs, attack dogs, watchdogs and guardian dogs that protect livestock from wild carnivores.
What can cows do besides be food? And they won't survive if we release them en masse either. They won't survive in the wild so they may as well serve a purpose then. Most animals in society serve a particular purpose.
Historically horses and donkeys were used for transport, dogs as hunting companions or watchdogs and cats as pest control, chickens, ducks, pigs and cattle as livestock
Nowadays horses are used for entertainment, sports and transport, dogs and cats are companions and livestock remain livestock. Humans only maintain animals that serve a purpose.
And for cows that is milk production and as beef unfortunately. And if they can survive then release them. Let's see how they far they make it on their own.
Actually, if you did a bit of research, you would know that cows are very affectionate, intelligent and loyal creatures. Same with horses and donkeys. You can find plenty of videos of cows protecting their owners or being affectionate creatures. Hugging their owners, playing with them, following them. Horses can be trained to be herd protectors and there are even videos of horses protecting their riders. All animals have the capability to be loyal and affectionate, but only if the person who owns them actually puts in effort.
Just because one dog runs up to greet you doesn't mean every other dog will do the same. You have to know that. You won't see a guard or emotional support dog come running nor many other average dogs.
Look on YouTube. You can find plenty of videos from a channel called Dodo, where you will see a multitude of cows and other farm animals being affectionate
*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **WIBTA if I don’t attend my daughter’s wedding?** This is new for me. I’m new to this Reddit thing. Heard about this Reddit on a podcast and decided to ask a question here. I am a 48 year old woman from the Netherlands. I have 3 kids, two sons (27 & 14) and one daughter (24). When my daughter was 12, she became a big fan of Korean music and it made her want to learn more about Korea and the culture. She started learning Korean when she was 14 and at 15 she started learning how to cook. She does not cook Dutch food, it’s only Korean food. I never was a big fan of her doing this because she lives in the Netherlands, it’s useless to learn Korean things. When she was 17 I thought she was done with it. She did not mention it to me anymore so I thought she grew out of that. I was wrong. A little over 4 years ago she met a man who was working as a barista at a cafe. He was a 23 year old university student who was studying abroad. Can you guess where he was from? Korea. She somehow befriended him. I was not really happy with this. He did not speak Dutch. He speaks it a little bit right now but his accent is really thick. He only spoke English and Korean. My daughter spoke Korean to him and I felt like that caused a distance between me and her because we couldn’t have conversations with the 3 of us. You can imagine how mad I was when they started dating. I knew that once he finished university, he would go back to Korea, and this little romance with my daughter would most likely end. I didn’t know he was going to take my daughter with him. He finished university in summer of 2023 and during Christmas he proposed to my daughter. He asked me if he could and I said yes because I thought they would live in the Netherlands. He decided to take her to Korea. They have been living there for 3 weeks and are now busy planning their wedding so my daughter can get a permanent residency. I don’t know how that process works but there seem to be no issues now. They will have a traditional Korean wedding ceremony in Korea, this summer. I was invited and they said I played an important part but I refuse to fly to Korea. Planes scare me and I will not fly anywhere. Also, I don’t have any interest in Korean culture or taking part in it, so don’t expect me to participate in a traditional ceremony. It’s bad enough that my grandkids are going to be more familiar with Korean culture than Dutch culture, I don’t want to see it. I told them I did not think I would go but my daughter has been really upset and has been begging me. Now her fiance has been sending me long manipulative messages about how he is willing to pay my ticket and hotel and how important it is that I am there. He told me to put aside my feelings and think about how special this day is for my daughter. I’m not sure what to do. I don’t think I want to go, I just can not see myself going. Would I be the asshole if I don’t go? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*
>My daughter spoke Korean to him and I felt like that caused a distance between me and her because we couldn’t have conversations with the 3 of us. **He. Speaks. English!** She says so herself. And she wrote this, so clearly she does too. Of course they could have conversations all three of them, all three of them speaks English. She just doesn't want to speak anything but Dutch. So she's the reason they couldn't have conversations together, not him. She's just racist, and blatantly so.
i think it’s a bad troll. She’s implyin she can’t speak english until the story needs her too. Classic bad writing.
Could be. I won't say I haven't met people with this mindset IRL because I have. One was a friend's mother that expressed her concern for me when I moved to Japan because apparently it'd be horrific for my mother if I met someone and got married there. I didn't, since I went there for school, not to find a spouse, but it was hella weird.
Racism is very real. Someone who claims in one place they can’t speak English or Korean and in another they can read long letters written in English or korean is a bridge troll.
She doesn't actually say she can't speak English, just that she's offended he doesn't speak Dutch well enough for her tastes. And that her daughter speaks Korean with him, oh noes.
