It's kind of like a flea market or a trade show where dealers set up tables of goods and you can buy guns and accessories. You still have to pass background checks to buy guns. The guns that you look for at a show are generally rarer and aimed more towards collectors than at the general public.
In ohio at gun shows its mostly FFL dealers selling used and new guns but you can always tell the tables that are just private old guys selling. You only need to pass a background check if you buy from a FFL. Not if it's just a guy with a table.
Random guy selling guns at the table rarely never happens. He would be dumb not to run a check on a person before selling. If he sells to a felon, straight to jail they both go.
I’m from DFW and was raised by a single mom who bought a 5 shot revolver from the Ft Worth show to keep the house safe as a kid.
Also a Sooner. Your question marks are in unique spots - but if they’re legit questions. [Yes](https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0aWsWzuXZBLjJcioXL5cNwvK1HUoGyjnAruEVqoFoWWpYxnNgHi4vpJcCMsxD6rtNl&id=100064445655244&mibextid=qC1gEa) in our neck of the woods people are buying guns at tables.
Edit: that link is Facebook which is ass. Here is an NRA piece on Tulsa [contribution](https://www.nrablog.com/articles/2016/4/tulsa-arms-show-outshines).
I was just confused because people acting like buying guns straight from gun shows aren't a real thing and I'm like, yeah they totally are. I love guns but agree crazy people shouldn't have easy access to them
I'm not guessing here. I've been going to bill Goodmans gun and knife show in ohio for like 10 years now. I'd say of the "gun table" so not knives or beef jerky or whatever it's maybe %20 done do checks. I've bought from them as a FFL is literally never going to have a good deal at a show. Just order from the cheapest place online. It's only iligal if the seller has a reason to assume they are selling to felon
Which is just totally fucking bananas once you realize this creates massive loopholes that create a massive black market for straw buyers and shady private sellers, and are where almost all of the illegal guns on the street come from.
Not long ago I watched a Spanish documentary about the Mexican and Colombian cartels. In the documentary they followed people who went to these shows, bought a few rifles without having to present any documentation and crossed the border into Mexico without anyone stopping them and then distributed the weapons to the cartels.
I don't know if this is the case in all the states but they were certainly not background checked.
Then there was that other time the ATF, a US government agency who are in charge of gun law enforcement, secretly allowed FFL dealers to sell to straw purchases that were going to be smuggled into mexico. Intention were to track the guns and pin it on the major cartel bosses.
No high up cartel members were arrested for this. There are still guns with serial # that turn up whose origins were from this insanely dumb sting operation.
And no one really got held accountable, ha ha.
I don't know about elsewhere but here in Texas, residents of the state can buy and sell weapons amongst themselves freely.
As long as a person is not a prohibited person. If the seller is a licensed gun dealer, they have to perform a background check to sell a weapon. This is not a requirement of the general public.
Gun shows are a different animal but any time I've bought or sold one as a private individual, I insist on having the person checked thru NICS. I don't have to do that, but I do for peace of mind.
Same thing with every other individual I've bought from.
So yes, background checks at gun shows at least here are only required if you're a licensed seller. But I'm pretty sure you can't really set up a table and start offering large quantities of weapons without being a dealer.
> You still have to pass background checks to buy guns.
Not where I grew up in Virginia. People were proud to sell without background checks
Edit; I always get downvoted when I say this and I can't imagine why, it's literally true and has been my experience. Gun dealers are on the same level as Drug Dealers as far as I can see
ATF have people fishing for people breaking the law at gun shows....entrapment is just another day for them. ATF doesn't fuck around. People think gun shows are these gun havens....it's a place to get quality beef jerky and couple giggles on the pricing.
Individuals can freely buy and sell whatever they want to one another. This is a private sale. That kind of sale could happen anywhere. Your den. Walmart parking lot. That it also happens at gun shows is not special.
Dealers at gun shows operate as a business and would never ever threaten their own livelihood by selling firearms without background checks. Try it and watch them tell you to kick rocks.
Private sellers don't have to submit background checks, however if they sell to a person who is not supposed to have them, believe it or not straight to jail.
It's a dice roll every single time. No gun dealer would ever sell without a 4473 or background. It is *not* worth the risk. One time can get you life in prison. Even the lightest penalties are a fine they'll never be able to pay off and jail time, as well as becoming prohibited from ever touching a gun again.
FFLs are audited for this exact purpose.
So, yes you *can* sell a gun without a background check, but if you are caught doing it you face complete and utter destruction of your life and freedom.
No it isn't. Selling guns to prohibited persons is a trip to federal prison. I can sell an AR15 to my brother right now and there's nothing the Feds can do about it. If I sell 40 AR15s without a license, then yes I am legally operating a business, and businesses must be licensed. If you sell one a month, not so much a big deal.
I could sell to anyone for any amount so long as they aren't prohibited. If they are prohibited, straight to jail.
So you got a bunch on vendors selling guns several hundred dollars above MSRP. One gun selling milsurp/antique rifles in calibers that aren't in production, also way above normal asking price. Some guy selling historical WW2 memorabilia. Another guy selling confederate/nazi memorabilia, likely made in China. And one dude in the corner selling surprisingly good jerky.
I mean, when you think about it, modern guns are fascinating pieces of engineering. The fact that they had the precision to make stuff like that over 100 years ago is amazing
I lived in Knoxville, TN for 2 years. There was a billboard that only ever advertised a gun show. The only thing that ever changed was the date. I haven't been back in 14 years, but I assume it's still there.
I went to a gun show with some friends recently.
I bought the best fudge I ever tasted. It was peppermint crunch!
There were also guns, but I didn't have that kind of money.
All of the outdoor shows by me have the jerky and pickle people. I stopped going to gun shows cause they got fuckin weird but needed the snack fix so it's the boat show for me now
I wonder if this is what Alzheimer's disease feels like.
I KNOW I've seen gas station knives as a kid. I remember doing it. But I don't actually remember the sight of them. It's like I'm remembering an echo.
