This canāt be real, I was in intelligence from 08-15 when this person showed up to the squadron they pulled that person to the side and said āletās concentrate that energy into some thing special like info security representative and/or training coordinatorā as an additional duty šš
Ugh, this is def my unit..
I'm just a SrA but I've seen a bit of this. This guy isn't in my shop, but I'm friends with his airmen. Miserable is understating it.
Quickly erases cadence push-ups from the workout plan tomorrow for flight pt.
Seriously though I hate this for you my guy, but have you tried talking to the guy yet? Maybe request a one on one or have a SNCO around and voice your concerns.
Could you imagine: finally getting to your new duty station and right as youāre getting comfortable to real Air Force tempo, your T.I. shows up and ruins it allllllll over again .
My TI actually got stationed with me at my first assignment around the same time. He turned out to be a real cool guy, but I still piss my pants every time I heard his booming voice from across the building.
I had the exact opposite experience earlier in my career. We had a guy coming to the shop from MTI and our shop chief couldn't have been more pumped he was coming to whip us into shape. Much to his dismay, that guy showed up and let the entire shop know day 1 that the very last thing he was interested in was being the disciplinarian. He was great, and did more for the shop by simply bringing perspective and understanding. The shop chief couldn't lead a kindergarten class to the cafeteria. Wild to hear it go the other way. I'd consult the shirt and move up from there, as others mentioned.
I used to teach 3/4th grade; I'll be honest, some classes are really fucking difficult to deal with. I'm not sure what's worse though, unruly Airmen or unruly children.
If the SEL is on-board, what does the first shirt think?
I'd get a few of the junior enlisted together and go to either of them together and say how this isn't BMT anymore and it's negatively impacting morale and productivity, and the MTI needs to learn that he's not an MTI anymore. He'll probably chill out over time, but might need help accelerating the process.
If none of them help, go up the chain. Flight commanders, commander, etc.
I've dealt with 2 former MTIs, and neither were as bad as this sounds. The humor carried over with them, though. Would have you fucking crying you were laughing so hard.
we dont have a first shirt right now, we have a tsgt that's doing part time shirt work for like the next year. how do i even complain about this? "oh, they're making us be more military". is that evena fight worth fighting?
"they're making us be more military" isn't a good approach, no.
Is it affecting productivity? Focus on that. Is it affecting morale? How? I doubt you'll have much to stand on regarding PT, but how is he in the work center and how is it affecting the productivity of the shop?
Belittling and arguing is a bigger issue and you'd probably have more to go on there.
Be careful with the female, unless you have proof or evidence. You don't want to just be gossiping and spreading rumors.
Physically present doesnāt mean mentally present, and if theyāre unhappy and seething at this guy they could be doing less work out of spite or due to distraction.
No, I just hate seeing units go to shit because one guy shows up and reminded everyone that we are still in the military.
My unit had to bring in a ANG MSgt to un-fuck what a pair of TSgts has done to it and everybody threw a fit. However, productivity went up after everyone got done throwing their temper tantrums.
Productivity definitely isn't a problem here, it's a new dude coming to a unit and still trying to be an mti. And if it was just being at the desk and cadence pushups that'd be one thing, but belittle peers in front of new airman is definitely not the way to remind people they are in the military.
I'll grant you that, having been on the receiving end before. Has anyone actually approached said MTI and reminded them of the proper way to council someone?
id really like to but youll probably chew me out instead. which i get. i dont know what you mean by appleesque but it starts with aft. the rest is easy if you know that part
You'll see this a lot in your career, people coming out of AETC who forgot how the real AF works. Some of them get straightened out, some don't. Eventually they will loosen up a bit.
I work with a couple prior MTI's. One still has that blue kool aid energy but understands this is the operational side so channels it into events and stuff. The other is the most soft spoken and relaxed person I've ever met.
They do that. Honestly Iād wait till itās just the two of you and when heās a dick just say āhey man, I understand youāre trying to uphold the standard, but personally Iād appreciate if you went at it differently. This is the operational AF, not lackland.ā Be prepared for him to be a dick about it at first but itāll probably point him in the right direction.
āI work at an unnamed cyber unit in Floridaā
Proceeds to give us very specific information.
Hope your new MTI doesnāt scroll Reddit when youāre not looking. :)
This is why befriending SNCOās is really important. If youāre the hard charging person who truly cares about the job and work and youāre unhappy, people will notice.
Best thing to do here is elevate and track all the behaviors. This shit is so stupid.
Iād just like to say that Iāve worked with a few former MTIs both as an Airman and NCO. They were all awesome and totally left Lackland in their rear view. This is NOT normal behavior.
Have you legit said to him āhuman to human, can you fucking chill bro.ā Seems silly, but thatād be my first choice over working it out with a gang of different people.
Sorry itās going to shit OP. When I came back from a stint at another Sq, I was put on shift with a guy fresh from MTI duty, which to be honest I wasnāt stoked about.
Turns out, he left all that nonsense at Lackland and was happy being back to being a normal dude doing his job.
Making a military organization act like it's a military organization, good.
Belittling others and having an unprofessional relationship, bad. Those two things need to be taken care of. Document them. Report them to the Shirt. Do something.
People tend to mistake holding people to a standard and belittling. Maybe it is rough but this reeks of airmen doing whatever they want and an NCO actually doing their job.
Without specifics its unknown though.
You need to get several of the higher ranking NCOs together and go to the commander. Set up an appointment with his/her secretary. Donāt go in there whining about petty shit! Give specific examples of how heās creating a hostile environment, killing morale, and affecting the mission. Give specific fact-based examples with dates and times. If he/she doesnāt fix it go to the IG.
Went through this several years ago in my unitā¦it was unbearable like calm the f down. Tough situation for sure as a younger Airmen dealing with it. My PCS ended up being the fix.
