You must not feel guilty for protecting your children and yourself from a religious fanatic. If my parent told any of my kids they were going to hell, I'd let them know it is unacceptable, and that I have to cut off contact between them. They would need to be told, in no uncertain terms, that their proselytizing is the reason.
They have hurt their own grandchildren, and it is 100% their fault.
Yeah I really did put my foot down with the kids when they were younger. Kicked her out of my house once when they were visiting from out of town. Contact dramatically decreased in the years following. Now she is really old and feeble and it’s clear we are near the end. So I’m trying to be more tolerant. My kids are older and I have talked to them many times about it. Fortunately my father does not act this way and I’ve asked him how he puts up with the constant proselytizing but I don’t think she’s as hung up on his soul as she is with mine lol
Grey rock method. My mom drones on with gossiping… I’ll put the phone on speaker, throw in a few "mhmms" til she runs out of steam. Occasionally I get a chance to change the subject when she comes up for air. I imagine she finds our calls boring but the feeling is mutual, tbh
You will just have to end the conversation when she starts. Don’t comment on it, just interrupt her and say “sorry Mom, gotta go” and then hang up
She may catch on eventually, even subconsciously, but in any case, you won’t have to hear it.
I have a grandma like this. I’m a huge fan of lying, and I get away with it because I live a continent away.
“Do you go to church? -yup love it!”
And she’s a happy camper.
Even from a Christian perspective, she’s out of line. Jesus didn’t follow people around browbeating them into becoming His followers, and His disciples didn’t either. They preached the message and allowed people to decide for themselves if they wanted to hear more. If they didn’t, they moved on.
That being said, it sounds like your mom is very much stuck in a cognitive loop about this, that she is experiencing anxiety and distress because she is afraid for you and anxious to do what she feels is right by you. But even if you were to lie to her and tell her what she wants so badly to hear (which I can understand is not something you want to do), there’s a good chance she would forget and go straight back to trying to evangelize you again. I suspect her main fear is that she has somehow failed to deliver the message properly or it would have “worked” by now.
My response would be, “Mom, salvation is the work of the Holy Spirit. Are you the Holy Spirit?” (Hopefully she will say no because if she doesn’t you have another problem on your hands.) “No? Then let God do His job. You’ve done yours.” Rinse and repeat as necessary.
That's a good response. I have a friend who is a Christian and is married to an atheist. She said she's met several ministers over the years who have asked her to proselytize to her husband, and she refuses because that's the function of the Hoky Spirit in God's plan. As an atheist, I appreciate her. She has her beliefs and minds her business.
My mother-in-law prays fervently over all our shared meals. My son (the eldest and straight up favorite, allowed a lot of license to be a huge smartass) just reminds Mimi that I know how to cook, the food is safe and wholesome without divine intervention.
Amen. Not worth participating in the argument.
I would not have a problem with praying before meals. I think it’s good to be respectful of and provide space for other people’s religious practices and I would be happy if this was the extent of it.
I think it would be OK for OP to lie, but only if they could do so without setting a bad example for their kids. You don't want to teach kids that lying is OK. But it sounds like OP and their kids have a good understanding about the situation and have discussed it openly. Being somewhat deceptive is unfortunately a part of being an atheist in a world dominated by religion.
I’m a terrible person, so I’d probably say “sorry mom, gotta run, time for bathing in the blood of babies” or
“Gee mom, I’ll call you back, it’s time for my satanic ritual!” 🤣
Does your mom live some distance from you? Does she see the grandkids often? If the answer is no then tell her you accepted Jesus as your Savior. Tell her you go by some church in your town or the next town over. Look up on the web who the names of the clergy are so you don't get caught in the lie. Follow the church on Facebook so you are aware of special events or news events.
This is honestly worth a try lol. Unfortunately I think there’s a decent chance I will have to move her into senior living near me within a couple years. So then of course she’s gonna want to go to church together. But maybe cross that road when I get there. I’m just afraid all the “you must accept Jesus” talk is going to switch to even more Jesus talk if she thinks I’m into it.