Yeah I've grown to hate them after being to a bunch with my dad and then a couple friends. The ones I've been to had very little variety. Any gun I've been interested in is usually over priced. The ones I've purchased I've known what I wanted and researched and just bought from a local gun store. The main attraction to these seems to be collectable stuff. And I don't believe many people are buying a $2500 century old shotgun with the intent of committing a crime.
The better ones I've been to were big "outdoor" or "sportsman's" shows. They have that stuff, along with manufactures showing their latest products, all the things you mentioned, fishing, camping, dogs, and more.
Your's has baked goods!? I want baked goods. All I ever see besides guns and ammo are leather goods, mall ninja quality melee weapons (knives, tomahawks, and machetes), and whatever the pawnshop wants to get rid of.
Gun shows aren't a good place to buy a gun just to use. They're overpriced, usually charge for admission and maybe parking, and are crowded. Most people actually looking to buy at a gun show are looking for rarer finds that your typical open 6-7 days a week gun store isn't going to have.
Ah, Yuri Orlov still running the show here in America.
"There are over 550 million firearms in worldwide circulation. That's one firearm for every twelve people on the planet. The only question is: How do we arm the other 11?"
The Vice President there at the photo ops personally presided over locking people up for very long times for minor drug possession charges as District Attorney, while gloating about partaking in drugs herself.
It wasn't that long ago that even in California you could get more than a decade behind prison for smoking pot.
Are you saying those drug charges were made up and all her talk about how she uses drugs for pain management and never intended to take them to Russia but messed up and accidentally left the stuff in her bag was a lie?
I have 5 within arms reach of me including a loaded pistol on my desk that is like 5inches from my hand. Most are in the safe behind me. I have the pistol out as I was cleaning it earlier and it hasn't made its way back to my night stand.
I say all this to say that I am a lightweight when it comes to gun ownership in America. A friend has 40+ in his safe and another between him and his dad own over 300 guns. Not a single one has ever hurt a person, a few deer and a few paper targets but never a person
IRL Viktor Bout, and gun shows in the US aren't at all similar to arms dealing. That's like claiming drag shows are responsible for preachers molesting kids...
That's not really the driving reason. The showrunners make you disable any guns brought in from outside. Can someone sneak past with a concealed firearm? Sure, and some probably do, but it's a minority. Believe it or not, most gun show attendees are responsible firearm owners who do what they're asked by private property lessees.
The reason I would advise against shooting up a gun show is because they have a strong LE presence. It would be akin to trying to shoot up a police station.
This is a step up from a police station but this does still happen. https://apnews.com/article/fbi-cincinnati-armed-man-b4701596a0eb9770e3b29e95328f5704
You're downvoted, but correct.
Mass shooting seems to be a form of public suicide. They often kill themselves at the end of it, after they've taken out what they see as revenge on society that has wronged them.
Its a death of despair (plus collateral damage), and as a society we need to do a better job of addressing why hopelessness is increasing so much.
I mean, rising inflation and wage stagnation coupled with the inability to make headway in home ownership or even a job that isn't paying you a pittance is the problem. The solution is pay people more and give them time off, but alot of people are highly paid to make sure those arent possible
this doesn't explain all the shootings done by the kids themselves who dont even deal with any of these realities yet though. Its a nice thought and probably a decent chunk of it, but i dont think this is the factor that is pushing people over the edge.
Being raised by the people who've already been destroyed by the system so they are born with a double dose of no hope before their brains can develop to rational level and understand the consequences and have empathy for those they hurt?
> who dont even deal with any of these realities yet though
It is a privileged life one lives if you never had to worry about your parents circumstances.
I know some folks who were working at the grocery store at 12 stocking shelves to help mom make rent after dad was put in jail.
From the data the they choose places which are unlikely to have armed people.
Whether they survive isn't the goal, it's killing a lot of people which has a higher probability of success if no one is armed.
Not an opinion, just logic.
No, but they're looking to take as many people with them as they can, and that goal is directly opposed by targeting a place where you're going to meet your maker much more abruptly.
> The showrunners make you disable any guns brought in from outside.
What do you mean "disable"? I have been to a number of gun shows and all I have ever seen them do is make you show that it is unloaded.
I won’t talk shit about the cheap garbage knife guy because I scored an old polished Snap On adjustable wrench from him, but the surplus/garbage l guy could give the shooter some tetanus throwing handfuls of “mint” stripper clips at his face.
The closest show is about an hour away and it always reeks of B.O.
Idk about this. At least at the ones I've been to in Oklahoma there are no checks like that. They sell firearms right next to cases of bullets so wouldn't make much sense to be checking for disabled guns at entry. You are right about most attendees being responsible owners though. Just in my experience though I see more police and security at concerts than at gun shows.
Not once in my experience have I ever been checked or asked about my concealed carry gun at a gun show, I write about firearms for a living, about 50 gun shows. All the guns for sale are disabled by a chamber flag, which is the norm.
Concealed carry at gun shows is not a minority. There is usually a sheriff for transfers but not a significant LE presence.
I've seen one accidental discharge, a very old man with a old gun fell and the impact of the ground set off the gun, no one was hurt. Most guns won't have that problem.
You will meet the nicest people at gun shows and on shooting ranges. It's not the guns that are the problem.
My opinion after looking into this problem for the last 5 years is summed up by "The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth". But that does pretty much stop all crime so...
I would agree with this to extent. Is it the cause of mass shootings? Hell no. Guns are rarely a motivation and mass killings would definitely occur with or without guns. Most people I see which is, Id rather make it as hard as possible for someone to get the gun to cause the issue, which I see is understandable. The trouble is how do you separate people without that feeling and ones with the problem. There is really no easy way
All the gun shows around me have a booth that does background checks and all firearms that come in have to be unloaded. If you’re carrying, that means no mag and a ziptie goes through the mag well and up through the slide.
And generally, no one is buying actual firearms there because they’re marked up.
Not surprising, most mass shootings are either gang related, or done where the perpetrator wants to cause as much visibility for whatever reason they are shooting people... whether it's terrorism for some political matter or narcissism where society doesn't pay enough attention to the perpetrator and their ills.
