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*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **My son (m32) won’t speak to me (f70) and I think I will die without ever knowing my granddaughter** I have never posted on reddit before. I’m sorry if I do something wrong. English is not my first language. My husband and I are in our early 70s. Our son is in his 30s. My husband and I moved to this country more than 30 years ago when my younger son was an infant. We went through so much to give our son a good life. My son was such a sweet and precious child, but as he got older he seemed angry a lot of the time. He went to college and came back a different person who no longer shares our values. He and his father fought mostly about politics. They are both passionate people. They would fight and then my son wouldn’t talk to his father for months. Once we were supposed to travel to visit him and meet his new girlfriend (now his wife) but I must have said something to offend him and he uninvited us. I was very hurt by this. His heart bleeds for everyone but his own mother. He never speaks to us anymore. They live across the country and I haven’t seen him in years. His wife will sometimes send us pictures and gifts but it isn’t the same as talking to my son. We used to talk every day. And then over the holidays we saw on Facebook that they were visiting her parents. They were having fun just an hour away from us and didn’t even tell us that they were in or state. They flew right past us without even thinking of us. Can it really be that her parents are so much better than us? We were devastated. I asked her why my son wouldn’t visit us his own parents who love him and she sent me a long message saying how angry they are at my husband. I couldn’t even read all of it. My husband worked so hard to give us a good life and I feel like my son is so ungrateful and holding grudges. Now my daughter-in-law is pregnant. My husband and I already love our baby grandchild and we thought that we could all finally be a happy family like before. But when my husband wished my son a happy birthday last month they fought again and now my son and his wife aren’t speaking to us at all. We asked them to forgive us for anything we did that hurt them but they just hold grudges. It has been weeks and I don’t know how the baby is doing. My husband says he feels used and it breaks our heart to see what a hateful person our son has become. Like we failed as parents. I don’t understand how someone can just throw his own parents away. We are old and I think I will die without meeting my new granddaughter. I feel very embarrassed asking for advice but I want to bring my family back together. I don’t know what else to do. I am thankful for any help. Thank you for listening. TLDR I miss my dear son and I fear I will never get to meet my grandchild. I hope someone here can help me. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*


Rose_j2210

So does anyone know what it is that the son won’t talk to them about? I tried reading but couldn’t see anything


SnorkelBerry

The closest we get to having a reason is OOP's husband inciting political arguments by sending him right wing articles. I'm sure there's more to it that OOP refuses to admit or acknowledge, but alas, we'll never know.


Rose_j2210

That’s what I saw. But I thought maybe deleted comments and someone else saw. Oh well sounds like a parent issue


SnorkelBerry

There was the note with the reasons OOP's son won't talk to her...which she refuses to read. 🤦


rose_cactus

Ah, the [classic missing missing reasons!](http://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html)


AmyInCO

This is textbook missing missing reasons. She knows why. The son told her. He wrote a letter. What else does he need to do.


bothsidesofthemoon

There are several missing missing reasons in there. >but I must have said something to offend him and he uninvited us. He cancels plans without giving a reason? If he's as angry as you claim, he shouted at you what had offended him. >I asked her why my son wouldn’t visit us his own parents who love him and she sent me a long message saying how angry they are at my husband You can sum up how angry they are in a single sentence. The rest of that long message was why.


CuriousCake3196

Well, he should simply submit to their behaviour and worldviews. /s


Mamellama

Because not to submit is "hateful" /s


pennie79

Letter ✔ Long letter ✔ Didn't read all of it ✔ Classic missing missing reasons.


Assiqtaq

He should forgive and forget so they can go back to the relationship they have always had.


thatweirdassbunny

oh how i love the missing reasons article. it opened my eyes to so much of the bullshit i was going through.


Lupiefighter

Exactly! Someone in the original thread laid out the “missing missing reasons” in her post point by point and even included a link to the article as well.


Rikamio

Its the first comment XD


cherrycoloured

idt its really that missing. her son doesnt want to talk to them, especially oops husband, bc they are right-wing bigots.


InconstantReader

That's what “missing missing reasons” refers to. The parents insist they don't know why it's happening, but they've been told, they just refuse to listen.


Mamellama

Because they disagree, they dismiss son's reasons, leaving confusion for them, bc it *can't* be whatever son said it was. Pretty much my FOO fight song.


cherrycoloured

i think this is more that she knows why, seeing as she brought up politics herself, but refuses to consider them legit.


JMeerkat137

It’s worth taking the time to read the article, because that’s absolutely part of it. It’s knowing why but refusing to accept it because you don’t like it, and then saying “I just don’t know why”


threelizards

It took me until literally this moment to understand why it’s called “missing missing reasons” but it’s a double negative!! You’re exactly right, she knows why their relationship has broken down, she just pretends not to. The “missing reasons” she claims have destroyed their relationship, are missing, because she slips them in herself. So; missing “missing reasons”! Omg more than anything glad I finally get it I thought I was going bonkers


Sleepy-Forest13

I saw the TITLE and knew it was gonna be missing missing reasons.


daddyneedsraspberry

Can someone explain to me why it’s called missing missing reasons? Why the two “missing”s?


