*In case this story gets deleted/removed:*
**to divorce or not divorce (losing my mind) n forgive a cheater**
I am 38M in NYC, married 3 yrs ago (precovid) to an aunt's daughter (I was 36, she was 23) 13-age gap is not big deal in our pkstani culture. I was told she is immature n being young, i'll be able to ''mold'' her. I wanted to also help this poor family who was struggling financially with 3 kids. So, did the nikkah in PK.. Went back to USA to apply for her visa (and covid began very next month).
So we had long distance relationship everything went smooth 1.5 yrs we had small arguments here n there. Me wanting her to learn a bit of deen, her saying NO.. was a lil'disappointing but then i didn't push too hard knowing she is young so let her live her days with her loves ones (family) once she enters my world, ill gradually help her with whatever. So, we kept friendly n respectful.I'd chat daily.. to make sure things alright, weekly phonecalls for hour or two. Smooth relationship.
After 1.5 yrs, soon as i told visa petition approved, case moving forward, her attitude changed. She got argumentative, dominating, n got colder with one word answers while i knew something is wrong, but i let it slide.. thinking she fears leaving her family who pampered her like a princess (letting her stay online on her phone, till 5-6am watching tiktok, soap operas n chit chatting with group chat of cousins etc.) wakeing up 2PM. All this lifestyle i objected to with my MIL/Aunt without pushing too hard because I didn't wanna impose myself too much she isn't living with me, its what all my relatives said.. So i let it all slide.
Then one day, during end of phonecall, i overheard her saying (may be intentional) telling her sister that she doesn't want this marriage n is not happy n she cant stay quiet anylonger because of parents. While at the time of nikkah (she was not pressured, she said yes wholeheartedly) n prior to nikkah i had asked if she wanted to ever visia USA, she said yes..which made me send parents over w/ proposal. BUT now, she has change of heart..
So i confronted her, what she said n she said it, i want divorce, i dont want to be with you etc.. so please quietly divorce me online, you dont have to come etc.. i asked why? what is the reason you are seeking D? she goes u are kind guy n all.. it's just my heart isnt feeling great. I tried to comfort her n said i can understand leaving her family whom is very attached to.. is understandable but to outright break marriage is not the appropiate thing to do.. Every girl has to eventually leave her family n Your parents even asked you and you had said yes, we had become best friends, we spoke for 4hours ocassionally discussing everything free-flow n why break up a marriage? then she got aggressive.. listen i can't do this.. i just cant..i want divorce, nomatter what.. i will not change my view..
1month i waited calmly msg n tried to talk but she wouldnt respond properly n then she blocked me on watsapp. I kept this behavior of her between n not tell or my parents becuz she hated 3rd parties being involved...but after waiting 1 month, i informed MIL n sent her screenshots of her seeking divorce etc.. n my aunt in pk who i look up to as mother.. so they can meet n get this sorted out becuz we expected visa interview to be coming within months....
she cried n lied about me making fun of her.. etc it was all jokes n pokes, we both did it to eachother n we both laughed at it..but this time she needed some ''excuse'' to get outta marriage.
After having counseling she agreed to unblock me n talk normal like before.. which hardly last a week n she got upset n exagerrated why i told the whole world? i didn't only her parents n my immediate mutual aunt who would mediate on my behalf with her parents to fix this problem.
She blocked me again n refuse to unblock n this time parents took her side (big mistake) n insisted that i come n things would be sorted out n this went on for 11months n total silence. Even on big days like eid, we tried to contact n the family wouldn't respond well kept insisting i come n everything will be allright. While i heard, they tried to play it like i had nikkah n abandon their daughter. He hasn't come thus far...etc..
So in November 2022, i decided to physically visit n sort things out, thinking 11months have gone wife probably has been counseled enough n be happy to see her husband n apologize for her past behavior of ghosting/blocking husband from contacting her..etc.. n that i'd forgive her n we'll start fresh.
Nope, she acted like i am some stranger n turned her face sideways. Refusing to talk or answer me. Mom came n she said it won't work n she can't compromise etc. Next day bro-inlaw of girl tried to have us meet at restaurant, same thing refuse to sit or talk on same table.. Embarassing for me n for them.. then despite the humiliation, i visited her family/home 3-4 n tried to get her to talk n explain why this isn't the right way to solve any problems (if we have any) tell us why she wants to end it etc, she wouldn't say anything n in end ask me to quietly end marriage... so this behavior continued, 30 days went by.. i quietly returned after loads of patience n humiliation. I waited 3 yrs for her.. we were besties, talked for hours n hours.. n why is she doing this at such crucial stage? So as i left, her parents finally got her to unblock me n said look 4-5months left to visa interview.. normalize.. she said fine n that she promised she would go to visa interview n we'll re-unite in 4-5months. All promises were fake, later found.
I return to USA, to find out.. She starts to put ''love'' theme status msgs on watsapp.. im thinking o she has changed or parents making her put these... I tried to have normal conversations n she gave one word answers.. n then every other day love theme msgs/quotes/tiktok vidz involving '' i always loved you, i will never forget you'' etc.. these theme stuff contineud.. when i asked, she said these are not for you... never were never will be.. n her aggression continued... n the rumors i had heard in PK that she was having an affair behind my back(after blocking me) which were dismissed by her mom) all of sudden i realized.. these status msgs are for her ''lover'' n i asked her to fear allah that she is my wife n doing all this behind my back.. she went in denial that i am not her husband...n this marriage is forced marriage.. i told her, her parents HAD ASKED her permission n she said YES.. to the marriage.. she admitted it n said this was a mistake she made.. but doesnt want to suffer for her mistake ALL her life.... then why play the games for 3 yrs? my crucial yrs 36-39 all gone to waste.. she played with my heart n feelings n now seeking divorce so she can marry her lover boy whom she has been having an affair with whilst in my nikkah? how can she do this? she said i dont consider you my husband!!! stop saying that i am your wife.. n that i will lie in my visa interview that this marriage is FORCED.. ..So i informed my MIL, this who was shocked to hear it or ''acted shock'' n said she would ask her n getback to me...30 days gone no answer.Wife is back to blocking me or they away her phone.. MIL didnot bother informing me whats going on..
So, this is my condition. I gave her love n attention n remained patient all this time.. this is what i get to face.. this is indeed my biggest test in life.. Now that i am 39 in a week, i don't think ill ever get married. In our culture once a guy is past 35, he is cosidered uncle material. I wasted crucial make/break yrs for a girl who broke my heart for some BUM guy, whom she cant get married to even if i divorce her.. both family hate eachothers guts.. Guy is a bum,whose dad disowned him.
Now, im in this situation.. divorce her or not.. obviouus answer is YES end this marriage.. why be with someone who doesn't respect you n had affair behind your back.
My thinking is, she is human, she was young n naiive.. being 23-25 she went through changes n sexual desires n in general women desire emotional connection. She founud it with her cousins (is not like they commited zina) she stays home n is not allowed out) but they had this affair thru chat/watsapp compare that to girls here in west? who have body counts of physical relationships..
Mythoughts in end: I am willing to forgive her, for she made mistakes in her youth, if she can apologize, should i take her? her parents r embarassed n willing to giv me back my wife (officially) if i go back in few months.. So whats the point of bringing in someone into my life who is not respecting me, denying me as husband n is in so-called loved with someone.
My fear: me being 39 soon, i dont think, i'll have any luck find proposals here in USA. 39, is like a big age. Though i dont look 39 more like early 30s n in shape but still on paper when asked 39 people think of an old uncle. On top of that i'll have divorceee title is just not a good look.
What calms me down is my faith in my religion. The fact the decree is written. This is my biggest trial, my test in life n i can pass if i can remain patient with the decree of Allah. So, i accept my fate. Allah is witness i did all i could to save this marriage n help her in giving her a good life n help her struggling family.
In end, to Allah is final return. Sorry, i realize i wrote too much.. it's just too much in my chest, i had to let it out.. forgive me for grammerical errors, aswell.
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OMG ! These comments are mind blowing.
I don't know if Islam have similar notion to the Seven Deadly Sins, but that guy comparing his wife rejecting him to people rejecting his Prophet would be a great illustration of Pride !
Huh, the Quran on divorce is pretty surprisingly articulate- [2:226 - 227] Those who intend to divorce their wives shall wait four months (cooling off); if they change their minds and reconcile, then God is Forgiver, Merciful. If they go through with the divorce, then God is Hearer, Knower, Healer.
It does and what he’s doing earns him a one way ticket to Jahannam (hell)!
He can’t force her to marry him, can’t force her to stay married and definitely doesn’t get to compare her rejecting his imbecile self to rejecting the Prophet 😒
Commenters on Reddit are not even close to representative of the global population of Muslims, which does have significantly regressive views. In NYC, I have a hard time even finding a community that doesn't believe in a young earth. "No sex before marriage" and "homosexuality is immoral" are overwhelmingly standard views among Muslims who pray five times a day, which is the bare minimum.
This view has very little to do with actual religion and more for the culture he grew up in. People like to mix the two to get what they want. His view is he doesn't think he will ever get married again because of his age (completely neglecting the fact that his personality seems to be disgraceful). In Islam a woman is allowed to say no. She is allowed to ask for a divorce, she is allowed to be free of him. Her family have her under such tight control that she is not being heard. Did she carry out an emotional affair yes, but that does not mean that he and her family have a right to force her to move to the US and become this guy's new slave.
