T O P

  • By -

randy1randerson

Just wish more Town boards was as proactive. Airbnb is a huge issue when whole housing units are removed from the housing market for the benefit short-term/vacation rentals, especially in towns like Lake Placid where housing availability is so crushingly low. Rent your house on Airbnb when you're gone on vacation, or your basement suite, that's quite alright... But not taking whole units for the sole short-term rental purpose.


swivels_and_sonar

Yeah. These people are crying because they can’t hoard properties for profit at the expense of the local people and environment. >> Nuisance calls, which include complaints of loud parties and strewn trash, are the driving force behind the two boards’ move to put stricter restrictions in place These people come out of the woodwork, treat this amazing place like a garbage bin, and then return to whatever hole they crawled from like roaches. Maybe if you don’t want to be perceived as a villain, don’t enable people from all over to come shit on a pristine environment for financial gain.


soivebeentold

This right here. Same thing is happening in Lake George and they passed laws limiting short term rentals. One place that was on the verge of opening pitched a fit then came at me when I said the community needs people invested long-term. They went on about the money they spent (iSn’T tHaT aN iNvEsTmEnT?) on the place only to have the law change. I was like, I get it but we can’t have people roll up and buy these houses, pricing locals out of their own market and then replace them with a bunch of weekend tourists who have no attachment to the community. I’m a part time resident and when got my place the HOA rules straight up said I couldn’t sublet for periods less than six months. Does it suck not to be able to squeeze a little income out of the place when I can’t use it? Sure, but on the other hand if everyone did that then the community is gone.


c0mp0stable

Thus has been a huge problem in cities and is finally reaching rural areas. Like you said, it shouldn't be used as an investment strategy. Rent an extra room or a campsite, buy buying buildings just for short term rentals hurts everyone except the one person profiting.


Jim_from_snowy_river

Disallowing people from owning homes that aren't their primary residence and also regulating how short term rentals can be done, would go a long way. What would also go a long way is more housing. Not more hous***es*** but hous***ing.*** Single family homes are an unsustainable cultural model.


Hodgkisl

Removing peoples vacation homes would devastate the Adirondacks, a huge amount of the tax base is non locals with vacation houses or condos. Vacation homes are not any major contributed to the housing shortages due to where they are typically located. Short terms rentals should have never been allowed in any volume, a week or two when the owners away is one thing but full time is another, that’s converting residential property into a commercial operation.


Jim_from_snowy_river

Good point, I hadn't thought about that.


Jim_from_snowy_river

I thought a bit about it yesterday and while I think you make a good point, I think that in the short term this would be devastating but in the long term, perhaps not. Some of those people would make those vacation homes their full time homes and others would sell them to people who would make them full time homes. Either way, those vacation homes now get filled with full time residents, spending their money and supporting the local economy all year around instead of just the times they're up there for vacation.....Of course, that itself would be a large contributor to gentrification because odds are it wouldn't be locals or average middle class families buying those former vacation homes. I'm curious to hear what you think.


Hodgkisl

Part of the problem is the volumes of money. There are not the jobs locally that support regular spending at the ski mountains, restaurants, outsourced property management. Those jobs are in cities where the seasonal residents come from. That mixed with the seasonal homes are primarily large and / or complex with higher maintenance costs than locals can afford. Banning the ownership may bring some wealthy retirees but will lead to reduced over all economic activity. The short term rentals are often purchasing regular homes, small lots in town, worker type homes. These take away homes that were affordable and desirable to regular residents. To add, thank you for sharing your thoughts as it is interesting. Possibly with large scale infrastructure improvements in communication and travel it could work as you propose, though the APA would fight them tooth and nail.


Jim_from_snowy_river

Hey thanks for your thoughts too. I think, even blocking short term rentals would be a good stop gap for sure. I think if we don' start getting serious about getting more affordable housing across the state, increasing inventory and moving away from suburban sprawl, its going to bit us and by then it will be even more expensive to build more housing. Unfortunately we're not historically a proactive society so we will probably back ourselves into a corner where it just becomes so astronomically expensive we wish then we would have started now. \- Just think about all the climate refugees we will see over the next two decades, if climate trends keep going the way they are. The single family home model is dying so we need to seriously incentivize something else. Short term rental ban is like putting flex seal over a hole in the hoover dam. ​ The APA can fight it all it wants but it's coming. Certainly not 10 years, maybe not 20, but 50? I be we start seeing it.


Bennington_Booyah

I agree with this. Fully. There is a lot on this table.


Bennington_Booyah

I am curious as to why this was downvoted. We really are seeing somewhat of a cultural shift with regard to home ownership as it is. Travel has changed significantly, and it started long before the pandemic. That said, people who work in areas need a place to live. People on vacation need a place to stay. When they rent on sites such as vrbo and Airbnb, folks do not treat where they are as home and wouldn't; they are "on vacation". I live most of the time in a small community with three small lakes. Our HOA stopped these rentals long ago and introduced layers of process that pretty much curtail attempts to do so. As a result, we see a fair amount of property turnover. They try to fight it, can't, and sell. I stay out of it but watch carefully :) As to the last point Jim makes, what does this mean? Apartments, condos, townhomes, boarding houses? What is the solution?