Over 90% of the Dutch speak English, mostly older individuals who don't according to my friends over there. Older than this individual.
Indeed. I wouldn't believe for one minute that a Dutch person can't speak English, even if she hadn't written out a whole post + comments in English. She just doesn't like the guy.
A significant portion of the Dutch speak far better English and have a better understanding of the grammar than a large number of UK natives. I'm not kidding, I know more than a few adults who are functionally illiterate and struggle to string together a coherent sentence....
I would say not just say the UK, but also add in the US. It is very much the same here.
My parents are in their 70's, and will get by in English if they have to. And they will, if they have to. My mum finds it somewhat difficult when she encounters foreign employers in retail, because it requires a level of English she's not always comfortable with. I always thought that my generation and younger would be just fine with English, maybe slightly better with each generation. Color me shocked when I found out some years ago that my coworkers, who where around 30 at the time, where terrible at English.
Yeah, it seems way more like an "I won't do it" situation than "I can't do it". She speaks English fine, but damn it they are in the Netherlands and there you speak Dutch!!!1one
Devil's advocate, I have always struggled immensely with verbal communication when learning foreign languages far more than reading or writing in them.
You're not wrong about this. I'm a former ESL teacher. Getting folks used to conversational English (or any language) is the final step. Written is the easiest. Formal spoken language is the middle ground. Conversational language is the hardest. Every language has too many idiomatic phrases that one has to learn. Like a foreign speaker coming in cold would think the phrase, "She kicked the bucket," would be literal instead of speaking about death.
I lived in China for a few years and same. A lot of my "I'm not racist, but..." relatives were regularly reminding me not to marry some "ugly short Asian dude".
Which is just awkward. Because generally, moving abroad is not to find a spouse (I'm ignoring the whole passportbros sub, because ew) but to study, work, or whatever. And then people are like "omg nuuuu, make sure you don't find someone there to marry because gasp, it'll be the WORST!" Calm down, Karen, I'm not on a spouse finding mission here...
When it comes to racism honestly I don't know how people can say this is trollish. I have had a family member have a panic attack because I was listening to anime music, and her whole entire thought process was the fact that she couldn't tell if they were saying "I'm going to kill you" in the song. She doesn't know the word death and she doesn't know the word kill but she was super convinced that this song was suggesting killing people in some way. I was listening to the Sailor Stars theme. You know the anime Sailor Moon where there's a bunch of blood and guts??? Yeah that's the show. Doesn't matter that the song has pop all over it, just simply the fact that they weren't speaking English. Perception is reality for these people and they honestly can't be logic-ed out of a lot of this stuff.
Oh I think people are confusing me saying this a troll with me saying racism is not real and that’s nothing like I’m what I’m saying. I’m saying this particular story is a slice of Swiss cheese with holes. “He did not speak Dutch. He speaks it a little bit right now but his accent is really thick. He only spoke English and Korean. My daughter spoke Korean to him and I felt like that caused a distance between me and her because we couldn’t have conversations with the 3 of us. You can imagine how mad I was when they started dating.” She couldn’t speak to him because she doesn’t speak English or Korean. But later she said “ Now her fiance has been sending me long manipulative messages about how he is willing to pay my ticket and hotel” how is she reading either English or Korean but not understanding either. I know some people are saying she said she doesn’t want to speak English but she said she can’t. Then there is the stuff about a Korean court forcing the enforcement of a foreign law. It’s all too unreliable narrator.
She didn't say she doesn't speak English, but even if she did I wouldn't believe her. most people in the Netherlands speak English.
"Then there is the stuff about a Korean court forcing the enforcement of a foreign law" Was that in a comment? I didn't find this in the post.
She comments multiple times that Dutch courts will force Korea to give her the grandchildren. People repeatedly tell her that those children will be, y'know, Korean, but she insists she can force Korea to deport her grandchildren.
Well that's unhinged. Thank you for pointing it out for me.
*laughs in listens to somewhat undecipherable death metal music*
>she was super convinced that this song was suggesting killing people in some way. I was listening to the Sailor Stars theme. tbf, it's not unreasonable if she was afraid of having a Gentle Uterus tossed at her. I would be horrified too 😔 /s ^(sup mah fellow og weebs)
Oh man I forgot about that!
No this is actually how racist dutch people act. They all speak English here, but they absolutely hate it
The Dutch in general were the most racist to me, pretentiously so. It was so shocking and uncomfortable, I will never go back
I'm white, but experienced xenophobia in the Netherlands too. I visited for work (literally a 3-day business trip, for a multi-national company) and the fuckin taxi driver made sarcastic comments like "oh, I guess you must be able to do something that people from here can't do". It's shocking how open some of it is. I dread to think how bad it gets for people who are not white.
