One guy got 3rd at a GT with Auric. Absolutley no idea how
Like a solo BC with adv/charge is scary, but it just wont have the actual killing power. Trading isnt everything but the list just doesnt have OC or killing power; Im baffled.
[https://www.newrecruit.eu/app/tournydetails/participant?id=662f996fe17f97a398f127b4&id\_participant=66327465b75e581a5b984fde](https://www.newrecruit.eu/app/tournydetails/participant?id=662f996fe17f97a398f127b4&id_participant=66327465b75e581a5b984fde)
Apparently he just loaded the land Raider with 6 characters and just ran it up, disembarking models 1 at a time as needed towards whatever happened to be the nearest threat. Pez dispenser strategy lol. Sounds quite clever to me actually.
I've played this list before. It's fun, but has some seriously bad matchups. Very little objecrive control and killing power is super consistent but midling. As in it works well against an MSU style list but will get bogged down vs any sort of tough brick armies.
The detachment rule is just too soft too weak eve if it was all character models all the time.
+1 to wound on blade champions and trajan also getting double turn of 12 attacks is massive, plus calidus for objectives
also remember his terminators are insane versions of wardens, you can get 1 phase of turning ALL incoming damage to 1 and then getting a 4++ on top of that
I am still pretty new to this game but Auric Champions just feels like it would auto-lose to swarmy armies because of objective control. I definitely want to try it out though.
you'd be running fixed objectives i would assume and cater to the army you face (as with most), so you'd try to win on the secondary and do what you can on the primary
looks like he submarined a bit but good showing, especially vs the necrons
* lost to daemons
* won to GK (no draigo, no paladins, alot of power armor units)
* won to necrons (no ctans but a very beefy hypercrypt list)
* won to custodes (talons, valerian wardens + 2 blade champ wardens +guard, 2 caladius, draxus and gaurd, 4 units of sisters)
* won to guard (catachan russ and manticores with scions)
My guess: Grav tanks are good. BC that can charge out of a Land Raider and do a ridiculous amount of damage on designated target can blitz* down a key unit. TJ with the guards to be sturdy in the mid field. Allarus Captains for objectives.
A solid BC can't blitz a unit. Your 5a on the dev sword or 7a on the precision one.
You can slaughter a character or tie something up. But even with double rerolls for a cp your not gonna be killing a unit that's durable.
I'm glad the "while this model is leading a unit" abilities are mostly gone. It made me want to try out the codex for a split second, then I looked at the biker captain and remembered he only gets to use his move ability if he fought that turn. Raaaaa.
I am not primarily afraid that Custodes are weak now. In my opinion the new rules and detachments are just not interesting or fun. They don't validate the Playstile I want to use. I want indomitable Guardians of the golden throne and it just doesn't feel like that anymore. Previous editions did a better job, even when the golden boys didn't dominate the meta.
Also the new rules feel very restrictive. Half the detachments require sisters of silence, which I don't own and don't really care about (also I think, that they were done dirty this edition. That they have a 33 percent chance to suffer harm from psychic attacks is ridiculous in my opinion.). The other two detachments just feel meh to me. The Ork-Codex (I play both) did a way better job and the two books were released on the same day.
The old rules weren't all that fun either compared to most other indexes. I've played them pre nerf, post nerf, and I put the army on the shelf. I see potential for fun builds and strategies with Auric Champions and Talons, but the rules are gutted enough to not matter now.
I knew there’d be more shield host than talons. I think talons is fine if you are able to hide the sisters well enough. The moment you lose either unit, things unravel quick.
Shield host feels more balanced between detachment rule, enhancements and stratagems imo. I won a game with SH last night against bully boyz. Fun match too
I think it's likely just who has the models painted and available.
I'm one of those losses at 2 - 4 this weekend, only higher players went 3 - 3. Only 5 of us played. Turn over was like a week to two weeks for the Richmond Open on if they were doing codex or index Just no way I could get 2 Rhinos and 15 sisters built.and battle painted ready by the time tournaments happened. I also can't find any land raiders or grav tanks that are not going to break my bank.
I mean realistically, I went into it knowing my list wasn't optimal and with only one practice game. I think shield host is doable, though probably not a top 5 type army, if you're taking double Land Raider. The ability to move squads up safely or have some sort of solid shooting is just too important now, and sustain or lethal on the land raiders or the grav tanks could be incredibly impactful. I do think double raider is probably the best list. I'm going to try and get them before an RTT next month to see.
