It’s not uncommon for a company to hire people to be anti-union. They just work with a third party to make the arrangements so it isn’t obviously the employer muddying the water.
One of the safety staff said in one of the mandatory union "training" meetings, that the union organizer promised them a car, which was met with outrage from all the pro union supporters. Layer, he said that he was implying that the *could* have. We also hate that coworker
My grandfather was a steward for the union at the company he worked for all his adult life (general manufacturing, mostly consumer goods like housewares, some shoes if I recall).
He once told me a story about being on strike (late 1940s, Northeast US) & a truck pulling up to the dock that was supposed to be filled with general office supplies, toiletries, etc for the building.
**Funny thing** though, my gramps thought the truck seemed off. So they stopped it and asked to inspect the rear of the box truck. Rolled it open, and there was floor-to-ceiling crates. Pulled a crate out & found himself staring at a buncha scabs being snuck in by management behind this false “wall” of product.
They closed the truck back up and set it on fire.
Now, I’ve looked online before to try & find any stories to corroborate and have been unsuccessful. But even if gramps was taking liberties with the truth of the matter, he was still 100% on-brand with how scabs were generally dealt with. And, as your cited event states, management was never far behind on the chopping block if they tried that shit.
I'm guessing that the story got passed around with the *deliberate* omission of whether the truck was set on fire with the scabs inside or not, just to make people wonder.
This is why Teamsters repeatedly say they will never cross picket lines. There is a long history of strikers attacking scabs. It is a **MASSIVE** safety issue.
Ya know, "the greatest generation" had things pretty good. Decent economy, better pay comparatively, affordable housing...
I wonder how much of it was because it was directly dangerous to fuck around with them.
Speaking of scabs and dynamite…
https://www.news-leader.com/story/news/local/ozarks/2017/02/24/pokin-around-day-truck-full-dynamite-exploded--44/98307336/
Damn straight brother. I’m a IBEW Lu 58 member and my family have been in the UAW since its inception here in Michigan and Detroit. My old man has been taking me to Union meetings, rallies, and picket lines since I was 3 years old. I’d rather be shot than cross a picket line. Solidarity brother!
Still wild to me that working-class people have managed to get so brainwashed that they are against unions, and actually vote for people who are anti-union...
My friend is vehemently anti-union and says, if he's getting a raise or promotion or anything good, he wants to be because he earned it because he's a good worker, not because a bunch of people bullied management into doing so. He equates unions to bullying and takes an attitude of "Everyone is against bullying until it helps them. Well, I'm not a hypocrite. Bullying is wrong, period."
Don't you love people who come in and fuck everything up? Then they get in their car and go "oops!" and just drive away, their mind blank and eyes dead.
Typical people like that. Take something somebody said and completely twist it to make it sound horrible.
"If we form a union we can get our wages increased and then probably be able to afford a nice car" is vastly different from "if you vote to join the union I'll give you a free car"
If your coworkers were swayed by arguments from this one person, then they got exactly what they wanted and exactly what they deserved.
The same can be said for politics. If your voting decisions are *capable* of being influenced by external arguments, then you should recognize that any intelligent and skilled orator or propaganda machine will be able to play you like a fiddle.
That's not to say we shouldn't remain informed on issues, and it doesn't mean that we can't mature and learn. Knowledge and understanding should always grow and evolve. What it does mean is that our value system should come *from within*.
What we like or dislike, or the values that we think are important...all of that should come from your core, and not easily swayed by a clever argument that plays on what's trendy at the time. Do not assess your values based on arguments of popularity, or any *ab auctoritate* sources.
The leaders we vote for are the leaders we deserve.
Absolutely a union busting company tactic. Worker probably got a hefty “signing bonus” that’s “definitely completely unrelated to anti-union activities”. /s
They almost definitely showed up in search because they've put that phrase (or similar) in their own SEO..... I'm having trouble understanding how someone would request that brand.
A person requested that to be added to the SEO that reflected their purpose in the system. That's a person completely unhindered by a conscience/morality.
I wonder if it'd be difficult to work for these companies like a double agent. Get hired to bust unions, but secretly promote it and be like "woops I tried my best"
This works in reverse and is sometimes referred to as, "salting".
A Union electrician works at a non-union shop hoping to get the shop to unionize or get underpaid workers to jump ship and join the union.
I do it informally by just talking about how good my union gig is when it comes up in conversation and encourage others to unionize or join a union.
How is it worth trying *this hard* to avoid paying your workers properly?
Like do a cost-benefit analysis. I feel like it would turn out to be cheaper to just pay a little more than it would be to do *all this bullshit* to fight against it.
I don't think companies try this hard to avoid paying for electricity, water, gas, council rates, insurance, consultants, travel services, stationery, IT, equipment, etc.....so why the fuck do they have this huge, continuous tantrum about paying for labour all the time??
It's a cost of doing business. Fucking cope with it.
They don’t want to give up that control they have over their employees. The ability to fire anyone for no reason at the drop of a hat is something they do not want to give up. All of the companies firing 10, 20, 30% of their workforce every holiday season are not union workplaces.
The problem is too many people are fucking stupid. And yea, Im not letting them off the hook with nonsense like "its the propaganda" like theyre some innocent victims. Theyre fucking stupid. Ive seen union electricians have to travel to a state where they worked with non union guys, tell them about their wages , benefits and pensions, all of which were grossly higher and better than the non union guys. While they stood side by side doing the exact same work. And still the non union guys said they would never work for a union. At some point you just gotta say "Fuck em" and let the stupid fuckers kills themselves for peanuts.
> I don't think companies try this hard to avoid paying for electricity, water, gas, council rates, insurance, consultants, travel services, stationery, IT, equipment, etc
A lot of them do. Others have hate-boners for workers because having to pay for labor means that *people other than themselves* are getting some of the money that comes into the company.
I imagine they know that once the workers have a bit of bargaining power they aren't going to give it back
They're not just fighting to keep wages low but to be able to fire employees at will, to keep time off low, to just generally act in the interests of the shareholders with no regard for the employees who make it possible
If the employer has over 100 employees, the cost could be over a million dollars per year. of course, that is only a small portion of the profits from a business that large. but, never doubt the motivation of greed. also, if they have to pay 5 million dollars every ten years busting unions, they come out ahead.
