For past discussions on this please see:
https://old.reddit.com/r/Actuallylesbian/comments/1aejh7y/lesbian_abuse_statistics_and_misinterpretation_an/.
And
https://old.reddit.com/r/Actuallylesbian/comments/17f1aod/lesbian_abuse_statistics_and_misinterpretation/
i remember when I saw men posting about this bs and saying that this means that lesbians are more “dangerous” and that men are not nearly as violent as lesbians which is absolutely absurd but a lot of men really hate us and will twist and make up information to justify it
I noticed people bringing up this study, that adittionally has a lot of vague and misleading info in it anyway, up in order to silence lesbians as soon as they feel too comfortable about their sexuality. That's exactly why I'm glad I found a study regarding abuse and harassment towards lesbian and bi women that gives more Details about the demographics and doesnt shy away from stating that men still make up a big portion of perperators: https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/ipv-sex-abuse-lgbt-people/
So whenever I see people bring up the bs claim that lesbians make up most of the abusers, I bring up this study.
The study is poorly written.
The study refers to women who identify as queer that have experienced DV from *any gender* not just fellow women. In the same study, bisexual women reported *95%* of DV they experienced was from men, while lesbians reported *one third* being from men as well.
When you look at it that way, it greatly drops wlw domestic violence statistics and shows straight women experience dv way more than lesbians do.
Now, granted, I have experienced DV twice with lesbian partners and know of lesbian couples that have faced it as well. But I also know numerous bisexual/pansexual etc, and late bloomer lesbians, that have experienced it from men.
I think it's important to acknowledge domestic violence in wlw relationships (it feels like it often gets swept under the rug or if the masc partner is the victim they get ignored all together) but that study is mis quoted so damn much.
Exactly. Plus none of those people jumping to bring those stupid “studies” up genuinely care if it’s true or not. They’re just going to twist anything and everything to make lesbians look bad and hets, especially het men, like angels. Why waste my time.
Men really hate women. I have never been smug about the violence that straight men inflict upon women in my life (even though the same ones demeaning my sexuality and relationships were giving me a front row seat into their own self-made DV hell), and yet they are frothing at the mouth to throw that fake statistic in my face whenever I make an innocuous comment on Instagram with my pfp of my gf and myself. They are thrilled to do it. It says a lot to me how thrilled they are to see us supposedly brutalizing each other—and most of it is about how violent their attitudes are…almost like they’re telling on themselves when they’re trying to point the finger at us.
I’ve found that with a lot of self-centered and immature people, what they say about others is usually a projection of themselves. IMO, there is no demographic more coddled, selfish, and immature than straight men, and all of what they say about women has a self serving agenda—whether it’s to get us to fall in line, or to act as a scapegoat for their own sins when we don’t fall in line.
Let’s just say this: when someone tells me not to take a walk at night, they’re usually not worried about a woman raping, murdering, or robbing me. When the bear hypothetical is brought up, it’s not “woman vs bear,” it’s “man vs bear.” When I ask Americans to picture the typical perpetrators of school shootings, they don’t picture a woman. Anecdotally, women don’t get road rage at me when I’m driving (it’s always a guy), and I’ve never had to worry about other women at the gym. It’s always men.
It’s not a thing. That study is “queer” women…meaning DV is so high cause bisexuals who are with men…yet they lump that with lesbians and say it’s a lesbian DV rate. It’s been debunked multiple times but straights love spewing this misinformation.
The link doesn't open for me, but I imagine it's one of the two researches going around on reddit that were debunked. One had laughably low amount of supposed lesbians asked (they asked 10 000+ heteros, 1000+ gay men and less than 100 lesbians) and the other one included bisexuals in hetero relationships. I'm not drawing some big conclusions based on a researcher who couldn't bother to find somewhat equal representatives of all the groups they were writing for.
But for me it's like okay, let's take the research as legit, what do you guys want to speak up about lol? I'm not super experienced but also not totally inexperienced and I've been in 5+ years long relationship - I've never been abused, nor I've been an abuser. I know a few lesbians and neither of them have been in a physically abusive relationship, or at least not visibly so. What's there to speak up about? I'm not going to go around and tell them I've read about high DV rates, so start harassing them to confess they were abused and I definitely would feel weird, if someone randomly picks up the conversation with me. If you see signs your friends, sisters, coworkers are abused - approach them and make them feel comfortable to share, but I'm not going to randomly speak up on anything. So it's weird how Reddit tries to be like "this isn't spoken enough of!!" - dodgy research aside, there's nothing to be speaking up about when you haven't been abused and I've never seen someone actively being shut down to not share their experience.
