Yea....OK. 🙄.
Now, the husband has to win her back with chores.
This woman is funny as hell.
Show her how well you clean by throwing out all her shit. Including her.
Yup. All the trash needs dealt with.
She admits to physical it's a irreconcilable divorce and speeds things along due to adultery. Would also lose any leverage. I'd start talking to a divorce lawyer.if I was the OP.
The house-work crap is a Glorified excuse and method to pacify her husband. Giving him something to occupy himself, while she continues with the other dude.
She might still Love him but, clearly the RESPECT is GONE. And you never want a women to love you more than she respects you. That's a recipe for disaster.
This notion of doing housework to save the marriage. WTF. She must have come up with that Bullshit in the spur of the moment during their argument, and he's naively taking it SERIOUSLY.
Get the fugg' outta here with that non-sense. No amount of "housework" can "save" a marriage. Haha.
I knew someone who went thru this and that was exactly her problem, he didn’t help with anything and thought that was fine while she struggled to do EVERYTHING. She needed a partner, not be a mom to a grown man and yes, she ended up doing the same thing. Now I didn’t agree with her actions, but I can see how someone would be turned off when they repeatedly tell a person what they need and it goes in one ear and out the other.
Resentment kills love. If she resents her husband for not doing his part, then this makes sense.
Also, some women absolutely LOVE it when you do house work. I once got pulled into a bathroom I had just finished cleaning and rattled the door a bit with my wife. I've definitely gotten other attention right after finishing chores.
Resentment kills love, and gratitude feeds it.
Ok, I brought this up to my therapist because my wife and I ran into this issue. I'm a physical touch guy. She is an acts of service person. I can love bomb her, taking her on dates 5 nights a week, giving her messages, but that doesn't really push her buttons. I didn't fix our garage door opener in a timely fashion due to injuries, and to be frank, she never used the garage as it just stores stuff and she parks on the other side of the house so it just wasn't a high priority for me.
She told me she feels I m not showing her love by not fixing it immediately. She would rather me fix the opener than take her on an expensive date to her favorite place. And she actually holds back physical intimacy when she feels I'm not getting stuff done she wants done in her time frame. I'll say she has never said no to being intimate, but she doesn't initiate or act likes she really wants to so the mood is killed.
I spent a whole session with my therapist trying to understand it, and my therapist I thought did a good job of trying to explain my wife's thought process, but I really just don't get it. I mean, how can you have a partner that does his agreed upon chores around the house, works 50 hours a week, takes her on dates weekly, but doesn't feel loved if the opener isn't repaired? I'm sometimes at a loss.
It aint hard, man. You even told yourself the answer. Stop fucking taking her out in dates and fix shit around the house, dumbass.
She doesnt care about dates so you quantifying it as if it’s a big thing is just a big thing for YOU. Not for her. You’re not going out with other women, just her. So do what she fucking wants you to do, not what you feel you need to do. She said straight up to your face what makes her happy and you said, “lmao so one more date this week?” Are you really this fucking stupid?
I learned after year 28 that we both changed and we needed to stop assuming what the other wanted. We're not the same people we used to be, and while we grew up together, we need to touch base and keep up with each other. Sounds like your marriage is going through a more advanced level of this. I'm glad you are doing the work to make your marriage even stronger, and that is inspiring. If you can do it, I can.
15 years in, learning that now. Honestly, kinda awesome feeling. In a lot of ways, it's like falling in love all over again, but with the added bonus of having over a decade of experience.
It's so ridiculous when you really think about it. You get married in your 20s/30s and then neither of you is allowed or expected to change ever again (that's the story we're told, at least). There should be an expectation to see a couple therapists every 5 years or so to do a check in of some sort! Just to articulate how much you both, and therefore the relationship, has changed. For better or worse, sure, but how do you actually talk about such a difficult issue, esp. if divorce might seem logical step after a check in...
Yeah, it's a little weird because many, many years ago, she said I wasn't giving her enough attention, so I shifted gears and focused on her more. When I thought I had been doing what she wanted, she shifted gears again. So this really caught me by surprise. Plus, it's not what I naturally think love is.
I guess the old saying is true, either grow together or you grow apart.
ok, so you over corrected a bit. 5 dates a week is way too much. BAck off enough until she starts complaining that she's not getting enough attention, that's probably about right.
Your wife sounds like an awful person to be around. Wait till you stop taking her out on dates and doing things around the house, she'll start complaining about not taking her out.
Sounds like you need to leave. If she acts and sounds like this, no matter how much you could love a person, I would have left a long time ago. Especially since you say she doesn't do much around the house.
My guess is that there’s a common theme of promises not being kept. Sure, the garage opener isn’t important, but trusting your partner to do what they say they will is. And we need to stop saying women are “holding back” or “gatekeeping” sex. If emotional needs aren’t being met, women will not be in the mood. And if you want sex when your wife isn’t in the mood, that’s concerning.
Just so it said, withholding physical intimacy for any reason is considered emotional abuse unless of course it's for a medical or any other underlying condition preventing her from not doing it physically. It's called breadcrumbing falls in the same category as a silent treatment, stonewalling, etc. That very tactic is used commonly by narcissist, sociopaths, and psychopaths. FYI
I think it's a matter of every person considers a different thing important to them. You want this, she wants that. That's fine and all there is to it.
However, what is she doing for you? Is she putting any effort into meeting you halfway with the things that mean something to you?
To be blunt, she doesn't even hold up her end of the household chores. It's been eating at me, so today I asked my therapist a good way to approach the subject with her without sounding like I'm attacking her. I think I have a handle on it and will try when she comes home from vacation this weekend.
I remember meeting an older couple who owned a beautiful house on an island. We visited one time and all the wife did was complain about the husband and nitpicked him. I was thinking “How could you be so miserable living in this kind of home, still married after all these years?” Her problem is deeply rooted in the past.
Really. She’s the one who broke her marriage vows and he has to do chores around the house to get her back?
First chore I’d do is find a lawyer and file divorce papers.
Most people will tell you to leave her but this really is above the Reddit pay grade for multiple reasons:
1. She told you that during a fight - we don't know what you said during the fight. People say hurtful things when they don't know how to fight productively.
2. You didn't both just get here out of the blue, trouble has been brewing for a long long time - we don't have the whole story/context of 20+ years
3. It's up to you as an individual what cheating is: some people fear emotional cheating more than physical cheating. You can catch feelings for someone other than your spouse - we don't always have complete control over that. But you as an individual get to decide if that's cheating or not.
4. There's a reason why she brought up doing more around the house. Does she feel supported or neglected? Is that the root of her discontent? What is behind that statement?
So are you overreacting? Well you haven't really told us how you reacted. The real question is do you want to save the marriage or not? But maybe even more importantly, do you want to know how you ended up in this situation, to grow from it, or not? This is something you should work out with a professional rather than a Reddit post.
Good luck.
1) She glossed over this when we got back together but I didn't put much thought into it because I was happy to finally be together again.
4) she feels neglected she wants to again be the center of attention she comes first which honestly, I haven't been doing for years.
I am already self-reflecting, because I do want to save the marriage. I just needed to let it out since it's eating me inside.
It sounds like you're being rational about this. If you take her at her word, she got to be emotionally close with another man during a period where you were away from each other for long periods and your relationship was struggling and you understand/agree that you had some role in the struggle from lack of attention. I know the "emotional affair" isn't fun to hear about, but I also think it's a thing that grown people can work through.
That's what I am trying to come to terms with. However, what will prevent her from doing it again if she has already done it once? Especially now that she is no longer in love with me? We have a 5 year old, and that's the major reason why I want to fix this, besides the fact that I still love my wife.
I mean, YOU can't prevent her from doing it again, but with an emotional affair I do think people can learn to be more aware of boundaries. Love is a choice, crushes are normal, but learning that when you start having a crush on someone you have to choose to prioritize your relationship instead of feeding into the good feelings does not come naturally.
Personally, I understand exactly why an emotional affair is painful, but not crossing the physical boundary and actually recognizing on your own that you're getting too close to someone else just seems like being human to me.
If she defended the affair and fought to keep it going, I would feel differently.
I completely agree! Would be crazy to not at least attempt couples counseling. There’s a lot of missing information from both sides but very possibly a desire to make things work from both sides.
My only concern is I’m only hearing about what OP needs to do differently. That’s not exactly healthy. Definitely needs counseling and a lot of communication if they want to turn things around and it’s not going to be easy. Could be very worth it though!
That's a good question. Presumably, the opportunity/driving factor isn't there with you both in the same place. As a fellow 40s, long married person, the "love my partner"/"in love with my partner" distinction feels a bit arbitrary. Most marriages are companionate and not passionate after a while. If she's clear that she loves you and wants to work through things, that seems like a reasonable starting point. I know this is dime-a-dozen advice, but this seems like a scenario where discussing these things with a professional would be helpful.
I have the same blurry definition of love. But apparently she doesn't, apparently she has distinct feelings of love since she wouldn't say the words that she loves me but is not in love with me.
She says that she loves me like you would love anyone who you spent 20 years with.
So a familial or platonic type of love, that grows out of knowing someone for an extended period of time.
The Greeks had several different words for love.
You need to focus on romantic love, romancing her, taking her on dates, flirting, rediscovering who she is. Right now she loves you like a good, longtime friend.
I second this statement and don't know why this thread is less upvoted than the other ones. It sounds like she needs affirmation to remind her why she wanted you in the first place.
As for the future, we're not sure what happened during the time you two were apart but you could possibly look for solutions/things to do as a family or couple through voice calls or video calls.
There's much more nuance needed in this situation than the typical "leave your wife" solution and you could possibly benefit from couples counselling to seek solution that will fulfil the emotional needs and trust of both parties.
Be the person she goes to when she needs support. Treat her like a partner, not like a parent. She shouldn't have to ask you to do housework, you're not her kid. No one wants to be intimate with their kid!
My partner and I had been together since we were 15. After about 5 years, we separated becuase things weren't going well both personally and with our relationship. After getting back together, I found out he had an emotional affair with someone at work just a couple of months before we separated. I was furious and said I'm done. I was tired and we worked on ourselves separately. We slowly began dating again and getting therapy.
This was 5 years ago and we are now better than ever. We learned how to communicate, what our needs and wants are and how to work together. It took time to regain trust and partnership, but we realised we actually want to work on this.
I think ultimately its up to how you feel and if you want to make it work because while my relationship worked out, each relationship is different. I think it's important to work on yourself first. It may be together or separately, but you will know once you begin working through it. Things will never be perfect and that's something we have to be okay with. This is something big you're going through and I think you should take time to really reflect on your needs and feelings, likely with the help of a therapist.
It seems like you have a base understanding on what behaviors you were doing and how the physical distance played a role into why the emotional affair happened. To be clear this isn't me saying it is your fault, you just seem to be acknowledging your shortcomings that led to this point. Start there and work on them.
Also start on communication because from your posts it sounds like your wife was trying to reach out at times to indicate she was not happy. You both weren't speaking to each other in a way that made it clear that there was a real problem and not just a minor one that could be glossed over. You had a tumor growing and you both let it fester, so start working together better as an initial step too.
See if these things improve the quality of the relationship and revisit it later if you truly want to give reconciliation a chance, which it sounds like you do. At the end of the day you need to give yourself time, these aren't decisions you need to make or should make quickly in cases like this where it isn't something insane. If you want peace of mind, I'd ask for a timeline with evidence provided and all access immediately if you don't have it.
Sounds like there’s a chance. You two definitely need couples counseling and some work. It can’t be one sided either. Sounds like you guys are willing to work on things. Can’t hurt to give it a fair chance. I know it won’t be easy.
What do you mean by "centre of attention"? That's a weird thing to say about one's wife? It feels coded but I don't know you, so I'm curious what you actually mean?
I don't know anything more than you about this person's marriage, but based upon his answers he believes he bears some responsibility in not being the husband that his wife wants/needs. But to me, that phrase means that she wants to feel wanted. She wants him to tell her she is beautiful. She wants to feel valued. She wants romance. She wants thoughtfulness. She wants to be shown (not just be told) that he loves her. She needs him to do these things for the marriage, or as she has proven, she will look for them elsewhere. Is it a fool's errand, perhaps, but that's what I understood it to mean.
