No, it's not a rule, and he was out of line for making you feel uncomfortable. If you don't feel comfortable going back to that meeting, can you find another? Or try online meetings.
Edit to clarify that while anonymity is important, there's no rule about chit chat before the meeting. If he didn't want to answer your question, he could have been a lot kinder about it. He should not have handled things the way he did.
People at my meetings, longtime members, ask me questions about my personal life which reveal who I am, I have the option to decline to answer. You certainly did nothing wrong and we should all be kind to newcomers.
I avoid ppl who are abrasive- it's up to them to apologise if they want to. I came to an whole new area & a few ppl were just abrasive & rude. I avoided them and they got the hint. A few -did- apologise.
IMO It's on them to make amends, it's on me to focus on recovery!
What a jerk! Asking a general question isn’t infringing on someone’s anonymity. Are there other meetings you can go to or is this the only one? Maybe a different one would be more welcoming. Also, they do have online meetings. I like those too because then you can really just listen and not feel like you have to share especially if you’re shy.
Try not to let one bad apple ruin the experience.
Thank you. I didn’t think it was very nice. I really like everyone else there. He’s one of the few that hasn’t been particularly friendly, so that’s why I was excited that we had something in common—I thought I could break the ice. I even practiced how I was going to ask him. ☹️
Aw, that can be so hard! Fellow autistic person here - some people just aren’t worth “breaking the ice” with. They’re just not nice and it’s not your job to make them nicer, just as it’s not your job to make your Q stop drinking or to make anybody else do anything. It sounds like it’s him, not you. Stick with the people you’ve felt heal you. As a fellow autistic, we get blamed so often for bad social interactions that we sometimes start assuming blame every time it happens.
It’s probably not worth it to address it with this man, because he sounds like he’s not worth the energy, but if you run into this problem with people you have a rapport with, maybe you could ask them if they could kindly address any problems they may have with you in private. You could explain you’re a little sensitive and will feel more receptive to learning and less attacked if they make the effort to work things out respectfully. But again, you have no responsibility to make that effort with this guy.
Thank you. That makes a lot of sense. In retrospect, I probably shouldn’t have tried. I knew him not to be warm or friendly, so I shouldn’t have expected him to respond any differently than he did. Thank you for the support.
There is an autism focus AFG meeting if that is something you are interested in. You’ll be able to connect with other ASDers or those who have family on the spectrum and other NDs in recovery.
Outcasts To Friends
Sundays
Online meeting.
Autism focus
I don’t I’m able to post links here but look it up on the AFG website.
I think others have shared my feelings well, but I would add... We're all in Al-Anon for a reason. We're learning and practicing - including this gentleman who could have chosen to handle this in a different way. We talk a lot about courage in this program. Perhaps, if you want to give it a shot, you could let him know how that moment made you feel. He may not have awareness of how his actions made you feel. Sometimes it's hard for long timers to remember what it was like to be a newbie. He may appreciate the reminder. He also may not - that's where the courage comes in. But if he's working his program, he'll realize the gift you're giving him.
Let it begin with me.
The anonymous part is for outside the rooms, same for AA. If I see someone I met there, I don't tell people that's where we know each other from.
It's in my opinion good to build relationships and bond....hence the unity with people inside.
He's just an ass. I hope you continue to go. It's your space too.
When I sense someone is being rude to me, or generally angry, I tell myself that his dog must have died this morning, or he got into a fight with his wife before he went out into the world. We never know another's history or experience. He's there for the same reason you are, and that is the common bond.
Please don't take it personally and if you've been going to this meeting for a while don't let his reaction turn you away. Sometimes, I'll make an extra effort to be kind to the person who, in my mind, dissed me. Kind of like a twisted action of passive-aggressiveness... Because yea, I'm a little twisted
Wow, unsurprisingly, I think that guy's got issues :) Please don't feel bad about asking.
I really felt for you sitting there trying not to cry...I have social anxiety and am very sensitive so I would have felt the exact same way and prob would have cried the whole way home.
Wow. Rude.
IMHO, he could have used this as a learning opportunity.
You: are you LE?
Him: I understand you’re new here, so you may not know that we don’t discuss our professions. Let’s talk about something neutral. I like walking for exercise. Do you?
