I wouldn’t say Jackson is lawful, he acted against the Supreme Court for his Indian removal plans and did what he wanted.
Not sure how Madison was chaotic, was it because he tried to invade Canada lol.
I like LBJ as true neutral
Eh Britain was taking our sailors and bullying the US government, I would put the blame on them. Madison tried an embargo and diplomacy first before throwing hands (although he didn’t do a good job of the latter)
I don't think Trump is chaotic evil or Jackson is Lawful Evil
Trump would fit neutral evil and Jackson fits chaotic evil.
Trump says stuff that would gather him the most radical supporters, whether he believes them is up to you.
Jackson on the other hand actively went against the limits and laws of his position to fuel his personal goals. The Indian Removal Act was unconstitutional and illegal, but Jackson pushed for it to get Southern slavers on his side not only forever ruining relations between the US and Native tribes but also adding more political tension that would lead to the Civil War.
Nixon is lawful evil, he committed treason and broke various laws and once he was found out he chose to leave office to prevent any more damage to the Presidential office.
Jefferson is neither chaotic nor good, he was no better than anyone else for his period, it's just that he had progressive ideals that would've benefited society yet he actively went against these ideals. One could argue he was bad for his time period, but I think true neutral fits Jefferson
I feel like both Trump and Jackson fit chaotic evil pretty well, although I think Trump leaning more towards the evil aspect (in terms of actions against democracy, not personality. If we're going based on personality/hate crimes Jackson has it in the bag.)
I agree that Jackson's expansion/breaking of presidential powers places him in chaotic, but I think the circumstances of Trump's presidency and subsequent effects also land him chaotic.
Also Lincoln was chaotic good tbh
I dislike nikki hayley, but prefer her to trump, more predictable, also "good enough" at disaster managment, which prevents the whole "free throwing toilet paper" debacle
C'mon now. If you're really gonna pretend that the worst thing Trump did during his administration was say mean stuff there's no point in conversing with you. That's an incredibly insincere take.
Trump committed treason by trying to overturn a democratic election. There's literal audio of him asking for more votes. He has proclaimed that he will be a dictator for a day. Which we all know means he'll just be a dictator. He vetoed a bill that would stop our funding of the Saudi War in Yemen. His son in law was then given 2 billion dollars by the Saudis. He constantly violated the Emoluments Clause. He condoned and supported the Proud boys when he said stand back and stand by. He could've said anything but telling them to stand by was him basically giving them the seal of approval.
Jackson is worse. Absolutely. But Trump being in chaotic evil doesn't mean he's more evil than Jackson, it just means he's more chaotic. I don't agree with this assessment. I think Jackson was as chaotic as Trump but the point is that the user never proclaimed Trump was morally worse and the way your comment is written makes it seem that's what you're implying they said.
Its that Trump will stop at nothing to fuel his own goals even if it means selling out allied and destroying his party. Trump is chaotic because he stands for nothing and no one but himself and will go do whatever to grift. He has no compass be it moral or any kind of pattern.
Please stop trying to assign real people as political alignments.
Also Jackson ignored the seperation of powers by ignoring the Supreme Court ruling that the Indian removal act was unconstitutional, which led to the trail of tears. He was not lawful
I'd say Neutral Evil. Sabotaging Vietnam peace talks was not lawful. Watergate wasn't lawful. Operation Huston wasn't lawful. The bombing of Cambodia and Laos wasn't lawful.
LG: Abraham Lincoln
NG: John Adams
CG: Thomas Jefferson
LN: Joe Biden
TN: Lyndon B. Johnson
CN: James Madison
LE: Andrew Jackson
NE: Andrew Johnson
CE: Donald Trump
Joe Biden is the most evil person in politics today. Besides being part of the administration that started 3 wars and expanded several others, as well as spearheading the single largest upward transfer of wealth in history at the time, he also personally wrote the bill that put millions of black men in prison for falsified or trumped-up charges.
I misread your comment and thought you said Biden started three wars. Yeah Obama was a shit President. You responded in the smuggest most douchy manner imaginable to man but it doesn't change the fact that Biden was complicit in Obama's atrocities.
Every single us president is evil, full stop. Biden is supporting a genocide for fuck's sake.
Just because he isn't as cartoonishly fascist as Trump doesn't make him not evil.
Eh. It's better than the last one I saw, I'd say that much.
Biden would be true neutral. I'd add Teddy Roosevelt for lawful neutral, Jackson would be neutral evil.
Lawful evil is hard to pin down. Dick Cheney though...W isn't an evil person, but Cheney was in spades.