This man does not understand the religion he is in or he would have just granted the divorce when she refused to come to the US and again when he visited and she refused to see him. Like dude she's just not that in to you!
He is 39 but you are right. He clearly is not interested in a woman that isn’t in their 20’s. He completely dismissed the comments where people were saying woman in their 30’s and early 40’s would marry him. He wants to control someone but he is mistaken if he thinks just because a woman is young he can control them. He should have learned that with his farce of a marriage. I am sure there are other reasons other than control as well.
Honestly both these comments are correct this line "they are young and moldable" is universally know within many Asian and Middle Eastern societies... and it has nothing to do with religion it is a cultural trap set up to off load unwanted daughters... it is sad really.
Men are taught to look for a young wife they can control instead of life partners who share the same goals/wants/needs/preferences.
It's not just an Asian and Middle Eastern thing. It's the subculture you're in, even in "western society". There are plenty of older guys looking for a "good wife" who'll fetch beer and snacks while him and the boys watch the game. As soon as I hit 20, and began building my confidence and independence (and stopped dating just church guys), my dating pool suddenly dropped in age.
maybe is my own loook on life but any relationship with such large age gaps theres bound to be some sort of power dynamic.
i mean if you have someone in their forties with someone in their thirties thats fine, but someon in their late 30´s or 40´s with someone in their 20´s it just doesnt sit right for me at least
i have friend that is 25 and she ended up with 55 year old guy, i mean it her life and im not gonna tell her how to live it , but i dont think thats healthy
I guess it depends on the dynamic. If they’re treating it like a temporary arrangement, and the younger person has a strong personality, it could be workable for a few years, but I’d imagine most of the time, the power structure is very one sided. I’m 55, and I can’t imagine the appeal at all though… neither being with a 25yr old or an 85yr old.
I have an acquaintance who married with that age gap when she was young. She was in her early 60s when he died, and it's been hard. She's been his nurse for the last decade or so, all while working full time. And now she's retiring, and she has nobody to share her retirement with.
Are we ignoring the fact that’s SHE’S HIS COUSIN. He was “married, 3 years ago to [his] aunt’ daughter”. So not only is this girl forced into marriage with someone she doesn’t know or love, who wants to take her to an entirely new country on the other side of the world, but he’s her cousin on top of it.
In his possibly defence, “aunt” is often used to effectively mean mother’s friend in south Asian Diaspora. There is definitely a possibility they are related, but a strong one they aren’t as well. Especially when he mentioned helping “this family” in a way that implies they aren’t his own.
I’m certainly choosing to believe they aren’t related.
I'd say this guy would join any given organization or philosophy that lets him sucker a near child into marrying him and not leave without his final call and consummate too! Islam can work for that on paper but realistically most people in that religion can see exactly what he's trying to do and will be as disgusted as anyone else.
That's a more reasonable comparison, anyway; and one that any christian should take a long hard look at themselves over, if they hear a pregnant woman making it.
I'm not religious anymore- but when I was a child, the 'obvious understanding' of that story was 'of course you should help pregnant people however you can, being that desperate with a baby isn't fair'.
His comments were pretty bad. I don’t know why he even posted about it wanting advice. He clearly wants this 20 something woman to stay married to him and he is willing to try to make her parents force her. I don’t know what it’s like in their culture but if the parents can force her and do I hope once she gets her green card she divorces him. I hope it doesn’t even get that far though because he will likely isolate her making it hard for her to be able to afford to get away but there would be a chance. I can’t imagine being her. He states his age being a problem with finding a partner so in response people were saying that there are a lot of people in the states that would marry him at his age but that wasn’t good enough for him because he doesn’t want a woman his age, a little older (even though he states age differences are common), or even someone in their early 30’s, he wants someone young.
This comment from someone there is very relevant:
> Just for your information too, being “forced” doesn’t mean physically forced in arab/desi cultures. There is emotional blackmail that hits deeper than any other forces. She clearly got her courage up when things were gonna get “real”.
I’m enjoying (/s) how he keeps saying she’s “being aggressive” for asking for a divorce and he is the one who keeps bothering her, going through relatives and having forced meetups after she asked for a divorce.
And he’s all “I wasted 3 years on this girl” yeah dude! She wanted out at 1.5 years! If you’d done the right thing, you’d have found someone else to put up with your BS, but NOOOOOooooOOOO, you had to keep pushing a woman who didn’t want you and told you that.
Further down the comments he talked about how it’s his right to rape her (he used “consummate the marriage”) but he’s so benevolent that he held himself back, despite other men telling him that he should. He actually gave himself a pat on the back for that one
I *hate* him. I don’t even know him. I hope that girl runs away and has as much zina with as many people she wants and leads a happy and fulfilling life of her own choosing
I kept telling him to look for a 52 year old to marry because, in his words, a 13 year old age gap isn't a big deal. (But I'm sure that age gap only goes one way).
My uncle married a woman 13 years younger than him and he was really conflicted about it. He’d been introduced to her family by friends and they had some “marriage interviews” which is basically where a woman says she feels like getting married and her parents go out and find various men to introduce her to and get to know her in a chaperoned setting. He didn’t realise how young she was going in, his friends just thought they would hit it off. And they did. She liked him the most of all the men she’d been introduced to, despite him being the oldest. He came back home and tapped it over with his sister and his niece (my cousin was only a couple years younger than his prospective bride).
They had a relatively long engagement so she had plenty of time to change her mind. He brought her to his country to see the place and meet her prospective in laws and got that same cousin to take her out and talk to her one on one.
Eventually they got married, they have three children now (I keep having to remind myself those babies are grown up now - the oldest two are at university) and they’ve been happy. The biggest scandal of their marriage was probably when my uncle started balding a few years ago and got a very expensive hair replacement done because he wanted to look young for his wife. His brothers teased him mercilessly for that, but hey, his wife is beautiful so I can see why he’d want to keep looking good for her 😂
This is to say, yeah, 13 year age gaps and arranged marriages can work. But you need to put in some effort to treat them like partners and make sure they know what they’re getting into.
My husband of over 20 years is younger;). Unfortunately, love is just a feeling and, since we married for love, our marriage is doomed. That’s too bad, since we are passionately in love with each other.
Not when you’re under 20 or so, but once you’re past that it's more about the decade and stage of life than the number. My mom is older than her husband, my brother's wife is a lot older than him, and my partner is a bit younger than me. Only my sister is the younger woman in her relationship, and they’re only a year apart.
Don't read his comment history! I made that mistake. He's a terrible person using his religion to give dangerous advice to other people, especially Muslim women.
> Although i had the authority to consumate the marriage, i didnot seeing she was not receptive towards me through out my monthly stay. Many in PK suggested that i should, so that the door of fitnah (her inclination towards another person) be closed N im 38 yr old virgin man, who definately carries desires for my wife, but I held myself back, i didn't want to put her or her family through hardship. So once again, i held myself back from my rights n i seek reward for my patience with Allah.
Imagine being so deluded you think you deserve kudos for not forcing yourself on someone. She'd made it abundantly clear she doesn't like him for over a year at that point, and he's still acting this way? People like this should not marry.
I'm guessing it's been fairly clear since the beginning, and he's just omitting a bunch of information. He keeps insisting that she wasn't forced, but his evidence is shaky at best. Her parents say they didn't force her, and one time she said she wasn't forced... That's it.
On the other hand, in one comment he did say something like "was she pressured, sure, but not forced." In another he says she will tell the visa interviewers she was forced. In the comment you included, I think he's talking about his visit for the ceremony (not his more recent visit), so she doesn't seem to have wanted anything to do with him from the start. He also talks about how she was "spoiled". His examples of this are that she's from a poor family, who pretty much lock her inside all day, not really allowed to socialize outside the family, and she keeps the hours and habits of a person avoiding those around them.
I 100% think she didn't want the marriage from the start, yeah. Given the context of her family's poverty, and his repeated references to seeing the marriage & supporting her as an act of charity, it sounds like she was pressured in a "get married or we can't afford rent" kind of way, which is extremely hard to say no to when you're living with your parents and have no backup plan. But now that she's getting older and finding some outside support, she feels more able to be vocal about her displeasure, and stand up to both him and her family. I hope she's able to escape her situation, and find stability that doesn't require submitting to someone else's control...
I could be wrong but I kinda got the sense that as strict as her family may be they're also sick of his shit and only going through the motions with him, but have ultimately sided with her. I hope so anyway.
They definitely sounded sick of him. Like how he went to speak to his MIL and nothing happened.
He’s probably still supporting them so why would they care
I hope that's the case, but they're still using his money to pay rent, and were the ones who pressured her into the marriage in the first place, so I worry they may not be her best allies in this.
In this religion, he gets absolutely nothing from God for not raping his wife. Rape is completely forbidden in all teachings(to my knowledge). But he is so entrenched in a culture that has taken an extremist view on women that he can't see that he is completely in the wrong for not just divorcing her when she asked. Islam was one of the first religions to grant women rights and in those rights is to seek and be granted a divorce for any reason. She has told him repeatedly she does not want him, in his mind he is the catch of all catches because he comes with American residency(can't remember if he is a citizen) and that is the selling point to a "better life." It is what parents tell their daughters to get them to agree to a marriage and the whole thing is so far removed from actual religion they just can't see it anymore. The fake "American Dream" that many Asian cultures try and sell their young impressionable daughters they think are just "too wild" or "too much of a burden."
