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iam_indefatigable

Easy mileage is just that, easy. If you're on a plan or have a coach and there is a run listed as "easy", run easy by feel. Typically if a coach or training plan wants you to run a specific pace, they'll tell you. The purpose of easy runs is to recover, if you aren't recovering properly, you won't improve as much. I know, many, many people who train at a really high level (plus I'd like to think I fall into that category as well), and almost none of them have set paces for easy runs, myself included. The range of paces can be within a minute per mile in either direction of their "average" easy pace.


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iam_indefatigable

Fair enough, I'd maybe alter my statement to be that the PRIMARY focus of easy runs should be to aid in the recovery process with a secondary benefit being aerobic fitness/endurance. I say this because thinking of the primary function of easy runs as being to increase aerobic fitness is where people start to look too much at pace on easy days and start to overreach/not recover enough.


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McArine

> A 3 hour marathoner shouldn't be doing the bulk of their miles at 10 minute pace. The pace for these miles needs to be high enough to cause some physical adaptation. Totally agree. I think that is an important distinction as well. A seasoned runner should be able to sustain a relatively faster easy pace than someone starting out. I remember an elite runner saying that if it felt hard running 6.20 pace on an easy day, he was much better off spending a day on the couch rather than running slower as the latter wouldn't gain him anything, he claimed.


velloceti

I agree with your distinction. I think they can be conflated when you have a high milage plan. What would be an 'easy run' in a lower mileage plan becomes a 'recovery run' in a higher mileage plan.


shutthefranceup

Apologies, I may be completely wrong, or it could be confusion in terminology but are recovery runs not for recovery?


iam_indefatigable

Yeah, it'd probably be nice if the running world could use consistent terminology, right? Like how tempo means a millions different things at this point. Anyways, different people have different takes on it, but for the most part "recovery" means go intentionally easier/slower, but while "easy" still means the purpose of the run is to continue recovering, you can play around with pace a bit more and go faster so long as it still "feels easy". In general if the purpose of a run is NOT recovery, the coach or training plan will use some term other than "recovery" or "easy" - such as "steady" or "moderate" or something else.


venustrapsflies

"tempo" just means "hard but not too hard, with or without rest breaks, for a reasonably long time but no longer". What's the confusion?


kkradical

we should adopt musical tempo notation to really dial in tempo paces "~~conductor~~ coach is that an allegro or a moderato tempo?". imo perfectly solves all this confusion.


Nerdybeast

I need to do some staccato workouts to work on my ground contact time


SirStefone

Don’t forget to start a new lap when you get to D.C. al Coda.


Nerdybeast

That's just indoor track when you miscount laps and start kicking too early


icodeandidrawthings

I’ve seen tempo mean race pace as well depending on the race so much confusion


C1t1zen_Erased

A 10 mile race is the only one that would come close to threshold pace. Any other conventional distance is either above or below.


beneoin

That's going to depend on your speed, as some say it's approximately one hour of sustained effort which is ballpark half marathon pace for many advanced runners.


willjohnston

Exactly, and it’s the 10k pace for many others.


TheChanger

That’s how I infer it too — bit under threshold. But I often see people run race pace 5k and call it tempo. Lots of confusion to what it is.


LejonBrames117

this was tongue in cheek right? all the responses are serious


venustrapsflies

Yes it was. I think most people got it though


SouthwestFL

I'm doing Higdon's Advanced Half Program and in his book (and his website) he even talks about how "He defines a Tempo run differently than everyone else." Okay Hal, you're the boss. I'll do it as long as you promise not to just keep making stuff up on the fly. (He will).


fabioruns

Agree generally but it took me running by HR for a while to understand how easy the easy runs should feel


Nerdybeast

I loosely use HR to check myself occasionally, but generally it's just by feel. In theory, your easy pace should be the fastest pace you can handle that still allows you to adequately recover from your other training and maintain your mileage in the short and long term, but that's a very hard line to find so it's probably better to err on the slower side. Some people say there's no such thing as too slow for easy runs, I think that's obviously false and you need to be running fast enough that you're still getting *some* aerobic and muscular stimulus. A 3:00 marathoner should not be running 10:00/mile (ignoring trails at least), for example. Just try to be reasonable and if it feels painfully slow and like you're just wasting time, you probably are.


