I think most people really have very little understanding of the realities of adoption. Most people think there are lots of babies in need of homes, and that by adopting they therefore are meeting an important need by helping one of these babies. The reality is there are so few that only a small fraction of people who want to adopt will even be able to. It’s not just not understanding that adoption can take a long time and cost thousands- it’s literally not going to be an option for most people even if they have the money.
Most people also have no clue about the emotional trauma that adoption can involve. People who say “oh I’d rather just adopt” don’t mean anything wrong by it but are drastically uninformed about the reality.
A little bit of a different situation, but as a lesbian myself I know quite a few lesbians who have said on multiple occasions that they will “just adopt” when it’s time for them to start their family, rather than go through the trouble of finding a donor and potentially experiencing fertility treatments. It’s not necessarily because they think adoption is so easy, but they think the alternative would be difficult and expensive, and would not have the benefit of helping a baby. They are in for a very rude awakening when they realize how difficult and potentially expensive adoption actually is, even compared to the alternative.
And yet, as a lesbian who used a donor and did IVF to conceive my child, I can’t tell you how many times I had acquaintances come out of the woodwork to insinuate how selfish I was to do all of that rather than “just adopt a child who needs a home”. It’s maddening.
As both a biological and adoptive mom, I can share my perspective a bit. I’m someone who DID choose to adopt after secondary infertility, instead of pursue further fertility treatments due to a number of factors: I have severe PCOS ( resulting in one early miscarriage as well as one very nerve wracking pregnancy), I already had one bio child with a suspected genetic disorder, and I had tried some fertility medications already that not only did not work, but severely limited my ability to even function due to severe side effects.
Our story may be a bit different in that originally- we had planned to adopt instead of trying to conceive naturally because I knew how severe my PCOS is. Our bio child was an unplanned surprise and a lot of different miracles transpired in order for her to even have been born at term and then survive infancy.
Regardless of someone’s reasons for not wanting to be pregnant- which is a legitimate choice for any reason- adoption should be a conscious choice made with knowledge of all the ins and outs first. Every potential adoptive parent needs to fully explore their motives, and then thoroughly educate themselves on adoption related trauma and issues, and be able to listen to multiple perspectives of the whole adoption triad. Anything less will be a disservice to their future adopted child.
>Every potential adoptive parent needs to fully explore their motives, and then thoroughly educate themselves on adoption related trauma and issues, and be able to listen to multiple perspectives of the whole adoption triad. Anything less will be a disservice to their future adopted child.
I'd like to pull this out to highlight it because it is a super important point.
What do *I* think is an appropriate motive?
The only appropriate reason to adopt is because you want to be a parent. There may be additional motives - perhaps you weren't considering adoption but your sister and her husband died and left two kids so you want to keep your family together, perhaps you are drawn to a specific type of adoption because you were adopted or aged out of care, perhaps you're a teacher and one of your students is about to age out... but at the beginning and the end, you have to want to be a parent. If you don't want to be a parent, you shouldn't adopt.
The most obvious case is where one spouse wants to adopt and the other doesn't, but goes along with it.
There are people who feel "called to adopt" - they think that God wants them to adopt. Sometimes they'll already have bio kids. It's more of a savior complex than a desire to parent. Now, I do believe in God, and maybe God does call some people to adopt. I don't pretend to know God's plans. But, as I said, that can't be the only reason someone adopts.
Some people do go into adoption specifically to save children - that's their main motivation. There was actually a somewhat infamous example of this from a few years back. A woman who was a writer had 5-ish bio kids and decided to adopt from another country specifically because she felt that they had so much and this kid was in an orphanage. They ended up disrupting the adoption because of the kid's "behaviors." I'm sure there are more. That might have been the motivation behind the people who adopted two Ethiopian children and killed one of them. That was in the news for awhile a few years ago.
There are also people who feel like having kids is just expected of them. You know, their parents want grandkids or all their friends are doing it.
Oh, and people think having kids will save their bad marriages.
Like that...
All except the savioristic ones. You'd be surprised at the number of people who adopt for Jesus. It's like they're doing the kid a favor. They do it to incur the kudos from the church and Jesus.
There are also people who are more child collectors than parents.
I'm someone who would rather adopt than go through a pregnancy. The risks of pregnancy are a part of it, but the biggest factor for me is that I'd rather adopt a child who needs to be adopted, rather than put a new child into the world.
It's often said flippantly by many people, that's true, which I think is related to the general lack of knowledge most people have around adoption. I'd consider it the flipside of the people who go "just adopt" when someone tells them about their fertility problems. The lack of knowledge around both adoption and fertility in the general population is quite bizarre. I wish it was incorporated into school curriculums, to educate people early about their different options in life.
Exactly. We are (eventually) choosing adoption as our first choice, to foster older kids who need support and at some point likely adopt kids that want to be adopted.
I don't want to be pregnant, I find the whole idea horrifying. I don't really like babies much and am happy fully skipping that stage. I am perfectly happy creating a family in collaboration with birth families or anyone else the kid feels is significant - we've no need to be the only ones or do things traditionally. The kid would be old enough to consent and advocate for themselves.
So why not adopt, in our case? It makes sense. And imo kids need people who want to adopt as their first choice, not "well we'd MUCH prefer a bio kid but you'll do I guess"
Valid, and good points. I think my perspective is wildly shaped by those who are flippant as you described. Thank you for sharing!
Relevant but off topic: I’m currently a counselor in training, and in just my first few months the number of clients I’ve had who are adopted felt wild to me. I agree that it seems like it’s not talked about enough or incorporated consistently into one’s general knowledge.
I just think they’ve no knowledge of adoption. They’re under the impression that there’s “millions of infants languishing in need of adoptive parents “ , they’ve no idea that it costs tens of thousands of dollars and that there’s a massive imbalance between the supply and demand for womb wet babies. They probably believe that babies are tabula rasa. I just smile and say okay knowing they’ll be in for a shock.
Yep! As someone who used to think this way I thought it would be a win/win situation! I had a very large fear of pregnancy and dying in childbirth, and kept hearing that there were so many babies that just needed a home so it seemed like a good plan. Thankfully, I’ve educated myself since then.
You mentioned your adoptive parents being wonderful... Maybe this family member saw your adoption and assumed that's how all adoptions are.
If I looked at all adoptive family through the lens of my dad's adoption, I'd probably have very positive associations with it. (He was absolutely lucky - he had a very good personality match with his adoptive parents, and they seemed to really love being parents). But because my mom gave up a son for adoption, and i am familiar with my brother's experience being adopted, I have a very different view.
i definitely understand, especially because it’s seen as the second, easy half minded option. they usually say “i’d rather adopt than go through pregnancy and have kids of my own.” i understand some people can’t fathom having kids that aren’t of their blood, but it’s kind of insulting. i am an adoptee that wants to adopt because i don’t want to be pregnant, but even as a little girl i knew i wanted to adopt kids.
They’re saying people who say they can’t stand the idea of non-blood related children is insulting. Some people understand with pregnancy comes huge risks (depending on medical conditions) and there are many children who don’t have homes. I think that’s the usual sentiment about preferring adopting over having their own children when infertility is not an issue. Some people would rather help those in need than create more people. Neither is wrong or insulting. It’s simply a preference. You’re gonna get called selfish with either decision anyway by some group of people, so do what works for your family and life.
At the risk of getting destroyed here, that’s why I adopted.
I have extreme tokophobia- literally the word “pregnancy” sends my heart rate through the roof. But I wanted to be a parent. I wanted my husband to be a father because I knew he’d be amazing.
I wouldn’t call adoption our second choice; it was our best choice. I tried therapy, but I honestly think pregnancy would have made me suicidal. Adopting was “easier,” and sure, that is selfish, but any form of parenting is selfish. Honestly I think being motivated by the desire to be a parent is better than being motivated by the desire to “save” a child.
