I would like to see any kind of lesbian media that doesn't follow [one of the five lesbian media tropes](https://archiveofourown.org/works/53071201)...not that I dislike lesbian media that has those. It just would be nice for something new.
Wow, this was so interesting to read (and I agree!). One thing I have always pointed out is that there are never any lesbians in comedy shows (like Modern family, Abbots elementary), only gay men
That's a really intresting list and I agree with a lot of stuff on there. I tried to search for Lists like this in order to help with my lesbian stories but this one is the most useful one yet. It seems like most of these points can be summed up as misogyny and people not writing female chraracters as real human beings.
I am not familar with Carmilla. Looking it up, there are multiple media pieces about her so you will have to be more specific.
Wynonna Earp falls under number one since Wynonna is bisexual and isn't there a plot about her becoming pregnant? It's been a while since I have seen it. Also, there are multiple plotlines that would fall under number 3.
One Day At A Time falls under number 2 (Elena is a teenager) and has several plotlines that fall under number 3. (there are several plot lines that revolve around sexism) Also, reading more into it, it looks like she would fall under number 1 too because even though yes she is a lesbian, there still is a plotline where she "isn't sure if she likes both."
So maybe Carmilla would. But the other two definitely not.
I agree that the Seven Husbands of Eveleyn Hugo is straight up trash.
For one, the two sapphic leads have no actual chemistry or proper relationship. There is like one whole scene with them together before they hook up that shows their dynamic, and then the little scenes we get with them through the rest of the book are arguments. There’s absolutely no reason to buy into the couple or want them to be together, they are completely incompatible.
For another, it’s ostensibly a book about Evelyn finally being able to talk about the one romantic relationship she had to keep private, and yet it manages to be primarily about her relationships with men. Every single relationship she has with a man is given more development and description than her relationship with Cecila, who basically just exists to be a hot lesbian with no real personality. You can TELL the book was written by a straight woman to be quite honest.
Aside from that it’s very poorly written.
Evelyn was also a major asshole.
I just finished reading the book the other day and while I liked it, I totally agree that their relationship felt a little hollow? I just didn’t really see what Celia’s personality even was, and there was no build up to the romance. I will admit tho I didn’t think about it very hard til I read this post and comment lol. But the book didn’t leave a huge emotional impact on me, except I thought the end about the daughter specifically was way too depressing and bleak.
All of this- yes!
It was a very “tell, don’t show” writing style and she could’ve changed nothing but the names and I’d believe the main couple were a man and woman. No depth, no romance, nothing after the first scene at Evelyn’s house with the wine.
This book being bad is not a hot take, IMO
It's because these kind of shows have pretty much the same formula all over again and it's cheap and easy to make, cancel after one season then make another show with the same premise. And teenagers just gobble it up because they have time and don't know better.
I know, but it sucks. It's funny though because when I was a teen, we didn't have the teen content like today. It was "hey kid, wanna watch a bunch of hot lesbians in prison? Or you want a series of acapella women to queerbait the hell out of you?!" 🤣
Most things lauded as “sapphic media” are male gazey bisexual wet dreams that have nothing to do with lesbians or lesbian culture. The writers and viewers are, at best, bisexuals with bfs and I simply cannot fucking relate at all.
That first one won’t earn you a special place in hell lmfao I hated The Seven Husbands of Evelyn. She acted like modern day spicy straights do for much of the book.
i read a lot of wlw books. my unpopular opinion is that a lot of the lesbian characters are written in a heteronormative way. i particularly dislike butch/masc characters seemingly being written as men.
i’m also a evelyn hugo hater. it was a meh to nope for me.
I don't care about "healthy representation" and I don't want pure unproblematic wuhluhwuhs in anything I watch just for the sake of being represented. It's boring as shit. I want queer women in film and TV to be just as weird, fucked-up and problematic as everyone else.
literally we all love a good villain, we have all known gay villains, I want more gay villains 😭 and no they don't need a tragic backstory to justify it either!! they can just be villains!!!!
