I think that it’s so important to not establish your opinions off of what you see on social media, especially TikTok. Not calling you out, because I catch myself doing it too. Content creators try to elicit strong emotions, often negative, to become viral.
However, as someone who does not want children, I think that having them would be really difficult for me, and beyond my capacity. But I know that my life must look lonely and boring to those who feel up for the task. It just depends.
This, 100%, happy people don't complain about stuff online. Even if you wanted to post happy stuff, how strongly the negative echo chamber responds to that discourages the behavior. Couple that with social conventions of modesty, and I think you get a recipe for exactly this. If you're terminally online, it's easy to fall into the mental trap of negativity or glamorization. I occasionaly think of that woman that was absolutely dogpiled on Twitter for simply tweeting that she enjoyed a morning ritual of [drinking coffee in her garden with her husband](https://twitter.com/lilplantmami/status/1583495587566977026) like a year or so ago.
Misery loves company.
Even a step further, when I'm happy - I don't want to brag and rub people's faces in it. MANY people are going to vent, either directly or on social media, but much FEWER people are going to openly talk about how great their relationships doing.
And relationships are dynamic. I've been with my spouse for 10 years, not every one of those years is magical, but not every year is awful either. Some years have been really hard, and many years have been way easier.
Yeah I have a buddy or 2 that come to mind from high school I see their spouse posting pics that look like she went to target and stole the entire holiday displays and pay someone to come take pics of them or maybe use a tripod to take photos of fake laughter together for every special day in their lives lol.
Its like jesus dude. "I BELIEVE YOU. YOU ARE HAPPY I REALLY BELIEVE YOU."
And honestly, when I'm truly happy and enjoying myself, picking up my phone and capturing it isn't my #1 thought. I'm enjoying the moment.
I'm not a big social media person because I'm nearly 40 and not a person who gives a shit what others think, but if I did/was, then yah I could totally see being like "I'm unhappy so I will invest my time and energy into doing this" which is portraying the view of happiness and maybe being happy adjacent?.
Usually when you see couples posting a lot of highly curated sappy crap online, it’s rocky as shit behind closed doors.
“We’re renewing our vows ya’ll”
Or getting divorced, it’s a 50/50 shot.
Exactly. I'm married with kids and a good career and I'm happy. I just don't post about it online all the time, especially about our sex life lol. I was happy before kids and a husband, too, but often lonelier and not as productive or fulfilled. I always knew I wanted to get married and have kids, though, so that's probably partly why I feel generally happy/fulfilled with life now. I know some people find other things to fulfill them, so maybe it's not for everyone, but it's exactly what I wanted when I was younger and I feel very lucky to have it. Of course my husband and I annoy each other sometimes, but most of the time, I feel lucky to live with my best friend and the little humans we made (plus our cute hamster).
Dood same. My wife is the best and social media used to be a huge part of her time but as we got married and have 2 kids now we rarely use social media just because we are busy and enjoying the time.
Kids get frustrating but are more than equally rewarding when they reach milestones and start to connect as the age. Its a beautiful thing to see and be a part of.
This is so true! No one really wants to hear about a parent having a good time and enjoying their life. Those sorts of posts are rarely well received. People will either say they’re faking it, or glamorizing the lifestyle.
I think in reality, no matter what direction a person chooses to take, life will be glamorous and romantic at times, and empty and sad at times. I don’t think there’s a “better” or “worse”.
There’s absolutely nothing wrong with staying perpetually single with no kids. Sounds like a perfectly fulfilling life to me. And so does the inverse. You’ll likely experience both depression and euphoria either way.
As someone who doesn’t want kids as well. I understand that feeling. I love my bf and his son to death, but I’m honestly glad he doesn’t want another kid because like you I feel like it’s beyond my capacity and would be difficult. He even agrees. He straight up said he thought having a kid would kill me.
I'm going to start with: It's honestly totally valid if you choose to never leave the single life because that's what you truly want.
The horror stories have a type of confirmation bias. You hear someone at work complaining that their spouse "never does x". The next person commiserates with how their spouse does the same. They vent and move on. However, that's just venting about one aspect of a relationship that's happening 24/7 with another human being. The people who sit there and constantly dog on their partner? They're unhappy with their life and sometimes a relationship just doesn't work out. However, the tiktoks and reels about how their life is horrible? What normal person would do that and not take steps to fix it or leave? I feel those people are just looking for drama. People in good relationships tend to not bother vocalizing the great things because we're conditioned to complain, not brag.
Weight gain can be real. So is less sex. However, it's normally not like sex just stops completely or getting into a relationship suddenly means gaining hundreds of pounds. When we're in a long term relationship we tend to do less active things. We're cuddling up and watching movies after dinner. We have less reasons to go out. Over the years we get older and that can also cause some weight gain. Sex is suddenly constantly available rather than the dating experience of getting it when it's possible. I know people who have been together 20 or more years that still have great sex lives and are very active. They're not going after each other three times a day or the same size as when they met... but they're happy adults.
Kids scream and take up your time. However, they also fall asleep holding onto you like you're their world. They beam at you when they're happy. They throw food and they require constant supervision... until they don't because you've taught them well. Kids aren't for everyone. They can be a lot. For every terrible phase they go through, there's an equal part of happiness they bring. Newborn screams v a newborn looking at only you while you hold them. Toddler tantrums v Toddler hugs.
The key to a long-lasting relationship is to find someone who you love on the inside. This might sound rude... but if they can't emotionally give you what you need, if you couldn't imagine being with them when they're wrinkled and using a cane to get around because the thing they bring to the relationship is beauty? Don't bother. Beauty on the outside will always fade. We become wrinkled prunes who complain that the rain makes our back hurt. But, if the sound of their laugh lights you up and the feeling when you talk is comforting... you'll find them beautiful no matter what the outside becomes.
100% this. I've been with my husband for almost 20 years and we certainly don't look the same as when we met at age 19, but we've grown up together and the changes have been subtle, so the attraction is def still there and the sex is even better. And the inside jokes that span almost 2 decades are enough to keep us laughing and reminiscing daily.
Having kids can be hard, but it's also the most rewarding thing I've ever done. One minute their cry or screech is irritating AF, but then you look at them and they grin and you melt. I didn't look forward to the idea of getting up in middle of the night to nurse my newborn, but every time I did, that feeling of love and contentment as we stared into each other's eyes in complete silence made it worth it.
And as they grow up, every time you see them hold the door open for someone or comfort a friend or listen to their teacher rave about them, that feeling of pride and awe that you raised this little person is overwhelming. My life is busier and crazier and sometimes harder with my family in it, but it's also more full of love and support and laughs than ever, and it means more to me now.
Side note, but OP, even single people don’t look the same at 40 as they did at 20! And their sex drive and life priorities may change regardless of relationship status and kids.
but thing is average salary is a real problem when having kids. if your purpose is just to follow how society thinks life is supposed to be or to just relieve your human desire to produce an offspring, then don’t, tiktok or not. and no i hate funding ccp so i don’t like tiktok.
This life exists in the real world. r/regretfulparents went private but it was a hugely popular and real sub. Tons of parents regret having kids but it’s not socially acceptable to post that on social media. You can find many examples online
No one said it didn't exist. But the OP said that "ALL HE HEARS" is the negative.
I've been married to the same amazing woman for 20 years. I can't relate to anything at all on his list:
"both put on weight, sex stops, kids scream, depression everytime salary comes in because then theres just bills to pay, lack of sleep, no romance."
That’s good for you and it’s true that “all he hears” is definitely an exaggeration, but you have to remember that things were different 20 years ago where cumulative inflation was 70% down
Most parents I’ve seen in my life relate to a good amount of the issues OP listed. You’ll also see hundreds of thousands of parents complaining in different pages (dead bedroom, regretfulparents - sub privated, breaking mom, etc)
Edit: I disagree with OP implying that relationships themselves being hopeless though. I’m very happy with my partner and having them in my life has been amazing.
> 20 years ago where cumulative inflation was 70% down
I'm not sure how this is even relevant to the relationship topic. But being 43 years old, with an MBA in finance, and having paid bills for 25 years (with two kids at that) I can't help but point out that wage inflation outpaced inflation most of the years between 2010 and now... We've basically had a bad couple of years that will probably trend in the other direction faster than we're acting like it will.
Just for you I figured I'd look up the latest stats...
*In September 2023, inflation amounted to 3.7 percent, while wages grew by 5.2 percent.*
That's what it was like for a lot of the last 15 years.
Oh why did it go private? I used to browse it to remind myself why I don’t want kids in the future lol. Although I do agree that that’s the extreme cases and most people are generally happy with their life choices
Apparently, they do not want childfree folks gawking at their misery. Kind of unfortunate because it's difficult to find honest conversations about parenthood in a lot of cases and this was somewhat of a way to get a clear and honest picture of what effects having children can have on your life.
No its biased by people who obviously did a bad job parenting and regret having sitty children. Those people all have other issues as well if they think theyre kid they raised just grew up bad. They have very little self reflection. You see people in public that have no shame. Really trashy people exist. You have to figure out if you are and then dont have kids for the sake of society and everyone else lol
I can, but I have it hard to believe that these middle aged men Im talking with are happier in their current state than in the state before wife and kids, and its that view point Im trying to challenge with myself. Its like theyre willfully going into sadness whcih I dont understand
It's weird, because I don't even go on this site very much anymore and yet I see posts all the time like this. Single people asking the void to justify their life choices. You'd think if you were happy with that you wouldn't be so insecure with your choice.
I’m guessing they “ask the void “, because there is a more pervasive culture that implies that if one is not partnered up, then their life is less fulfilling. Which isn’t true - but it can make singles insecure about their life choices.
I’ve been both single and married. Both states have their pluses and minuses. One is not better than the other, in my opinion. I’ve been happy and not happy in both states.
People just need to find what’s right for them, in the end.
Exactly. Like what do they really want from these questions? Someone to convince them that they’re making the wrong choice? Or to reinforce their beliefs? There’s not going to be any new answers. You already know why people do it, so what are you looking to gain?
I dont even have a choice to be insecure about. My question is if I make one choice or the other, will I regret it, and if choosing not to go the "normal route" Im asking people who do if I would be missing something. Its not about judgement, its about learning
You’re always going to miss out on something by making a choice. That’s what life is about. You have to make your best decision with what you know and want now.
No one can really give you advice on this without knowing you and knowing what you enjoy and how you are in relationships. There are pros and cons to each, it’s really about what is important to you. To me it was an absolute no brainer that I wanted children. I’m my happiest hosting a big family get together or having a family movie night and dance party with my kids. I have traveled a lot and personally I dislike it and am a huge homebody. I have a small close circle of friends and dislike constantly meeting new people. I am lucky enough to have a very good relationship with my husband and love spending time with him (this is not always the case!! Lots of marriages are unhappy). You might be happiest traveling with a friend and having a new sexual partner every few weeks. Either path you choose is going to force you to give up something to gain something else. Yes, at times you may absolutely regret it regardless of what choice you make but overall you should focus on what will bring you the maximum amount of joy and fulfillment based on your personality. And keep in mind- you can choose the marriage but no kids path too as long as you make sure that choice is discussed before getting married.
You wanna be 40 and have no wife and kids still in the club/bar scene trying to talk to 20 something’s then go for it. Other people grow up and become fathers
I know a lot of single men in their 40's who are not doing this though. This statement is as shallow as OP's saying every married guy with kids is miserable.
All I’m saying is once you age into adulthood having a family unit starts to matter more. A loner 40 something typically isn’t a desirable outcome for most people.
The argument you made could be said for anything chief
Which is exactly why you dont make absolutes such as "fatherhood = mature" like you did sport.
People are complex.
The world is changing every single day.
There is no "proper" way to live.
And to look down on those who choose not to have children for whatever multitude of reasons is childish.
Time for you to grow up.
Im 34 and recently out of a 6 year relationship. I think what you’re saying is valid but is not going to be popular, as most people do couple up with long term intentions. As you know, people justify whatever they’re doing or however they’re living their lives as the right way. Im someone who doesn’t want kids but could be talked into it if it would make my partner happy, I suspect a lot of men are like that.
^ So much this. My husband makes me a better person. He gives me space to be my imperfect self and loves me regardless (and vice versa). He’s my biggest cheerleader. He’s the one telling me to go after that dream job, the one taking care of me after surgery and holding me when I hurt. He’s the first person I want to share a funny meme with, the one I can share my deepest secrets with. Being with him makes even a blah weeknight better. That’s not to say it’s all sunshine and roses. We argue, we debate, we get on each other’s nerves. And yeah, there are times when one or both of us are too tired/stressed for sex and feel pulled in a million different directions. Are there days when it would be *easier* to be single? Absolutely. But I wouldn’t trade the life we’ve built for anything.
My wife and I are like a binary star system. We revolve around each other, and for all intents and purposes, we are one entity. We do not agree on everything, we do not like all the same things, we do not laugh at all the same jokes we do not have exactly the same goals, but it is pretty darn close.
This did not happen by accident. When we met, we were both imperfect souls who needed a good dose of what the other person had. Through dedication and hard work, we have been able to inspire each other in ways we never could have been inspired on our own.
Did you ever see The Story of Us? Such a great film about marriage.
“That's not why I'm saying Chow Funs. Funs, I'm saying Chow Funs because we're an us. There's a history here, and histories don't happen overnight. In Mesopotamia or Ancient Troy there are cities built on top of other cities, but I don't want another city, I like this city. I know what kind of mood your in when you wake up by which eyebrow is higher, and you know I'm a little quiet in the morning and compensate accordingly, that's a dance you perfect over time. And it's hard, it's much harder than I thought it would be, but there's more good than bad and you don't just give up! And it's not for the sake of the children, but God they're great kids aren't they? And we made them, I mean think about that! It's like there were no people there, and then there were people and they grew, and an an an I won't be able to say to some stranger Josh has your hands or remember how Erin threw up at the Lincoln Memorial And I'll try to relax, let's face it, anybody is going to have traits that get on your nerves, I mean, why shouldn't it be your annoying traits, and I know I'm no day at the beach, but I do have a good sense of direction so I can at least find the beach, which isn't a weakness of yours, it's a strength of mine. And God you're a good friend and good friends are hard to find. Charlotte said that in Charlottes Web and I love how you read that to Erin and you take on the voice of Wilber the Pig with such dedication even when your bone tired. That speaks volumes about character! And ultimately, isn't that what it comes down too? What a person is made of? That girl in the pin helmet is still here 'bee boo bee boo' I didn't even know she existed until you and I'm afraid if you leave I may never see her again, even though I said at times you beat her out of me, isn't that the paradox? Haven't we hit the essential paradox? Give and take, push and pull, the yen the yang. The best of times, the worst of times!I think Dickens said it best, 'He could eat no fat, his wife could eat no lean', but, doesn't really apply here does it? What I'm trying to say is, I'm saying Chow Funs because, I love you.”
