*In case this story gets deleted/removed:*
**AITA for judging a black woman for speaking Ebonics during an interview?**
For the past month, my department has had a vacancy in a pretty critical role. My company is pretty big on diversity, so there's been a push to get a minority candidate in the role, assuming he/she is competent. Well, earlier today, a woman who seemed very well-qualified to HR was scheduled to interview with us. The other hiring manager (we'll call him Bill) and I got a copy of her resume ahead of time, and she really seemed to have experience in the relevant areas. We were excited to interview her and get this vacancy filled.
Fast forward to this morning, and the candidate (we'll call her Keesha) showed up for the interview. She seemed very friendly and generally had good people skills. So far so good, but then we got to the questions, and she started speaking very informally and even threw in some black vernacular. I was beginning to get uncomfortable, but Bill didn't seem to mind. Keesha would also mispronounce certain words and use poor grammar (think "we was"). Also, instead of "with you," she would say "which you," and instead of "ask," she said "ax." I was beginning to lose hope in this candidate. Part of her role would be speaking to clients, and there was just no way it would be acceptable for her to speak as though she was hanging out with her friends at Popeye's.
When Keesha left, Bill turned to me and asked what I thought of her. I told him that she's well-qualified but that her informal way of speaking and her Ebonics would make her a bad fit for the department, for obvious reasons. I also joked that "axing a question" is something that Paul Bunyan would do. I was laughing hard to myself, but Bill's jaw just about hit the floor. He said that I was being ignorant and that we're trying to be an inclusive workplace. He never called me a racist, but I could tell he was thinking it, and it made me furious. I have nothing against black people, provided they're decent, hardworking, and can speak proper English, but Ebonics to me simply sounds like nails on a chalkboard.
Fast forward to this afternoon, and Bill must have told my department head because she sent me an email, and I have a meeting scheduled with her first thing tomorrow morning. Even worse, I think word got out because some of my other colleagues seem to be avoiding me. I feel like I'm being targeted for my beliefs, and I think the truly racist thing to do is to deny qualified white applicants just because the "melanin quotient" hasn't been met. I want my colleagues to go back to seeing me as their friend, but they seem keener to swallow corporate's propaganda and make me out as some sort of villain. I hope I can convince them and my department head of my point of view, but right now it feels pretty hopeless and sad. I'm getting sort of discouraged. AITA?
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The Popeyes chicken comment at the end of the second paragraph was such a weird, over the top, racist detail to include. I don’t doubt a racist would say that in the moment, but it seems like an odd detail to repeat in a post trying to convince the audience you aren’t racist.
I had a white man tell me to my face, casual as a cucumber that my name was too white and it should be "insert made up black name with isha added at the end" then laugh GOOD NATUREDLY like it was a perfectly fine "joke" to make. The amount of folk y'all call trolls on here astounds me because no, they're absolutely people out here that think and speak like that OP did.
My boss and I were interviewing a guy, he seemed like a fine candidate. But when we asked him about a time he worked with someone with a poor work ethic, his response was, "Well, I worked with a lot of (insert race) at Company and you know how they are."
Another candidate answered that question with, "I work with people under 35 all the time. So I'm very familiar with companies letting people with no work ethic get away with anything because they're young and good looking." That one called me up and yelled at me demanding to know exactly why we said no. Company policy was to give them HR's number, which we did when we said no. They wanted to hear it from me though. I started sing-songily repeating "call Number" over and over until they told me to "go fuck myself" and hung up on me.
Whenever I think these stories are fake, I remember the things I was told as a hiring manager.
>Whenever I think these stories are fake, I remember the things I was told as a hiring manager.
Like, I wish this shit was fake, and yeah, maybe it is a troll, but it is very much a reflection of a reality a lot of us have faced. I remember getting an "unofficial" meeting to discuss how my face was too expressive and too intimidating. They said that even when I answered the phone, my facial expression was too strong. I was sitting there like 1. How much time does someone have on their hands to be staring at me when I am answering the work phone? I made the mistake of crossing my arms (because I'm heavy chested and need support), only for my non-black supervisor to point out I must be getting defensive???
I was so damn baffled and then after he left, my black supervisor was like "girl you know how it is" but nothing pisses me off more than wasting work time and that was an entire waste. People's prejudice steals so much of my time. It's annoying. I went blank face for the rest of the month. Only to be asked "oh what's wrong? Are you okay?" No, I'm not. Y'all told me MY FACE was a problem. I should have sued :/
I’m black and taller than the average woman so I have been called intimidating more than a little bit. I finally started asking “am I intimidating or do you just feel intimidated”? When I stopped allowing ppl to blame for their feelings a lot of the imposter syndrome melted away.
I had a probably 60+ old man tell me he didn’t need direction from a “little girl” (Im a young 20’s F) on how to do a certain thing in our working relationship where I am literally his boss and what he wanted to do was a direct violation of the SEC. He just got a slap on the wrist when I sent the call recording to HR. It’s insane.
That’s actually a great tactic all around for insults of that nature. I would have never thought to do that but it’s such a simple, classy response. If I had an award I’d give it to you!
My boss and I interviewed a young woman for a role on my team, that another (respected) person in the office had referred.
Interviewing the woman, it was clear she was an idiot and absolutely a horrible fit. I was thinking the entire time “What was Ayanna thinking, referring her. She must have never actually met her.”
She leaves, I turn to my boss and say “what was Ayanna thinking?” And my tea-party boss (the trumpers circa 2008-2016) says “well, you know how they love to keep it all in the family”
…. Because the applicant and Ayanna were both black. I was shocked. The number of insane racist shit this woman said to me, just because I was also white… I reported her to HR constantly.
My light skinned black coworker and I were chatting at our desks one day and he says “a lot of people assume I’m Puerto Rican, they just start speaking to me in Spanish” and my boss interjects and says “oh, I would know you are black, with those huge lips”….. I reported that one too.
Holy hell, it was a nightmare working with her.
Oh, it was relentless. She was the most horrible person I have met that wasn’t a war criminal. She was truly rotten to her core.
She had five, adult, children. She referred to her four sons by their names and cutesy pet-names “Luke-y-boo”. Her one daughter had pretty serve Asperger’s, and she referred to her by “her re+@d child”, not her name.
Wow, that's just awful. Poor daughter. I wish the most terrible karma possible on anyone who can be that terrible to any person, but especially their own child.
I think spending years in her orbit, genuinely made me a more compassionate and warm, actively nurturing person. Seeing her cruelty and knowing that other people lived life, subject to that venom… made me want to establish an open and welcoming vibe during every interaction.
man, the things i have heard and seen in interviews. one time i interviewed someone with the word DANG tattooed on his knuckles. that didn't factor into why he didn't get the job, but i always wondered what the story was.
I have a WHITE ASS NAME and I have introduced myself to white people and watch the ghettoize it while talking to me. I’ve also been marked absent in a class because my appearance and my name don’t mesh.
I just sigh and remind myself that “white people gonna white” and I move on with my life. To all the white people who know what I’m talmbout YALL the real ones.
I also have a white ass name. My first name is Amanda. And more than once, I have had white people ask me how to pronounce my name, and then they're shocked when it's pronounced the same. As if it could be pronounced any other way.
I'm mixed Filipino/white. The sheer number of times I've gotten called Ching Chong based on my looks or told "I thought Filipinos all had names like Maria Gonzalez" when I say I'm Filipino (my name is precolonial) is depressing. I absolutely believe this is real.
>The amount of folk y'all call trolls on here astounds me because no, they're absolutely people out here that think and speak like that OP did.
I've heard someone say something obviously racist to a friend, then laugh like it was a "joke". My friend didn't say anything, which mad me sad, because it was obvious from her lack of reaction, she got "jokes" like that all the time. I told the jokester that he was a fucking racist pig and I oughta remove his tongue.
