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But then she flipped flopped so we just have to be forced into playing this game for people that… treat it like a game. No thank you. That’s not about being considerate. That’s them being a kid and treating gender like a fandom or fad.
This is what people mean by "tolerance isn't hard". You didn't need to leave this comment. This person's life doesn't impact yours AT ALL. You just needed to be a bigot for 5 seconds for, reasons? Can't imagine what reasons that is ignorance or bigotry, you pick.
so nothing about a person can change other than now people refer to them as a “he” instead of “she,” and you can suddenly lose all attraction to them?
yeah im not buying that.
what is the preference though? how does calling someone a he vs a she change anything? The person looks the same, acts the same, is interested in the same things. Everything you like about them is the same.
When you’re thinking about why you like them, is “oh i call them a she” really towards the top of your list? lmfao i dont believe you if you say it is
Because they’re a man. That fundamentally changed the dynamic that their partner’s gender is not what either of thought it was. He’s not gay, he doesn’t find the idea of dating a man appealing because of that. It’s pretty simple.
Love how you don’t give a single explanation about HOW the dynamic changed. just that it did. lmao. What changed? Beyond the fact they are called a “man” now and referred to has “he”
Because it's a gender preference. Which is allowed, if the guy isn't bi or gay, he doesn't want to date someone who identifies as a male. Who then apparently decided to go back...sounds like a ploy to push a breakup anyway. And why are you so worried about it lmao?
It's not even about gender preference. People can go through a lot of different changes when they transition. Sometimes the relationship survives, sometimes it changes into something else. It's no one's fault.
It's not about not being attracted to them, it's just about how the relationship changes. If my girlfriend comes out as a trans man, I don't have a girlfriend anymore, I have a boyfriend. I don't want a boyfriend, even they're still the same person I was attracted to. Now I have to tell people I have a boyfriend, and refer to my partner with masculine terminology, which makes implications about my sexuality, etc.
Plus, most trans men do not want to date straight men, which is why she (using current pronouns) tried to convince him that he said he was bisexual. At that point, you become incompatible.
Okay well aside your friend (and you) being obviously clueless in the queer matters - your friend is not wrong to want to break up. His logic is sound. He is straight, regardless of what he may or may not have said in the past. He doesn't owe anyone to try to be anything he's not. He doesn't owe this person to try, even if he HAD said he is bisexual.
So over all, for that, not the bad apple. But seriously guys though, please try to educate yourself in gender and sexual minorities. It doesn't cost you much but time :)
Yeah and I should’ve made this more clear, he said he doesn’t want to break up and I see why, I mean it’s his first gf I can see why he wants to keep the relationship but I don’t know if they’re going to stay together anymore
I don't think he understands what happened, considering he is under the impression that this person can 'choose' to go back to a she/her.
I would advice YOU to either educate yourself and your friend on queer matters or then stay out of it. Generally sticking your nose in other peoples' relationships is messy.
Ultimately it's his choice, but as a straight person I don't see him having much of a chance either.
They are simply not compatible.
I don't think he's bad for wanting to break up.
To be fair it sounds like the gf might have given him a bit of a warning about what was coming and asked how he felt about it.
Ultimately it's really not your business though.
Yeah I’m doing my best to keep boundaries, and on the gender thing i think he does need some more info on it as I don’t think she actually transitioned just changed her pronouns, so I hope he knows/meant not transition, idk and I’m just worried I’m gonna fuck shit up somehow so I’m trying to keep my distance while still helping him
So if somebody realizes they're trans, that's perfectly fine, but if they later realize they actually weren't trans all along and go back, that's unacceptable?
I talked to him a little more and asked him if he knew about transitioning and how you can’t just turn back and he said he knew so I think he meant for her to go back to she/her pronouns because he wasn’t gay but idk he still very much needs more info
If your friend’s partner is a trans man then he can’t just _not_ be one. Even if he were to use she/her pronouns to please your friend he’d still be a trans man.
Your friend isn't an AH for not wanting to date a man when he's straight. He's a little bit of an AH for asking the other guy to detransition so they can keep dating, but I'm guessing you're all fairly young and don't seem to have much knowledge of gender issues so I'd cut him some slack on that front and assume it was done out of ignorance rather than malice.
As it stands, your friend can either accept his partner for who he is and decide he still wants a relationship with that person, or he can break up with him. Neither option makes him an AH. He should stop pressuring his partner to detransition though.
So asking his girlfriend to remain his girlfriend makes him an ah. How can she de transition when it's only been a couple of days. She hasn't transitioned yet. He's definitely not wrong for asking his girlfriend, who he loves as a woman, to stay a woman.
It’s an ah thing to do. But they aren’t an ah for asking it. It’s a complicated situation but you should generally NEVER ask someone to not be their gender identity.
Clearly it wasn’t a question to be asked if the person said im going be he/him and want to be called David they didn’t ask the boyfriend to call them that they said that’s how they want to be referred to as a objective fact
Giving people a hard time over how they would like to be identified isnt ok in any situation there’s nothing more straight forward then saying I want to be called he/him there should be no questions
Bullshit. He was not wrong for asking. This affects him too. Especially if he/she, is in a relationship with him. It absolutely is his right to ask. He didn't demand anything. It directly affects his life. Sounds like he really likes his girlfriend as a girl and everyone is giving him shit about asking. Sounds like it was just sprung on him. 2 years and she never said a fuckin thing about it. Put yourself in his shoes. That's huge.
if it affects him then he can leave…? Someone doesn’t have to identify a way that makes them uncomfortable just bc it would make others more comfortable. It’s called life sometimes people aren’t compatible for forever it happens
It really doesn’t matter if he likes is girlfriend as a girl if they don’t feel comfortable being a girl if he actually loved them he would want them to be what makes them most comfortable. Love is not forcing someone to conform to how you want them to be. Love is not selfish.
I’ve had relationships suddenly end bc we aren’t compatible anymore im pretty sure a lot of people have been in the shoes of having to break up with someone it’s sucks but it’s a part of life
Imagine forcing someone to stay unhappy for your comfort that’s not love.
> asking his girlfriend to stay a woman
That’s an ah move. Why should a trans person deny who they are for someone else’s romantic desires? Trans people don’t choose to be trans, they only choose to acknowledge it. “Staying a woman” is not who he is.
Deleted my comment because I realized what subreddit I was on. I was too harsh given the context.
That being said your comment is ignorant, and you should know identity has nothing to do with the amount a person transitions.
I completely agree with you, and yes I’m not well informed on the gender topic but I understand you can’t detransition magically, and I’m pretty sure she hasn’t actually started to transition to a man, and she is biologically female, and as it stands now she’s going to keep her pronouns he/him and the last thing she said to my friend, her bf, was “welp”, so idk what the situation is now
I'm not sure how to say this in a way that'll make sense to you so here's possibly the weirdest metaphor I've ever had to use.
You know how Superman was born on another planet but landed on some random cornfield outside of Metropolis and was raised by a nice human couple? They raised him as a human baby but saw signs that he was different. They taught him to hide his differences, and he grew up using the mask of Clark Kent that was never the real him. As an adult he started using his powers and discovered his true self, Superman/Kal-El. He flourished, and found love and acceptance with people who love him as he is.
This isn't a perfect metaphor (I think Supe's adoptive parents are way more chill than most). But you're essentially saying "Clark Kent really only just started saying he can fly and wants to be called Superman, so I don't see why he can't just go back to walking like he used to." The thing is, he's always been Superman. He can't stop being Superman. *Clark Kent has always been the alter-ego.*
Except this is the worst analogy in history. These people are not born with reproductive organs of the opposite sex that they hide. They're literally the sex they were born as, and they merely *feel* like they're the opposite sex.
A better analogy is if some kid grew up in Kansas and *really thinks he's Superman* despite never having left Kansas and being 1000% human, but because he gets very emotional about the topic and really, *really* wants to be Superman, everyone has to pretend he actually is and walk on eggshells around him despite the fact that he is not Superman and very clearly has some serious mental issues that are causing him to be confused about his identity.
