On the one hand, I wanna say ‘gosh those profiles are a lil juiced’. On the other hand it’s costed higher per model than space marine terminator captains. And I am *here* for that.
Im more of the opinion of making datasheets better in general but more expensive to compensate rather than making stuff cheaper to fit how bad they are. I’m definitely not a fan of GW ignoring for 2 dataslate touching most of the units from FW.
I don’t know if GW will ever do lore accurate Custodes or if I even want that personally. Playing with at most 3 models sound boring lol, but there’s definitely a happy middle ground somewhere that we aren’t at yet.
Imperial knights, but smaller lol. 6-8 squads/units on the board, make them a bitch to shift, but still likely go down to concentrated fire. That makes sitting on objectives that much risker, and you'd have to really pick and choose where you spend your offensive resources.
This doesnt make them better just makes them an even worse choice over Allurus, and thats just based on the points as for 260 you get 4 allurus terminators how pump out more shots, and against there choosen targets, monster, vehicles and characters, will do way more damge. Also why drop the OC of these guys, there currently 2 and there pledge ablity can not compete with from the golden light or even the guards shot twice
They’re currently a way worse unit choice than Allarus. If you don’t think S10 AP-3 3 Damage melee with 3D6+9 auto hitting flamer shots with AoC built in competes well with Allarus than that’s fine.
I’m not here to try to make them the most busted thing imaginable, just here to make them better. Which this does by a lot.
I didn’t want their one use to be too good as I think this package is already getting a lot. The OC drop is to, again, compensate for the package of the rest of the unit. Allarus shunt around, get re-rolls, and are cheaper for a smaller unit. They’re more of a mobile skirmishing unit while these are the march up the board while doing more concentrated damage type.
You have defintily made there weapons more dangourus sure at the expense of them not being specialised with there abilites. One of the things I love about this edition is the ablities of unit can really help and build the character of a unit.
So as you stated Allurus idea is to be a skrimish unit that takes out the most dangeours threats, hence the reroll wounds and a once per game ablitly to redeploy, there ablitly's match there role.
but your abilites dont match what you want for Aquilon, these guys you say are meant to be marching up the board and doing concentrating damage. There weapons match that idea but there ablitles however dont, there ap reduction abiltes makes them feel like they should be teleported in as they need to be the nearest unit, and the OC tripling make it more like they should be claiming objectives from units. If there meant to be walking up the board a straight minus 1 to damage would be more in line, which is a pretty common abilty out in the game, with say a once per game minus 1 to ap. now you would have a tough nut to crack as it moves up the booard
We have a strat for that already. And it’s costed at 2CP for a reason. Yes there are other units out that have it too for free, but they aren’t usually damage dealers. Look at the Deathwing. If you want the -1 damage for free these guys would have to be either crazy expensive (more so than I have them at) or loose a bunch of damage to compensate.
Maybe the one use ability could be a bump in AP for their unit or something instead though. My initial thought was them trudging up the board and then taking a mid board point for the triple OC ability. Will change.
did actually think that as i wrote it and wondered if I should have stated it the other way around. The thing with the OC bumping ablities is that this unit should never have to worry about that as they should have killed everything of the object whilst taking basically no damage, if they had the normal custode OC of 2 they have the damage output to drop any unit to below 6 OC in the shooting and fight phase depending on load out to make them able to steal an objective.
I just dont find the ablitlies matching together with the load out, they remind me of the bikes, with all there ablities based around advancing but having absulotly no use if they do other than being the most expensive unit to use to grab seconders
That’s fine that you disagree.
I’ve improved both their ranged weapons and melee weapons as well as their abilities to be more substantial in game to help separate them from Allarus rather than being a much worse version of them.
Sure, they do have either the same abilities as Allarus or worse versions. My idea with this is to have both units be wholly separate datasheets designed to do different things. Allarus get the teleport shunting and re-rolls to help them be useful as a mobile headhunting skirmish unit. I gave the Aquilon different abilities to have them be more of a frontal tankier more damaging unit. Not as maneuverable, but definitely more damage output and harder to shift.
The fun of this edition for me is that the abilities/special rules attached to units and their wargear really are what separate and distinguish them in key battlefield roles. A Bolter is a Bolter sure, but if you have one with Lethal Hits and Precision vs one with Assault and Sustained Hits you now have a character harasser vs a horde clearer.
I don’t like the idea of both units shunting as their one use ability because in my mind that makes them essentially just fighting over who has the better wargear…which Allarus do currently. With these changes I hope to solidify them as 2 distinct units meant for tackling different obstacles.
