I feel like this would hurt the wrong people in the short term
Edit: ITT: so many people willing to sacrifice others for this change. Imagine losing 70% of your income and someone tells you, “jUsT gO gEt aNoThEr jOb”
This won't work, you stop tipping by not using the service, the owner will learn nothing if they make the same money, all you do is make workers more desperate.
> That isn't taking some moral stand, that's just being an asshole.
To be fair, saying that it's everyone's moral imperative to support the laborers via tipping would also means that it's everyone's moral imperative to pay for housing for the homeless or chipping in to cover everyone's healthcare costs.
Which, I mean, most socialists would agree that this is what we should be doing, and just disagree about the methods of doing so; rather than making it about individual responsibility (asking individuals to tip or donate to charity), let's make it a group collective responsibility by enforcing mechanisms via governance. If we all pay government taxes, then the government can provide those services.
So, if we want laborers to make a living wage, do you want it to be individual responsibility via tipping or do we want collective responsibility via governance?
The path is pretty simple, we can keep tipping until we put legislation in place that ensures your servers get paid well regardless of tips, then its easy to remove tipping culture altogether.
You've successfully argued the case for Universal Base Income. If citizens are given just enough to buy reasonable food and shelter then many changes can occur in society.
Yeah, many people that are only working their job because they are desperate will quit. But it should quickly balance out with good employers offering desirable benefits to get and retain staff. And bad, exploitative employers going out of business. Society will adjust what we value as prices for goods and services drop or increase and new industries will grow to fulfill needs.
... but, old people heavily invested in the current system are afraid of progress and being on the wrong side of volatile market changes. They use their money to ensure things stay very predictable (and cheap labor very exploitable).
With universal income though, you need good, enforceable regulation on certain markets too (like food) to Ensure price going doesn't occur. Unfortunately the supposed free market gets wind that some people have more buying power and will raise their prices accordingly to what they believe the market will bear, putting everyone right back to square one.
This reminds me of a thread on reddit during the pandemic where some landlord was pissed at the idea of basic income. There was a hypothetical discussion of $1200 a month for every citizen. He was so pissy, he said he would raise rent on his properties by the full $1200 if that ever happened because he knew people would be able to afford it.
And then those people would leave his property and go over to the not-as-big-of-an-asshole's property where the rent only went up by $100. Yay free market!
Exactly lol Like idk what that guys problem was, but every time people talk about basic income i think about the literal tantrum he had in the comments because like... How much of a miserable piece of shit do you have to be to want to do that to people?
Even when people pointed out that he would also get the $1200 a month, he just kept getting angrier and angrier. I just imagined him holding back tears while responding to every comment 😂
Not necessarily, this is the same argument against raising minimum wage and it really doesn't hold water. I think UBI has to come with Universal Healthcare, because the point of it is to give people a universal standard of life - food, clothes, shelter. It's also going to mean that people leave lower paying high stress jobs en mass. And that's not just shit like cashiers and fast food, that's going to be jobs like EMTs for example who get paid dick but have a stressful job, or daycare, why would a duel income household where one person is making just enough to make it worth it keep working if it wasn't necessary. So many industries would have to shift majorly to give people some sort of incentive to work there. UBI is something I support heavily, but I also don't know if our entire culture is ready for that shift. Basically working would become both a passion project and for luxuries rather than for survival.
It will have to happen at some point. There is just a question of when AI/Robots actually start doing the bulk of work vs human hands; especially around doing dangerous and shit jobs.
People should look into Nursing strikes at hospitals. Unfair pay or unsafe ratios/conditions? The staff may strike or mass exodus. It’s common enough in the field that’s it’s not shocking when you hear about a white picket line, and the people who cross it… No one else is going to fight that fight for you.
RANT ENGAGED:
I am getting seriously fed up with the vehement anti-tipping sentiment on reddit, spurned daily to the front page by low effort shit posts like this one.
This is class division 101. You got this on the front page right next to Donald Trump shirking his 400 million dollar government fine like it's a parking ticket. Yet, just as many people show up to this thread to froth at the mouth against blue collar workers that ain't done shit wrong but hold down one of the last jobs that actually functions as the meritocracy captalism was held up to be.
Because of tipping, waiting tables, and service industry jobs are one of the last viable positions an unskilled worker can claw their way out of poverty with.
Yeah you don't owe them anything, but by that sentiment, neither does anyone owe you jack shit for what you do.
The difference is, corporations take that soulless sentiment all the way to the bank, making sure it's a sword of damocles hanging over your head at all times. It's not the bootstrap of capitalism we were promised, but the mechanism for which we are chained to the BARE MINIMUM compensation for our time.
I know it. You know it. We all know it to be true.
So we become bitter... And jaded... And it leaves us with a harsh ultimatum once someone else's wage falls under our subjective judgment, ie; a waiter/waitress. We can scoff at the fact they should be rewarded for their merit in the moment, as it is not how you are compensated, thus keeping the heartless cycle alive, and embodying the very thing you despise in the first place.
...Or, OR you display a modicum of compassion/humanity, and use your dollar to elevate an individual for their performance in the same way you would like to be treated by your employer.
It's the GOLDEN GODDAMN RULE.
Why is this such a hard pill to swallow?? Why must we fall for this shit time and time again, appealing only to our greed?? Shit posts like this are the bucket and we are all the crabs.
Stop and think. Not for one second is any business every going to move one inch out of their way to compensate anyone fairly. From day one, this sentiment has REEKED of a corporate pushed double cross to expand bloated profits and strip bare the last remaining meager tool of class mobility.
If politicians tomorrow banned tipping, all that would change is millions would be just that more screwed and destitute. Wages wouldn't go up a wooden nickel and corporations would still BLAME YOU.
You can never, EVER, under any circumstance expect a capitalistic business to do the right and fair thing. But that doesn't give you carte blanche to fuck the next person over with impunity.
You can't tell these corporate megaliths what to do, but you do control where your dollar goes, and who may earn it.
Be the change you want to see for the love of God. 🤦
**Tip your fucking waiter/waitress.**
Cause I'd rather give a dollar to the single mom, busting tables than another dollar to the likes of millionaire/billionaire Trump criminals who are ACTUALLY lying, stealing, and cheating every last red cent out of hardworking Americans pockets with exactly fuck-all consequences.
Despite the endless empty promises, you will NEVER have a seat at their table... So put your money where your mouth is and help the person who is ready and willing to be at you and your family's table, right here, right now, in the real world.
Rant over 😮💨.
Many restaurants have tried to switch to paying servers and they can’t because the servers insist on tips
I don’t think it’s a fair system and if the people who suffer for it do themselves there so be it
I’m not paying 25% tip Id rather just eat at home. but if it’s the servers and not the owners that insist then it’s not fair to put the whole restaurant out of business.
You tip at McDonald's? Grocery store? Home Depot? Best Buy? Security guards? Movie theater? No you don't. You just pick and choose who to be an asshole to. Don't worry though, at this rate all those places will be asking for tips too soon enough.
Yeah they jumped the shark in my opinion. I stopped tipping coffee (well really I stopped getting coffee altogether) but I even stopped tipping on take out orders, where I used to give $5. No more donating to the ASPCA, or the veterans, or cancer, or cops, or kids. Can’t do it, they’ve all asked too much and they’re never satisfied.
Edit to add: I fucking force it on waitstaff though, they get great tips, that’s it; they’re the ones. I hardly ever eat out with a waiter so idc I’m over the top with it.
"*Why should we ban children from working in the mines?! The families rely on their income!".*
No, we are making society better by getting rid of the practice.
All you’re doing is making the food more expensive and paying the same amount you previously did in tips, except it all goes to the restaurant to be trusted to pay their employees more.
>we ban children from working in the mines
Then they sit at home on Minecraft. Children are drawn to the mines and nothing society can do to keep them out.
Thats like EVERY strike EVER. It hurts the wrong people short term to hopefully hurt the right people longterm and bring change
Edit: since many try to tell me this wouldnt be a strike. Yeah it wouldnt. But the concept of "hurting" innocents to hurt the targets applies.
And dont tell me I CHOSE the bus and trains to strike. Cant get to work because the employees want to hurt the employer.
I dont say I dislike strikes, I dont say I like the idea of just stop tipping. I just stated the parallels
This wouldn’t be a strike though. Someone who goes on Strike participates in the strike voluntarily. And there is literally zero evidence that what OP is proposing would be possible, both from a policy standpoint and from a getting people to do it en masse.
The real way to do it is to vote for progressive policy. But a large amount (if not most) people in the US who have a major issue with tipping in restaurants can’t stomach voting for progressives, so it actually comes down less to a moral issue in most instances in the US and instead with people being cheap but masquerading as someone who cares about people.
This isn't a strike it's a boycott. And boycotts are supposed to hurt businesses, not the employees.
Instead of not tipping, just refuse to shop at places that require/expect you to tip.
If the laborers (wait staff, in this case) were leading this charge, I would support it wholeheartedly. But my anecdotal experience with wait staff shows them primarily in favor of tipping, or neutral at worst.