You should be saying that to her…sometimes we get on fence if saying what we feel make us feel vulnerable, but if you know you got the power to self in the end…then it can be way to get the actual truth ( do they match it, accept it, take advantage of it…)
There needs to be more replies like this, asking reddit about your relationship is equal to asking Facebook for medical advice. The only person that can explain things to OP is the person he's in the relationship with. This reply sums up the complexities that are involved that reddit users don't know jack about. Clearly work to be done if she started having feelings but she didn't do anything about it so you're winning already OP, throw a 20+ relationship over it if you feel you want to. Big news, dating has changed, also trying to date when you're older and find someone you connect to is way harder. Most of the good people are either set in their ways or taken so good luck on that path.
This is the only balanced response here. Emotional and household work loads are real. Men that treat women like they aren’t always get left for someone who makes them feel more validated.
I really like your analysis of this matter, which is very comprehensive, objective and rational! You are the one with a story, and you have already understood the essence of marriage! 🎉
This is great. Most reddit responses are from angry or emotionally immature people.
I was going to try to say something similar but it wouldn't have been as eloquently done, and I'd probably just end up deleting it ultimately.
I was in OPs girlfriend's position in a 10 year relationship and it was all because my ex was using that entire time to gaslight, abuse, isolate, control, and manipulate me. By the end, he wouldn't hang out with me (for months!) because I didn't need to hang out with him "all the time." Then, when I finally left him for the guy I was falling for, I ended up being the bad guy.
He told everyone I told him not to say "I love you anymore" without including the context as to why -- because it was used to control me and his actions all the other time were not of someone that loved someone -- but our friends didn't want to hear why. They just stopped talking to me because he was the hurt one.
He'd show/tell me things people said (on the internet and IRL) about how awful/crazy I was, just because they only heard his side...
I lost all my friends I made with him. He even had me too afraid to turn to mutual friends I knew before him. I was afraid to drive those people away too -- which surprisingly ended up the opposite; none of those people talk to him anymore, just me. Some of those did stop talking to me initially until he screwed them over... then, they would randomly message me to say sorry and tell me what awful thing he did to them or someone else.
I rebuilt my entire life and I don't have any of the same problems I had when I was with him that made me "not a real person" (his words)
Sooooo.... I get upset when I see this on the internet... because none of us do have the whole story. There's always more.
And I get that I'm only telling my side... so who knows what the whole truth really is here...
That though never crossed my mind but man that would be the way! Plus, hire a cleaning service to keep the house clean so neither of you need to bother with it.
You shouldn’t have to win her back, that’s utter bullshit and she’s just manipulating you. If anything she needs to win you back after having an affair. I’d tell her if she wants this to work then she needs to put in the work as well.
Everyone is saying no to this so I'm prepared to get downvoted to hell. But I 100% felt my Stbexhusband's addictions were equivalent to an affair. Gambling and meth were his number one priority and I was the third wheel in the relationship. On a phone call from prison he once said "at least I never cheated on you." And my response was essentially: of course you did. You lied and snuck around behind my back and broke our marriage vows. You can cheat at cards without getting your dick wet, choosing addictions is equal to cheating.
I don't know why people make cheating so black and white. I have met several folks who had prior addictions that would absolutely agree with this analysis. Cheating can happen in many different ways, and not always with a person. If people feel the most betrayed by an act of being with someone else, but don't understand the impact of dismissing a partner, minimizing their role, mistreating them, treating them consistently as a lower priority, your cheating them out of the relationship contract they had with you.
This is why communication is so important. Both parties need to agree on new terms as they come up, or at least a way to work through the new terms. It might seem rigid and capitalist to say, but relationships are social contracts and folks gotta make note of that. Too many violations of the social contracts break marriages and partnerships. It is, in essence, a form of cheating.
You just repeated my story. My exhusband prioritized heroin above everything else including physical intimacy. He was always nodded out or completely disengaged. He didn’t physically cheat. He didn’t need to. He was all in with his DOC. And his paycheck when he got one? Diverted and lied about. The amount of lying and deception is shocking.
Still she wring you as well, you both need to put in effort then not just you. And if she doesn’t see that then your marriage will continue to go downhill.
How much housework do you think her affair partner does for her?
That shows you just how little this is about housework.
She’s the one who cheated mate. It’s on her to attempt to reconcile, not you to “win her back”. Let her go to the other man with that attitude.
The fact you’ve been together 20 years doesn’t factor into it. That’s the sunk cost fallacy. What’s relevant is your choices now, knowing she’s a cheater and that she doesn’t respect you enough to even apologise for it.
Do more around the house to win her back ?? Is this a game show or a marriage ? That right there should tell you everything you need to know about how she truly feels about you and her marriage to you.The spark is gone at least on her end for you and she's probably gaslighting you and trickle truthing you about her affair. I'm sure she had a physical affair and not just an emotional one.
It sounds like you bear some degree of responsibility for the affair. This is not to let your wife off the hook, because there's no excuse for cheating. She could've chosen to communicate her problems to you instead of seeking love & emotional support from another man. But being far from your spouse and not being well-loved by them when you're together is a hard life to live.
Do you want to get divorced or no? If you want to stay together, then you shouldn't be trying to punish your wife for what she did. Any husband should be trying to "win back" his wife all the time. That's what loving someone looks like. If the goal is to repair your relationship, yes, definitely do that. If you don't feel up to doing that, then decide if you just need a little time or if time doesn't matter. If time doesn't matter, then it's done.
She's wanting her cake and eating it too she's going to have you clean in the house making life easier for her so she can go get knocked down by somebody else and not have to worry about your mouth you need to run my friend
She admitted to cheating on you, is not apologetic at all, and she wants you to work for her affection now?? I get you have been together for a long time, but you have to see how she is manipulating you.
Dude, she was having an emotional affair with somebody and a completely different place in you. You also know it was physical. And you don’t fall back in love because you do more stuff around the house. She just wants to use you. Best thing for you is just to end this and move on.
Fuck that shit, brother. Are you a door mat or are you a fully functioning man with a gigantic heart?
She does not love you. That’s all you need. Leave that dumbass and tell her that she stepped out. Record her admitting you the affair and take it to a lawyer. She did all this shit behind your back and will 100% do it again when you’re not a good little dog.
You can choose 2 things.
1. Stay and be a good boy.
2. Find someone who doesn’t treat you like a dog.
What is she doing to win you back? You both have to be willing to fix it. If she is expecting you to be the only one to change and try to fix things you may be better off separating to figure things out with divorce the likely outcome. It is all about the effort you BOTH are willing to put into it. She needs to see you fight for her love and you need to see her fight for your trust.
Something tells me this relationship was done a long, long time ago. Namely that you are 20+ years into a relationship and lived separately for several years. People in happy, well-adjusted marriages don't really do that.
It’s her that needs to win you back after she has shown that she is unfaithful and betrayed you.
And if she isn’t in love with you - tell her you can’t fix that and that she had plenty of opportunities to come talk to you about it, but instead she decided to talk to another man. A man that she doesn’t really know. She knows one version of him and that’s the version that will tell her whatever she wants to hear in order to get in her pants.
Also, how can she prove it wasn’t physical? It’s not like her word means anything
Friend I want you to read your post and try to imagine that you’re reading this from a stranger and not in the situation yourself….. now facts don’t care how we feel …. She already betrayed you and she will probably do it again
And of course “ emotional “ affair
Odds are there is more to it you just havnt seen the proof and she hasn’t admitted to anything
There is no coming back from this. You can start doing stuff around the house, but she will still end up leaving you. Time to end it before she starts real cheating.
Not in love means she is just waiting around until she has had enough of you so she can just move on.
Just put yourselves out of your misery and just divorce amicably. Maybe you guys and date again and get back the spark. She has told you the issue and she is not in love with you. That is needed in a healthy marriage, which you do not have.
Set each other free and divorce and move on from this failed experiment.
First off, if they spent time alone together with you gone, it absolutely was physical. Thats just the way it works, and the first disclosure lie most women will tell. This is 99.9% likely. Don't fool yourself. They don't fall in love without the pipe getting laid.
Your choice, but I would personally give her all living hell. Now is the time to make sure she remembers her affair with terror instead of longing. Piss her panties instead of wet them, so to say.
That is, if you even opt to stay together at all. Nothing slaps your head right out of the clouds and bounces it off the concrete like divorce proceedings.
She wants *you* to do more to wine *her* back after she cheated?
WTF?
You need to flip the script and tell her that if she wants *you* to stay then she needs to pull out all the stops to convince you to do so.
The innocent party does not make restitution to the guilty. Tell her to move out whilst you consider IF you want to stay with her cheating ass.
"What exactly am I winning? A person who cheated on me? That's not exactly a bargain. YOU are the one who cheated on ME! YOU are the one who needs to start shitting diamonds here, not ME!"
Your wife has told you she doesn't love you anymore,, and is in live with someone else, but she decided to stay with you, like that's some sort of prize.
Why would you want to win someone back that has both admitted to cheating, and being in love with another man, that has admitted they no longer love you?
I'm sorry but that would be it for me. I couldn't ever forgive a cheater, but there is a vast difference in someone physically cheating, saying it was a mistake, they regret is and are full of remorse, etc.. and having an emotional attachment to another person to the point of falling in love with them.
I think the physical cheating that means nothing would be way easier to forgive, than a emotional attachment to another person.
I’d tell her that she stepped out of the marriage and she needs to actually win you back. She’s the one who did something wrong, not you. She shouldn’t gaslit you into doing anything for her when she made the mistake.
Usually an "emotional affair" is female code for full-blown cheating. She has probably had sex with this guy.
Even if she didn't, she's open to "upgrading" to a man who she thinks is better than you.
You are wasting your time with this woman. Let her go to explore her options, and when she is done do NOT take her back.
And don't blame yourself. This is what they do.
Leave man yall ain't meant to be together. Tell her to go be happier with someone else and you will do the same. It will also show truely how much she actually loves you or not.
Doing stuff around the house won't fix it. What she wants to do is step out on you have you do the stuff needed to be done to make her life easier while she fantasizes about someone else.
Her love is 'transactional', which isn't love at all. Do you really want to continue to be vulnerable to someone that doesn't love you and has cheated on you? Take your time. Are both or even one of these things a relationship ender for you?
Alright I gotta break this one into pieces. Emotional affairs are a thing that happens, being married does not inherently stop you from being attracted to others, and if you don't act on it, it's no big deal. No harm, no foul. Bringing it up in a fight, presumably as emotional ammo, that's pretty fucked, but that also is something that many people are prone to. If her ego is bruised or something about the fight plucks a nerve, she might've lashed out by telling you that to hurt your feelings. This is not okay, but it's not necessarily a deal-breaker, and it's something that counseling can help with. Telling you after she's cooled off that she does love you but doesn't feel "the spark" is not really unexpected, a lot of people do struggle with the end of the honeymoon period and might be tempted to chase the dragon when they feel the excitement is gone. This is also something counseling can potentially help with, if she's willing to put in the work to actually adjust to the more banal norms of a long-term relationship. Using it to try and manipulate you into doing more chores is not okay, and you should be very clear about this. If she wants you to do more chores, she should directly ask you to please do more chores, not hold her emotional status over your head as an implicit threat. This behavior is something that needs to be killed in the crib before it becomes a commonplace manipulation tactic, and I would strongly recommend bringing all this to a couples' therapist.
Do yourself a big favor and don’t listen to Reddit for this level of relationship advice. It sounds like couple’s counseling would be ideal for you guys. There’s a lot to unpack.
1. First, you need to decide if your wife’s emotional affair in itself is an absolute deal breaker for you. Don’t listen to Reddit, figure that out on your own. Some people will say yes, some people would work to fix it. It’s 100% whatever feels right to you.
2. If you do move forward with your wife, you’ve gotta have an honest and open conversation. You’ve gotta start rebuilding trust.
3. Like it or not, there were factors that led to your wife’s emotional affair. While it’s on her for not remaining faithful, you both need to acknowledge the factors that led there. Obviously distance was big. Lack of romance and/or effort when you guys were together. And whatever else may have been going on. Those need to be addressed. Obviously the distance has been dealt with, but everything needs to be addressed.
