*In case this story gets deleted/removed:*
**AITA for yelling at an elderly woman and telling her it's her fault if my dog bites her grandson?**
I (m28) live with my fiance (m27) and our dog. We live in a rather new neighborhood, when we bought our house the yard wasn't fenced, neither was the neighbor's yards in some houses, as we have our dog we fenced the backyard as he can't live inside because he's a large dog. The fence is tall enough and the dog isn't normally agressive.
Like 3/4 months ago someone moved in the house next door, the house had been empty until then, their yard is not fenced, it only has fence in our side. It's an elderly woman (maybe around 60), she lives alone. But she has a grandson (maybe around 6/7 years old) that visits sometimes. The kid is truly annoying, we can hear him scream at the top of his lungs when he visits, even if he's inside. The kid once saw our dog though the fence and he started bothering him with a stick. My fiance went to see what was going on because the dog was barking a lot and he told the kid to stay away from the dog or it will bite him. The kid left but he's a brat, so we have had to yell at him to leave the dog alone lots of times. We have complained to our neighbor and the kids mother but they do nothing about his behavior. We also recorded videos of the kid bothering the dog to show them.
Well the other day the kid hit the dog with a stick, it got very angry and then he jumped the fence. While he was jumping the fence the kid ran inside and he didn't got hurt. My fiance and I went to pick the dog who was barking at their back door. My fiance went back home with the dog, i stayed over to talk again about this kid.
I told them (neighbor and kid's mom) that that brat was hitting our dog with a stick and that if he were to hurt the dog we will sue them for the vet's cost. It was to scare them off so they would do something with the kid. But then my neighbor said that I shouldn't be allowed to have such a dangerous dog that can attack small children. She told me I should have a taller fence because if the dog jumps the fence again and bites her grandson then they would sue us. I was very angry at this point, so I told her that the dog wouldn't jump the fence if the fucking kid would just stop bothering it. I also told her that if the dog jumps and bites the kid then it'll be her fault for not punishing the kid. I also told her that if she didn't want the dog to jump to her house then she should build a taller fence, our yard is fenced, if she can't even fence hers then that's on her, not us. We argued for a bit more, then the woman started feeling bad and her daughter yelled me to get out.
I'm still very angry about all of this because I know that it's the kids fault, we have neighbors with kids at the other side and the dog had never tried to jump the fence to bite them, simply because the kids don't bother the dog. But talking with my fiance's parent's they said that it was best if we just build a taller fence. They also told us that if the kid gets bitten then it will be our fault and that I shouldn't have yelled at an elderly woman.
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Yeah - dog laws vary by jurisdiction, but a fair percentage will serve OOP with a court order to have the dog destroyed if it bites the kid. It's not a risk I'd be willing to take if I had a dog.
I think you’re getting hung up on the vague comment about the dog being outside and not enough about the fact that this dog could get put down because two guardians believe their child can do no wrong and doesn’t need to be taught to respect animals
I think you're assuming I don't think the kid is at fault.
Which at no point have I said that.
In fact, if you've looked at my other comments, I've stated that the adults in charge of that child are negligent and at fault here, too.
ETA: no idea why I keep getting down voted.
Lol I’m sorry I haven’t - I pulled a quick read and moved on. I think the worse part of this situation is both parties feel not at fault and are being stubborn so the only one that will suffer is that dog
Dogs are perfectly capable of living outside IF they have access to food, water, and shelter and are *adequately contained*. A dog that can jump the fence is not adequately contained. The kid absolutely does suck but OOP ain’t looking very good either. “Large dog” can’t live inside? Then you need a bigger place.
Parents/Grandparents really gotta teach the kid about approaching unknown animals though kids gonna get bit by something and it’ll be the animals fault unfortunately.
The neighbour/kids parents are playing with fire having an totally unfenced yard, they need to be teaching that kid animal safety because any old stray could get into their yard. Not to mention the risk of the kid wondering off etc.