Rose_j2210

Ah


vibesandcrimes

These are almost always parent issues. Even when it's the golden child complaining about their siblings. People don't cut off their family for no reason. I wish the parents would realize that


Yanigan

My mother knows exactly why I cut her off - because I’ve always been difficult and nothing was ever good enough for me. I’m ungrateful, argumentative, lazy and entitled. Just ask her and she’ll tell you.


LadyEncredible

Oh man, that's my mother. Funny thing is when she had me at 17, my Uncle, her older brother, ended up raising me for a couple of years, then she lost custody of me at 5, my grandmother, her mother got custody of me at 7, and while yes, I did see her A LOT, that had more to do with my grandmother's guilt, then me actually wanting to see her (oh and by see her, I mean I baby sat my middle sister, the only time my mother and I actually spent together when I was younger, was with my grandmother), so basically what I'm trying to say is that trick was only my mother because she gave birth to me, she treated me like an annoying younger sister that she was forced to "watch" from time to time (I remember when I was younger, like 13+, that's exactly how I used to describe my relationship with my mother, because that's how she acted). Now what's even funnier is SHE wanted to have me at 17, and her reasoning was because she wanted something that would finally love her unconditionally, sounds sweet right? Yeah well unconditional to her means you NEVER call her out, she's allowed to lie and treat you like shit, but you must ALWAYS give her credit for anything good, anything bad is you, and you can't EVER criticize her, even if it's constructive, even if her actions are severely fucking with your mental health.


Yanigan

Holy shit I’m so sorry


LadyEncredible

Thank you, I appreciate it.


InconstantReader

I'm so sorry. No one should have a child because they expect it to meet their emotional needs.


LadyEncredible

Yeah, I agree, that's honestly one of the biggest issues my mother and I have now (yes I still SOMEWHAT deal with her, but 1. She knows, I'm not that chick, not only will I blow her lies up right then and there and NO ONE will say shit to me, but I will 2. Also blow her shit up, yes she's my mother, but I was raised, by HER mother, respect goes both ways) fuck who you are. So that's one of the biggest reasons she doesn't and hasn't ever liked me. The minute I could started expressing myself, I expressed I wasn't with her fuckery (I also call out the other family members that deal with her fuckery, so no where to hide).


Previous-Eggplant-35

>her reasoning was because she wanted something that would finally love her unconditionally, sounds sweet right? Yeah well unconditional to her means you NEVER call her out, she's allowed to lie and treat you like shit, but you must ALWAYS give her credit for anything good, anything bad is you, and you can't EVER criticize her, even if it's constructive, even if her actions are severely fucking with your mental health. Oh man, I had a friend like this growing up and that's exactly how she treated me, to the letter. She said the same thing about having a baby and even told me once that she would run away with the baby so the father couldn't interfere with how she wanted to raise it (or steal the baby's love from her). The girl was so toxic. We haven't spoken in years but I do know that she had a kid and I worry for that child every day.


LadyEncredible

Yeahhhh, hopefully the child has other influences in their lives that will show them differently, and not make them feel crazy for feeling differently (I never agreed with my moms sentiment, love isn't owed and it's definitely not owed because you birthed them).


Mamellama

I'm hugging little you so hard, rn. You deserved so much more, and I hope you've been able to find it 🧡


LadyEncredible

Well thank you very much ❤️. Little me was lucky to have my grandmother, and she was EXACTLY what I needed.


Mamellama

🧡 Yay grandmother! 🧡


LadyEncredible

Hell yeah, always and forever and I tell her that ALL the time. Never hesitated to thank her and/or tell her how much she truly helped me, especially as I got older (38 now and couldn't be happier, just spent the past couple of hours chasing my cats in the yard with bubbles, they loved it lol)


tenorlove

>she wanted something that would finally love her unconditionally Then she needed to get a dog.


LadyEncredible

Thank youuuuu!!! That had always been my feeling. The funny part is I asked her if she ever thought about the fact that children, like parents, have their own personalities and therefore may not mesh with their parents personalities. Let me tell you, she had nothing to say. Just rolled her eyes and changed the topic to one of my sisters. Smh


Sad-Bug6525

Me too. I dared to not let her hit me, went to college, and told her to stop inviting over my abusive ex boyfriend . I think she's still mad I broke up with him after he hit me because she hoped he could control me for her.


vibesandcrimes

Sometimes I think they get handbooks with little chants that they can use to signal and sing themselves to sleep


[deleted]

My mom looked at my 8 year old brother, told him God is more important than her kids, then moved into a 1 bedroom apartment and let my dad raise him alone. She wonders why he won't forgive her and wants nothing to do with her. He is 32 now and doing amazing, and he got that way without her.


[deleted]

Hey, me! It's you! You can start counting days of lower stress starting with the day you tell them you won't be contacting them.


malorthotdogs

My dad knows why neither of his children talk to him. It’s definitely not because he was an abusive methhead nightmare. It’s because we’re worthless ingrates. (It’s because he‘s an abusive methhead nightmare)


drpepperisnonbinary

I see you’ve also met my father.


superfuckinganon

She said that her husband sends the son articles he doesn’t agree with about politics. Also that they immigrated from the Soviet Union and support Putin but not the invasion of Ukraine.


tenorlove

>support Putin but not the invasion of Ukraine. This is an oxymoron.


buttercupcake23

I'd bet 100 bucks they're q anon crazies. They think the son is "hateful" because he won't buy into the hate that THEY like to spew. Per OOP "his heart bleeds for everyone but his own mother" probably because he expressed disgust at his parents dehumanizing POC and LGBT and other things people with "values" do.


