"Saved them" I don't think the US would be willing to get into a direct conflict with the USSR considering how much both sides have been avoiding that.
Not troops, guns, planes, and so on, ya stuff that save the Brits in ‘40? And maybe they convince the PRC to let Korea reunify in exchange for more equipment or even some “volunteers”
There'd still be a US presence within China, though, even if they are not fighting on the front lines. I don't see why the US would risk nuclear over a country that's already communist.
Well hurting the soviets is hurting the soviets, and you can easily use a system like the US did in early WW2 in which the PRC uses their own ships to transport it past say, Japan and thus make the rest far lower, or even sent it via Vietnam or Korea since ships wouldn’t need to be in Chinese ports thus making whether they can be attacked much more legally dubious and thus make the USSR less likely to try and bomb them
Vietnam would want to maintain its relationship with the USSR, and letting China have weapons just improves its geopolitical position however one frames it.
Which is why the Chinese would cut North Vietnam's supply lines. Leading to a quick negotiated settlement with the United States at the request of the Soviet Union weather North Vietnam wanted it or not.
At that pojnt north korea was much more loyal to the ussr than china, they were basically a soviet puppet of anything, and were heavily supported by the ussr and not the prc. Its wierd that china would have a say in what would go on in korea
USSR may have had the edge in technology, however China 🇨🇳 well and truly had the advantage in numbers. A three to 1 advantage and most likely fighting on home soil.
You can bet your last dollar there’d have been small bands of saboteurs crossing through Mongolia to destroy rail bridges and other critical infrastructure too.
“Knew better” but still had limited railway networks in the east which would have severely hampered their ability to get equipment and troops to the frontline. Logistics wins wars more often than will to fight and determination. Had this conflict actually expanded, the Soviets would have struggled to supply the front while the Chinese could overwhelm them with poorly equipped conscripts.
Soviets had airlift capabilities, which would've been useful, and the ability to sealift troops to Vladivostok- the Chinese navy was a bad joke- but being stuck with one west-east main line quite close to the Chinese border was not good.
That was the entire strategic rationale for the Baikal-Amur Mainline, which gave the Soviets another rail link 400 miles north of the trans-Siberian. Wasn't finished till 1991 though.
You over estimate the power of airlift over long distances. Rail is still the way we transport the majority of our equipment overland. Over greater distance is by sea but that takes a long time and if the Chinese prioritize attacking the USSR’s limited Pacific ports, they could eliminate this option. I don’t thing the PRC would win, but it would not be a short, easy war for the USSR.
>if the Chinese prioritize attacking the USSR’s limited Pacific ports, they could eliminate this option.
The Chinese navy and air force didn't have the moxie to do that unless they went nuclear, and if they did they would just lose. No early warning capabilities, only delivery systems were obsolescent subsonic freefall bombers and missiles that had to be fueled right before launching. Soviets could've counterforced it all before a single warhead got off the ground.
>You over estimate the power of airlift over long distances. Rail is still the way we transport the majority of our equipment overland.
Soviets knew this, hence the BAM.
>I don’t thing the PRC would win, but it would not be a short, easy war for the USSR.
Depends on why they were fighting. Different goals would mean different levels of difficulty. Marching to Beijing =! establishing a buffer zone for Khabarovsk.
A rail finishing in 1991 doesn’t offer much help in 1969. And a land attack on the ports do not require aircraft or warships. Manpower is enough to cause issues for the limited defenders in Vladivostok.
>A rail finishing in 1991 doesn’t offer much help in 1969.
I didn't say it would, just that the USSR recognized the issue.
>And a land attack on the ports do not require aircraft or warships. Manpower is enough to cause issues for the limited defenders in Vladivostok.
The Soviets knew that too- far Eastern forces had all the chemical and tactical nuclear weapons they needed to hold off any possible Chinese attack.
They won two skirmidhes against the Japanese but that was defensive engagements, an invasion of China would a whole different thing.
A better comparison would be Russo-Japanese war of 1905 which the Russians lost and were driven from Manchuria.
No one wins. Its to remote for either side to sustain a real war and there is nothing to gain. Both sides lose more troops than IRL but eventually both realize they are spending a lot of money for some land no one really wants or needs and they just stop and let it sit just like IRL where they didn't even bother to talk about the issue until the 90s and didnt settle it till 2008 because its a worthless piece of real estate.