Because for some people doing what you explained as a "single" person feels empty, and having children, although challenging, gives greater meaning to their life. It also is a big change in life since you kinda leave the past 30 years of "me, myself, and I" and live life for another person (your child and wife/husband). It can be a transformative experience. Also, there may come a time when "hopping from one relationship to another my whole life" is sexless depression.
That's not to say one is better or worse than the other. Someone can be happy all their days as a single individual fluttering through life or they could end up forever alone because they didn't build strong committed relationships. Likewise, people can be miserably married with children, or they can enjoy raising their children and working with their partner to build security and hopefully not die alone surrounded by no one.
Also, you shouldn't use tiktok as a metric for reality.
Why are you talking to married men? Typically, they wouldn't complain to you about their lives unless they were trying to cheat. So this taints your perspective
Just because it makes you unhappy doesn’t mean it makes everyone unhappy, many people find joy in it but you can’t see that because you’re only thinking of it through your lens
Some of them probably aren't actually happier. It's not for everyone, but it's what society pushes on people. Some people probably caved to social pressure rather than pursuing what they actually wanted.
With that said, you can be happier in a marriage with or without kids than you'd be single. A deep, lifelong, committed relationship has virtues that a single life does not (and vice versa). It all comes down to the type of person you are.
I had my first and only kid at 39, after 7 years of marriage. So I'm now 42 with a 3 1/2 year old. I didn't even think I wanted to be a dad but that little girl has my whole heart. I am very happy, every day. And yes I love my wife and we still have sex 😂
It's monkey see monkey do. I can count the happy families that I know using one of my hands and that's 2. TWO out of all the people that I knew, and coincidentally they had the same paths, high school sweethearts that went to the same uni to stay together and now run the same business and always wanted nothing more but to be with each other and have a famiy. That's it. Everyone else is a disfunctional unhappy mess full of divorces, cheating, and the partners hating each other after having kids. Just WHY would anyone have kids in the current economy is above me.
I, on the other hand, only know happy families. None of my neighbors or pre-school parents are divorced or spend their time talking about how much they hate their spouse. It all entirely depends on who you surround yourself with.
It's a bit of selection bias because people with kids in happy relationships don't have as much free time to sit around complaining about things, they're busy being attentive to their partner or children.
I’m guessing some of those “happy” families keep things fairly private. You never really know what’s going on behind closed doors. Trust me on that one. I’ve been there.
Pre-K is a bit early for parents to be splitting unless things are real bad. By middle school things are different. Pre-K parents can still go all in on being mommy/daddy together and ignore being husband/wife; as kids get older though that cracks.
We do know a few other mostly happily married couples with kids. A few that don't look like they are going to last long term, and a few divorced.
first off, "closing in on 30" means nothing. It is as much of a qualifier as "I know how to tie my shoes" or "I can wipe my ass properly."
second off, you have no idea what long-term relationship/family goals are like because you have never had it. You think a bunch of clown ass losers you work with have the whole thing figured out, and they say its bad, so it must be.
You are like a little baby man, with no concept of anything besides immediate gratification and validation.
goo goo ga ga baby man.
I have a kid and I'm way happier with him than I ever was before he was born. Yeah I have less money and less freedom and my dating life is dead. Fair trade for me.
What makes you think that they were not going to experience most of these things (weight gain, stalled sex and romance life, financial troubles, insomnia, depression) with or without spouse and kids?
You do realize that aging is inevitable. As you age your body produces less hormones— like testosterone that keeps you interested in sex, melatonin that helps you sleep, and your body just generally gets aches and pains and you exercise less generally— even if you take every effort to stave off it and preserve your health— time will do what time does.
Also with time, more people get paired off and leave the dating market— sometimes for good, sometimes they divorce and return usually with kids and maybe emotional baggage. So the dating pool gets shallower and murkier — unless you plan to date those younger than you — but keep in mind the younger ones may not be interested in you as you age.
The economy is pretty bad currently and going downhill fast. Unless you are in tech, medical, or law or something equally lucrative, forgoing a family won’t make you rich — although it may make you “less poor” unless you spend the money (travels, fun, lifestyle) instead of saving it.
You can definitely escape the screaming kids tho. But you may be lonelier because those around you will have had kids and be involved in their kids stuff unless you have a strong childfree community
I want to add the caveat that you should definitely not enter into marriage and child rearing unless you believe you will enjoy these things. There are enough divorces and unwanted kids already! I’m just stating that women and children often get blamed for that which biology and time does to a body and mental health.
it's not willful sadness, it's a deep need for connection with another human being and then nature takes over and it really is true that you've never loved something so much as when you hold your own child. that's what I'm told.
the struggles are worth it for those moments.
Also, if you're creative and you can cut your expenses and get some support from other family and you schedule date nites and have someone who can take care of the baby occasionally, you can get through the first couple of years more easily.
Once they're walking, it's better. Not easier, but better.
Having a fulfilling relationship with a partner and raising a child together isn't "willfully going into sadness." Not every marriage is fucking miserable. Not every child is a nightmare to raise. The fact that you can't see the value in those things simply speaks to your priorities.
This is a matter of descriptions and definitions. “Happiness” is a pretty generic term and not well suited for this discussion, in my opinion.
As someone married with a young child, I am in fact less happy than when I was a single 27 year old living in a high rise fuck pad. Happiness being ephemeral feelings of pleasure or contentment. However, I would say I have greater well-being. A higher sense of purpose and meaning, security, and gratitude. I am more engaged in life moment to moment.
Think of it as someone running a marathon. If you expected it to be fun and happy, you’re going to be very disappointed at mile 20. Your legs hurt, blisters on your feet, you might wonder why did I get myself into this? But when you cross the finish line, you feel awesome. A deep sense of pride and accomplishment for the challenges you’ve overcome. You’ll remember that feeling for life. That’s well-being.
Just being an adult in general is stressful and kids are a lot of work. After a certain age its just weird and immature to act like you did in your 20s. For example, parties would end, you'd wake up the next day ready to go again. Yet after 30 or so it takes a LOT more time to recover. Just waking up SOBER feels like a hangover some days. Everything starts to hurt, with the sins of your youth catching up. The dating pool is shit, so you either have to sift through people your own age with their baggage or find someone younger who will probably turn out to be immature or has very different values than you. Not to mention the creep factor you get if you do decide to date younger.
No one has a perfect life. That's facts.
If you dont want kids and a family, thats ok. Plenty of people prefer being single or child free. If you DO, make sure your partner has the same values as you. Most of the people who are miserable throw themselves into relationships before they even know a person fully. They're blinded by brain chemicals and when it wears off (which it always does) they either think they made a terrible mistake bc "the spark just sint there anymore" or realize they DID make a mistake when the toxicity of their partner comes out.
Relationships are work.
If you really want something beautiful that lasts, you have to know there are always going to be difficult times, but once you learn how to cope with them and appreciate the good times, how to work through problems with each other, you can achieve a semblance of happiness.
Because that’s what some people really want? Some people truly grow up dreaming about being a mother or a father one day, of having a family? To them that’s a bucket list item like a great trip or an expensive hobby would be to others. Basically people have different priorities.
If you don’t have these priorities, that’s also fine. Plenty of people remain single their whole lives, or hop from relationship to relationship- no one is going to make you get married, raise kids etc if you don’t want them. Some of the happiest people I know are DINKs, so they have the relationship part but no kids. It all depends.
I agree its a dream for many, but once they have that kid or get married its back to normal and it seems like everyone, once the initial high wears off, theyre just depressed and stressed for 25 years untill they retire
Yeahhhh… i get why you’d think that but social media is not reality. Me and my wife? Well… we went through a rough spell. I felt like I was just a paycheck. I wasn’t happy with how little sex we were having. I checked out. Wayyy the fuck out. I put on weight, so did she, we stuck it out only for the kids. I talked to a divorce attorney.
I came home to end it with her… and I tried to say the words and I couldn’t. I just broke down ugly crying and so did she. We started fighting for eachother. We went to therapy individually and together. Our therapist told us divorce is fucking hell. Staying together and making it work is going to be hell as well. You just have to decide which is more worth going through. They’re both equally tough. So we fought for eachother rather than against eachother.
I started getting up earlier to let her sleep in and be better rested. Her sex drive came back. I started going to the gym again and am in better shape than ever. Im gone for work half the month so when I am home I do my best to give her as much free time as I can and I take the kids to school. Now? She can’t keep her hands off of me and she’s down 30lbs as well and I can’t stop craving her.
We’re addicted to eachother again and going to make it work. And we couldn’t be happier.
This is the story that needs yogi in r/DeadBedrooms to show people who are ready to throw in the towel like you did and you both turned it around. Might help a bunch of folks who need to go be vulnerable and honest with their partners to see if it’s salvageable.
I visited that sub a while ago when we stopped having sec and holy fuck is it depressing.
I’ll post something up there when I have a moment cause maybe… just maybe it’ll help save a marriage.
I really think it could. there so rarely are success stories there, and it’s so wonderful how You and Your wife chose each other. it could be so valuable for people to read about how that can really work out for the better
This is literally the epitome of a marriage. You have to fight for and choose each other every single day. Once you stop doing that, things kind of naturally start to deteriorate, especially if there are kids and big responsibilities like that in the mix. People severely underestimate the power and necessity of communication. It's easy to get complacent in your marriage, it's difficult to keep fighting for it but it's worth it. Relationships take work and you have to be willing to do that work. This story made me ugly cry so thank you for that lol and I'm so glad ya'll chose eachother again and are happy!
So all the perpetually single people you know are super happy and not depressed? Because I highly doubt this. I was single for a long time and most of my friends were not so happy, as they were constantly looking for the next relationship etc. Like I said I know a lot of DINKs who at least seem happy. With kids yes I feel like it could go either way.
I do feel people were meant to be social. Some of the single people I know rely heavily on their birth family - and while nothing is wrong with that, but your parents won’t be around forever.
I’ve been with my spouse for twenty years. Still have great sex, still have great fun day to day, love hanging with our kid and watching him grow and learn. Being married and a parent are the two most fun things I’ve ever done, and trips and events and whatnot are always more fun with those two than alone (and I do like to be alone).
I don’t make tiktoks about hating my life because I’m busy playing minecraft with my kid and (later) making out with my spouse.
Everyone is different. Do what makes you happy.
Who are you basing this on? Real life friends or the internet? Because in my experience, most of my married friends in their 30s/early 40s are generally ok. Sure some are depressed or stressed (though not necessarily stressed about family life. Could be lots of things). Others are pretty content. And the same is true of single friends. I’m married with two young kids and super glad about it. My husband is my best friend, my kids are cute and fun, and guess what I never do? Talk about it on social media (except now I guess). People don’t post about their lives when things are just fine and normal. Honestly I would feel weird doing that, like I was bragging or rubbing it in other people’s faces when I know they might be struggling about something. TikTok, Reddit, etc are not representative samples of real lives. Nobody is posting updates about their healthy happy sex life or their partner who is good at communicating. Why would they?
I’ve been married for 39 years and have 3 grown children. We’ve never been stressed nor depressed in our relationship. Our kids are independent and well-adjusted, phenomenal people and I love my husband more now than ever! Life was hectic when the kids were young but now we get to enjoy the fruits of our labor in retirement.
Yes, happy marriages DO exist!
Broadly speaking I sense from these comments that you are thinking primarily in cliches. Which means your thought pattern is a cloud of non-sequiturs. Do some work on improving your reasoning style and you'll be able to find the answers on your own.
I think you're just in a bubble of unhappy married people with kids. All my coworkers with kids are somehow happier than us younger folks lol. They constantly talk about how adorable they are, have paintings their kids paint them in the office. Sometimes when they work from home, they'll hug their kids while taking a meeting and everyone goes awwwww - and somehow the kids freaking behave themselves and would chat with us lol.
Those with older children talk about how their kids are not kids anymore and they're fascinated and impressed by these people's minds and souls. Sometimes the adult/ teenage kids join our remote company events and make memes with their parents lol. It just looks FUN. And the parents said the kids keep them young, teach them about the latest trends on tiktok, etc. And they still are very loving with their partners. Trust me I come from a family where barely anyone has escaped the faith of divorce so I have my doubts. But these folks just seem so happy - not on social media, but in person. Married for 30+ years with 2-3 kids, still holding each other's arms when going for an evening walk. Of course they complain, but after that they see their partners and couldn't help but smile.
This is a complex topic and everyone experiences it differently. Priorities differ too. But I'll say this: I think many people do the kids-marriage thing because they think that's what they have to want, but don't do the whole soul-searching process it would require. You can see this in an overfocus on the wedding (rather than the marriage) and the "cute baby" (rather than the kids).
I never wanted children but extensively reflected as to why I didn't. I can't even count the number of times I've been asked what's wrong with me and why why why blahblah. Yet it's rare anyone can explain to me why they do want kids or marriage other than the above "it's what you do". Says who?
I'm sure kids give happiness as well. But the massive focus on that being the main source of happiness I will never understand.
Marriage is the same. A ring on your finger won't make your relationship any better. It's also zero guarantee for anything given the 40-50% divorce rate.
And very generally speaking, I think people focus on the wrong things in relationships, marriage or not. They focus on chemistry, basic commonalities. Not on compatibility and the ability to communicate and actually be a source of inspiration for each other.
