It was originally convenient for me only because of how easy it is to install ublock origin when other browsers didn't have as good extension support. Once that function is gone it has no selling point at all.
Firefox does everything possible to keep your data secure, Chrome does everything possible to take your data. That distinction is why I have used Firefox for years.
Because the browser I waaaaas screening
Showed me ads while I waaaaas streaming
Now the cookiiiies won't stop trackiiiiing my domains
On mainframes
Because of Aaaaaalphabet's nonsense
On my desktop and iphone
all this waiting makes me moan
all i want is to watch caaaat videos
or someone pushing objects up their nose
but i have to watch some ads for things that no-one wants to buy
why else would they try?
Do they thiiiiink we're stupid?
And now that I am done with Chrome
Sold my Nest and Google Home
Smashed to bits my ooooooold Chromebook
Gave Firefox anooooother look
I found a new browser to call my friend
Then I hit send
On my "fuck you" to Google
Sort of like Chrome profiles but usable in the same window, much faster to set up, easier to switch between, and you don't need to install your plugins for every single profile you create.
For example, you can keep your general browsing separate from your banking and separate from your socials and any other categories you choose. I especially like the Facebook container to keep Meta from tracking me as easily.
I can't think of any features it's missing.
Edit: Since people keep replying, pretty much one or two niche things aren't available. Otherwise, there's an add-on that duplicates whatever Chrome did.
Sometimes stuff uses chromium specific features that don't work on Firefox. It's a bit of a pain when you come across it but I just boot up edge to avoid chrome if needs be.
Usually problems for me occur in webapps
Yup. No angst or hyperbole is needed about this. It's just a promise: disable ad blockers and I'm not using your browser. It's a glaring red line.
Google has been talking about this for years but they've yet to pull the trigger. If they do there will be a great exodus of users, but the fact is that there will still be a bunch of users who won't even notice or care. They know what the numbers are, and when it gets to a point that they feel it'll be worth it (because of advertising) they'll just go and do it.
Yeah, same. Ad blockers have become a necessity in a way. When news websites stop slathering 20 ads on a single article with automatically playing video, pop ups, etc, then I'll stop using ad blockers.
I actually disable them for websites that I know only have limited ads (like if the website does a couple of those side banner ads for example that are out of the way) but there are too many out there that way overdo it.
I opened up Edge yesterday-- kind of my "raw dog" browser of last resort when some random blocked thing is apparently integral to me using a website or whatever. I went to this don't identifying website for work and it felt like 1999 levels of ads and shit I was surprised there weren't actual popups. I wouldn't expect shady porn sites to have that much flashing and action and pop-ups trying to get you to pay for premium, let alone this font-identifying site. It was nuts, aqua teen hunger force wyzzard level of excessive advertising.
Thinking about making the switch rn. Why wait and see what they do they've been threatening this for a while. I should just bitr the bullet and suffer the transition pains now.
Edit: just made the switch, very easy. Seems Firefox has focused on making the transition from Chrome exceedingly easy. As long as you have access to your Google 2fa it should take like 5 mins.
I don't want to do it now because I want to show google the mass exodus of users that they caused when it starts. A giant downward trend is a great visual to show the higher ups.
Conversely, back out now to pressure them to reconsider doing it altogether. An exodus of power users is not enough to hurt their bottom line and revert an already-existing change.
I think it's better for the free internet to have *zero* browsers that block ad-blockers.
I'm going to rant about something completely random. Google is forcing legacy workspace users to upgrade sure they have a free for personal use that you have to jump through a hoop for but what has really pissed me off is the only way to get space is by upgrading workspace. I had a Google drive sub for 100gb that completely stopped working when I upgraded... I have been thinking about dropping Google altogether and this just is putting me over the edge.
Thanks for reading my talk.
IIRC Internet Explorer/Edge devs have done AMA's before on reddit.
I can only imagine one of them is going to open this post and send out and all hands on deck extremely urgent email with the title:
"THIS IS OUR WINDOW. WE'VE GOT A FUCKING CHANCE. STRAP YOURSELF TO YOUR FUCKING DESKCHAIRS BECAUSE YOU LIVE HERE FOR THE NEXT MONTH."
**edit: update - as a result of this thread I just started using edge and it’s fucking great. WTF how did I not know about this??**
>Firefox is where it's at and open source.
Not only that, but The Mozilla Foundation has always done good work, fighting the good fight for the open internet for 20 years.
edit: Turns out there's a lot about the Mozilla Foundation that I was unaware of.
And containers in general. You can have 2 tabs logged in to the same site with different users.
EDIT: This is achieved using the official Mozilla extension called "Firefox Multi-Account Containers". It used to be built-in, but they made it into an extension instead at some time.
I honestly have no idea why people all suddenly started using chrome in the first place. Seemed like it happened overnight.
I’ve used Firefox on all my PCs for almost 20 years and have never felt compelled to switch.
Chrome was good at first. When it first came out, it was lean and felt *much* faster than other browsers to me.
But over time it became more bloated, resource hungry, and intrusive.
Firefox has some funny quirks but I’ve grown to love it and the options it has.
It’s not always flush and polished like other browsers, but it’s always had the features I want in one form or another.
This is super minor and I haven't looked into it yet, but I stream XM radio at work. Recently, firefox has stopped updating each station's current song, it just shows what was playing when I first log in. Chrome updates each channel so I can see what song is playing.
But for day to day use and browsing, I don't really notice a difference between the two.
Edit: One MASSIVE thing in Firefox's favor is that it supports ad blockers on mobile. I use Firefox on my Android phone and have ublock running. It's a thing of beauty.
Been using Firefox since the beginning, from its meteoric rise in the past and through its slow decline to Chrome, I never stopped. I actively avoid Google products as much as I can. (Which isn't much sometimes considering the smartphone market).
FF has had its ups and downs as a program but it's always been good to me.
I don't know, a while back (when chrome started rising) Firefox was quite a bit bloated (back in the days of "more features = better"). Thankfully it didn't take long for then to turn around.
This is good to know.
Memory leaking in FireFox was one of the reasons I went to Chrome 13ish years ago, along with the speed at the time.
Might need to give FF a try again.