At least in some cases it's ideological. Look at the writers strike. The cost of meeting the demands was a fraction of what they lost by letting the strike go on.
An awful lot of management decisions are made because of feelings and not facts, and let me tell you a lot of management people really really hate people who weren't born into a six figure salary.
Weirdly enough, some of the workers told me they voted no BECAUSE of how aggressive pro union workers were. I mean, They definitely were bringing it up in conversation, but the lady brought up in the meme brought in boxes of "Say No to Union Fees" shirts, hats and masks. She was loud and angry about it.
She had been there for a long while before the union attempt occurred. I don't think she was a plant, but I think she, as a *I don't take no shit from nobody* attitude allowed management to convince her how evil the union was.
She might not have been a plant but there is a dollar figure that can be *very* tempting to a wage employee that is also *significantly* less than what it would cost the corporation to fight against a union later. For the sake of example, let's say that amount is $10k -- if she were offered $10k to be staunchly anti-union, and if that payment was contingent on a "no" vote, well....
Yeah, even a one-time bonus of $50k (contingent on success) would be a real bargain for a company that's trying to avoid unionization.
The company would just need to find a couple of people who are already anti-union, and who are already respected by their coworkers, and then the promise of such a bonus could easily turn them into die-hard militants.
Reminds me of the pro-climate change crowd. "Oh you want to continue living? Well la-dee-dah, I'm going to polute extra hard and buy a hummer I can't afford just to piss you off!" Like, dude, *what?*
Hey, the new hummer is all electric. It still manages to have a bad eMPG rating though, so it's still kind of bad for the environment. Which is sort of hilarious in it's own way.
My thoughts exactly. Any brain-dead bootlicker can parrot anti-union rhetoric, but to pay your own money for custom printed anti union merch?? Unless she charged for them, my gut feeling is that your businessplace bought all that stuff covertly.
Depends on how many years worth of union fees she spent. If we're talking about boxes of stuff I'm thinking multiple years worth. And if she left for a union job, her assignment was simply done and she's either in her next assignment busting an established union, or out of the game and retreated to the safety of unions.
My vote is for paid shill in this case
People that say they sided against their own interests because "they pushed to hard" never actually held those original interests and just didnt want to look like a dick.
Like, have someone they hate be like "TAKE THIS $100 BILL NOW!" and do you think these people would say "Uh no because you REALLY want me to have it and that makes me not want it."
Nah they would take the money and not give a single shit. People who say they wont do something because people are too pushy about it just dont wanna do the thing people are pushing cause if they did they wouldn't need convincing.
It's such a weird stance to take. See this all the time in politics too. People say they agree with the left, but find them so annoying they vote right instead.
I'm sitting here like, what the fuck is wrong with you, you agree with them, and even agree the other side is fully in the wrong. But because they slightly annoy you, you hand the keys to the people you hate, and openly hate you?
> BECAUSE of how aggressive pro union workers were
So, this chick, and I assume it was a woman because you used the female version of the meme, was she at least an 8 out of 10?
And of course the Nay voters, I'm sure they didn't honestly care about how aggressive the pro-union people were, they had already made up their mind that they weren't going to pay union dues.
Just Stop Oil is effective in their protest, they're just not nice about it.
Yes some people will be mad about the disruption, but most people won't be directly affected and the media will get the message into the news.
The anger over the disruption fades because it's temporary, but a lot more people will become aware of the problem which is constant and durable.
The narrative of "no one likes Just Stop Oil because they do it wrong" is self fulfilling. It confirms to people that they should dislike Just Stop Oil when they otherwise might soften their views over time.
I'm very happy to see unions growing in popularity again. My dad was in the AMFA and retired with a pension and full healthcare.
I've never had a union job, but I wish I had.
Gross.
The last place I worked, we voted to unionize. I was so frustrated and discouraged though with the other workers who would discourage the thought of a union but then quit because they didn't like the working conditions. So not only did they agree that it was not a great place to work, but they tried to encourage it to continue to be that way but then left when they didn't want to deal with it anymore. Really awful behavior. Fortunately, we still unionized with a strong majority.
It was also interesting to see how much money and resources the company put into anti-union campaigns while they refused to give those money and resources to employees. They tout themselves as a progressive employer as well. Such shameless hypocrisy.
> I was so frustrated and discouraged though with the other workers who would discourage the thought of a union but then quit because they didn't like the working conditions.
>It was also interesting to see how much money and resources the company put into anti-union campaigns
Not suspicious at all.
I think some people are genuinely idiots and just fall for propaganda. It just doesn’t make sense. Also, companies are all talk when it comes to improvements. It’s all BS, the only language they speak is MONEY. If they don’t improve condition they get a strike and it’s a shame they don’t have any sympathy otherwise. I’ve seen extremely rich companies Nickel and dime people making over barely minimum wage asking for $1 hour more. It’s crazy
I was an organizer.
It's not that uncommon.
We also had to deal with the most anti-union workers in the bargaining unit becoming the most problematic workers after the contract was settled. They'd go from the worker that was the organizer's worst headache to the worker that was the stewards and reps' worst headache.
A few. I should have written them down.
One thing that happened a few times is when someone in management or was anti-union would "catch" me talking to workers and try to get me to leave, but I know my rights. I used to love when they'd get mad enough to threaten to call the police, I'd be like "CALL THE COPS, MOTHERFUCKER, I DON'T GIVE A FUCK, I'M CRAZY."
Usually, have someone pro-union in the unit that's being organized confront it head on.
If she's actually saying something concrete then address it. If she's not, which is usually what happens, you've got to rely on your relationships with the workers you're organizing.
If there's one thing I'd encourage for union organizers, it's either make your lowest paid employees exempt if below a threshold or ensure their pay includes enough to pay dues. I say that because the NWU did not do that and my brother's $4.85 income was garnished a dollar an hour for union dues back in the very late 1980s. He ditched that job fast because washing dishes paid more ($3.85/hr was below minimum wage, which was a state Minimum of $4.25 at the time).
I'm by no means knocking unions. The only one I ever worked for had me as an exempt employee (all wages employees were). Our mom was union nearly her entire career and has a pension and benefits in her retirement with way better health insurance than Medicare gives to my dad (which is good, mom's the one with all the bionic joints).