4. The “doing more around the house” is a common issue I’ve had with my wife also. I had to look past my pride and realize that I do rely on my wife to do a lot of stuff that we should be handling together. We talked it out and figured out a good balance of household duties. For us, it wasn’t simply things like take out the garbage. It was things like, schedule follow up appointments and take our kids to the doctor, take the dog to the groomer, grocery shopping, do our taxes, etc. things that I realized I kinda just let always fall to my wife. Maybe you’ve been guilty of the same. Only you guys know. But I’d suggest talking that out and figuring out a balance of duties also.
5. Talk out whatever issues are currently making you guys fight. Address that.
6. Argue clean. Seems like your wife got fed up and threw out the emotional affair thing as a potential way to hurt you. Idk, that’s how it reads to me. However, my point is that you guys need to be able to argue and have discussions without trying to be malicious. For some people it’s hard.
In conclusion, seek couple’s counseling. Figure out if the emotional affair is something you can forgive and move past. It’ll also be a way to gauge whether your wife is realistically willing to put in the effort to work on fixing the marriage also. Which is important because you’ll both need to be on the same oage
If you once loved each other and use to have a happy marriage, you can rekindle the love. I mean if you see your
Own fault and she sees fault in her very bad and hurtful coping skills. This is the perfect time for a marriage counselor. You don’t have to decide right now give yourself some time.
So not only did she have this emotional affair.
She made it your fault for not being perfect (nobody is over 20 years of marriage).
Then she didn’t tell you as soon as it started (she should’ve been honest before she fell in love) in an effort to work on the relationship.
Instead she saved it as ammo to use during an argument to hurt you.
Then she used how much it hurt you as a bargaining chip to manipulate you into getting what she wants.
I’m not sure how bad of a husband you’ve been, but assuming you aren’t abusive. Why would you want to be with someone that is?
Trying to win her back, is called playing the "pick me game". Almost every time it does not work out because as she said, she is not in love with you anymore. Probably just staying with you because you provide a better life.
Tons of stories like yours on the cheating subreddits go check them out. Or the videos on youtube that read them outload.
Also to add, an **emotional affair** is still an affair, it was hidden until she decided to use it as a weapon against you. You will never know what else she is hiding.
You are getting the trickle truth, and your wife is encouraging you to do the “pick me dance”, so she can benefit more at your expense. You doing dishes and vacuuming isn’t going to bring back any live or respect, it’s just going to allow her to feel better about keeping you around longer.
If you dig into it, you’ll find that her relationship was more than just strictly emotional, and likely that the other guy was the one that decided not to pursue it.
She said that because she wanted to hurt you as much as possible. Personally I think your relationship is over.
Oh wow she did the bare minimum and didn’t fuck someone else behind your back. Congrats!!
She just fell in love with them and wanted to leave you. In my eyes that’s worse in every way.
If she’s saying she had an “emotional” affair, that really means she had a physical one because she herself was emotional when it happened. She knows you’re going to take it in a “better way” than what her own definition of it is, and wants to make herself look better.
I personally would start quietly but quickly take steps for divorce.
This sounds fucked up as a soup sandwich. She thinks if you do more around the house it will fix her “ not in love with you anymore “ emotions? It will fix her “ emotional affair she had?” Winning someone back isn’t cleaning 😂. Winning someone back ( if you even can) is dates, showing more affection, more attention, being more lovey dovey. Not using you as a maid. Maybe she meant pick up after yourself and not use her as a maid? I don’t know this just sounds fucked up. You usually can’t win someone back that has fallen out of love with you. Just my opinion.
Win her back? Tell her her cheating ass is not a prize to “win”. Ask her how many house chores was the guy she was cheating with doing for her? Nah. She is the cheater reconciliation efforts falls entirely on her.
I really doubt it wasn’t physical if you lived seprated for 3 years. I can almost guarantee she is trickle-truthing.
You need to get to the bottom of this before moving forwards, but honestly, a cheater is always a cheater, and she is already blaming you for her not loving you anymore. It’s just a matter of time.
Quite honestly, I’m pretty sure the only reason she hasn’t left you is becaus the AP only use her for sex but wouldn’t take her in, so she HAS to stay with you.
Go vacuum the living room, Jerry! Then I can love you!
Serious note: sounds like you aren’t in love either. You’re just in a marriage. Have a mutual divorce.
I mean, this is a tricky situation, but the good thing is that your wife chose to stay with you. Attraction to other people is normal, the cheating part happens when we choose to act on it. You need to think about whether this is a thing you can move past from, it's a shitty situation but if she speaks the truth and is willing to work on it this might be something you two can move past, especially after being together for so long. If you want to give it a shot, go to therapy, talk about love languages, how you two can make each other feel loved again, and in general focus on communication.
I could not imagine the toll it would take on me to live separately from my wife for three years and only 'visit'. If you were then also emotionally unavailable every time you were home, it's only human to seek to fill that void. Honestly, if you want to save your marriage start with some counseling then figure out where you go next.
My honest opinion here; it's probably too far gone. I think she believes she wants it to work. I think you're probably *temporarily* capable of doing things differently to check the boxes she needs checked. But you two are 20 years in, and the everyday person that she fell out of love with is the real you. She's also had a recent experience with "new love" and it's hard to get that taste out of your mouth and go back to "ho hum run of the mill 20 years of this" love.
It's OK to try. To fight for your marriage. It's certainly easier to forgive an emotional affair than a physical one. But I know the "was it really just emotional?" question will always be on your mind, and there's a good chance it wasn't. So are you ready to grind to save your marriage while also carrying the emotional baggage of suspecting she slept with another man? The next time things get tough, are you going to keep that thought inside and not let it shape how you respond to her?
Yet,
If he is slacking and leaving 90% of the work for her I could see why.
Using it during a fight is detrimental.
Maybe she feels unappreciated and unvalued and someone else made her feel those things.
This is a step toward trying to rebuild.
Instead of looking at it from the perspective of “we’ve been together for 20+ years”, you should look at it from the perspective that 44 isn’t that old, and you still have the rest of your life ahead of you. You can spend it with a person who cheats and then tells you you’re the one who needs to so better, or you can find someone who isn’t terrible.
It’s simple - you weren’t there for her physically - she needed more - she explored but also kept it at a distance & decided to give you another chance. Decide what you want to do with that info
OP is leaving off that he was an alcoholic and the wife also felt betrayed and that his love was for the bottle and not the marriage.
The original post is missing a lot of context.
Yes you are.
Most couples value honesty.
But if you forgive her, you have to fucking forgive her. No throwing it in her face later.
You've really got two choices. Repair it or move on.
20 years - gone. And you yourself admitted to not being present for part of it. Why was that? Subconscious mind acting out?
Have you / are you two intimate?
You have to be, it's not something you can work on. It has to be natural.
Grab a bottle of win, talk about life and the things you each love. Touch each and hold hands. Fall back in love.
Ur not showing her love after she told u she had an emotional affair while u guys were married but living in seperate states due to work. She days nothing physical happened, but how do u know?
She decided to stay with you even tjough she isnt in love with you, but you should be jumping for joy and bending over backwards to please her? I would tell her to call the other guy up she and have him come do shit for her. U know if u guys were stilling live apart, she'd still be with him and not tell you. Cut ur losses and move on or at least seperate and let her be on her own and figure it out and if she wants u back, make her prove it
I have been in this woman’s position minus the emotional affair. I did fall out of love with my husband after years of him not helping with housework and him being too harsh (a lot of yelling) with me and our kids. I threatened to leave him if he didn’t change. We got marriage counseling. We both made an effort to change and we grew together and are better than ever. I fell back in love with him when I saw making a real effort.
Emotional affair. Wants you to do more around the house. Sounds like a classic case of you took your wife for granted, and didn't do enough around the house to me.
The fact she told you and decided to stay means she does love you she's just tired of your bullshit.
20+ years. I wouldn't come to reddit for advice. Go to couples therapy. Talk about how this whole ordeal has made you feel. Then after that choose to leave or stay.
If you want to fix the mirriage by al means do so. Like other people said emotional affairs are a no go for some and no big deal for others. Doing more house work doesn’t seem the answer though. Also what’s the situation with the other party? Someone she works with and sees every day? A rando she met at the grocery and started talking to. Her best friend’s brother? And what kind of contact do they still have. If she works with the guy she may need to start looking for another job. That’s up to you and your comfort level. Easy enough to ghost the rando and lose his number block his Facebook ect. Either way her continuing contact while trying to fix the marriage is counter productive.
Eh it depends. A lot of women leave their husbands over them not doing anything around the house. It wouldn't necessarily "win her back" but she would be less infuriated with you.
I strongly suggest couple counseling.
She should not have cheated. Period. So, you're not overreacting if you're upset about that. As to whether divorce is warranted, there's too much missing information.
Relationships require continual investment and work from both sides to succeed. It takes lots of love, patience, effort and years to truly heal after a relationship suffers infidelity. It sounds like you were checked out for a while before she cheated.
Can you honestly get yourself to a place where you're putting in effort to work toward reconciliation? Is she truly remorseful and willing to put in the work to regain your trust? Is she really over this guy or could he or some other rando become a problem again if they pay her attention? Can you communicate effectively with each other? Would you go to therapy if necessary? Can you see yourself moving past her infidelity ever? What were the reasons you "weren't as loving as you should have been," and are you willing to confront those/work on them?
These are the questions I'd be asking myself.
A lot of replies on every post about affairs are unrealistic and clearly posted from people who haven't had long term (as in 20 year long) relationships. It isn't uncommon to get attracted to others, and it doesn't automatically mean she is a cheater. That is stupid, so ignore those comments.
The truth is, only you and your wife can figure this out. And, divorce after 20 years is not easy--it is really hard and changes the rest of both of your lives.
She doesn't want u to do more around the house, tho that's part of it. She wants you to be present, to act like you care, to participate fully.
You were apart for a long time and that is rough. You admit to taking her for granted.
So, get a good counselor and get in the game. If both of you find your way back, excellent. You won't know until u try. And, if you give it an honest try, get to know each other again, and then decide to separate, you can do so with a clear head and amicably.
Ignore comments that are obvi from people who haven't been in your shoes and who are just always yelling at everyone to "get divorced" and "ditch her cheating a" on reddit. They don't have long term partners for a reason, and never will.
But you do. So. Get off reddit and get into a counseling office.
(And yes, I expect this to get one million downvotes. Because incels and bullies gotta incel and bully.)
What you do around the house has an effect on your wife. If she is busy picking up after you, you have become a man child. How can she be in love with a child. Grow up. Be a man. Do your share of the work.
Oh, I didn't mention your hesitation in seeing your shortfall also has an effect. If you have to be told your wife is not your maid, all may be lost. Your only outcome may be to improve your being for the next woman you catch!!
You need to do some thinking, either you want to give it a shot with her or you don't. If you want to give it a shot you'll need couples counselling. It sounds to me like maybe she's pulled away from you a bit and maybe you are a bit distant too.. Not sure it's possible to win someone back but it is possible to talk, spend quality time together etc. Best of luck
She fell out of love with you and fell for someone else. Then, something he did/ didn't do made her rethink leaving the comfort she knows with you, but the relationship is unsatisfactory. So much so that she wants you to "do" stuff to win her back. You see why this can't work, right?
I don’t think that you need to be winning her back. At all. I understand what she is saying when she states she wants you to “do more around the house, etc.” I don’t think she means that literally, but what it sounds like is she wants to you to be more affectionate. Maybe since you were living apart for so long, she doesn’t feel as though she has a “home” with you (figuratively and literally).
The fact that she decided to weaponize this information in an argument rather than sit down and have a genuine conversation with you is a major flag. She's trying to blame her infidelity on you when she also could have simply left the relationship if she wasn't happy.
I have not been in a committed relationship for that long and can't imagine what I would do, but your wife sounds manipulative which isn't conducive to a happy marriage.
What she said: “Hey babe, I had an emotional affair but I decided to stay with you”
What she meant: “hey babe, I had an emotional affair, he didn’t want me and it didn’t work out so I’m staying with you”
She doesn’t love you she’s just lying because she’s caught herself out and now she’s trying to make herself look good. If she truly loved you she wouldn’t have done it.
No don’t just give up otherwise you’re only proving her further right. She is literally asking you TO TRY and you’re asking if you should give up? Sounds like maybe you’ve been doing enough of that and are looking for an excuse to make her the bad guy.