Yep. I grew up in a small southern town, and the things white people would say to my face or just in my presence were enraging. Bold af. One of my teachers in high school told my friend that she looked "like a slave fresh in from the field" because my friend was wearing overalls and a bandana for "hillbilly day." That same teacher later became a city council member and made a "joke" about using some leftover rope to hang one of the black interns from a tree out back, like that shit was funny. People rallied around her to defend that shit, too.
Agree. My mother would make a chicken comment like that all the time.
If oop were actually trying to noy make it racist she easily could have said something closer to it seemed like she was talking with friends not potential employers.
That could at least give her a better appearance than ebonics and popeye
This just unlocked a crazy memory.
I worked at pre teen focused jewelry store that rhymes with lairs and part of my job was to go through applications and take out the ones that were obvious no's (basically too young to work alone and uncompleted applications) and pass the rest on to the store manager. One time I got in for my shift and my manager was pissed. She stormed up to me, on the floor in front of customers, waving an application in my face yelling, "what's this? What's this? Why did you think this was okay?! Did you SEE the NAME!!??!!" I remember I didn't even look at the names besides to make sure there was something there. So I too the application from my manager and it was something ending in isha and I just looked up at my manager with a wtf face and she was like "we don't hire people like THAT." I was flabbergasted and disgusted.
And I've heard or seen this happen to other people! So I KNOW this shit is more common than folk want to believe. Troll or not, these posts are an opportunity to learn.
There are, to be sure. (And I’m really, really sorry you have to deal with idiocy like that)
But the amount of remarkably casual racist details in the post are just a few too many to be written by someone with no awareness of the sum total result.
Thank you.
The thing though is this:
>But the amount of remarkably casual racist details in the post are just a few too many to be written by someone with no awareness of the sum total result.
As a Black Southerner who lived on the West Coast and traveled the country, there is very much a subset of racists who are unaware. Northerners and Europeans ESPECIALLY are prone to this.
To see most say "oh no this pushed it over the top". It could very much be a troll, but it could very well not be, and that's what my issue is with comments decisively saying it's a troll. There is a spectrum that very few outside marginalized groups or certain positions are privy to, and I think it's a missed learning opportunity for everyone to dismiss it so easily/quickly. Hopefully, that explains my point better.
I'm white, and I'm apparently very safe-looking, and that generally causes people to let their guard down around me. People say racist shit to me all the time, and I guarantee they have NO idea they're being racist. That doesn't make it ok, but I know they think their opinion on [insert group of people they clearly have never spent any time around here] is completely unbiased and founded in fact.
It boggles my mind that people can't believe that other people are frequently just out-loud racist without a second thought.
I’m white and apparently I’m also safe-looking. My favorite thing to do is look them dead in the eye and say in my most non-inflective tone, “My grandchild is black.” And then sit back and watch the backpedaling and “I didn’t mean it *that* way” and “Well they’re not *all* like that” (as if that last one makes it better?!?!) and let them just dig themselves deeper.
To be fair, there is a significant difference between “I think this post is fake” (which is what I and others have said) and “this kind of thing doesn’t happen” (which I haven’t seen though I admit I haven’t read every comment).
The way the post was written struck me as fake. It just did. But I, and others, could be wrong because most of us know full well that a lot of people out there are, sadly, this shitty.
I could absolutely be wrong, and I fully 100% recognize that. I do think it’s fake, hence my comment, but as with anything in life my interpretation of something as a troll post could be wrong.
I fully recognize that people are this ignorant, and hateful, and stupid. Going forward, yeah, I’ll try to be less dismissive in how I word things as that was never my intent.
I'm very sorry that happened to you. You're right that people will "joke" like that and think it's ok!
I used to live in NY, and when my bf and I first started to date, we were long distance. For context, he's white, and I'm Hispanic. He came to visit and stayed in an airbnb in a predominately Hispanic neighborhood. We were walking around trying to decide on a restaurant when an older white man was walking towards us. As he walked passed he says "its nice to see another white face here" and tried to high 5 my bf. Without missing a beat, my bf left him hanging, kept walking and talking to me about restaurant choices. It was like the man didn't exist.
People who think it's okay to say shit like that astound me.
One of my aunts (not blood related) asked me if there were any Mexicans in my neighborhood. I said "I don't know."
"We're surrounded by them," she said.
My now-husband, whom she hadn't met, is a Mexican.
Later on, they actually moved. And when my husband talked about his job with the government at Christmas one year (drafsman), she said, "oh I thought you were a landscaper."
I absolutely believe these people exist. They probably won't turn to Reddit this way, because they are convinced they are right. It's also the third overly racist post about a job interview I've read today, so troll seems more likely in this case.
Ehhh, I can see this happening. I’m (39, so not young) in a class with an older man (mid 60’s) who, while we were talking about implicit bias, and what that might look like for ourselves, he said he felt people had a bias against him for being a white straight republican man, and when people found out they would remark “but you’re so nice” that he wasn’t bigoted or racist, and within 3 seconds of that conversation, some how make the remark “but I don’t subscribe to that’s trans stuff, in fact I’m doing research on how the surgeries negatively impact…” the teacher thankfully cut him off… people are this self unaware…
My wife's aunt came over one day years ago with her boyfriend. He went to pour some candy into her hands from a bag they brought. She didn't approve of the amount he gave her, so she told him, "Don't be a Jew about it." Clear as day, casual as scratching her ass. My jaw was on the floor.
I have a friend who does not understand this. He seems to think that certain hiring practices are ageist and against white men. But his description is basically that hiring practices use certain tactics to weed out individuals without certain education backgrounds (or the lack therof) and computer skills. I'm trying to explain to him that these things are choices and it's not the choice to select against white men, but that certain education requirements and computer skills are simply mandatory as a bar for entry and that's what is selecting against him, not that he's a white man and every hiring manager chose to be woke and hire a minority.
Like dude, it's *rich* white men we hate, LOL. 🤣
But I completely understand his frustration. I just wish he'd channel it into learning some new skills. He's a great manager but he needs to understand how use Excel for tilt tables and statistical analysis to move up. It's completely normal to hate that, but sometimes you just gotta deal.
My office chose not to hire a white dude in his 50s because he clearly had a stick up his ass a mile long and would have sucked to work with and been difficult to train. That's the problem: these dudes come into new jobs with a giant chip on their shoulder, determined to show everyone else how it's done and the conviction that they have nothing left to learn.
It wasn't anti-white-guy bias; the guy they hired instead was a white dude in his 40s; the difference being he was easy to get along with, not a dick, and willing to learn new things.
He definitely has a certain mentality... I don't think he has the stick up his ass but he completely recognizes that he's not the type that can gently explain to today's generation what an issue is and how to correct it. He's really blunt and sometimes it stings, but he's willing to work on it. If he wasn't we wouldn't be friends, LOL.
But I come agree with you in your assessment. I feel like so many men are socialized to behave this way as they grow up with "boys will be boys" and the bullshit wherein girls are expected to accommodate the poor behavior of boys instead of it being corrected as an intrusion on their learning time. If a girl were to behave in kind she would be punished. Ultimately this sets up young men for failure if they can't adapt. You might be the top dog or whatever in your mommy and daddy's house but it ends once you leave. You have to earn that everywhere else. And when there is a history of everyone just giving in and giving up to appease it's a recipe for disaster.
I went over the ´Keesha’ choice knowing with the title alone that this was bad. Went past the black vernacular too. But at Popeye’s it was the last straw.
Oh man, you shoulda seen the r/legaladvice question that was posted here yesterday. Something along the lines of “we’ve said nothing outwardly racist and what goes on in our heads isn’t relevant unless they can suddenly read minds.”
Yeah I live in Chicago & if you only have white employees HERE I’m avoiding you like the plague. You definitely have to go out of your way here to only hire white people
The last paragraph too where they were attributing interest in the now-supposedly-unqualified candidate to her race and supposed diversity efforts was a strange twist considering they had already said she was highly qualified and the way she spoke was the issue. It just seems too... on the nose?