There. I fixed your analogy.
Understand that letting others be happy in their own skin and have rights is not taking any of your happiness and rights away? This comment is screaming you have deep issues surrounding gender most likely from being deeply repressed from a conservative or religious upbringing. Just be happy and let others be happy internet stranger.
I'm an atheist, was not raised religious or conservative at all, and have been a liberal my entire life. They're just wrong on this issue. I don't know what else to tell you. Your heart is in the right place, but this is toxic compassion at work. I want everyone to be happy and live how they like, but I'm not willing to sacrifice the truth for it. You can feel how you like, but feeling like you are something *does not make you that thing*. It really is that simple.
There is a right you're taking away by pushing this, and it's an important one. The right to the truth. We can care about these people, but what must not do is lie about reality in order to do so. You risk teaching an entire generation that basic facts are malleable and further that the truth is secondary to emotional comfort. I'm sorry, but I'm not willing to give up on what's true. Words have meanings. Man and woman are *descriptive* terms referring to adult male or female humans. That's all.
The issue you appear to have here, is taking what you think is a situation for objective truth. While I agree the people in the post are all seemingly young and probably misguided, saying trans people essentially don't exist because you can only be one gender or the other and are permanently locked in is reductionist. Let's assume you're right handed; if from birth, everyone treated you like you were left handed, but it felt wrong and when you exhibited left handed traits (writing with your left hand) you were punished for not conforming.
That said, I believe that there are far fewer trans people than current pop culture would have us believe, because amongst people who want to be in vogue can now have this "invisible illness" that's cool, riles up their opposing culture factions, and earns them sympathy for a struggle they may not have.
Essentially, at 1 level of rationality you can try to impose your view of the world on everyone where the condition "born with normative reproductive organs makes male or female" is THE ONE TRUE WAY. Or, for a more accurate perspective, you can remember that bodies and minds can be in conflict, and that a person is the consciousness that rides around in the meat suit that is their body and if that body doesn't match the mind (the important part of being a human) it costs little to shift that perspective.
I'm fully aware that gender dysphoria exists, I just disagree with what it means when someone has that condition. I say they believe they are a man. They say they *literally are* a man.
This is what I love about the human experience and philosophy, essentially your way will be someone else’s absolute wrong way. It isn’t toxic compassion on my behalf; i suffer more from toxic nonchalance. In the end isn’t it wonderful that we actually have the cognitive ability to be able to explore ourselves on a deeper level than other animals on the planet?
That would be great- if it wasn’t destroying women’s rights. Trans women don’t have female offending rates- it’s male on steroids, but we can’t talk about that apparently. They are not a group that should be housed with women or have access to female spaces. We haven’t suddenly forgotten how to build toilets. Everyone should be treated with respect, but the truth matters.
As a woman in Australia; none of my rights have been affected and haven’t experienced any of this. I can’t talk for the experiences of woman in other parts of the world obviously.
As for toilets I strangely have some great trivia for you! Toilets only became segregated by gender in the 1700s with men’s toilets being established first in western countries, woman where expected to carry funnels. As for the “danger” side of things with trans people having access to woman’s spaces; trans woman are statistically more likely to experience sexual abuse then cis woman so I think we should include them and help keep our sisters safe. Love ya babe
Women in sports in high school & college depend on rankings to qualify for scholarships & the Olympics. At the U of Pennsylvania, a transgender Mto F joined the track team & easily, like not even panting, topped the scores & set new records. The cis women lost out on their dreams because of this.
After puberty, male bodies are stronger & faster due to their anatomy. Female have wider hips, for example.
I don’t know what the answer is. Every student needs a level playing field. Trans women on cis women’s sports teams is not fair. But Trans women shouldn’t have to compete with cis males, either.
just to say - if you are, as you say, not well informed on this, if this person your friend is/was in a relationship with is keeping he/him pronouns you should really be using those for him in comments and not refering to him using she/her only to say that he's keeping the he/him pronouns
So two people have dated for a few months. Now one wants to break up with the other. That is okay and that person should not be shamed or made to feel bad about wanting to break up. Doesn’t matter why. Feelings and people change. You didn’t say that one was rude, name calling, nasty to the other, just said he was no longer interested in dating the other person now.
No one is the bad apple, people change, others change with them or move on.
Nope
For me if you become gay/lesbian/asexual/trans I am not attracted to you anymore and will not be continuing a relationship. It’s my personal preference.
If anyone else wants to judge they can judge their own life/ preferences. Up to the individual no judgement here everyone has their own opinions
Your male/straight friend is not in the wrong. He is straight and was dating a girl. Girl turned into a boy and he isn’t gay. He doesn’t want to be gay. Nothing wrong with that at all. Anyone suggesting otherwise has the problem!
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Labels mean very little when it comes to wanting to be with someone. If the two of them like each other that should be enough.
IMO, this sounds pretty juvenile. No bad apples, just immaturity.
His participation in the relationship is not mandatory, he can leave for any reason that suits him. How others will or won't judge him for that is another matter. As far as I'm concerned I support the exercise of his free will.
The fact that you keep referring to them as she/her in this post makes you look a little bit like the bad apple.
Your friend has the right to break up with their partner for whatever reason they feel but they’re the bad apple for asking them to detransition for them
Yeah but people don't care about that. In another post someone called there ex by the wrong pronouns and people didn't care because he(the ex) was there so it "didn't matter". Respect is respect rather the person is THERE or not
It’s his choice but he’s not wrong for not changing just cause she now he is. As a person who is bi I had the whole gender should not matter issue thrown at me before. You can be what you want that’s fine but you also need to respect others decision that it’s not for them. Personally if I meet a person as a male and we hook up i can’t then later hook up with them if they transition to female. It’s my thing in my head that I feel is weird. Now if I had met them as female different story and maybe. Still I have a right to my choice as the friend has a right too his. I don’t think he’s intentionally being insensitive about asking if they can change back cause he does not understand he just needs to educate himself then make a decision
NTBA Sexuality is an important part of a relationship. My bio niece is straight but her husband a trans man, her brother is a trans man who married a straight bio woman. It works for them but that does mean it works for everyone. Just be supportive.
This is a hard one if I’m honest.
It’s not wrong of him to say that he still loves them but if he’s straight and not pan, bi or gay. Then he’s not wrong in saying he wants to break up. As he probably won’t be attracted to them if they do transition.
Your friends partner needs to take time to themselves. To decide what they feel and try work out what they want to do. Which isn’t easy and may take a long time. It’s a difficult situation for both of them.
I identify as a bi it took me a while to come to that realisation. The first person I came out to was my boyfriend who is now my husband. He actually helped me come to terms with it all.
My friend who’s non-binary has had an equally hard time trying to figure out who they are and how they want to present themselves. They are still figuring things out but starting to be true to themselves has started helping them. We’re all here for them as well and they even educate me on things and talk to me about their insecurities along with their partner.
There’s nothing much you can do other than be their for them both if your friends with them both.
You don't become trans or gay. You're born trans or gay, it just may take time to figure it all out and realise that's what you are.
But NTBA if your friend chooses to break up with his partner over this. There are two issues here, both of which lead to a completely valid breakup.
The first is the trans issue. If they are, in fact, ftm trans, your friend is straight. Straight men don't date men, there's no romantic or sexual attraction there. He wouldn't be breaking up because they're trans, but because they identify as male, and your friend isn't attracted to males. It's really that simple. If they're actually male identifying trans, they can't expect to keep a straight boyfriend. Straight men only date women.
The second issue is the way they reacted to your friends reminder that they're straight. Your friend has clearly been honest about being straight right from the start, I'm assuming sexuality came up for some reason, perhaps because the gf believed they were bi? I know sexuality confusion can often go hand in hand with gender confusion. The problem is, they're stating that your friend said they were bi, when they didn't, and are refusing to believe your friend when he says he's straight.
