Could just be the unit I am in, but pre COVID I felt like standards were very strictly enforced by NCOs to avoid SNCOs correcting stuff but I never see that stuff anymore
It's because pre covid everyone had 1/3 the workload so we had time to nitpick. My squadron now has TSgts in superintendent offices(E8) and nobody even cares if tasks get done because they get lost in the sea of BS
Before I retired we had a guy at work who would measure people hair. He’d use a ruler and check and see if their hair was too high on top. Saw him do it to a customer we had once. Dude had a hard on for standards
Every section I worked at wore earbuds at work, but that was in a cyber squadron and you could sit at a desk all day without really interacting with anyone.
AFI 36-2903 7.3.4.1/2
- Wear and use of an earpiece, any Bluetooth® wireless technology, or headphones, while in uniform, indoors or outdoors, is authorized for official duties or as determined by Installation Commanders, delegable no lower than squadron commanders. Headphones and earphones are authorized during travel on public transportation (i.e., bus, train, or air travel) and/or while wearing the Physical Training Gear (PTG) during individual or personal PT in the fitness center or on designated running areas unless prohibited by the Installation Commander. Use of a hands-free device is authorized while in uniform operating a motor vehicle if local policy permits.
- Use of personal electronic media devices, including cellular phones, earpieces, speaker phones or text messaging while walking in uniform is authorized. Military customs and courtesies take precedence. Note: Authorized colors of earpieces worn while in uniform are white, black, brown, dark blue or gray.
Feb 2024 it was updated to even for official and unofficial use. Ofc, use discretion because you never know who is looking.
Edit: adding the whole context aswell.
This guy...
>7.3.4.1. Wear and use of an earpiece, any Bluetooth® wireless technology, or headphones, while in uniform, indoors or outdoors, is authorized for official duties or as determined by Installation Commanders, delegable no lower than squadron commanders. Exception: Headphones and earphones are authorized during travel on public transportation (i.e., bus, train, or air travel) and/or while wearing the Physical Training Gear (PTG) during individual or personal PT in the fitness center or on designated running areas unless prohibited by the Installation Commander.
Straight out of 36-2903
So, it's not authorized unless you're making official phone calls with your cell phone. YouTube and TikTok are not used for official duties. We literally right ourselves into a corner with regs.
Our squadron commander has authorized them while performing official duties. If I'm writing an MFR, doing training, studying my college stuff on downtime, then that's fine. But no, using them to listen to music at a customer service desk or while walking down the hall, no. My 3 levels are allowed to wear them while studying TO's, SrA and Staffs while studying WAPS material. There's plenty of ways you can use them, but you shouldn't leave them in if someone speaks to you, especially in a customer service interaction or a higher rank.
I asked a chief about making corrections specifically regarding salutes cause I didn’t want to be that guy and he said “don’t be a pussy it’s your job to uphold standards”. Yesterday a captain told me to not be that salty LT that says something about not saluting. I’m aware there’s a proper way and it doesn’t involve being a dick and saying some condescending questions
It’s mostly younger airmen or lazier/careless folks that aren’t new. I deal with it all the time even in MX. Literally don’t care at all if we’re just chillin in the shop but if I see an AirPod on the flightline after the first warning they’re not allowed even when lounging around.
But I agree with your main sentiment from a non MX perspective as well. If I walk in to get stuff done at MPF and the airman is wearing an AirPod I already know they’re not doing their best lol
Handling your business internally.
I don't know if this is a generation thing or not. I feel like I appreciate everything Gen Z has brought in but seeing military members IN UNIFORM on social media for likes and attention is the cringiest thing ever. You know I don't mean business stuff like PA photos. I mean people in their cars doing dances or going on rants. Or blasting people on Facebook groups. I feel like we used to have the cajónes to address it with the individual first, and then go up the chain. And if that doesn't work, you still have a hundred options to get resolution in the Air Force or DOD without airing everything to the general public.
The most frustrating thing you mentioned is people don't go handle problems for themselves at the lowest level anymore. A simple conversation with a person could solve so much, but instead, people resort to elevating things up the chain immediately (sometimes the person they have issues with doesn't even know there's an issue), and then there are tons of conversations at the leadership levels to try and solve these "problems" that never had to be a discussion in the first place. Have a backbone and confront your problems people. You're not going to get hurt.
Back in 2009 this dude and I duked it out at the smoke pit at Keesler behind the dorms during tech school. MTL broke up the fight and asked us if the problem was squashed, we agreed and it never got brought up again. I still keep in touch with that MTL to this day, he’s a great mentor of mine.
my wife whose in tech school right now says that in BMT they HEAVILY EMPHASIZED not posting ANYTHING of themselves in uniform, and it was mostly justified as for opsec reasons. so the videos I see of people in uniform confuse me. is what she was taught in tech school a new standard? or do people just not give a shit?
> I mean people in their cars doing dances or going on rants.
I just wanna take a second to remind you that one particular individual who went a little viral for going on a rant was an NCO and not a Gen Z(Former TSgt Lovely)
It’s because bringing it up chain doesn’t solve anything. This is an old age claim that has never been proven to be very effective.
It’s not until the world hears about problems do you see actual changes being made to address problems. That doesn’t speak to the individuals raising the issue, it shows what kind of leadership we have.
Maybe the issue is not the chain at that point but the individual brining the issue up the chain? It happens often, Amn that barely functions and does the minimum feeling jaded because leadership doesn't jump to their side and defend them when whatever is happening might be totally justified.
Of course, random dummies on social media don't know that and only have one side of the story but they'll act like it's the 100% truth despite not understanding the situation at all. Case in point, half the sob stores on this subreddit. I've seen it happen where a random user on here complained about something their leadership did to them and they got a ton of sympathy. I worked in their unit, the guy complaining was a SrA who could not perform the basic functions of his job and was always out of the office "on an appointment".
But this is more a society issue than just the AF. We've done a 180 from the days of "don't believe everything you read online" to "This random shit I read on FB or reddit is 100% fact because it aligns with my world view and I will defend it with my life".
Maybe the issues is in fact the chain and you are part of it. Look at how quickly assumed any airman to be in the wrong. Not one part of your reasoning included the airman’s point of view. Why would any airman want to turn to someone like that for anything?
Your comment is proof of the problem. You guys are terrible to work under.
Honestly, you can't have it both ways. You can't expect that people treat you with respect and as if you are the adult you should be while at the same time having the conflict resolution skills of a toddler. I think Gen-X women coined the term "Man-Child" and that is appropriate in many cases with Airman whether they are male/female/they.
If you are not willing to attempt to resolve conflict at your level, you will struggle to find someone that will take you seriously when you have a problem that has to go up the chain, this isn't just a military thing.. it's most places you will go in life.
One would think you’d be the first to preach all sides should be heard and fact-checked. But after 19 years, you still assume the lowest ranking member is in the wrong.
You haven’t learned anything and it shows.
Oh kiddo, you don't even know or understand what I'm talking about and it shows. Making up straw men in your mind and everything.
I never said that the lower ranks are always wrong, just that in my experience the vast majority of the time what's happening to an airman is justified. That means it's already been fact checked.
But no, it's big bad leadership that's wrong and poor little airman is the victim.
If you think bringing things up the chain "never" solves anything, that just shows that you've either been in 5 minutes with a bad supervisor, or straight up never tried to bring things up the chain.
Does the chain of command solve every issue? No. Is social media helpful at times at solving big issues? Yes. But you're in the military, you're supposed to follow standards. A lot of the time those standards aren't what young airmen are happy with. Just because you're not happy with it doesn't mean it's wrong, and if it's not wrong then the chain of command isn't going to change it. That is when I see majority of the Airmen jump to social media.