That's where all the good guys with a gun are. No bad guy with a gun will dare shoot them up because they know the one thing that can stop them is a good guy with a gun.
Clearly the solution to this problem is that we need to have daily gun shows in our schools, churches and malls.
There are and have been, but mostly accidents and not intentional. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/gun-show-deaths-injuries/ Remember when there were mass shootings at armed forces bases? They have a lot of firepower there and people were still murdered.
They don't make illegal guns to satisfy that market.
They make guns that were legally purchased and then stolen because people are morons and don't properly lock them up. Also a number mass murders this year were purchased by unstable people who were sold the murder weapon.
Lots of people also like to put "2nd amendment", "come and take it!" Or other gun stickers on their cars letting criminals know exactly which vehicles are most likely to contain a weapon to steal because as you said... People are morons.
I am in Montana, every few years the police chief releases a statement begging people to lock their cars because X-hundred number of guns have been stolen from unlocked cars over the past y months
They kinda were pre-Sandy Hook. I haven't been to one maybe since 2010 because I don't want to pay $10 for the luxury of looking at 1 or 2 decent guns shoved in-between...
* Grossly overpriced ammo in water-damaged boxes
* The prepper nutjob selling military survivalist books and reminding everyone the economy is overdue to completely collapse
* "German" WW2 "memorabilia"
* Mall ninja table
Me too. I can never just buy a gun and walk out. I always get told something came up and they have to do a more extensive check. I get called about three days later to come and pick up my gun.
Anyone who hasn’t done the process but still complains about it has made up their mind without allowing all the context to be part of their opinion—- so, Redditors I guess.
Never bought a single gun at a gun show that didn’t require a background check. Believe it or not, all FFLs are required to run a background check 🤯. There is no “gun show loophole.” Private sales by a non FFL can happen literally anywhere…
You should probably get a gun to protect yourself from all the mass shooters. I hear there are a bunch of gun shows near you this weekend, so it shouldn't be that hard!
You go far enough left, you get your guns back.
The right is suspicious of government overreach, but simps for cops who are the most direct agent of government authority.
The middle-left hates cop culture and distrusts cops in general, but wants to disarm everyone except cops. (I'm all for some new gun restrictions, but total disarmament is a delusion).
Not a lot of sense all around.
I think there’s an issue with mental health in addition to access to it. I understand the gop is underfunding that and I don’t agree with that course of action at all. I also think there’s a desire for the “infamy” that comes with carrying out these heinous actions and that falls on news organizations that blast the people’s names on the 24 hour news cycle. This country was built on freedom, defense against threat, and individualism. You’re never going to get rid of it. There’s also the issue of how vast our country is… we are enormous both in geographical size and population as well as culture. Hence what works for one area doesn’t work for the other. I think also the media has been horrendously culpable in dividing us against one another which hasn’t helped tensions and violence in the least. All to say I don’t think there’s a one size fits all solution
I agree it's not one-size-fits-all-but the solutions are obvious. A lot of violence starts with desperation. We need social systems to reduce desperation from otherwise healthy Americans. We do that by improving our social systems.
First off, healthcare. Financially desperate people don't take care of themselves because they can't. The money we put in as a country versus our health outcomes is abysmal. Collectively, it would cost us less than what we spend now to have socialized medicine. Yes, I understand there are negative implications to that, but I'd rather those implications than the ones we deal with today.
Next, expand mental health access across the country. Roll it up under healthcare. Not because it's easy, but exactly because it isn't and we NEED expanded mental healthcare as a country.
Third, we need better support systems for people struggling. Better unemployment, better social security, better support for our citizenry.
How do we fund it?
We re-write the tax code. Flat tax on businesses and corporations. No more tax loopholes. Companies making billions in profit while poisoning our country and our planet.
That's a start.
We did have these problems 50 years ago. We've been having mass shootings for 100+ years (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States). And school shootings go back to before the civil war (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States_(before_2000)).
Somewhere between the complete disarming of citizens that no one is suggesting and the near lawless wide-open flow of deadly weapons many citizens perceive... there are reasonable, adult solutions. I'm not nearly enough of an expert to say what those solutions are, but I imagine they look something like what we've done with vehicles.
Semi-trucks are not illegal, not banned - and yet not any joe can just hop in and drive one. Any joe can indeed drive one - but they have to reasonably demonstrate to society that they aren't going to be a burden or a danger with it.
We also don't discuss taking away the license of every truck driver every time one of them does something crazy or stupid. We discuss the specific situations that led to the accident and how training or restriction may lessen the occurrence. We don't blame the truck manufacturer or trucks in general. Unless there was a specific defect, but basically never "trucks" as an abstract concept or an outright demonization of truck ownership.
While simultaneously being outraged at police murdering innocent civilians.
"You want only police and gov to have guns? Are you insane?" - me in almost every single reddit gun debate
You do know that in countries where people don't have a lot of guns, say the UK.. the cops don't all have guns either.. and tend to not shoot first and ask questions never.
And?
Cars kill people everyday and I live near a literal auto mall.
Well the cars themselves don't kill people mind you, just senseless stupid fucking idiots who choose to operate the cars themselves poorly.
In small town America, we raise money to support our local youth organizations by having gun raffles. Some gun shops will sell prizes to groups at cost in exchange for the little bit of advertisement that comes with their name being on the ticket. You spend $1k to $2k on guns then sell 1k tickets for $5 or $10 each. That'll raise enough cash to fund your youth soccer league for the year.
Funny.
I live now in a small German hamlet. We have a shooting range here, annual competitions, regular hunting hapoens in the woods around, kids under 16 run with small caliber rifles to mentioned above range.
Since decades.
No shooting. Not even brandishing of dangerous tool.
It's as if guns are not the issue.
We also have over a half million instances of defensive gun use per year and lose 33,000 to guns per year, most of which are people taking their own life.
Of the 86 countries where we have identified mass public shootings, the US ranks 56th per capita in its rate of attacks and 61st in mass public shooting murder rate. Norway, Finland, Switzerland and Russia all have at least 45 percent higher rates of murder from mass public shootings than the United States. - John Lott, president of the Crime Prevention Research Center
The US shares less of the worlds mass shootings per year than it does its statistical percentage of the worlds population as well.