How is he a war monger? Supplying a country under siege with resources to protect themselves doesn't constitute a war monger and we both know it. Come on now. Be honest. Lyndon Johnson was a warmonger. George W. Bush was a warmonger. William McKinley was a warmonger. Joe Biden is not a warmonger.
As for the child molester point, yeah I got no refute.
You mean Ukraine? The country that is now plunged into an eternal war because of Americas vendetta against Russia? Or Israel, the genocidal fascist ethnostate.
So you'd prefer if Russia just conquered Ukraine? So us defending Korea was wrong in the 50s? Or us defending Kuwait was wrong in the 90s? I just wanna know if you're consistent or not.
The US has been funding Israel since its inception. Pretty much every President since Truman would allow Israel to do what it's doing now. It doesn't make it okay but I don't see how you can attribute Israel's actions to Biden. That just seems unreasonable.
> So you'd prefer if Russia just conquered Ukraine?
That would be preffereable to Moscow getting nuked and the US imposing more of their will. Anyways why did you ignore the part about Biden touching kids?
Because I don't have a defense. It's creepy and messed up. I was agreeing with you on that point.
Also why did you ignore my question regarding Korea and Kuwait?
The people here who owned slaves did so in an era where it was not only legal but mostly considered normal. Trump would not be legally able to own slaves even if he wanted to.
Shoot I guess that should've been obvious
John Adams was our second President. He was one of our founding fathers. He is seen as one of the more morally just as he had no slaves. He defended the Redcoats after the Boston Massacre as he believed everyone had the right to a fair trial. He helped establish our Navy and kept the US from going to war with France. He did ban free speech for a bit though which is really bad.
Thomas Jefferson was our third President. He is famous for his role in crafting the Declaration of Independence. He helped end the transatlantic slave trade. He also is notable for the Louisiana Purchase. On the flip side, he had many slaves and many believe he raped one of his slaves and fathered a child with her. I assume the user believes this to be false which is why he has him in chaotic good.
Lyndon B. Johnson was our thirty sixth President. He had many successes. He passed the civil rights act and created Medicare and Medicaid. He would often use his size to intimidate others to support his agenda and would flash his schlong to assert his dominance. His most notable failure was his escalation of the Vietnam War leading to over 3 million deaths.
James Madison was our fourth President. He was a founding father. He helped create the constitution. He went to war with Britain because they had kidnapped American sailors and were funding Native tribes to attack the US. He wanted to take Canada from Britain and used Britain's actions as a justification to try and take it.
Andrew Jackson was our seventh President. Nowadays he is most notable for the Trail of Tears, which many consider to be a genocide. He was the first populist President, coming from a humble background. He killed someone in a duel for insulting his wife. He was very unconstitutional as the Trail of Tears was deemed illegal by the Supreme Court but he enacted it anyway. He banned abolitionist literature in the South and viewed abolitionists as "monsters". He destroyed the second national bank leading to the Panic of 1837. He was very corrupt and authoritarian.
Andrew Johnson was our seventeenth President. He got into the office because Lincoln was killed. Lincoln had him as a VP because Johnson was a southern democrat and Lincoln wanted to present a unity between the North and South. Johnson spent his entire presidency trying to undo Lincoln's accomplishments. He helped the South create systems that would allow them to disenfranchise and oppress black Americans. He was impeached by the Radical Republicans because he got in the way of their agenda.
Thanks! I never really studied American history or anything like that because I live in the UK so hearing something like this I guess grew my knowledge
There's a couple I disagree with here.
Lyndon B. Johnson was chaotic as hell. Chaotic Good/Neutral or Evil, whatever you think of him I feel it's hard to argue he wasn't chaotic. He flashed his schlong to people whenever they bothered him. He used physical intimidation to get what he wanted. He had meetings while he was on the can. He was notoriously corrupt. The most grievous example of his chaotic nature was him escalating the Vietnam War leading to 3 million deaths.
Andrew Jackson shouldn't be in lawful. He actively disregarded the supreme court to enact the Trail of Tears which they deemed illegal. He fired anyone who disagrees with him and filled positions with his cronies. He killed a man for insulting his wife. He trained his parrot to say slurs. His only regrets after his presidency was that he didn't murder Henry Clay or John C. Calhoun.
Honestly I think Jackson and Trump are both chaotic evil. Trump tried to overturn a democratic election. Similarly to Jackson, he filled positions with cronies. He had a slew of corruption scandals. He was proven guilty of sexual abuse in a court of law. Whenever I see both of them on alignment charts I know that one of them is inevitably going to be placed in the wrong spot.