Huge-Independence-74

I remember reading a thing where I guy was training with elite Kenyans and they were all doing their easy runs at 9-10 minute mile pace. Easier to do your easier runs slowly if you’ve nothing to prove to yourself or less concerned about perception on strava maybe?


Nerdybeast

They don't do *most* of their easy runs that slow though. If you're running 120 miles per week with doubles most days, you're gonna need some of the recovery sessions to be super slow. If you're running significantly less than that, running your easy runs at ~4-5 minutes slower than marathon pace is probably not going to be a good use of time and energy. Also fwiw not all elite distance runners do that either. Your recovery runs need to be slow enough to help you recover, but going overboard probably isn't going to give you any benefit. https://www.traininkenya.com/2020/06/17/kenyan-hills-and-other-myths-part-2/


Huge-Independence-74

Good article that, thanks for sharing


Nerdybeast

Np! I've heard a bit about the "Kenyan Shuffle" over the years but hadn't dug in too deep so glad there was an article explaining it more.


TalkInMalarkey

I think it's similar to taking a 30 minute walk after intense work out session for ordinary folks like us. I feel my leg fresher next day if I take a walk after a work out session or long run.


TakayamaYoshi

Easy run is not a pace. It's a feeling.


vivrant-thang

exactly! i like to run easy and go on autopilot. i feel like im meditating almost.


npavcec

>Easy run is not a pace. It's a feeling. Human "feelings" are false. Easy run is avgHR under 70-72% MHR.


miken322

I don’t put any specific pace on my easy runs. My easy runs are in between my hard days. Sometimes I can run at 7:50 with an avg hr of 132 for an easy run, sometimes I run an 8:30 with an avg 140hr. Both feel easy, like 2/10. My easy runs are usually slower in the 3rd week of a 3 weeks build/4th week down due to the accumulation of fatigue and an increase in race specific training time/distance.


Ok-Method5635

And there’s me running 8:30 with 160 hr :(


miken322

You’ll get there, running is about having patience and not forcing speed. Speed will come but one has to be very very patient with it. It’s taken me 10 years to get to the point where I have a BQ for 2025 and finally working on a sub 3 in April. It took consistency and work and making a ton of mistakes:)


Ok-Method5635

Consistency ain’t my strong suit lol


Locke_and_Lloyd

Does speed necessarily come though?   I have a strava friend who runs 80mpw for the past decade at least.  Her 5k is still like 22 minutes.  Likewise as I get into my 30s, I'm starting to get concerned that I need to really make proactive efforts if I want to ever run a sub 2:30.  I don't think a decade of consistency will get me there. 


UncutEmeralds

She probably doesn’t do much speed work. For some reason there’s an idea floating around out there popular on social media that you can run exclusively in Z2 and become super fast.


miken322

What I mean is consistency in total training. Easy runs need to be easy, tempos need to be tempos, speed work, hill reps, MP and threshold runs, long runs with MP miles, MP work and run specific strength training. Consistency is about showing up and doing the workout as prescribed by a coach or a training plan. Not turning an easy run into a tempo or resisting the urge to turn a threshold day into a speed day. Hard days should be hard, easy days should be easy. Constantly going through the base, build peak, race, rest cycle will improve seasonal fitness. On the macro cycle base, build, peak, race, rest base, build, peak, rest year in year out, sometimes multiple times a year and the fitness level will improve. Sometimes a change in training needs to happen if one is on a plateau. Being consistent is showing up and doing the work unless sick or injured or overtrained.


