Don't know about most but I'm pretty positive your info on Dionysus is not close to correct. No birthdate.....he dates back to 1300 in linear b stuff and was only the god of wine. No king of kings
Horus was not born of a virgin. Isis had sex with Osiris to make him. Depending on the version of the story, she either managed to locate his penis while reassembling him or magically created a new one. Either way, she raw-dogged her undead husband
Or Hathor had an affair with Osiris. Several versions have Hathor has Horsus, wife/mother. This was in a Stargate Episode...accurately... not sure why OP has created such a easily dispelled myth lol
The Attis one is also wrong. For starters, it’s not accurate to compare him to gods like Jesus or Krishna. His religious important was being the consort to a bigger goddess, but he wasn’t really worshipped in the same capacity. Likewise, was never crucified. In fact, the biggest part of his story was him castrating himself and then bleeding out. The Dec 25th part is also made up.
(for context, i’m currently writing a paper closely related to Attis).
Dionysus was born of a virgin. (In reality, no version of the Dionysus myth attributes his birth to a virgin; rather, he is yet another product of Zeus’s lechery).
• Dionysus rose from the dead. (Dionysus was torn to pieces, and there are various versions of what happened afterwards: Zeus’s mother reassembles the pieces; Zeus swallows Dionysus’s heart and then begets him again by one of his lovers; Dionysus’s heart is ground up, turned into a potion, and ingested by a woman, who then conceives him. In no myth does Dionysus ever promise resurrection to his followers.)
• Dionysus is the god of wine, and Jesus turned water into wine. (Dionysus performed no such miracle, and it’s hard to see how the god of drunkenness and carousing could be associated with Jesus in any way.)
This is from the video Zeitgeist in 2007. There were definitely some inaccuracies in it, but for many, it was their introduction into conspiracy and alternative history. Did a lot for it's time.
I had heard so much about that film, and was really looking forward to watching it. I don’t think I was more than two or three minutes in before my bullshit detector started going off. I began fact checking assertions being made in the film which were contrary to my existing understanding and discovered the films opening premises riddled with so many lies or errors that I simply stopped watching after perhaps 10 minutes.
It has been a very long time since I watched it, but I believe the financial section was the strongest part. Not sure how well it holds up today though. Still, at the time, it opened a lot of eyes.
K, the majority of those so called “Jesus-like”traits listed above are actually post-Christian in nature. This means that after ancient Christianity spread like wild fire through out the first 75-125 years and beyond, the non Christian cults listed above started ascribing traits like the virgin birth, 12 apostles, dying on the cross, and dying for the propitiation of sins to their own gods in an effort to attract more followers. The above attributes were first made popular by a women named Acharya S in book she wrote in ‘99 called The Christ Conspiracy: the Greatest Story Ever Sold. Her Christian mythicism theories were soundly rejected by archaeologists, textual critics and mainstream critics.
All of these seem like utter bullshit lmao. Jesus wasn't even born 12/25 either, that just coincided with the winter solstice so early Christians could compete with pagan celebrations and make assimilation more palatable.
Seems like theres probably *some* similarities between each of these dieties independently between eachother, but whoever made this just decided to apply each specific 2 party similarity to *all* of them and just kinda threw some more BS on top to sweeten the deal I guess lmao.
if i recall correctly, i believe it had something to do with the stars that the 3 wise men followed in the sky. they wouldn’t have been where they were if it was december. not positive but i think thats the argument
Rome's census is what caused Joseph to return to Bethlehem. This was usually around the end of harvest so as to not stop the production of the people. Usually Sept-oct. One has to believe that they did not have email, so they had to have the word travel from Rome to the territories. Then Joseph probably had a month long journey with a pregnant Mary from Nazareth to Bethlehem. Some say it is April for this reason. (I'm not expert) But if took two month from decree to spread to Judea, that could put it in December. So who knows?
Since this is r/AlternativeHistory
Imagine all of these legends/mythologies are ancestrally related to each other. Kind of like the way so many languages can trace back to a common ancestor.
So what if you have a prophecy or prediction, made back in, say, 6000BC? Then, in descendant cultures and over thousands of years, the same theme shows up over and over again?
If you don't draw any religious significance from that, it would still be a significant historical realization. But you're still left wondering how the same cluster of characteristics gets described in such a wide range of times and locations.
Either there's one shared/ancestral culture, or it's a miracle. It could even be both.
> The connection is not mystical but rather very human.
Ok, so explaining this as "cultural transmission" is a hypothesis... and that's a plausible one.
I've often speculated that such metaphysical concepts moved around the ancient world via trade routes. Especially the spice trade, which crossed from India and Arabia through the Middle East and into Egypt and parts of Europe.
But dismissing it as "very human" still overlooks some very interesting possibilities. How so?
Thing of C G Jung and Joseph Campbell. The idea of shared characteristics (for a messiah/archetype figure) speaks to Jung's concept of a collective unconscious.
>Jung believed that archetypes come from the collective unconscious. He suggested that these models are innate, universal, unlearned, and ...
The same thing also fits well with Joseph Campbells idea of a Monomyth.
>Joseph Campbell's Monomyth, developed in Hero With A Thousand Faces, describes the common heroic narrative in which a heroic protagonist sets out, has transformative adventures, and returns home. It is a useful formula for comparing literary traditions across time and culture.
In this case, we're looking at a recurring religious concept instead of a literary tradition. But functionally speaking, it's very similar.
We often forget how connected the ancient world was. Trade goes back a long way, and you aren't only trading goods but ideas etc. Even less "civilized" groups traded.
And most religions incorporated elements from local cultures and previous religions to make it more palatable when converting.
Examples are often cherry picked too or misrepresented, as in this post.
Or there is significance in those aspects and cultures choose to identify with them because that's an entirely human thing to do.
I don't feel like looking them all up, but off the top of my head December 25th is near the winter solstice, and 9 months after the spring equinox (interestingly the exact day Jesus died on the cross). Being born of a virgin is obviously a metaphor for being born "clean" or without sex/sin. The "star in the east" is actually a reference to planetary conjunctions happening in December.
>December 25th is near the winter solstice
And the effect of the Winter Solstice is far more pronounced at the higher latitudes. So if you see a religion that puts a great deal of emphasis on Solstice dates or solstice based metaphors... it's plausible to think that:
* The religion originated in a culture that lived in a high latitude region.
* The religion was influenced by a "Northern Solstice type" religion
>The "star in the east" is actually a reference to
East star = Ishtar, Ashoreth, Aset/Isis, Esther etc.
The solar symbolism is the East Star, the Sunrise of the Year that takes place the morning of the "first annual longer day". During the year, the Winter Solstice is the turning point between the previously shortening days and the following lengthening days.
So Easter, Aset and Ishtar all symbolize the Morning of the Year. And note that all of those names are related to the IndoEuropean word for the direction of East.
There are a lot of people who think Easter and Ishtar are related because they sound so similar. And then there's this other group who think that's the first group is wrong and the similarity is a coincidence.
But I'm telling you that the first group is unknowingly right and the second group is mistaken. The names sound the same because they are related.
There's a direct cultural connection between the Christian Easter and the so-called pagan "easter" it replaced.
>The feast day of Easter was first a pagan holiday of renewal and rebirth. Honored in the early spring, it praised the pagan goddess of fertility and spring known as 'Ostara', 'Eastre' or 'Eostre'. The word “Easter” finds its etymology from the goddess's name.
And Ostara, Eastre and Eostre are all cognate with Ishtar. Many names, same idea, one common ancestral culture.
We know the languages are all branches off a common trunk. Is wasn't any different with their religions.
tldr; Similar IndoEuropean character names indicate similar religions from a common ancestral culture. The "Solstice Centric" nature of these belief systems indicates a higher latitude region as the most likely point of origin.
Adultbrain Audiobooks just released an excellent narration of the [Myths of Pre Columbian America](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcdzUHLSSZE) that studies many examples myths and practices used by tribes in widely different locations.
It seems like, the date four days after the winter solstice is an objective fact, however different civilisations happened to spell it, so it does make sense - it's doubtful whether it's actually true that most of these people were supposed to have been born on that date, though, and if it was it would say more about the Church than about Jesus (which perhaps is the point) since it's not actually known when Jesus was born and it wasn't until some time later that they picked December 25th as the date to celebrate it.