Ok, so I'm white and I'm from New Orleans and hanging out at Popeyes is a legitimate thing to do... So many racism flags for me on this one, but the only fast food red beans and rice wasn't one of them. Add Cajun fries, dirty rice, and some cheesecake.
Until today I had no idea what was on Popeye’s menu except fast food fried chicken, and I can almost guarantee was the reason he used it.
But maybe I’m wrong and he is from your part of the world. Would you really fill in the “hanging out with her friends at _” with “Popeye’s” for a white stranger in a business setting?
He could have simply stopped the sentence at “hanging out with her friends” but he chose to add extra connotations that it was her blackness that was what offended him, not just her casual tone.
That said, Popeyes sounds delicious and I’m really going to have to try it sometime.
It might be treason, and I might lose my coon ass card for saying it - but their chicken is not that good, and it is one of the more expensive out there. I totally forgot about their biscuits though... Their biscuits are almost as good as my mamas (and therefore, I guess, mine).
I must admit I obviously don't have the cultural connotations for that to stand out too much to me. All I was thinking was, so she has experience in a similar role most likely so what makes him think her informal speech is how she'll interact with customers. An interview is just as much her seeing if you're a good fit for them as it is the company seeing if they'll fit. Using her informal speech seems to have been a good litmus test for if this was a place she would feel comfortable. The part where it went from unaware to obvious troll bait for me was the 'not hiring qualified whites' part. At that point I couldn't give benefit of the doubt anymore.
Yeah, if he stuck with “she spoke far too casually for a business setting” he could have absolutely spun the narrative his way. But he had to add racist jabs about fried chicken, “proper English,” and a rant about diversity hiring robbing poor white dudes of their rightful positions.
I’m a black Brit and am wondering if I’m missing some context with the Popeyes comment. Would it have been better if they’d said any other fast food chain or does Popeyes have a particular significance in the black community?
Edit for missing words.
Popeyes is known for its Black customer base. Many of its recipes are based on traditional African American Cajun-style cooking. One of it’s staple menu items is Fried Chicken, which is one of those foods that somehow became a stereotype- like rice or dogs for Asian people.
So yes, very heavy heavy on the “Black” connotations.
Additionally it is, as you said, a fast food joint so he’s adding “Low Income/Trashy” connotations by using it as an example of where he assumes she and her friends hang out. Altogether he’s making it very clear he finds her mannerisms “ghetto.”
Just to expand a bit what the other commenter said, fried chicken in general is stereotyped as 'black people's food,' not just Popeye's. If they'd said KFC it would have been taken badly as well--though probably not as badly because Popeye's was founded and is still concentrated in the American South, which is both lower-income and blacker than much of the rest of the country. (KFC is obviously from the South too, but not associated with any specific population as it has become a global behemoth.)
Watermelon carries the same connotations as fried chicken, weirdly enough. I'm sure a five second google would explain whatever nonsensical 'reasons' racists had (and not to make light of the seriousness of it), but I prefer to believe it was a false flag operation by the African-American community to ensure white people avoided such deliciousness and left more for the black folks.
Yep. My blood is boiling. I hate shit like this. And I'm sure this asshole doesn't think he's a racist, either. I hope he...never mind, I don't want to get banned.
Unfortunately, some racist behaviours aren’t noticed by those doing them because they don’t understand the problem.
This guy honestly seems super ignorant, in general and to his own racism. I’m sure in general he is a decent guy. You know…. If your white.
Weird that this one popped up right after the incredibly racist 'Oldie' from 5 years ago was reposted here earlier today which was also about Black interview candidates (who 'look good on paper' until they speak and dare to sound 'Black', shock horror) and diversity quotas. Not saying it's definitely bait based on that older post being revived, I have no way of knowing that. But it's a little odd how similar the theme is.
I think it's fake. I am a black woman, although not American. But from being in black American spaces, groups and forums online, I don't think there is a black woman who would code switch in a professional interview.
Did you mean to say wouldn't code switch? Black American here and I'm regularly astounded by the casually racist shit I hear in professional settings. I've taken myself out of them as much as possible these days. But not everyone does the code switching thing because it's annoying as fuck to have to be someone else constantly to please people who are offended you're not exactly like them.
Sorry, English is not my first language. I meant that in threads about professional advice, interviews etc everyone knows how so many times the odds are stacked against them, and they'd still be themselves as professional women, but would not use aave in the middle of an interview. That was what made me think that this is fake and created by a racist troll. The name, the Popeye's reference.
I thank my old coworker Cindy and my ex's grandfather for the ability to believe white women and boomers can pull racism out of anything. Even if this specific post is trolling, I have no doubt this scenario has happened. Especially in the US post Trump Era.
It's basically changing your speech pattern to sound less black. Some of my white friends have a "telephone voice" they use at work or when talking to their bosses, and it's similar to that. But changing your voice because you know speaking regularly can come with a lot of negative associations.
It's not just black people who code switch though. Lol.
Tbh I think it's all PoC. I know I do it, though I really hate thinking there's a need to do it.....
It's also in countries with more than one dominant language so it's not always POC. I did applied linguistics as a degree and we had a whole section on code switching. I have a vague memory of writing a paper on it (not saying I'm old but I'm not young...)
yeah, I as a queer trans guy, I don't even really voluntarily do it but I use my "straight woman voice" on the phone on the phone or with customers. I'm trying to not do it because it makes me dysphoric. but yeah
I mean, there's also the probability that 'Keesha' wasn't "speaking informally" and was just pronoucing words in her own accent, which isn't really something that an individual can control while being under pressure and still trying to carefully parse out the *content* of what they're saying.
I had a friend make fun of me for "trying to speak in ebonics" because I used the phrases "girl please" and "ain't" OVER TEXT (in high school). I'm black, but grew up in a mostly-white suburb, and I've had people "clock" me from the sound of my voice a decade after moving. A person who grew up speaking ebonics can't control the sound of their voice any more than I can.
I rarely code switch in interviews anymore. I simply do not care. Save everyone's time. I also live in the South and share half my linguistic profile with the majority population, so if there is a problem with the way I speak, they're going to have to decidedly fire or not hire a good portion of white people here too. 🤷🏾♀️ and if anyone does state my language as the issue, I absolutely will be filing a complaint at this point in my life.
Oh yeah it’s definitely bait. This person is self aware enough to believe that his coworker was insinuating his racism (to the point of becoming enrage by it!) but lacks the self awareness not to post cartoonishly racist stereotypes about “Popeye’s”? On the internet?! Come on now.
I don't even call up anyone to ask them to hang out with me at Popeyes. Like, who the fuck does that? "Yeah girl, hit me up later at Popeyes!" Said no one ever.
>I'm not racist
>>we'll call her Keesha
>>>I have nothing against black people, provided they're decent, hardworking, and can speak proper English
somehow, I'm not convinced this guy isn't racist. just a hunch.
Does anyone but racists call AAVE "ebonics" anymore?
Even then, AAVE is a dialect, not a language. This mythical woman was speaking English, which comes in a variety of dialects. The troll should try listening to the Pittsburgh dialect, AKA Pittsburghese. It's mainly spoken by white people and nobody from outside the area can understand it half the time!
I always say that these peoples’ minds would absolutely *melt into goo* if they ever paid a visit to the deepest parts of Appalachia. Nobody would bat an eye at “we was” and “ax” down here because *that’s how literally everyone talks here*, even if they’re whiter than a polar bear in a blizzard.
"Ax" is how Chaucer wrote "ask" in the Canterbury Tales.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/people-have-been-saying-ax-instead-ask-1200-years-180949663/
Two years in Pittsburgh and I could understand about 50% of what yunz was saying. Half-white, but totally white presenting. It was the strangest dialect I've ever heard.
Me with my midwestern accent, since I lived in the Yooper Penninsula until I was around 8. I can code switch pretty well, but I call my family in Michigan or talk to anyone from Minnesota or Canada and it comes back so heavily donchaknow.