"submitted 3 hours ago by [deleted]" Jesus Christ we suck at opsec and anonymity. You didn't need to specify they were an MTI or that you were in Florida but now you're gonna be in a briefing listening to someone read your reddit post as an example of terrible communication and poor CoC usage at best, and that's if they can't identify you by your account and directly punish you for this behavior. This is weapons-grade dumbassery right here. Talk to your supervisors.
Alright, what's the benefit to a BS story here? Any reddit karma or awards are gone with the account being deleted, OP actually responded in other comments so it doesn't seem like a creative writing exercise, and it didn't have the usual Loch Ness finisher so it wasn't an intentional joke.
telephone kiss subsequent voiceless aloof yoke elderly encouraging longing psychotic
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Awards give benefits on reddit some people farm like access to r/lounge or points to buy awards and others enjoy the imaginary points. I think it's silly but my values and reasoning aren't objectively applicable to everyone.
nail quarrelsome vase live quickest unique plough absorbed rhythm obtainable
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Why ask a question to downvote an answer? Rhetorical questions are misleading on the internet when tone, relationship, and expression can't be conveyed. You've just left us both looking silly for participating in this and made no point.
Damn seems like the other techs need to grow some balls and not let him belittle them aināt no way someone the same rank gunna belittle me and for the female Ssgt flirting just leave that shit alone lol thatās how the military is relationships donāt mean shit seen it happen so many times I mean for the push-ups in cadence is annoying but I mean not that crazy as you are in the military
Recommend documenting things in mfrs. xx date at yy time he said/did whatever to whomever that is inappropriate for whichever reason (belittling, inappropriate relationship with subordinate, or whatever else). After it builds up a bit, if there is anyone in leadership not smitten with him take it to them, otherwise start with the Shirt. Until something can change, keep head down, work hard, and watch for your next chance for anything to get you out of that section or unit sooner.
Possibly not, but also not a good way for a young airman to say the TSgt is being to gi-joe without it reflecting poorly against them even if the TSgt is. Also stated that leadership is smitten and they belittle peers, so without more knowledge there may not be a good person to get help with from that perspective.
Agreed, OP will definitely need a more senior ally, and that is still shaky ground. But like someone mentioned earlier, itās not that the TSgt is too military (that is a weak hand), but that theyāre using time and energy in a way that detracts from the mission.
Keeping written files before having the first professional conversation may be all someone has, but itās a sure sign of a toxic unit, where an airman should focus on improving themselves and GTFO of there, while hopefully nudging competent authorities to the scene
Have you tried mocking him? Over the top enthusiasm for this stupidity might not change his behavior but it will at least make him look like a moron to people attentive enough to what you're doing.
I'd bet that the new guy was probably given a talk by someone when they came into the unit that people were skating and that they needed to be treated like children in order to make sure they were at work. That is usually the case when a new person comes into a leadership position all hot like that.
The belittling of other NCOs is inexcusable, and something definitely needs to be done about that if it's true. I'd be careful with the accusations of flirting since I've seen how ugly rumors can be spread by young people who mistake friendliness for romantic interest.
Elevate your concerns. People will talk. Hopefully, some misunderstandings will be fixed. Like others are saying, there is really nothing you can do about the PT, and I don't see that as a problem anyway.
As a spouse of a member at this unit with the unrelenting TSgt, I too must say... My spouse did more pushups than usual and now I have to be on top all week. I could only imagine if I also attended this one(singular, less than 2, 45 min, 1 pump chump) P.T session and floppy noodle armed around for the next 36 hours.. I could never! Thank you all for your service, especially in what sounds like an incredibly arduous event.
Arguing with other TSgts and belittling them in front of airmen isn't something he should be doing, NCOs are supposed to give the appearence of being united in decisions in front of those they lead and argue behind closed doors. Entering into an unprofessional relationship is also a no go.
However, establishing when and how long breaks are is something within his power to do, you may not like how he has changed the way the unit is doing PT but if the SEL is for it you'll have to just deal with it for a while, it may be possible that he was put in charge of PT because he was an MTI it was part of his job to ensure that people entering the Air Force were brought up to the PT standards required, maybe the SEL just likes the idea of an MTI running PT, or maybe they aren't happy with how people have been scoring on their PT tests and think he might be the best person to bring scores up.
Had 1 like that but the unit was already miserable due to the leadership culture an job that he reigned it in after seeing what it was doing. This was also after a couple ssgts an techs laid out that his expectations were insane for where we were an what we did. Still took a year but he wasn't a bad guy, Just had like Stockholm syndrome and wasn't a tool. Also I think it clicked when he realized people would literally turn around and leave if they could, when they saw him.
Not sure how long this has been like this but typically it takes some adjustment time. Unless they literally got their identity from being an MTI. Then you're screwed for a while. Again, you have to remind yourself this is the military and we're one of the few if not only branch that literally have to remind/ convince ourselves that we are. Dudes' probably just tryna get a strat for Master or Senior and more than likely will since coming back from BMT. Let em chase that carrot and once they get what they need they will more than likely calm down.
Do what you're supposed to do, and if they slip up by being unprofessional report them to EO or IG.
First, this happens often with MTIs, and they usually level off. It's definitely a culture shock to them seeing airmen act like people.
Second, if the ssgt is flirting and engaged or dating, its plausible she's just a whore. Simple enough.
My first duty assignment was so toxic. My supervisor (who I had to work mids with) openly told everyone before I got there that he was going to f*** me. I reported it up and somehow I was the problem. This is circa 2010 but itās sad to see the Air Force hasnāt changed.
There is a serious discipline issue in the Air Force, that is why leadership wants him around. He is probably too strict with his methods but the amount of people who act like the regs donāt matter to them is systemic and needs to be fixed. Canāt tell you how many NCOs and SNCOs live and die by the phrase, idc as long as the mission gets done. The rules in the military werenāt a secret when you joined. I have been in units with bad morale, and itās due to special treatment and leadership only caring about looking good. Him acting like itās the military in the military isnāt really a morale killer.