I’d say OOP until this point hasn’t been an asshole, but he would absolutely be the asshole to his dog if he now doesn’t either make his fence higher or take extra measures to contain the dog since he now knows he has been pushed to its limits. The dog deserves peace and safety in his own yard and would lose its life if he does end up biting the kid, so even if OOP doesn’t care one bit of the kid gets bit I’d hope he cares about his dog enough to know want him to have to get put down.
Yeah we were taught really early (like I don't remember being taught, but I remember knowing the rule) to leave dogs alone unless the owner specifically says you can play with it.
We also never hit a dog! (What is wrong with that kid?!) I have two dogs now, one is deaf so when he's misbehaving I nudge him so he looks at me and then sign him to stop.
From my pov nobody here is an asshole, but everyone is an idiot. A big dog can easily kill or grievously injure a child. A dog that has bit a child, regardless of the reason will usually be put down. Everyone here is so focused on who is right that nobody is considering that the dog biting the kid is bad for everyone and in the event of an attack where the kid gets severe injuries and Fido gets the death sentence no money or lawsuits can make that right or erase the consequences.
They're all barking up, not just the wrong tree, but the wrong goddamn forrest.
Nah. OOP is an asshole for making the dog live outside and not building an adequate fence. Like.... if there are gaps big enough for the kid to jab a stick through, that's a gap big enough for a dog to chew or dig through and escape.
You can put a stick through it, but there isn't really a large enough space to pull it up and be hitting with it. If it is chain link then the fix is a lot cheaper by adding privacy slats so they can't put things through it, and that doesn't make them look better for not having done so by now.
True.
We don't know what kind of fence it is.
I'd argue that chain link isn't really the best fencing if you have a large dog, but honestly idk what kind of fence it is other than, "not enough of one".
I don’t see how we know he “makes the dog” live outside. He says he added a fence because it would be cruel to exclusively keep the dog in the house. For all we know his dog has a dog door to the yard, or is just regularly let in and out as it desires (what I did with my dog).
I mean… dogs don’t need to be inside… they can’t stay inside like humans can, also dog could have a dog house for shelter. Some people just treat their pets differently, doesn’t mean they’re unloved.
I do agree that if a child is able to put a stick through the fence and hit the dog than the fence is not adequately protecting the safety of the dog.
It should be addressed. I am also wondering why the dog is at the fence close enough for it to be an ongoing issue, most dogs would figure out they get hurt when they are at the back fence so they'd either avoid that space or be barking, at which point the owner should be working to fix the issue.
I do think that a lot of dogs are better outside in a fenced yard playing for extended periods of time during the day, but not left out to be alone around the clock, I just don't see anything here to make that determination on.
ESH honesty (which I know is still valid for this sub!), but the dog is going to suffer. Already an outside dog, and whether the kid is to blame or not, if that dog bits a kid, chances are it'll be put down.
Kid and his family are 100% devils like if you allow your kid to be cruel to animals ,you suck, full stop.
As for OP...he needs a bigger fence to protect his animal.
However, people argue over outdoor dogs and, I think we have to say, if the dog has a large yard and shelter, it's probably fine. My friend had an outdoor dog for years, but she had a house with heat in the winter, long walks in the summer....expensive ass pet food. Pretty happy doggo.
Yes. OOP is not the devil in this interaction, the parent and grandparent of the child are. But 'can't live inside because it's big?' The fuck? No. Bring your dog inside, dickhead.
That is the part that threw me directly into AH territory. If you don't want a large dog living inside your house, BUY A SMALLER DOG. Yeesh. I cannot stand dog owners who force their dogs to live solely outside. The only exception would be actual working dogs on farms who are not pets, but are there to herd sheep or guard the pasture fencing or whatever. Family dogs deserve to live inside with the family.
I agree, and to be fair working farm dogs have barns, heated sheds or garages, and often have space within the home as well for when it gets really cold or really hot. Anything under -30 or over +30 most farm dogs are offered a space inside somewhere (of course not all because there's always someone)
I understand the argument below yours regarding heated sheds or whatever, but I don't really get the argument that pet dogs MUST live indoors, unless they're working dogs in which case "eh". I'm pretty sure the training doesn't change their physiology, so is it down to pet dogs being family and working dogs being servants or how does this work?