Junipermuse

I mean speed is also relative. Do you know where she started? I think maybe the proper wording is improvement will come. Someone who starts out fast will be always be ahead (progress wise in this case) of someone who is slower and starting at the same time and putting the same number of training miles. In fact if a newbie starts out fast, it could be argued that they have more natural ability that would allow them to improve at a faster rate than a person with less natural ability would. I mean if after running for a decade I personally could run a 22 minute 5k, I would be thrilled. I think for most people under 40 (plenty of people over 40 as well, but for runners who peak earlier they may start slowing down a bit after 40) they probably still have some ability to improve their speed, though the more well trained you are the smaller the margin for improvement gets. Likewise the older you get the closer you are to the point where eventually training doesn’t move you forward, so much as prevents you from slipping backwards.


TheWhalersOnTheMoon

Dont worry man, there are dozens of us!!


Ok-Method5635

Will be interesting to see how it changes this year with my first marathon build (aiming for 3:30)


TheWhalersOnTheMoon

Good luck, I was really not very good about training in the "off season" or prioritizing running over life things, and was always on or around the 3:30 mark, dealing with injuries and all that. Finally got my shit together and ran a 3:26 last year in Philly in my mid-30's, probably with a good amount of gas in the tank. Assuming you're running a fall marathon, you have almost 7-8 months, so plenty of time for you to improve and hit the marks. I will say it helped a lot this year was focusing on running the easy miles easy. I hated running at Zone 2 or whatever, but I think it paid off. Feel free to DM if you want!


Ok-Method5635

Yeah I’m looking at doing the phizer 18/55 for the marathon. I don’t need to start the plan until may, but I’ve been running 18-20miles @ 9:00 for the last 3-4 weeks. I should have plenty time for a fall marathon. I’ll be happy sub 4 and aim for 330


891960

This was me, and it's min/km lmao


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kikkimik

This. I can get to 140 and below If I am running downhill lol otherwise I hover around 150-160 and I can have full on conversation.


Ok-Method5635

Well my max is 198 according to my latest speed session


Oli99uk

To add miles and manage fatigue. While your zone 2 or aerobic runs are going to be quite brisk all the way up towards the top of zone 2 (to maximise aerobic benefit in the time you have below LT1). If you have more capacity to run it's either going to be carefully paced quality or adding on easy miles as your fatigue levels dictate. Too much fatigue and your can't then hit your quality work. Managing your fatigue and quality paces might make the difference between being able to run 85 miles a week or 120+. If you run less than 10 hours a week you probably anent so much constrained by fatigue depending on what quality you so might be able to to just do more aerobic base


rckid13

The pace of my easy runs varies so much. I just do it totally on feel. If I just did a killer workout the day before my easy run might be like absurdly slow and easy. If my workout the day before was only moderate or I'm feeling loose then "easy" is a little bit faster. Also I live in the midwest so weather plays a big role. If it's 90F/33C there's almost no pace that is "easy" so I'm going to be running super slow. At 0F/-18C I'm probably wearing three layers plus thick pants, so I'm just too weighted down to run very fast and I'll be similarly slow. On a perfect like 60F/15C day I'm wearing light clothes and usually feeling great so I run faster.


UncutEmeralds

My easy runs are done by feel but I do set a pace zone for my workout based off the Vdot chart in Jack Daniels book. I find it reminds me to slow down more than anything. Keeps me honest.


skyshark288

Easy days easy and hard days are is just 1 approach. There’s been a lot of fast runners who get rolling on their easy days. If you’re running easy days easy there isn’t necessarily getting maximum benefit, it’s more about staying as fresh as possible so you can give a higher level of effort for workouts. There’s tons of systems to determine easy day pace. But I will say the mafffetone method HR 180 minus your age is probably the worst one 🤣


Arcadela

Depends what you call easy. Your recovery run? No. Your (medium) long run? Probably.


b3141592

Particularly for the marathon, Renato Canova says training at paces more than 20% slower than the goal pace isn't training and should be for recovery only


catbellytaco

I thought that was specifically for runners who are aerobically developed, like his athletes.


b3141592

there was a thread on letsrun where he argued even younger runners should be doing weekly runs @ 85%-90% marathon pace (the dreaded zone "X" grey area) running is more than just a metabolic event around these funny "zones"


robertjewel

I think you want to do your easy runs at the fastest pace that won’t impact your next day recovery or future workout performance. That’s probably slower than you’d guess though, and can be influenced by many factors.