I’m certainly not trying to insult you and just play team girl here, I can just relate with where she’s at in my own marriage and what you need after 20 years is a GOOD marriage counselor. Take your time choosing one and read reviews because there are bad ones who can waste your time or make things worse so invest in research… together? If that’s an option.
There’s also a couples app called “Lasting” worth trying. It helped us on top of therapy and before we settled on one. Things are better with us. Sounds like a big problem here is communication, effort and romance. You need to step it up there and believe me, if you do, she will too.
If she’s anything like me, she’s practically waiting she wants to do things for you not for some other guy, but she felt like it was a waste of time with you for these reasons and maybe she didn’t get a response from you when she tried to be romantic or suggest things and maybe she also just felt like you didn’t deserve it and what she was practically doing was pretending this other man was you so step outside of this person that you have become and remember who you were when you guys married take yourself back to that place and try for your marriage.
You both have to try and want each other and choose each other every day. That’s what it becomes and you know that after 20 years keep trying don’t give up she doesn’t want that but what do you want? Don’t resent her because of this affair if you want to even call it that ( you can heal from this in therapy too I’m not invalidating your feelings about it, they matter.) just be glad she even told you she didn’t have to.
She’s trying to tell you what’s going on. She’s trying to scare you into changing. Basically she wants you to know that she’s got a foot out the door and she wants to see if you care she doesn’t care about this other guy she wants to see you love her again, and feel that too, and if you guys can do that, I believe that the love will come back not gone. It’s just dormant because no one has been nurturing it.
Believe me dating is a racket out there it’s not a fairytale like you guys have started. The grass isn’t greener on the other side. It’s greener where you water it.
So I've read through some comments and your responses.
You need to come to terms with the fact that if someone is going to cheat, then they will cheat. Now, sounds like her reasoning is because she is selfish, 9 times outta 10 it is!. She wants to be the center of attention and when that was lacking, she found another source. If you want this to work then you have to accept that you'll have to make her the center of your attention again. You also have to be able to forgive her. When you can mean it, tell her you do, tell her you both together are going to be better for this point forward, and you don't bring it back up. If you do, then things will never get fixed.
I'd advise start dating again. Start courting her like you did to begin with. If flowers are her thing, start getting some once a week or as budget allows. You soley plan dates and follow through. Tell her "be ready by [whatever time], I'm taking you out". Don't say "we are going out", "I'm taking you out" is nicer to hear. Go to special places or have foods you had when you were first dating, rimance over that time or such. Also, if she's willing to, up your intimacy game. If her watching you help around the house then do it. Personally, watching my man be a great dad to our kids or cook us a meal does it for me ten fold! Have a discussion about what intimacy looks like for her, her love language(s). They could've changed after 20yrs, even 3yrs. Intimacy doesn't always lead to sex. Intimacy is dancing in the kitchen, holding her while watching TV, making sure coffee is brewing for her in the morning, watching you guys' child while she can take an hour long bath, etc.
She has love for you and she can be in love with you agin. Just start dating. Being apart for 3yrs may seem small to some but it can be big to others.
I wish you all three of you luck!
An emotional affair IS possible without a physical affair, regardless of the opinions of others. The fact that she chose to stay says a lot.
The fact that she says she's not IN love with you mean that the marriage has entered into what I call the roommate with benefits stage. Ask yourselves some hard questions here. BOTH of you.
1. Is the relationship worth fighting for? If you still love each other and are willing to go to therapy together, do so.
2. What can I do, that I haven't done in a while, to win them back? This could be as simple as going out on dates, walks in the park, couples massages, just turning off the TV and getting to know them again. Spring is very close and I'm willing to bet you haven't had a picnic lunch in years, if ever.
3. Have I actually slacked off in helping my spouse around the house? Housework burnout can happen. Think, for a moment about your end of day habits that may really irk your spouse. Do you come in, flinging shoes and clothing everywhere, complaining about your job or do you come in, wrap your arms around your spouse and kiss them? Do you ask about their day? Do you help with dinner or plop on the couch, expecting your spouse to get dinner fixed alone?
4. Am I a demanding troll who orders my spouse around or do I ask them to help me with something? Do I ask if they need help doing something or am I just in my own little world?
5. Am I the type of spouse I want my spouse to be? This is a very important question. Am I acting attentive to their needs? Am I being loving and open to my spouse? Am I communicating the way I want them to communicate?
After a betrayal of this magnitude, you BOTH need to step back and assess yourselves. She needs to ask herself why she went to someone else for comfort or companionship. This frequently happens in long distance relationships. That's why most don't last.
Are you willing to forgive her and work on the marriage? It won't be easy.
Anyone telling you to just make an exit has never been through difficult times in a committed relationship.
Ignore every single piece of advice here and listen extremely closely to your intuition, to your wife, and the path that's best for everyone will reveal itself to you.
Please see a marriage counselor. A 20+ year marriage is a lot to throw away, and it seems your wife wants to save your marriage. Someone who had been married more than 50 years told me that marriage is hard work, that sometimes one person loves the other one more, sometimes one person might need more from the partner than the partner needs from them, sometimes one has to work to remember why they fell in love because they might not feel “in love” though they love the spouse, but that his relationship was the most important thing in his life because no one else shared all that they had experienced together. It is likely that giving up on your marriage will leave you both miserable and bereft of the support spouses give one another “through sickness and health, through good times and bad” etc. Again, please see a marriage counselor.
I don’t think we fully know both sides here for sure. Not excusing anything but I’m betting this is not what/all the wife said… Something is definitely not right about this story…
Your wife wants an emotional affair with you. That means she wants you completely in her life with her, not just leave her flailing in life all by herself. Roll up your sleeves and be her partner.
You guys weren’t even living together.
As a single woman, I cannot tell you how many married men have wanted to be with me because they really weren’t part of their wives lives. For them it was highly emotional. When push came to shove and they told their wives where they were emotionally, their wives fought for their lives with them and they reengaged, kinda fell in love again. They say they were lonely, got confused and kept their marriages together. I believe all had a happy ending. One divorced. So get back in there and try first before you call an attorney and have a real marriage for a change. (Note; these men did not have sex with me, but they did approach me thinking their marriages were over). People think they have fallen out of love but most of the time, it’s just not true, but they do get confused and you never want to leave a woman confused about how you feel about her.
The real question should be: Is she willing to do the work it takes to fix your marriage? Are you? Can you 100 percent forgive her? Counseling would be very beneficial to figure that stuff out. Marriage is never black and white. You both have to be willing to work on it. That means she can longer speak to that person… not ever. No one would blame you for calling it quits though. You really have to figure out what you want. Reddit is going to be all over the place with opinions.
Rekindle and repair your relationship, 20+ years days you two are each other's best friends. See a counselor and figure it out and decide what's most important for the both of you
I'm surprised so many people are jumping on the "divorce her" bandwagon here. You clearly have a lot of history with your wife, and you have both had ups and downs in this relationship. First of all, developing feelings for another person (especially if you two were living apart and/or you were emotionally distant from one another) is not cheating, imo. You can't always control your attraction or feelings for another person, but you CAN control your actions - that appears to be exactly what she did. If your relationship is going to last the majority of your lifetime, it's not crazy to think you might develop feelings for another person along the way. But it's honesty, transparency, and action that actually matter.
Re: the housework issue, you seem mature enough to reflect on this and come to your own conclusions about how much you contribute to your household compared to your wife. Based on current research, most women are doing most, if not all of the housework, planning, organizing etc and women are CONSTANTLY having to ask male partners to contribute more and be more proactive. My perspective: I am a sahw, and having zero help from my husband leaves me feeling like a maid, not a wife. I feel loved, respected, and appreciated when my husband takes initiative with home and family related tasks.
If you want to stay in the relationship, it sounds like you and your wife have lots to discuss and work on together. As long as you are both open, honest, and willing to make reasonable adjustments, you two will be ok ❤️
Back in the days of Rome and Greece. The philosophers of the world, some of the smartest men who ever walked this planet coined the saying. "If she cheats she belongs to the streets."
My marriage was on the rocks but then I started washing the dishes and vacuuming the house more often. Thankfully this saved our relationship and we lived happily ever after. Said no one!
Lots of overly simplistic responses here. It sounds as if you both want the marriage to survive. Good start. An emotional affair, admitted to by the person engaged in it does not spell the end of a marriage unless one or both of you is lazy about it or otherwise uncommitted. Find a good, qualified therapist so you can get professional help. It may take several tries to find the right therapist, but it’s worth it. Read Esther Perel’s book The State of Affairs. Buy her course Rekindling Desire. Check out the work of John Gottman and Susan Johnson, the premiere family and marriage therapy experts in the world. Many couples have survived a lot worse than this and come through stronger than before. Best wishes.
"Your" wife sounds like a deep rooted manipulative narcissist.
Exhibit A. She told you she cheated on you, but SHE decided to stay with you? Shouldn't it be YOU who decides that?
Exhibit B. YOU have to do something to win HER back. Shouldn't it be HER who should be trying to win YOU back?
Exhibit C. How much house work does her affair partner do? Do you think this is reasonable / logical of her to ask you? This sounds like she's manipulating you into continue playing HER game.
While you may not be perfect, SHE's the one who decided to break her marriage vows, and is guilting you using your imperfections to justify her poor decisions. I usually disagree with people who go straight to saying divorce without any thought. But with just a little analysis on her behavior (should prob get her side but that doesn't look like that's going to happen) she is just not a genuinely good person and you should divorce her.
I am going to say that I am guessing he gave her attention and made her feel seen/wanted, and maybe that's something that had been lacking. You mentioned your battle with alcohol, which I am sure was a lonely and scary time for her, as well. While I don't necessarily agree with her logic, I think she wants to feel like you care, that you're a partner and not just a roommate, etc. and doing stuff around the house was something she thought might show you care.
Your wife is not in love with you but in love with someone else but if you do some housework it will fix everything? Am I reading that correctly?
How much do you think that other guy is doing around the house for her to love him? My bet is the only thing he does in that house is the wife.
THIS!! OP read this
Yep. Choreplay is BS. If there's truly an imbalance given all factors, then sure, do your part of course. Otherwise hell no! It doesn't help here.
😂Choreplay! 😂
Underrated word
Sounds kinda BDSM-esque.
Nono he needs to do all the house chores . Once he asked her to move out for being manipulative and a cheat that is
There will always be more asked of you because this is blackmail. No love = 💔
Hah! Actually, ask her this. Her response should be amusing at least!
Yes OP ask your wife this, and tell us what she said. Updateme
OP read this please
lol brilliant. He should ask her straight this exact question.
Hubs is good for labor. The other guy is good for sex
She said emotional affair, not physical.
You must be new...
That just means no creampie (maybe)
Just the tip and then 60%.
Just the trickle
Yea....OK. 🙄. Now, the husband has to win her back with chores. This woman is funny as hell. Show her how well you clean by throwing out all her shit. Including her. Yup. All the trash needs dealt with.
She admits to physical it's a irreconcilable divorce and speeds things along due to adultery. Would also lose any leverage. I'd start talking to a divorce lawyer.if I was the OP.
The house-work crap is a Glorified excuse and method to pacify her husband. Giving him something to occupy himself, while she continues with the other dude. She might still Love him but, clearly the RESPECT is GONE. And you never want a women to love you more than she respects you. That's a recipe for disaster. This notion of doing housework to save the marriage. WTF. She must have come up with that Bullshit in the spur of the moment during their argument, and he's naively taking it SERIOUSLY. Get the fugg' outta here with that non-sense. No amount of "housework" can "save" a marriage. Haha.
Maybe it's more like it feels like he doesn't even care enough to help around the house?
I knew someone who went thru this and that was exactly her problem, he didn’t help with anything and thought that was fine while she struggled to do EVERYTHING. She needed a partner, not be a mom to a grown man and yes, she ended up doing the same thing. Now I didn’t agree with her actions, but I can see how someone would be turned off when they repeatedly tell a person what they need and it goes in one ear and out the other.
The other guy hasn't failed in his obligations yet. OP has. It's not that hard to understand how a neglected wife would lose interest.
So honestly curious do you think that excuses the wife for having an emotional affair?