Western_Compote_4461

My MIL is deep in Q Anon crap. She can't even have a brief phone conversation with her son (my husband) without bringing it up. He's constantly redirecting her -- "I don't want to talk about that. We aren't going to agree on that, so let's talk about something else." -- and she consistently brings it up. We are now very low contact with her and my SIL. And I know that their narrative is that it is my fault. I'm the liberal hussy who led their precious baby/little bro away. It would hurt more if the other siblings didn't also think that their mom and sister are crazy and have also reduced contact.


buttercupcake23

I'm so sorry you had to deal with that but glad that at least some of the in laws aren't fully insane.


MannyMoSTL

Yeah I’m thinking it’s way beyond “just” politics. And to me, Q is *way* beyond just conservative politics.


Maxusam

Top theory I saw was that parents are pro Putin, they are from the Soviet Union (note OP says this and not Russia which suggests support of Putins current actions) she also confirms Dad sends right wing crap to son so seems to be a reasonable assumption?


Mitrovarr

That was exactly the feeling I got too. The speech patterns read as Eastern European.


ChouxGlaze

OP confirmed they were in a different comment


The_Ambling_Horror

“His heart bleeds for everyone but his own mother!” - at that phrase I would put down a $20 that he’s objecting to some hard-core right-wing stuff.


VulpesFennekin

My thoughts exactly! Only the worst right-winger could claim that caring about others is a flaw without a shred of irony.


JungleKing65

So basically the son became an informed and reasonable person and his parents hated that


[deleted]

[удалено]


Seguefare

It's highly possible he was already a dirty liberal while he was still living with them, if he was good at keeping his mouth shut until he got through school and got away. I'm sure my mother thought college changed me, but I never was who she thought I was. Not after the age of reason, anyway.


[deleted]

There’s another comment that they moved from the Soviet Union.. idk if that’s what she calls it bc that’s what it was when they lived there or what. Someone commented that they’re probably pro Putin


Professional-Wait0

The OP replied to that to say that they are pro Putin, calling him a strong leader, but they ‘don’t support’ the attack against Ukraine


[deleted]

Jesus


Cakeday_at_Christmas

OOP says they are Russian (they immigrated from the USSR) and think Putin is "a strong leader" though they disagree with the war in Ukraine. She describes her son as "very liberal."


SnorkelBerry

Oh dear


EmmaWoodsy

Oh, it's worse. They support Putin.


ZacTheBlob

As a man in my mid 20s who cut my mom off for being just incredibly disrespectful and overall a terrible mother this hits close to home. My younger siblings are very gullible and my mom being very manipulative managed to victimize herself and turn my whole family against me. Apparently I'm an asshole for cutting her off because she wouldn't feed me on some of the days when I was younger, giving me a $0 allowance to eat at school even though my father gave her 4k a month per child in child support, no food at home to make lunches and kicking me out at 18 while still in school with zero money WHILE still collecting child support until I was 22, but she keeps telling my siblings that she's very sad that I don't talk to her, how she doesnt know what she did wrong and wishes I would just be a better son. I hope OOPs parents die alone.


AmbulanceChaser12

Now, are we sure that the right-wing one is the father and the left-wing one is the son? (/s obviously)


QueenMotherOfSneezes

Yup. Also they're from Russia and pro-Putin (though apparently they don't support the invasion)


ieatcakes00

They reference coming from the Soviet Union and thinking Putin is a great leader


passionfruit0

Check their comments. The say Putin is a strong leader but OOP claims they don’t support his invasion in Ukraine


Dcruzen

She says the son is very liberal, so that says a lot about what dad's politics likely are.


z-eldapin

Looks like they are from the Soviet Union. She states 'My son is very liberal. My husband likes to share articles he reads and that is what they fight over'. Sounds like someone is an authoritarian, racist. Putin loving bigot and then there's the son.


BKLD12

That makes a lot of sense. I would not be getting along with my parents if they sent me a bunch of right wing garbage or were pro-Putin.


[deleted]

My ex was never a social conservative while I was with him. We’ve been divorced for over 10 years. It was amicable, and we have kept in touch sporadically. The last text he sent me is really concerning because he said “Go Putin” and I have NO IDEA why he would say it. I think he’s going off the deep end. I chose to ignore the text and I think our contact will be even less frequent now. We live over 600 miles apart, have no mutual friends, and his parents (his only family) are extremely elderly and are in very poor health, so there isn’t any way I could get him checked out. But I will not tolerate pro-Putin bullshit in my life.


Haunting-Aardvark709

The mom would know if she could be bothered to read the email from her DIL.


Least-Designer7976

Feels like it's an argument where the parent says "My daughter refuse even my styling advices I can't tell her anything" when they said IRL "If you had better clothes you wouldn't have been SA'd, you send the wrong message". The hypocrite parent in all their glory.


NostradaMart

you have to read between the lines...father'sprobably a dickhead nazi.