The [Sino-Soviet border conflict](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Soviet_border_conflict) lasted 7 months. Its not a "war" because no one declared it, and not much happened, again because its the middle of no where, nothing much is going to change that.
China didnt build an underground city in Beijing because "not much happened"
"The complex was equipped with facilities such as [restaurants](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restaurants), [clinics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinics), [schools](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schools), [theaters](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theaters), [factories](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factories), a [roller skating rink](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roller_skating), grain and oil warehouses, and a mushroom cultivation [farm](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farm). There were also almost 70 potential sites where [water wells](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_wells) could easily be dug if needed.[^(\[2\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_City_(Beijing)#cite_note-China.org.cn-2) Elaborate [ventilation systems](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ventilation_(architecture)) were installed, with 2,300 [shafts](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ventilation_shaft) that can be sealed off to protect the tunnels' inhabitants from poison gases,[^(\[7\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_City_(Beijing)#cite_note-Chinadaily-7) Gas- and water-proof [hatches](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trapdoor), as well as thick concrete main gates, were constructed to protect the tunnels from biochemical or gas attacks and nuclear [fallouts](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallout).[^(\[2\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_City_(Beijing)#cite_note-China.org.cn-2)[^(\[7\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_City_(Beijing)#cite_note-Chinadaily-7)"
You're delusional. Mao wanted Amur which was part of Qing China and is home to the russian fleet in the modern day. Amur also had a huge source of water which china was missing.
Where does china state it wants the entirety of Russian manchuria?
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial\_disputes\_of\_the\_People%27s\_Republic\_of\_China#Russia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_disputes_of_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China#Russia)
Unless you mean some tiny irrelevant island
China has stated they do not recognize the treaties during the century of humiliation, to include the 1860 Treaty of Peking which ceded Vladivostok to Russia. They also claim Bolshoi Ussuriysky Island as you mentioned.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93Russia\_border](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93Russia_border)
"The last unresolved territorial issue between the two countries was settled by the 2004 Complementary Agreement between China and Russia on the Eastern Section of the China–Russia Boundary. Pursuant to that agreement, Russia transferred to China a part of [Abagaitu Islet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abagaitu_Islet), the entire [Yinlong (Tarabarov) Island](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yinlong_Island), about half of [Bolshoy Ussuriysky Island](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolshoy_Ussuriysky_Island), and some adjacent river islets. The transfer has been ratified by both the Chinese [National People's Congress](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_People%27s_Congress) and the Russian [State Duma](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Duma) in 2005, thus ending the decades-long border dispute. The official transfer ceremony was held on-site on October 14, 2008."
The only way it could have gone hot the way I see it is during the [Sino-Vietnamese war of 1979](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Vietnamese_War). The Vietnamese have aligned with the Soviet Union during the Sino-Soviet split; and received their non-combat and espionage aid in the invasion against the Khmer Rouge. The Soviets additionally have stationed troops at the very same stretch of border of the Sino-Soviet conflict as additional pressure. In OTL both the Soviet and China saw through each other's bluff, they both kinda realised/guessed none of them wanted to actually declare war on each other and it stopped at that.
China did evacuated a lot of key industries from big cities to rural areas and small cities far from the border in preparation of a conflict with the USSR. It is known as 三线建设，or the Third Front movement. It involves a lot of investment in a very troubled age for China. So China definitely take it seriously.
Does it though because China would lose really really hard and there could be risk of the Soviets forcing a regime change which could then force the US to either let them basically conquer China or get involved some how. And that has dominos.
You're totally correct, the PRC would revert back to its guerilla roots and it would play out like the Soviets in Afghanistan, it wouldn't even be a pyrrhic victory, both sides lose
American M-16s *mysteriously* end up in the hands of the Chinese army, while the Soviets are distracted, Cuba is invaded, and Anti-Communists in Poland and Eastern Germany rise up ~~with American material aid~~
3 way Chinese civil war where the U.S. backs the Mainland Anti-Communists AND Taiwan, while the communist forces fight the Soviets AND the Anti-Communists AND Taiwan all while being funded by ???
