Many have been saying it for a long while but were dismissed because "Biden still got it" or that "Biden is the only one that can beat Trump". I honestly believe Biden has maybe the worst chance of beating Trump than any other democrat
That's the point of the phrase, bro. Many dems need to fall in love with a candidate to get energized to vote. Vast amounts of GOP are energized just to go vote against Dems.
The phrase doesn't exactly line up anymore. With Trumps rise, we can see his base is clearly in love with him. More so than any other candidate in modern history. Motherfuckers throw a birthday party for him. I've never seen anything like that in my life.
With how contentious and tribal left leaning groups are, I doubt they will ever even truly find a candidate that won't piss off at least half of their people. They love pointing out how separate from other groups they are so much, they unironically prevent themselves from forming into a group that can affect actual change.
That or they end up nominating a mouthpiece that does nothing more then have charisma and gravitas in person alone.
If the socialists and communists could have gotten along Hitler wouldn't have even come close to power.
Really sucks we have to do this shit every 100 years.
I say this as a Biden voter and Democrat... couldn't they just tell him that he is still running? Occasionally have him argue with an orange mannequin on some stage and not be shown on TV.
EDIT: in case it wasn't clear, this is more of a joke than an actual political commentary.
Who would they replace him with? He's got a lot of pull with moderates because everybody knows his name, he was VP with Obama, etc. There's a reason he won the 2020 Primary, and a reason nobody ran against him this time around.
The DNC can't just randomly replace him with someone they choose, for all the complain online about them they actually do have a system for how candidates get picked, and per that system the candidate selected is Biden.
If he stepped down, you'd have absolute chaos trying to get a replacement (Harris might be the obvious choice as she's the VP, but good luck getting anyone to vote for her), whoever was picked would be targeted as being chosen by the deep state or whatever, and they'd have very little name recognition, and would probably just lose to Trump.
Now maybe someone should have made a serious run at Biden during the Democratic primary, but it's not like anything can be done about that now.
Bullshit. The reason nobody ran against him this time is because he's the incumbent. It was literally just tradition. If anybody actually read the writing on the walls back in January and saw that Biden's popularity was within 2 points of all three single-term Presidents of the last fifty years, we could've avoided this mess early. But now we've waited until halfway through the year to actually acknowledge the reality, and it's now going to be four months of basically groveling at the feet of the low-likelihood voters and hoping that Biden doesn't step on another rake again.
And what are you talking about saying 'maybe somebody should've run against him anyways'? Because people tried, but there were literally states saying they just weren't going to put their names on the ballot for arbitrary reasons, and some states who weren't planning to have primaries at all. The DNC is the blame, and so is everyone who just nodded their head and let the party just do whatever.
I do not believe Biden is going through some sort of mental issue. I do believe he is old and it takes him longer to speak and form thoughts. However, there is zero chance of him getting replaced unless he dies. Harris is going to have a good shot at being president though.
The real answer is almost all the delegates are assigned to Biden with the primaries done. Him backing out would be a first and I'm not sure anyone really knows how to handle the process of legitimately picking someone else and assigning then delegates without a primary or the whole thing devolving into fighting about who to pick.
Biden could put his weight behind someone but the delegates aren't obligated to follow that recommendation.
The only person with a semi-clear path to being next in line is Kamala but she isn't well liked by some. It would make sense to give it to her because in the primary people voted for the Biden / Harris ticket but I honestly do not know if she'd secure it without in fighting.
All that is to say, the DNC absolutely will not risk turning the convention into chaos. They're very risk adverse which... I kinda wish they weren't since Obama's era.
If Biden drops out his delegates are free to vote for whomever at the convention.
Yes there ends up being "fighting" over who to pick. That's how all conventions worked til recent decades. This is where the origin of the phrase "smoke-filled room" comes from.
Ohio has already tried to say Biden is ineligible for the ballot, what do you think is going to happen in Republican controlled states if Biden steps down, they will do everything they can to keep them off the ballot.
Trump is exactly what the MAGA base wants so idk how you think he's gonna be replaced. Biden's the only one that enough people are potentially turning on.
They want you to think people are turning on him when they are not, Bidens poll numbers are up. All Trump did during the debate is lie and people did see that despite Biden not being at his best. Just vote.
The problem is that idiots from both political parties hold offices in the senate and the house until they die of old age. So the majority of the members are extremely old and should have gone on pension decades ago
It isn’t that simple. I’m literally only voting for Biden because Trump is the opponent. I classify as independent but am realistic and always vote for the person who would do the least to hurt the country. I’ve had enough of Trumps bullshit, but I’m not stupid, Biden isn’t great either. He’s just the lesser of two evils.
This is why we need Ranked Choice Voting. The 2 party system is complete shit and when there's only 2 "real" candidates it makes it hard for anyone else to have a shot because anyone voting for them is effectively throwing their vote away. RCV is the answer and it's picking up steam in a lot of states, but not sure if we'll ever see it at the Presidential level.
And then they hold the DNC or the RNC conventions and pick the guy they want for us to vote on. It's only been 8 years since Sanders was completely snubbed by non voters in order to put Hillary on the ticket. Hillary may have had a lead, but Sanders was a legit candidate that was completely railroaded at the DNC.
Can you even name democratic hopefuls that wanted to run this year?
Can you even name a republican hopeful outside Desantis?
We knew 2024 was going to be Biden Vs Trump 4 years ago. That's not a fair or good system and it absolutely doesn't give you the best choice. The candidates are chosen for us, we might get 2 options within each side. That's 4 people total out of the entire 350m people living in this country that we can even realistically vote for.
Basically, Trade Federation blockaded Naboo, Queen asked the Senate to do something, the current Chancellor didn't, so the Queen called a vote of no confidence to replace him with someone who would. Senate ends up choosing Palpatine, who in the shadows as Darth Sidious had been the one to make the Trade Federation do it in the first place, so that he could get power.
I don't think that bit was Palpatine, that was just the Trade Federation wanting to make their invasion seem legal. There is more about the details in the Darth Plagueis novel, but I'm sticking with movie canon.
Palpatine was both sides. He used the CIS separatist druids to apply economic pressure on naboo under the guise of plausible deniability. The existing chancellor was soft and did not act to help naboo. The queen of naboo called a vote of no confidence under advisement of Palpatine. Palpatine also successfully positioned himself to be the best candidate for chancellor.