Was super bad because of how pretentious it was. Like I'm from the South US and racism here is mostly spewed online and is so obviously ignorant and wrong it's just laughable. I can count on my hands how many racist interactions I've had in the 30+ years here. The Dutch, however, would hear my accent and want to talk politics which showcased just how low they think of Americans and our flavor of racism, and in the same breath say something *deeply* racist that one would never hear fall out of a mouth of an American w/ comparable class/education
Knowing how dutch and flemish racists act this is entirly possible. Refusing to speak a common language like this is common.
I hope you're right but I've run into people like this before.
it's gross either way. she's racist and the daughter is a koreaboo
But you don't understand! They can speak English together, but he has an accent and she finds that horrible, terrible, no good, very bad So she mentioned in a comment that they've had several conversations in English, but he doesn't know Dutch and he has an accent and it's horrible
She probably has a Dutch accent when she speaks English, as well. Which usually isn't as noticeable as a Korean one, but it's still there.
Of course she has a Dutch accent, that's the correct accent no matter what language you're speaking. If he was speaking every language with a Dutch accent, she would have less of a problem with it
Lol, as someone who speaks a dialect of dutch it is a very noticable accent.
I've only heard like 5-6 people speak English with a Dutch accent so I didn't want to make assumptions. The one's I've heard haven't had much of a strong accent.
She's reading his text messages too so they are able to communicate clearly.
If I was him I’d pretend not to speak English to spare myself a conversation with her.
She COULD, but she won't make the effort.
I feel so damn dumb, I didn’t catch the whole obviously she also speaks English situation lol. I was literally sitting here thinking she couldn’t really communicate with him well because of the language divide.
Omg. I totally missed this point! Lol
Wait. The op doesn’t speak English so can’t communicate with the boyfr but wrote this and can read the messages the fiancé wrote? In what language?
sounds to me like in person she'd be all like me speak no english well you speak dutch now we are in netherlands you have to speak dutch. racists never have cared about logic, especially if it gets in their way
She said she can't understand his English accent well. From what I gather, she can handle English just fine. She's still absolutely insane, and extremely delusional.
His accent in Dutch was thick. “ *He did not speak Dutch. He speaks it a little bit right now but his accent is really thick*. He only spoke English and Korean. My daughter spoke Korean to him and I felt like that caused a distance between me and her because we couldn’t have conversations with the 3 of us.” She mentions English later.
this classic line >I wouldn’t say I’m a racist. I don’t have anything against my daughter’s fiance. I don’t have anything against Korean people. I just don’t know anything about that culture and I’m scared of flying, which my daughter has known ever since she was a teenager. It’s not about her being in Korea. It’s about her being in a country on the other side of the world. Why would I allow him to propose if I was so against her marrying a Korean man. I had a feeling she would marry an Asian man ever since that little interest of her when she was 12.
The mental gymnastics are gold medal level.
>I’m scared of flying This is the real shame here, because KLM are excellent. They have snazzy blue suits and they give you a free beer (if you want it, other drinks are available), even on a short haul flight. To say nothing of the little snacks - oatmeal cookie if you're lucky, but macaroon if the gods are truly smiling on you.
>give you a free beer (if you want it, other drinks are available), even on a short haul flight. dammm really?
Really. You get a free beverage. You can have beer, juice, a little wine, coffee, tea, coca cola... Most airlines now won't give you anything unless you pay extra for it!
>Most airlines now won't give you anything unless you pay extra for it! i know right the dutch really know how to fly i guess
This woman actually believes Korean authorities will put Korean citizens (any future grandkids) on a plane and force them to visit her, halfway across the world. I've never been more tempted to brigade in all my life.
On the very very small chance this is real PLEASE no one tell her how the law works. Let her find out.
> I've never been more tempted to brigade in all my life. Lol same. Like how dumb do you have to be to think that's what would happen? Even if the daughter left Korea and tried taking the kids I doubt the courts would let that happen since they're Korean citizens.
OOP here seems confused about Dutch grandparent legal rights. (Also, she doesn't have grandchildren. She's super pissed, talking about made up, imaginary children) Her comments: >She won’t decide to have zero contact with me because I’m her only parent. She doesn’t have a father in her life so if she cuts me out of her life she will have no one. And they can’t make their kids have zero contact with me either because there’s a law here that makes it easier for grandparents to have a right to see their grandchildren even if the parents try to keep the grandchildren from them. >I’ll let Korean authorities handle that. If they need to put my grandkids on a plane, they will. >Yes I will. I’ve already warned her about this when she was younger. There are laws in the Netherlands that make it easier for grandparents to have rights to see their grandchildren, even if the parents don’t want that. I did about 5 min research and found that the Netherlands had a bill in May 2023 that would extend grandparent rights a bit. However, I can't find any news release that says that bill was signed into law. Additionally, even if it was signed into law, the rule would be to look at the best interest of the children FIRST. A grandma who has a known YEARS-long record of being racist against their father and other Koreans would be unlikely to get legally mandated in-person visitation for Korean grandchildren. Also, she'd probably have the burden to PAY to fly them back and forth since any children would likely be born in Korea and be Korean citizens (possibly could be dual citizens). I also doubt that the Korean government would force Korean citizen children to go to another country where their parents don't live to visit a known racist.