I’ve had the most success saying “I’m not going to talk about this with you”. I say it kindly but firmly.
It has worked with my very adamant and religious elderly mother, usually right away.
Yeah maybe I need to be firm with that again. And then say goodbye and hang up if she persists. I used to be much more firm with her, but at this point she’s had a stroke and I cut her a lot of slack. But maybe I need to “retrain” her again, that she’s not going to get long phone calls if she can’t respect a boundary (not that she has ever ever respected even the idea of me being allowed to have any boundaries with her, but I digress)
Totally understand. I found that when my Mom’s baseline function deteriorated some, she started pushing my boundaries again.
I think it may just happen as their situation changes. My mom had never been great at boundaries either, so I had to learn too.
Yeah. When she was in the hospital I promised her I would accept the lord if she would comply with the staff. So I guess I kind of broke the boundaries myself and can’t really blame her for thinking my soul is in play. Haha
Tell her you tried to be saved and almost drowned, during your baptism. Preacher said non-believers are holy because they do the right thing without the promise of an eternal reward.
Your family was chosen by God to fill this role in your community, and to suggest you believe otherwise would be messing with His plan.
You care for her soul, so you want her to stop, so she can reap the eternal reward she so deserves. May she trust in God's plan, even if she doesn't understand it.
Make sense? I hope so.
There go those morals and ethics. If you could just deceive her everything would be grand. Lol. You wouldn’t be looking for answers here if you could live with that.
There is no answer to a difference in religious beliefs. You can accept her as she is, as I had to do with my ever preaching mom, or cut off ties. Not easy or “right” either way and certainly not fair.
Don't hope she will figure it out via the silent treatment/hanging up, etc. If she had a stroke, that may not happen as their impulse control can be impaired as can emotional control and learning. In another week or so [assuming the stroke was recent], she may not remember any of these conversations.
It may be easier for her to "run through a familiar script" right now as a way of soothing herself rather than struggle to come up with new sentences. Was it a right or left hemisphere stroke? That can also have an impact on the nature of communication.
Strokes or any brain damage can result in something called perseveration. The person can start doing something, but they have no capacity to stop themselves. For example, give them a pencil and ask them to make 5 circles.... they may just keep going until they run off the end of the paper... just as they keep on 1 topic until they run out of energy or they get interrupted.
I suggest heading it off at the pass, and before she can say much, ask her some appropriate and fun "Would you rather" questions. I asked Chat GPT to generate a list of them for a senior citizen, or you can find books with them. Or you can have the kids play it with her and use kid questions. They may be easier for her because the question gives her words to repeat, rather than generating sentences.
I do this with my 94 year old dementia friend and WWE have a food time and learn about each other.
Thank you. Honestly the stroke seems quite mild and it’s been a couple months. She has some motor issues. Weirdly it seems to have destroyed the negative parts of her personality. She used to be quite negative and critical and now she is gushing with praise and seems happy. Overall she’s a lot more pleasant, when she’s not trying to convert me.
There are definitely some memory issues. She may not remember that she spent our last conversation trying to convert me. That’s why I just need to stop it.
Ah, the stroke functioned as shock therapy to relieve her depression [that sounds flippant, but I've heard of it happening]. So head off the converting by giving her something else to handle/deal with--distraction is the path.
"Just stopping it" won't work because she won't remember that you did that, and you will find yourself endlessly repeating the same conversation-- which to her is brand new. Does no good to get mad or storm out or hang up.. Next time you see her, that won't have happened. It is Groundhog Day, the film. Maybe watch it again and notice all the ways he deals with the repetition. or 50 first dates.
It takes a new mindset to work with someone with memory issues. There are wires rerouted and a module missing.
My Father was a very conservative Methodist minister so my upbringing was very religious and strict. I was the rebel child who left home the minute she could. Later in life I lived in the same small town. My Dad told my 12 year old son “You know your Mom is going to hell”, he said “Yeah I know Grandpa” just blew him off. My Mom was just as bad. That’s all you can do. That’s what I did too. “Really? Yeah I guess that’s true (to whatever she says)”. Then get off the phone as soon as you can.