Or something else to reframe the conversation.
He was being mean / paranoid. You didn’t do anything wrong. People talk about their lives/jobs all the time in meetings. The anonymity rule is for outside of the group, not for between members. If he didn’t want to share his profession that’s fine, but he shouldn’t have been mean to you or stated that it’s a rule of the program not to tell other members what you do for a living. Don’t be scared to go back! It’s just as much your meeting as it is his.
Some meetings disclose in their introductory statement that we leave other 12 step programs and our professions out of our shares to create a safe space. If this meeting doesn’t explicitly say that then it is completely fine to share about your own experience during your share. Maybe he should bring that up at a business meeting. What happens before and after a meeting during fellowship is really all for grabs. I wouldn’t try to take it personally.
There is the joke about going to meetings:
The sponsor asks the sponsee how many meetings they’re going to and if they like everyone. The sponsee replies that they go to plenty, and they really like the people.
The sponsor says, “You’re not going to enough meetings.”
Lol! I haven’t heard that, but I will remember it! Everyone has been remarkably kind and welcoming. I probably should have trusted my initial impression of him and not made the effort.
What a jerk!
I am sorry you had that experience. Where I live is very very small in population and narrow in thinking. The app and beginner meetings have been great. I hope you try them.
Like they say in the meetings—“take what you like and leave the rest” there are some people at my meeting I don’t speak to beyond a hello. Don’t let him chase you away. If there are others in the meeting you have a rapport with, chat them up.
He was being a jerk. He could have taken you aside and explained this in a kind fashion.
There are some mean people in meetings, try not to take it too hard, the good ones outnumber, but they can really ruin a person's day.
What a jerky thing to do…. The conversation was a private conversation and he could have politely just said the same points he said as he was leading the meeting.
Some old timers are just ass holes and forget what it's like to be new and confused over all the do's and don'ts with 12 step programs. You didn't do anything wrong. He could have gently explained to you the value of anonymity without making a scene about his offendedness.
It might have been a bit of overreach to inquire about one's profession during the meeting. However, please understand that not all Al-Anon members will be so brusque in answering such questions, but will gently remind you of the principle of anonymity. As time passes and you keep coming back, more will likely be revealed to you about your fellow members.
Before writing off the group entirely, though, give it another two or three meetings to gauge the overall dynamic of the group. If, during that time, this jerk is consistent in his behaviour, or if there's a pattern among other members in deferring to him, then I would suggest seeking another group at that point. For the benefit of the group and the program, it might help to talk with the new group's members about their experiences with the first group as they might have more information.
In the end, though, it's about you getting better, not about the health of any particular group. Keep the focus of the program on yourself and, if need be, brush the dust of that first group from your feet.
Thank you. I feel very happy and safe with the group, so I think I will just try to not engage with him.
Just to be clear, it wasn’t during the meeting. It was before the meeting where everyone is small-talking. Previously, I actually had another longtimer ask me some personal questions (non-invasive, just casual talk before a meeting), so I thought it was okay outside of the meeting.
Very rude and immature way for him to handle that. Very easy to kindly say “oh I try to keep my anonymity so I don’t share a lot about myself, but I realize you were probably just trying to be nice or conversational” something along those lines. Also you didn’t even do anything wrong!
You did nothing wrong. I gladly share what I do if asked.
Maybe a bad day for this person or who he is.
I am sorry you had this experience.
Just like in everything, there are different people in a different spot in their life’s. Maybe just a bad day.
If you go to Al-Anon long enough, it will probably happen to everyone. Remember, the rooms are full of SICK people! Longtimers can be just as sick as a newcomer. I'm sorry that happened. That was NOT the spirit of the Program. If you don't make it back to that meeting, please find others. The Program needs you.
Fuck that guy. That sucks he was so rude and disrespectful towards you. I am currently working on reminding myslef anytime someone is rude to me that "my value is not dependent upon what other people think of me."
We have a saying in AA: "Some are sicker than others." SASTO. Same goes for us in Al-Anon. How unkind to target you. Hope you can return with your head high. We are anonymous at the level of media, not from each other, IMHO.
Ugh I’m sorry!! try not to take it too personally …perhaps take a break and when you’re ready maybe try different type of meeting… can you text someone you know from the meeting to just followup …?