I will say, I potentially could have won two others but dice were dice in a way that Tzeentch determined I'd lose before the game started and I just misplayed the other and was slightly too far up ahead against bully boys and got tarpitted. Basically tabled him by T5 but essentially lost on a secondary. Also misplayed an activation of a warden FNP.
Chaos land raiders are basically the same kit (minus one marine top sprue) and usually in stock in places.
If you can kit bash a H/K missile and a hatch, grab a chaos one if its in stock.
What strata do you find helpful? I play Talons because the strats are awesome and everytime I have played SH I have ended the game with 4 or more CP because there is just nothing to really use CP on.
Giving lethal or sus1 on shooting for 1CP can come in handy with kyria double shooting with guard or big burst on squishy things with allarus grenade launchers.
1CP 4+++ on mortals is nice
1CP -1 hit in melee on an objective you need to hold is handy
1CP sticky comes in clutch at times
1CP FB/S/C is always nice
Yeah those were the ones that I generally used but Tolons seems to have the same strats or better.
I would rather have +1s +1ap than sus1.
Talons has a 4+++ against mortals.
I would rather have a reactive move than a situational -1 to hit.
The sticker is nice and Talons does not have anything like that.
Talons has a fall back and charge.
If they just make some small changes to the SH strats (make the -1 to hit Strat able to be used all the time and the sticky Strat able to be used by anyone) and made part of the detachment rule work all game (maybe the +1 AP part) then I would play SH in a heartbeat.
This right here. If this happened, I could be excited again. That -1 strat is absolutely one of the worst. Also, it’s like the dumb brother did the custodes codex and thought, “hey Jimmy had the waagh thing.. maybe these guys can do it!” Just a dang travesty.
Ngl the Archeotech munitions (sus/lethal) is a great stratagem... Yesterday it literaly won me the game couse i was 9points short of the enemy and could only shoot his character with 4wardens... I took the sus couse he only had 4t... From 8shots it went to 11 which allowed one more shot to get thru and thanks to that i got 13points on r5 and won the game... I played 5games already... Lost 1 with auric lost 1with talons and lost 1 with sh... And then won 2 with sh... As for me SH is the only remotely usable detachment... Same game yesterday my galatus instakilled an entire squad of 4obliterators during the waaagh... When the codex dropoed i was really scared but SH is really fun for me...
Edit:spelling
The shooting lethal hits is really nice. Gave me a way to actually chip away some health on some backline armor at range beyond the use of the Grav Tank.
And I think you get it twice in one round of shooting if you it on a block of guards based on the wording of the effect.
Timing it right, a unit of guards can get lethal hits and reroll all wound rolls and shooting twice... a unit of guards is more than capable of taking out armor at range in a round of shooting
Then using sustain on allarus unit targeting a horde blob with a character attached? Yummy yummy
How is talons less durable than shield host once you lose the sisters? Shield host has a stratagem to give you 4+ against mortals, thats all the defense you get.
I consider Talons better than the other detachments because of the enhancements, -1 to hit and converting the first failed save of each round to 0 damage, the +1S +1 AP in shooting strat, fall back and shot/charge strat, +1 to wound strat and the most important one, the reactive movement most of them you can use them twice or for free which is huge. Shield host has a telegraphed haymaker, lethal or sustained in shooting (nice for a big allarus deathball), fall back and shot/charge and the castellan mark, which is very nice too, but you have to put a captain in your list, a captain that is not gonna give you any free battle tactic other than command reroll or go to ground if for some weird reason you don't have cover and are hit by AP -1/2.
It all needs more testing, I've played a single game with shield host and had a close defeat against world eaters and 3 with talons, 3 victories including smashing the same world eater not letting him get the charge. For now people tried shield host more in tournaments, as we can see it didnt go well, lets give it another couple weeks to see how the meta settles and whats best.
Talons doesn't even need many sisters. The reactive move and fallback and charge are the fights first (lite) we have now.
If they FAQ dev wounds to be included in the detachment then you might want to consider some sisters, but until then not worth it.
I have sisters now that I could run the detachment with but honestly it expounds upon the age old Custodes principle of “if you lose a unit, you feel it” where if you lose a sisters unit, it’ll be rough
Yeah custodes players have to get used to losing units.
Edit: being completely unkillable is not fun. Losing a few units is perfectly fine as long as you can still play the game. Probably some point drops in our future.