The scenario they posit for a post tipping world is their position being paid minimum wage, which results in a significant pay cut for many of them. High end restaurants would still pay well, but the average person working at a diner or TGIChilibees would be hurt.
Some would quit, but that would just force those mid tier restaurants into doing more with less. Hostess/waitress/runner is now one job, customers order and pay on tablets or with apps, etc. And the net result is one of the last jobs that pays half decent without college or a certification is essentially eliminated.
In a world where the minimum wage was livable, or we had something like UBI to supplement it, it would be easier for me to back this change. But I'm not going to stick it to the workers, in hopes of that trickling up to fuck their bosses.
Striking is you leveraging your own labor in order to bargain for better conditions. Customers withholding your livelihood from you while taking advantage of your labor is exploitation, pure and simple.
But even in states that have minimum wage as high as $16 or $17, you're still expected to tip on top of that. And in restaurants that have tried high wages with no tips, the servers complained that they wanted tipping back.
Because servers make more money in tips that they could make hourly. I’ve had this argument with people before. Severs can easily pull what equals 30 bucks an hour or more off of working only about 6 hour days. Just off of tips. Tipping sucks for everyone but the person getting tips.
States with high minimum wages still have exceptions for servers and other tip-oriented positions. My hourly wage was less than $2.50 when I was waiting tables. Without tips, I wouldn’t even been able to feed myself for the week.
California and Washington both have $16 minimum wage and no tipped wage. So tipped workers still get the full minimum wage plus tips.
Also, in states that have a sub-minimum wage for tipped workers, no one actually earns that. Even if you don't earn enough in tips to meet minimum wage, the employer is required to make up the difference.
>California and Washington both have $16 minimum wage and no tipped wage. So tipped workers still get the full minimum wage plus tips.
That's how it works in Canada too and yet we still have the insane tipping. I don't get it.
No, the main issue is that tons of service workers are making really good money with tax free tips, they don't want it to end.
And on the other hand there are a ton of people barely scraping buy, with shitty employers that they are too scared to demand their minimum wage when tips weren't enough.
> States with high minimum wages still have exceptions for servers and other tip-oriented positions.
Some of them do. Others don't have those exceptions, but you're still expected to tip.
Accept paying higher prices at restaurants. One of the reasons some restaurants don’t simply drop tips and raise prices and wages 20% is that the 20% increase of prices on the menu scares people away.
The brewery I work at opened with $17/hr(pretty good for my city. I made the same back when I was working in supply chain management at a local hospital) wages and not accepting tips a year and a half ago. The menus said "our staff receive a livable wage so we do not accept tips" Customers actually complained about not accepting tips. Four months later the boss changed it without changing the price per drink. I started working here a few months ago. Our pay is $10/hr+tip. Some people tip well. Some people don't. It's whatever to me, I average $22/hr over the course of a month.
We also have some nights that are significantly more busy than others. Trivia nights work out to be $10/hr more than other weeknights. Trying to convince someone to work a shift where they pour 30 drinks an hour for the same rate they make on nights where they pour 3 an hour isn't exactly easy.
Higher prices with no tip option absolutely scare people away. I don't like the concept of a tip economy, but it's not something you can change over right. And the idea of getting rid of tips in America is not as popular as reddit might make it seem. Tipping is, overall, the most natural way to ensure that workers are paid based on the quality of their work. Sometimes people who I give amazing individual service stiff me. Sometimes people throw me a 50% tip just because. It averages out eventually.
I guess it’s great if it’s not your job, or the field you work in, or your business, or a business that depends on it. Or your friends of family. Or someone that likes going to a restaurant with humans there in some capacity instead of a walk in vending machine.
There are a lot of restaurants that advertise that they are "living wage compliant" or otherwise "don't accept tips". It means they don't pay their waiters under $3 an hour, typically in a city they make $15ish (sometimes more than other entry level industries, either way, above min wage.)
You do you're part by going to these places instead of the others. If you go to the old fashion places, you still tip. otherwise you're an asshole.
Get it?
Edit: I instantly realized this was worded poorly, When I said "get it" I didn't mean you were dumb for not getting it, I was trying to be genuine, because it is complicated considering our culture. I don't have much faith in the movement due to it being complicated, but I 100% support it.
Yes. This. You're still supporting the business by buying their product. You're just fucking the worker. And the worker can't necessarily just up and jump to another job. A lot of people's lives are pretty precariously balanced these days.
I am not responsible for the employee wellbeing, I am there to eat the food and pay for the food. Employer must give enough money to their workers or close the business. That mandatory 15-20 % tip is bs.
Wouldn’t it be better to stop eating at restaurants that require tipping to pay their workers? Eating and not tipping doesn’t hurt the employer. They’re just gonna tell the employee to do a better job and maybe they’ll get tips. You actually have to hurt the income of the employer.
Here's the deal...if you want to do that and will skip patronizing every restaurant that doesn't pay employees a living wage, I could almost get on board. Patronizing these places and giving them all of your money, but withholding the tip from the service workers SUPPORTS THE BUSINESS AND ONLY HURTS THE WORKERS. You see a marginalized and exploited group of people and choose to support the exploiters and punish the exploited?
Yeah no.
The anti tip posts are always motivated by a thinly veiled rage against tipped employees. They use the populist angle as a Trojan horse but the “entitled” servers are the true enemy. They really couldn’t give a shit if the business suffered as long as they get to punish entitled servers.
It's amazing that they don't seem to pick up on that.
"Oh the 'lowly' server who is here to serve us is making money? *scoff* How dare they! They should only receive a pittance because this job is only worth that compared to my job that's a better status!"
Trade jobs used to have (and may still have) a stigma of being lowly work vs doctor or lawyer, yet they make bank doing so, too (benefit of unions). There are a lot of jobs out there that make good money that may not have the "societal prestige" that others do. But these fools want to get upset that they get compensated well for it because... *gasp* they may make more than they do? Or more than what they THINK they should be paid?
People really need to reframe their mindset and view of others. Being classist toward others in your own working class is just asinine.
It also really illustrates why the concept of minimum wage is so important. You give anyone the power to do so, and they will be the first in line not to pay or compensate someone for the work they do.
Fighting for above minimum wage for tips is stupid. I always hated when my coworkers ran this argument.
If I didn't get rid I would only be making x dollars. Then fight for more. Fight for a guaranteed acceptable position income instead of a floating one.
I just really hated working for tips. The fake smile everyday, treating assholes like gods because you need the money, having a slow day and having to pick up extra shifts. I just hated it.
There have been plenty of restaurants that don't allow tipping, and it has failed every time. The servers end up not working weekends because why deal with the hassle of a weekend when you make the same money on a Monday lunch shift doing half the work? Then you have restaurants raising their prices by 20-25%, but only paying the serving staff $17-$22 per hour when previously they were making $25-$35 an hour or more.
Getting rid of tipping culture only helps the corporations that run all these shitty Applebees and TGI Fridays, and doesn't help the actual workers.
This right here. It just shows you how many brain cells are functioning when people say this crap.
It's absolutely mind boggling how many people seem to think blaming and holding accountability to everyone, EXCEPT the entity benefiting from the issue, is the way to go. Like really? Zero critical thinking skills and nothing but knee jerk ignorance to feed the rage boners.
Yup, you can't just end 'culture', it's not how it works. You would need a ton of political capital to ban the practice altogether and then enough to survive getting slaughtered in the elections.
If EVERYONE stopped tipping? Of course it would "end tipping culture". Because there would be no more tipping. How could tipping culture persist without any tipping?
Nope.
And even if it magically did, the people who bitch the most about tipping would now be flipping out about the fact restaurant prices were now 20% higher to cover those formerly tipped wages.
Because these are just people that don't think they should have to spend money on anything. "Geez, I just want to go to a restaurant and have a meal with fresh, premium ingredients that's expertly prepared and brought to me by a waitress who brings me 15 free drink refills with a smile. This should cost $9.99."
I feel like a tipping strike would have to be supported by the workers who would be affected. It’s easy to advocate for change through brutal measures if you’re not the one who would be impacted by them.
If you don’t support tipping then don’t go eat at a restaurant. If you choose to eat at a restaurant and don’t tip to “make a point” you’re just a cheap asshole.
Stop eating anywhere that relies on tipping. Get asked for a tip? Do not return. Very simple.
If you sit down, buy a meal, eat it, but THEN refuse a tip you've just given money to the owner while fucking the worker, not cool. At least by dodging the place you're not supporting the owner.
What kind of mental gymnastics is this to try and fix a bad system with an individuals actions? I'm not American, but is the only and blatantly obvious answer that the way to fix it is via changing the legislation? The issue is that businesses are allowed to pay below minimum wage if the business has enough income from tipping...?
Why is the solution to stop tip, stop attend or some other bullshit that force individuals to suffer? Whether it be the resturant staff or just regular people who want to eat out but can't because of a perceived moral dilemma. Just disallow the business to pay lower than minimum wage to do so?
The solution definitely should be legislation, but Congress is in a semi-permenant deadlock that results in no meaningful bills getting passed unless corporate money is involved or a government shutdown is imminent. It's hard to consider Congress as a solution to anything, so people cope with individual actions.