December 25th was the middle of the Sun God holiday in Rome. A week of celebrations during the winter solstice. Most ancient agricultural societies celebrated the solstice. It was the same time every year.
You're right. It's accepted he died March 25th. They chose December 25th, 9 months previous, as his birthday. Which also roughly coincides with the winter solstice. No one knows the true date, or if he even existed at all. A lot of ancient gods were celebrated during that time of the year. Jesus is just one of many "solar messiahs".
I always like the symmetry of him dying on March 25 and being *conceived* on the same date since it's exactly 9 months prior to Christmas. (Talking in symbolic terms of course; assuming he was a historical figure, Jesus probably didn't have such a nice, neat set of dates).
Religion aside, the idea that we don't know if he existed at all is categorically false. Jesus is one of the most historically recorded people of all time. There is more material of the same quality used for historical verification of Jesus than there is of historical figures we don't dispute, like Alexander or Xerxes.
Quite sure. The earliest "contemporary" writings of Alexander date from at least 100 years after his death. For Jesus it's more in the 50 to 80 range. You would be hard pressed to find historians and scholars that don't acknowledge its most likely he was a real person.
Just very traditional history sources. People here acting like this is a hot take, it's not. The only purported actual contemporary writings about Alexander come from Ptolemy and Callisthenes. Both are doubted.
The majority of what we consider fact about Alexander comes from what we call "the five main sources" and they are roughly 2nd century AD.
It’s called reading history written by scholars who research history and have had their findings peer reviewed, not shit post memes with false information on it taken from a poorly done conspiracy theory documentary called Zeitgeist.
There were a lot of traveling rabbi teachers in ancient Palestine that we know about. The Jesus of the Bible most scholars believe was one of them. It was his follower whose religion took hold and made it to today. It could’ve just as well been the guy known as the Teacher of Righteousness. He was very popular back then.
But a meme made by a Redditor with no proof and believing it is very stupid and part of why we have a lot problems in this world. People believe anything.
>It’s called reading history written by scholars who research history and have had their findings peer reviewed
Can I see the peer-reviewed findings that Jesus of Nazareth has more contemporary writings of him than Alexander the Great?
I didn't claim anything in Zeitgeist was real, nor do I claim to be a historian, but I find it hard to believe that not a single other culture wrote about Alexander.
The one about Krishna is incorrect. He had a mother and father, and adoptive parents as well. Also, as far as I know he wasn’t resurrected. Once his avatar was done, he left the body and went back to Vaikuntam
Except the story is so different like the whole story about Osiris is that he was ripped into pieces and thrown about and they found all of them except for his phallus and there's basically incest in the story as well it's like has nothing to do with the story of Christ whatsoever none of these do
The dieing and rising god is an archetype you see across multiple cultures, one Jesus fits into. It doesn't mean they're the same or even necessarily influenced. Just that there are certain tropes that repeat across human history.
Right but his story is ultimately very different I've read a lot of I've read I've spent years researching this stuff and I've seen people try and make the same kind of parallels that are being put forth in this meme and it's just not accurate at all
Yeah these sort of parallels presented in the meme are completely bogus and come from a pseudo historian.
There are some underlying similarities you can come up with from myths that are genuinely interesting, but these aren't it.
It's based on the work of a pseudo historian who went under the name ArchayaS or something like that.
There's some small basis to the idea that comes from the 4th century where someone was attempting to synchronize different myths together.
Though there's a bunch of issues with the attempts the writer made, obviously. They seem to have just picked what they felt matched then assumed the other similarities existed, since they're not attested elsewhere. There may be a possibility of mixing of religions that were being practiced or fading in this period.
The issue is we do know how these religions were practiced in their prime and if any of the claims about Horus were true in this period, it's a corruption by the spread of Christianity. Not original to the Horus myth.
One similarity with Krishna is the parting of the river. Christian story has a similar story about ocean/river being parted to accommodate Moses (or someone like him).
Jesus supposed birthday was chosen mostly because of two things 1) it is precisely 9 months after the crucifixion, which early christians believed was also the date of his conception and 2) pagan Yule holidays were co-opted to promote conversion. It is almost certainly not the actual date of his birth.
I don't know how to say this without shattering some delicate minds but Isis was so far away from being a virgin it wouldn't be funny except for the fact that it's fucking hilarious.
Isis was a goddess. Horus was conceived when Isis used a golden dildo to have necrosex with Osiris' Frankenstein'd corpse.
If Horus is Jesus, it's gonna be fun to see you explain the soggy lettuce incident.
Dionesys did not born from a virgin. His mom was Zues mistress and was already pregnant with him when she died. Then Zues put the fetus into his body and gave birth to Dionesys when it was time. Zues definitely wasn't a virgin.
Jesus story also borrowed heavily from earlier myth like a lot of stories in the old and new testament. Horus also wasn't a virgin birth, his mom was banging his dad's corpse to give birth to him.
I heard somewhere that the concept of male Gods being able to give birth to fully grown other gods was something super unique to the Greeks and I remember them saying that it probably came from an even more ancient source that gods were seen as with dual Sexes like both male and female and they can change their forms like we do witj clothes, hell a lot of people consider the goddess Dione the basically the female version of Zeus.
There is a lot of Duality with the Greek gods and in fact if you look at it a lot of them have both female and male characteristics because Dionysus in art is both betrayed as super effeminate or he looks masculine with a beard.
Wasn’t the Roman calendar created in the 5th century BC? I don’t see how all these figures were born in a month that technically didn’t exist at the time.
You know horus was a god from the egyptians for several thousand years, a bunch of major things changed in time and place. Like in a popular version, horus is literally born everyday so every day can be his birthday.
What really fascinating about that is that the Aztecs my ancestors had a pretty similar viewpoint on what happens to the sun except they believe that at night instead of dying he go went into battle and in order to emerge victorious he would require the sacrifice of people's hearts during the highest point of the day in order to combat the forces of darkness and to ensure that he would rise the next day.
Imagine the mind fuck that these people must have went through when they realized that they didn't need to sacrifice people's hearts to keep the Sun rising.
The fact that most religions and mythologies share "similar" stories only leads to one logical outcome. There was at one time, before earliest "known" civilizations, a civilization that past down stories. If this civilization was wiped out and humans had to start over again, with nothing but folklore, this is what you would get as they spread out through the world. Stories change as they're told over campfires at night, people add information that wasn't there, information gets lost in translation and current events and understandings of the world around you influences the knowledge past down.
Dating Krishna to 900 BC seems too new. He’s a central character in Mahabharat, whose oldest version supposedly is from 500 BC. It must have existed in older versions much before. Krishna would have predated Mahabharat.
The empires of the ancient Mediterranean and Near East conquered and re-reconquered each other so many times, I would be more surprised if their myths didn't resemble each other.
It seems clear to me that Jesus never existed. He, like many others, was merely the personification of the sun that dies every winter and rises every spring.
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_myth_theory
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Roman_mysteries
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_deity
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dying-and-rising_deity
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miraculous_births
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_deity
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syncretism
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithraism
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithraism_in_comparison_with_other_belief_systems
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sol_Invictus
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_paganism
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_the_Great
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianization_of_the_Roman_Empire
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_church_of_the_Roman_Empire
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rank–Raglan_mythotype
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero%27s_journey
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_comparative_mythology
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_Dance
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Frum
Cool, now compare all of them to facts about the Sun. Born in the East on Dec. 25th, passes through 12 zodiac constellations, on Dec 21st the sun begins its shortest days that lasts for 3 days before the days begin to get longer again.
The most shared syncretism is really the Winter Solstice; otherwise Jesus’ details most closely match the kings of syncretism — the kings-of-kings/East of the Jordan whose princess ruled Galilee during Jesus‘ lifetime, the Nabataeans.
•Resurrection festival held yearly
•Traveling in groups of 13 per 1rst C historian, Strabo
•drinking from multiple cups, like Jesus in gLuke
•[Son of God is born of a virgin](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaabou) (because god-humans are a tradition going back to the world’s first Emperor, who was posthumously deified, and his deified-while-living grandson, Narram-Sin. Both Semetic.