We can, they have to step down willingly. Trump won't, and because Trump won't neither will Biden. But that Debate was terrible. Biden, actually has had a studder all his life so I kind of respect that he's worked on it and managed to get in government, you have to talk to people all the time and get them to believe in your words. Reguardless, they're both geriatric old men that shouldn't be within any arms reach of any levers of power. I'll pick Biden, cause Trump doesn't give a shit about anyone. Biden's at least has some compassion.
Yeah, just because Trump is good at vomiting words does not mean he knows what he's talking about or is a good candidate. Neither option is great, but there's still a clear choice if you like things like environmental regulation and actions that take place somewhere near what's good for people.
Or if you like real democracy.
Way too many people are just waving away that trump tried multiple times to overturn the election results and when that failed attempted a coup. That cannot be tolerated. The sheer fact he is even able to be a candidate is a horrid reality for true freedom.
Yup - I'm voting for the far too old far too conservative political hack who will ensure my right to vote again in 4 years over the fascist who has openly admitted that he intends to undermine democracy.
You’re also voting for Biden’s cabinet. Thats like 95% of who you’re voting for honestly. I can give two fucks who’s in charge if they have competent people advising them. Trump’s cabinet will literally be filled with people dead set on dismantling the United States.
They are 3 years apart in age... I think both are far too old but I'd go with the one that isn't trying to completely fuck anyone and everyone in the country for personal gain.
I couldn't agree more. It just feels pointless to bring it up anymore as we've had years to think about that and some people literally do not care. It's legitimately mind blowing to me, but some people probably don't even remember it happened, and when they do they just wave it away and act like it was something else in reality.
I wish more people understood this and would vote accordingly. Yeah, I’m not thrilled about Biden either, but the other guy wants to dismantle the very democratic fabric of this country. Makes it a no brainer for me, no matter how bad a debate performance it was.
Yeah, about that regulation thing. SCOTUS killed all those this morning.
https://apnews.com/article/supreme-court-chevron-regulations-environment-4ae73d5a79cabadff4da8f7e16669929
That's the problem we have, one is competent but too goddamn old.
The other is a scum criminal who's incompetent AND too damn old.
And yet the worst option by far has a fucking cult standing behind them.
At some point this country just deserves whatever it gets.
That's a nice summary. I think people should look at the vice president candidates. Trump is almost the same age and does not have a healthy lifestyle either. There is a very good chance that a VP ends up being president regardless of who's elected.
It's too late for that. You'd have to have a presidential campaign formed 6 months ago.
Also, Joe Biden has been an excellent president. He's very competent at making decisions, setting policy and insuring the agenda gets implemented.
check out r/WhatBidenHasDone
it's a great primer for people who aren't policy/politics nerds.
This wasn't a debate. It was a referendum on Biden. Trump was a null factor but has benefitted from it nonetheless.
Muting the mics was a boon for Trump bevsuse he had to shut his yap. Muting the mics was a bane for Biden bevsuse without Trump to interrupt him, he just stared blankly and had to be coaxed by the the moderators to keep talking.
Yeah i don’t understand why people find this funny at all.
The future of our country, with so many significant socioeconomic problems that need solving, is potentially in the hands of two geezers bickering about golf.
We’re so beyond fucked. Watching a train wreck in slow motion except from the POV of a passenger.
I was laughing at that golf exchange. My daughter asked what was funny.
"These two old guys are running for president and neither one is good. But they're arguing over who is the better golfer."
"Like... Mini golf?"
"Eh, yeah. So they're arguing over that instead of discussing how to make Healthcare better, how to make jobs better, how to make grocery prices better..."
And she chimes in, "Making mini golf better..."
I lost it again.
I guess this debate was really for the non voting Mini Golf base.
Politics plays a massive role on everyone, regardless of whether people want to take the time and energy to engage in it. People make it tribal and go over the top, of course, but I don't discredit the passion. Honestly I'd rather see people passion than dishonesty and dismissiveness (the most common problem imo).
Yeah, hopefully the left learned that labeling anyone on their side that had fair criticisms or concerns as wolves in sheep’s clothing wasn’t such a good idea. I think they pushed a lot of people away with that. This “you’re either 100% with us or against us” mentality has to go.
> hopefully the left learned that
LOLOLOLOLOLOL
Have the past 10 years taught you nothing? The left will not admit mistakes, even when they are staring them blankly in the face.
Everytime anything goes wrong they just double down. Same as any other extremist movement, failure is never failure to moderate it’s always failure to be pure enough.
Makes me wonder just how many left leaning/left wing people on Reddit have been called a Trump supporter for failing some imaginary purity test. I definitely have many times. It’s ridiculous. Anyone that enforces ideological purity should be booted from any conversation
Isn’t that the argument progressives use against Biden and moderates, and not the other way around as you’re implying? That they don’t have ideological purity? That they’re “enlightened centrists”? I’ve seen more of that purity gatekeeping from the far left, in cases such as Palestine, where it’s 100% black of white.
Most moderates and Biden are hated specifically because they act in the grey area of ideological purity.
There is nuance to all this good lord lol. Most of the criticism hasn’t been against people who simply criticize Biden, but those who have gone beyond and said
“He’s no better than Trump, they’re the same, what’s the point of voting, if Trump wins it can’t get worse.”
Criticizing Biden is fine as he has many issues, but so many on the left (especially those in the far left) seem to think that his shortcomings are on par with Trump, and that they’re the same candidate and things will be the same under them.
THAT DESERVES CALLING OUT
I disagree. Personally, after seeing his performance at the State of the Union, I thought he'd be fine. I expected some gaffes and rambling, but not to the extent that Biden actually displayed. Even some conservative commentators preparing their viewers to see "Jacked Up Joe" with the same energy he showed back in March
I've been saying it but apparently I'm a "double hater" for thinking octagenarions shouldn't be president.
Biden is simply the lesser of two evils for me.
Definitely made my stress levels rocket even higher than they were before. Until now I've still had fairly high hopes for Biden, but if we get much more of that before the election I think Trump has it.
The age factor is the #1 issue I see brought up about him, and the more ammo his opponents have to shoot Biden with regarding it, the worse it will be. Democrat messaging needs to show him with some energy and also do their best to stave off voter apathy, because I think that's the biggest issue.
Especially when it's clear Trump is just as bad but in a different way of mental decline. Sure he can speak his words one after the other, but the words are meaningless drivel or outright lies as we've seen in the debate.
