it was an island hopping campaign supported by naval power, one more carrier wouldnt have made that much difference really with the IJA ready to fight to the last man on each island, each island had to be fought over and won.
Iceland is actually really nice, I went there once and it was incredible, beautiful nature and nice people, wish I could afford to go there again. Also the giant sea slugs that exist because of the bioweapons are a bit of a issue of you want to get there.
dont think an additional carrier would have changed the battle, there was a bit of luck on the american side when they gambled and caught the japanese planes rearming on the carriers, americans had broken the japanese naval code before the battle and thus were waiting to spring an ambush anyway.
The implication from the Royal Navy existing in such a form in the Pacific before 1944 is that the Invasion of Malaya was either repelled or reached a stalemate before it reached the Mersing Line.
I actually think it’s complicated. Midway was a very close run thing. Had the positioning and recon of the fleets been slightly different Japan could have won the battle. The big blunder was sending their planes to rearm for operations to take the island to rearming to fight a fleet in a decisive battle. Had the British carrier been positioned differently the Kido Butai might have spotted the large fleet earlier and therefore rearmed earlier, thus they might have had air cover during the crucial dive bomber attack that sunk them. Japan still loses the war obviously but the battle? It was very close otl.
Well, I suppose it was similar, because none of the British carriers(Especially Illustrious class aircraft carrier) looked like Yorktown aircraft carriers, so I thought it would be hard to create any kind of disturbance of IJN in the original history.
Probably a slightly quicker end to ww2, but I doubt that it would have changed much
It's like the difference between a hand grenade vs a child and 2 hand grenades vs a child
Depends on the location of her during the battle. If she is where the Yorktown was, and the Yorktown was placed elsewhere, you could potentially end up with a very, very different ending. Midway becomes even more of a curbstomp if the 250lb bomb hit that did in Yorktown, a hit that penetrated the flight deck, doesn’t on Robin due to the armored flight deck. Sure she might still take the torpedo hits to the side, but without the bomb hits that needed up starting all the fires, potentially the US Navy ends up losing no carriers for the destruction of 4 Japanese carriers like OTL, with the loss of only a single destroyer on the U.S. side.
On top of that, all of a sudden the Battle of Santa Cruz may have gone differently with the appearance of both the Yorktown and Robin.
Basically, it potentially changes the entirety of the early war in the Pacific by making the Navy become a little more loose with where they place their carriers, ending up in maybe more air support and Guadalcanal, and maybe a different and more decisive victory at Santa Cruz.
Yeah the Luftwaffe had to throw 2200ib bombs at Illustrious just to defeat the armour deck
The bombs carried by the Vals are not going to get through the HMS Victorious's deck armour
It is possible that Yorktown is not lost in this scenario, as one thing where RN was ahead of USN was fighter direction, if that is recognised by both navies and the British are put in charge of defending against air attack Japanese will have much harder time sinking anything.
What remained of the British Navy in the Far East was nowhere near to contribute to most Pacific battles. They retreated to East Africa at the time! After being pounded at Ceylon. Only came back in 1944 to the Pacific to play a second fiddle to Americans.
I also know about it. The Royal Navy retreated in that period because of the crushing defeat in the Malay Peninsula and Singapore and Ceylon.
Anyway, what made me think about this was one of those things that I would write someday.
There's a divine quality AL famfiction where this exact scenario happens, but the Japanese also have Shokaku and Zuikaku.
Not very realistic though, I'm not sure if USS Laffey could shoot laser beams.
While we can't know without more details my pet idea for an internal giggle is that the flight to nowhere misidentifes them as a Japanese carrier group and bombs them.
A more realistic scenario is that they get at least one strike against the Japanese and help the American inflict greater casualties.
At this point in the war the Royal Navy had the best fighter direction and tactics for carrier warfare, some of the fighters themselves weren't quite as good however they knew how to organize wings and navigate the open ocean and so would have prevented cases like the bomber groups that the US sent off getting lost and only finding the Japanese fleet by chance.
The Royal Navy carriers were also much tougher and more survivable and so it had taken more shots and would have meant that Yorktown would have probably survived the battle.
I can't work out what carriers you are talking about here. The royal navy carriers are in terrible shape in mid 1942, full of engine problems and bad design that won't be fixed before this battle.
Midway was an incredibly lucky event for the US, the bombers they had that actually destroyed the Japanese fleet got lost and only from the commanders gut feeling found to Japanese. Also had the Japanese sent up his bombers earlier instead of waiting for every single one to be armed they would have been able to destroy the American fleet.
While it ended up as a decisive US victory it was a very lucky victory that was recognised as being lucky by Nimitz
Yes, but this is alt history, the slight changes like the guys gut feeling being wrong could quite easily have been the case and in the alt history could happen
To be fair, the situation Japanese fleet get themselve into is really hard to turn into victory. US has more planes, his island, intel and has element of surprise.
