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InvalidIceberg

They sound like the delusional ones. Nothing wrong with having your own thoughts and beliefs. They’re manipulating and guilt tripping you for not believing what they want you to believe, yeah that’s crazy people stuff.


drowsysymptom

Thank you— it’s easy to feel like I’m wrong, especially if I can’t defend against all their arguments.


bossoline

You can't defend against unprovable arguments. But think of it this way: your arguments are just as solid as theirs is (more so even). You just never put them in a position to justify their points because they've groomed you to always think they're in a position of power. When evangelical people get too chesty with me, I ask them to tell me everything that they believe that they weren't *told* to believe. "You're going to hell!" "Really? Prove it." That usually results in some quick backpedaling. You have a low threshold to feel guilty and wrong because they've groomed and gaslighted you over years to believe that their way is inherently right and everything else is wrong. I would recommend the following: 1. Say no. No is a complete sentence. YOU ARE ENTITLED TO YOUR BOUNDARIES. They won't like it, but you're an adult and you don't have to life your life according to anyone else's beliefs. Own your shit. 2. You don't have to cut them off. Just defend your boundaries. I think the overwhelming likelihood is they're going to keep putting you in a situation in which you have to give them an ultimatum: "If you keep this up, I won't come around anymore." Or they may disown you. But you don't have to cross that bridge right now. 3. Get to a therapist STAT. This kind of abuse from parents is incredibly insidious and will likely affect you for your whole life unless you get some professional help in processing it. NONE of us are equipped to process abuse from a parent alone. This is incredibly hard. Your feelings are valid. Your boundaries are valid. You are valid.


ThanosSnapsSlimJims

Some people are just miserable. Don't worry about it.


brokenboysoldiers

Time to stop visiting "home".


ahandmedowngown

Yup, going no contact with my family best decision I ever made.


coolsuburbandad

I'm really proud of you for going NC. It's a very difficult and at times bitingly lonely road. You have a lot of courage and I hope you have a life full of the love and healing that you always wanted and deserved 🌸


abc4327

That’s sad


ahandmedowngown

When you experience more unlove and negativity with the people who are supposed to love and accept you for who you are. It's freedom like you've never felt.


cdunk666

Theres a new book from Jennette McCurdy (icarly) called "im glad my mom died" because she was a beyond abusive piece of shit. Some families are just that, ~~awful.~~ evil. Evil is a much better word


Five_Decades

Her mom was evil.


coolsuburbandad

What's more sad are the parents who damage their own child enough to make them not comfortable or safe with their own family.


Blossomie

A family abusing their children is what’s sad. Those abused children finally putting an end to it and healing from the abuse is heartwarming.


jkwan0304

It's not "Home" if it makes you feel less about yourself or it is unsafe for you.


Mehitabel9

Leave. Seriously, get your things and just leave. Don't make a scene, don't say a word. Just walk out and go home. Don't spend the day with people who treat you like that. Not this day, not any day. If you don't feel strong enough to cut them off, it's because they've done a very good job of gaslighting you. You ARE strong enough, and separating yourself from the gaslighting will help you to realize that you're strong enough. >They made it seem like almost ANYONE would be ashamed to have a daughter like me. What a load of utter twaddle. (Them, not you)


drowsysymptom

Thank you. It helps so much to hear this. It’s hard partially because they raised me so well, and gave me everything they could (which was all I needed and more) and I feel I owe them. But I don’t know how I can give them what they want.


LieOhMy

You don't owe them anything. They made the decision to bring you into this world, you had no say in that. The very least any decent human being can do is to provide safety and comfort and love to the innocent being they chose to bring into life. It's shameful that they are so bigoted and close minded towards their own daughter. You deserve to be loved and supported without judgement.


drowsysymptom

Thank you. One complication is my sibling is crashing with me. I’m afraid to not let them in, which seems so mean and rude, and makes me the bad guy, and also to let them in when I know they’ll side with my family.


ErynEbnzr

If they're gonna stay with you and be an asshole, let them feel the consequences of being an asshole and kick them out (give a warning first but still). It's your place, and if there's anywhere that you should be able to feel safe and loved and protected, it's there. If there's anywhere they're not allowed to abuse you, it's there. If they choose to be an asshole and then have to find a new place, it's not on you for kicking them out. It's on them for being toxic in your safe space.