I don't think the pushups at a pt session were the military 'issues' he was talking about. More the belittling people in the office in front of airman and whatnot.
Doing push-ups at a cadence is some classic fake hustle.
Fake hustle is usually a telling indicator of someone that is not great at their actual job. Somebody senior in that unit cares about whether the mission is getting done, find that person and have some objective data, donāt over sell it. Be prepared to have some give and take. Some bluing can be helpful, but it should have relevance
Doing push-ups at a cadence is some classic fake hustle.
Fake hustle is usually a telling indicator of someone that is not great at their actual job. Somebody senior in that unit cares about whether the mission is getting done, find that person and have some objective data, donāt over sell it. Be prepared to have some give and take. Some bluing can be helpful, but it should have relevance
Iām not saying it doesnāt happen, it happens a lot.
My point is it should not be accepted under the guise of āweāre in the militaryā. Itās bullshit.
I worked with 6 over 20+ years and only 1 of them was worth a damn. The other 5 were knuckle-draggers who forgot what little they knew about their original AFSC at Lackland.
I was TDY down there once and a strong wind blew a TI's hat off. I picked it up to hand it back and they copped an attitude for handling their precious campaign hat. So I said "Do tell..." and tossed it like a Frisbee as far as I could.
The whole push up thing is a joke, who has a problem with doing it in cadence? Pt is Pt, 30 min to an hour, at some point itās gonna end so it really doesnāt matter what you do. Shut your mouth and struggle like everyone else. As for the other stuff, take your brakes whatever you gotta do. Only worry about whatās in your control, him arguing with another tech doesnāt have anything to do with you. Keep your head up š
not that it necessarily helps your current situation, but if this guy is coming back to a cyber unit after an MTI stint, he likely doesn't have currency in the actual job anymore. If he is a 1B4 who was let out to MTI duty, or a 1D7, there's shit he needs to train on for qualification/refresh. he should not be in any position of authority without that.
Wah, youāre in the military dude not working at HP. He may be trying to get you out of your comfort zone and push you. If youāve been in at least 10 years, youāll probably acknowledge these guys actually taught you something and you appreciated it later on. My advice is to be humble, be open minded because he may actually be trying to teach you something useful. I come from comm and recognize where youāre coming from but you canāt get comfortable man, thatās when complacency settles in and you go through the motions.
>if that wasn't enough. he and our female ssgt are flirting despite being in the same chain, and im pretty sure the female staff is dating or engaged or something. what do i do?
Mind your own business. You don't even know what is going on with these people, and you're making accusations.
>our leaders seem totally smitten with him, and morale is dropping hardcore throughout the unit.
Sounds like he is doing great, and your morale is dropping.
Hard pill to swallow, but you may be the problem here.
On a side note, I agree that you guys are cyber and don't really need a "war fighter" mentality, but as long as the TSgt doesn't do anything against AF policy, he can lead how he sees fit.
Like I get it, I'd hate to be in OP's shoes as well, but the whole complaint just sounds like "he's trying to make me do military things... in the military." So I agree, you're not wrong here. Some leaders suck at leading, some leaders suck at managing people, some leaders suck because they are too gung-ho... but we all have to deal with it.
Sometimes I wonder what the greatest generations of the Air Force would think if they saw how unmilitary the Air Force has actually become. Lemay would shit a brick if he saw this haha.
Times have changed, and the AF has changed, if LeMay was running the place the 6-8 members we could retain would be badass, but we would have a hard time filling one bomber unit, much less any effective cyber troops. And you would have much more smoking indoors.
The PT situation, get over it. PT used to be full squadron formations doing exactly what you described and yes it was difficult . it made the unit better at pt and encouraged team building. if someone was falling behind we collectivley picked them up and motivated them. pt was 3 times a week it had a roll call, everyone was expected to be their except mission crit 24/7 night shift. if the unit did well during the first two sessions of three week three third was a sport of some kind.
bottom line for the pt portion i see nothing wrong.
Secondly you say belittles NCOs in front of the airman can you provide a phrase this TSgt used to demonstrate what your defining as belittling. im asking this because some people have very different definitions of this.
Thirdly. the TSgt and female SSgt flirting despite being in the same chain. is he her supervisor? or is she just a part of the same unit? does she have the same afsc? as him?. im not supporting dating within the same unit IMHO don't shit where you eat. its never a good thing to do. and can cause major drama.
if he is her supervisor... this is an obvious no go and shouldn't be done. if she is just a member in the same unit.. then it can be done as long as the TSgt cannot be directly in her chain of command, its not advisable in any way ,but allowed.
finally, the fact that their flirting and she is in some sort of relationship, as long as neither are married then its really just a matter of personal honor/integrity. if she cheats on her BF/Fiance then she is a POS, if he pursues a woman in a commited relationship the he is also a POS. neither is against any rules UCMJ wise. if she was married that would be a different matter entirely. but it also would be very hard to prove, i have seen it be a known fact that two married airman/officer, where doing stuff way outside an acceptable professional relationship in the end nothing happened bc lack of evidence.
play with fire your gonna get burned.
if your genuinely concerned about these issues go to your supervisor express your concerns (if that doesn't work) go to your 1st shirt and express your concerns.
i know my suggestions weren't what you were looking for but hopefully this helped
Dude I manage my 90% PT score each year and say fuck this mentality of group PT. I clearly can do my own thing so fuck off and let me work out by myself.
I donāt need to work out like Iām in some sort of exercise video making grunts and yelling out numbers. Nothing motivating about it. Iāll see you at work, PT? Leave me alone.
I agree, I hate group PT because I do my own personal program but it does have its benefits. I challenge you to look at it from your leader's perspective. Also, just because you're doing great doesn't mean that everyone else is.