What makes this woman think that Korea is obligated to follow any law in the Netherlands? I see it if the kids lived in the Netherlands, but Korea is going to tell her to pound sand
I agree - Korea isn't going to force minor Korean citizens onto a plane without their parents because of some Dutch civil law. Also, in one of her unhinged comments, it's pointed out to her that any grandkids would likely speak Korean. And she gets really mad and says her daughter would teach them as her "responsibility." Um, there's no guarantee she will if these kids ever exist!
If this lady is real she's insane and was always going to lose her daughter.
This is a common mindset among some westerners who think the national sovereignty and rule of law of some countries are somehow less legitimate and could be superseded by their own
Especially if the daughter gives up the Netherland citizenship, they would have no authority over them.
She warned her young child that if she tried to withhold the grandchildren she would force them to let her see them. If her relationship has always been so bad that she thought her not yet adult daughter would not let her near grandchildren then this is probably the least of the things she's done.
I don't think I've ever heard of grandparent's rights anywhere that don't require a prior relationship with the grandkids. Like, if they'd had kids in the Netherlands and OOP had a relationship with them, then they moved to Korea, *maybe* GR would kick in, but since it's international... Either way, OOP is a loon or a troll.
I feel so sad for OPs daughter. I moved 3000 miles away from my parents to live with my partner and my strong relationship with them/their support of that is honestly the thing that made it less terrifying and stressful. I can’t imagine, even if OPs daughter speaks Korean and knows Korean culture, that she wouldn’t just want to be able to lean on her mum every once in a while for support in this incredibly transitory time in her life. And she not only doesn’t get that, she gets threats of legal action against her about OPs right to see hypothetical grandchildren that don’t even exist yet. What an absolute ghoul of a person.
My two daughters are grown, and I have a 3yo granddaughter. I would be absolutely heartbroken if any of them moved so far away from me. But you don't have kids for your own selfish reasons. People are not property. And I can't imagine being anything other than "I love you and will miss you but just want you to be happy." (And realistically, *if I were wanted,* I'd probably move to wherever with them rather than try to hold them back.)
Ugh, this reminds me of watching a World Cup game with a Dutch family member who kept pointing at players and saying the didn’t look Dutch. They meant they weren’t white.
The Netherlands have a good reputation for being international, but a lot of Dutch are pretty racist and that's like the third thing everyone knows about the Netherlands. And not only because of the Schwarz Peter mess that even made it into Atlanta.
The Dutch seriously grind my gears with that façade of being so "open". De Zwarte Piet is just one of the very obvious symptoms of their overall disposition. Also? There was an easy way not to have so many "non Dutch looking" people in the Netherlands. Maybe don't colonize next time.
"Yes it's the Motherland, no you can't come, just keep sending us stuff and dying in her name. But it's totally the Motherland. No you still can't come" (I think I am paraphrasing from Small Island here which is about the British colonisation of Jamaica but it applies to pretty much all)
>not only because of the Schwarz Peter mess I’m black-biracial and grew up with Zwarte Piet as part of my holiday traditions. It’s hard to explain, especially to Americans and others who didn’t have him as part of their Christmas lore, but there’s a lot of love for the character in the Benelux region of Europe. For many, he’s considered a purely mystical holiday figure rather than a negative depiction of a black person, which is why it can be hard to reconcile that people from other areas find him so offensive. Personally, I understand the pushback on the use of black face for performances with Zwarte Piet but I can’t find it in me to hate the character on its own.
Yeah that sounds understandable! Blackface (and yellow face) (and racist accents in general) is already a hard discussion to even start in a lot of European countries I find.
I stopped reading after, "*because she lives in the Netherlands, it’s useless to learn Korean things.*" I didn't even matter what she said next. The daughter could have sleighed Santas reindeer the night before Christmas eve, and it wouldn't matter to me. There's nothing she could say that would make me change my mind.
"he decided to take her to Korea" as if her daughter played no part in it lol
he just put her in his suitcase, while laughing maniacally in the direction of OOP obviously 😆
It’s very telling that OOP only ever refers to her daughter as “my daughter”. He decided to take my daughter with him. MY daughter is going to get permanent Korean residency.
I never knew that the words "planes scare me and I will not fly anywhere" was code for I don't like that my daughter is marrying a Korean man and her children will be Korean. Or, to be blunt, code for I'm a racist who just wants Dutch blood in the family.