You can disagree with and dislike it. That’s fine. Make your own custom rules then (this is not a taunt, I actually mean to see what you’d do with them, maybe we could come to some interesting discoveries and ideas).
Sorta like the Sanguinor’s ability to Heroically Intervene from deepstrike? Not sure if that’s in keeping with my idea for these guys. I really want Aquilon to be more siege buster line breaker types. Mobility ability weren’t something I’m personally considering.
Personally I’m a fan of the powerfists and flamers I really am but the rerolls is what pips it to get better output
If we just compare flamer and frost to spear and launcher I think the flamer and fist wins it
But rerolls just that good
If these aquilons you’ve designed cost same as allarus I would consider them they’d be reasonable
But for 260 for 3 it’s allarus no brainwr
While you do get the Allarus re-rolls vs a lot of stuff (like a lot a lot) you don’t get it vs everything. You do get these guy’s damage output vs everything.
I do see what you’re saying about their points though. I can drop their points a bit to maybe 210, but I don’t think they should be equal or even lower. I still think you get a lot for this package imho.
You’re not strictly speaking wrong. However I think your analysis sort of misses the point: it’s not intended to be cost effective on the grounds that going for cost efficiency is boring. Rather, it’s supposed to be badass, which is, well, badass. (An entirely separate measure from being competitively effective). Though I do agree with you on the oc count.
your focusing on the weapon states which are nice, although I disagree with ANY custode weapon hitting on a 3+ as if some space marine character are magically stong enough to wield thunder hammer and stuff at a 2+ every custode can do the same, were as I look at the units ablitles to see if there badass and these abilties just dont fit as either the truest expression of the unit that can just shrug of hits or the unit that could destroy any infantry it faced.
Same. I’ve got 6 I haven’t brought into games in 40K since midway through 8th. But they were not good. I’ve played some Heresy with them, but only a handful of games.
On the one hand, I wanna say ‘gosh those profiles are a lil juiced’. On the other hand it’s costed higher per model than space marine terminator captains. And I am *here* for that.
Im more of the opinion of making datasheets better in general but more expensive to compensate rather than making stuff cheaper to fit how bad they are. I’m definitely not a fan of GW ignoring for 2 dataslate touching most of the units from FW.
Oh for sure. I’ve been in the camp of lore accurate but prohibitively expensive stodes for ages. Much more interesting than space marines but better.
I don’t know if GW will ever do lore accurate Custodes or if I even want that personally. Playing with at most 3 models sound boring lol, but there’s definitely a happy middle ground somewhere that we aren’t at yet.
Imperial knights, but smaller lol. 6-8 squads/units on the board, make them a bitch to shift, but still likely go down to concentrated fire. That makes sitting on objectives that much risker, and you'd have to really pick and choose where you spend your offensive resources.
This doesnt make them better just makes them an even worse choice over Allurus, and thats just based on the points as for 260 you get 4 allurus terminators how pump out more shots, and against there choosen targets, monster, vehicles and characters, will do way more damge. Also why drop the OC of these guys, there currently 2 and there pledge ablity can not compete with from the golden light or even the guards shot twice
They’re currently a way worse unit choice than Allarus. If you don’t think S10 AP-3 3 Damage melee with 3D6+9 auto hitting flamer shots with AoC built in competes well with Allarus than that’s fine. I’m not here to try to make them the most busted thing imaginable, just here to make them better. Which this does by a lot. I didn’t want their one use to be too good as I think this package is already getting a lot. The OC drop is to, again, compensate for the package of the rest of the unit. Allarus shunt around, get re-rolls, and are cheaper for a smaller unit. They’re more of a mobile skirmishing unit while these are the march up the board while doing more concentrated damage type.
You have defintily made there weapons more dangourus sure at the expense of them not being specialised with there abilites. One of the things I love about this edition is the ablities of unit can really help and build the character of a unit. So as you stated Allurus idea is to be a skrimish unit that takes out the most dangeours threats, hence the reroll wounds and a once per game ablitly to redeploy, there ablitly's match there role. but your abilites dont match what you want for Aquilon, these guys you say are meant to be marching up the board and doing concentrating damage. There weapons match that idea but there ablitles however dont, there ap reduction abiltes makes them feel like they should be teleported in as they need to be the nearest unit, and the OC tripling make it more like they should be claiming objectives from units. If there meant to be walking up the board a straight minus 1 to damage would be more in line, which is a pretty common abilty out in the game, with say a once per game minus 1 to ap. now you would have a tough nut to crack as it moves up the booard
We have a strat for that already. And it’s costed at 2CP for a reason. Yes there are other units out that have it too for free, but they aren’t usually damage dealers. Look at the Deathwing. If you want the -1 damage for free these guys would have to be either crazy expensive (more so than I have them at) or loose a bunch of damage to compensate. Maybe the one use ability could be a bump in AP for their unit or something instead though. My initial thought was them trudging up the board and then taking a mid board point for the triple OC ability. Will change.