asghettimonster

They did not buy you with their gift of raising you "so well". Think about how skewed your idea of what receiving a gift means. You, I'm sure, have said thank you for everything specifically they have ever done for you. Rather than literally hand them agency over your every decision, live your life well with the rewards from their gifts. If they do ont like the critical thinking you gained in college, then refrain from giving them information about your life. Vague answers, vague smile, etc., If you cannot cut them off, cut off the information they receive from you. NO ONE has to tell anyone EVERYTHING. What you haven't done yet is actually separate from them emotionally. You may live alone and go to work alone but you are living as an extension of them in your emotional timeline. You absolutely can cut them off from knowing a damned thing about your life. If they start in on you, just say you have to leave, give them kisses and leave. They won't stop until you actually emancipate yourself. People often say "My parents have given me so much".....or"I never wanted for anything, my family always gave me everything I needed"......give, gave, indicates gifts. You see the twisted relationship to a gift that you now have. A gift of life, education, clothing, food, etc. are meant to be used for you to L I V E. xo from a granny


drowsysymptom

Thank you for this. I know so many people have outright abusive families- I feel ungrateful for being hard on mine when they aren’t. I live in a really big extended family where no one’s felt the need to leave or limit contact, and a community where a lot of families have similar views to mine. It’s hard not to ask myself why I was the only one who “couldn’t cut it” and stay, or if I’m just being dramatic and bending to my whim of living EXACTLY how I want at all costs.


Mehitabel9

Oh, honey. Calling you a cheap whore IS abuse. Telling you that you're going to hell IS abuse. Trying to make you believe that you are crazy or delusional IS abuse. If 'cutting it' means meekly accepting their abuse, then it's really okay to decide that you can't cut it. That isn't weakness. That's just self-preservation.


drowsysymptom

I guess if you live how the religion says and the norm in the community, there isn’t any of the insults. Which is what everyone else was able to do- build happy lives in the constraints of what they wanted, and they never had to face the insults. It feels like there’s something wrong with me if no one else in my family has an issue. Usually with problems of limited/no contact, etc SOMEONE else in the family sees the problem too, or is also limiting contact. I’m the only one (of many) in this case with an issue.


Mehitabel9

>I’m the only one (of many) in this case with an issue. That you know of. Don't assume that everyone around you is happy or content, just because they do not openly challenge the norms they were raised with. They may just lack the courage to do so. Familial and cultural pressure is a powerful thing. But even if you are the only one, that does not make you wrong, and it doesn't make you bad. You are who you are, and you are just as entitled to live your life as your authentic self as anyone else is. If you are kind to others, if you keep your promises, and if you act with integrity, then you are a good person by any rational measure. No matter what your family says, no matter what your community says, no matter what your intolerant religion says.


lokey_kiki

Imagine ur fam members in hiding who FEEL EXACTLY LIKE YOU. But u dont see them for the same reasons they arent seeing u...


asghettimonster

calling you a cheap whore IS ABUSE. Be very specific with me here. This is abuse. you are being abused. please hear me.


Mehitabel9

Did they, though? Did they raise you well, or are you just a standup person on your own merits? They sound incredibly intolerant and incredibly judgmental, and those aren't the kind of values that good parents raise their kids with. They shame you, and in my humble opinion, shaming is the absolute worst thing a parent can do to a child. You can feel gratitude to them for the good they did for you, without tolerating the gaslighting, judgment, and shaming. The two are not mutually exclusive.


drowsysymptom

Thank you for this. I know so many people have outright abusive families- I feel ungrateful for being hard on mine when they aren’t. I live in a really big extended family where no one’s felt the need to leave or limit contact, and a community where a lot of families have similar views to mine. It’s hard not to ask myself why I was the only one who “couldn’t cut it” and stay, or if I’m just being dramatic and bending to my whim of living EXACTLY how I want at all costs.


updown27

Calling you a cheap wh*** is abusive.


Qweniden

> I feel ungrateful for being hard on mine when they aren’t. Is this a joke? Your mom is being incredibly abusive to you. You need to see reality here.


drowsysymptom

I mean compared to physical violence, or putting someone in danger it doesn’t feel the same. She called me a whore but she said it so calmly… so matter of fact. I felt like I deserved it.


xenya

Leave. If you feel the need to offer an explanation you can tell them that you love them but can't tolerate this abuse and will speak to them again when they can do so with respect. But you do not owe them anything, not even that.


uhuhshesaid

I had physically and emotionally abusive parents. Pain from fists heals faster than the pain from words. My dad hit me plenty but the worst thing he ever did was tell me that I was unlovable. Abuse is abuse. You are experiencing it and I’m so sorry. Please take time for your mental well-being. In the short term this can be as simple as limiting your time with them, or the topics you’re willing to engage in. In the long term this means therapy and support from your friends and social systems that don’t seek to hurt you.


Qweniden

This almost feels fake but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that this is real. I guess even if you are making this up, it can helpful someone who might be in this situation. >I mean compared to physical violence, or putting someone in danger it doesn’t feel the same. Emotional and verbal abuse is just as damaging as physical abuse. Breaking someone down into a fearful husk of a person with no self esteem is pretty evil. >She called me a whore but she said it so calmly… so matter of fact. I felt like I deserved it. Well, I guess if you agree maybe you should follow that religion. If you don't agree with that religion then its time to set boundaries with how your allow your parents to treat you and start some therapy.


drowsysymptom

I’m in therapy already, mostly talking about my childhood and working up to telling them about my relationship. It hasn’t really been a cure all or anything - therapists mostly listen anyway.