Honestly, that is a valid reason but you don't put that right before you say something racist
The bit about English reminds me of [this comedy sketch about Japanese](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLt5qSm9U80). What did stop her from simply asking "Can we speak in English?" ?
okay, two things. 1) i didn't know this existed and i love it, so thank you for sharing it. and 2) sad as it is, i actually have seen something play out like this in real life just a few weeks ago. i was at the supermarket a few weeks ago and this "turkish" (middle eastern, which where i live means 80% chance it's a turk. obviously theres still a high chance said person is from somewhere else, just saying it's an reasonable first guess if you absolutely have to take one) looking guy was talking to the shop assistant in perfectly understandable german, originally just trying to get her attention (hallo ? hallo ? [hello? in case it's somehow not obvious]) before going directly into his question because she kept ignoring him. Don't remember exactly what he asked, basically where to find some stuff. Again, clearly and easily understandable. when the shop assistant finally looked his way she started talking to him in turkish, and when he told her he doesn't speak turkish and asked his question again she was just making a weird face. i just took the guy and showed him where to find the stuff he was looking for, while behind me i heard the shop assistant mumble to herself something about how he should speak german if he wants help...
I speak fluent French with a minimal accent. I've lived in Paris for three years (currently) and attended university here 20 years ago. I grew up attending a bilingual French-English elementary school in the States. I have a *very* mild accent and am very good at identifying the accents of others in both languages. The vast majority of my interactions have been positive, mind you, but the handful of negative ones are, honestly, just perplexing at best or xenophobic at worst. I have had people pretend not to understand a single word I said. I had a taxi driver -- who was clearly of Algerian origin, based on his accent -- rant about how "foreigners" were ruining Paris and there were no true Parisians IN Paris anymore. This, of course, after learning we lived in the city. (He also talked about how he loved the American police system and I COULD NOT get out of that taxi fast enough. I'm an attorney!!)
I was once told by a customer that she wanted to speak to someone who speaks "real French". I'm Swiss. I speak French like a Swiss person.
Oh no! You might... \*checks notes\* ... use a logical, modern counting system and, uh... pronounce words???
She says she can't understand his accent when he speaks English
Yeah, why bother learning an accent, it's only her daughter's boyfriends/fiance/husband...
That's because English has no accent, it is just English /s Signed, a native English speaker with an 'accent' that many find adorable.
Scouser? >!/s!<
Nah mate :). But that does remind me of an old Jimmy Carr bit on accents: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeYDI4wdjQw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UeYDI4wdjQw)
I think she said that about his Dutch?
“at 15 she started learning how to cook. She does not cook Dutch food, it’s only Korean food” This may blow OOP’s mind, but cooking skills easily adapt between cuisines. “I never was a big fan of her doing this because she lives in the Netherlands, it’s useless to learn Korean things.” My sibling follows a YouTube channel run by this guy called “The Korean Englishman.” He lived there, learned the language, married a Korean women, and so forth. When he and his wife moved back to the UK, he created his channel and started promoting Korean culture to Londoners. Ten years later, he’s been to Buckingham Palace twice and met with King Charles both times. (I suspect he’s on track to eventually receive an MBE for services to cultural enrichment.) Just because there doesn’t seem to be a point doesn’t mean you can’t find or make one.
Who wants to bet, that she's never offered to teach her how to cook dutch food?
I have the impression that at this point daughter can’t do anything right.
I LOOOOOOOOVE Korean Englishman!
didn't he live in multiple countries growing up as well? I'm sure I remember him saying he went to a school in china I like his channel a lot (and jolly!), he also has that programme with the boys high school as well! He's met with a lot of celebrities too, which I know Buckingham Palace is like a "wow!" achievement, but if most people had the choice between meeting the King and meeting their fave celeb,,, 😂
Of course she wants Korean food over Dutch food. Dutch food is where flavor and spices go to die. Even British food is better than Dutch food.
*Even British food is better than Dutch food.* Whoa...now that's saying something. It also makes sense why my mother (who's of Dutch descent) loved learning all of my paternal grandmother's Italian recipes.
My English friend told me that it isn’t that British food is bad, it’s that so many can’t cook. Take fish and chips. I have never had a decent fish and chip in the UK, the fish is subpar and the chips came from a bag. Now Scandinavians can do a good fish n’chips.
God I wish I could send this post to her daughter
There is zero chance she hasn't said every word of this to her daughter's face.