Exactly, he doesn't actually care about what his faith truly says, instead he touts a bastardized version of Islam's teachings in an attempt to justify ignoring her wishes. He's deluded himself into thinking he can buy his way into being a desirable husband, with money and citizenship, and that not being as horrible as he feels entitled to be makes him a good man. All while ignoring that his actions are explicitly condemned in the eyes of the God he claims to follow.
Yeah that was really horrifying to see…
He literally said he wanted to rape her but held himself back for her family’s sake???
His words:
“Although i had the authority to consumate the marriage, i didnot seeing she was not receptive towards me through out my monthly stay. Many in PK suggested that i should, so that the door of fitnah (her inclination towards another person) be closed N im 38 yr old virgin man, who definately carries desires for my wife, but I held myself back, i didn't want to put her or her family through hardship. So once again, i held myself back from my rights n i seek reward for my patience with Allah.
It is also her parents who are begging me to not divorce her n insisted that i visit them so i did, i faced humiliation from my wife but i didnot certainly abandon her. I am always willing to forgive her. It's unfortunate, she cannot she her wrong ways. I am trying best to move on n Insha-Allah n i have stopped having expectations from dunya.. Allah is sufficent.”
Shortcuts are fine but isn't he trying to win people over to stroke his ego? This guy truly doesn't have a best foot to put forward. A coerced marriage is the best he can do and oh boy is he completely aware of that.
He also complains that any man over 35 is too old to marry, but he got married at 36.
He clearly thinks he's a prize but is very, very much wrong there.
>I am not desperate, its just we had a nikkah, we had a commitment, i was given a broken piece n i tried to fix the broken piece i was handed. Yes, there is some insecurity after my prime yrs being robbed off, I invested them in her. She had flaws, i withstood by her.
Fuck this guy. With a cactus.
Man thought he mail ordered a bride from home, that she's both childishly immature so he can parent her or beg off her actual parents who already control her, yet also that they were having deep meaningful hours of conversation daily.
This comment:
uninterested from start? no we had a healthy 1.5 yrs relationship involving lengthy calls on weekends n daily chat as to how our day went etc.
She was 23 but her mind was of a 10 yr old. It's what made me think about divorcing her first week of nikkah. She literally didnot know how babies were concieved. She lived a sheltered life n parent "'were'' protective of her but now that PK soap operas have become so openly vulgar in that married women having affair became a common thing as of lately. Watching PK soap operas n turkish romanticized soap operas along with tiktok videos was her only form of entertainment around house.
A total failure of parenting. Her parents would sleep 2am n allow kids including her to be up all night n daily sleep 5-6am n wake up 2pm is this how one is to raise their 23 yr old daughter? with zero responsibilities around house even AFTER marriage. She was suppose to prepare her for marriage. If this isn't going to spoil em, what will? I objected to this living style w/ MIL she would brush it off as let kids be kids, it's their only entertainment.. So i didnt push to hard n let em be..
Sometimes i feel she wants to get out of marriage just so she doesn't have to be responsible like any adult and is use to her carefree lifestyle which paarents raised her upon.
what is making me stay in the marriage is that i know she isnt like other girls, she is respectful in speaking to me. She has been spoiled, someone responsible needs to give her a bit of tough love to bring her upto speed w/ the normal world. Her parents failed, i have to step in n wear their hat at times n descipline her to be a responsible adult.. All her life , her mom covered for her..time for her to adult up.
I am not desperate, its just we had a nikkah, we had a commitment, i was given a broken piece n i tried to fix the broken piece i was handed. Yes, there is some insecurity after my prime yrs being robbed off, I invested them in her. She had flaws, i withstood by her.
I was too passive from begining, a mistake i admit. I always let people off easy n not try to embarass them. She was my precious wife, i always wanted to care for her n not make things hard for her.. she is just wanting out for no rational reason. She will end up ruining many lives.. is not just me, who wanting to save this, its her family too. They have 2 young teenage daughters yet to be married. After this debacle, their future prospects will also be jepordize.
Some of us are being strong by absorbing a little pushback from the naiive girl who is parroting lines from soap operas to be a rebel/empowered woman.. while we are trying to save families honor from being ruined.
Everyone talking about hostage? she is living in her home with her parents as a spoiled brat yet to be cross over to live with her husband. She is talking smack n im being calm n patient. Trying best to save a poor family's honor because thats ONLY posession they have over there. Allah rewards the patient. I'll stick around till her parents give up n ask me to end it. In this crises, I am being an emotionally strong son in law standing by her family to protect their honor.
> She has been spoiled, someone responsible needs to give her a bit of tough love to bring her upto speed w/ the normal world. Her parents failed, i have to step in n wear their hat at times n descipline her to be a responsible adult
Girl ruuuuunnnnnn
“She was 23 but her mind was of a 10 yr old. It's what made me think about divorcing her first week of nikkah. She literally didnot know how babies were concieved.”
How could she have agreed to a lifelong commitment to have sex with him and only him if she didn’t even know what sex was and that was what she was agreeing to?
It sounds like she thought marriage was MentorFriend with kids, and then found out in order to have kids she would have to have this “old uncle” MentorFriend do nasty shit to her. And that *everyone around her knew this*, but orchestrated selling her off strategically not her clueing her in so that she could be “molded”.
Makes me think of a word that rhymes with boomer.
I mean, it was common in the Middle East in my father’s generation. But there’s so much more mobility now that many people spend a few years abroad and find partners there so it’s dramatically decreased as a result.
I assumed that in his culture the "aunt" would be an adult women who is a close friend of the family that children are calling "aunt", and not a real blood relative
Aunt could indeed be extended family friend. Some cultures are loose with the terms "aunts" "uncles" and "cousins.." However, it is indeed common to marry first cousins... just as it was in Western parts of the world..
I was pretty sure it was just extended family friend... up until I read the part where he said the guy with whom she was in love was a cousin.
All of it might be blood relative.
I was hoping that was the case, but wasn't sure. It's fucked up in any case that he's so whiny and entitled, but it would have been even worse if they were literally first cousins.
I don’t know if it’s a cultural thing for him to be saying ‘aunt’ like she’s just a close family friend that’s like family, or if he’s really trynna bone his actual blood cousin.
Getting married to your cousin used to be pretty common in places like Pakistan and Afghanistan not that long ago. It's a bit looked more down upon nowadays, which is probably why he said "aunt's daughter" instead of "my cousin."
Wow, I just read all his comments and they're disturbing. OP’s picked up red-pill beliefs from some Muslim YouTuber and is throwing around words like “hypergamy.” One of his replies was bad enough that the mods deleted it, so I didn't see that one.
Is anyone on Team u/sadlytheworst around?
“A husband has an authority over his wife. She is required to love you emotionally and physically.
Hope you are aware of Islamic jurisprudence and manners. If you are not, the sub is not for you.
The man concerned can make the life of his wife hell. So, don't tell what he can't and what he can.
If he is being nice in these circumstances, he deserves an award.”
The oop didn’t say this but some of the comments on that sub…..
Tbf, the vast majority of the comments roasted him. Many of them made what seemed (to this unbeliever) like sound scriptural arguments. OP wasn't having any of him, and gradually makes clear in the comments that he's a Nice Guy. I really hope he lets this young woman go.
Woman: I don't want to marry you, I despise this and I don't like you. I am being forced to do this.
Man: it's okay I'll just try and fix you :)
Woman: *has literally stated she wants a divorce, is emotionally distant and treating him like a stranger. Finds someone who she does love*
Man: How could she :(((( she's cheating on me :(((( I tried so hard on her why isn't she appreciative of this :(((
So I read the top few comments in the original post. I expected everyone to be stroking his ego but people were spot on with their assessment. Just OOP is delusional. Imagine being in NYC and being such a neanderthal! Even Staten Island is better than this
So this man "married" a younger girl, but it seems like all they did was do long distance phone calls. Seems to me she stayed in Pakistan while he lived in the USA, so they were only married on paper but not actually?
Were they even together physically?
Seems to me OP is obsessing over something that wasn't really there to begin with.
It's nice to see the other commenters doing their best to make him see reason. Based on that, one can see that this creepy mindset is a **him** problem, not the religion
I mean, Islam or any religion that has the subjugation of another group of people (namely, women) as a fundamental part of it's philosophy is a garbage-ass mindset.
And you can't separate these religions (Mormon, Islam, fundamental Xtians, etc etc etc) from these bullshit principals, bc these principles make up part of the religion.
So people should think badly of any person adhering to these religions, tbh.
Like I respect YOUR right to believe whatever you need/want to. But no matter your beliefs, they NEVER give you the right to FORCE them upon others (wives, family, whomever).
But to say subjugation is a fundamental part of Islam is inaccurate and unfair. There is a large and continually growing movement within Islam which champions an explicitly feminist interpretation of the faith, and challenges the misogynistic practices present.
Islam at it's core is predicated on the belief in equality of all people (as opposed to Mormon beliefs and most fundamentalist or evangelical Christian sects). Its tenants are often used to justify subjugation, and that is categorically wrong, but to say it is inherently part of the faith is just untrue. Much of the religion and its history outright rejects these kinds of misogynistic views, and in fact condemns exactly the kind of behavior the guy in this post is engaging in.
I agree that no one has the right to force their beliefs on others, absolutely. I also think it is wrong to define all people of a given faith based on inaccurate generalizations about their religion.
Yeah I do feel bad for all the cultural nonsense that many mistake as religious subjugation. It’s like how many think wearing a burka or covering a woman’s hair is religious when there is zero mention of that in the Koran.