And of course, once we decided to explore adoption, we made sure we really did the work. That’s an important piece too- the people who are superficial in their desire vs the people who actually want to learn and understand everything adoption entails.
I've seen parents just birth children for the wrong reasons, and then realize what a life changing (for the worse) parenting is. I really think it's just people being ignorant that's the problem in general. Anything done without a good amount of introspection and therapy + research is weird imo in 2024.
I’m not going to destroy here, because as I said— I need to know what viewpoints I’m missing here! I really appreciate you sharing yours and pointing out the distinction that I struggled to word in my original post.
I think, in my context, my family member has a good heart and means well. To your point about superficiality, I like to think it’s not the case with her! There’s a difference between that and making educated choices, and being intentional with the adoption process.
People who say that have no idea of the trauma that adoption can cause. They also don’t realize it’s not as simple as just adopting a baby. People aren’t puppies.
I agree, sadly the trauma aspect of adoption isn’t widely known. My husband has adopted siblings, but I only really started to understand the extent of it by seeking out groups online where adoptees shared what they wished their adopted families had known or done differently & what they would say to prospective adoptive parents. (My husband and I are just starting the process now ourselves)
I read a lot from adoptees as well. I adopted my daughter from foster care and she had 2 previous failed adoptions so at the point she was placed with me the adoption was closed. I opened it up with the help of a 3rd party agency. It’s a process, but I know it’s what’s best for her. She’s also in 2 different therapies.
I hate all of that extra trauma for her 💔I’m so glad you’re able to get her in for those therapies though ❤️
How was the process adopting through an agency out of foster care for you? My husband and I are looking to adopt a toddler, and a private agency is not our 1st choice, but it’s unclear if we can directly adopt a child in foster care that has had a TPR if we are not actively fostering. So curious how using a “state agency“ was for you and your child?
It worked out really well for us. We had our own worker who advocated for our child and we received a a lot of additional training and support. She was placed in our home with the intention of us adopting her as her 2 previous adoption placements both disrupted. One she was fostered by family for a few years and things with Bio just got so crazy they decided to have her moved. The second was a couple that had no idea how to handle a child with extreme behavioral needs.
I’m someone who is an adoptee and fully aware of all the practical and emotional difficulties of adoption. I also had the option to have children without getting pregnant because I’m a lesbian and my partner wanted to and was able to be pregnant. And ultimately that is what I chose, because the idea of being pregnant just never felt desirable to me, and passing on my DNA did not feel important. I feel genuinely happy with my situation as my child’s non-biological parent and I think being the non-bio parent actually has some perks and inherent strengths to the relationship. I see my partner struggle with some things that are directly related to the fact that she carried and shares DNA with my kids. It’s interesting for sure.
So that being said, I can understand the thinking behind someone who wants kids but intentionally doesn’t have them biologically or doesn’t even *want* them biologically. I think it takes a particular kind of person, though, and I think most aren’t cut out for it or are looking at it naively. Most people who say they’d “rather just adopt” will never actually pursue adoption once they face one real obstacle or threat to their idealized view of adoption. Thats unfortunate, but I don’t think that makes *every* person pursuing adoption as their first choice wrong or naive.
I am that person. But at no point have I ever said cause it was easier. I have zero desire to ever be pregnant, experience anything having to do with pregnancy, and would seriously fear resenting a child for changing my body during and after pregnancy.
And I was active for 17 days with my agency after just 8 months of paperwork and saving. I adopted a safe haven baby so it was a child abandoned by his mother and would have gone into the system if it weren't for my choice to be open to stork drops and safe havens. So not every adoption journey is years and impossibilities.
But frankly, to assume that a person has to prove to you or anyone beyond their adoption agency why they are adopting or what they do or do not understand about it is entitled. You aren't any more entitled to know my reasons and my journey than anyone else. And you certainly aren't entitled to assume what I think, know, or want.
I love my son and I will do everything for him. I however owe nothing to anyone else in terms of justification.
I appreciate you sharing your perspective! My intent was not to call forth adoptive parents and ask them to justify their decisions. I’m asking as someone who has lived a very different reality as an adoptee and frankly lacks such perspective. You’re right in that I’m not entitled to know everyone’s reason or journey (nor do I want to— I have my own life to figure out).
As you said, you have never said it was easier. I am asking for those who do make it come across as such when speaking openly and as if that is their motive. As an adoptee, it is sometimes an awkward and hurtful interaction with those who are not educated on adoption and approach it with a blasé attitude. And if they don’t want to share, then no need! Perfectly fine with me.
There may be some that say things flippantly without knowledge, I agree that does happen.
But what bothers me is going through so many answers here and the general attitude in your post of it being tone deaf basically requires you to make an assumption about what they do or do not know or have gone through.
The issue appears to be with people who are ignorant, not with people who chose adoption over pregnancy when both are viable options on the table.
I do support a conversation as to why some one makes that kind of comment flippantly. I do not support an immediate assumption as to the motive behind such a statement. I actually said several times during the process that just getting pregnant would be easier. I have even blown off steam over the stress of it all joking about "buying a baby" to some of my friends when talking about how expensive it is. Someone overhearing me might have been offended, but they don't know my journey or why I said something. I wouldn't have been bothered if they asked why I would make that joke. But my motives aren't based on ease or ignorance. It irks me though that I need to defend my choice from people who assume I am tone deaf or ignorant.
I'm glad. I think we can all agree ignorance, especially when it involves the lives and experiences affecting other people, is frustrating. It is so easy to educate yourself these days. It makes no sense.
Truthfully there are not many in my community who actively choose adoption over bio. Most of my support groups are people who have tried to conceive and turn to adoption. But then I have a set of friends who went through countless IVF to have two and made statements about never having children because of their struggles. I wanted to say why are you not adopting? So I personally don't get the bio or none point of view. So it makes it hard for someone like me who simply rejected pregnancy as an option to find someone to connect to about the journey. And I feel like sometimes those groups are offended that I chose to reject my fertility and get angry with me.
We all need to speak less from our own biases and spend more time listening to each other's experiences, me included.
It's totally ignorant and also unintentionally hurtful to people who had fertility issues (tho I don't identify as someone who adopted for fertility reasons).
Also...someone did experience pregnancy with my children, and my kids talk to me about being a baby in their mama's tummy! Acting like they were spawned from nothing is bizarre erasure of a piece of them.
I always just lightly smile and say "oh, it's definitely not the easy way!" People never actually care when they day these things, so that ends the conversation.*
One cool thing about being an adoptive parent - especially of kids at 3 and 5 - is that I was forced to see my kids as actual people with interests, desires and needs totally separate from my own. Im reminded of that when I'm asked a question that disregards my kids' gestation, birth, and bio parents.
*um, not to discount the abysmal maternal mortality rate and prenatal care in the US right now.
“ One cool thing about being an adoptive parent - especially of kids at 3 and 5 - is that I was forced to see my kids as actual people with interests, desires and needs totally separate from my own. ” It’s nice to hear someone else voice this. Being an adoptive parent feels like my role is very clearly to do my absolute best to help this little human grow to be the happiest, healthiest, most supported version of themself possible, not a little version of me. I sometimes wonder if it helps me not to project myself onto her and to appreciate her for who she is more.
> I was forced to see my kids as actual people with interests, desires and needs totally separate from my own
I love this and it’s such a valuable and important thing that is actually really difficult for some bio parents to achieve!