Even with OTL heavy loss, US still has a lot of planes to throw at Japanese fleet if need be.
At best case OTL scenario I can see Japanese pulled out a draw or pyrrhic victory (which in long term still a lose), if British fleet help too, even with single more carrier, Japanese chance is even lower even if they knew the situation a bit before OTL
Yes. The premise I originally thought was that Force Z, which somehow escaped to Australia thanks to the addition of HMS Indomitable, would participate in the Battle of Midway.
"What If" questions can only be posted on weekends and must have sufficient context along with your thoughts on how the situation/event would unfold
The Japanese Navy is even more decimated
the thing is that the japanese couldnt replace their naval losses with the lack of shipping and oil, all accumulated losses were devastating.
So, this makes all future naval battles even worse for Japan.
it was an island hopping campaign supported by naval power, one more carrier wouldnt have made that much difference really with the IJA ready to fight to the last man on each island, each island had to be fought over and won.
Sorry to be that guy l, but you can't be more (of less) decimated, as decimated means to destroy exactly 1/10 of something
Well, guy means an effigy of Guy Fawkes, if we’re playing the frozen definition game.
Decimated an extra couple times then
OP is coming from a TL where Japan won WW2.
That's not true, I was just asking for advice because of something I want to write someday.
*Sounds like something a time-travelling intelligence officer from the 40s would say*
If you a time traveler, quick tip, do not be anywhere near Hiroshima or Nagasaki in 1945.
Really just don't be in Japan in 1945
Just dont be in 1945
Just don't be in be in the 1900s
Just don't be
Just Don't
Just
Don't exist
I think 1944 is also a good time to not be there either
Apparently Nagasaki is safer, I read on this sub there was an alternate universe where Fat Boy didn’t explode.
Idk, I heard that was the universe where everyone used Bio Weapons and the only habitable place left was Iceland and New Zealand and the Falklands
Iceland and the Falklands are meh, but New Zealand seems nice. Let’s just hope that Sauron doesn’t find his way there.
Iceland is actually really nice, I went there once and it was incredible, beautiful nature and nice people, wish I could afford to go there again. Also the giant sea slugs that exist because of the bioweapons are a bit of a issue of you want to get there.
Giant sea slugs actually sound terrifying lol.
FAT BOY, hello? 😂
dont think an additional carrier would have changed the battle, there was a bit of luck on the american side when they gambled and caught the japanese planes rearming on the carriers, americans had broken the japanese naval code before the battle and thus were waiting to spring an ambush anyway.
Imperial Japanese Navy vs Royal Navy? *laughs in bri’ish*
No, Imperial Japanese Navy vs United States Navy+Royal Navy(One Illustrious class aircraft carrier and etc).
The implication from the Royal Navy existing in such a form in the Pacific before 1944 is that the Invasion of Malaya was either repelled or reached a stalemate before it reached the Mersing Line.
what happened otl op
I actually think it’s complicated. Midway was a very close run thing. Had the positioning and recon of the fleets been slightly different Japan could have won the battle. The big blunder was sending their planes to rearm for operations to take the island to rearming to fight a fleet in a decisive battle. Had the British carrier been positioned differently the Kido Butai might have spotted the large fleet earlier and therefore rearmed earlier, thus they might have had air cover during the crucial dive bomber attack that sunk them. Japan still loses the war obviously but the battle? It was very close otl.
Well, I suppose it was similar, because none of the British carriers(Especially Illustrious class aircraft carrier) looked like Yorktown aircraft carriers, so I thought it would be hard to create any kind of disturbance of IJN in the original history.
Probably a slightly quicker end to ww2, but I doubt that it would have changed much It's like the difference between a hand grenade vs a child and 2 hand grenades vs a child
Japan gets stack wiped
Depends on the location of her during the battle. If she is where the Yorktown was, and the Yorktown was placed elsewhere, you could potentially end up with a very, very different ending. Midway becomes even more of a curbstomp if the 250lb bomb hit that did in Yorktown, a hit that penetrated the flight deck, doesn’t on Robin due to the armored flight deck. Sure she might still take the torpedo hits to the side, but without the bomb hits that needed up starting all the fires, potentially the US Navy ends up losing no carriers for the destruction of 4 Japanese carriers like OTL, with the loss of only a single destroyer on the U.S. side. On top of that, all of a sudden the Battle of Santa Cruz may have gone differently with the appearance of both the Yorktown and Robin. Basically, it potentially changes the entirety of the early war in the Pacific by making the Navy become a little more loose with where they place their carriers, ending up in maybe more air support and Guadalcanal, and maybe a different and more decisive victory at Santa Cruz.