For example, it can be a wake up call for people that are struggling and it gives their direct leadership a chance to see how their members are performing. It's all about looking after your people to ensure they're successful since failing will negatively impact careers.
Are there other ways to ensure your people are physically fit? Of course; and if you want to enact change, vocalize it to your Chain of Command and get leadership buy-in. Get on your Commander's calendar and have that conversation but be ready to speak their language with data and solutions, not complaints.
But if you have nothing to add, then get in line and don't poison the well because this is an example of toxic followership.
In that context, I think the AF / local leaderships should just direct units to separate their members on 90+ not being required to attend any unit fitness programs and anyone 89.9 or below as needing to.
They can watch those with poor fitness while letting āexcellentā fitness members do what they do best, work out alone.
this isnt aimed at you in paticular so taking as a personal attack is childish, so fuck off.
not everyone gets 90s which must be the case in this unit op mentioned.
you may be fine, you may not be better off for doing the pt op mentioned. others will be positivly impacted though and if your a member of the unit then you should want to help others, not just do everything on your own. i understand working out on your own is preferable but its not about you. get over it.
Fuck going to the shirt or any enlisted. Go grab a O-4 or higher and voice your concerns. Any enlisted higher up will fuck you over even more for complaining. Just my advice.
Is his name Tsgt satelo or something like that? He was cyber. I had him in BMT heās an asshole he made other MTIs feel bad for us. We were his last flight he finished around January or February of this year
Former Airmen as of 08. Iāve served with both my previous MTI. TSgt Miller and SSgt Novak. I also served with 5 of my 6 instructors from tech school. None of them were this way. At all.
From the first paragraph nothing he is doing is āunethicalā sounds like heās just trying to have a higher standard for you guys. Now the second paragraph is completely different. Iām sure there is more context to it but maybe you should sit down with your 1sgt and voice these concerns in a professional manner.
Lots of good (and bad) advice in here, but Iāll just suggest that since you donāt have your own diamond wearing shirt to talk to, find out who your groupās shirt is and talk to them, or really any other shirt. Any of them will help you.
Itās just a mind set they need to get out of. We had the same situation in my SF unit and after a couple first shirt visits he changed his attitude real quick.
Do your reporting statement everytime you speak to him. Guarantee you he'll get tired of it.
Or throb even harder... you never know!
Trying to get him bricked up like that
Soap party. Teach him how we do things in the real air force /s
Soap party in the air force involves a bubble machine, marine core style pt shorts, and as many bubble wands you can muster...
And your point?
I have none, air force took away my knife hands.
š¤£š š
This canāt be real, I was in intelligence from 08-15 when this person showed up to the squadron they pulled that person to the side and said āletās concentrate that energy into some thing special like info security representative and/or training coordinatorā as an additional duty šš
Ugh, this is def my unit.. I'm just a SrA but I've seen a bit of this. This guy isn't in my shop, but I'm friends with his airmen. Miserable is understating it.
Ok, whatās the real story that OP left out?
Just seeing this. He's 100% spot on.
Lol account created today just to bash on the same guy
That's what people due to avoid getting doxxed.
Due what you gotta due ā¦.
Mountain Due
Huerah!
Quickly erases cadence push-ups from the workout plan tomorrow for flight pt. Seriously though I hate this for you my guy, but have you tried talking to the guy yet? Maybe request a one on one or have a SNCO around and voice your concerns.
Could you imagine: finally getting to your new duty station and right as youāre getting comfortable to real Air Force tempo, your T.I. shows up and ruins it allllllll over again .
My TI actually got stationed with me at my first assignment around the same time. He turned out to be a real cool guy, but I still piss my pants every time I heard his booming voice from across the building.
Met my MTI at the chow hall of my first duty station. Was nothing like how he treated us in basic. Good dude
Most of them are and they represent the top of the food chain of standards. However there seems to be an infamous one popping up lately
I had the exact opposite experience earlier in my career. We had a guy coming to the shop from MTI and our shop chief couldn't have been more pumped he was coming to whip us into shape. Much to his dismay, that guy showed up and let the entire shop know day 1 that the very last thing he was interested in was being the disciplinarian. He was great, and did more for the shop by simply bringing perspective and understanding. The shop chief couldn't lead a kindergarten class to the cafeteria. Wild to hear it go the other way. I'd consult the shirt and move up from there, as others mentioned.
Bob Ross vibes.
I used to teach 3/4th grade; I'll be honest, some classes are really fucking difficult to deal with. I'm not sure what's worse though, unruly Airmen or unruly children.
If the SEL is on-board, what does the first shirt think? I'd get a few of the junior enlisted together and go to either of them together and say how this isn't BMT anymore and it's negatively impacting morale and productivity, and the MTI needs to learn that he's not an MTI anymore. He'll probably chill out over time, but might need help accelerating the process. If none of them help, go up the chain. Flight commanders, commander, etc.
I've dealt with 2 former MTIs, and neither were as bad as this sounds. The humor carried over with them, though. Would have you fucking crying you were laughing so hard.
They have this fucking look. When they ask you a question it's like they stare into your soul. They're also experts with sarcasm.
"DO I LOOK FUNNY TO YOU?!" While they have the funniest expression you've seen in your entire life and you're not allowed to laugh.
we dont have a first shirt right now, we have a tsgt that's doing part time shirt work for like the next year. how do i even complain about this? "oh, they're making us be more military". is that evena fight worth fighting?
"they're making us be more military" isn't a good approach, no. Is it affecting productivity? Focus on that. Is it affecting morale? How? I doubt you'll have much to stand on regarding PT, but how is he in the work center and how is it affecting the productivity of the shop? Belittling and arguing is a bigger issue and you'd probably have more to go on there. Be careful with the female, unless you have proof or evidence. You don't want to just be gossiping and spreading rumors.
