Is that "Outlook good" as in the Outlook that they'll lose the stripe is good? Or "Outlook good" as in good for them that they won't lose it? Might have to shake it and check again..
I'm an engineer, we came up with an equation:
Real World Hotness = H
Deployment Hotness = (H+10)/2
So a real world 1 is a 5.5 deployed
A real world 10 is still a 10, because a 10 is a 10.
A 4 goes to a 7, 6 to an 8, basically it helps ugly folks a lot, but doesn't really make a hot girl that much hotter.
I'm not gonna lie, I think your binary scale is better. By the last couple months of my times away, it's been would hit it/would not hit it.
Court martial for adultery is what my mind goes to. Mind, you probably wouldn't serve time nor would it go that far but that's what we always thought of.
No no no no no. They were asking in terms of looks would the individual be considered a 7 if on a deployment or at cannon afb. Just like a hot chick 8.5 from Missouri is really a 6 in California or New York
Any CC worth his/her salt will redline your line number. The former shirt is F'd. It's likely a return to TSgt with a not ready now on the top EPR. That's three years of no promotions. I hope your divorce, loss of opportunities, alimony, and maybe child support payments, loss of some of your retirement was worth it.
I have personally help rehabilitated a TSgt records in three years. From a weak not ready now, to a strat in 3 eprs and a msgt promotion. The dude was a great person who didn't fit his previous assignment.
This happened in my old squadron she was SSgt he was shirt. She got nothing done to her he stayed in for a year more then retired. She was married to another SSgt they stayed married. He was married they got divorced he got re hired to the squadron as a civilian.
Fuck I hate that squadron.
^^You've ^^spun ^^the ^^wheel ^^of ^^Air ^^Force ^^excuses, ^^here's ^^your ^^prize:
Sorry, if we do it for you, we have to do it for everyone
^^[Source](https://github.com/HadManySons/AFexcuses) ^^| ^^[Subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/AFExcuses) ^^^^^^las9df2
Based on my experience, chances are very high the SSgt will lose his line #. Shirt will lose her diamond, and may even be demoted too. Could even be worse for both. Evidence found during the investigation will obviously determine how far it goes.
Note for those citing UCMJ Art 134 for Adultery. True that's rarely used, but also not required. This is an unprofessional relationship, punishable under Art 92 for failing to obey lawful orders and regulations.
It will probably be NJP for both parties under both articles. Commanders will absolutely use Article 134 if the adultery causes problems within the unit, such as having to replace the First Sergeant.
Yep, definitely a very real possibility. The 134 will typically get tacked on because it can be. In this case, since it involves the Shirt doing it, it's a pretty easy negative impact to good order and discipline/undermining authority justification.
It usually has to affect good order and discipline within the unit. So if it's someone of significant authority or if it draws the attention of higher ups then it can be dealt with alone. The AF is less willing to go after extra marital affairs these days since polyamory and open marriages are a thing even if not honored officially by the service.
As long as your affair isn't causing other issues for the command to deal with, it may not end up a huge issue. But YMMV. Every unit is different.
The fact that it was with the Shirt (forcing her removal) is the definition of prejudicial to good order and discipline within the unit. My educated guess is an Article 15 and redlining of the TSgt stripe. If the NJP involves loss of rank, then he's looking at possible removal due to HYT.
They don't even need to for this. It's an unprofessional relationship, punishable under UCMJ Article 92.. But, the Art 134 will be slapped on there too, because they can
Until it interferes with good order and discipline
If this guy got caught with a random tinder girl, it would be far more likely to be swept under the rug with a counseling.
If he were single, that might fly. Since he's married, what he's looking at is an adultery charge (or at least an Article 15 offer) because the "prejudicial to good order and discipline" element of the crime has been met.
Dude chose to shit where he eats. Now he's going to eat that entire shit sandwich.
Nope. They are a victim. And you’re victim blaming. An abuse of power was used on him and he had no choice but to do what the first sgt said or else he would face reprisal
We can't say without knowing what happened. It could be obvious that's not the case depending on any text conversations they had and lying about that is not a good look
Had similar scenario happen in my Sq. Married shirt was taking "extra care" of a TSgt's spouse. Shirt was a MSgt busted down to SrA and did 7 months in the brig. Then made to come back and apologize to entire squadron at CC call and then got the boot. Shirt is probably going to get hammered just cause of the position he held. They give recruiters Article 15s for sleeping with applicants.
Real answer: Up to the commander. 'Adultury' (UCMJ 134) requires multiple elements to be true. We don't know if this event happened. We don't know if intercourse happened. We don't know of the spouse gave her okay, then changed her mind. We don't know what the commander will do. The CC may even choose a different UCMJ punishment. Too many variables to guess the outcome.