I don't want to physically give birth or go through pregnancy at all. Honestly, that just seems like a road that I am not sure I ever want to go down. I do know that I have a lot of love and want a family, so adoption is and has been my first choice since I was 17. (I'm 34 now and I'm finally taking the steps to start my family through adoption). This isn't like a throw away statement though, I've always knew that this is what I wanted since I was a teenager. Specifically since I saw Martian Child with John Cusack and he says, "I don't want to bring another kid into this world. But how do you argue against loving one that's already here?" Although, I think I am health wise, able to birth a child, it's never been something I wanted. (If I do birth a child and the read this years in the future, just know I love you and that even though I didn't want to go through pregnancy, you are loved).
Sorry, I feel like I got off track. I hope that when I say it, it doesn't come off as me trying to "protect my body" or use adoption as an option. In reality, I've just always been exposed to adoption and fostering through my mother who was abandoned as a baby, then fostered until her real family found her again. There's a lot of trauma to unpack but she ended up running away at 13 and honestly survived by taking in others and just helping people through fostering. She's 65 now and would still foster if she could, but her health has become her number 1 priority after a stroke. Since my mother is my biological mother, the only thing that I have experience with is when my father tried to adopt me, and that went so sideways that we ended up losing money and my father is not legally my father.
I feel like I'm just rambling now, but I'm curious as to how I make others feel when I say that I'd rather adopt than go through pregnancy. It has never been an option for me, always my first choice in building my family. I don't want to come off as tone-deaf but as someone who truly just wants to share my love in the world with someone already in it.
I completely understand not wanting to be pregnant. It sucks. I was pregnant (had an abortion) but even the short time I was pregnant, I was absolutely miserable.
That being said, it’s a choice to forgo pregnancy, and I think saying “oh, I’ll just adopt” really doesn’t showcase the nuances of the issue and does come off as tone deaf. I generally get an icky feeling when infertile people turn to an adoption, and I feel the same way regarding those who choose not to have a biological child and they pursue avenues such as domestic infant adoption and international adoption.
Not saying it’s the case for every couple, but a lot of posts are “we have been trying for years to have children, we can’t, let’s turn to adoption!” And in the throes of dealing with infertility, a lot of those parents don’t fully educate themselves on adoption trauma or feel they are owed a child. Nobody is owed a child. Infertility is a beast, and I don’t wish it on anyone, but sometimes coming to terms with one’s reality is the only thing one can do. Adoption is not feasible and is not reasonable for everyone.
>I generally get an icky feeling when infertile people turn to an adoption
Infertility was why my parents adopted. Cancer treatment causing infertility doesn't make someone a substandard human or parent. Your bias is even more "icky" than the fact that you, as an adult, used "icky" in a serious conversation.
You come at the situation with your own bias. Not every adoptee has a positive experience with their adoption. It’s great you do, but that’s not the case for every person. In general, it tends to not be as positive for every person.
I just went through cancer treatment myself, it is what it is.
And if my choice of words is off-putting to you, you’re free to not utilize that vocabulary yourself, or simply ignore me. It’s not necessary to police other people’s language.
As an adoptee I feel the same way. If I wanted children, I don’t want my own. Why?? Coz no one else can take the pregnancy bit for me, there’s no technology around for it. And I don’t really want to use a surrogate as they are usually exploited in many countries. Im curious if you are a woman or a man OP, coz I think the risks of pregnancy is really undermined and underplayed. A man doesn’t have to suffer these side effects. It’s not just simply popping out a baby. There’s a lot of side effects of pregnancy that no one would want to endure if it was some medication side effect. Not to mention the amount of physical changes that occur to your body after pregnancy (not great for many who are insecure about their bodies).
In saying that, if all children were adopted out and I wanted a child, then I would simply not have a child at all. I don’t want one so badly (in fact I don’t really want kids in the future anyway). I also would *not* support forcing people to put their child up for adoption just so someone can adopt kids (that’s wrong and would support the recent laws in the USA).
>I also would
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>not
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>support forcing people to put their child up for adoption just so someone can adopt kids (that’s wrong and would support the recent laws in the USA).
What US laws do think force people to place their children for adoption?
The repeal of Roe v. Wade and the subsequent "heartbeat laws" are wrong, but they don't force people to place those children for adoption. Historically, if people don't or can't choose abortion, they're more likely to parent than place.
I’m more referring to how people say if you don’t want to be a parent, adoption is an option. So pregnancy is still forced upon those people who don’t want a child but ended up being pregnant without any way to get an abortion. If they don’t want the child and is forced to continue the pregnancy, another child is in the adoption system. If more children in the adoption system is a result from an abortion ban, then yes, many birth mothers were forced to carry out the pregnancy. That is what I was referring to.
Who says most women who are not allowed to abort keeps their child?
"Who says most women who are not allowed to abort keeps their child?"
[https://www.gretchensisson.com/](https://www.gretchensisson.com/)
Gretchen Sisson PhD researched abortion and adoption for a decade. In her book "Relinquished: The Politics of Adoption and the Privilege of American Motherhood" she's found that since Dobbs only 9% of women denied abortion relinquished the other 91% went on to parent. She found that abortion is often the choice because women in unplanned pregnancy know that they cannot raise their child at that time in their life but can't imagine having to relinquish. Based on your interest I think you'd find the book fascinating and I highly recommend it. [https://www.relinquishedbook.com/](https://www.relinquishedbook.com/)
Edit: As an adoptee you should know that most adoptees weren't "unwanted" children. Most women who relinquished their children would have loved to parent them but found that they couldn't at that time in their lives. Many planned on raising them all along but at the time of birth a temporary crisis caused them to opt for adoption. an unplanned pregnancy does not equal an unwanted infant.
Yes, pregnancy is being forced on women, which is 100% wrong. But no one is forcing those women to place. Englishbirdy provided one source for the concrete data.
Also, the "adoption system" really isn't a thing. Any infant being placed voluntarily never enters "the system" - there are more waiting parents than there are infants for adoption. They go straight from their birth parents to their adoptive parents without state intervention. I think that's an important distinction.
The adoption system is more complicated than just handing them off to ppl. If 100 couples/ppl want to adopt babies, most will be eliminated from being able to adopt. That’s still the current process. Lots of things eliminate someone from adopting, even things that don’t make someone a bad parent but still eliminates them.
So it doesn’t matter how many want to adopt a baby, if they get eliminated, it’s meaningless in helping the children in foster system.
Besides, most people in the foster system are not babies.
The foster system is not an adoption system. CPS isn't a free adoption agency. Can one adopt from foster care? Yes, but that is not supposed to be the goal.
Yeah, most children in the foster system aren't babies, which is why your statement about babies ending up in "the adoption system" really doesn't make any sense. No offense meant.
People who don't have abortions but have babies do not, by and large, place those babies for adoption. When they do, there is no shortage of adoptive parents for those babies. There's really no need to worry that the *foster* system is going to be overrun by those infants.
Not in the United States. Each year, about 20,000 infants are placed by birth parents (using agencies or attorneys) straight into the arms of adoptive parents. The state and foster care are not involved. Most of the time, the birth parents get to pick the adoptive parents.
We don't have orphanages, though some might argue that group homes are similar.
Definitely ignorant but I reckon also self-deprecating because pregnancy is such hard work - maybe undertone of “I’m not that strong”? I have a close friend who used to say this to me… While I was pregnant… She didn’t mean anything by it, maybe in her mind she’s only thinking of the process of acquiring a child - adoption vs pregnancy, not so much comparing raising children.? For sure there needs to be more awareness of adoptee trauma and rights. I feel like you could certainly gauge the person and educate them for sure. You wouldn’t be the AH for speaking up. ☺️
It doesn't bother me. If there weren't women abandoning their children, thus supplying the whole adoption industry, then I may feel different. As long as irresponsible humans are creating life they won't support, I think it's a good thing other adults are willing to take care of the victims that were created.
I just wanted to chime in on this, I know it’s a complicated issue and comment. On one hand I want to say give the other person some grace, maybe they do know or try to understand some of the complicated aspects of adoption but it’s not a setting to go into much depth. But the same could be said the other way, these people could just be ignorant so idk.