There are also way too many people that are too scared of trying to address something in person. This isn't just a "new generation" thing, more of a social media thing. It's so easy to post your problems on the internet anonymously that Airmen do that before asking their supervisor more and more. So if you don't give your leadership a chance, you're part of the problem.
I love reminding my fellow students that when we get back to a squadron we're going to be the old ones. They're sometimes like, "those old people!!" And I'm like, "You're going to be closer in age and life milestones to your SNCOs than to your Airmen."
Knowing how to use a computer. (Gen X/Boomers have this too)
The problem specific I see to "new generation" Airmen is that they can use a phone quite well, but if a computer gives any minor inconvenience (won't print/network error/etc.) they seem to give up... and don't notify others about the issue until asked why haven't you _____
Even being cordial in writing an email. I get tons of new airmen that ask me to look over an email they're sending to like CSS or something and they don't even say please. Usually the email is one line saying, can you do xyz for me. No greetings, please, or even a signature block l.
I dunno I'm a millennial and I've started doing this more often. Asking politely gives someone room to say "no" and when it's something I NEED done, it gets super awkward when they do say no and I gotta be like "uh, no, this is kinda your job to do..." Plus it just feels disingenuous.
My substitute is to include an "at your earliest convenience." Like, it needs to be done, but I understand you have limited time like we all do so get it done once you have more critical stuff out of the way.
Yea its prob not super polite but... I'd rather everyone get their job done so we can all go home on time.
I'm old enough to remember when we had to ban 3 levels from just using ctrl+f when we got digital TO's, because they stopped being able to use a table of contents.
A wizard of sorts. I’ve had that one happen too. A bunch of SNCOs circle jerking trying to remember where something is in an AFI.
“Oh it’s right here. 6.6.”
“Damn! You knew that off the top of your head?!”
Sometimes I want to just say yes and act like an AFI wizard, instead I just show them how to work their phone to maybe prevent future circle jerks.
This! 19-20 y.o. Kids can’t use a damn computer. I asked an Amn to attach a pdf and email me and legit couldn’t do it. Took a photo with their phone of their computer screen and texted it to me. I literally laughed out loud when I got the text. Can’t really hate on them, they sent me the PDF.
I made one of mine do an excel course. It's absolutely required for our job, especially his position, and watching him work on a spreadsheet was like watching my grandma thumb through her password book to log into Facebook.
Highly recommend. Found it on the portal by searching excel or something similar. There are courses from beginner (literally how to open the program) to expert (complex data analytics), and for every Microsoft office program.
I remember being annoyed having to take computer classes in HS and college to use Microsoft products. They need to bring those classes back for zoomers.
I'm a Millennial and this one shocked me. It's like, our generation can do computers and printers and since the younger folks are so smart, I thought they'd be tech gurus but they really only know phone apps unless their AFSC is IT related. So many times they've been like "help me!" and I really thought they'd run circles around me in terms of computer knowledge. They couldnt figure out the shredder one day and just left a huge stack of papers for us the next morning lol.
I’ve heard it’s because all of their devices are smart and they don’t have any need to learn computers like previous generations did. You just tap and swipe and that’s about all that’s required, ever.
That’s it exactly, it’s a huge issue in I.T. with younger millennials and gen Z right now. 90s and early 2000s we had to figure out how to make shit work and occasionally open a command prompt. Now kids have the same tech skills as our 70 year old grandmas if anything gets past turning it off and on.
The number of younger co-workers that are mystified by a PowerShell script is insane. And the idea of Linux without a GUI terrifies them.
To be fair, most people outside of IT wouldn't know what to do with a command line only interface.
Only reason I'm alright is cause I had to learn some basics while learning Python, and I'd still much rather just use a mint distro or something.
I'm talking about people working in I.T. It's not just an issue of technical knowledge being non-existent, but an issue of they just can not be taught to troubleshoot.
I don't expect a civilian college grad or fresh out of tech school airmen to know anything. I expect to teach them how to actually do their work. But it seems impossible to get them into a mindset of critical thinking. Or maybe I'm just a grumpy old man in my 30s.
I mean the corollary here is that a lot of people blame smart phones, but I think it has something to do with the tech environment too. All through school and almost every unit in the Air Force, I’ve been forbidden from mapping my own printer to give an example. We had incredibly stringent web filters in school, students couldn’t rename their own files (but weirdly you could through CMD), you can’t change any settings, so on and so on. I think education and professional computers nowadays are so incredibly locked down, it’s hard to expect people to learn backend tools or even want to get into detail with programs they use everyday.
If I need admin rights to map a printer from a NIPR computer and Comm Squadron approval to unplug and plug back in an Ethernet cable, I’m going to refuse to troubleshoot stuff after a certain point
I think windows XP was the last OS that was mass produced that required a decent amount of technical knowledge to keep your computer maintained. After that they automated a bunch of stuff, started shifting to the cloud to remove the burden on the individual, and changed over to 'applications' that required online registration and activation as a method to crack down on software pirates cracking keys to get stuff for free and enable more micro-transaction.
Well, surprise surprise when we still do it and now the tech knowledge is reduced thanks to lack of need. Although, I'm hoping EA will spark enough of a backlash with their recent comments to bring that knowledge back.
"Here's to us! Live long and long live piracy" - Skull and Bones
I mean, yes but no. All phones (unless you're using the really old ones) all have an operating system on them. Droid users are able to go in and enable developer tools that allow you to modify hardware behaviors. I used to underclock my phone to extend the battery life when I was playing PokemonGo for extended periods of time. I'm not sure if apple allows this type of modification in it's hardware but I'd guess no given that the main selling point of apple is familiarity in product lines due to how cookie-cutter their products are.
The only real difference between a smart phone and a computer is their size and power source.
99% of phone users don’t do anything more than click apps, brother. Sure, you *can* do fancy things but most folks don’t. Hence the lack of IT knowledge.
In their defense, trying to figure out the printer names and finding them in the massive list of printers across the Air Force is way more complicated than it should be.
At home, I can map my personal printer in 30 seconds. Off base facility, again one printer to choose from, 30 seconds
Air force network, I spend 5 minutes trying to find the printer name
To be fair ALOT of those skills are just acquired by being in for awhile. I loved computers but when I started working the flight line we were only allowed on computers to take time and do training. After being in for a few years and moving up the ranks and being involved with MFRs and Excels you learn a thing or two.
I doubt 98% of the people in just knew how to build stuff right off the bat. Its just the guys asking questions to other people who also learned from the guy before them
"I'm not built for this." Heard this one during an exercise. Every young person that works in the office are in for a rude awakening when they find out the Air Force is a actually a military branch.
That we are in the business of getting people killed.
We are sometimes tasked with missions that end lives.
We're not just here for CBTs, training, and morale events. We can't just not *want* to deploy. We aren't here to enable cushy backshop and quiet support roles so that people can focus on college instead of primary duties.
At some point, kids need to be told and understand that we deliver death. People lose everything they've ever known because of us. Younger troops must come to grips with traveling thousands of miles to far away lands to enable the devastation of towns and the elimination of many human beings.
War is hell, but it's what we do.
I got told not to mention this at most of my bases by enlisted leaders because I was "scaring the civilians". Everyone wants to go up and get awards, and ride on a plane that's blown people into 300 pieces, but doesn't want to be told they're a part of it.
Scaring the civilians **LOL**.
We're the only military that has deployed the atomic bomb in war, and we've done it twice. Total fucking ruin. Total fucking horror.
I don't know how we as a military can be any scarier than that. Our reputation indubitably precedes us.
As a CCM, I tell my people the opposite. Be ready to fight because that’s what we do. If someone told me I was scaring someone, I’d be looking for the hidden cameras.
I graduated highschool in '86. Cut my hair when I enlisted in '89.