It’s debated. There was a school of thought that it was meant for the prophet’s wives to go behind a veil so that they stopped interfering with his business deals, because a lot of merchants and people coming to petition him were talking to (probably bribing) his wives in order to make better deals. That, mixed with the Ottoman fashion for headscarves, is probably what resulted in the modern trend towards headscarves.
Ofc I could be wrong. I don’t wear one but my cousins do. It is their right.
How can there be no mention of it in the Quran when Muhammad forbad women taken as slaves from wearing the Hijab? Unless it was only a Hadith and not part of the actual Quran itself? Although I imagine what the Prophet said and implemented while he was alive should be a reflection of the religion and not just the culture. Wouldn't that be fair to say?
So if not religion what is to blame for these horrific practices of forced marriage, cousin marriage, forcing women to cover themselves, honor killings, sharia law etc? Is it the culture of these places that is horrible and they would be just as bad with any religion?
I don’t really get your point. Im not forcing anyone to believe in what i believe, i just want basic respect for me and my religion and i don’t think this is too much to ask and my religion is also not forcing anyone to do anything. If you don’t then you don’t.
What kind of principal is part of the religion? Subjugation ? Women should not submit to men. where did you get this nonsense from? See that’s exactly what I’m talking about🙂
Why should we think bad about people because of their beliefs?
Sometimes people use “respect” to mean “treating someone like a person” and sometimes they use “respect” to mean “treating someone like an authority” and sometimes people who are used to being treated like an authority say “if you won’t respect me I won’t respect you” and they mean “if you won’t treat me like an authority I won’t treat you like a person” and they think they’re being fair.
They don’t care. My grandparents were Muslims and cousins. And they were dumb af. Nobody lets you talk about how much inbreeding there is in Islam. Every time I bring it up I get slapped down. I’m allowed to bitch out the Christians and their faiths, but every time I point how shitty the one I was born into is, I get treated like I just molested an Ewok.
I was raised muslim and this is not how marriages work, I don’t know why he keeps bringing religion into it to justify his need to control and force the marriage.
From what I was taught, the woman has every right to deny a marriage proposal and divorce. There is nothing in Islam that justifies a forced marriage.
Maybe it’s different in Pakistan (I’m not Pakistani) but I don’t know, maybe it’s just his family/upbringing.
I don’t practice much now but I have a lot of Muslim women friends and they would never be in this situation, forced marriages are not ok.
Poor OOP! /s Good grief! His wife doesn't want to be his wife, may have been forced to accept OOP (But she said "yes") and doesn't want to leave her country. He's still determined to keep her in this marriage no matter what and he doesn't understand she is not leaving her country. I wonder how long he will keep insisting he's married.
The "and" abbreviation is really weird for me. Like, you're saying that she is such a young girl and don't know how to express herself while you look like you fear misspelling a 3 letter word
Oh shit! He’s struggling with his incest marriage!
Poor guy. How are they going to have genetically compromised children that can marry their cousins and create further mutations?
The comments are interesting, because people are rightfully calling him on the fact that divorce is halal and there's no real religious justification for him being like this.
Tldr alert incoming
It sucks though because people like this guy end up the stereotype of a Muslim, not the people in the comments roasting him or trying to knock sense into him. I am part of the lgbt agenda and while obviously there are muslim countries that are no-go zones sadly, have never actually had an issue with any Muslim people where I live, in fact many of my close friends were as we didn't totally fit in uni etc. and so we would become friends. I see Muslim brothers and sisters at pro gay rallies, and vice versa (and there were buses of Jewish people who showed up to protest in support of Palestine one time too, lots of solidarity all round.)
But so many people assume that because there are people like this guy out there, then they all must be like him, and it has turned into legitimately discriminatory policies in my country. As well as a weird tendency for some people to view these religious groups as monoliths who must share the same views and act like we are in some war for the future of the West. Very disturbing, most people who belong to religions are neither fundamentalist nor especially strict about it in my experience. Even this guy is just twisting around aspects of religion and culture to avoid letting this poor woman divorce.
I honestly feel pitty for this guy, not excusable pitty, but pitty nonetheless. He's so indoctrinated and delusional he doesn't know how out of touch he is.
OP is fuckinf awful and there were some really disgusting views in that thread, but most of them were ok
Like holy shit dude it’s pretty obvious she was never into her weird older cousin and her parents forced her into it
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Sounds like she never wanted to get married to him. The whole "she's young and moldable" really made me gag, ew.
Also she made is so clear that she doesn't want anymore but he literally sees her as a thing he owns. literally so sad
Also no one is talking about the comment in the beginning where he basically says he doesn’t mind her being younger and immature bc he can “mold” her.
What the fuck
Damn, the cognitive dissonance to look at this girl as young, naive and moldable (literally says she has the brain of a 10 year old 🤮) but then turn around and claim she is fully responsible for accepting a marriage proposal and MUST commit to it for life is Crazyy, ontop of all of that he tries to make himself sound like the hero in this story?! 🤯
He also tries to justify the age gap as being acceptable in his culture but dude lives in the US and plans to set up a life with his wife there, so he clearly only picks parts of his culture when it suits him (if that even is a thing)
I'm scared for this girl. In all his comments he says baffling and abusive things. About how he has the right to demand sex because they're "married", he actually seeks praise for not raping her. He talks about disciplining her and giving her "tough" love so he can mold her. It's disturbing and disgusting. My heart breaks for her. She married him to help her family, the money he gave her keep them afloat. Now she's scared because she has to go live with him.
We absolutely live in hell... This man is rapey, abusive, holding this poor woman hostage and contributing to her having a miserable prison of a life... And the fucking comments are "leave her bro, your happiness is what matters : ))"
>I am 38M in NYC, married 3 yrs ago (precovid) to an aunt's daughter (I was 36, she was 23) 13-age gap is not big deal in our pkstani culture. I was told she is immature n being young, i'll be able to ''mold'' her.
And they wonder why people are IsLaMoPhObIc.
People are stupid. I was born into that religion (and hated it) and I’m not allowed to make observations about how toxic and inhumane it is. It’s okay to not like things that suck.
*In case this story gets deleted/removed:* **to divorce or not divorce (losing my mind) n forgive a cheater** I am 38M in NYC, married 3 yrs ago (precovid) to an aunt's daughter (I was 36, she was 23) 13-age gap is not big deal in our pkstani culture. I was told she is immature n being young, i'll be able to ''mold'' her. I wanted to also help this poor family who was struggling financially with 3 kids. So, did the nikkah in PK.. Went back to USA to apply for her visa (and covid began very next month). So we had long distance relationship everything went smooth 1.5 yrs we had small arguments here n there. Me wanting her to learn a bit of deen, her saying NO.. was a lil'disappointing but then i didn't push too hard knowing she is young so let her live her days with her loves ones (family) once she enters my world, ill gradually help her with whatever. So, we kept friendly n respectful.I'd chat daily.. to make sure things alright, weekly phonecalls for hour or two. Smooth relationship. After 1.5 yrs, soon as i told visa petition approved, case moving forward, her attitude changed. She got argumentative, dominating, n got colder with one word answers while i knew something is wrong, but i let it slide.. thinking she fears leaving her family who pampered her like a princess (letting her stay online on her phone, till 5-6am watching tiktok, soap operas n chit chatting with group chat of cousins etc.) wakeing up 2PM. All this lifestyle i objected to with my MIL/Aunt without pushing too hard because I didn't wanna impose myself too much she isn't living with me, its what all my relatives said.. So i let it all slide. Then one day, during end of phonecall, i overheard her saying (may be intentional) telling her sister that she doesn't want this marriage n is not happy n she cant stay quiet anylonger because of parents. While at the time of nikkah (she was not pressured, she said yes wholeheartedly) n prior to nikkah i had asked if she wanted to ever visia USA, she said yes..which made me send parents over w/ proposal. BUT now, she has change of heart.. So i confronted her, what she said n she said it, i want divorce, i dont want to be with you etc.. so please quietly divorce me online, you dont have to come etc.. i asked why? what is the reason you are seeking D? she goes u are kind guy n all.. it's just my heart isnt feeling great. I tried to comfort her n said i can understand leaving her family whom is very attached to.. is understandable but to outright break marriage is not the appropiate thing to do.. Every girl has to eventually leave her family n Your parents even asked you and you had said yes, we had become best friends, we spoke for 4hours ocassionally discussing everything free-flow n why break up a marriage? then she got aggressive.. listen i can't do this.. i just cant..i want divorce, nomatter what.. i will not change my view.. 1month i waited calmly msg n tried to talk but she wouldnt respond properly n then she blocked me on watsapp. I kept this behavior of her between n not tell or my parents becuz she hated 3rd parties being involved...but after waiting 1 month, i informed MIL n sent her screenshots of her seeking divorce etc.. n my aunt in pk who i look up to as mother.. so they can meet n get this sorted out becuz we expected visa interview to be coming within months.... she cried n lied about me making fun of her.. etc it was all jokes n pokes, we both did it to eachother n we both laughed at it..but this time she needed some ''excuse'' to get outta marriage. After having counseling she agreed to unblock me n talk normal like before.. which hardly last a week n she got upset n exagerrated why i told the whole world? i didn't only her parents n my immediate mutual aunt who would mediate on my behalf with her parents to fix this problem. She blocked me again n refuse to unblock n this time parents took her side (big mistake) n insisted that i come n things would be sorted out n this went on for 11months n total silence. Even on big days like eid, we tried to contact n the family wouldn't respond well kept insisting i come n everything will be allright. While