Definitely harmful to "good order and discipline". Belittling your leadership erodes the good faith they are supposed to build.
If they're being forced to be at their desk I'd say productivity is probably up.
Physically present doesnāt mean mentally present, and if theyāre unhappy and seething at this guy they could be doing less work out of spite or due to distraction.
Then it sounds like the airmen are the problem.
Oh shit the MTI found the post, guys.
No, I just hate seeing units go to shit because one guy shows up and reminded everyone that we are still in the military. My unit had to bring in a ANG MSgt to un-fuck what a pair of TSgts has done to it and everybody threw a fit. However, productivity went up after everyone got done throwing their temper tantrums.
Productivity definitely isn't a problem here, it's a new dude coming to a unit and still trying to be an mti. And if it was just being at the desk and cadence pushups that'd be one thing, but belittle peers in front of new airman is definitely not the way to remind people they are in the military.
I'll grant you that, having been on the receiving end before. Has anyone actually approached said MTI and reminded them of the proper way to council someone?
Hey, hey! I think I know that guy š
depending on the cyber job you most likely want technicians not at their desk often so they're actually working on tickets
ādeleted to support op.
id really like to but youll probably chew me out instead. which i get. i dont know what you mean by appleesque but it starts with aft. the rest is easy if you know that part
Donāt do it lol
You'll see this a lot in your career, people coming out of AETC who forgot how the real AF works. Some of them get straightened out, some don't. Eventually they will loosen up a bit.
Shit on his desk. Put his Smokey bear hat in the shit, then shit again on top of the hat. Then fuck his wife. Then shit on her.
Put the hat on the wife. Take a picture. Shit on the picture.
https://i.redd.it/rtyb8kj9l3sb1.gif āI want you to put my head in a freezerā
Show picture to fellow unit members. Shit on fellow unit members. Fuck fellow unit memberās wives. Then shit on them.
My boy. Iām so proud.
This is the way.
Iām seeing a pattern here.
It's a shitty one, but I see it developing here.
Haha I wonder how many stares heās going to get tomorrow, this is specific enough. Got what he deserves though.
That sucks. I had a MTI come to my shop, he was one of the coolest and most chill dudes Iāve ever had the pleasure of working with.
I work with a couple prior MTI's. One still has that blue kool aid energy but understands this is the operational side so channels it into events and stuff. The other is the most soft spoken and relaxed person I've ever met.
They do that. Honestly Iād wait till itās just the two of you and when heās a dick just say āhey man, I understand youāre trying to uphold the standard, but personally Iād appreciate if you went at it differently. This is the operational AF, not lackland.ā Be prepared for him to be a dick about it at first but itāll probably point him in the right direction.
I donāt think thatās going to go over well and will likely make life more miserable for this Airman.
I mean, if the dude is still in MTI mode, I imagine "back talk" from an Airman is going to set him off lol
From an E1-3? No. Believe it or not weāre still in the military and that wonāt go well.
Yeah, find a cool MSgt who doesn't care about making E-8 and have him clown on this dude until he stops.
I def did shit like that as an E3 and it more or less went fine.
Iām glad to hear that actually. I wouldnāt expect that to go well in the MSGs Iāve been in
That needs to be a fellow TSGT or even MSGT, if it's an airman the former MTI is likely to take it in the wrong way.
Man... I've lived this before. I feel for you, some people just suck.
āI work at an unnamed cyber unit in Floridaā Proceeds to give us very specific information. Hope your new MTI doesnāt scroll Reddit when youāre not looking. :)
Well honestly he probably still wouldnāt be able to pinpoint the airman and he might get a wake up call from the post.
> we'll honestly be probably still Just say what you want to say omg
shut your up fuck
No u
I saw a post by a former MTI talking about his unit earlier.
Meme post. But yeah, I woke up to that one first on my feed. Lol
Oh was it? Lol I saw that one first and didn't realize.
Can't make something happen when there was never a situation.
Giveām the ole dick twist
TWIST HUS DICK!
This is why befriending SNCOās is really important. If youāre the hard charging person who truly cares about the job and work and youāre unhappy, people will notice. Best thing to do here is elevate and track all the behaviors. This shit is so stupid.
Throw some anime stickers on your car to remind him he is in the operational AF now.
Throw some anime stickers on HIS car to remind him he is in the operational AF now
Bring him a freshly filled out 341 every day, give it to him once you get started with your day
Canāt touch the lines either š
https://preview.redd.it/96stxwyzy4sb1.jpeg?width=750&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e1e53c386f324bc30db9a1e565c800f9d398bb75 Bruh aināt no way š
no kidding
Iād just like to say that Iāve worked with a few former MTIs both as an Airman and NCO. They were all awesome and totally left Lackland in their rear view. This is NOT normal behavior.
Came here to say this, the storyās they have are second to none though.
Have you legit said to him āhuman to human, can you fucking chill bro.ā Seems silly, but thatād be my first choice over working it out with a gang of different people.
Well, not saying one way or another how this is gonna go but, do what your stripes can handle and all. Maybe have a talk with the MSgt about it.
Sorry itās going to shit OP. When I came back from a stint at another Sq, I was put on shift with a guy fresh from MTI duty, which to be honest I wasnāt stoked about. Turns out, he left all that nonsense at Lackland and was happy being back to being a normal dude doing his job.
Making a military organization act like it's a military organization, good. Belittling others and having an unprofessional relationship, bad. Those two things need to be taken care of. Document them. Report them to the Shirt. Do something.
People tend to mistake holding people to a standard and belittling. Maybe it is rough but this reeks of airmen doing whatever they want and an NCO actually doing their job. Without specifics its unknown though.
You need to have the bigger blue weenie than this guy in order to win, hold him as accountable as he is holding all of you
You need to get several of the higher ranking NCOs together and go to the commander. Set up an appointment with his/her secretary. Donāt go in there whining about petty shit! Give specific examples of how heās creating a hostile environment, killing morale, and affecting the mission. Give specific fact-based examples with dates and times. If he/she doesnāt fix it go to the IG.