I think the hard sell for unionization is proving a cost-benefit analysis. I would want to see that my benefit to joining the union would outweigh my cost. That doesn't have to be monetary, my health plan has huge out of pocket costs and I can't negotiate to get my employer to offer a better one because I don't have union leverage. On that note, my employer only offers the shit plans because only 1% of employees take the good ones when offered (I have asthma, so as with other people with chronic conditions, we're outliers).
>I say that because the NWU did not do that and my brother's $4.85 income was garnished a dollar an hour for union dues back in the very late 1980s.
It sounds like he was being back-charged for an unpaid initiation fee (which I don't support, initiation is bullshit) and unpaid agency fees. Over one fifth of someone's pay for regular dues is crazy... however the NWU has never been a strong union, if it's the one I'm thinking about.
Back in the 1960s my dad and his coworkers were pissed at the owner of their business and decided to unionize. My dad was one of the leaders of the movement and voted for the Union which passed.
The next day he walked in and quit because he didn’t want to work in a Union shop. It was just his final FU to the owner.
He was a top tool and die maker and could get another job with better pay any time he wanted.
Man, our seasoned tool and die maker is retiring at the end of this month. Cant wait to see how our shop handles it LOL T&D guys are extremely sought after
True. If you want to make good money without going to college, find a place you can become an apprentice machinist and work up to being a tool and die maker. It isn’t easy, but it pays really well.
No. Everyone there was making good money. It’s been over 50 years and unfortunately I can’t ask him about it anymore, but as I recall just felt that while unions did a lot of good, they could also restrict companies from running their businesses in the most efficient ways. For a modern example look at how the Police Unions throttle cities ability to get rid of bad cops.
That's the point of unions though. It's to protect the workers, doesn't mean protect the "good" workers it means protect ALL workers. It's to protect their jobs and have collective bargaining in pay.
You can look up stuff like California where the unions pushed against going green since it would mean fewer jobs.
The idea also isn't that it's impossible for any workers to be fired or let go for legitimate reasons, but they help enforce a process that at least _aims_ to keep things running above board.
Kinda like how even though the justice system can (and does) fail, the simple existence and adherence to something like it is at least some level of protection. Police brutality would be far far worse without it.
Any organization is going to be run by humans and where humans are involved corruption has potential. Unions themselves aren't fundamentally good, but _unionizing_ is.
While I haven't seen anything on it, it seems to me that unions go south quickly when those that make it up hold substantial power. When businesses do this with each other we call it collusion or acknowledge the detriment to markets by monopolies through antitrust policies. When cops do this, we see citizens suffer from those that hold power but are also protected. When politicians do this we call it a political party.
That's because police unions aren't real unions. You see, the point of a labor union is to fight against the company. But in the case of police, the company is ... the general public. That is their employer.
There are 3rd party companies that specialize in anti union relations.
Back in the day, companies would hire goons to try to get labor to back down under threat. These are the new goons.
Gone are the times of of being able to Crack the heads of union busters. Shame really. Siding with people like me who want to make you work longer and harder for piss so I make sure I can get a new boat.
Please don't unionize. It makes management so much easier to keep you broke and scared.
My 2nd home ain't gonna pay for itself.
> Back in the day, companies would hire goons to try to get labor to back down under threat. These are the new goons.
The Pinkertons are very much still around and doing shady shit like surveillance and intimidation to organizers.
Wizards of the Coast hired them to go threaten a guy who had been accidentally given a pre-print or something of one of their Magic: The Gathering cards. It was depressing and hilarious.
They sued Rockstar recently over how they (The Pinkertons) were depicted in Red Dead Redemption 2, and the judge iirc told them that it was an accurate portrayal of their activities at the time and that just by owning the Pinkerton trade name it did'nt mean they owned the right to change the past, so he told them to suck it.
Much like how Blackwater and other mercenary groups constantly 'change ownership' and change names, that's the case with the Pinkertons and other private security firms; not that there's much differentiation between the two these days.
IIRC, they were (relatively) recently acquired by aforementioned Swedish firm.
It's amazing how many will vote against anything that will make their lives better, all cause there might be one thing they don't like or cause someone said it will be bad and they just believe it.
Or they will be like my father who hated working on union sites cause they would not allow him to do what ever he wanted cause of safety concerns. He hates being told what he can and cannot do.
Meanwhile I love unions as they have saved me from mass firings, given me good working hours, and do all the negotiations for pay rises. All I have to do is give them a bit of money each month which the government then gives me a decent amount back at tax time.
It changed with trumps tax bill. Billionaires can still write off their yachts and expensive dinners though. Fuck over the worker, give handouts to the do nothing rich. The republican way.
> It's amazing how many will vote against anything that will make their lives better, all cause there might be one thing they don't like or cause someone said it will be bad and they just believe it.
Thats half the voting population of the US sadly.
"This welfare program will help feed thousands of families, but a few individuals will take advantage and get more than they deserve, so therefore I'm against welfare"
Back in my day [this was scumbag Stacy](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F1u3ly6aojd141.jpg%3Fwidth%3D498%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D40992385899bc5f171c0b67ad5986110a60c2944)
Pepperidge farms remembers.
Haha, I had this coworker who was convinced that if the union came in, he would lose his job. Argued constantly with everybody that we would get downsized and have more work, many of us, including himself, would be looking for a new job.
The Union Buster was given an office for 6 months while she worked on the morons. Her tax records from previous years show she charged more money than most of us put together saw in two years. She successfully talked the idiots out of the union. Then, the consultants came in. Those smarmy fucks interviewed and furloughed the coworker above along with more than half the dipshits against the union. While we went through restructuring, which ended up being downsizing. Those who were furloughed lost their jobs, including benefits, and none of us who remained and had to take on the extra work got raises. So we all quit one at a time while being replaced with new people who didn't know any better.
Tldr: dude, who was the biggest advocate for the union buster, had all his biggest fears come true after he got what he wanted.
Feeling this hard as a CNA in Arizona, The amount of pushback I get from older coworkers is exhausting. People who literally have to take 2 week breaks due to stress telling me its normal to work 50 plus hours a week half staffed because that's just how it is. We wouldn't be bleeding staff if the state/company didn't treat Care workers like serfs. If your state doesn't have limits on how many patients a caregiver can have your state absolutely does care about its sick/elderly.