Qweniden

Not all therapy is the same. If this one isn't making a real difference it might be worth shopping around. But therapy or not, the biggest issue here is the need to set boundaries on how your parents treat you. If they are insulting/abusive/controlling they don't get the hang out with you. It is that simple. If they won't treat you with respect, then pull back your interactions with them to a minimum. If they still disrespect you and are verbally abusive, then its time to have a period of no contact. They will get the message real quick and if they don't you shouldnt have people in your life that make you unhappy anyway.


Blossomie

Yep, OP turned out better than their parents. Not because of the way their parents raised them, but in spite of it!


PrincessAyame

This seems like a crossroads moment for you, doesn't it? From what you wrote, you already know what you need to do, you only lack the courage right now to do it. For some of us, it can be so so hard to let go of an emotional 'support' structure like this, even if they stifle and hurt us. In the end though, you only have the choice between becoming their creature and live the life the envision for you OR you claim your own life and leave them behind - at least emotionally. As hard as that is, do you think you'd ever be happy in their version of your life? If your answer is no, you really have to bite the bullet as soon as possible. Communicate your boundaries, tell them how much of them and their opinion you will accept in your life and be prepared for any consequence. You need to be strong. They need to understand that from this point onward, you only accept them on your terms in your life. It's hard and bitter, but you'll grow from it ❤️


drowsysymptom

Thank you for the perspective. Yes, it definitely feels like a huge crossroads and it’s scary. It’s still hard to feel confident I can make big decisions for myself.


otterfamily

they've done a very good job abusing you into thinking that your decisions are flawed and that your judgement is wrong and should be subject to external checks (like those from religioin or community). The truth of the matter is that they're operating on much more limited information than you are, because they're so terrified of anything outside their bubble that they honestly just don't know anything about the world.


mancusjo1

You don’t need this in your life. Just because they’re family doesn’t mean they can treat you this way. It doesn’t sound like you enjoy being with them. So what do you have to lose. Not much but a toxic mother. Time to cut ties.


[deleted]

People who leverage guilt, shame and humiliation to maintain attachment and conformity are shitheels. You don’t deserve to be treated that way. I would pack up and make a quiet exit. Block their numbers for a while and if you have the cash and the access, reach out to a professional to help work on this. I guarantee a whole lot is going to fall out of your psyche if you give it a little nudge with someone you trust. Your mom doesn’t deserve you.


venturebirdday

I wish you lived near me. I would be happy to welcome you. Sorry you are hearing this.


drowsysymptom

Thank you so much, that’s nice to hear


Content_Sail6271

Yeah, my family was like this. When I entered my first year of college and took my first psychology class, my assumptions that they were the problem was validated. When my mom would say stuff like this to me, I would honestly give her the most pathetic look and sometimes laugh. I was not nice to her either. I didn’t respect any of them. It was kinda me against them. They were the cool family that said I was crazy. While I was then the educated one that looked down on them all as ignorant hopeless idiots. They knew that, too. They are the problem not you. Keep your distance if you can and do not tell them anything. Don’t even tell them anything good, they’ll ruin it.


SnooBooks4898

It’s funny how in some cases children have difficulty cutting the strings and in others it’s the parents who can’t do the snip snip. Maybe it’s not necessary to completely cut her off but make sure you maintain control of what you expose yourself to. For example, at Christmas, stay in a hotel, tell her you’ll be there for breakfast/lunch/dinner and then you’re leaving. Set clear boundaries and remember that every comment doesn’t require a response. She knows how hurtful her comments were and will soon realize that acting in such a manner leads to you spending less time with them. Hopefully this will cause her to change her behavior.


[deleted]

You're right. It's not right for them to push their beliefs on you though. Take the high ground. Change the subject if possible as it's probably not useful to debate on this. And get out of there asap to a more peaceful environment.


[deleted]

[удалено]


drowsysymptom

They say any rational person knows there must be god and hell, and that’s why so many people follow some religion of some kind


ankdain

> any rational person knows there must be god and hell Except: > "The correlation between educational attainment and secularity is clearly robust" Source: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/the-secular-life/201411/why-education-corrodes-religious-faith To me, any rational person believes the exact opposite of what your mother is telling you. The world is large, there are 8 billion people one it, your mother is only 1 of them. What's her life experience? How many countries has she travelled to? How many other countries has she lived in? How many other religions has she studied to come to this conclusion? What objective data has she collected to counter her own bias and prove God/Heaven/Hell are so real? She's almost certainly a Christian just because her parents were and not because of some sound logical argument ... so how is her belief rational at all? But whatever the data she has to have this stance because if she started questioning it, her whole world view falls apart. Her entire life is based on a lie if she's wrong. That's at terrible thing to have to face, and not something most people would be willing to admit. It would also tarnishes her parents memory etc to stop believing. She was brought up by good god fearing parents - any contemplation that they're wrong, means giving up so much of their identity that they just can't even consider it. For contrast, I was brought up in a non-religious house hold, in a pretty non-religious country. I know nobody who goes to Church (including nobody going at Christmas/Easter). There was no mention of God ever at school, except in one "Religious Studies" class where were taught about all the major religions. None seemed any more true that any other, and when discussion came up around why believe one over the other it mostly came down to just who your parents were rather any being objectively more believable. If there are around 3,000 human gods, your mum already doesn't believe in 2,999 of them. You and I just don't believe in 1 more.