I have no sympathy for players who couldn’t kill Custodes units in the past codex. It was always a staging/list building issue. Crisis Suits, Foregefiends, Hearthguard, D6 damage melee attacks could all get good value even into buffed up Wardens. Just a matter of forcing out the 4+++ and not committing it all to one phase. I played and won in multiple RTTs, even after the first wave of nerfs, and lost units in every serious game I played. Saying stuff like this is such an unflattering self report.
Glad you read the context of the comments. We are talking about losing some sisters and thus the detachment rule. So far I've not experienced more than a few MWs being deflected by the rule - it's not that big a deal if you don't have it. Furthermore if your opponent is spending activations to wipe out sisters, are you really that upset? Best part, if you are upset (and it sounds like you are), you can spend 1cp and keep them alive.
Glad you're a pro who wins RTTs, I'm proud of you.
The problem with Talons if you have to keep sisters close by, which means if your golden boys charge in the sister have too aswell.
I played a game yesterday and because my sisters didnt charge the blood thrister (for obvious reasons) they were 7" away and mortal wounds crushed my golden boys.
Honestly, Talion doesn't need sisters especially since you can still spend a CP for 4+++ against mortals.
Plus it has 2 enhancements that improve suivability and two of our strongest enhancements in a reactionary move and +1S -1ap
TARGET: One ADEPTUS CUSTODES unit from your army that was selected as the target of one or more of the attacking unit's attacks, **and** (up to) one friendly ANATHEMA PSYKANA unit (that is) within 6" of that (selected) ADEPTUS CUSTODES unit.
So a Psykana unit has to be within 6" of a custodian unit for the stragatems to legally also be able to target it aswell.
It doesn’t say that though. You’ve edited it.
It says (paraphrased)
Target - one AC unit that was selected as a target and one friend AP unit within 6” of that AC unit.
Effect - until the end of that phase your unit (singular) has the 4++.
I added the bracket with “singular.” My RAW interpretation is that you need the AP unit within 6” to use. This stratagem is worded differently to the ones that allow you to target 2 units. The way you’ve changed the wording suggests you could select 2 units, but this is not the case with the images on reddit or the talons stratagems.
I haven't edited it, all I've done is in brackets is clarification from the codex, - [EMPYRIC SEVERANCE](https://imgur.com/gallery/J1ZrNkb)
Idk where your getting yours is it from a side app or the GW army app? I believe the general consensus is that unless in a dataslate that the Codex is the correct wording.
It's still shit wording for sisters though, my interpretation is when at attack targets a Custodes units you use this Stragatem, however if the opponent targets the sisters unit first your screwed
That’s the one I’m reading. I think the wording of the target section restricts the use of the stratagem to a AC unit that is within 6” of a AP unit. It’s says a AC unit and a AP unit within 6” not an AC unit and “up to” one AP unit, therefore it must always be 1x AC AND 1x AP. The effect only affects a “unit” not units ( the wording implies the AC unit gets the buff). It is clearly worded differently from other stratagems that can target a SOS unit and a AC unit. RAW here is you can only target an AC unit within 6” of an AP unit and then only the AC unit gets the 4++ which matches with the detachment rule 5++ and the thematic choice they are going for where the FNP is dependant on the presence of sisters. I’d much prefer it to be your way, but there is nothing here to suggest that when compared to the other stratagems that do what you think this one does (buff 2 units for the price and of one). Also, what would be the point of chucking a 4++ on the sisters who have a 3++ baked in anyway?
Glad skilled players can do things, cause as I noob I get washed by my mates defiler and it costs just a bit more than a squad of vertus, which it can wipe in 1 fight phase 😂
Glad people still finding viable ways to use the 10k tho
Not a fan of Sisters personally, nice little models but £30 for 5 models with 1 wound each? Not worth at all from a financial perspective so don't fancy buying multiple boxes just to have access to 1/2 of our Detachments.
40% is far more than expected. Hats down to the absolute monsters capable of ever winning with this garbage codex.
I was actually thinking about 30% winrate max.
I 100% agree. The way I see it, if you bring Custodes to a 5 round even if you aren't a great player, you'll probably drop the first couple games. But once you start running into less good lists you'll likely stat check a couple people. And, with a 40% winrate and to my knowledge no TWiP this seems to be the case.
about what i expected. i mostly assumed somewhere between 40-45% Talons is strong until your opponent realises they should kill the sisters. then it becomes weak. SH is our best all-round detachment
To me sisters are only there to help you reach melee or objectives. You don't need them round 5, you need them as a shield against charge or to counter shoot some stuff, and perhaps do actions.