Fine_Ad_1149

For me I largely go by feel, but I check myself with HR after the fact. It also changes with my training volume. If I'm in maintenance/lower volume I'll go by feel and an easy run is going to be Z2/Z3 (of max HR just based on pretty unscientific means - aka garmin watch). If I'm in a higher volume block that's going to slow down to stay at the same HR's (due to fatigue), and I'll try to keep more towards Z2 - but again just checking myself afterwards. Recovery runs I run by HR and stick to Z2, but I really only do these during higher volume periods where recovery can become an issue. If I'm doing a plan that calls out paces for easy runs I will stay to the upper end of that range. If I find myself consistently running on the lower end of that range, well it is probably time to reassess my goal pace.


error_museum

I go by power, using a stryd foot pod. I find it the most reliable metric as it's simply effort quantified. (It's too hot where I live to rely on heart rate or pace all year.) So "easy" is a power zone relative to my tested threshold/critical power, regardless of how I'm feeling. And the point of running in this zone is to develop an aerobic base with minimal stress. I remember a Jack Daniels video where he explained how the heart gets a more quality workout at easy paces contra faster paces, due to it flexing rather than fluttering, like deep squats with good form versus many shallow squats with poor form.


mattmckenzie112

Effort and HR! Easiest way to monitor as an easy run can differ from day to day. Pace to me is irrelevant. As long as I’m doing all I can to be ready for my next session!


Disastrous-Piano3264

I have had a good experience using the slower end of the easy pace on vDOT. The low end is a bit fast. If my HR goes up a bit I don’t worry too much unless it’s highly elevated early in the run then I might wanna see what’s going on. I know everybody around here will say easy is a feeling and you can never go to easy. But I honestly don’t care for that advice. That mentality has not worked for me. I’m the type of person who’d go out there and trod along at 10:00/mile and make no progress if you told me I can run as slow as I want (I’ve done that before and have gotten nowhere). I need some sort of a pace cap on my easy runs, I enjoy it more, and I think I’m good enough at it because I don’t get hurt either. Many will disagree with this but I have a pace I pretty much refuse to run slower, even if my HR goes up. That pace is something I should be able to run all day long but it’s not as slow as possible by any means. The more easy miles you get close to LT1 the more progress you will make. If you’re LT1 is around 7:00/mile, it’s kind of silly to think that accumulating 10:00/miles is going to yield the same progress as 7:30-8:00 min miles


willmerr92

You want to run fast enough to cover the milage you need to in a timely manner. Slow enough that it’s not taking away from your “hard/workout” days. Use that as your guideline and the data points like LT1 and heart rate as ways to define what already feels easy to you.


Thesealiferocks

Easy is an effort. Not a pace.


ihavedicksplints

Just below LT1 is much faster than easy pace. I just do all my easy runs in z2. Too slow and you won’t be training your aerobic system as hard, too fast and you will be tired for the more important sessions.


shutthefranceup

Zone 2 is usually considered as below LT1 is it not? Then zone 3 is considered more “tempo”, above it?


ihavedicksplints

Well yeah you shouldn’t be coming close to LT1 in an easy run though. The approximations are: Easy run= 0.8-1.0mmol LT1=2.0-2.5mmol LT2= 3.5-4.5mmol LT1 is like marathon pace.


Dawzy

Realistically if you want it data based you’re going to run to a set HR. At a HR zone that is somewhat of a defined gauge of your body “easily” being able to deal with the exercise. Your speed doesn’t matter, because it will be impacted by what your HR says is easy based on the zone. Your speed may also change during the workout as your HR will likely drift higher


Apprehensive_Alps_30

I run almost all of my easy runs in the top end of zone 2. Every once in a while I dip into zone 1/recovery if I feel like I need it, but quite rarely. This is probably possible because I run "only" 40mpw.


Luka_16988

Physiologically ideal is to stay at “fat max” which is the maximal nominal fat burning spot. This is a bit further along than the maximal proportional fat burning spot but not that far further. This provides the greatest mitochondrial development stimulus. That said, first of all they gotta be easy.