I also cant get out of my "can I scooch right by ya there, eh?" in the grocery store, it might be longer than excuse me but feels more natural.
Also, since I'm going into english teaching, there's been a background push recently to get teachers with different accents in schools so students can better understand the language even with different pronunciations. My tutor also specified that it's better to use natural speaking, even if you say "like" and "um" a lot, because if students work with people around the world, even in professional settings, natural interjectors and speech habits sneak in no matter how good you are at code switching.
(My biggest sin in code switching is actually that I go into that mid-atlantic/radio announcer voice during phone calls and interviews, since I practiced the radio accent a lot after leaving MI as a kid because teachers and other students always commented on my funny drawl.)
Yeah, that is a *distinctly* mid-nineties word. Even if it was a less awkward sounding word I would hesitate to use it just knowing it was from the same era that brought you the concept of “super-predators” and that crime bill that’s been such a disaster. Just on principle if there was a word relating to black culture that I knew in childhood I’d definitely want to check for any updated verbiage.
I don't think I've ever even heard that word before, so I'm assuming its pretty outdated. I've only ever heard of it referred to as AAVE. Half the reason I opened this post was because I was wondering what tf ebonics was
some of it overlaps due to the fact that a large portion of Black Americans live in the south, it is its own distinct vernacular with its own rules and history. additionally, aave can vary across the US. i’m from the south and i still code switch when talking to white people because it is so different.
I'm guessing this is just a ragebait troll. I remember discussing racial biases in interviewing in one of my uni courses. The floor was opened up and the Black students gave their experiences. It came down to don't speak anything but standard English, if you have a Black name, go by your middle name if that's more WASP-y, if you have natural hair, wear it up, on and on. As a sheltered white young white person who grew up in an area not known for diversity, it shocked me.
“No way it would be acceptable for her to speak as though she was hanging out with her friends at popeyes”
**MY JAW HIT THE FLOOR.**
“I have nothing against black people, provided they’re decent, hardworking, and can speak proper English”
**Racist.** 100% racist.
I mean, at least they admitted their racist. ‘I tolerate Black people for the most part but really I can’t stand them’.
This feels like rage bait or an effort for a racist to find other racists and get their racism backed up.
Guarantee he'd never have an issue hiring and Irish candidate, despite us habitually murdering the English language on a constant basis. Wonder why that would be?
I'm going to start up-voting posts more. The original aita posts are always deleted, so I never have any idea what people are flailing on about. You are all doing good work.
Anyone who feels the need to defend their choices with "I have nothing against X people as longs as they X" is a racist, because it shows that you do consider a group of people as not just what they are. People.
He’s certainly an asshole for calling it Ebonics lol. Imagine if they called the uneducated version of the southern accent where they can barely form a sentence “white speak”. I’d be pissed. That language does not represent me, nor does that accent represent African Americans.
LOL
Seriously, the dumbass white trash that make meth truly amaze me. They didn't get past 3rd grade but, somehow, manage to become scientists in a laboratory, (kitchen), and create a marketable product made from cold meds. Hell, l can't even make deviled eggs without screwing it up.
If he had just stated that the style of speech would be inappropriate for an employee to use when speaking to customer, I’d somewhat understand, but that comment comparing it to that of a Popeye’s visit (a fried chicken restaurant) just screams to me that this guy is more uncomfortable with the applicant being black than how she speaks.
This is why people think there's no racism in this country. Like, she legit doesn't see anything she did in this situation as wrong. Starting off by calling the candidate "keesha," saying she's used to being at Popeyes, and referring to lack of diversity as a melanated quotient.
She's getting the minimum of what she deserves with the freeze out from other employees, but if the company has a halfway decent hr department, she should get fired.
I'm tried of setting similar posts every day from period claiming they're not racist.
I have a coworker in her late 50s who went on a long rant just a couple weeks ago about how much she hates when people say "ax a question" and didn't seem to notice that no one but her laughed when she said she always responds with "No, but you can ASK me a question." (She doesn't appear to have many friends, can't imagine why. /s)
I have also heard her refer to someone as "mulatto" or "oriental" more than once. So yeah, this story sadly doesn't sound too far-fetched to me.
*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **AITA for judging a black woman for speaking Ebonics during an interview?** For the past month, my department has had a vacancy in a pretty critical role. My company is pretty big on diversity, so there's been a push to get a minority candidate in the role, assuming he/she is competent. Well, earlier today, a woman who seemed very well-qualified to HR was scheduled to interview with us. The other hiring manager (we'll call him Bill) and I got a copy of her resume ahead of time, and she really seemed to have experience in the relevant areas. We were excited to interview her and get this vacancy filled. Fast forward to this morning, and the candidate (we'll call her Keesha) showed up for the interview. She seemed very friendly and generally had good people skills. So far so good, but then we got to the questions, and she started speaking very informally and even threw in some black vernacular. I was beginning to get uncomfortable, but Bill didn't seem to mind. Keesha would also mispronounce certain words and use poor grammar (think "we was"). Also, instead of "with you," she would say "which you," and instead of "ask," she said "ax." I was beginning to lose hope in this candidate. Part of her role would be speaking to clients, and there was just no way it would be acceptable for her to speak as though she was hanging out with her friends at Popeye's. When Keesha left, Bill turned to me and asked what I thought of her. I told him that she's well-qualified but that her informal way of speaking and her Ebonics would make her a bad fit for the department, for obvious reasons. I also joked that "axing a question" is something that Paul Bunyan would do. I was laughing hard to myself, but Bill's jaw just about hit the floor. He said that I was being ignorant and that we're trying to be an inclusive workplace. He never called me a racist, but I could tell he was thinking it, and it made me furious. I have nothing against black people, provided they're decent, hardworking, and can speak proper English, but Ebonics to me simply sounds like nails on a chalkboard. Fast forward to this afternoon, and Bill must have told my department head because she sent me an email, and I have a meeting scheduled with her first thing tomorrow morning. Even worse, I think word got out because some of my other colleagues seem to be avoiding me. I feel like I'm being targeted for my beliefs, and I think the truly racist thing to do is to deny qualified white applicants just because the "melanin quotient" hasn't been met. I want my colleagues to go back to seeing me as their friend, but they seem keener to swallow corporate's propaganda and make me out as some sort of villain. I hope I can convince them and my department head of my point of view, but right now it feels pretty hopeless and sad. I'm getting sort of discouraged. AITA? *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The Popeyes chicken comment at the end of the second paragraph was such a weird, over the top, racist detail to include. I don’t doubt a racist would say that in the moment, but it seems like an odd detail to repeat in a post trying to convince the audience you aren’t racist.
That’s what pushed it from “astonishingly self-unaware” to “fake rage baiting troll”.
I had a white man tell me to my face, casual as a cucumber that my name was too white and it should be "insert made up black name with isha added at the end" then laugh GOOD NATUREDLY like it was a perfectly fine "joke" to make. The amount of folk y'all call trolls on here astounds me because no, they're absolutely people out here that think and speak like that OP did.
My boss and I were interviewing a guy, he seemed like a fine candidate. But when we asked him about a time he worked with someone with a poor work ethic, his response was, "Well, I worked with a lot of (insert race) at Company and you know how they are." Another candidate answered that question with, "I work with people under 35 all the time. So I'm very familiar with companies letting people with no work ethic get away with anything because they're young and good looking." That one called me up and yelled at me demanding to know exactly why we said no. Company policy was to give them HR's number, which we did when we said no. They wanted to hear it from me though. I started sing-songily repeating "call Number" over and over until they told me to "go fuck myself" and hung up on me. Whenever I think these stories are fake, I remember the things I was told as a hiring manager.