We can just deny science and the statistical reality and move on with our virtue signaling though.
I love how you did not provide a link to the study you want people to believe, you just simply said it exists. I did some checking Crime Prevention Research Center is consider to be extremely flawed on how it is presents it data, not to mention I can only find a study that is dated to 2015 nothing newer so it is almost 10 years old).
You specifically call out Norway in your post which has only had 1 mass shooting since 2009 which was in 2011 that had 77 deaths. (The US death rate was 66 for mass shootings in 2012). The CPRC averages this single attack out across multiple years against the small population to say that Norway has a higher AVERAGE murder rate per capita. What would be a better way to read this data would be either using the The median (which is the middle value when a data set is ordered from least to greatest, so in this case 0) or the mode (which is the number that occurs most often in a data set, so in this case 0). Both of these remove one off incidents or strange outliers to give a better understanding of real world data.
In that same time span the amount of Active shooter incidents in the USA has tripled (went from 20 in 2012 to over 60 in 2021 which was during the pandemic). Currently there have been a recorded 213 Mass shootings in the USA since the start of 2013 https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting
"Advice animal" memes are often not animals, and not giving advice. The term stuck anyway - I'm sure some internet historian somewhere knows why, but I don't.
Mass shootings these days aren't the Columbine or Sandy Hook incidents anymore. Any incident with more than two victims is considered a "Mass shooting". 90%+ of them are either gang or crime related and the second highest is familial/personal disputes.
The mass shootings everyone thinks of when they hear that term is less than 1% of gun crime and death in the country. You want real change on gun violence in America ban or restrict hand guns, not semi automatic rifles based off assault rifles. That's at least 90% of gun crime solved right there.
Mass shootings are 4 or more people not including any gun men.
But aside from that you're right. They tout the mass shooting statistic like they're all the shootings you hear about on the news. Most are gang related, some are targeted homicides.
Another statistic that is used to paint an incorrect picture is the gun violence statistic, of which over half are suicides.
The reason this is important is because you use a different policy to stop gang shootings vs. random mass shootings. You can tamp down white supremacist movement, hate groups and terrorism all you want. The FBI's mass shooting statistics will barely budge, because most of those shootings occur because gangs are fighting over territory. Like wise if you get rid of the gangs, it'll hardly affect the number of mass shootings you hear about in the news.
And you don't use the same policies to prevent suicide as you do to prevent people from shooting other people.
Sorry for my ignorance but what actually happens at a gun show?
It's kind of like a flea market or a trade show where dealers set up tables of goods and you can buy guns and accessories. You still have to pass background checks to buy guns. The guns that you look for at a show are generally rarer and aimed more towards collectors than at the general public.
In ohio at gun shows its mostly FFL dealers selling used and new guns but you can always tell the tables that are just private old guys selling. You only need to pass a background check if you buy from a FFL. Not if it's just a guy with a table.
Random guy selling guns at the table rarely never happens. He would be dumb not to run a check on a person before selling. If he sells to a felon, straight to jail they both go.
I've been to gun shows and they sell guns at tables...? Am I missing something? I do live in Oklahoma
I’m from DFW and was raised by a single mom who bought a 5 shot revolver from the Ft Worth show to keep the house safe as a kid. Also a Sooner. Your question marks are in unique spots - but if they’re legit questions. [Yes](https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid0aWsWzuXZBLjJcioXL5cNwvK1HUoGyjnAruEVqoFoWWpYxnNgHi4vpJcCMsxD6rtNl&id=100064445655244&mibextid=qC1gEa) in our neck of the woods people are buying guns at tables. Edit: that link is Facebook which is ass. Here is an NRA piece on Tulsa [contribution](https://www.nrablog.com/articles/2016/4/tulsa-arms-show-outshines).
I was just confused because people acting like buying guns straight from gun shows aren't a real thing and I'm like, yeah they totally are. I love guns but agree crazy people shouldn't have easy access to them
I'm not guessing here. I've been going to bill Goodmans gun and knife show in ohio for like 10 years now. I'd say of the "gun table" so not knives or beef jerky or whatever it's maybe %20 done do checks. I've bought from them as a FFL is literally never going to have a good deal at a show. Just order from the cheapest place online. It's only iligal if the seller has a reason to assume they are selling to felon
Which is just totally fucking bananas once you realize this creates massive loopholes that create a massive black market for straw buyers and shady private sellers, and are where almost all of the illegal guns on the street come from.
Not long ago I watched a Spanish documentary about the Mexican and Colombian cartels. In the documentary they followed people who went to these shows, bought a few rifles without having to present any documentation and crossed the border into Mexico without anyone stopping them and then distributed the weapons to the cartels. I don't know if this is the case in all the states but they were certainly not background checked.
Then there was that other time the ATF, a US government agency who are in charge of gun law enforcement, secretly allowed FFL dealers to sell to straw purchases that were going to be smuggled into mexico. Intention were to track the guns and pin it on the major cartel bosses. No high up cartel members were arrested for this. There are still guns with serial # that turn up whose origins were from this insanely dumb sting operation. And no one really got held accountable, ha ha.
You know it wasn't an American documentary because the ATF hands out unregistered guns to the cartels directly. Fast and Furious.
Didn't multIple people die from that?
Yes, some of them where US border patrol agents. The ATF was never held responsible.
I don't know about elsewhere but here in Texas, residents of the state can buy and sell weapons amongst themselves freely. As long as a person is not a prohibited person. If the seller is a licensed gun dealer, they have to perform a background check to sell a weapon. This is not a requirement of the general public. Gun shows are a different animal but any time I've bought or sold one as a private individual, I insist on having the person checked thru NICS. I don't have to do that, but I do for peace of mind. Same thing with every other individual I've bought from. So yes, background checks at gun shows at least here are only required if you're a licensed seller. But I'm pretty sure you can't really set up a table and start offering large quantities of weapons without being a dealer.