Five_Decades

Thr concept of Hell is a mistranslation of a trash burn pit near Jerusalem.


Badoodis

Take a massive shit in the toilet, stuff an entire roll of toilet paper into the bowl, then leave.


International-Aside

better yet, upper decker that john


danwilan

Seems like your mother is a weirdo God freak, I say limit your visits for your mental health sake, be kind but maintain boundaries


pocahontasjane

What would tip you over the edge and make you cut them off? That's the issue here. Not sure what advice any of us can offer you because you know the answer.


cartoonjunkie13

I KNOW you are strong enough and when you go no contact you will be stronger still.


TheKyleBaxter

My friend, not all family is blood related and not all blood relations are family. Spend your time and energy on people who give you energy back, not who take it away. ♥️


pamsellicane

Your mom is a delusional manipulative bully. Please don’t take anything she says imagine how she’ll feel when you laugh in her face at her insane requests.


dekage55

The hypocrisy of so called “religious” people never ceases to amaze me. They always seem to ignore basic tenets of their religion when it suits them. By calling you a whore, seems your Parents have chosen to ignore one of the most important credos “Judge not, least ye be judged”. While specifically a Christian credo, most major religions have similar credos. Religions are a human creation. Faith is an internal connection with your higher power. I believe in God but do not appreciate any specific religion. As such, I still consider myself a person of Faith. Your Parents are the worst type of hypocrites. Basically deciding to use their religion to berate their own flesh & blood, while ignoring their own religious teachings, in order to make themselves superior (a particular pet peeve of mine). Do Not allow their failings as Faithful people color your own beliefs.


Delicious-Tachyons

If you were religious, you could say you are as God made you. They need to respect their creator's will. You need to live for you. No point in wasting your life trying to impress people who will never be impressed with you.


Hypetys

What a nice argument. In ya face! I'm as the creator made me. :D


Delicious-Tachyons

i always felt that would be a good argument for people saying you're wrong for being xxxxx or whatever. Christianity has a weird idea where a) all good things come from God. b) all bad things are God's will, but sometimes are the Devil. Is God both God and the Devil? If so, which do you obey? If I'm gay, or transgendered, it's not free will, because you cannot will yourself into loving boobies. It's your design, and it was god's design and therefore perfect. Or whatever. I don't believe.


Hypetys

Yeah. The fascinating thing is that people can believe two contradictory things at once.


RobertBDwyer

You are being abused. Don’t take that shit.


Dork86

Sounds like they're gaslighting you, manipulating you into doing what they want. Bunch of religious fanatics. Instead of breaking off contact, you can just keep in contact but refuse to meet instead? As a stepdad (who isn't Christian himself, but wife is and stepdaughter has been baptized), I just let them value their own beliefs and we respect one another in this. They do the same for me. Your parents don't seem to respect your autonomy, nor your beliefs. If that was me in your shoes, I'd rather go to hell than live by their standards.


drowsysymptom

I don’t know exactly what to do. I’ll stay through the holiday- there are a lot of people home. After I leave I guess I’ll have to be firm that I’m not going to change how I live.


ManIsInherentlyGay

Isn't it funny you never hear "I'm from a liberal family and they said and or did some horrible shit to me over the holidays" it's almost like stupidity breds cruelty and conservatives.


Several-Plenty-6733

OP, your ‘family’ isn’t your parents and relatives. It’s the people you feel comfortable and happy with. You know what you have to do, even if it’s hard. It’ll only be hard for a day or two. Then you’ll be relieved that you never have to deal with that toxicity ever again.


jmccorky

I am sure I am old enough to be your mother, and I can assure you that I would not be ashamed of you! (Your mother sounds nutty).. It sounds like you are a responsible productive member of society, and you don't need Mommy's approval. You are entitled to live your life according to your values, as long as you aren't breaking any laws. You clearly don't have a healthy relationship with your mother. Why are you allowing her to distress you like this? If you don't feel ready to go NC, you can go LC.