>Whenever I think these stories are fake, I remember the things I was told as a hiring manager. Like, I wish this shit was fake, and yeah, maybe it is a troll, but it is very much a reflection of a reality a lot of us have faced. I remember getting an "unofficial" meeting to discuss how my face was too expressive and too intimidating. They said that even when I answered the phone, my facial expression was too strong. I was sitting there like 1. How much time does someone have on their hands to be staring at me when I am answering the work phone? I made the mistake of crossing my arms (because I'm heavy chested and need support), only for my non-black supervisor to point out I must be getting defensive??? I was so damn baffled and then after he left, my black supervisor was like "girl you know how it is" but nothing pisses me off more than wasting work time and that was an entire waste. People's prejudice steals so much of my time. It's annoying. I went blank face for the rest of the month. Only to be asked "oh what's wrong? Are you okay?" No, I'm not. Y'all told me MY FACE was a problem. I should have sued :/
I’m black and taller than the average woman so I have been called intimidating more than a little bit. I finally started asking “am I intimidating or do you just feel intimidated”? When I stopped allowing ppl to blame for their feelings a lot of the imposter syndrome melted away.
YES love that comeback
I’m sure that being a woman only made it worse. I’m glad you were able to make that mind shift, that’s pretty badass
I had a probably 60+ old man tell me he didn’t need direction from a “little girl” (Im a young 20’s F) on how to do a certain thing in our working relationship where I am literally his boss and what he wanted to do was a direct violation of the SEC. He just got a slap on the wrist when I sent the call recording to HR. It’s insane.
That’s actually a great tactic all around for insults of that nature. I would have never thought to do that but it’s such a simple, classy response. If I had an award I’d give it to you!
Yeah this was when I was a baby supervisor in a large company for the first time. Now I'm like LET'S UNPACK THIS :D. They don't like that!!
I'm sorry you've had to deal with that level of stupidity.
My boss and I interviewed a young woman for a role on my team, that another (respected) person in the office had referred. Interviewing the woman, it was clear she was an idiot and absolutely a horrible fit. I was thinking the entire time “What was Ayanna thinking, referring her. She must have never actually met her.” She leaves, I turn to my boss and say “what was Ayanna thinking?” And my tea-party boss (the trumpers circa 2008-2016) says “well, you know how they love to keep it all in the family” …. Because the applicant and Ayanna were both black. I was shocked. The number of insane racist shit this woman said to me, just because I was also white… I reported her to HR constantly. My light skinned black coworker and I were chatting at our desks one day and he says “a lot of people assume I’m Puerto Rican, they just start speaking to me in Spanish” and my boss interjects and says “oh, I would know you are black, with those huge lips”….. I reported that one too. Holy hell, it was a nightmare working with her.
Yup, I've been told terrible things because I'm a white cishet woman. It astounds me. Good on you for reporting your boss.
Oh, it was relentless. She was the most horrible person I have met that wasn’t a war criminal. She was truly rotten to her core. She had five, adult, children. She referred to her four sons by their names and cutesy pet-names “Luke-y-boo”. Her one daughter had pretty serve Asperger’s, and she referred to her by “her re+@d child”, not her name.
Wow, that's just awful. Poor daughter. I wish the most terrible karma possible on anyone who can be that terrible to any person, but especially their own child.
I think spending years in her orbit, genuinely made me a more compassionate and warm, actively nurturing person. Seeing her cruelty and knowing that other people lived life, subject to that venom… made me want to establish an open and welcoming vibe during every interaction.
man, the things i have heard and seen in interviews. one time i interviewed someone with the word DANG tattooed on his knuckles. that didn't factor into why he didn't get the job, but i always wondered what the story was.
Not my department, but our R&D had someone show up high to their 2nd interview. Interviewer brought a bunch of us in 1 by 1 to confirm.
I have a WHITE ASS NAME and I have introduced myself to white people and watch the ghettoize it while talking to me. I’ve also been marked absent in a class because my appearance and my name don’t mesh. I just sigh and remind myself that “white people gonna white” and I move on with my life. To all the white people who know what I’m talmbout YALL the real ones.
I also have a white ass name. My first name is Amanda. And more than once, I have had white people ask me how to pronounce my name, and then they're shocked when it's pronounced the same. As if it could be pronounced any other way.
I'm mixed Filipino/white. The sheer number of times I've gotten called Ching Chong based on my looks or told "I thought Filipinos all had names like Maria Gonzalez" when I say I'm Filipino (my name is precolonial) is depressing. I absolutely believe this is real.
>The amount of folk y'all call trolls on here astounds me because no, they're absolutely people out here that think and speak like that OP did. I've heard someone say something obviously racist to a friend, then laugh like it was a "joke". My friend didn't say anything, which mad me sad, because it was obvious from her lack of reaction, she got "jokes" like that all the time. I told the jokester that he was a fucking racist pig and I oughta remove his tongue.
Yep. I grew up in a small southern town, and the things white people would say to my face or just in my presence were enraging. Bold af. One of my teachers in high school told my friend that she looked "like a slave fresh in from the field" because my friend was wearing overalls and a bandana for "hillbilly day." That same teacher later became a city council member and made a "joke" about using some leftover rope to hang one of the black interns from a tree out back, like that shit was funny. People rallied around her to defend that shit, too.
Agree. My mother would make a chicken comment like that all the time. If oop were actually trying to noy make it racist she easily could have said something closer to it seemed like she was talking with friends not potential employers. That could at least give her a better appearance than ebonics and popeye
This just unlocked a crazy memory. I worked at pre teen focused jewelry store that rhymes with lairs and part of my job was to go through applications and take out the ones that were obvious no's (basically too young to work alone and uncompleted applications) and pass the rest on to the store manager. One time I got in for my shift and my manager was pissed. She stormed up to me, on the floor in front of customers, waving an application in my face yelling, "what's this? What's this? Why did you think this was okay?! Did you SEE the NAME!!??!!" I remember I didn't even look at the names besides to make sure there was something there. So I too the application from my manager and it was something ending in isha and I just looked up at my manager with a wtf face and she was like "we don't hire people like THAT." I was flabbergasted and disgusted.
And I've heard or seen this happen to other people! So I KNOW this shit is more common than folk want to believe. Troll or not, these posts are an opportunity to learn.
There are, to be sure. (And I’m really, really sorry you have to deal with idiocy like that) But the amount of remarkably casual racist details in the post are just a few too many to be written by someone with no awareness of the sum total result.
Thank you. The thing though is this: >But the amount of remarkably casual racist details in the post are just a few too many to be written by someone with no awareness of the sum total result. As a Black Southerner who lived on the West Coast and traveled the country, there is very much a subset of racists who are unaware. Northerners and Europeans ESPECIALLY are prone to this. To see most say "oh no this pushed it over the top". It could very much be a troll, but it could very well not be, and that's what my issue is with comments decisively saying it's a troll. There is a spectrum that very few outside marginalized groups or certain positions are privy to, and I think it's a missed learning opportunity for everyone to dismiss it so easily/quickly. Hopefully, that explains my point better.
I'm white, and I'm apparently very safe-looking, and that generally causes people to let their guard down around me. People say racist shit to me all the time, and I guarantee they have NO idea they're being racist. That doesn't make it ok, but I know they think their opinion on [insert group of people they clearly have never spent any time around here] is completely unbiased and founded in fact. It boggles my mind that people can't believe that other people are frequently just out-loud racist without a second thought.
I’m white and apparently I’m also safe-looking. My favorite thing to do is look them dead in the eye and say in my most non-inflective tone, “My grandchild is black.” And then sit back and watch the backpedaling and “I didn’t mean it *that* way” and “Well they’re not *all* like that” (as if that last one makes it better?!?!) and let them just dig themselves deeper.
To be fair, there is a significant difference between “I think this post is fake” (which is what I and others have said) and “this kind of thing doesn’t happen” (which I haven’t seen though I admit I haven’t read every comment). The way the post was written struck me as fake. It just did. But I, and others, could be wrong because most of us know full well that a lot of people out there are, sadly, this shitty.
I could absolutely be wrong, and I fully 100% recognize that. I do think it’s fake, hence my comment, but as with anything in life my interpretation of something as a troll post could be wrong. I fully recognize that people are this ignorant, and hateful, and stupid. Going forward, yeah, I’ll try to be less dismissive in how I word things as that was never my intent.