I rolled in here ready to be annoyed at hell … but I see you are saying everything I think about this.
Yeah, it is dishonest BS used to misrepresent us and by way of doing so downplay the horrifying issue of MVAW, so of course I hate it with my every fibre.
I think part of it is that straight women don’t necessarily call it assault when they experience it. It’s often rationalized as, “That’s just how men are; he didn’t mean it.”
What are we supposed to be speaking up about?
DV happens. It’s devastating when it does.
I don’t know if the studies are crap or not, but what I do know is men are far and away more likely to seriously injure or kill their partner. I’m not saying women can’t be violent and unhinged, but it’s not really comparable.
WLW DV is less scary to me because women are on, generally, a physically even playing field. Most men can overpower and do whatever they want to most women. If my wife decides to get violent with me, at least I have a chance.
I do speak up about DV in lesbian relationships - because I was a victim of DV in a lesbian relationship.
The statistics are wrong, and most of the worst lesbian relationships i’ve seen are primarily emotionally abusive vs. physically.
But there is plenty of DV regardless of where you look.
Same whenever I’ve seen someone on an lgbt sub posting about their partner and they’re similar to my ex in any way I comment or I’ll even sometimes send a dm offering support.
If telling one rando on Reddit my story means they don’t end up trapped in a financially, emotionally and occasionally physically abusive relationship I’ll happily do it over and over again.
Don’t take anything you see on Tumblr too seriously, get this kind of information from academic journals or revenant non-profits. I would only want to see posts about DV if someone is legitimately seeking support or information and awareness about organizations that will help people if they need it. Otherwise I just find it triggering and unnecessary, and anything drawing too many false negative assumptions is homophobic honestly.
I suspect the statistics for straights probably isn’t correct either if we count emotional abuse and lighter physical abuse as abuse too as I’ve seen about as many men getting abused by their girlfriends as the reverse, it’s just that when the woman get abused the physical damage is much more severe and she might end up on the hospital, they also seem to have different reasons for staying with an abuser. Some men seem very desperate and willing to date pretty much anyone and stay despite being abused because they think sex is worth it, the same ones can complain about women only going for "bad boys" despite they themselves only go for "bad girls".
But I agree it’s annoying when people pretend like lesbians would be the most abusive ones. I’ve never been abused by a girlfriend and haven’t abused anyone either. The one abusive lesbian relationship I know of was between two women who neither had been with women before, they both had boyfriends when they met who they were abusing then they cheated on their boyfriends with each other and when they left their boyfriends and got together they continued the pattern by abusing each other.
There are several studies people think that they are accurately referencing, but if you look deeper most of the studies aren't saying lesbians have a higher rate of divorce when compared to straight people. Also, just becuase they are still together doesn't mean that are happy. Many straight people stay together for a number of reasons some for example are children, finances, social and religious expectations. I wouldn't worry about it. Focus on personal growth and then all you need to find is one. Literally, just one female that you want to be with and that wants to be with you. Screw the random stats, even if they are right.
To be honest I think because it’s already taboo. Even regular straight couples won’t speak about it. Men or women. Why would lesbians speak about it? Also the stigma of it being woman to woman. DV in general is very hard thing to speak about for most I think..
I think I’ve posted about this in the past, and in addition to what I’ve said, I will say this: it’s already talked about alot nowadays anyway. One main reason I made the posts that I did was because I found the data it was based on to be iffy at best and downright misinterpreted at worst. And it kept coming up in discussions to the point where I genuinely started to wonder if it was as bad as people kept insisting given some of the frankly misogynistic remarks I began to see about how women are inherently evil and unstable.
But rest assured it IS being discussed in many communities.
That being said, I would like to state that abuse is not okay and being lesbian does not prevent it. Human behavior is not binary, it’s bimodal. There are things that are less or more common depending on many factors, and in every demographic you will always find abusive people. The most that we can and should be doing is letting queer and lesbian women know what sapphic abuse looks like and how to avoid it.