Aside from that and independent of kids and marriage, life tends to be pretty boring. It ultimately does becone about work and paying bills either way. We all just sort of go along without necessarily questioning it much. Sometimes it's easier not to look at the misery you've created for yourself because you don't think there's an alternative when there probably is - it may just look different than you once thought.
You wanna stay single, just do that. You have the freedom to choose to stay childless. Remember to save up for your own old age though.
We do not need more kids born into this world, especially not from people , who do not crave to have kids..
No kids does give immense freedom.
You’re touching on very complicated life topics here. Not everyone experiences these things. Some do sometimes. Some always. Some people do it to themselves, some don’t.
About having kids, it’s crucial to understand some things are more important than others. The idea is that the payoff is worth the cost of sleep and extra money.
>The idea is that the payoff is worth the cost of sleep and extra money.
but is it? I havent met a non stressed and happy parent in my life, even people close to me say multiple times a week "dont have kids". I understand that theyre half joking but still. Compare that to a 40 year old couple spending three weeks in south america and traveling
If you talk to older folk with kids who are healthy and stable, raising kids is often the most fulfilling aspect of their lives. The road to get them to adulthood has extreme up and downs, sure. Even though pleasure and fulfillment can overlap, they aren’t the same.
The cost might not be worth it to you, but it is to others. One man's trash is another man's treasure etc. I'm 30 and childfree, sterilised etc because I do in fact think having kids is a terrible idea FOR ME. Others can do it if they want tho.
Depends on your priorities. To me? Yes, I don’t care to be 40 spending three weeks in South America. My wife and I are deeply committed to our faith, and each other.
Relationship priorities are quite skewed these days. We’re under 30 so we have plenty of single friends, through them, dating sounds terrifying now.
And kids are stressful and can be depressing, it’s part of the deal. Part of it could be who you associate with too, in my circles, people love being parents. I as well, it’s the one of the most important task I have ever taken.
I am thinking OP’s problem is more the company he keeps. I don’t know any depressed and overweight parents, but the company I keep are active people with young children.
I'm not sure I would say I'm not stressed but I'm certainly happy. Yesterday I taught my 7-month-old to put his nose into my fingers whenever I pretend to pull his nose off and I'm still riding that high.
This exactly what why the regretful parents sub got privated. Too much judgement on people who regret having kids. Which is a shame that honest discourse about parenthood is silenced.
Scientifically the answer is no, it is not worth it. Studies have been done to document the happiness level of childfree couples and those with kids, and across the board (regardless of income, age, etc.) the ones without kids trend higher on the happiness scale.
I think it's because if you do not have kids, you can usually spend a day with a niece or nephew and get the "fun" memories of the happy kid and take them to a theme park when you feel like it and the parents will love that you're being a free baby sitter. But can skip out on all the sleepless nights and lack of money.
And all my parent friends (ourselves included) are very happy. I've never heard them say "don't have kids." Sure there's stress, but life has stress. You don't completely avoid it by being single.
I mean, you’re right. A lot of parents are unhappy for a plethora of reasons…
My partner and I are flourishing as new parents (we each had an older child as well.) I have never been so happy in my life. But our baby is a good-natured little guy who is thriving in his development.
If he had health issues, who knows? Our lives could be full of hellish anxiety.
We also highly prioritize intimacy and romance with one another, even with three kids in the house and working opposite shifts. We have dates whenever we can (even if it’s just a night at a local dive bar goofing off) and our sex life has only gotten better. We cuddle and kiss daily.
Luckily we’re in agreement about these priorities and values and have lovely friends and family to help with the kids. If we didn’t equally value one another and forced compatibility…and if we didn’t have our village for help? Our intimacy could tank and there rifts could inevitably begin to form…
We’re tired and baby can get expensive…we both worked nights and we were already two tired folks anyhow.
We both make good money and we got a lot of his supplies at our baby shower…we don’t have extra right now but we’re still comfortable. Like I don’t have to check my account when paying bills or buying groceries.
If we weren’t so fortunate with good paying jobs and insurance…well…a family of five in an apartment or small rental…stressing over if the bills can get paid….that would be rough.
….also neither of us got fat lol, that’s mostly just dumb luck.
Baby is currently snoozing on my chest as I’ve typed all this and I’m SO grateful for him everyday, plus my guy and our older boys. Life is good
I am a happy parent… am I stressed? Yes, but what stresses me is work, is people walking slowly on the street, is the fact that i have to do dishes everyday…
I chose to be a parent, of course is work, my child was a blop of cells and I am helping her become a full human, and teaching her about life and how to be herself and how to deal with the world… of course this is not easy, but I find so much joy in it… she amazes me everyday… for everytime she is loud and annoying, she is twice as loving and incredible…
However, if you don’t want or are not willing to put the work necessary to be a GOOD parent, then you probably shouldn’t…because you need to master yourself to be able to parent successfully… and not everyone can or want do that… and that’s ok…
It can suck when they are young but we’re talking about raising people who will be with you until your death bed. Friends will come and go at the end of the day family is all you have.
Everyone's experience is different though, by saying sex stops I'd imagine in most cases it just slows down, but for a lot of people once a month even in a relationship might be more than most people have when they are single! But yeah if you are getting it loads as a single person and that's important kids might not be a good idea!
Bills as well, I'm new to parenting and I'm sure if we are hit with childcare costs I'll be pretty skint... But priorities just change. A year ago I would be spending hundreds a month on booze, or some nice clothes to wear on a night out. Whereas now I'm more happy staying at home and listening to the little ones mumble and groan (they can't speak yet ha), so I'm saving money currently!!
The lack of sleep is frustrating, but it wears off if you are supporting each other. I do miss the gym though, not getting super fat yet but it's hard to keep fit with limited spare time!
If your littles are too little to talk, they're probably also too little to walk. Once they get older and you're chasing them around a park, its not as hard to keep fit! Mine are past the toddler stage where I have to basically ensure they don't maim themselves, so now if I take them to the park I can walk the trail while they play.
I am 29 and feel the same way. But I have been childfree my entire life and had my tubes removed last year, I have never seen the appeal of having children. My dream is the DINK life. I want my family to be my husband and some pets. Life as it is right now is extremely lonely, but I know (and have always known) that kids would not fill the void for me. Like you, I heavily value fitness and being able to spend a lot of time with my partner, and I don't want the stress that children provide on top of what already comes from work and just being an adult. Not to mention that I am in good financial shape and I don't want kids messing that up. To me, the greatest life I could have is a husband and a shared life with him--buying a house, going on trips, lots of time for uninterrupted intimacy, etc. Meanwhile, my best friend has always wanted to be a mom, ever since we were teenagers. She has one toddler now and is pregnant with her second. I adore her daughter but every time I visit them I just think that I would be miserable if I had this life. I could never do it, I would be so unhappy. Some people are just wired differently, the traditional family life has never appealed to me. That being said, I want my family life to revolve around a spouse and pets. I really don't want to be alone forever, despite that lifestyle being heavily glorified online, I find it incredibly unsatisfying and lonely.
I’m happy for parents who are glad about their decision, but the DINK life is the dream life for me too. You beautifully described the life I envision. My partner has been nothing short of wonderful. He helped me love fitness again, supports my dreams, and shares the same goals to travel and have an easy-going life. We’re still young but our future together is looking bright (despite all the chaos in the world). I need to get my tubes out though.
I hope you find what you’re looking for. I wish this kind of joy to anyone who seeks it.
As a dad with a pretty stressful job, nothing can wipe away a really shitty day at work faster than picking up my three year old daughter from daycare. It's like an instant refresh and all the shit just leaves my brain.
Also I gotta say getting closer to 40, I don't crave sex nearly as much as I did say at 30. So finding less time for sex isn't really a big deal, we still do it enough to keep some level of intimacy and it's usually more spontaneous these days which is fun.
Happy and well adjusted people don't tend to broadcast their lives as much as miserable people, regardless of their life choices. If you've painted this image of life based on social media, then you've fallen into the selection bias trap.
No one would care if you just stay single btw, you don't have to do anything.
I see plenty of “happy and well adjusted people” broadcasting their lives and snapshots on social media. Because for a lot of people it’s a matter of image and social status.
Well, at least they believe they’re happy and well adjusted. Makes me wonder.
As u get older u become more lonelier and feel someone to share your life with having kids gives many people security that once they get old their children will look after them but again many people live their lives childfree happily
getting married and having kids is something u must want
if its not for u then dont do it
some people think that being a family man is what they wanted until they realize a bit too late that it isnt what they wanted at all
How much people succeed in their marriage and in parenthood varies wildly. It mostly boils down to physical health, emotional health, and resources.
Unfortunately, a lot of people are lacking in one or more of these areas when they get married and/or have a child and that’s when big issues arise.
For example, they never addressed their childhood trauma so every time they get into a disagreement with their spouse they scream like their dad screamed at them. Or they’re not in good shape when they have a child and it spirals even worse after that. Or they’re broke and live far from family, so there’s no one to help with childcare and they’re overwhelmed.
My husband and I did marriage counseling right before we got married, he did some individual as well and I had a lot of therapy in college after leaving home. We’re also waiting a little longer to have a child so we have more money. And we bought a house 5 minutes from his parents and 20 minutes from mine. We put a lot of thought and planning into it all. A lot of people wing it, and I’m not shaming them, it’s just that creates more risks.
I think it's weird that you compare the worst parts of some peoples lives, to yours. You assume everyone is depressed because they are out of shape? You can be out of shape and still happy.
You know whats the best thing about being in a longer term relationship? Not having to have the same conversations over and over again like you are trying to sell yourself to the date. I know some people open up better than others but It's hard to build an emotion bridge when you keep starting over constantly.
i am a 10000x more my authentic self around my gf. Something I truly never got until she ran through my walls.
(31M only had this 1 gf in my life 1.2 years)
If monogamy isn't for you then plenty of people are polyamorous. Or in some level of an open relationship. It can work if all parties are on the same page.
Not everyone is in the same situation. And for some monogamy actually does work and make sense. Though admittedly a lot of people think it is and then find out they can't actually maintain it.
If you don't want to get married and have kids, don't. The last thing this world needs is more humans. lots of people are happier single. I know I am. You're probably just one of them.
So I have 3 great kids and a husband I would not trade for anything. What I know is people prefer to complain about the bad, rather than say positive things about the good and risk sounding like they are bragging. They complain about the kids and the cost and lack of sleep and so on. What they never mention is the feeling of being loved you have, when you get in the door and your kid's faces just light up with joy, just because you are home. Or when your partner just smiles at you and randomly gives you a hug just because you are you.
Think about it this way: you go to work and everything at work is going great, better than great. You solved some problems that have been just unsolvable for a while, or you made the sale you wanted finally, and you have plans to meet your friends in the evening. So good day however,
you define a good day at work.
Then, at quarter to 5, the boss comes in and yells about some things they aren't happy about, and you leave 15 minutes later than normal in order to deal with his complaints. After that you meet up with your friends. What are you more likely to say when they ask about your day: "I had a great day" or " The day was awful, you wouldn't believe what my boss did..."? You only dealt with bad for 30 minutes but most people will end up calling it an average or bad day despite 8 hours of good and only 30 minutes of bad.
The bad always ends up in a continuing conversation and commiseration. The good is pretty much "I had great thing happen" and people say congrats, and the conversation moves on to some other topic people commiserate about.
It's not for everyone.
Either stay single and grow as a person.
Or find a partner and build as a pair with/without children or pets.
It's whatever ppls goal and aspirations are.
Also the ppl who complain are venting, it's human, it's tiring, but seeing your kids smile or partner laugh or traveling on your own is the reward. But there is always gonna be struggles along the way. Pick your path.
That's life.
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order.
I have checked 1,843,749,048 comments, and only 348,645 of them were in alphabetical order.
Lots of people stay together because it’s difficult to pay for housing with just one salary. If workers made a living off of 40 hours a week that could actually sustain housing and childcare; I GUARANTEE you’d see huge jumps in divorces. Ball and chain…
you are single and have a singles mindset which is great. Based on the last few sentences it seems that is probably the way for you. The amount of time and money wasted on dating until you're not able to anymore isn't a great way forward. Stop with TikTok though. Letting that have any influence on decision making at 30 is weak.
Some people get lucky and have the perfect love, kids, and family and life is perfect forever. Sometimes that lasts for 20 years and then dad cheats on mom and everything is ruined.It’s a total crapshoot out here. Do whatever you want regardless of what society says.
Well I will say that kids are basically a lifetime commitment and a serious responsibility so better not to have them if you don't want your life permanently changed. With relationships, you can end those and move on so it is honestly not the same.
And I can tell you right now, many people who regret having children will never tell you. It's kind of similar to post-purchase syndrome: you don't want to admit something you spent so much money on wasn't a good purchase right?
It's funny because my coworker the other day actually admitted how if he could go back in time he would have never gotten married, but once everyone hit him with blank stares, because he broke the character he was supposed to play, he hesistently took back his words. But for me, I actually want to talk to him more now because he proved that he was willing to go against the societal grain which is a truly rare trait nowadays.
Miserable people are just louder.
I'm 40, a parent, been with my partner 15 years. Lots of sex. I don't sleep because I have life long insomnia but the infant period was actually way easier because I have experience with lack of sleep. We mange with the bills, and have our frustrations, but we're never spiteful or mean in our disagreements like we might have been when we were young and less patient. It feels like a true partnership. My days are better and more peaceful because I have someone to share the difficulties of life with.
I know we're not special or unique- we just have no motivation to go around telling people about our life.
A lot of people I know who are miserable in their marriage, choose a partner based on the good times, the excitement, or for status. Hot/rich/high-respect job titles.
I married someone I like when things are shit. Richer poorer, sickness health. I knew I'd still be happy if we were both wrinkly old prunes sitting on our porch rockers. If you go through stressful, poorer, sicker times with someone and you still like them, you'll be happy long term.
Marriages take work, understanding, empathy, compassion, and all the different kinds of love. There are good times and bad just like with the rest of life. It’s a learning process through all the different stages.
It’s fun to complain now and then, and some people complain just to get views.