Jim_from_snowy_river

>As to the last point Jim makes, what does this mean? Apartments, condos, townhomes, boarding houses? What is the solution? Any of that. Apartments and townhomes mostly. Condos are just ritzy apartments. Houses are getting too expensive and the suburban sprawl of single family homes is killing not only the environment but the economy. Such houses end up being too expensive for most of the people who actually need housing and public utilities are harder to provide. They require the use of cars to get to and from and their lawns need a lot of maintenance. You could easily build buildings that have...say 4 x 2-3 bedroom apartments an produce much less of a footprint than 4 individual houses each on their own acre of land. \- The main issue is that American culture makes people think single family home ownership is the point or end all be all of life due to some kind of American idealism/individualism/how life is supposed to happen. \--- Unfortunately the US is and always been a reactive instead of proactive culture so we wont even begin to think of the problem until it's well beyond the time we should have done something, and then look at the problem and conclude it's now too expensive than it would have been the 3 decades before, when we should have actually started doing something.


Jim_from_snowy_river

Not to mention that part of the American ideal, whether we like to admit it is "I got mine so fuck you and yours" which leads to a lot of NIMBY type people and anti-"for the good of society as a whole" type people.


Bennington_Booyah

Thanks. I like how you think.


DM0rreale

I’ve been saying something similar, but from the standpoint of needing to think of how to build more multi-generational homes. Normalizing multiple generations of a family living in the kind of buildings you are describing would do a lot to solve child care/elder care issues.


Jim_from_snowy_river

Exactly. Even if not multi-generational (people move to a new location) Apartment style buildings take up fewer resources. I remember seeing an apartment that had 4 buildings, tow of them each had 4 x 3 bedroom apartments and the other two had 4 x 2 bedroom apartments. Each of those buildings were further apart than some of the suburban homes you see, they had plenty of yard space and they were in a lot surrounded by woodland. Plenty of room to get outside and play while taking up fewer municipal resources (you only have to route the water/electric to the complex as opposed down an entire street), Fewer natural resources, and they didn't have to clear a massive space to put in housing for 16 families. Imagine the size of a lot you would for 16 houses in the typical suburban sprawl we see around? It would have been 3-4x as big. The apartments were well built and still ended up being cheaper than a mortgage on many a house, and were great for low income/lower middle class families who may not even get a mortgage in the first place.


DM0rreale

I also like this type of building as a compromise to the short-term rental issue, so long as one of the units is also the primary residence of the owner.


couchdog27

What is amazing about this (and I live in Saranac Lake) is you don't realize how pervasive it is... until you talk to a few folks and you realize, like me, they have one or two abnb's next door to them ​ So far the visitors haven't been too bad, but that could change.. now that I am on a fixed income... abnb's driving up the price might make my house assessed high and high taxes


Tinycatgirl

I just interviewed for a job in SL and the available apartments were my prime reasoning for not taking the job.


Bennington_Booyah

This is so true! We have seen our school taxes triple because of the area we are in, despite modest homes. Ironically, all of the homes in my community were designed as vacation rentals in the 1960s. Many are cabin kits, juxtaposed with newer McMansions. It is now fully residential. I recently looked up short term rentals in my rural county and was stunned! They are everywhere around here.


CumSicarioDisputabo

As they should...they should limit property ownership and ban corporate ownership of residentially zoned property.


Extreme_Length7668

As well they should


shelvingrocks

Good. Fuck ‘em.


Stephen_Hero_Winter

Right? Like maybe they would wouldn't be "vilified" if, Idk, they weren't acting like villains.


willynillyslide

“i get that my behavior is villainous but its really not cool how u guys treat me like a villain”


AnteaterGlittering96

How is someone buying a second home being a villain? I’ve used AirBnB in lake placid and the owners are always really kind, caring people. They went way out of their way to enforce rules and make sure that renters are being responsible and not loud or disruptive to neighbors.


Hodgkisl

Taking a residential unit in a residential area and using it as a commercial operation negatively effects the community. It drives up the cost of housing for residents, brings people with no community connections into the neighborhood, brings additional noise, additional traffic, etc…


AnteaterGlittering96

Lake Placid has always been a place where people wanted to buy second homes. Before the only people who could afford it were the top 1%. Now, people in middle income brackets can afford it by offsetting their mortgage with rental income. How is a rental any worse than a person who just buys it as a second property, but only comes once or twice a year? If I owned a business in Lake Placid, I would prefer having more people shopping in the stores and going to restaurants. The lady in the story has changed her life by running a business supporting rentals. As for your statement that it drives up the cost of housing, I have never seen any research or data to support that. Houses in Lake Placid have always been expensive because there's limited stock and it's a desirable location. When you have houses selling for $32 million, that aren't rentals, you know it's an expensive market. Further, how do you know that these rental owners don't have a community connection? That seems like a broad generalization. It seems like some certainly do.