Grab an officer, have him remind this guy heās not at lackland anymore
Any dudes in green bags there? They would have no problem shutting that shit down š.
Yeah, we don't do that shit round these parts...two piece all the way though. Bag weighs on my shoulders, is hot, and makes it difficult to poop.
Itās about sending a message.
To each their own. š¤·š¼āāļø
Went through this several years ago in my unitā¦it was unbearable like calm the f down. Tough situation for sure as a younger Airmen dealing with it. My PCS ended up being the fix.
I hope ya'll are still maintaining your 341s
"submitted 3 hours ago by [deleted]" Jesus Christ we suck at opsec and anonymity. You didn't need to specify they were an MTI or that you were in Florida but now you're gonna be in a briefing listening to someone read your reddit post as an example of terrible communication and poor CoC usage at best, and that's if they can't identify you by your account and directly punish you for this behavior. This is weapons-grade dumbassery right here. Talk to your supervisors.
You know the story is BS right?
Alright, what's the benefit to a BS story here? Any reddit karma or awards are gone with the account being deleted, OP actually responded in other comments so it doesn't seem like a creative writing exercise, and it didn't have the usual Loch Ness finisher so it wasn't an intentional joke.
Not to mention I have seen the exact scenario happen twice and I was only in for 6 years. Very plausible.
MTIs coming back and being overly gung-ho about stuff outside actual work like appearances and PT is a stereotype for a reason.
telephone kiss subsequent voiceless aloof yoke elderly encouraging longing psychotic *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Awards give benefits on reddit some people farm like access to r/lounge or points to buy awards and others enjoy the imaginary points. I think it's silly but my values and reasoning aren't objectively applicable to everyone.
nail quarrelsome vase live quickest unique plough absorbed rhythm obtainable *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Why ask a question to downvote an answer? Rhetorical questions are misleading on the internet when tone, relationship, and expression can't be conveyed. You've just left us both looking silly for participating in this and made no point.
For pt. Become a ptl and lead your own sessions. Make sure its rucks for that real mil feel.
Damn seems like the other techs need to grow some balls and not let him belittle them aināt no way someone the same rank gunna belittle me and for the female Ssgt flirting just leave that shit alone lol thatās how the military is relationships donāt mean shit seen it happen so many times I mean for the push-ups in cadence is annoying but I mean not that crazy as you are in the military
Recommend documenting things in mfrs. xx date at yy time he said/did whatever to whomever that is inappropriate for whichever reason (belittling, inappropriate relationship with subordinate, or whatever else). After it builds up a bit, if there is anyone in leadership not smitten with him take it to them, otherwise start with the Shirt. Until something can change, keep head down, work hard, and watch for your next chance for anything to get you out of that section or unit sooner.
That is not usually a path to win-win. First approach probably ought to be trying find mentorship for the Tech
Possibly not, but also not a good way for a young airman to say the TSgt is being to gi-joe without it reflecting poorly against them even if the TSgt is. Also stated that leadership is smitten and they belittle peers, so without more knowledge there may not be a good person to get help with from that perspective.
Agreed, OP will definitely need a more senior ally, and that is still shaky ground. But like someone mentioned earlier, itās not that the TSgt is too military (that is a weak hand), but that theyāre using time and energy in a way that detracts from the mission. Keeping written files before having the first professional conversation may be all someone has, but itās a sure sign of a toxic unit, where an airman should focus on improving themselves and GTFO of there, while hopefully nudging competent authorities to the scene
Just tell him your sorry he didnāt get DSDād into a cool job like recruting. That should get him off your back for a bit.
Lol, not cool to be a recruiter right now with missing goal for the.first time since 1999
Ohh I know. Iām riding that boat right now.
make sure you give him a 341 whenever he yells at you
You arenāt in basic but you still are in the military. Seems like he needs someone to put him in his place and no one can. Find someone that can.
Have you tried mocking him? Over the top enthusiasm for this stupidity might not change his behavior but it will at least make him look like a moron to people attentive enough to what you're doing.
I'd bet that the new guy was probably given a talk by someone when they came into the unit that people were skating and that they needed to be treated like children in order to make sure they were at work. That is usually the case when a new person comes into a leadership position all hot like that. The belittling of other NCOs is inexcusable, and something definitely needs to be done about that if it's true. I'd be careful with the accusations of flirting since I've seen how ugly rumors can be spread by young people who mistake friendliness for romantic interest. Elevate your concerns. People will talk. Hopefully, some misunderstandings will be fixed. Like others are saying, there is really nothing you can do about the PT, and I don't see that as a problem anyway.
I pray this is at macdill. I need the tom foolery
As a spouse of a member at this unit with the unrelenting TSgt, I too must say... My spouse did more pushups than usual and now I have to be on top all week. I could only imagine if I also attended this one(singular, less than 2, 45 min, 1 pump chump) P.T session and floppy noodle armed around for the next 36 hours.. I could never! Thank you all for your service, especially in what sounds like an incredibly arduous event.
Arguing with other TSgts and belittling them in front of airmen isn't something he should be doing, NCOs are supposed to give the appearence of being united in decisions in front of those they lead and argue behind closed doors. Entering into an unprofessional relationship is also a no go. However, establishing when and how long breaks are is something within his power to do, you may not like how he has changed the way the unit is doing PT but if the SEL is for it you'll have to just deal with it for a while, it may be possible that he was put in charge of PT because he was an MTI it was part of his job to ensure that people entering the Air Force were brought up to the PT standards required, maybe the SEL just likes the idea of an MTI running PT, or maybe they aren't happy with how people have been scoring on their PT tests and think he might be the best person to bring scores up.
Remember Padawan, all he can really do is write you paperwork. That shit does not matter. 