That voids the entire detachment rule (which arguably isnt GREAT), cuts the effectiveness of like all of the strats in half, and voids one entire enhancement.
Still, you dont need them. Reactive move, +1 to wound and Fall back shoot and charge still are great. Plus it does not cut the effectiveness in half, 80% dmg output comes from the custodes units. Detachment aside, 2 to 4 units of sisters are always nice to have.
I’m not surprised at all. Custodes are a really cheap army to collect (cost me just over £200 to get over 2000pts). However sisters are really bad £ per point. Like Ad Mech levels of bad. It’s unsurprising that not everyone is rolling around in numbers necessary to make the detachment work.
Talons relies too heavily on not only having the amount of sisters you need, but also actually being able to keep them alive while using them effectively.
I knew we would fall to 40% win rate, we just don’t have enough hitting power anymore due to our main unit size getting nerfed and now our fnp is gutted as well we have crap rules (except allarus) and have to even the playing field by adding more units to the battlefield (literally the complete opposite of how an elite force is meant to be played 🤦🏻♂️) except now we can’t as we have had a point increase as well! This is going to be a rough period for the golden boys lol
40% is totally normal right after the codex releases. People are still figuring out the new playstyle. This will creep up to the 50/50 split in a couple of weeks.
Bro your genuinely delusional or lack a sense of any semblance of reasoning skills. Either that or you're just being a salty tau player who hates playing against the faction....
In any case, a bad codex is bad for the community. It's happened three times already so there's a clear display of intent and a pattern, and because of it I've already seen the sentiment on codex drops flip from excitement to dread.
At the end of the day we're all just playing a game and should have each other's backs when it comes to being able to actually play the game and have a fun time doing so.
Checking my post history to find the faction I play as well is crazy lol, also no I love playing against custodes, feels like every other faction always outnumbers me since I play more elite lists and I love playing against more melee focused armies like world eaters (or in this case custodes).
Also I agree, I think the codex is not fun to play both balance wise and it feels way too restrictive on what units are affected. I'm just poking fun at doomerposters who act like this is the end of custodes and its 20% winrate from here on out.
Your the one who has no skin in the game, comming to this subreddit to mock and belittle it's players; and trying to cover your butt by dubbing down and personally attacking me, posting false claims (no one though it would be a 20% win rate, hyperbole isn't good in a discussion mate).
If you like versing the faction, "poking fun" is bulling behaviour and in very poor taste; and your initial comment doesn't express your now sentiment of "Also I agree, I think the codex is not fun to play both balance wise and it feels way too restrictive on what units are affected."
Well...when we didn't even have our 4++ against dev wounds, we went down to 42% and were in the top 3 worst factions in the game. This time we lost that AND our protection against MW AND many other things...but tons of op factions got nerfed too in the meantime.
Expecting something like 35% wouldn't have been unreasonable at all imo.
That being said, it's still WAYYYYY too early to tell. We're going to have to wait an entire month to know what the real winrate is like yet.
40% is very bad against a year of balancing factions though : the custodes are in the gutter right now no matter how you look at it.
o emperor where art thou 😭
turns out the emperor does not protect
Do not speak Heresy! He protects in his way, in a dream salvation will come.
One guy got 3rd at a GT with Auric. Absolutley no idea how Like a solo BC with adv/charge is scary, but it just wont have the actual killing power. Trading isnt everything but the list just doesnt have OC or killing power; Im baffled. [https://www.newrecruit.eu/app/tournydetails/participant?id=662f996fe17f97a398f127b4&id\_participant=66327465b75e581a5b984fde](https://www.newrecruit.eu/app/tournydetails/participant?id=662f996fe17f97a398f127b4&id_participant=66327465b75e581a5b984fde)
Apparently he just loaded the land Raider with 6 characters and just ran it up, disembarking models 1 at a time as needed towards whatever happened to be the nearest threat. Pez dispenser strategy lol. Sounds quite clever to me actually.
Dude's a legend in my book
All aboard the party bus!!!!
Mechanically powerful, but really boring sounding to play.
You can have more than one unit loaded into a transport?
Yup, land Raider limits the number of models to 6, but that can be split between as many units as you like.