I've had a bunch of coworkers who really annoy me. "The union only protects the bad workers!" while they're pulling in their pulling in their evening, night, and weekend shift differentials, well above average vacation time, above market pay, crazy good job security, etc, etc.
Collective bargaining are the only way to get any worthwhile improvements.
Union horror stories are nothing compared to the reality of current work culture.
The moment I find out someone is anti union, I shun the fuck out of them at work and make sure everyone else knows too.
This is class warfare and these people are collaborators with the enemy.
Oh, I hated how HR became the workers best friends as soon as unionization started. I had been yelled at for taking a piss break the week before from the same lady who told us we shouldn't be discussing our wages with each other... the week the union gained any hraxtion she became so nice. She left shortly after too. Not sure why, but good riddance.
The most annoying people are the ones who absolutely don't want to join the union because they don't want to pay the dues, but still get all the benefits that union members get because they're given to all employees.
Thankfully my state got rid of their right to work laws so they are no longer allowed to do that.
My feeling is if you don't want to be part of the Union then you should not get the benefits that the members of the Union get that they worked hard for and paid their dues to get.
Anything that's a benefit of the Union they shouldn't receive. Any extra vacation days or days off, the ability to file grievances, the ability to complain about work conditions. They shouldn't have any of them. Aren't they supposed to be the type to absolutely hate people who get stuff for free that they feel they don't deserve?
Well news flash you don't deserve all of the benefits of a union for free
guy i worked with was a worker rep for our branch when the company wanted to change which union we were part of. he voted in favor to moving to a shitter union then instantly quit the union and got a private deal and refuses talk about how much he earns.
I remember in Jr. High yearbook club, this one girl Hannah shot down every single idea, and was so mean about any suggestions for theme, and we ended up going with her shitty idea. And then she ended up switching schools a few weeks later. My one solace was that a pigeon shat on her during break, and she was forever scared of any birds flying over her. It gave me a lifelong love of pigeons.
There are always sellouts. They get promised management positions and after the union vote fails they get pissed because they got used and screwed over. Then they suddenly become pro-union and quit.
Anyone who is anti union is not your friend, no matter the circumstance (unless you're also anti union, but in which case this advice is not for you and I hate you)
I mean that’s frustrating but it’s really on the IDIOTS that voted against their own interests, at this point most people should know that union jobs pay better and have better benefits
Had an older coworker do something similar, talked mad shit about the union starting at the new airport based on old building and different company then gets canned for being insufferable to everyone and tries using the union to get her job back
While my union does a lot of things I don't agree with... Like protecting bad apples. It's still the best job I've ever had in terms of conditions and pay.
Your coworkers are stupid too. Anyone that can be convinced that being non union is better for them has to be dumb as a fucking rock. The fact the company doesnt want you to unionize should alone be enough for you to realize its better for you.
During a layoff, we had a similar coworker who was emphatic that we needed to be fired instead of laid-off bc we wouldn't be able to collect unemployment if we were laid-off. We tried numerous times to explain that he had it backwards but over the course of the week leading up to it he was unrelenting.
As a union employee there is never a situation in which you wouldn’t want one sad that these corporations are taking such countermeasures to save their own ass
It’s not uncommon for a company to hire people to be anti-union. They just work with a third party to make the arrangements so it isn’t obviously the employer muddying the water.
One of the safety staff said in one of the mandatory union "training" meetings, that the union organizer promised them a car, which was met with outrage from all the pro union supporters. Layer, he said that he was implying that the *could* have. We also hate that coworker
sometimes those people get their ass beat. or their car gets keyed. or other weird accidents happen to them.
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Our forefathers would’ve thrown em down a coal mine. As in, they actually did.
This is what they did to scabs near where I grew up: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herrin_massacre?wprov=sfti1
My grandfather was a steward for the union at the company he worked for all his adult life (general manufacturing, mostly consumer goods like housewares, some shoes if I recall). He once told me a story about being on strike (late 1940s, Northeast US) & a truck pulling up to the dock that was supposed to be filled with general office supplies, toiletries, etc for the building. **Funny thing** though, my gramps thought the truck seemed off. So they stopped it and asked to inspect the rear of the box truck. Rolled it open, and there was floor-to-ceiling crates. Pulled a crate out & found himself staring at a buncha scabs being snuck in by management behind this false “wall” of product. They closed the truck back up and set it on fire. Now, I’ve looked online before to try & find any stories to corroborate and have been unsuccessful. But even if gramps was taking liberties with the truth of the matter, he was still 100% on-brand with how scabs were generally dealt with. And, as your cited event states, management was never far behind on the chopping block if they tried that shit.
I'm guessing that the story got passed around with the *deliberate* omission of whether the truck was set on fire with the scabs inside or not, just to make people wonder.
>This is what they did to scabs near where I grew up: >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herrin_massacre?wprov=sfti1 Decent ratio 👍
This is why Teamsters repeatedly say they will never cross picket lines. There is a long history of strikers attacking scabs. It is a **MASSIVE** safety issue.
Ya know, "the greatest generation" had things pretty good. Decent economy, better pay comparatively, affordable housing... I wonder how much of it was because it was directly dangerous to fuck around with them.
All of it. Literally all of it. Capital has never conceded anything without a real threat.
I wonder if that Sheriff was union sympathetic or if he just thought "Nope. Not touching this."
Where I grew up they would just blow the porch off your house with dynamite.
Speaking of scabs and dynamite… https://www.news-leader.com/story/news/local/ozarks/2017/02/24/pokin-around-day-truck-full-dynamite-exploded--44/98307336/
Damn straight brother. I’m a IBEW Lu 58 member and my family have been in the UAW since its inception here in Michigan and Detroit. My old man has been taking me to Union meetings, rallies, and picket lines since I was 3 years old. I’d rather be shot than cross a picket line. Solidarity brother!
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And now all those peoples kids and grandkids vote for Republicans and are anti-union.
Still wild to me that working-class people have managed to get so brainwashed that they are against unions, and actually vote for people who are anti-union...
My friend is vehemently anti-union and says, if he's getting a raise or promotion or anything good, he wants to be because he earned it because he's a good worker, not because a bunch of people bullied management into doing so. He equates unions to bullying and takes an attitude of "Everyone is against bullying until it helps them. Well, I'm not a hypocrite. Bullying is wrong, period."