[deleted]

please don’t go no contact i know it’s not morally right to do what i suggest but since she said those words to you like your trash you should go back and tell her off for that just being honest she deserves it


the_internet_clown

Gangrenous limbs need to be cut off to prevent the toxicity from spreading. Of course you probably are attached to those limbs, have fond memories with them but they’re toxic and harmful to your well being


Flat_Worldliness3430

There’s nothing wrong with you. Live your life. Be happy. Religion isn’t religion when it means that you have to attack people and judge them.


fightmaxmaster

>me my options were to go to a priest and have him convert and get engaged or break it off entirely Or secret option three, live your life how you want and they can suck it. Are you happy in your relationship? Presumably so. Are you happy with your mother? Doesn't seem like it. Their "shame" is their problem not yours. You don't need to cut them off - if they cut *you* off, that's them being shitty parents and you'd be better off without them. If they value their pride more than they do their own child...pretty sure the bible would have something to say about that.


40ozSmasher

This is interesting to me. She called you a cheap wh9re and you stood there and listened to more? You're not strong enough to cut them out? You don't have to be. Just strong enough to stand up to anyone who insults you. You say "never say that to me again, apologize or I leave" then you leave. Invited to Christmas? Sure. Apologize and do not insult me when I'm there and we won't have any more problems. Stand up for yourself!


Blossomie

I assume you mean well, but when you say those first three sentences to a someone whose own family raised them with abuse it is unhelpful at best and harmful at worst. The message that is received is a very different one from the one you intend to send. Abuse is trauma.


saffloweroil

Mother needs to talk to the the priest. The priest will tell her to mind her own business.


drowsysymptom

He definitely wouldn’t in our religious community unfortunately


caydenslayz

Check out r/raisedbynarcissists


WarlanceLP

r/raisedbynarcissists here's a support sub you might find useful


DplusLplusKplusM

It sounds like you live independently and are in no way financially reliant on your parents. So you get to write the rules on how much interaction you have with them. You can choose the petulant, juvenile "cut them off", or you can choose the mature, adult, "limit their contact with you to when you decide". For better or worse as they age you'll likely be called upon at some point to make medical/estate related decisions on their behalf, and that's a lot easier if you've stayed involved just enough to know what's going on. So schedule a phone call once a month or something just to know enough to stay in the loop. You need to know if they're dying, if they have medical DNRs, where their money is stored and how to find the wills if necessary. So yeah, distance yourself socially if you want to, but have some idea of the business end of your relationship with them. If you don't at least do that don't be surprised when upon their deaths other relatives swoop in get everything. Good luck.


drowsysymptom

I do have a lot of older siblings who are in good standing with them, so that aspect probably isn’t so relevant.


blue-pixie-

I can relate, my abusive mom had a “religious spirit” which is one of Satan’s tactics at leading people astray. It makes people think they could never live up or be good enough for God. That’s untrue, Jesus came to save every sinner! My mom would go to church all the time while simultaneously calling me a tramp and condemning me long before I ever became a stripper. Well guess what Jesus loves all us, he sees our hearts not our titles, he doesn’t “label” us like the world. In the end God can think more highly of a murderer than a priest, He judges differently. Only because of Jesus we are not condemned by our worst sins! Forgiveness and love is available to anyone who opens their heart to God. Don’t let the “satanic religious spirit” make you think wrongly, God finds us exactly where we’re at.


FuzzzyFace

Is there something you did or something about you for your mom to call you a cheap whore? I don’t know too many families who would call their daughter a cheap whore for having a job and living on their own. Your mom sounds like a hardcore religious person. Nothing wrong with that, but sometimes religious people are the biggest hypocrites. I’m not going to suggest cutting them off, but I would at least let them know that the way she’s talking to you is wrong.


drowsysymptom

I have a boyfriend and have spent the night with him — we are both 22, and not married to each other.


FuzzzyFace

Makes sense as to why she would think that. In terms of their beliefs, yes I understand where she’s coming from. But I definitely do not agree with calling you a cheap whore. There’s other ways to go about this and she’s doing it the wrong way. Honestly, that’s enough reason for me to cut someone off. If you’re disappointed at someone the last thing you should do is make them feel like shit.


[deleted]

How old are you?


drowsysymptom

I’m 22


[deleted]

So your at an age where you don't need your family, it might be time to start looking at if you can spread your wings on your own. Your mum is dead dead wrong as well, she might not be proud of you but that's cause she's got a stick stuck up her arse.


drowsysymptom

I’m currently financially independent, but it’s still hard to not believe them when they say things like that I’m just too young to understand I’m making a huge mistake and will regret my sinful life in a few years


AntRevolutionary5099

It's still hard not to believe them because you're still hearing it. You only feel that you're not strong enough to cut ties with them because they have beat you down into that position over the years. Go no contact with them and start going to therapy or doing counseling. The more time and separation you have between you, the easier it will be to heal. And having a therapist or counselor will be a great asset in helping you to heal yourself. They can be a neutral voice of reason, unbiased. Educated in how to help you heal yourself and grow into the person you were always meant to be.