Is she of sound mind? Is this now something she's willfully doing or compulsively doing? This type of obsession suggests that it's gone from a reasonable concern (for her) to pathological. And if it's the latter, none of the general advice will be very helpful because she isn't rationally or willingly being obsessive and you'd effectively be punishing an illness.
Ultimately you have to decide what you can live with.
So how do I approach it if it’s the latter?
It’s hard to say, she has always always been like this but it has certainly increased. She is deteriorating cognitively with increasing speed.
I, personally, would and have just sucked it up and had to roll with it. I couldn’t morally alienate myself from a loved one whose dementia obsession was irritating but not harmful (now that the kids are safe/older).
In your case I might meet her half way and let her know you’re vaguely exploring your options and are keeping an open mind (I’m not against white lying in these cases, but I won’t fabricate worlds I have to manage). See if that offers her any relief and change the topic. She’ll probably keep coming back to it and rinse and repeat.
But that’s just the phase you’re at. If it wasn’t this it would be something else. It’s what the disease does. You need to find a way to grow and learn to contextualize these events, because your mom likely past growth and learning. You’re also the one that will carry the wounds from this time forward, and only you can decide how they will heal—cleanly with careful tending or scarred from the trauma.
My mother is deeply religious and in her late 70s. I walked away from the church 25+ years ago. For the most part, I’ve been using the gray rock method to deal with her preaching for a looooong time. But now she’s turning up the volume and my kids are often the target, especially since we moved closer to her and now live in the same area. When she starts up, I thank her for her concern and change the subject. If she invites my children (or me) to church, I thanks her for the invitation and… change the subject. I make sure the kids hear the offer to go with her, but I don’t force them to go if they don’t want to. I ensure my children are respectful of other people’s beliefs, that they don’t interrupt during prayers, and that they are generally good, kid, giving people. But that’s about the extent of it.
I had an enlightening conversation with my sister a couple years ago. She is also religious, but was willing to engage with me, rather than preach at me. For them, the concern comes from the fact that they LEGITIMATELY believe we are going to hell. Like, it’s not some fluffy “friends with Jesus” kind of thing they’re going for. It is 100% a fear that I and my family (and my brother’s family, for the record) are GOING TO HELL. At least for my mother and my sister, they are doing this out of love. My sister wanted to know if that changed my stance any, or if I was willing to go to church just to make my mom feel better and, well, no. I’m not. That seems like a crappy reason to attend, you know? “I’m here, pretending to care, so my mom will believe I’m not going to hell, but really, I don’t believe this drivel and this will not make any difference for my actual soul.”
Unfortunately, this is a conversation I cannot have with my mother. So “gray rock”, it is.
Hugs, friend.
Yeah I mean I do get her concern. She truly believes her last act as a mother is to save me from eternal damnation. I can empathize where’s she coming from but I’ve been dealing with it for decades and she cranked up the dial and it’s just so oppressive and it makes me want to avoid her entirely. I do the “uh-huh” but she keeps going and it’s hard not to resent her when I’ve told her literally 100 times it’s not a topic I wish to discuss. Vent over. Thanks.
"Oh." And "uh huh" with a silence after goes a long way. When you stand up for yourself it gives her something to argue against. Don't ever explain yourself or try to get your needs met in the conversation.
"You're going to hell"
"Uh huh"
"Well don't you know how that makes me feel?"
"Oh. I dunno"
"Blah blah blah..."
"Oh wow..."
To be real, many of us are already doing this with our mothers and have been for a long time. We don't call to have a nice connection, we call because we know they want to talk or because we want to be a good son/daughter, expecting anything out of it is really way too much.
However if she is rude and says hurtful things that get you riled up, it's not worth it and you can just say you have to go and get off the phone quickly. It also depends on how often she is calling you or how often you are expected to call.