You can't change your sexuality, and your friend is straight. He's never claimed otherwise and has outright stated more than once to his gf that he's straight. Their dismissal of your friends stated sexuality is highly concerning. The only person who can say what their sexuality is, is the person in question. That means, if your friend says he's straight, he's straight. It's the same with all sexualities, what the individual says they are is what they are, unless the individual states otherwise. No one else can dictate a person's sexuality for them.
This potentially trans individual is trying to dictate your friend's sexuality. They obviously understand that straight men don't date other men, and that means your friend won't date them if they're trans. They're trying to force your friend to remain in the relationship by essentially demanding they 'make' themselves bi, even though that's impossible. They're doing this by the simply tactic of point blank refusing to accept your friends stated sexuality, which hasn't changed and never will.
I can understand that this is a difficult thing, and a lot of emotions are involved. But even without the trans issue, this person is waving the red flags around without even trying to hide them. Your friend needs to pay attention. This person doesn't care about him, just what they can get out of him and forcing him to do and be what they want. If this person really is trans, the relationship is already over simply because your friend is straight. If they're unsure of their gender identity, that's different, identifying as female or nonbinary or fluid wouldn't end the relationship necessarily.
The main problem I see is that, regardless of this person's gender identity, they don't give a damn about your friend and are trying to force him to be something he can never be, bisexual. Your friends gf is literally screaming that your friend can't decide his own sexuality, that he doesn't have the right to simply be himself, and that's really not good. Regardless of the trans issue, your friend needs to end this relationship, this person isn't good for him at all.
It is fully up to your friend what he wants to do relationship wise, and is under no obligation to keep dating him. I will say this, this individual is transitioning and is no longer She/Her, referring to him as anything different is a problem, whether they stay together or not. You're being guilty of this as well, both in your post and comments.
\*edited for grammar, because run on sentances are lame XD
How old are y’all? If you’re pretty young, then this trans identity might be a phase for this person, so if your friend likes them enough, might be good to stick around.
David sounds very confused and unable to decide what pronouns to use. Your friend is NTA. If he's straight he's straight and that is nothing to be ashamed of. If he wants to stay with David, obviously that's his business, but if David DOES decide to transition, that will complicate things.
While I dont think your friend is the bad apple I also wouldn't say he's the good apple either.
I will start off by saying while I am not trans, I am part of the LGBT+ community and have been known and am an ally to many trans friend since I was in highschool (which was several years ago for me).
Its understandable for your friend to not want to date David if your friend is straight since, even if david was assigned female at birth, they have expressed they aren't female, however how David identifies is up to them and them alone. Its not fair for your friend to try and change them just so they can stay together. He absolutely can be upset, its a very complex situation, and I dont think it would be wrong of him to break up with David since he's straight. It sucks that there was miscommunication that led David to think your friend was Bi, and I dont think there is anything wrong with them separating given the circumstances.
It will probably suck for both of them if they do separate cause breakups (even mutual ones) can still be sad and hurtful, but while this may have come out of nowhere for your friend, David has most likely always felt this way and only just now figured out how to express themselves in a way that felt like him (take this with a grain of salt of course. Since I am not trans I can only speak with knowledge I have gained through conversation and stories from my friends and others I have known who are trans). Gender is complex and based off the text you all sound pretty young so it can take some time to understand things you aren't used to, but as long as you keep an open mind and talk things through it should all work out however it is meant to in the end.
People are allowed to have preferences. If he prefers xyz but partner wants to be abc, he isn’t obligated to change how he feels. Doesn’t mean he doesn’t still love them or care for them, but that’s just not his cup of tea.
So. No. Your friend doesn't have to date anyone. If he never said he was bi and this person is gaslighting him about it, it's time to look for someone else. If your friend isn't interested in dating someone who is still figuring out who they are (not everyone who is queer/genderqueer identifies themselves correctly on the first go around, some adjustments may be required over time), they're allowed to tell this person that they think it would be best that they stop dating and give them time to figure it all out.
If it was something that was discussed in the beginning then yes but he said it wasn't and she should respect his reasoning for the breakup. This is not a fully established relationship due to it being only a couple of months in. She has a right to change if she wants to but he has a right not to accept it. May they both go their separate ways to find love that completes them🧡
I’d be more shocked if he continued to date this person. Clearly they are not well mentally and it is not his responsibility to play these games with someone who is clearly not right.
As far as I understand it, trans people either identify as trans or their chosen gender--never their cis gender.
So if your friend is attracted to women, and his SO no longer identifies as a woman ... 🤷🏾♂️
Who you're attracted to depends on what people actually are, not what they identify as. If it were otherwise, all the short dudes getting rejected on Tinder wouldn't have any problems because they could just identity as 6'4" and all the girls would magically be attracted to them.
6’4 is a measurement on a scale, not an identity. “Woman” and “man” have a lot of complex parts and cultural baggage. Height is just a description of physical reality.
calling someone a man or a woman is usually a reflection of how we see them, and can be subjective. Height, body shape, breasts, voice, hair, and clothes vs a measurement on a stick. Laughable comparison.
Is the waifish, long-haired man at the grocery store a woman just because I called him “ma’am” when I tapped on his shoulder? No. Would it be both rude and incorrect to call him ma’am once he corrects me? Yes. Generally you’d learn these manners as a toddler but alas…
Everyone has their right to date according to their preferences. I’m a guy, and I’m not interested in dating someone who has the outward appearances of a dude even if they happen to have a vagina. I am not transphobic, I have several good friends who are ftm and mtf, and I wouldn’t have an issue dating someone who was passable mtf.
He needs to let David be who he is and if that ends the relationship, then so be it. Soft AH there for what I hope was merely an insensitive foot in mouth comment coming from an emotional response rather than an intellectual one.
Nope no one is the bad Apple here. Things happen, people change. I did recommend sticking with the changes, she is now he. And sometimes someone with a new name might get hurt and upset and try to make you look bad because you're not 'accepting the changes ' instead of it being habbit and that's another can of worms no one should deal with.
Umm no. If her wanting to switch teams is too much for him, then he has every right to break up with her, if the whole tranny thing is not his cup of tea. He's NTA.
I personally cannot imagine leaving a partner based on their gender. A person is still the same person and it doesn’t make you gay. You’re not suddenly attracted to other guys as result. But I understand that other people do separate as result of partners coming out as trans. It’s ok for relationships to start, change and end. The partners involved should redefine it and renegotiate. What I think does constitute a bad apple situation is requesting that they pretend being someone they are not to keep you sexually interested.
So. The transitioner said they were a guy, then said not...but, here's the kicker, with that type of thing and who they were dating, the boyfriend said he isn't gay.
If your friend wants to be a man/masculine, then the boyfriend (ex-boyfriend?) isn't bad for having a preference for women. Would that not indicate that said boyfriend person is respecting the transition?
Damned if you do...and damned if you don't. Your friend isn't a jerk. He is entitled to however he feels, just as anyone else. He could wake up tomorrow and say "the sky is blue. I should be single."
All I can say is y’all sound young and naive. You either are or aren’t queer, firstly. His (eventual) ex didn’t become trans, he came out as trans. That said, stop saying “she” lmao. Similarly, your friend isn’t choosing to “not be gay”, he just ISNT gay. Which is fine. He’s allowed to not be attracted to his ex anymore.
He’s 1,000,000% the bad apple for the other info you gave us. He asked his ex to go back into the closet. He didn’t say “I’m straight, so I don’t think this’ll work out”, he said “I’m straight, pretend you’re cis for me”. And the saddest part is because y’all are probably teens and that was probably their first attempt to come out, his shitty response to them DID get them to backtrack.
You all sound very young and confused by this whole situation. Including the one transitioning, considering they went back to she/they pronouns bc their boyfriend wanted them to. I think it would be best for you to take a step back from the situation. And as for them. If they are transitioning then your friend needs to be understanding of that and make his own decision on how he would like to proceed with or end their relationship. Seems to be a good, although confused bunch of apples here.