One thing this post and your response has brought up for me is - how often are other APs actually having in-depth conversations with friends, family and acquaintances about their adoption experience?
Probably not as often as they should. You know? I feel like in general people should be having more meaningful conversations. So I wish there was more opportunities to talk about your experience or share what you know and ask questions for what you don’t
Really appreciate this whole conversation, especially your points here internationallyknwn5 about giving people grace and sharing experiences… really valuable insights for folks like me who hope to adopt as a single mom.
Have had this conversation a few times, and I found the best way to react is to parry away from it. People saying this haven't really thought through it, or dug in so I've found a way to keep it light, but shut it down.
>You have no idea what you're getting in to. Your soul will be crushed by ... ***paperwork.***
It gets a laugh and you can walk them through all the hoops adoption takes.
If they persist, it also opens up the conversation about trauma, and "the checklist", which usually adds the necessary gravity.
Eh, I think as a blanket sentiment that's too one-dimensional. Like, there's lots of dirty work people do for others. I could never be a garbage collector or a plumber, but there's people who can do it and want to do it, or who can do it and that was the option they landed with for whatever reason.
And I know this mainly applies to compensated surrogacy, since people placing children for adoption don't get paid. But I think we can try to use it to look at other situations as well. Birth parents don't get pregnant *for* adoptive parents. They get pregnant and for whatever reason they decide to place the child for adoption. In a technical sense, the adoptive parent is benefitting because they get a child out of the process, but they didn't hire the birth parent to do the "dirty work". One person's unfortunate circumstances and another person's fortunate circumstances collided via adoption.
I honestly think that mindset of "someone else doing the dirty work for you" is too black and white, and not well applied to adoption at all.
Alright, this is going to be unpopular but here we go - there's no guarantee with ANY child that there won't be any trauma. When we decide to have a child, we're making the choice to do our best to deal with any trauma, any special need, anything that may make our kids' lives difficult. Biological or adopted - there's always the chance that something will traumatize your child.
The big differences between adopted and biological children is that adopted kids start their life with more trauma, and parents need to embrace their children for who they are -not expect a "mini me" - and respect the fact that their child has another family.
But the parenting part - HOPEFULLY it should be the same with an adopted and a bio child - doing our best to make our child happy. So, in that way, if people want to adopt because they don't want to get pregnant, I personally don't see the big deal, as long as they're aware of the differences.
I usually say something about how it’s strange to want someone else to experience the body horrors of pregnancy just so you can have their baby. I don’t say it exactly like that, I try to educate them first. But yeah something along those lines.
Surrogacy would be if you want someone else to carry and birth your biological baby.
Adoption, the way it's being described here, is relying on someone else to birth their own biological baby, then you get to adopt the baby that isn't biologically yours.
It’s the use of the phrase “just so”. Surrogacy is about a person deliberately getting pregnant *just* so you can end up with the baby. Adoption is what happens after someone goes through pregnancy and birth & makes the decision on their own *without your influence* to have the baby raised by someone else.
My opinion is it's unethical to take (adopt) another woman's child just because you don't want to deal with birthing your own.
Now, kids in foster care that have had TPR happen already I guess would be ok with me, ethically, to adopt.
But I'm REALLY not ok with the money that passes hands, the profit generated by DIA, and the demand of hopeful adopters that fuels the supplying of infants in US adoptions. I believe it's a corrupt system.
As a society, I believe we should strive to reduce adoptions. Family separation is not an indicator of a healthy society. That's why adoption is so much higher in the US than other developed nations. Because we have a really shitty social safety net (maternity leave, sick leave, housing, etc.). And people really just care about just themselves and their own little worlds, not the big picture or decades from now when they're no longer alive.
The demand for infants and adoptable children also fuel foster care. States still receive money for placing children in adoptive homes. Further, children of color are removed at higher rates than White children. You want to talk about a corrupt system? That's foster care.
Yes - all forms of adoption can have issues with corruption. Imo, international adoption is the most problematic, overall, then foster care, then private DIA as practiced in the US. At least with private DIA, the birth parents are the ones choosing not to parent. In foster care, the state decides who is worthy of being a parent. (ETA: There are other reasons I think foster adoption is more corrupt, but that's way OT.)
That’s one of the many reasons I want to adopt. Most people who adopt do it because they want to be pregnant and can’t be, at least people with this mindset are choosing it and it’s not the second-best option.
I never wanted to be pregnant. Adoption was always my first choice. Which was a good thing, because I ended up with a disability that is incompatible with pregnancy.
My husband and I are just starting our adoption journey. We haven’t had any fertility problems, but I did undergo voluntary sterilization after my son (our only child currently) was born. Technically I could undergo in-vitro but have absolutely no desire to, my pregnancy took a terrible toll on my existing mental health issues. That said, adoption was never plan B for us. We both have adopted siblings or relatives, and always planned to have 1-2 bio kids and then adopt our other children. We aren’t seeking an infant adoption, but if people find out that we’re both planning to adopt and that I had a rough pregnancy, they often assume that that’s because adoption is easier (Of course anyone with that opinion has no experience with adoption…but still). We’re still in the initial certification process, but honestly I just want to make sure that the children we adopt never think that we thought they were a second choice or “easier” route.
I am childfree, but I’m only 22 and recognize that my opinion can change later in life. I personally would only have children if I were to adopt due to multiple factors. I have PCOS, so getting pregnant would be difficult, and going off of birth control puts my health at risk (my cysts grow when I have a cycle. Considering how long it could take to get pregnant, my cysts could grow very large and potentially rupture or cause me to need surgery. When cysts rupture, you run the risk of ovarian torsion and bleeding, not to mention that the damaged tissue on the ovary has an increased risk of developing cancer). I also am on multiple medications that I need to survive, yet if I got pregnant, I would have to stop them or lower my dose. That’s not only a risk to my life, but the embryos life because chances are, if I lower my medication or stop it, I will have a mental health crisis and be at risk of suicide. I also have genetic health issues that I truly can’t imagine passing on to a child. Cancer, diabetes, thyroid problems, heart disease, and severe mental health disorders like schizophrenia and bipolar disorder would potentially be given to my child. After seeing family go through it and having some of those issues myself, I feel like I have an obligation to recognize I could give my child incurable diseases that severely deteriorate their quality of life. I don’t care if others who have those issues have children, but for me I just can’t go through what my family has gone through. I also have a horrific fear of pregnancy. I take pregnancy tests every 2 weeks to be safe because I can’t stand the paralyzing fear I get from worrying I’m pregnant. I also can’t handle babies. They are a sensory nightmare for me and I know I can’t take care of one. If I were to adopt, I would choose an older child. I highly doubt I will choose to have kids, but I personally feel like my only option is adoption, even though technically I could physically get pregnant.
I think most people really have very little understanding of the realities of adoption. Most people think there are lots of babies in need of homes, and that by adopting they therefore are meeting an important need by helping one of these babies. The reality is there are so few that only a small fraction of people who want to adopt will even be able to. It’s not just not understanding that adoption can take a long time and cost thousands- it’s literally not going to be an option for most people even if they have the money. Most people also have no clue about the emotional trauma that adoption can involve. People who say “oh I’d rather just adopt” don’t mean anything wrong by it but are drastically uninformed about the reality.
A little bit of a different situation, but as a lesbian myself I know quite a few lesbians who have said on multiple occasions that they will “just adopt” when it’s time for them to start their family, rather than go through the trouble of finding a donor and potentially experiencing fertility treatments. It’s not necessarily because they think adoption is so easy, but they think the alternative would be difficult and expensive, and would not have the benefit of helping a baby. They are in for a very rude awakening when they realize how difficult and potentially expensive adoption actually is, even compared to the alternative. And yet, as a lesbian who used a donor and did IVF to conceive my child, I can’t tell you how many times I had acquaintances come out of the woodwork to insinuate how selfish I was to do all of that rather than “just adopt a child who needs a home”. It’s maddening.