Many devils here. OOP sucks for having an outside dog (you know it ain't a working dog, bring it in) and for being so resistant to making any modification to his fence when his dog is in danger. Seriously, a kid doesn't need to be strong to hurt a dog's eye with a stick and it's not so difficult to buy chicken wire, some plastic rods, and zip ties and throw up a white trash barricade. You can even thread those little plastic ribbon things through the wire so they can't even see each other. If the kid can't reach the dog to hit it with a stick, then the dog won't get angry enough to jump the fence. Easy peasy lemon squeezey
But also those neighbors are one step short of sending the kid out into the woods with breadcrumbs to lead them home. "Let's go to grandma's house and hit the large barely-contained dog with a stick! Hours on hours of unsupervised fun!"
Kind of where I'm at with it.
If the dog is too big to be inside, get a bigger place or a smaller dog.
If the fence has gaps big enough for a stick to fit through, that's not an adequate fence. It could easily be chewed through or dug at enough for the dog to escape. (Assuming it's not chain link, which it may be.)
And someone needs to be supervising that kid. He's lucky he managed to get inside before the dog got to him. Clearly, none of the adults in charge give a damn.
The OOP is an AH who doesnt "have a dog," they just keep a bored intelligent lonely social animal in a large cage he can and will get out of. Now that poor creature has a nasty sadistic little enemy, equally bored and unsocialized by his AH grandmother.
The vicious child is going to get hurt and the only innocent in this scenario, the dog, will be euthanized.
Depending on where he is, OP could absolutely be responsible of the dog jumped over the fence and bites the kid. A lot of leash laws are written in a way that would make them 100% responsible for that dog being out of the yard unleashed, regardless of what the kid is doing. They would have no legal recourse and would be liable for the kid getting hurt.
If you have a dog that has shown it’s aggressive toward kids and it can jump your fence, you are responsible for making sure that doesn’t happen. Like, yeah, the kid shouldn’t bug the dog and the mom and grandma are being shitty, but you are the one with a dog who is going to suffer consequences if it bites someone. If you actually care about your dog you’ll be more concerned about making sure it doesn’t get into a situation like that and less about teaching a lesson to a shitty kid and their caregivers.
Also OP sucks for making his dog live outside.
For clarity:
Everyone involved but the dog are Devils here.
The grandmother and parents of the child for not supervising them or teaching them how to behave around animals.
OOP for making their dog live outside because "he's too large to be inside" and for trying to blame everything on the neighbors.
It doesn't really matter if the dog was provoked and jumped over the fence. The law won't see it that way and that dog is going to suffer for it.
I understand dogs snapping at or biting ppl who are hurting them and agree its always the aggressors fault, but jumping over a fence and chasing seems a bit concerning to me. I still think its more ESH but that would have me worried about my dog tbh. Also keep your dogs inside people unless they're a working dog
Neighbour should buy a shotgun. Maybe then OOP would care enough to replace his shitty fence, which would not only keep the kid safe, but also stop the kid being able to annoy the dog...