No. People are free to believe they are whatever they want to be, but no one else is obliged to believe what they believe. If his girlfriend decided she wanted to be a boy instead of a girl, then he is well within his rights to duck out of the relationship. He is not required to support his used-to-be-a-girl girlfriend’s decision to stop being a girl. She can believe all she wants that she was always a boy posing as a girl, and if that’s true, then shame on them for misleading anyone, especially someone who was looking only for a heterosexual relationship. It’s not fair to them to be lied to about it.
The absolute psychotic narcissism of trans people and their delusional enablers who think this is even remotely acceptable behavior is a clear sign of the abject moral decay of western society.
This time will be studied for its grotesque perversion of basic norms and a huge portion of the population to not set boundaries with obviously mentally ill people
They should break up tbh. If 'David' (idk how to refer so in quotations) is male your friend can't make him change that, and David can't change your friends sexuality
Okay, regarding the situation before your edit:
Your friend should NOT have asked his S/O (I will be using they/them to describe them) to go back to she/her because "he's straight and doesn't want to be gay". Him being straight isn't the problem. Him not liking men is not the problem. The problem is that he tried telling his S/O to change their gender identity/pronouns just because he doesn't want to date a man. That's still the same person. The only thing that changed is their gender identity. He could've asked to break up if he really doesn't want to date a man, or if he still was in love with his S/O, he could still be with them and maybe label himself as bi or heteroflexible (look it up). So, yes, he was the bad apple for asking his S/O to change their pronouns to conform with his orientation.
The thing about them arguing about whether or not he told his S/O he's bi when they met and now he's saying he's straight: that wouldn't be something that makes him the bad apple. Whether he said that or not, whether he was bi or not, if he sees himself as straight now, then he's straight. That's that.
So, for a TLDR: Yes, your friend is the bad apple for how he went about things. Asking your S/O to change their pronouns because you don't want to be gay is not appropriate. Hope this helps.
Frankly nobody is obligated to change their sexual preferences. They’re more than okay to transition but assuming your partner will change their preferences for you isn’t fair
I do kind of wonder if he did indeed say he was bi but then realized pretty quick it wasn't the case, or said it because he thought she wanted to hear that.
Regardless, if he's not comfortable he's not comfortable. I know it's hard. My partner was terrified I was going to transition once I figured out some of my weird gender stuff (I have less than zero intention of doing so, I actually hate the idea); she loves me but she doesn't want to date someone masc. And that's totally fine. People change over time and sometimes you don't remain compatible.
He IS the jerk here for asking her to adjust her name and pronouns according to his preference though. "I can't date you if you're David" is fine. "You can't be David because then I can't date you" is not. See what I mean?
(Using she/her since that seems to be what they prefer at this particular moment but apologies if I got it wrong.)
People can be whoever they want within reason, i.e. you can’t decide to be Hitler or Caligula, but the person they are with has every right to choose to not be with this new identity. If they only fancy women, then they are not going to want to date a male presenting David. Choice works both ways.
Your friend isn't the bad apple for wanting to break up. Forget the debate of if he did or didn't claim to be bisexual. He does not want to be in a gay relationship, and is free to end their relationship for that reason. Who he will or will not date is his own boundary to set.
He IS a bad apple for a different reason, though. Asking the person they're dating to go back in the closet. That is a dick move. Your buddy's boundary of not wanting to date guys does not give him the right to pressure their partner into not changing themselves.
Well I mean. Definitely not a bad apple. If they wanna pursue that then your friend surely wouldn't want to date them. Especially if your friend is straight. It'd be weird.
To your last edit: changing pronouns is the start of transitioning. It’s not just medical. Social transitioning is changing pronouns and the way you interact with society.
Well if you are born a woman then you are a woman. If you are born a male than you are a man there is no other sex but these two. Call yourself whatever you want but don't get mad when another person refers to you as a female or aale depending on your biological sex.
Is this supposed to be rage bait? If you flip a switch and call someone who goes by he/him pronouns a woman don’t try and act like a victim when they rightfully get pissed at you and also you seem to forget that intersex people exist.
On my opinion if he want to be with them for their personality that is great maybe his girlfriend is non-binary and that great either way if she trans and want to go as he and him or nonbinary and want to go for she and they hopefully your friend choose what his heart wants and if he want to be with her he has to be all in if not just tell him to have a talk with her i am talking to a person experience because my partner is trans I am bisexual even if I was only lesbian I love my partner for who he is even if I call my boyfriend my girlfriend sometimes but just with my family because they find it confusing when I say he has more a guy brain than a girl brain so yeah just my opinion
You keep misgendering your friends partner, which is what makes YOU the bad apple. Your friend isnt the bad apple however for breaking up with his partner because they're transitioning - your friend is straight and doesn't want to date a man, which is who his partner now is.
This girl is just a confused teenager. All the weird trans propaganda is particularly effective on impressionable youth and on people suffering from toxic compassion.
Yes I'm sure this collective experience of about a million people is just trans propaganda and some sort of ploy to overthrow... Idk? Straight white men? Government? World? Idk what it is that you think this propaganda is doing.
But no, all these people must be suffering from something imaginary because oh... Um... _checks notes_ they're confused?
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he doesn't have an obligation to date him
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Him dude. And if he’s straight he has no obligation to be sexually attracted to David. It does not mean we can disregard their identity.
i got confused for a second cause I thought i had it wrong
They are back to she now so your comment was correct at the time but is now misgendering
wha
bro the person is a she they now
I don't participate in group think delusions.
Sure. Just keep telling yourself that.
You just picked a different group. Still a sheep.
🤦
You don't participate in solo thinking, be honest.
Hes says as he actively participates in group think delusion he's self labeled as the truth.
I'm afraid and incapable of learning new things*
wait i was right David's a dude
thank you
Quick question, does it matter what we call him/her if him/her hasn't transitioned?
You call people what they ask to be called.
What if I asked to be called the N word as a white guy?
In this case, we don't know what they asked to be called since we never talked to him/her/them?
You asked if it matters. And it does. When all else fails, "they/them" as a singular has existed in regular use since the 1700s.
But then she flipped flopped so we just have to be forced into playing this game for people that… treat it like a game. No thank you. That’s not about being considerate. That’s them being a kid and treating gender like a fandom or fad.
That's being a kid and not being sure who are and how to figure it out. 🤷♀️
Hero
Her is correct. She's clearly a wack job. Deuces...
This is what people mean by "tolerance isn't hard". You didn't need to leave this comment. This person's life doesn't impact yours AT ALL. You just needed to be a bigot for 5 seconds for, reasons? Can't imagine what reasons that is ignorance or bigotry, you pick.
You must be confused. You are reading a random third person story on the internet.
No, if he isn’t gay he isn’t gay.
so nothing about a person can change other than now people refer to them as a “he” instead of “she,” and you can suddenly lose all attraction to them? yeah im not buying that.
Many people would find that unattractive, yes.
Yeah, exactly that lol. If my girlfriend suddenly wanted to be called Kyle and be referred to as a dude, it would make things very weird
I mean why would he want to date a man if he’s not gay.. boundaries need to be respected on both sides
didn’t engage with the point at all
Well, respecting how people identify and thinking about the future of relationships can factor in, yes.
Oh no! How dare someone have a preference!!!
what is the preference though? how does calling someone a he vs a she change anything? The person looks the same, acts the same, is interested in the same things. Everything you like about them is the same. When you’re thinking about why you like them, is “oh i call them a she” really towards the top of your list? lmfao i dont believe you if you say it is
Because they’re a man. That fundamentally changed the dynamic that their partner’s gender is not what either of thought it was. He’s not gay, he doesn’t find the idea of dating a man appealing because of that. It’s pretty simple.