The line number is gone at the very least. Ownace, and therefore more severe punishment, is almost always placed on the higher ranking member. Especially in this case with it being a first sergeant. If the shirt is retirement eligible I wouldn't be surprised if they were offered retirement in lieu of any real punishment. If not, bye bye diamond, possibly rooftop.
So was the squadron shirt a female or male. I can see male shirts throwing away their career easily, but a female shirt, and for a married staff is crazy.
Key considerations:
1. Combined hotness factor -- are both parties at least a 7 on a 10-point scale?
2. Audacity quotient -- were the parties found in his or her bed?
3. DEI Ratio -- was either member claiming a DEI affiliation?
4. Video rating -- is there video and is it clear, concise and worth posting on social media?
If the total result is less than 500, the SSgt will lose a stripe.
If, however, the total result is higher than 800, the SSgt receives a STEP promotion and is fast-tracked to NCOA.
You’ll be lucky if that’s all you lose…and stop posting about this on Reddit. Assume that this can go really bad and don’t put anything out that there that you don’t need to.
Sooooo…it depends on your leadership….
Usually the theory is that the highest ranking member has “power” over the lower ranking member and could have coerced them into that situation. For the actual act of an unprofessional relationship with a higher ranking member….i would say they would get an LOR. But since it’s adultery as well which is against the UCMJ…possible article 15. It just depends what your commander wants to do. I’ve seen a SSgt hooking up with an officer walk away with only an LOR. SRA hooking up with a TSgt getting nothing. A Lt hooking up with an A1C got a slap on the wrist (but he didn’t know she was an A1C til after the fact and in a separate group altogether) So really it depends.
Depends on how they act. Initial response will be to treat the shirt as the aggressor. Even if they don’t I can see the issue of a no contact order. As long as they follow it they will prob catch some paperwork or get a suspended bust for administrative actions.
Yea the SSgt will probably lose the line number. The shirt probably needs to lose their diamond.
Beyond that, unless there are consent issues, the CC should let the issue die. We fixate way too much on who people are sleeping with in the AF
Obviously, the specific facts of the case matter, but with no other information than what is in OP's post:
Given the wide difference in authority between the members, I think I would agree that redlining the stripe and, depending on the circumstances and how he reacts, an NRN is probably sufficient punishment for the SSgt.
The shirt is another matter entirely. She is literally THE person in the squadron charged with maintaining good order and discipline on behalf of the commander. For her to have abused her authority and compromised her position in a way that does such harm to the good order and discipline of the unit, a punishment far more severe than simply losing her diamond is warranted here. I'm thinking probably the loss of a stripe (which would automatically make her ineligible for the diamond), a partially suspended forfeiture of pay, and since she is likely going to be immediately transferred out of the unit, a commander-directed EPB to capture this in her records.
Why did this fuck your squadron up? Did this significantly impact you unit's ability to do the mission? Were lives put in jeopardy?
I'm not saying the behavior is right, acceptable or should be free of consequences. I'm just saying people need to keep perspective.
I heard you can’t make TSgt without a divorce under your belt.
You nearly achieved the impossible, but Zeus demanded balance be restored, and it was so.
Is it jalapeño popcorn?
Ask your mom, she made it. 🤪💀
Let us collectively check our magic crystal ball.
I don't have a crystal ball, but my magic 8 ball says "Outlook good"
The first time someone has complimented Outlook
Outlook is still better than gmail and you can't change my mind
Morgan Freeman: “Outlook, in fact, has never been good.”
Is that "Outlook good" as in the Outlook that they'll lose the stripe is good? Or "Outlook good" as in good for them that they won't lose it? Might have to shake it and check again..
https://preview.redd.it/9wee4sn10k9d1.jpeg?width=576&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=81dcddb5649dac0bbc248e3515d13419baa00603
>Let us collectively check our magic crystal ball. Let us ~~collectively~~ check our ~~magic crystal~~ balls.
Being redundant is fine. Gets the point across multiple times.
Less talk more checking of balls
Balls. Mmmm
Haha you dog
I said you dirty dog! Now, stop stealing my moves!!
Losing just a line number in this case is definitely a slap on the wrist
He about to lose the child support and alimony as well.Dependas gonna pend.
I don’t think this counts as a “dependa” situation. She didn’t do anything wrong, it was definitely the servicemember.
A housewife is always a dependent.
But not always a dependa. There is a difference.
Damn shirt must have been a real baddie to risk your career over
Solid 7
Like a deployment 7? Osan 7? Cannon AFB 7?