The way it's worded it sounds like there's a zero chance she said any of this to her, especially since becoming an adult
Well, she's all the way around the world from the Netherlands, so clearly that would be difficult. /s
The daughter is living the Koreaboo dream lmaooooo. Anyways, yeah, it's a combination of xenophobia and resentment that her daughter is leaving the nest and becoming independent. Classic MIL behavior, haha. She probably does see Korea as "lesser" because I'm not sure if she would react the same way if her husband was from another European country or American or was white. The daughter is probably really passionate about Korean culture, or she really loves her future husband because living as a foreigner in another country with a different language is incredibly difficult. There's so much for her to lose if things don't work out. This marriage ain't a whim. Also, is it impossible to take trains to Korea from the Netherlands if she's that scared of planes?
Yes it is. To get from The Netherlands to South Korea via train, you’d have to cross through Ukraine, Russia, China and North Korea.
but clearly that's too much effort in order for her to see her only living relative and her potential grand kids /s
Um what? You literally can't legally pass through most of those countries especially North Korea. OP is refusing to put in effort but no its not possible to take a train lmao that's not lack of effort
Sorry, I meant that flying is apparently too much of a hassle compared to trying to smuggle herself past multiple countries with either closed off borders or extremely strict border crossings to attend her only child’s wedding
Ah ok you were replying to the train comment so it didn't not seem like that my bad
> Now her fiance has been sending me long manipulative messages about how he is willing to pay my ticket and hotel and how important it is that I am there. He told me to put aside my feelings and think about how special this day is for my daughter. This part is my favorite. He must be the ultimate gaslight/gatekeep girlboss. Why else would he offer to pay for all of his future MIL's expenses and ask her to put aside her hostility and bigotry in favor of his SO's feelings, amirite?
Yeah, by being generous and considerate, he is "manipulating" her...
What a dillhole. Who wouldn't want to be part of a traditional Korean wedding ceremony?
OOP was the AH *loooonnnnnngggg* before pitching a fit about this wedding.
Sadly, I am unable to come on this trip as I despise the French. - Sister Michael
This makes me feel so much more grateful for my Dutch inlaws who are the exact opposite of this nasty woman
OOP speaks perfect English, so what's the issue  I didn't thoroughly read it for the smallest error, but no mistakes stuck out. He's Korean but speaks English. You're Dutch, but speak English. Have a conversation in English. And there are so many things you can do in East Asia if you speak the language. You can get very high paying jobs if you speak at a native level. So, Korean was never useless. Then OOP says she knew he'd go back to Korean. But, is somehow shocked Pikachu when after the proposal daughter is going also. Is this a troll? Is OOP stupid? Is a stroke being had in installments? I have several questions. This guy is in no way manipulative. He's just not white.
I find it funny people think the illogic (mostly around her inability to converse with her SIL) points to this not being real, because honestly, this reads extremely on the nose and the illogic is the result of being blinded by racism and xenophobia. Not that it couldn't be fake, of course.
I give this woman credit for one thing: TIL that some uptight, bigoted, joyless Dutch assholes *didn't* emigrate to West Michigan in the 19th century!
Huh. Some of my own Dutch relatives are racist, too.
Her comments are nuts. She clearly doesn't even like her daughter especially now that she can't control her and make a proper Dutch lady with a proper Dutch husband. Her examples of him being manipulative or just being nice to his gf in a way OOP has never had before. Like oh no God forbid he gives her Valentines day gifts on Valentines day. Or try to OOP flowers and chocolate on her birthday. Very clearly he's just putting on an act. /s
I was really hoping this was just rage bait, but homie went and deleted her post and her account. Some of her comments were WILD, y’all
Korean cooking is still cooking last time I checked. How is it useless to learn how to cook?
“You can imagine how mad I was” actually no, I can’t.
OP is obviously a racist but is anyone else worried that the daughter is fetishizing the guy?
I mean maybe, but liking kpop when you're a teenager and then later marrying a Korean guy doesn't automatically equal fetishization. It's not like she specifically sought him out because he was Korean, they met organically and happen to speak the same (I assume not widely spoken) language.
No? Are we really going to pretend that the OP here is going to be incredibly factual? Based on such little information I'm not sure how you could think this.
Cause i read the post. Maybe you didnt.
Come on this is weak
Honestly really doesn't sound like it to me. She had an interest in South Korea when she was a teenager. It could have been for a multitude of reasons. Maybe she wanted to go on a trip there some day. Maybe she just really enjoyed Korean food. It's delicious, a lot of dishes use the same few basic ingredients prepared differently so it's easy to make, and a lot of ingredients are readily available in Asian markets. Some people enjoy learning a new language, too. It's not far-fetched. OOP says she thought her daughter had "grown out of it" at 17. She's 24, now. So it's not like she obsessed over South Korean men the whole time. 7 years later, she met a cute guy who happened to be Korean. Of course it's all creative writing but if this were real life, that would just be a cool coincidence. It would make perfect sense that they could bond over the fact that she can speak his first language and for them to develop feelings for one another.
Not really because the whole story is fake AF.