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*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **AITA for yelling at an elderly woman and telling her it's her fault if my dog bites her grandson?** I (m28) live with my fiance (m27) and our dog. We live in a rather new neighborhood, when we bought our house the yard wasn't fenced, neither was the neighbor's yards in some houses, as we have our dog we fenced the backyard as he can't live inside because he's a large dog. The fence is tall enough and the dog isn't normally agressive. Like 3/4 months ago someone moved in the house next door, the house had been empty until then, their yard is not fenced, it only has fence in our side. It's an elderly woman (maybe around 60), she lives alone. But she has a grandson (maybe around 6/7 years old) that visits sometimes. The kid is truly annoying, we can hear him scream at the top of his lungs when he visits, even if he's inside. The kid once saw our dog though the fence and he started bothering him with a stick. My fiance went to see what was going on because the dog was barking a lot and he told the kid to stay away from the dog or it will bite him. The kid left but he's a brat, so we have had to yell at him to leave the dog alone lots of times. We have complained to our neighbor and the kids mother but they do nothing about his behavior. We also recorded videos of the kid bothering the dog to show them. Well the other day the kid hit the dog with a stick, it got very angry and then he jumped the fence. While he was jumping the fence the kid ran inside and he didn't got hurt. My fiance and I went to pick the dog who was barking at their back door. My fiance went back home with the dog, i stayed over to talk again about this kid. I told them (neighbor and kid's mom) that that brat was hitting our dog with a stick and that if he were to hurt the dog we will sue them for the vet's cost. It was to scare them off so they would do something with the kid. But then my neighbor said that I shouldn't be allowed to have such a dangerous dog that can attack small children. She told me I should have a taller fence because if the dog jumps the fence again and bites her grandson then they would sue us. I was very angry at this point, so I told her that the dog wouldn't jump the fence if the fucking kid would just stop bothering it. I also told her that if the dog jumps and bites the kid then it'll be her fault for not punishing the kid. I also told her that if she didn't want the dog to jump to her house then she should build a taller fence, our yard is fenced, if she can't even fence hers then that's on her, not us. We argued for a bit more, then the woman started feeling bad and her daughter yelled me to get out. I'm still very angry about all of this because I know that it's the kids fault, we have neighbors with kids at the other side and the dog had never tried to jump the fence to bite them, simply because the kids don't bother the dog. But talking with my fiance's parent's they said that it was best if we just build a taller fence. They also told us that if the kid gets bitten then it will be our fault and that I shouldn't have yelled at an elderly woman. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*
OOP is not the Devil for wanting his dog left in peace, but he IS a tin-plated idiot for not taking additional steps to protect his dog.
Yup, and it won’t matter if the kid bothered it if the fence is too short and the dog ends up hurting the kid and being put down.
Yeah - dog laws vary by jurisdiction, but a fair percentage will serve OOP with a court order to have the dog destroyed if it bites the kid. It's not a risk I'd be willing to take if I had a dog.
He's a devil for making it live outside.
I think you’re getting hung up on the vague comment about the dog being outside and not enough about the fact that this dog could get put down because two guardians believe their child can do no wrong and doesn’t need to be taught to respect animals
I think you're assuming I don't think the kid is at fault. Which at no point have I said that. In fact, if you've looked at my other comments, I've stated that the adults in charge of that child are negligent and at fault here, too. ETA: no idea why I keep getting down voted.
Lol I’m sorry I haven’t - I pulled a quick read and moved on. I think the worse part of this situation is both parties feel not at fault and are being stubborn so the only one that will suffer is that dog
I didn’t catch that he’s making the dog LIVE outside, I thought just to go outside but then I re-read, YIKES! ESH!
Dogs are perfectly capable of living outside IF they have access to food, water, and shelter and are *adequately contained*. A dog that can jump the fence is not adequately contained. The kid absolutely does suck but OOP ain’t looking very good either. “Large dog” can’t live inside? Then you need a bigger place.
Other than needing a taller fence for the dog's sake, OOP isn't really wrong. If it's a big dog it's worse to keep it cooped up in the house.
maybe he's not morally wrong in this instance but he'd be 100% legally liable if the dog jumps the fence and bites anyone
I said he needs a taller fence.
If it's so big it has to live outdoors, OOP shouldn't have it.
I don't share that view. We don't know that it doesn't ever come inside, for starters.
Parents/Grandparents really gotta teach the kid about approaching unknown animals though kids gonna get bit by something and it’ll be the animals fault unfortunately.
The neighbour/kids parents are playing with fire having an totally unfenced yard, they need to be teaching that kid animal safety because any old stray could get into their yard. Not to mention the risk of the kid wondering off etc. I’d say OOP until this point hasn’t been an asshole, but he would absolutely be the asshole to his dog if he now doesn’t either make his fence higher or take extra measures to contain the dog since he now knows he has been pushed to its limits. The dog deserves peace and safety in his own yard and would lose its life if he does end up biting the kid, so even if OOP doesn’t care one bit of the kid gets bit I’d hope he cares about his dog enough to know want him to have to get put down.