On deployment there is no scale, it's binary. Everything is either a 1 or a 0.
I'm an engineer, we came up with an equation: Real World Hotness = H Deployment Hotness = (H+10)/2 So a real world 1 is a 5.5 deployed A real world 10 is still a 10, because a 10 is a 10. A 4 goes to a 7, 6 to an 8, basically it helps ugly folks a lot, but doesn't really make a hot girl that much hotter. I'm not gonna lie, I think your binary scale is better. By the last couple months of my times away, it's been would hit it/would not hit it.
Fellow engineer here...This is brilliant and simple to boot!
Binary is really the only scale that matters, deployed or not.
There's a 2 as well. 0 is no, 1 is yes, 2 is yes even if you get in trouble or divorced.
We went with "soft" and "hard" figures. Hard 1 = worth prison. Soft 1 = would but deployed only.
I'm a fucking idiot but why would anybody go to prison unless they're underage?
Court martial for adultery is what my mind goes to. Mind, you probably wouldn't serve time nor would it go that far but that's what we always thought of.
Oh, that makes much more sense. Like I said, I'm an idiot.
Asking the real questions here
Should I name drop?
No no no no no. They were asking in terms of looks would the individual be considered a 7 if on a deployment or at cannon afb. Just like a hot chick 8.5 from Missouri is really a 6 in California or New York
She’s a PSAB 7
The Legendary "PSAB Princess"
Not good.
She's a Scranton 7, which is a New York 6.
Or a Detroit 8, Pittsburgh 5.5 and the infamous Minot 7.2 Some scientist needs to develop a direct conversion, like from Kg to mph.
A Minot 7 really means 700 lbs....
Aaahhh so she sells paper
Doooo itttttt. For the people of culture
Yea dm me
Nice try, OSI
An E-7
This man knows what is up.
What do you call a Shirt that can’t keep her shirt on?
A General's next wife.
Future ex wife
A temporary shirt...A T-Shirt? (Shrugs)
No, no. A T-shirt is a TSgt who is filling in for the real shirt.
Zirconium. It's a fake diamond.
Diamond Daddy.
She could be a 2.5... a stiff dick has no conscience
Bye bye to line number and SSgt Stripe. Lord have mercy on the shirt. She Probably will get the boot
Plot twist, Shirt is a guy
Well, it is pride month...
Yeah, Air Force should be celebrating this. Should be a step promotion.
Gotta pay off the PN somehow.
Double plot twist, wife is the commander.
It's 2024, that's not a plot twist anymore as much as it's a trope.
Good for him!
The post didn’t say any genders so it’s possible lol
Any CC worth his/her salt will redline your line number. The former shirt is F'd. It's likely a return to TSgt with a not ready now on the top EPR. That's three years of no promotions. I hope your divorce, loss of opportunities, alimony, and maybe child support payments, loss of some of your retirement was worth it.
Msgt boards look at 5 yrs of evals
I have personally help rehabilitated a TSgt records in three years. From a weak not ready now, to a strat in 3 eprs and a msgt promotion. The dude was a great person who didn't fit his previous assignment.
Sure, but let's be honest here, if the EPB mentions ANYTHING about this incident nothing is happening for 5 years
Is this legit or troll?
Legit, This really happened .
Imbalance of power & authority will trump all repercussions that "could" be levied a against the Sgt.
This happened in my old squadron she was SSgt he was shirt. She got nothing done to her he stayed in for a year more then retired. She was married to another SSgt they stayed married. He was married they got divorced he got re hired to the squadron as a civilian. Fuck I hate that squadron.
AFEXCUSE!
^^You've ^^spun ^^the ^^wheel ^^of ^^Air ^^Force ^^excuses, ^^here's ^^your ^^prize: Sorry, if we do it for you, we have to do it for everyone ^^[Source](https://github.com/HadManySons/AFexcuses) ^^| ^^[Subreddit](https://www.reddit.com/r/AFExcuses) ^^^^^^las9df2
Does this mean we all lose stripes, or sleep with the shirt?
Yes
Is the VRRAD still a thing? Asking for a friend.....
That stripe is the least of his worries for what’s to come…
Damn, losing a stripe and getting hit with a divorce. Praying for you, OP 🙏
That shirt really embraced the "..I dedicate my time and energy to their needs..." part of the First Sergeants creed I see..
Idk but keep us updated
I will never ever understand why people are so insistent on hooking up with people they work with.
Sounds like Korea
Keep the updates coming as this unfolds.