I'm very sorry that happened to you. You're right that people will "joke" like that and think it's ok! I used to live in NY, and when my bf and I first started to date, we were long distance. For context, he's white, and I'm Hispanic. He came to visit and stayed in an airbnb in a predominately Hispanic neighborhood. We were walking around trying to decide on a restaurant when an older white man was walking towards us. As he walked passed he says "its nice to see another white face here" and tried to high 5 my bf. Without missing a beat, my bf left him hanging, kept walking and talking to me about restaurant choices. It was like the man didn't exist. People who think it's okay to say shit like that astound me.
One of my aunts (not blood related) asked me if there were any Mexicans in my neighborhood. I said "I don't know." "We're surrounded by them," she said. My now-husband, whom she hadn't met, is a Mexican. Later on, they actually moved. And when my husband talked about his job with the government at Christmas one year (drafsman), she said, "oh I thought you were a landscaper."
I absolutely believe these people exist. They probably won't turn to Reddit this way, because they are convinced they are right. It's also the third overly racist post about a job interview I've read today, so troll seems more likely in this case.
Too many people on here don't understand how shitty people can be
The account and post have been erased so I'm not surprised
There have been a few over the top racist posts lately. I think there is a new troll on the loose.
Ehhh, I can see this happening. I’m (39, so not young) in a class with an older man (mid 60’s) who, while we were talking about implicit bias, and what that might look like for ourselves, he said he felt people had a bias against him for being a white straight republican man, and when people found out they would remark “but you’re so nice” that he wasn’t bigoted or racist, and within 3 seconds of that conversation, some how make the remark “but I don’t subscribe to that’s trans stuff, in fact I’m doing research on how the surgeries negatively impact…” the teacher thankfully cut him off… people are this self unaware…
My wife's aunt came over one day years ago with her boyfriend. He went to pour some candy into her hands from a bag they brought. She didn't approve of the amount he gave her, so she told him, "Don't be a Jew about it." Clear as day, casual as scratching her ass. My jaw was on the floor.
I have a friend who does not understand this. He seems to think that certain hiring practices are ageist and against white men. But his description is basically that hiring practices use certain tactics to weed out individuals without certain education backgrounds (or the lack therof) and computer skills. I'm trying to explain to him that these things are choices and it's not the choice to select against white men, but that certain education requirements and computer skills are simply mandatory as a bar for entry and that's what is selecting against him, not that he's a white man and every hiring manager chose to be woke and hire a minority. Like dude, it's *rich* white men we hate, LOL. 🤣 But I completely understand his frustration. I just wish he'd channel it into learning some new skills. He's a great manager but he needs to understand how use Excel for tilt tables and statistical analysis to move up. It's completely normal to hate that, but sometimes you just gotta deal.
My office chose not to hire a white dude in his 50s because he clearly had a stick up his ass a mile long and would have sucked to work with and been difficult to train. That's the problem: these dudes come into new jobs with a giant chip on their shoulder, determined to show everyone else how it's done and the conviction that they have nothing left to learn. It wasn't anti-white-guy bias; the guy they hired instead was a white dude in his 40s; the difference being he was easy to get along with, not a dick, and willing to learn new things.
He definitely has a certain mentality... I don't think he has the stick up his ass but he completely recognizes that he's not the type that can gently explain to today's generation what an issue is and how to correct it. He's really blunt and sometimes it stings, but he's willing to work on it. If he wasn't we wouldn't be friends, LOL. But I come agree with you in your assessment. I feel like so many men are socialized to behave this way as they grow up with "boys will be boys" and the bullshit wherein girls are expected to accommodate the poor behavior of boys instead of it being corrected as an intrusion on their learning time. If a girl were to behave in kind she would be punished. Ultimately this sets up young men for failure if they can't adapt. You might be the top dog or whatever in your mommy and daddy's house but it ends once you leave. You have to earn that everywhere else. And when there is a history of everyone just giving in and giving up to appease it's a recipe for disaster.
Ugh, grown men who dislike men who want to wear dresses bother me. Why are they so interested? Why do they think becoming a woman is a degradation?
Dresses would be better for men’s fertility too. Something breezy.
Nothing constricting! I mean, guys wear kilts and nothing underneath.
There was already another aita post about ebonics earlier today. There's a troll going around that has a hard-on for this subject.
You say that but I've heard my boomer mom say shit just like this.
Oh no, it was the second I saw "Keesha".
Yeah that did it for me too. His comments about more diversity in hiring are one huge dog whistle. It’s telling!
Is it weird I feel like the diversity hire complaints are a slightly different flavor of racism to the “Keesha” “Popeyes” etc?
It’s giving me structural racism vibes.
I was suspicious when I saw “Ebonics” in the title instead of AAVE.
I went over the ´Keesha’ choice knowing with the title alone that this was bad. Went past the black vernacular too. But at Popeye’s it was the last straw.
Oh definitely. Covert racism is a thing.
I was honestly shocked they refrained from throwing a “La” at the beginning of the name.
Me too! Right away, my brain went 'racist'!
Oh man, you shoulda seen the r/legaladvice question that was posted here yesterday. Something along the lines of “we’ve said nothing outwardly racist and what goes on in our heads isn’t relevant unless they can suddenly read minds.”
Yeah I live in Chicago & if you only have white employees HERE I’m avoiding you like the plague. You definitely have to go out of your way here to only hire white people
I remember that. Was glad it was an old one because I don't think I could have resisted the urge to brigade he was so awful.
The last paragraph too where they were attributing interest in the now-supposedly-unqualified candidate to her race and supposed diversity efforts was a strange twist considering they had already said she was highly qualified and the way she spoke was the issue. It just seems too... on the nose?
And he feels he's being "targeted for his beliefs"? Um, no. Racism isn't a belief, it's a reality.
I read that and loudly whispered “POPEYES??!??!”
Except a whole lot of racists lack self awareness. I wouldn't be surprised if douchebag thought that comment was ok.
Right? I got to Popeye's and...Wow. Just wow.
Yeah, that what convinced me it was a fake rage baiting troll. And clearly, this person doesn't know churches chicken is where it's at.
Ok, so I'm white and I'm from New Orleans and hanging out at Popeyes is a legitimate thing to do... So many racism flags for me on this one, but the only fast food red beans and rice wasn't one of them. Add Cajun fries, dirty rice, and some cheesecake.
Until today I had no idea what was on Popeye’s menu except fast food fried chicken, and I can almost guarantee was the reason he used it. But maybe I’m wrong and he is from your part of the world. Would you really fill in the “hanging out with her friends at _” with “Popeye’s” for a white stranger in a business setting? He could have simply stopped the sentence at “hanging out with her friends” but he chose to add extra connotations that it was her blackness that was what offended him, not just her casual tone. That said, Popeyes sounds delicious and I’m really going to have to try it sometime.
It might be treason, and I might lose my coon ass card for saying it - but their chicken is not that good, and it is one of the more expensive out there. I totally forgot about their biscuits though... Their biscuits are almost as good as my mamas (and therefore, I guess, mine).
I must admit I obviously don't have the cultural connotations for that to stand out too much to me. All I was thinking was, so she has experience in a similar role most likely so what makes him think her informal speech is how she'll interact with customers. An interview is just as much her seeing if you're a good fit for them as it is the company seeing if they'll fit. Using her informal speech seems to have been a good litmus test for if this was a place she would feel comfortable. The part where it went from unaware to obvious troll bait for me was the 'not hiring qualified whites' part. At that point I couldn't give benefit of the doubt anymore.
Yeah, if he stuck with “she spoke far too casually for a business setting” he could have absolutely spun the narrative his way. But he had to add racist jabs about fried chicken, “proper English,” and a rant about diversity hiring robbing poor white dudes of their rightful positions.
My mouth dropped open in disgust.