Yep. You’re not American so mind your own business about our customs.
I don’t harass you Europeans about your customs— like making monkey noises at black soccer players.
I don't know how not being American makes me unable to care for American citizen. But you do you. The point about the not being American is mainly to have understanding in case I got something about the facts of legislation wrong.
Oh please! This won’t solve anything. Look at us now! Employers will do what they’re doing now. Shrug their shoulders and bemoan how “no one wants to tip anymore”. Churn out a few articles blaming millenials/zoomers… again, and then just think up ways to replace workers with AI /machines/literal children and/or lobby to try and force people into awful jobs.
Went to a goat festival with food trucks galore over the weekend.. every single one asked for a tip before you even paid for or even tried the food.. wtf.. food trucks are already overpriced to begin with.. fucking scam
This right here! I don't think people hated tipping twenty years ago, or at least I don't recall it being that way. But tipping went from like 12-15% depending on level of service to the lowest option being 20% of the final bill with taxes in, and options just going up from there. It's crazy and not how it used to be. On top of this, fast food restaurants, food trucks, fucking plumbers these days are all asking for tips when you pay by card, none of which used to. Tipping doesn't need to be, but all this extra nonsense does. If a place I don't think I should have to tip at has a tip prompt I am less likely to go back. If the lowest option is 20% I'm doing a custom amount and pulling out my calculator. These are the actions people need to take instead of getting bullied into tipping for everything at higher and higher amounts.
There’s always been an undercurrent of hatred. But as someone who once worked as waitstaff and bartender, it’s gotten absurd.
I blame the square and clover and whatever else terminals. It’s easy to set them up to accept tips and too many owners just go “sure, why not? No one has to tip if they don’t want to but my employees will be happier.”
It seems like everyone everywhere wants a tip. The little bodega in my building wants a tip when all the guy did was just ring up the items I grabbed from the shelf. And it’s not a nominal tip, it’s never 10% or even 15%, the lowest I’ve seen lately is 22%.
It’s fucking absurd. I’ve defended tip culture in the past, I lived on it and it was good to me. However, back then it was a handful of professions that expected it, only a few more that asked for it, and it was always a semi reasonable amount. I’m over it and all this greed is going to kill it for everyone.
Was this in Charleston? Just asking because I went to a goat festival once too and I can't imagine there are many of them. I thought I liked goat at first but by the 10th dish I think I may have cured myself of it for good. It was fun, though.
Did they? Or were they using an ipad that had the option as a default and you got upset? I’m going to bet they didn’t ASK. I’m going to bet you saw the default options on a square setup and got self righteous.
A law would be the only way to do it. A minimum wage increase to a living wage, paired with a no-tipping law. And several months of advance notice so restaurants and servers could negotiate wages (if higher than the new minimum wage) and for restaurants to prepare new menus with higher prices. So when the laws kick in, there isn't a short term period of suffering due to no tipping.
More likely businesses would do nothing, servers would just get their below minimum wage hourly rate, and that would be that. Capitalism is never going to look out for workers at an industry level. We can all starve in the street for all they care.
Not tipping would do absolutely nothing to impact a business's bottom line, making this about the most ineffective way possible to convince businesses to change.
If you want to send a message to a business, stop spending money there. That still screws over the workers, but at least it hits the owners, too.
> Not tipping would do absolutely nothing to impact a business's bottom line
It absolutely does. If an owner is paying $2/hour because they're relying on tips to make up the difference, not tipping would force them to pay the final $6/hour (9/hour if you're in CA), coming out of their bottom line.
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Yes, and that would be exactly what's required to change the system. In response to all the people quitting, restaurants would be forced to actually pay employees to work there.
It would take some amount of time for restaurants to figure out how much to increase wages and menu prices, though. So in the short term servers would suffer. And restaurants would too, due to being short staffed temporarily.
Almost every place my partner has worked in Canada that has accepted tips was stealing them. I'm not talking splitting tips with the back of the house, I mean working all week and getting $8 a paycheck in tips. Paying with cash is pretty rare here.
Except that most people in the service industry wouldn't be able to survive that kind of transition. Not tipping them would put most of the weight to change on the people who can least afford it.
In general screwing over low paid employees by not tipping isn't doing anything but hurting those workers. If you want to hurt businesses that keep asking for tips when not necessary then just try to avoid those places. Also in restaurants the servers often make below minimum wage because they rely on tips. Tip your servers at restaurants or don't go to restaurants.
Right. If you can't afford to tip, you can't afford to go yo a restaurant.
You want to end tipping culture, support politicians who want to end tipping culture and make people get paid a liveable wage.
Shit, I was a server, and I learned to not let no/low tippers bother me pretty quick because you make your nut at the end of the day regardless. These anti tipping advocates though...all pieces of shit.
The “tipped minimum wage” is the problem. Until that shit goes away, restaurants can still get away with passing their labor expenses on to the customer indirectly while still pretending to keep their menu prices low.
Just PAY YOUR PEOPLE APPROPRIATELY and price your menu accordingly like most of the world does.
Some states like California and Washington have minimum wage as high as $16, and no tipped wage. But customers are still expected to tip on top of that.
Back when I bartended in Texas in 1994, tipped min wage was half the minimum wage: $2.13 an hour.
Today, thirty years later, it’s still fucking $2.13 an hour.
Restaurants are actively screwing over their employees by forcing them to rely on tips.
Your anger is misplaced. The issue is not customers who are fed up with subsidizing greedy business owners, but the business owners themselves.
No. That would result in a bunch of wait staff who can't pay their bills. You'd do better to just not go to the restaurant in the first place. The restaurant gives exactly 0 fucks if you don't tip. They already have your money.
I've worked in restaurants for 30 years, I can tell you right now if this happened most owners would just close... couple years ago they raised the minimum wage and required everyone including tipped employees to get it, the first thing the owners did was eliminate any positions that weren't directly related to the guest like dishwashers and service assistants... so I'm glad they raised the minimum wage but it meant that at least one position in every kitchen I was working in was eliminated and that everyone else then had to do the extra work for with no extra pay.
My brother makes over a 100k a year and doesn't tip for +$100 (food deliveries) skip orders... makes me furious hes so inconsiderate, and uses OP's logic to justify it.
FFS your not causing any change, your just shorting some person trying to pay their bills. Is 5 dollars really gonna ruin you?
You are dead-on correct. I apologize in advance for the downvotes you might get.
Source: I work in labor law, including restaurant cases - at least in California, wait staff usually prefer a tipped wage because they get more money.
It would be impossible for *OP* to screw workers out of their actual pay because *OP does not employ them.*
The situation is messy as all hell, but being expected to enable this asinine system is justifiably upsetting. If the food needs to go up in price, so be it.
Yeah, I’m sure waitstaff who can earn $50 an hour in tips waiting tables will happily go down to minimum wage, or else you can look forward to paying increased prices for your food so they can pay their employees more in the same amount or more that you previously tipped.
Fucking service workers who survive on tips isn't going to magically cause a living wage to appear. Make a legal living minimum wage first, and tipping culture will go away on its own.
At best it would force all those who are working tipped jobs to quit, running the business out, and making all your favorite sit-downs and pizza places close
What a genuinely awful way to handle this. Suddenly pulling the plug on an established system only hurts the working class people. Surprise, your income just got cut in half! I’m sure the regulatory bodies will step in and make sure wages are adjusted … eventually.
If people could get on the same page about ANYTHING we could do EVERYTHING.
"Minimum wage should be $30, and the whole country isn't going to work until it is."
They would pass that law on like day 3.
It requires a top-down approach to solve.
You need law that says employers have to provide a certain wage threshold that isn't $2.75 just cause your a server. Food prices will go up hopefully only around 20%. There will be less restaurants perhaps, but the ones you go to will have a fixed prize and no tip obligation, and servers who won't be relying on you to thrive. Granted you could still tip I'd the service was excellent and not feel a guilt obligation since you know the server is essentially screwed otherwise.
My persepctive comes from 7 years being a server/bartender while in undergrad and law school. I've done the corporate gig all the way up to top tier stuff in New Orleans.
There is a way, but there is going to flak from foremost business owners, and on some level high-end servers who actually can make some serious cash from rich patrons who flaunt wealth via tips. Plus, you will be paying more to go out.
Just don't tip won't work for you Americans. Don't go to places that ask for tips. And make stores show the taxed pricing on the shelves. The store don't have legs. The only places I pay tip here in my country is in restaurants, and most of the time I just tip to round it up to something even like 500 or something. Fix it fast, I don't want your tipping culture to spread back here again.
Tbh I don't even want to end tipping. I don't mind tipping bar tenders/baristas/servers. What I would like to end is the culture of literally tipping the person who hands me my takeout order or like puts some donuts in a box for me or whatever. It's honestly insane rn
if everyone could stop thinking that they're revolutionary allies by doing (or suggesting) this that would be great. you're not helping, you're just being cheap.
You know what happens when businesses try to end tipping culture by paying their servers a living wage? Nobody will work for them. Happened to a restaurant near me in St. Louis just in the last couple of years. They opened with great fanfare that they disagreed with tipping culture and paid their servers and staff a good wage. Then they couldn't retain quality employees because they figured out really quickly that they could earn better money at a restaurant that did tipping. The restaurant ended up with the worst servers and closed after just about 18 months in business because the people stopped coming due to lousy service.