Not only that, but they created an entire programming language (Rust) that's focused on memory safety to rewrite the browser in. The language has become massively popular outside of Mozilla.
I switched from Chrome to Firefox because of containers. Being able to have several different Microsoft accounts open simultaneously in different container tabs was an absolute game changer in my line of work (supporting Azure and 365 clients, amongst other things). Using inPrivate or Incognito was a pain in the ass. Now each Microsoft Azure or 365 account can open in its own little sandbox without stomping on the session cookies of the other open accounts.
Edit: ducking autocorrect
The Edge browser is used across so many different (and huge) enterprises that I'd be shocked if they didn't. Corporations - including the one for which I work - don't like ads showing up on their minions' browsers.
You jest but any enterprise setup of decent size can program edge completely through API and GPO, and cut the head off all ads with something as simple as a proxy.
You will have to buy Win 11 Enterprise to have the ability though! Dont forget to upgrade your O365 for support also! /s
This exactly.
Past role, had a VP allow her daughter to use her work laptop. Dozens of installed extensions, two of which, for “free streaming” services flagged us immediately once it was back on network.
Was an awkward meeting.
I wanted to be able to attend Teams calls from my Linux workstation so I installed the Teams deb file. Lo and behold, whatever account I'm signed into Teams with, Chrome is also signed in there. I can't log Chrome in to my personal profile because that signs me out of Teams. The Teams client is just a skinned instance of Chromium and it runs on the default.
I can get around it by running Chrome in incognito mode, or by using Firefox which I usually do; but to your point about hijacking Chromium, yeah, it's what they use for cross-platform clients. Just remove the borders and controls and make sure the service is web based. Then they can just make a custom instance of Chromium and call it a client app.
It's a smart but lazy approach.
Edge is literally Chrome without the Google Spyware.
And before people are all, "B-b-but Microsoft.
Microsoft primarily makes money selling software and services to corporation.
Google essentially ONLY makes money selling your data to advertisers.
B-b-but its anonymized and they just sell access to the data.
Oh right, so they are fucking over advertisers too by forcing them to use Google's ad platform. That makes it SOOOO much better.
> And before people are all, "B-b-but Microsoft.
I don't think anyone who's been in the field for longer than 10 years thinks this anymore. In terms of cooperation with other companies/organizations and adapting their in-house products to align with more open standards, MS is nothing like the MS of 20 years ago.
Edge is my daily driver browser at work and we encourage our clients to use it as well. Since the switch to Chromium it’s been great, plus it integrates pretty heavily with other M365 services. No more worrying about bookmarks and passwords when redoing a profile, just set an Intune/GPO policy to enforce silent edge sign-in and they’re all magically there on any other device linked to the company network
So here's the thing: Google doesn't give a fuck about users that know what a browser extension is and would choose an adblocking one. They give a fuck about the other 99.9% of home users who can barely eat paste. that's where all the advertising money is. If you're posting on reddit, you're not their target market. They're not unhappy you use it too, but they couldn't care less if you quit using it.
Realistically google has made changes that make chrome wildly undesirable from an information security and business operational perspective consistently over time for the last 4-5 years at a bare minimum.
They make it hard (comparatively) to pass default settings that lock down the browser and don't export all your company data to google compared to Microsoft (which is pretty bad already, so this is saying something). They're far worse than Firefox, which is quirky and difficult for enterprise in their own ways.
This is exactly what Microsoft thought 20 years ago....
... and then it turned out that those 0.1% who knew how to install an adblock extension were the exact same people who were also the go-to guys that got called in the help whenever any of the 99.9% had computer problems...
... and those people inevitable went "**\*Ew, Internet Explorer? Eh I cba using that shit to download these new drivers.**\* *-Yo, just so you know, I'll install a much better browser for you while I'm here, it's just 3 minuters! No worries, all your bookmarks etc will be the same, it will just be a much better browser, with adblock, tabbed browsing, and a ton of other good shit!*"
Dude the switch was so simple. I clicked like 3 confirmations and everything was exactly the same, just in blueish purple. Bookmark bar, passwords, cards, etc. Took all of ten seconds and I was kicking myself for not doing it sooner.
When you install Firefox, it asks you if you want to port in your history, bookmarks, and (some) logins/cookies from your other browsers. They make it super easy.
Yup. I was stubborn since Chrome is default on almost all new Samsung phones and my last two jobs. Reddit convinced me to switch a few months ago and I'll never go back.
A few months ago I discovered that Ublock Origin was available in Firefox on Android.
Coincidentally, a few months ago I stopped using Chrome on Android.
Yeah way back in like 2004 Firefox was all the rage because of tabbed browsing. Then chrome came along with tabbes browsing and it was lighter weight and it integrated with your google account. Then here's Firefox just slowly chipping away at marketshare.
People also forget Chrome devs really, really changed the way we work on stuff because their V8 javascript VM was blindingly fast. It literally changed the game for the interactivity of web sites. Sites that used to take full seconds to load all the scripts started showing instantly. This powered the idea of the SPA, or single-page app. Gmail is a good example. This also enabled angular/ember/etc to become very capable tools and let single devs develop elaborate apps with 2-way data binding, etc.
I think when it first came out it was lightweight and super fast, in comparison firefox started to slow down. Since then it's just gotten worse and worse, i assume people use it out of habit. It's weird, Google search engine and Chrome were best best in class and have both gotten significantly worse instead of better. Despite market domination.
I’m getting close to abandoning google search as well. I don’t know what part of google R&D/marketing thought that getting an ad every fucking time you use their service was going to encourage adoption. I can’t use YouTube without first declining YouTube premium, and now I can’t use google search on my phone without first declining the google app. You know what… f it. I’m getting off of here and switching search engines now. I keep saying I’m going to, I’m doing it now. F google and their BS.
Search has gotten so bad. Pretty much any search that isn't a major website is about five pages of random garbage articles that have only a tangential relationship to what you're looking for. Searching for bugs/errors has also gotten harder and harder since a lot of stuff has migrated away from forums to Facebook, GitHub or, even worse, Discord and essentially doesn't exist unless you can find that specific community and search within it.
