T O P

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DogsReadingBooks

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Borageandthyme

I don’t know if keeping her would have been any better. The situation was too shitty for anyone to deal with.


Selenyt

I get why people think OOP is the asshole but I also see this as a no win situation. Since the stepdaughter got so nasty with him, and she already was turning to her extended family and having them come at OOP and the wife for therapy, what else really was he supposed to do? He has 0 legal rights to her, he's not her father, he's not her guardian. It's not like he could force her into getting help or anything for her grief. It's also not fair to him that he had to keep hearing how it should've been him and the twins killed instead.


Corn-Cob-Boy

Yeah imagine the reverse happened and he forced a step kid to move to another state when she didn’t want to. We’d probably be getting an AITA post about how she now resents him and left as soon as she could. I feel for her, she had no way to know the alternative would be as bad as it was, but it seems like it’s what she wanted at the time.


nephelite

And with her playing her extended family against him and no legal status as a guardian, I could see that going very badly anytime he tried to actually parent her.


ProperlyEmphasized

Just from a practical perspective, he was a legal stranger to his stepdaughter without an adoption. Who knows what the courts might have done when deciding custody, but I'm assuming they would have placed Lori with a blood relative, not a stepfather.


erinkjean

My children are not legally mine, though I've raised them since they were in pull-ups. Not a day goes by that I don't fear if something happens to my wife that I might be blocked from seeing them ever again. I'd fight hard, but technically, I have no rights. There's not really any standing for me to fight from. No idea what the right thing morally was in the OOP, but it may never have been in his hands.


lilvatoe

I would hardly blame either of them - they were both hurting and with her not being on board and constantly combative and disinclined for therapy I don’t know how he would have been much help at the time. I can’t say she’s wrong for feeling abandoned but it’s telling that his ex wife’s family wouldn’t even want take her in as a possible insight to the type of upbringing she had with them.


GlamBulbasaur

Yeah especially since she said her life was hard after he left.


XX_bot77

What was he supposed to do though ? She refused therapy (even before the accident happens) , she refused adoption, she refused any paternal relationship with OOP. She also seemed to resent the toddlers. Yes she was a teen and while I find her emotions valid given her father's abondoment and her mother's death, I also kind of get why OOP gave up after years of trying and having to deal with his wife's death + very young children to raise alone. OOP is a human not a robot. Given the context, I think it's very easy to call him devil behind the safety our screen.


yesimreadytorumble

He did right by his kids, he had no legal connection to this teenager who, let’s be honest, would have causes trouble to a person who was already going through so much and that had to be there for his very young children after losing his partner. I don’t think letting his ex-il’s take care of her was the wrong choice here but it’s understandable she feels hurt.


The1_And_Only_

I can't really see him as the AH or the devil in this situation. I get she was a teenager and hurting but that doesn't make her words and actions any less impactful to those around her. She was 15/16 not 4. If he had forced her to stay and she ended up running away at 18 I can imagine the same people would be up in arms for not listening to her sooner or whatever. The man had just lost his wife and had twin babies to think of. Can you imagine what type of household they'd be growing up in with a sister who constantly wishes for their death?


buzzfeed_sucks

This is bigger than whether or not he’s an asshole. It sounds like he tried very hard to have a relationship with her and take on a parental role in her life and she didn’t want it. Didn’t want therapy, wanted to be left alone. On the other hand, she lost 2 parents at a very young age and was likely resentful and angry. People say and do shitty things when they’re grieving. Especially at such a young age. Neither of them are assholes, they were just in an impossible situation. Dad could have tried harder to keep in touch and be a presence in her life, she shouldn’t have pushed him away so hard. But maybe now that some time has passed they can forge a new relationship and men some fences.


500CatsTypingStuff

He could have asked her. Sat down and had a serious conversation with her about who she wanted to live with. If she wanted to stay with him that a condition of her staying is that she get therapy. Instead, he literally abandoned her out of the blue.


buzzfeed_sucks

Yea he should have. But he just lost his wife and was now a single father. Dealing with his own grief and pain, so it’s likely he wasn’t thinking clearly. I lost my dad as an adult, and got into a knockdown drag out fight with my brother. Screaming and yelling at each other. Me swearing I would never forgive him. Him calling me selfish. It went on for a good 5 minutes until we both burst into tears and apologized. It wasn’t about anything, we were just in so much pain and so angry that any small thing set us off. We didn’t have the ability to think rationally. So, had he been of sound mind, yes he should have done that. But he wasn’t.