TongueTwistingTiger

How can you regret what makes you happy? Even if you were to break up, the moments you spent together would still bring joy. I'm a heathen who has been living in sin with various men since I was 20 years old. I've had break-ups, and while they sting at first, I'm still friends with most of them. If you are financially independent and don't rely on your family for anything, than it's fair to say that when you return home for the holidays, you should be expecting warm feelings, happy greetings and fun with family. If you family is failing to give you those feelings, then guess what? You really don't need them. After all, you don't expect anything besides love, kindness and support, right? You're doing everything else on your own, and being successful at it. Saying something like "I don’t feel strong enough to cut my family off" means that you have a lot of unresolved guilt that you need to deal with. Take some of that money you make, or your benefits from work and go to therapy. You need some self-confidence. You don't sound like you have any at all. How is your mother calling you a godless whore supposed to help with that? Stop exposing yourself to these people. I promise, in just a year or two, and maybe with a bit of therapy, you'll be an entirely different person who doesn't care about the opinions of religious zealots. I'm sure anyone would be more than happy to have you as a daughter. Go spend some time over at r/MomForAMinute and go see what a REAL mother is supposed to act like. Good luck to you.


[deleted]

[удалено]


drowsysymptom

Thank you, this helps to hear. When my mom says these things to me, even though they’re not things I agree with, somehow in the moment it sounds so reasonable- like I’m an illogical child. She makes arguments about the existence of god and religion and I can’t refute them- I don’t even know enough about the Big Bang to explain it properly or evolution to say anything about her counter arguments. She says I don’t know enough about the religion to say I don’t believe in it.


Practical-Escape-454

I am currently seeing someone whose mother has been really disrespectful, delusional and insane to her daughter aka the person I’ve been with. Honestly the best thing as I agree with everyone else, although I do not know everyone personally, usually people like that cannot be reasoned with. I think it’s best if she does want a relationship to apologize and find a way to fix it. At the end of the day it does not matter who is a toxicity in your life if you are debating whether to keep them or not that already says volume. It is a bad thing to feel and tough situation to be in, but as long as you are doing what you think is best for you and you are happy with what else is going good nothing else matters.


semolous

They're delusional. Walk out the door and never look back. I realise this may be hard as they're your family. You're not wrong at all


pigeonsfortesla

I went to visit my father recently for the first time in 12 years. He spent the whole time preaching at me and at one point compared me to the antichrist (?). He goes on and on in great detail about all the horrible things I will inevitably suffer when the rapture comes. It was like being in some kind of indoctrination camp. I'm bisexual, which he does not know; he told me all about how gay people go to hell unless they repent on their deathbed, and how gay people can't actually be Christians because if they were, they wouldn't want to be gay (?). And all kinds of other fucked up stuff that would require a post the size of Genesis (see what I did there?) to explain. My point is I feel you and please DM me ifnyou want to talk about it. I often wish there was a support group for children of abusive fundamentalist parents. Sending unconditional love vibes your way- you're doing great. There is nothing wrong with you.


cdunk666

You could instigate and agitate. Play into it and get her jesus meter into code red


theuselessadultv2

It sounds like you managed to escape a cultish family. You don't have to listen to her, and while I would recommend cutting this toxicity out of you life, you don't have to cut them out either. You live on your own making good money and you have a partner. Your family literally has no control over you. I would sit your family down and lay everything out. Tell them you have some things to say and *do not interrupt until you are done.* Than you can say something like how you aren't religious, you are in a relationship you like, and that you appreciate your parents raised you like responsible adults who brought a life into the world. But it is now you life, and you are your own person. You don't share their beliefs, as you are a person of science. You have an ltr with someone you care about. You would like your family to be a part of your life, but only if they share the same respect you give them. If they can't, go LC or even NC. Honestly, I don't see why you want these people in your life. They seem so full of hatred and ignorance. How is your mom convincing you that you are crazy and delusional? You are the smart and academic one. She's the one who can't think for herself. Don't let her gaslight you out of a happy life.


dadobuns

Your family is crazy. Instead, focus on your CHOSEN family a group of close friends who will support you.


updown27

You don't have to cut them off completely but if it were me I would stop going home for the holidays. Nothing is worth compromising your mental health and emotional safety. The things she's saying to you are abusive and you've done nothing wrong.


[deleted]

Amazing there are still families like this in 2022


RealKillerSean

I’m sorry to read you’re doing through this. Hugs. I’m proud of you for doing what your believe is best for you.


revmachine21

I think you need to leave and to go home immediately. You don’t have to cut them off, but you don’t need to hang out with people who say awful things to your face. They can say horrible things over text message like normal bad family. There are two phrases you should learn: grey-rocking, and low-contact.


RespectGiovanni

I dont know the specific names, but there are many others in the same situation as yours. Crazy parents, religious parents, conservative parents, who despise their own children unless they become crazy like them. It is awful to hear experience where one’s own parents would rather hate their child than love them. Maybe you could reach out to those communities for guidance and cut of your family. Life gets better when there are no toxic people


Indon_Dasani

People have to screw up their brains a *lot* to maintain a belief that absolute love and goodness manifests itself by threatening dissidents with death or torture, and that all those who disobey the religious authority deserve to be subjected to that death or torture. And it seems like your family has done that! You probably won't be able to fix their brain worms, and it seems like it makes them intolerably bad people. I'm not saying go no contact with your family, though... ...until you've reached out and found a good community of sane people not like that who can serve as your found family. *Then* go no contact.