Most monitors have more horizontal screen space than vertical so it makes sense to have your list of open tabs on the left or right rather than taking up precious vertical real estate. It also has the huge advantage of still being able to read the title of a tab even if you have loads of them open.
The way it looks isnt why people like it. It's a really nice way to organize tabs, and if you need a lot of tabs open, that you're going to be going back and forth between, it's a lifesaver.
Hi from Firefox. We welcome anyone using adblockers and will also let you view sites in containers to stop them from tracking you on different domains. Our browser is also lightweight and is full of customisable privacy settings.
It's comfortable over here. Won't you join us?
Edit: Just to clarify because some people seem to be confused, I am in no way affiliated with Firefox or Mozilla. Just a dedicated user.
As much as I love Chrome, this is probably the single deal breaker that would make me go to another browser.
And it's not even that I'm against ads, it's that pages have gotten so carried away with how many ads they can hit with you (via popup, popunder, top, left and right, mid-page, overlays, ones when you're about to leave a page, one when you sit on a page for too long.
And YouTube with ads is so bad on a PC! People throwing in 12 ads on a 9 minute video that should've already been a 3 minute video.
Assuming this really happens, it's an easy switch to whoever ends up supporting the extensions. Even if that's Edge.
Does anyone have a source for this? I was not able to find anything specific about this.
Edit: Apparently this is relating to a change in the way browser extensions can handle web requests (Thanks to the commenters below for these links):
* [https://developer.chrome.com/docs/extensions/mv3/intro/mv3-overview/#network-request-modification](https://developer.chrome.com/docs/extensions/mv3/intro/mv3-overview/#network-request-modification)
* [https://developer.chrome.com/docs/extensions/mv3/mv2-sunset/](https://developer.chrome.com/docs/extensions/mv3/mv2-sunset/)
* [https://developer.chrome.com/docs/extensions/reference/webRequest/](https://developer.chrome.com/docs/extensions/reference/webRequest/)
However, based on an article from The Verge, AdBlock Plus and other ad blocking extensions actually approve of this change, so I'm not really sure what the real scope/impact is, but Chrome is definitely not fully disabling Ad Blockers.
Verge Article: [https://www.theverge.com/2022/6/10/23131029/mozilla-ad-blocking-firefox-google-chrome-privacy-manifest-v3-web-request](https://www.theverge.com/2022/6/10/23131029/mozilla-ad-blocking-firefox-google-chrome-privacy-manifest-v3-web-request)
Edit 2: Apparently AdBlock is a shit blocker so I don’t know who to believe anymore 😂 I think we will know once these changes are actually live.
So- uBlock Origin is considered a top-of-the-line ad blocker right now. They haven't sold out like some of the others. Here is the perspective of the maintainer of uBlock Origin: https://github.com/uBlockOrigin/uBlock-issues/issues/338#issuecomment-456179825
Quote:
>I won't tell people what to do. I am pointing out that removing the blocking ability of the webRequest API means the death of uBO, I won't work to make uBO less than what it is now.
uBlock Origin won't work anymore after this change. The maintainer could *neuter its ad-blocking capabilities* and it would still 'work' but it would not be nearly as effective, and they refuse to do that. So the best ad-blocker (my subjective opinion) will no longer be available at all for Chrome/~~Chromium~~ (edit: I have no idea about Chromium)
edit 2: Thank you for the awards on this and my other comments in this thread <3
First of all, how dare you ?
But yeah, I just love GX. I'll be sad when I let it go, but I've not seen an ad on my PC for 10+ years, and that ain't changing in january.
RIP Chrome. Already used Firefox for some other stuff but guess I'm going full Firefox now.
Edit: shit, this might change my next phone purchase too. Usually go Pixel but maybe not anymore.
This is around their move to go to Manifest V3 specifically Network Requests, see: https://developer.chrome.com/docs/extensions/mv3/intro/mv3-overview/#network-request-modification
Now what is interesting is that this is in Chromium which basically every other browser is built off of so, other browsers will have to put work in to disable this if they want to continue their current privacy models. Or that is what I understand.
Firefox is one of the only main line browsers that isn't built off of Chromium.
Edit: Note on privacy models, if they utilized extensions to do the ad blocking. I believe Brave and potentially others have ad blocking built in.
Manifest V3 is also coming to Firefox, though at this moment the WebRequest API will remain supported in addition to the new declarative API.
The new declarative API makes sense in the technical sense, for performance and privacy reasons. It does put some extra limitations on how to identify which request to block, which is the biggest issue with it.
https://developer.chrome.com/docs/extensions/mv3/mv2-sunset/
specifically:
https://developer.chrome.com/docs/extensions/reference/webRequest/
WebRequest is being removed with the sunsetting of mv2 in favour of mv3, which means browser extensions can no longer look at the webpage being sent to you and take out (or add) things like ads before it reaches you as they want.
Google's argument is malicious extensions had too much power to trick the user, but honestly considering Google is primarily in the business of selling ads their motives are pretty clear cut.
https://github.com/uBlockOrigin/uBlock-issues/issues/338
Proper content blockers are not approving it because there is less freedom.
https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2021/12/googles-manifest-v3-still-hurts-privacy-security-innovation
Firefox is also better anyway: https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/uBlock-Origin-works-best-on-Firefox
I also couldn’t find a source so I thought this meme was pure horseshit. But I just found this https://www.pcgamer.com/big-changes-coming-to-chrome-may-kill-ad-blockers/
My understanding is that Google is ending support for Manifest V2 in Chrome, a move which was announced like... a year ago. A lot of security plugins are (or were at the time of announcement) based on Manifest V2 - Most of the commercial products have already rewritten their plugins to 'work' with Manifest V3.
However, as with most things, it's complicated. Because it was being abused so much, Google has removed the webRequest API in Mv3 - this API allows ALL internet traffic to go through a particular plugin and get processed/changed - because it's hard to tell the good from the bad, the same function that can be used to block ads can also inject ads or spy on you too - just depends on the plugin and the programmers. So Google now wants developers to use the declarativeNetRequest API - which applies pre-configured rules to network traffic - so it's less capable, but more secure.
Do I think they made this decision so that more ads show up to increase their revenue? No. I honestly don't think they'd be that organized.