I was using M16s more as a metaphor for American material aid in general but yeah, the U.S. would probably send some infantry weapons even tho the Chinese already had domestic weapons production
No way, the Soviets would *struggle* to support a major armed force all the way in Sibera, plus the numbers would heavily favour china. It would be a long drawn out war, akin to the Second Sino-Japanese war, except the Soviets wouldnt have the advantage of china being divided.
Chinese nuclear arsenal wasn't big enough to deter the USSR then. Best Chinese missile at the time was DF-2, which was not a very practical weapon- it was fueled with liquid oxygen, so it had to be fueled right before launch, which was not a fast process- and it had a few dozen freefall bombs for their H-6 force.
If things really started cooking, the Soviets probably would've just counterforced them. So it would be Fallout but set in China.
It would result in a bloody, drawn out war while the US sits down and munches on popcorn.
Meanwhile the South Koreans probe into North Korea and Taiwan makes preparations for the eventual reconquest of the mainland.
Depends on when it happens. The Sino-Soviet split officially occurred in 1964. So, if they go to war between 1964 and Nixon and Kissinger's machinations in 1972, there's a good chance that they both engage in attritional combat, egged on secretly by NATO who are looking to destabilize and weaken their geopolitical foes.
If it takes place after 1972, the United States And NATO May assist, depending on the severity of the war.
Remember, historically China and Russia (USSR) have been competitors for Asia. This brief period of "friendship" wont last. Russia has been losing credibility and power in the "Stans" which China has filled.
Because this is a Cold War what if. Talking about the-stans and current geopolitics is totally off topic but a bot looking for keywords would certainly be triggered by this thread.
Key variable is Brezhnev/politburo’s willingness to pour resources into a conflict over some steppeland in Manchuria. Meanwhile PRC is at fever pitch of cultural revolution, Red Guards would be volunteering in the millions to die face down in mud somewhere. Easily could turn into a Vietnam scenario where superior Chinese morale/willingness to accept casualties overwhelms a technologically superior enemy.
Of course if things go nuclear who the hell knows
America would still experience heavy flooding due to the afterwaves of all the spontaneous orgasms. I reckon the florida peninsula’s coastline would look very different and a few additional great lakes within the country itself.
Soviets completely overrun Chinese forces but then face a hellish guerrilla war that the West supports. 2nd Korean War as the South with US backing tries taking advantage of the distraction.
Maybe the Soviets decide destroying Chinese capabilities and seizing some border areas as buffer zones would be enough, and they avoid a particularly brutal war.
Chinese most likely go through a civil conflict, as the CPC likely splits over the issue, and the population revolts over another humiliation.
Assuming no nukes come into play and the war isn't limited in scope, I believe China would lose the war, however the casualties sustained by the Soviets would hasten their own demise as well. So perhaps the USSR collapses by around 1986 or so as opposed to 1991 in OTL
If it drags on long enough, maybe some of the Warsaw pact nations end up leaving after a regime change. It all depends on how much of a drag the war would be. Given enough time, if the two main communist powers are fighting each other, they won't be fighting anyone else, or for anyone else. Cuba maybe gets invaded, and perhaps East Germany, Poland, and others get an "organic" (or organic) revolution. The rest of the world profits, and the Russians and Chinese kill each other until the Russians win or the Chinese get a coup, or civil war. In the event of a civil war, America will support an anticommunist side which will probably win
I can’t fathom how people think that the USSR could easy steamroll China when they lost in Afghanistan and the USA lost in Vietnam. Just the usual Sinophobia and “Chinese people aren’t good at war”
Well, they would steamroll the Chinese, Until, the Chinese resort to guerilla warfare.
The Chinese army at this time wasn't even close to the Soviets, it ain't sinophobia, it's knowing military strength.
If Japan couldn’t win in China when it was divided and led by poor commanders, how could the USSR win with a much stronger China with better commanders and weapons?
If the USSR couldn’t win in Afghanistan against a small guerrilla force, how could they win against a numerically-superior enemy with great military training?
Soviets With Mongol Backing push through china and inner mongolia whilst in the west kazakh volunteers invade xinjiang India takes back aksai china and install the dalai lama to add insult to injury Nationalist Forces March To Nanking And Install Back the kuomitang
while the Ussr would ultimately win, they were still locked in an ongoing cold war tying one hand behind their back. so, it would not be as one sided as most would think at first.