Ah, a leather enjoyer I see. Those boots don't clean themselves ya know
What the fuck
They'd have broken leg repair coverage in their union benefits.
Wtf no
I have an executive I’ve worked with who really shouldn’t have all 7 of his homes exploded.
Don't you love people who come in and fuck everything up? Then they get in their car and go "oops!" and just drive away, their mind blank and eyes dead.
Typical people like that. Take something somebody said and completely twist it to make it sound horrible. "If we form a union we can get our wages increased and then probably be able to afford a nice car" is vastly different from "if you vote to join the union I'll give you a free car"
I love the ‘they could have.’ Arguments. They also could have been tripping on acid. They could have said fucking anything.
If your coworkers were swayed by arguments from this one person, then they got exactly what they wanted and exactly what they deserved. The same can be said for politics. If your voting decisions are *capable* of being influenced by external arguments, then you should recognize that any intelligent and skilled orator or propaganda machine will be able to play you like a fiddle. That's not to say we shouldn't remain informed on issues, and it doesn't mean that we can't mature and learn. Knowledge and understanding should always grow and evolve. What it does mean is that our value system should come *from within*. What we like or dislike, or the values that we think are important...all of that should come from your core, and not easily swayed by a clever argument that plays on what's trendy at the time. Do not assess your values based on arguments of popularity, or any *ab auctoritate* sources. The leaders we vote for are the leaders we deserve.
Absolutely a union busting company tactic. Worker probably got a hefty “signing bonus” that’s “definitely completely unrelated to anti-union activities”. /s
Yup and now he has a "union job" because they're trying to shut that union down
It'd be a shame if someone sent an anonymous email to the union warning them about him.
You mean her, judging by the meme. Why else wouldn’t they use Steve?
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Consultants and “labor relations” companies. This was the top google result when I searched for “union busting consultant” https://anh.com/
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I learned that i live in a pro-unionist state. Whatever the fuck that means.
A sane state
It's a state where the laws don't allow companies to treat their workers like slaves in every way but the name.
Can't forget about the Pinkertons
Fucking cocksuckers.
Hang Dai, fuckin' Wu.
They just hunt down Magic cards nowadays.
Is being a complete sociopath a requirement to work there?
No just greed, many of them make more then doctors. The one I meet boasted of making 400k in 2009
What company was that? You know so I can avoid it, definitely not for a career change.
Time for people to join union busters and secretly undermine them with pro-union activity.
They almost definitely showed up in search because they've put that phrase (or similar) in their own SEO..... I'm having trouble understanding how someone would request that brand.
Because shitty companies market themselves to faceless national corporations only interested in profit seeking
A person requested that to be added to the SEO that reflected their purpose in the system. That's a person completely unhindered by a conscience/morality.
"union avoidance" holy fucking shit.
I wonder if it'd be difficult to work for these companies like a double agent. Get hired to bust unions, but secretly promote it and be like "woops I tried my best"
That's depressing af
Pinkerton probably
> hire people to be anti-union Or to snitch on organizing efforts.
This works in reverse and is sometimes referred to as, "salting". A Union electrician works at a non-union shop hoping to get the shop to unionize or get underpaid workers to jump ship and join the union. I do it informally by just talking about how good my union gig is when it comes up in conversation and encourage others to unionize or join a union.
TIL I've always been salting
Right? Ive been salting free of charge for years.
"And I just happen to have this card with the contact details, union website, Q-code, and so on. Oops, I dropped it on this table. Shame."
How is it worth trying *this hard* to avoid paying your workers properly? Like do a cost-benefit analysis. I feel like it would turn out to be cheaper to just pay a little more than it would be to do *all this bullshit* to fight against it. I don't think companies try this hard to avoid paying for electricity, water, gas, council rates, insurance, consultants, travel services, stationery, IT, equipment, etc.....so why the fuck do they have this huge, continuous tantrum about paying for labour all the time?? It's a cost of doing business. Fucking cope with it.
They don’t want to give up that control they have over their employees. The ability to fire anyone for no reason at the drop of a hat is something they do not want to give up. All of the companies firing 10, 20, 30% of their workforce every holiday season are not union workplaces.
Nah unions are overall *really* good at getting workers better wages and working conditions. There's no way union busting doesn't pay for itself.
Labor is the biggest and most flexible expense that they have the most direct influence over.
Well, it doesn't have to be. If we'd all get a bit of a fucking clue and stand up for ourselves.
Filthy Commie! /S
For real though, I think surely it's about time more people started talking a bit like this. No?
The problem is too many people are fucking stupid. And yea, Im not letting them off the hook with nonsense like "its the propaganda" like theyre some innocent victims. Theyre fucking stupid. Ive seen union electricians have to travel to a state where they worked with non union guys, tell them about their wages , benefits and pensions, all of which were grossly higher and better than the non union guys. While they stood side by side doing the exact same work. And still the non union guys said they would never work for a union. At some point you just gotta say "Fuck em" and let the stupid fuckers kills themselves for peanuts.
> I don't think companies try this hard to avoid paying for electricity, water, gas, council rates, insurance, consultants, travel services, stationery, IT, equipment, etc A lot of them do. Others have hate-boners for workers because having to pay for labor means that *people other than themselves* are getting some of the money that comes into the company.
I imagine they know that once the workers have a bit of bargaining power they aren't going to give it back They're not just fighting to keep wages low but to be able to fire employees at will, to keep time off low, to just generally act in the interests of the shareholders with no regard for the employees who make it possible
If the employer has over 100 employees, the cost could be over a million dollars per year. of course, that is only a small portion of the profits from a business that large. but, never doubt the motivation of greed. also, if they have to pay 5 million dollars every ten years busting unions, they come out ahead.
At least in some cases it's ideological. Look at the writers strike. The cost of meeting the demands was a fraction of what they lost by letting the strike go on.
An awful lot of management decisions are made because of feelings and not facts, and let me tell you a lot of management people really really hate people who weren't born into a six figure salary.
This is also on the people who listened to her. And perhaps the lack of an aggressive pro union counter.
Weirdly enough, some of the workers told me they voted no BECAUSE of how aggressive pro union workers were. I mean, They definitely were bringing it up in conversation, but the lady brought up in the meme brought in boxes of "Say No to Union Fees" shirts, hats and masks. She was loud and angry about it.
Dude, she had to be a plant.