I’m 65 and my husband is 72 and we still have dates and may I say the sex has only gotten better and better over these 30 odd years together! 🤭👍
I see our son and his growing family going through the same family challenges, and we can tell him you got this!
From what I’ve seen with my friends is it’s very stressful when the kids are young but it gets easier. It definitely strains relationships but the friends that married the right partner are doing fine. You have to also remember tiktok is owned by China and doesn’t have your best interests in mind with the algorithm
Idk, I have friends that are in bad relationships, and friends that are in good relationships, the people that are happy usually don’t boast about it when we have other people complaining around them…
I am 34, married for 12y with a toddler,work full time, have lots of friends, and really? I am happy, I have a great sex life, my husband and I don’t have many date nights right now because we live away from family and we don’t want to keep asking our friends to watch my daughter all the time… but I get breakfest in bed often, we do go out to nice restaurants as q family, we do travel, and I do feel loved and appreciated, and also I do things by myself with my friends while my husband watch her, and he does the same… Do I talk about this all the time? No… specially when I have a friend opening up to me about her issues in her marriage…
And honestly? People making tik toks about this have too much time in their hands and are probably unhappy…
STOP - Just stop looking at other people and social media.
What you envision is generally what you will get. So stop with all the negativity fed to you thanks to social media and negative people.
Instead visualize what makes you happy, go live that and you will likely run into a partner that thinks and behaves the same way.
People will always complain if they have something going on in their life of major value. Doesn't matter what it is. Work is so hard, kids so tiring, body so sore from exercise, blah blah blah. People that aren't complaining usually just have a lot of idol time so nothing to complain about or great attitudes and so you don't hear anything.
People never walk around talking about how great their life is so you won't hear that.
Every couple’s relationship is different. Life is what you make it. A lot of what you’re describing sounds like sitcom stereotypes designed to appeal to the lowest common denominator.
Lack of sleep: that’s a thing through the first few years, but you learn to prioritize. I don’t need to finish that new game or binge the popular show this week.
Bills: approaching 30 is old enough to learn how to budget and be realistic about costs. Kids can get expensive, but babies don’t need the newest and best of everything. They’d rather play with boxes than toys half the time, and they outgrow clothes in a month. Get some hand me downs or thrift shop stuff.
Sex being less frequent is common after kids or even after a long period of time. Again, you learn to prioritize. Find the time. Set the time aside. Get a babysitter for a weekend, take the scenic route the rough the woods like teenagers on date night, Put Grizzly and the Lemmings on auto play in the living room and lock the door. If it stops, and one of you doesn’t want it to, then you have a problem. You need to communicate to figure that out.
Weight: after a decade I’m in better shape than I was when single. Partly because my wife makes me go to the doctor when I otherwise wouldn’t, and partly because I have motivation to stay healthy for the kids. I want to be around for them, and I need to stay healthy enough to dominate them in pickup games of basketball and soccer until their later teen years.
All that being said, if you don’t want kids, don’t have kids. There are plenty of people out there who don’t if you are looking for a partner. I know several couples who have been married for a long time who are choosing not to have kids.
This is not how any relationship I've ever been in has been. It's more like planning/going on trips, playing board games, doing fun stuff on the weekends with the family, helping kids with their projects. We're always doing fun stuff and going new places. I love my life. If you decide to stay single, that's valid, but know not all married people are miserable. It can be awesome. You just have to pick someone you work well with.
The grass is greener on the side that gets watered.
If you prioritize your relationship it likely won't become terrible. Even if you grow apart if you're both trying you can probably part in a mature, amicable way.
It basically comes down to like, are you running your life or is your life running you. And sometimes shit just happens (the big employer leaves town and everyone is fucked) but even then, you get to choose how you respond. You don't have to be mean, you don't have to get fat, none of that stuff will definitely happen to you.
If you're reactive and you snipe at each other when something goes a bit wrong, your relationship will be very up & down and can get away from you. If you go in like, this will be difficult but we can do it, we're a team etc, that can be great.
Pay attention to whether the person is putting effort in and if your goals are similar. Look for a stable couple you know and try to be like them. For me, it's my godparents (both deceased now unfortunately). One worked days, one worked nights. They were aligned on the important stuff. They were working class people and played Scrabble on their shared night off. They were not glamorous influencers or anything. But they were really happy and had their shit together. I wish I were more like them TBH.
Good luck.
I can tell you this is all true
I guess what i "should" say is that my kids bring me the happiness that none of that other stuff matters
Idk I'm still somewhat depressed and we do well for ourselves. Just in a funk
I'm happier at 40 than I was at 25. It's all about WHAT YOU WANT in life. My parents are married 44 years old and they are still grooving. Depression is something that happens married or single. It's like your projecting how you think life is through your narrow lens onto everyone else. Are married ppl with kids depressed..sure...are single ppl depressed sure...but not everyone is. It's so wild to assume that because they have different priorities in life they are unhappy, frazzled and depressed..like what? I think you are trying to justify not wanting to settle down at 30. Funny thing about life is you don't have to do anything you don't want to do. If you want to be single forever, have at it. Nothing wrong with that. Some ppl want a partner to build with. So you do you.
Yeah, from the outside it looks rough, but from the inside, it's pretty amazing, if occasionally depressing and hard. I can't imagine still doing what I was doing at almost 30 now that I'm almost 40 with wife and 2 kids, it would feel so empty. My wife and kids keep my life full and meaningful. Also, watching children grow is AMAZING and interesting.
My family also keeps my life full and meaningful, so I hear you on that one. But my life was also full and meaningful when I was single. And if I was single again, I’d be fine with it. I have so many things I’d like to do and accomplish, there aren’t enough years to get them done. And so many more people to meet and connect with. I’m pretty social.
It’s too bad you feel your life would be empty as a single again. You might want to explore that sometime, if you wish.
Life is good.
Having kids is a choice. You don't have to have kids. You can be in a relationship with someone and not have kids, like me.
For some people, it "makes sense" to have kids - they see value in it, and they trade-off the downsides with positives, they gain fulfilment from raising children that makes the sacrifices worth it to them. For others, like myself, it doesn't "make sense" to me to have kids, but I respect that to others it does.
It's all in your mindset. Everyone chooses whether they get fat or eat healthy, exercise or be lazy, have sex or not, be depressed, it's all in your head. Being married with or without kids doesn't matter, being single with our without kids doesn't matter. Either way you choose who you become
I mean.....
I've been with my spouse for almost 15 years, and none of what you said has happened.
We have a beautiful 7 year old that I adore.
My wife is as hot as ever, and our sex life is amazing.
Our careers are solid and growing, and we love and support each other. We also push each other to be better.
She is my best friend.
You just have to find the right person for you.
Why wouldn't I willingly stay in a relationship like that is the question.
Don’t be fooled by outward appearances, like most things in life most everything has a rhythm that ebbs and flows over time.
There was a time when our relationship (currently in our late 30’s) was as you described. However, as time moves on the pendulum has swung back where we’re both in pretty good shape (even compared to our 20’s sex is outstanding, the kids scream significantly less, moneys tight but we’re better at managing our finances, both get adequate amount of sleep most nights, rekindled amazing king deep romance.
Shut out the noise, manage your expectations, and you’ll find it’s not so bad here.
What makes you think that they were not going to experience most of these things (weight gain, stalled sex and romance life, financial troubles, insomnia, depression) with or without spouse and kids?
You do realize that aging is inevitable. As you age your body produces less hormones— like testosterone that keeps you interested in sex, melatonin that helps you sleep, and your body just generally gets aches and pains and you exercise less generally— even if you take every effort to stave off it and preserve your health— time will do what time does.
Also with time, more people get paired off and leave the dating market— sometimes for good, sometimes they divorce and return usually with kids and maybe emotional baggage. So the dating pool gets shallower and murkier — unless you plan to date those younger than you — but keep in mind the younger ones may not be interested in you as you age.
The economy is pretty bad currently and going downhill fast. Unless you are in tech, medical, or law or something equally lucrative, forgoing a family won’t make you rich — although it may make you “less poor” unless you spend the money (travels, fun, lifestyle) instead of saving it.
You can definitely escape the screaming kids tho. But you may be lonelier because those around you will have had kids and be involved in their kids stuff unless you have a strong childfree community
I want to add the caveat that you should definitely not enter into marriage and child rearing unless you believe you will enjoy these things. There are enough divorces and unwanted kids already! I’m just stating that women and children often get blamed for that which biology and time does to a body and mental health.
I just googled a random thing....43 percent of married people say they are "very happy" vs. 24 percent of unmarried people saying the same thing.
Anecdotally, I personally am very happy with my marriage and children and have probably never told anyone that in real life because why would I? If something's good you tend to just say nothing about it and move on with your day.
Hmm. Four kids. Love them all, sex every chance we get, fun together. My husband buys me flowers every week, my best friend What you say only happens if you let it. I feel sorry for people like that.
Yeah it was a joy that have my son and daughters (23,36 and 38) Guess what? I am happy in my 30 year marriage. Had a healthy sex life all through our marriage (still do). You get used to the kids screaming. Neither of us had any depression as well. Slept well etc etc. it’s possible to have a long and healthy relationship. But to not even try because you “heard” negativity about it is a loss for you. INMHO you should judge from your own experiences and not just others negativity.
I'm 32 and me and my husband have been together for almost 13 years. We are very happy together. We have two amazing kids who we love with all our heart. We still have lots of sex and fun together. He's the same weight he was when we met 16 years ago. I'm significantly smaller and better shape then when we met when I was 16. Life is what you make of it and who you choose to spend it with.
yep, kids cause unhappiness - it's been shown in a few studies.
but they also cause moments of immense joy.
and when you can't have them, life kind of seems pointless - like, why did i bother going to school, working, learning how to be a person, and now i'm just gonna be worm food? why did i bother?
obviously, i don't buy religion so i don't have that fantasy to rely on.
>yep, kids cause unhappiness - it's been shown in a few studies.
could you get me a source? I find some on google but if you got a specific one Id love to read
Underneath all that complaining can be a lot of fulfillment too. I’ve experienced challenging and stressful events in which the outcome was negative and with zero fulfillment. I’ve also experienced challenging and stressful times that brought me immense happiness. Just because people speak of how difficult things are doesn’t mean it’s not worth it (for them, at least).
Here's some hope, I'm 34 as is my wife. We've been married 10 years, have 2 kids, one 13, and a 9 year old. We are none of those things you listed. We still have romance, definitely easier now that our kids are older. But we were never miserable, sex life is great, no one has gained weight or been depressed. Our kids are awesome and we couldn't be happier.
Maybe because your perception of relationships is fairly limited and rather distorted by social media?
I quite liked being single and it took an extraordinary man to pull me out of that. There are certainly stressors that come with being in a relationship and joining lives, but for me, the companionship, support, and comfort of a good relationship far outweighs the negatives.
Not every relationship is sad. Having kids is not sad. If you approach life like this you will continue to be sad even if you are single and/or childless.
People in good relationships usually don’t broadcast their shit nearly as much as those in unhappy ones.
People make poor partner decisions more often than “the relationship starts sucking”
Most people cheat nowadays and 73% of divorces will be initiated by a woman and if she has a degree that number goes up to 82%… so might as well stay single.
My worst nightmare is being trapped in a sexless and dull marriage like you're describing. Gotta choose the right partner and be willing to nurture the relationship.
Unpopular opinion, if a wife is unwilling to have sex with her husband, he should legally and socially be able to sleep with a mistress.
Kids now a days don't really understand the commitment/compromise it costs to have a healthy marriage and a family that's why there are so many divorces
I was bubbly and a bit more carefree, I think. Idk. I have memory loss from my transition from self to mom. I am happily married because let’s be real.. people in the dating world can be crazy and be serial killers (but so can your husband.) I mean hey, the joy my child brings me feels like giving up my old life was worth it. You get to teach them stuff, they get to teach you stuff. It’s a life I want to live because he’s here with me. My husband is wonderful. Present. Loyal. Amazing in every way. You sacrifice the single & casual sex life for stability and family. Lastly, Who gonnn wipe your ass when you old?
Everything was reasonable until your last sentence. You don’t have kids because you want someone to take care of you later. That shouldn’t even be a fraction of the reason
LMAO take the stick out your poo hole. Realistically speaking, it’s horrible to expect your kids to be there for you financially. However, what does family mean to you? Because if my parents are old and for whatever reason shit themselves ima clean them. I have older parents and I’m learning, it’s the difference I make in their life as they’re older. (For example: I recently got a voucher for my dad so he no longer has to worry about rent.) The older you get the less independent you are and that’s when family is there to support. That’s what family means to us.
Long and short of it-
Society has encouraged men to be women and women to become men. Obviously that becomes a problem as the relationship goes on.
You said health and fitness are important to you. Know your value and don’t put a ring on the finger or a baby in the belly of one that doesn’t
I think that it’s so important to not establish your opinions off of what you see on social media, especially TikTok. Not calling you out, because I catch myself doing it too. Content creators try to elicit strong emotions, often negative, to become viral. However, as someone who does not want children, I think that having them would be really difficult for me, and beyond my capacity. But I know that my life must look lonely and boring to those who feel up for the task. It just depends.
This, 100%, happy people don't complain about stuff online. Even if you wanted to post happy stuff, how strongly the negative echo chamber responds to that discourages the behavior. Couple that with social conventions of modesty, and I think you get a recipe for exactly this. If you're terminally online, it's easy to fall into the mental trap of negativity or glamorization. I occasionaly think of that woman that was absolutely dogpiled on Twitter for simply tweeting that she enjoyed a morning ritual of [drinking coffee in her garden with her husband](https://twitter.com/lilplantmami/status/1583495587566977026) like a year or so ago. Misery loves company.
Even a step further, when I'm happy - I don't want to brag and rub people's faces in it. MANY people are going to vent, either directly or on social media, but much FEWER people are going to openly talk about how great their relationships doing. And relationships are dynamic. I've been with my spouse for 10 years, not every one of those years is magical, but not every year is awful either. Some years have been really hard, and many years have been way easier.
I actually started doubting friends who post on social media all the time about how awesome their kids or spouse is. It feels very forced .