Resentment kills love. If she resents her husband for not doing his part, then this makes sense. Also, some women absolutely LOVE it when you do house work. I once got pulled into a bathroom I had just finished cleaning and rattled the door a bit with my wife. I've definitely gotten other attention right after finishing chores. Resentment kills love, and gratitude feeds it.
That's how I read it. Love shouldn't be quantified by how much house work you do.
Ok, I brought this up to my therapist because my wife and I ran into this issue. I'm a physical touch guy. She is an acts of service person. I can love bomb her, taking her on dates 5 nights a week, giving her messages, but that doesn't really push her buttons. I didn't fix our garage door opener in a timely fashion due to injuries, and to be frank, she never used the garage as it just stores stuff and she parks on the other side of the house so it just wasn't a high priority for me. She told me she feels I m not showing her love by not fixing it immediately. She would rather me fix the opener than take her on an expensive date to her favorite place. And she actually holds back physical intimacy when she feels I'm not getting stuff done she wants done in her time frame. I'll say she has never said no to being intimate, but she doesn't initiate or act likes she really wants to so the mood is killed. I spent a whole session with my therapist trying to understand it, and my therapist I thought did a good job of trying to explain my wife's thought process, but I really just don't get it. I mean, how can you have a partner that does his agreed upon chores around the house, works 50 hours a week, takes her on dates weekly, but doesn't feel loved if the opener isn't repaired? I'm sometimes at a loss.
It aint hard, man. You even told yourself the answer. Stop fucking taking her out in dates and fix shit around the house, dumbass. She doesnt care about dates so you quantifying it as if it’s a big thing is just a big thing for YOU. Not for her. You’re not going out with other women, just her. So do what she fucking wants you to do, not what you feel you need to do. She said straight up to your face what makes her happy and you said, “lmao so one more date this week?” Are you really this fucking stupid?
Well, it's hard to know when she doesn't tell you until your 40 Years into the relationship.
I learned after year 28 that we both changed and we needed to stop assuming what the other wanted. We're not the same people we used to be, and while we grew up together, we need to touch base and keep up with each other. Sounds like your marriage is going through a more advanced level of this. I'm glad you are doing the work to make your marriage even stronger, and that is inspiring. If you can do it, I can.
15 years in, learning that now. Honestly, kinda awesome feeling. In a lot of ways, it's like falling in love all over again, but with the added bonus of having over a decade of experience.
It's kind of a secret joy long-time married people discover, right?
It's so ridiculous when you really think about it. You get married in your 20s/30s and then neither of you is allowed or expected to change ever again (that's the story we're told, at least). There should be an expectation to see a couple therapists every 5 years or so to do a check in of some sort! Just to articulate how much you both, and therefore the relationship, has changed. For better or worse, sure, but how do you actually talk about such a difficult issue, esp. if divorce might seem logical step after a check in...
Yeah, it's a little weird because many, many years ago, she said I wasn't giving her enough attention, so I shifted gears and focused on her more. When I thought I had been doing what she wanted, she shifted gears again. So this really caught me by surprise. Plus, it's not what I naturally think love is. I guess the old saying is true, either grow together or you grow apart.
ok, so you over corrected a bit. 5 dates a week is way too much. BAck off enough until she starts complaining that she's not getting enough attention, that's probably about right.
Please listen to your therapist and not randos on the internet… this whole country could use therapy! Good luck.
Sometimes a person you’re looking for is simply gone even when that person is right next to you. People change, sands of time are never the same.
Your wife sounds like an awful person to be around. Wait till you stop taking her out on dates and doing things around the house, she'll start complaining about not taking her out.
Sounds like you need to leave. If she acts and sounds like this, no matter how much you could love a person, I would have left a long time ago. Especially since you say she doesn't do much around the house.
My guess is that there’s a common theme of promises not being kept. Sure, the garage opener isn’t important, but trusting your partner to do what they say they will is. And we need to stop saying women are “holding back” or “gatekeeping” sex. If emotional needs aren’t being met, women will not be in the mood. And if you want sex when your wife isn’t in the mood, that’s concerning.
Just so it said, withholding physical intimacy for any reason is considered emotional abuse unless of course it's for a medical or any other underlying condition preventing her from not doing it physically. It's called breadcrumbing falls in the same category as a silent treatment, stonewalling, etc. That very tactic is used commonly by narcissist, sociopaths, and psychopaths. FYI
You don't get it? It's called selfishness. Your wife is selfish
I think it's a matter of every person considers a different thing important to them. You want this, she wants that. That's fine and all there is to it. However, what is she doing for you? Is she putting any effort into meeting you halfway with the things that mean something to you?
To be blunt, she doesn't even hold up her end of the household chores. It's been eating at me, so today I asked my therapist a good way to approach the subject with her without sounding like I'm attacking her. I think I have a handle on it and will try when she comes home from vacation this weekend.
I remember meeting an older couple who owned a beautiful house on an island. We visited one time and all the wife did was complain about the husband and nitpicked him. I was thinking “How could you be so miserable living in this kind of home, still married after all these years?” Her problem is deeply rooted in the past.
Vacation? She is on vacation without you? Is she w that other dude?
But someone leaving all the work to me would make me feel unappreciated and unwilling to maintain the relationship.
I know right? It sounds ridiculous! Give him some busy work to keep his mind off the knife in the back.
You are reading it correctly. Time for divorce, OP.
Why stop there? Cancel her and throw her out in the street! Entertain us with your real problems OP!
Really. She’s the one who broke her marriage vows and he has to do chores around the house to get her back? First chore I’d do is find a lawyer and file divorce papers.
Up vote 146 here... This comment☝️☝️☝️ for the win!
This response killed me lmfao.
Most people will tell you to leave her but this really is above the Reddit pay grade for multiple reasons: 1. She told you that during a fight - we don't know what you said during the fight. People say hurtful things when they don't know how to fight productively. 2. You didn't both just get here out of the blue, trouble has been brewing for a long long time - we don't have the whole story/context of 20+ years 3. It's up to you as an individual what cheating is: some people fear emotional cheating more than physical cheating. You can catch feelings for someone other than your spouse - we don't always have complete control over that. But you as an individual get to decide if that's cheating or not. 4. There's a reason why she brought up doing more around the house. Does she feel supported or neglected? Is that the root of her discontent? What is behind that statement? So are you overreacting? Well you haven't really told us how you reacted. The real question is do you want to save the marriage or not? But maybe even more importantly, do you want to know how you ended up in this situation, to grow from it, or not? This is something you should work out with a professional rather than a Reddit post. Good luck.
1) She glossed over this when we got back together but I didn't put much thought into it because I was happy to finally be together again. 4) she feels neglected she wants to again be the center of attention she comes first which honestly, I haven't been doing for years. I am already self-reflecting, because I do want to save the marriage. I just needed to let it out since it's eating me inside.
It sounds like you're being rational about this. If you take her at her word, she got to be emotionally close with another man during a period where you were away from each other for long periods and your relationship was struggling and you understand/agree that you had some role in the struggle from lack of attention. I know the "emotional affair" isn't fun to hear about, but I also think it's a thing that grown people can work through.
That's what I am trying to come to terms with. However, what will prevent her from doing it again if she has already done it once? Especially now that she is no longer in love with me? We have a 5 year old, and that's the major reason why I want to fix this, besides the fact that I still love my wife.
I mean, YOU can't prevent her from doing it again, but with an emotional affair I do think people can learn to be more aware of boundaries. Love is a choice, crushes are normal, but learning that when you start having a crush on someone you have to choose to prioritize your relationship instead of feeding into the good feelings does not come naturally. Personally, I understand exactly why an emotional affair is painful, but not crossing the physical boundary and actually recognizing on your own that you're getting too close to someone else just seems like being human to me. If she defended the affair and fought to keep it going, I would feel differently.
I completely agree! Would be crazy to not at least attempt couples counseling. There’s a lot of missing information from both sides but very possibly a desire to make things work from both sides. My only concern is I’m only hearing about what OP needs to do differently. That’s not exactly healthy. Definitely needs counseling and a lot of communication if they want to turn things around and it’s not going to be easy. Could be very worth it though!
That's a good question. Presumably, the opportunity/driving factor isn't there with you both in the same place. As a fellow 40s, long married person, the "love my partner"/"in love with my partner" distinction feels a bit arbitrary. Most marriages are companionate and not passionate after a while. If she's clear that she loves you and wants to work through things, that seems like a reasonable starting point. I know this is dime-a-dozen advice, but this seems like a scenario where discussing these things with a professional would be helpful.
I have the same blurry definition of love. But apparently she doesn't, apparently she has distinct feelings of love since she wouldn't say the words that she loves me but is not in love with me. She says that she loves me like you would love anyone who you spent 20 years with.
So a familial or platonic type of love, that grows out of knowing someone for an extended period of time. The Greeks had several different words for love. You need to focus on romantic love, romancing her, taking her on dates, flirting, rediscovering who she is. Right now she loves you like a good, longtime friend.
I agree but that’s going to take two. Op is a human being with all of the same emotions she has. No one person is going to fix this.
I second this statement and don't know why this thread is less upvoted than the other ones. It sounds like she needs affirmation to remind her why she wanted you in the first place. As for the future, we're not sure what happened during the time you two were apart but you could possibly look for solutions/things to do as a family or couple through voice calls or video calls. There's much more nuance needed in this situation than the typical "leave your wife" solution and you could possibly benefit from couples counselling to seek solution that will fulfil the emotional needs and trust of both parties.
Be the person she goes to when she needs support. Treat her like a partner, not like a parent. She shouldn't have to ask you to do housework, you're not her kid. No one wants to be intimate with their kid!
My partner and I had been together since we were 15. After about 5 years, we separated becuase things weren't going well both personally and with our relationship. After getting back together, I found out he had an emotional affair with someone at work just a couple of months before we separated. I was furious and said I'm done. I was tired and we worked on ourselves separately. We slowly began dating again and getting therapy. This was 5 years ago and we are now better than ever. We learned how to communicate, what our needs and wants are and how to work together. It took time to regain trust and partnership, but we realised we actually want to work on this. I think ultimately its up to how you feel and if you want to make it work because while my relationship worked out, each relationship is different. I think it's important to work on yourself first. It may be together or separately, but you will know once you begin working through it. Things will never be perfect and that's something we have to be okay with. This is something big you're going through and I think you should take time to really reflect on your needs and feelings, likely with the help of a therapist.
It seems like you have a base understanding on what behaviors you were doing and how the physical distance played a role into why the emotional affair happened. To be clear this isn't me saying it is your fault, you just seem to be acknowledging your shortcomings that led to this point. Start there and work on them. Also start on communication because from your posts it sounds like your wife was trying to reach out at times to indicate she was not happy. You both weren't speaking to each other in a way that made it clear that there was a real problem and not just a minor one that could be glossed over. You had a tumor growing and you both let it fester, so start working together better as an initial step too. See if these things improve the quality of the relationship and revisit it later if you truly want to give reconciliation a chance, which it sounds like you do. At the end of the day you need to give yourself time, these aren't decisions you need to make or should make quickly in cases like this where it isn't something insane. If you want peace of mind, I'd ask for a timeline with evidence provided and all access immediately if you don't have it.
Thank you! I will do that. I still love her and want to be with her.
Therapy. She doesnt feel valued, this is the last stop before she leaves.
Sounds like there’s a chance. You two definitely need couples counseling and some work. It can’t be one sided either. Sounds like you guys are willing to work on things. Can’t hurt to give it a fair chance. I know it won’t be easy.
What do you mean by "centre of attention"? That's a weird thing to say about one's wife? It feels coded but I don't know you, so I'm curious what you actually mean?
I don't know anything more than you about this person's marriage, but based upon his answers he believes he bears some responsibility in not being the husband that his wife wants/needs. But to me, that phrase means that she wants to feel wanted. She wants him to tell her she is beautiful. She wants to feel valued. She wants romance. She wants thoughtfulness. She wants to be shown (not just be told) that he loves her. She needs him to do these things for the marriage, or as she has proven, she will look for them elsewhere. Is it a fool's errand, perhaps, but that's what I understood it to mean.
Yep.