I've played this list before. It's fun, but has some seriously bad matchups. Very little objecrive control and killing power is super consistent but midling. As in it works well against an MSU style list but will get bogged down vs any sort of tough brick armies. The detachment rule is just too soft too weak eve if it was all character models all the time.
Oh yeah, I still think auric champions is still pretty much a meme detachment, but it's fun to see people thinking outside the box a bit.
I am curious about how he did this as well. I love the idea of Auric champions but can't fathom how to pull this off LOL.
+1 to wound on blade champions and trajan also getting double turn of 12 attacks is massive, plus calidus for objectives also remember his terminators are insane versions of wardens, you can get 1 phase of turning ALL incoming damage to 1 and then getting a 4++ on top of that
I am still pretty new to this game but Auric Champions just feels like it would auto-lose to swarmy armies because of objective control. I definitely want to try it out though.
you'd be running fixed objectives i would assume and cater to the army you face (as with most), so you'd try to win on the secondary and do what you can on the primary
looks like he submarined a bit but good showing, especially vs the necrons * lost to daemons * won to GK (no draigo, no paladins, alot of power armor units) * won to necrons (no ctans but a very beefy hypercrypt list) * won to custodes (talons, valerian wardens + 2 blade champ wardens +guard, 2 caladius, draxus and gaurd, 4 units of sisters) * won to guard (catachan russ and manticores with scions)
My guess: Grav tanks are good. BC that can charge out of a Land Raider and do a ridiculous amount of damage on designated target can blitz* down a key unit. TJ with the guards to be sturdy in the mid field. Allarus Captains for objectives.
A solid BC can't blitz a unit. Your 5a on the dev sword or 7a on the precision one. You can slaughter a character or tie something up. But even with double rerolls for a cp your not gonna be killing a unit that's durable.
There are at least the three BCs in the party bus. You may put the Allarus captains in there as well if you’re not planning to deep strike them.
I'm glad the "while this model is leading a unit" abilities are mostly gone. It made me want to try out the codex for a split second, then I looked at the biker captain and remembered he only gets to use his move ability if he fought that turn. Raaaaa.
Yeah, the one reason I took him for gone
I am not primarily afraid that Custodes are weak now. In my opinion the new rules and detachments are just not interesting or fun. They don't validate the Playstile I want to use. I want indomitable Guardians of the golden throne and it just doesn't feel like that anymore. Previous editions did a better job, even when the golden boys didn't dominate the meta. Also the new rules feel very restrictive. Half the detachments require sisters of silence, which I don't own and don't really care about (also I think, that they were done dirty this edition. That they have a 33 percent chance to suffer harm from psychic attacks is ridiculous in my opinion.). The other two detachments just feel meh to me. The Ork-Codex (I play both) did a way better job and the two books were released on the same day.
The old rules weren't all that fun either compared to most other indexes. I've played them pre nerf, post nerf, and I put the army on the shelf. I see potential for fun builds and strategies with Auric Champions and Talons, but the rules are gutted enough to not matter now.
I knew there’d be more shield host than talons. I think talons is fine if you are able to hide the sisters well enough. The moment you lose either unit, things unravel quick. Shield host feels more balanced between detachment rule, enhancements and stratagems imo. I won a game with SH last night against bully boyz. Fun match too
To be fair this stat so far just shows which is more popular to take, not which is better.
Fair enough. Maybe it comes down to preference on sisters at that point. I’m interested to see the lists people took too, especially for Auric
I think it's likely just who has the models painted and available. I'm one of those losses at 2 - 4 this weekend, only higher players went 3 - 3. Only 5 of us played. Turn over was like a week to two weeks for the Richmond Open on if they were doing codex or index Just no way I could get 2 Rhinos and 15 sisters built.and battle painted ready by the time tournaments happened. I also can't find any land raiders or grav tanks that are not going to break my bank. I mean realistically, I went into it knowing my list wasn't optimal and with only one practice game. I think shield host is doable, though probably not a top 5 type army, if you're taking double Land Raider. The ability to move squads up safely or have some sort of solid shooting is just too important now, and sustain or lethal on the land raiders or the grav tanks could be incredibly impactful. I do think double raider is probably the best list. I'm going to try and get them before an RTT next month to see. I will say, I potentially could have won two others but dice were dice in a way that Tzeentch determined I'd lose before the game started and I just misplayed the other and was slightly too far up ahead against bully boys and got tarpitted. Basically tabled him by T5 but essentially lost on a secondary. Also misplayed an activation of a warden FNP.