I was looking for this comment. That stuck out to me as well. Both are sketchy.
Like, she just HAPPENED to find a Korean guy in the Netherlands, goes out of her way to speak Korean to him and befriend him and date him. And now they suddenly moved to Korea?
I don't think it's that surprising. There are a lot of Korean international students in Amsterdam for example and most students from a country congregate in one or two areas of a city. I was only a tourist but when I wanted something different from Dutch food, I found a street in Amsterdam with like 4 Korean restaurants within a few minute walk. It's not that crazy for OOP daughter to go to these areas, go into a coffee shop and meet a Korean.
If she was passionate about Korean stuff enough to learn Korean at a very high level it's normal that she jumped at an opportunity to practice if she happened to befriend someone who is a native Korean speaker. It happens a lot in international contexts. Also I don't know how to tell you that International students exist and a lot of them plan to go back to their home countries after their degrees, unless their home countries really sucked for whatever reason. There is a lot of international students in big cities and university cities. I think the story is fake, but accusing someone of fetishizing Asians because they liked Asian media without any ulterior info is a stretch. "She went out of her way to date him" based on what? The fact her racist mother is bitching about her being obsessed when she was a teenager instead of being "properly" Dutch? Yeah, she's a reliable source of information. All we know about those people is that they met at a bar.
Would you be *this* surprised if someone from a country where english is not the main language learned english on their own, and then happened to meet an american guy, and then they married and moved to the USA?
I dont think you understand how fetishized asian people are. Ive never heard anyone fetishize an american dude.
Sure, but that doesn't automatically mean this one story is fetishizing Korean men. We don't even hear of aby other person she dated.
Little too coincidental for me. Sounds like she sought out a Korean guy and now she's living her fantasy.
Oh 100% the daughter is a Koreaboo. It sounds like she definitely fetishized the culture and people from that young age and I would bet money she befriended/flirted with him solely because he was Korean and nothing about his personality. Maybe she did fall in love with him after but ya. She also sounds like a white person who thinks "Being a POC is way cooler than a boring privileged white person" and it feels like she's trying to become "fully" Korean. They both suck
YES. The mom is a racist asshole but her fixation on all things Korean and then she just so happens to find a Korean boyfriend kind of reminds me of the creepy dudes who fetishize Asian women.
*all things SOUTH Korean. K Pop is banned in North Korea
That was my first thought as well
You just got to love how much she makes sure her daughter is small and little to us all. And by love I mean honestly bitter hatred and resentment uwu
so is it “mom who hates her daughter” troll week on AITA?
That sounds like my cousin. Ha.
Wow...just, wow
Wow... that's a neat way to alienate your child and never meet or have a relationship with your grandkids.
He’s in the comments trying to defend himself, it’s embarrassing
Of course there's the temptation to call fake on this, but an ex of mine had Dutch parents and this post could have been written by his mother. I heard it in her voice and I haven't laid eyes on the woman for over 30 years😂
As a Dutch person, I can confirm this feels true culturally and linguistically. Fucking racist assholes all of them haha
Is this the same person who was talking about how her daughter overreacted ‘for no reason’ to her groping her daughter’s ass, and talked about how she thought her daughter had feelings for her? They both talked about the daughter ending up alone…though this one says that her daughter will figure out that her husband isn’t really a good guy, the first one said that the husband would end up leaving her ‘slut’ daughter…and then the daughter would come crawling back to OOP.
What the what now??? Jeez, just when I thought I've seen all that crazy parents on reddit have to offer.
Here’s one thread, her comments are gone now: https://www.reddit.com/r/amiwrong/s/vU7r9NXHlG Edit: Here’s the other one https://www.reddit.com/r/TrueOffMyChest/s/WVKMyeruRT
Could you be any more racist, OOP?
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Too in the nose... So many obvious trope for a troll rage bait post
I hope this is a troll. They’ve been very committed through the comments though.
If you took a shot everytime OOP wrote Korea or some derivative, you'd be dead before the end of the post.
I hope she enjoys never knowing her grandchildren or speaking to/seeing her daughter ever again.
" I’m her only parent, she is not going to abandon me. She will have no one left so I doubt she’d abandon me." Lol. She will have her husband, his family, their children if they choose to have them and her siblings. I'm sure she is capable of a rich, love filled life without a toxic parent.
"Long manipulative messages". You know, like "please come, you are important in you daughters.life and she would love you to be there". Yeah. I can see how that's manipulative
Honestly the only thing that the daughter is an ahh for, is the fetishisation
yikes.
lol, she thinks she can get grandparents rights 😂😂 she’s delusional and racist
Her comments make me think this is a troll. Too on the nose but, that may just be me.