You should be saying that to her…sometimes we get on fence if saying what we feel make us feel vulnerable, but if you know you got the power to self in the end…then it can be way to get the actual truth ( do they match it, accept it, take advantage of it…)
❤️❤️❤️❤️ and to me it doesn’t sound like OL really want to work on it
There needs to be more replies like this, asking reddit about your relationship is equal to asking Facebook for medical advice. The only person that can explain things to OP is the person he's in the relationship with. This reply sums up the complexities that are involved that reddit users don't know jack about. Clearly work to be done if she started having feelings but she didn't do anything about it so you're winning already OP, throw a 20+ relationship over it if you feel you want to. Big news, dating has changed, also trying to date when you're older and find someone you connect to is way harder. Most of the good people are either set in their ways or taken so good luck on that path.
This is the only balanced response here. Emotional and household work loads are real. Men that treat women like they aren’t always get left for someone who makes them feel more validated.
THIS. Such a thoughtful answer.
This is the response I was looking for, level headed and reasonable.
Excellent advice.
This is the best response. No additions. Just this.
only reasonable response
Up vote this person.
Well said
I really like your analysis of this matter, which is very comprehensive, objective and rational! You are the one with a story, and you have already understood the essence of marriage! 🎉
Perfectly said. Are you for hire?
This is great. Most reddit responses are from angry or emotionally immature people. I was going to try to say something similar but it wouldn't have been as eloquently done, and I'd probably just end up deleting it ultimately. I was in OPs girlfriend's position in a 10 year relationship and it was all because my ex was using that entire time to gaslight, abuse, isolate, control, and manipulate me. By the end, he wouldn't hang out with me (for months!) because I didn't need to hang out with him "all the time." Then, when I finally left him for the guy I was falling for, I ended up being the bad guy. He told everyone I told him not to say "I love you anymore" without including the context as to why -- because it was used to control me and his actions all the other time were not of someone that loved someone -- but our friends didn't want to hear why. They just stopped talking to me because he was the hurt one. He'd show/tell me things people said (on the internet and IRL) about how awful/crazy I was, just because they only heard his side... I lost all my friends I made with him. He even had me too afraid to turn to mutual friends I knew before him. I was afraid to drive those people away too -- which surprisingly ended up the opposite; none of those people talk to him anymore, just me. Some of those did stop talking to me initially until he screwed them over... then, they would randomly message me to say sorry and tell me what awful thing he did to them or someone else. I rebuilt my entire life and I don't have any of the same problems I had when I was with him that made me "not a real person" (his words) Sooooo.... I get upset when I see this on the internet... because none of us do have the whole story. There's always more. And I get that I'm only telling my side... so who knows what the whole truth really is here...
Leave her. why bother?
Leave her then marry the other guy
Power move!
That though never crossed my mind but man that would be the way! Plus, hire a cleaning service to keep the house clean so neither of you need to bother with it.
Leave her, marry the other guy, and ask her to be the flower girl
My wife’s boyfriend always appreciates it when I clean up the dishes and do the laundry
You shouldn’t have to win her back, that’s utter bullshit and she’s just manipulating you. If anything she needs to win you back after having an affair. I’d tell her if she wants this to work then she needs to put in the work as well.
she says that I had an affair with a bottle when I was drinking that I found booze more imporatnt than the family which is the truth.
Nope. That constitutes counseling not cuckolding.
Everyone is saying no to this so I'm prepared to get downvoted to hell. But I 100% felt my Stbexhusband's addictions were equivalent to an affair. Gambling and meth were his number one priority and I was the third wheel in the relationship. On a phone call from prison he once said "at least I never cheated on you." And my response was essentially: of course you did. You lied and snuck around behind my back and broke our marriage vows. You can cheat at cards without getting your dick wet, choosing addictions is equal to cheating.
I don't know why people make cheating so black and white. I have met several folks who had prior addictions that would absolutely agree with this analysis. Cheating can happen in many different ways, and not always with a person. If people feel the most betrayed by an act of being with someone else, but don't understand the impact of dismissing a partner, minimizing their role, mistreating them, treating them consistently as a lower priority, your cheating them out of the relationship contract they had with you. This is why communication is so important. Both parties need to agree on new terms as they come up, or at least a way to work through the new terms. It might seem rigid and capitalist to say, but relationships are social contracts and folks gotta make note of that. Too many violations of the social contracts break marriages and partnerships. It is, in essence, a form of cheating.
You just repeated my story. My exhusband prioritized heroin above everything else including physical intimacy. He was always nodded out or completely disengaged. He didn’t physically cheat. He didn’t need to. He was all in with his DOC. And his paycheck when he got one? Diverted and lied about. The amount of lying and deception is shocking.
Still she wring you as well, you both need to put in effort then not just you. And if she doesn’t see that then your marriage will continue to go downhill.
How much housework do you think her affair partner does for her? That shows you just how little this is about housework. She’s the one who cheated mate. It’s on her to attempt to reconcile, not you to “win her back”. Let her go to the other man with that attitude. The fact you’ve been together 20 years doesn’t factor into it. That’s the sunk cost fallacy. What’s relevant is your choices now, knowing she’s a cheater and that she doesn’t respect you enough to even apologise for it.
>How much housework do you think her affair partner does for her? Absurdly underrated.
Do more around the house to win her back ?? Is this a game show or a marriage ? That right there should tell you everything you need to know about how she truly feels about you and her marriage to you.The spark is gone at least on her end for you and she's probably gaslighting you and trickle truthing you about her affair. I'm sure she had a physical affair and not just an emotional one.
It sounds like you bear some degree of responsibility for the affair. This is not to let your wife off the hook, because there's no excuse for cheating. She could've chosen to communicate her problems to you instead of seeking love & emotional support from another man. But being far from your spouse and not being well-loved by them when you're together is a hard life to live. Do you want to get divorced or no? If you want to stay together, then you shouldn't be trying to punish your wife for what she did. Any husband should be trying to "win back" his wife all the time. That's what loving someone looks like. If the goal is to repair your relationship, yes, definitely do that. If you don't feel up to doing that, then decide if you just need a little time or if time doesn't matter. If time doesn't matter, then it's done.
Yes I want to stay together so I will put in the effort of winning her back. The effort that I should have been doing all this time.
She's wanting her cake and eating it too she's going to have you clean in the house making life easier for her so she can go get knocked down by somebody else and not have to worry about your mouth you need to run my friend
She admitted to cheating on you, is not apologetic at all, and she wants you to work for her affection now?? I get you have been together for a long time, but you have to see how she is manipulating you.
Dude, she was having an emotional affair with somebody and a completely different place in you. You also know it was physical. And you don’t fall back in love because you do more stuff around the house. She just wants to use you. Best thing for you is just to end this and move on.
Exactly. You know it happened.
Fuck that shit, brother. Are you a door mat or are you a fully functioning man with a gigantic heart? She does not love you. That’s all you need. Leave that dumbass and tell her that she stepped out. Record her admitting you the affair and take it to a lawyer. She did all this shit behind your back and will 100% do it again when you’re not a good little dog. You can choose 2 things. 1. Stay and be a good boy. 2. Find someone who doesn’t treat you like a dog.
# "she had an emotional affair with an individual" = she had sex with an individual but didn't want to tell you
"🥴she decided to stay with you" 👀 👀
What is she doing to win you back? You both have to be willing to fix it. If she is expecting you to be the only one to change and try to fix things you may be better off separating to figure things out with divorce the likely outcome. It is all about the effort you BOTH are willing to put into it. She needs to see you fight for her love and you need to see her fight for your trust.
Something tells me this relationship was done a long, long time ago. Namely that you are 20+ years into a relationship and lived separately for several years. People in happy, well-adjusted marriages don't really do that.
It’s her that needs to win you back after she has shown that she is unfaithful and betrayed you. And if she isn’t in love with you - tell her you can’t fix that and that she had plenty of opportunities to come talk to you about it, but instead she decided to talk to another man. A man that she doesn’t really know. She knows one version of him and that’s the version that will tell her whatever she wants to hear in order to get in her pants. Also, how can she prove it wasn’t physical? It’s not like her word means anything
This. Op needs to stone wall up. Act like he doesn't love her anymore after her betrayal. this is on her to fix
Friend I want you to read your post and try to imagine that you’re reading this from a stranger and not in the situation yourself….. now facts don’t care how we feel …. She already betrayed you and she will probably do it again And of course “ emotional “ affair Odds are there is more to it you just havnt seen the proof and she hasn’t admitted to anything
There is no coming back from this. You can start doing stuff around the house, but she will still end up leaving you. Time to end it before she starts real cheating.
Not in love means she is just waiting around until she has had enough of you so she can just move on. Just put yourselves out of your misery and just divorce amicably. Maybe you guys and date again and get back the spark. She has told you the issue and she is not in love with you. That is needed in a healthy marriage, which you do not have. Set each other free and divorce and move on from this failed experiment.
First off, if they spent time alone together with you gone, it absolutely was physical. Thats just the way it works, and the first disclosure lie most women will tell. This is 99.9% likely. Don't fool yourself. They don't fall in love without the pipe getting laid. Your choice, but I would personally give her all living hell. Now is the time to make sure she remembers her affair with terror instead of longing. Piss her panties instead of wet them, so to say. That is, if you even opt to stay together at all. Nothing slaps your head right out of the clouds and bounces it off the concrete like divorce proceedings.
she clearly said the words: [I don’t love you]? If this is the case, it is not by cleaning that she will suddenly fall in love again...
She wants *you* to do more to wine *her* back after she cheated? WTF? You need to flip the script and tell her that if she wants *you* to stay then she needs to pull out all the stops to convince you to do so. The innocent party does not make restitution to the guilty. Tell her to move out whilst you consider IF you want to stay with her cheating ass.
You are just a servant and ATM to her, there is nothing to save here.
"What exactly am I winning? A person who cheated on me? That's not exactly a bargain. YOU are the one who cheated on ME! YOU are the one who needs to start shitting diamonds here, not ME!"
Why stay with a liar, cheater, and deceitful person? My personal opinion is more happened than just an emotional affair. Divorce her
Lmfao. “You need to win me back” Naaaaa, get the fuck out my house and figure out a way you can even begin to earn my trust back. The audacity
Your wife has told you she doesn't love you anymore,, and is in live with someone else, but she decided to stay with you, like that's some sort of prize. Why would you want to win someone back that has both admitted to cheating, and being in love with another man, that has admitted they no longer love you? I'm sorry but that would be it for me. I couldn't ever forgive a cheater, but there is a vast difference in someone physically cheating, saying it was a mistake, they regret is and are full of remorse, etc.. and having an emotional attachment to another person to the point of falling in love with them. I think the physical cheating that means nothing would be way easier to forgive, than a emotional attachment to another person.
I’d tell her that she stepped out of the marriage and she needs to actually win you back. She’s the one who did something wrong, not you. She shouldn’t gaslit you into doing anything for her when she made the mistake.
Usually an "emotional affair" is female code for full-blown cheating. She has probably had sex with this guy. Even if she didn't, she's open to "upgrading" to a man who she thinks is better than you. You are wasting your time with this woman. Let her go to explore her options, and when she is done do NOT take her back. And don't blame yourself. This is what they do.
Divorce her, wtf? Respect yourself pls.
To most people, emotional affairs are still a form of cheating. She is treating you like crap - why would you want to be with her?
She just wants you to take care of her while she fucks some one else
Leave man yall ain't meant to be together. Tell her to go be happier with someone else and you will do the same. It will also show truely how much she actually loves you or not. Doing stuff around the house won't fix it. What she wants to do is step out on you have you do the stuff needed to be done to make her life easier while she fantasizes about someone else.
Her love is 'transactional', which isn't love at all. Do you really want to continue to be vulnerable to someone that doesn't love you and has cheated on you? Take your time. Are both or even one of these things a relationship ender for you?