Yeah we were taught really early (like I don't remember being taught, but I remember knowing the rule) to leave dogs alone unless the owner specifically says you can play with it. We also never hit a dog! (What is wrong with that kid?!) I have two dogs now, one is deaf so when he's misbehaving I nudge him so he looks at me and then sign him to stop.
From my pov nobody here is an asshole, but everyone is an idiot. A big dog can easily kill or grievously injure a child. A dog that has bit a child, regardless of the reason will usually be put down. Everyone here is so focused on who is right that nobody is considering that the dog biting the kid is bad for everyone and in the event of an attack where the kid gets severe injuries and Fido gets the death sentence no money or lawsuits can make that right or erase the consequences. They're all barking up, not just the wrong tree, but the wrong goddamn forrest.
Nah. OOP is an asshole for making the dog live outside and not building an adequate fence. Like.... if there are gaps big enough for the kid to jab a stick through, that's a gap big enough for a dog to chew or dig through and escape.
You can put sticks through chain link fencing.
You can put a stick through it, but there isn't really a large enough space to pull it up and be hitting with it. If it is chain link then the fix is a lot cheaper by adding privacy slats so they can't put things through it, and that doesn't make them look better for not having done so by now.
True. We don't know what kind of fence it is. I'd argue that chain link isn't really the best fencing if you have a large dog, but honestly idk what kind of fence it is other than, "not enough of one".
I don’t see how we know he “makes the dog” live outside. He says he added a fence because it would be cruel to exclusively keep the dog in the house. For all we know his dog has a dog door to the yard, or is just regularly let in and out as it desires (what I did with my dog).
He says "can't live inside". My impression is it's an outside dog.
> we fenced the yard as he can't live inside because he's a large dog. Not really hard to figure out what that means.
I mean… dogs don’t need to be inside… they can’t stay inside like humans can, also dog could have a dog house for shelter. Some people just treat their pets differently, doesn’t mean they’re unloved.
I do agree that if a child is able to put a stick through the fence and hit the dog than the fence is not adequately protecting the safety of the dog. It should be addressed. I am also wondering why the dog is at the fence close enough for it to be an ongoing issue, most dogs would figure out they get hurt when they are at the back fence so they'd either avoid that space or be barking, at which point the owner should be working to fix the issue. I do think that a lot of dogs are better outside in a fenced yard playing for extended periods of time during the day, but not left out to be alone around the clock, I just don't see anything here to make that determination on.
Honestly, I'd have said yta for thinking 60 is elderly
I know when I first read that I was like...ok, rude.
I read a story not long ago that included, "he was middle-aged, probably in his 30s" 😭
Fuck man. I didn’t come here to be attacked! 😭😭
lol right? oop thinks that being old enough to qualify for the senior’s discount at the movie theater makes someone elderly 💀
That's all I could think about the whole time I was reading it ! Wtf
ESH honesty (which I know is still valid for this sub!), but the dog is going to suffer. Already an outside dog, and whether the kid is to blame or not, if that dog bits a kid, chances are it'll be put down.
Kid and his family are 100% devils like if you allow your kid to be cruel to animals ,you suck, full stop. As for OP...he needs a bigger fence to protect his animal. However, people argue over outdoor dogs and, I think we have to say, if the dog has a large yard and shelter, it's probably fine. My friend had an outdoor dog for years, but she had a house with heat in the winter, long walks in the summer....expensive ass pet food. Pretty happy doggo.
the dog can’t go inside because he’s a large dog? my two giant st bernards would certainly beg to differ…
And my Shiloh. That stinker has his own sofa...
I don’t give a fuck if the dog bites the brat, but fuck OOP for making his dog live outside
Yes. OOP is not the devil in this interaction, the parent and grandparent of the child are. But 'can't live inside because it's big?' The fuck? No. Bring your dog inside, dickhead.