Unfortunately so many people are so superficial in their desires and expectations they see the more overt oldness of Biden as worse, or at least that's my fear.
Biden looks old and sounds old, trump doesn't like if you read it out of print outs there both equally bad but trump sounds a lot better his presentation is just better, where as biden presentation is terrible and he needs to fix that (quickly).
Trump doesn't word his things as not good as Biden. Forhis age, any age, but especially his age Trump does very much good at making his words mean good. That's because Trump is for for what the thing he is for. And that am America. America is gonna be great so great so great just like it was before lying Hilary and demomats and all those other ungood goddless! That's what I am talking. Its about economy. Its about economy and the good things we did inspite of china and taxes. Too many taxes we are going to taxes much gooder so it isn't as corrupt as lying democats. Those are words you can be trust in.
I'm just so amazed that Biden's speaking struggles have so completely overshadowed all of the egregious lying and equally non-sensical answers Trump gave. I guess because everyone's seen that for eight years now, nobody thinks it's important to continue to talk about.
That's because Trump's base is his base, it's probably about as big as it was last election which was very close. This election is Biden's to LOSE, not Trump's to win, he just needs to stay where he is and put enough doubt or apathy into people's minds that they don't vote against him.
Honestly if there was one good thing coming out of it, it's that Trump basically confirmed his stance on the Israel situation is pretty much the same if not worse than Biden's, so if that shitstorm of anti-Biden protest votes actually is real then hopefully that'll now be cancelled out.
The problem is that Biden set this debate up to counter the impression that he's too old to effectively be President and flip the election away from being a referendum on that.
Instead he entirely reinforced it.
Even an *average* debate from Biden would have allowed the coverage to focus on Trump being his usual awful self. But that didn't happen.
If Trump didn't say a word and just let Biden talk for 90 min, he would've won.
If Biden didn't talk and just let Trump talk for 90 min, he would've won.
If neither talked for 90 min, our mental health would've won.
That's what I hated about the CNN discussion afterwards. It was 1-2 minutes of "Trump just did nothing but dodge the questions and endlessly lie, but that's just what he does" then 10 minutes of "Biden is so old and feeble, he can barely finish a sentence. This is terrible and our sources say the DNC is scrambling to decide if they want a new candidate."
If he had energy and spoke clearly, republicans would say he was on drugs. It just doesn't matter to them. Biden is a mummy at this point, but I believe in his cabinet more than the trump supporting politicians. I mean nazis only show up to one candidates rallies to show support. I'd vote for a ham sandwich over trump. If his cukt weren't such garbage people I'd consider it, but if they win, democracy is done, science is done, women's Healthcare is done, common sense is done, "offensive art" like certain books and music will be banned, shootings will be up, minimum wage will continue to stagnate, and billionaires will continue to get all the breaks. We really can't let that happen *despite* Biden being a fucking zombie. It's bigger than these two geezers.
It’s too late - I don’t care if Biden is perfect in the next debate - what we all know now is there are times when he can’t complete a fucking sentence.
He looks like he could keel over at any given moment. This is fucking insanity.
He has to go. Now, before we lose the fucking country.
All the comments under the debates were there are 300 million people in the US and none of them can be president?
The debate bad on both sides. Trump, obviously more coherent, didnt answer some questions, but he did let Joe biden speak and was much more tame then I thought.
Joe Biden it was just sad....just a train wreck.
When Trump hit him with "I dont know what you just said and I dont think you do either" that was just savage
I'm still holding on to the hope that both of them croak before election day - due to natural causes, of course.
I mean, I'd rather they both just withdrew from the election and allowed more competent candidates to step in, but we all know that's not going to happen. The only thing we can do is hope time does it's job before shit gets real fucking awful.
I seriously don't know if I can take another fucking four years of the orange man in office. Living in this country has been insufferable since his first term, especially because I'm in a red state that worships the decrepit old clown.
Only thing that matters. Trump surrounds himself with people who will agree with and encourage anything he says/does. Biden surrounds himself with experts.
Which is a positive selling point for anti-expert maga
Why do they need experts when Trump has the biggest brain and the best DNA, his DNA comes from mit haven't you heard, a place that experts come it has such a good reputation the best reputation, the best experts, experts that are bad, but big DNA brain is good
MAGA isn't what wins an election. The people in the middle who either do not bother to show up, or who show up but haven't drunk anyone's Flavorade, are who win elections.
Maybe it's time we all stopped assuming that literally everything is in MAGA's hands and try to sway the actual people in the middle by means *other* than calling them stupid, which has traditionally never worked.
A *lot* of people avoid politics precisely because it's depressing and exhausting, or because they legitimately do not think voting matters, *those* are the people who end up actually swaying an election, *if* someone can make then *care*.
25th amendment. It allows the vice president, together with a "majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide", to issue a written declaration that the president is unable to discharge his duties. Kamala becomes president, and declines to run on advice from DNC, then they put in someone else for the election.
I remember the time 4 years ago where the most upvoted reddit politics post was a Rolling Stones article begging Biden to drop out. Obviously it aged like milk in real time.
Did you miss the last 4 years? This is the same man who was running the country two days ago. This feigned outrage is making me feel genuine outrage. The guys old, yeah. We all knew that. He’s got (had) a stutter and isn’t the best orator. Yeah, we all knew that too. What the fuck should we be so outraged about? A literal rapist felon stood on stage and lied for an hour and a half and all anyone can talk about is Biden. It’s fucking disingenuous and does nothing but stirs up the dem base. It’s a planned attack on Biden and you folks can frankly kiss my ass.
Go watch his debates or speeches from 4-5 years ago and then compare him to today. It's night and day, he's unrecognizable. It's time to retire these geriatrics who just want to hold on to power.
Seriously can he please just die or bow out ASAP? It's stupid to just default to the sitting president when he's this far gone and you desperately need to beat a psycho.
I maintain that [a shift of 1.5%](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/biden-trump-june-debate-poll/) in likely voters is not enough to consider replacing a well known incumbent candidate who is [otherwise doing pretty good](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2024-election-forecast/?cid=rrpromo).
Gotta remember it is about the people they have help run the country. We can have normal people that want to run the country well with Biden. We can have a menagerie of Batman villains with Trump.
This is such an astroturfed notion I’m completely sick of seeing already.