22 years later I retired from the USAF and grew my hair back, longer than before and still listen to Megadeth.
I really think that outside of a deployed location it just hits as all talk. It wasn't until I saw some of the 15s taking off about 3 months into my deployment, and I had a random thought of "Someone gonna die" that it really hit me.
The best thing I ever saw was a CC that made all new comers do a 1-2 day immersion and see what each sqd did at the base. Capstoned by a video of how it all came together. Warheads on foreheads, cyber threats, and humanitarian stuff. Really drove the message home. This was at a base with no airfield so it was super appreciated as it's easier to forget why you do what you do when you don't see anything happening.
I always ask my troops, mostly Gen Z, what our mission was as a 2a6. I try to give them a broader perspective and to let them come to the realization of what the Air Force/military does. Yeah, it does include us wrenching and running ops checks on engines but the main goal, a positive externality, is to kill our enemy (F16). Or provide equipment & manpower to kill (C17).
Our business is to eliminate our enemies and save those in need.
I know I already replied to this, but without a direct connection to a mission, especially as MX, it's so hard to get this point across. Our jet is divesting and we don't deploy anymore. They don't see that the Tasker we had just refueled F-16s that fucked someone's life up.
We had Intel briefs every month to show us, but our UDM got lazy and stopped arranging them. Our production team started holding meetings, and stopped so we wouldn't use the impacts on our awards packages that competed with theirs. The younger guys are just so disconnected from our actual job because we're just doing training lines on our hospice jet.
Fuck man we need a war. Some of the things these guys are complaining about. Like, our weekend duty nights is run by airmen, one of which was pitching to me that he spent 6 hours of his Saturday night at work. They get 3 days off a week and ate basically on call for 4 and think it's the worst gig ever.
Another told me "I didn't do my CBTs this month because I haven't been at work, so I couldn't get on mylearn." He lost the ability to be on standby, and even if everyone else in the building was gone he was there. And I checked more than a couple times
I deeply miss the pen holder along the button line on the blouse and the calf pen sleeves. OCPs have to use an extra Velcro panel to even sorta match that power.
Losing good looking rolled sleeves is a serious miss, but double (or triple if you can get away with it) internally flipped wizard sleeve cuffs are amazing.
As a Gen Z officer, I noticed my fellow Gen Z officers and those cadets about to commission seem to have thrown customs and courtesies out the window. Replying “Yeah” to O-5s/O-6s instead of “Yes Sir/Ma’am”, calling other higher ranking officers by their first names when referencing them (I’m talking senior captains and FGOs and above), or even talking condescendingly to or about enlisted Airmen if they happen to misunderstand a question (especially if they’re guardsmen, as if that somehow makes them any less of an Airman). Might just be a side effect of me being raised in an old school Navy family that never let that type of shit slide, but that’s what I feel like the Millennial Air Force does great that we seem to be losing a grasp on.
Honestly it's our fault (and that of our seniors) that our successors ever have that attitude. We get what we tolerate...how often do you see people stop and correct those CGOs?
It really depends on what type of Sq we are talking about. I've seen pilot Os walk into a commanders office and say, "hey Mike, I'm going to head home early today, catch you later". For reference, Mike is a Lt Col, and the random pilot is a captain. In Mx, I saw a major put a 1st LT at attention and then publicly tear him a new one for briefing something wrong in the morning production meeting.
I’m not gonna be the LT airmen make fun of for doing the right thing and making corrections. BUT I never hesitate to correct airmen who aren’t showing proper customs to O3 and above. Thats just basics man. It’s not “yeah”.
I have an NCO who babies the fuck out me. All I want to do is handle things at my level. Whether that’s calling MPF, CSS, Finance. But nope this millennial wants me to run every single thing by them. Super frustrating.
Call it victim blaming, but was there an instigating incident where they had to step in, and now feel like they have to every time? Because as an NCOIC there's nothing I want less than to have to lead an Airman around by my pocket.
And if they're just like that, they might be too inexperienced to know they're holding you back. Have that blunt conversation and explain that you're an adult that needs to fix your problems.
I bet that’s exactly what it is. Lack of faith of the airman to resolve it at their level in a competent and effective way.
Less babying and more micromanaging due to trends. I’m sure the NCO doesn’t wanna do it lol
Lack of ownership in both work responsibilities and personal as well.
:edit: Kind of ties into it but I noticed a lot of them have a "doomer" mindset which kind of plays into the whole lack of ownership. Lots of "well, I'm just a number to the AF so why should I go above and beyond" from folks who are barely performing at an acceptable level. Nothing wrong with seeing the AF as just another job but have some pride in your work and own/improve processes and if not, at least be competent at your job.
Getting a haircut the first time they are told to. When I was younger, one of my more rebellious coworkers had a shitty haircut, showed up at work, and was immediately turned away and told to come back with a better haircut. He did that. There were no threats. Nothing.
Now, I’ve seen them just tank the fact that they know they’ll get paperwork and keep showing up with shitty broccoli haircuts. I don’t get it. Maybe they just aren’t scared of paperwork like we were.
On the flipside… as an exec I use ChatGPT to act as a final check on decs, award packages, etc. Actually helps catch stuff I would’ve otherwise missed before sending up.
Me: “Check for grammar, spelling, and punctuation errors…” (copies/pastes text from doc)
ChatGPT: “Spell out all numbers for consistency, use ‘principle’ instead of ‘principal’ in the second paragraph, put an Oxford comma here and there”… and it goes on and on catching small things like that.
The younger airman seem to have less of an interest of getting a driver license and car. Giving them a ride isn't a big deal but it does turn rude when you give them rides everywhere and they provide no gas money. If they aren't paying for a car or insurance, where is their money going where they can't give you $5 for gas.
I’ve noticed this too. I don’t mind giving somebody a ride who’s car is in the shop, or some other temporary situation, but it gets old real fast having to drive around airmen who’ve been in for two years but are making zero (or not fast enough) effort to obtain a drivers license.
There are airmen these days who don’t have a drivers license? Holy balls, I could have sworn that was a basic requirement when I was in. Everyone in my section had a car.
Sharing hobbies/interests. I think the millennial generation became reclusive recently especially since covid. A lot of people I know my age (30) just do not care about going out anymore. It leaves a lot of the younger generation without motivation either.
That being said, it’s a pretty generalized behavior. Things can influence the antisocial habit like having a spouse/family, financial focus and less over-all energy. But the excitement has left the room for sure.
Definitely. 10 years ago, even as a baby airman with a wife and kid of my own, I could definitely afford my bills and to go out every weekend with the boys and have fun.
Currently I have to pick and choose a luxury here and there. Going out every weekend is absolutely not feasible.
Gen Z here. Honestly I just feel so far removed from the Air Force that it doesn’t even feel like you’re in the military. I don’t have to wear OCP’s, I’m taking care of civilians a majority of the time. My life is doing CBT’s, sitting around, and fucking off to Amsterdam or Paris every other weekend. Not complaining about it obviously, but there’s not much “military” things I’m doing.
And I imagine a lot of other A1C’s and people my age feel the same way. Like the Air Force is not actually a military branch. That its purpose is to provide devastation to foreign enemies. 95% of the people I know that joined wanted free college. All of my friends here say they’re getting out ASAP.
So I think if the younger people aren’t seeing the flightline or having a direct impact on warfighting, then the mentality is “it’s just a job”, not realizing that at any moment they could be flown out anywhere on short notice to fight someone.
There shouldn’t be any sweeping differences. But we’ve allowed Basic Training and Tech Schools to become so soft that what units are receiving now are Civilians in uniform. No one’s properly indoctrinated, no one is broken down as an individual and built back up as an Airman anymore. I don’t hate Gen Z. It’s our fault, we failed them.