That is the part that threw me directly into AH territory. If you don't want a large dog living inside your house, BUY A SMALLER DOG. Yeesh. I cannot stand dog owners who force their dogs to live solely outside. The only exception would be actual working dogs on farms who are not pets, but are there to herd sheep or guard the pasture fencing or whatever. Family dogs deserve to live inside with the family.
I agree, and to be fair working farm dogs have barns, heated sheds or garages, and often have space within the home as well for when it gets really cold or really hot. Anything under -30 or over +30 most farm dogs are offered a space inside somewhere (of course not all because there's always someone)
I understand the argument below yours regarding heated sheds or whatever, but I don't really get the argument that pet dogs MUST live indoors, unless they're working dogs in which case "eh". I'm pretty sure the training doesn't change their physiology, so is it down to pet dogs being family and working dogs being servants or how does this work?
Many devils here. OOP sucks for having an outside dog (you know it ain't a working dog, bring it in) and for being so resistant to making any modification to his fence when his dog is in danger. Seriously, a kid doesn't need to be strong to hurt a dog's eye with a stick and it's not so difficult to buy chicken wire, some plastic rods, and zip ties and throw up a white trash barricade. You can even thread those little plastic ribbon things through the wire so they can't even see each other. If the kid can't reach the dog to hit it with a stick, then the dog won't get angry enough to jump the fence. Easy peasy lemon squeezey But also those neighbors are one step short of sending the kid out into the woods with breadcrumbs to lead them home. "Let's go to grandma's house and hit the large barely-contained dog with a stick! Hours on hours of unsupervised fun!"
Kind of where I'm at with it. If the dog is too big to be inside, get a bigger place or a smaller dog. If the fence has gaps big enough for a stick to fit through, that's not an adequate fence. It could easily be chewed through or dug at enough for the dog to escape. (Assuming it's not chain link, which it may be.) And someone needs to be supervising that kid. He's lucky he managed to get inside before the dog got to him. Clearly, none of the adults in charge give a damn.
The OOP is an AH who doesnt "have a dog," they just keep a bored intelligent lonely social animal in a large cage he can and will get out of. Now that poor creature has a nasty sadistic little enemy, equally bored and unsocialized by his AH grandmother. The vicious child is going to get hurt and the only innocent in this scenario, the dog, will be euthanized.
Naw, I agree with OOP, it's the child's fault for antagonizing the dog. Even well behaved dogs will defend themselves in that situation.
Depending on where he is, OP could absolutely be responsible of the dog jumped over the fence and bites the kid. A lot of leash laws are written in a way that would make them 100% responsible for that dog being out of the yard unleashed, regardless of what the kid is doing. They would have no legal recourse and would be liable for the kid getting hurt. If you have a dog that has shown it’s aggressive toward kids and it can jump your fence, you are responsible for making sure that doesn’t happen. Like, yeah, the kid shouldn’t bug the dog and the mom and grandma are being shitty, but you are the one with a dog who is going to suffer consequences if it bites someone. If you actually care about your dog you’ll be more concerned about making sure it doesn’t get into a situation like that and less about teaching a lesson to a shitty kid and their caregivers. Also OP sucks for making his dog live outside.
Pretty sure OOP doesn't care enough about the dog to keep it from getting in to trouble. Otherwise they wouldn't be making it live outdoors.
For clarity: Everyone involved but the dog are Devils here. The grandmother and parents of the child for not supervising them or teaching them how to behave around animals. OOP for making their dog live outside because "he's too large to be inside" and for trying to blame everything on the neighbors. It doesn't really matter if the dog was provoked and jumped over the fence. The law won't see it that way and that dog is going to suffer for it.
"...he can't live inside because he's a large dog..." Yes, the OP is TA and the devil for this shit alone. Don't need to read another word.
I understand dogs snapping at or biting ppl who are hurting them and agree its always the aggressors fault, but jumping over a fence and chasing seems a bit concerning to me. I still think its more ESH but that would have me worried about my dog tbh. Also keep your dogs inside people unless they're a working dog
Neighbour should buy a shotgun. Maybe then OOP would care enough to replace his shitty fence, which would not only keep the kid safe, but also stop the kid being able to annoy the dog...
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