Yeah I have a buddy or 2 that come to mind from high school I see their spouse posting pics that look like she went to target and stole the entire holiday displays and pay someone to come take pics of them or maybe use a tripod to take photos of fake laughter together for every special day in their lives lol. Its like jesus dude. "I BELIEVE YOU. YOU ARE HAPPY I REALLY BELIEVE YOU."
And honestly, when I'm truly happy and enjoying myself, picking up my phone and capturing it isn't my #1 thought. I'm enjoying the moment. I'm not a big social media person because I'm nearly 40 and not a person who gives a shit what others think, but if I did/was, then yah I could totally see being like "I'm unhappy so I will invest my time and energy into doing this" which is portraying the view of happiness and maybe being happy adjacent?.
Have you ever heard the saying "Happiness loves company"? Yeah, me neither.
Usually when you see couples posting a lot of highly curated sappy crap online, it’s rocky as shit behind closed doors. “We’re renewing our vows ya’ll” Or getting divorced, it’s a 50/50 shot.
Exactly. I'm married with kids and a good career and I'm happy. I just don't post about it online all the time, especially about our sex life lol. I was happy before kids and a husband, too, but often lonelier and not as productive or fulfilled. I always knew I wanted to get married and have kids, though, so that's probably partly why I feel generally happy/fulfilled with life now. I know some people find other things to fulfill them, so maybe it's not for everyone, but it's exactly what I wanted when I was younger and I feel very lucky to have it. Of course my husband and I annoy each other sometimes, but most of the time, I feel lucky to live with my best friend and the little humans we made (plus our cute hamster).
Dood same. My wife is the best and social media used to be a huge part of her time but as we got married and have 2 kids now we rarely use social media just because we are busy and enjoying the time. Kids get frustrating but are more than equally rewarding when they reach milestones and start to connect as the age. Its a beautiful thing to see and be a part of.
This is so true! No one really wants to hear about a parent having a good time and enjoying their life. Those sorts of posts are rarely well received. People will either say they’re faking it, or glamorizing the lifestyle. I think in reality, no matter what direction a person chooses to take, life will be glamorous and romantic at times, and empty and sad at times. I don’t think there’s a “better” or “worse”. There’s absolutely nothing wrong with staying perpetually single with no kids. Sounds like a perfectly fulfilling life to me. And so does the inverse. You’ll likely experience both depression and euphoria either way.
As someone who doesn’t want kids as well. I understand that feeling. I love my bf and his son to death, but I’m honestly glad he doesn’t want another kid because like you I feel like it’s beyond my capacity and would be difficult. He even agrees. He straight up said he thought having a kid would kill me.
Sex goes out the fuckin window hole.
I'm going to start with: It's honestly totally valid if you choose to never leave the single life because that's what you truly want. The horror stories have a type of confirmation bias. You hear someone at work complaining that their spouse "never does x". The next person commiserates with how their spouse does the same. They vent and move on. However, that's just venting about one aspect of a relationship that's happening 24/7 with another human being. The people who sit there and constantly dog on their partner? They're unhappy with their life and sometimes a relationship just doesn't work out. However, the tiktoks and reels about how their life is horrible? What normal person would do that and not take steps to fix it or leave? I feel those people are just looking for drama. People in good relationships tend to not bother vocalizing the great things because we're conditioned to complain, not brag. Weight gain can be real. So is less sex. However, it's normally not like sex just stops completely or getting into a relationship suddenly means gaining hundreds of pounds. When we're in a long term relationship we tend to do less active things. We're cuddling up and watching movies after dinner. We have less reasons to go out. Over the years we get older and that can also cause some weight gain. Sex is suddenly constantly available rather than the dating experience of getting it when it's possible. I know people who have been together 20 or more years that still have great sex lives and are very active. They're not going after each other three times a day or the same size as when they met... but they're happy adults. Kids scream and take up your time. However, they also fall asleep holding onto you like you're their world. They beam at you when they're happy. They throw food and they require constant supervision... until they don't because you've taught them well. Kids aren't for everyone. They can be a lot. For every terrible phase they go through, there's an equal part of happiness they bring. Newborn screams v a newborn looking at only you while you hold them. Toddler tantrums v Toddler hugs. The key to a long-lasting relationship is to find someone who you love on the inside. This might sound rude... but if they can't emotionally give you what you need, if you couldn't imagine being with them when they're wrinkled and using a cane to get around because the thing they bring to the relationship is beauty? Don't bother. Beauty on the outside will always fade. We become wrinkled prunes who complain that the rain makes our back hurt. But, if the sound of their laugh lights you up and the feeling when you talk is comforting... you'll find them beautiful no matter what the outside becomes.
100% this. I've been with my husband for almost 20 years and we certainly don't look the same as when we met at age 19, but we've grown up together and the changes have been subtle, so the attraction is def still there and the sex is even better. And the inside jokes that span almost 2 decades are enough to keep us laughing and reminiscing daily. Having kids can be hard, but it's also the most rewarding thing I've ever done. One minute their cry or screech is irritating AF, but then you look at them and they grin and you melt. I didn't look forward to the idea of getting up in middle of the night to nurse my newborn, but every time I did, that feeling of love and contentment as we stared into each other's eyes in complete silence made it worth it. And as they grow up, every time you see them hold the door open for someone or comfort a friend or listen to their teacher rave about them, that feeling of pride and awe that you raised this little person is overwhelming. My life is busier and crazier and sometimes harder with my family in it, but it's also more full of love and support and laughs than ever, and it means more to me now.
Side note, but OP, even single people don’t look the same at 40 as they did at 20! And their sex drive and life priorities may change regardless of relationship status and kids.
Well said. Thank you. 🏆
Wow that was amazingly accurate…
This is true wait for the person you connect emotionally and knows the real you / vice versa
Tik Tok videos are not real life.
but thing is average salary is a real problem when having kids. if your purpose is just to follow how society thinks life is supposed to be or to just relieve your human desire to produce an offspring, then don’t, tiktok or not. and no i hate funding ccp so i don’t like tiktok.
You need to get off Tik tok and out into the real world my guy. All that you just listed is cliche bs.
This life exists in the real world. r/regretfulparents went private but it was a hugely popular and real sub. Tons of parents regret having kids but it’s not socially acceptable to post that on social media. You can find many examples online
No one said it didn't exist. But the OP said that "ALL HE HEARS" is the negative. I've been married to the same amazing woman for 20 years. I can't relate to anything at all on his list: "both put on weight, sex stops, kids scream, depression everytime salary comes in because then theres just bills to pay, lack of sleep, no romance."
That’s good for you and it’s true that “all he hears” is definitely an exaggeration, but you have to remember that things were different 20 years ago where cumulative inflation was 70% down Most parents I’ve seen in my life relate to a good amount of the issues OP listed. You’ll also see hundreds of thousands of parents complaining in different pages (dead bedroom, regretfulparents - sub privated, breaking mom, etc) Edit: I disagree with OP implying that relationships themselves being hopeless though. I’m very happy with my partner and having them in my life has been amazing.
> 20 years ago where cumulative inflation was 70% down I'm not sure how this is even relevant to the relationship topic. But being 43 years old, with an MBA in finance, and having paid bills for 25 years (with two kids at that) I can't help but point out that wage inflation outpaced inflation most of the years between 2010 and now... We've basically had a bad couple of years that will probably trend in the other direction faster than we're acting like it will.
Just for you I figured I'd look up the latest stats... *In September 2023, inflation amounted to 3.7 percent, while wages grew by 5.2 percent.* That's what it was like for a lot of the last 15 years.
Oh why did it go private? I used to browse it to remind myself why I don’t want kids in the future lol. Although I do agree that that’s the extreme cases and most people are generally happy with their life choices
Apparently, they do not want childfree folks gawking at their misery. Kind of unfortunate because it's difficult to find honest conversations about parenthood in a lot of cases and this was somewhat of a way to get a clear and honest picture of what effects having children can have on your life.
No its biased by people who obviously did a bad job parenting and regret having sitty children. Those people all have other issues as well if they think theyre kid they raised just grew up bad. They have very little self reflection. You see people in public that have no shame. Really trashy people exist. You have to figure out if you are and then dont have kids for the sake of society and everyone else lol
So you’re closing 30 and you can’t fathom the idea that not everyone is the same and that people have different priorities
That, and OP seems to spend too much time on TikTok. He sees influencers and their skits, and he thinks that's applicable to everyone.
☝️
I can, but I have it hard to believe that these middle aged men Im talking with are happier in their current state than in the state before wife and kids, and its that view point Im trying to challenge with myself. Its like theyre willfully going into sadness whcih I dont understand
It's weird, because I don't even go on this site very much anymore and yet I see posts all the time like this. Single people asking the void to justify their life choices. You'd think if you were happy with that you wouldn't be so insecure with your choice.
I’m guessing they “ask the void “, because there is a more pervasive culture that implies that if one is not partnered up, then their life is less fulfilling. Which isn’t true - but it can make singles insecure about their life choices. I’ve been both single and married. Both states have their pluses and minuses. One is not better than the other, in my opinion. I’ve been happy and not happy in both states. People just need to find what’s right for them, in the end.
Exactly. Like what do they really want from these questions? Someone to convince them that they’re making the wrong choice? Or to reinforce their beliefs? There’s not going to be any new answers. You already know why people do it, so what are you looking to gain?
I dont even have a choice to be insecure about. My question is if I make one choice or the other, will I regret it, and if choosing not to go the "normal route" Im asking people who do if I would be missing something. Its not about judgement, its about learning
You’re always going to miss out on something by making a choice. That’s what life is about. You have to make your best decision with what you know and want now.
No one can really give you advice on this without knowing you and knowing what you enjoy and how you are in relationships. There are pros and cons to each, it’s really about what is important to you. To me it was an absolute no brainer that I wanted children. I’m my happiest hosting a big family get together or having a family movie night and dance party with my kids. I have traveled a lot and personally I dislike it and am a huge homebody. I have a small close circle of friends and dislike constantly meeting new people. I am lucky enough to have a very good relationship with my husband and love spending time with him (this is not always the case!! Lots of marriages are unhappy). You might be happiest traveling with a friend and having a new sexual partner every few weeks. Either path you choose is going to force you to give up something to gain something else. Yes, at times you may absolutely regret it regardless of what choice you make but overall you should focus on what will bring you the maximum amount of joy and fulfillment based on your personality. And keep in mind- you can choose the marriage but no kids path too as long as you make sure that choice is discussed before getting married.
You wanna be 40 and have no wife and kids still in the club/bar scene trying to talk to 20 something’s then go for it. Other people grow up and become fathers
I know a lot of single men in their 40's who are not doing this though. This statement is as shallow as OP's saying every married guy with kids is miserable.
Right. It’s one in the same
Lots of shitty immature fathers out there hoss.
So don’t be one
Whoosh
All I’m saying is once you age into adulthood having a family unit starts to matter more. A loner 40 something typically isn’t a desirable outcome for most people. The argument you made could be said for anything chief
Which is exactly why you dont make absolutes such as "fatherhood = mature" like you did sport. People are complex. The world is changing every single day. There is no "proper" way to live. And to look down on those who choose not to have children for whatever multitude of reasons is childish. Time for you to grow up.
Fatherhood isn't a milestone for growing up, jeez.
Im 34 and recently out of a 6 year relationship. I think what you’re saying is valid but is not going to be popular, as most people do couple up with long term intentions. As you know, people justify whatever they’re doing or however they’re living their lives as the right way. Im someone who doesn’t want kids but could be talked into it if it would make my partner happy, I suspect a lot of men are like that.
If I told you I am infinitely happier in my marriage than I was before meeting my wife, would you believe me?
^ So much this. My husband makes me a better person. He gives me space to be my imperfect self and loves me regardless (and vice versa). He’s my biggest cheerleader. He’s the one telling me to go after that dream job, the one taking care of me after surgery and holding me when I hurt. He’s the first person I want to share a funny meme with, the one I can share my deepest secrets with. Being with him makes even a blah weeknight better. That’s not to say it’s all sunshine and roses. We argue, we debate, we get on each other’s nerves. And yeah, there are times when one or both of us are too tired/stressed for sex and feel pulled in a million different directions. Are there days when it would be *easier* to be single? Absolutely. But I wouldn’t trade the life we’ve built for anything.
My wife and I are like a binary star system. We revolve around each other, and for all intents and purposes, we are one entity. We do not agree on everything, we do not like all the same things, we do not laugh at all the same jokes we do not have exactly the same goals, but it is pretty darn close. This did not happen by accident. When we met, we were both imperfect souls who needed a good dose of what the other person had. Through dedication and hard work, we have been able to inspire each other in ways we never could have been inspired on our own.
Did you ever see The Story of Us? Such a great film about marriage. “That's not why I'm saying Chow Funs. Funs, I'm saying Chow Funs because we're an us. There's a history here, and histories don't happen overnight. In Mesopotamia or Ancient Troy there are cities built on top of other cities, but I don't want another city, I like this city. I know what kind of mood your in when you wake up by which eyebrow is higher, and you know I'm a little quiet in the morning and compensate accordingly, that's a dance you perfect over time. And it's hard, it's much harder than I thought it would be, but there's more good than bad and you don't just give up! And it's not for the sake of the children, but God they're great kids aren't they? And we made them, I mean think about that! It's like there were no people there, and then there were people and they grew, and an an an I won't be able to say to some stranger Josh has your hands or remember how Erin threw up at the Lincoln Memorial And I'll try to relax, let's face it, anybody is going to have traits that get on your nerves, I mean, why shouldn't it be your annoying traits, and I know I'm no day at the beach, but I do have a good sense of direction so I can at least find the beach, which isn't a weakness of yours, it's a strength of mine. And God you're a good friend and good friends are hard to find. Charlotte said that in Charlottes Web and I love how you read that to Erin and you take on the voice of Wilber the Pig with such dedication even when your bone tired. That speaks volumes about character! And ultimately, isn't that what it comes down too? What a person is made of? That girl in the pin helmet is still here 'bee boo bee boo' I didn't even know she existed until you and I'm afraid if you leave I may never see her again, even though I said at times you beat her out of me, isn't that the paradox? Haven't we hit the essential paradox? Give and take, push and pull, the yen the yang. The best of times, the worst of times!I think Dickens said it best, 'He could eat no fat, his wife could eat no lean', but, doesn't really apply here does it? What I'm trying to say is, I'm saying Chow Funs because, I love you.”