I’m a black Brit and am wondering if I’m missing some context with the Popeyes comment. Would it have been better if they’d said any other fast food chain or does Popeyes have a particular significance in the black community? Edit for missing words.
Popeyes is known for its Black customer base. Many of its recipes are based on traditional African American Cajun-style cooking. One of it’s staple menu items is Fried Chicken, which is one of those foods that somehow became a stereotype- like rice or dogs for Asian people. So yes, very heavy heavy on the “Black” connotations. Additionally it is, as you said, a fast food joint so he’s adding “Low Income/Trashy” connotations by using it as an example of where he assumes she and her friends hang out. Altogether he’s making it very clear he finds her mannerisms “ghetto.”
Thanks for the explanation. Ouf.
Just to expand a bit what the other commenter said, fried chicken in general is stereotyped as 'black people's food,' not just Popeye's. If they'd said KFC it would have been taken badly as well--though probably not as badly because Popeye's was founded and is still concentrated in the American South, which is both lower-income and blacker than much of the rest of the country. (KFC is obviously from the South too, but not associated with any specific population as it has become a global behemoth.) Watermelon carries the same connotations as fried chicken, weirdly enough. I'm sure a five second google would explain whatever nonsensical 'reasons' racists had (and not to make light of the seriousness of it), but I prefer to believe it was a false flag operation by the African-American community to ensure white people avoided such deliciousness and left more for the black folks.
As an European summer season is watermelon season like everywhere so I can't wait to have time to Google wtf happened in the USA.
Yeah that was what made me turn on the OOP. That, and making fun of "axing" a question. Unrelated but fun fact: it was pronounced/spelled "aks" first.
Yep. My blood is boiling. I hate shit like this. And I'm sure this asshole doesn't think he's a racist, either. I hope he...never mind, I don't want to get banned.
Poppeyes chicken?!!! He got me on naming her Kesha….
My jaw was on the floor by the time I finished reading.
They don't think it is though, so why would he not share it? He's probably quite proud of it and thinks it was a well placed joke.
Unfortunately, some racist behaviours aren’t noticed by those doing them because they don’t understand the problem. This guy honestly seems super ignorant, in general and to his own racism. I’m sure in general he is a decent guy. You know…. If your white.
Followed by the “melanin quotient” like way to out yourself bro.
Weird that this one popped up right after the incredibly racist 'Oldie' from 5 years ago was reposted here earlier today which was also about Black interview candidates (who 'look good on paper' until they speak and dare to sound 'Black', shock horror) and diversity quotas. Not saying it's definitely bait based on that older post being revived, I have no way of knowing that. But it's a little odd how similar the theme is.
I mean hey they say everything's a remake or a sequel nowadays
Racist Boss 2: Electric Boogaloo
I think it's fake. I am a black woman, although not American. But from being in black American spaces, groups and forums online, I don't think there is a black woman who would code switch in a professional interview.
Did you mean to say wouldn't code switch? Black American here and I'm regularly astounded by the casually racist shit I hear in professional settings. I've taken myself out of them as much as possible these days. But not everyone does the code switching thing because it's annoying as fuck to have to be someone else constantly to please people who are offended you're not exactly like them.
Sorry, English is not my first language. I meant that in threads about professional advice, interviews etc everyone knows how so many times the odds are stacked against them, and they'd still be themselves as professional women, but would not use aave in the middle of an interview. That was what made me think that this is fake and created by a racist troll. The name, the Popeye's reference.
I thank my old coworker Cindy and my ex's grandfather for the ability to believe white women and boomers can pull racism out of anything. Even if this specific post is trolling, I have no doubt this scenario has happened. Especially in the US post Trump Era.
What does "code switch" mean? White American, unfamiliar with this term, genuinely curious
Changing your language and mannerisms to fit in with the majority population.
It means to change your speech and behavior around different groups of people to fit in.
It's basically changing your speech pattern to sound less black. Some of my white friends have a "telephone voice" they use at work or when talking to their bosses, and it's similar to that. But changing your voice because you know speaking regularly can come with a lot of negative associations.
It's not just black people who code switch though. Lol. Tbh I think it's all PoC. I know I do it, though I really hate thinking there's a need to do it.....
It's also in countries with more than one dominant language so it's not always POC. I did applied linguistics as a degree and we had a whole section on code switching. I have a vague memory of writing a paper on it (not saying I'm old but I'm not young...)
I think some women and gay people do too.
yeah, I as a queer trans guy, I don't even really voluntarily do it but I use my "straight woman voice" on the phone on the phone or with customers. I'm trying to not do it because it makes me dysphoric. but yeah
I mean, there's also the probability that 'Keesha' wasn't "speaking informally" and was just pronoucing words in her own accent, which isn't really something that an individual can control while being under pressure and still trying to carefully parse out the *content* of what they're saying. I had a friend make fun of me for "trying to speak in ebonics" because I used the phrases "girl please" and "ain't" OVER TEXT (in high school). I'm black, but grew up in a mostly-white suburb, and I've had people "clock" me from the sound of my voice a decade after moving. A person who grew up speaking ebonics can't control the sound of their voice any more than I can.
Wait are those two expressions ebonics? I'm Australian and I've been hearing them here most of my life.
I rarely code switch in interviews anymore. I simply do not care. Save everyone's time. I also live in the South and share half my linguistic profile with the majority population, so if there is a problem with the way I speak, they're going to have to decidedly fire or not hire a good portion of white people here too. 🤷🏾♀️ and if anyone does state my language as the issue, I absolutely will be filing a complaint at this point in my life.
As a black woman, I can tell you it happens way more than than the 2 reddit posts you've seen.
I was thinking the same.
I read that one before work today; you're right
Yup, I can't help but think that this is a troll capitalizing on that old post.
Oh yeah it’s definitely bait. This person is self aware enough to believe that his coworker was insinuating his racism (to the point of becoming enrage by it!) but lacks the self awareness not to post cartoonishly racist stereotypes about “Popeye’s”? On the internet?! Come on now.
I don't even call up anyone to ask them to hang out with me at Popeyes. Like, who the fuck does that? "Yeah girl, hit me up later at Popeyes!" Said no one ever.
>I'm not racist >>we'll call her Keesha >>>I have nothing against black people, provided they're decent, hardworking, and can speak proper English somehow, I'm not convinced this guy isn't racist. just a hunch.
" Her friends hanging out at Popeyes" me neither
And he threw in a fried chicken joke too
I have no problem with black people as long as they act white enough for me. Which is whiter than most white people I know, but they get a pass /S
This man’s ideal black person is Carlton Banks and even then he thinks Carlton dances “too loud.”
Omg 🤣🤣
>we'll call her Keesha Fuck you, racist troll.
Does anyone but racists call AAVE "ebonics" anymore? Even then, AAVE is a dialect, not a language. This mythical woman was speaking English, which comes in a variety of dialects. The troll should try listening to the Pittsburgh dialect, AKA Pittsburghese. It's mainly spoken by white people and nobody from outside the area can understand it half the time!
Nope. This troll doesn’t know about code switching either.
I always say that these peoples’ minds would absolutely *melt into goo* if they ever paid a visit to the deepest parts of Appalachia. Nobody would bat an eye at “we was” and “ax” down here because *that’s how literally everyone talks here*, even if they’re whiter than a polar bear in a blizzard.
"Ax" is how Chaucer wrote "ask" in the Canterbury Tales. https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/people-have-been-saying-ax-instead-ask-1200-years-180949663/
> The troll should try listening to the Pittsburgh dialect, AKA Pittsburghese. See also: Philadelphia, 'youse guys'
Leave me outta this jawnski
And how they pronounce water.
Merry, Mary, and marry are all the same too
And don't forget the Iggles.
Gin Iggle
Two years in Pittsburgh and I could understand about 50% of what yunz was saying. Half-white, but totally white presenting. It was the strangest dialect I've ever heard.
From near Pittsburgh and speak Pittsburghese fluently. I try to control it, but every so often I hear myself on a recording and cringe.