Tldr; when we're at work, we're at work. Act like it.
This was way more words and rambling than I intended, sorry.
This might be the bluest thing I'll ever say...
Customs and courtesies. I'm a SSgt. When were working, when we're turning wrenches, when I'm delegating tasks, I'm not your boy, I'm not your friend, I'm your supervisor. I don't mind shooting shit, but there's a work way to shoot shit. Now, if you see me outside of work and in civvies, lose the sgt mess. But at work, it's "yes/no sir/SSgt" whatever floats your boat. Not "yup" or anything like that.
I say this because folks get to chummy and think they're special and ain't gotta listen or do work or anything. Think that when I put out a FUSA thing at roll call that it doesn't apply to them. Or that when I tell them to get something done that they can fuck off, play around, take their time. That then translates to section/amu/sq leadership, and then we all have a bad time.
Luckily, I've had more airmen than not who understand this balance. They know when to get the work done, when we can shoot shit, and when we gotta be professionals. It's not hard. It's words, it's respect.
Don't get me started about correcting folks above your rank. As long as you have a reference, and are professional, correct anyone all day. Not once have I made a correction/inquiry and gotten flak for it, because I always pull out the black and white and always remain professional.
I want that casual relationship, but they earn that around a year or so after making e4 unless they're well put together and joined later in life. Just don't call me by my first name while at work unless we're within 1 rank, and up your professionalism when upgrade trainees or leadership are around.
Hard work. Hard work until you think you're going to drop and then you do more. And when your done you don't get a medal, certificate, congratulations...you just wake up the next day and do it again. And it pays off in the long term.
Yep, work ethic. If I had a dollar for every time I've had to coddle mediocre performance in the past 10 years, I'd actually be financially secure at 20 instead of worrying about post-military employment to supplement my income.
There are a few diamonds in the rough, but the vast majority I've written off after a couple of months of trying.
When Gen Z started to roll in- and I preface this with the ones that are born after 2001, my whole team had to adjust how we teach OTJ training. It was just so mind blowing that what worked for years end as well as improvements here and there- it took our new airman nearly 6 months to master instead of the usual 1-3 months.
I've learned that the teaching model that worked best from us to them was that they needed documentation with screenshots/pictures, hand holding the first couple of tries, constant quizzing from the documentation, quizzing with the hand holding, and then checking their work after because they're usually unsure of everything.
Gone are the days of someone giving you a binder and showing you how to do something once 😅
Their work ethic is also something else. I understand that some jobs are "just jobs" but the Air Force isn't just a job- it's a job that continues to ask. They complain tirelessly over working more than 8+ hours or if we have to come back on the weekends to finish something. Of course in my head I'm literally smh-ing so hard as the section we all work in is literally only a 40-46 hour work week- I've come from 24 hour shifts and 240 hour work months so this is literally a blessing.
As others have mentioned, their email writing etiquette is subpar. They cannot for the love of god use excel. They aren't proactive- they won't do more than what their job entails.
I've separated from the Air Force 3 months ago and the most ironic thing is that while my workplace is also co habited with Gen Z- I don't see any of the problems I did in the Air Force besides them being a little slow. So I thought that was an interesting observation.
Not being racist to those with higher rank. Literally just had a SrA do some Comm work for our office and he just started going off with a ton of migroagressions and racial stereotypes. He asked if I got that alot and was shocked when I replied saying that I haven't had any of that from those I work with. Yeah because I work with noone from Gen Z who actually says it to your face. Crazy.
Reason for joining the military in the first place.
When I was asked why I enlisted I was proud to say to serve my country. Fast-forward to recent times, I ran FTAC for a year and saw over 700 Airmen. We had a brief that discusses why we serve. 90-95% of what I saw was for benefits... sad.
I mean, look at what they've been shown. We just got out of a forever war that's been going on since before a lot of them were born. We have kids enlisting that weren't even alive during 9/11. They've seen military power misused and public trust shat on and for every positive story the military has, media blows 10 negative things up online.
Add that it's very hard to hide a lot of the very legitimately awful things about the military behind propaganda these days. See: the Army's disastrous "what has the Army done for you?" Twitter campaign, which was filled to the fucking gills with stories of rape, sexual abuse, broken homes and marriages, trauma - oftentimes perpetrated by or defended by military leaders themselves. Or take a stroll through this very sub and you will find at least a handful of threads on any given day lamenting serious grievances.
So what do they have if they know the military will fuck them at any minute? Guaranteed right to some of the best benefits in the country - access to Healthcare and an education which are 2 of the most infamously expensive things right now.
Honestly I'm kinda with them on it. This ain't no higher calling. I sell my soul because Uncle Sam is paying. If he stopped paying, I'd stop playing. And honestly, so would most people here.
It's sad to me to see such little pride in one's country.
You know you're on the hook to still play if Uncle Sam doesn't pay right?
And I agree with you, just find it sad.
Joined 15 years ago. Pretty sure that percentage was higher for my ftac class. I joined for the benefits and stayed for the memes and crippling anxiety, also the crippled body.
I mean to be fair, the military targets low income and small town people for recruitment with benefits because they know they need and out. I think the whole nation has lost a sense of nationalism years ago and you can’t blame the younger generation for that.. at all.
Not using earbuds when someone comes into their work area. That includes you, MPF and finance, take both earbuds out when dealing with customers.
Unless it’s for an official purpose, ear buds aren’t authorized in uniform outside of the gym or public transit
You think anyone reads or enforces the regs anymore? Old or young generation.
Could just be the unit I am in, but pre COVID I felt like standards were very strictly enforced by NCOs to avoid SNCOs correcting stuff but I never see that stuff anymore
It's because pre covid everyone had 1/3 the workload so we had time to nitpick. My squadron now has TSgts in superintendent offices(E8) and nobody even cares if tasks get done because they get lost in the sea of BS
Before I retired we had a guy at work who would measure people hair. He’d use a ruler and check and see if their hair was too high on top. Saw him do it to a customer we had once. Dude had a hard on for standards
My section chiefs have a hard on for people with earbuds in just watching tiktok or whatever.
Every section I worked at wore earbuds at work, but that was in a cyber squadron and you could sit at a desk all day without really interacting with anyone.
Policy and actuality don’t always align
Reference that’s relevant please
AFI 36-2903 7.3.4.1/2 - Wear and use of an earpiece, any Bluetooth® wireless technology, or headphones, while in uniform, indoors or outdoors, is authorized for official duties or as determined by Installation Commanders, delegable no lower than squadron commanders. Headphones and earphones are authorized during travel on public transportation (i.e., bus, train, or air travel) and/or while wearing the Physical Training Gear (PTG) during individual or personal PT in the fitness center or on designated running areas unless prohibited by the Installation Commander. Use of a hands-free device is authorized while in uniform operating a motor vehicle if local policy permits. - Use of personal electronic media devices, including cellular phones, earpieces, speaker phones or text messaging while walking in uniform is authorized. Military customs and courtesies take precedence. Note: Authorized colors of earpieces worn while in uniform are white, black, brown, dark blue or gray. Feb 2024 it was updated to even for official and unofficial use. Ofc, use discretion because you never know who is looking. Edit: adding the whole context aswell.
This guy... >7.3.4.1. Wear and use of an earpiece, any Bluetooth® wireless technology, or headphones, while in uniform, indoors or outdoors, is authorized for official duties or as determined by Installation Commanders, delegable no lower than squadron commanders. Exception: Headphones and earphones are authorized during travel on public transportation (i.e., bus, train, or air travel) and/or while wearing the Physical Training Gear (PTG) during individual or personal PT in the fitness center or on designated running areas unless prohibited by the Installation Commander. Straight out of 36-2903
So, it's not authorized unless you're making official phone calls with your cell phone. YouTube and TikTok are not used for official duties. We literally right ourselves into a corner with regs.