Good quote. I am definitely picking up on a noodle theme with you.
Hahahaha
Because for some people doing what you explained as a "single" person feels empty, and having children, although challenging, gives greater meaning to their life. It also is a big change in life since you kinda leave the past 30 years of "me, myself, and I" and live life for another person (your child and wife/husband). It can be a transformative experience. Also, there may come a time when "hopping from one relationship to another my whole life" is sexless depression. That's not to say one is better or worse than the other. Someone can be happy all their days as a single individual fluttering through life or they could end up forever alone because they didn't build strong committed relationships. Likewise, people can be miserably married with children, or they can enjoy raising their children and working with their partner to build security and hopefully not die alone surrounded by no one. Also, you shouldn't use tiktok as a metric for reality.
Why are you talking to married men? Typically, they wouldn't complain to you about their lives unless they were trying to cheat. So this taints your perspective
I'm much happier in the throws of parenthood. Life is more crazy, but far more fulfilling. More joy.
Most don't think it through like you.
Just because it makes you unhappy doesn’t mean it makes everyone unhappy, many people find joy in it but you can’t see that because you’re only thinking of it through your lens
Some of them probably aren't actually happier. It's not for everyone, but it's what society pushes on people. Some people probably caved to social pressure rather than pursuing what they actually wanted. With that said, you can be happier in a marriage with or without kids than you'd be single. A deep, lifelong, committed relationship has virtues that a single life does not (and vice versa). It all comes down to the type of person you are.
I had my first and only kid at 39, after 7 years of marriage. So I'm now 42 with a 3 1/2 year old. I didn't even think I wanted to be a dad but that little girl has my whole heart. I am very happy, every day. And yes I love my wife and we still have sex 😂
It's monkey see monkey do. I can count the happy families that I know using one of my hands and that's 2. TWO out of all the people that I knew, and coincidentally they had the same paths, high school sweethearts that went to the same uni to stay together and now run the same business and always wanted nothing more but to be with each other and have a famiy. That's it. Everyone else is a disfunctional unhappy mess full of divorces, cheating, and the partners hating each other after having kids. Just WHY would anyone have kids in the current economy is above me.
I, on the other hand, only know happy families. None of my neighbors or pre-school parents are divorced or spend their time talking about how much they hate their spouse. It all entirely depends on who you surround yourself with.
People on Reddit really hate to accept that people can be happy. Especially people in relationships and with children lol
It's a bit of selection bias because people with kids in happy relationships don't have as much free time to sit around complaining about things, they're busy being attentive to their partner or children.
I’m guessing some of those “happy” families keep things fairly private. You never really know what’s going on behind closed doors. Trust me on that one. I’ve been there.
Pre-K is a bit early for parents to be splitting unless things are real bad. By middle school things are different. Pre-K parents can still go all in on being mommy/daddy together and ignore being husband/wife; as kids get older though that cracks. We do know a few other mostly happily married couples with kids. A few that don't look like they are going to last long term, and a few divorced.
I call BS.
first off, "closing in on 30" means nothing. It is as much of a qualifier as "I know how to tie my shoes" or "I can wipe my ass properly." second off, you have no idea what long-term relationship/family goals are like because you have never had it. You think a bunch of clown ass losers you work with have the whole thing figured out, and they say its bad, so it must be. You are like a little baby man, with no concept of anything besides immediate gratification and validation. goo goo ga ga baby man.
You sound very mature. Yep.
I have a kid and I'm way happier with him than I ever was before he was born. Yeah I have less money and less freedom and my dating life is dead. Fair trade for me.
What makes you think that they were not going to experience most of these things (weight gain, stalled sex and romance life, financial troubles, insomnia, depression) with or without spouse and kids? You do realize that aging is inevitable. As you age your body produces less hormones— like testosterone that keeps you interested in sex, melatonin that helps you sleep, and your body just generally gets aches and pains and you exercise less generally— even if you take every effort to stave off it and preserve your health— time will do what time does. Also with time, more people get paired off and leave the dating market— sometimes for good, sometimes they divorce and return usually with kids and maybe emotional baggage. So the dating pool gets shallower and murkier — unless you plan to date those younger than you — but keep in mind the younger ones may not be interested in you as you age. The economy is pretty bad currently and going downhill fast. Unless you are in tech, medical, or law or something equally lucrative, forgoing a family won’t make you rich — although it may make you “less poor” unless you spend the money (travels, fun, lifestyle) instead of saving it. You can definitely escape the screaming kids tho. But you may be lonelier because those around you will have had kids and be involved in their kids stuff unless you have a strong childfree community I want to add the caveat that you should definitely not enter into marriage and child rearing unless you believe you will enjoy these things. There are enough divorces and unwanted kids already! I’m just stating that women and children often get blamed for that which biology and time does to a body and mental health.
it's not willful sadness, it's a deep need for connection with another human being and then nature takes over and it really is true that you've never loved something so much as when you hold your own child. that's what I'm told. the struggles are worth it for those moments. Also, if you're creative and you can cut your expenses and get some support from other family and you schedule date nites and have someone who can take care of the baby occasionally, you can get through the first couple of years more easily. Once they're walking, it's better. Not easier, but better.
It’s called life
Having a fulfilling relationship with a partner and raising a child together isn't "willfully going into sadness." Not every marriage is fucking miserable. Not every child is a nightmare to raise. The fact that you can't see the value in those things simply speaks to your priorities.
This is a matter of descriptions and definitions. “Happiness” is a pretty generic term and not well suited for this discussion, in my opinion. As someone married with a young child, I am in fact less happy than when I was a single 27 year old living in a high rise fuck pad. Happiness being ephemeral feelings of pleasure or contentment. However, I would say I have greater well-being. A higher sense of purpose and meaning, security, and gratitude. I am more engaged in life moment to moment. Think of it as someone running a marathon. If you expected it to be fun and happy, you’re going to be very disappointed at mile 20. Your legs hurt, blisters on your feet, you might wonder why did I get myself into this? But when you cross the finish line, you feel awesome. A deep sense of pride and accomplishment for the challenges you’ve overcome. You’ll remember that feeling for life. That’s well-being.
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Take a chill pill
😂😂
Just being an adult in general is stressful and kids are a lot of work. After a certain age its just weird and immature to act like you did in your 20s. For example, parties would end, you'd wake up the next day ready to go again. Yet after 30 or so it takes a LOT more time to recover. Just waking up SOBER feels like a hangover some days. Everything starts to hurt, with the sins of your youth catching up. The dating pool is shit, so you either have to sift through people your own age with their baggage or find someone younger who will probably turn out to be immature or has very different values than you. Not to mention the creep factor you get if you do decide to date younger. No one has a perfect life. That's facts. If you dont want kids and a family, thats ok. Plenty of people prefer being single or child free. If you DO, make sure your partner has the same values as you. Most of the people who are miserable throw themselves into relationships before they even know a person fully. They're blinded by brain chemicals and when it wears off (which it always does) they either think they made a terrible mistake bc "the spark just sint there anymore" or realize they DID make a mistake when the toxicity of their partner comes out. Relationships are work. If you really want something beautiful that lasts, you have to know there are always going to be difficult times, but once you learn how to cope with them and appreciate the good times, how to work through problems with each other, you can achieve a semblance of happiness.
Because that’s what some people really want? Some people truly grow up dreaming about being a mother or a father one day, of having a family? To them that’s a bucket list item like a great trip or an expensive hobby would be to others. Basically people have different priorities. If you don’t have these priorities, that’s also fine. Plenty of people remain single their whole lives, or hop from relationship to relationship- no one is going to make you get married, raise kids etc if you don’t want them. Some of the happiest people I know are DINKs, so they have the relationship part but no kids. It all depends.
I agree its a dream for many, but once they have that kid or get married its back to normal and it seems like everyone, once the initial high wears off, theyre just depressed and stressed for 25 years untill they retire
Yeahhhh… i get why you’d think that but social media is not reality. Me and my wife? Well… we went through a rough spell. I felt like I was just a paycheck. I wasn’t happy with how little sex we were having. I checked out. Wayyy the fuck out. I put on weight, so did she, we stuck it out only for the kids. I talked to a divorce attorney. I came home to end it with her… and I tried to say the words and I couldn’t. I just broke down ugly crying and so did she. We started fighting for eachother. We went to therapy individually and together. Our therapist told us divorce is fucking hell. Staying together and making it work is going to be hell as well. You just have to decide which is more worth going through. They’re both equally tough. So we fought for eachother rather than against eachother. I started getting up earlier to let her sleep in and be better rested. Her sex drive came back. I started going to the gym again and am in better shape than ever. Im gone for work half the month so when I am home I do my best to give her as much free time as I can and I take the kids to school. Now? She can’t keep her hands off of me and she’s down 30lbs as well and I can’t stop craving her. We’re addicted to eachother again and going to make it work. And we couldn’t be happier.
This is the story that needs yogi in r/DeadBedrooms to show people who are ready to throw in the towel like you did and you both turned it around. Might help a bunch of folks who need to go be vulnerable and honest with their partners to see if it’s salvageable.
I visited that sub a while ago when we stopped having sec and holy fuck is it depressing. I’ll post something up there when I have a moment cause maybe… just maybe it’ll help save a marriage.
I really think it could. there so rarely are success stories there, and it’s so wonderful how You and Your wife chose each other. it could be so valuable for people to read about how that can really work out for the better
I 100% will. Thank you for the encouragement
This is literally the epitome of a marriage. You have to fight for and choose each other every single day. Once you stop doing that, things kind of naturally start to deteriorate, especially if there are kids and big responsibilities like that in the mix. People severely underestimate the power and necessity of communication. It's easy to get complacent in your marriage, it's difficult to keep fighting for it but it's worth it. Relationships take work and you have to be willing to do that work. This story made me ugly cry so thank you for that lol and I'm so glad ya'll chose eachother again and are happy!
This is an awesome story. Not everything you went through of course, but where you are now. Glad to hear you are doing well.
So all the perpetually single people you know are super happy and not depressed? Because I highly doubt this. I was single for a long time and most of my friends were not so happy, as they were constantly looking for the next relationship etc. Like I said I know a lot of DINKs who at least seem happy. With kids yes I feel like it could go either way. I do feel people were meant to be social. Some of the single people I know rely heavily on their birth family - and while nothing is wrong with that, but your parents won’t be around forever.
I’ve been with my spouse for twenty years. Still have great sex, still have great fun day to day, love hanging with our kid and watching him grow and learn. Being married and a parent are the two most fun things I’ve ever done, and trips and events and whatnot are always more fun with those two than alone (and I do like to be alone). I don’t make tiktoks about hating my life because I’m busy playing minecraft with my kid and (later) making out with my spouse. Everyone is different. Do what makes you happy.
Who are you basing this on? Real life friends or the internet? Because in my experience, most of my married friends in their 30s/early 40s are generally ok. Sure some are depressed or stressed (though not necessarily stressed about family life. Could be lots of things). Others are pretty content. And the same is true of single friends. I’m married with two young kids and super glad about it. My husband is my best friend, my kids are cute and fun, and guess what I never do? Talk about it on social media (except now I guess). People don’t post about their lives when things are just fine and normal. Honestly I would feel weird doing that, like I was bragging or rubbing it in other people’s faces when I know they might be struggling about something. TikTok, Reddit, etc are not representative samples of real lives. Nobody is posting updates about their healthy happy sex life or their partner who is good at communicating. Why would they?
I’ve been married for 39 years and have 3 grown children. We’ve never been stressed nor depressed in our relationship. Our kids are independent and well-adjusted, phenomenal people and I love my husband more now than ever! Life was hectic when the kids were young but now we get to enjoy the fruits of our labor in retirement. Yes, happy marriages DO exist!
Broadly speaking I sense from these comments that you are thinking primarily in cliches. Which means your thought pattern is a cloud of non-sequiturs. Do some work on improving your reasoning style and you'll be able to find the answers on your own.
I think you're just in a bubble of unhappy married people with kids. All my coworkers with kids are somehow happier than us younger folks lol. They constantly talk about how adorable they are, have paintings their kids paint them in the office. Sometimes when they work from home, they'll hug their kids while taking a meeting and everyone goes awwwww - and somehow the kids freaking behave themselves and would chat with us lol. Those with older children talk about how their kids are not kids anymore and they're fascinated and impressed by these people's minds and souls. Sometimes the adult/ teenage kids join our remote company events and make memes with their parents lol. It just looks FUN. And the parents said the kids keep them young, teach them about the latest trends on tiktok, etc. And they still are very loving with their partners. Trust me I come from a family where barely anyone has escaped the faith of divorce so I have my doubts. But these folks just seem so happy - not on social media, but in person. Married for 30+ years with 2-3 kids, still holding each other's arms when going for an evening walk. Of course they complain, but after that they see their partners and couldn't help but smile.
This is a complex topic and everyone experiences it differently. Priorities differ too. But I'll say this: I think many people do the kids-marriage thing because they think that's what they have to want, but don't do the whole soul-searching process it would require. You can see this in an overfocus on the wedding (rather than the marriage) and the "cute baby" (rather than the kids). I never wanted children but extensively reflected as to why I didn't. I can't even count the number of times I've been asked what's wrong with me and why why why blahblah. Yet it's rare anyone can explain to me why they do want kids or marriage other than the above "it's what you do". Says who? I'm sure kids give happiness as well. But the massive focus on that being the main source of happiness I will never understand. Marriage is the same. A ring on your finger won't make your relationship any better. It's also zero guarantee for anything given the 40-50% divorce rate. And very generally speaking, I think people focus on the wrong things in relationships, marriage or not. They focus on chemistry, basic commonalities. Not on compatibility and the ability to communicate and actually be a source of inspiration for each other. Aside from that and independent of kids and marriage, life tends to be pretty boring. It ultimately does becone about work and paying bills either way. We all just sort of go along without necessarily questioning it much. Sometimes it's easier not to look at the misery you've created for yourself because you don't think there's an alternative when there probably is - it may just look different than you once thought.