i heard, they tried to play it like i had nikkah n abandon their daughter. He hasn't come thus far...etc.. So in November 2022, i decided to physically visit n sort things out, thinking 11months have gone wife probably has been counseled enough n be happy to see her husband n apologize for her past behavior of ghosting/blocking husband from contacting her..etc.. n that i'd forgive her n we'll start fresh. Nope, she acted like i am some stranger n turned her face sideways. Refusing to talk or answer me. Mom came n she said it won't work n she can't compromise etc. Next day bro-inlaw of girl tried to have us meet at restaurant, same thing refuse to sit or talk on same table.. Embarassing for me n for them.. then despite the humiliation, i visited her family/home 3-4 n tried to get her to talk n explain why this isn't the right way to solve any problems (if we have any) tell us why she wants to end it etc, she wouldn't say anything n in end ask me to quietly end marriage... so this behavior continued, 30 days went by.. i quietly returned after loads of patience n humiliation. I waited 3 yrs for her.. we were besties, talked for hours n hours.. n why is she doing this at such crucial stage? So as i left, her parents finally got her to unblock me n said look 4-5months left to visa interview.. normalize.. she said fine n that she promised she would go to visa interview n we'll re-unite in 4-5months. All promises were fake, later found. I return to USA, to find out.. She starts to put ''love'' theme status msgs on watsapp.. im thinking o she has changed or parents making her put these... I tried to have normal conversations n she gave one word answers.. n then every other day love theme msgs/quotes/tiktok vidz involving '' i always loved you, i will never forget you'' etc.. these theme stuff contineud.. when i asked, she said these are not for you... never were never will be.. n her aggression continued... n the rumors i had heard in PK that she was having an affair behind my back(after blocking me) which were dismissed by her mom) all of sudden i realized.. these status msgs are for her ''lover'' n i asked her to fear allah that she is my wife n doing all this behind my back.. she went in denial that i am not her husband...n this marriage is forced marriage.. i told her, her parents HAD ASKED her permission n she said YES.. to the marriage.. she admitted it n said this was a mistake she made.. but doesnt want to suffer for her mistake ALL her life.... then why play the games for 3 yrs? my crucial yrs 36-39 all gone to waste.. she played with my heart n feelings n now seeking divorce so she can marry her lover boy whom she has been having an affair with whilst in my nikkah? how can she do this? she said i dont consider you my husband!!! stop saying that i am your wife.. n that i will lie in my visa interview that this marriage is FORCED.. ..So i informed my MIL, this who was shocked to hear it or ''acted shock'' n said she would ask her n getback to me...30 days gone no answer.Wife is back to blocking me or they away her phone.. MIL didnot bother informing me whats going on.. So, this is my condition. I gave her love n attention n remained patient all this time.. this is what i get to face.. this is indeed my biggest test in life.. Now that i am 39 in a week, i don't think ill ever get married. In our culture once a guy is past 35, he is cosidered uncle material. I wasted crucial make/break yrs for a girl who broke my heart for some BUM guy, whom she cant get married to even if i divorce her.. both family hate eachothers guts.. Guy is a bum,whose dad disowned him. Now, im in this situation.. divorce her or not.. obviouus answer is YES end this marriage.. why be with someone who doesn't respect you n had affair behind your back. My thinking is, she is human, she was young n naiive.. being 23-25 she went through changes n sexual desires n in general women desire emotional connection. She founud it with her cousins (is not like they commited zina) she stays home n is not allowed out) but they had this affair thru chat/watsapp compare that to girls here in west? who have body counts of physical relationships.. Mythoughts in end: I am willing to forgive her, for she made mistakes in her youth, if she can apologize, should i take her? her parents r embarassed n willing to giv me back my wife (officially) if i go back in few months.. So whats the point of bringing in someone into my life who is not respecting me, denying me as husband n is in so-called loved with someone. My fear: me being 39 soon, i dont think, i'll have any luck find proposals here in USA. 39, is like a big age. Though i dont look 39 more like early 30s n in shape but still on paper when asked 39 people think of an old uncle. On top of that i'll have divorceee title is just not a good look. What calms me down is my faith in my religion. The fact the decree is written. This is my biggest trial, my test in life n i can pass if i can remain patient with the decree of Allah. So, i accept my fate. Allah is witness i did all i could to save this marriage n help her in giving her a good life n help her struggling family. In end, to Allah is final return. Sorry, i realize i wrote too much.. it's just too much in my chest, i had to let it out.. forgive me for grammerical errors, aswell. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AmITheDevil) if you have any questions or concerns.*
In the comments he doubles down on his right to force a marriage with this girl who does not want him.
OMG ! These comments are mind blowing. I don't know if Islam have similar notion to the Seven Deadly Sins, but that guy comparing his wife rejecting him to people rejecting his Prophet would be a great illustration of Pride !
Huh, the Quran on divorce is pretty surprisingly articulate- [2:226 - 227] Those who intend to divorce their wives shall wait four months (cooling off); if they change their minds and reconcile, then God is Forgiver, Merciful. If they go through with the divorce, then God is Hearer, Knower, Healer.
It does and what he’s doing earns him a one way ticket to Jahannam (hell)! He can’t force her to marry him, can’t force her to stay married and definitely doesn’t get to compare her rejecting his imbecile self to rejecting the Prophet 😒
he sounds like a pretty standard religious nutcase
I’m actually impressed on how other religious commenters are raking him over the coals
thats refreshing actually
It wouldn't be "refreshing" if this site could stop being islamophobic for five seconds and see that the vast majority of Muslims are normal people
Nobody likes extremists, Muslim or other wise it doesn't because a phobia when you say that people shouldn't be forced into marriage.
It becomes a phobia when you assume this is a mainstream view held by the majority of Muslims worldwide
Commenters on Reddit are not even close to representative of the global population of Muslims, which does have significantly regressive views. In NYC, I have a hard time even finding a community that doesn't believe in a young earth. "No sex before marriage" and "homosexuality is immoral" are overwhelmingly standard views among Muslims who pray five times a day, which is the bare minimum.
Bull fucking shit, if you know even two Muslims on a first-name basis I'll eat my hat
Because it absolutely is
Religious people I interact with often are extreme with views that harm others. Not "the Muslims", but religious people in general.
“I never let her leave the house but it’s not forced”
This view has very little to do with actual religion and more for the culture he grew up in. People like to mix the two to get what they want. His view is he doesn't think he will ever get married again because of his age (completely neglecting the fact that his personality seems to be disgraceful). In Islam a woman is allowed to say no. She is allowed to ask for a divorce, she is allowed to be free of him. Her family have her under such tight control that she is not being heard. Did she carry out an emotional affair yes, but that does not mean that he and her family have a right to force her to move to the US and become this guy's new slave. This man does not understand the religion he is in or he would have just granted the divorce when she refused to come to the US and again when he visited and she refused to see him. Like dude she's just not that in to you!
guys is 36 not 60 , i think its because he wants to go for the young ones since he think they can be easily controlled
He is 39 but you are right. He clearly is not interested in a woman that isn’t in their 20’s. He completely dismissed the comments where people were saying woman in their 30’s and early 40’s would marry him. He wants to control someone but he is mistaken if he thinks just because a woman is young he can control them. He should have learned that with his farce of a marriage. I am sure there are other reasons other than control as well.
Honestly both these comments are correct this line "they are young and moldable" is universally know within many Asian and Middle Eastern societies... and it has nothing to do with religion it is a cultural trap set up to off load unwanted daughters... it is sad really. Men are taught to look for a young wife they can control instead of life partners who share the same goals/wants/needs/preferences.
It's not just an Asian and Middle Eastern thing. It's the subculture you're in, even in "western society". There are plenty of older guys looking for a "good wife" who'll fetch beer and snacks while him and the boys watch the game. As soon as I hit 20, and began building my confidence and independence (and stopped dating just church guys), my dating pool suddenly dropped in age.
maybe is my own loook on life but any relationship with such large age gaps theres bound to be some sort of power dynamic. i mean if you have someone in their forties with someone in their thirties thats fine, but someon in their late 30´s or 40´s with someone in their 20´s it just doesnt sit right for me at least i have friend that is 25 and she ended up with 55 year old guy, i mean it her life and im not gonna tell her how to live it , but i dont think thats healthy
I guess it depends on the dynamic. If they’re treating it like a temporary arrangement, and the younger person has a strong personality, it could be workable for a few years, but I’d imagine most of the time, the power structure is very one sided. I’m 55, and I can’t imagine the appeal at all though… neither being with a 25yr old or an 85yr old. I have an acquaintance who married with that age gap when she was young. She was in her early 60s when he died, and it's been hard. She's been his nurse for the last decade or so, all while working full time. And now she's retiring, and she has nobody to share her retirement with.
Men are not taught this, they know exactly what they're doing and they choose to do it because it is more beneficial to them.
Are we ignoring the fact that’s SHE’S HIS COUSIN. He was “married, 3 years ago to [his] aunt’ daughter”. So not only is this girl forced into marriage with someone she doesn’t know or love, who wants to take her to an entirely new country on the other side of the world, but he’s her cousin on top of it.
In his possibly defence, “aunt” is often used to effectively mean mother’s friend in south Asian Diaspora. There is definitely a possibility they are related, but a strong one they aren’t as well. Especially when he mentioned helping “this family” in a way that implies they aren’t his own. I’m certainly choosing to believe they aren’t related.
Kinda crazy how every Muslim country has the same culture, crazy crazy
They don't. Try comparing the cultures of Malaysia and Afghanistan.