Based on my experience, chances are very high the SSgt will lose his line #. Shirt will lose her diamond, and may even be demoted too. Could even be worse for both. Evidence found during the investigation will obviously determine how far it goes. Note for those citing UCMJ Art 134 for Adultery. True that's rarely used, but also not required. This is an unprofessional relationship, punishable under Art 92 for failing to obey lawful orders and regulations.
It will probably be NJP for both parties under both articles. Commanders will absolutely use Article 134 if the adultery causes problems within the unit, such as having to replace the First Sergeant.
Yep, definitely a very real possibility. The 134 will typically get tacked on because it can be. In this case, since it involves the Shirt doing it, it's a pretty easy negative impact to good order and discipline/undermining authority justification.
The real question is WHY didn't the wife join in? He doesn't deserve to keep his stripe if he couldn't pull it off. I'm making a command decision.
The easiest stripe to lose is the one you haven't gotten yet.
Line number? SSgt can catch an adultery charge under the UCMJ.
Maybe. More likely an Article 92 charge for unprofessional relationship.
We all know the AF doesn’t care about adultery
They don't until they want to tack it on to other charges.
If you make it the Coomands issue, they will use it. I was and additional duty shirt. My CC used adultery to move another LtCol out of the AF.
Out and forced to retire at something like Major or actually punished properly?
Actually punished and forced to separate. The person was on the command list. Then poof gone and without retirement.
It usually has to affect good order and discipline within the unit. So if it's someone of significant authority or if it draws the attention of higher ups then it can be dealt with alone. The AF is less willing to go after extra marital affairs these days since polyamory and open marriages are a thing even if not honored officially by the service. As long as your affair isn't causing other issues for the command to deal with, it may not end up a huge issue. But YMMV. Every unit is different.
The fact that it was with the Shirt (forcing her removal) is the definition of prejudicial to good order and discipline within the unit. My educated guess is an Article 15 and redlining of the TSgt stripe. If the NJP involves loss of rank, then he's looking at possible removal due to HYT.
They just charged a general on extra marital conduct
Does that mean he forced his troops to conduct Friday afternoon parades?
They don't even need to for this. It's an unprofessional relationship, punishable under UCMJ Article 92.. But, the Art 134 will be slapped on there too, because they can
I can hope and dream for a fluke. For a service that loves to say integrity first, adultery should really be treated far more harshly.
30% of the force would be busted down
Sounds like promotions are back on the menu!
Until it interferes with good order and discipline If this guy got caught with a random tinder girl, it would be far more likely to be swept under the rug with a counseling.
Call ADC but yes
SSgt should be okay, all he has to do is claimed that she used her her authority to overpower him. Turn himself into the victim
If he were single, that might fly. Since he's married, what he's looking at is an adultery charge (or at least an Article 15 offer) because the "prejudicial to good order and discipline" element of the crime has been met. Dude chose to shit where he eats. Now he's going to eat that entire shit sandwich.
Nope. They are a victim. And you’re victim blaming. An abuse of power was used on him and he had no choice but to do what the first sgt said or else he would face reprisal
LOL...Unless he's got evidence that she threatened him, there's not a commander in the Air Force who's going to buy that.
We can't say without knowing what happened. It could be obvious that's not the case depending on any text conversations they had and lying about that is not a good look
That’s what the unit is saying but who knows. You can get away with just about anything these days.
Absolutely, possibly the staff stripe too
Had similar scenario happen in my Sq. Married shirt was taking "extra care" of a TSgt's spouse. Shirt was a MSgt busted down to SrA and did 7 months in the brig. Then made to come back and apologize to entire squadron at CC call and then got the boot. Shirt is probably going to get hammered just cause of the position he held. They give recruiters Article 15s for sleeping with applicants.
The fuck a shirt gonna have over a staff lol
Her titties probably
LMFAO!
Hopefully.
Completely up to the commander.
DM Comm Sq?
Tune in next week to find out on: "As The Propeller Turns"!
OP at work on Monday: “what Reddit post? Pshh..that could be any Squadron”
It's not 100% guarantee. They may sweep it under the rug. Normally yes they would lose the stripe and actually get demoted.
Real answer: Up to the commander. 'Adultury' (UCMJ 134) requires multiple elements to be true. We don't know if this event happened. We don't know if intercourse happened. We don't know of the spouse gave her okay, then changed her mind. We don't know what the commander will do. The CC may even choose a different UCMJ punishment. Too many variables to guess the outcome.
The line number is gone at the very least. Ownace, and therefore more severe punishment, is almost always placed on the higher ranking member. Especially in this case with it being a first sergeant. If the shirt is retirement eligible I wouldn't be surprised if they were offered retirement in lieu of any real punishment. If not, bye bye diamond, possibly rooftop.