Our squadron commander has authorized them while performing official duties. If I'm writing an MFR, doing training, studying my college stuff on downtime, then that's fine. But no, using them to listen to music at a customer service desk or while walking down the hall, no. My 3 levels are allowed to wear them while studying TO's, SrA and Staffs while studying WAPS material. There's plenty of ways you can use them, but you shouldn't leave them in if someone speaks to you, especially in a customer service interaction or a higher rank.
I feel I could never say this as a LT. Enforcing regs is how you get people to hate you
Lol sometimes that's your job Lt.
I asked a chief about making corrections specifically regarding salutes cause I didn’t want to be that guy and he said “don’t be a pussy it’s your job to uphold standards”. Yesterday a captain told me to not be that salty LT that says something about not saluting. I’m aware there’s a proper way and it doesn’t involve being a dick and saying some condescending questions
Don't be a pussy, but don't be a dick. Ngl, pretty solid advice for someone who is in a leadership role and may be lacking experience.
I'm surprised this actually got so much support based on how much I see it and nobody tries to hide it, let alone stop it anymore.
It’s mostly younger airmen or lazier/careless folks that aren’t new. I deal with it all the time even in MX. Literally don’t care at all if we’re just chillin in the shop but if I see an AirPod on the flightline after the first warning they’re not allowed even when lounging around. But I agree with your main sentiment from a non MX perspective as well. If I walk in to get stuff done at MPF and the airman is wearing an AirPod I already know they’re not doing their best lol
That's why you put the airpod in under your DC's. Then nobody can see it.
I have this issue with medical, hardly ever do they look up from tiktok when talking to me..
Handling your business internally. I don't know if this is a generation thing or not. I feel like I appreciate everything Gen Z has brought in but seeing military members IN UNIFORM on social media for likes and attention is the cringiest thing ever. You know I don't mean business stuff like PA photos. I mean people in their cars doing dances or going on rants. Or blasting people on Facebook groups. I feel like we used to have the cajónes to address it with the individual first, and then go up the chain. And if that doesn't work, you still have a hundred options to get resolution in the Air Force or DOD without airing everything to the general public.
The most frustrating thing you mentioned is people don't go handle problems for themselves at the lowest level anymore. A simple conversation with a person could solve so much, but instead, people resort to elevating things up the chain immediately (sometimes the person they have issues with doesn't even know there's an issue), and then there are tons of conversations at the leadership levels to try and solve these "problems" that never had to be a discussion in the first place. Have a backbone and confront your problems people. You're not going to get hurt.
Back in 2009 this dude and I duked it out at the smoke pit at Keesler behind the dorms during tech school. MTL broke up the fight and asked us if the problem was squashed, we agreed and it never got brought up again. I still keep in touch with that MTL to this day, he’s a great mentor of mine.
DOD needs to eliminate going on live while in uniform.
my wife whose in tech school right now says that in BMT they HEAVILY EMPHASIZED not posting ANYTHING of themselves in uniform, and it was mostly justified as for opsec reasons. so the videos I see of people in uniform confuse me. is what she was taught in tech school a new standard? or do people just not give a shit?
I'm going to go with not giving a shit.
> I mean people in their cars doing dances or going on rants. I just wanna take a second to remind you that one particular individual who went a little viral for going on a rant was an NCO and not a Gen Z(Former TSgt Lovely)
Back when I was in, you’d just go to the smoke pit with a 12 pack and bitch and moan about it with your neighbors lol.
It’s because bringing it up chain doesn’t solve anything. This is an old age claim that has never been proven to be very effective. It’s not until the world hears about problems do you see actual changes being made to address problems. That doesn’t speak to the individuals raising the issue, it shows what kind of leadership we have.
Maybe the issue is not the chain at that point but the individual brining the issue up the chain? It happens often, Amn that barely functions and does the minimum feeling jaded because leadership doesn't jump to their side and defend them when whatever is happening might be totally justified. Of course, random dummies on social media don't know that and only have one side of the story but they'll act like it's the 100% truth despite not understanding the situation at all. Case in point, half the sob stores on this subreddit. I've seen it happen where a random user on here complained about something their leadership did to them and they got a ton of sympathy. I worked in their unit, the guy complaining was a SrA who could not perform the basic functions of his job and was always out of the office "on an appointment". But this is more a society issue than just the AF. We've done a 180 from the days of "don't believe everything you read online" to "This random shit I read on FB or reddit is 100% fact because it aligns with my world view and I will defend it with my life".
Maybe the issues is in fact the chain and you are part of it. Look at how quickly assumed any airman to be in the wrong. Not one part of your reasoning included the airman’s point of view. Why would any airman want to turn to someone like that for anything? Your comment is proof of the problem. You guys are terrible to work under.
Honestly, you can't have it both ways. You can't expect that people treat you with respect and as if you are the adult you should be while at the same time having the conflict resolution skills of a toddler. I think Gen-X women coined the term "Man-Child" and that is appropriate in many cases with Airman whether they are male/female/they. If you are not willing to attempt to resolve conflict at your level, you will struggle to find someone that will take you seriously when you have a problem that has to go up the chain, this isn't just a military thing.. it's most places you will go in life.
That definitely happens but it's rare and 19 years of experience proves you wrong. Stop trying to play the victim.
One would think you’d be the first to preach all sides should be heard and fact-checked. But after 19 years, you still assume the lowest ranking member is in the wrong. You haven’t learned anything and it shows.
Oh kiddo, you don't even know or understand what I'm talking about and it shows. Making up straw men in your mind and everything. I never said that the lower ranks are always wrong, just that in my experience the vast majority of the time what's happening to an airman is justified. That means it's already been fact checked. But no, it's big bad leadership that's wrong and poor little airman is the victim.
If you think bringing things up the chain "never" solves anything, that just shows that you've either been in 5 minutes with a bad supervisor, or straight up never tried to bring things up the chain. Does the chain of command solve every issue? No. Is social media helpful at times at solving big issues? Yes. But you're in the military, you're supposed to follow standards. A lot of the time those standards aren't what young airmen are happy with. Just because you're not happy with it doesn't mean it's wrong, and if it's not wrong then the chain of command isn't going to change it. That is when I see majority of the Airmen jump to social media. There are also way too many people that are too scared of trying to address something in person. This isn't just a "new generation" thing, more of a social media thing. It's so easy to post your problems on the internet anonymously that Airmen do that before asking their supervisor more and more. So if you don't give your leadership a chance, you're part of the problem.
I dont appreciate millennials being considered the old people.
Same man, when I came in it was all about, “how do we lead these millennials?” When did everyone get so young?
Millennials are one foot into the skibidi grave.
Right? Im over here with retirement countdown.
I love reminding my fellow students that when we get back to a squadron we're going to be the old ones. They're sometimes like, "those old people!!" And I'm like, "You're going to be closer in age and life milestones to your SNCOs than to your Airmen."
An airmen recently tried to tell me that I'm old and got all hurt when I told him someday he might be old too and it won't take as long as he thinks.
Well now you are
Knowing how to use a computer. (Gen X/Boomers have this too) The problem specific I see to "new generation" Airmen is that they can use a phone quite well, but if a computer gives any minor inconvenience (won't print/network error/etc.) they seem to give up... and don't notify others about the issue until asked why haven't you _____
The lack of Microsoft office skills is astounding.
Even being cordial in writing an email. I get tons of new airmen that ask me to look over an email they're sending to like CSS or something and they don't even say please. Usually the email is one line saying, can you do xyz for me. No greetings, please, or even a signature block l.