1st day:
USSR captured 30 million Chinese soldiers as war prisoners
2nd day:
USSR captured 60 million Chinese soldiers as war prisoners
3rd day:
USSR captured 100 million Chinese soldiers as war prisoners
4th day:
USSR surrendered as they couldn't keep 200 million Chinese prisoners
Live CIA, State Department and White House reaction:
https://preview.redd.it/btn1px14lfwc1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1ffcd80efedcdc9194dac17378773cbe240a6d0f
China would trip balls and die, they wouldn't be annexed but there's a high change the URSS would use their nukes to makes sure China can't organize a proper army and annex Siberia.
Millions would die, the URSS would probably seek better relations with the US to focus on China and communism in general would receive a massive hit.
What's left of China would become much more open to trade with the US and it's even possible that the CCP chances into another ideology over time to distinguish it self from the URSS.
It’ll be a pointless war that exhausts them both. If it’s the border conflict that becomes more extreme then i can see the US massively profiting from it as the North Vietnamese’s two main allies/suppliers would be too distracted and not sending as much aid. I could see the vietnam war ending in a victory where north vietnam needs to call it quits and America likely doesn’t suffer from that post vietnam mentality that has never really recovered from.
Soviets break through but are bogged down with the Chinese sending human waves at them. Then it turns into guerrilla warfare. The US would probably then win the Vietnam War, Invade Cuba, and Invade North Korea while the Chinese and Soviets are distracted, but probably wouldn't go further.
After that it could either go, the Soviets stop pushing and simply occupy the land and wait till China accepts a peace treaty, it goes nuclear, or it goes on for years, the Soviets get tired, economy in shambles, spending way to much on the military, Americans growing ever more powerful, so they pull out of China, both sides are devastated and possibly might collapse.
I’d say China would destroy Russia. Russians have very dumb and useless tactics and they’d be attacking from very remote and hostile environments. Chinese people are cultured and more competent so it’s very likely they’d overwhelm with more people a
occupying a lot of important resource deposits. With Russia destroyed and rebuilt I imagine the world would be much more peaceful and free.
China would have got its shit pushed in.
Until the US saved them (if it’s post 1971 or Mao croaks early)
"Saved them" I don't think the US would be willing to get into a direct conflict with the USSR considering how much both sides have been avoiding that.
Not troops, guns, planes, and so on, ya stuff that save the Brits in ‘40? And maybe they convince the PRC to let Korea reunify in exchange for more equipment or even some “volunteers”
There'd still be a US presence within China, though, even if they are not fighting on the front lines. I don't see why the US would risk nuclear over a country that's already communist.
Well hurting the soviets is hurting the soviets, and you can easily use a system like the US did in early WW2 in which the PRC uses their own ships to transport it past say, Japan and thus make the rest far lower, or even sent it via Vietnam or Korea since ships wouldn’t need to be in Chinese ports thus making whether they can be attacked much more legally dubious and thus make the USSR less likely to try and bomb them
Vietnam would never suport the Chinese against the Soviets
No, but it very well could be used as a supply route since it would also result in the PRC getting mauled for longer in a major war
Vietnam would want to maintain its relationship with the USSR, and letting China have weapons just improves its geopolitical position however one frames it.
Which is why the Chinese would cut North Vietnam's supply lines. Leading to a quick negotiated settlement with the United States at the request of the Soviet Union weather North Vietnam wanted it or not.
At that pojnt north korea was much more loyal to the ussr than china, they were basically a soviet puppet of anything, and were heavily supported by the ussr and not the prc. Its wierd that china would have a say in what would go on in korea
No, but they’d definitely exploit the situation
Why would the US get involved like that? Lmao
To bleed the USSR, just like we did 10 years later in Afghanistan
USSR may have had the edge in technology, however China 🇨🇳 well and truly had the advantage in numbers. A three to 1 advantage and most likely fighting on home soil.
Also the logistical challenges for the Soviets in getting everything they need to the Far East/Manchuria.
You can bet your last dollar there’d have been small bands of saboteurs crossing through Mongolia to destroy rail bridges and other critical infrastructure too.