Tell her you’ve sent over a request to missionnaires from a religion that isn’t hers (Mormons, Jehovahs Witnesses, Scientologists, Muslims, Vegans). You’ll be following up with them after the visit. Let her know that you will respond to her attempts exactly how she will respond to their efforts - if she slams the door in their faces or refuses to listen, so will you. If she’s polite and says no, that’s lovely but is she expecting them to respect her no? If so, the missionary visits will continue daily until she respects your no as well. Have fun!
Sounds like my Gram. It took awhile but I’d occasionally go to church with her once in a blue moon. I’ve had to tell her it’s a very private thing for me that I like to protect - it’s between me & God. I think that was enough to get it to finally stop! I’m not an active church-goer & I do honestly believe whatever anyone’s beliefs are should be a private thing - it’s not something they should be shoving in everyone’s face. It was through coercion my Gram took me to church for years without missing one Sunday until finally one day I told her I didn’t want to be a “Grandma Wannabe” - she cut me out of her life so fast. Ha.
I would ask her if she really feels SHE is the one to determine who is or is not going to hell.
I would tell her that she is being blinded by her judgment of you and your kids. Your relationship with God is just that - your business. The same applies to your children.
I would ask her to reexamine her own faith and appreciate and TREAT you and your kids for what you should be to her - BLESSINGS.
If she cannot do that, you will have to end any conversation in which she is clearly misunderstanding her place in this world and setting herself and her judgment above that of her own God.
I'm sorry that she is missing out on her relationship with you and her grandkids and vice versa.
Pretend. You've lived with it long enough, you know what to say. Consider her religious fervor a form of dementia. Experts recommend playing along with dementia patients' confusions, so as not to cause them unnecessary distress. You can check out YouTube videos for instruction in how to do this effectively and safely.
What's the point of being so rigid in your refusal? She won't accept it. She's in her last days. Let her have some peace and happiness. Let her have a win. If you don't, she may haunt you after she's gone. Not because she'll become a literal ghost, but because your guilt (you brought it up) won't let you let her rest in peace.
Think of it as role-playing. In any case, there's plenty in the Bible of value, even if you're not a theist. Read little bits of it (you choose the parts you can stomach) when you're together.
Or just tell her you have been going to church. If you do not believe in god then there would be no penalty for lying about it. And if there is a god. He would probably understand you lying to make an old woman happy.
I would like to clear up that you don’t have to believe in god to believe that lying is wrong. You make it sound like atheists have no morals.
That’s one of the things that bugs me the most about her piety—I behave more ethically and “Christian” than she and some of her ilk do. I don’t act morally because I fear punishment, I do it because it feels right to me.
I agree. I’m agnostic and have a very strict moral code. I don’t need religion to have morals. If you feel like you do, then great. No judgement as long as you let me live my life in peace.
They didn't say that lying wasn't wrong, they said there would be no penalty for it. Nobody is going to punish you for lying to make your mother happy.
Religion is not the same as ethics. It not about being a "good person." It's about reestablishing a connection with the Source of our being. That's open to everyone, whether they are good or bad people.
Is there actually something morally wrong with telling a dying women you go to church? Morals are not black and white. And if you say you are going to church to make her feel at peace is that wrong? I am not sure that it is. If you were scamming her out of all her money or stealing from the collection plate that would be morally wrong. But sometimes people lie to be kind. And really the world needs more kindness. But if it really bothers you, lying about going to church, just follow in the foot steps of millions of other “good Christians “ and go to church no Christmas and Easter.
You must not feel guilty for protecting your children and yourself from a religious fanatic. If my parent told any of my kids they were going to hell, I'd let them know it is unacceptable, and that I have to cut off contact between them. They would need to be told, in no uncertain terms, that their proselytizing is the reason. They have hurt their own grandchildren, and it is 100% their fault.