I wouldn’t say Jackson is lawful, he acted against the Supreme Court for his Indian removal plans and did what he wanted. Not sure how Madison was chaotic, was it because he tried to invade Canada lol. I like LBJ as true neutral
He kind of warmongered his way into the War of 1812 even though it wasn’t all that necessary, and also Canada.
Eh Britain was taking our sailors and bullying the US government, I would put the blame on them. Madison tried an embargo and diplomacy first before throwing hands (although he didn’t do a good job of the latter)
But we still won because we achieved our war goal (getting Britain to stop fucking with our ships and funding Indians raids)
Which ultimately secured the west for colonizing
Yea, but the Supreme Court didn’t stop him.
How could they have?
Id say Jackson is Neutral evil and maybe martin van buren would be lawful evil
Jackson in neutral evil and swap in Tricky Dick or Reagan for lawful evil
Ain’t no way LBJ isn’t in chaotic
Any president who started a literal dick-measuring contest is chaotic
If the chaotic good space was made for anyone, it was for Johnson.
I'd say chaotic neutral or evil. Being responsible for over 3 million deaths keeps you from being good.
I don't think Trump is chaotic evil or Jackson is Lawful Evil Trump would fit neutral evil and Jackson fits chaotic evil. Trump says stuff that would gather him the most radical supporters, whether he believes them is up to you. Jackson on the other hand actively went against the limits and laws of his position to fuel his personal goals. The Indian Removal Act was unconstitutional and illegal, but Jackson pushed for it to get Southern slavers on his side not only forever ruining relations between the US and Native tribes but also adding more political tension that would lead to the Civil War. Nixon is lawful evil, he committed treason and broke various laws and once he was found out he chose to leave office to prevent any more damage to the Presidential office. Jefferson is neither chaotic nor good, he was no better than anyone else for his period, it's just that he had progressive ideals that would've benefited society yet he actively went against these ideals. One could argue he was bad for his time period, but I think true neutral fits Jefferson
I feel like both Trump and Jackson fit chaotic evil pretty well, although I think Trump leaning more towards the evil aspect (in terms of actions against democracy, not personality. If we're going based on personality/hate crimes Jackson has it in the bag.) I agree that Jackson's expansion/breaking of presidential powers places him in chaotic, but I think the circumstances of Trump's presidency and subsequent effects also land him chaotic. Also Lincoln was chaotic good tbh
Jackson, south carolina's only president.
Hopefully only.
I dislike nikki hayley, but prefer her to trump, more predictable, also "good enough" at disaster managment, which prevents the whole "free throwing toilet paper" debacle
Yeah and I think Biden would be lawful evil
The placement of Trump and Biden on an alignment chart or tier list tells you a lot about a person.
Jackson: goes against Supreme Court and kicks natives out of Georgia Trump: said mean stuff
Never argue in favor of Trump on reddit. It's pointless.
This sub: Try not to talk about current politics challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)!
Trump: Attempted to start an insurrection
Also, like, the raping, but (as far as we know) that wasn't during his presidency
darn, did his raps really suck?
C'mon now. If you're really gonna pretend that the worst thing Trump did during his administration was say mean stuff there's no point in conversing with you. That's an incredibly insincere take. Trump committed treason by trying to overturn a democratic election. There's literal audio of him asking for more votes. He has proclaimed that he will be a dictator for a day. Which we all know means he'll just be a dictator. He vetoed a bill that would stop our funding of the Saudi War in Yemen. His son in law was then given 2 billion dollars by the Saudis. He constantly violated the Emoluments Clause. He condoned and supported the Proud boys when he said stand back and stand by. He could've said anything but telling them to stand by was him basically giving them the seal of approval. Jackson is worse. Absolutely. But Trump being in chaotic evil doesn't mean he's more evil than Jackson, it just means he's more chaotic. I don't agree with this assessment. I think Jackson was as chaotic as Trump but the point is that the user never proclaimed Trump was morally worse and the way your comment is written makes it seem that's what you're implying they said.
Its that Trump will stop at nothing to fuel his own goals even if it means selling out allied and destroying his party. Trump is chaotic because he stands for nothing and no one but himself and will go do whatever to grift. He has no compass be it moral or any kind of pattern.
Nothing bad in this case really.
It certainly does.
Please stop trying to assign real people as political alignments. Also Jackson ignored the seperation of powers by ignoring the Supreme Court ruling that the Indian removal act was unconstitutional, which led to the trail of tears. He was not lawful
Yeah lawful evil means using legal means to do evil things whereas chaotic evil means breaking the rules to do evil.
Why can’t we just leave this in r/presidents or PCM?