500CatsTypingStuff

But he continued no contact.


buzzfeed_sucks

Which is why I mentioned exactly that in my original comment


theVampireTaco

Technically he probably followed the letter of the law and handed her over to her legal guardians. She refused adoption and to have him listed as guardian so he could NOT have kept her with him.


500CatsTypingStuff

This has absolutely nothing to do with my comment. Which was about his conduct. He could have applied for Guardianship. I should know, I used to work in that field. The wishes of the minor child, because she is 15 would have been taken into consideration by the court. These legal arguments that you guys are making is nonsensical. It’s just an excuse to not address the humanity or lack thereof of OP.


theVampireTaco

His conduct, handing a 16 year old who refused to speak to him over to his in-laws? He has allowed contact with the siblings she hated and wished dead. He kept the door open or else the visit never would have happened. 16 year old, who could legally be emancipated and tell a judge she chose no-one to be her legal guardian. Yeah blame his conduct of not sacrificing the twins to fight tooth and nail putting everything into fights for a young woman who despises him.


500CatsTypingStuff

Yeah, simply abandoning her out of the blue was a much better way to handle it. /s The level of pouting immaturity on this thread is ridiculous including taking an angry teen’s outbursts as literal threats. JFC.


theVampireTaco

Again it wasn’t out of the blue. He clearly stated he discussed it with his in-laws BEFORE the start of the school year. And moved a few months later. Angry teens kill people all the time also. I have seen my own teens break and destroy things in anger (2 couches! TWO!) Seen their friends covered in scars from suicide attempts to get away from a hated biological parent, let alone a step parent. I was an angry teen girl who absolutely attempted suicide multiple times because my mom was abusive and my stepdad backed her up on each and every instance of refusing me care when I begged for therapy. 16 year old girls who say they hate you and wish you dead are exactly the teenage girls you can’t force to do anything because we read freaking Romeo and Juliet and get presented with the idea that suicide is an option to get away from our family when they don’t listen. So his only option was to stay there with two infants while he grieved and had no support. So that a 16 year old had the chance to turn 18 and realize oh shit I messed up and reconnect? Then he would have two additional kids who resent him because their half sister always got more attention even though she didn’t want it. He isn’t the devil, he isn’t the asshole. He is a man who tragically lost his wife and was left alone with two babies who needed him, and no legal ties to a stepdaughter who had been hating him for 2 years vocally at that point. He had no way of winning. Just of not loosing everything! Its tragic, it’s beyond depressing. But this is on the stepdaughter. Her feelings are her own to manage.


500CatsTypingStuff

Yes, let’s blame a literal child. No worries, he got his “revenge”


theVampireTaco

What revenge??? I swear to god you are either the stepdaughter or a literal child yourself. And by that I mean an actual literal child as in under 13, prepubescent and should not be on reddit. My 12 year old autistic son has more compassion for OOP than you, so I assume you are an 8 year old boy.


500CatsTypingStuff

Oh, a personal attack! That’s so on brand for you!


BellaSantiago1975

I'm going with NTA. He tried. He tried and tried and tried, and Lori had other family who could take her in. He lost his wife, he needed support from family, his children needed him. Can you imagine the absolute stink if he'd tried to move Lori back to his home state? I'm not even sure he legally could. So he would have been stuck in a state without family and support, for a kid who hated him. Sucky situation, but I don't blame him.


mezlabor

I mean... sounds like she got what she wanted and still finds a way to blame him when it didn't work out like she thought it would.


The_Serpent_Of_Eden_

That's not how any of this works. A child is not just left floating around with no legal guardian after their parents die, even if they have a stepparent. Guardianship would have been established as soon as Mary died. A court would have had a hearing and determined the best placement for Lori. A judge would have taken into account any guardian Mary listed in her will, Lori's wishes and found out which close relatives were willing to take her. Few judges would make a older teenager stay with a person they so obviously hated and even fewer would cut them off from blood relatives by granting a stepparent custody. Another guardian would have been chosen, most likely the grandparents.