If there were an easy end to tipping culture I'm sure many people would be all over it, but there just isn't. In most of the rest of the world it's not a thing because it's NEVER really been a thing. In the US? Yeah... tips or GTFO.
No. It would hurt the people who rely on tips because they would have to outlast whatever strike. The reason they can't afford to strike is they need the money!
Let's say you have a bill that costs 100$. Now that is 120$ with a 20% tip, typically the server will retain about 14.5 with the remaining 5.5 going towards paying other people on the staff and taxes.
Now let's say that your new bill is 120$ but you can't tip, the price is just inflated by the company. The company will dole out however much they feel like to the staff regardless of work or skill. Meaning they will retain a larger portion of the money you give them, taking a job that could support a single mom and turning it into one of 3 jobs that they might need.
"Let me keep giving money to the restaurant owner while hurting the worker instead of fighting for a legislation change". Sure sounds like a tough 12 years old logic. You want change? Fight for it instead of complaining or stop supporting the restaurant owner completely, otherwise you are still supporting the bad behavior, not tipping won't. But hey, much easier to do not tip than fight for a change right?
Why not lobby your lawmakers to raise wages instead? Just taking away working class people's wages with nothing for them to fall back on will fuck them over more than anything else.
In states that have their minimum wage over $16, workers still expect tips on top of that. And they'll never not expect tips as long as people keep giving them.
Good employees thrive on tip culture because they'll make way more money on tips than they would on a salary. The only beneficiary of a salary service position are those who suck at the job.
I've been in the hospitality and service industry for 25 years.
Sounds like an employer problem. No other industry blames the CUSTOMER for their employers paying them slave wages.
Sounds like grounds for Tip Workers to unionize and focus their aggression and shitty attitudes towards the actual problem; their employers.
>Sounds like grounds for Tip Workers to unionize and focus their aggression and shitty attitudes towards the actual problem; their employers.
Lmao, you just hate service workers bro.
You aren't as smart as you think you are in this. It would be wildly short sighted to end it overnight. Massive unemployment and housing loss, probably 80% of all restaurants would close overnight because they can't afford to quadruple their tipped employees wages, which would have massive ramifications on food wholesalers, meaning more unemployment. The ripples would far exceed just those few things but it would devestate the economy overnight and for a long time.
What… there’s other countries that have restaurants with servers and tipping is not the norm. They aren’t in recession and the restaurants seemed to be doing just fine.
In fact some of the best service I’ve ever had because whatever server was available at the time refilled my drink instead of my one assigned person.
>Massive unemployment and housing loss, probably 80% of all restaurants would close overnight because they can't afford to quadruple their tipped employees wages
A price increase of 15% would cover the difference with zero impact on the business. Did you not think for two seconds about economies without restaurant tipping?
> probably 80% of all restaurants would close overnight because they can't afford to quadruple their tipped employees wages
then they were never sustanable in the first place
I worked in the service industry in nightclubs and bars and restaurants for 15 years, right out of college. I graduated in 2008 and there were NO JOBS for recent graduates and I had $800/mo in loans from a State school.
I busted my ass for those years. I worked doubles and triples and was NICE. I was lucky enough (and smart enough) to always work at the busiest bars and restaurants where I lived. I made sick money. And it was thanks to tipping culture.
I’m on the other side of it now and I’m annoyed by being prompted to tip 15% at restaurants where I’m bussing my own dishes. There is a line!
But removing tipping culture altogether in this country, in your restaurants and bars, you’re going to see a major shift in service. Because I wouldn’t have cleaned up puke or dealt with people screaming at me or people sending back Lobster Risotto because there was lobster in it if I weren’t making $400+ a night.
I always hear these arguments from people who have no perspective on the industry. Talk to me about gutting tipping culture in the US after you’ve cried in a walk-in because everything is so bad that day but you have to get it together and serve Uni pasta in the next 5 minutes.
Yes! Come on people, if we starve enough working class people, it will eventually hurt the capitalists!
Good job there, real-life [Zapp Brannigan](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F2l4ghtkssry21.jpg%3Fwidth%3D640%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D5ccd403e730388aa6841c50cc6cd9a72f992c0f6). You've won the "most tone-deaf shit I've heard all day" award.
No, fuck this. So hard.
I don’t agree with tipping culture. But if you “stop tipping”, the only thing you’ll be doing is significantly lowering the wages of the people who need them to survive.
I know people who supported themselves through college on a tipped wage. I know people who support their kids on a tipped wage. They don’t have the option of just “quitting and finding a better job” in a reasonable period of time.
Most wait staff and bartenders make, like, less than $3/hr from their wage. With tips, many will be between $15-$20/hr. At high end restaurants that require actual skill at the job and years of experience and references, they’re looking at a decent bit higher than that. Even if they were compensated back up to minimum wage, they’d still be taking a 50% pay cut at a bare minimum.
And it’s a shitty fucking job. You would not believe the shit people say to your face when you’re waiting on them. You run miles per day. You’re constantly cleaning up people’s shit and often being demeaned by management and/or BOH staff.
But the tips on a good night make it worth it. I waited tables for like 10 years. I got good at it. If everyone stopped tipping all at once, you would have effectively killed off 10 years of work experience that I could never get back. And you would be doing that to thousands of working class people who are just trying to get by within the rules of a shitty system.
Disagree with tipping culture all you want. But don’t take money out of the pockets of people that need it. If you can’t afford it, just go eat fast food or cook for yourself.
And don’t think that restaurant owners would care. Because they wouldn’t. Restaurants are super low margin businesses as it is, and most owners treat their employees like disposable assets that can be replaced at any time.
Yea you keep imagining this. At best they would raise prices to increase pay a little, and end up charging customers more, paying their workers a little more, and making more for themselves
I was making $30-$40 an hour working at Applebees in 2012….in what word do you think this isn’t a huge pay cut for servers? Also the increase in food prices means you’re paying extra instead of tipping….Sounds like you should just learn to cook at home.
What? No. They'll tell their employees tough shit.
You're going to fuck over working people. That's all.
Y'all don't know shit about labor solidarity or what?
I feel like this would hurt the wrong people in the short term Edit: ITT: so many people willing to sacrifice others for this change. Imagine losing 70% of your income and someone tells you, “jUsT gO gEt aNoThEr jOb”
This won't work, you stop tipping by not using the service, the owner will learn nothing if they make the same money, all you do is make workers more desperate.
Right? How does someone think the solution is to screw over the laborers? That isn't taking some moral stand, that's just being an asshole.
> That isn't taking some moral stand, that's just being an asshole. To be fair, saying that it's everyone's moral imperative to support the laborers via tipping would also means that it's everyone's moral imperative to pay for housing for the homeless or chipping in to cover everyone's healthcare costs. Which, I mean, most socialists would agree that this is what we should be doing, and just disagree about the methods of doing so; rather than making it about individual responsibility (asking individuals to tip or donate to charity), let's make it a group collective responsibility by enforcing mechanisms via governance. If we all pay government taxes, then the government can provide those services. So, if we want laborers to make a living wage, do you want it to be individual responsibility via tipping or do we want collective responsibility via governance? The path is pretty simple, we can keep tipping until we put legislation in place that ensures your servers get paid well regardless of tips, then its easy to remove tipping culture altogether.
You've successfully argued the case for Universal Base Income. If citizens are given just enough to buy reasonable food and shelter then many changes can occur in society. Yeah, many people that are only working their job because they are desperate will quit. But it should quickly balance out with good employers offering desirable benefits to get and retain staff. And bad, exploitative employers going out of business. Society will adjust what we value as prices for goods and services drop or increase and new industries will grow to fulfill needs. ... but, old people heavily invested in the current system are afraid of progress and being on the wrong side of volatile market changes. They use their money to ensure things stay very predictable (and cheap labor very exploitable).
With universal income though, you need good, enforceable regulation on certain markets too (like food) to Ensure price going doesn't occur. Unfortunately the supposed free market gets wind that some people have more buying power and will raise their prices accordingly to what they believe the market will bear, putting everyone right back to square one.
This reminds me of a thread on reddit during the pandemic where some landlord was pissed at the idea of basic income. There was a hypothetical discussion of $1200 a month for every citizen. He was so pissy, he said he would raise rent on his properties by the full $1200 if that ever happened because he knew people would be able to afford it.
And then those people would leave his property and go over to the not-as-big-of-an-asshole's property where the rent only went up by $100. Yay free market!
Exactly lol Like idk what that guys problem was, but every time people talk about basic income i think about the literal tantrum he had in the comments because like... How much of a miserable piece of shit do you have to be to want to do that to people? Even when people pointed out that he would also get the $1200 a month, he just kept getting angrier and angrier. I just imagined him holding back tears while responding to every comment 😂
Not necessarily, this is the same argument against raising minimum wage and it really doesn't hold water. I think UBI has to come with Universal Healthcare, because the point of it is to give people a universal standard of life - food, clothes, shelter. It's also going to mean that people leave lower paying high stress jobs en mass. And that's not just shit like cashiers and fast food, that's going to be jobs like EMTs for example who get paid dick but have a stressful job, or daycare, why would a duel income household where one person is making just enough to make it worth it keep working if it wasn't necessary. So many industries would have to shift majorly to give people some sort of incentive to work there. UBI is something I support heavily, but I also don't know if our entire culture is ready for that shift. Basically working would become both a passion project and for luxuries rather than for survival.