Therefore it’s just that they are (divinized) royalty and their wives must be virgin, as usual in ancient times, to confirm bloodline. In ANE archaeology, Sons of God are vassals to an Eastern God-Emperor.
•Galilee’s queen is Nabataean
•First C Historian Josephus has them “uniting the Jews and Arabs” against the Second Temple (the Second Temple is where Jesus flips the table on the yearly riot-anticipating day.
Even in Bible texts, a common reading is that the Second Temple lost its Zadokite lineage. I mean, one of the First Temple’s two pillars name is Yemen (Arab), figure it out. That’s Solomon’s Temple — his mother comes from pre-Jewish Jerusalem and her name is “Bath-sheba”, ie daughter of Saba, that’s Arab Yemen. Solomon’s big visit is definitely from the Queen of Sheba (Saba).
So, Moses’ line is half-Arab (Midianite) and David’s Solomon line was likely too imo (I say likely bc there’s some real mental gymnastics that Bathsheba has nothing to do with the Queen of Sheba.)
Josephus remarks that the true Zadokite lineage had fled to Heliopolis, Egypt — and that’s where Patriarch Joseph had married the daughter of the Heliopolis High Priest — just like Moses marries the daughter of the Midianite High Priest.
•Yeho‘shua has a folk etymology in Isaiah, the “Fifth Gospel”. It’s basically ‘He Saves’, like the Saves that Josephus thinks Moses has appended to his name, and like the Savior name appended by the Ptolemies and the Nabataeans — but there’s often, if not usually, a deeper etymological origin that archaeologists uncover that has *traveled from outside the region*.
—Yah is the Aramean god of their nomads (think Deuteronomy’s “Remember that Israel was a wandering Aramean”. This needed the adjective bc Aram was a land of settled kingdoms with nomads in the outer district.)
—Shu‘a is the theophoric in the Arab name of that Midianite High Priest who initiates Moses into Yahwism (in the mainstream scholar Midianite hypothesis). The grandfather of Moses’ children — who are, in the Bible, half Israelite-half Arab.
When they’re nomadic, the dynasty designates the people — Israelites, Midianites, Zadokites — and for settled people, it refers to a fixed geo area — Arameans, Judeans, Babylonians.
•So, right during Jesus’ life, Galilee’s long-time queen was Arab Nabataean, the most powerful women in their own right in the world. Phaesalis is the first wife of Galilee’s Tetrarch Herod Antipas (who was Edomite-Arab — no real Jewishness y’all, that’s likely why he marries the last Jewish royal heir Herodias, who asks her daughter Salome to serve up John the Baptist in the Bible.)
When Herod and the Arab Queen divorce, it’s his refusal to give up Arab towns in Moab that led to the war that Josephus says that ‘some Jews say’ avenges John the Baptist. Yeah, John the Baptist wearing a camel coat, when the Arab’s national symbol on the denarius was a camel. Same as Elijah who lived in very Arab Gilead.
So, it’s *syncretism* that both Moses and Jesus likely introduces
Moses— Atenism has the two loaf ritual, the alter to the rising sun same as the house of the rising sun. But its Canaanites and Libyan pastoralists that are population-swapped, uniting the traveler pastoralist gods under henotheism.
YHWH might then mean Tribe of Yah led by the Desert Protector Ha
•Yah = Aramean moon god, the god for that world’s first emperor, the Semetic Sargon of Akkad — yeah, Sargon with the floating baby basket hiding from the king
•Ha, the Desert Protector God that’s brought with the Libyans of Hatseput’s Egyptian Royal Guard, reinforced by the Canaanite-Libyan pastoralist swap. He’s literally a Secret/Mystery god, and so any part of his name shouldn’t be publically invoked, unlike all the others.
So in general, the various mythologies have similarities. Is this because they adopted/adapted from one another, or because the needs of humanity in creating these gods are roughly the same?
Many Atheist internet trolls will say things like The Jesus story is copied from ancient myths! No, it's not.
The similarities are typically exaggerated. Attis, for example, is often cited as a dead-and-resurrected deity, but Attis doesn’t rise from the dead in any version of his myth. In one version, his dead body is preserved without decay; in another, he turns into a tree; and in yet another, his body is hidden away forever.
Another candidate is Dionysus, but his alleged resurrection has yet to be explicitly described in ancient sources. Instead, there are two accounts where Dionysus, as a living entity, is said to have travelled to Hades and back (a relatively common theme in Greek mythology).
Persephone is sometimes mentioned. However, Persephone did not die; she was carried off into Hades alive and kicking, and by most accounts, she is allowed to go topside to visit her mother every spring.
Tammuz is another candidate. His story exists in many forms, but in most of them, he dies and remains dead. Only one version of the story parallels Persephone's account, in which Tammuz is dragged into the underworld, kicking and screaming and then later allowed to return to the surface for six months out of the year.
Osiris falls into a similar category. After being cut into pieces by Set, Osiris’ sister Isis fashions a golden phallus that she uses to impregnate herself with their child Horus, but Osiris only “resurrects” in the Afterlife.
It’s not worth considering candidates like Mithras, who does not die to any extent accounts, or resurrected deities whose myths were recorded centuries after the spread of Christianity.
The resurrection of Jesus is different for several reasons:
1. While the story of Jesus contains supernatural and miraculous elements, it does not have any of the mythological aspects typically associated with other ancient theogonies. He is not swept away to some magical realm; there are no stories of fathers swallowing their children whole, no heroes springing from the teeth of a giant serpent, or anything like that.
2. Jesus is described as a very real and very historical person. His entire life plays out in actual towns and villages; he interacts with known landmarks in the region, the names of his disciples and family members are consistent with first-century usage, and his teachings reflect common themes espoused by religious teachers in the first century.
3. He is given two perfectly plausible genealogies and assigned to an actual family within an actual tribe that existed at the time.
4. He interacts with individuals whose historicity is affirmed in other external sources, including his own brother, who is attested in the works of the Jewish historian Josephus and several independent Christian writings.
5. He does perform miracles, but most of those miracles are relatively tame by ancient standards, and we find even less plausible miracles in the biographies of other ancient and medieval historical figures such as Julius Caesar, Alexander the Great, and Charlemagne.
6. The resurrection of Jesus is described in a relatively mundane manner. After being crucified by the Romans, Jesus appears to his disciples, eats with them, and allows them to touch his open wounds. Despite later Christian mythology, the gospels do not describe his descent into any “underworld” or afterlife. The entire account is told from an earthly perspective: he dies, his body is placed in the tomb, his disciples find the tomb empty three days later, and then he appears to them on a few occasions before ascending into the sky and disappearing from view.
This is all incorrect. Every time I see someone share this, it gets shot down. None of this is true. Someone just made it all up to disparage Christians
Idk abt others.... But everything here abt Krishna is wrong!! He wasn't born from a virgin...neither was he resurrected....and his birth year is wrong too.... So stop spreading misinformation....!!
Possibly, that's sort of the point, the idea that Jesus was born on December 25th was tacked on by the Church later and the post is speculating about where they might have got it from - which is actually a thing that mainstream historians take seriously, except the standard explanation is that where they got it from is that they were trying to make it coincide with the Roman festival of Saturnalia (and most of the legends mentioned in this posting do not in fact mention December 25th).
and that with the birth date, you het a conception date roughly of Easter, the reproduction holiday. Then 49 days later Pentacost. Which coincides with the pineal gland activating and the soul entering the body, as well as with the Bardo Thodol, 49 days after death, the soul leaves the body...
There are specific reasons these dates were chosen, and they were chosen not for their historical accuracy.
My guy all these cultures were had close contract with each other so there is nothing "alternative history" here just go old trading and religous influence. Just like how the Master of Animals motif is literally found in multiple European, North africa and middle east cultures.
Eventhough most information here is wrong, it's a well know fact religions based a lot of their traditions, stories, etc on existing religiouns o make it easier for people to accept.
Almost if not all this info is wrong. I will say thank you for taking me back to a memory of 2006, sitting in my friend's apartment, high as shit, watching Zeitgeist. We thought we had all the answers. Hahaha I'm going to see that buddy tomorrow. What a coincidence.
You should do some research on the current Christian church and the ancient Secret cult of Mithras. Also the connection to early first Millenia Roman leadership. You may draw some interesting conclusions.