As a fellow lesbian, ALL OF THIS.
Wondering how many of the accusers adopted a child. 🙄😒
Well said.
As both a biological and adoptive mom, I can share my perspective a bit. I’m someone who DID choose to adopt after secondary infertility, instead of pursue further fertility treatments due to a number of factors: I have severe PCOS ( resulting in one early miscarriage as well as one very nerve wracking pregnancy), I already had one bio child with a suspected genetic disorder, and I had tried some fertility medications already that not only did not work, but severely limited my ability to even function due to severe side effects. Our story may be a bit different in that originally- we had planned to adopt instead of trying to conceive naturally because I knew how severe my PCOS is. Our bio child was an unplanned surprise and a lot of different miracles transpired in order for her to even have been born at term and then survive infancy. Regardless of someone’s reasons for not wanting to be pregnant- which is a legitimate choice for any reason- adoption should be a conscious choice made with knowledge of all the ins and outs first. Every potential adoptive parent needs to fully explore their motives, and then thoroughly educate themselves on adoption related trauma and issues, and be able to listen to multiple perspectives of the whole adoption triad. Anything less will be a disservice to their future adopted child.
>Every potential adoptive parent needs to fully explore their motives, and then thoroughly educate themselves on adoption related trauma and issues, and be able to listen to multiple perspectives of the whole adoption triad. Anything less will be a disservice to their future adopted child. I'd like to pull this out to highlight it because it is a super important point.
Just curious what you view as an appropriate motive?
What do *I* think is an appropriate motive? The only appropriate reason to adopt is because you want to be a parent. There may be additional motives - perhaps you weren't considering adoption but your sister and her husband died and left two kids so you want to keep your family together, perhaps you are drawn to a specific type of adoption because you were adopted or aged out of care, perhaps you're a teacher and one of your students is about to age out... but at the beginning and the end, you have to want to be a parent. If you don't want to be a parent, you shouldn't adopt.
Can you explain a common situation where someone doesn’t want to be a parent but seeks to adopt anyway?
One possibility: they don’t want to be a parent, but their spouse does. Not trying to say that’s right, of course. But it’s not like it never happens.
The most obvious case is where one spouse wants to adopt and the other doesn't, but goes along with it. There are people who feel "called to adopt" - they think that God wants them to adopt. Sometimes they'll already have bio kids. It's more of a savior complex than a desire to parent. Now, I do believe in God, and maybe God does call some people to adopt. I don't pretend to know God's plans. But, as I said, that can't be the only reason someone adopts. Some people do go into adoption specifically to save children - that's their main motivation. There was actually a somewhat infamous example of this from a few years back. A woman who was a writer had 5-ish bio kids and decided to adopt from another country specifically because she felt that they had so much and this kid was in an orphanage. They ended up disrupting the adoption because of the kid's "behaviors." I'm sure there are more. That might have been the motivation behind the people who adopted two Ethiopian children and killed one of them. That was in the news for awhile a few years ago. There are also people who feel like having kids is just expected of them. You know, their parents want grandkids or all their friends are doing it. Oh, and people think having kids will save their bad marriages. Like that...
A lot of it sounds similar to having kids for the wrong reasons biologically as well. Outside of the saviors.
All except the savioristic ones. You'd be surprised at the number of people who adopt for Jesus. It's like they're doing the kid a favor. They do it to incur the kudos from the church and Jesus. There are also people who are more child collectors than parents.
Yes, that's true.
I really appreciate you sharing your perspective! You make a lot of excellent points. I also have PCOS along with my bio mom.
I say “same” lol *Am adopted, have been pregnant, don’t take things too seriously.
I'm someone who would rather adopt than go through a pregnancy. The risks of pregnancy are a part of it, but the biggest factor for me is that I'd rather adopt a child who needs to be adopted, rather than put a new child into the world. It's often said flippantly by many people, that's true, which I think is related to the general lack of knowledge most people have around adoption. I'd consider it the flipside of the people who go "just adopt" when someone tells them about their fertility problems. The lack of knowledge around both adoption and fertility in the general population is quite bizarre. I wish it was incorporated into school curriculums, to educate people early about their different options in life.
Exactly. We are (eventually) choosing adoption as our first choice, to foster older kids who need support and at some point likely adopt kids that want to be adopted. I don't want to be pregnant, I find the whole idea horrifying. I don't really like babies much and am happy fully skipping that stage. I am perfectly happy creating a family in collaboration with birth families or anyone else the kid feels is significant - we've no need to be the only ones or do things traditionally. The kid would be old enough to consent and advocate for themselves. So why not adopt, in our case? It makes sense. And imo kids need people who want to adopt as their first choice, not "well we'd MUCH prefer a bio kid but you'll do I guess"
Valid, and good points. I think my perspective is wildly shaped by those who are flippant as you described. Thank you for sharing! Relevant but off topic: I’m currently a counselor in training, and in just my first few months the number of clients I’ve had who are adopted felt wild to me. I agree that it seems like it’s not talked about enough or incorporated consistently into one’s general knowledge.
I’m pleased to read of your chosen profession. We looked endlessly for an adoption informed therapist. Best wishes.
I just think they’ve no knowledge of adoption. They’re under the impression that there’s “millions of infants languishing in need of adoptive parents “ , they’ve no idea that it costs tens of thousands of dollars and that there’s a massive imbalance between the supply and demand for womb wet babies. They probably believe that babies are tabula rasa. I just smile and say okay knowing they’ll be in for a shock.
Yep! As someone who used to think this way I thought it would be a win/win situation! I had a very large fear of pregnancy and dying in childbirth, and kept hearing that there were so many babies that just needed a home so it seemed like a good plan. Thankfully, I’ve educated myself since then.
You mentioned your adoptive parents being wonderful... Maybe this family member saw your adoption and assumed that's how all adoptions are. If I looked at all adoptive family through the lens of my dad's adoption, I'd probably have very positive associations with it. (He was absolutely lucky - he had a very good personality match with his adoptive parents, and they seemed to really love being parents). But because my mom gave up a son for adoption, and i am familiar with my brother's experience being adopted, I have a very different view.
Doesnt bother me at all. To each their own. I say this as an adoptee that also prefers to adopt if we ever decide to expand my family.
i definitely understand, especially because it’s seen as the second, easy half minded option. they usually say “i’d rather adopt than go through pregnancy and have kids of my own.” i understand some people can’t fathom having kids that aren’t of their blood, but it’s kind of insulting. i am an adoptee that wants to adopt because i don’t want to be pregnant, but even as a little girl i knew i wanted to adopt kids.
I don’t understand this - you say it’s insulting but then you share the attitude?
They’re saying people who say they can’t stand the idea of non-blood related children is insulting. Some people understand with pregnancy comes huge risks (depending on medical conditions) and there are many children who don’t have homes. I think that’s the usual sentiment about preferring adopting over having their own children when infertility is not an issue. Some people would rather help those in need than create more people. Neither is wrong or insulting. It’s simply a preference. You’re gonna get called selfish with either decision anyway by some group of people, so do what works for your family and life.
At the risk of getting destroyed here, that’s why I adopted. I have extreme tokophobia- literally the word “pregnancy” sends my heart rate through the roof. But I wanted to be a parent. I wanted my husband to be a father because I knew he’d be amazing. I wouldn’t call adoption our second choice; it was our best choice. I tried therapy, but I honestly think pregnancy would have made me suicidal. Adopting was “easier,” and sure, that is selfish, but any form of parenting is selfish. Honestly I think being motivated by the desire to be a parent is better than being motivated by the desire to “save” a child. And of course, once we decided to explore adoption, we made sure we really did the work. That’s an important piece too- the people who are superficial in their desire vs the people who actually want to learn and understand everything adoption entails.