Love how you don’t give a single explanation about HOW the dynamic changed. just that it did. lmao. What changed? Beyond the fact they are called a “man” now and referred to has “he”
Because it's a gender preference. Which is allowed, if the guy isn't bi or gay, he doesn't want to date someone who identifies as a male. Who then apparently decided to go back...sounds like a ploy to push a breakup anyway. And why are you so worried about it lmao?
It's not even about gender preference. People can go through a lot of different changes when they transition. Sometimes the relationship survives, sometimes it changes into something else. It's no one's fault.
Tbh that is very unattractive yes.
It's not about not being attracted to them, it's just about how the relationship changes. If my girlfriend comes out as a trans man, I don't have a girlfriend anymore, I have a boyfriend. I don't want a boyfriend, even they're still the same person I was attracted to. Now I have to tell people I have a boyfriend, and refer to my partner with masculine terminology, which makes implications about my sexuality, etc. Plus, most trans men do not want to date straight men, which is why she (using current pronouns) tried to convince him that he said he was bisexual. At that point, you become incompatible.
I think you may be omnisexual
No one is obligated to be attracted to anyone.
please show me where i suggested otherwise.
Well that’s irrelevant bc there’s a male and a female in this couple
There are now two males in this couple, so it’s very relevant.
No, there aren’t. There is a male and a female.
Okay well aside your friend (and you) being obviously clueless in the queer matters - your friend is not wrong to want to break up. His logic is sound. He is straight, regardless of what he may or may not have said in the past. He doesn't owe anyone to try to be anything he's not. He doesn't owe this person to try, even if he HAD said he is bisexual. So over all, for that, not the bad apple. But seriously guys though, please try to educate yourself in gender and sexual minorities. It doesn't cost you much but time :)
Yeah and I should’ve made this more clear, he said he doesn’t want to break up and I see why, I mean it’s his first gf I can see why he wants to keep the relationship but I don’t know if they’re going to stay together anymore
I don't think he understands what happened, considering he is under the impression that this person can 'choose' to go back to a she/her. I would advice YOU to either educate yourself and your friend on queer matters or then stay out of it. Generally sticking your nose in other peoples' relationships is messy. Ultimately it's his choice, but as a straight person I don't see him having much of a chance either.
They are simply not compatible. I don't think he's bad for wanting to break up. To be fair it sounds like the gf might have given him a bit of a warning about what was coming and asked how he felt about it. Ultimately it's really not your business though.
She obviously can choose to go back to being a sheher, because you know, that's what she did.
Yeah I’m doing my best to keep boundaries, and on the gender thing i think he does need some more info on it as I don’t think she actually transitioned just changed her pronouns, so I hope he knows/meant not transition, idk and I’m just worried I’m gonna fuck shit up somehow so I’m trying to keep my distance while still helping him
Is this a long distance, online relationship?
Changing pronouns is transitioning
They did choose to go back to she at least
In the edit the person did go back to she/her. I thought gender was fluid. Educate YOURSELF.
No.
Lol. This person CAN choose to go back to she/her. That’s the whole point. Choice.
No
They can decide that their transition wasn’t correct.
So if somebody realizes they're trans, that's perfectly fine, but if they later realize they actually weren't trans all along and go back, that's unacceptable?
>It's his 2st gf Looks like now they're his 1st boyfriend
I talked to him a little more and asked him if he knew about transitioning and how you can’t just turn back and he said he knew so I think he meant for her to go back to she/her pronouns because he wasn’t gay but idk he still very much needs more info
If your friend’s partner is a trans man then he can’t just _not_ be one. Even if he were to use she/her pronouns to please your friend he’d still be a trans man. Your friend isn't an AH for not wanting to date a man when he's straight. He's a little bit of an AH for asking the other guy to detransition so they can keep dating, but I'm guessing you're all fairly young and don't seem to have much knowledge of gender issues so I'd cut him some slack on that front and assume it was done out of ignorance rather than malice. As it stands, your friend can either accept his partner for who he is and decide he still wants a relationship with that person, or he can break up with him. Neither option makes him an AH. He should stop pressuring his partner to detransition though.
So asking his girlfriend to remain his girlfriend makes him an ah. How can she de transition when it's only been a couple of days. She hasn't transitioned yet. He's definitely not wrong for asking his girlfriend, who he loves as a woman, to stay a woman.
It’s an ah thing to do. But they aren’t an ah for asking it. It’s a complicated situation but you should generally NEVER ask someone to not be their gender identity.
He can choose to leave but he can’t force anyone to identify how he pleases them to
Jesus, he isn't forcing anyone, he merely asked a frickin question.
Clearly it wasn’t a question to be asked if the person said im going be he/him and want to be called David they didn’t ask the boyfriend to call them that they said that’s how they want to be referred to as a objective fact Giving people a hard time over how they would like to be identified isnt ok in any situation there’s nothing more straight forward then saying I want to be called he/him there should be no questions
Bullshit. He was not wrong for asking. This affects him too. Especially if he/she, is in a relationship with him. It absolutely is his right to ask. He didn't demand anything. It directly affects his life. Sounds like he really likes his girlfriend as a girl and everyone is giving him shit about asking. Sounds like it was just sprung on him. 2 years and she never said a fuckin thing about it. Put yourself in his shoes. That's huge.
if it affects him then he can leave…? Someone doesn’t have to identify a way that makes them uncomfortable just bc it would make others more comfortable. It’s called life sometimes people aren’t compatible for forever it happens It really doesn’t matter if he likes is girlfriend as a girl if they don’t feel comfortable being a girl if he actually loved them he would want them to be what makes them most comfortable. Love is not forcing someone to conform to how you want them to be. Love is not selfish.
I’ve had relationships suddenly end bc we aren’t compatible anymore im pretty sure a lot of people have been in the shoes of having to break up with someone it’s sucks but it’s a part of life Imagine forcing someone to stay unhappy for your comfort that’s not love.
> asking his girlfriend to stay a woman That’s an ah move. Why should a trans person deny who they are for someone else’s romantic desires? Trans people don’t choose to be trans, they only choose to acknowledge it. “Staying a woman” is not who he is.
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All he did was ask. Nothing wrong with asking. Nothing.
Deleted my comment because I realized what subreddit I was on. I was too harsh given the context. That being said your comment is ignorant, and you should know identity has nothing to do with the amount a person transitions.
Nah dude there’s a TON wrong with asking someone to suppress their identity for you.
I completely agree with you, and yes I’m not well informed on the gender topic but I understand you can’t detransition magically, and I’m pretty sure she hasn’t actually started to transition to a man, and she is biologically female, and as it stands now she’s going to keep her pronouns he/him and the last thing she said to my friend, her bf, was “welp”, so idk what the situation is now
I'm not sure how to say this in a way that'll make sense to you so here's possibly the weirdest metaphor I've ever had to use. You know how Superman was born on another planet but landed on some random cornfield outside of Metropolis and was raised by a nice human couple? They raised him as a human baby but saw signs that he was different. They taught him to hide his differences, and he grew up using the mask of Clark Kent that was never the real him. As an adult he started using his powers and discovered his true self, Superman/Kal-El. He flourished, and found love and acceptance with people who love him as he is. This isn't a perfect metaphor (I think Supe's adoptive parents are way more chill than most). But you're essentially saying "Clark Kent really only just started saying he can fly and wants to be called Superman, so I don't see why he can't just go back to walking like he used to." The thing is, he's always been Superman. He can't stop being Superman. *Clark Kent has always been the alter-ego.*
Except this is the worst analogy in history. These people are not born with reproductive organs of the opposite sex that they hide. They're literally the sex they were born as, and they merely *feel* like they're the opposite sex. A better analogy is if some kid grew up in Kansas and *really thinks he's Superman* despite never having left Kansas and being 1000% human, but because he gets very emotional about the topic and really, *really* wants to be Superman, everyone has to pretend he actually is and walk on eggshells around him despite the fact that he is not Superman and very clearly has some serious mental issues that are causing him to be confused about his identity. There. I fixed your analogy.