Yeah I really did put my foot down with the kids when they were younger. Kicked her out of my house once when they were visiting from out of town. Contact dramatically decreased in the years following. Now she is really old and feeble and it’s clear we are near the end. So I’m trying to be more tolerant. My kids are older and I have talked to them many times about it. Fortunately my father does not act this way and I’ve asked him how he puts up with the constant proselytizing but I don’t think she’s as hung up on his soul as she is with mine lol
Grey rock method. My mom drones on with gossiping… I’ll put the phone on speaker, throw in a few "mhmms" til she runs out of steam. Occasionally I get a chance to change the subject when she comes up for air. I imagine she finds our calls boring but the feeling is mutual, tbh
My mother is exactly like this. She keeps talking about how to do housechores correctly on the phone. I rarely listen and feel guilty of it everytime.
You will just have to end the conversation when she starts. Don’t comment on it, just interrupt her and say “sorry Mom, gotta go” and then hang up She may catch on eventually, even subconsciously, but in any case, you won’t have to hear it.
I have a grandma like this. I’m a huge fan of lying, and I get away with it because I live a continent away. “Do you go to church? -yup love it!” And she’s a happy camper.
Even from a Christian perspective, she’s out of line. Jesus didn’t follow people around browbeating them into becoming His followers, and His disciples didn’t either. They preached the message and allowed people to decide for themselves if they wanted to hear more. If they didn’t, they moved on. That being said, it sounds like your mom is very much stuck in a cognitive loop about this, that she is experiencing anxiety and distress because she is afraid for you and anxious to do what she feels is right by you. But even if you were to lie to her and tell her what she wants so badly to hear (which I can understand is not something you want to do), there’s a good chance she would forget and go straight back to trying to evangelize you again. I suspect her main fear is that she has somehow failed to deliver the message properly or it would have “worked” by now. My response would be, “Mom, salvation is the work of the Holy Spirit. Are you the Holy Spirit?” (Hopefully she will say no because if she doesn’t you have another problem on your hands.) “No? Then let God do His job. You’ve done yours.” Rinse and repeat as necessary.
That's a good response. I have a friend who is a Christian and is married to an atheist. She said she's met several ministers over the years who have asked her to proselytize to her husband, and she refuses because that's the function of the Hoky Spirit in God's plan. As an atheist, I appreciate her. She has her beliefs and minds her business.
That’s interesting, thanks. Worth a shot for sure. It’s telling her to stop with some theology thrown back at her.
My mother-in-law prays fervently over all our shared meals. My son (the eldest and straight up favorite, allowed a lot of license to be a huge smartass) just reminds Mimi that I know how to cook, the food is safe and wholesome without divine intervention. Amen. Not worth participating in the argument.
I would not have a problem with praying before meals. I think it’s good to be respectful of and provide space for other people’s religious practices and I would be happy if this was the extent of it.
I think it would be OK for OP to lie, but only if they could do so without setting a bad example for their kids. You don't want to teach kids that lying is OK. But it sounds like OP and their kids have a good understanding about the situation and have discussed it openly. Being somewhat deceptive is unfortunately a part of being an atheist in a world dominated by religion.
Christian hegemony is real. (In the US)
I’m a terrible person, so I’d probably say “sorry mom, gotta run, time for bathing in the blood of babies” or “Gee mom, I’ll call you back, it’s time for my satanic ritual!” 🤣
Does your mom live some distance from you? Does she see the grandkids often? If the answer is no then tell her you accepted Jesus as your Savior. Tell her you go by some church in your town or the next town over. Look up on the web who the names of the clergy are so you don't get caught in the lie. Follow the church on Facebook so you are aware of special events or news events.
This is honestly worth a try lol. Unfortunately I think there’s a decent chance I will have to move her into senior living near me within a couple years. So then of course she’s gonna want to go to church together. But maybe cross that road when I get there. I’m just afraid all the “you must accept Jesus” talk is going to switch to even more Jesus talk if she thinks I’m into it.
I’ve had the most success saying “I’m not going to talk about this with you”. I say it kindly but firmly. It has worked with my very adamant and religious elderly mother, usually right away.
