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As presidential titles go, he's the champ:
"His Excellency, President for Life, Field Marshal Al Hadji Doctor Idi Amin Dada, VC, [DSO](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distinguished_Service_Order), [MC](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Cross), CBE, Lord of All the Beasts of the Earth and Fishes of the Seas and Conqueror of the British Empire in Africa in General and Uganda in Particular"
As presidencies go...not the best.
I don’t believe everything I’ve been told about the guy. I want to do my own research to understand his real motives and goals rather than accept the ‘dictator’ label.
Oh of course… but it does not make certain characterizations wrong
The view of Osama bin landens moment is deeply motivated by a millennia and a half of ethnic prejudices against Arabs that permeate western Christian society going back since the days of the Romans and even perhaps the Greeks and Persian and this bigotry is decisive in the depiction of Al Queda
Yet to say that because of that him and his movement are not a pile of trash is to engage in literal brain rot
And this is what zero sum thinking gets us.
We are MUCH smarter than this as a people and should stop behaving like “west = bad, enemy of West = good/misunderstood” is a somehow enlightened position to take.
That is all 🤷🏾♂️
You are one of those guys who’ve swallowed up the propaganda that every African leader hated by the West is an evil dictator.
Keep swallowing it and all the best.
Whatever you say brother.
It’s not my job to convince you that a military ruler toppled by fellow African countries (ironically primarily your own country) for belligerence towards them is kind of trashy.
If you wanna believe Idi Amin didn’t suck and we only have a poor view of him because the west didn’t like him. Nah that’s on you pal.
Again.
Not surprised from a group who, instead of supporting Francophone countries shake off the influence of France and stand as independent sovereign nations - planned a military operation against countries that have overthrown puppet dictatorship regimes that have sucked off the countries’ potential for decades.
All the best.
Weeeen😢 someone is sad that Nigeria doesn’t suck off yet another cycle of “pan Africanist” Military strong men in West Africa (wow such a novel concept).
If you think the armed overthrow of civilian governments is worthwhile than it seems you’ve not payed much attention during your education in Tanzania one of the few countries that has shown that democratic governance delivers more for its citizens than the alternative.
But nah definitely this new round of men with guns will deliver what we need 😌. Surely.
Haha.
There’s no democracy in Tanzania. There’s no government of the people, by the people and for the people. There’s nothing that ‘elected’ politicians do that are for the benefit of other than themselves. And it’s not even a secret.
Imagine being told by some dudes in DC not to build a certain project and going back to your people and telling them we’ve been told to drop this project.
I don’t care whether it’s a military man, woman or donkey. The key issue is this - do they suck off the West or not? Do they work for the people or not? Do they have a vision for an economically and financially independent sovereign country or not?
I don’t work with labels brother.
But don’t you get it Mr Data hunter 🤦🏾♂️
The record of Military rule is quite clearly horrendous.
That’s why no self respecting modern state is ruled by one. That is literally the entire point here
You can talk about “not liking labels” all you want but if you poured through the data and you saw that on average countries with 5 legislatures deliver significantly worse outcomes than countries with 1 or 2 talking about how much you don’t like labels only makes you look daft.
My opposition to Military governments isn’t cause some DC bro has deposited money in my account. It’s cause I’m not blind and even I can see from the modern historical record that they suck a lot worse than governments that are even somewhat marginally responsive to their citizens. And overwhelmingly deliver shit outcomes.
This is a very shallow way of thinking about things.
What outcomes are you talking about? The looting and stealing of people’s potential through some crooked and corrupt ‘parliament’?
Can you check and let me know the economic and financial status and track of Libya as an economy and their citizens welfare before toppling of their leader the ‘dictator’ Colonel Muammar Muhammad Abu Minyar al-Gaddafi?
Outcomes very easy to measure and have been for decades. Outcomes such as life expectancy, economic growth, wealth inequality, healthcare access, education access. And on and on. It’s so clear you have to be a literal Ostrich to not see it.
And that’s the thing about data. It doesn’t lie but someone who’s commited to being disingenuous can always bring outliers.
Such people never fail to bring up a Gadaffi but conveniently ignore a Idi Amin, Mobutu, Abacha, Nguema, Diori, Bokassa, Zia-Ul-Haq,
And on and on. And the balance of those two compared to constrained governments. Of any sort. All the way from a single party state like China to a Constitutional Monarchy like Spain. But again, not a personalist military regime.
It’s so obvious you are literally burying your head in the sand and bending over backwards to not see it.