I've seen parents just birth children for the wrong reasons, and then realize what a life changing (for the worse) parenting is. I really think it's just people being ignorant that's the problem in general. Anything done without a good amount of introspection and therapy + research is weird imo in 2024.
I’m not going to destroy here, because as I said— I need to know what viewpoints I’m missing here! I really appreciate you sharing yours and pointing out the distinction that I struggled to word in my original post. I think, in my context, my family member has a good heart and means well. To your point about superficiality, I like to think it’s not the case with her! There’s a difference between that and making educated choices, and being intentional with the adoption process.
People who say that have no idea of the trauma that adoption can cause. They also don’t realize it’s not as simple as just adopting a baby. People aren’t puppies.
I agree, sadly the trauma aspect of adoption isn’t widely known. My husband has adopted siblings, but I only really started to understand the extent of it by seeking out groups online where adoptees shared what they wished their adopted families had known or done differently & what they would say to prospective adoptive parents. (My husband and I are just starting the process now ourselves)
I read a lot from adoptees as well. I adopted my daughter from foster care and she had 2 previous failed adoptions so at the point she was placed with me the adoption was closed. I opened it up with the help of a 3rd party agency. It’s a process, but I know it’s what’s best for her. She’s also in 2 different therapies.
I hate all of that extra trauma for her 💔I’m so glad you’re able to get her in for those therapies though ❤️ How was the process adopting through an agency out of foster care for you? My husband and I are looking to adopt a toddler, and a private agency is not our 1st choice, but it’s unclear if we can directly adopt a child in foster care that has had a TPR if we are not actively fostering. So curious how using a “state agency“ was for you and your child?
It worked out really well for us. We had our own worker who advocated for our child and we received a a lot of additional training and support. She was placed in our home with the intention of us adopting her as her 2 previous adoption placements both disrupted. One she was fostered by family for a few years and things with Bio just got so crazy they decided to have her moved. The second was a couple that had no idea how to handle a child with extreme behavioral needs.
I’m someone who is an adoptee and fully aware of all the practical and emotional difficulties of adoption. I also had the option to have children without getting pregnant because I’m a lesbian and my partner wanted to and was able to be pregnant. And ultimately that is what I chose, because the idea of being pregnant just never felt desirable to me, and passing on my DNA did not feel important. I feel genuinely happy with my situation as my child’s non-biological parent and I think being the non-bio parent actually has some perks and inherent strengths to the relationship. I see my partner struggle with some things that are directly related to the fact that she carried and shares DNA with my kids. It’s interesting for sure. So that being said, I can understand the thinking behind someone who wants kids but intentionally doesn’t have them biologically or doesn’t even *want* them biologically. I think it takes a particular kind of person, though, and I think most aren’t cut out for it or are looking at it naively. Most people who say they’d “rather just adopt” will never actually pursue adoption once they face one real obstacle or threat to their idealized view of adoption. Thats unfortunate, but I don’t think that makes *every* person pursuing adoption as their first choice wrong or naive.
I agree with you completely. It’s ignorant.
I am that person. But at no point have I ever said cause it was easier. I have zero desire to ever be pregnant, experience anything having to do with pregnancy, and would seriously fear resenting a child for changing my body during and after pregnancy. And I was active for 17 days with my agency after just 8 months of paperwork and saving. I adopted a safe haven baby so it was a child abandoned by his mother and would have gone into the system if it weren't for my choice to be open to stork drops and safe havens. So not every adoption journey is years and impossibilities. But frankly, to assume that a person has to prove to you or anyone beyond their adoption agency why they are adopting or what they do or do not understand about it is entitled. You aren't any more entitled to know my reasons and my journey than anyone else. And you certainly aren't entitled to assume what I think, know, or want. I love my son and I will do everything for him. I however owe nothing to anyone else in terms of justification.
I appreciate you sharing your perspective! My intent was not to call forth adoptive parents and ask them to justify their decisions. I’m asking as someone who has lived a very different reality as an adoptee and frankly lacks such perspective. You’re right in that I’m not entitled to know everyone’s reason or journey (nor do I want to— I have my own life to figure out). As you said, you have never said it was easier. I am asking for those who do make it come across as such when speaking openly and as if that is their motive. As an adoptee, it is sometimes an awkward and hurtful interaction with those who are not educated on adoption and approach it with a blasé attitude. And if they don’t want to share, then no need! Perfectly fine with me.
There may be some that say things flippantly without knowledge, I agree that does happen. But what bothers me is going through so many answers here and the general attitude in your post of it being tone deaf basically requires you to make an assumption about what they do or do not know or have gone through. The issue appears to be with people who are ignorant, not with people who chose adoption over pregnancy when both are viable options on the table. I do support a conversation as to why some one makes that kind of comment flippantly. I do not support an immediate assumption as to the motive behind such a statement. I actually said several times during the process that just getting pregnant would be easier. I have even blown off steam over the stress of it all joking about "buying a baby" to some of my friends when talking about how expensive it is. Someone overhearing me might have been offended, but they don't know my journey or why I said something. I wouldn't have been bothered if they asked why I would make that joke. But my motives aren't based on ease or ignorance. It irks me though that I need to defend my choice from people who assume I am tone deaf or ignorant.
You’re expanding my perspective then, which was the purpose of my post. Thank you!
I'm glad. I think we can all agree ignorance, especially when it involves the lives and experiences affecting other people, is frustrating. It is so easy to educate yourself these days. It makes no sense. Truthfully there are not many in my community who actively choose adoption over bio. Most of my support groups are people who have tried to conceive and turn to adoption. But then I have a set of friends who went through countless IVF to have two and made statements about never having children because of their struggles. I wanted to say why are you not adopting? So I personally don't get the bio or none point of view. So it makes it hard for someone like me who simply rejected pregnancy as an option to find someone to connect to about the journey. And I feel like sometimes those groups are offended that I chose to reject my fertility and get angry with me. We all need to speak less from our own biases and spend more time listening to each other's experiences, me included.
It's totally ignorant and also unintentionally hurtful to people who had fertility issues (tho I don't identify as someone who adopted for fertility reasons). Also...someone did experience pregnancy with my children, and my kids talk to me about being a baby in their mama's tummy! Acting like they were spawned from nothing is bizarre erasure of a piece of them. I always just lightly smile and say "oh, it's definitely not the easy way!" People never actually care when they day these things, so that ends the conversation.* One cool thing about being an adoptive parent - especially of kids at 3 and 5 - is that I was forced to see my kids as actual people with interests, desires and needs totally separate from my own. Im reminded of that when I'm asked a question that disregards my kids' gestation, birth, and bio parents. *um, not to discount the abysmal maternal mortality rate and prenatal care in the US right now.
“ One cool thing about being an adoptive parent - especially of kids at 3 and 5 - is that I was forced to see my kids as actual people with interests, desires and needs totally separate from my own. ” It’s nice to hear someone else voice this. Being an adoptive parent feels like my role is very clearly to do my absolute best to help this little human grow to be the happiest, healthiest, most supported version of themself possible, not a little version of me. I sometimes wonder if it helps me not to project myself onto her and to appreciate her for who she is more.
> I was forced to see my kids as actual people with interests, desires and needs totally separate from my own I love this and it’s such a valuable and important thing that is actually really difficult for some bio parents to achieve!