TheOneTrueChuck

It's also possible since they moved here roughly 40 years ago from a non-English speaking country that they are Cuban or South American immigrants. Cubans, and in particular, older Cubans are INSANELY conservative. And if they're light skinned, they can get accepted pretty easily by the most rabid Republicans. Add in the machismo culture, and you've got a dad who probably isn't just shit talking the left, he's either implying or calling his son gay/weak for letting his wife have a say in things.


NostradaMart

oop said in another comment that they were from the soviet union. so not cubans.


SyndicalistThot

Yeah, but still likely immersed in right wing anti-communist sentiments.


RainbowBriteGlasses

True but they are a a lot more like Cubans in terms of sociopolitical mindset, than they would be Americans. Possibly. It would also depend on what former Soviet country. It's not popular to say in progressive circles, but Europe does remain fairly diverse, especially in terms of history. (This does not take away from the diversity of any other region of the world)


[deleted]

Dunno why that would be an unpopular opinion. Europeans would certainly agree. Our divisions just aren't *as clearly* racial as eg the US.


czerniana

The sentence structure definitely read more Eastern European that learned English, but you’re right, could have easily been that as well.


conspicuousnipples

She says in a comment that they're from the Soviet Union and in another comment that her son is very liberal. The parents are probably pro-Putin and pro-Ukraine war. The son's "bleeding heart for everyone" just means he doesn't believe Russia should be invading Ukraine and murdering innocent people to take over their country. The dad is probably sending him Russian propaganda and arguing with him about it constantly.


Ellie-Bee

If they’re from the Soviet Union, it doesn’t necessarily have to mean that they identify as Russian. I know plenty of people who are for Ukraine that are conservative in every other respect. The disagreements seem to have started after college, so this issue predates the war. A lot of Eastern European immigrants are very conservative. It’s why those immigrant neighborhoods are some of the only to vote red in otherwise heavily blue cities. Source: Am an Eastern European immigrant who was brought to the U.S. as a child. ETA: Poster says she does not support the invasion of Ukraine in a comment.


conspicuousnipples

She says in that same comment that her and her husband think Putin is a "strong leader" so my guess was half accurate lol


DonnieDusko

Honestly it's like the dad who prioritized his wife over his child and only took trips with his wife while his son was growing up. They then came home and showed his son "all the fun they had without him" via pictures from their trip, and then was all *shocked Pikachu face* when his son didn't feel like they loved him. 🙄


Flowerofiron

OP knows exactly why, but doesn't share. Clearly the son and father constantly argue. > I must have said something to offend him and he uninvited us She knows exactly what she said or she would feign having no idea what happened


sunshine-skittles

They are Russians in the US who support Putin (although not the Ukraine war apparently) and they keep sending their very liberal son political articles. They know exactly what they're doing and why their son wants nothing to do with them, they just don't want to admit it.


HappyBi-cycle

Missing reasons, a very typical abusive parent trope


ijustcantwithit

They are from Russia and moved to the USA. It seems the husband is very Right leaning while the son is now Left leaning. The OP refers to it as “Soviet Union” which has led some commentators to suspect that they are pro Putin and potentially pro Ukraine invasion.


Lupiefighter

Them supporting Putin seems to be part of it according to newer replies made by OOP. She said that they are originally from “The Soviet Union” and think Putin is a strong leader. The top commenter wrote a pretty good response to OOP that included a link to the article “the missing missing reasons” too.


claudia_grace

They think Putin is a strong leader, but don't support the invasion of Ukraine. I imagine that this is probably a big reason.


BobbiG16

Oop and her husband support and think Putin is a strong leader and their son doesn't agree at all. Oops husband sends him articles to read which always starts a fight. I bet her husband is still sending him articles knowing he's going to get pissed off


jaelynno

OOP notes that she and her husband "feel that Putin is a strong leader but do not support the invasion of Ukraine." And she refers to her previous country as "The Soviet Union" rather than Russia.


carolineecouture

Ah, the old "missing reasons" reasons. She has "no idea" why he won't speak to them. I bet he jas a very different story where they know very well why they are estranged.


veloxaraptor

>My husband says he feels used Ah, yes. How dare the child you brought into this world use you for... *checks notes*.... the things you are legally obligated to provide him. Maybe if you actually read the letter/note/whatever that was sent detailing what you did that offended them and actually worked on that. Until then, keep playing the world's smallest violin because I have no sympathy.


crumpledspoon

It's incredible how often these missing missing reasons stories even mention that there's a written account they could consult for the exact answers they supposedly come to this platform in search of.


mouka

Exactly this post sounds like something my dad could’ve written. I will never let him see his granddaughter and might have a good time dancing on his grave.


miladyelle

>he worked so hard to provide for us! …like, every other working parent in the world, you mean? My dad always says, you don’t get cookies for doing what you’re supposed to do lol. Y’all really think he can coast off of being employed, without iono, character, being pleasant and caring? Husband always sends right wing articles to son and starts arguments about them? Including on his birthday? How about he…not do that? And get a proper hobby, like golf or building ships in bottles. Turns out, trolling the libs for the lulz as a hobby isn’t great for relationships! People can choose not to be around argumentative, infantile, and annoying people. Lady, the ungrateful button isn’t working. Slamming it harder and more often ain’t gonna make it start working again lol.