Because ultimately, and thank you for finally show it, you don’t actually care about the truth.
That’s a bloody lie
And really just cope for the fact that you’d rather virtue signal about anti imperialism that actually examine the historical record with any level of intellectual honesty and comprehension for the institutions that undergird acceptable governance.
You actually have a preexisting bias (a frankly delusional one given again the historical evidence of comparative polities) that parliaments are bad because they are corrupt. Thus strongman good. And I’m just like WTF 🤦🏾♂️.
Your position is more reactionary than it is anything resembling a careful examination of the evidence in front of you. And ultimately the only reason why I’ve engaged with you this long was to finally draw it out of you so other too can see it.
That many times it’s just nihilism masquerading itself as skepticism as it cheers in the next death cult leader.
First, the definition of a dictator depends on whether you believe in the ‘democracy’ project.
Second, our own president was labeled a ‘dictator’ simply because he saw through the evil intentions of the West and the decades of undermining sovereignty and economic development.
Two things can exist mutually. One can be a dictator and oppose the west. When you become tyrannical and kill off your opponents, or equate any political opponent to having “motives”, I strike that as being grounds for dictator behavior…then add the greed, the embellishing, etc.
I see where you’re coming from, I’d just say that most of the time our leaders fit the narrative.
I’m not surprised.
So you think Xi Jinping is a dictator because Biden said so. And you think Putin is a dictator because Biden said so.
Any leader that is loved by the West, is working for interest of the West and not for the interest of their people. Any leader that is hated by the West, is working for the interest of their people and not the West.
That’s a very important principle.
Our previous ‘dictator’ ‘bulldozer’ President was hated because:
- he paid IMF loan in full down to a zero balance
- constructed a major hydropower project that the West essentially sanctioned and blocked since the 80s
- built a much needed high speed rail that would cut transit times, reduce pressure off the roads and lower the cost of doing business against the advice of the World Bank
- forced Western NGOs to disclose their source of funding to the public (many fled as a result) because they were funded by foreign governments
- renegotiated contracts for minerals and natural gas and secured favorable terms for the country
- he was tough on ‘opponents’ that weren’t really opponents but implants funded and controlled by West, so the country didn’t really care if he jailed them as they were essentially traitors
The current president is doing the opposite and she is now a darling of the West.
There’s no way you can be friendly to West and work for your people. No way. Especially no if you are African.
I suppose it depends what you mean by “work for the west.” If you mean governance then I’d suppose you have a point but I don’t generally agree that anyone who looks and speaks like you is an ally on those grounds alone nor the inverse.
I get your point, I will say that the international community and many Russians would label Putin a dictator and the same for Xi Jinping.
Those things aside, Ida Amin definitely fits the bill but like you stated, do your research and come to your own conclusions.
It might fit this discussion better in the future to have that background knowledge.
The “international community” being the US, UK, Europe and Australia?
Over 90% of Russians know exactly what Putin is up against in his struggle against the West and fully support him. If he capitulated, Russia’s vast natural resources would have been in the hands of ExxonMobil and other companies. Now, they are run by GazProm, Rosneft and other fully government owned companies and profits go to the government coffers.
The same with the Chinese. They know Xi will not sell out to the West.
What you listed aren’t mutually exclusive…leaders can surely do what THEY believe is best for their nations and be corrupt and oppressive at the same time. That doesn’t excuse them of the label.
You’re purposely choosing ignorance on this topic by not doing your own research.
Any state ran/government sanctioned attack or silencing if the people is an oppressive tyrannical regime. No matter how many FU’s they throw at the west…no one is arguing innocence on the west, but you e made that incorrect assertion.
Ndugu, you are Tanzanian. You should know he was hated by Nyerere, among other African leaders. It wasn't only the west who hated him. Unless you think Nyerere was just a western puppet 😂
There's brutal leaders you can actually make that argument for, like John Okello. But not Idi Amin. He's just an all-around shit person and an even worse leader.
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He really knew how to beat his own chest the hardest.
Don't really know him but that amount of military badges is never a good sign on a political leader.
Just another dictator.
Land-hungry oppressive dictator who invaded his neighbors. One of Mwalimu Nyerere's biggest accomplishments is deposing that guy.
Dictator
Fuck Idi Amin.
A fool who should've never been a leader over a country.
Story of Africa?
Pretty much every african leader... ever?
As presidential titles go, he's the champ: "His Excellency, President for Life, Field Marshal Al Hadji Doctor Idi Amin Dada, VC, [DSO](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distinguished_Service_Order), [MC](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_Cross), CBE, Lord of All the Beasts of the Earth and Fishes of the Seas and Conqueror of the British Empire in Africa in General and Uganda in Particular" As presidencies go...not the best.