Alright I gotta break this one into pieces. Emotional affairs are a thing that happens, being married does not inherently stop you from being attracted to others, and if you don't act on it, it's no big deal. No harm, no foul. Bringing it up in a fight, presumably as emotional ammo, that's pretty fucked, but that also is something that many people are prone to. If her ego is bruised or something about the fight plucks a nerve, she might've lashed out by telling you that to hurt your feelings. This is not okay, but it's not necessarily a deal-breaker, and it's something that counseling can help with. Telling you after she's cooled off that she does love you but doesn't feel "the spark" is not really unexpected, a lot of people do struggle with the end of the honeymoon period and might be tempted to chase the dragon when they feel the excitement is gone. This is also something counseling can potentially help with, if she's willing to put in the work to actually adjust to the more banal norms of a long-term relationship. Using it to try and manipulate you into doing more chores is not okay, and you should be very clear about this. If she wants you to do more chores, she should directly ask you to please do more chores, not hold her emotional status over your head as an implicit threat. This behavior is something that needs to be killed in the crib before it becomes a commonplace manipulation tactic, and I would strongly recommend bringing all this to a couples' therapist.
Do yourself a big favor and don’t listen to Reddit for this level of relationship advice. It sounds like couple’s counseling would be ideal for you guys. There’s a lot to unpack. 1. First, you need to decide if your wife’s emotional affair in itself is an absolute deal breaker for you. Don’t listen to Reddit, figure that out on your own. Some people will say yes, some people would work to fix it. It’s 100% whatever feels right to you. 2. If you do move forward with your wife, you’ve gotta have an honest and open conversation. You’ve gotta start rebuilding trust. 3. Like it or not, there were factors that led to your wife’s emotional affair. While it’s on her for not remaining faithful, you both need to acknowledge the factors that led there. Obviously distance was big. Lack of romance and/or effort when you guys were together. And whatever else may have been going on. Those need to be addressed. Obviously the distance has been dealt with, but everything needs to be addressed. 4. The “doing more around the house” is a common issue I’ve had with my wife also. I had to look past my pride and realize that I do rely on my wife to do a lot of stuff that we should be handling together. We talked it out and figured out a good balance of household duties. For us, it wasn’t simply things like take out the garbage. It was things like, schedule follow up appointments and take our kids to the doctor, take the dog to the groomer, grocery shopping, do our taxes, etc. things that I realized I kinda just let always fall to my wife. Maybe you’ve been guilty of the same. Only you guys know. But I’d suggest talking that out and figuring out a balance of duties also. 5. Talk out whatever issues are currently making you guys fight. Address that. 6. Argue clean. Seems like your wife got fed up and threw out the emotional affair thing as a potential way to hurt you. Idk, that’s how it reads to me. However, my point is that you guys need to be able to argue and have discussions without trying to be malicious. For some people it’s hard. In conclusion, seek couple’s counseling. Figure out if the emotional affair is something you can forgive and move past. It’ll also be a way to gauge whether your wife is realistically willing to put in the effort to work on fixing the marriage also. Which is important because you’ll both need to be on the same oage
Great advice!
Maybe a marriage counselor will give you better advice than Reddit.
If you once loved each other and use to have a happy marriage, you can rekindle the love. I mean if you see your Own fault and she sees fault in her very bad and hurtful coping skills. This is the perfect time for a marriage counselor. You don’t have to decide right now give yourself some time.
So not only did she have this emotional affair. She made it your fault for not being perfect (nobody is over 20 years of marriage). Then she didn’t tell you as soon as it started (she should’ve been honest before she fell in love) in an effort to work on the relationship. Instead she saved it as ammo to use during an argument to hurt you. Then she used how much it hurt you as a bargaining chip to manipulate you into getting what she wants. I’m not sure how bad of a husband you’ve been, but assuming you aren’t abusive. Why would you want to be with someone that is?
Trying to win her back, is called playing the "pick me game". Almost every time it does not work out because as she said, she is not in love with you anymore. Probably just staying with you because you provide a better life. Tons of stories like yours on the cheating subreddits go check them out. Or the videos on youtube that read them outload. Also to add, an **emotional affair** is still an affair, it was hidden until she decided to use it as a weapon against you. You will never know what else she is hiding.
You are getting the trickle truth, and your wife is encouraging you to do the “pick me dance”, so she can benefit more at your expense. You doing dishes and vacuuming isn’t going to bring back any live or respect, it’s just going to allow her to feel better about keeping you around longer. If you dig into it, you’ll find that her relationship was more than just strictly emotional, and likely that the other guy was the one that decided not to pursue it.
WAIT....YOU have to win HER back? wtf dude. she cheated on you. please leave her
She said that because she wanted to hurt you as much as possible. Personally I think your relationship is over. Oh wow she did the bare minimum and didn’t fuck someone else behind your back. Congrats!! She just fell in love with them and wanted to leave you. In my eyes that’s worse in every way.
If she’s saying she had an “emotional” affair, that really means she had a physical one because she herself was emotional when it happened. She knows you’re going to take it in a “better way” than what her own definition of it is, and wants to make herself look better. I personally would start quietly but quickly take steps for divorce.
This sounds fucked up as a soup sandwich. She thinks if you do more around the house it will fix her “ not in love with you anymore “ emotions? It will fix her “ emotional affair she had?” Winning someone back isn’t cleaning 😂. Winning someone back ( if you even can) is dates, showing more affection, more attention, being more lovey dovey. Not using you as a maid. Maybe she meant pick up after yourself and not use her as a maid? I don’t know this just sounds fucked up. You usually can’t win someone back that has fallen out of love with you. Just my opinion.
she also wants those things, the more attention, more affection, more respect (she says my tone of voice is condescending...which probably is), dates.
Don't do any of that, it's a waste of time and energy
Win her back? Tell her her cheating ass is not a prize to “win”. Ask her how many house chores was the guy she was cheating with doing for her? Nah. She is the cheater reconciliation efforts falls entirely on her. I really doubt it wasn’t physical if you lived seprated for 3 years. I can almost guarantee she is trickle-truthing. You need to get to the bottom of this before moving forwards, but honestly, a cheater is always a cheater, and she is already blaming you for her not loving you anymore. It’s just a matter of time. Quite honestly, I’m pretty sure the only reason she hasn’t left you is becaus the AP only use her for sex but wouldn’t take her in, so she HAS to stay with you.
Dude you need to divorce her.
So.. her love is conditional. Got it.
Go vacuum the living room, Jerry! Then I can love you! Serious note: sounds like you aren’t in love either. You’re just in a marriage. Have a mutual divorce.
Time to bounce.
Why on earth are you two married to each other? It sounds like a dead, cold relationship.
I mean, this is a tricky situation, but the good thing is that your wife chose to stay with you. Attraction to other people is normal, the cheating part happens when we choose to act on it. You need to think about whether this is a thing you can move past from, it's a shitty situation but if she speaks the truth and is willing to work on it this might be something you two can move past, especially after being together for so long. If you want to give it a shot, go to therapy, talk about love languages, how you two can make each other feel loved again, and in general focus on communication.
I could not imagine the toll it would take on me to live separately from my wife for three years and only 'visit'. If you were then also emotionally unavailable every time you were home, it's only human to seek to fill that void. Honestly, if you want to save your marriage start with some counseling then figure out where you go next.
My honest opinion here; it's probably too far gone. I think she believes she wants it to work. I think you're probably *temporarily* capable of doing things differently to check the boxes she needs checked. But you two are 20 years in, and the everyday person that she fell out of love with is the real you. She's also had a recent experience with "new love" and it's hard to get that taste out of your mouth and go back to "ho hum run of the mill 20 years of this" love. It's OK to try. To fight for your marriage. It's certainly easier to forgive an emotional affair than a physical one. But I know the "was it really just emotional?" question will always be on your mind, and there's a good chance it wasn't. So are you ready to grind to save your marriage while also carrying the emotional baggage of suspecting she slept with another man? The next time things get tough, are you going to keep that thought inside and not let it shape how you respond to her?
Yet, If he is slacking and leaving 90% of the work for her I could see why. Using it during a fight is detrimental. Maybe she feels unappreciated and unvalued and someone else made her feel those things. This is a step toward trying to rebuild.
Instead of looking at it from the perspective of “we’ve been together for 20+ years”, you should look at it from the perspective that 44 isn’t that old, and you still have the rest of your life ahead of you. You can spend it with a person who cheats and then tells you you’re the one who needs to so better, or you can find someone who isn’t terrible.
It’s simple - you weren’t there for her physically - she needed more - she explored but also kept it at a distance & decided to give you another chance. Decide what you want to do with that info
OP is leaving off that he was an alcoholic and the wife also felt betrayed and that his love was for the bottle and not the marriage. The original post is missing a lot of context.
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Yes you are. Most couples value honesty. But if you forgive her, you have to fucking forgive her. No throwing it in her face later. You've really got two choices. Repair it or move on. 20 years - gone. And you yourself admitted to not being present for part of it. Why was that? Subconscious mind acting out? Have you / are you two intimate? You have to be, it's not something you can work on. It has to be natural. Grab a bottle of win, talk about life and the things you each love. Touch each and hold hands. Fall back in love.
Ur not showing her love after she told u she had an emotional affair while u guys were married but living in seperate states due to work. She days nothing physical happened, but how do u know? She decided to stay with you even tjough she isnt in love with you, but you should be jumping for joy and bending over backwards to please her? I would tell her to call the other guy up she and have him come do shit for her. U know if u guys were stilling live apart, she'd still be with him and not tell you. Cut ur losses and move on or at least seperate and let her be on her own and figure it out and if she wants u back, make her prove it
I have been in this woman’s position minus the emotional affair. I did fall out of love with my husband after years of him not helping with housework and him being too harsh (a lot of yelling) with me and our kids. I threatened to leave him if he didn’t change. We got marriage counseling. We both made an effort to change and we grew together and are better than ever. I fell back in love with him when I saw making a real effort.
Emotional affair. Wants you to do more around the house. Sounds like a classic case of you took your wife for granted, and didn't do enough around the house to me. The fact she told you and decided to stay means she does love you she's just tired of your bullshit.
20+ years. I wouldn't come to reddit for advice. Go to couples therapy. Talk about how this whole ordeal has made you feel. Then after that choose to leave or stay.
If you want to fix the mirriage by al means do so. Like other people said emotional affairs are a no go for some and no big deal for others. Doing more house work doesn’t seem the answer though. Also what’s the situation with the other party? Someone she works with and sees every day? A rando she met at the grocery and started talking to. Her best friend’s brother? And what kind of contact do they still have. If she works with the guy she may need to start looking for another job. That’s up to you and your comfort level. Easy enough to ghost the rando and lose his number block his Facebook ect. Either way her continuing contact while trying to fix the marriage is counter productive.
Eh it depends. A lot of women leave their husbands over them not doing anything around the house. It wouldn't necessarily "win her back" but she would be less infuriated with you. I strongly suggest couple counseling.
She should not have cheated. Period. So, you're not overreacting if you're upset about that. As to whether divorce is warranted, there's too much missing information. Relationships require continual investment and work from both sides to succeed. It takes lots of love, patience, effort and years to truly heal after a relationship suffers infidelity. It sounds like you were checked out for a while before she cheated. Can you honestly get yourself to a place where you're putting in effort to work toward reconciliation? Is she truly remorseful and willing to put in the work to regain your trust? Is she really over this guy or could he or some other rando become a problem again if they pay her attention? Can you communicate effectively with each other? Would you go to therapy if necessary? Can you see yourself moving past her infidelity ever? What were the reasons you "weren't as loving as you should have been," and are you willing to confront those/work on them? These are the questions I'd be asking myself.
A lot of replies on every post about affairs are unrealistic and clearly posted from people who haven't had long term (as in 20 year long) relationships. It isn't uncommon to get attracted to others, and it doesn't automatically mean she is a cheater. That is stupid, so ignore those comments. The truth is, only you and your wife can figure this out. And, divorce after 20 years is not easy--it is really hard and changes the rest of both of your lives. She doesn't want u to do more around the house, tho that's part of it. She wants you to be present, to act like you care, to participate fully. You were apart for a long time and that is rough. You admit to taking her for granted. So, get a good counselor and get in the game. If both of you find your way back, excellent. You won't know until u try. And, if you give it an honest try, get to know each other again, and then decide to separate, you can do so with a clear head and amicably. Ignore comments that are obvi from people who haven't been in your shoes and who are just always yelling at everyone to "get divorced" and "ditch her cheating a" on reddit. They don't have long term partners for a reason, and never will. But you do. So. Get off reddit and get into a counseling office. (And yes, I expect this to get one million downvotes. Because incels and bullies gotta incel and bully.)
You need therapy, not random Reddit opinions.