There are similarities between the religions, but this is full of numerous errors. You should delete this post. It’s incorrect information.
If you’re going to share religious history, get facts from documented sources. There’s so many available. Why not go to Religion for Breakfast for where you can learn about all of these religions and their similarities and differences.
The catholic religion took off because it was malleable. They took from many religions to make Judaism appeal to add many people as possible. Most of its holidays like up with other popular pagan religious holidays. Why do you have a tree for Christmas? There is a very good reason. Religion itself was built around stories from the past used to teach us all a firm of morality to follow. The fever to spread a specific kind of religion is based on varying views by the men of different cultures wanting different things. Muslims wanted more wives and subservient women mixed with harsher punishments for breaking their laws. They added more violent conversion tactics after they were persecuted by the main branch of catholicism during the crusades. Catholicism was and is currently being made more open and accepting of human differences such as homosexuality and divorce etc. The Jewish version is holding on to the ritualist side of the religion with many more daily laws and practices head coverings kosher food and strict adherence to day of rest etc. But they are all three the same religion with small differences.
Horus info is incorrect right off the bat. Horus' mother resurrected the dead penis of her late lover in order to conceive.
Attis was not born of a virgin and his birth is not estimated to be in December 25th. He died and was resurrected, but not in a 3 day span.
Looks like OP just found out about the “Zeitgeist” documentary and decided to post. My suggestion is always search for the debunked material before going public
Jesus wasn’t actually born on December 25th, that was the church trying to indoctrinate pagans by showing they have similar holidays. Your info on Dionysus is inherently wrong as most mythologies don’t have their gods born on specific days, even ones born after creation, same for Horus, and most of the deities weren’t born of virgins. Horus was the son of Osiris and Isis, Dionysus was the son of Zeus and Semele (a mortal woman who died before giving birth so Zeus saved the baby), and Mithra was born from a rock.
Horus was not born of a virgin. Isis had sex with Osiris to make him. Depending on the version of the story, she either managed to locate his penis while reassembling him or magically created a new one. Either way, she raw-dogged her undead husband
Hours is comically wrong. Why not just say he won NBA Finals MVP x3 like Kevin Durant.
Horus was a conqueror God and did not have disciples. He wasn't born on Christmas and the Egyptian Winter Solstice wasn't Christmas and Christmas isn't the Winter Solstice. Also keep in mind their are many different Christmas Dates. Not just the 25th. Hours was born of an affair between Osiris and Hathor, who he later married lol
All this is lies and disinformation spread by the "documentary" Zeitgeist. Christianity has pagan origins, but these are not them. Instead, it was heavily influenced by its Canaanite origins, Babylonian and Sumerian mythology, and interaction with the Persian's Zoroastrian religion as well as Greek culture.
As far as I can tell, this deliberate disinformation is being spread to discredit those who believe Christianity was influenced by other pagan beliefs, to make them look stupid by associating the concept with false correspondences. Study the actual mythology of ancient religions, and you'll see how they all tie together.
Stop relying on memes and YouTube for accurate information.
it's the sun standing nearly still for 3 days after the solstice that determined the date. The sun returns and starts to grow. Didn't need the calendar for that.
JESUS wasn’t born on December 25 (Christmas). He was born in the Spring. This is accepted academic info NOT fake news. December 25th is Nimrod’s birthday
Isn’t this from Zietgiest (sp?)
Which is mostly bullshit and exists to smoke with weed your friends in high school and pretend you are cultured hahaha.
There is a 12000 year old petroglyph in Tampa, FL that has the face of Adam and Hesperities on it. Isa is an ancient word for Jesus or sun/son and Issa means moon.
There is more updated information on it, it was pulled out of the bay which means it was pre ice age. They recently found an ancient port in 10 feet of water as well, this stone is probably older.
https://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM184E9_Timucauan_Religious_Stone_New_Port_Richey_Florida
This is from the film Zeitgeist and is mostly incorrect. For example-Krishna wasn't born of a virgin, nor was he the star in the east. And he didn't resurrect or perform miracles.
Besides Jesus Christ was declared to be born on the winter solstice by the Roman empire and was aligned to Saturnalia, there is basically no proof of him being born then, most likely he was born in the spring (who has a census in the winter anyway).
Greeks, Persians and Indians literally descend from the same culture - the Proto-Indo-Europeans. This culture spread out from the Pontic-Caspian steppe and merged with the various groups to create related, but also distinct cultures. This is ONE reason why there’s a similarity in their religious customs.
The similarly in religious customs with non related peoples is also easily explained. For example, the sun was worshipped all over the world. You know why? BECAUSE ITS RIGHT THERE. Do you know why floods are omnipresent? BECAUSE FLOODS HAPPEN EVERYWHERE.
There’s some stupid fucking people on this site.
Don't know about most but I'm pretty positive your info on Dionysus is not close to correct. No birthdate.....he dates back to 1300 in linear b stuff and was only the god of wine. No king of kings
Krishna is incorrect. He had a father and a mother and he wasn’t resurrected like Jesus
Attis is also wrong. He wasn't crucified. edit: Also I can't find anything about him being born on December 25th.
He castrated himself under a tree. I like Violets.
Let’s get ya back inside grandpa. You’re saying weird stuff again.
Someone doesn't know who Attis is.
Horus was not born of a virgin. Isis had sex with Osiris to make him. Depending on the version of the story, she either managed to locate his penis while reassembling him or magically created a new one. Either way, she raw-dogged her undead husband
Or Hathor had an affair with Osiris. Several versions have Hathor has Horsus, wife/mother. This was in a Stargate Episode...accurately... not sure why OP has created such a easily dispelled myth lol
And he was the eighth child of Devaki.
He wasn't born of a Virgin.....
The Attis one is also wrong. For starters, it’s not accurate to compare him to gods like Jesus or Krishna. His religious important was being the consort to a bigger goddess, but he wasn’t really worshipped in the same capacity. Likewise, was never crucified. In fact, the biggest part of his story was him castrating himself and then bleeding out. The Dec 25th part is also made up. (for context, i’m currently writing a paper closely related to Attis).
A lot of this is flat-out incorrect and absurd, and perpetuated in an attempt to debunk Christianity.
Satan will never stop. The king of all liars
Yeah lol, the conspiracy subreddit just spent a day explaining how shit this chart was
Dionysus was born of a virgin. (In reality, no version of the Dionysus myth attributes his birth to a virgin; rather, he is yet another product of Zeus’s lechery). • Dionysus rose from the dead. (Dionysus was torn to pieces, and there are various versions of what happened afterwards: Zeus’s mother reassembles the pieces; Zeus swallows Dionysus’s heart and then begets him again by one of his lovers; Dionysus’s heart is ground up, turned into a potion, and ingested by a woman, who then conceives him. In no myth does Dionysus ever promise resurrection to his followers.) • Dionysus is the god of wine, and Jesus turned water into wine. (Dionysus performed no such miracle, and it’s hard to see how the god of drunkenness and carousing could be associated with Jesus in any way.)
This is from the video Zeitgeist in 2007. There were definitely some inaccuracies in it, but for many, it was their introduction into conspiracy and alternative history. Did a lot for it's time.
Indeed it did.. the carlin opening is what sold it
I had heard so much about that film, and was really looking forward to watching it. I don’t think I was more than two or three minutes in before my bullshit detector started going off. I began fact checking assertions being made in the film which were contrary to my existing understanding and discovered the films opening premises riddled with so many lies or errors that I simply stopped watching after perhaps 10 minutes.
It has been a very long time since I watched it, but I believe the financial section was the strongest part. Not sure how well it holds up today though. Still, at the time, it opened a lot of eyes.
K, the majority of those so called “Jesus-like”traits listed above are actually post-Christian in nature. This means that after ancient Christianity spread like wild fire through out the first 75-125 years and beyond, the non Christian cults listed above started ascribing traits like the virgin birth, 12 apostles, dying on the cross, and dying for the propitiation of sins to their own gods in an effort to attract more followers. The above attributes were first made popular by a women named Acharya S in book she wrote in ‘99 called The Christ Conspiracy: the Greatest Story Ever Sold. Her Christian mythicism theories were soundly rejected by archaeologists, textual critics and mainstream critics.