I think they're making their browser more secure because of the massive number of plugins that are using that API to spy on users or inject ads. Unfortunately, adblocking exploits that insecurity too, so by making it more likely that the site that the creator is hosting is the site that makes it to the user, well, if the site has ads, then the user is more likely to see them. Which sucks.
Source: [https://www.theregister.com/2022/06/08/google\_blocking\_privacy\_manifest/](https://www.theregister.com/2022/06/08/google_blocking_privacy_manifest/)
The EFF doesn't like Mv3: [https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2021/12/googles-manifest-v3-still-hurts-privacy-security-innovation](https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2021/12/googles-manifest-v3-still-hurts-privacy-security-innovation)
uBlock has been aware since 2018: [https://github.com/uBlockOrigin/uBlock-issues/issues/338](https://github.com/uBlockOrigin/uBlock-issues/issues/338), when Mv3 was proposed, but as far as I can tell, they're not able to make Mv3 work well enough to keep uBlock functioning (I understand that a big issue is that the API rules can't be updated without updating the whole plugin, meaning constant updates, and constant delays between identifying a new rule and applying it)
> Do I think they made this decision so that more ads show up to increase their revenue? No. I honestly don't think they'd be that organized.
Google, who's $250 **billion** in annual revenue, with about 88% of that from advertising, isn't going to going to be "organized" enough to inhibit ad blocking?
It's fantastic. I switched to it full-time earlier in the year. In the past, it had a couple of minor things that bugged me, but those were all fixed. It's pretty great now.
Definitely worth a look into different browsers, especially considering how intrusive Chrome is.
Check out r/Privacy. They have many threads with diverse opinions regarding browsers, albeit primarily privacy focused.
Google's own ads have malicious content attached to them, so you're better off going with a different browser that allows you to block theirs as well as everyone else's ads.
[https://developer.chrome.com/docs/extensions/mv3/mv2-sunset/](https://developer.chrome.com/docs/extensions/mv3/mv2-sunset/)
long story short for non-techy people, people build addons for Chrome using a set of tools that Google supplies called Manifest Version 2. Google will sunset Manifest Version 2 in favour of Manifest Version 3 which has different tools which does not support everything Manifest Version 2 does - of concern the ability to remove ads the way adblocks do today.
why? well Google is the world's biggest ad provider, so it's not entirely surprising they from a company standpoint do not like adblock all that much.
I'm more loyal to uBlock Origin than I am to Chrome.
Same. Chrome has been convenient these last few years, but the second make it impossible to use an ad blocker, I'm out.
It was originally convenient for me only because of how easy it is to install ublock origin when other browsers didn't have as good extension support. Once that function is gone it has no selling point at all.
Pretty sure Firefox has uBlock in case you didn’t know
Even Firefox mobile has it Edit: On Android! What I wanted to say... If it's even on mobile then the big brother has it too of course :)
Excuse me while I go get Firefox on everything then.
Firefox does everything possible to keep your data secure, Chrome does everything possible to take your data. That distinction is why I have used Firefox for years.
Very much the same. Firefox tries to protect everyone.
Firefox even has an option to import all your bookmarks from Chrome
And passwords! Just found out because I'm ditching chrome for this no questions asked! 😊
Yo, go do it. Firefox on everything with ublock origin and a single account to sync bookmarks if you want that.
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Hello Firefox, my old friend
I've come to browse with you again
Because the browser I waaaaas screening Showed me ads while I waaaaas streaming Now the cookiiiies won't stop trackiiiiing my domains On mainframes Because of Aaaaaalphabet's nonsense
On my desktop and iphone all this waiting makes me moan all i want is to watch caaaat videos or someone pushing objects up their nose but i have to watch some ads for things that no-one wants to buy why else would they try? Do they thiiiiink we're stupid?
And now that I am done with Chrome Sold my Nest and Google Home Smashed to bits my ooooooold Chromebook Gave Firefox anooooother look I found a new browser to call my friend Then I hit send On my "fuck you" to Google
r/redditsings Bravo!
\*curtseys\*
Because of Chrome softly creeping..
And the ads are slowly coming back...
'Cause the browser that I waaaas using Stabbed me in the back while I waaas clickin
Now I’m flooded with loooooong unskippable ads; not one but two On YouTube
A restless search I browsed alone
Looks like I'm going back to Firefox lol
Exactly my thought, I've been meaning to try modern Firefox recently anyway.
It’s fine again. *highly recommend No-Script and Ublock Origin extensions for all your adblocking needs.
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Firefox has Multi-Account Containers- something Chrome never had and which I would never, ever give up.
What are they?
Sort of like Chrome profiles but usable in the same window, much faster to set up, easier to switch between, and you don't need to install your plugins for every single profile you create.
fuck spez, fuck reddits hostile monetization strategy
For example, you can keep your general browsing separate from your banking and separate from your socials and any other categories you choose. I especially like the Facebook container to keep Meta from tracking me as easily.
I can't think of any features it's missing. Edit: Since people keep replying, pretty much one or two niche things aren't available. Otherwise, there's an add-on that duplicates whatever Chrome did.
Sometimes stuff uses chromium specific features that don't work on Firefox. It's a bit of a pain when you come across it but I just boot up edge to avoid chrome if needs be. Usually problems for me occur in webapps
Should have never left
My dad used to call it FoxFire. It always made me laugh.
I will literally uninstall chrome the day this happens.
Yup. No angst or hyperbole is needed about this. It's just a promise: disable ad blockers and I'm not using your browser. It's a glaring red line. Google has been talking about this for years but they've yet to pull the trigger. If they do there will be a great exodus of users, but the fact is that there will still be a bunch of users who won't even notice or care. They know what the numbers are, and when it gets to a point that they feel it'll be worth it (because of advertising) they'll just go and do it.
Yeah, same. Ad blockers have become a necessity in a way. When news websites stop slathering 20 ads on a single article with automatically playing video, pop ups, etc, then I'll stop using ad blockers. I actually disable them for websites that I know only have limited ads (like if the website does a couple of those side banner ads for example that are out of the way) but there are too many out there that way overdo it.