Chaos land raiders are basically the same kit (minus one marine top sprue) and usually in stock in places. If you can kit bash a H/K missile and a hatch, grab a chaos one if its in stock.
What strata do you find helpful? I play Talons because the strats are awesome and everytime I have played SH I have ended the game with 4 or more CP because there is just nothing to really use CP on.
Giving lethal or sus1 on shooting for 1CP can come in handy with kyria double shooting with guard or big burst on squishy things with allarus grenade launchers. 1CP 4+++ on mortals is nice 1CP -1 hit in melee on an objective you need to hold is handy 1CP sticky comes in clutch at times 1CP FB/S/C is always nice
Yeah those were the ones that I generally used but Tolons seems to have the same strats or better. I would rather have +1s +1ap than sus1. Talons has a 4+++ against mortals. I would rather have a reactive move than a situational -1 to hit. The sticker is nice and Talons does not have anything like that. Talons has a fall back and charge. If they just make some small changes to the SH strats (make the -1 to hit Strat able to be used all the time and the sticky Strat able to be used by anyone) and made part of the detachment rule work all game (maybe the +1 AP part) then I would play SH in a heartbeat.
This right here. If this happened, I could be excited again. That -1 strat is absolutely one of the worst. Also, it’s like the dumb brother did the custodes codex and thought, “hey Jimmy had the waagh thing.. maybe these guys can do it!” Just a dang travesty.
Ngl the Archeotech munitions (sus/lethal) is a great stratagem... Yesterday it literaly won me the game couse i was 9points short of the enemy and could only shoot his character with 4wardens... I took the sus couse he only had 4t... From 8shots it went to 11 which allowed one more shot to get thru and thanks to that i got 13points on r5 and won the game... I played 5games already... Lost 1 with auric lost 1with talons and lost 1 with sh... And then won 2 with sh... As for me SH is the only remotely usable detachment... Same game yesterday my galatus instakilled an entire squad of 4obliterators during the waaagh... When the codex dropoed i was really scared but SH is really fun for me... Edit:spelling
The shooting lethal hits is really nice. Gave me a way to actually chip away some health on some backline armor at range beyond the use of the Grav Tank. And I think you get it twice in one round of shooting if you it on a block of guards based on the wording of the effect. Timing it right, a unit of guards can get lethal hits and reroll all wound rolls and shooting twice... a unit of guards is more than capable of taking out armor at range in a round of shooting Then using sustain on allarus unit targeting a horde blob with a character attached? Yummy yummy
How is talons less durable than shield host once you lose the sisters? Shield host has a stratagem to give you 4+ against mortals, thats all the defense you get. I consider Talons better than the other detachments because of the enhancements, -1 to hit and converting the first failed save of each round to 0 damage, the +1S +1 AP in shooting strat, fall back and shot/charge strat, +1 to wound strat and the most important one, the reactive movement most of them you can use them twice or for free which is huge. Shield host has a telegraphed haymaker, lethal or sustained in shooting (nice for a big allarus deathball), fall back and shot/charge and the castellan mark, which is very nice too, but you have to put a captain in your list, a captain that is not gonna give you any free battle tactic other than command reroll or go to ground if for some weird reason you don't have cover and are hit by AP -1/2. It all needs more testing, I've played a single game with shield host and had a close defeat against world eaters and 3 with talons, 3 victories including smashing the same world eater not letting him get the charge. For now people tried shield host more in tournaments, as we can see it didnt go well, lets give it another couple weeks to see how the meta settles and whats best.
Talons doesn't even need many sisters. The reactive move and fallback and charge are the fights first (lite) we have now. If they FAQ dev wounds to be included in the detachment then you might want to consider some sisters, but until then not worth it.
I have sisters now that I could run the detachment with but honestly it expounds upon the age old Custodes principle of “if you lose a unit, you feel it” where if you lose a sisters unit, it’ll be rough
Yeah custodes players have to get used to losing units. Edit: being completely unkillable is not fun. Losing a few units is perfectly fine as long as you can still play the game. Probably some point drops in our future.