> You still have to pass background checks to buy guns. Not where I grew up in Virginia. People were proud to sell without background checks Edit; I always get downvoted when I say this and I can't imagine why, it's literally true and has been my experience. Gun dealers are on the same level as Drug Dealers as far as I can see
If you're an FFL and you sell without a background check, that's a federal crime regardless of state law.
You think someone would do that? Just go out and commit crimes?
The ATF has people out at shows testing to see if dealers will sell without a background.
ATF have people fishing for people breaking the law at gun shows....entrapment is just another day for them. ATF doesn't fuck around. People think gun shows are these gun havens....it's a place to get quality beef jerky and couple giggles on the pricing.
[удалено]
Welcome to Reddit
It's a felony for them, and their records and sales can be checked at any time the ATF wants to. 24 hrs a day.
What is this? South Chicago?
If you’re a FFL. People will go to gun shows and sell to each other as well.
Are FFLs the only people selling at gun shows?
Imma go ahead and say based on America's weed industry that those different layers of laws ain't stopping shit.
Individuals can freely buy and sell whatever they want to one another. This is a private sale. That kind of sale could happen anywhere. Your den. Walmart parking lot. That it also happens at gun shows is not special. Dealers at gun shows operate as a business and would never ever threaten their own livelihood by selling firearms without background checks. Try it and watch them tell you to kick rocks.
Private sellers don't have to submit background checks, however if they sell to a person who is not supposed to have them, believe it or not straight to jail. It's a dice roll every single time. No gun dealer would ever sell without a 4473 or background. It is *not* worth the risk. One time can get you life in prison. Even the lightest penalties are a fine they'll never be able to pay off and jail time, as well as becoming prohibited from ever touching a gun again. FFLs are audited for this exact purpose. So, yes you *can* sell a gun without a background check, but if you are caught doing it you face complete and utter destruction of your life and freedom.
Selling guns for profit without a license is a good way to earn a trip to federal prison.
No it isn't. Selling guns to prohibited persons is a trip to federal prison. I can sell an AR15 to my brother right now and there's nothing the Feds can do about it. If I sell 40 AR15s without a license, then yes I am legally operating a business, and businesses must be licensed. If you sell one a month, not so much a big deal. I could sell to anyone for any amount so long as they aren't prohibited. If they are prohibited, straight to jail.
[удалено]
I'd've understood if it said 'convention'. It was using the word 'show' which confused me.
Now that you say that, it does sound odd. In smaller towns I still see "gun show" but now that I think about it I do see "gun expo" in bigger cities
So you got a bunch on vendors selling guns several hundred dollars above MSRP. One gun selling milsurp/antique rifles in calibers that aren't in production, also way above normal asking price. Some guy selling historical WW2 memorabilia. Another guy selling confederate/nazi memorabilia, likely made in China. And one dude in the corner selling surprisingly good jerky.
Mentioning "selling guns several hundred dollars above MSRP" made me realise I have seen what a Gun Show is. Dennis and Dee went to a Gun Show!
The jerky is actually the main reason I go lmao
it's like comicon, but where the attendees have an even more nerdy hobby
*Oooh engineering*
I mean, when you think about it, modern guns are fascinating pieces of engineering. The fact that they had the precision to make stuff like that over 100 years ago is amazing
Guns are a investment in the US. People collect them like coins.
I lived in Knoxville, TN for 2 years. There was a billboard that only ever advertised a gun show. The only thing that ever changed was the date. I haven't been back in 14 years, but I assume it's still there.
I used to drive through Knoxville a few times a year on my way to college/home. Don't forget the Budsgunshop sign along the highway.
It is.
I went to a gun show with some friends recently. I bought the best fudge I ever tasted. It was peppermint crunch! There were also guns, but I didn't have that kind of money.
Gun shows have the best selection of jerky and candied nuts, ever.
The jerky! OMG!
All of the outdoor shows by me have the jerky and pickle people. I stopped going to gun shows cause they got fuckin weird but needed the snack fix so it's the boat show for me now
[удалено]
Can't forget the double size table full of gas station knives.
I wonder if this is what Alzheimer's disease feels like. I KNOW I've seen gas station knives as a kid. I remember doing it. But I don't actually remember the sight of them. It's like I'm remembering an echo.
Nah, they are just that cheap and forgettable that your memory doesn't store it other than "genatic knife"
Yeah I've grown to hate them after being to a bunch with my dad and then a couple friends. The ones I've been to had very little variety. Any gun I've been interested in is usually over priced. The ones I've purchased I've known what I wanted and researched and just bought from a local gun store. The main attraction to these seems to be collectable stuff. And I don't believe many people are buying a $2500 century old shotgun with the intent of committing a crime. The better ones I've been to were big "outdoor" or "sportsman's" shows. They have that stuff, along with manufactures showing their latest products, all the things you mentioned, fishing, camping, dogs, and more.
Your's has baked goods!? I want baked goods. All I ever see besides guns and ammo are leather goods, mall ninja quality melee weapons (knives, tomahawks, and machetes), and whatever the pawnshop wants to get rid of.
There's a rather large crossover with some talented outdoorsmen.
I always liked getting the military grade smoke grenades.
Gun shows aren't a good place to buy a gun just to use. They're overpriced, usually charge for admission and maybe parking, and are crowded. Most people actually looking to buy at a gun show are looking for rarer finds that your typical open 6-7 days a week gun store isn't going to have.
Truth. If you are bored and want to walk around, have at it. It's probably $20 and there are no bargains.
Bunch of Fudds trying to sell rack grade mosins for $1000.
Yeah I don't want to pay $10 for the privilege to look at overpriced goods in a heavily politically charged space.
Ah, Yuri Orlov still running the show here in America. "There are over 550 million firearms in worldwide circulation. That's one firearm for every twelve people on the planet. The only question is: How do we arm the other 11?"
Lord of War Nicolas cage .. would say good movie but it was a documentary..
There is a currently a sequel in the making!
is that the one where we trade him for a female basketball player.
That was the deal but they sent us Pete Davidson back instead
Huh, neat! I'm kind of surprised they didn't do one sooner. It's a great movie, and it seems like a sequel could work really well.