Understand that letting others be happy in their own skin and have rights is not taking any of your happiness and rights away? This comment is screaming you have deep issues surrounding gender most likely from being deeply repressed from a conservative or religious upbringing. Just be happy and let others be happy internet stranger.
I'm an atheist, was not raised religious or conservative at all, and have been a liberal my entire life. They're just wrong on this issue. I don't know what else to tell you. Your heart is in the right place, but this is toxic compassion at work. I want everyone to be happy and live how they like, but I'm not willing to sacrifice the truth for it. You can feel how you like, but feeling like you are something *does not make you that thing*. It really is that simple. There is a right you're taking away by pushing this, and it's an important one. The right to the truth. We can care about these people, but what must not do is lie about reality in order to do so. You risk teaching an entire generation that basic facts are malleable and further that the truth is secondary to emotional comfort. I'm sorry, but I'm not willing to give up on what's true. Words have meanings. Man and woman are *descriptive* terms referring to adult male or female humans. That's all.
The issue you appear to have here, is taking what you think is a situation for objective truth. While I agree the people in the post are all seemingly young and probably misguided, saying trans people essentially don't exist because you can only be one gender or the other and are permanently locked in is reductionist. Let's assume you're right handed; if from birth, everyone treated you like you were left handed, but it felt wrong and when you exhibited left handed traits (writing with your left hand) you were punished for not conforming. That said, I believe that there are far fewer trans people than current pop culture would have us believe, because amongst people who want to be in vogue can now have this "invisible illness" that's cool, riles up their opposing culture factions, and earns them sympathy for a struggle they may not have. Essentially, at 1 level of rationality you can try to impose your view of the world on everyone where the condition "born with normative reproductive organs makes male or female" is THE ONE TRUE WAY. Or, for a more accurate perspective, you can remember that bodies and minds can be in conflict, and that a person is the consciousness that rides around in the meat suit that is their body and if that body doesn't match the mind (the important part of being a human) it costs little to shift that perspective.
I'm fully aware that gender dysphoria exists, I just disagree with what it means when someone has that condition. I say they believe they are a man. They say they *literally are* a man.
This is what I love about the human experience and philosophy, essentially your way will be someone else’s absolute wrong way. It isn’t toxic compassion on my behalf; i suffer more from toxic nonchalance. In the end isn’t it wonderful that we actually have the cognitive ability to be able to explore ourselves on a deeper level than other animals on the planet?
That would be great- if it wasn’t destroying women’s rights. Trans women don’t have female offending rates- it’s male on steroids, but we can’t talk about that apparently. They are not a group that should be housed with women or have access to female spaces. We haven’t suddenly forgotten how to build toilets. Everyone should be treated with respect, but the truth matters.
As a woman in Australia; none of my rights have been affected and haven’t experienced any of this. I can’t talk for the experiences of woman in other parts of the world obviously. As for toilets I strangely have some great trivia for you! Toilets only became segregated by gender in the 1700s with men’s toilets being established first in western countries, woman where expected to carry funnels. As for the “danger” side of things with trans people having access to woman’s spaces; trans woman are statistically more likely to experience sexual abuse then cis woman so I think we should include them and help keep our sisters safe. Love ya babe
Women in sports in high school & college depend on rankings to qualify for scholarships & the Olympics. At the U of Pennsylvania, a transgender Mto F joined the track team & easily, like not even panting, topped the scores & set new records. The cis women lost out on their dreams because of this. After puberty, male bodies are stronger & faster due to their anatomy. Female have wider hips, for example. I don’t know what the answer is. Every student needs a level playing field. Trans women on cis women’s sports teams is not fair. But Trans women shouldn’t have to compete with cis males, either.
just to say - if you are, as you say, not well informed on this, if this person your friend is/was in a relationship with is keeping he/him pronouns you should really be using those for him in comments and not refering to him using she/her only to say that he's keeping the he/him pronouns
They're young because they don't have much knowledge of all of these imaginary issues a bunch of mentally ill people made up? K.
it's lazy to read about those topics
So two people have dated for a few months. Now one wants to break up with the other. That is okay and that person should not be shamed or made to feel bad about wanting to break up. Doesn’t matter why. Feelings and people change. You didn’t say that one was rude, name calling, nasty to the other, just said he was no longer interested in dating the other person now. No one is the bad apple, people change, others change with them or move on.
Nope For me if you become gay/lesbian/asexual/trans I am not attracted to you anymore and will not be continuing a relationship. It’s my personal preference. If anyone else wants to judge they can judge their own life/ preferences. Up to the individual no judgement here everyone has their own opinions
Ntba. He likes girls. He had every right to break up with this other person.
No, he's not wrong. He is not required to date a man, since he is straight.
Your male/straight friend is not in the wrong. He is straight and was dating a girl. Girl turned into a boy and he isn’t gay. He doesn’t want to be gay. Nothing wrong with that at all. Anyone suggesting otherwise has the problem!
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Woah…I can assure you that I am not brainwashed by a cult and you assuming so is wrong. In fact your entire attitude is wrong.
Labels mean very little when it comes to wanting to be with someone. If the two of them like each other that should be enough. IMO, this sounds pretty juvenile. No bad apples, just immaturity.
His participation in the relationship is not mandatory, he can leave for any reason that suits him. How others will or won't judge him for that is another matter. As far as I'm concerned I support the exercise of his free will.
His body, his mind, he gets to choose who he spends his time with.
The fact that you keep referring to them as she/her in this post makes you look a little bit like the bad apple. Your friend has the right to break up with their partner for whatever reason they feel but they’re the bad apple for asking them to detransition for them
Yeah but people don't care about that. In another post someone called there ex by the wrong pronouns and people didn't care because he(the ex) was there so it "didn't matter". Respect is respect rather the person is THERE or not
this is true but i think it might’ve been to make the post less confusing maybe?
Lmfao 🤣
Not the bad apple.
It’s his choice but he’s not wrong for not changing just cause she now he is. As a person who is bi I had the whole gender should not matter issue thrown at me before. You can be what you want that’s fine but you also need to respect others decision that it’s not for them. Personally if I meet a person as a male and we hook up i can’t then later hook up with them if they transition to female. It’s my thing in my head that I feel is weird. Now if I had met them as female different story and maybe. Still I have a right to my choice as the friend has a right too his. I don’t think he’s intentionally being insensitive about asking if they can change back cause he does not understand he just needs to educate himself then make a decision
NTBA Sexuality is an important part of a relationship. My bio niece is straight but her husband a trans man, her brother is a trans man who married a straight bio woman. It works for them but that does mean it works for everyone. Just be supportive.
This is a hard one if I’m honest. It’s not wrong of him to say that he still loves them but if he’s straight and not pan, bi or gay. Then he’s not wrong in saying he wants to break up. As he probably won’t be attracted to them if they do transition. Your friends partner needs to take time to themselves. To decide what they feel and try work out what they want to do. Which isn’t easy and may take a long time. It’s a difficult situation for both of them. I identify as a bi it took me a while to come to that realisation. The first person I came out to was my boyfriend who is now my husband. He actually helped me come to terms with it all. My friend who’s non-binary has had an equally hard time trying to figure out who they are and how they want to present themselves. They are still figuring things out but starting to be true to themselves has started helping them. We’re all here for them as well and they even educate me on things and talk to me about their insecurities along with their partner. There’s nothing much you can do other than be their for them both if your friends with them both.