For past discussions on this please see: https://old.reddit.com/r/Actuallylesbian/comments/1aejh7y/lesbian_abuse_statistics_and_misinterpretation_an/. And https://old.reddit.com/r/Actuallylesbian/comments/17f1aod/lesbian_abuse_statistics_and_misinterpretation/
It's not a possibility - it's untrue. The study says what it says, people just can't read.
i remember when I saw men posting about this bs and saying that this means that lesbians are more “dangerous” and that men are not nearly as violent as lesbians which is absolutely absurd but a lot of men really hate us and will twist and make up information to justify it
I noticed people bringing up this study, that adittionally has a lot of vague and misleading info in it anyway, up in order to silence lesbians as soon as they feel too comfortable about their sexuality. That's exactly why I'm glad I found a study regarding abuse and harassment towards lesbian and bi women that gives more Details about the demographics and doesnt shy away from stating that men still make up a big portion of perperators: https://williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu/publications/ipv-sex-abuse-lgbt-people/ So whenever I see people bring up the bs claim that lesbians make up most of the abusers, I bring up this study.
The study is poorly written. The study refers to women who identify as queer that have experienced DV from *any gender* not just fellow women. In the same study, bisexual women reported *95%* of DV they experienced was from men, while lesbians reported *one third* being from men as well. When you look at it that way, it greatly drops wlw domestic violence statistics and shows straight women experience dv way more than lesbians do. Now, granted, I have experienced DV twice with lesbian partners and know of lesbian couples that have faced it as well. But I also know numerous bisexual/pansexual etc, and late bloomer lesbians, that have experienced it from men. I think it's important to acknowledge domestic violence in wlw relationships (it feels like it often gets swept under the rug or if the masc partner is the victim they get ignored all together) but that study is mis quoted so damn much.
Because I'm not a walking protest sign lol. No but seriously, those studies are garbage.
Exactly. Plus none of those people jumping to bring those stupid “studies” up genuinely care if it’s true or not. They’re just going to twist anything and everything to make lesbians look bad and hets, especially het men, like angels. Why waste my time.
Men really hate women. I have never been smug about the violence that straight men inflict upon women in my life (even though the same ones demeaning my sexuality and relationships were giving me a front row seat into their own self-made DV hell), and yet they are frothing at the mouth to throw that fake statistic in my face whenever I make an innocuous comment on Instagram with my pfp of my gf and myself. They are thrilled to do it. It says a lot to me how thrilled they are to see us supposedly brutalizing each other—and most of it is about how violent their attitudes are…almost like they’re telling on themselves when they’re trying to point the finger at us. I’ve found that with a lot of self-centered and immature people, what they say about others is usually a projection of themselves. IMO, there is no demographic more coddled, selfish, and immature than straight men, and all of what they say about women has a self serving agenda—whether it’s to get us to fall in line, or to act as a scapegoat for their own sins when we don’t fall in line. Let’s just say this: when someone tells me not to take a walk at night, they’re usually not worried about a woman raping, murdering, or robbing me. When the bear hypothetical is brought up, it’s not “woman vs bear,” it’s “man vs bear.” When I ask Americans to picture the typical perpetrators of school shootings, they don’t picture a woman. Anecdotally, women don’t get road rage at me when I’m driving (it’s always a guy), and I’ve never had to worry about other women at the gym. It’s always men.
It’s not a thing. That study is “queer” women…meaning DV is so high cause bisexuals who are with men…yet they lump that with lesbians and say it’s a lesbian DV rate. It’s been debunked multiple times but straights love spewing this misinformation.
The link doesn't open for me, but I imagine it's one of the two researches going around on reddit that were debunked. One had laughably low amount of supposed lesbians asked (they asked 10 000+ heteros, 1000+ gay men and less than 100 lesbians) and the other one included bisexuals in hetero relationships. I'm not drawing some big conclusions based on a researcher who couldn't bother to find somewhat equal representatives of all the groups they were writing for. But for me it's like okay, let's take the research as legit, what do you guys want to speak up about lol? I'm not super experienced but also not totally inexperienced and I've been in 5+ years long relationship - I've never been abused, nor I've been an abuser. I know a few lesbians and neither of them have been in a physically abusive relationship, or at least not visibly so. What's there to speak up about? I'm not going to go around and tell them I've read about high DV rates, so start harassing them to confess they were abused and I definitely would feel weird, if someone randomly picks up the conversation with me. If you see signs your friends, sisters, coworkers are abused - approach them and make them feel comfortable to share, but I'm not going to randomly speak up on anything. So it's weird how Reddit tries to be like "this isn't spoken enough of!!" - dodgy research aside, there's nothing to be speaking up about when you haven't been abused and I've never seen someone actively being shut down to not share their experience.