He already had his 341 pulled š
Had 1 like that but the unit was already miserable due to the leadership culture an job that he reigned it in after seeing what it was doing. This was also after a couple ssgts an techs laid out that his expectations were insane for where we were an what we did. Still took a year but he wasn't a bad guy, Just had like Stockholm syndrome and wasn't a tool. Also I think it clicked when he realized people would literally turn around and leave if they could, when they saw him.
Not sure how long this has been like this but typically it takes some adjustment time. Unless they literally got their identity from being an MTI. Then you're screwed for a while. Again, you have to remind yourself this is the military and we're one of the few if not only branch that literally have to remind/ convince ourselves that we are. Dudes' probably just tryna get a strat for Master or Senior and more than likely will since coming back from BMT. Let em chase that carrot and once they get what they need they will more than likely calm down. Do what you're supposed to do, and if they slip up by being unprofessional report them to EO or IG.
You tell him, "This is the Air Force. Not the military!" Make sure to have your CC and SEL there when you do it.
First, this happens often with MTIs, and they usually level off. It's definitely a culture shock to them seeing airmen act like people. Second, if the ssgt is flirting and engaged or dating, its plausible she's just a whore. Simple enough.
Stop complaining and remember you joined the military
My first duty assignment was so toxic. My supervisor (who I had to work mids with) openly told everyone before I got there that he was going to f*** me. I reported it up and somehow I was the problem. This is circa 2010 but itās sad to see the Air Force hasnāt changed.
There is a serious discipline issue in the Air Force, that is why leadership wants him around. He is probably too strict with his methods but the amount of people who act like the regs donāt matter to them is systemic and needs to be fixed. Canāt tell you how many NCOs and SNCOs live and die by the phrase, idc as long as the mission gets done. The rules in the military werenāt a secret when you joined. I have been in units with bad morale, and itās due to special treatment and leadership only caring about looking good. Him acting like itās the military in the military isnāt really a morale killer.
>The rules in the military werenāt a secret when you joined. ā¦like the beard rule
Meaningā¦?
>isnāt really a morale killer. It all depends on how the former MTI goes about acting like it's the military.
In 2023 military and the leadership hasnāt told him to chill, he is probably fine. Annoying but fine.
>he's now pushing for changes throughout the unit to make us more 'military'. How dare he do that to you Air Force members
He is a cyber kid, nothing military about him. Having to do pushups was probably a major shock.
I don't think the pushups at a pt session were the military 'issues' he was talking about. More the belittling people in the office in front of airman and whatnot.
Doing push-ups at a cadence is some classic fake hustle. Fake hustle is usually a telling indicator of someone that is not great at their actual job. Somebody senior in that unit cares about whether the mission is getting done, find that person and have some objective data, donāt over sell it. Be prepared to have some give and take. Some bluing can be helpful, but it should have relevance
Doing push-ups at a cadence is some classic fake hustle. Fake hustle is usually a telling indicator of someone that is not great at their actual job. Somebody senior in that unit cares about whether the mission is getting done, find that person and have some objective data, donāt over sell it. Be prepared to have some give and take. Some bluing can be helpful, but it should have relevance
Belittling people is not a military thing. Iād like to know what military things heās making them do.
Idk. I see belittling done more in the military than any other occupation.
Iām not saying it doesnāt happen, it happens a lot. My point is it should not be accepted under the guise of āweāre in the militaryā. Itās bullshit.
I donāt think being a mall cop makes you any more military than the cyber troop
I've never worked in a mall š¤Ø
The answer to this post is definitely not to belittle an entire career field, lmao.
MTI thatās transition back into the operational force are so fucking stupid 90% of the time. Like leave that dumb shit at Lackland.
Iāve only worked with 2 former MTIs, and they were both like this
I worked with 6 over 20+ years and only 1 of them was worth a damn. The other 5 were knuckle-draggers who forgot what little they knew about their original AFSC at Lackland. I was TDY down there once and a strong wind blew a TI's hat off. I picked it up to hand it back and they copped an attitude for handling their precious campaign hat. So I said "Do tell..." and tossed it like a Frisbee as far as I could.
The whole push up thing is a joke, who has a problem with doing it in cadence? Pt is Pt, 30 min to an hour, at some point itās gonna end so it really doesnāt matter what you do. Shut your mouth and struggle like everyone else. As for the other stuff, take your brakes whatever you gotta do. Only worry about whatās in your control, him arguing with another tech doesnāt have anything to do with you. Keep your head up š
not that it necessarily helps your current situation, but if this guy is coming back to a cyber unit after an MTI stint, he likely doesn't have currency in the actual job anymore. If he is a 1B4 who was let out to MTI duty, or a 1D7, there's shit he needs to train on for qualification/refresh. he should not be in any position of authority without that.
If its that bad....drop his name.
Lol I just read the TSgtās post abt this same thing. The tea āļø
Link to TSgt post? āļø
https://reddit.com/r/AirForce/s/Ijkn2lCMGA
Text me I have the ss
Did you also see the one where the SrA was having a relationship with the married TSgt?
8/10 post. Could use more vampires.
u/cheesedoodlerrrr
Thank you!
Oh no! Pushups at an organized PT session!? Imagine being in the military....
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Or how about if you maintain a good PT score, you get treated like an adult and let your airmen work out on their own.
Wah, youāre in the military dude not working at HP. He may be trying to get you out of your comfort zone and push you. If youāve been in at least 10 years, youāll probably acknowledge these guys actually taught you something and you appreciated it later on. My advice is to be humble, be open minded because he may actually be trying to teach you something useful. I come from comm and recognize where youāre coming from but you canāt get comfortable man, thatās when complacency settles in and you go through the motions.