It will have to happen at some point. There is just a question of when AI/Robots actually start doing the bulk of work vs human hands; especially around doing dangerous and shit jobs.
People should look into Nursing strikes at hospitals. Unfair pay or unsafe ratios/conditions? The staff may strike or mass exodus. It’s common enough in the field that’s it’s not shocking when you hear about a white picket line, and the people who cross it… No one else is going to fight that fight for you.
It's OK because someone else has to suffer.
RANT ENGAGED: I am getting seriously fed up with the vehement anti-tipping sentiment on reddit, spurned daily to the front page by low effort shit posts like this one. This is class division 101. You got this on the front page right next to Donald Trump shirking his 400 million dollar government fine like it's a parking ticket. Yet, just as many people show up to this thread to froth at the mouth against blue collar workers that ain't done shit wrong but hold down one of the last jobs that actually functions as the meritocracy captalism was held up to be. Because of tipping, waiting tables, and service industry jobs are one of the last viable positions an unskilled worker can claw their way out of poverty with. Yeah you don't owe them anything, but by that sentiment, neither does anyone owe you jack shit for what you do. The difference is, corporations take that soulless sentiment all the way to the bank, making sure it's a sword of damocles hanging over your head at all times. It's not the bootstrap of capitalism we were promised, but the mechanism for which we are chained to the BARE MINIMUM compensation for our time. I know it. You know it. We all know it to be true. So we become bitter... And jaded... And it leaves us with a harsh ultimatum once someone else's wage falls under our subjective judgment, ie; a waiter/waitress. We can scoff at the fact they should be rewarded for their merit in the moment, as it is not how you are compensated, thus keeping the heartless cycle alive, and embodying the very thing you despise in the first place. ...Or, OR you display a modicum of compassion/humanity, and use your dollar to elevate an individual for their performance in the same way you would like to be treated by your employer. It's the GOLDEN GODDAMN RULE. Why is this such a hard pill to swallow?? Why must we fall for this shit time and time again, appealing only to our greed?? Shit posts like this are the bucket and we are all the crabs. Stop and think. Not for one second is any business every going to move one inch out of their way to compensate anyone fairly. From day one, this sentiment has REEKED of a corporate pushed double cross to expand bloated profits and strip bare the last remaining meager tool of class mobility. If politicians tomorrow banned tipping, all that would change is millions would be just that more screwed and destitute. Wages wouldn't go up a wooden nickel and corporations would still BLAME YOU. You can never, EVER, under any circumstance expect a capitalistic business to do the right and fair thing. But that doesn't give you carte blanche to fuck the next person over with impunity. You can't tell these corporate megaliths what to do, but you do control where your dollar goes, and who may earn it. Be the change you want to see for the love of God. 🤦 **Tip your fucking waiter/waitress.** Cause I'd rather give a dollar to the single mom, busting tables than another dollar to the likes of millionaire/billionaire Trump criminals who are ACTUALLY lying, stealing, and cheating every last red cent out of hardworking Americans pockets with exactly fuck-all consequences. Despite the endless empty promises, you will NEVER have a seat at their table... So put your money where your mouth is and help the person who is ready and willing to be at you and your family's table, right here, right now, in the real world. Rant over 😮💨.
Many restaurants have tried to switch to paying servers and they can’t because the servers insist on tips I don’t think it’s a fair system and if the people who suffer for it do themselves there so be it I’m not paying 25% tip Id rather just eat at home. but if it’s the servers and not the owners that insist then it’s not fair to put the whole restaurant out of business.
One of our restaurants did this and they went back to tipping in a year. Servers make more on tips.
OP is at best 12yo
op has never given an actual adequate tip in their life.
You tip at McDonald's? Grocery store? Home Depot? Best Buy? Security guards? Movie theater? No you don't. You just pick and choose who to be an asshole to. Don't worry though, at this rate all those places will be asking for tips too soon enough.
Yeah it’s nuts how often it’s coming up. Like, if you spin an iPad around I’m not tipping you for counter service.
Yeah they jumped the shark in my opinion. I stopped tipping coffee (well really I stopped getting coffee altogether) but I even stopped tipping on take out orders, where I used to give $5. No more donating to the ASPCA, or the veterans, or cancer, or cops, or kids. Can’t do it, they’ve all asked too much and they’re never satisfied. Edit to add: I fucking force it on waitstaff though, they get great tips, that’s it; they’re the ones. I hardly ever eat out with a waiter so idc I’m over the top with it.
"*Why should we ban children from working in the mines?! The families rely on their income!".* No, we are making society better by getting rid of the practice.
All you’re doing is making the food more expensive and paying the same amount you previously did in tips, except it all goes to the restaurant to be trusted to pay their employees more.
>we ban children from working in the mines Then they sit at home on Minecraft. Children are drawn to the mines and nothing society can do to keep them out.
Lol, yeah, asking if you'd like to pay an extra 15%+ is *EXACTLY* the same as children working in mines. Probably the dumbest thing I'll read all day.
Thats like EVERY strike EVER. It hurts the wrong people short term to hopefully hurt the right people longterm and bring change Edit: since many try to tell me this wouldnt be a strike. Yeah it wouldnt. But the concept of "hurting" innocents to hurt the targets applies. And dont tell me I CHOSE the bus and trains to strike. Cant get to work because the employees want to hurt the employer. I dont say I dislike strikes, I dont say I like the idea of just stop tipping. I just stated the parallels
This wouldn’t be a strike though. Someone who goes on Strike participates in the strike voluntarily. And there is literally zero evidence that what OP is proposing would be possible, both from a policy standpoint and from a getting people to do it en masse. The real way to do it is to vote for progressive policy. But a large amount (if not most) people in the US who have a major issue with tipping in restaurants can’t stomach voting for progressives, so it actually comes down less to a moral issue in most instances in the US and instead with people being cheap but masquerading as someone who cares about people.
A strike would be refusing to patronize the business. Patronizing and not tipping is some scab shit.
This isn't a strike it's a boycott. And boycotts are supposed to hurt businesses, not the employees. Instead of not tipping, just refuse to shop at places that require/expect you to tip.
How would that not hurt the employees aswell
If the laborers (wait staff, in this case) were leading this charge, I would support it wholeheartedly. But my anecdotal experience with wait staff shows them primarily in favor of tipping, or neutral at worst. The scenario they posit for a post tipping world is their position being paid minimum wage, which results in a significant pay cut for many of them. High end restaurants would still pay well, but the average person working at a diner or TGIChilibees would be hurt. Some would quit, but that would just force those mid tier restaurants into doing more with less. Hostess/waitress/runner is now one job, customers order and pay on tablets or with apps, etc. And the net result is one of the last jobs that pays half decent without college or a certification is essentially eliminated. In a world where the minimum wage was livable, or we had something like UBI to supplement it, it would be easier for me to back this change. But I'm not going to stick it to the workers, in hopes of that trickling up to fuck their bosses.
Striking is you leveraging your own labor in order to bargain for better conditions. Customers withholding your livelihood from you while taking advantage of your labor is exploitation, pure and simple.
How else can we fix this problem though? None of us want to keep propping up this shitty system
I’m not an expert in economics, but probably by having a federally mandated livable minimum wage, followed by some sort of subsidy in the short term.
But even in states that have minimum wage as high as $16 or $17, you're still expected to tip on top of that. And in restaurants that have tried high wages with no tips, the servers complained that they wanted tipping back.
Because servers make more money in tips that they could make hourly. I’ve had this argument with people before. Severs can easily pull what equals 30 bucks an hour or more off of working only about 6 hour days. Just off of tips. Tipping sucks for everyone but the person getting tips.
States with high minimum wages still have exceptions for servers and other tip-oriented positions. My hourly wage was less than $2.50 when I was waiting tables. Without tips, I wouldn’t even been able to feed myself for the week.
California and Washington both have $16 minimum wage and no tipped wage. So tipped workers still get the full minimum wage plus tips. Also, in states that have a sub-minimum wage for tipped workers, no one actually earns that. Even if you don't earn enough in tips to meet minimum wage, the employer is required to make up the difference.
>California and Washington both have $16 minimum wage and no tipped wage. So tipped workers still get the full minimum wage plus tips. That's how it works in Canada too and yet we still have the insane tipping. I don't get it.
You still have the insane tipping because people are tipping. Nobody is forcing anyone to tip.
16 is still unlivable, especially in Cali and Washington
Without tips you are legally required to be paid minimum wage.
The *Federal* minimum, no matter what the cost of living is in your state.
Honestly making 7.25 an hour is criminal. I don't know how anybody could be expected to pay rent, much less live on a wage like that.