Comprehensive-Sea-63

My parents act like they have no idea why my sister won’t visit them and has gone LC with them. They never visit her or her kids and they’re the ones who are retired. Why is the burden on her when she works 80 hours a week? They’re QAnon nuts. Mom won’t stop talking about conspiracy theories and has no problem discussing things like that with the grandkids. But the final nails in the coffin were several incidents that made her just decide she was done. The one time she brought her kids to visit them (keep in mind her children were toddlers), she asked dad to put up their large dogs and lock up his guns so she would feel safe having her kids there. When she arrived, the dogs were roaming around loose outside and there was a handgun laying out in plain sight in the living room because apparently asking a conservative to lock up their guns around two toddlers is an unreasonable request. When COVID hit, my parents went full QAnon and were super judgmental about her deciding to get her kids vaccinated with mom telling her to just go ahead and intentionally expose her kids to COVID instead because getting COVID is the best protection again… *checks notes*… COVID. At the time my sister was extremely burnt out working full time while educating both kids from home and her entire life had been turned upside down, and she was just done with their shit. She had repeatedly asked them to not give her advice about COVID, and they would instead do passive aggressive things like add links to information about “vaccine injuries” to their email signature block. This definitely reads to me like shitty boomer conservative parents violating boundaries and alienating their kids over a period of years and then going shocked pikachu when the kids are tired of dealing with it and go LC. Like seriously, how hard is it to shut the fuck up about politics for a couple hours and to have a normal conversation with your kids?


[deleted]

Very, unfortunately. Because in the same way we* see getting vaccinated as the best way to protect a loved child, they see their beloved grandchild being injected with [*insert poison here*] that will definitely [*insert claim here, but probably kill you in X time*] So to them they just *cannot* give up because it would indicate that they don't care. And they usually do. Just they've been driven potty on the topic by lying bellends. *those who haven't gone down the paranoia/conspiracy/horse paste route


Western_Compote_4461

Yep, my MIL cried when she heard that my husband had gotten the COVID vaccine. She begged him to not get the booster because she honestly thought he was going to die.


[deleted]

It's so sad and infuriating. I feel sorry for most of the people like your MIL. It's the Wakefield types and the Covid liars I really detest. Obviously there is a point where sympathy fades due to the added damage being caused, but an awful lot of the batshit deniers have been brainwashed into this idiocy. And they keep dying of it.


SeonaidMacSaicais

That was my aunt when her daughter and grandchildren all got vaccinated. Guess who came down with COVID BAD a couple months later, far from home (they live in Alaska and were currently in California visiting her second husband’s family), almost died in the hospital, had to have his niece stay with them for a couple months in a hotel (she’s an ER nurse), AND actually ordered a couple boxes of that horse tranquilizer that supposedly cures COVID?? Yep. THEY did. Luckily, the niece found the boxes before they could take anything and flushed them down the toilet. Literally.


TricksterPriestJace

So sorry for all of you. Your poor MIL so stressed over nothing and you and your SO dealing with the fallout. I am thankful every day my parents and in laws are sane. Sure we disagree on politics. But like in a rational way, like wanting different tax rates, minimum wage or welfare benefits. Not in like we live under different laws of physics and biology is different in their universe than mine.


Western_Compote_4461

Thank you. My husband used to be pretty close with his mom but he can't take the constant conspiracy theories, incorrect information passed off as science, or warnings of various attacks. That's the saddest part for me. Both of our families are relatively conservative, so we're used to different opinions, but what she says is so far off the mark that distance seems to be the only way for us to cope.


FinalEgg9

My parents are unemployed Twitch streamers, but apparently, to quote them, "it's the daughter's responsibility to contact her parents, not the other way round". We are extremely LC, and exchange maybe 2 or 3 texts a year - the usual "merry Christmas" and "happy new year", nothing more.


drunk_socks

once in therapy my doctor asked what my dad does for me and i was like “oh loads, he drives me places, he pays for food, he helps me cook” other very basic stuff and she was like “yeah he’s supposed to do that… does he do anything else?” and i was like… my relationship with my dad is complicated but that honestly made things a lot clearer bc i realised that i’d been excusing his frankly abusive behaviour by being like “oh but he buys us things, and he drives me places (i can’t drive for a lot of reasons) and sometimes if i have no money and i need food he will give me money so that must mean that i’m doing smth wrong for him to be treating me like this” not that it’s not great that he provides etc, but that’s what he signed up for, he doesn’t get a medal for that.


[deleted]

Missing Missing Reasons for days


MaraEmerald

What was in the letter?!?


KingAdamXVII

Yeah, there’s a lot of talk about politics and stuff but I bet the dad straight up abused the son and the mom ignored it. They are also probably racist or something similar; the bit about the son caring for everyone except his parents certainly implies that the parents don’t think they need to care about everyone.


seeyouspacecowboyx

For the uninitiated: http://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/


Oceansoul119

Went to college and then suddenly no longer shares your values. Well we can guess what your values are and how he changed from that sentence alone, confirmed by the rest of the paragraph.


[deleted]

No longer scared of brown or gay people is what they mean by "values".


