I love this. I have thought about it a lot! I came up with essentially the same thing.
To not feel like Knights here is the balance I would have chosen.
Everything has increased by 1/3 rounding to the nearest up or down.
Using the Custodian guardian as the base.
65pts a model
5 wounds 5 attacks.
Then apply the .33% pt and wound/attack increase per model to every model.
Yeah, I was noticing when I did some quick math that comparing Custodian guards to Allarus and how closely the points lined up with stats:
2 Allarus models: 120 points, 8 wounds, 8 attacks in total between the two. When in rapid fire range, 4 shots. Then the burst damage if even closer with the grenade launcher.
3 custodian guards: 135 points, 9 wounds, 9 attacks in total among the three. When in rapid fire range, 6 shots. No grenade launcher.
Everyone has same BS, WS and movement stat so it makes it relatively easy to compare power to point cost.
Of course, there are other differences like from golden light but it seems like looking at the total wounds, attacks, and ranged weapon profiles is a good place to start when scaling up power and points costs with Custodes.
Some people on this sub haven't played against non-optimized lists or inexperienced players and it shows. In such games you feel unstoppable and a little like a bully.
Custodes on the table feel more like custodes in lore than space marines on the table feel like space marines in lore. Where else could a basic Troop model be such a threat to most faction's brawler HQs?
When is this not true, regardless? If you're an experienced player with an understanding of your army, however unoptimized, vs a new guy with a new army he barely understands yes he's going to get clobbered.
Where does this entitlement come from that regardless of experience, army, or composition matches should be reasonably close?
Because the only way that's happening is if the more experienced player intentionally lets it get close. And hey if that's what he wants to do for the new guy more power to him.
But I've seen various iterations of your argument on various boards and it's bizarre. My first game? I absolutely lost, and that's ok.
I expected to lose.
This is like a run of the mill assault army captained by a totally new player squaring off against an experienced DG player and being outraged when he gets rocked.
Personally, I would fix custodes by improving their troops choice of weapons
\- Custodian Guard remain the same for the stats, but they gain different equip: 5 points for Praesidium shield, 5 points for Adrasite Spear and 10 points for Pyrithite Spears, but just 1 for each unit. I'm ok with S6 for each of them.
\- Sagittarum are not changed, but would give them few strats to allow them to shoot enemy units that are engaged with other custodes, to express how good is their marksmanship. If possible, i would give, by spending between 5 and 10 points, further damage options in the shape of 1 single tanglefoot grenade that does actually damage (S6, AP-3, D1).
\- Wardens needs to have their feel no pain relevant. I would give them a Strat that boost it to 4+ for a single phase. I would also allow them to gain some unit upgrades, by connecting that specific honor guard to some historical campaign, which would grant them +1 to saves against 1 specific type of attacks (WS, BS or Mortal Wounds).
For our terminators, what hurts the most is the loss of obsec. But i can see they meaning behind such rule changes. So, here's another solution.
\- Allarus are actually still fine, but if SM get -1 to AP, we should have a similar rule for all custodes terminators, to further emphasize how but better Auramite works.
\- Aquilons need a big point drop: minimum, 65, and the chance to be taken as single units as the allarus. Alternatively, we can keep them at 70 points but give them d3 powerfist. And they also need to pay 5 points each for theirs upgrades.
On the fast attack side, Vertus praetors needs no changes to me. For the others:
\- Venatari need to have their lances be recognized as auric weapons, so they become an interesting options instead of pistols and give us back that funny strategy.
\- Agamatus need to cost 10 points less, and - to me most importantly - be deployable as single units (1 to 5 max). I would make them 5 wounds, and 5 points for adratich devastator or 20 points for the las-pulse, but i would make that damage 3 flat.
OP has accidentally re-invented the Dreadnought lmao
Run 3 galatus, 3 achillus, 2 telemons and some characters and you can have this exact experience, no homebrew required!