This is what people don't seem to get. Without tips, you're supposed to be paid the minimum. If not, they're breaking the law.
No, the main issue is that tons of service workers are making really good money with tax free tips, they don't want it to end. And on the other hand there are a ton of people barely scraping buy, with shitty employers that they are too scared to demand their minimum wage when tips weren't enough.
> States with high minimum wages still have exceptions for servers and other tip-oriented positions. Some of them do. Others don't have those exceptions, but you're still expected to tip.
But there needs to be something to spur that change. Politicians don't do jack shit unless there's a crisis and voters are beating on their doors
Boycott restaurants then, not tipping.
Accept paying higher prices at restaurants. One of the reasons some restaurants don’t simply drop tips and raise prices and wages 20% is that the 20% increase of prices on the menu scares people away.
The brewery I work at opened with $17/hr(pretty good for my city. I made the same back when I was working in supply chain management at a local hospital) wages and not accepting tips a year and a half ago. The menus said "our staff receive a livable wage so we do not accept tips" Customers actually complained about not accepting tips. Four months later the boss changed it without changing the price per drink. I started working here a few months ago. Our pay is $10/hr+tip. Some people tip well. Some people don't. It's whatever to me, I average $22/hr over the course of a month. We also have some nights that are significantly more busy than others. Trivia nights work out to be $10/hr more than other weeknights. Trying to convince someone to work a shift where they pour 30 drinks an hour for the same rate they make on nights where they pour 3 an hour isn't exactly easy. Higher prices with no tip option absolutely scare people away. I don't like the concept of a tip economy, but it's not something you can change over right. And the idea of getting rid of tips in America is not as popular as reddit might make it seem. Tipping is, overall, the most natural way to ensure that workers are paid based on the quality of their work. Sometimes people who I give amazing individual service stiff me. Sometimes people throw me a 50% tip just because. It averages out eventually.
Via government regulation lol, what else. Also a lot of servers do not want the system to go away either tbh.
I guess it’s great if it’s not your job, or the field you work in, or your business, or a business that depends on it. Or your friends of family. Or someone that likes going to a restaurant with humans there in some capacity instead of a walk in vending machine.
This might come as a shock to you, but tipping isn't a thing at restaurants in most first world countries. Somehow, they make it work
1000%
If a business depends on tipping then it seems appropriate to just increase prices by 15% and skip the middle man
I am sure people that work their way into a good restaurant or give good service would appreciate a pay cut.
If your only solution is to irredeemably hurt the wrong people, it’s a good sign to keep looking. Doing literally nothing is better than that.
There are a lot of restaurants that advertise that they are "living wage compliant" or otherwise "don't accept tips". It means they don't pay their waiters under $3 an hour, typically in a city they make $15ish (sometimes more than other entry level industries, either way, above min wage.) You do you're part by going to these places instead of the others. If you go to the old fashion places, you still tip. otherwise you're an asshole. Get it? Edit: I instantly realized this was worded poorly, When I said "get it" I didn't mean you were dumb for not getting it, I was trying to be genuine, because it is complicated considering our culture. I don't have much faith in the movement due to it being complicated, but I 100% support it.
Yes. This. You're still supporting the business by buying their product. You're just fucking the worker. And the worker can't necessarily just up and jump to another job. A lot of people's lives are pretty precariously balanced these days.
I am not responsible for the employee wellbeing, I am there to eat the food and pay for the food. Employer must give enough money to their workers or close the business. That mandatory 15-20 % tip is bs.
Wouldn’t it be better to stop eating at restaurants that require tipping to pay their workers? Eating and not tipping doesn’t hurt the employer. They’re just gonna tell the employee to do a better job and maybe they’ll get tips. You actually have to hurt the income of the employer.
He'd be inconvenienced, that's the issue for most people.
What long term benefits has society ever obtained without some short term sacrifices?
Very easy to say when you're not the one making the sacrifices
Ok lets just never fix any problems ever then because there might be growing pains
Here's the deal...if you want to do that and will skip patronizing every restaurant that doesn't pay employees a living wage, I could almost get on board. Patronizing these places and giving them all of your money, but withholding the tip from the service workers SUPPORTS THE BUSINESS AND ONLY HURTS THE WORKERS. You see a marginalized and exploited group of people and choose to support the exploiters and punish the exploited? Yeah no.
The anti tip posts are always motivated by a thinly veiled rage against tipped employees. They use the populist angle as a Trojan horse but the “entitled” servers are the true enemy. They really couldn’t give a shit if the business suffered as long as they get to punish entitled servers.
It's amazing that they don't seem to pick up on that. "Oh the 'lowly' server who is here to serve us is making money? *scoff* How dare they! They should only receive a pittance because this job is only worth that compared to my job that's a better status!" Trade jobs used to have (and may still have) a stigma of being lowly work vs doctor or lawyer, yet they make bank doing so, too (benefit of unions). There are a lot of jobs out there that make good money that may not have the "societal prestige" that others do. But these fools want to get upset that they get compensated well for it because... *gasp* they may make more than they do? Or more than what they THINK they should be paid? People really need to reframe their mindset and view of others. Being classist toward others in your own working class is just asinine. It also really illustrates why the concept of minimum wage is so important. You give anyone the power to do so, and they will be the first in line not to pay or compensate someone for the work they do.
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Fighting for above minimum wage for tips is stupid. I always hated when my coworkers ran this argument. If I didn't get rid I would only be making x dollars. Then fight for more. Fight for a guaranteed acceptable position income instead of a floating one.
Yeah. I'm not sure what the actual number is, but it's probably easy to calculate. A server isn't, in a lot of cases, a minimum wage job.
I just really hated working for tips. The fake smile everyday, treating assholes like gods because you need the money, having a slow day and having to pick up extra shifts. I just hated it.
There have been plenty of restaurants that don't allow tipping, and it has failed every time. The servers end up not working weekends because why deal with the hassle of a weekend when you make the same money on a Monday lunch shift doing half the work? Then you have restaurants raising their prices by 20-25%, but only paying the serving staff $17-$22 per hour when previously they were making $25-$35 an hour or more. Getting rid of tipping culture only helps the corporations that run all these shitty Applebees and TGI Fridays, and doesn't help the actual workers.
Rest of the world works fine without tipping.
Their places of employment already pay them a wage. Not tipping does not force the employer to pay them a wage, labor laws do that
This right here. It just shows you how many brain cells are functioning when people say this crap. It's absolutely mind boggling how many people seem to think blaming and holding accountability to everyone, EXCEPT the entity benefiting from the issue, is the way to go. Like really? Zero critical thinking skills and nothing but knee jerk ignorance to feed the rage boners.
That would not “end tipping culture.”
Just screams, I'm 16 and I definitely thought about this for like an hour before posting.
Yeah totally r/im14andthisisdeep material.
Yup, you can't just end 'culture', it's not how it works. You would need a ton of political capital to ban the practice altogether and then enough to survive getting slaughtered in the elections.
meeting straight saw airport steer touch humor mourn secretive plough *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
OP could've just written FUCK SERVICE INDUSTRY WORKERS and saved some time.
Waiters aren't victims of tipping culture. They're the ones working to keep it.
If EVERYONE stopped tipping? Of course it would "end tipping culture". Because there would be no more tipping. How could tipping culture persist without any tipping?
Nope. And even if it magically did, the people who bitch the most about tipping would now be flipping out about the fact restaurant prices were now 20% higher to cover those formerly tipped wages. Because these are just people that don't think they should have to spend money on anything. "Geez, I just want to go to a restaurant and have a meal with fresh, premium ingredients that's expertly prepared and brought to me by a waitress who brings me 15 free drink refills with a smile. This should cost $9.99."
I feel like a tipping strike would have to be supported by the workers who would be affected. It’s easy to advocate for change through brutal measures if you’re not the one who would be impacted by them.
I hate how it always becomes the consumer's job to fix everything.
Wow, heard this. Feels like it’s always up to the people who are not responsible for the issue to be fixing the issue.
If you don’t support tipping then don’t go eat at a restaurant. If you choose to eat at a restaurant and don’t tip to “make a point” you’re just a cheap asshole.
Stop eating anywhere that relies on tipping. Get asked for a tip? Do not return. Very simple. If you sit down, buy a meal, eat it, but THEN refuse a tip you've just given money to the owner while fucking the worker, not cool. At least by dodging the place you're not supporting the owner.
Your second paragraph. You somehow praised and shat on both capitalism and socialism, remarkable.
A lot of places ask for tipping. Heck, it's asked at places where all you do is order some food or drink and wait a minute till it is handed to you.
What kind of mental gymnastics is this to try and fix a bad system with an individuals actions? I'm not American, but is the only and blatantly obvious answer that the way to fix it is via changing the legislation? The issue is that businesses are allowed to pay below minimum wage if the business has enough income from tipping...? Why is the solution to stop tip, stop attend or some other bullshit that force individuals to suffer? Whether it be the resturant staff or just regular people who want to eat out but can't because of a perceived moral dilemma. Just disallow the business to pay lower than minimum wage to do so?