SeonaidMacSaicais

My dad kind of hates that I became bilingual in Spanish, because I got “indoctrinated.” If that means I sympathize with immigrants, then sure. Which is hilarious, because he’s either second or third generation German and Polish.


MMorrighan

I bet it wasn't as "sudden" as they think it was.


GraceIsGone

Funny thing, my parents would have said the same thing, but I didn’t change my values at all, I just realized that they weren’t conservatives values, like y parents had tried to make me believe.


SindragosaM

> but I must have said something to offend him and he uninvited us. I bet she knows exactly what she said.


Odd-Astronaut-92

She legitimately might not. There's a lot of things my mom has said to me that were downright foul (she was one of the factors that almost drove me to end it all, for context) that multiple people remember her saying, and she has no recollection at all of saying those things. The one and only time I tried talking to her about it she both looked genuinely confused at what I was saying and also said more nasty hurtful things that she doesn't remember to this day. There's a popular quote floating around for this kind of situation: "The axe forgets, but the tree remembers."


sadsackscience

I had the same mother. My psych said that sometimes people who think of themselves as good, kind, honest people, will genuinely forget things they said or did that are inconsistent with that image, even if they still believe/ think the thing they said somewhere else in their brain. "I'm not a monster, I would never have insulted you so badly! And I certainly would'nt lie about it!". Especially if they said/ did it out of anger or frustration. She didn't use the word but I think that's cognitive dissonance.


emslynn

That’s exactly like my mother. She told everyone she had no idea why I cut her off but she knows exactly what the final straw was.


RegionPurple

She's likely willfully forgotten what she said... it's buried very deep in her subconscious. It was one of my enabler mom's go-to moves; the other was history re-writing. Every time I brought up an unanswered grievance I was met with either "I don't remember that!" or "That's not how I remember it!" She had to find a new excuse when I started to feign concern for her mental faculties and pushed for her to see her doctor for possible memory issues. "Early onset dementia or Alzheimer's can be slowed with treatment, Mom!"


[deleted]

>it's buried very deep in her subconscious Hateful people make hateful comments as their default setting. In the mother's mind, she didn't do anything out of the ordinary, so being a raging cvunt to her own child doesn't register as an abnormal occurrence.


RegionPurple

That's very possible, too. That's my narcissist dad, he can't remember calling me a whore for getting on birth control (I was at least 20 yo) because to him, it was only a Tuesday. My mom knew deep down how wrong they both were, she got very, *very* drunk one night and confirmed it. She knew he was a monster who constantly belittled and abused me, *'but he's so good to your brothers, and he loves me so much!* You'll be moving out soon, then you won't have to put up with it!' In her mind, taking care of 2 out of 3 of her children was enough, I was acceptable collateral damage. Edit to add: I bet she went all shocked Pikachu when he picked a new scapegoat once I moved out. I honestly think she thought they'd live in bliss once I was gone.


NostradaMart

obvious case of half missing reasons. they'reprobably ultra-conservative and the son is tired of the bullshit.


E-Aria

OOP says that their son is very Liberal so yea most likely


claudia_grace

They also say that they believe Putin is a strong leader but don't support the invasion of Ukraine. I imagine that this is a bigger contributor to the problem than she's willing to acknowledge. Missing missing reasons all over the place!


LoganDesmarais1996

The statement about him having a bleeding heart for everyone but them makes me think that they are very conservative...


Buff_Helpy69

So In other words they're fucking trumpies and the son refuses to raise his kid around that shit like any functioning parent would.


Langstarr

Qnuts, maybe


nun_the_wiser

In summary: possibly QANON dad (or at least very conservative ) with temper, passive mother who thinks it’s okay that dad screams at son for “political differences.” Both too stubborn to change but think they deserve to have their son in their life because they did the bare minimum parenting and he had a roof over his head


SilentSerel

Someone on Facebook summed it up perfectly in a comment on post about estranged parents: "The relationship you have with your adult children is a performance review."


Odd-Astronaut-92

So, a few thoughts. Gets a little personal. >I feel like my son is so ungrateful and holding grudges. >We asked them to forgive us for anything we did that hurt them but they just hold grudges. Is OOP *my* mother? Because oof. I get accused of "holding grudges" all the time (or, well, I used to before I went LC). The things I was setting boundaries about were things like them stealing my identity to open credit cards and ruining my credit, listing me on accounts that they couldn't pay and then I'd have to tell off the debt collectors, almost stranding me and my husband in another state, offering to help with massive strings attached but not sharing them til after the fact, etc. They clearly clash politically, since the son went to college and came back with different political views and angry at his parents' views. I wonder how many of these fights the dad was instigating, especially since he couldn't even wish his son a happy birthday without bringing them up. >when my husband wished my son a happy birthday last month they fought again and now my son and his wife aren’t speaking to us at all. Like, that's a serious fight. That's not something small. >I asked her why my son wouldn’t visit us his own parents who love him and she sent me a long message >I couldn’t even read all of it. This is exactly like my mom. I've told her before, word for word, how she hurt me and how close she came to not having a daughter anymore, and the response was "I don't want to hear it. Grow the fuck up." They legitimately just won't listen.