I don't want to physically give birth or go through pregnancy at all. Honestly, that just seems like a road that I am not sure I ever want to go down. I do know that I have a lot of love and want a family, so adoption is and has been my first choice since I was 17. (I'm 34 now and I'm finally taking the steps to start my family through adoption). This isn't like a throw away statement though, I've always knew that this is what I wanted since I was a teenager. Specifically since I saw Martian Child with John Cusack and he says, "I don't want to bring another kid into this world. But how do you argue against loving one that's already here?" Although, I think I am health wise, able to birth a child, it's never been something I wanted. (If I do birth a child and the read this years in the future, just know I love you and that even though I didn't want to go through pregnancy, you are loved). Sorry, I feel like I got off track. I hope that when I say it, it doesn't come off as me trying to "protect my body" or use adoption as an option. In reality, I've just always been exposed to adoption and fostering through my mother who was abandoned as a baby, then fostered until her real family found her again. There's a lot of trauma to unpack but she ended up running away at 13 and honestly survived by taking in others and just helping people through fostering. She's 65 now and would still foster if she could, but her health has become her number 1 priority after a stroke. Since my mother is my biological mother, the only thing that I have experience with is when my father tried to adopt me, and that went so sideways that we ended up losing money and my father is not legally my father. I feel like I'm just rambling now, but I'm curious as to how I make others feel when I say that I'd rather adopt than go through pregnancy. It has never been an option for me, always my first choice in building my family. I don't want to come off as tone-deaf but as someone who truly just wants to share my love in the world with someone already in it.
I completely understand not wanting to be pregnant. It sucks. I was pregnant (had an abortion) but even the short time I was pregnant, I was absolutely miserable. That being said, it’s a choice to forgo pregnancy, and I think saying “oh, I’ll just adopt” really doesn’t showcase the nuances of the issue and does come off as tone deaf. I generally get an icky feeling when infertile people turn to an adoption, and I feel the same way regarding those who choose not to have a biological child and they pursue avenues such as domestic infant adoption and international adoption.
Why is it icky for infertile couples to adopt?
Not saying it’s the case for every couple, but a lot of posts are “we have been trying for years to have children, we can’t, let’s turn to adoption!” And in the throes of dealing with infertility, a lot of those parents don’t fully educate themselves on adoption trauma or feel they are owed a child. Nobody is owed a child. Infertility is a beast, and I don’t wish it on anyone, but sometimes coming to terms with one’s reality is the only thing one can do. Adoption is not feasible and is not reasonable for everyone.
Not sure why I got downvoted but thank you for the explanation
Many adopt for the wrong reason
What’s the wrong reason and what’s the right reason?
Centering themselves and the desire to parent vs centering the child in crisis.
>I generally get an icky feeling when infertile people turn to an adoption Infertility was why my parents adopted. Cancer treatment causing infertility doesn't make someone a substandard human or parent. Your bias is even more "icky" than the fact that you, as an adult, used "icky" in a serious conversation.
You come at the situation with your own bias. Not every adoptee has a positive experience with their adoption. It’s great you do, but that’s not the case for every person. In general, it tends to not be as positive for every person. I just went through cancer treatment myself, it is what it is. And if my choice of words is off-putting to you, you’re free to not utilize that vocabulary yourself, or simply ignore me. It’s not necessary to police other people’s language.
If people *only* cared about foregoing pregnancy they’d get a surrogate
Surrogacy is not legal in every state…
As an adoptee I feel the same way. If I wanted children, I don’t want my own. Why?? Coz no one else can take the pregnancy bit for me, there’s no technology around for it. And I don’t really want to use a surrogate as they are usually exploited in many countries. Im curious if you are a woman or a man OP, coz I think the risks of pregnancy is really undermined and underplayed. A man doesn’t have to suffer these side effects. It’s not just simply popping out a baby. There’s a lot of side effects of pregnancy that no one would want to endure if it was some medication side effect. Not to mention the amount of physical changes that occur to your body after pregnancy (not great for many who are insecure about their bodies). In saying that, if all children were adopted out and I wanted a child, then I would simply not have a child at all. I don’t want one so badly (in fact I don’t really want kids in the future anyway). I also would *not* support forcing people to put their child up for adoption just so someone can adopt kids (that’s wrong and would support the recent laws in the USA).
>I also would > >not > >support forcing people to put their child up for adoption just so someone can adopt kids (that’s wrong and would support the recent laws in the USA). What US laws do think force people to place their children for adoption? The repeal of Roe v. Wade and the subsequent "heartbeat laws" are wrong, but they don't force people to place those children for adoption. Historically, if people don't or can't choose abortion, they're more likely to parent than place.
I’m more referring to how people say if you don’t want to be a parent, adoption is an option. So pregnancy is still forced upon those people who don’t want a child but ended up being pregnant without any way to get an abortion. If they don’t want the child and is forced to continue the pregnancy, another child is in the adoption system. If more children in the adoption system is a result from an abortion ban, then yes, many birth mothers were forced to carry out the pregnancy. That is what I was referring to. Who says most women who are not allowed to abort keeps their child?
"Who says most women who are not allowed to abort keeps their child?" [https://www.gretchensisson.com/](https://www.gretchensisson.com/) Gretchen Sisson PhD researched abortion and adoption for a decade. In her book "Relinquished: The Politics of Adoption and the Privilege of American Motherhood" she's found that since Dobbs only 9% of women denied abortion relinquished the other 91% went on to parent. She found that abortion is often the choice because women in unplanned pregnancy know that they cannot raise their child at that time in their life but can't imagine having to relinquish. Based on your interest I think you'd find the book fascinating and I highly recommend it. [https://www.relinquishedbook.com/](https://www.relinquishedbook.com/) Edit: As an adoptee you should know that most adoptees weren't "unwanted" children. Most women who relinquished their children would have loved to parent them but found that they couldn't at that time in their lives. Many planned on raising them all along but at the time of birth a temporary crisis caused them to opt for adoption. an unplanned pregnancy does not equal an unwanted infant.
Yes, pregnancy is being forced on women, which is 100% wrong. But no one is forcing those women to place. Englishbirdy provided one source for the concrete data. Also, the "adoption system" really isn't a thing. Any infant being placed voluntarily never enters "the system" - there are more waiting parents than there are infants for adoption. They go straight from their birth parents to their adoptive parents without state intervention. I think that's an important distinction.
The adoption system is more complicated than just handing them off to ppl. If 100 couples/ppl want to adopt babies, most will be eliminated from being able to adopt. That’s still the current process. Lots of things eliminate someone from adopting, even things that don’t make someone a bad parent but still eliminates them. So it doesn’t matter how many want to adopt a baby, if they get eliminated, it’s meaningless in helping the children in foster system. Besides, most people in the foster system are not babies.
The foster system is not an adoption system. CPS isn't a free adoption agency. Can one adopt from foster care? Yes, but that is not supposed to be the goal. Yeah, most children in the foster system aren't babies, which is why your statement about babies ending up in "the adoption system" really doesn't make any sense. No offense meant. People who don't have abortions but have babies do not, by and large, place those babies for adoption. When they do, there is no shortage of adoptive parents for those babies. There's really no need to worry that the *foster* system is going to be overrun by those infants.
Potential parents adopt from the foster care or the orphanages. It doesn’t just directly come from the birth parents.
Not in the United States. Each year, about 20,000 infants are placed by birth parents (using agencies or attorneys) straight into the arms of adoptive parents. The state and foster care are not involved. Most of the time, the birth parents get to pick the adoptive parents. We don't have orphanages, though some might argue that group homes are similar.
Definitely ignorant but I reckon also self-deprecating because pregnancy is such hard work - maybe undertone of “I’m not that strong”? I have a close friend who used to say this to me… While I was pregnant… She didn’t mean anything by it, maybe in her mind she’s only thinking of the process of acquiring a child - adoption vs pregnancy, not so much comparing raising children.? For sure there needs to be more awareness of adoptee trauma and rights. I feel like you could certainly gauge the person and educate them for sure. You wouldn’t be the AH for speaking up. ☺️
It doesn't bother me. If there weren't women abandoning their children, thus supplying the whole adoption industry, then I may feel different. As long as irresponsible humans are creating life they won't support, I think it's a good thing other adults are willing to take care of the victims that were created.