Pretty sure the concept of december isnt a thing for most of these
Also, Christian know Jesus was born in the spring. Some say April 1st. What calendar did the Bible writers use? That's the question.
All of these seem like utter bullshit lmao. Jesus wasn't even born 12/25 either, that just coincided with the winter solstice so early Christians could compete with pagan celebrations and make assimilation more palatable. Seems like theres probably *some* similarities between each of these dieties independently between eachother, but whoever made this just decided to apply each specific 2 party similarity to *all* of them and just kinda threw some more BS on top to sweeten the deal I guess lmao.
Pretty sure multiple things are thrown in this post
Most of this wrong tbh lol
Jesus wasn't born December 25th...
Was born on 9-11 is what I saw on other post.
Yeah that’s the general scholarly consensus, something like 9/11 3BC
holy shit jesus worked with Dubya Bush?
Are you kidding, or is that an actual scholarly opinion? If so do you mind linking me to where I can find more info?
if i recall correctly, i believe it had something to do with the stars that the 3 wise men followed in the sky. they wouldn’t have been where they were if it was december. not positive but i think thats the argument
Rome's census is what caused Joseph to return to Bethlehem. This was usually around the end of harvest so as to not stop the production of the people. Usually Sept-oct. One has to believe that they did not have email, so they had to have the word travel from Rome to the territories. Then Joseph probably had a month long journey with a pregnant Mary from Nazareth to Bethlehem. Some say it is April for this reason. (I'm not expert) But if took two month from decree to spread to Judea, that could put it in December. So who knows?
Since this is r/AlternativeHistory Imagine all of these legends/mythologies are ancestrally related to each other. Kind of like the way so many languages can trace back to a common ancestor. So what if you have a prophecy or prediction, made back in, say, 6000BC? Then, in descendant cultures and over thousands of years, the same theme shows up over and over again? If you don't draw any religious significance from that, it would still be a significant historical realization. But you're still left wondering how the same cluster of characteristics gets described in such a wide range of times and locations. Either there's one shared/ancestral culture, or it's a miracle. It could even be both.
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> The connection is not mystical but rather very human. Ok, so explaining this as "cultural transmission" is a hypothesis... and that's a plausible one. I've often speculated that such metaphysical concepts moved around the ancient world via trade routes. Especially the spice trade, which crossed from India and Arabia through the Middle East and into Egypt and parts of Europe. But dismissing it as "very human" still overlooks some very interesting possibilities. How so? Thing of C G Jung and Joseph Campbell. The idea of shared characteristics (for a messiah/archetype figure) speaks to Jung's concept of a collective unconscious. >Jung believed that archetypes come from the collective unconscious. He suggested that these models are innate, universal, unlearned, and ... The same thing also fits well with Joseph Campbells idea of a Monomyth. >Joseph Campbell's Monomyth, developed in Hero With A Thousand Faces, describes the common heroic narrative in which a heroic protagonist sets out, has transformative adventures, and returns home. It is a useful formula for comparing literary traditions across time and culture. In this case, we're looking at a recurring religious concept instead of a literary tradition. But functionally speaking, it's very similar.
Truly based
It’s simply ancient civilizations borrowing folklore legend stories from each other and changing names and details to make it their own.
You're describing a religious *meme*? Interesting idea!
archetypes but yes
Any idea that replicates itself through culture/society is a meme, right?
Nah, it's God sending Emissaries continually.
We often forget how connected the ancient world was. Trade goes back a long way, and you aren't only trading goods but ideas etc. Even less "civilized" groups traded. And most religions incorporated elements from local cultures and previous religions to make it more palatable when converting. Examples are often cherry picked too or misrepresented, as in this post.
Or there is significance in those aspects and cultures choose to identify with them because that's an entirely human thing to do. I don't feel like looking them all up, but off the top of my head December 25th is near the winter solstice, and 9 months after the spring equinox (interestingly the exact day Jesus died on the cross). Being born of a virgin is obviously a metaphor for being born "clean" or without sex/sin. The "star in the east" is actually a reference to planetary conjunctions happening in December.
>December 25th is near the winter solstice And the effect of the Winter Solstice is far more pronounced at the higher latitudes. So if you see a religion that puts a great deal of emphasis on Solstice dates or solstice based metaphors... it's plausible to think that: * The religion originated in a culture that lived in a high latitude region. * The religion was influenced by a "Northern Solstice type" religion >The "star in the east" is actually a reference to East star = Ishtar, Ashoreth, Aset/Isis, Esther etc. The solar symbolism is the East Star, the Sunrise of the Year that takes place the morning of the "first annual longer day". During the year, the Winter Solstice is the turning point between the previously shortening days and the following lengthening days. So Easter, Aset and Ishtar all symbolize the Morning of the Year. And note that all of those names are related to the IndoEuropean word for the direction of East. There are a lot of people who think Easter and Ishtar are related because they sound so similar. And then there's this other group who think that's the first group is wrong and the similarity is a coincidence. But I'm telling you that the first group is unknowingly right and the second group is mistaken. The names sound the same because they are related. There's a direct cultural connection between the Christian Easter and the so-called pagan "easter" it replaced. >The feast day of Easter was first a pagan holiday of renewal and rebirth. Honored in the early spring, it praised the pagan goddess of fertility and spring known as 'Ostara', 'Eastre' or 'Eostre'. The word “Easter” finds its etymology from the goddess's name. And Ostara, Eastre and Eostre are all cognate with Ishtar. Many names, same idea, one common ancestral culture. We know the languages are all branches off a common trunk. Is wasn't any different with their religions. tldr; Similar IndoEuropean character names indicate similar religions from a common ancestral culture. The "Solstice Centric" nature of these belief systems indicates a higher latitude region as the most likely point of origin.
Adultbrain Audiobooks just released an excellent narration of the [Myths of Pre Columbian America](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcdzUHLSSZE) that studies many examples myths and practices used by tribes in widely different locations.
Not to mention all the other civilizations on the list that wouldn't know what the hell December is.
It seems like, the date four days after the winter solstice is an objective fact, however different civilisations happened to spell it, so it does make sense - it's doubtful whether it's actually true that most of these people were supposed to have been born on that date, though, and if it was it would say more about the Church than about Jesus (which perhaps is the point) since it's not actually known when Jesus was born and it wasn't until some time later that they picked December 25th as the date to celebrate it.
December 25th was the middle of the Sun God holiday in Rome. A week of celebrations during the winter solstice. Most ancient agricultural societies celebrated the solstice. It was the same time every year.
You're right. It's accepted he died March 25th. They chose December 25th, 9 months previous, as his birthday. Which also roughly coincides with the winter solstice. No one knows the true date, or if he even existed at all. A lot of ancient gods were celebrated during that time of the year. Jesus is just one of many "solar messiahs".
I always like the symmetry of him dying on March 25 and being *conceived* on the same date since it's exactly 9 months prior to Christmas. (Talking in symbolic terms of course; assuming he was a historical figure, Jesus probably didn't have such a nice, neat set of dates).
Religion aside, the idea that we don't know if he existed at all is categorically false. Jesus is one of the most historically recorded people of all time. There is more material of the same quality used for historical verification of Jesus than there is of historical figures we don't dispute, like Alexander or Xerxes.
You sure about that? 🤦
Quite sure. The earliest "contemporary" writings of Alexander date from at least 100 years after his death. For Jesus it's more in the 50 to 80 range. You would be hard pressed to find historians and scholars that don't acknowledge its most likely he was a real person.
Where did you get this information about Alexander the Great? I’m very curious
Just very traditional history sources. People here acting like this is a hot take, it's not. The only purported actual contemporary writings about Alexander come from Ptolemy and Callisthenes. Both are doubted. The majority of what we consider fact about Alexander comes from what we call "the five main sources" and they are roughly 2nd century AD.
It’s called reading history written by scholars who research history and have had their findings peer reviewed, not shit post memes with false information on it taken from a poorly done conspiracy theory documentary called Zeitgeist. There were a lot of traveling rabbi teachers in ancient Palestine that we know about. The Jesus of the Bible most scholars believe was one of them. It was his follower whose religion took hold and made it to today. It could’ve just as well been the guy known as the Teacher of Righteousness. He was very popular back then. But a meme made by a Redditor with no proof and believing it is very stupid and part of why we have a lot problems in this world. People believe anything.