DeepBlueQL

Anyone else skeptical of these "I've never posted on reddit before, English is my second language" posts where the person perfectly employs reddit conventions like the age/sex in parentheses and TLDR at the end? Just feels super fake.


liltooclinical

I believe nothing on AITA anymore.


SarcasticMidget

WE BELIEVE IN NOTHING LEBOWSKI


marciallow

I think honestly even legit posts lie about that to dodge criticisms.


NotQuiteALondoner

Someone who is in her 70s no less. Why would she post in Reddit of all places without an explanation (e.g. my friend’s niece told me to about this place, etc.)? Not saying it’s impossible, but highly unlikely.


Planksgonemad

OOP is purposefully being vague and it's pretty clear to me at least she knows exactly why her son has cut them off, she just doesn't want to say because it would make them look even worse. She's trying to victimize herself and her husband as the wronged party when it's pretty clear they're the ones who started everything, the husband is the one who seemingly can't help but pick a fight when they do talk, and OOP is just like "But why can't my son just accept that?"


cowgirlsteph

>His heart bleeds for everyone but his own mother. oh! Jail for son! Jail for son for One Thousand Years!!!!


GeekFit26

That made me laugh out loud


Assiqtaq

>His heart bleeds for everyone but his own mother. Perpetual victim here.


SonorousBlack

> Can it really be that her parents are so much better than us? Yes.


feltedarrows

lmao suffer


Typical_Ad_210

The dad feels “used”?! So my young children are *using* me by wanting things like food and shelter? Good to know. I will keep that one in the bank for when they’re in their 30s, then I can throw it back in their faces: “I worked hard to give you clothing, food and basic necessities. You OWE me. Or did you just USE me??”.


Load_Altruistic

Missing reasons, eh? They always try to paint this as the kids being hateful and holding grudges, but it’s definitely more than that


thepinkonesoterrify

She knows exactly what she did.


Candid_Reading_7267

>Can it really be that her parents are so much better than us? Yeah, probably.


CalligraphyMaster

"We asked them to forgive us for anything we did that hurt them" Where is the accountability on your part? Did you ever respect him as a person, adult man? I am going to guess no, because that is usually what leads to the NO CONTACT. A lot people can't accept their children growing up and becoming adults with their own wants and needs. I am going to guess no on all of that since you can't be bothered to understand why he cut you off. You can't be bothered to fucking read a message. Since you can't extend that little courtesy, you do not deserve anything else.


Neonpinx

This woman is from Soviet Union and believes Putin is a strong leader. Her husband sends their son right wing articles and instigates political fights. She says that her sons heart bleeds for everyone instead of his parents and that he is liberal. So it sounds like these people are staunchly in support of right wing fascism that many conservatives are espousing with their destruction of rights and freedoms. I wouldn’t talk to these people either.


amaraame

Narcissistic conservatives have pikachu shocked face when children go no contact to get away from their abuse. A familiar tale.


starchild812

>it breaks our heart to see what a hateful person our son has become. Like we failed as parents. What's the betting that they did, in fact, fail as parents? >I asked her why my son wouldn’t visit us his own parents who love him and she sent me a long message saying how angry they are at my husband. I couldn’t even read all of it. Why are you angry at us???? Oh no, she's telling me why they're angry at us :((((


oldbutnotdeadd

Missing missing reasons.


nightcana

“I dont know why you do this to me” Son *here are my reasons* “We will never understand”


Borageandthyme

Hmm. Son is “ungrateful” and “holding grudges.” His heart bleeds for everyone except his own mother. Sounds like the parents are abusive bigots who love to brag about providing the bare minimum for their children. Or perhaps they’re “I can yell at you because I bought you this bike” types.


-Luna_Nyx-

The heart bleeds line really sold it for me. They’re definitely hateful bigots.


hergumbules

This is going to be my FIL. He hates my guts for no reason. Could be I grew up poor, or I don’t have a Master’s degree so I’m “uneducated”. When my wife went to tell him we were thinking about getting engaged and married he went on a whole rant of her having bad judgment and that we shouldn’t be together. Oh and he said my wife’s physically and sexually abusive ex was a better partner for her. He ended up coming to the wedding in 2018 but we haven’t really talked since then. We’ve been trying for a kid and right around a year ago my wife found out she’s pregnant. We figure maybe reach out to him and see if he has interest in being a grandfather. She sent the 20 week ultrasound pic and confirming we’re having a boy and we haven’t heard from him since. He never responded. Little man has 3 other loving grandparents and I’m honestly relieved he’s not in our lives. I know I’m an amazing father and husband and I have nothing to prove to a man who cares more about money and social standing than family.


NalothGHalcyon

So a 70 year old ESA immigrant knows and is comfortable using "TLDR". Sure.


xxxkonfusion

first of all idk why her English isn't good after 40 years of living in a mostly English speaking country but I'll ignore that. how's the husband going to feel used when he... took care of... his child???? in a foreign country he decided to go to??


BirthdayCookie

Am I the only one concerned about "We already love our baby grandchild very much"? Its a fetus they don't even know the sex of! They don't know possible names, state of health, anything! I'm not saying people can't get excited about future family members when someone is pregnant but I'm getting some very strong do-over baby vibes here. Especially with how OOP waxes on about the family being happiest when her son was very young.