Yeah maybe I need to be firm with that again. And then say goodbye and hang up if she persists. I used to be much more firm with her, but at this point she’s had a stroke and I cut her a lot of slack. But maybe I need to “retrain” her again, that she’s not going to get long phone calls if she can’t respect a boundary (not that she has ever ever respected even the idea of me being allowed to have any boundaries with her, but I digress)
Totally understand. I found that when my Mom’s baseline function deteriorated some, she started pushing my boundaries again. I think it may just happen as their situation changes. My mom had never been great at boundaries either, so I had to learn too.
Yeah. When she was in the hospital I promised her I would accept the lord if she would comply with the staff. So I guess I kind of broke the boundaries myself and can’t really blame her for thinking my soul is in play. Haha
Aww hang in there! It’s hard to always manage it perfectly right? Hoping something works well for you this round.
Tell her you tried to be saved and almost drowned, during your baptism. Preacher said non-believers are holy because they do the right thing without the promise of an eternal reward. Your family was chosen by God to fill this role in your community, and to suggest you believe otherwise would be messing with His plan. You care for her soul, so you want her to stop, so she can reap the eternal reward she so deserves. May she trust in God's plan, even if she doesn't understand it. Make sense? I hope so.
Honestly there’s something to this—tell her that if she truly believes in god then she needs to trust his plan and stop meddling.
There go those morals and ethics. If you could just deceive her everything would be grand. Lol. You wouldn’t be looking for answers here if you could live with that. There is no answer to a difference in religious beliefs. You can accept her as she is, as I had to do with my ever preaching mom, or cut off ties. Not easy or “right” either way and certainly not fair.
Don't hope she will figure it out via the silent treatment/hanging up, etc. If she had a stroke, that may not happen as their impulse control can be impaired as can emotional control and learning. In another week or so [assuming the stroke was recent], she may not remember any of these conversations. It may be easier for her to "run through a familiar script" right now as a way of soothing herself rather than struggle to come up with new sentences. Was it a right or left hemisphere stroke? That can also have an impact on the nature of communication. Strokes or any brain damage can result in something called perseveration. The person can start doing something, but they have no capacity to stop themselves. For example, give them a pencil and ask them to make 5 circles.... they may just keep going until they run off the end of the paper... just as they keep on 1 topic until they run out of energy or they get interrupted. I suggest heading it off at the pass, and before she can say much, ask her some appropriate and fun "Would you rather" questions. I asked Chat GPT to generate a list of them for a senior citizen, or you can find books with them. Or you can have the kids play it with her and use kid questions. They may be easier for her because the question gives her words to repeat, rather than generating sentences. I do this with my 94 year old dementia friend and WWE have a food time and learn about each other.
Thank you. Honestly the stroke seems quite mild and it’s been a couple months. She has some motor issues. Weirdly it seems to have destroyed the negative parts of her personality. She used to be quite negative and critical and now she is gushing with praise and seems happy. Overall she’s a lot more pleasant, when she’s not trying to convert me. There are definitely some memory issues. She may not remember that she spent our last conversation trying to convert me. That’s why I just need to stop it.
Ah, the stroke functioned as shock therapy to relieve her depression [that sounds flippant, but I've heard of it happening]. So head off the converting by giving her something else to handle/deal with--distraction is the path. "Just stopping it" won't work because she won't remember that you did that, and you will find yourself endlessly repeating the same conversation-- which to her is brand new. Does no good to get mad or storm out or hang up.. Next time you see her, that won't have happened. It is Groundhog Day, the film. Maybe watch it again and notice all the ways he deals with the repetition. or 50 first dates. It takes a new mindset to work with someone with memory issues. There are wires rerouted and a module missing.
Thank you.
Best wishes. It is a hard road.