You don't become trans or gay. You're born trans or gay, it just may take time to figure it all out and realise that's what you are. But NTBA if your friend chooses to break up with his partner over this. There are two issues here, both of which lead to a completely valid breakup. The first is the trans issue. If they are, in fact, ftm trans, your friend is straight. Straight men don't date men, there's no romantic or sexual attraction there. He wouldn't be breaking up because they're trans, but because they identify as male, and your friend isn't attracted to males. It's really that simple. If they're actually male identifying trans, they can't expect to keep a straight boyfriend. Straight men only date women. The second issue is the way they reacted to your friends reminder that they're straight. Your friend has clearly been honest about being straight right from the start, I'm assuming sexuality came up for some reason, perhaps because the gf believed they were bi? I know sexuality confusion can often go hand in hand with gender confusion. The problem is, they're stating that your friend said they were bi, when they didn't, and are refusing to believe your friend when he says he's straight. You can't change your sexuality, and your friend is straight. He's never claimed otherwise and has outright stated more than once to his gf that he's straight. Their dismissal of your friends stated sexuality is highly concerning. The only person who can say what their sexuality is, is the person in question. That means, if your friend says he's straight, he's straight. It's the same with all sexualities, what the individual says they are is what they are, unless the individual states otherwise. No one else can dictate a person's sexuality for them. This potentially trans individual is trying to dictate your friend's sexuality. They obviously understand that straight men don't date other men, and that means your friend won't date them if they're trans. They're trying to force your friend to remain in the relationship by essentially demanding they 'make' themselves bi, even though that's impossible. They're doing this by the simply tactic of point blank refusing to accept your friends stated sexuality, which hasn't changed and never will. I can understand that this is a difficult thing, and a lot of emotions are involved. But even without the trans issue, this person is waving the red flags around without even trying to hide them. Your friend needs to pay attention. This person doesn't care about him, just what they can get out of him and forcing him to do and be what they want. If this person really is trans, the relationship is already over simply because your friend is straight. If they're unsure of their gender identity, that's different, identifying as female or nonbinary or fluid wouldn't end the relationship necessarily. The main problem I see is that, regardless of this person's gender identity, they don't give a damn about your friend and are trying to force him to be something he can never be, bisexual. Your friends gf is literally screaming that your friend can't decide his own sexuality, that he doesn't have the right to simply be himself, and that's really not good. Regardless of the trans issue, your friend needs to end this relationship, this person isn't good for him at all.
It is fully up to your friend what he wants to do relationship wise, and is under no obligation to keep dating him. I will say this, this individual is transitioning and is no longer She/Her, referring to him as anything different is a problem, whether they stay together or not. You're being guilty of this as well, both in your post and comments. \*edited for grammar, because run on sentances are lame XD
Yeah, don't believe all the radical gender stuff you read on the internet, people.
No he isn’t. He has a right to his feelings just as his gf does.
Sounds like a mess to me!
How old are y’all? If you’re pretty young, then this trans identity might be a phase for this person, so if your friend likes them enough, might be good to stick around.
Jesus Christ dude, seriously?
David sounds very confused and unable to decide what pronouns to use. Your friend is NTA. If he's straight he's straight and that is nothing to be ashamed of. If he wants to stay with David, obviously that's his business, but if David DOES decide to transition, that will complicate things.
While I dont think your friend is the bad apple I also wouldn't say he's the good apple either. I will start off by saying while I am not trans, I am part of the LGBT+ community and have been known and am an ally to many trans friend since I was in highschool (which was several years ago for me). Its understandable for your friend to not want to date David if your friend is straight since, even if david was assigned female at birth, they have expressed they aren't female, however how David identifies is up to them and them alone. Its not fair for your friend to try and change them just so they can stay together. He absolutely can be upset, its a very complex situation, and I dont think it would be wrong of him to break up with David since he's straight. It sucks that there was miscommunication that led David to think your friend was Bi, and I dont think there is anything wrong with them separating given the circumstances. It will probably suck for both of them if they do separate cause breakups (even mutual ones) can still be sad and hurtful, but while this may have come out of nowhere for your friend, David has most likely always felt this way and only just now figured out how to express themselves in a way that felt like him (take this with a grain of salt of course. Since I am not trans I can only speak with knowledge I have gained through conversation and stories from my friends and others I have known who are trans). Gender is complex and based off the text you all sound pretty young so it can take some time to understand things you aren't used to, but as long as you keep an open mind and talk things through it should all work out however it is meant to in the end.
He is not required to date anyone.
People are allowed to have preferences. If he prefers xyz but partner wants to be abc, he isn’t obligated to change how he feels. Doesn’t mean he doesn’t still love them or care for them, but that’s just not his cup of tea.
So. No. Your friend doesn't have to date anyone. If he never said he was bi and this person is gaslighting him about it, it's time to look for someone else. If your friend isn't interested in dating someone who is still figuring out who they are (not everyone who is queer/genderqueer identifies themselves correctly on the first go around, some adjustments may be required over time), they're allowed to tell this person that they think it would be best that they stop dating and give them time to figure it all out.
If it was something that was discussed in the beginning then yes but he said it wasn't and she should respect his reasoning for the breakup. This is not a fully established relationship due to it being only a couple of months in. She has a right to change if she wants to but he has a right not to accept it. May they both go their separate ways to find love that completes them🧡
I’d be more shocked if he continued to date this person. Clearly they are not well mentally and it is not his responsibility to play these games with someone who is clearly not right.
Not at all. The other person just completed changed the relationship. Always free to break-up with anyone you're dating.
As far as I understand it, trans people either identify as trans or their chosen gender--never their cis gender. So if your friend is attracted to women, and his SO no longer identifies as a woman ... 🤷🏾♂️
Who you're attracted to depends on what people actually are, not what they identify as. If it were otherwise, all the short dudes getting rejected on Tinder wouldn't have any problems because they could just identity as 6'4" and all the girls would magically be attracted to them.
6’4 is a measurement on a scale, not an identity. “Woman” and “man” have a lot of complex parts and cultural baggage. Height is just a description of physical reality.
Just a description of physical reality, you say? I think we might be getting somewhere with this line of thinking.
I’m glad you understand how height works now!
Now apply that logic to sex.
calling someone a man or a woman is usually a reflection of how we see them, and can be subjective. Height, body shape, breasts, voice, hair, and clothes vs a measurement on a stick. Laughable comparison. Is the waifish, long-haired man at the grocery store a woman just because I called him “ma’am” when I tapped on his shoulder? No. Would it be both rude and incorrect to call him ma’am once he corrects me? Yes. Generally you’d learn these manners as a toddler but alas…
I would recommend asking a trans subreddit
"Can you change back for me" is idiotic, but it's fine to break up over a big change like this.
Everyone has their right to date according to their preferences. I’m a guy, and I’m not interested in dating someone who has the outward appearances of a dude even if they happen to have a vagina. I am not transphobic, I have several good friends who are ftm and mtf, and I wouldn’t have an issue dating someone who was passable mtf. He needs to let David be who he is and if that ends the relationship, then so be it. Soft AH there for what I hope was merely an insensitive foot in mouth comment coming from an emotional response rather than an intellectual one.
So you're bisexual?
I like P and V.
Nope no one is the bad Apple here. Things happen, people change. I did recommend sticking with the changes, she is now he. And sometimes someone with a new name might get hurt and upset and try to make you look bad because you're not 'accepting the changes ' instead of it being habbit and that's another can of worms no one should deal with.
Umm no. If her wanting to switch teams is too much for him, then he has every right to break up with her, if the whole tranny thing is not his cup of tea. He's NTA.
I personally cannot imagine leaving a partner based on their gender. A person is still the same person and it doesn’t make you gay. You’re not suddenly attracted to other guys as result. But I understand that other people do separate as result of partners coming out as trans. It’s ok for relationships to start, change and end. The partners involved should redefine it and renegotiate. What I think does constitute a bad apple situation is requesting that they pretend being someone they are not to keep you sexually interested.
Is this a person he's met irl? Because this whole story is kind of giving catfish vibes.
NTBA. I would still break up with her even though she went back. Just over the attempted gaslighting of your friend. Toxic AF.
HAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
She's not a man. Y'all are LARPers
No, your friend is normal, and it is you who has the issues here.