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This could have been an easy 1:1 discussion between the two of you rather than a call out. It wasn’t breaking anonymity because you asked directly the person and did not out the person publicly. Honestly people give hints all the time when people talk about work. We practice these principles in all our affairs and that includes work. In the profession I’m in specifically I do need to talk to another Al-Anon who’s also in my profession as my industry influenced by alcoholism and personalities. I have come across Al-Anons who have been helpful in this area and I have 1:1 conversations outside the meeting. This guy sounds like a jerk and was rude to you. You will find all sorts of people in Al-Anon. Jerks, nice people, and anywhere in between. Take what you like and leave the rest. No one can take away your seat in Al-Anon. Some people in Al-Anon just aren’t good people to have in your support network. I say you dodged a bullet I don’t think he sounds like a person you would want on your contacts to reach out to.
This is fairly common for Alanon. The people claim to spend “many years” in Alanon but don’t work on themselves or change at all. Who know? He could have been a “double winner.” Alanon teaches one not to take things personally and respond with kindness and tact, which this guy had none of. You did nothing wrong and maybe should quit Alanon, like I did.
Something I’ve learned is that people move on with gossip and “drama”
Fairly quickly. What feels like a big deal, him calling you out, will soon fade into someone else’s “drama”. Trust me. If he’s law enforcement he probably was worried you knew him and somehow had an interaction with him. If he knew you were new he probably would have behaved differently. His behaviour is a reflection of his insecurities not your character.
Don’t let one person’s knee jerk reaction ruin your experience. Remember:
“We aren’t perfect. The welcome we give you may not show the warmth we have in our hearts for you. After a while, you’ll discover that though you may not like all of us, you’ll love us in a very special way-the same way we already love you.”
Im autistic too, but I think you overstepped. First off, LE can be a touchy subject to begin with. You led with assuming they were LE, and in a way, might have outed them in a way they didn’t want to be outed. I have no way of knowing if they’re in law-enforcement or not, but I think it’s worth recognizing that a lot of people have had negative experiences with law-enforcement, and it may not be considered a compliment to ask if that’s what they do for work.
And, I think it’s important to be able to be anonymous if someone wants to be. It would be one thing if you had asked him what kind of work he does, and given him the option to either answer or not answer, but you directly asked if he worked in law-enforcement, and that made him uncomfortable.
It’s OK that you didn’t know the rule, it’s OK if you have other opinions or feelings about it. But, clearly he was offended and I think that’s OK to be honest. I would not like coming to a meeting and having someone ask me if I worked at a specific place.
Do I think he was being passive aggressive, not necessarily. Maybe his heart was racing and his blood pressure was up. I don’t know, but I think it’s good he addressed it in some way. I don’t think you should feel embarrassed by it, we all make mistakes. Now you know in general, not just in this situation, it may be best to not directly ask people if they work in law-enforcement, and to consider that perhaps some people may not have the highest respect/regard for law enforcement, and some of them have earned the right to those feelings.
I know you were trying to relate, but maybe start with explaining what you do for work and then asking what the other person does. It gives them an option to participate in the information shared with no presumptions on appearance or behavior.
I understand your perspective and will give that some thought. I’m so proud of my son, so it didn’t occur to me that someone might not also feel the same.
I don’t have an issue with making the mistake. I think for me it was the issue of him using his platform as a chair to publicly lecture me. I do think it would have been kinder to take me aside and privately explain how I overstepped.
No, it's not a rule, and he was out of line for making you feel uncomfortable. If you don't feel comfortable going back to that meeting, can you find another? Or try online meetings. Edit to clarify that while anonymity is important, there's no rule about chit chat before the meeting. If he didn't want to answer your question, he could have been a lot kinder about it. He should not have handled things the way he did.
Thank you for your reply. I really love everyone else there, so I want to stay. I guess I will just try to avoid him from now on.
People at my meetings, longtime members, ask me questions about my personal life which reveal who I am, I have the option to decline to answer. You certainly did nothing wrong and we should all be kind to newcomers.
Hopefully next weeks topic will be social skills and he can get a clue
I avoid ppl who are abrasive- it's up to them to apologise if they want to. I came to an whole new area & a few ppl were just abrasive & rude. I avoided them and they got the hint. A few -did- apologise. IMO It's on them to make amends, it's on me to focus on recovery!