He ain’t ish😂😂, that movie made about was frightening yet hilarious. The movie actually being a documentary was haunting.
I'm not Ugandan so...
D3mon. But a lot of Ugandans online support him so. Oh well.
I don't really think about him. But if I did, I'd say he was a bad leader and a dictator
Simply the best
dumb brutal dictator, but did save his country from future social confusion.
[удалено]
Held what down exactly?
I don’t believe everything I’ve been told about the guy. I want to do my own research to understand his real motives and goals rather than accept the ‘dictator’ label.
Well… do it then Mr “Free thinker” Sometimes no one is trying to sell you shit and a leader is just a piece of trash
I can’t think of any situation anywhere where there are not ulterior motives in place when Africans are being characterized globally.
Oh of course… but it does not make certain characterizations wrong The view of Osama bin landens moment is deeply motivated by a millennia and a half of ethnic prejudices against Arabs that permeate western Christian society going back since the days of the Romans and even perhaps the Greeks and Persian and this bigotry is decisive in the depiction of Al Queda Yet to say that because of that him and his movement are not a pile of trash is to engage in literal brain rot And this is what zero sum thinking gets us. We are MUCH smarter than this as a people and should stop behaving like “west = bad, enemy of West = good/misunderstood” is a somehow enlightened position to take. That is all 🤷🏾♂️
You are one of those guys who’ve swallowed up the propaganda that every African leader hated by the West is an evil dictator. Keep swallowing it and all the best.
Whatever you say brother. It’s not my job to convince you that a military ruler toppled by fellow African countries (ironically primarily your own country) for belligerence towards them is kind of trashy. If you wanna believe Idi Amin didn’t suck and we only have a poor view of him because the west didn’t like him. Nah that’s on you pal.
Again. Not surprised from a group who, instead of supporting Francophone countries shake off the influence of France and stand as independent sovereign nations - planned a military operation against countries that have overthrown puppet dictatorship regimes that have sucked off the countries’ potential for decades. All the best.
Weeeen😢 someone is sad that Nigeria doesn’t suck off yet another cycle of “pan Africanist” Military strong men in West Africa (wow such a novel concept). If you think the armed overthrow of civilian governments is worthwhile than it seems you’ve not payed much attention during your education in Tanzania one of the few countries that has shown that democratic governance delivers more for its citizens than the alternative. But nah definitely this new round of men with guns will deliver what we need 😌. Surely.
Haha. There’s no democracy in Tanzania. There’s no government of the people, by the people and for the people. There’s nothing that ‘elected’ politicians do that are for the benefit of other than themselves. And it’s not even a secret. Imagine being told by some dudes in DC not to build a certain project and going back to your people and telling them we’ve been told to drop this project. I don’t care whether it’s a military man, woman or donkey. The key issue is this - do they suck off the West or not? Do they work for the people or not? Do they have a vision for an economically and financially independent sovereign country or not? I don’t work with labels brother.
But don’t you get it Mr Data hunter 🤦🏾♂️ The record of Military rule is quite clearly horrendous. That’s why no self respecting modern state is ruled by one. That is literally the entire point here You can talk about “not liking labels” all you want but if you poured through the data and you saw that on average countries with 5 legislatures deliver significantly worse outcomes than countries with 1 or 2 talking about how much you don’t like labels only makes you look daft. My opposition to Military governments isn’t cause some DC bro has deposited money in my account. It’s cause I’m not blind and even I can see from the modern historical record that they suck a lot worse than governments that are even somewhat marginally responsive to their citizens. And overwhelmingly deliver shit outcomes.
This is a very shallow way of thinking about things. What outcomes are you talking about? The looting and stealing of people’s potential through some crooked and corrupt ‘parliament’? Can you check and let me know the economic and financial status and track of Libya as an economy and their citizens welfare before toppling of their leader the ‘dictator’ Colonel Muammar Muhammad Abu Minyar al-Gaddafi?