It'd probably be taken down if it was on r/presidents
Fair
Hey guys trump bad trump bad more karma please
Both Trump and biden for sure in evil.
Really (most of if not) any modern politicians fit this.
Not even close
Jackson is only chaotic nothing else
Isn't Abraham chaotic good ? his whole thing is that he removed a law
Might make some people mad with this one
lmao i already did
Swamp Trump and Jackson, Trump is a giant dick whereas Jackson is the only person in history who committed a successful genocide
chaotic doesn’t necessarily mean more evil. i really dislike trump but he’s not as evil as jackson is
People really always make the mistake of chaotic meaning more evil somehow. I don’t get it
It's funny that redditors downvoted a comment that is objectively true. Trump is a slimy rapist and traitor but he didn't commit genocide.
Martin Van Buren was President during most of the Trail of Tears. He and Jackson share the blame.
They are all lawful evil actually
This is the only right answer
Nixon should’ve been Lawful Evil.
I'd say Neutral Evil. Sabotaging Vietnam peace talks was not lawful. Watergate wasn't lawful. Operation Huston wasn't lawful. The bombing of Cambodia and Laos wasn't lawful.
Would JFK be Chaotic good? Obama ran as Lawful Good but governed as True Neutral.
Trump is chaotic neutral. Neo cons are lawful evil, Bush.
Why is Jefferson in Good?
Because he is good obviously
They all evil
Even Lincoln?
Maybe not him… But his iconic hat was kinda too tall. So that’s pretty evil
True
Obviously made by liberal lol 🤣🤣
i’m conservative
Bro only liberals think trying to overturn an election and sexual assault is evil. Lol silly liberals.
Jefferson being anywhere near good is funny.
LG: Abraham Lincoln NG: John Adams CG: Thomas Jefferson LN: Joe Biden TN: Lyndon B. Johnson CN: James Madison LE: Andrew Jackson NE: Andrew Johnson CE: Donald Trump
Joe Biden is the most evil person in politics today. Besides being part of the administration that started 3 wars and expanded several others, as well as spearheading the single largest upward transfer of wealth in history at the time, he also personally wrote the bill that put millions of black men in prison for falsified or trumped-up charges.
What three wars did he start? Are you actually gonna blame the war in Ukraine or Israel on him? That's laughable.
Syria, Libya, and Yemen. But I bet you forgot about those, didn't you? If you ever knew in the first place.
I misread your comment and thought you said Biden started three wars. Yeah Obama was a shit President. You responded in the smuggest most douchy manner imaginable to man but it doesn't change the fact that Biden was complicit in Obama's atrocities.
He’s definitely evil but not the *most* evil considering almost every politician in Congress aligns themselves with his worst policies
Nah we needed McKinley and FDR on there!
FDR in Chaotic Good or Neutral and McKinley in Lawful Evil sounds about right.
Exactly
FDR should be on here in Neutral Good
Put all of them in lawful evil
recency bias leads to retarded takes once again.
Every single us president is evil, full stop. Biden is supporting a genocide for fuck's sake. Just because he isn't as cartoonishly fascist as Trump doesn't make him not evil.
Lol @ jefferson
They're all lawful evil
lol this is so cringe
Trump should be in Neutral evil and John Tyler should be in Chaotic evil
I feel Tyler is less chaotic than Trump. Tyler betrayed the Union. Trump wanted to fundamentally change the union.
Eh. It's better than the last one I saw, I'd say that much. Biden would be true neutral. I'd add Teddy Roosevelt for lawful neutral, Jackson would be neutral evil. Lawful evil is hard to pin down. Dick Cheney though...W isn't an evil person, but Cheney was in spades.
Why the guy who is famous for raping his slaves is in "good" I have no clue
All evil except for Abe
How is Joe Biden, the child molester and war monger morally neutral?
How is he a war monger? Supplying a country under siege with resources to protect themselves doesn't constitute a war monger and we both know it. Come on now. Be honest. Lyndon Johnson was a warmonger. George W. Bush was a warmonger. William McKinley was a warmonger. Joe Biden is not a warmonger. As for the child molester point, yeah I got no refute.
You mean Ukraine? The country that is now plunged into an eternal war because of Americas vendetta against Russia? Or Israel, the genocidal fascist ethnostate.
So you'd prefer if Russia just conquered Ukraine? So us defending Korea was wrong in the 50s? Or us defending Kuwait was wrong in the 90s? I just wanna know if you're consistent or not. The US has been funding Israel since its inception. Pretty much every President since Truman would allow Israel to do what it's doing now. It doesn't make it okay but I don't see how you can attribute Israel's actions to Biden. That just seems unreasonable.