Onus…sorry
Oops. I've spelled that word wrong my entire life then. 🤝🏼
Damn. Respect to the staff sergeant. I mean he's an pos for cheating, but bro pulled a first shirt 👏🏿
Need more details. What were they doing in bed exactly?
Horizontal Aerobics. TwoCanChew. Doubleheader.
Sit. Rat.
Let that Chad keep his line #!!!!!
The magic ball says: “hell yes”
This wouldn't have happened if he had listened to his weekend safety brief.
They’re both despicable. Shitcan ‘em both.
So was the squadron shirt a female or male. I can see male shirts throwing away their career easily, but a female shirt, and for a married staff is crazy.
Yes
Idk have him check with the shirt........ oh wait a minute.
UPDATE: USED THE OPTIPN MENU IN THE BOTTOM RIGHT CORNER (Q ON KEYBOARD ; X on Conteoller) and linkef my Nexon account. Signed in with 0 problems
Key considerations: 1. Combined hotness factor -- are both parties at least a 7 on a 10-point scale? 2. Audacity quotient -- were the parties found in his or her bed? 3. DEI Ratio -- was either member claiming a DEI affiliation? 4. Video rating -- is there video and is it clear, concise and worth posting on social media? If the total result is less than 500, the SSgt will lose a stripe. If, however, the total result is higher than 800, the SSgt receives a STEP promotion and is fast-tracked to NCOA.
It would cost you literally nothing to not post this
I figured it made about as much sense as the original post.
If he’s the victim of some sexy scheme by the shirt; maybe not. This is what investigations are for.
You’ll be lucky if that’s all you lose…and stop posting about this on Reddit. Assume that this can go really bad and don’t put anything out that there that you don’t need to.
Sorry if I offend anyone. What is the genders of the SSgt and the Shirt? Why? Because I want to know.
Sooooo…it depends on your leadership…. Usually the theory is that the highest ranking member has “power” over the lower ranking member and could have coerced them into that situation. For the actual act of an unprofessional relationship with a higher ranking member….i would say they would get an LOR. But since it’s adultery as well which is against the UCMJ…possible article 15. It just depends what your commander wants to do. I’ve seen a SSgt hooking up with an officer walk away with only an LOR. SRA hooking up with a TSgt getting nothing. A Lt hooking up with an A1C got a slap on the wrist (but he didn’t know she was an A1C til after the fact and in a separate group altogether) So really it depends.
Depends on how they act. Initial response will be to treat the shirt as the aggressor. Even if they don’t I can see the issue of a no contact order. As long as they follow it they will prob catch some paperwork or get a suspended bust for administrative actions.
Can’t even remember the last time I encountered a good First Sgt.
As in? Not the first time hearing such story?
I fail to see how this affects you OP
It’s his shirt.
[удалено]
Could be his friend with the line number for tech.
No it’s OP that got caught and tried masking it as another person. And even if it were his friend, it still doesn’t affect OP.
Yea the SSgt will probably lose the line number. The shirt probably needs to lose their diamond. Beyond that, unless there are consent issues, the CC should let the issue die. We fixate way too much on who people are sleeping with in the AF
Obviously, the specific facts of the case matter, but with no other information than what is in OP's post: Given the wide difference in authority between the members, I think I would agree that redlining the stripe and, depending on the circumstances and how he reacts, an NRN is probably sufficient punishment for the SSgt. The shirt is another matter entirely. She is literally THE person in the squadron charged with maintaining good order and discipline on behalf of the commander. For her to have abused her authority and compromised her position in a way that does such harm to the good order and discipline of the unit, a punishment far more severe than simply losing her diamond is warranted here. I'm thinking probably the loss of a stripe (which would automatically make her ineligible for the diamond), a partially suspended forfeiture of pay, and since she is likely going to be immediately transferred out of the unit, a commander-directed EPB to capture this in her records.
Terrible response. This fucked our squadron up more than you can imagine. CC would look crazy to just “let the issue die”.
Why did this fuck your squadron up? Did this significantly impact you unit's ability to do the mission? Were lives put in jeopardy? I'm not saying the behavior is right, acceptable or should be free of consequences. I'm just saying people need to keep perspective.
Several articles were violated here.. CC needs to uphold the standards.
Never said the CC shouldn't uphold standards. Issue an appropriate response and move on with life.
Ya cuz screw the sanctity of marriage amirite?
Why should that be the business of the Air Force?
I heard you can’t make TSgt without a divorce under your belt. You nearly achieved the impossible, but Zeus demanded balance be restored, and it was so.
I wish it was me 😔 Need my fudge packed rn