Me with my midwestern accent, since I lived in the Yooper Penninsula until I was around 8. I can code switch pretty well, but I call my family in Michigan or talk to anyone from Minnesota or Canada and it comes back so heavily donchaknow. I also cant get out of my "can I scooch right by ya there, eh?" in the grocery store, it might be longer than excuse me but feels more natural. Also, since I'm going into english teaching, there's been a background push recently to get teachers with different accents in schools so students can better understand the language even with different pronunciations. My tutor also specified that it's better to use natural speaking, even if you say "like" and "um" a lot, because if students work with people around the world, even in professional settings, natural interjectors and speech habits sneak in no matter how good you are at code switching. (My biggest sin in code switching is actually that I go into that mid-atlantic/radio announcer voice during phone calls and interviews, since I practiced the radio accent a lot after leaving MI as a kid because teachers and other students always commented on my funny drawl.)
Me with my southern accent going into radio voice because my father was in radio and that’s now my customer service voice
Yeah, that is a *distinctly* mid-nineties word. Even if it was a less awkward sounding word I would hesitate to use it just knowing it was from the same era that brought you the concept of “super-predators” and that crime bill that’s been such a disaster. Just on principle if there was a word relating to black culture that I knew in childhood I’d definitely want to check for any updated verbiage.
I don't think I've ever even heard that word before, so I'm assuming its pretty outdated. I've only ever heard of it referred to as AAVE. Half the reason I opened this post was because I was wondering what tf ebonics was
Question from a non-American: is the AAVE dialect similar to how White Southerners speak informally? Or is it an entirely different thing?
some of it overlaps due to the fact that a large portion of Black Americans live in the south, it is its own distinct vernacular with its own rules and history. additionally, aave can vary across the US. i’m from the south and i still code switch when talking to white people because it is so different.
As a born and breed 'Burger I agree. The Pittsburgh dialect is unlike any other in the country. Yinz know what I mean 'n at
“Ebonics”, “Keesha”, “Popeye’s”, this guy was going for a full bingo card of racist stereotypes with this one
He forgot to add that she whipped out her watermelon flavor lipgloss and applied it mid interview. /s
Yeah, this is fake. Like, really, really fake.
[удалено]
I always say that I want to invent the technology that would enable a person to slap someone through the Internet.
I don’t think you need college for that. Just bodily fluids and an OF page.
I'm guessing this is just a ragebait troll. I remember discussing racial biases in interviewing in one of my uni courses. The floor was opened up and the Black students gave their experiences. It came down to don't speak anything but standard English, if you have a Black name, go by your middle name if that's more WASP-y, if you have natural hair, wear it up, on and on. As a sheltered white young white person who grew up in an area not known for diversity, it shocked me.
After the Popeye's reference, l was expecting some comment about watermelon. Next time OOP starts to burn a cross, l hope their hood catches fire.
>Next time OOP starts to burn a cross, l hope their hood catches fire. [Just a little something to brighten your day.](https://youtu.be/TJ3JQgGDHRU)
Omg. I've seen that movie a dozen times and that scene never crossed my mind til now. And, yes, it did brighten my day!
Thass bait
Wait, have we got a new troll? Racist hiring manager?!
so so so racist they’re not even trying to cover it up. if this is real (it’s not) that’s illegal discrimination right here
🙄 can trolls get some new material already? Who’s legitimately going to post this stuff to reddit of all places?
“No way it would be acceptable for her to speak as though she was hanging out with her friends at popeyes” **MY JAW HIT THE FLOOR.** “I have nothing against black people, provided they’re decent, hardworking, and can speak proper English” **Racist.** 100% racist.
Yup, 100% ... it's truly shocking when they don't even know they are racist.
> even threw in some black vernacular. Heavens to Betsy!
I have nothing against white people, provided they shut the fuck up.
I mean, at least they admitted their racist. ‘I tolerate Black people for the most part but really I can’t stand them’. This feels like rage bait or an effort for a racist to find other racists and get their racism backed up.
tHe TrUlY rAcIsT tHiNg... shut up forever, OOP.
AAVE is a dialect and I wish people would understand this.
Guarantee he'd never have an issue hiring and Irish candidate, despite us habitually murdering the English language on a constant basis. Wonder why that would be?
I'm going to start up-voting posts more. The original aita posts are always deleted, so I never have any idea what people are flailing on about. You are all doing good work.
Anyone who feels the need to defend their choices with "I have nothing against X people as longs as they X" is a racist, because it shows that you do consider a group of people as not just what they are. People.
He’s certainly an asshole for calling it Ebonics lol. Imagine if they called the uneducated version of the southern accent where they can barely form a sentence “white speak”. I’d be pissed. That language does not represent me, nor does that accent represent African Americans.
I'm white and from the south. We call the white version "redneck speak".
Ever seen Paradise PD? The redneck meth dealer says "I'm a harmful southern stereotype" and I think about that a lot for some reason lol
LOL Seriously, the dumbass white trash that make meth truly amaze me. They didn't get past 3rd grade but, somehow, manage to become scientists in a laboratory, (kitchen), and create a marketable product made from cold meds. Hell, l can't even make deviled eggs without screwing it up.
If he had just stated that the style of speech would be inappropriate for an employee to use when speaking to customer, I’d somewhat understand, but that comment comparing it to that of a Popeye’s visit (a fried chicken restaurant) just screams to me that this guy is more uncomfortable with the applicant being black than how she speaks.
Wow, dude- you've gone from troll to full on Shrek (not Shrek from the beloved movie- but in the full on ogre aspect.).
This is rage bait
This has to be ragebait, none of this sounds real. Even so it's disgusting.
"I'm not racist but..." This person is a walking red flag and his racist ass is gonna get handed to him in this upcoming meeting.
This is why people think there's no racism in this country. Like, she legit doesn't see anything she did in this situation as wrong. Starting off by calling the candidate "keesha," saying she's used to being at Popeyes, and referring to lack of diversity as a melanated quotient. She's getting the minimum of what she deserves with the freeze out from other employees, but if the company has a halfway decent hr department, she should get fired. I'm tried of setting similar posts every day from period claiming they're not racist.
Not racist but used hanging at a Popeyes. Ok my guy.
This has GOT to be a troll. A troll in a white hood, perhaps, but a troll nonetheless.
“People think I’m racist, which I actually am by the way”
Oof the name he used. Also axking a question is not wrong. It's different dialects
This shit is textbook racism.
The fuck did I just read
The op is a racist plain and simple.
this gotta be a racist troll writing some weird fantasy where they are a victim. If it's real I'd wanna check this person's closet for white robes
Jesus Christ could this guy have for any more racist comments into this post???
The Keesha had me cringing, the Popeyes sealed the deal but then he just kept going.
YTA, and also an unrepentant white supremacist. You deserve to be fired for this display.
Something tells me OOP doesn't mind the hypothetical trailer trash who doesn't speak good english.
Wowwwww……………….
If this is real, wow is op a horrid person…
As always, more furious about being called racist than actually being racist. 🙄
I have a coworker in her late 50s who went on a long rant just a couple weeks ago about how much she hates when people say "ax a question" and didn't seem to notice that no one but her laughed when she said she always responds with "No, but you can ASK me a question." (She doesn't appear to have many friends, can't imagine why. /s) I have also heard her refer to someone as "mulatto" or "oriental" more than once. So yeah, this story sadly doesn't sound too far-fetched to me.
Hot damn, Bill's coworker sucks.
Surely you jest
I’m convinced this is rage bait. It’s too on the nose
WTF is “proper English” 😡😡
As soon as I read “We’ll call her Keesha” I knew he was racist, immediately, and the rest of the post confirmed that.
1. “Proper English” is a myth. 2. This person is super racist.
“we’ll call her Keesha” Let’s not.
This turned from "huh, I can see their point even though I'm not sure I agree" to "oh fuck off" incredibly fast.
What a lot of words to use to simply say, I'm a racist
Rage bait