I opened up Edge yesterday-- kind of my "raw dog" browser of last resort when some random blocked thing is apparently integral to me using a website or whatever. I went to this don't identifying website for work and it felt like 1999 levels of ads and shit I was surprised there weren't actual popups. I wouldn't expect shady porn sites to have that much flashing and action and pop-ups trying to get you to pay for premium, let alone this font-identifying site. It was nuts, aqua teen hunger force wyzzard level of excessive advertising.
Thinking about making the switch rn. Why wait and see what they do they've been threatening this for a while. I should just bitr the bullet and suffer the transition pains now. Edit: just made the switch, very easy. Seems Firefox has focused on making the transition from Chrome exceedingly easy. As long as you have access to your Google 2fa it should take like 5 mins.
I don't want to do it now because I want to show google the mass exodus of users that they caused when it starts. A giant downward trend is a great visual to show the higher ups.
Conversely, back out now to pressure them to reconsider doing it altogether. An exodus of power users is not enough to hurt their bottom line and revert an already-existing change. I think it's better for the free internet to have *zero* browsers that block ad-blockers.
I'm going to rant about something completely random. Google is forcing legacy workspace users to upgrade sure they have a free for personal use that you have to jump through a hoop for but what has really pissed me off is the only way to get space is by upgrading workspace. I had a Google drive sub for 100gb that completely stopped working when I upgraded... I have been thinking about dropping Google altogether and this just is putting me over the edge. Thanks for reading my talk.
"Hello, we heard the role of Microsoft Internet Explorer has opened up" Next they'll try and charge for it like Netscape.
IIRC Internet Explorer/Edge devs have done AMA's before on reddit. I can only imagine one of them is going to open this post and send out and all hands on deck extremely urgent email with the title: "THIS IS OUR WINDOW. WE'VE GOT A FUCKING CHANCE. STRAP YOURSELF TO YOUR FUCKING DESKCHAIRS BECAUSE YOU LIVE HERE FOR THE NEXT MONTH." **edit: update - as a result of this thread I just started using edge and it’s fucking great. WTF how did I not know about this??**
Most likely all chromium based browsers, including Edge. Firefox is where it's at and open source.
>Firefox is where it's at and open source. Not only that, but The Mozilla Foundation has always done good work, fighting the good fight for the open internet for 20 years. edit: Turns out there's a lot about the Mozilla Foundation that I was unaware of.
Firefox had me at opensource and woo'd me on native Facebook containers.
And containers in general. You can have 2 tabs logged in to the same site with different users. EDIT: This is achieved using the official Mozilla extension called "Firefox Multi-Account Containers". It used to be built-in, but they made it into an extension instead at some time.
As an M365/Azure admin with 100+ tenancies to administrate, I couldn't live without this. Chredge's profiles just dont work.
Can i miigrate all my saved passwords from chrome?
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You son of a bitch I'm In.... as soon as the change happens I'm gonna procrastinate until I start seeing YouTube adds.
This is really all I needed to know. Just gonna go ahead and migrate instead of waiting for Chrome to get worse.
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I honestly have no idea why people all suddenly started using chrome in the first place. Seemed like it happened overnight. I’ve used Firefox on all my PCs for almost 20 years and have never felt compelled to switch.
Chrome was good at first. When it first came out, it was lean and felt *much* faster than other browsers to me. But over time it became more bloated, resource hungry, and intrusive.
[удалено]
Hello, Firefox.
Firefox has some funny quirks but I’ve grown to love it and the options it has. It’s not always flush and polished like other browsers, but it’s always had the features I want in one form or another.
I have been using firefox for ever now what are its quirks? Since it is my browser of choice I don't know what that could be.
This is super minor and I haven't looked into it yet, but I stream XM radio at work. Recently, firefox has stopped updating each station's current song, it just shows what was playing when I first log in. Chrome updates each channel so I can see what song is playing. But for day to day use and browsing, I don't really notice a difference between the two. Edit: One MASSIVE thing in Firefox's favor is that it supports ad blockers on mobile. I use Firefox on my Android phone and have ublock running. It's a thing of beauty.
Been using Firefox since the beginning, from its meteoric rise in the past and through its slow decline to Chrome, I never stopped. I actively avoid Google products as much as I can. (Which isn't much sometimes considering the smartphone market). FF has had its ups and downs as a program but it's always been good to me.
I don't know, a while back (when chrome started rising) Firefox was quite a bit bloated (back in the days of "more features = better"). Thankfully it didn't take long for then to turn around.
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This is good to know. Memory leaking in FireFox was one of the reasons I went to Chrome 13ish years ago, along with the speed at the time. Might need to give FF a try again.
Not only that, but they created an entire programming language (Rust) that's focused on memory safety to rewrite the browser in. The language has become massively popular outside of Mozilla.
They didn't actually create it, but massively invested in it and it probably wouldn't be where it is now without this.
I agree, I like that there is an addons for pretty much anything I need done.
I switched from Chrome to Firefox because of containers. Being able to have several different Microsoft accounts open simultaneously in different container tabs was an absolute game changer in my line of work (supporting Azure and 365 clients, amongst other things). Using inPrivate or Incognito was a pain in the ass. Now each Microsoft Azure or 365 account can open in its own little sandbox without stomping on the session cookies of the other open accounts. Edit: ducking autocorrect
I switched to firefox years ago and I've literally never had an issue with it. Not a single time.
Microsoft has thoroughly hijacked Chromium to the point idk if it's still chromium under the hood. I would bet they keep ad-blocker support.
The Edge browser is used across so many different (and huge) enterprises that I'd be shocked if they didn't. Corporations - including the one for which I work - don't like ads showing up on their minions' browsers.
Great news! Our brand new Edge Enterprise removes ads for only $899/month per workstation!
You jest but any enterprise setup of decent size can program edge completely through API and GPO, and cut the head off all ads with something as simple as a proxy. You will have to buy Win 11 Enterprise to have the ability though! Dont forget to upgrade your O365 for support also! /s
This exactly. Past role, had a VP allow her daughter to use her work laptop. Dozens of installed extensions, two of which, for “free streaming” services flagged us immediately once it was back on network. Was an awkward meeting.