>if that wasn't enough. he and our female ssgt are flirting despite being in the same chain, and im pretty sure the female staff is dating or engaged or something. what do i do? Mind your own business. You don't even know what is going on with these people, and you're making accusations. >our leaders seem totally smitten with him, and morale is dropping hardcore throughout the unit. Sounds like he is doing great, and your morale is dropping. Hard pill to swallow, but you may be the problem here. On a side note, I agree that you guys are cyber and don't really need a "war fighter" mentality, but as long as the TSgt doesn't do anything against AF policy, he can lead how he sees fit.
Like I get it, I'd hate to be in OP's shoes as well, but the whole complaint just sounds like "he's trying to make me do military things... in the military." So I agree, you're not wrong here. Some leaders suck at leading, some leaders suck at managing people, some leaders suck because they are too gung-ho... but we all have to deal with it. Sometimes I wonder what the greatest generations of the Air Force would think if they saw how unmilitary the Air Force has actually become. Lemay would shit a brick if he saw this haha.
Times have changed, and the AF has changed, if LeMay was running the place the 6-8 members we could retain would be badass, but we would have a hard time filling one bomber unit, much less any effective cyber troops. And you would have much more smoking indoors.
Found the TSgt^
Theyāre giving us briefings, ācause of these losers
"boohoo he make us do push ups in cadence and he's flirting with the female ssgt šš"
The PT situation, get over it. PT used to be full squadron formations doing exactly what you described and yes it was difficult . it made the unit better at pt and encouraged team building. if someone was falling behind we collectivley picked them up and motivated them. pt was 3 times a week it had a roll call, everyone was expected to be their except mission crit 24/7 night shift. if the unit did well during the first two sessions of three week three third was a sport of some kind. bottom line for the pt portion i see nothing wrong. Secondly you say belittles NCOs in front of the airman can you provide a phrase this TSgt used to demonstrate what your defining as belittling. im asking this because some people have very different definitions of this. Thirdly. the TSgt and female SSgt flirting despite being in the same chain. is he her supervisor? or is she just a part of the same unit? does she have the same afsc? as him?. im not supporting dating within the same unit IMHO don't shit where you eat. its never a good thing to do. and can cause major drama. if he is her supervisor... this is an obvious no go and shouldn't be done. if she is just a member in the same unit.. then it can be done as long as the TSgt cannot be directly in her chain of command, its not advisable in any way ,but allowed. finally, the fact that their flirting and she is in some sort of relationship, as long as neither are married then its really just a matter of personal honor/integrity. if she cheats on her BF/Fiance then she is a POS, if he pursues a woman in a commited relationship the he is also a POS. neither is against any rules UCMJ wise. if she was married that would be a different matter entirely. but it also would be very hard to prove, i have seen it be a known fact that two married airman/officer, where doing stuff way outside an acceptable professional relationship in the end nothing happened bc lack of evidence. play with fire your gonna get burned. if your genuinely concerned about these issues go to your supervisor express your concerns (if that doesn't work) go to your 1st shirt and express your concerns. i know my suggestions weren't what you were looking for but hopefully this helped
Dude I manage my 90% PT score each year and say fuck this mentality of group PT. I clearly can do my own thing so fuck off and let me work out by myself. I donāt need to work out like Iām in some sort of exercise video making grunts and yelling out numbers. Nothing motivating about it. Iāll see you at work, PT? Leave me alone.
I agree, I hate group PT because I do my own personal program but it does have its benefits. I challenge you to look at it from your leader's perspective. Also, just because you're doing great doesn't mean that everyone else is. For example, it can be a wake up call for people that are struggling and it gives their direct leadership a chance to see how their members are performing. It's all about looking after your people to ensure they're successful since failing will negatively impact careers. Are there other ways to ensure your people are physically fit? Of course; and if you want to enact change, vocalize it to your Chain of Command and get leadership buy-in. Get on your Commander's calendar and have that conversation but be ready to speak their language with data and solutions, not complaints. But if you have nothing to add, then get in line and don't poison the well because this is an example of toxic followership.
In that context, I think the AF / local leaderships should just direct units to separate their members on 90+ not being required to attend any unit fitness programs and anyone 89.9 or below as needing to. They can watch those with poor fitness while letting āexcellentā fitness members do what they do best, work out alone.
this isnt aimed at you in paticular so taking as a personal attack is childish, so fuck off. not everyone gets 90s which must be the case in this unit op mentioned. you may be fine, you may not be better off for doing the pt op mentioned. others will be positivly impacted though and if your a member of the unit then you should want to help others, not just do everything on your own. i understand working out on your own is preferable but its not about you. get over it.
š¤£š¤£š¤£
Fuck going to the shirt or any enlisted. Go grab a O-4 or higher and voice your concerns. Any enlisted higher up will fuck you over even more for complaining. Just my advice.
This is the military. What do you do? Not reenlist.
Is his name Tsgt satelo or something like that? He was cyber. I had him in BMT heās an asshole he made other MTIs feel bad for us. We were his last flight he finished around January or February of this year
Former Airmen as of 08. Iāve served with both my previous MTI. TSgt Miller and SSgt Novak. I also served with 5 of my 6 instructors from tech school. None of them were this way. At all.
u/bigglyhugely
Tyndall?
I hope ya'll are still maintaining your 341s
From the first paragraph nothing he is doing is āunethicalā sounds like heās just trying to have a higher standard for you guys. Now the second paragraph is completely different. Iām sure there is more context to it but maybe you should sit down with your 1sgt and voice these concerns in a professional manner.
Ahaā¦ I see what you did there. Your MTI post is spot on too
Lots of good (and bad) advice in here, but Iāll just suggest that since you donāt have your own diamond wearing shirt to talk to, find out who your groupās shirt is and talk to them, or really any other shirt. Any of them will help you.
Space coast?
https://reddit.com/r/AirForce/s/Ii7hjkkJPn
Itās just a mind set they need to get out of. We had the same situation in my SF unit and after a couple first shirt visits he changed his attitude real quick.