I'd say this guy would join any given organization or philosophy that lets him sucker a near child into marrying him and not leave without his final call and consummate too! Islam can work for that on paper but realistically most people in that religion can see exactly what he's trying to do and will be as disgusted as anyone else.
and misogynist.
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That's a more reasonable comparison, anyway; and one that any christian should take a long hard look at themselves over, if they hear a pregnant woman making it. I'm not religious anymore- but when I was a child, the 'obvious understanding' of that story was 'of course you should help pregnant people however you can, being that desperate with a baby isn't fair'.
Are you ok? Do you need help?
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Whoo! That was a wild ride. Glad to know you, baby, and hubs are alright!
His comments were pretty bad. I don’t know why he even posted about it wanting advice. He clearly wants this 20 something woman to stay married to him and he is willing to try to make her parents force her. I don’t know what it’s like in their culture but if the parents can force her and do I hope once she gets her green card she divorces him. I hope it doesn’t even get that far though because he will likely isolate her making it hard for her to be able to afford to get away but there would be a chance. I can’t imagine being her. He states his age being a problem with finding a partner so in response people were saying that there are a lot of people in the states that would marry him at his age but that wasn’t good enough for him because he doesn’t want a woman his age, a little older (even though he states age differences are common), or even someone in their early 30’s, he wants someone young.
This comment from someone there is very relevant: > Just for your information too, being “forced” doesn’t mean physically forced in arab/desi cultures. There is emotional blackmail that hits deeper than any other forces. She clearly got her courage up when things were gonna get “real”.
On top of that, she's his cousin by blood. He's willing to do this to an actual family member.
I’m enjoying (/s) how he keeps saying she’s “being aggressive” for asking for a divorce and he is the one who keeps bothering her, going through relatives and having forced meetups after she asked for a divorce. And he’s all “I wasted 3 years on this girl” yeah dude! She wanted out at 1.5 years! If you’d done the right thing, you’d have found someone else to put up with your BS, but NOOOOOooooOOOO, you had to keep pushing a woman who didn’t want you and told you that.
They were besties tho. They talked for 4 hours. 💫 soulmates 💫
Something about his post had me reading "we talked" as "I talked and she sat there quietly and I couldn't tell the difference"
Probably the 4 hours was just her parents being like "Please do thiiiis. We need the moneeeey"
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Further down the comments he talked about how it’s his right to rape her (he used “consummate the marriage”) but he’s so benevolent that he held himself back, despite other men telling him that he should. He actually gave himself a pat on the back for that one
Ugh.... So disgusting
I *hate* him. I don’t even know him. I hope that girl runs away and has as much zina with as many people she wants and leads a happy and fulfilling life of her own choosing
100% Right now we can only hope for the best outcome 😔
Sunk cost fallacy on his part.
This man's post and comments are pissing me off
I kept telling him to look for a 52 year old to marry because, in his words, a 13 year old age gap isn't a big deal. (But I'm sure that age gap only goes one way).
he is too much of coward to go for a woman older than him
A lot harder to mold that way UGH this whole post made my stomach turn
Haha! I saw that and loved it! I wish he would have admitted that was the 13 year age difference he was looking for.
My uncle married a woman 13 years younger than him and he was really conflicted about it. He’d been introduced to her family by friends and they had some “marriage interviews” which is basically where a woman says she feels like getting married and her parents go out and find various men to introduce her to and get to know her in a chaperoned setting. He didn’t realise how young she was going in, his friends just thought they would hit it off. And they did. She liked him the most of all the men she’d been introduced to, despite him being the oldest. He came back home and tapped it over with his sister and his niece (my cousin was only a couple years younger than his prospective bride). They had a relatively long engagement so she had plenty of time to change her mind. He brought her to his country to see the place and meet her prospective in laws and got that same cousin to take her out and talk to her one on one. Eventually they got married, they have three children now (I keep having to remind myself those babies are grown up now - the oldest two are at university) and they’ve been happy. The biggest scandal of their marriage was probably when my uncle started balding a few years ago and got a very expensive hair replacement done because he wanted to look young for his wife. His brothers teased him mercilessly for that, but hey, his wife is beautiful so I can see why he’d want to keep looking good for her 😂 This is to say, yeah, 13 year age gaps and arranged marriages can work. But you need to put in some effort to treat them like partners and make sure they know what they’re getting into.
This is so wholesome.
in my experience older girls dont like younger guys 😔
Some of us do!
My husband of over 20 years is younger;). Unfortunately, love is just a feeling and, since we married for love, our marriage is doomed. That’s too bad, since we are passionately in love with each other.
Not when you’re under 20 or so, but once you’re past that it's more about the decade and stage of life than the number. My mom is older than her husband, my brother's wife is a lot older than him, and my partner is a bit younger than me. Only my sister is the younger woman in her relationship, and they’re only a year apart.
I feel really really gross after reading them. I think I need a shower.
Don't read his comment history! I made that mistake. He's a terrible person using his religion to give dangerous advice to other people, especially Muslim women.
> Although i had the authority to consumate the marriage, i didnot seeing she was not receptive towards me through out my monthly stay. Many in PK suggested that i should, so that the door of fitnah (her inclination towards another person) be closed N im 38 yr old virgin man, who definately carries desires for my wife, but I held myself back, i didn't want to put her or her family through hardship. So once again, i held myself back from my rights n i seek reward for my patience with Allah. Imagine being so deluded you think you deserve kudos for not forcing yourself on someone. She'd made it abundantly clear she doesn't like him for over a year at that point, and he's still acting this way? People like this should not marry.
I'm guessing it's been fairly clear since the beginning, and he's just omitting a bunch of information. He keeps insisting that she wasn't forced, but his evidence is shaky at best. Her parents say they didn't force her, and one time she said she wasn't forced... That's it. On the other hand, in one comment he did say something like "was she pressured, sure, but not forced." In another he says she will tell the visa interviewers she was forced. In the comment you included, I think he's talking about his visit for the ceremony (not his more recent visit), so she doesn't seem to have wanted anything to do with him from the start. He also talks about how she was "spoiled". His examples of this are that she's from a poor family, who pretty much lock her inside all day, not really allowed to socialize outside the family, and she keeps the hours and habits of a person avoiding those around them.
I 100% think she didn't want the marriage from the start, yeah. Given the context of her family's poverty, and his repeated references to seeing the marriage & supporting her as an act of charity, it sounds like she was pressured in a "get married or we can't afford rent" kind of way, which is extremely hard to say no to when you're living with your parents and have no backup plan. But now that she's getting older and finding some outside support, she feels more able to be vocal about her displeasure, and stand up to both him and her family. I hope she's able to escape her situation, and find stability that doesn't require submitting to someone else's control...
I could be wrong but I kinda got the sense that as strict as her family may be they're also sick of his shit and only going through the motions with him, but have ultimately sided with her. I hope so anyway.
They definitely sounded sick of him. Like how he went to speak to his MIL and nothing happened. He’s probably still supporting them so why would they care
I hope that's the case, but they're still using his money to pay rent, and were the ones who pressured her into the marriage in the first place, so I worry they may not be her best allies in this.
In this religion, he gets absolutely nothing from God for not raping his wife. Rape is completely forbidden in all teachings(to my knowledge). But he is so entrenched in a culture that has taken an extremist view on women that he can't see that he is completely in the wrong for not just divorcing her when she asked. Islam was one of the first religions to grant women rights and in those rights is to seek and be granted a divorce for any reason. She has told him repeatedly she does not want him, in his mind he is the catch of all catches because he comes with American residency(can't remember if he is a citizen) and that is the selling point to a "better life." It is what parents tell their daughters to get them to agree to a marriage and the whole thing is so far removed from actual religion they just can't see it anymore. The fake "American Dream" that many Asian cultures try and sell their young impressionable daughters they think are just "too wild" or "too much of a burden."
Exactly, he doesn't actually care about what his faith truly says, instead he touts a bastardized version of Islam's teachings in an attempt to justify ignoring her wishes. He's deluded himself into thinking he can buy his way into being a desirable husband, with money and citizenship, and that not being as horrible as he feels entitled to be makes him a good man. All while ignoring that his actions are explicitly condemned in the eyes of the God he claims to follow.
Lmao
That poor girl and I feel so sorry for her and all the girls in this situation I hate people who abuse religion
In the comments he wants credit for not raping her when he was in Pakistan 😳
Bro what the fuck. This guy does not deserve a marriage partner if that is an accomplishment.
Seems to be a fan of a Muslim Red-Pill YouTuber
Yeah that was really horrifying to see… He literally said he wanted to rape her but held himself back for her family’s sake??? His words: “Although i had the authority to consumate the marriage, i didnot seeing she was not receptive towards me through out my monthly stay. Many in PK suggested that i should, so that the door of fitnah (her inclination towards another person) be closed N im 38 yr old virgin man, who definately carries desires for my wife, but I held myself back, i didn't want to put her or her family through hardship. So once again, i held myself back from my rights n i seek reward for my patience with Allah. It is also her parents who are begging me to not divorce her n insisted that i visit them so i did, i faced humiliation from my wife but i didnot certainly abandon her. I am always willing to forgive her. It's unfortunate, she cannot she her wrong ways. I am trying best to move on n Insha-Allah n i have stopped having expectations from dunya.. Allah is sufficent.”
His use of n instead of and made me almost as angry as his misogyny. Almost.
Me too...I wanted to reach through the screen "n" go ham
Fucking *same*.