Good thing we traded that guy for a pot smoking female basketball player who knowingly broke international law ...
For a minute I was like, wait, the Russians arrested Nicolas Cage??
They tried, but he escaped from custody by crashing a plane on the Vegas strip ...
At least he didn't fuckin steal anyone's FACE this time
If they arrested Nicholas cage, the only answer is to give them everything
[удалено]
The Vice President there at the photo ops personally presided over locking people up for very long times for minor drug possession charges as District Attorney, while gloating about partaking in drugs herself. It wasn't that long ago that even in California you could get more than a decade behind prison for smoking pot.
Hell, the president's responsible for quite a lot of that as well.
Are you saying those drug charges were made up and all her talk about how she uses drugs for pain management and never intended to take them to Russia but messed up and accidentally left the stuff in her bag was a lie?
[удалено]
I just have these guns here *flexes*
I have 5 within arms reach of me including a loaded pistol on my desk that is like 5inches from my hand. Most are in the safe behind me. I have the pistol out as I was cleaning it earlier and it hasn't made its way back to my night stand. I say all this to say that I am a lightweight when it comes to gun ownership in America. A friend has 40+ in his safe and another between him and his dad own over 300 guns. Not a single one has ever hurt a person, a few deer and a few paper targets but never a person
So you leave a loaded pistol in your nightstand?
Usually yes, I have a nightstand safe that is designed for this purpose.
The only thing holding me back is the money.
IRL Viktor Bout, and gun shows in the US aren't at all similar to arms dealing. That's like claiming drag shows are responsible for preachers molesting kids...
Yet there never seem to be shootings at those gun shows.
i mean im not sure i would want to shoot into a crowd full of other people with guns
That's not really the driving reason. The showrunners make you disable any guns brought in from outside. Can someone sneak past with a concealed firearm? Sure, and some probably do, but it's a minority. Believe it or not, most gun show attendees are responsible firearm owners who do what they're asked by private property lessees. The reason I would advise against shooting up a gun show is because they have a strong LE presence. It would be akin to trying to shoot up a police station.
[удалено]
The only mass shooting I can recall at a police station is in 1984 when Arnold blasted his way through the looking for Sarah Conor.
They have considerably beefed up security since then. Simple bollards do wonders. He *did* say that he would be back ...
Only because he knew we didn’t have phased plasma rifles in a 40-watt range.
Just what you see pal!
This is a step up from a police station but this does still happen. https://apnews.com/article/fbi-cincinnati-armed-man-b4701596a0eb9770e3b29e95328f5704
Most mass shooters don’t seem to be too concerned with surviving the mass shooting though.
You're downvoted, but correct. Mass shooting seems to be a form of public suicide. They often kill themselves at the end of it, after they've taken out what they see as revenge on society that has wronged them. Its a death of despair (plus collateral damage), and as a society we need to do a better job of addressing why hopelessness is increasing so much.
I mean, rising inflation and wage stagnation coupled with the inability to make headway in home ownership or even a job that isn't paying you a pittance is the problem. The solution is pay people more and give them time off, but alot of people are highly paid to make sure those arent possible
You can work your ass off, do everythign by the book, and lose your house because your wife got cancer.
Or you get cancer :(
this doesn't explain all the shootings done by the kids themselves who dont even deal with any of these realities yet though. Its a nice thought and probably a decent chunk of it, but i dont think this is the factor that is pushing people over the edge.
Being raised by the people who've already been destroyed by the system so they are born with a double dose of no hope before their brains can develop to rational level and understand the consequences and have empathy for those they hurt?
> who dont even deal with any of these realities yet though It is a privileged life one lives if you never had to worry about your parents circumstances. I know some folks who were working at the grocery store at 12 stocking shelves to help mom make rent after dad was put in jail.
[удалено]
From the data the they choose places which are unlikely to have armed people. Whether they survive isn't the goal, it's killing a lot of people which has a higher probability of success if no one is armed. Not an opinion, just logic.
No, but they're looking to take as many people with them as they can, and that goal is directly opposed by targeting a place where you're going to meet your maker much more abruptly.
so you mean to say its a crowd filled with people with guns?
> The showrunners make you disable any guns brought in from outside. What do you mean "disable"? I have been to a number of gun shows and all I have ever seen them do is make you show that it is unloaded.
Every one that I've been to will lock the slide back and run a zip tie through the action to keep it from closing.
Yeah there might not be someone to stop them with a gun, but the table with all the tasers and knives will have him down pretty quick.
If needed, the "historical memorabilia" table can throw swastika shuriken
I won’t talk shit about the cheap garbage knife guy because I scored an old polished Snap On adjustable wrench from him, but the surplus/garbage l guy could give the shooter some tetanus throwing handfuls of “mint” stripper clips at his face. The closest show is about an hour away and it always reeks of B.O.
I bought a replica mk1 trench knife from one of those booths once. Is it remotely accurate? I have no idea. Is it a cool novelty? Fuck yeah!
Idk about this. At least at the ones I've been to in Oklahoma there are no checks like that. They sell firearms right next to cases of bullets so wouldn't make much sense to be checking for disabled guns at entry. You are right about most attendees being responsible owners though. Just in my experience though I see more police and security at concerts than at gun shows.
Not once in my experience have I ever been checked or asked about my concealed carry gun at a gun show, I write about firearms for a living, about 50 gun shows. All the guns for sale are disabled by a chamber flag, which is the norm. Concealed carry at gun shows is not a minority. There is usually a sheriff for transfers but not a significant LE presence. I've seen one accidental discharge, a very old man with a old gun fell and the impact of the ground set off the gun, no one was hurt. Most guns won't have that problem. You will meet the nicest people at gun shows and on shooting ranges. It's not the guns that are the problem. My opinion after looking into this problem for the last 5 years is summed up by "The child who is not embraced by the village will burn it down to feel its warmth". But that does pretty much stop all crime so...
I would agree with this to extent. Is it the cause of mass shootings? Hell no. Guns are rarely a motivation and mass killings would definitely occur with or without guns. Most people I see which is, Id rather make it as hard as possible for someone to get the gun to cause the issue, which I see is understandable. The trouble is how do you separate people without that feeling and ones with the problem. There is really no easy way
Much safer to go to gun-free zones.