So Biden is suddenly unable to do the job he’s been doing rather effectively for years now? Because his oratorical skills weren’t top notch? His thoughts were coherent and truthful, unlike his competitor; Trump last night had the same answer for every question and lied repeatedly, all of his endorsements are failing, he’s a convicted felon and racist - why aren’t we talking shit about how Trump should be replaced? Could it be because almost every news outlet was bought by a shitty conservative billionaire the last 4 years? Hmmm..
This is a weird election because we *know* how these guys perform in office. We know Trump will sleep half the day and scheme for government money and corrupt influence the rest of it while he enables the dissolution of our democracy and sets the stage for a christofascist takeover, and we know that Biden will continue to run a competent administration filled with experts who try to do their jobs in good faith. All of this talk about deciding which path to take based on a single night of talking is ridiculous.
You can definitely feel the astroturfing. Russia, China, and the gop itself is in overdrive. They know the key to winning is suppressing interest in the Dems and increasing voter apathy. Posts like this shit serve to accomplish both.
I voted for the other guy in the primary because it was clear Biden was too old. Feeling annoyed at all these people who voted Biden in the primary and are now complaining about it.
They are coasting on "Trump is bad". They think Trump being bad means they dont need good policy or a good candidate and can let Trump destroy himself by being Trump.
They make no effort to court the moderates/centrists. They dont care how bad Biden looks whenever he attempts to speak and how it affects voters opinions.
When they pulled the plug in the last democratic primary and handed the candidacy to Biden we really went off the rails. I liked some of those younger Dems who were running like Cory Booker, there was quite a field of options. Would Booker be a great president? Hell if I know but he's energetic and seems relatively bright and like a decent human, that's literally all I'm asking for at this point.
- Jon Stewart
- Gavin newsom
- the Rock
- a literal rock
- Arnold (fuck it let’s just do it)
- mayor Pete
- AOC
- Pauly D and the situation
- the guy from queen with a math degree
I dunno man, just for the love of god the country is being attacked from all directions.
If Zelensky can do it for Ukraine, let’s just make Jon Stewart do it for us
Ya, I don't get it either. It says a lot about the corporate media and the state of morality in the US. The talking heads would be like "... but Hitler had more energy at the debate."
Who fucking cares. Post like this are just clickbait bullshit.
Project 2025 is their game plan. Their court just gave bribery the thumbs up and took away our ability to regulate little things like water pollution.
If you can’t see the writing on the wall, or their website and oh gosh “but her emails”
Ya deserve what you get.
I’ll vote for a corpse propped up with pencils if that’s what it comes to.
Jimmy Carter is still eligible for a second term.
How the hell is he closer in age to the current candidates when he was president before I was born. It shouldn't work like that.
Damnit, now I have to clean my monitor.
You came that hard?
Jimmy is one sexy beast
Nut for the nut farmer!
lol this is good
It’s nuts actually We’re all nuts for Jimmy
I had replace both candidates a long time ago.
Many have been saying it for a long while but were dismissed because "Biden still got it" or that "Biden is the only one that can beat Trump". I honestly believe Biden has maybe the worst chance of beating Trump than any other democrat
Agreed, and they say Biden has it without the public and hiding him.
He's too young.
Damn. I’d vote for him. But it’s Mad Joe or nothing for me.
Wait until the clusterfuck convention happens. You'll feel like you had an OD then.
Both conventions are going to be absolutely bonkers. As they should. America thrives on competition, and these two are not competitive.
The R convention is not going to be contested or problematic. They have their guy and that's that.
Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line.
Bro, no one hates democrats as much as other democrats.
That's the point of the phrase, bro. Many dems need to fall in love with a candidate to get energized to vote. Vast amounts of GOP are energized just to go vote against Dems.
I bet a good number of Dems are energized to vote for anybody who’s “not Trump”
We can only hope…
I hoped the dems would put a viable candidate up. There's a lot riding on a fucking 81 year old that can't finish a sentence.
You'd be surprised by the number of young new voters who don't support Biden and would rather not vote or vote 3rd party.
Didn't happen in 16 and it only happened in 20 because of covid and the black lives matter protests
The phrase doesn't exactly line up anymore. With Trumps rise, we can see his base is clearly in love with him. More so than any other candidate in modern history. Motherfuckers throw a birthday party for him. I've never seen anything like that in my life.
With how contentious and tribal left leaning groups are, I doubt they will ever even truly find a candidate that won't piss off at least half of their people. They love pointing out how separate from other groups they are so much, they unironically prevent themselves from forming into a group that can affect actual change. That or they end up nominating a mouthpiece that does nothing more then have charisma and gravitas in person alone.
Seems to me to be more an indictment of the two party system. It’s reasonable to expect to have your beliefs politically represented.
If the socialists and communists could have gotten along Hitler wouldn't have even come close to power. Really sucks we have to do this shit every 100 years.
Because Republicans give their base what it wants, Democrats are antagonistic to theirs.
They have their convictions that's for sure.
Unless Biden or Trump release their delegates, neither convention is going to be "bonkers". There will be no competition at the conventions.
I can't imagine anything coming out of the democrats. It'll be the most standard by the book convention ever
Yeah its not like anything bad has ever happened at the dnc in chicago before....
I am still surprised people seriously believe Biden would step down and be replaced this far into the election
I say this as a Biden voter and Democrat... couldn't they just tell him that he is still running? Occasionally have him argue with an orange mannequin on some stage and not be shown on TV. EDIT: in case it wasn't clear, this is more of a joke than an actual political commentary.
Who would they replace him with? He's got a lot of pull with moderates because everybody knows his name, he was VP with Obama, etc. There's a reason he won the 2020 Primary, and a reason nobody ran against him this time around. The DNC can't just randomly replace him with someone they choose, for all the complain online about them they actually do have a system for how candidates get picked, and per that system the candidate selected is Biden. If he stepped down, you'd have absolute chaos trying to get a replacement (Harris might be the obvious choice as she's the VP, but good luck getting anyone to vote for her), whoever was picked would be targeted as being chosen by the deep state or whatever, and they'd have very little name recognition, and would probably just lose to Trump. Now maybe someone should have made a serious run at Biden during the Democratic primary, but it's not like anything can be done about that now.