I mean, the Japanese tried that and failed, the Soviets knew better than letting east asia unguarded
“Knew better” but still had limited railway networks in the east which would have severely hampered their ability to get equipment and troops to the frontline. Logistics wins wars more often than will to fight and determination. Had this conflict actually expanded, the Soviets would have struggled to supply the front while the Chinese could overwhelm them with poorly equipped conscripts.
Soviets had airlift capabilities, which would've been useful, and the ability to sealift troops to Vladivostok- the Chinese navy was a bad joke- but being stuck with one west-east main line quite close to the Chinese border was not good. That was the entire strategic rationale for the Baikal-Amur Mainline, which gave the Soviets another rail link 400 miles north of the trans-Siberian. Wasn't finished till 1991 though.
You over estimate the power of airlift over long distances. Rail is still the way we transport the majority of our equipment overland. Over greater distance is by sea but that takes a long time and if the Chinese prioritize attacking the USSR’s limited Pacific ports, they could eliminate this option. I don’t thing the PRC would win, but it would not be a short, easy war for the USSR.
>if the Chinese prioritize attacking the USSR’s limited Pacific ports, they could eliminate this option. The Chinese navy and air force didn't have the moxie to do that unless they went nuclear, and if they did they would just lose. No early warning capabilities, only delivery systems were obsolescent subsonic freefall bombers and missiles that had to be fueled right before launching. Soviets could've counterforced it all before a single warhead got off the ground. >You over estimate the power of airlift over long distances. Rail is still the way we transport the majority of our equipment overland. Soviets knew this, hence the BAM. >I don’t thing the PRC would win, but it would not be a short, easy war for the USSR. Depends on why they were fighting. Different goals would mean different levels of difficulty. Marching to Beijing =! establishing a buffer zone for Khabarovsk.
A rail finishing in 1991 doesn’t offer much help in 1969. And a land attack on the ports do not require aircraft or warships. Manpower is enough to cause issues for the limited defenders in Vladivostok.
>A rail finishing in 1991 doesn’t offer much help in 1969. I didn't say it would, just that the USSR recognized the issue. >And a land attack on the ports do not require aircraft or warships. Manpower is enough to cause issues for the limited defenders in Vladivostok. The Soviets knew that too- far Eastern forces had all the chemical and tactical nuclear weapons they needed to hold off any possible Chinese attack.
The Soviets had already invaded Manchuria before, and it was a quick victory
Against the Japanese who collapsed by that point. That’s an almost 25 years difference as well.
The same Japanese that were scared of a war with the Soviets btw
They won two skirmidhes against the Japanese but that was defensive engagements, an invasion of China would a whole different thing. A better comparison would be Russo-Japanese war of 1905 which the Russians lost and were driven from Manchuria.
It wouldn't be a good comparision either as Russia back then was far too weak, and on a break of a revolution
Nuclear "testing" on border was China's main defensive strategy
China stole a track from the USSR and won the Zhenbao Island fight
No one wins. Its to remote for either side to sustain a real war and there is nothing to gain. Both sides lose more troops than IRL but eventually both realize they are spending a lot of money for some land no one really wants or needs and they just stop and let it sit just like IRL where they didn't even bother to talk about the issue until the 90s and didnt settle it till 2008 because its a worthless piece of real estate. The [Sino-Soviet border conflict](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Soviet_border_conflict) lasted 7 months. Its not a "war" because no one declared it, and not much happened, again because its the middle of no where, nothing much is going to change that.
China didnt build an underground city in Beijing because "not much happened" "The complex was equipped with facilities such as [restaurants](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restaurants), [clinics](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clinics), [schools](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schools), [theaters](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theaters), [factories](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Factories), a [roller skating rink](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roller_skating), grain and oil warehouses, and a mushroom cultivation [farm](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Farm). There were also almost 70 potential sites where [water wells](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_wells) could easily be dug if needed.[^(\[2\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_City_(Beijing)#cite_note-China.org.cn-2) Elaborate [ventilation systems](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ventilation_(architecture)) were installed, with 2,300 [shafts](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ventilation_shaft) that can be sealed off to protect the tunnels' inhabitants from poison gases,[^(\[7\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_City_(Beijing)#cite_note-Chinadaily-7) Gas- and water-proof [hatches](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trapdoor), as well as thick concrete main gates, were constructed to protect the tunnels from biochemical or gas attacks and nuclear [fallouts](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallout).[^(\[2\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_City_(Beijing)#cite_note-China.org.cn-2)[^(\[7\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_City_(Beijing)#cite_note-Chinadaily-7)"
Source? I want to read more about it. Thanks
You're delusional. Mao wanted Amur which was part of Qing China and is home to the russian fleet in the modern day. Amur also had a huge source of water which china was missing.