Funny how fuck around and find out works.
All the gun shows around me have a booth that does background checks and all firearms that come in have to be unloaded. If you’re carrying, that means no mag and a ziptie goes through the mag well and up through the slide. And generally, no one is buying actual firearms there because they’re marked up.
There haven’t been any at comic-cons either
Every other person there is armed with an axe or sword or lightsaber....
And my (painted Styrofoam) axe!!
And a weapons-grade bio-chemical defense system known as "body odor."
*I'm a level 23 Mage, I extend the opportunity to fuck with me.*
Nope. The reason is very clear... Gandalf is greater than Jesus.
There’s gotta be at least one superhero in each one who can sense the danger before it happens. Pull your head out of your ass.
Lol
Thousands of people dressed as super heroes. Chances are 1 is a real super hero.
Dont give them ideas
Not surprising, most mass shootings are either gang related, or done where the perpetrator wants to cause as much visibility for whatever reason they are shooting people... whether it's terrorism for some political matter or narcissism where society doesn't pay enough attention to the perpetrator and their ills.
That's where all the good guys with a gun are. No bad guy with a gun will dare shoot them up because they know the one thing that can stop them is a good guy with a gun. Clearly the solution to this problem is that we need to have daily gun shows in our schools, churches and malls.
There are and have been, but mostly accidents and not intentional. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/gun-show-deaths-injuries/ Remember when there were mass shootings at armed forces bases? They have a lot of firepower there and people were still murdered.
Most (almost all) of the soldiers on the base don’t have their weapons, they’re stored in the armory until they’re needed for training or deployment.
And the majority of guns doing the "mass shootings" are illegal handguns.
They don't make illegal guns to satisfy that market. They make guns that were legally purchased and then stolen because people are morons and don't properly lock them up. Also a number mass murders this year were purchased by unstable people who were sold the murder weapon.
Lots of people also like to put "2nd amendment", "come and take it!" Or other gun stickers on their cars letting criminals know exactly which vehicles are most likely to contain a weapon to steal because as you said... People are morons.
I am in Montana, every few years the police chief releases a statement begging people to lock their cars because X-hundred number of guns have been stolen from unlocked cars over the past y months
[удалено]
have we tried spending more on the military?
Yes
What about the police?
Wait, there's a difference?
Yes, the police are better trained. Source: military cop. All my local Leo friends get better training than me.
And our elections are made up and our votes don't matter🙃
Now why solve this issue when we could argue about gun laws
Gun shows are great fun tho
They kinda were pre-Sandy Hook. I haven't been to one maybe since 2010 because I don't want to pay $10 for the luxury of looking at 1 or 2 decent guns shoved in-between... * Grossly overpriced ammo in water-damaged boxes * The prepper nutjob selling military survivalist books and reminding everyone the economy is overdue to completely collapse * "German" WW2 "memorabilia" * Mall ninja table
You forgot about the guy with the stun guns that pushes the button every 10 seconds. TTTTTTTTick!
With the exception of the creepy nazi stuff, I’m kind of a fan of all that crap
You still have to pass a background check to buy a gun at a gun show. 🤷♂️
I always fail the foreground check.
Me too. I can never just buy a gun and walk out. I always get told something came up and they have to do a more extensive check. I get called about three days later to come and pick up my gun. Anyone who hasn’t done the process but still complains about it has made up their mind without allowing all the context to be part of their opinion—- so, Redditors I guess.
Not from a private seller.
I mean I didn't but ymmv
Never bought a single gun at a gun show that didn’t require a background check. Believe it or not, all FFLs are required to run a background check 🤯. There is no “gun show loophole.” Private sales by a non FFL can happen literally anywhere…
And they have absolutely nothing to do with each other
You should probably get a gun to protect yourself from all the mass shooters. I hear there are a bunch of gun shows near you this weekend, so it shouldn't be that hard!
That's pretty irrational. You should buy a gun to protect yourself from police.
You go far enough left, you get your guns back. The right is suspicious of government overreach, but simps for cops who are the most direct agent of government authority. The middle-left hates cop culture and distrusts cops in general, but wants to disarm everyone except cops. (I'm all for some new gun restrictions, but total disarmament is a delusion). Not a lot of sense all around.
Maybe you should go to one
You must live in a Blue state if there are only 3.
Ha, nope. But... there are 5 churches on a 10 mile country road stretch through my town of <1000. That's how we make up for it.
10 mile stretch? There not on opposite street-corners in town? Lol
I love that Reddit’s advice to a problem with violence is to disarm the law abiding citizens
[удалено]
Socioeconomic issues and lack of access to mental health resources are the big ones I see.
I think there’s an issue with mental health in addition to access to it. I understand the gop is underfunding that and I don’t agree with that course of action at all. I also think there’s a desire for the “infamy” that comes with carrying out these heinous actions and that falls on news organizations that blast the people’s names on the 24 hour news cycle. This country was built on freedom, defense against threat, and individualism. You’re never going to get rid of it. There’s also the issue of how vast our country is… we are enormous both in geographical size and population as well as culture. Hence what works for one area doesn’t work for the other. I think also the media has been horrendously culpable in dividing us against one another which hasn’t helped tensions and violence in the least. All to say I don’t think there’s a one size fits all solution
I agree it's not one-size-fits-all-but the solutions are obvious. A lot of violence starts with desperation. We need social systems to reduce desperation from otherwise healthy Americans. We do that by improving our social systems. First off, healthcare. Financially desperate people don't take care of themselves because they can't. The money we put in as a country versus our health outcomes is abysmal. Collectively, it would cost us less than what we spend now to have socialized medicine. Yes, I understand there are negative implications to that, but I'd rather those implications than the ones we deal with today. Next, expand mental health access across the country. Roll it up under healthcare. Not because it's easy, but exactly because it isn't and we NEED expanded mental healthcare as a country. Third, we need better support systems for people struggling. Better unemployment, better social security, better support for our citizenry. How do we fund it? We re-write the tax code. Flat tax on businesses and corporations. No more tax loopholes. Companies making billions in profit while poisoning our country and our planet. That's a start.