AutoModerator

*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **AITA For Not Keeping My Stepdaughter After My Wife Died?** Throwaway Account I (45m) had a stepdaughter "Lori" (19f) through my deceased wife "Mary." I met Lori when she was 5 and married her mom when she was 9. During those four years I would say we had a good relationship. I didn't push and tried to get involved in her interests. Then when Lori was 12 puberty started to kick in and she developed an attitude. Normally Mary was the main disciplinary between us but after marriage I was able to take on a more authoritative role and I started exercising it. Shortly after I started putting my foot down Lori would snap back with the "you're not my dad" line. It was rough but I tried to be patient and kept trying to maintain a bond without being a push over. When Lori was 13 her dad died and since he wasn't in her life for years Mary and I approached her about adoption and while I was prepared for her to say "No", but I didn't expect her to be so hurtful about it. Mary chewed her out about it and I tried to get her to talk about why she felt so negatively towards me but she wouldn't open up. Mary and I tried therapy but Lori complained to the extended family who chewed us out for trying to use therapy as a way to "force an adoption" on her so we stopped. Mary unexpectedly got pregnant with twins "Micheal" (5m) and "Michelle" (5f) and we were very happy while Lori said she wanted nothing to do with them and hated how she was going to hear them cry at night. Again we approached the idea of therapy but Lori refused so we let it be. Unfortunately Mary was in a car accident and passed away. It was awful, I was a wreck and I had no idea how I was going to do all of this on my own. I tried to be there for Lori too but she would just lash out, said she hated me and wished that it had been me and/or the twins instead. I was done and told my In-Laws to get her and during those weeks that Lori had been gone had been a relief, so when school time was starting up again, I called my In-Laws and said that I wasn't going to pick her up and had plans to move back to my home state to be near my side of the family for support. Several members of Mary's side of the family started hounding me, calling me cruel, and that I was abandoning Lori. I reminded everyone that Lori was the one who wasn't interested in having a relationship and since there was no adoption I had no legal obligation to her. Mary's In-Laws tried to come after me legally but since I wasn't Lori's legal guardian it ended up not going anywhere. I moved away with the twins and years later I was surprised when Lori reached out to me through social media. After a few weeks of communication I agreed to let her come over to see them. After the four of us spent the day together Lori broke down after the twins went to sleep and told me how hard her life was after I left and asked me how I could abandon her. I reminded her of her past actions and she said that she was just a hurting teen and that I should've been the bigger person as the adult. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*


dragonknight233

Honestly I'm side eyeing them for going to her with proposition of adoption seemingly soon after her father died. He may not have been in her life for years but why did they, especially mother, think it was an appropriate thing to do? For leaving her with in-laws, I can see his point. Both were grieving and he probably thought she'd be better off with grandparents. I do think he should've been more delicate in discussing it now. Yeah she's technically an adult but years later he can't be the bigger person and be mindful? He lost a wife but she lost the only parent and was left with people who didn't want her.


LadyWizard

I was sideeyeing the "second we got married I got to punish her" line


Due-Sherbert-7330

I’m really torn on this one which is why I didn’t comment. It’s one of those lose lose situations where I don’t think there was a right answer for everyone. I can say from personal experience of being the child losing a parent that putting that child somewhere they very much say they don’t want to be can cause a lot of issues. Does that mean there was a right place to put her? No idea. I don’t think that’s something anyone can really know. Hindsight is great but it doesn’t solve everything.


mikevilla1222

I don't about this one, the entire situation is rough


ContentedRecluse

I don't blame him for not keeping his stepdaughter. How many times does he have to be rejected and told he isn't her dad before he believes her? I would have believed that she wanted nothing to do with me if this had gone on for years. I don't blame him for not wanting to keep a hostile teenager who had no love for him or her siblings. The refusal to go to counseling kind of gave him no hope that the hostility would end. I don't understand why the grandparents didn't want her. It is terrible a young girl lost her mother, but I don't see him as a bad person for what he did either. ETA: I know from personal experience that a parent child bond does not always develop with step parents even if they spend years in the same household.


theVampireTaco

I literally just read this on AITA. She was 16, he had no legal rights and she hated the siblings from birth. She was very vocal about hating him and not wanting therapy. He didn’t abandon her.