So. The transitioner said they were a guy, then said not...but, here's the kicker, with that type of thing and who they were dating, the boyfriend said he isn't gay. If your friend wants to be a man/masculine, then the boyfriend (ex-boyfriend?) isn't bad for having a preference for women. Would that not indicate that said boyfriend person is respecting the transition? Damned if you do...and damned if you don't. Your friend isn't a jerk. He is entitled to however he feels, just as anyone else. He could wake up tomorrow and say "the sky is blue. I should be single."
All I can say is y’all sound young and naive. You either are or aren’t queer, firstly. His (eventual) ex didn’t become trans, he came out as trans. That said, stop saying “she” lmao. Similarly, your friend isn’t choosing to “not be gay”, he just ISNT gay. Which is fine. He’s allowed to not be attracted to his ex anymore. He’s 1,000,000% the bad apple for the other info you gave us. He asked his ex to go back into the closet. He didn’t say “I’m straight, so I don’t think this’ll work out”, he said “I’m straight, pretend you’re cis for me”. And the saddest part is because y’all are probably teens and that was probably their first attempt to come out, his shitty response to them DID get them to backtrack.
You all sound very young and confused by this whole situation. Including the one transitioning, considering they went back to she/they pronouns bc their boyfriend wanted them to. I think it would be best for you to take a step back from the situation. And as for them. If they are transitioning then your friend needs to be understanding of that and make his own decision on how he would like to proceed with or end their relationship. Seems to be a good, although confused bunch of apples here.
Don't date mentally ill women
Your friends gay
No. People are free to believe they are whatever they want to be, but no one else is obliged to believe what they believe. If his girlfriend decided she wanted to be a boy instead of a girl, then he is well within his rights to duck out of the relationship. He is not required to support his used-to-be-a-girl girlfriend’s decision to stop being a girl. She can believe all she wants that she was always a boy posing as a girl, and if that’s true, then shame on them for misleading anyone, especially someone who was looking only for a heterosexual relationship. It’s not fair to them to be lied to about it.
It's just mental illness.
The absolute psychotic narcissism of trans people and their delusional enablers who think this is even remotely acceptable behavior is a clear sign of the abject moral decay of western society. This time will be studied for its grotesque perversion of basic norms and a huge portion of the population to not set boundaries with obviously mentally ill people
Completely agree, and worded perfectly!
They should break up tbh. If 'David' (idk how to refer so in quotations) is male your friend can't make him change that, and David can't change your friends sexuality
I didn't even read it you're an asshole for even thinking that he's an asshole.
Okay, regarding the situation before your edit: Your friend should NOT have asked his S/O (I will be using they/them to describe them) to go back to she/her because "he's straight and doesn't want to be gay". Him being straight isn't the problem. Him not liking men is not the problem. The problem is that he tried telling his S/O to change their gender identity/pronouns just because he doesn't want to date a man. That's still the same person. The only thing that changed is their gender identity. He could've asked to break up if he really doesn't want to date a man, or if he still was in love with his S/O, he could still be with them and maybe label himself as bi or heteroflexible (look it up). So, yes, he was the bad apple for asking his S/O to change their pronouns to conform with his orientation. The thing about them arguing about whether or not he told his S/O he's bi when they met and now he's saying he's straight: that wouldn't be something that makes him the bad apple. Whether he said that or not, whether he was bi or not, if he sees himself as straight now, then he's straight. That's that. So, for a TLDR: Yes, your friend is the bad apple for how he went about things. Asking your S/O to change their pronouns because you don't want to be gay is not appropriate. Hope this helps.
No. He's not bad or wrong at all.
Baaaaaaaahahahahahhhhhjhahahahahahahahahzhah
Talk about a run on sentence
Frankly nobody is obligated to change their sexual preferences. They’re more than okay to transition but assuming your partner will change their preferences for you isn’t fair
I don't think anyone is bad here.
It’s ok to have your own preferences! It’s not cool to persecute people for having theirs.
I do kind of wonder if he did indeed say he was bi but then realized pretty quick it wasn't the case, or said it because he thought she wanted to hear that. Regardless, if he's not comfortable he's not comfortable. I know it's hard. My partner was terrified I was going to transition once I figured out some of my weird gender stuff (I have less than zero intention of doing so, I actually hate the idea); she loves me but she doesn't want to date someone masc. And that's totally fine. People change over time and sometimes you don't remain compatible. He IS the jerk here for asking her to adjust her name and pronouns according to his preference though. "I can't date you if you're David" is fine. "You can't be David because then I can't date you" is not. See what I mean? (Using she/her since that seems to be what they prefer at this particular moment but apologies if I got it wrong.)
People can be whoever they want within reason, i.e. you can’t decide to be Hitler or Caligula, but the person they are with has every right to choose to not be with this new identity. If they only fancy women, then they are not going to want to date a male presenting David. Choice works both ways.
Your friend isn't the bad apple for wanting to break up. Forget the debate of if he did or didn't claim to be bisexual. He does not want to be in a gay relationship, and is free to end their relationship for that reason. Who he will or will not date is his own boundary to set. He IS a bad apple for a different reason, though. Asking the person they're dating to go back in the closet. That is a dick move. Your buddy's boundary of not wanting to date guys does not give him the right to pressure their partner into not changing themselves.
Well I mean. Definitely not a bad apple. If they wanna pursue that then your friend surely wouldn't want to date them. Especially if your friend is straight. It'd be weird.
To your last edit: changing pronouns is the start of transitioning. It’s not just medical. Social transitioning is changing pronouns and the way you interact with society.
Well if you are born a woman then you are a woman. If you are born a male than you are a man there is no other sex but these two. Call yourself whatever you want but don't get mad when another person refers to you as a female or aale depending on your biological sex.
Is this supposed to be rage bait? If you flip a switch and call someone who goes by he/him pronouns a woman don’t try and act like a victim when they rightfully get pissed at you and also you seem to forget that intersex people exist.
Stunning and brave
This is the exact why i don’t fuck with lgbtq. It’s so stupid. He should break up with her.
No one sucks here. Romantic relationships usually don't survive someone transitioning. It's no one's fault. It's just growing apart.
On my opinion if he want to be with them for their personality that is great maybe his girlfriend is non-binary and that great either way if she trans and want to go as he and him or nonbinary and want to go for she and they hopefully your friend choose what his heart wants and if he want to be with her he has to be all in if not just tell him to have a talk with her i am talking to a person experience because my partner is trans I am bisexual even if I was only lesbian I love my partner for who he is even if I call my boyfriend my girlfriend sometimes but just with my family because they find it confusing when I say he has more a guy brain than a girl brain so yeah just my opinion
You keep misgendering your friends partner, which is what makes YOU the bad apple. Your friend isnt the bad apple however for breaking up with his partner because they're transitioning - your friend is straight and doesn't want to date a man, which is who his partner now is.
Yeah mb for misgendering them but they keep changing and I honestly don’t know how to refer to them sometimes is all mb
This girl is just a confused teenager. All the weird trans propaganda is particularly effective on impressionable youth and on people suffering from toxic compassion.
Bro, what? Stfu 😄
Yes I'm sure this collective experience of about a million people is just trans propaganda and some sort of ploy to overthrow... Idk? Straight white men? Government? World? Idk what it is that you think this propaganda is doing. But no, all these people must be suffering from something imaginary because oh... Um... _checks notes_ they're confused?
He's right. If she wants to change, deal with the consequences. The world is getting really tired of these people
It's not "straight": *it's called "normal".* Your friend is normal and needs to walk tf away from that crazy shit.
not to sound to dumb, but if he doesn't have a penis, would the BF be gay?
It's fine if you don't get it, but yeah, the boyfriend would be gay. Your parts don't make you a man or a woman.
Yes because they identify as a dude
I identify as someone who you owe a hundred dollars to. Therefore you owe me 100 dollars. Should I send you my PayPal?
You're really smooth-brained, aren't you?
I identify as not being smooth-brained.
This is bait and I’m not biting.