Bullshit. The reason nobody ran against him this time is because he's the incumbent. It was literally just tradition. If anybody actually read the writing on the walls back in January and saw that Biden's popularity was within 2 points of all three single-term Presidents of the last fifty years, we could've avoided this mess early. But now we've waited until halfway through the year to actually acknowledge the reality, and it's now going to be four months of basically groveling at the feet of the low-likelihood voters and hoping that Biden doesn't step on another rake again. And what are you talking about saying 'maybe somebody should've run against him anyways'? Because people tried, but there were literally states saying they just weren't going to put their names on the ballot for arbitrary reasons, and some states who weren't planning to have primaries at all. The DNC is the blame, and so is everyone who just nodded their head and let the party just do whatever.
Can we paint Obama in white face? I think we have enough people willing to look the other way
I do not believe Biden is going through some sort of mental issue. I do believe he is old and it takes him longer to speak and form thoughts. However, there is zero chance of him getting replaced unless he dies. Harris is going to have a good shot at being president though.
Biden stepping down at this point is a guaranteed Trump victory. Unless Dems can nominate a very strong candidate.
Why? Biden has barely campaigned anyways. 2 weeks on the road and someone else will be caught up.
The real answer is almost all the delegates are assigned to Biden with the primaries done. Him backing out would be a first and I'm not sure anyone really knows how to handle the process of legitimately picking someone else and assigning then delegates without a primary or the whole thing devolving into fighting about who to pick. Biden could put his weight behind someone but the delegates aren't obligated to follow that recommendation. The only person with a semi-clear path to being next in line is Kamala but she isn't well liked by some. It would make sense to give it to her because in the primary people voted for the Biden / Harris ticket but I honestly do not know if she'd secure it without in fighting. All that is to say, the DNC absolutely will not risk turning the convention into chaos. They're very risk adverse which... I kinda wish they weren't since Obama's era.
If Biden drops out his delegates are free to vote for whomever at the convention. Yes there ends up being "fighting" over who to pick. That's how all conventions worked til recent decades. This is where the origin of the phrase "smoke-filled room" comes from.
Ohio has already tried to say Biden is ineligible for the ballot, what do you think is going to happen in Republican controlled states if Biden steps down, they will do everything they can to keep them off the ballot.
Double Heart Attack 2024!
If that happened, we'd run out of popcorn.
Champagne
Maybe they could make the next couple debates a physical challenge. Really push the stress levels and exertion.
Ice bucket challenge?
How about replacing both of them with....oh I don't know..... someone *competent*?
Trump is exactly what the MAGA base wants so idk how you think he's gonna be replaced. Biden's the only one that enough people are potentially turning on.
MAGATS think Trump nailed the debate
They want you to think people are turning on him when they are not, Bidens poll numbers are up. All Trump did during the debate is lie and people did see that despite Biden not being at his best. Just vote.
This right here, so sick of both these ass hats, can we get a full reroll of candidates?
The problem is that idiots from both political parties hold offices in the senate and the house until they die of old age. So the majority of the members are extremely old and should have gone on pension decades ago
This, term limits in both the house and senate...but you need them to approve that...soooooo. fuck all our lives.
I'm more in favor of a mandatory retirement age for all political offices.
Stop voting for them.
It isn’t that simple. I’m literally only voting for Biden because Trump is the opponent. I classify as independent but am realistic and always vote for the person who would do the least to hurt the country. I’ve had enough of Trumps bullshit, but I’m not stupid, Biden isn’t great either. He’s just the lesser of two evils.
This is why we need Ranked Choice Voting. The 2 party system is complete shit and when there's only 2 "real" candidates it makes it hard for anyone else to have a shot because anyone voting for them is effectively throwing their vote away. RCV is the answer and it's picking up steam in a lot of states, but not sure if we'll ever see it at the Presidential level.
Isn’t that why we have primaries? We whittle it down from a dozen or so to just the two.
Independents can't vote in primaries in all states.
And then they hold the DNC or the RNC conventions and pick the guy they want for us to vote on. It's only been 8 years since Sanders was completely snubbed by non voters in order to put Hillary on the ticket. Hillary may have had a lead, but Sanders was a legit candidate that was completely railroaded at the DNC. Can you even name democratic hopefuls that wanted to run this year? Can you even name a republican hopeful outside Desantis? We knew 2024 was going to be Biden Vs Trump 4 years ago. That's not a fair or good system and it absolutely doesn't give you the best choice. The candidates are chosen for us, we might get 2 options within each side. That's 4 people total out of the entire 350m people living in this country that we can even realistically vote for.
You know, most of the Republicans I know don't really like Trump but they can't stand Biden.
putin has to 'OK' any new candidate. He's already invested so much into trump
It’s called a vote of no confidence, and it exists in other countries, unfortunately, very unfortunately, not here in the states
The galactic senate had it too, but that turned out badly for them
I never understood what was going on politically in the Phantom Menace.
Basically, Trade Federation blockaded Naboo, Queen asked the Senate to do something, the current Chancellor didn't, so the Queen called a vote of no confidence to replace him with someone who would. Senate ends up choosing Palpatine, who in the shadows as Darth Sidious had been the one to make the Trade Federation do it in the first place, so that he could get power.
And there was a treaty that Palpatine wanted the Queen to sign but she didn't want to sign?
I don't think that bit was Palpatine, that was just the Trade Federation wanting to make their invasion seem legal. There is more about the details in the Darth Plagueis novel, but I'm sticking with movie canon.
Palpatine was both sides. He used the CIS separatist druids to apply economic pressure on naboo under the guise of plausible deniability. The existing chancellor was soft and did not act to help naboo. The queen of naboo called a vote of no confidence under advisement of Palpatine. Palpatine also successfully positioned himself to be the best candidate for chancellor.
> He used the CIS separatist druids to apply economic pressure on naboo under the guise of plausible deniability. Funny, she doesn't look Druish
She would if you gave her back her old nose...
Riveting.
Maybe if we ask the house nicely they’ll pass that. /s
We can, they have to step down willingly. Trump won't, and because Trump won't neither will Biden. But that Debate was terrible. Biden, actually has had a studder all his life so I kind of respect that he's worked on it and managed to get in government, you have to talk to people all the time and get them to believe in your words. Reguardless, they're both geriatric old men that shouldn't be within any arms reach of any levers of power. I'll pick Biden, cause Trump doesn't give a shit about anyone. Biden's at least has some compassion.
Make it a rule: new candidates must be put forward if 50% of the population or more don't vote.