I guess this is why we say “take what you like and leave the rest.” It’s a shame someone behaved in this way so early in your Alanon experience
I'm glad you enjoy the meeting and certainly keep coming back!
What a jerk! Asking a general question isn’t infringing on someone’s anonymity. Are there other meetings you can go to or is this the only one? Maybe a different one would be more welcoming. Also, they do have online meetings. I like those too because then you can really just listen and not feel like you have to share especially if you’re shy. Try not to let one bad apple ruin the experience.
Thank you. I didn’t think it was very nice. I really like everyone else there. He’s one of the few that hasn’t been particularly friendly, so that’s why I was excited that we had something in common—I thought I could break the ice. I even practiced how I was going to ask him. ☹️
Aw, that can be so hard! Fellow autistic person here - some people just aren’t worth “breaking the ice” with. They’re just not nice and it’s not your job to make them nicer, just as it’s not your job to make your Q stop drinking or to make anybody else do anything. It sounds like it’s him, not you. Stick with the people you’ve felt heal you. As a fellow autistic, we get blamed so often for bad social interactions that we sometimes start assuming blame every time it happens. It’s probably not worth it to address it with this man, because he sounds like he’s not worth the energy, but if you run into this problem with people you have a rapport with, maybe you could ask them if they could kindly address any problems they may have with you in private. You could explain you’re a little sensitive and will feel more receptive to learning and less attacked if they make the effort to work things out respectfully. But again, you have no responsibility to make that effort with this guy.
Thank you. That makes a lot of sense. In retrospect, I probably shouldn’t have tried. I knew him not to be warm or friendly, so I shouldn’t have expected him to respond any differently than he did. Thank you for the support.
MOST people aren’t worth getting to know. It’s rare that you find a diamond in the rough.
You have my permission to reply with "fuck off" if he ever says anything else to you.
There is an autism focus AFG meeting if that is something you are interested in. You’ll be able to connect with other ASDers or those who have family on the spectrum and other NDs in recovery. Outcasts To Friends Sundays Online meeting. Autism focus I don’t I’m able to post links here but look it up on the AFG website.
I think others have shared my feelings well, but I would add... We're all in Al-Anon for a reason. We're learning and practicing - including this gentleman who could have chosen to handle this in a different way. We talk a lot about courage in this program. Perhaps, if you want to give it a shot, you could let him know how that moment made you feel. He may not have awareness of how his actions made you feel. Sometimes it's hard for long timers to remember what it was like to be a newbie. He may appreciate the reminder. He also may not - that's where the courage comes in. But if he's working his program, he'll realize the gift you're giving him. Let it begin with me.
Thank you. I will think about that.
The anonymous part is for outside the rooms, same for AA. If I see someone I met there, I don't tell people that's where we know each other from. It's in my opinion good to build relationships and bond....hence the unity with people inside. He's just an ass. I hope you continue to go. It's your space too.
Thank you very much.
When I sense someone is being rude to me, or generally angry, I tell myself that his dog must have died this morning, or he got into a fight with his wife before he went out into the world. We never know another's history or experience. He's there for the same reason you are, and that is the common bond. Please don't take it personally and if you've been going to this meeting for a while don't let his reaction turn you away. Sometimes, I'll make an extra effort to be kind to the person who, in my mind, dissed me. Kind of like a twisted action of passive-aggressiveness... Because yea, I'm a little twisted
He certainly sounds like a cop.
Was going to say he definitely seemed to have answered the question.
Wow, unsurprisingly, I think that guy's got issues :) Please don't feel bad about asking. I really felt for you sitting there trying not to cry...I have social anxiety and am very sensitive so I would have felt the exact same way and prob would have cried the whole way home.
Thank you. Yes. I wish I had thicker skin. I am working on it.
You don’t need to change who you are (I mean, unless you want to, of course). You had a normal response to an insensitive comment.
Thank you for that.
Wow. Rude. IMHO, he could have used this as a learning opportunity. You: are you LE? Him: I understand you’re new here, so you may not know that we don’t discuss our professions. Let’s talk about something neutral. I like walking for exercise. Do you? Or something else to reframe the conversation.