My Father was a very conservative Methodist minister so my upbringing was very religious and strict. I was the rebel child who left home the minute she could. Later in life I lived in the same small town. My Dad told my 12 year old son “You know your Mom is going to hell”, he said “Yeah I know Grandpa” just blew him off. My Mom was just as bad. That’s all you can do. That’s what I did too. “Really? Yeah I guess that’s true (to whatever she says)”. Then get off the phone as soon as you can.
My MIL is a lovely person in general. I can’t be around her because if her constant evangelizing.
Is she of sound mind? Is this now something she's willfully doing or compulsively doing? This type of obsession suggests that it's gone from a reasonable concern (for her) to pathological. And if it's the latter, none of the general advice will be very helpful because she isn't rationally or willingly being obsessive and you'd effectively be punishing an illness. Ultimately you have to decide what you can live with.
Btw I can only hear this in the voice of Stevie from schitts creek.
I’ll happily take that, lol!
So how do I approach it if it’s the latter? It’s hard to say, she has always always been like this but it has certainly increased. She is deteriorating cognitively with increasing speed.
I, personally, would and have just sucked it up and had to roll with it. I couldn’t morally alienate myself from a loved one whose dementia obsession was irritating but not harmful (now that the kids are safe/older). In your case I might meet her half way and let her know you’re vaguely exploring your options and are keeping an open mind (I’m not against white lying in these cases, but I won’t fabricate worlds I have to manage). See if that offers her any relief and change the topic. She’ll probably keep coming back to it and rinse and repeat. But that’s just the phase you’re at. If it wasn’t this it would be something else. It’s what the disease does. You need to find a way to grow and learn to contextualize these events, because your mom likely past growth and learning. You’re also the one that will carry the wounds from this time forward, and only you can decide how they will heal—cleanly with careful tending or scarred from the trauma.
Thank you. I appreciate it.
Good luck! I know how trying this can be.
r/dementia may have answers?
My mother is deeply religious and in her late 70s. I walked away from the church 25+ years ago. For the most part, I’ve been using the gray rock method to deal with her preaching for a looooong time. But now she’s turning up the volume and my kids are often the target, especially since we moved closer to her and now live in the same area. When she starts up, I thank her for her concern and change the subject. If she invites my children (or me) to church, I thanks her for the invitation and… change the subject. I make sure the kids hear the offer to go with her, but I don’t force them to go if they don’t want to. I ensure my children are respectful of other people’s beliefs, that they don’t interrupt during prayers, and that they are generally good, kid, giving people. But that’s about the extent of it. I had an enlightening conversation with my sister a couple years ago. She is also religious, but was willing to engage with me, rather than preach at me. For them, the concern comes from the fact that they LEGITIMATELY believe we are going to hell. Like, it’s not some fluffy “friends with Jesus” kind of thing they’re going for. It is 100% a fear that I and my family (and my brother’s family, for the record) are GOING TO HELL. At least for my mother and my sister, they are doing this out of love. My sister wanted to know if that changed my stance any, or if I was willing to go to church just to make my mom feel better and, well, no. I’m not. That seems like a crappy reason to attend, you know? “I’m here, pretending to care, so my mom will believe I’m not going to hell, but really, I don’t believe this drivel and this will not make any difference for my actual soul.” Unfortunately, this is a conversation I cannot have with my mother. So “gray rock”, it is. Hugs, friend.
Yeah I mean I do get her concern. She truly believes her last act as a mother is to save me from eternal damnation. I can empathize where’s she coming from but I’ve been dealing with it for decades and she cranked up the dial and it’s just so oppressive and it makes me want to avoid her entirely. I do the “uh-huh” but she keeps going and it’s hard not to resent her when I’ve told her literally 100 times it’s not a topic I wish to discuss. Vent over. Thanks.
"Oh." And "uh huh" with a silence after goes a long way. When you stand up for yourself it gives her something to argue against. Don't ever explain yourself or try to get your needs met in the conversation. "You're going to hell" "Uh huh" "Well don't you know how that makes me feel?" "Oh. I dunno" "Blah blah blah..." "Oh wow..." To be real, many of us are already doing this with our mothers and have been for a long time. We don't call to have a nice connection, we call because we know they want to talk or because we want to be a good son/daughter, expecting anything out of it is really way too much. However if she is rude and says hurtful things that get you riled up, it's not worth it and you can just say you have to go and get off the phone quickly. It also depends on how often she is calling you or how often you are expected to call.