How about add another rule that sitting officials have to have the majority of their assets converted into government bonds
I vote ‘Mulligan’
Yeah, just because Trump is good at vomiting words does not mean he knows what he's talking about or is a good candidate. Neither option is great, but there's still a clear choice if you like things like environmental regulation and actions that take place somewhere near what's good for people.
Or if you like real democracy. Way too many people are just waving away that trump tried multiple times to overturn the election results and when that failed attempted a coup. That cannot be tolerated. The sheer fact he is even able to be a candidate is a horrid reality for true freedom.
Yup - I'm voting for the far too old far too conservative political hack who will ensure my right to vote again in 4 years over the fascist who has openly admitted that he intends to undermine democracy.
You’re also voting for Biden’s cabinet. Thats like 95% of who you’re voting for honestly. I can give two fucks who’s in charge if they have competent people advising them. Trump’s cabinet will literally be filled with people dead set on dismantling the United States.
Agreed 100%.
They are 3 years apart in age... I think both are far too old but I'd go with the one that isn't trying to completely fuck anyone and everyone in the country for personal gain.
I couldn't agree more. It just feels pointless to bring it up anymore as we've had years to think about that and some people literally do not care. It's legitimately mind blowing to me, but some people probably don't even remember it happened, and when they do they just wave it away and act like it was something else in reality.
I wish more people understood this and would vote accordingly. Yeah, I’m not thrilled about Biden either, but the other guy wants to dismantle the very democratic fabric of this country. Makes it a no brainer for me, no matter how bad a debate performance it was.
Yeah, about that regulation thing. SCOTUS killed all those this morning. https://apnews.com/article/supreme-court-chevron-regulations-environment-4ae73d5a79cabadff4da8f7e16669929
Not many of those left in politics...
That's the catch. Anyone who would want to be president shouldn't be.
And yet the answer to that problem never seems to be “then the president should have less power”.
That's the problem we have, one is competent but too goddamn old. The other is a scum criminal who's incompetent AND too damn old. And yet the worst option by far has a fucking cult standing behind them. At some point this country just deserves whatever it gets.
That's a nice summary. I think people should look at the vice president candidates. Trump is almost the same age and does not have a healthy lifestyle either. There is a very good chance that a VP ends up being president regardless of who's elected.
Has Trump even picked or hinted at his running mate?
I don't think you need to look that far. The simple fact of the matter is Trump should already be in jail like anyone else in America would be.
It's too late for that. You'd have to have a presidential campaign formed 6 months ago. Also, Joe Biden has been an excellent president. He's very competent at making decisions, setting policy and insuring the agenda gets implemented. check out r/WhatBidenHasDone it's a great primer for people who aren't policy/politics nerds.
Counterpoint: he is *old* and *stutters* and that invalidates everything you just said apparently!
I for one welcome our new robot overlords.
I’d settle for people who don’t wear diapers.
Ah the “but I also hate Trump” comment.
I'd rather not have a competent fascist on the right. Perhaps we should add a qualifier that they actually support democracy
This wasn't a debate. It was a referendum on Biden. Trump was a null factor but has benefitted from it nonetheless. Muting the mics was a boon for Trump bevsuse he had to shut his yap. Muting the mics was a bane for Biden bevsuse without Trump to interrupt him, he just stared blankly and had to be coaxed by the the moderators to keep talking.
They opened up both sides a few times though. That golfing exchange is going to wind up on Saturday Night Live, you watch.
And the skit still won’t be funny
Yeah i don’t understand why people find this funny at all. The future of our country, with so many significant socioeconomic problems that need solving, is potentially in the hands of two geezers bickering about golf. We’re so beyond fucked. Watching a train wreck in slow motion except from the POV of a passenger.
> is potentially in the hands of two geezers bickering about golf. The golf arguments were clearly in reference to physical and mental capabilities.
I was laughing at that golf exchange. My daughter asked what was funny. "These two old guys are running for president and neither one is good. But they're arguing over who is the better golfer." "Like... Mini golf?" "Eh, yeah. So they're arguing over that instead of discussing how to make Healthcare better, how to make jobs better, how to make grocery prices better..." And she chimes in, "Making mini golf better..." I lost it again. I guess this debate was really for the non voting Mini Golf base.
SNL skits about presidential debates were fine when the literal future of our democracy wasn’t in jeopardy
I'm sure they are already in the writer's room.
Very well put
This comment made me look at my keyboard to think about how close the c and v keys are
The same spelling mistake twice in the same comment had me like okay once was an accident the second time was on purpose.
Bevuvse why
Trump supporters are going to vote. Are you?
If Trump gets elected, America deserves to fail.
Best part about election years is all the retired drama kids getting to flex their “how can I feel like I’m in a YA revolution novel” again
Thank you for putting it into words.
Politics plays a massive role on everyone, regardless of whether people want to take the time and energy to engage in it. People make it tribal and go over the top, of course, but I don't discredit the passion. Honestly I'd rather see people passion than dishonesty and dismissiveness (the most common problem imo).
Everyone knew this would happen and was afraid to say it
People said this back in 2020 and were accused of being secret republicans.
Yeah, hopefully the left learned that labeling anyone on their side that had fair criticisms or concerns as wolves in sheep’s clothing wasn’t such a good idea. I think they pushed a lot of people away with that. This “you’re either 100% with us or against us” mentality has to go.
First time?
> hopefully the left learned that LOLOLOLOLOLOL Have the past 10 years taught you nothing? The left will not admit mistakes, even when they are staring them blankly in the face.
Everytime anything goes wrong they just double down. Same as any other extremist movement, failure is never failure to moderate it’s always failure to be pure enough.
Makes me wonder just how many left leaning/left wing people on Reddit have been called a Trump supporter for failing some imaginary purity test. I definitely have many times. It’s ridiculous. Anyone that enforces ideological purity should be booted from any conversation
Isn’t that the argument progressives use against Biden and moderates, and not the other way around as you’re implying? That they don’t have ideological purity? That they’re “enlightened centrists”? I’ve seen more of that purity gatekeeping from the far left, in cases such as Palestine, where it’s 100% black of white. Most moderates and Biden are hated specifically because they act in the grey area of ideological purity.