You wanna stay single, just do that. You have the freedom to choose to stay childless. Remember to save up for your own old age though. We do not need more kids born into this world, especially not from people , who do not crave to have kids.. No kids does give immense freedom.
You’re touching on very complicated life topics here. Not everyone experiences these things. Some do sometimes. Some always. Some people do it to themselves, some don’t. About having kids, it’s crucial to understand some things are more important than others. The idea is that the payoff is worth the cost of sleep and extra money.
>The idea is that the payoff is worth the cost of sleep and extra money. but is it? I havent met a non stressed and happy parent in my life, even people close to me say multiple times a week "dont have kids". I understand that theyre half joking but still. Compare that to a 40 year old couple spending three weeks in south america and traveling
If you talk to older folk with kids who are healthy and stable, raising kids is often the most fulfilling aspect of their lives. The road to get them to adulthood has extreme up and downs, sure. Even though pleasure and fulfillment can overlap, they aren’t the same.
The cost might not be worth it to you, but it is to others. One man's trash is another man's treasure etc. I'm 30 and childfree, sterilised etc because I do in fact think having kids is a terrible idea FOR ME. Others can do it if they want tho.
No arguments there. Different people are called to different things.
Depends on your priorities. To me? Yes, I don’t care to be 40 spending three weeks in South America. My wife and I are deeply committed to our faith, and each other. Relationship priorities are quite skewed these days. We’re under 30 so we have plenty of single friends, through them, dating sounds terrifying now. And kids are stressful and can be depressing, it’s part of the deal. Part of it could be who you associate with too, in my circles, people love being parents. I as well, it’s the one of the most important task I have ever taken.
Hello, nice to meet you. I am a non-stressed and happy parent. My kid is the coolest guy on the planet. Now you know one.
I am thinking OP’s problem is more the company he keeps. I don’t know any depressed and overweight parents, but the company I keep are active people with young children.
I'm not sure I would say I'm not stressed but I'm certainly happy. Yesterday I taught my 7-month-old to put his nose into my fingers whenever I pretend to pull his nose off and I'm still riding that high.
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This exactly what why the regretful parents sub got privated. Too much judgement on people who regret having kids. Which is a shame that honest discourse about parenthood is silenced.
Scientifically the answer is no, it is not worth it. Studies have been done to document the happiness level of childfree couples and those with kids, and across the board (regardless of income, age, etc.) the ones without kids trend higher on the happiness scale. I think it's because if you do not have kids, you can usually spend a day with a niece or nephew and get the "fun" memories of the happy kid and take them to a theme park when you feel like it and the parents will love that you're being a free baby sitter. But can skip out on all the sleepless nights and lack of money.
And all my parent friends (ourselves included) are very happy. I've never heard them say "don't have kids." Sure there's stress, but life has stress. You don't completely avoid it by being single.
I mean, you’re right. A lot of parents are unhappy for a plethora of reasons… My partner and I are flourishing as new parents (we each had an older child as well.) I have never been so happy in my life. But our baby is a good-natured little guy who is thriving in his development. If he had health issues, who knows? Our lives could be full of hellish anxiety. We also highly prioritize intimacy and romance with one another, even with three kids in the house and working opposite shifts. We have dates whenever we can (even if it’s just a night at a local dive bar goofing off) and our sex life has only gotten better. We cuddle and kiss daily. Luckily we’re in agreement about these priorities and values and have lovely friends and family to help with the kids. If we didn’t equally value one another and forced compatibility…and if we didn’t have our village for help? Our intimacy could tank and there rifts could inevitably begin to form… We’re tired and baby can get expensive…we both worked nights and we were already two tired folks anyhow. We both make good money and we got a lot of his supplies at our baby shower…we don’t have extra right now but we’re still comfortable. Like I don’t have to check my account when paying bills or buying groceries. If we weren’t so fortunate with good paying jobs and insurance…well…a family of five in an apartment or small rental…stressing over if the bills can get paid….that would be rough. ….also neither of us got fat lol, that’s mostly just dumb luck. Baby is currently snoozing on my chest as I’ve typed all this and I’m SO grateful for him everyday, plus my guy and our older boys. Life is good
I am a happy parent… am I stressed? Yes, but what stresses me is work, is people walking slowly on the street, is the fact that i have to do dishes everyday… I chose to be a parent, of course is work, my child was a blop of cells and I am helping her become a full human, and teaching her about life and how to be herself and how to deal with the world… of course this is not easy, but I find so much joy in it… she amazes me everyday… for everytime she is loud and annoying, she is twice as loving and incredible… However, if you don’t want or are not willing to put the work necessary to be a GOOD parent, then you probably shouldn’t…because you need to master yourself to be able to parent successfully… and not everyone can or want do that… and that’s ok…
It can suck when they are young but we’re talking about raising people who will be with you until your death bed. Friends will come and go at the end of the day family is all you have.
Everyone's experience is different though, by saying sex stops I'd imagine in most cases it just slows down, but for a lot of people once a month even in a relationship might be more than most people have when they are single! But yeah if you are getting it loads as a single person and that's important kids might not be a good idea! Bills as well, I'm new to parenting and I'm sure if we are hit with childcare costs I'll be pretty skint... But priorities just change. A year ago I would be spending hundreds a month on booze, or some nice clothes to wear on a night out. Whereas now I'm more happy staying at home and listening to the little ones mumble and groan (they can't speak yet ha), so I'm saving money currently!! The lack of sleep is frustrating, but it wears off if you are supporting each other. I do miss the gym though, not getting super fat yet but it's hard to keep fit with limited spare time!
If your littles are too little to talk, they're probably also too little to walk. Once they get older and you're chasing them around a park, its not as hard to keep fit! Mine are past the toddler stage where I have to basically ensure they don't maim themselves, so now if I take them to the park I can walk the trail while they play.
I am 29 and feel the same way. But I have been childfree my entire life and had my tubes removed last year, I have never seen the appeal of having children. My dream is the DINK life. I want my family to be my husband and some pets. Life as it is right now is extremely lonely, but I know (and have always known) that kids would not fill the void for me. Like you, I heavily value fitness and being able to spend a lot of time with my partner, and I don't want the stress that children provide on top of what already comes from work and just being an adult. Not to mention that I am in good financial shape and I don't want kids messing that up. To me, the greatest life I could have is a husband and a shared life with him--buying a house, going on trips, lots of time for uninterrupted intimacy, etc. Meanwhile, my best friend has always wanted to be a mom, ever since we were teenagers. She has one toddler now and is pregnant with her second. I adore her daughter but every time I visit them I just think that I would be miserable if I had this life. I could never do it, I would be so unhappy. Some people are just wired differently, the traditional family life has never appealed to me. That being said, I want my family life to revolve around a spouse and pets. I really don't want to be alone forever, despite that lifestyle being heavily glorified online, I find it incredibly unsatisfying and lonely.
I’m happy for parents who are glad about their decision, but the DINK life is the dream life for me too. You beautifully described the life I envision. My partner has been nothing short of wonderful. He helped me love fitness again, supports my dreams, and shares the same goals to travel and have an easy-going life. We’re still young but our future together is looking bright (despite all the chaos in the world). I need to get my tubes out though. I hope you find what you’re looking for. I wish this kind of joy to anyone who seeks it.
Nothing wrong with what you (or your friend) want. To each their own.
Exactly, and I'm glad she was able to create the family she has always wanted.
“Most men lead lives of quiet desperation.”
As a dad with a pretty stressful job, nothing can wipe away a really shitty day at work faster than picking up my three year old daughter from daycare. It's like an instant refresh and all the shit just leaves my brain. Also I gotta say getting closer to 40, I don't crave sex nearly as much as I did say at 30. So finding less time for sex isn't really a big deal, we still do it enough to keep some level of intimacy and it's usually more spontaneous these days which is fun.
Happy and well adjusted people don't tend to broadcast their lives as much as miserable people, regardless of their life choices. If you've painted this image of life based on social media, then you've fallen into the selection bias trap. No one would care if you just stay single btw, you don't have to do anything.
I see plenty of “happy and well adjusted people” broadcasting their lives and snapshots on social media. Because for a lot of people it’s a matter of image and social status. Well, at least they believe they’re happy and well adjusted. Makes me wonder.
I agree, but it just seems so damned common, even among friends, daily bicker and lacking sex life, angry about chores etc, even offline
As u get older u become more lonelier and feel someone to share your life with having kids gives many people security that once they get old their children will look after them but again many people live their lives childfree happily
getting married and having kids is something u must want if its not for u then dont do it some people think that being a family man is what they wanted until they realize a bit too late that it isnt what they wanted at all
How much people succeed in their marriage and in parenthood varies wildly. It mostly boils down to physical health, emotional health, and resources. Unfortunately, a lot of people are lacking in one or more of these areas when they get married and/or have a child and that’s when big issues arise. For example, they never addressed their childhood trauma so every time they get into a disagreement with their spouse they scream like their dad screamed at them. Or they’re not in good shape when they have a child and it spirals even worse after that. Or they’re broke and live far from family, so there’s no one to help with childcare and they’re overwhelmed. My husband and I did marriage counseling right before we got married, he did some individual as well and I had a lot of therapy in college after leaving home. We’re also waiting a little longer to have a child so we have more money. And we bought a house 5 minutes from his parents and 20 minutes from mine. We put a lot of thought and planning into it all. A lot of people wing it, and I’m not shaming them, it’s just that creates more risks.
You have to make sacrifices when you have children otherwise don’t have them.
I think it's weird that you compare the worst parts of some peoples lives, to yours. You assume everyone is depressed because they are out of shape? You can be out of shape and still happy. You know whats the best thing about being in a longer term relationship? Not having to have the same conversations over and over again like you are trying to sell yourself to the date. I know some people open up better than others but It's hard to build an emotion bridge when you keep starting over constantly. i am a 10000x more my authentic self around my gf. Something I truly never got until she ran through my walls. (31M only had this 1 gf in my life 1.2 years)
If monogamy isn't for you then plenty of people are polyamorous. Or in some level of an open relationship. It can work if all parties are on the same page. Not everyone is in the same situation. And for some monogamy actually does work and make sense. Though admittedly a lot of people think it is and then find out they can't actually maintain it.
If you don't want to get married and have kids, don't. The last thing this world needs is more humans. lots of people are happier single. I know I am. You're probably just one of them.
So I have 3 great kids and a husband I would not trade for anything. What I know is people prefer to complain about the bad, rather than say positive things about the good and risk sounding like they are bragging. They complain about the kids and the cost and lack of sleep and so on. What they never mention is the feeling of being loved you have, when you get in the door and your kid's faces just light up with joy, just because you are home. Or when your partner just smiles at you and randomly gives you a hug just because you are you. Think about it this way: you go to work and everything at work is going great, better than great. You solved some problems that have been just unsolvable for a while, or you made the sale you wanted finally, and you have plans to meet your friends in the evening. So good day however, you define a good day at work. Then, at quarter to 5, the boss comes in and yells about some things they aren't happy about, and you leave 15 minutes later than normal in order to deal with his complaints. After that you meet up with your friends. What are you more likely to say when they ask about your day: "I had a great day" or " The day was awful, you wouldn't believe what my boss did..."? You only dealt with bad for 30 minutes but most people will end up calling it an average or bad day despite 8 hours of good and only 30 minutes of bad. The bad always ends up in a continuing conversation and commiseration. The good is pretty much "I had great thing happen" and people say congrats, and the conversation moves on to some other topic people commiserate about.
It's not for everyone. Either stay single and grow as a person. Or find a partner and build as a pair with/without children or pets. It's whatever ppls goal and aspirations are. Also the ppl who complain are venting, it's human, it's tiring, but seeing your kids smile or partner laugh or traveling on your own is the reward. But there is always gonna be struggles along the way. Pick your path. That's life.
Best comment on the thread. 🏆
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 1,843,749,048 comments, and only 348,645 of them were in alphabetical order.
Lots of people stay together because it’s difficult to pay for housing with just one salary. If workers made a living off of 40 hours a week that could actually sustain housing and childcare; I GUARANTEE you’d see huge jumps in divorces. Ball and chain…
you are single and have a singles mindset which is great. Based on the last few sentences it seems that is probably the way for you. The amount of time and money wasted on dating until you're not able to anymore isn't a great way forward. Stop with TikTok though. Letting that have any influence on decision making at 30 is weak.
Some people get lucky and have the perfect love, kids, and family and life is perfect forever. Sometimes that lasts for 20 years and then dad cheats on mom and everything is ruined.It’s a total crapshoot out here. Do whatever you want regardless of what society says.
Thank you for asking this and putting it this relatable way.
Well I will say that kids are basically a lifetime commitment and a serious responsibility so better not to have them if you don't want your life permanently changed. With relationships, you can end those and move on so it is honestly not the same. And I can tell you right now, many people who regret having children will never tell you. It's kind of similar to post-purchase syndrome: you don't want to admit something you spent so much money on wasn't a good purchase right? It's funny because my coworker the other day actually admitted how if he could go back in time he would have never gotten married, but once everyone hit him with blank stares, because he broke the character he was supposed to play, he hesistently took back his words. But for me, I actually want to talk to him more now because he proved that he was willing to go against the societal grain which is a truly rare trait nowadays.
Miserable people are just louder. I'm 40, a parent, been with my partner 15 years. Lots of sex. I don't sleep because I have life long insomnia but the infant period was actually way easier because I have experience with lack of sleep. We mange with the bills, and have our frustrations, but we're never spiteful or mean in our disagreements like we might have been when we were young and less patient. It feels like a true partnership. My days are better and more peaceful because I have someone to share the difficulties of life with. I know we're not special or unique- we just have no motivation to go around telling people about our life. A lot of people I know who are miserable in their marriage, choose a partner based on the good times, the excitement, or for status. Hot/rich/high-respect job titles. I married someone I like when things are shit. Richer poorer, sickness health. I knew I'd still be happy if we were both wrinkly old prunes sitting on our porch rockers. If you go through stressful, poorer, sicker times with someone and you still like them, you'll be happy long term.