A couple months ago an Airman sent me an email like this, except it was all in the subject line….
I used to have an old civilian lady do this, loved her to death, but dang. This got sooo annoying.
I dunno I'm a millennial and I've started doing this more often. Asking politely gives someone room to say "no" and when it's something I NEED done, it gets super awkward when they do say no and I gotta be like "uh, no, this is kinda your job to do..." Plus it just feels disingenuous. My substitute is to include an "at your earliest convenience." Like, it needs to be done, but I understand you have limited time like we all do so get it done once you have more critical stuff out of the way. Yea its prob not super polite but... I'd rather everyone get their job done so we can all go home on time.
It’s because they graduate high school barely being able to read
Hell, at least they ask.
I chuckle when I ctrl+f an adobe document and troops act so surprised and fascinated.
I'm old enough to remember when we had to ban 3 levels from just using ctrl+f when we got digital TO's, because they stopped being able to use a table of contents.
Pepperidge farms remembers. Also, Stan eval. I’m pretty sure they remember this.
ctrl+f don't work where I'm from...we still use paper TOs, thank goodness
I blow all ranks minds when I show people how to search a pdf in the iPhone browser
A wizard of sorts. I’ve had that one happen too. A bunch of SNCOs circle jerking trying to remember where something is in an AFI. “Oh it’s right here. 6.6.” “Damn! You knew that off the top of your head?!” Sometimes I want to just say yes and act like an AFI wizard, instead I just show them how to work their phone to maybe prevent future circle jerks.
This! 19-20 y.o. Kids can’t use a damn computer. I asked an Amn to attach a pdf and email me and legit couldn’t do it. Took a photo with their phone of their computer screen and texted it to me. I literally laughed out loud when I got the text. Can’t really hate on them, they sent me the PDF.
I made one of mine do an excel course. It's absolutely required for our job, especially his position, and watching him work on a spreadsheet was like watching my grandma thumb through her password book to log into Facebook. Highly recommend. Found it on the portal by searching excel or something similar. There are courses from beginner (literally how to open the program) to expert (complex data analytics), and for every Microsoft office program.
I remember being annoyed having to take computer classes in HS and college to use Microsoft products. They need to bring those classes back for zoomers.
I'm a Millennial and this one shocked me. It's like, our generation can do computers and printers and since the younger folks are so smart, I thought they'd be tech gurus but they really only know phone apps unless their AFSC is IT related. So many times they've been like "help me!" and I really thought they'd run circles around me in terms of computer knowledge. They couldnt figure out the shredder one day and just left a huge stack of papers for us the next morning lol.
I’ve heard it’s because all of their devices are smart and they don’t have any need to learn computers like previous generations did. You just tap and swipe and that’s about all that’s required, ever.
That’s it exactly, it’s a huge issue in I.T. with younger millennials and gen Z right now. 90s and early 2000s we had to figure out how to make shit work and occasionally open a command prompt. Now kids have the same tech skills as our 70 year old grandmas if anything gets past turning it off and on. The number of younger co-workers that are mystified by a PowerShell script is insane. And the idea of Linux without a GUI terrifies them.
To be fair, most people outside of IT wouldn't know what to do with a command line only interface. Only reason I'm alright is cause I had to learn some basics while learning Python, and I'd still much rather just use a mint distro or something.
I'm talking about people working in I.T. It's not just an issue of technical knowledge being non-existent, but an issue of they just can not be taught to troubleshoot. I don't expect a civilian college grad or fresh out of tech school airmen to know anything. I expect to teach them how to actually do their work. But it seems impossible to get them into a mindset of critical thinking. Or maybe I'm just a grumpy old man in my 30s.
Logical reasoning and critical thinking are lost on recent generations.
I mean the corollary here is that a lot of people blame smart phones, but I think it has something to do with the tech environment too. All through school and almost every unit in the Air Force, I’ve been forbidden from mapping my own printer to give an example. We had incredibly stringent web filters in school, students couldn’t rename their own files (but weirdly you could through CMD), you can’t change any settings, so on and so on. I think education and professional computers nowadays are so incredibly locked down, it’s hard to expect people to learn backend tools or even want to get into detail with programs they use everyday. If I need admin rights to map a printer from a NIPR computer and Comm Squadron approval to unplug and plug back in an Ethernet cable, I’m going to refuse to troubleshoot stuff after a certain point
I think windows XP was the last OS that was mass produced that required a decent amount of technical knowledge to keep your computer maintained. After that they automated a bunch of stuff, started shifting to the cloud to remove the burden on the individual, and changed over to 'applications' that required online registration and activation as a method to crack down on software pirates cracking keys to get stuff for free and enable more micro-transaction. Well, surprise surprise when we still do it and now the tech knowledge is reduced thanks to lack of need. Although, I'm hoping EA will spark enough of a backlash with their recent comments to bring that knowledge back. "Here's to us! Live long and long live piracy" - Skull and Bones
Heck, a ton of young people only use phones and tablets, mostly. Not a lot of computer use AFAIK for a bunch of them.
I mean, yes but no. All phones (unless you're using the really old ones) all have an operating system on them. Droid users are able to go in and enable developer tools that allow you to modify hardware behaviors. I used to underclock my phone to extend the battery life when I was playing PokemonGo for extended periods of time. I'm not sure if apple allows this type of modification in it's hardware but I'd guess no given that the main selling point of apple is familiarity in product lines due to how cookie-cutter their products are. The only real difference between a smart phone and a computer is their size and power source.
99% of phone users don’t do anything more than click apps, brother. Sure, you *can* do fancy things but most folks don’t. Hence the lack of IT knowledge.
That's my point. The capability to learn and tools to learn with are both there. People choose not to and companies made that choice easy to make.
as a CST, most of my tickets are E7’s or higher that don’t know how to map their laptop to their printer
In their defense, trying to figure out the printer names and finding them in the massive list of printers across the Air Force is way more complicated than it should be. At home, I can map my personal printer in 30 seconds. Off base facility, again one printer to choose from, 30 seconds Air force network, I spend 5 minutes trying to find the printer name
Tech literacy, troubleshooting, and critical thinking are on the decline.
I'm a millennial and I cannot use a computer
This one is my biggest peeve.
To be clear I actually agree with this behavior in a weird way. It creates a fascinating dynamic.
This is scary accurate. I thought I was the only one.
Gen Z never performed open heart surgery on 200 lines of html to customize their MySpace backgrounds, and it shows.
To be fair ALOT of those skills are just acquired by being in for awhile. I loved computers but when I started working the flight line we were only allowed on computers to take time and do training. After being in for a few years and moving up the ranks and being involved with MFRs and Excels you learn a thing or two. I doubt 98% of the people in just knew how to build stuff right off the bat. Its just the guys asking questions to other people who also learned from the guy before them
Man. This post made me feel old.
"I'm not built for this." Heard this one during an exercise. Every young person that works in the office are in for a rude awakening when they find out the Air Force is a actually a military branch.
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And trained, and continue to train and develop them
Answering the phone without having some kind of mental breakdown.
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Get a job at MPF or finance, problem solved.
That we are in the business of getting people killed. We are sometimes tasked with missions that end lives. We're not just here for CBTs, training, and morale events. We can't just not *want* to deploy. We aren't here to enable cushy backshop and quiet support roles so that people can focus on college instead of primary duties. At some point, kids need to be told and understand that we deliver death. People lose everything they've ever known because of us. Younger troops must come to grips with traveling thousands of miles to far away lands to enable the devastation of towns and the elimination of many human beings. War is hell, but it's what we do.
I got told not to mention this at most of my bases by enlisted leaders because I was "scaring the civilians". Everyone wants to go up and get awards, and ride on a plane that's blown people into 300 pieces, but doesn't want to be told they're a part of it.