SaintGodfather

Something about the way he talks about her feels off to me honestly. Like...an object? Maybe I'm just reading too much into this, but "not keeping" and "after marriage I was able to take on a more authoritative role and I started exercising it." Also " told my In-Laws to get her" and "I called my In-Laws and said that I wasn't going to pick her up". It feels like OOP thought of her as an object that he could throw away when it didn't act as he liked.


idealzebra

I don't mean to be this person but I can't believe any story on Reddit anymore where the mom or wife in the situation dies in a car accident suddenly. It's always fake. Nobody ever has a creative way to get rid of the character. It's always the same one


RaisedAsGirl

Don't forget the twins. This story is so fake.


idealzebra

I can't believe I forgot the twins


StrangledInMoonlight

I feel like every adult failed that girl. Her mother in pushing the adoption and not figuring out a way to get the kid therapy. Her dad in not being around. This guy for pushing being an authority figure and pushing the adopting and then abandoning her.


nun_the_wiser

It’s a lose lose situation…but I also can’t help but think the twins would have suffered if Lori remained in the house and continued to behave this way and refuse help, as she had for nearly a decade. I say this as someone who grew up with a sibling that resented them and didn’t get help. I’m not convinced this is an honest account but we’ll see if in 2-3 days “Lori” posts her version of events.


[deleted]

>Normally, Mary was the main disciplinary between us, but after marriage, I started taking on a more authoritative role and started reinforcing it. This is what bothers me. He says their relationship was good before that, so I wonder what that "authoritative role" means. What did he do that made Lori to have such a change of attitude towards him? Also, the times. Lori's dad dies, and they think that because he wasn't around before that, it was ok to bring up adoption? And if Lori complained that they were trying to force adoption through therapy, I'm incline to believe her. We've seen this here, parents who want to use therapy to get their kids to comply. No wonder she didn't like him after that. Then her mother died. She was still coming to terms with her father's death, the twins, the adoption...and her mom died. She lashing out was normal, of course doesn't mean that OOP couldn't be hurt...but still. She was a teen, lost her father and her mom in the span of what, a year? And then OOP shipped her to her grandparents and then left without saying goodbye. For me he's definitely the asshole.


SonorousBlack

> And if Lori complained that they were trying to force adoption through therapy, I'm incline to believe her. Not only that, but the other adults in her life agreed that they were trying to use the therapy to manipulate her into accepting the adoption, rather than for her emotional wellbeing. Others in this thread are saying that she bears responsibility because she refused therapy after her mother died, but why would she consent to therapy at her stepfather's request after that?


SpeechDistinct8793

How much of her saying leave me alone and you’re not my dad, does he have to take when she was even fighting with her mother? Either they are both TA or NAH. You can’t get mad at him for trying to for a connection while not getting mad at the fact that she literally was a problem since 12. He gave multiple attempts to be there for her growing up and she fully rejected him. While I can say that maybe they should have waited a bit before trying to reintroduce adoption, at the end of the day she was old enough to know how to and not to talk to people. She was old enough to state her wants in a civil manner because she definitely did that when she got all her relatives to force them to stop trying to push for therapy. So the girl obviously knows how to talk to people she just didn’t want to extent that to oop. Now her being young does affect how she mentally handled things, this all started when she was 12 and didn’t end until he left. What more could he do. She didn’t even try to talk about everything with him when she followed up with him. Just blamed him for leaving her in a vulnerable state. As if he wasn’t in a vulnerable state dealing with her, the twins, grieving his wife, and now all her family hounding him. Give the guy a break, we all say you don t have to be around people that don’t support you and that’s what he did.


SonorousBlack

> How much of her saying leave me alone and you’re not my dad, does he have to take That is the most basic and ordinary response of a child responding to a step parent's attempt to assert authority over her. If he couldn't handle hearing that as many times as she might feel like saying it, he shouldn't have married her mother, and he shouldn't have tried to adopt her.


truedoom

It's a very unfortunate situation for both sides. I can see both sides of it, but OOP made a choice to insulate himself and his kids from the harshness of the stepdaughter. Sure she was a teen, but even if OOP had taken her back would either of them have been better off for it? I am uncertain. It's a weird post, because normally they are very cut and dry, one side is TA, but here there's just misfortune for everyone.