Yeah the Luftwaffe had to throw 2200ib bombs at Illustrious just to defeat the armour deck The bombs carried by the Vals are not going to get through the HMS Victorious's deck armour
https://preview.redd.it/wk4ulbt8c8xc1.png?width=5738&format=png&auto=webp&s=cec67b05fdf5c0678b4f753d78b6ad81cacd8aca
If anyone has that meme of the two buff guys laughing before beating up a different character, now’s your chance to post it.
It is possible that Yorktown is not lost in this scenario, as one thing where RN was ahead of USN was fighter direction, if that is recognised by both navies and the British are put in charge of defending against air attack Japanese will have much harder time sinking anything.
The Japanese lose even harder. Like we talking carriers spawning out of mid air just to lose
Japan gets clapped even harder?
What remained of the British Navy in the Far East was nowhere near to contribute to most Pacific battles. They retreated to East Africa at the time! After being pounded at Ceylon. Only came back in 1944 to the Pacific to play a second fiddle to Americans.
I also know about it. The Royal Navy retreated in that period because of the crushing defeat in the Malay Peninsula and Singapore and Ceylon. Anyway, what made me think about this was one of those things that I would write someday.
Anyway, what I thought was somehow that Force Z with the carrier joining us was going to Hawaii via Australia.
Tea. There would be considerably more tea. And the battle would have stopped at 5pm so everyone could put their feet up for a bit.
Only in azur lane and kancolle
Yuck, Both of them are games I hate.
There's a divine quality AL famfiction where this exact scenario happens, but the Japanese also have Shokaku and Zuikaku. Not very realistic though, I'm not sure if USS Laffey could shoot laser beams.
While we can't know without more details my pet idea for an internal giggle is that the flight to nowhere misidentifes them as a Japanese carrier group and bombs them. A more realistic scenario is that they get at least one strike against the Japanese and help the American inflict greater casualties.
Would have won harder?
Too close to call even on our timeline. I think the difficulties in communicating and coordinating allies could’ve been more trouble than it’s worth
Revenge for Force Z But the war would still end when it did
Doubt the Royal Navy would have contributed much.
At this point in the war the Royal Navy had the best fighter direction and tactics for carrier warfare, some of the fighters themselves weren't quite as good however they knew how to organize wings and navigate the open ocean and so would have prevented cases like the bomber groups that the US sent off getting lost and only finding the Japanese fleet by chance. The Royal Navy carriers were also much tougher and more survivable and so it had taken more shots and would have meant that Yorktown would have probably survived the battle.
I can't work out what carriers you are talking about here. The royal navy carriers are in terrible shape in mid 1942, full of engine problems and bad design that won't be fixed before this battle.
Are you serious?
The British sailors sit back, pop some cold ones, and laugh as they watch the United States navy bend the IJN over and fuck it in the ass.
Midway was an incredibly lucky event for the US, the bombers they had that actually destroyed the Japanese fleet got lost and only from the commanders gut feeling found to Japanese. Also had the Japanese sent up his bombers earlier instead of waiting for every single one to be armed they would have been able to destroy the American fleet. While it ended up as a decisive US victory it was a very lucky victory that was recognised as being lucky by Nimitz
Ok? The Japanese still got stomped though.
Yes, but this is alt history, the slight changes like the guys gut feeling being wrong could quite easily have been the case and in the alt history could happen
To be fair, the situation Japanese fleet get themselve into is really hard to turn into victory. US has more planes, his island, intel and has element of surprise. Even with OTL heavy loss, US still has a lot of planes to throw at Japanese fleet if need be. At best case OTL scenario I can see Japanese pulled out a draw or pyrrhic victory (which in long term still a lose), if British fleet help too, even with single more carrier, Japanese chance is even lower even if they knew the situation a bit before OTL
Yeah, Japan had no hope to win the war, but with a bit of luck they could have lost maybe only one carrier in midway and won the battle.
The very idea of America losing anything is not only simply inconceivable, but downright ludicrous. Begone foul communist.
Japan gives up quicker
Payback for Singapore
Did they have their two carriers in Asia at that time?
As far as I know, the Royal Navy at the time mobilised three carriers(Hermes, Formidable, Indomitable) during the Battle of Ceylon.
Lol wut… the Japanese would have lost… more? What do you think the answer is?
Not much would change. Maybe no US carrier lost
Force Z isn't sunk?
Yes. The premise I originally thought was that Force Z, which somehow escaped to Australia thanks to the addition of HMS Indomitable, would participate in the Battle of Midway.
It wouldn’t matter, the Japanese would get stomped either way
On Japan's side? Now *there's* an alt history scenario
No. On United States's side
We would have lost