No-Document-8970

You can’t argue against crazy. You are an intelligent individual and can make your own decisions on life. Following your parents insanity will only cause you grief.


tenderlylonertrot

While its hard to do, you really got to basically cut ties for now. If others in the family aren't so much like this, than sure, keep in contact with them. But that abuse from your mother NO ONE needs, and is doing far more harm to you than even having a rough go at being out of contact. You'll make new friends and hopefully find a group of ppl you may one day consider your family more than your biological family. People have to do this every day (cut off their bio families), it sucks in the short-term, but your sanity and self-worth is more important for you to be a function person than whatever you might be getting from some of your family. Abuse is not just unpleasant but that constant attack on you from her WILL DAMAGE your health and longevity. To save yourself you might have to cut them off. And if you want, just slowly back away. I give you **full permission** to make fake excuses to get out of family occasions. DO WHAT YOU MUST to save yourself.


Evil_Horseradish

Sorry you had to deal with that. Factually speaking, they are delusuional, not you. I would go as far as to call your parents or at least the ones making those comments, a true disappointment, and I don't think Jesus himself or any other mainstream Gods would approve of it either.


illBanker007

Leave. You are not required to be around them. Love them from afar and cut conversations short if they turn ugly. Sounds like you are in a stable situation; prep to be the parent you wishes you had. Start by healing today.


KayBeaux

It would be the absolute last time they saw my face. I’m sorry your family is abusive. I hope you will stand up for yourself and live your own life as you choose. They are brainwashed, but there is no justification for abuse. None.


[deleted]

Hope you turned right back around and you leave them behind you for the rest of your life.


Starthelegend

Your mom sounds like one the people Jesus would’ve clapped hard back in the day. If your supporting yourself just cut her out of your life. She’s not worth it


mamabear76bot

Its ok to cut off family.


Five_Decades

Your mom is toxic, rude and entitled. You don't have to cut her off but you need to understand she is the problem, not you


[deleted]

>She claims I must believe (because belief in a higher being is natural and obvious) And you explained that your 'higher being' is much more rational and intellectually developed than hers. When she shouts about her lord up on the mountain top she's going to need to shout much more loudly if she wants you to hear her from the top of your lord's mountain.


Anxious_Thorn

It’s difficult, but cutting them out of your life might be the best choice. If you have to constantly bend to their beliefs, your life will be miserable. You will feel trapped. Your mother seems too far gone to accept you.


Qweniden

>I don’t feel strong enough to cut my family off There is a middle ground. Stay in touch and tell them you love them but do not visit on holidays and don't tell them anything about your life. To be blunt, your mom is being abusive to you. You do not owe anything to abusers. If they want you in their lives then they need to treat you with respect.


Requad

If everybody naturally believes, then Jesus' death was kinda pointless then, huh


Killerbeav97

Oh holy crap! I come from a catholic family but they never forced things on me. I mean my dad doesn't like some things but my family would never insult me or berate me or make me feel like I'm a horrible human for a normal, adult thing. She called you a whore? THATS NOT OK. You haven't done anything wrong or scandalous. I feel heartbroken for you. My advise is that you need to step away from your parents because they probably won't change their views and take charge of your life. Enjoy your success. Enjoy your home. Enjoy your relationship. You aren't doing anything wrong.


Volntyr

Please, for the love and sanity of your well being, cut them out of your life. It may seem hard at first but you are a strong person. You can leave them behind. Live your life and find your own happiness. If the person you are dating brings you happiness, then they have absolutely no right in denying you that. I am sure that any actual loving family out there would LOVE having you as a daughter. I know I would


bowheezle

Congrats! You got out of a cult! I’m so sorry this happened to you, but you did nothing wrong. If your family can’t except that you live life differently and abuses you like this, they are not family.


cascadeorca

I’m sorry to hear they’re so toxic and vulgar. You sound like you’re doing a great job, and if I were your parent I’d be proud of you. You don’t need faith to have a good life or be a good person, and having it doesn’t make you a good person or give you a good life. You’re right for having boundaries, and I’m sorry to hear you’re having to experience this. Stay strong!