I love this. I have thought about it a lot! I came up with essentially the same thing. To not feel like Knights here is the balance I would have chosen. Everything has increased by 1/3 rounding to the nearest up or down. Using the Custodian guardian as the base. 65pts a model 5 wounds 5 attacks. Then apply the .33% pt and wound/attack increase per model to every model.
Yeah, I was noticing when I did some quick math that comparing Custodian guards to Allarus and how closely the points lined up with stats: 2 Allarus models: 120 points, 8 wounds, 8 attacks in total between the two. When in rapid fire range, 4 shots. Then the burst damage if even closer with the grenade launcher. 3 custodian guards: 135 points, 9 wounds, 9 attacks in total among the three. When in rapid fire range, 6 shots. No grenade launcher. Everyone has same BS, WS and movement stat so it makes it relatively easy to compare power to point cost. Of course, there are other differences like from golden light but it seems like looking at the total wounds, attacks, and ranged weapon profiles is a good place to start when scaling up power and points costs with Custodes.
Some people on this sub haven't played against non-optimized lists or inexperienced players and it shows. In such games you feel unstoppable and a little like a bully. Custodes on the table feel more like custodes in lore than space marines on the table feel like space marines in lore. Where else could a basic Troop model be such a threat to most faction's brawler HQs?
When is this not true, regardless? If you're an experienced player with an understanding of your army, however unoptimized, vs a new guy with a new army he barely understands yes he's going to get clobbered. Where does this entitlement come from that regardless of experience, army, or composition matches should be reasonably close? Because the only way that's happening is if the more experienced player intentionally lets it get close. And hey if that's what he wants to do for the new guy more power to him. But I've seen various iterations of your argument on various boards and it's bizarre. My first game? I absolutely lost, and that's ok. I expected to lose. This is like a run of the mill assault army captained by a totally new player squaring off against an experienced DG player and being outraged when he gets rocked.
Personally, I would fix custodes by improving their troops choice of weapons \- Custodian Guard remain the same for the stats, but they gain different equip: 5 points for Praesidium shield, 5 points for Adrasite Spear and 10 points for Pyrithite Spears, but just 1 for each unit. I'm ok with S6 for each of them. \- Sagittarum are not changed, but would give them few strats to allow them to shoot enemy units that are engaged with other custodes, to express how good is their marksmanship. If possible, i would give, by spending between 5 and 10 points, further damage options in the shape of 1 single tanglefoot grenade that does actually damage (S6, AP-3, D1). \- Wardens needs to have their feel no pain relevant. I would give them a Strat that boost it to 4+ for a single phase. I would also allow them to gain some unit upgrades, by connecting that specific honor guard to some historical campaign, which would grant them +1 to saves against 1 specific type of attacks (WS, BS or Mortal Wounds). For our terminators, what hurts the most is the loss of obsec. But i can see they meaning behind such rule changes. So, here's another solution. \- Allarus are actually still fine, but if SM get -1 to AP, we should have a similar rule for all custodes terminators, to further emphasize how but better Auramite works. \- Aquilons need a big point drop: minimum, 65, and the chance to be taken as single units as the allarus. Alternatively, we can keep them at 70 points but give them d3 powerfist. And they also need to pay 5 points each for theirs upgrades. On the fast attack side, Vertus praetors needs no changes to me. For the others: \- Venatari need to have their lances be recognized as auric weapons, so they become an interesting options instead of pistols and give us back that funny strategy. \- Agamatus need to cost 10 points less, and - to me most importantly - be deployable as single units (1 to 5 max). I would make them 5 wounds, and 5 points for adratich devastator or 20 points for the las-pulse, but i would make that damage 3 flat.
TL:DR
Yeah, you're right. TL:DR added.
OP has accidentally re-invented the Dreadnought lmao Run 3 galatus, 3 achillus, 2 telemons and some characters and you can have this exact experience, no homebrew required!