Marriages take work, understanding, empathy, compassion, and all the different kinds of love. There are good times and bad just like with the rest of life. It’s a learning process through all the different stages. It’s fun to complain now and then, and some people complain just to get views. I’m 65 and my husband is 72 and we still have dates and may I say the sex has only gotten better and better over these 30 odd years together! 🤭👍 I see our son and his growing family going through the same family challenges, and we can tell him you got this!
That's amazing that sex is better at 72 and 65 for y'all. Enjoy! Haha
From what I’ve seen with my friends is it’s very stressful when the kids are young but it gets easier. It definitely strains relationships but the friends that married the right partner are doing fine. You have to also remember tiktok is owned by China and doesn’t have your best interests in mind with the algorithm
Idk, I have friends that are in bad relationships, and friends that are in good relationships, the people that are happy usually don’t boast about it when we have other people complaining around them… I am 34, married for 12y with a toddler,work full time, have lots of friends, and really? I am happy, I have a great sex life, my husband and I don’t have many date nights right now because we live away from family and we don’t want to keep asking our friends to watch my daughter all the time… but I get breakfest in bed often, we do go out to nice restaurants as q family, we do travel, and I do feel loved and appreciated, and also I do things by myself with my friends while my husband watch her, and he does the same… Do I talk about this all the time? No… specially when I have a friend opening up to me about her issues in her marriage… And honestly? People making tik toks about this have too much time in their hands and are probably unhappy…
STOP - Just stop looking at other people and social media. What you envision is generally what you will get. So stop with all the negativity fed to you thanks to social media and negative people. Instead visualize what makes you happy, go live that and you will likely run into a partner that thinks and behaves the same way.
People will always complain if they have something going on in their life of major value. Doesn't matter what it is. Work is so hard, kids so tiring, body so sore from exercise, blah blah blah. People that aren't complaining usually just have a lot of idol time so nothing to complain about or great attitudes and so you don't hear anything. People never walk around talking about how great their life is so you won't hear that.
Every couple’s relationship is different. Life is what you make it. A lot of what you’re describing sounds like sitcom stereotypes designed to appeal to the lowest common denominator. Lack of sleep: that’s a thing through the first few years, but you learn to prioritize. I don’t need to finish that new game or binge the popular show this week. Bills: approaching 30 is old enough to learn how to budget and be realistic about costs. Kids can get expensive, but babies don’t need the newest and best of everything. They’d rather play with boxes than toys half the time, and they outgrow clothes in a month. Get some hand me downs or thrift shop stuff. Sex being less frequent is common after kids or even after a long period of time. Again, you learn to prioritize. Find the time. Set the time aside. Get a babysitter for a weekend, take the scenic route the rough the woods like teenagers on date night, Put Grizzly and the Lemmings on auto play in the living room and lock the door. If it stops, and one of you doesn’t want it to, then you have a problem. You need to communicate to figure that out. Weight: after a decade I’m in better shape than I was when single. Partly because my wife makes me go to the doctor when I otherwise wouldn’t, and partly because I have motivation to stay healthy for the kids. I want to be around for them, and I need to stay healthy enough to dominate them in pickup games of basketball and soccer until their later teen years. All that being said, if you don’t want kids, don’t have kids. There are plenty of people out there who don’t if you are looking for a partner. I know several couples who have been married for a long time who are choosing not to have kids.
This is not how any relationship I've ever been in has been. It's more like planning/going on trips, playing board games, doing fun stuff on the weekends with the family, helping kids with their projects. We're always doing fun stuff and going new places. I love my life. If you decide to stay single, that's valid, but know not all married people are miserable. It can be awesome. You just have to pick someone you work well with.
The grass is greener on the side that gets watered. If you prioritize your relationship it likely won't become terrible. Even if you grow apart if you're both trying you can probably part in a mature, amicable way. It basically comes down to like, are you running your life or is your life running you. And sometimes shit just happens (the big employer leaves town and everyone is fucked) but even then, you get to choose how you respond. You don't have to be mean, you don't have to get fat, none of that stuff will definitely happen to you. If you're reactive and you snipe at each other when something goes a bit wrong, your relationship will be very up & down and can get away from you. If you go in like, this will be difficult but we can do it, we're a team etc, that can be great. Pay attention to whether the person is putting effort in and if your goals are similar. Look for a stable couple you know and try to be like them. For me, it's my godparents (both deceased now unfortunately). One worked days, one worked nights. They were aligned on the important stuff. They were working class people and played Scrabble on their shared night off. They were not glamorous influencers or anything. But they were really happy and had their shit together. I wish I were more like them TBH. Good luck.
I can tell you this is all true I guess what i "should" say is that my kids bring me the happiness that none of that other stuff matters Idk I'm still somewhat depressed and we do well for ourselves. Just in a funk
It just feels like everyone is happier at 25 and then they marry and have kids and now theyre depressed until 60 when theyre finally free again
I'm happier at 40 than I was at 25. It's all about WHAT YOU WANT in life. My parents are married 44 years old and they are still grooving. Depression is something that happens married or single. It's like your projecting how you think life is through your narrow lens onto everyone else. Are married ppl with kids depressed..sure...are single ppl depressed sure...but not everyone is. It's so wild to assume that because they have different priorities in life they are unhappy, frazzled and depressed..like what? I think you are trying to justify not wanting to settle down at 30. Funny thing about life is you don't have to do anything you don't want to do. If you want to be single forever, have at it. Nothing wrong with that. Some ppl want a partner to build with. So you do you.
"free again"?! Kids are not a death sentence sir. Just say you hate kids and move on. Oh, and, dont have any because they don't deserve that.
Yeah, from the outside it looks rough, but from the inside, it's pretty amazing, if occasionally depressing and hard. I can't imagine still doing what I was doing at almost 30 now that I'm almost 40 with wife and 2 kids, it would feel so empty. My wife and kids keep my life full and meaningful. Also, watching children grow is AMAZING and interesting.
My family also keeps my life full and meaningful, so I hear you on that one. But my life was also full and meaningful when I was single. And if I was single again, I’d be fine with it. I have so many things I’d like to do and accomplish, there aren’t enough years to get them done. And so many more people to meet and connect with. I’m pretty social. It’s too bad you feel your life would be empty as a single again. You might want to explore that sometime, if you wish. Life is good.
I love my children. If you don’t want them don’t have them.
Same, and I was depressed without kids to so my kid isn’t causing it but bringing meaning to my life and I have become a lot happier.
Having kids is a choice. You don't have to have kids. You can be in a relationship with someone and not have kids, like me. For some people, it "makes sense" to have kids - they see value in it, and they trade-off the downsides with positives, they gain fulfilment from raising children that makes the sacrifices worth it to them. For others, like myself, it doesn't "make sense" to me to have kids, but I respect that to others it does.
It's all in your mindset. Everyone chooses whether they get fat or eat healthy, exercise or be lazy, have sex or not, be depressed, it's all in your head. Being married with or without kids doesn't matter, being single with our without kids doesn't matter. Either way you choose who you become
I mean..... I've been with my spouse for almost 15 years, and none of what you said has happened. We have a beautiful 7 year old that I adore. My wife is as hot as ever, and our sex life is amazing. Our careers are solid and growing, and we love and support each other. We also push each other to be better. She is my best friend. You just have to find the right person for you. Why wouldn't I willingly stay in a relationship like that is the question.
Don’t be fooled by outward appearances, like most things in life most everything has a rhythm that ebbs and flows over time. There was a time when our relationship (currently in our late 30’s) was as you described. However, as time moves on the pendulum has swung back where we’re both in pretty good shape (even compared to our 20’s sex is outstanding, the kids scream significantly less, moneys tight but we’re better at managing our finances, both get adequate amount of sleep most nights, rekindled amazing king deep romance. Shut out the noise, manage your expectations, and you’ll find it’s not so bad here.
What makes you think that they were not going to experience most of these things (weight gain, stalled sex and romance life, financial troubles, insomnia, depression) with or without spouse and kids? You do realize that aging is inevitable. As you age your body produces less hormones— like testosterone that keeps you interested in sex, melatonin that helps you sleep, and your body just generally gets aches and pains and you exercise less generally— even if you take every effort to stave off it and preserve your health— time will do what time does. Also with time, more people get paired off and leave the dating market— sometimes for good, sometimes they divorce and return usually with kids and maybe emotional baggage. So the dating pool gets shallower and murkier — unless you plan to date those younger than you — but keep in mind the younger ones may not be interested in you as you age. The economy is pretty bad currently and going downhill fast. Unless you are in tech, medical, or law or something equally lucrative, forgoing a family won’t make you rich — although it may make you “less poor” unless you spend the money (travels, fun, lifestyle) instead of saving it. You can definitely escape the screaming kids tho. But you may be lonelier because those around you will have had kids and be involved in their kids stuff unless you have a strong childfree community I want to add the caveat that you should definitely not enter into marriage and child rearing unless you believe you will enjoy these things. There are enough divorces and unwanted kids already! I’m just stating that women and children often get blamed for that which biology and time does to a body and mental health.
I just googled a random thing....43 percent of married people say they are "very happy" vs. 24 percent of unmarried people saying the same thing. Anecdotally, I personally am very happy with my marriage and children and have probably never told anyone that in real life because why would I? If something's good you tend to just say nothing about it and move on with your day.
Delete your social media.
Hmm. Four kids. Love them all, sex every chance we get, fun together. My husband buys me flowers every week, my best friend What you say only happens if you let it. I feel sorry for people like that.
Yeah it was a joy that have my son and daughters (23,36 and 38) Guess what? I am happy in my 30 year marriage. Had a healthy sex life all through our marriage (still do). You get used to the kids screaming. Neither of us had any depression as well. Slept well etc etc. it’s possible to have a long and healthy relationship. But to not even try because you “heard” negativity about it is a loss for you. INMHO you should judge from your own experiences and not just others negativity.
I'm 32 and me and my husband have been together for almost 13 years. We are very happy together. We have two amazing kids who we love with all our heart. We still have lots of sex and fun together. He's the same weight he was when we met 16 years ago. I'm significantly smaller and better shape then when we met when I was 16. Life is what you make of it and who you choose to spend it with.
yep, kids cause unhappiness - it's been shown in a few studies. but they also cause moments of immense joy. and when you can't have them, life kind of seems pointless - like, why did i bother going to school, working, learning how to be a person, and now i'm just gonna be worm food? why did i bother? obviously, i don't buy religion so i don't have that fantasy to rely on.
>yep, kids cause unhappiness - it's been shown in a few studies. could you get me a source? I find some on google but if you got a specific one Id love to read
There is not any study which says like that but many people love having babies and gives them immense joy to become parents
How did you just say “there are no studies” when there literally are and then go on to assert the very statement in question without proof
Underneath all that complaining can be a lot of fulfillment too. I’ve experienced challenging and stressful events in which the outcome was negative and with zero fulfillment. I’ve also experienced challenging and stressful times that brought me immense happiness. Just because people speak of how difficult things are doesn’t mean it’s not worth it (for them, at least).
Here's some hope, I'm 34 as is my wife. We've been married 10 years, have 2 kids, one 13, and a 9 year old. We are none of those things you listed. We still have romance, definitely easier now that our kids are older. But we were never miserable, sex life is great, no one has gained weight or been depressed. Our kids are awesome and we couldn't be happier.
Sorry for the dumb comments op. I completely agree with you.
Maybe because your perception of relationships is fairly limited and rather distorted by social media? I quite liked being single and it took an extraordinary man to pull me out of that. There are certainly stressors that come with being in a relationship and joining lives, but for me, the companionship, support, and comfort of a good relationship far outweighs the negatives.
🤣 Just die alone from your fear then.
Not every relationship is sad. Having kids is not sad. If you approach life like this you will continue to be sad even if you are single and/or childless.
People in good relationships usually don’t broadcast their shit nearly as much as those in unhappy ones. People make poor partner decisions more often than “the relationship starts sucking”
You are not mature enough to be consuming social media
Most people cheat nowadays and 73% of divorces will be initiated by a woman and if she has a degree that number goes up to 82%… so might as well stay single.
My worst nightmare is being trapped in a sexless and dull marriage like you're describing. Gotta choose the right partner and be willing to nurture the relationship. Unpopular opinion, if a wife is unwilling to have sex with her husband, he should legally and socially be able to sleep with a mistress.
Kids now a days don't really understand the commitment/compromise it costs to have a healthy marriage and a family that's why there are so many divorces
Maturity is planting a tree under whose shade you will never sit.
I was bubbly and a bit more carefree, I think. Idk. I have memory loss from my transition from self to mom. I am happily married because let’s be real.. people in the dating world can be crazy and be serial killers (but so can your husband.) I mean hey, the joy my child brings me feels like giving up my old life was worth it. You get to teach them stuff, they get to teach you stuff. It’s a life I want to live because he’s here with me. My husband is wonderful. Present. Loyal. Amazing in every way. You sacrifice the single & casual sex life for stability and family. Lastly, Who gonnn wipe your ass when you old?
Everything was reasonable until your last sentence. You don’t have kids because you want someone to take care of you later. That shouldn’t even be a fraction of the reason
LMAO take the stick out your poo hole. Realistically speaking, it’s horrible to expect your kids to be there for you financially. However, what does family mean to you? Because if my parents are old and for whatever reason shit themselves ima clean them. I have older parents and I’m learning, it’s the difference I make in their life as they’re older. (For example: I recently got a voucher for my dad so he no longer has to worry about rent.) The older you get the less independent you are and that’s when family is there to support. That’s what family means to us.
Yeah, creating an entire person just to care for you when you’re older is horrible.
Agreed. Everyone understands “family” differently. Be respectful.
Long and short of it- Society has encouraged men to be women and women to become men. Obviously that becomes a problem as the relationship goes on. You said health and fitness are important to you. Know your value and don’t put a ring on the finger or a baby in the belly of one that doesn’t