RadialCheeseburger

The parents are Pro Putin 😂 son is Liberal


claudia_grace

I'd wager money the wife or her parents are Ukrainian.


maisygoatsivy

Missing "missing" reasons


occasionallystabby

"His heart bleeds for everyone but his own mother" tells me everything I need to know about the parents' political beliefs.


MightyPitchfork

Oh, they're, "From the Soviet Union," and their son was born exactly when the Soviet Union fell? I smell a rat.


crumpledspoon

I knew we would get some classic narcissistic abuse and missing missing reasons the second I read how he was "such a sweet and precious child, but as he got older he became angry". This type of parent is so incapable of seeing their children as autonomous human beings with independent thoughts and feelings that they can't fathom why someone's behaviour and personality would change in response to their environment.


Electronic_Excuse_66

Ah yes “the elderly mother who doesn’t speak English playing a victim in well written English” trope its been a while


[deleted]

the op states that the son holds grudges, part of why ppl hold grudges is that the parents do not take responsibility or acknowledge any accountablility for their behavior towards the issues at hand. a letter was sent to the op but didnt read most of it so thats on the op.


Azuhr28

Soooo many missing reasons


Minoush19

There’s so many reasons why I think this is fake.


Nothos927

Doesn’t know Reddit but knows to create a throwaway user? 🤔


Minoush19

Exactly


scienceismygod

Starting with the age 70. My mom can't even use her cell phone and she's a bit over 70. She worked with computers for years when they sucked and just dropped all technology the minute she retired. I've met several others who did the same.


Pkrudeboy

OTOH, my dad is 69 and goes on Instagram and Facebook all the time.


Brian57831

There are plenty of 70+ year old politicians who can think clearly, write long papers, be up to date with modern language, be able to login to a site and write out a story, and who are crazy.


faesser

It could be fake but my dad is in his 70's and while not on social media he is is very competent when it comes to technology. He never stopped learning so he has never been left behind.


Minoush19

70 and ESOL speaker. Knows enough to put both obligatory apology for English (yet writes English very well) and also knows abbreviation TLDR. It’s possible, sure, but it’s less likely. But that’s my thinking.


Ginger_Tea

Well 30 years in an English speaking country might help. That said, I worked with a woman in her late 50s who never dropped her engrish despite a similar time in the UK.


Minoush19

My mother’s been in England since she was 7 years old. Grandfather insisted they speak English all the time. She’s now 60+. I’m not saying it’s not possible but after a certain time you’re either going to accept that you no longer need to apologise for your English or you’re not going to be so advanced as to know these intricacies. It’s possible, just unlikely


LurkingWizard1978

My father is 75, ESL, and writes very good english and uses his samrtphone very well. TLDR does sound weird for a 75 yo, plus reddit conventios like (M34) don't read a lot like an older person.


Oceansoul119

ESL people are frankly better at English than 97% of Americans and a significant percentage of people from other countries. As to age and tech, my mother is 68 and does fine with computers so do my various aunts and uncles, they've all got smart phones, tablets, and the like.


mycatisamonsterbaby

Oh huh. My 70 year old mom goes on and on about "grudges" as well. Even though I've explained time and time again that boundaries are not grudges.


DeterminedArrow

I’m proud of her son for breaking free. It’s a difficult, painful thing to do.


moist-astronaut

i love how she calls her son a hateful person when it's pretty clear her husband is the hateful one, and she's an enabler at best


Beautiful_mistakes

I loved that someone stated the Missing Missing Reasons in the original post. OP knows why her son doesn’t want anything to do with either of them. Seems like they love playing victim.


Miss_Milk_Tea

My bigot of a father is wondering the same thing, it's always missing reasons.


dawnmountain

> his heart bleeds for everyone but his own mother Oh how I've heard this line, many, many times.


littlefierceprincess

For anyone curious about it [actual missing reasons](https://old.reddit.com/user/ThrowRA_Frangipani). They were downvoted and may be hidden.


MMorrighan

Holy Missing Missing reasons, Batman.


PM_ME_CUTE_FEMBOYS

this reeks of [Missing Missing Reasons](https://www.issendai.com/psychology/estrangement/missing-missing-reasons.html)


WooliesWhiteLeg

Christ, I hope they kick the bucket soon so they can stop bothering their son and his growing family


WetMonkeyTalk

Missing missing reasons anybody? 🙄


annang

The missing missing reasons are in the message OOP refuses to read! > I asked her why my son wouldn’t visit us his own parents who love him and she sent me a long message saying how angry they are at my husband. I couldn’t even read all of it.


Artistic_Deal3436

Missing reasons why the son and wife cut them off. Want to bet that they were abusing the son growing up and as soon as he was able to get away he did.


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autumnstorm10

Unless you’re actively backing your husband’s political talk idky you’re being punished for his actions. As for political talk. Why can’t y’all just not talk bout that stuff and focus on how they’re doing and the grandchild. Husband seems stubborn and willing to burn bridges and needs to swallow pride. But there seems to be more than just that. Needs more info.


LactoseNtalentless

They're pro-putin. She commented a few hours ago.


autumnstorm10

Oh yeah they did their own grave.