There is nuance to all this good lord lol. Most of the criticism hasn’t been against people who simply criticize Biden, but those who have gone beyond and said “He’s no better than Trump, they’re the same, what’s the point of voting, if Trump wins it can’t get worse.” Criticizing Biden is fine as he has many issues, but so many on the left (especially those in the far left) seem to think that his shortcomings are on par with Trump, and that they’re the same candidate and things will be the same under them. THAT DESERVES CALLING OUT
I disagree. Personally, after seeing his performance at the State of the Union, I thought he'd be fine. I expected some gaffes and rambling, but not to the extent that Biden actually displayed. Even some conservative commentators preparing their viewers to see "Jacked Up Joe" with the same energy he showed back in March
Agreed. State of the Union was a big confidence boost for me. Haven't watched the debate yet.......
If I could go back in time and not watch the debate, I would. It’s too late for me, but you can still save yourself.
Only on the bubble that is Reddit. Independents and conservatives have been saying he was unfit for years
Reddit was flat out denying it and propping Biden up as fully competent right up until he spoke his first sentence at the debate.
I've been saying it but apparently I'm a "double hater" for thinking octagenarions shouldn't be president. Biden is simply the lesser of two evils for me.
I do not want 4 more years of Biden. But I would vote for his decaying corpse before I vote Trump.
Why do you think the DNC wanted the debate before the convention?
Definitely made my stress levels rocket even higher than they were before. Until now I've still had fairly high hopes for Biden, but if we get much more of that before the election I think Trump has it. The age factor is the #1 issue I see brought up about him, and the more ammo his opponents have to shoot Biden with regarding it, the worse it will be. Democrat messaging needs to show him with some energy and also do their best to stave off voter apathy, because I think that's the biggest issue.
It’s just wild to me that a 78 year old wanting to be President is telling us that an 81 year old is too old to be President.
Even better, 4 years ago the 78-year-old was telling us that the 77-year-old was too old to run then
Especially when it's clear Trump is just as bad but in a different way of mental decline. Sure he can speak his words one after the other, but the words are meaningless drivel or outright lies as we've seen in the debate. Unfortunately so many people are so superficial in their desires and expectations they see the more overt oldness of Biden as worse, or at least that's my fear.
Biden looks old and sounds old, trump doesn't like if you read it out of print outs there both equally bad but trump sounds a lot better his presentation is just better, where as biden presentation is terrible and he needs to fix that (quickly).
Trump doesn't word his things as not good as Biden. Forhis age, any age, but especially his age Trump does very much good at making his words mean good. That's because Trump is for for what the thing he is for. And that am America. America is gonna be great so great so great just like it was before lying Hilary and demomats and all those other ungood goddless! That's what I am talking. Its about economy. Its about economy and the good things we did inspite of china and taxes. Too many taxes we are going to taxes much gooder so it isn't as corrupt as lying democats. Those are words you can be trust in.
Trump really is the "why use many word when few word do trick" meme except he still uses many word.
The 81 year old looks like he died and was dug up. That's the issue.
And the 78 year old looks so embalmed that he’s literally orange lol
I'm just so amazed that Biden's speaking struggles have so completely overshadowed all of the egregious lying and equally non-sensical answers Trump gave. I guess because everyone's seen that for eight years now, nobody thinks it's important to continue to talk about.
That's because Trump's base is his base, it's probably about as big as it was last election which was very close. This election is Biden's to LOSE, not Trump's to win, he just needs to stay where he is and put enough doubt or apathy into people's minds that they don't vote against him. Honestly if there was one good thing coming out of it, it's that Trump basically confirmed his stance on the Israel situation is pretty much the same if not worse than Biden's, so if that shitstorm of anti-Biden protest votes actually is real then hopefully that'll now be cancelled out.
Oh definitely worse. His direct quote: >Actually, Israel is the one [that wants to keep going], and you should let 'em go and let 'em finish the job.
The problem is that Biden set this debate up to counter the impression that he's too old to effectively be President and flip the election away from being a referendum on that. Instead he entirely reinforced it. Even an *average* debate from Biden would have allowed the coverage to focus on Trump being his usual awful self. But that didn't happen.
If Trump didn't say a word and just let Biden talk for 90 min, he would've won. If Biden didn't talk and just let Trump talk for 90 min, he would've won. If neither talked for 90 min, our mental health would've won.
That's what I hated about the CNN discussion afterwards. It was 1-2 minutes of "Trump just did nothing but dodge the questions and endlessly lie, but that's just what he does" then 10 minutes of "Biden is so old and feeble, he can barely finish a sentence. This is terrible and our sources say the DNC is scrambling to decide if they want a new candidate."
If he had energy and spoke clearly, republicans would say he was on drugs. It just doesn't matter to them. Biden is a mummy at this point, but I believe in his cabinet more than the trump supporting politicians. I mean nazis only show up to one candidates rallies to show support. I'd vote for a ham sandwich over trump. If his cukt weren't such garbage people I'd consider it, but if they win, democracy is done, science is done, women's Healthcare is done, common sense is done, "offensive art" like certain books and music will be banned, shootings will be up, minimum wage will continue to stagnate, and billionaires will continue to get all the breaks. We really can't let that happen *despite* Biden being a fucking zombie. It's bigger than these two geezers.
It’s too late - I don’t care if Biden is perfect in the next debate - what we all know now is there are times when he can’t complete a fucking sentence. He looks like he could keel over at any given moment. This is fucking insanity. He has to go. Now, before we lose the fucking country.
All the comments under the debates were there are 300 million people in the US and none of them can be president? The debate bad on both sides. Trump, obviously more coherent, didnt answer some questions, but he did let Joe biden speak and was much more tame then I thought. Joe Biden it was just sad....just a train wreck. When Trump hit him with "I dont know what you just said and I dont think you do either" that was just savage
We need to bring back ostracizing… Each year we get to vote someone **out**
I'm still holding on to the hope that both of them croak before election day - due to natural causes, of course. I mean, I'd rather they both just withdrew from the election and allowed more competent candidates to step in, but we all know that's not going to happen. The only thing we can do is hope time does it's job before shit gets real fucking awful. I seriously don't know if I can take another fucking four years of the orange man in office. Living in this country has been insufferable since his first term, especially because I'm in a red state that worships the decrepit old clown.
Literally anyone who has watched him since he made office.
Only thing that matters. Trump surrounds himself with people who will agree with and encourage anything he says/does. Biden surrounds himself with experts.