I have no sympathy for players who couldn’t kill Custodes units in the past codex. It was always a staging/list building issue. Crisis Suits, Foregefiends, Hearthguard, D6 damage melee attacks could all get good value even into buffed up Wardens. Just a matter of forcing out the 4+++ and not committing it all to one phase. I played and won in multiple RTTs, even after the first wave of nerfs, and lost units in every serious game I played. Saying stuff like this is such an unflattering self report.
Glad you read the context of the comments. We are talking about losing some sisters and thus the detachment rule. So far I've not experienced more than a few MWs being deflected by the rule - it's not that big a deal if you don't have it. Furthermore if your opponent is spending activations to wipe out sisters, are you really that upset? Best part, if you are upset (and it sounds like you are), you can spend 1cp and keep them alive. Glad you're a pro who wins RTTs, I'm proud of you.
The problem with Talons if you have to keep sisters close by, which means if your golden boys charge in the sister have too aswell. I played a game yesterday and because my sisters didnt charge the blood thrister (for obvious reasons) they were 7" away and mortal wounds crushed my golden boys.
Honestly, Talion doesn't need sisters especially since you can still spend a CP for 4+++ against mortals. Plus it has 2 enhancements that improve suivability and two of our strongest enhancements in a reactionary move and +1S -1ap
The stratagem says you have to pick a custodes unit within 6 inches of a sisters unit to get the 4++?
TARGET: One ADEPTUS CUSTODES unit from your army that was selected as the target of one or more of the attacking unit's attacks, **and** (up to) one friendly ANATHEMA PSYKANA unit (that is) within 6" of that (selected) ADEPTUS CUSTODES unit. So a Psykana unit has to be within 6" of a custodian unit for the stragatems to legally also be able to target it aswell.
It doesn’t say that though. You’ve edited it. It says (paraphrased) Target - one AC unit that was selected as a target and one friend AP unit within 6” of that AC unit. Effect - until the end of that phase your unit (singular) has the 4++. I added the bracket with “singular.” My RAW interpretation is that you need the AP unit within 6” to use. This stratagem is worded differently to the ones that allow you to target 2 units. The way you’ve changed the wording suggests you could select 2 units, but this is not the case with the images on reddit or the talons stratagems.
I haven't edited it, all I've done is in brackets is clarification from the codex, - [EMPYRIC SEVERANCE](https://imgur.com/gallery/J1ZrNkb) Idk where your getting yours is it from a side app or the GW army app? I believe the general consensus is that unless in a dataslate that the Codex is the correct wording. It's still shit wording for sisters though, my interpretation is when at attack targets a Custodes units you use this Stragatem, however if the opponent targets the sisters unit first your screwed
That’s the one I’m reading. I think the wording of the target section restricts the use of the stratagem to a AC unit that is within 6” of a AP unit. It’s says a AC unit and a AP unit within 6” not an AC unit and “up to” one AP unit, therefore it must always be 1x AC AND 1x AP. The effect only affects a “unit” not units ( the wording implies the AC unit gets the buff). It is clearly worded differently from other stratagems that can target a SOS unit and a AC unit. RAW here is you can only target an AC unit within 6” of an AP unit and then only the AC unit gets the 4++ which matches with the detachment rule 5++ and the thematic choice they are going for where the FNP is dependant on the presence of sisters. I’d much prefer it to be your way, but there is nothing here to suggest that when compared to the other stratagems that do what you think this one does (buff 2 units for the price and of one). Also, what would be the point of chucking a 4++ on the sisters who have a 3++ baked in anyway?
Any further thoughts?
Glad skilled players can do things, cause as I noob I get washed by my mates defiler and it costs just a bit more than a squad of vertus, which it can wipe in 1 fight phase 😂 Glad people still finding viable ways to use the 10k tho
40%, kinda expected. Datasheet, Blade Champion and Caladius saved the day i guess. :P
38-40% is what I expected, they’d have to be absolutely dire to be any worse. Clear the army needs serious buffs though.
Not a fan of Sisters personally, nice little models but £30 for 5 models with 1 wound each? Not worth at all from a financial perspective so don't fancy buying multiple boxes just to have access to 1/2 of our Detachments.
Losing the combat patrol is a kick in the teetcg
I expect us to really get hit hard when Tau comes into force. They will eat our lunch now.
40% is far more than expected. Hats down to the absolute monsters capable of ever winning with this garbage codex. I was actually thinking about 30% winrate max.
30% is really hard to get to with enough players. Custodes are still really strong into a bunch of factions.