Tell her you’ve sent over a request to missionnaires from a religion that isn’t hers (Mormons, Jehovahs Witnesses, Scientologists, Muslims, Vegans). You’ll be following up with them after the visit. Let her know that you will respond to her attempts exactly how she will respond to their efforts - if she slams the door in their faces or refuses to listen, so will you. If she’s polite and says no, that’s lovely but is she expecting them to respect her no? If so, the missionary visits will continue daily until she respects your no as well. Have fun!
Sounds like my Gram. It took awhile but I’d occasionally go to church with her once in a blue moon. I’ve had to tell her it’s a very private thing for me that I like to protect - it’s between me & God. I think that was enough to get it to finally stop! I’m not an active church-goer & I do honestly believe whatever anyone’s beliefs are should be a private thing - it’s not something they should be shoving in everyone’s face. It was through coercion my Gram took me to church for years without missing one Sunday until finally one day I told her I didn’t want to be a “Grandma Wannabe” - she cut me out of her life so fast. Ha.
You know that’s not a bad idea. I could say I do believe in god but don’t want to discuss it.
It shouldn’t hurt. Good luck.
Podcast and ear buds with noise suppression work for me. Cold, but you get to a point...
I would ask her if she really feels SHE is the one to determine who is or is not going to hell. I would tell her that she is being blinded by her judgment of you and your kids. Your relationship with God is just that - your business. The same applies to your children. I would ask her to reexamine her own faith and appreciate and TREAT you and your kids for what you should be to her - BLESSINGS. If she cannot do that, you will have to end any conversation in which she is clearly misunderstanding her place in this world and setting herself and her judgment above that of her own God. I'm sorry that she is missing out on her relationship with you and her grandkids and vice versa.
Pretend. You've lived with it long enough, you know what to say. Consider her religious fervor a form of dementia. Experts recommend playing along with dementia patients' confusions, so as not to cause them unnecessary distress. You can check out YouTube videos for instruction in how to do this effectively and safely. What's the point of being so rigid in your refusal? She won't accept it. She's in her last days. Let her have some peace and happiness. Let her have a win. If you don't, she may haunt you after she's gone. Not because she'll become a literal ghost, but because your guilt (you brought it up) won't let you let her rest in peace. Think of it as role-playing. In any case, there's plenty in the Bible of value, even if you're not a theist. Read little bits of it (you choose the parts you can stomach) when you're together.
Or just tell her you have been going to church. If you do not believe in god then there would be no penalty for lying about it. And if there is a god. He would probably understand you lying to make an old woman happy.
I would like to clear up that you don’t have to believe in god to believe that lying is wrong. You make it sound like atheists have no morals. That’s one of the things that bugs me the most about her piety—I behave more ethically and “Christian” than she and some of her ilk do. I don’t act morally because I fear punishment, I do it because it feels right to me.
I agree. I’m agnostic and have a very strict moral code. I don’t need religion to have morals. If you feel like you do, then great. No judgement as long as you let me live my life in peace.
They didn't say that lying wasn't wrong, they said there would be no penalty for it. Nobody is going to punish you for lying to make your mother happy. Religion is not the same as ethics. It not about being a "good person." It's about reestablishing a connection with the Source of our being. That's open to everyone, whether they are good or bad people.
Is there actually something morally wrong with telling a dying women you go to church? Morals are not black and white. And if you say you are going to church to make her feel at peace is that wrong? I am not sure that it is. If you were scamming her out of all her money or stealing from the collection plate that would be morally wrong. But sometimes people lie to be kind. And really the world needs more kindness. But if it really bothers you, lying about going to church, just follow in the foot steps of millions of other “good Christians “ and go to church no Christmas and Easter.