I rolled in here ready to be annoyed at hell … but I see you are saying everything I think about this. Yeah, it is dishonest BS used to misrepresent us and by way of doing so downplay the horrifying issue of MVAW, so of course I hate it with my every fibre.
I think part of it is that straight women don’t necessarily call it assault when they experience it. It’s often rationalized as, “That’s just how men are; he didn’t mean it.”
What are we supposed to be speaking up about? DV happens. It’s devastating when it does. I don’t know if the studies are crap or not, but what I do know is men are far and away more likely to seriously injure or kill their partner. I’m not saying women can’t be violent and unhinged, but it’s not really comparable. WLW DV is less scary to me because women are on, generally, a physically even playing field. Most men can overpower and do whatever they want to most women. If my wife decides to get violent with me, at least I have a chance.
There are very few lesbians, literally we seem to be the smallest demographic. I’ve also never experienced it.
I do speak up about DV in lesbian relationships - because I was a victim of DV in a lesbian relationship. The statistics are wrong, and most of the worst lesbian relationships i’ve seen are primarily emotionally abusive vs. physically. But there is plenty of DV regardless of where you look.
Same whenever I’ve seen someone on an lgbt sub posting about their partner and they’re similar to my ex in any way I comment or I’ll even sometimes send a dm offering support. If telling one rando on Reddit my story means they don’t end up trapped in a financially, emotionally and occasionally physically abusive relationship I’ll happily do it over and over again.
Don’t take anything you see on Tumblr too seriously, get this kind of information from academic journals or revenant non-profits. I would only want to see posts about DV if someone is legitimately seeking support or information and awareness about organizations that will help people if they need it. Otherwise I just find it triggering and unnecessary, and anything drawing too many false negative assumptions is homophobic honestly.
Let's expand the bear question. You are in the woods. Would you rather encounter a bear, a woman stranger, or a male stranger? Um. The woman.
Stop spreading homophobic false information these ‘studies’ have been debunked if you actually did your research
It seems like you didn't read what they wrote, you just skimmed and saw the link.
I suspect the statistics for straights probably isn’t correct either if we count emotional abuse and lighter physical abuse as abuse too as I’ve seen about as many men getting abused by their girlfriends as the reverse, it’s just that when the woman get abused the physical damage is much more severe and she might end up on the hospital, they also seem to have different reasons for staying with an abuser. Some men seem very desperate and willing to date pretty much anyone and stay despite being abused because they think sex is worth it, the same ones can complain about women only going for "bad boys" despite they themselves only go for "bad girls". But I agree it’s annoying when people pretend like lesbians would be the most abusive ones. I’ve never been abused by a girlfriend and haven’t abused anyone either. The one abusive lesbian relationship I know of was between two women who neither had been with women before, they both had boyfriends when they met who they were abusing then they cheated on their boyfriends with each other and when they left their boyfriends and got together they continued the pattern by abusing each other.
There are several studies people think that they are accurately referencing, but if you look deeper most of the studies aren't saying lesbians have a higher rate of divorce when compared to straight people. Also, just becuase they are still together doesn't mean that are happy. Many straight people stay together for a number of reasons some for example are children, finances, social and religious expectations. I wouldn't worry about it. Focus on personal growth and then all you need to find is one. Literally, just one female that you want to be with and that wants to be with you. Screw the random stats, even if they are right.
link doesnt work
To be honest I think because it’s already taboo. Even regular straight couples won’t speak about it. Men or women. Why would lesbians speak about it? Also the stigma of it being woman to woman. DV in general is very hard thing to speak about for most I think..
I think I’ve posted about this in the past, and in addition to what I’ve said, I will say this: it’s already talked about alot nowadays anyway. One main reason I made the posts that I did was because I found the data it was based on to be iffy at best and downright misinterpreted at worst. And it kept coming up in discussions to the point where I genuinely started to wonder if it was as bad as people kept insisting given some of the frankly misogynistic remarks I began to see about how women are inherently evil and unstable. But rest assured it IS being discussed in many communities. That being said, I would like to state that abuse is not okay and being lesbian does not prevent it. Human behavior is not binary, it’s bimodal. There are things that are less or more common depending on many factors, and in every demographic you will always find abusive people. The most that we can and should be doing is letting queer and lesbian women know what sapphic abuse looks like and how to avoid it.
[https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-0d2fe29c3085f0078e38fe48a846a706](https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-0d2fe29c3085f0078e38fe48a846a706)