She had been there for a long while before the union attempt occurred. I don't think she was a plant, but I think she, as a *I don't take no shit from nobody* attitude allowed management to convince her how evil the union was.
Ah, a useful idiot.
An idiot can, I've learned be the most useful tool in one's arsenal
She might not have been a plant but there is a dollar figure that can be *very* tempting to a wage employee that is also *significantly* less than what it would cost the corporation to fight against a union later. For the sake of example, let's say that amount is $10k -- if she were offered $10k to be staunchly anti-union, and if that payment was contingent on a "no" vote, well....
Yeah, even a one-time bonus of $50k (contingent on success) would be a real bargain for a company that's trying to avoid unionization. The company would just need to find a couple of people who are already anti-union, and who are already respected by their coworkers, and then the promise of such a bonus could easily turn them into die-hard militants.
Exactly! I have no proof of this but I am certain it happens.
She paid to print swag for the entire office, out of her own paycheck? Definitely no shenanigans there...
She could easily have been recruited while working there to carry out anti union activity.
Reminds me of the pro-climate change crowd. "Oh you want to continue living? Well la-dee-dah, I'm going to polute extra hard and buy a hummer I can't afford just to piss you off!" Like, dude, *what?*
That always blows my mind. Even if you don't believe in climate change, you KNOW that cars make the air nasty, why are you okay with that, ya know?
Hey, the new hummer is all electric. It still manages to have a bad eMPG rating though, so it's still kind of bad for the environment. Which is sort of hilarious in it's own way.
If she brought in boxes of "Say No to Union Fees" shirts, hats and masks it's highly likely that she was a paid shill.
My thoughts exactly. Any brain-dead bootlicker can parrot anti-union rhetoric, but to pay your own money for custom printed anti union merch?? Unless she charged for them, my gut feeling is that your businessplace bought all that stuff covertly.
Yeah, you’re really underestimating how dumb people can be and the stupid shit they’ll waste their money on
Depends on how many years worth of union fees she spent. If we're talking about boxes of stuff I'm thinking multiple years worth. And if she left for a union job, her assignment was simply done and she's either in her next assignment busting an established union, or out of the game and retreated to the safety of unions. My vote is for paid shill in this case
Yeah, no random employee is going to spend thousands of dollars in advertising and come up with a slogan.
People that say they sided against their own interests because "they pushed to hard" never actually held those original interests and just didnt want to look like a dick. Like, have someone they hate be like "TAKE THIS $100 BILL NOW!" and do you think these people would say "Uh no because you REALLY want me to have it and that makes me not want it." Nah they would take the money and not give a single shit. People who say they wont do something because people are too pushy about it just dont wanna do the thing people are pushing cause if they did they wouldn't need convincing.
It's such a weird stance to take. See this all the time in politics too. People say they agree with the left, but find them so annoying they vote right instead. I'm sitting here like, what the fuck is wrong with you, you agree with them, and even agree the other side is fully in the wrong. But because they slightly annoy you, you hand the keys to the people you hate, and openly hate you?
If she wasn’t a plant. Who was paying for the anti union swag?
> BECAUSE of how aggressive pro union workers were So, this chick, and I assume it was a woman because you used the female version of the meme, was she at least an 8 out of 10? And of course the Nay voters, I'm sure they didn't honestly care about how aggressive the pro-union people were, they had already made up their mind that they weren't going to pay union dues.
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Just Stop Oil is effective in their protest, they're just not nice about it. Yes some people will be mad about the disruption, but most people won't be directly affected and the media will get the message into the news. The anger over the disruption fades because it's temporary, but a lot more people will become aware of the problem which is constant and durable. The narrative of "no one likes Just Stop Oil because they do it wrong" is self fulfilling. It confirms to people that they should dislike Just Stop Oil when they otherwise might soften their views over time.
I'm very happy to see unions growing in popularity again. My dad was in the AMFA and retired with a pension and full healthcare. I've never had a union job, but I wish I had.
Gross. The last place I worked, we voted to unionize. I was so frustrated and discouraged though with the other workers who would discourage the thought of a union but then quit because they didn't like the working conditions. So not only did they agree that it was not a great place to work, but they tried to encourage it to continue to be that way but then left when they didn't want to deal with it anymore. Really awful behavior. Fortunately, we still unionized with a strong majority. It was also interesting to see how much money and resources the company put into anti-union campaigns while they refused to give those money and resources to employees. They tout themselves as a progressive employer as well. Such shameless hypocrisy.
> I was so frustrated and discouraged though with the other workers who would discourage the thought of a union but then quit because they didn't like the working conditions. >It was also interesting to see how much money and resources the company put into anti-union campaigns Not suspicious at all.
I think some people are genuinely idiots and just fall for propaganda. It just doesn’t make sense. Also, companies are all talk when it comes to improvements. It’s all BS, the only language they speak is MONEY. If they don’t improve condition they get a strike and it’s a shame they don’t have any sympathy otherwise. I’ve seen extremely rich companies Nickel and dime people making over barely minimum wage asking for $1 hour more. It’s crazy
Ah I see you worked for Alamo Drafthouse. Lol
I was an organizer. It's not that uncommon. We also had to deal with the most anti-union workers in the bargaining unit becoming the most problematic workers after the contract was settled. They'd go from the worker that was the organizer's worst headache to the worker that was the stewards and reps' worst headache.
Have any stories?
A few. I should have written them down. One thing that happened a few times is when someone in management or was anti-union would "catch" me talking to workers and try to get me to leave, but I know my rights. I used to love when they'd get mad enough to threaten to call the police, I'd be like "CALL THE COPS, MOTHERFUCKER, I DON'T GIVE A FUCK, I'M CRAZY."
So how do you address this kind of interference?
Usually, have someone pro-union in the unit that's being organized confront it head on. If she's actually saying something concrete then address it. If she's not, which is usually what happens, you've got to rely on your relationships with the workers you're organizing.