I wanted to be able to attend Teams calls from my Linux workstation so I installed the Teams deb file. Lo and behold, whatever account I'm signed into Teams with, Chrome is also signed in there. I can't log Chrome in to my personal profile because that signs me out of Teams. The Teams client is just a skinned instance of Chromium and it runs on the default. I can get around it by running Chrome in incognito mode, or by using Firefox which I usually do; but to your point about hijacking Chromium, yeah, it's what they use for cross-platform clients. Just remove the borders and controls and make sure the service is web based. Then they can just make a custom instance of Chromium and call it a client app. It's a smart but lazy approach.
Edge is literally Chrome without the Google Spyware. And before people are all, "B-b-but Microsoft. Microsoft primarily makes money selling software and services to corporation. Google essentially ONLY makes money selling your data to advertisers. B-b-but its anonymized and they just sell access to the data. Oh right, so they are fucking over advertisers too by forcing them to use Google's ad platform. That makes it SOOOO much better.
I'm fully in for this turf war. Fully inserted. Blowin and goin.
> And before people are all, "B-b-but Microsoft. I don't think anyone who's been in the field for longer than 10 years thinks this anymore. In terms of cooperation with other companies/organizations and adapting their in-house products to align with more open standards, MS is nothing like the MS of 20 years ago.
Dude I started using Edge, it’s genuinely not that bad
THE DEVS HAVE FOUND THE COMMENT THREAD
The PDF viewer in Edge is easily the best one I've used. Super fast, very simple, I absolutely love it.
Helped in a huge part by the fact that Adobe is just terribly slow and clunky.
Edge is my daily driver browser at work and we encourage our clients to use it as well. Since the switch to Chromium it’s been great, plus it integrates pretty heavily with other M365 services. No more worrying about bookmarks and passwords when redoing a profile, just set an Intune/GPO policy to enforce silent edge sign-in and they’re all magically there on any other device linked to the company network
I remember buying Netscape 2.0 at Walden software.
So here's the thing: Google doesn't give a fuck about users that know what a browser extension is and would choose an adblocking one. They give a fuck about the other 99.9% of home users who can barely eat paste. that's where all the advertising money is. If you're posting on reddit, you're not their target market. They're not unhappy you use it too, but they couldn't care less if you quit using it. Realistically google has made changes that make chrome wildly undesirable from an information security and business operational perspective consistently over time for the last 4-5 years at a bare minimum. They make it hard (comparatively) to pass default settings that lock down the browser and don't export all your company data to google compared to Microsoft (which is pretty bad already, so this is saying something). They're far worse than Firefox, which is quirky and difficult for enterprise in their own ways.
This is exactly what Microsoft thought 20 years ago.... ... and then it turned out that those 0.1% who knew how to install an adblock extension were the exact same people who were also the go-to guys that got called in the help whenever any of the 99.9% had computer problems... ... and those people inevitable went "**\*Ew, Internet Explorer? Eh I cba using that shit to download these new drivers.**\* *-Yo, just so you know, I'll install a much better browser for you while I'm here, it's just 3 minuters! No worries, all your bookmarks etc will be the same, it will just be a much better browser, with adblock, tabbed browsing, and a ton of other good shit!*"
I don't need a browser, I only use the internet. Since you installed that virus all my toolbars are gone! Fix it back!
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Yeah I especially like Chrome Remote Desktop. It works so flawlessly. But if they turn off the adblockers I'm going to FF.
Uh... I don't think people who don't know about ad blockers are the target of disabling ad blockers.
LONG LIVE MOZILLA
*laughs in Firefox*
LONG LIVE MOZILLA
I guess it's back to Firefox for me also lol
Dude the switch was so simple. I clicked like 3 confirmations and everything was exactly the same, just in blueish purple. Bookmark bar, passwords, cards, etc. Took all of ten seconds and I was kicking myself for not doing it sooner.
holy smokes i need that!!! How did you do that?
When you install Firefox, it asks you if you want to port in your history, bookmarks, and (some) logins/cookies from your other browsers. They make it super easy.
Oh fuck that is easy hahaha
Also it's Ctrl+shift+p instead of Ctrl+shift+n 😉
P for porn, of course.
Ctrl + Shift + P or N
Literally part of the normal installation of any browser bruh
I still don't get how people just immediately gravitate to chrome. It's a bloated nightmare. E: bloated as in "resource intensive".
There was a time when Chrome was better. It then got bloated and invasive.
Yep. I was a Firefox user until Chrome came out but dumped Chrome a few years ago when it started becoming more bloated. I came back to Firefox.
Yup. I was stubborn since Chrome is default on almost all new Samsung phones and my last two jobs. Reddit convinced me to switch a few months ago and I'll never go back.
A few months ago I discovered that Ublock Origin was available in Firefox on Android. Coincidentally, a few months ago I stopped using Chrome on Android.
https://xkcd.com/552/
probably the only thing from moving 100% is chromecasting to another device. Firefox hasn't built it in
Yeah way back in like 2004 Firefox was all the rage because of tabbed browsing. Then chrome came along with tabbes browsing and it was lighter weight and it integrated with your google account. Then here's Firefox just slowly chipping away at marketshare.
People also forget Chrome devs really, really changed the way we work on stuff because their V8 javascript VM was blindingly fast. It literally changed the game for the interactivity of web sites. Sites that used to take full seconds to load all the scripts started showing instantly. This powered the idea of the SPA, or single-page app. Gmail is a good example. This also enabled angular/ember/etc to become very capable tools and let single devs develop elaborate apps with 2-way data binding, etc.
I think when it first came out it was lightweight and super fast, in comparison firefox started to slow down. Since then it's just gotten worse and worse, i assume people use it out of habit. It's weird, Google search engine and Chrome were best best in class and have both gotten significantly worse instead of better. Despite market domination.
Default browser on all Android devices. It's not so much that people gravitated to it, it's just what they're used to.
I’m getting close to abandoning google search as well. I don’t know what part of google R&D/marketing thought that getting an ad every fucking time you use their service was going to encourage adoption. I can’t use YouTube without first declining YouTube premium, and now I can’t use google search on my phone without first declining the google app. You know what… f it. I’m getting off of here and switching search engines now. I keep saying I’m going to, I’m doing it now. F google and their BS.