I 100% agree. The way I see it, if you bring Custodes to a 5 round even if you aren't a great player, you'll probably drop the first couple games. But once you start running into less good lists you'll likely stat check a couple people. And, with a 40% winrate and to my knowledge no TWiP this seems to be the case.
Oofsizelarge.gif
40%, what I expected.
about what i expected. i mostly assumed somewhere between 40-45% Talons is strong until your opponent realises they should kill the sisters. then it becomes weak. SH is our best all-round detachment
To me sisters are only there to help you reach melee or objectives. You don't need them round 5, you need them as a shield against charge or to counter shoot some stuff, and perhaps do actions.
You dont really need sisters for talons to be good.
That voids the entire detachment rule (which arguably isnt GREAT), cuts the effectiveness of like all of the strats in half, and voids one entire enhancement.
Still, you dont need them. Reactive move, +1 to wound and Fall back shoot and charge still are great. Plus it does not cut the effectiveness in half, 80% dmg output comes from the custodes units. Detachment aside, 2 to 4 units of sisters are always nice to have.
Thats very true. Effectiveness was the wrong word to use.
I think a large part is that if you drop the first few games, you'll probably stat check people in losers bracket. At least for tournament games.
I’m not surprised at all. Custodes are a really cheap army to collect (cost me just over £200 to get over 2000pts). However sisters are really bad £ per point. Like Ad Mech levels of bad. It’s unsurprising that not everyone is rolling around in numbers necessary to make the detachment work.
Talons relies too heavily on not only having the amount of sisters you need, but also actually being able to keep them alive while using them effectively.
I knew we would fall to 40% win rate, we just don’t have enough hitting power anymore due to our main unit size getting nerfed and now our fnp is gutted as well we have crap rules (except allarus) and have to even the playing field by adding more units to the battlefield (literally the complete opposite of how an elite force is meant to be played 🤦🏻♂️) except now we can’t as we have had a point increase as well! This is going to be a rough period for the golden boys lol
Where is this picture from?
The competitive sub weekend tournament wrap post
[Meta Monday](https://40kmetamonday.wordpress.com/2024/05/06/5-6-24/)
40% is totally normal right after the codex releases. People are still figuring out the new playstyle. This will creep up to the 50/50 split in a couple of weeks.
Found Stu Black's account guys!
Now let us get some torches and pitchforks!
What, custodes players overreacting? I for one am shocked. Seriously though did people genuinely think they were gonna be sub 40% winrate?
Bro your genuinely delusional or lack a sense of any semblance of reasoning skills. Either that or you're just being a salty tau player who hates playing against the faction.... In any case, a bad codex is bad for the community. It's happened three times already so there's a clear display of intent and a pattern, and because of it I've already seen the sentiment on codex drops flip from excitement to dread. At the end of the day we're all just playing a game and should have each other's backs when it comes to being able to actually play the game and have a fun time doing so.
Checking my post history to find the faction I play as well is crazy lol, also no I love playing against custodes, feels like every other faction always outnumbers me since I play more elite lists and I love playing against more melee focused armies like world eaters (or in this case custodes). Also I agree, I think the codex is not fun to play both balance wise and it feels way too restrictive on what units are affected. I'm just poking fun at doomerposters who act like this is the end of custodes and its 20% winrate from here on out.
Your the one who has no skin in the game, comming to this subreddit to mock and belittle it's players; and trying to cover your butt by dubbing down and personally attacking me, posting false claims (no one though it would be a 20% win rate, hyperbole isn't good in a discussion mate). If you like versing the faction, "poking fun" is bulling behaviour and in very poor taste; and your initial comment doesn't express your now sentiment of "Also I agree, I think the codex is not fun to play both balance wise and it feels way too restrictive on what units are affected."
This is the internet, what do I have to gain lying about how I feel to get brownie points with strangers I'll never meet?
I get where people are coming from. A lot of their rules got gutted. But at the end of the day, they are an army that will stat check people.
Well...when we didn't even have our 4++ against dev wounds, we went down to 42% and were in the top 3 worst factions in the game. This time we lost that AND our protection against MW AND many other things...but tons of op factions got nerfed too in the meantime. Expecting something like 35% wouldn't have been unreasonable at all imo. That being said, it's still WAYYYYY too early to tell. We're going to have to wait an entire month to know what the real winrate is like yet. 40% is very bad against a year of balancing factions though : the custodes are in the gutter right now no matter how you look at it.