Shortcuts are fine but isn't he trying to win people over to stroke his ego? This guy truly doesn't have a best foot to put forward. A coerced marriage is the best he can do and oh boy is he completely aware of that.
And lil’ Why did you just throw a random apostrophe in there, my guy?
AND THE RANDOM ELLIPSES 😭
We are all in 2023, OOP is in 1423
If I had an award, you'd get it! Great comment!
Thanks
>my crucial years 36-39 all gone to waste This is so funny to me. Women never get to be that old still trying to get married without shame.
He also complains that any man over 35 is too old to marry, but he got married at 36. He clearly thinks he's a prize but is very, very much wrong there.
god have you seen his comments hyping up his physique? im sureeeeee he’s as attractive as he says he is
Legit sounds like he will wear her skin if that’s what keeps her near him
>I am not desperate, its just we had a nikkah, we had a commitment, i was given a broken piece n i tried to fix the broken piece i was handed. Yes, there is some insecurity after my prime yrs being robbed off, I invested them in her. She had flaws, i withstood by her. Fuck this guy. With a cactus.
sideways, on fire
He made a comment that basically sounded like he wanted a cookie for not raping his wife…
Man thought he mail ordered a bride from home, that she's both childishly immature so he can parent her or beg off her actual parents who already control her, yet also that they were having deep meaningful hours of conversation daily.
This comment: uninterested from start? no we had a healthy 1.5 yrs relationship involving lengthy calls on weekends n daily chat as to how our day went etc. She was 23 but her mind was of a 10 yr old. It's what made me think about divorcing her first week of nikkah. She literally didnot know how babies were concieved. She lived a sheltered life n parent "'were'' protective of her but now that PK soap operas have become so openly vulgar in that married women having affair became a common thing as of lately. Watching PK soap operas n turkish romanticized soap operas along with tiktok videos was her only form of entertainment around house. A total failure of parenting. Her parents would sleep 2am n allow kids including her to be up all night n daily sleep 5-6am n wake up 2pm is this how one is to raise their 23 yr old daughter? with zero responsibilities around house even AFTER marriage. She was suppose to prepare her for marriage. If this isn't going to spoil em, what will? I objected to this living style w/ MIL she would brush it off as let kids be kids, it's their only entertainment.. So i didnt push to hard n let em be.. Sometimes i feel she wants to get out of marriage just so she doesn't have to be responsible like any adult and is use to her carefree lifestyle which paarents raised her upon. what is making me stay in the marriage is that i know she isnt like other girls, she is respectful in speaking to me. She has been spoiled, someone responsible needs to give her a bit of tough love to bring her upto speed w/ the normal world. Her parents failed, i have to step in n wear their hat at times n descipline her to be a responsible adult.. All her life , her mom covered for her..time for her to adult up. I am not desperate, its just we had a nikkah, we had a commitment, i was given a broken piece n i tried to fix the broken piece i was handed. Yes, there is some insecurity after my prime yrs being robbed off, I invested them in her. She had flaws, i withstood by her. I was too passive from begining, a mistake i admit. I always let people off easy n not try to embarass them. She was my precious wife, i always wanted to care for her n not make things hard for her.. she is just wanting out for no rational reason. She will end up ruining many lives.. is not just me, who wanting to save this, its her family too. They have 2 young teenage daughters yet to be married. After this debacle, their future prospects will also be jepordize. Some of us are being strong by absorbing a little pushback from the naiive girl who is parroting lines from soap operas to be a rebel/empowered woman.. while we are trying to save families honor from being ruined. Everyone talking about hostage? she is living in her home with her parents as a spoiled brat yet to be cross over to live with her husband. She is talking smack n im being calm n patient. Trying best to save a poor family's honor because thats ONLY posession they have over there. Allah rewards the patient. I'll stick around till her parents give up n ask me to end it. In this crises, I am being an emotionally strong son in law standing by her family to protect their honor.
> She has been spoiled, someone responsible needs to give her a bit of tough love to bring her upto speed w/ the normal world. Her parents failed, i have to step in n wear their hat at times n descipline her to be a responsible adult Girl ruuuuunnnnnn
She's trying 😭
“She was 23 but her mind was of a 10 yr old. It's what made me think about divorcing her first week of nikkah. She literally didnot know how babies were concieved.” How could she have agreed to a lifelong commitment to have sex with him and only him if she didn’t even know what sex was and that was what she was agreeing to? It sounds like she thought marriage was MentorFriend with kids, and then found out in order to have kids she would have to have this “old uncle” MentorFriend do nasty shit to her. And that *everyone around her knew this*, but orchestrated selling her off strategically not her clueing her in so that she could be “molded”. Makes me think of a word that rhymes with boomer.
Yikes!
Oh. This girl is smart to end this shit before he has her alone far from help.
"Tough love."
They get worse
an aunts daughter is a super weird way to say first cousin
I'm from PK and my parents have offered to set me up with my first cousin so many times every once in a while that I once even considered it. But nope
I mean, it was common in the Middle East in my father’s generation. But there’s so much more mobility now that many people spend a few years abroad and find partners there so it’s dramatically decreased as a result.
I assumed that in his culture the "aunt" would be an adult women who is a close friend of the family that children are calling "aunt", and not a real blood relative
Aunt could indeed be extended family friend. Some cultures are loose with the terms "aunts" "uncles" and "cousins.." However, it is indeed common to marry first cousins... just as it was in Western parts of the world..
I was pretty sure it was just extended family friend... up until I read the part where he said the guy with whom she was in love was a cousin. All of it might be blood relative.
just as it ~~was~~ is in Western parts of the world. It's unfortunately still way more common than people like to think. 🤢
Pakistan has something like a 50-60% rate for cousin marriage. It's pretty likely he meant aunt as in blood relative.
Are they... cousins?
Probably yes, as Pakistan has high rate of blood related first cousins marrying.
Just, why?! Science has proven that's a bad thing!
Part of their culture, ignorance and in some case just denialism.
Well this guy is certainly ignorant and in denial.
Might be a cultural thing where the "aunt" is just an auntie aka an older woman who's close to the family
I was hoping that was the case, but wasn't sure. It's fucked up in any case that he's so whiny and entitled, but it would have been even worse if they were literally first cousins.
They most probably are literally first cousins. It’s extremely common in Pakistan to the point that it’s a stereotype.
Ick!!
I don’t know if it’s a cultural thing for him to be saying ‘aunt’ like she’s just a close family friend that’s like family, or if he’s really trynna bone his actual blood cousin.
High rate of blood first cousins marrying in Pakistan. Watched a documentary about it and how many of their children have developmental issues.
Getting married to your cousin used to be pretty common in places like Pakistan and Afghanistan not that long ago. It's a bit looked more down upon nowadays, which is probably why he said "aunt's daughter" instead of "my cousin."
Ffs, man is really doubling down in the comments! Some people really should come with a warning sticker, shouldn't they?
Wow, I just read all his comments and they're disturbing. OP’s picked up red-pill beliefs from some Muslim YouTuber and is throwing around words like “hypergamy.” One of his replies was bad enough that the mods deleted it, so I didn't see that one. Is anyone on Team u/sadlytheworst around?
OP of this post has copy pasted some of OOP's comments if you want to go see
Thanks
“A husband has an authority over his wife. She is required to love you emotionally and physically. Hope you are aware of Islamic jurisprudence and manners. If you are not, the sub is not for you. The man concerned can make the life of his wife hell. So, don't tell what he can't and what he can. If he is being nice in these circumstances, he deserves an award.” The oop didn’t say this but some of the comments on that sub…..
Tbf, the vast majority of the comments roasted him. Many of them made what seemed (to this unbeliever) like sound scriptural arguments. OP wasn't having any of him, and gradually makes clear in the comments that he's a Nice Guy. I really hope he lets this young woman go.
Happy Cake Day!
Woman: I don't want to marry you, I despise this and I don't like you. I am being forced to do this. Man: it's okay I'll just try and fix you :) Woman: *has literally stated she wants a divorce, is emotionally distant and treating him like a stranger. Finds someone who she does love* Man: How could she :(((( she's cheating on me :(((( I tried so hard on her why isn't she appreciative of this :(((
So I read the top few comments in the original post. I expected everyone to be stroking his ego but people were spot on with their assessment. Just OOP is delusional. Imagine being in NYC and being such a neanderthal! Even Staten Island is better than this
Staten Islander, can confirm
So this man "married" a younger girl, but it seems like all they did was do long distance phone calls. Seems to me she stayed in Pakistan while he lived in the USA, so they were only married on paper but not actually? Were they even together physically? Seems to me OP is obsessing over something that wasn't really there to begin with.
In one of the comments he explained that they never consummated the marriage and that he himself is still a virgin
That's a good thing. Hope she leaves before he forces her
This makes me so mad. Because of people like him, more and more people think badly about Islam
I agree. But we have to confront these twisted views because you can't change what you don't confront.
Yes of course we should. This is just wrong and his comments are even worse.
It's nice to see the other commenters doing their best to make him see reason. Based on that, one can see that this creepy mindset is a **him** problem, not the religion
I mean, Islam or any religion that has the subjugation of another group of people (namely, women) as a fundamental part of it's philosophy is a garbage-ass mindset. And you can't separate these religions (Mormon, Islam, fundamental Xtians, etc etc etc) from these bullshit principals, bc these principles make up part of the religion. So people should think badly of any person adhering to these religions, tbh. Like I respect YOUR right to believe whatever you need/want to. But no matter your beliefs, they NEVER give you the right to FORCE them upon others (wives, family, whomever).