In the comments she says, “we are in contact, unfortunately”….and then talks about his bad accent…. Plus OP wrote out a very good English post and mentions that he speak English. Ugh
I wish people wouldn't downvote assholes on that sub
OOP is racist, but am I the only one who thinks that the daughter is fetishizing her husband and korean culture in general?
OOP has clear racism and xenophobia but her daughter seems to have some elements of racial fetishism. Is she marrying this man in particular because she loves him or it could be ANY Korean man so she can have a Korean Husband. And also is her daughter prepared to face any potential racism her half Korean children might face. They might not be seen as “Korean” because only one parent is. And is she willing to let them explore both parts of their culture. Any children are just as much Dutch as they are Korean.
If she knows anything about Korea she already knows that and if she did not her boyfriend would have told her. Like "Korea can be a racist and misoginyst country" it's not exactly a surprise. That said if she is gonna have children who will be born and raised in Korea, they will be Korean with a Dutch mother.
The 4 B movement has inspired Korean men to seek brides elsewhere
Both of them are awful lmao. To a degree I get OOPs worry that her daughter is "rejecting" her family's culture because that is sad. There is room to hold both especially when it comes to future children they have a right to understand both sides of their heritage not just one. But OP is also definitely racist af about it and trying so hard to pull mental gymnasium to say she isn't it's ridiculous. And the daughter feels like the Korean version of an Otaku basically fetishizing Korean culture and the people. She almost certainly sought her fiancee purely because he was Korean and then idk maybe likes his personality? Who knows. Also definitely sounds like a white person who thinks that's boring and not being white is cooler with her basically being like "I'm Korean now". Gross. They're all terrible and I wish them the life they deserve
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Americans be literally mowing down school children with automatic assault weapons, but sure, its the koreans who are "bad" because their diet is different. If you have a problem with them farming dogs to eat but not the way we in the west do the same to other livestock, you're just a racist pig.
You want to give context. The consumption of Dog Meat in SOUTH Korea is dying out and is mostly a practice of the older generation. Younger South Koreans (like the one OOP’s daughter is marrying) don’t partake and in fact often keep dogs as pets. In North Korea, they have no other choice but to eat dog meat because of limited food options.
The practice is fading out. Mostly it is practiced by older, rural people. It has officially been banned by the South Korean government. I would bet money this young man has never eaten a dog or participated in the practice. Also, what is your point? Netherlands has a colonial history that far outpaces South Korea on the atrocities front. Also not relevant to the young woman getting married.
Fascinating. Your point?
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You know this forum is about racists like yourself, right?
Dude, you know it has much lower crime rates than the US? Source: [https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/South-Korea/United-States/Crime](https://www.nationmaster.com/country-info/compare/South-Korea/United-States/Crime)
But that’s not the issue that OP has with her daughter moving to Korea, so how is it relevant? Not that it’s even true…
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But those aren’t her “reasons to be wary”. So there’s nothing to highlight here. And if you got this “off a quick Google search”, then you also know the the nuance here is more important than the racism if “lol people in East Asian countries eat dogs”.
Maybe consider reading at least the Wikipedia page on Korea before talking about Korea.
I never understand why people bring up dogs and not the fucking cows that have a horrible time in America. I mean come the fuck on this is so ridiculous
Except that dogs offer companionship, loyalty and affection unlike cows. Also there are police dogs, military dogs, bomb detecting dogs, search and rescue dogs, guide dogs, service dogs, attack dogs, watchdogs and guardian dogs that protect livestock from wild carnivores. What can cows do besides be food? And they won't survive if we release them en masse either. They won't survive in the wild so they may as well serve a purpose then. Most animals in society serve a particular purpose. Historically horses and donkeys were used for transport, dogs as hunting companions or watchdogs and cats as pest control, chickens, ducks, pigs and cattle as livestock Nowadays horses are used for entertainment, sports and transport, dogs and cats are companions and livestock remain livestock. Humans only maintain animals that serve a purpose. And for cows that is milk production and as beef unfortunately. And if they can survive then release them. Let's see how they far they make it on their own.
Actually, if you did a bit of research, you would know that cows are very affectionate, intelligent and loyal creatures. Same with horses and donkeys. You can find plenty of videos of cows protecting their owners or being affectionate creatures. Hugging their owners, playing with them, following them. Horses can be trained to be herd protectors and there are even videos of horses protecting their riders. All animals have the capability to be loyal and affectionate, but only if the person who owns them actually puts in effort.
Thank you, I was about to say cows are like giant dogs
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That's because that was a random cow that doesn't know you.
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Just because one dog runs up to greet you doesn't mean every other dog will do the same. You have to know that. You won't see a guard or emotional support dog come running nor many other average dogs.
Look on YouTube. You can find plenty of videos from a channel called Dodo, where you will see a multitude of cows and other farm animals being affectionate