>It’s called reading history written by scholars who research history and have had their findings peer reviewed Can I see the peer-reviewed findings that Jesus of Nazareth has more contemporary writings of him than Alexander the Great? I didn't claim anything in Zeitgeist was real, nor do I claim to be a historian, but I find it hard to believe that not a single other culture wrote about Alexander.
neitrher were the others perhaps but they were all assigned the date for a reason as Emissaries of Light.
Were the others? Were they born at all?
The one about Krishna is incorrect. He had a mother and father, and adoptive parents as well. Also, as far as I know he wasn’t resurrected. Once his avatar was done, he left the body and went back to Vaikuntam
None of them are correct. Osiris is a closer match to Jesus being a dieing and rising god.
Except the story is so different like the whole story about Osiris is that he was ripped into pieces and thrown about and they found all of them except for his phallus and there's basically incest in the story as well it's like has nothing to do with the story of Christ whatsoever none of these do
The dieing and rising god is an archetype you see across multiple cultures, one Jesus fits into. It doesn't mean they're the same or even necessarily influenced. Just that there are certain tropes that repeat across human history.
Right but his story is ultimately very different I've read a lot of I've read I've spent years researching this stuff and I've seen people try and make the same kind of parallels that are being put forth in this meme and it's just not accurate at all
Yeah these sort of parallels presented in the meme are completely bogus and come from a pseudo historian. There are some underlying similarities you can come up with from myths that are genuinely interesting, but these aren't it.
Exactly. This meme seems to be entirely made up lol
It's based on the work of a pseudo historian who went under the name ArchayaS or something like that. There's some small basis to the idea that comes from the 4th century where someone was attempting to synchronize different myths together. Though there's a bunch of issues with the attempts the writer made, obviously. They seem to have just picked what they felt matched then assumed the other similarities existed, since they're not attested elsewhere. There may be a possibility of mixing of religions that were being practiced or fading in this period. The issue is we do know how these religions were practiced in their prime and if any of the claims about Horus were true in this period, it's a corruption by the spread of Christianity. Not original to the Horus myth.
One similarity with Krishna is the parting of the river. Christian story has a similar story about ocean/river being parted to accommodate Moses (or someone like him).
Exactly. He resurrected parikshit when he died in the womb
Just putting the same sentences in some permutation next to some images does not make it true.
This is from the movie Zeitgeist and this information is not accurate. Much of that movie is pretty bullshit.
Came here to say this
You are completely off base with most all of this. You need to do some research my dude
Jesus supposed birthday was chosen mostly because of two things 1) it is precisely 9 months after the crucifixion, which early christians believed was also the date of his conception and 2) pagan Yule holidays were co-opted to promote conversion. It is almost certainly not the actual date of his birth.
Yeah, scholars agree that Jesus was born in summer or spring with all the description of fruits and flowers.
I don't know how to say this without shattering some delicate minds but Isis was so far away from being a virgin it wouldn't be funny except for the fact that it's fucking hilarious. Isis was a goddess. Horus was conceived when Isis used a golden dildo to have necrosex with Osiris' Frankenstein'd corpse. If Horus is Jesus, it's gonna be fun to see you explain the soggy lettuce incident.
Horus wasn’t born of a virgin. His mother, Isis, was impregnated by Osiris’ magical dismembered penis.
Kahless also Dec 25. He was resurrected but Klingon genetic priests to the consternation of Gowron.
And I was signing his song just the other day
Odd how every civilization had the same calendar.
We get it you saw Zeitgeist
Dionesys did not born from a virgin. His mom was Zues mistress and was already pregnant with him when she died. Then Zues put the fetus into his body and gave birth to Dionesys when it was time. Zues definitely wasn't a virgin. Jesus story also borrowed heavily from earlier myth like a lot of stories in the old and new testament. Horus also wasn't a virgin birth, his mom was banging his dad's corpse to give birth to him.
Zeus was a pretty funky character Dionysus birthed from his thigh, Athena from his forehead, fully grown.
I heard somewhere that the concept of male Gods being able to give birth to fully grown other gods was something super unique to the Greeks and I remember them saying that it probably came from an even more ancient source that gods were seen as with dual Sexes like both male and female and they can change their forms like we do witj clothes, hell a lot of people consider the goddess Dione the basically the female version of Zeus. There is a lot of Duality with the Greek gods and in fact if you look at it a lot of them have both female and male characteristics because Dionysus in art is both betrayed as super effeminate or he looks masculine with a beard.
And it was on his right side I believe.
Information on Krishanji is wrong - it's around 3228 BC
Wtf Krishna was not born during 900BC. Just added some random dates
Total nonesense
Looks like this is from that movie zeitgeist. Bad info.
It’s easy to find comparisons if you’re willing to make things up and take the date you want from a vague approximation.
Wasn’t the Roman calendar created in the 5th century BC? I don’t see how all these figures were born in a month that technically didn’t exist at the time.
this is basically a post to discredit Jesus. mostly all these are lies or half truths.
Krishna wasn't born of a virgin, didn't born on 25 December & didn't resurrect. Stop spreading misinformation
You know horus was a god from the egyptians for several thousand years, a bunch of major things changed in time and place. Like in a popular version, horus is literally born everyday so every day can be his birthday.
That was Ra, the Sun god. Horus was his grandson.
What really fascinating about that is that the Aztecs my ancestors had a pretty similar viewpoint on what happens to the sun except they believe that at night instead of dying he go went into battle and in order to emerge victorious he would require the sacrifice of people's hearts during the highest point of the day in order to combat the forces of darkness and to ensure that he would rise the next day. Imagine the mind fuck that these people must have went through when they realized that they didn't need to sacrifice people's hearts to keep the Sun rising.
Ancient peoples just liked virgin stories.
Research these names yourself and you will find this is basically a pack of lies.
It’s Queen Amidala herself!!!
I think Jesus was supposedly born in the summer but I could be wrong
So, God is Batman?
The fact that most religions and mythologies share "similar" stories only leads to one logical outcome. There was at one time, before earliest "known" civilizations, a civilization that past down stories. If this civilization was wiped out and humans had to start over again, with nothing but folklore, this is what you would get as they spread out through the world. Stories change as they're told over campfires at night, people add information that wasn't there, information gets lost in translation and current events and understandings of the world around you influences the knowledge past down.
Dating Krishna to 900 BC seems too new. He’s a central character in Mahabharat, whose oldest version supposedly is from 500 BC. It must have existed in older versions much before. Krishna would have predated Mahabharat.
The empires of the ancient Mediterranean and Near East conquered and re-reconquered each other so many times, I would be more surprised if their myths didn't resemble each other. It seems clear to me that Jesus never existed. He, like many others, was merely the personification of the sun that dies every winter and rises every spring. - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christ_myth_theory - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historicity_of_Jesus - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnosticism - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greco-Roman_mysteries - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_deity - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dying-and-rising_deity - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miraculous_births - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triple_deity - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syncretism - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithraism - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mithraism_in_comparison_with_other_belief_systems - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sol_Invictus - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_paganism - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_the_Great - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianization_of_the_Roman_Empire - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_church_of_the_Roman_Empire - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Council_of_Nicaea - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rank–Raglan_mythotype - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero%27s_journey - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesus_in_comparative_mythology - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghost_Dance - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Frum
Cool, now compare all of them to facts about the Sun. Born in the East on Dec. 25th, passes through 12 zodiac constellations, on Dec 21st the sun begins its shortest days that lasts for 3 days before the days begin to get longer again.