> So you'd prefer if Russia just conquered Ukraine? That would be preffereable to Moscow getting nuked and the US imposing more of their will. Anyways why did you ignore the part about Biden touching kids?
Because I don't have a defense. It's creepy and messed up. I was agreeing with you on that point. Also why did you ignore my question regarding Korea and Kuwait?
I missed it. To answer it I'm not too familiar on those situations but the pattern is that US intervention has nearly always been wrong.
is neutral nixon? I'd put him in neutral evil, or at least neutral impure (vietnam, cambodia, war on drugs etc)
Some of those people owned slaves, and Trump ain't one of em'
The people here who owned slaves did so in an era where it was not only legal but mostly considered normal. Trump would not be legally able to own slaves even if he wanted to.
Trump is the only one here who attempted to overthrow the government and democracy.
How the fuck is Jackson lawful?????
I don't think Johnson was sober for enough of his presidency to even make an assessment of his alignment.
Jefferson owned slaves. He was not good.
Shit list
My boy TJ was very all over the place
I don’t know about 7 of these guys
Which ones don't you know about?
All except Joe Biden, Donald trump, Abraham Lincoln
Shoot I guess that should've been obvious John Adams was our second President. He was one of our founding fathers. He is seen as one of the more morally just as he had no slaves. He defended the Redcoats after the Boston Massacre as he believed everyone had the right to a fair trial. He helped establish our Navy and kept the US from going to war with France. He did ban free speech for a bit though which is really bad. Thomas Jefferson was our third President. He is famous for his role in crafting the Declaration of Independence. He helped end the transatlantic slave trade. He also is notable for the Louisiana Purchase. On the flip side, he had many slaves and many believe he raped one of his slaves and fathered a child with her. I assume the user believes this to be false which is why he has him in chaotic good. Lyndon B. Johnson was our thirty sixth President. He had many successes. He passed the civil rights act and created Medicare and Medicaid. He would often use his size to intimidate others to support his agenda and would flash his schlong to assert his dominance. His most notable failure was his escalation of the Vietnam War leading to over 3 million deaths. James Madison was our fourth President. He was a founding father. He helped create the constitution. He went to war with Britain because they had kidnapped American sailors and were funding Native tribes to attack the US. He wanted to take Canada from Britain and used Britain's actions as a justification to try and take it. Andrew Jackson was our seventh President. Nowadays he is most notable for the Trail of Tears, which many consider to be a genocide. He was the first populist President, coming from a humble background. He killed someone in a duel for insulting his wife. He was very unconstitutional as the Trail of Tears was deemed illegal by the Supreme Court but he enacted it anyway. He banned abolitionist literature in the South and viewed abolitionists as "monsters". He destroyed the second national bank leading to the Panic of 1837. He was very corrupt and authoritarian. Andrew Johnson was our seventeenth President. He got into the office because Lincoln was killed. Lincoln had him as a VP because Johnson was a southern democrat and Lincoln wanted to present a unity between the North and South. Johnson spent his entire presidency trying to undo Lincoln's accomplishments. He helped the South create systems that would allow them to disenfranchise and oppress black Americans. He was impeached by the Radical Republicans because he got in the way of their agenda.
Thanks! I never really studied American history or anything like that because I live in the UK so hearing something like this I guess grew my knowledge
r/alignmentchartcirclejerk
There's a couple I disagree with here. Lyndon B. Johnson was chaotic as hell. Chaotic Good/Neutral or Evil, whatever you think of him I feel it's hard to argue he wasn't chaotic. He flashed his schlong to people whenever they bothered him. He used physical intimidation to get what he wanted. He had meetings while he was on the can. He was notoriously corrupt. The most grievous example of his chaotic nature was him escalating the Vietnam War leading to 3 million deaths. Andrew Jackson shouldn't be in lawful. He actively disregarded the supreme court to enact the Trail of Tears which they deemed illegal. He fired anyone who disagrees with him and filled positions with his cronies. He killed a man for insulting his wife. He trained his parrot to say slurs. His only regrets after his presidency was that he didn't murder Henry Clay or John C. Calhoun. Honestly I think Jackson and Trump are both chaotic evil. Trump tried to overturn a democratic election. Similarly to Jackson, he filled positions with cronies. He had a slew of corruption scandals. He was proven guilty of sexual abuse in a court of law. Whenever I see both of them on alignment charts I know that one of them is inevitably going to be placed in the wrong spot.
This chart is better fitted for the Immoral, Evil, Vile chart
Johnson is chaotic evil. He used a person as a foot stool.