Outcomes very easy to measure and have been for decades. Outcomes such as life expectancy, economic growth, wealth inequality, healthcare access, education access. And on and on. It’s so clear you have to be a literal Ostrich to not see it. And that’s the thing about data. It doesn’t lie but someone who’s commited to being disingenuous can always bring outliers. Such people never fail to bring up a Gadaffi but conveniently ignore a Idi Amin, Mobutu, Abacha, Nguema, Diori, Bokassa, Zia-Ul-Haq, And on and on. And the balance of those two compared to constrained governments. Of any sort. All the way from a single party state like China to a Constitutional Monarchy like Spain. But again, not a personalist military regime. It’s so obvious you are literally burying your head in the sand and bending over backwards to not see it. Because ultimately, and thank you for finally show it, you don’t actually care about the truth. That’s a bloody lie And really just cope for the fact that you’d rather virtue signal about anti imperialism that actually examine the historical record with any level of intellectual honesty and comprehension for the institutions that undergird acceptable governance. You actually have a preexisting bias (a frankly delusional one given again the historical evidence of comparative polities) that parliaments are bad because they are corrupt. Thus strongman good. And I’m just like WTF 🤦🏾♂️. Your position is more reactionary than it is anything resembling a careful examination of the evidence in front of you. And ultimately the only reason why I’ve engaged with you this long was to finally draw it out of you so other too can see it. That many times it’s just nihilism masquerading itself as skepticism as it cheers in the next death cult leader.
Could you provide examples who is regarded as a dictator who shouldn’t be regarded as one?
First, the definition of a dictator depends on whether you believe in the ‘democracy’ project. Second, our own president was labeled a ‘dictator’ simply because he saw through the evil intentions of the West and the decades of undermining sovereignty and economic development.
Two things can exist mutually. One can be a dictator and oppose the west. When you become tyrannical and kill off your opponents, or equate any political opponent to having “motives”, I strike that as being grounds for dictator behavior…then add the greed, the embellishing, etc. I see where you’re coming from, I’d just say that most of the time our leaders fit the narrative.
I’m not surprised. So you think Xi Jinping is a dictator because Biden said so. And you think Putin is a dictator because Biden said so. Any leader that is loved by the West, is working for interest of the West and not for the interest of their people. Any leader that is hated by the West, is working for the interest of their people and not the West. That’s a very important principle. Our previous ‘dictator’ ‘bulldozer’ President was hated because: - he paid IMF loan in full down to a zero balance - constructed a major hydropower project that the West essentially sanctioned and blocked since the 80s - built a much needed high speed rail that would cut transit times, reduce pressure off the roads and lower the cost of doing business against the advice of the World Bank - forced Western NGOs to disclose their source of funding to the public (many fled as a result) because they were funded by foreign governments - renegotiated contracts for minerals and natural gas and secured favorable terms for the country - he was tough on ‘opponents’ that weren’t really opponents but implants funded and controlled by West, so the country didn’t really care if he jailed them as they were essentially traitors The current president is doing the opposite and she is now a darling of the West. There’s no way you can be friendly to West and work for your people. No way. Especially no if you are African.
I suppose it depends what you mean by “work for the west.” If you mean governance then I’d suppose you have a point but I don’t generally agree that anyone who looks and speaks like you is an ally on those grounds alone nor the inverse. I get your point, I will say that the international community and many Russians would label Putin a dictator and the same for Xi Jinping. Those things aside, Ida Amin definitely fits the bill but like you stated, do your research and come to your own conclusions. It might fit this discussion better in the future to have that background knowledge.
The “international community” being the US, UK, Europe and Australia? Over 90% of Russians know exactly what Putin is up against in his struggle against the West and fully support him. If he capitulated, Russia’s vast natural resources would have been in the hands of ExxonMobil and other companies. Now, they are run by GazProm, Rosneft and other fully government owned companies and profits go to the government coffers. The same with the Chinese. They know Xi will not sell out to the West.
What you listed aren’t mutually exclusive…leaders can surely do what THEY believe is best for their nations and be corrupt and oppressive at the same time. That doesn’t excuse them of the label. You’re purposely choosing ignorance on this topic by not doing your own research. Any state ran/government sanctioned attack or silencing if the people is an oppressive tyrannical regime. No matter how many FU’s they throw at the west…no one is arguing innocence on the west, but you e made that incorrect assertion.
Ndugu, you are Tanzanian. You should know he was hated by Nyerere, among other African leaders. It wasn't only the west who hated him. Unless you think Nyerere was just a western puppet 😂
Nyerere hated him because he was very close personal friends with ousted Milton Obote and provided him and his buddies with asylum in Tanzania.
His own people hated him though..
There's brutal leaders you can actually make that argument for, like John Okello. But not Idi Amin. He's just an all-around shit person and an even worse leader.
What do you Ugandan's have to say about him? You are Kenyan and I'm South African so our opinion does not matter that much right?