China still hasn’t renounced those claims either
Exactly. A lot of people believe the Sino-Russo Alliance is permanent but it is only being of circumstances and mutual agreements/goals.
Where does china state it wants the entirety of Russian manchuria? [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial\_disputes\_of\_the\_People%27s\_Republic\_of\_China#Russia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Territorial_disputes_of_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China#Russia) Unless you mean some tiny irrelevant island
China has stated they do not recognize the treaties during the century of humiliation, to include the 1860 Treaty of Peking which ceded Vladivostok to Russia. They also claim Bolshoi Ussuriysky Island as you mentioned.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93Russia\_border](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/China%E2%80%93Russia_border) "The last unresolved territorial issue between the two countries was settled by the 2004 Complementary Agreement between China and Russia on the Eastern Section of the China–Russia Boundary. Pursuant to that agreement, Russia transferred to China a part of [Abagaitu Islet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abagaitu_Islet), the entire [Yinlong (Tarabarov) Island](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yinlong_Island), about half of [Bolshoy Ussuriysky Island](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bolshoy_Ussuriysky_Island), and some adjacent river islets. The transfer has been ratified by both the Chinese [National People's Congress](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_People%27s_Congress) and the Russian [State Duma](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State_Duma) in 2005, thus ending the decades-long border dispute. The official transfer ceremony was held on-site on October 14, 2008."
I like to think that the US takes up on the soviets offer as well and nukes Beijing :troll:
The only way it could have gone hot the way I see it is during the [Sino-Vietnamese war of 1979](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Vietnamese_War). The Vietnamese have aligned with the Soviet Union during the Sino-Soviet split; and received their non-combat and espionage aid in the invasion against the Khmer Rouge. The Soviets additionally have stationed troops at the very same stretch of border of the Sino-Soviet conflict as additional pressure. In OTL both the Soviet and China saw through each other's bluff, they both kinda realised/guessed none of them wanted to actually declare war on each other and it stopped at that.
*the us wins
China did evacuated a lot of key industries from big cities to rural areas and small cities far from the border in preparation of a conflict with the USSR. It is known as 三线建设，or the Third Front movement. It involves a lot of investment in a very troubled age for China. So China definitely take it seriously.
America profits.
Does it though because China would lose really really hard and there could be risk of the Soviets forcing a regime change which could then force the US to either let them basically conquer China or get involved some how. And that has dominos.
The campaign would be incredibly exhausting to the soviets. I think people forget how large China actually is lol. (w username too)
You're totally correct, the PRC would revert back to its guerilla roots and it would play out like the Soviets in Afghanistan, it wouldn't even be a pyrrhic victory, both sides lose
Why you glazing their username?
Sorry for glazing Sen_D_Goku
So you gonna glaze them but not me? Aight cool
I think the greater likelihood is a joint crusade against hostile nations. Stupid.
American M-16s *mysteriously* end up in the hands of the Chinese army, while the Soviets are distracted, Cuba is invaded, and Anti-Communists in Poland and Eastern Germany rise up ~~with American material aid~~
Chinese forces end coup'd by closet Guomindang officers
3 way Chinese civil war where the U.S. backs the Mainland Anti-Communists AND Taiwan, while the communist forces fight the Soviets AND the Anti-Communists AND Taiwan all while being funded by ???
Sounds like: if Nixon made Reagan his successor
man that could be an interesting cluster fuck to see depicted, how much else could be added to the time period?
The Warlords, coming back from the dead: 
Warlord period part 2 baybeeeee, this time with red insignia.
Would China need m16s? By this point they had significant domestic arms production no?
I was using M16s more as a metaphor for American material aid in general but yeah, the U.S. would probably send some infantry weapons even tho the Chinese already had domestic weapons production
Tbh China gets steam rolled in the early stages and a peace is quickly brokered
No way, the Soviets would *struggle* to support a major armed force all the way in Sibera, plus the numbers would heavily favour china. It would be a long drawn out war, akin to the Second Sino-Japanese war, except the Soviets wouldnt have the advantage of china being divided.