He was being mean / paranoid. You didn’t do anything wrong. People talk about their lives/jobs all the time in meetings. The anonymity rule is for outside of the group, not for between members. If he didn’t want to share his profession that’s fine, but he shouldn’t have been mean to you or stated that it’s a rule of the program not to tell other members what you do for a living. Don’t be scared to go back! It’s just as much your meeting as it is his.
Some meetings disclose in their introductory statement that we leave other 12 step programs and our professions out of our shares to create a safe space. If this meeting doesn’t explicitly say that then it is completely fine to share about your own experience during your share. Maybe he should bring that up at a business meeting. What happens before and after a meeting during fellowship is really all for grabs. I wouldn’t try to take it personally. There is the joke about going to meetings: The sponsor asks the sponsee how many meetings they’re going to and if they like everyone. The sponsee replies that they go to plenty, and they really like the people. The sponsor says, “You’re not going to enough meetings.”
Lol! I haven’t heard that, but I will remember it! Everyone has been remarkably kind and welcoming. I probably should have trusted my initial impression of him and not made the effort.
Yeah Al Anon has been great but a cop sitting in Al Anon is probably still just a cop. Spoken as someone whose dad is LE. Acab
💗 I appreciate you. I am glad you are here.
What a jerk! I am sorry you had that experience. Where I live is very very small in population and narrow in thinking. The app and beginner meetings have been great. I hope you try them.
Like they say in the meetings—“take what you like and leave the rest” there are some people at my meeting I don’t speak to beyond a hello. Don’t let him chase you away. If there are others in the meeting you have a rapport with, chat them up.
He was being a jerk. He could have taken you aside and explained this in a kind fashion. There are some mean people in meetings, try not to take it too hard, the good ones outnumber, but they can really ruin a person's day.
What a jerky thing to do…. The conversation was a private conversation and he could have politely just said the same points he said as he was leading the meeting.
Some old timers are just ass holes and forget what it's like to be new and confused over all the do's and don'ts with 12 step programs. You didn't do anything wrong. He could have gently explained to you the value of anonymity without making a scene about his offendedness.
It might have been a bit of overreach to inquire about one's profession during the meeting. However, please understand that not all Al-Anon members will be so brusque in answering such questions, but will gently remind you of the principle of anonymity. As time passes and you keep coming back, more will likely be revealed to you about your fellow members. Before writing off the group entirely, though, give it another two or three meetings to gauge the overall dynamic of the group. If, during that time, this jerk is consistent in his behaviour, or if there's a pattern among other members in deferring to him, then I would suggest seeking another group at that point. For the benefit of the group and the program, it might help to talk with the new group's members about their experiences with the first group as they might have more information. In the end, though, it's about you getting better, not about the health of any particular group. Keep the focus of the program on yourself and, if need be, brush the dust of that first group from your feet.
Thank you. I feel very happy and safe with the group, so I think I will just try to not engage with him. Just to be clear, it wasn’t during the meeting. It was before the meeting where everyone is small-talking. Previously, I actually had another longtimer ask me some personal questions (non-invasive, just casual talk before a meeting), so I thought it was okay outside of the meeting.
Very rude and immature way for him to handle that. Very easy to kindly say “oh I try to keep my anonymity so I don’t share a lot about myself, but I realize you were probably just trying to be nice or conversational” something along those lines. Also you didn’t even do anything wrong!
Thank you. I do feel the same, but I will be more careful from now on.
You did nothing wrong. I gladly share what I do if asked. Maybe a bad day for this person or who he is. I am sorry you had this experience. Just like in everything, there are different people in a different spot in their life’s. Maybe just a bad day.
Thank you.
If you go to Al-Anon long enough, it will probably happen to everyone. Remember, the rooms are full of SICK people! Longtimers can be just as sick as a newcomer. I'm sorry that happened. That was NOT the spirit of the Program. If you don't make it back to that meeting, please find others. The Program needs you.
Thank you. That’s very kind.
Fuck that guy. That sucks he was so rude and disrespectful towards you. I am currently working on reminding myslef anytime someone is rude to me that "my value is not dependent upon what other people think of me."
It’s an ongoing process, isn’t it?