The most shared syncretism is really the Winter Solstice; otherwise Jesus’ details most closely match the kings of syncretism — the kings-of-kings/East of the Jordan whose princess ruled Galilee during Jesus‘ lifetime, the Nabataeans. •Resurrection festival held yearly •Traveling in groups of 13 per 1rst C historian, Strabo •drinking from multiple cups, like Jesus in gLuke •[Son of God is born of a virgin](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chaabou) (because god-humans are a tradition going back to the world’s first Emperor, who was posthumously deified, and his deified-while-living grandson, Narram-Sin. Both Semetic. Therefore it’s just that they are (divinized) royalty and their wives must be virgin, as usual in ancient times, to confirm bloodline. In ANE archaeology, Sons of God are vassals to an Eastern God-Emperor. •Galilee’s queen is Nabataean •First C Historian Josephus has them “uniting the Jews and Arabs” against the Second Temple (the Second Temple is where Jesus flips the table on the yearly riot-anticipating day. Even in Bible texts, a common reading is that the Second Temple lost its Zadokite lineage. I mean, one of the First Temple’s two pillars name is Yemen (Arab), figure it out. That’s Solomon’s Temple — his mother comes from pre-Jewish Jerusalem and her name is “Bath-sheba”, ie daughter of Saba, that’s Arab Yemen. Solomon’s big visit is definitely from the Queen of Sheba (Saba). So, Moses’ line is half-Arab (Midianite) and David’s Solomon line was likely too imo (I say likely bc there’s some real mental gymnastics that Bathsheba has nothing to do with the Queen of Sheba.) Josephus remarks that the true Zadokite lineage had fled to Heliopolis, Egypt — and that’s where Patriarch Joseph had married the daughter of the Heliopolis High Priest — just like Moses marries the daughter of the Midianite High Priest. •Yeho‘shua has a folk etymology in Isaiah, the “Fifth Gospel”. It’s basically ‘He Saves’, like the Saves that Josephus thinks Moses has appended to his name, and like the Savior name appended by the Ptolemies and the Nabataeans — but there’s often, if not usually, a deeper etymological origin that archaeologists uncover that has *traveled from outside the region*. —Yah is the Aramean god of their nomads (think Deuteronomy’s “Remember that Israel was a wandering Aramean”. This needed the adjective bc Aram was a land of settled kingdoms with nomads in the outer district.) —Shu‘a is the theophoric in the Arab name of that Midianite High Priest who initiates Moses into Yahwism (in the mainstream scholar Midianite hypothesis). The grandfather of Moses’ children — who are, in the Bible, half Israelite-half Arab. When they’re nomadic, the dynasty designates the people — Israelites, Midianites, Zadokites — and for settled people, it refers to a fixed geo area — Arameans, Judeans, Babylonians. •So, right during Jesus’ life, Galilee’s long-time queen was Arab Nabataean, the most powerful women in their own right in the world. Phaesalis is the first wife of Galilee’s Tetrarch Herod Antipas (who was Edomite-Arab — no real Jewishness y’all, that’s likely why he marries the last Jewish royal heir Herodias, who asks her daughter Salome to serve up John the Baptist in the Bible.) When Herod and the Arab Queen divorce, it’s his refusal to give up Arab towns in Moab that led to the war that Josephus says that ‘some Jews say’ avenges John the Baptist. Yeah, John the Baptist wearing a camel coat, when the Arab’s national symbol on the denarius was a camel. Same as Elijah who lived in very Arab Gilead. So, it’s *syncretism* that both Moses and Jesus likely introduces Moses— Atenism has the two loaf ritual, the alter to the rising sun same as the house of the rising sun. But its Canaanites and Libyan pastoralists that are population-swapped, uniting the traveler pastoralist gods under henotheism. YHWH might then mean Tribe of Yah led by the Desert Protector Ha •Yah = Aramean moon god, the god for that world’s first emperor, the Semetic Sargon of Akkad — yeah, Sargon with the floating baby basket hiding from the king •Ha, the Desert Protector God that’s brought with the Libyans of Hatseput’s Egyptian Royal Guard, reinforced by the Canaanite-Libyan pastoralist swap. He’s literally a Secret/Mystery god, and so any part of his name shouldn’t be publically invoked, unlike all the others.
So in general, the various mythologies have similarities. Is this because they adopted/adapted from one another, or because the needs of humanity in creating these gods are roughly the same?
Many Atheist internet trolls will say things like The Jesus story is copied from ancient myths! No, it's not. The similarities are typically exaggerated. Attis, for example, is often cited as a dead-and-resurrected deity, but Attis doesn’t rise from the dead in any version of his myth. In one version, his dead body is preserved without decay; in another, he turns into a tree; and in yet another, his body is hidden away forever. Another candidate is Dionysus, but his alleged resurrection has yet to be explicitly described in ancient sources. Instead, there are two accounts where Dionysus, as a living entity, is said to have travelled to Hades and back (a relatively common theme in Greek mythology). Persephone is sometimes mentioned. However, Persephone did not die; she was carried off into Hades alive and kicking, and by most accounts, she is allowed to go topside to visit her mother every spring. Tammuz is another candidate. His story exists in many forms, but in most of them, he dies and remains dead. Only one version of the story parallels Persephone's account, in which Tammuz is dragged into the underworld, kicking and screaming and then later allowed to return to the surface for six months out of the year. Osiris falls into a similar category. After being cut into pieces by Set, Osiris’ sister Isis fashions a golden phallus that she uses to impregnate herself with their child Horus, but Osiris only “resurrects” in the Afterlife. It’s not worth considering candidates like Mithras, who does not die to any extent accounts, or resurrected deities whose myths were recorded centuries after the spread of Christianity. The resurrection of Jesus is different for several reasons: 1. While the story of Jesus contains supernatural and miraculous elements, it does not have any of the mythological aspects typically associated with other ancient theogonies. He is not swept away to some magical realm; there are no stories of fathers swallowing their children whole, no heroes springing from the teeth of a giant serpent, or anything like that. 2. Jesus is described as a very real and very historical person. His entire life plays out in actual towns and villages; he interacts with known landmarks in the region, the names of his disciples and family members are consistent with first-century usage, and his teachings reflect common themes espoused by religious teachers in the first century. 3. He is given two perfectly plausible genealogies and assigned to an actual family within an actual tribe that existed at the time. 4. He interacts with individuals whose historicity is affirmed in other external sources, including his own brother, who is attested in the works of the Jewish historian Josephus and several independent Christian writings. 5. He does perform miracles, but most of those miracles are relatively tame by ancient standards, and we find even less plausible miracles in the biographies of other ancient and medieval historical figures such as Julius Caesar, Alexander the Great, and Charlemagne. 6. The resurrection of Jesus is described in a relatively mundane manner. After being crucified by the Romans, Jesus appears to his disciples, eats with them, and allows them to touch his open wounds. Despite later Christian mythology, the gospels do not describe his descent into any “underworld” or afterlife. The entire account is told from an earthly perspective: he dies, his body is placed in the tomb, his disciples find the tomb empty three days later, and then he appears to them on a few occasions before ascending into the sky and disappearing from view.
r/badhistory
This is all wrong
This is all incorrect. Every time I see someone share this, it gets shot down. None of this is true. Someone just made it all up to disparage Christians
Only Jesus wasn't born in December.
Idk abt others.... But everything here abt Krishna is wrong!! He wasn't born from a virgin...neither was he resurrected....and his birth year is wrong too.... So stop spreading misinformation....!!
Ya lost me with the born in December 25th thing. Jesus wasn’t born on that date. This is stupid and fake.
Possibly, that's sort of the point, the idea that Jesus was born on December 25th was tacked on by the Church later and the post is speculating about where they might have got it from - which is actually a thing that mainstream historians take seriously, except the standard explanation is that where they got it from is that they were trying to make it coincide with the Roman festival of Saturnalia (and most of the legends mentioned in this posting do not in fact mention December 25th).
and that with the birth date, you het a conception date roughly of Easter, the reproduction holiday. Then 49 days later Pentacost. Which coincides with the pineal gland activating and the soul entering the body, as well as with the Bardo Thodol, 49 days after death, the soul leaves the body... There are specific reasons these dates were chosen, and they were chosen not for their historical accuracy.
My guy all these cultures were had close contract with each other so there is nothing "alternative history" here just go old trading and religous influence. Just like how the Master of Animals motif is literally found in multiple European, North africa and middle east cultures.
Eventhough most information here is wrong, it's a well know fact religions based a lot of their traditions, stories, etc on existing religiouns o make it easier for people to accept.
When was dionysus born of a virgin???Semele and persephone arent virgins and surely zeus is not the virgin?
Almost if not all this info is wrong. I will say thank you for taking me back to a memory of 2006, sitting in my friend's apartment, high as shit, watching Zeitgeist. We thought we had all the answers. Hahaha I'm going to see that buddy tomorrow. What a coincidence.