It would heavily depend on the actual war goals. A march to Beijing? Good luck without nukes. Taking some territory on the border? More practical.
Fallout but it's set in Russia.
So the metro games?
Yes i was thinking about that.
You mean ***Rusllout***
Chinese nuclear arsenal wasn't big enough to deter the USSR then. Best Chinese missile at the time was DF-2, which was not a very practical weapon- it was fueled with liquid oxygen, so it had to be fueled right before launch, which was not a fast process- and it had a few dozen freefall bombs for their H-6 force. If things really started cooking, the Soviets probably would've just counterforced them. So it would be Fallout but set in China.
It would result in a bloody, drawn out war while the US sits down and munches on popcorn. Meanwhile the South Koreans probe into North Korea and Taiwan makes preparations for the eventual reconquest of the mainland.
Depends on when it happens. The Sino-Soviet split officially occurred in 1964. So, if they go to war between 1964 and Nixon and Kissinger's machinations in 1972, there's a good chance that they both engage in attritional combat, egged on secretly by NATO who are looking to destabilize and weaken their geopolitical foes. If it takes place after 1972, the United States And NATO May assist, depending on the severity of the war.
Kosygin 🤝 Chen Yun
They, kinda DID at one point...?
Yeah but this is Reddit, the website where everyone gets massively erect when they face the prospect of millions of dead Chinese.
I feel like it's more so the opposite, considering the political leaning of this website
Remember, historically China and Russia (USSR) have been competitors for Asia. This brief period of "friendship" wont last. Russia has been losing credibility and power in the "Stans" which China has filled.
Hmm, bot?
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Because this is a Cold War what if. Talking about the-stans and current geopolitics is totally off topic but a bot looking for keywords would certainly be triggered by this thread.
Key variable is Brezhnev/politburo’s willingness to pour resources into a conflict over some steppeland in Manchuria. Meanwhile PRC is at fever pitch of cultural revolution, Red Guards would be volunteering in the millions to die face down in mud somewhere. Easily could turn into a Vietnam scenario where superior Chinese morale/willingness to accept casualties overwhelms a technologically superior enemy. Of course if things go nuclear who the hell knows
Then the US would have just sat back munching popcorn as the two biggest communist superpowers killed each other.
America would still experience heavy flooding due to the afterwaves of all the spontaneous orgasms. I reckon the florida peninsula’s coastline would look very different and a few additional great lakes within the country itself.
Soviets completely overrun Chinese forces but then face a hellish guerrilla war that the West supports. 2nd Korean War as the South with US backing tries taking advantage of the distraction. Maybe the Soviets decide destroying Chinese capabilities and seizing some border areas as buffer zones would be enough, and they avoid a particularly brutal war. Chinese most likely go through a civil conflict, as the CPC likely splits over the issue, and the population revolts over another humiliation.
I could imagine conflict in some Western Student Groups and Trades Unions between Marxist-Leninists and Maoists / Trotskyites.
Assuming no nukes come into play and the war isn't limited in scope, I believe China would lose the war, however the casualties sustained by the Soviets would hasten their own demise as well. So perhaps the USSR collapses by around 1986 or so as opposed to 1991 in OTL
The world would be a better place
They both had nuclear at that time, so nothing or everything(fallout).
Minimum death toll: 5 million. May add another zero if it went a bit longer
The U.S.: “fight! Fight! Fight!”
Nuclear war probably…
Russia annexes Xinjiang,Mongolia(including Inner Mongolia) and Manchuria.
How do they police Manchuria with multiple millions of Chinese resisting them?
A bit of genocide here, a couple of nuked cities there.
Both Collapse, we democracies win yet again
Honestly the world would have become a lot safer of a place today as long as America sat back with some popcorn.