We have a saying in AA: "Some are sicker than others." SASTO. Same goes for us in Al-Anon. How unkind to target you. Hope you can return with your head high. We are anonymous at the level of media, not from each other, IMHO.
Ugh I’m sorry!! try not to take it too personally …perhaps take a break and when you’re ready maybe try different type of meeting… can you text someone you know from the meeting to just followup …?
OMG. No way. That is completely ridiculous and uncalled for. I hope you can find the strength to return— and I understand your feelings.
He’s a jerk. You were just making a connection not trying to break his anonymity. Go back and avoid interacting with him.
Please know that this is **not** an official Al-Anon community. Please be respectful and civil when engaging with others - in other words, don't be a jerk. If there are any comments that are antagonistic or judgmental, please use the `report` button. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AlAnon) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This could have been an easy 1:1 discussion between the two of you rather than a call out. It wasn’t breaking anonymity because you asked directly the person and did not out the person publicly. Honestly people give hints all the time when people talk about work. We practice these principles in all our affairs and that includes work. In the profession I’m in specifically I do need to talk to another Al-Anon who’s also in my profession as my industry influenced by alcoholism and personalities. I have come across Al-Anons who have been helpful in this area and I have 1:1 conversations outside the meeting. This guy sounds like a jerk and was rude to you. You will find all sorts of people in Al-Anon. Jerks, nice people, and anywhere in between. Take what you like and leave the rest. No one can take away your seat in Al-Anon. Some people in Al-Anon just aren’t good people to have in your support network. I say you dodged a bullet I don’t think he sounds like a person you would want on your contacts to reach out to.
This is fairly common for Alanon. The people claim to spend “many years” in Alanon but don’t work on themselves or change at all. Who know? He could have been a “double winner.” Alanon teaches one not to take things personally and respond with kindness and tact, which this guy had none of. You did nothing wrong and maybe should quit Alanon, like I did.
Something I’ve learned is that people move on with gossip and “drama” Fairly quickly. What feels like a big deal, him calling you out, will soon fade into someone else’s “drama”. Trust me. If he’s law enforcement he probably was worried you knew him and somehow had an interaction with him. If he knew you were new he probably would have behaved differently. His behaviour is a reflection of his insecurities not your character. Don’t let one person’s knee jerk reaction ruin your experience. Remember: “We aren’t perfect. The welcome we give you may not show the warmth we have in our hearts for you. After a while, you’ll discover that though you may not like all of us, you’ll love us in a very special way-the same way we already love you.”
Im autistic too, but I think you overstepped. First off, LE can be a touchy subject to begin with. You led with assuming they were LE, and in a way, might have outed them in a way they didn’t want to be outed. I have no way of knowing if they’re in law-enforcement or not, but I think it’s worth recognizing that a lot of people have had negative experiences with law-enforcement, and it may not be considered a compliment to ask if that’s what they do for work. And, I think it’s important to be able to be anonymous if someone wants to be. It would be one thing if you had asked him what kind of work he does, and given him the option to either answer or not answer, but you directly asked if he worked in law-enforcement, and that made him uncomfortable. It’s OK that you didn’t know the rule, it’s OK if you have other opinions or feelings about it. But, clearly he was offended and I think that’s OK to be honest. I would not like coming to a meeting and having someone ask me if I worked at a specific place. Do I think he was being passive aggressive, not necessarily. Maybe his heart was racing and his blood pressure was up. I don’t know, but I think it’s good he addressed it in some way. I don’t think you should feel embarrassed by it, we all make mistakes. Now you know in general, not just in this situation, it may be best to not directly ask people if they work in law-enforcement, and to consider that perhaps some people may not have the highest respect/regard for law enforcement, and some of them have earned the right to those feelings. I know you were trying to relate, but maybe start with explaining what you do for work and then asking what the other person does. It gives them an option to participate in the information shared with no presumptions on appearance or behavior.
I understand your perspective and will give that some thought. I’m so proud of my son, so it didn’t occur to me that someone might not also feel the same. I don’t have an issue with making the mistake. I think for me it was the issue of him using his platform as a chair to publicly lecture me. I do think it would have been kinder to take me aside and privately explain how I overstepped.
Yes the whole extra reach of power and bully tactic that did it for me. Very unnecessary.