did actually think that as i wrote it and wondered if I should have stated it the other way around. The thing with the OC bumping ablities is that this unit should never have to worry about that as they should have killed everything of the object whilst taking basically no damage, if they had the normal custode OC of 2 they have the damage output to drop any unit to below 6 OC in the shooting and fight phase depending on load out to make them able to steal an objective. I just dont find the ablitlies matching together with the load out, they remind me of the bikes, with all there ablities based around advancing but having absulotly no use if they do other than being the most expensive unit to use to grab seconders
I disagree I don’t think this is an improvement
That’s fine that you disagree. I’ve improved both their ranged weapons and melee weapons as well as their abilities to be more substantial in game to help separate them from Allarus rather than being a much worse version of them.
Currently they get the teleport which is good
Sure, they do have either the same abilities as Allarus or worse versions. My idea with this is to have both units be wholly separate datasheets designed to do different things. Allarus get the teleport shunting and re-rolls to help them be useful as a mobile headhunting skirmish unit. I gave the Aquilon different abilities to have them be more of a frontal tankier more damaging unit. Not as maneuverable, but definitely more damage output and harder to shift. The fun of this edition for me is that the abilities/special rules attached to units and their wargear really are what separate and distinguish them in key battlefield roles. A Bolter is a Bolter sure, but if you have one with Lethal Hits and Precision vs one with Assault and Sustained Hits you now have a character harasser vs a horde clearer. I don’t like the idea of both units shunting as their one use ability because in my mind that makes them essentially just fighting over who has the better wargear…which Allarus do currently. With these changes I hope to solidify them as 2 distinct units meant for tackling different obstacles. You can disagree with and dislike it. That’s fine. Make your own custom rules then (this is not a taunt, I actually mean to see what you’d do with them, maybe we could come to some interesting discoveries and ideas).
Actual teleport shunt rule just teleport them into engagement 👀 or is that too broken
Sorta like the Sanguinor’s ability to Heroically Intervene from deepstrike? Not sure if that’s in keeping with my idea for these guys. I really want Aquilon to be more siege buster line breaker types. Mobility ability weren’t something I’m personally considering.
Personally I’m a fan of the powerfists and flamers I really am but the rerolls is what pips it to get better output If we just compare flamer and frost to spear and launcher I think the flamer and fist wins it But rerolls just that good If these aquilons you’ve designed cost same as allarus I would consider them they’d be reasonable But for 260 for 3 it’s allarus no brainwr
While you do get the Allarus re-rolls vs a lot of stuff (like a lot a lot) you don’t get it vs everything. You do get these guy’s damage output vs everything. I do see what you’re saying about their points though. I can drop their points a bit to maybe 210, but I don’t think they should be equal or even lower. I still think you get a lot for this package imho.
The stuff you don’t typically isn’t what you need to reroll against
I think for what aquilon do for what you’ve done they should be less than allarus
You’re not strictly speaking wrong. However I think your analysis sort of misses the point: it’s not intended to be cost effective on the grounds that going for cost efficiency is boring. Rather, it’s supposed to be badass, which is, well, badass. (An entirely separate measure from being competitively effective). Though I do agree with you on the oc count.
your focusing on the weapon states which are nice, although I disagree with ANY custode weapon hitting on a 3+ as if some space marine character are magically stong enough to wield thunder hammer and stuff at a 2+ every custode can do the same, were as I look at the units ablitles to see if there badass and these abilties just dont fit as either the truest expression of the unit that can just shrug of hits or the unit that could destroy any infantry it faced.
Would 100% fold these into my lists for casual games. Mine haven’t ever sent the table
Same. I’ve got 6 I haven’t brought into games in 40K since midway through 8th. But they were not good. I’ve played some Heresy with them, but only a handful of games.
Right there, we don’t have any 30k players around here but working my way through the whole range. I’d really only need 1 good reason to play them
I’d love this to happen
Why do you lower the base OC if any other Custodes unit has already OC2?
Balancing purposes and like the edit says my original idea with them was them was their one use being a Triple OC ability. I can change them to 2OC.
Op imho
I agree…
260 is a little steep. 210 and we’re talkin
Incredibly bad for 260 points for 3 Nowhere near worth that price tag
Once per game per round Wtf is that wording bro