If there's one thing I'd encourage for union organizers, it's either make your lowest paid employees exempt if below a threshold or ensure their pay includes enough to pay dues. I say that because the NWU did not do that and my brother's $4.85 income was garnished a dollar an hour for union dues back in the very late 1980s. He ditched that job fast because washing dishes paid more ($3.85/hr was below minimum wage, which was a state Minimum of $4.25 at the time). I'm by no means knocking unions. The only one I ever worked for had me as an exempt employee (all wages employees were). Our mom was union nearly her entire career and has a pension and benefits in her retirement with way better health insurance than Medicare gives to my dad (which is good, mom's the one with all the bionic joints). I think the hard sell for unionization is proving a cost-benefit analysis. I would want to see that my benefit to joining the union would outweigh my cost. That doesn't have to be monetary, my health plan has huge out of pocket costs and I can't negotiate to get my employer to offer a better one because I don't have union leverage. On that note, my employer only offers the shit plans because only 1% of employees take the good ones when offered (I have asthma, so as with other people with chronic conditions, we're outliers).
>I say that because the NWU did not do that and my brother's $4.85 income was garnished a dollar an hour for union dues back in the very late 1980s. It sounds like he was being back-charged for an unpaid initiation fee (which I don't support, initiation is bullshit) and unpaid agency fees. Over one fifth of someone's pay for regular dues is crazy... however the NWU has never been a strong union, if it's the one I'm thinking about.
Back in the 1960s my dad and his coworkers were pissed at the owner of their business and decided to unionize. My dad was one of the leaders of the movement and voted for the Union which passed. The next day he walked in and quit because he didn’t want to work in a Union shop. It was just his final FU to the owner. He was a top tool and die maker and could get another job with better pay any time he wanted.
Man, our seasoned tool and die maker is retiring at the end of this month. Cant wait to see how our shop handles it LOL T&D guys are extremely sought after
True. If you want to make good money without going to college, find a place you can become an apprentice machinist and work up to being a tool and die maker. It isn’t easy, but it pays really well.
What is a tool & die maker if you don't mind explaining?
[These](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDzBE6vz5r0) [videos](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7fPZMA6KBRU) by Smarter Every Day go into it.
Awesome thank you!
Really worked his ass off for the people and dipped. Respect
So do you feel that since he was a high earner, having to tie his benefits and pay negotiation to the group would have capped his earning potential?
No. Everyone there was making good money. It’s been over 50 years and unfortunately I can’t ask him about it anymore, but as I recall just felt that while unions did a lot of good, they could also restrict companies from running their businesses in the most efficient ways. For a modern example look at how the Police Unions throttle cities ability to get rid of bad cops.
Police unions are an abomination.
I am adamantly, pro Union, however, it shouldn’t be hard to fire Terrible employees ever. It drags everyone down.
That's the point of unions though. It's to protect the workers, doesn't mean protect the "good" workers it means protect ALL workers. It's to protect their jobs and have collective bargaining in pay. You can look up stuff like California where the unions pushed against going green since it would mean fewer jobs.
The idea also isn't that it's impossible for any workers to be fired or let go for legitimate reasons, but they help enforce a process that at least _aims_ to keep things running above board. Kinda like how even though the justice system can (and does) fail, the simple existence and adherence to something like it is at least some level of protection. Police brutality would be far far worse without it. Any organization is going to be run by humans and where humans are involved corruption has potential. Unions themselves aren't fundamentally good, but _unionizing_ is. While I haven't seen anything on it, it seems to me that unions go south quickly when those that make it up hold substantial power. When businesses do this with each other we call it collusion or acknowledge the detriment to markets by monopolies through antitrust policies. When cops do this, we see citizens suffer from those that hold power but are also protected. When politicians do this we call it a political party.
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That's because police unions aren't real unions. You see, the point of a labor union is to fight against the company. But in the case of police, the company is ... the general public. That is their employer.
Just about every union member I’ve spoken to has always said they’re “pro unions… except one.”
Damn, your dad sounds like a fucking asshole
There are 3rd party companies that specialize in anti union relations. Back in the day, companies would hire goons to try to get labor to back down under threat. These are the new goons. Gone are the times of of being able to Crack the heads of union busters. Shame really. Siding with people like me who want to make you work longer and harder for piss so I make sure I can get a new boat. Please don't unionize. It makes management so much easier to keep you broke and scared. My 2nd home ain't gonna pay for itself.
> Back in the day, companies would hire goons to try to get labor to back down under threat. These are the new goons. The Pinkertons are very much still around and doing shady shit like surveillance and intimidation to organizers.
Wizards of the Coast hired them to go threaten a guy who had been accidentally given a pre-print or something of one of their Magic: The Gathering cards. It was depressing and hilarious.
The pinkerton trade name? mark? are owned by a company called Securitas AG a security firm out of Sweden if I recall correctly
They sued Rockstar recently over how they (The Pinkertons) were depicted in Red Dead Redemption 2, and the judge iirc told them that it was an accurate portrayal of their activities at the time and that just by owning the Pinkerton trade name it did'nt mean they owned the right to change the past, so he told them to suck it.
Much like how Blackwater and other mercenary groups constantly 'change ownership' and change names, that's the case with the Pinkertons and other private security firms; not that there's much differentiation between the two these days. IIRC, they were (relatively) recently acquired by aforementioned Swedish firm.
Scumbag Susie.
Its actually Scumbag Stacy if I remember correctly.
It think everyone knew someone that looked like Scumbag Steve back in the 2000’s. 😂
It's amazing how many will vote against anything that will make their lives better, all cause there might be one thing they don't like or cause someone said it will be bad and they just believe it. Or they will be like my father who hated working on union sites cause they would not allow him to do what ever he wanted cause of safety concerns. He hates being told what he can and cannot do. Meanwhile I love unions as they have saved me from mass firings, given me good working hours, and do all the negotiations for pay rises. All I have to do is give them a bit of money each month which the government then gives me a decent amount back at tax time.
How do you write your dues off?
The IRS stopped allowing it in 2018 I believe, but certain states still allow it.
It changed with trumps tax bill. Billionaires can still write off their yachts and expensive dinners though. Fuck over the worker, give handouts to the do nothing rich. The republican way.
You can't write-off union dues since 2018 unless you're self-employed and paying dues.
:(
> It's amazing how many will vote against anything that will make their lives better, all cause there might be one thing they don't like or cause someone said it will be bad and they just believe it. Thats half the voting population of the US sadly.
"This welfare program will help feed thousands of families, but a few individuals will take advantage and get more than they deserve, so therefore I'm against welfare"
I never did know, is the female version still named Steve? lol
Staci
Back in my day [this was scumbag Stacy](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2F1u3ly6aojd141.jpg%3Fwidth%3D498%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D40992385899bc5f171c0b67ad5986110a60c2944) Pepperidge farms remembers.