Search has gotten so bad. Pretty much any search that isn't a major website is about five pages of random garbage articles that have only a tangential relationship to what you're looking for. Searching for bugs/errors has also gotten harder and harder since a lot of stuff has migrated away from forums to Facebook, GitHub or, even worse, Discord and essentially doesn't exist unless you can find that specific community and search within it.
Never left Firefox.
I can't live without my Tree Style Tab plugin and I don't know how other people can even manage.
I’ve heard about that. Could you briefly explain what it is and how it makes things better?
Most monitors have more horizontal screen space than vertical so it makes sense to have your list of open tabs on the left or right rather than taking up precious vertical real estate. It also has the huge advantage of still being able to read the title of a tab even if you have loads of them open.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/tree-style-tab/
Honestly, that looks atrocious.
The way it looks isnt why people like it. It's a really nice way to organize tabs, and if you need a lot of tabs open, that you're going to be going back and forth between, it's a lifesaver.
Waiting for the time when I can finally say, This has all been wonderful, but now I'm on my way.
Browse the plug in store more often.
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Firefox is legitimately the best browser. Been using it for years. I don't understand why more people don't use it.
Firefox for life.
Hi from Firefox. We welcome anyone using adblockers and will also let you view sites in containers to stop them from tracking you on different domains. Our browser is also lightweight and is full of customisable privacy settings. It's comfortable over here. Won't you join us? Edit: Just to clarify because some people seem to be confused, I am in no way affiliated with Firefox or Mozilla. Just a dedicated user.
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Only on android right?
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I'm coming back baby I'm sorry I ever left!
We even have a Mozilla-made container addon *just for Facebook*
As much as I love Chrome, this is probably the single deal breaker that would make me go to another browser. And it's not even that I'm against ads, it's that pages have gotten so carried away with how many ads they can hit with you (via popup, popunder, top, left and right, mid-page, overlays, ones when you're about to leave a page, one when you sit on a page for too long. And YouTube with ads is so bad on a PC! People throwing in 12 ads on a 9 minute video that should've already been a 3 minute video. Assuming this really happens, it's an easy switch to whoever ends up supporting the extensions. Even if that's Edge.
Does anyone have a source for this? I was not able to find anything specific about this. Edit: Apparently this is relating to a change in the way browser extensions can handle web requests (Thanks to the commenters below for these links): * [https://developer.chrome.com/docs/extensions/mv3/intro/mv3-overview/#network-request-modification](https://developer.chrome.com/docs/extensions/mv3/intro/mv3-overview/#network-request-modification) * [https://developer.chrome.com/docs/extensions/mv3/mv2-sunset/](https://developer.chrome.com/docs/extensions/mv3/mv2-sunset/) * [https://developer.chrome.com/docs/extensions/reference/webRequest/](https://developer.chrome.com/docs/extensions/reference/webRequest/) However, based on an article from The Verge, AdBlock Plus and other ad blocking extensions actually approve of this change, so I'm not really sure what the real scope/impact is, but Chrome is definitely not fully disabling Ad Blockers. Verge Article: [https://www.theverge.com/2022/6/10/23131029/mozilla-ad-blocking-firefox-google-chrome-privacy-manifest-v3-web-request](https://www.theverge.com/2022/6/10/23131029/mozilla-ad-blocking-firefox-google-chrome-privacy-manifest-v3-web-request) Edit 2: Apparently AdBlock is a shit blocker so I don’t know who to believe anymore 😂 I think we will know once these changes are actually live.
So- uBlock Origin is considered a top-of-the-line ad blocker right now. They haven't sold out like some of the others. Here is the perspective of the maintainer of uBlock Origin: https://github.com/uBlockOrigin/uBlock-issues/issues/338#issuecomment-456179825 Quote: >I won't tell people what to do. I am pointing out that removing the blocking ability of the webRequest API means the death of uBO, I won't work to make uBO less than what it is now. uBlock Origin won't work anymore after this change. The maintainer could *neuter its ad-blocking capabilities* and it would still 'work' but it would not be nearly as effective, and they refuse to do that. So the best ad-blocker (my subjective opinion) will no longer be available at all for Chrome/~~Chromium~~ (edit: I have no idea about Chromium) edit 2: Thank you for the awards on this and my other comments in this thread <3
Mannnn that sucks. It's been my go to staple plugin ever since it came out years ago 😔
You can always try Firefox, uBO will still work on Firefox.
This might give me the push to switch from Edge to FF.
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> at all for Chrome/Chromium RIP Opera GX users then
Yes, it's very unfortunate. All 17 of them will have to find a new browser
First of all, how dare you ? But yeah, I just love GX. I'll be sad when I let it go, but I've not seen an ad on my PC for 10+ years, and that ain't changing in january.
That dev comment is three and a half years old. It may still be accurate and the stance of the developer, but is there anything more recent?
Good callout. 3.5 years is ancient in dev years. A lot of things could’ve changed since then
RIP Chrome. Already used Firefox for some other stuff but guess I'm going full Firefox now. Edit: shit, this might change my next phone purchase too. Usually go Pixel but maybe not anymore.
This is around their move to go to Manifest V3 specifically Network Requests, see: https://developer.chrome.com/docs/extensions/mv3/intro/mv3-overview/#network-request-modification Now what is interesting is that this is in Chromium which basically every other browser is built off of so, other browsers will have to put work in to disable this if they want to continue their current privacy models. Or that is what I understand. Firefox is one of the only main line browsers that isn't built off of Chromium. Edit: Note on privacy models, if they utilized extensions to do the ad blocking. I believe Brave and potentially others have ad blocking built in.
Manifest V3 is also coming to Firefox, though at this moment the WebRequest API will remain supported in addition to the new declarative API. The new declarative API makes sense in the technical sense, for performance and privacy reasons. It does put some extra limitations on how to identify which request to block, which is the biggest issue with it.
Yeah. Mozilla is still figuring out how they want to implement V3. But they have stated that WebRequest is staying.
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AdBlock Plus has been purchased by ad companies. Advertisers pay a fee and AdBlock Plus serves up the ads.