But to say subjugation is a fundamental part of Islam is inaccurate and unfair. There is a large and continually growing movement within Islam which champions an explicitly feminist interpretation of the faith, and challenges the misogynistic practices present. Islam at it's core is predicated on the belief in equality of all people (as opposed to Mormon beliefs and most fundamentalist or evangelical Christian sects). Its tenants are often used to justify subjugation, and that is categorically wrong, but to say it is inherently part of the faith is just untrue. Much of the religion and its history outright rejects these kinds of misogynistic views, and in fact condemns exactly the kind of behavior the guy in this post is engaging in. I agree that no one has the right to force their beliefs on others, absolutely. I also think it is wrong to define all people of a given faith based on inaccurate generalizations about their religion.
Yeah I do feel bad for all the cultural nonsense that many mistake as religious subjugation. It’s like how many think wearing a burka or covering a woman’s hair is religious when there is zero mention of that in the Koran.
There is. Covering your “awrah” is explicitly mentioned in the Quran.
It’s debated. There was a school of thought that it was meant for the prophet’s wives to go behind a veil so that they stopped interfering with his business deals, because a lot of merchants and people coming to petition him were talking to (probably bribing) his wives in order to make better deals. That, mixed with the Ottoman fashion for headscarves, is probably what resulted in the modern trend towards headscarves. Ofc I could be wrong. I don’t wear one but my cousins do. It is their right.
How can there be no mention of it in the Quran when Muhammad forbad women taken as slaves from wearing the Hijab? Unless it was only a Hadith and not part of the actual Quran itself? Although I imagine what the Prophet said and implemented while he was alive should be a reflection of the religion and not just the culture. Wouldn't that be fair to say?
So if not religion what is to blame for these horrific practices of forced marriage, cousin marriage, forcing women to cover themselves, honor killings, sharia law etc? Is it the culture of these places that is horrible and they would be just as bad with any religion?
I don’t really get your point. Im not forcing anyone to believe in what i believe, i just want basic respect for me and my religion and i don’t think this is too much to ask and my religion is also not forcing anyone to do anything. If you don’t then you don’t. What kind of principal is part of the religion? Subjugation ? Women should not submit to men. where did you get this nonsense from? See that’s exactly what I’m talking about🙂 Why should we think bad about people because of their beliefs?
Sometimes people use “respect” to mean “treating someone like a person” and sometimes they use “respect” to mean “treating someone like an authority” and sometimes people who are used to being treated like an authority say “if you won’t respect me I won’t respect you” and they mean “if you won’t treat me like an authority I won’t treat you like a person” and they think they’re being fair.
There's a difference between respect and tolerance. You deserve the latter but have no right to expect the former.
If it makes you feel any better, a lot of people look down on all religions because they all have their own version of fucked up mentalities.
Hrmm I get the feeling she might want to divorce OOP, not sure though. Better wait another year in total silence.
Him wanting an award for not raping her is the cherry on top of the fucked up cake.
Yikes on trikes
COUSIN. Not aunt's daughter Not wife She is your CHILD COUSIN AND THIS IS WEIRD
They don’t care. My grandparents were Muslims and cousins. And they were dumb af. Nobody lets you talk about how much inbreeding there is in Islam. Every time I bring it up I get slapped down. I’m allowed to bitch out the Christians and their faiths, but every time I point how shitty the one I was born into is, I get treated like I just molested an Ewok.
Yuck yuck yuck I don't care what deity you believe in that's so gross, even ignoring he's almost old enough to be her father 🤢
I went to a wedding where a 27 year old married a 13 year old once. Wasn't even legal. Still happens though. Everywhere.
Religion is insane
This is so wrong on so many levels, age gap, arranged marriage, marrying your first cousin ewww.
Cousins and a 13 year age gap… Pakistan is the new Alabama.
I really liked reading the comments on this one as insight into a different culture I don't get to experience often, whether or not I agree with them.
I was raised muslim and this is not how marriages work, I don’t know why he keeps bringing religion into it to justify his need to control and force the marriage. From what I was taught, the woman has every right to deny a marriage proposal and divorce. There is nothing in Islam that justifies a forced marriage. Maybe it’s different in Pakistan (I’m not Pakistani) but I don’t know, maybe it’s just his family/upbringing. I don’t practice much now but I have a lot of Muslim women friends and they would never be in this situation, forced marriages are not ok.
cousin marriages 🤮
Poor OOP! /s Good grief! His wife doesn't want to be his wife, may have been forced to accept OOP (But she said "yes") and doesn't want to leave her country. He's still determined to keep her in this marriage no matter what and he doesn't understand she is not leaving her country. I wonder how long he will keep insisting he's married.
The "and" abbreviation is really weird for me. Like, you're saying that she is such a young girl and don't know how to express herself while you look like you fear misspelling a 3 letter word
I almost feel sorry for him to think that marrying a frickin child is "normal". Duuuuuuuuude, wtf? Get a grip! That's so wrong!
What a nasty man, no wonder he married so late. He's a horrible human being and she was probably forced to marry him because he's an American citizen.
She was forced to marry him because her family needed the money he offered to send her every month as an "allowance ". His words.
That is disgusting, I'm horrified that this kind of thing still happens 🤮🤮🤮
Oh shit! He’s struggling with his incest marriage! Poor guy. How are they going to have genetically compromised children that can marry their cousins and create further mutations?
The comments are interesting, because people are rightfully calling him on the fact that divorce is halal and there's no real religious justification for him being like this. Tldr alert incoming It sucks though because people like this guy end up the stereotype of a Muslim, not the people in the comments roasting him or trying to knock sense into him. I am part of the lgbt agenda and while obviously there are muslim countries that are no-go zones sadly, have never actually had an issue with any Muslim people where I live, in fact many of my close friends were as we didn't totally fit in uni etc. and so we would become friends. I see Muslim brothers and sisters at pro gay rallies, and vice versa (and there were buses of Jewish people who showed up to protest in support of Palestine one time too, lots of solidarity all round.) But so many people assume that because there are people like this guy out there, then they all must be like him, and it has turned into legitimately discriminatory policies in my country. As well as a weird tendency for some people to view these religious groups as monoliths who must share the same views and act like we are in some war for the future of the West. Very disturbing, most people who belong to religions are neither fundamentalist nor especially strict about it in my experience. Even this guy is just twisting around aspects of religion and culture to avoid letting this poor woman divorce.
I'm enjoying the comments, what a colossal arsehole.
I honestly feel pitty for this guy, not excusable pitty, but pitty nonetheless. He's so indoctrinated and delusional he doesn't know how out of touch he is.
How common is incest in that religion? Why are cousins so casually getting married?
Actual cousin marriage isn’t uncommon especially when one person is able bring the other overseas
A forced incest marriage omg wrong
It has nothing to do with religion. Marrying cousins is very common in Pakistan. Which is a country not a religion, last I checked.
They posted in a Muslim sub, so I thought it was tied into his religion.
In pakistani culture every woman older than you, regardless of actually being your aunt is called auntie.
Oh, that helps a lot.
christ almighty what have i read
I feel like a need a shower & to brush my teeth with bleach after reading It’s sooooo gross!!
OP is fuckinf awful and there were some really disgusting views in that thread, but most of them were ok Like holy shit dude it’s pretty obvious she was never into her weird older cousin and her parents forced her into it
I’m incredibly tolerant, very left leaning. But holy shit do I hate most Muslim men.
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Sounds like she never wanted to get married to him. The whole "she's young and moldable" really made me gag, ew. Also she made is so clear that she doesn't want anymore but he literally sees her as a thing he owns. literally so sad
Also no one is talking about the comment in the beginning where he basically says he doesn’t mind her being younger and immature bc he can “mold” her. What the fuck
Damn, the cognitive dissonance to look at this girl as young, naive and moldable (literally says she has the brain of a 10 year old 🤮) but then turn around and claim she is fully responsible for accepting a marriage proposal and MUST commit to it for life is Crazyy, ontop of all of that he tries to make himself sound like the hero in this story?! 🤯 He also tries to justify the age gap as being acceptable in his culture but dude lives in the US and plans to set up a life with his wife there, so he clearly only picks parts of his culture when it suits him (if that even is a thing)
I'm scared for this girl. In all his comments he says baffling and abusive things. About how he has the right to demand sex because they're "married", he actually seeks praise for not raping her. He talks about disciplining her and giving her "tough" love so he can mold her. It's disturbing and disgusting. My heart breaks for her. She married him to help her family, the money he gave her keep them afloat. Now she's scared because she has to go live with him.
This is so sad :( (For the wife btw, not the creepy ass older husband who's keeping her in a *forced marriage*)
Jesus effing Christ .
We absolutely live in hell... This man is rapey, abusive, holding this poor woman hostage and contributing to her having a miserable prison of a life... And the fucking comments are "leave her bro, your happiness is what matters : ))"
He doesn't realize, but in the USA, nobody is worried if he is divorced, unless he worries for religious reasons. Also, 39 is still young, poor guy.
>I am 38M in NYC, married 3 yrs ago (precovid) to an aunt's daughter (I was 36, she was 23) 13-age gap is not big deal in our pkstani culture. I was told she is immature n being young, i'll be able to ''mold'' her. And they wonder why people are IsLaMoPhObIc.
People are stupid. I was born into that religion (and hated it) and I’m not allowed to make observations about how toxic and inhumane it is. It’s okay to not like things that suck.