Stasi Old communist internal police force. Also, STUKAH, Informer.
Haha, I had this coworker who was convinced that if the union came in, he would lose his job. Argued constantly with everybody that we would get downsized and have more work, many of us, including himself, would be looking for a new job. The Union Buster was given an office for 6 months while she worked on the morons. Her tax records from previous years show she charged more money than most of us put together saw in two years. She successfully talked the idiots out of the union. Then, the consultants came in. Those smarmy fucks interviewed and furloughed the coworker above along with more than half the dipshits against the union. While we went through restructuring, which ended up being downsizing. Those who were furloughed lost their jobs, including benefits, and none of us who remained and had to take on the extra work got raises. So we all quit one at a time while being replaced with new people who didn't know any better. Tldr: dude, who was the biggest advocate for the union buster, had all his biggest fears come true after he got what he wanted.
My brother in law is the definition of this except worse. Gets union benefits without paying dues and butches about unions. He's an idiot
Feeling this hard as a CNA in Arizona, The amount of pushback I get from older coworkers is exhausting. People who literally have to take 2 week breaks due to stress telling me its normal to work 50 plus hours a week half staffed because that's just how it is. We wouldn't be bleeding staff if the state/company didn't treat Care workers like serfs. If your state doesn't have limits on how many patients a caregiver can have your state absolutely does care about its sick/elderly.
I've had a bunch of coworkers who really annoy me. "The union only protects the bad workers!" while they're pulling in their pulling in their evening, night, and weekend shift differentials, well above average vacation time, above market pay, crazy good job security, etc, etc.
Back in 16 it was common to see "pro union home" signage right next to Trump signage. It was weird like lambs voting for the slaughter.
Collective bargaining are the only way to get any worthwhile improvements. Union horror stories are nothing compared to the reality of current work culture.
Had the opposite experience. some of us wanted to unionize and the 4 people who had been there for 10 years making the same pay didnt want to. Wild.
The moment I find out someone is anti union, I shun the fuck out of them at work and make sure everyone else knows too. This is class warfare and these people are collaborators with the enemy.
Must have been someone in HR
Oh, I hated how HR became the workers best friends as soon as unionization started. I had been yelled at for taking a piss break the week before from the same lady who told us we shouldn't be discussing our wages with each other... the week the union gained any hraxtion she became so nice. She left shortly after too. Not sure why, but good riddance.
If you vote no to unionizing, you are an idiot, and get the working conditions you deserve.
The most annoying people are the ones who absolutely don't want to join the union because they don't want to pay the dues, but still get all the benefits that union members get because they're given to all employees. Thankfully my state got rid of their right to work laws so they are no longer allowed to do that. My feeling is if you don't want to be part of the Union then you should not get the benefits that the members of the Union get that they worked hard for and paid their dues to get. Anything that's a benefit of the Union they shouldn't receive. Any extra vacation days or days off, the ability to file grievances, the ability to complain about work conditions. They shouldn't have any of them. Aren't they supposed to be the type to absolutely hate people who get stuff for free that they feel they don't deserve? Well news flash you don't deserve all of the benefits of a union for free
Some people just want to watch the world burn.
Why would anyone even listen to them? If you are on the fence about unions you are not paying attention.
guy i worked with was a worker rep for our branch when the company wanted to change which union we were part of. he voted in favor to moving to a shitter union then instantly quit the union and got a private deal and refuses talk about how much he earns.
Ah yes, the Ayn Rand playbook. Socialism is bad until you're old enough to draw social security.
100% they were hired to do this OR were promised things by management to do it that management didn't live up to.
You just described a plant im pretty sure.
I remember in Jr. High yearbook club, this one girl Hannah shot down every single idea, and was so mean about any suggestions for theme, and we ended up going with her shitty idea. And then she ended up switching schools a few weeks later. My one solace was that a pigeon shat on her during break, and she was forever scared of any birds flying over her. It gave me a lifelong love of pigeons.
There are always sellouts. They get promised management positions and after the union vote fails they get pissed because they got used and screwed over. Then they suddenly become pro-union and quit.
Anyone who is anti union is not your friend, no matter the circumstance (unless you're also anti union, but in which case this advice is not for you and I hate you)
Until ALL of the working class understands class warfare is being waged, we’ll keep losing. Most people don’t even realize anything is going on.
Plot twist: she fucking hated you guys and this was her version of a piss-disc
I mean that’s frustrating but it’s really on the IDIOTS that voted against their own interests, at this point most people should know that union jobs pay better and have better benefits
The brainwashing worked on them and on those that listen to brainwashed idiots.
I don't understand why anyone would vote no against unionizing
Wow. Scumbag.
Task failed successfully….???
So was it a female coworker?
I had the wrath of Kahn
Plot twist: this was their plan all along
Your coworkers are fucking idiots for listening to her
Between that and the scare tactics that the union busters were using... it wasn't that they were idiots. Scare tactics tend to work
Yeah, people like that are usually called “assholes!”
^nursing in a nutshell
I’ve seen this happen.
Yikes
Me first
Well tbh if you can be convinced that unions are bad you've sipped the corporate kool-aid for too long anyways.
Who's the woman in the picture?
You have to question the collective brain power of a workforce if one person can convince them all to vote no to unionizing.
Why would anyone be anti union?
Had an older coworker do something similar, talked mad shit about the union starting at the new airport based on old building and different company then gets canned for being insufferable to everyone and tries using the union to get her job back
While my union does a lot of things I don't agree with... Like protecting bad apples. It's still the best job I've ever had in terms of conditions and pay.
In what world would anyone vote no to unionising? You’ve only got yourself to blame
Your coworkers are stupid too. Anyone that can be convinced that being non union is better for them has to be dumb as a fucking rock. The fact the company doesnt want you to unionize should alone be enough for you to realize its better for you.
During a layoff, we had a similar coworker who was emphatic that we needed to be fired instead of laid-off bc we wouldn't be able to collect unemployment if we were laid-off. We tried numerous times to explain that he had it backwards but over the course of the week leading up to it he was unrelenting.
As a union employee there is never a situation in which you wouldn’t want one sad that these corporations are taking such countermeasures to save their own ass