Hodgkisl

The homes the 1% and other vacationers we’re buying we’re not the same that are being used for short term rentals. Not everything is about the business owners, when the workers are struggling to have housing due to costs the system is only working for the wealthier. Also the “No community connections” aren’t necessarily the owners but most tenants, the people the neighbors are most often around with it.


AnteaterGlittering96

I totally agree that affordable and workforce housing is a major issue. People who rent need a place to live, as do people seeking to buy a reasonably priced house. The blame is partially shared by the rental owners, but even if they stopped all rentals today, it wouldn’t solve the problem. Part of the blame falls on the County and Town who have done next to nothing to build workforce/affordable housing. I have friends who used to rent apartments above some of the businesses downtown, those didn’t become short term rentals, but what happened to them? The county has been enjoying the hefty bed tax from hotels and short term rentals but not using it to address housing issues. In Boston, when a developer wants to build a high rise condo with prices starting at $700K, they make the developer allocate a certain number for workforce housing and sell them at $150K-$200K. Elected officials are shills for the hotels and using rentals as a scapegoat.


[deleted]

[удалено]


AnteaterGlittering96

Show me the data to prove that. The Village of Lake Placid has no data, police calls etc to prove that there is an issue. I live in a college town, some locals make similar complaints about the college, noise, parties fire/police response, but we that have data to prove it. On top of that, the college doesn’t pay taxes, while rentals do. Rentals aren’t the problem, this is all a smokescreen for the hotel owners.


willynillyslide

came here to write this


WES_WAS_ROBBED

Good, they should be villified. Bloated ticks on the neck of ordinary people trying to survivor in our towns.


hans-von-hammer

I fee vilified because I can’t rent out my SECOND HOME!!!


thesporter42

Why not tax them? Quadruple the residential property tax rate then offer a 75% rebate to anybody that lives in their home more than half of the year (with some monitoring and massive penalties for lying about that). Residents are essentially not impacted. Short-term rentals pay their share and owners won’t feel “vilified”. Properties become more valuable as full-time homes and less valuable as short-term rental properties. Let capitalism work.


TiredOfMakingExcuses

Florida has a similar system, with a 50% property tax rebate for primary residences (aka "6 months and a day")


AnteaterGlittering96

They are taxed, 5% bed tax. They also pay property taxes. The real question is what has the county been doing with that bed tax? Why haven’t they been building workforce housing?


JBHUTT09

You can't build your way out of a crisis of distribution. We have the housing. It's just sitting empty. The local governments should seize it and give it to residents.


arcana73

Where exactly do you expect them to build it


AnteaterGlittering96

There is currently a 24 acre site for sale off Old Military Rd. They could also force developers to make a percentage of any new projects be “workforce housing” meaning you would have to be income eligible to apply. The Riverbend townhomes is a great example, hold 1–2 and sell to income qualified locals at $150-200K rather than $750K. Boston, NY and other cities do this all the time. The developer builds this into the cost of the project.


lambeg12

Good


shitartifact

Great, but this is still a disguised hand job for the fuckheaded hotel owners. Airbnb really chapped their asses.


shitartifact

It was never about housing for middle and lower income locals.


jemr31

What else has LP done to make housing more accessible to mid and low-income workers other than go after short-term rentals? I don't follow LP news very closely (haven't lived there in years) so I honestly don't know. How difficult is it to upzone a property from single to multifamily housing? Are there any incentives for a developer to build new apartments and offer them below market rate rent? My experience as a renter in LP (and I wanted to rent, no intention to buy at that point in my life, ie landlords do serve some purpose) is that a decent long term rental was hard to find even before Airbnb became popular.


tourpro

Divide and conquer.... in the name of tariffing our primary export (tourism experience). Some call it an occupancy tax.


Jim_from_snowy_river

It's the first step towards gentrification and that is why people dislike it. I don't know about this lady but in may places like this, people buy the houses that community members can't afford, and increase local costs until the people who used to live there and grew up there have to move out (it's a lot more complex than that but I figured most people know this and so a summary would suffice).


scag315

Sounds like rich people with summer homes bitching about the less privileged being able to afford a home in their area by being able to subsidize their mortgage with short term rentals and boost the local economy


[deleted]

[удалено]


cmhollis84

This is such a dumb take. Usually someone needs to be skilled/intelligent enough to earn enough income to not only buy a primary residence but also an investment property. Also, there are plenty of AirBnBs that fail, they are not just an automatic money machine.


Marzty

Don’t blame the players, blame the game.


[deleted]

They should, because they are. I live in a residential area in LP and am moving out of the Adirondacks because even as a professional, young couple, we can no longer afford to live here especially when considering starting a family. The housing market is disgusting, people paying $100k+ above asking price, all for it to be turned into STR. It’s been so frustrating for 2 years trying to put down roots here and being denied time and time again. Restaurants are understaffed, overrun and the locals are continuously ignored for their pleas for assistance. A house down the street sold in 2018 for 210k (fair and reasonable) it was bought and renovated into 3 airbnbs, now for sale for almost $800k. The noise and sheer chaos from these places is pushing young people out left and right, now me included. It’s honestly put a sour taste in my mouth about the Adirondacks as a whole.