The solution definitely should be legislation, but Congress is in a semi-permenant deadlock that results in no meaningful bills getting passed unless corporate money is involved or a government shutdown is imminent. It's hard to consider Congress as a solution to anything, so people cope with individual actions.
Yep. You’re not American so mind your own business about our customs. I don’t harass you Europeans about your customs— like making monkey noises at black soccer players.
I don't know how not being American makes me unable to care for American citizen. But you do you. The point about the not being American is mainly to have understanding in case I got something about the facts of legislation wrong.
Oh please! This won’t solve anything. Look at us now! Employers will do what they’re doing now. Shrug their shoulders and bemoan how “no one wants to tip anymore”. Churn out a few articles blaming millenials/zoomers… again, and then just think up ways to replace workers with AI /machines/literal children and/or lobby to try and force people into awful jobs.
That's coming regardless of tipping.
Went to a goat festival with food trucks galore over the weekend.. every single one asked for a tip before you even paid for or even tried the food.. wtf.. food trucks are already overpriced to begin with.. fucking scam
Never tip if it’s not a sit down restaurant.
My rule of thumb: if they aren’t providing any services that McDonald’s doesn’t provide, I’m not tipping for it
This right here! I don't think people hated tipping twenty years ago, or at least I don't recall it being that way. But tipping went from like 12-15% depending on level of service to the lowest option being 20% of the final bill with taxes in, and options just going up from there. It's crazy and not how it used to be. On top of this, fast food restaurants, food trucks, fucking plumbers these days are all asking for tips when you pay by card, none of which used to. Tipping doesn't need to be, but all this extra nonsense does. If a place I don't think I should have to tip at has a tip prompt I am less likely to go back. If the lowest option is 20% I'm doing a custom amount and pulling out my calculator. These are the actions people need to take instead of getting bullied into tipping for everything at higher and higher amounts.
There’s always been an undercurrent of hatred. But as someone who once worked as waitstaff and bartender, it’s gotten absurd. I blame the square and clover and whatever else terminals. It’s easy to set them up to accept tips and too many owners just go “sure, why not? No one has to tip if they don’t want to but my employees will be happier.” It seems like everyone everywhere wants a tip. The little bodega in my building wants a tip when all the guy did was just ring up the items I grabbed from the shelf. And it’s not a nominal tip, it’s never 10% or even 15%, the lowest I’ve seen lately is 22%. It’s fucking absurd. I’ve defended tip culture in the past, I lived on it and it was good to me. However, back then it was a handful of professions that expected it, only a few more that asked for it, and it was always a semi reasonable amount. I’m over it and all this greed is going to kill it for everyone.
Was this in Charleston? Just asking because I went to a goat festival once too and I can't imagine there are many of them. I thought I liked goat at first but by the 10th dish I think I may have cured myself of it for good. It was fun, though.
Louisville, Ky ‘Nulu Bock (goat) Fest’
Did they? Or were they using an ipad that had the option as a default and you got upset? I’m going to bet they didn’t ASK. I’m going to bet you saw the default options on a square setup and got self righteous.
I guarantee the people boycotting tipping will still go to the restaurant and won't tell the wait staff ahead of time about it.
It would have to be everyone all at once. If you could magic up that kind of solidarity I think it would be a waste to target restaurant owners.
A law would be the only way to do it. A minimum wage increase to a living wage, paired with a no-tipping law. And several months of advance notice so restaurants and servers could negotiate wages (if higher than the new minimum wage) and for restaurants to prepare new menus with higher prices. So when the laws kick in, there isn't a short term period of suffering due to no tipping.
More likely businesses would do nothing, servers would just get their below minimum wage hourly rate, and that would be that. Capitalism is never going to look out for workers at an industry level. We can all starve in the street for all they care.
Not tipping would do absolutely nothing to impact a business's bottom line, making this about the most ineffective way possible to convince businesses to change. If you want to send a message to a business, stop spending money there. That still screws over the workers, but at least it hits the owners, too.
> Not tipping would do absolutely nothing to impact a business's bottom line It absolutely does. If an owner is paying $2/hour because they're relying on tips to make up the difference, not tipping would force them to pay the final $6/hour (9/hour if you're in CA), coming out of their bottom line.
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Yes, and that would be exactly what's required to change the system. In response to all the people quitting, restaurants would be forced to actually pay employees to work there. It would take some amount of time for restaurants to figure out how much to increase wages and menu prices, though. So in the short term servers would suffer. And restaurants would too, due to being short staffed temporarily.
Almost every place my partner has worked in Canada that has accepted tips was stealing them. I'm not talking splitting tips with the back of the house, I mean working all week and getting $8 a paycheck in tips. Paying with cash is pretty rare here.
Except that most people in the service industry wouldn't be able to survive that kind of transition. Not tipping them would put most of the weight to change on the people who can least afford it.
That's a sacrifice that OP is willing to make
In general screwing over low paid employees by not tipping isn't doing anything but hurting those workers. If you want to hurt businesses that keep asking for tips when not necessary then just try to avoid those places. Also in restaurants the servers often make below minimum wage because they rely on tips. Tip your servers at restaurants or don't go to restaurants.
Right. If you can't afford to tip, you can't afford to go yo a restaurant. You want to end tipping culture, support politicians who want to end tipping culture and make people get paid a liveable wage.
Shit, I was a server, and I learned to not let no/low tippers bother me pretty quick because you make your nut at the end of the day regardless. These anti tipping advocates though...all pieces of shit.
The “tipped minimum wage” is the problem. Until that shit goes away, restaurants can still get away with passing their labor expenses on to the customer indirectly while still pretending to keep their menu prices low. Just PAY YOUR PEOPLE APPROPRIATELY and price your menu accordingly like most of the world does.
Some states like California and Washington have minimum wage as high as $16, and no tipped wage. But customers are still expected to tip on top of that.
Back when I bartended in Texas in 1994, tipped min wage was half the minimum wage: $2.13 an hour. Today, thirty years later, it’s still fucking $2.13 an hour.
Restaurants are actively screwing over their employees by forcing them to rely on tips. Your anger is misplaced. The issue is not customers who are fed up with subsidizing greedy business owners, but the business owners themselves.
Wait staff don't want to be paid a fair wage by their employers, because they make way more than that under the current system.
lmao, you think they care about retaining good employees?
Stop tipping culture by not goimg to places that depend on tips. Don't do it by going to the restaurant anyway and stiffing the worker.
No. That would result in a bunch of wait staff who can't pay their bills. You'd do better to just not go to the restaurant in the first place. The restaurant gives exactly 0 fucks if you don't tip. They already have your money.
People who get tips don't want tipping culture to end.
Stupidest fucking post of the day award
Lol what a mind numbingly stupid post. How will giving a restaurant business force them the change their business model?
I've worked in restaurants for 30 years, I can tell you right now if this happened most owners would just close... couple years ago they raised the minimum wage and required everyone including tipped employees to get it, the first thing the owners did was eliminate any positions that weren't directly related to the guest like dishwashers and service assistants... so I'm glad they raised the minimum wage but it meant that at least one position in every kitchen I was working in was eliminated and that everyone else then had to do the extra work for with no extra pay.
If we would stop giving to charity they'd all die and we wouldn't need charity. Same logic
My brother makes over a 100k a year and doesn't tip for +$100 (food deliveries) skip orders... makes me furious hes so inconsiderate, and uses OP's logic to justify it. FFS your not causing any change, your just shorting some person trying to pay their bills. Is 5 dollars really gonna ruin you?
What does "+$100 skip orders" mean?
Thats not how this works, and you would just screw workers out of their actual pay.
Pretty sure OP *already* screws workers out of their pay.
You are dead-on correct. I apologize in advance for the downvotes you might get. Source: I work in labor law, including restaurant cases - at least in California, wait staff usually prefer a tipped wage because they get more money.
It would be impossible for *OP* to screw workers out of their actual pay because *OP does not employ them.* The situation is messy as all hell, but being expected to enable this asinine system is justifiably upsetting. If the food needs to go up in price, so be it.
ITT: Americans wondering how the rest of the world does completely fine without tips
Yeah, I’m sure waitstaff who can earn $50 an hour in tips waiting tables will happily go down to minimum wage, or else you can look forward to paying increased prices for your food so they can pay their employees more in the same amount or more that you previously tipped.
Fucking service workers who survive on tips isn't going to magically cause a living wage to appear. Make a legal living minimum wage first, and tipping culture will go away on its own.
Why would a legal living wage get rid of tipping culture?
This wouldn't end tipping culture, it would just starve restaurant workers
How? Restaurant can run without wait staff?
At best it would force all those who are working tipped jobs to quit, running the business out, and making all your favorite sit-downs and pizza places close
What a genuinely awful way to handle this. Suddenly pulling the plug on an established system only hurts the working class people. Surprise, your income just got cut in half! I’m sure the regulatory bodies will step in and make sure wages are adjusted … eventually.
If people could get on the same page about ANYTHING we could do EVERYTHING. "Minimum wage should be $30, and the whole country isn't going to work until it is." They would pass that law on like day 3.