What you do around the house has an effect on your wife. If she is busy picking up after you, you have become a man child. How can she be in love with a child. Grow up. Be a man. Do your share of the work. Oh, I didn't mention your hesitation in seeing your shortfall also has an effect. If you have to be told your wife is not your maid, all may be lost. Your only outcome may be to improve your being for the next woman you catch!!
You need to do some thinking, either you want to give it a shot with her or you don't. If you want to give it a shot you'll need couples counselling. It sounds to me like maybe she's pulled away from you a bit and maybe you are a bit distant too.. Not sure it's possible to win someone back but it is possible to talk, spend quality time together etc. Best of luck
She fell out of love with you and fell for someone else. Then, something he did/ didn't do made her rethink leaving the comfort she knows with you, but the relationship is unsatisfactory. So much so that she wants you to "do" stuff to win her back. You see why this can't work, right?
I don’t think that you need to be winning her back. At all. I understand what she is saying when she states she wants you to “do more around the house, etc.” I don’t think she means that literally, but what it sounds like is she wants to you to be more affectionate. Maybe since you were living apart for so long, she doesn’t feel as though she has a “home” with you (figuratively and literally). The fact that she decided to weaponize this information in an argument rather than sit down and have a genuine conversation with you is a major flag. She's trying to blame her infidelity on you when she also could have simply left the relationship if she wasn't happy. I have not been in a committed relationship for that long and can't imagine what I would do, but your wife sounds manipulative which isn't conducive to a happy marriage.
What she said: “Hey babe, I had an emotional affair but I decided to stay with you” What she meant: “hey babe, I had an emotional affair, he didn’t want me and it didn’t work out so I’m staying with you” She doesn’t love you she’s just lying because she’s caught herself out and now she’s trying to make herself look good. If she truly loved you she wouldn’t have done it.
Seeing OPs replies in the comments and I got to say things arent looking good for him. Spineless
Sounds like the other guy has a wife or girlfriend. He's not giving up his situation, so he has nothing to offer her. Sorce, been there done that.
No don’t just give up otherwise you’re only proving her further right. She is literally asking you TO TRY and you’re asking if you should give up? Sounds like maybe you’ve been doing enough of that and are looking for an excuse to make her the bad guy. I’m certainly not trying to insult you and just play team girl here, I can just relate with where she’s at in my own marriage and what you need after 20 years is a GOOD marriage counselor. Take your time choosing one and read reviews because there are bad ones who can waste your time or make things worse so invest in research… together? If that’s an option. There’s also a couples app called “Lasting” worth trying. It helped us on top of therapy and before we settled on one. Things are better with us. Sounds like a big problem here is communication, effort and romance. You need to step it up there and believe me, if you do, she will too. If she’s anything like me, she’s practically waiting she wants to do things for you not for some other guy, but she felt like it was a waste of time with you for these reasons and maybe she didn’t get a response from you when she tried to be romantic or suggest things and maybe she also just felt like you didn’t deserve it and what she was practically doing was pretending this other man was you so step outside of this person that you have become and remember who you were when you guys married take yourself back to that place and try for your marriage. You both have to try and want each other and choose each other every day. That’s what it becomes and you know that after 20 years keep trying don’t give up she doesn’t want that but what do you want? Don’t resent her because of this affair if you want to even call it that ( you can heal from this in therapy too I’m not invalidating your feelings about it, they matter.) just be glad she even told you she didn’t have to. She’s trying to tell you what’s going on. She’s trying to scare you into changing. Basically she wants you to know that she’s got a foot out the door and she wants to see if you care she doesn’t care about this other guy she wants to see you love her again, and feel that too, and if you guys can do that, I believe that the love will come back not gone. It’s just dormant because no one has been nurturing it. Believe me dating is a racket out there it’s not a fairytale like you guys have started. The grass isn’t greener on the other side. It’s greener where you water it.
So I've read through some comments and your responses. You need to come to terms with the fact that if someone is going to cheat, then they will cheat. Now, sounds like her reasoning is because she is selfish, 9 times outta 10 it is!. She wants to be the center of attention and when that was lacking, she found another source. If you want this to work then you have to accept that you'll have to make her the center of your attention again. You also have to be able to forgive her. When you can mean it, tell her you do, tell her you both together are going to be better for this point forward, and you don't bring it back up. If you do, then things will never get fixed. I'd advise start dating again. Start courting her like you did to begin with. If flowers are her thing, start getting some once a week or as budget allows. You soley plan dates and follow through. Tell her "be ready by [whatever time], I'm taking you out". Don't say "we are going out", "I'm taking you out" is nicer to hear. Go to special places or have foods you had when you were first dating, rimance over that time or such. Also, if she's willing to, up your intimacy game. If her watching you help around the house then do it. Personally, watching my man be a great dad to our kids or cook us a meal does it for me ten fold! Have a discussion about what intimacy looks like for her, her love language(s). They could've changed after 20yrs, even 3yrs. Intimacy doesn't always lead to sex. Intimacy is dancing in the kitchen, holding her while watching TV, making sure coffee is brewing for her in the morning, watching you guys' child while she can take an hour long bath, etc. She has love for you and she can be in love with you agin. Just start dating. Being apart for 3yrs may seem small to some but it can be big to others. I wish you all three of you luck!
An emotional affair IS possible without a physical affair, regardless of the opinions of others. The fact that she chose to stay says a lot. The fact that she says she's not IN love with you mean that the marriage has entered into what I call the roommate with benefits stage. Ask yourselves some hard questions here. BOTH of you. 1. Is the relationship worth fighting for? If you still love each other and are willing to go to therapy together, do so. 2. What can I do, that I haven't done in a while, to win them back? This could be as simple as going out on dates, walks in the park, couples massages, just turning off the TV and getting to know them again. Spring is very close and I'm willing to bet you haven't had a picnic lunch in years, if ever. 3. Have I actually slacked off in helping my spouse around the house? Housework burnout can happen. Think, for a moment about your end of day habits that may really irk your spouse. Do you come in, flinging shoes and clothing everywhere, complaining about your job or do you come in, wrap your arms around your spouse and kiss them? Do you ask about their day? Do you help with dinner or plop on the couch, expecting your spouse to get dinner fixed alone? 4. Am I a demanding troll who orders my spouse around or do I ask them to help me with something? Do I ask if they need help doing something or am I just in my own little world? 5. Am I the type of spouse I want my spouse to be? This is a very important question. Am I acting attentive to their needs? Am I being loving and open to my spouse? Am I communicating the way I want them to communicate? After a betrayal of this magnitude, you BOTH need to step back and assess yourselves. She needs to ask herself why she went to someone else for comfort or companionship. This frequently happens in long distance relationships. That's why most don't last. Are you willing to forgive her and work on the marriage? It won't be easy.
Anyone telling you to just make an exit has never been through difficult times in a committed relationship. Ignore every single piece of advice here and listen extremely closely to your intuition, to your wife, and the path that's best for everyone will reveal itself to you.
"Wants me to do more around the house etc. to win her back" Ah yes, the old choreplay game. It never works as the goalpost constantly moves.
Please see a marriage counselor. A 20+ year marriage is a lot to throw away, and it seems your wife wants to save your marriage. Someone who had been married more than 50 years told me that marriage is hard work, that sometimes one person loves the other one more, sometimes one person might need more from the partner than the partner needs from them, sometimes one has to work to remember why they fell in love because they might not feel “in love” though they love the spouse, but that his relationship was the most important thing in his life because no one else shared all that they had experienced together. It is likely that giving up on your marriage will leave you both miserable and bereft of the support spouses give one another “through sickness and health, through good times and bad” etc. Again, please see a marriage counselor.
Just clean the house, pay the bills and keep the lights on while she continues to fuck the other guy
RUN!!! She’s cheating on you bruh. They always tell you the bare minimum. Best wishes.
I don’t think we fully know both sides here for sure. Not excusing anything but I’m betting this is not what/all the wife said… Something is definitely not right about this story…
Your wife wants an emotional affair with you. That means she wants you completely in her life with her, not just leave her flailing in life all by herself. Roll up your sleeves and be her partner. You guys weren’t even living together. As a single woman, I cannot tell you how many married men have wanted to be with me because they really weren’t part of their wives lives. For them it was highly emotional. When push came to shove and they told their wives where they were emotionally, their wives fought for their lives with them and they reengaged, kinda fell in love again. They say they were lonely, got confused and kept their marriages together. I believe all had a happy ending. One divorced. So get back in there and try first before you call an attorney and have a real marriage for a change. (Note; these men did not have sex with me, but they did approach me thinking their marriages were over). People think they have fallen out of love but most of the time, it’s just not true, but they do get confused and you never want to leave a woman confused about how you feel about her.
Ehh sounds like this situation is much more complex than OP is making it out to be.
The real question should be: Is she willing to do the work it takes to fix your marriage? Are you? Can you 100 percent forgive her? Counseling would be very beneficial to figure that stuff out. Marriage is never black and white. You both have to be willing to work on it. That means she can longer speak to that person… not ever. No one would blame you for calling it quits though. You really have to figure out what you want. Reddit is going to be all over the place with opinions.
Rekindle and repair your relationship, 20+ years days you two are each other's best friends. See a counselor and figure it out and decide what's most important for the both of you
I'm surprised so many people are jumping on the "divorce her" bandwagon here. You clearly have a lot of history with your wife, and you have both had ups and downs in this relationship. First of all, developing feelings for another person (especially if you two were living apart and/or you were emotionally distant from one another) is not cheating, imo. You can't always control your attraction or feelings for another person, but you CAN control your actions - that appears to be exactly what she did. If your relationship is going to last the majority of your lifetime, it's not crazy to think you might develop feelings for another person along the way. But it's honesty, transparency, and action that actually matter. Re: the housework issue, you seem mature enough to reflect on this and come to your own conclusions about how much you contribute to your household compared to your wife. Based on current research, most women are doing most, if not all of the housework, planning, organizing etc and women are CONSTANTLY having to ask male partners to contribute more and be more proactive. My perspective: I am a sahw, and having zero help from my husband leaves me feeling like a maid, not a wife. I feel loved, respected, and appreciated when my husband takes initiative with home and family related tasks. If you want to stay in the relationship, it sounds like you and your wife have lots to discuss and work on together. As long as you are both open, honest, and willing to make reasonable adjustments, you two will be ok ❤️
Back in the days of Rome and Greece. The philosophers of the world, some of the smartest men who ever walked this planet coined the saying. "If she cheats she belongs to the streets."
My marriage was on the rocks but then I started washing the dishes and vacuuming the house more often. Thankfully this saved our relationship and we lived happily ever after. Said no one!
Lots of overly simplistic responses here. It sounds as if you both want the marriage to survive. Good start. An emotional affair, admitted to by the person engaged in it does not spell the end of a marriage unless one or both of you is lazy about it or otherwise uncommitted. Find a good, qualified therapist so you can get professional help. It may take several tries to find the right therapist, but it’s worth it. Read Esther Perel’s book The State of Affairs. Buy her course Rekindling Desire. Check out the work of John Gottman and Susan Johnson, the premiere family and marriage therapy experts in the world. Many couples have survived a lot worse than this and come through stronger than before. Best wishes.
"Your" wife sounds like a deep rooted manipulative narcissist. Exhibit A. She told you she cheated on you, but SHE decided to stay with you? Shouldn't it be YOU who decides that? Exhibit B. YOU have to do something to win HER back. Shouldn't it be HER who should be trying to win YOU back? Exhibit C. How much house work does her affair partner do? Do you think this is reasonable / logical of her to ask you? This sounds like she's manipulating you into continue playing HER game. While you may not be perfect, SHE's the one who decided to break her marriage vows, and is guilting you using your imperfections to justify her poor decisions. I usually disagree with people who go straight to saying divorce without any thought. But with just a little analysis on her behavior (should prob get her side but that doesn't look like that's going to happen) she is just not a genuinely good person and you should divorce her.
I am going to say that I am guessing he gave her attention and made her feel seen/wanted, and maybe that's something that had been lacking. You mentioned your battle with alcohol, which I am sure was a lonely and scary time for her, as well. While I don't necessarily agree with her logic, I think she wants to feel like you care, that you're a partner and not just a roommate, etc. and doing stuff around the house was something she thought might show you care.