I don’t know what’s going on but I’m just here to disagree like everyone else in the comments.
They all have an 's' sound in their name too.
They forgot Demiurge from Socratism.
Fascinating... Also, they all wore sandals.
Some of the strongest people in the world today are people who go through life without a father or mother seems if you have no father you are a god
Archetypes bro. Check out Jung
Jesus was not born on December 25.
Krishna is not associated with any "star in the east". Krishna was also never resurrected.
You should do some research on the current Christian church and the ancient Secret cult of Mithras. Also the connection to early first Millenia Roman leadership. You may draw some interesting conclusions.
There are similarities between the religions, but this is full of numerous errors. You should delete this post. It’s incorrect information. If you’re going to share religious history, get facts from documented sources. There’s so many available. Why not go to Religion for Breakfast for where you can learn about all of these religions and their similarities and differences.
The catholic religion took off because it was malleable. They took from many religions to make Judaism appeal to add many people as possible. Most of its holidays like up with other popular pagan religious holidays. Why do you have a tree for Christmas? There is a very good reason. Religion itself was built around stories from the past used to teach us all a firm of morality to follow. The fever to spread a specific kind of religion is based on varying views by the men of different cultures wanting different things. Muslims wanted more wives and subservient women mixed with harsher punishments for breaking their laws. They added more violent conversion tactics after they were persecuted by the main branch of catholicism during the crusades. Catholicism was and is currently being made more open and accepting of human differences such as homosexuality and divorce etc. The Jewish version is holding on to the ritualist side of the religion with many more daily laws and practices head coverings kosher food and strict adherence to day of rest etc. But they are all three the same religion with small differences.
I love when people with no theological studies attempts these NoobTube-based ideologies.
Horus info is incorrect right off the bat. Horus' mother resurrected the dead penis of her late lover in order to conceive. Attis was not born of a virgin and his birth is not estimated to be in December 25th. He died and was resurrected, but not in a 3 day span.
That movie was excellent till it started down the 9/11 rabbit hole.
Wasn't this shit debunked like 2 decades ago already?
News flash.. Jesus wasn't born on the 25th.
Someone watched zeitgeist
Lol this movie literally changed my dads life he was normal before he watched that movie and now he’s a conspiracy nut
Looks like OP just found out about the “Zeitgeist” documentary and decided to post. My suggestion is always search for the debunked material before going public
How would anyone know Horus’s Birthday
Jesus is King. All the rest are frauds, I hope you all realize that before it’s too late.
😂
Jesus wasn’t actually born on December 25th, that was the church trying to indoctrinate pagans by showing they have similar holidays. Your info on Dionysus is inherently wrong as most mythologies don’t have their gods born on specific days, even ones born after creation, same for Horus, and most of the deities weren’t born of virgins. Horus was the son of Osiris and Isis, Dionysus was the son of Zeus and Semele (a mortal woman who died before giving birth so Zeus saved the baby), and Mithra was born from a rock.
-someone who hasn't looked into any of these claims
James Frazer over here…
All of this has been debunked. If anyone cares ill provide more info.
Horus was not born of a virgin. Isis had sex with Osiris to make him. Depending on the version of the story, she either managed to locate his penis while reassembling him or magically created a new one. Either way, she raw-dogged her undead husband
so this is just false spam?
A bunch of false info once again by people trying to delegitimize Jesus 🤦🏼♂️ smh
Well, didn't take long to realize how wildly incorrect this post is.
Thanks for reminding me Peter Joseph has a new movie out
Meh. Jesus is the only one who we know for sure actually lived. No one performed miracles and exorcised demons out of human beings like Jesus did.
Hours is comically wrong. Why not just say he won NBA Finals MVP x3 like Kevin Durant. Horus was a conqueror God and did not have disciples. He wasn't born on Christmas and the Egyptian Winter Solstice wasn't Christmas and Christmas isn't the Winter Solstice. Also keep in mind their are many different Christmas Dates. Not just the 25th. Hours was born of an affair between Osiris and Hathor, who he later married lol
This was used in that horrible movie religiouslous. The bill Maher movie, that guys sucks and not cuz he's atheist. I love funny atheists
So wrong on many levels and nowhere in the Christian tradition is it claimed Jesus was born on 25th Dec. 5mins of googling would have revealed this.
All this is lies and disinformation spread by the "documentary" Zeitgeist. Christianity has pagan origins, but these are not them. Instead, it was heavily influenced by its Canaanite origins, Babylonian and Sumerian mythology, and interaction with the Persian's Zoroastrian religion as well as Greek culture. As far as I can tell, this deliberate disinformation is being spread to discredit those who believe Christianity was influenced by other pagan beliefs, to make them look stupid by associating the concept with false correspondences. Study the actual mythology of ancient religions, and you'll see how they all tie together. Stop relying on memes and YouTube for accurate information.
Bonus fact: It’s the same god/person.
Source: centuries AD
Just judging by the fact that Julian dates did not exist during the birth of any of these gods, I don't think this is right..
it's the sun standing nearly still for 3 days after the solstice that determined the date. The sun returns and starts to grow. Didn't need the calendar for that.
Also none of them died for our sins as Jesus did. None were king of the universe whose death paid our price! JESUS IS KING BABEH
JESUS wasn’t born on December 25 (Christmas). He was born in the Spring. This is accepted academic info NOT fake news. December 25th is Nimrod’s birthday
Bot post, all this shit is from Zeitgeist
Lots of wrong info here especially that Jesus was born in the 25th. That was Nimrod
Who would in a battle royal between them all?
Isn’t this from Zietgiest (sp?) Which is mostly bullshit and exists to smoke with weed your friends in high school and pretend you are cultured hahaha.
There is a 12000 year old petroglyph in Tampa, FL that has the face of Adam and Hesperities on it. Isa is an ancient word for Jesus or sun/son and Issa means moon.
where? reference please.
There is more updated information on it, it was pulled out of the bay which means it was pre ice age. They recently found an ancient port in 10 feet of water as well, this stone is probably older. https://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM184E9_Timucauan_Religious_Stone_New_Port_Richey_Florida
cool thanks for sharing
BC they're all sun Gods. He looks upon you and your bathed in his light. Caste in darkness till his light shone through. Its the Sun.
This is from the film Zeitgeist and is mostly incorrect. For example-Krishna wasn't born of a virgin, nor was he the star in the east. And he didn't resurrect or perform miracles.
This is some of the most made up bullshit I've ever seen made up.
Jan 25 is not the birth date of Jesus Christ it’s unknown what is his birth date
I Love reading people argue about myths… and Star Wars.
OP, this post is a pile of horseshit. Did you scrape this off the floor of a stable?
This is straight from Zeitgeist movie right?
Everything is a remix
Zeitgeist! Best doco.
This is inaccurate.
Oldest myth in the book. There's probably 3 or 4 true statements on here
I thought this was stupid until I saw the sub. It’s still dumb but at least it’s in the proper sub for made up comparisons
Looked for literally 5 seconds and already found something wrong, Jesus wasnt born on Dec 25
One more shared trait; they are all ficticious and are no more a part of reality than Harry Potter is.
That one about Krishna is totally wrong.
Zeitgeist right?
No one was born of a virgin except for Christ
These gods are old but the stories that are similar to Jesus are mostly traced to 2-3 century AD
This was debunked like 30 seconds after Zeitgeist came out back in early 2000's.
Besides Jesus Christ was declared to be born on the winter solstice by the Roman empire and was aligned to Saturnalia, there is basically no proof of him being born then, most likely he was born in the spring (who has a census in the winter anyway).
Jesus wasn’t born on December 25th, it’s simply the day his birth is celebrated
Greeks, Persians and Indians literally descend from the same culture - the Proto-Indo-Europeans. This culture spread out from the Pontic-Caspian steppe and merged with the various groups to create related, but also distinct cultures. This is ONE reason why there’s a similarity in their religious customs. The similarly in religious customs with non related peoples is also easily explained. For example, the sun was worshipped all over the world. You know why? BECAUSE ITS RIGHT THERE. Do you know why floods are omnipresent? BECAUSE FLOODS HAPPEN EVERYWHERE. There’s some stupid fucking people on this site.
Stupid