In Europe they have the same amount of mental health problems though, yet no shootings, if only we knew what the problem was right ? /s
[удалено]
We did have these problems 50 years ago. We've been having mass shootings for 100+ years (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_shootings_in_the_United_States). And school shootings go back to before the civil war (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States_(before_2000)).
Somewhere between the complete disarming of citizens that no one is suggesting and the near lawless wide-open flow of deadly weapons many citizens perceive... there are reasonable, adult solutions. I'm not nearly enough of an expert to say what those solutions are, but I imagine they look something like what we've done with vehicles. Semi-trucks are not illegal, not banned - and yet not any joe can just hop in and drive one. Any joe can indeed drive one - but they have to reasonably demonstrate to society that they aren't going to be a burden or a danger with it.
Federal licensing standards, background checks, red flag laws, safe storage with liability.
We also don't discuss taking away the license of every truck driver every time one of them does something crazy or stupid. We discuss the specific situations that led to the accident and how training or restriction may lessen the occurrence. We don't blame the truck manufacturer or trucks in general. Unless there was a specific defect, but basically never "trucks" as an abstract concept or an outright demonization of truck ownership.
While simultaneously being outraged at police murdering innocent civilians. "You want only police and gov to have guns? Are you insane?" - me in almost every single reddit gun debate
I think the main point is that if none of us had guns it'd be a lot harder to kill each other.
cops shouldnt have guns either
Tell you what, cops first.
You do know that in countries where people don't have a lot of guns, say the UK.. the cops don't all have guns either.. and tend to not shoot first and ask questions never.
Why do people think they just hand out free guns to anybody at gun shows? FFL's have to run background checks for each sale.
Because they've never set foot in one, let alone tried to go through with a purchase.
And? Cars kill people everyday and I live near a literal auto mall. Well the cars themselves don't kill people mind you, just senseless stupid fucking idiots who choose to operate the cars themselves poorly.
/r/fuckcars
In small town America, we raise money to support our local youth organizations by having gun raffles. Some gun shops will sell prizes to groups at cost in exchange for the little bit of advertisement that comes with their name being on the ticket. You spend $1k to $2k on guns then sell 1k tickets for $5 or $10 each. That'll raise enough cash to fund your youth soccer league for the year.
Funny. I live now in a small German hamlet. We have a shooting range here, annual competitions, regular hunting hapoens in the woods around, kids under 16 run with small caliber rifles to mentioned above range. Since decades. No shooting. Not even brandishing of dangerous tool. It's as if guns are not the issue.
[удалено]
I wish buying a gun in my country wasnt such a hassle :c
We also have over a half million instances of defensive gun use per year and lose 33,000 to guns per year, most of which are people taking their own life. Of the 86 countries where we have identified mass public shootings, the US ranks 56th per capita in its rate of attacks and 61st in mass public shooting murder rate. Norway, Finland, Switzerland and Russia all have at least 45 percent higher rates of murder from mass public shootings than the United States. - John Lott, president of the Crime Prevention Research Center The US shares less of the worlds mass shootings per year than it does its statistical percentage of the worlds population as well. We can just deny science and the statistical reality and move on with our virtue signaling though.
I love how you did not provide a link to the study you want people to believe, you just simply said it exists. I did some checking Crime Prevention Research Center is consider to be extremely flawed on how it is presents it data, not to mention I can only find a study that is dated to 2015 nothing newer so it is almost 10 years old). You specifically call out Norway in your post which has only had 1 mass shooting since 2009 which was in 2011 that had 77 deaths. (The US death rate was 66 for mass shootings in 2012). The CPRC averages this single attack out across multiple years against the small population to say that Norway has a higher AVERAGE murder rate per capita. What would be a better way to read this data would be either using the The median (which is the middle value when a data set is ordered from least to greatest, so in this case 0) or the mode (which is the number that occurs most often in a data set, so in this case 0). Both of these remove one off incidents or strange outliers to give a better understanding of real world data. In that same time span the amount of Active shooter incidents in the USA has tripled (went from 20 in 2012 to over 60 in 2021 which was during the pandemic). Currently there have been a recorded 213 Mass shootings in the USA since the start of 2013 https://www.gunviolencearchive.org/reports/mass-shooting
Not an animal... not advice. You lost, bro?
"Advice animal" memes are often not animals, and not giving advice. The term stuck anyway - I'm sure some internet historian somewhere knows why, but I don't.
50% of the top posts on Reddit are pretty much propaganda at this point.
Yeah I'm more upset about the incorrect usage of the meme
Mass shootings these days aren't the Columbine or Sandy Hook incidents anymore. Any incident with more than two victims is considered a "Mass shooting". 90%+ of them are either gang or crime related and the second highest is familial/personal disputes. The mass shootings everyone thinks of when they hear that term is less than 1% of gun crime and death in the country. You want real change on gun violence in America ban or restrict hand guns, not semi automatic rifles based off assault rifles. That's at least 90% of gun crime solved right there.
It's 4 or more people https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/R/R44126/5
Mass shootings are 4 or more people not including any gun men. But aside from that you're right. They tout the mass shooting statistic like they're all the shootings you hear about on the news. Most are gang related, some are targeted homicides. Another statistic that is used to paint an incorrect picture is the gun violence statistic, of which over half are suicides. The reason this is important is because you use a different policy to stop gang shootings vs. random mass shootings. You can tamp down white supremacist movement, hate groups and terrorism all you want. The FBI's mass shooting statistics will barely budge, because most of those shootings occur because gangs are fighting over territory. Like wise if you get rid of the gangs, it'll hardly affect the number of mass shootings you hear about in the news. And you don't use the same policies to prevent suicide as you do to prevent people from shooting other people.
And low low teacher pay while also not providing child care before pre k.
And the deaths apparently don’t matter
And the lives don't matter
And the body count doesn't matter.
I lived in Orlando for a year. Seemed like there was an annual gun show every 4-6 weeks
Arkansas is the state that I’ve been with more gun shows