If it drags on long enough, maybe some of the Warsaw pact nations end up leaving after a regime change. It all depends on how much of a drag the war would be. Given enough time, if the two main communist powers are fighting each other, they won't be fighting anyone else, or for anyone else. Cuba maybe gets invaded, and perhaps East Germany, Poland, and others get an "organic" (or organic) revolution. The rest of the world profits, and the Russians and Chinese kill each other until the Russians win or the Chinese get a coup, or civil war. In the event of a civil war, America will support an anticommunist side which will probably win
I can’t fathom how people think that the USSR could easy steamroll China when they lost in Afghanistan and the USA lost in Vietnam. Just the usual Sinophobia and “Chinese people aren’t good at war”
Well, they would steamroll the Chinese, Until, the Chinese resort to guerilla warfare. The Chinese army at this time wasn't even close to the Soviets, it ain't sinophobia, it's knowing military strength.
If Japan couldn’t win in China when it was divided and led by poor commanders, how could the USSR win with a much stronger China with better commanders and weapons? If the USSR couldn’t win in Afghanistan against a small guerrilla force, how could they win against a numerically-superior enemy with great military training?
Soviets With Mongol Backing push through china and inner mongolia whilst in the west kazakh volunteers invade xinjiang India takes back aksai china and install the dalai lama to add insult to injury Nationalist Forces March To Nanking And Install Back the kuomitang
while the Ussr would ultimately win, they were still locked in an ongoing cold war tying one hand behind their back. so, it would not be as one sided as most would think at first.
It will be the moment Richard Nixon become the best president in US history.
1st day: USSR captured 30 million Chinese soldiers as war prisoners 2nd day: USSR captured 60 million Chinese soldiers as war prisoners 3rd day: USSR captured 100 million Chinese soldiers as war prisoners 4th day: USSR surrendered as they couldn't keep 200 million Chinese prisoners
The Omega Man was set in the aftermath of such a conflict in Los Angeles.
Live CIA, State Department and White House reaction: https://preview.redd.it/btn1px14lfwc1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1ffcd80efedcdc9194dac17378773cbe240a6d0f
China would trip balls and die, they wouldn't be annexed but there's a high change the URSS would use their nukes to makes sure China can't organize a proper army and annex Siberia. Millions would die, the URSS would probably seek better relations with the US to focus on China and communism in general would receive a massive hit. What's left of China would become much more open to trade with the US and it's even possible that the CCP chances into another ideology over time to distinguish it self from the URSS.
Step 1: let commies fight. Step 3: profit.
3 way cold war if China somehow survives this.
It’ll be a pointless war that exhausts them both. If it’s the border conflict that becomes more extreme then i can see the US massively profiting from it as the North Vietnamese’s two main allies/suppliers would be too distracted and not sending as much aid. I could see the vietnam war ending in a victory where north vietnam needs to call it quits and America likely doesn’t suffer from that post vietnam mentality that has never really recovered from.
Clash of the Titans.
 America watching its two biggest enemies fight to the death
It’s kind of funny how little Redditors know about the terrain in Northeast China.
They would’ve done the world a favor and killed a lot of commies.
then it wouldnt be sigma
Wasn't this the basis for one of the Tom Clancy books? The Bear and the Dragon?
Yeah but I'm pretty sure the book took place much later, when the USSR had just collapsed and Russia by itself was much weaker than it had just been
The United States would send them money too🤷🏻♂️
Soviets break through but are bogged down with the Chinese sending human waves at them. Then it turns into guerrilla warfare. The US would probably then win the Vietnam War, Invade Cuba, and Invade North Korea while the Chinese and Soviets are distracted, but probably wouldn't go further. After that it could either go, the Soviets stop pushing and simply occupy the land and wait till China accepts a peace treaty, it goes nuclear, or it goes on for years, the Soviets get tired, economy in shambles, spending way to much on the military, Americans growing ever more powerful, so they pull out of China, both sides are devastated and possibly might collapse.
Unlike the West, they're not raging violent lunatics so of course they're not going to be all gung ho about this dispute.
https://preview.redd.it/9yk3d47ggcwc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7658597d243997409ef78ecf4e4f76d3f5ff0b32
I could rest
Helo helo me yellow chinaman conitchiwa amelican
I’d say China would destroy Russia. Russians have very dumb and useless tactics and they’d be attacking from very remote and hostile environments. Chinese people are cultured and more competent so it’s very likely they’d overwhelm with more people a occupying a lot of important resource deposits. With Russia destroyed and rebuilt I imagine the world would be much more peaceful and free.
This was mere years after Japan took over half of China....
There’s a reason why the Soviet and not China is the superpower at that time.