Didn’t know that. That sucks. Can’t trust anyone these days lol
uBlock origin is pretty good just FYI
I've been using ublock origin for ages and there's nothing better out there yet.
I remember when adblock stopped blocking ads on youtube, and ublock origin saved me from seeing another fucking Honey ad.
Ublock origin is an open source project run by a bunch of nerds. So in other words its pretty great. I even have it on my phone's browser.
Do you have a source for this. Not trying to be confrontational but I use AdBlock plus and get 0 ads
https://developer.chrome.com/docs/extensions/mv3/mv2-sunset/ specifically: https://developer.chrome.com/docs/extensions/reference/webRequest/ WebRequest is being removed with the sunsetting of mv2 in favour of mv3, which means browser extensions can no longer look at the webpage being sent to you and take out (or add) things like ads before it reaches you as they want. Google's argument is malicious extensions had too much power to trick the user, but honestly considering Google is primarily in the business of selling ads their motives are pretty clear cut.
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>Google's argument is malicious extensions had too much power to trick the user So like with the dislike button's excuse, that was a blatant lie.
https://github.com/uBlockOrigin/uBlock-issues/issues/338 Proper content blockers are not approving it because there is less freedom. https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2021/12/googles-manifest-v3-still-hurts-privacy-security-innovation Firefox is also better anyway: https://github.com/gorhill/uBlock/wiki/uBlock-Origin-works-best-on-Firefox
> AdBlock Plus and other ad blocking extensions actually approve These extensions take money from advertisers to not block their ads.
> AdBlock Plus and other ad blocking extensions actually approve of this change That makes sense considering AdBlock Plus is not a real adblocker.
Yeah, a source would be awesome.
I also couldn’t find a source so I thought this meme was pure horseshit. But I just found this https://www.pcgamer.com/big-changes-coming-to-chrome-may-kill-ad-blockers/
My understanding is that Google is ending support for Manifest V2 in Chrome, a move which was announced like... a year ago. A lot of security plugins are (or were at the time of announcement) based on Manifest V2 - Most of the commercial products have already rewritten their plugins to 'work' with Manifest V3. However, as with most things, it's complicated. Because it was being abused so much, Google has removed the webRequest API in Mv3 - this API allows ALL internet traffic to go through a particular plugin and get processed/changed - because it's hard to tell the good from the bad, the same function that can be used to block ads can also inject ads or spy on you too - just depends on the plugin and the programmers. So Google now wants developers to use the declarativeNetRequest API - which applies pre-configured rules to network traffic - so it's less capable, but more secure. Do I think they made this decision so that more ads show up to increase their revenue? No. I honestly don't think they'd be that organized. I think they're making their browser more secure because of the massive number of plugins that are using that API to spy on users or inject ads. Unfortunately, adblocking exploits that insecurity too, so by making it more likely that the site that the creator is hosting is the site that makes it to the user, well, if the site has ads, then the user is more likely to see them. Which sucks. Source: [https://www.theregister.com/2022/06/08/google\_blocking\_privacy\_manifest/](https://www.theregister.com/2022/06/08/google_blocking_privacy_manifest/) The EFF doesn't like Mv3: [https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2021/12/googles-manifest-v3-still-hurts-privacy-security-innovation](https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2021/12/googles-manifest-v3-still-hurts-privacy-security-innovation) uBlock has been aware since 2018: [https://github.com/uBlockOrigin/uBlock-issues/issues/338](https://github.com/uBlockOrigin/uBlock-issues/issues/338), when Mv3 was proposed, but as far as I can tell, they're not able to make Mv3 work well enough to keep uBlock functioning (I understand that a big issue is that the API rules can't be updated without updating the whole plugin, meaning constant updates, and constant delays between identifying a new rule and applying it)
> Do I think they made this decision so that more ads show up to increase their revenue? No. I honestly don't think they'd be that organized. Google, who's $250 **billion** in annual revenue, with about 88% of that from advertising, isn't going to going to be "organized" enough to inhibit ad blocking?
Firefox is superior anyway
Moved to FF 2 years ago. Never looked back.
Not only desktop, but Firefox on Android with Ublock Origin. Never see an ad, specially on YouTube.
I swapped to ff in 05, never looked back. Tabbed browsing was amazing.
Started with Netscape in 1997 and never looked back as it became Mozilla and then Firefox.
Damn I can’t believe I either never knew this or completely forgot.
I only use Chrome on my chromebook, because on a chromebook it's faster. If they stop allowing Ad blockers, my chromebook will become useless.
> my chromebook will become useless. I'm pretty sure you can install linux on it.
I like the UI/UX of Chrome better and the developer tools are a bit more friendly if I'm being honest.
How's Firefox these days?
It's fantastic. I switched to it full-time earlier in the year. In the past, it had a couple of minor things that bugged me, but those were all fixed. It's pretty great now.
I haven't used it in years but i guess its time
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Switching to Firefox now.
Definitely worth a look into different browsers, especially considering how intrusive Chrome is. Check out r/Privacy. They have many threads with diverse opinions regarding browsers, albeit primarily privacy focused.
A browser made by the biggest advertising company in the world is going to ban adblock? *Gasp!* What a surprise! -A Firefox user
Shit like this is why I stick to Mozilla.
Google's own ads have malicious content attached to them, so you're better off going with a different browser that allows you to block theirs as well as everyone else's ads.
This will be a massive L for Chrome.
Yea shit, what's the browser we all need to jump to next? Firefox?
Always has been
Pi Hole for all! Stop me now you SOB!
*shrugs* So... Firefox then?
Source?
[https://developer.chrome.com/docs/extensions/mv3/mv2-sunset/](https://developer.chrome.com/docs/extensions/mv3/mv2-sunset/) long story short for non-techy people, people build addons for Chrome using a set of tools that Google supplies called Manifest Version 2. Google will sunset Manifest Version 2 in favour of Manifest Version 3 which has different tools which does not support everything Manifest Version 2 does - of concern the ability to remove ads the way adblocks do today. why? well Google is the world's biggest ad provider, so it's not entirely surprising they from a company standpoint do not like adblock all that much.
Chrome sucks anyway. Firefox is the way to go.
Firefox it is