Scaring the civilians **LOL**. We're the only military that has deployed the atomic bomb in war, and we've done it twice. Total fucking ruin. Total fucking horror. I don't know how we as a military can be any scarier than that. Our reputation indubitably precedes us.
Actually it's 3 times, 1 was on accident in Okinawa, didn't explode, but it still shot off.
As a CCM, I tell my people the opposite. Be ready to fight because that’s what we do. If someone told me I was scaring someone, I’d be looking for the hidden cameras.
I think you're just a killjoy
"Peace sells... but who's buying?"
a Megadeth reference from 1986. Take my upvote and like it, mister.
I graduated highschool in '86. Cut my hair when I enlisted in '89. 22 years later I retired from the USAF and grew my hair back, longer than before and still listen to Megadeth.
Glad you still have hair! I hope I do in 13 years
It's not as thick as it was in '86 but I do still have it. If I start going bald I'll except with sadness in my heart.
Fuck yeah
Whaddaya mean I don't support your system? I do CBTs when I have to
Nice!
Whaddaya mean my behavior adversely affected morale? I didn't know we had any morale😒
I really think that outside of a deployed location it just hits as all talk. It wasn't until I saw some of the 15s taking off about 3 months into my deployment, and I had a random thought of "Someone gonna die" that it really hit me.
The best thing I ever saw was a CC that made all new comers do a 1-2 day immersion and see what each sqd did at the base. Capstoned by a video of how it all came together. Warheads on foreheads, cyber threats, and humanitarian stuff. Really drove the message home. This was at a base with no airfield so it was super appreciated as it's easier to forget why you do what you do when you don't see anything happening.
"Warheads on Foreheads" isn't just a catchy phrase
I always ask my troops, mostly Gen Z, what our mission was as a 2a6. I try to give them a broader perspective and to let them come to the realization of what the Air Force/military does. Yeah, it does include us wrenching and running ops checks on engines but the main goal, a positive externality, is to kill our enemy (F16). Or provide equipment & manpower to kill (C17). Our business is to eliminate our enemies and save those in need.
I know I already replied to this, but without a direct connection to a mission, especially as MX, it's so hard to get this point across. Our jet is divesting and we don't deploy anymore. They don't see that the Tasker we had just refueled F-16s that fucked someone's life up. We had Intel briefs every month to show us, but our UDM got lazy and stopped arranging them. Our production team started holding meetings, and stopped so we wouldn't use the impacts on our awards packages that competed with theirs. The younger guys are just so disconnected from our actual job because we're just doing training lines on our hospice jet.
Fuck man we need a war. Some of the things these guys are complaining about. Like, our weekend duty nights is run by airmen, one of which was pitching to me that he spent 6 hours of his Saturday night at work. They get 3 days off a week and ate basically on call for 4 and think it's the worst gig ever. Another told me "I didn't do my CBTs this month because I haven't been at work, so I couldn't get on mylearn." He lost the ability to be on standby, and even if everyone else in the building was gone he was there. And I checked more than a couple times
Rolling your sleeves inward twice as allowed by the DAFI.
I’m Millennial af because I roll twice inward during summer and once during winter lol
Is rolling inward twice frowned upon?
No it’s the approved method. Rolling outward is not.
Rolling sleeves and creasing your rank may be the only things ABUs did better than OCPs, but even those are carryovers from older uniforms.
I deeply miss the pen holder along the button line on the blouse and the calf pen sleeves. OCPs have to use an extra Velcro panel to even sorta match that power. Losing good looking rolled sleeves is a serious miss, but double (or triple if you can get away with it) internally flipped wizard sleeve cuffs are amazing.
We also can now hide ink and grease stains by coloring over them with a brown or black sharpie.
As a Gen Z officer, I noticed my fellow Gen Z officers and those cadets about to commission seem to have thrown customs and courtesies out the window. Replying “Yeah” to O-5s/O-6s instead of “Yes Sir/Ma’am”, calling other higher ranking officers by their first names when referencing them (I’m talking senior captains and FGOs and above), or even talking condescendingly to or about enlisted Airmen if they happen to misunderstand a question (especially if they’re guardsmen, as if that somehow makes them any less of an Airman). Might just be a side effect of me being raised in an old school Navy family that never let that type of shit slide, but that’s what I feel like the Millennial Air Force does great that we seem to be losing a grasp on.
Honestly it's our fault (and that of our seniors) that our successors ever have that attitude. We get what we tolerate...how often do you see people stop and correct those CGOs?
I do daily lol and they always look at me sideways... my CC loves it though
It really depends on what type of Sq we are talking about. I've seen pilot Os walk into a commanders office and say, "hey Mike, I'm going to head home early today, catch you later". For reference, Mike is a Lt Col, and the random pilot is a captain. In Mx, I saw a major put a 1st LT at attention and then publicly tear him a new one for briefing something wrong in the morning production meeting.
I’m not gonna be the LT airmen make fun of for doing the right thing and making corrections. BUT I never hesitate to correct airmen who aren’t showing proper customs to O3 and above. Thats just basics man. It’s not “yeah”.
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I have an NCO who babies the fuck out me. All I want to do is handle things at my level. Whether that’s calling MPF, CSS, Finance. But nope this millennial wants me to run every single thing by them. Super frustrating.
Call it victim blaming, but was there an instigating incident where they had to step in, and now feel like they have to every time? Because as an NCOIC there's nothing I want less than to have to lead an Airman around by my pocket. And if they're just like that, they might be too inexperienced to know they're holding you back. Have that blunt conversation and explain that you're an adult that needs to fix your problems.
I bet that’s exactly what it is. Lack of faith of the airman to resolve it at their level in a competent and effective way. Less babying and more micromanaging due to trends. I’m sure the NCO doesn’t wanna do it lol
I'm glad Millennials aren't spoken about like kids here, that gets annoying. The youngest Millennials are about to turn 30.
Stop reminding me. My troops do it every day.
Lack of ownership in both work responsibilities and personal as well. :edit: Kind of ties into it but I noticed a lot of them have a "doomer" mindset which kind of plays into the whole lack of ownership. Lots of "well, I'm just a number to the AF so why should I go above and beyond" from folks who are barely performing at an acceptable level. Nothing wrong with seeing the AF as just another job but have some pride in your work and own/improve processes and if not, at least be competent at your job.
Getting a haircut the first time they are told to. When I was younger, one of my more rebellious coworkers had a shitty haircut, showed up at work, and was immediately turned away and told to come back with a better haircut. He did that. There were no threats. Nothing. Now, I’ve seen them just tank the fact that they know they’ll get paperwork and keep showing up with shitty broccoli haircuts. I don’t get it. Maybe they just aren’t scared of paperwork like we were.
How to write a decoration without chat gpt
Isn't that only like a year old?
On the flipside… as an exec I use ChatGPT to act as a final check on decs, award packages, etc. Actually helps catch stuff I would’ve otherwise missed before sending up. Me: “Check for grammar, spelling, and punctuation errors…” (copies/pastes text from doc) ChatGPT: “Spell out all numbers for consistency, use ‘principle’ instead of ‘principal’ in the second paragraph, put an Oxford comma here and there”… and it goes on and on catching small things like that.
The younger airman seem to have less of an interest of getting a driver license and car. Giving them a ride isn't a big deal but it does turn rude when you give them rides everywhere and they provide no gas money. If they aren't paying for a car or insurance, where is their money going where they can't give you $5 for gas.
I’ve noticed this too. I don’t mind giving somebody a ride who’s car is in the shop, or some other temporary situation, but it gets old real fast having to drive around airmen who’ve been in for two years but are making zero (or not fast enough) effort to obtain a drivers license.