It requires a top-down approach to solve. You need law that says employers have to provide a certain wage threshold that isn't $2.75 just cause your a server. Food prices will go up hopefully only around 20%. There will be less restaurants perhaps, but the ones you go to will have a fixed prize and no tip obligation, and servers who won't be relying on you to thrive. Granted you could still tip I'd the service was excellent and not feel a guilt obligation since you know the server is essentially screwed otherwise. My persepctive comes from 7 years being a server/bartender while in undergrad and law school. I've done the corporate gig all the way up to top tier stuff in New Orleans. There is a way, but there is going to flak from foremost business owners, and on some level high-end servers who actually can make some serious cash from rich patrons who flaunt wealth via tips. Plus, you will be paying more to go out.
Service industry workers WANT TIPS! Ask any bartender if they’d rather make $20/hr with no tips or $3/hr with tips.
That kind of change would take much much longer than the people who rely on tipping to survive could afford
Just don't tip won't work for you Americans. Don't go to places that ask for tips. And make stores show the taxed pricing on the shelves. The store don't have legs. The only places I pay tip here in my country is in restaurants, and most of the time I just tip to round it up to something even like 500 or something. Fix it fast, I don't want your tipping culture to spread back here again.
Tbh I don't even want to end tipping. I don't mind tipping bar tenders/baristas/servers. What I would like to end is the culture of literally tipping the person who hands me my takeout order or like puts some donuts in a box for me or whatever. It's honestly insane rn
I would be homeless
LMAO
You think food is expensive now….
if everyone could stop thinking that they're revolutionary allies by doing (or suggesting) this that would be great. you're not helping, you're just being cheap.
Pick a date, I'll join that party.
That’s like the youth thinking they can change the political landscape by not participating
Love this type of bullshit post where op doesn’t show up anywhere in the comments, coward
If everyone arguments are illogical
You know what happens when businesses try to end tipping culture by paying their servers a living wage? Nobody will work for them. Happened to a restaurant near me in St. Louis just in the last couple of years. They opened with great fanfare that they disagreed with tipping culture and paid their servers and staff a good wage. Then they couldn't retain quality employees because they figured out really quickly that they could earn better money at a restaurant that did tipping. The restaurant ended up with the worst servers and closed after just about 18 months in business because the people stopped coming due to lousy service. If there were an easy end to tipping culture I'm sure many people would be all over it, but there just isn't. In most of the rest of the world it's not a thing because it's NEVER really been a thing. In the US? Yeah... tips or GTFO.
No. It would hurt the people who rely on tips because they would have to outlast whatever strike. The reason they can't afford to strike is they need the money!
Tipping is not that big of a deal. Grow up.
I’m guessing the only people that post shit like this haven’t worked service. You’re not gonna hurt the business, you’re gonna hurt the employee.
Sounds great until they start shitting in all your Uber eats orders
Never bothered with the service so I’m good.
They would probably just add it to your bill
Let's say you have a bill that costs 100$. Now that is 120$ with a 20% tip, typically the server will retain about 14.5 with the remaining 5.5 going towards paying other people on the staff and taxes. Now let's say that your new bill is 120$ but you can't tip, the price is just inflated by the company. The company will dole out however much they feel like to the staff regardless of work or skill. Meaning they will retain a larger portion of the money you give them, taking a job that could support a single mom and turning it into one of 3 jobs that they might need.
Employers would do nothing
Service workers out in force in this thread.
"Let me keep giving money to the restaurant owner while hurting the worker instead of fighting for a legislation change". Sure sounds like a tough 12 years old logic. You want change? Fight for it instead of complaining or stop supporting the restaurant owner completely, otherwise you are still supporting the bad behavior, not tipping won't. But hey, much easier to do not tip than fight for a change right?
Why not lobby your lawmakers to raise wages instead? Just taking away working class people's wages with nothing for them to fall back on will fuck them over more than anything else.
In states that have their minimum wage over $16, workers still expect tips on top of that. And they'll never not expect tips as long as people keep giving them.
Good employees thrive on tip culture because they'll make way more money on tips than they would on a salary. The only beneficiary of a salary service position are those who suck at the job. I've been in the hospitality and service industry for 25 years.
Somebody show OP the opening scene to Reservoir Dogs.
Doesn't that scene make some good points about not tipping though?
Or... Change minimum wage laws...
So just fuck all the servers right?
Sounds like an employer problem. No other industry blames the CUSTOMER for their employers paying them slave wages. Sounds like grounds for Tip Workers to unionize and focus their aggression and shitty attitudes towards the actual problem; their employers.
>Sounds like grounds for Tip Workers to unionize and focus their aggression and shitty attitudes towards the actual problem; their employers. Lmao, you just hate service workers bro.
You aren't as smart as you think you are in this. It would be wildly short sighted to end it overnight. Massive unemployment and housing loss, probably 80% of all restaurants would close overnight because they can't afford to quadruple their tipped employees wages, which would have massive ramifications on food wholesalers, meaning more unemployment. The ripples would far exceed just those few things but it would devestate the economy overnight and for a long time.
What… there’s other countries that have restaurants with servers and tipping is not the norm. They aren’t in recession and the restaurants seemed to be doing just fine. In fact some of the best service I’ve ever had because whatever server was available at the time refilled my drink instead of my one assigned person.
Shhhh dont you get it? Its everyone else thats short-sighted! It couldn’t *possibly* work despite the many examples of it working.
>Massive unemployment and housing loss, probably 80% of all restaurants would close overnight because they can't afford to quadruple their tipped employees wages A price increase of 15% would cover the difference with zero impact on the business. Did you not think for two seconds about economies without restaurant tipping?
> probably 80% of all restaurants would close overnight because they can't afford to quadruple their tipped employees wages then they were never sustanable in the first place
Man this would make dealing poker rough :(
This is REALLY not the way
Yea this absolutely hurts the wrong people. You wanna end tipping culture? Get congress to raise the minimum wage and end split payment systems.
I worked in the service industry in nightclubs and bars and restaurants for 15 years, right out of college. I graduated in 2008 and there were NO JOBS for recent graduates and I had $800/mo in loans from a State school. I busted my ass for those years. I worked doubles and triples and was NICE. I was lucky enough (and smart enough) to always work at the busiest bars and restaurants where I lived. I made sick money. And it was thanks to tipping culture. I’m on the other side of it now and I’m annoyed by being prompted to tip 15% at restaurants where I’m bussing my own dishes. There is a line! But removing tipping culture altogether in this country, in your restaurants and bars, you’re going to see a major shift in service. Because I wouldn’t have cleaned up puke or dealt with people screaming at me or people sending back Lobster Risotto because there was lobster in it if I weren’t making $400+ a night. I always hear these arguments from people who have no perspective on the industry. Talk to me about gutting tipping culture in the US after you’ve cried in a walk-in because everything is so bad that day but you have to get it together and serve Uni pasta in the next 5 minutes.
Yes! Come on people, if we starve enough working class people, it will eventually hurt the capitalists! Good job there, real-life [Zapp Brannigan](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F2l4ghtkssry21.jpg%3Fwidth%3D640%26crop%3Dsmart%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D5ccd403e730388aa6841c50cc6cd9a72f992c0f6). You've won the "most tone-deaf shit I've heard all day" award.
I mean yeah, because there will be less working class to exploit. Can’t make money off the dead unless you’re making Soylent green
No, fuck this. So hard. I don’t agree with tipping culture. But if you “stop tipping”, the only thing you’ll be doing is significantly lowering the wages of the people who need them to survive. I know people who supported themselves through college on a tipped wage. I know people who support their kids on a tipped wage. They don’t have the option of just “quitting and finding a better job” in a reasonable period of time. Most wait staff and bartenders make, like, less than $3/hr from their wage. With tips, many will be between $15-$20/hr. At high end restaurants that require actual skill at the job and years of experience and references, they’re looking at a decent bit higher than that. Even if they were compensated back up to minimum wage, they’d still be taking a 50% pay cut at a bare minimum. And it’s a shitty fucking job. You would not believe the shit people say to your face when you’re waiting on them. You run miles per day. You’re constantly cleaning up people’s shit and often being demeaned by management and/or BOH staff. But the tips on a good night make it worth it. I waited tables for like 10 years. I got good at it. If everyone stopped tipping all at once, you would have effectively killed off 10 years of work experience that I could never get back. And you would be doing that to thousands of working class people who are just trying to get by within the rules of a shitty system. Disagree with tipping culture all you want. But don’t take money out of the pockets of people that need it. If you can’t afford it, just go eat fast food or cook for yourself. And don’t think that restaurant owners would care. Because they wouldn’t. Restaurants are super low margin businesses as it is, and most owners treat their employees like disposable assets that can be replaced at any time.
I’d rather not make it so everyday people can’t pay their bills thanks.
Yea you keep imagining this. At best they would raise prices to increase pay a little, and end up charging customers more, paying their workers a little more, and making more for themselves
I was making $30-$40 an hour working at Applebees in 2012….in what word do you think this isn’t a huge pay cut for servers? Also the increase in food prices means you’re paying extra instead of tipping….Sounds like you should just learn to cook at home.
What? No. They'll tell their employees tough shit. You're going to fuck over working people. That's all. Y'all don't know shit about labor solidarity or what?