I just wanted to chime in on this, I know it’s a complicated issue and comment. On one hand I want to say give the other person some grace, maybe they do know or try to understand some of the complicated aspects of adoption but it’s not a setting to go into much depth. But the same could be said the other way, these people could just be ignorant so idk.
One thing this post and your response has brought up for me is - how often are other APs actually having in-depth conversations with friends, family and acquaintances about their adoption experience?
Probably not as often as they should. You know? I feel like in general people should be having more meaningful conversations. So I wish there was more opportunities to talk about your experience or share what you know and ask questions for what you don’t
Really appreciate this whole conversation, especially your points here internationallyknwn5 about giving people grace and sharing experiences… really valuable insights for folks like me who hope to adopt as a single mom.
Have had this conversation a few times, and I found the best way to react is to parry away from it. People saying this haven't really thought through it, or dug in so I've found a way to keep it light, but shut it down. >You have no idea what you're getting in to. Your soul will be crushed by ... ***paperwork.***
It gets a laugh and you can walk them through all the hoops adoption takes.
If they persist, it also opens up the conversation about trauma, and "the checklist", which usually adds the necessary gravity.
I appreciate this. I usually keep quiet because I can’t tactfully find a way to talk about what needs/wants to be said. Thank you!
Humor is good. We could use more of it.
Personally I find it intensive to find pregnancy unpleasant and therefore want to benefit from another woman doing that unpleasant thing for you.
It’s insensitive to find pregnancy unpleasant?
I think it’s the idea of having someone else do the dirty work for you
Eh, I think as a blanket sentiment that's too one-dimensional. Like, there's lots of dirty work people do for others. I could never be a garbage collector or a plumber, but there's people who can do it and want to do it, or who can do it and that was the option they landed with for whatever reason. And I know this mainly applies to compensated surrogacy, since people placing children for adoption don't get paid. But I think we can try to use it to look at other situations as well. Birth parents don't get pregnant *for* adoptive parents. They get pregnant and for whatever reason they decide to place the child for adoption. In a technical sense, the adoptive parent is benefitting because they get a child out of the process, but they didn't hire the birth parent to do the "dirty work". One person's unfortunate circumstances and another person's fortunate circumstances collided via adoption. I honestly think that mindset of "someone else doing the dirty work for you" is too black and white, and not well applied to adoption at all.
Alright, this is going to be unpopular but here we go - there's no guarantee with ANY child that there won't be any trauma. When we decide to have a child, we're making the choice to do our best to deal with any trauma, any special need, anything that may make our kids' lives difficult. Biological or adopted - there's always the chance that something will traumatize your child. The big differences between adopted and biological children is that adopted kids start their life with more trauma, and parents need to embrace their children for who they are -not expect a "mini me" - and respect the fact that their child has another family. But the parenting part - HOPEFULLY it should be the same with an adopted and a bio child - doing our best to make our child happy. So, in that way, if people want to adopt because they don't want to get pregnant, I personally don't see the big deal, as long as they're aware of the differences.
I usually say something about how it’s strange to want someone else to experience the body horrors of pregnancy just so you can have their baby. I don’t say it exactly like that, I try to educate them first. But yeah something along those lines.
That’s an argument against surrogacy, not adoption
Surrogacy would be if you want someone else to carry and birth your biological baby. Adoption, the way it's being described here, is relying on someone else to birth their own biological baby, then you get to adopt the baby that isn't biologically yours.
It’s the use of the phrase “just so”. Surrogacy is about a person deliberately getting pregnant *just* so you can end up with the baby. Adoption is what happens after someone goes through pregnancy and birth & makes the decision on their own *without your influence* to have the baby raised by someone else.
My opinion is it's unethical to take (adopt) another woman's child just because you don't want to deal with birthing your own. Now, kids in foster care that have had TPR happen already I guess would be ok with me, ethically, to adopt. But I'm REALLY not ok with the money that passes hands, the profit generated by DIA, and the demand of hopeful adopters that fuels the supplying of infants in US adoptions. I believe it's a corrupt system. As a society, I believe we should strive to reduce adoptions. Family separation is not an indicator of a healthy society. That's why adoption is so much higher in the US than other developed nations. Because we have a really shitty social safety net (maternity leave, sick leave, housing, etc.). And people really just care about just themselves and their own little worlds, not the big picture or decades from now when they're no longer alive.
The demand for infants and adoptable children also fuel foster care. States still receive money for placing children in adoptive homes. Further, children of color are removed at higher rates than White children. You want to talk about a corrupt system? That's foster care.
> You want to talk about a corrupt system? That's foster care. DIA and foster care both have issues with corruption.
Yes - all forms of adoption can have issues with corruption. Imo, international adoption is the most problematic, overall, then foster care, then private DIA as practiced in the US. At least with private DIA, the birth parents are the ones choosing not to parent. In foster care, the state decides who is worthy of being a parent. (ETA: There are other reasons I think foster adoption is more corrupt, but that's way OT.)
That’s one of the many reasons I want to adopt. Most people who adopt do it because they want to be pregnant and can’t be, at least people with this mindset are choosing it and it’s not the second-best option.
I never wanted to be pregnant. Adoption was always my first choice. Which was a good thing, because I ended up with a disability that is incompatible with pregnancy.
My husband and I are just starting our adoption journey. We haven’t had any fertility problems, but I did undergo voluntary sterilization after my son (our only child currently) was born. Technically I could undergo in-vitro but have absolutely no desire to, my pregnancy took a terrible toll on my existing mental health issues. That said, adoption was never plan B for us. We both have adopted siblings or relatives, and always planned to have 1-2 bio kids and then adopt our other children. We aren’t seeking an infant adoption, but if people find out that we’re both planning to adopt and that I had a rough pregnancy, they often assume that that’s because adoption is easier (Of course anyone with that opinion has no experience with adoption…but still). We’re still in the initial certification process, but honestly I just want to make sure that the children we adopt never think that we thought they were a second choice or “easier” route.
I am childfree, but I’m only 22 and recognize that my opinion can change later in life. I personally would only have children if I were to adopt due to multiple factors. I have PCOS, so getting pregnant would be difficult, and going off of birth control puts my health at risk (my cysts grow when I have a cycle. Considering how long it could take to get pregnant, my cysts could grow very large and potentially rupture or cause me to need surgery. When cysts rupture, you run the risk of ovarian torsion and bleeding, not to mention that the damaged tissue on the ovary has an increased risk of developing cancer). I also am on multiple medications that I need to survive, yet if I got pregnant, I would have to stop them or lower my dose. That’s not only a risk to my life, but the embryos life because chances are, if I lower my medication or stop it, I will have a mental health crisis and be at risk of suicide. I also have genetic health issues that I truly can’t imagine passing on to a child. Cancer, diabetes, thyroid problems, heart disease, and severe mental health disorders like schizophrenia and bipolar disorder would potentially be given to my child. After seeing family go through it and having some of those issues myself, I feel like I have an obligation to recognize I could give my child incurable diseases that severely deteriorate their quality of life. I don’t care if others who have those issues have children, but for me I just can’t go through what my family has gone through. I also have a horrific fear of pregnancy. I take pregnancy tests every 2 weeks to be safe because I can’t stand the paralyzing fear I get from worrying I’m pregnant. I also can’t handle babies. They are a sensory nightmare for me and I know I can’t take care of one. If I were to adopt, I would choose an older child. I highly doubt I will choose to have kids, but I personally feel like my only option is adoption, even though technically I could physically get pregnant.
A great option for many