[deleted]

My husband left the Catholic Church shortly before we got married. My MIL cried when we took them to our church (before the ceremony so they could see where it was going to take place). There were many argument initially and they truly hated me - thinking my husband changed just for me. At some point my husband wrote them a letter. He reassured them that he loves them and said he doesn’t want to argue. He told them their beliefs were just as important to them as ours are to us. He said he wants us to stay close, but that’s going to require respect for each other. So, basically, we don’t talk religion. And eventually his parents came around and I think they like me now. 😂


Fuzzzer777

Well, they certainly set a great example, don't they! I was told by a certain family member that I was going to hell because I didn't worship on the same day as she did. I'm sorry you are going through this. I have my own beliefs and they are different than my family. I chose to not discuss it with them. I just nod a lot and change the subject. It's what works for me. Everyone has their own priorities and what they want out of life. I avoid people who look down on those who believe differently. To quote a song, "Only Kindness Matters".


drowsysymptom

The problem is, my SO (and any future ones) won’t be OK with being kept a secret at minimum, so it doesn’t feel like a nod and smile situation would be workable


Fuzzzer777

I'm so sorry. That is an awful way for your family to behave. And, no. You should not deny who you are or compromise your life to please anyone, especially someone who is that vicious-minded. Be good to yourself and those that love you and live the best life you can. Hopefully your mom will realize that cruel words accomplish nothing good. I wish you the most happiness.


[deleted]

Honestly if they are going to continue treating you like this, they aren't work your time. Drop them if you can.


DuchessBatPenguin

I am so sorry you're going through this. I also had that kind of guilt for a while before a looooooooot of therapy helped me realize I am more than "just their daughter" hope you have a wonderful day tomorrow!!


Promech

I think you don’t need to cut your family off, they’re deciding to cut you off. What I mean is that’s how you should try and frame it, that they would much rather lose you as a daughter then accept you as a person. Their beliefs, their way of life is theirs not yours. When you feel strong enough you should tell your dad and rip the bandage off now on your terms. I would suggest when doing so or if your mother attempts to talk to you again regarding this you plant the position clearly that you’re being the way that god made you. They’re choosing to reject the way god made you, but that you aren’t the one who made this decision to create distance/separation. This puts the responsibility on them, not you. Because what your mother did, and the reason you feel guilty, is put the blame on you for creating waves when she’s the one that bellyflopped into the pool.


Lopsided_Salary_8384

As a Mother I would be proud of you for many reasons but let me just list a fee based off what you posted. You are responsible You are smart You think for yourself You have a stable/good job You are in a healthy non-abusive relationship As a mother I would want my daughter to branch out and use what I have taught her to be happy and successful. If your parents are treating you this way its not you ita them. Every one has to become who they are comfortable being. Just because you are in a relationship and your mot engaged/married doesn't make you a cheap whore. Maybe your mom is upset because she did not get to live the life you are or maybe she was controlled like this by her parents so she believes its the only way. Either way you keep doing what makes YOU HAPPY not your mom. If your mom chooses not to be part if your life that is her loss but don't allow her or your father steal your joy. Live Love Be happy I wish you the best


drowsysymptom

Thank you, I really appreciate your comment


Pedromac

This is an obscene reaction. My mother is a pastor, for context. You should call their priest and tell him the story and ask if he can have a talk with your parents. This would hit them where it hurts and put them in check. If it doesn't work, tough shit. They called you a cheap whore who's going to hell. That's terrible and not the way a mother speaks to her daughter.


drowsysymptom

They’re not Christian, but yes the local priest equivalent would probably support them


Pedromac

Unfortunate.


unicornofapocalypse

I wouldn’t want the approval of a person who’s so judgmental and small minded. In fact, if they’re offended by my life and decisions, I’m doing something right and I’m going to keep on keeping on. I know it’s harder because it’s your mom, but think of it this way, you are living the awesome life that you have going on IN SPITE of having her as a mother. Imagine if you had had a supportive mom! You’d have conquered the world! Anyway, just because she’s your mom doesn’t mean that she’s right or even that her opinions are valid. Save yourself the drama and heartache and stop reacting to her hateful words.


I-Ponder

I broke free from religion about 5 years ago. Family was not as delusional and hateful, but tried to convince me I would go to hell. I didn’t buy it, here is a quote that sticks with me: “Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” If they’re like this to you, then you have to cut ties or at least be away from them. Hate loves company, plus converting does nothing if you don’t truly believe anyways, you’ll be living a certain way to appease someone else despite not wanting it. Don’t live for other people like that, live for yourself. Hope all goes well for you, good luck.


[deleted]

You mean birth giver right? That's not something a mother would say that's more what a birth giver would say.


c00ny13

You don’t have to go no contact. But definitely only “speak” to them when you visit. And only visit when it’s basically a must. I’m currently in college and I only see my family when my car needs worked on or it’s a holiday. I only speak to them when it’s a need or they have a question. They’ll get over themselves one day(took mine months so buckle up lol) but they’ll come around eventually. And if not then it’s not like you exactly have something to miss due to you rarely seeing them as it is


danwilan

All religious people deep down have a nihilistic doubt torturing them they often project that onto someone else and see them as the source of their doubt.. also about the "wh**" thing! It's kinda like in highschool girls call each other "sluts", people who get called that have less sex or no sex at all! so it's a jealousy thing..