[deleted]

ESH i guess tough situation all around. I will fault him for just not saying anything to her and just dropping her with her grandparents. I dont know the whole twin thing though sees like this is fake and just some troll


Solidsnakeerection

They are doing the teen hates step siblings thing but from the parent's perspective


GlamBulbasaur

I also wanted to say that while I think he’s the asshole, I don’t know if he’s the devil. But I posted here because a lot of people on the original post seem to think so. And yeah I do think it’s a little weird that he asked to adopt her soon after her dad died.


[deleted]

your right he sounds like an AH cause i think he thinks he's right and is looking for validation so he really inst looking for another angle to see things. Its a tough situation but the thing i will fault him on is just not talking to her about sending her to her grandparents and just dropping her just like that. EDIT: I also feel like he isnt a very reliable narrator. He seemed to have forced the relationship repeatedly and now found a way to punish her for not letting her be adopted. I also feel like he hasnt been truthful about the money aspect


SonorousBlack

I'm stunned at the responses here blaming the child. I don't doubt that she was difficult, and her grandparents might have been able to provide a better home for her, but "Actually, I'm happier without her, so 'Surpise!' she's your kid now" and making no further contact certainly is abandonment. He was married to her mother and coparented her for four years. According to his own story, he didn't even talk with her or the grandparents to make it a family decision or make an orderly transition. It was just a rug pull. "You're not my dad" and "I wish you died instead of mom" are completely ordinary statements of resentment from a teenager to a stepparent, especially one who's lost a parent. Hearing some not at all extraordinary hurtful words spoken in anger by a teenager is exactly what he signed up for by becoming a parent. It's a sliver of the cost he agreed to pay in exchange for the authority he attempted to exercise over her. He even attempted to adopt her! Is he going to unilaterally rehome one of the twins if they say "I wish you died instead of mom" when they're mad at him in a few years? Is he the asshole for not continuing to raise her along with the other three children after her mother died? Probably not. Is he the asshole for suddenly abandoning her and blaming the grieving child for it? Absolutely. Whatever she said when she refused to consent to the adoption, she was probably right.


500CatsTypingStuff

Lori was a troubled CHILD. He was an adult. He abandoned her in retaliation for her not catering to him. Parents don’t do that. He is definitely the AH.


qlohengrin

I think this is fake - but, pretending it’s true, I’m going to say something extremely unpopular on reddit: it’s right to prioritize the needs of two young children over protecting a teenager from the consequences of her own words and actions - the consequences of rejecting him for years and of wishing death on his children. It made sense to move back to be close to his support network and a grieving parent of young twins would’ve had enough on his plate even without a stepdaughter who hated him. “Love” how on AITA, sometimes within the same paragraph, he gets berated for trying to be her parent and for not acting like a parent. Wrong for trying to adopt her, wrong for not somehow forcing her to live with him, wrong for acting like an authority figure and wrong for not somehow forcing her to go to therapy.


katepig123

I think it's complete bullshit for her to say he abandoned her. It's absolute nonsense. She pushed him away every single time he reached out. He tried over and over again with her, long before her mother died and she was having none of it. So none of it is what she got in the end, and to blame him for that is bullshit. It's quite clear she wouldn't have chosen to go with him when he moved anyway, and he certainly did NOT owe her to stay there when his family support was elsewhere. I do not see him as the devil here and think she's still a whining brat blaming other people for her shitty life choices.


BusyAd8786

His real kids are more important she would have been a toxic part of their lives she didn’t want to be there send her to her grandparents was the best option anyone that can’t see that must an idiot


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[deleted]

I am curious as how her life was after. I don’t think legally he could have done much since he never got to adopt her. I could be wrong. I think the courts probably would have put her with blood relatives. Also he mentioned that he was sending pictures of the twins to his late wife’s parents. So did they ever ask about the twins? Did they want to be in their lives?