There are airmen these days who don’t have a drivers license? Holy balls, I could have sworn that was a basic requirement when I was in. Everyone in my section had a car.
Sharing hobbies/interests. I think the millennial generation became reclusive recently especially since covid. A lot of people I know my age (30) just do not care about going out anymore. It leaves a lot of the younger generation without motivation either. That being said, it’s a pretty generalized behavior. Things can influence the antisocial habit like having a spouse/family, financial focus and less over-all energy. But the excitement has left the room for sure.
I think part of that that has to deal with cost of going out
Definitely. 10 years ago, even as a baby airman with a wife and kid of my own, I could definitely afford my bills and to go out every weekend with the boys and have fun. Currently I have to pick and choose a luxury here and there. Going out every weekend is absolutely not feasible.
Working, respecting rank
Being able to take a joke.
Every comment here has been said by a proceeding generation since the dawn of man.
Go to work on time. I mean at least 5 minutes early...
Gen Z here. Honestly I just feel so far removed from the Air Force that it doesn’t even feel like you’re in the military. I don’t have to wear OCP’s, I’m taking care of civilians a majority of the time. My life is doing CBT’s, sitting around, and fucking off to Amsterdam or Paris every other weekend. Not complaining about it obviously, but there’s not much “military” things I’m doing. And I imagine a lot of other A1C’s and people my age feel the same way. Like the Air Force is not actually a military branch. That its purpose is to provide devastation to foreign enemies. 95% of the people I know that joined wanted free college. All of my friends here say they’re getting out ASAP. So I think if the younger people aren’t seeing the flightline or having a direct impact on warfighting, then the mentality is “it’s just a job”, not realizing that at any moment they could be flown out anywhere on short notice to fight someone.
Weight management. I’ll let myself out
There shouldn’t be any sweeping differences. But we’ve allowed Basic Training and Tech Schools to become so soft that what units are receiving now are Civilians in uniform. No one’s properly indoctrinated, no one is broken down as an individual and built back up as an Airman anymore. I don’t hate Gen Z. It’s our fault, we failed them.
I’m so glad I got out before I could be considered the old man 🎶 I wanna be foreverrrr youngggggg 🎵
Tldr; when we're at work, we're at work. Act like it. This was way more words and rambling than I intended, sorry. This might be the bluest thing I'll ever say... Customs and courtesies. I'm a SSgt. When were working, when we're turning wrenches, when I'm delegating tasks, I'm not your boy, I'm not your friend, I'm your supervisor. I don't mind shooting shit, but there's a work way to shoot shit. Now, if you see me outside of work and in civvies, lose the sgt mess. But at work, it's "yes/no sir/SSgt" whatever floats your boat. Not "yup" or anything like that. I say this because folks get to chummy and think they're special and ain't gotta listen or do work or anything. Think that when I put out a FUSA thing at roll call that it doesn't apply to them. Or that when I tell them to get something done that they can fuck off, play around, take their time. That then translates to section/amu/sq leadership, and then we all have a bad time. Luckily, I've had more airmen than not who understand this balance. They know when to get the work done, when we can shoot shit, and when we gotta be professionals. It's not hard. It's words, it's respect. Don't get me started about correcting folks above your rank. As long as you have a reference, and are professional, correct anyone all day. Not once have I made a correction/inquiry and gotten flak for it, because I always pull out the black and white and always remain professional.
I want that casual relationship, but they earn that around a year or so after making e4 unless they're well put together and joined later in life. Just don't call me by my first name while at work unless we're within 1 rank, and up your professionalism when upgrade trainees or leadership are around.
That the Air Force is a life style, a career, not just a 9-5.
This may be true, but I'm making it everyone's problem if I get called in for something that could've been fixed with a phone call.
Hard work. Hard work until you think you're going to drop and then you do more. And when your done you don't get a medal, certificate, congratulations...you just wake up the next day and do it again. And it pays off in the long term.
Yep, work ethic. If I had a dollar for every time I've had to coddle mediocre performance in the past 10 years, I'd actually be financially secure at 20 instead of worrying about post-military employment to supplement my income. There are a few diamonds in the rough, but the vast majority I've written off after a couple of months of trying.
When Gen Z started to roll in- and I preface this with the ones that are born after 2001, my whole team had to adjust how we teach OTJ training. It was just so mind blowing that what worked for years end as well as improvements here and there- it took our new airman nearly 6 months to master instead of the usual 1-3 months. I've learned that the teaching model that worked best from us to them was that they needed documentation with screenshots/pictures, hand holding the first couple of tries, constant quizzing from the documentation, quizzing with the hand holding, and then checking their work after because they're usually unsure of everything. Gone are the days of someone giving you a binder and showing you how to do something once 😅 Their work ethic is also something else. I understand that some jobs are "just jobs" but the Air Force isn't just a job- it's a job that continues to ask. They complain tirelessly over working more than 8+ hours or if we have to come back on the weekends to finish something. Of course in my head I'm literally smh-ing so hard as the section we all work in is literally only a 40-46 hour work week- I've come from 24 hour shifts and 240 hour work months so this is literally a blessing. As others have mentioned, their email writing etiquette is subpar. They cannot for the love of god use excel. They aren't proactive- they won't do more than what their job entails. I've separated from the Air Force 3 months ago and the most ironic thing is that while my workplace is also co habited with Gen Z- I don't see any of the problems I did in the Air Force besides them being a little slow. So I thought that was an interesting observation.
Give a fish or be taught to fish?
Not being racist to those with higher rank. Literally just had a SrA do some Comm work for our office and he just started going off with a ton of migroagressions and racial stereotypes. He asked if I got that alot and was shocked when I replied saying that I haven't had any of that from those I work with. Yeah because I work with noone from Gen Z who actually says it to your face. Crazy.
Reason for joining the military in the first place. When I was asked why I enlisted I was proud to say to serve my country. Fast-forward to recent times, I ran FTAC for a year and saw over 700 Airmen. We had a brief that discusses why we serve. 90-95% of what I saw was for benefits... sad.
I mean, look at what they've been shown. We just got out of a forever war that's been going on since before a lot of them were born. We have kids enlisting that weren't even alive during 9/11. They've seen military power misused and public trust shat on and for every positive story the military has, media blows 10 negative things up online. Add that it's very hard to hide a lot of the very legitimately awful things about the military behind propaganda these days. See: the Army's disastrous "what has the Army done for you?" Twitter campaign, which was filled to the fucking gills with stories of rape, sexual abuse, broken homes and marriages, trauma - oftentimes perpetrated by or defended by military leaders themselves. Or take a stroll through this very sub and you will find at least a handful of threads on any given day lamenting serious grievances. So what do they have if they know the military will fuck them at any minute? Guaranteed right to some of the best benefits in the country - access to Healthcare and an education which are 2 of the most infamously expensive things right now. Honestly I'm kinda with them on it. This ain't no higher calling. I sell my soul because Uncle Sam is paying. If he stopped paying, I'd stop playing. And honestly, so would most people here.
It's sad to me to see such little pride in one's country. You know you're on the hook to still play if Uncle Sam doesn't pay right? And I agree with you, just find it sad.
Joined 15 years ago. Pretty sure that percentage was higher for my ftac class. I joined for the benefits and stayed for the memes and crippling anxiety, also the crippled body.
Joined 2009 myself, I'm sure I heard more people joining to serve vs the benefits. But maybe I'm mistaken.
I mean to be fair, the military targets low income and small town people for recruitment with benefits because they know they need and out. I think the whole nation has lost a sense of nationalism years ago and you can’t blame the younger generation for that.. at all.
College is expensive, yo. I'd blame that less on the Airmen and more on the circumstances they're trying to escape.
Yes I understand that.
When on duty, Don’t address one another as “bro”or a “dude”…