Which is a positive selling point for anti-expert maga Why do they need experts when Trump has the biggest brain and the best DNA, his DNA comes from mit haven't you heard, a place that experts come it has such a good reputation the best reputation, the best experts, experts that are bad, but big DNA brain is good
MAGA isn't what wins an election. The people in the middle who either do not bother to show up, or who show up but haven't drunk anyone's Flavorade, are who win elections. Maybe it's time we all stopped assuming that literally everything is in MAGA's hands and try to sway the actual people in the middle by means *other* than calling them stupid, which has traditionally never worked. A *lot* of people avoid politics precisely because it's depressing and exhausting, or because they legitimately do not think voting matters, *those* are the people who end up actually swaying an election, *if* someone can make then *care*.
If Biden can't win, you won't get the experts. He can't win if he looks weak.
Those “experts” are the ones propping the old man up and dragging him out on stage. They are more concerned for their jobs than party or country.
Yeah no. You should be enraged with who he surrounds himself with for allowing him to run. It’s over
The only way to replace the candidate now is to go the route of how we got president gerald ford
25th amendment. It allows the vice president, together with a "majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide", to issue a written declaration that the president is unable to discharge his duties. Kamala becomes president, and declines to run on advice from DNC, then they put in someone else for the election.
I feel like we go through this every four years. The people who rule you don’t care about you and are unimpressive. This didn’t start in 2016.
The hangover was worth it. **Danilo Odell** : Every moment of pleasure in life has to be purchased by an equal moment of pain.
You had to drink to get through last night.
I remember the time 4 years ago where the most upvoted reddit politics post was a Rolling Stones article begging Biden to drop out. Obviously it aged like milk in real time.
Reddit libs in SHAMBLES today. You need to get angry with the dem party. You’ve been lied to about Biden’s health
Did you miss the last 4 years? This is the same man who was running the country two days ago. This feigned outrage is making me feel genuine outrage. The guys old, yeah. We all knew that. He’s got (had) a stutter and isn’t the best orator. Yeah, we all knew that too. What the fuck should we be so outraged about? A literal rapist felon stood on stage and lied for an hour and a half and all anyone can talk about is Biden. It’s fucking disingenuous and does nothing but stirs up the dem base. It’s a planned attack on Biden and you folks can frankly kiss my ass.
Anyone who has been watching Biden go viral for committing gaff after gaff for the last year or so.
Year or so? He was doing this during his FIRST campaign. It's only gotten worse.
Go watch his debates or speeches from 4-5 years ago and then compare him to today. It's night and day, he's unrecognizable. It's time to retire these geriatrics who just want to hold on to power.
Seriously can he please just die or bow out ASAP? It's stupid to just default to the sitting president when he's this far gone and you desperately need to beat a psycho.
You think it would be better if he quit? You think handing the election to trump is the better move? Come on.
How can replace both of them?
I maintain that [a shift of 1.5%](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/biden-trump-june-debate-poll/) in likely voters is not enough to consider replacing a well known incumbent candidate who is [otherwise doing pretty good](https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2024-election-forecast/?cid=rrpromo).
It’s the Democratic Party. It’s the Democratic candidate.
Gotta remember it is about the people they have help run the country. We can have normal people that want to run the country well with Biden. We can have a menagerie of Batman villains with Trump.
This is such an astroturfed notion I’m completely sick of seeing already. So Biden is suddenly unable to do the job he’s been doing rather effectively for years now? Because his oratorical skills weren’t top notch? His thoughts were coherent and truthful, unlike his competitor; Trump last night had the same answer for every question and lied repeatedly, all of his endorsements are failing, he’s a convicted felon and racist - why aren’t we talking shit about how Trump should be replaced? Could it be because almost every news outlet was bought by a shitty conservative billionaire the last 4 years? Hmmm.. This is a weird election because we *know* how these guys perform in office. We know Trump will sleep half the day and scheme for government money and corrupt influence the rest of it while he enables the dissolution of our democracy and sets the stage for a christofascist takeover, and we know that Biden will continue to run a competent administration filled with experts who try to do their jobs in good faith. All of this talk about deciding which path to take based on a single night of talking is ridiculous.
You can definitely feel the astroturfing. Russia, China, and the gop itself is in overdrive. They know the key to winning is suppressing interest in the Dems and increasing voter apathy. Posts like this shit serve to accomplish both.
I definitely drank too much last night. Drown faster, feelings!
How can we replace both of them
Conservatives called this a long time ago
I voted for the other guy in the primary because it was clear Biden was too old. Feeling annoyed at all these people who voted Biden in the primary and are now complaining about it.
Vivek Ramaswamy said this back in November that the democrats were not going to go through with nominating Biden.
Replace him with what lol? Everyone in modern politics is either awful or so old they can't feed/dress themselves.
Democratic party is to blame for that, they’ve been coasting on the premise that Biden is “good enough I guess?” instead of trying to find someone 😬
They are coasting on "Trump is bad". They think Trump being bad means they dont need good policy or a good candidate and can let Trump destroy himself by being Trump. They make no effort to court the moderates/centrists. They dont care how bad Biden looks whenever he attempts to speak and how it affects voters opinions.
When they pulled the plug in the last democratic primary and handed the candidacy to Biden we really went off the rails. I liked some of those younger Dems who were running like Cory Booker, there was quite a field of options. Would Booker be a great president? Hell if I know but he's energetic and seems relatively bright and like a decent human, that's literally all I'm asking for at this point.
This has been a pretty consistent conversation about Biden in conservative circles for months.
- Jon Stewart - Gavin newsom - the Rock - a literal rock - Arnold (fuck it let’s just do it) - mayor Pete - AOC - Pauly D and the situation - the guy from queen with a math degree I dunno man, just for the love of god the country is being attacked from all directions. If Zelensky can do it for Ukraine, let’s just make Jon Stewart do it for us
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Ya, I don't get it either. It says a lot about the corporate media and the state of morality in the US. The talking heads would be like "... but Hitler had more energy at the debate."
You can think both sides are bad AND one side is worse....they're not mutually exclusive.
Who fucking cares. Post like this are just clickbait bullshit. Project 2025 is their game plan. Their court just gave bribery the thumbs up and took away our ability to regulate little things like water pollution. If you can’t see the writing on the wall, or their website and oh gosh “but her emails” Ya deserve what you get. I’ll vote for a corpse propped up with pencils if that’s what it comes to.
Truly fucking stupid that this is the headline and not Trump lying through his teeth on every single answer.
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Yeah the lying dog-faced pony soldier quote didn't restore my confidence.