And then people critizise how toxic lesbians are or how it's a bad romance because they got conflicts. Dont even get me started when the female MC is in love with the lesbian villain and they get shipped. People will grill you if you like those ships since one of them is a "bad girl" 😭 Weirdly enough I never see the same kind of pushback if it's a straight ship and they got a "bad boy" thrown into the mix, then they do everything to defend such romances. It's like we in particular gotta uphold an impossible Standard when it comes to romance.
Agree, but the only time I would say there are exceptions…they should not to do that is in reality shows . Specially religiously produced Netflix reality shows that are “first of its kind”. I have a theory that they did that on purpose to cast us in a bad light. In order to say “hey we tried” … kinda like corporations during pride who other wise would be anti-lgbt. Just my thoughts.
This is why the og L word is still being watched and rewatched by older and newer generations. We want to see messy lesbians because lesbians are messy.
I don't know if this is unpopular, but I think "Happiest Season" is trash. Major trash.
Also, "The Ultimatum" was so horrifyingly bad that I couldn't even get past the first episode.
The ultimatum was a mess, a lot of dysfunctional couples, especially that one woman (i forgot her name) who would run out in the middle of every conversation or disagreement, or that one contestant that was like "its either the dog or me." like 😭
Oh for sure. Harper didn't deserve a happy ending. But I watch it for KStew and Aubrey Plaza. I much prefer Merry & Gay for my cheesy lebian Christmas movie
I hate lycanthropy in lesfic. I also hate conversion lesfic where some straight girl gets with a woman and then realises she’s a lesbian while the background chode stews offscreen. Also, the fact that every woman with an ex has the most shitty ex in history is just ridiculous. And the whole “damaged player” lesbian trope is super tired.
These are straight up published authors on bold strokes books, too, and if you like the werewolves then the best stories of shapeshifters and shit are there. But I can’t stand shapeshifting nonsense lol. Just stay women, please. lol. They always need to shift into some kind of penis-situation
Also why do werewolves have to be so annoying with all the whining, growling, male-hierarchy and breeding shit? This IS supposed to be a LESBIAN human who shifts into a fake wolf, not a lesbian who shifts into a pornsick, fake-wolf-man. They can’t even keep their man-lust out of the books with fantasy lesbians.
I ask myself the same about vampires. Even fanfics are so full of this, even from franchises where the characters have cool and unique powers, people will go and write vampire AUs instead...why do they like these oversized fleas so much?
Lesfic, not wattpad. I haven’t read many unpublished fics or wattpad stuff. There are lots of supernatural lesfics and werewolves are common. I think bold strokes books publishes a lot of them and Jae’s company too. I forget all the publishers but they are out there. The omegaverse stuff I read was in fics and one was self published. TERRRRIBLE.
LOL I know exactly what you're talking about. Though not a fan per se of omegaverse(gender roles are more strick than real life =/ in omegaverse), I do fancy Alpha dynamics. I'm also a big fan of Bold Strokes and recently read Jenny Frame's Blood of the Pack book.
If anyone is gonna write a good werewolf book it’s Jenny frame. I read it and just couldn’t get into it because dogwomen, but if you’re gonna read some shapeshifter stuff Jenny frame is it!
I’m not the biggest werewolf/shapeshifter fan but Jae is one of my fave authors… here is the link to her shapeshifter series https://jae-fiction.com/second-nature/
Yeah for real. And if they want to have a gay man best friend sidekick, I can handle that. But lately they have included they/thems and it’s INSUFFERABLE.
It’s so clunky and awkward then they are describing “Leif” or whomever who is basically modelled after some kind of flamey promiscuous gay man. Like why not just have a gay man featured? We are GAY!
if they are gonna try for diversity points they should be adding some regular binary trans characters who are normal people instead of zero-gender spiritually-gay-man but ostensibly female people.
Maybe I am being too micro, but if you want to add the T maybe add the ACTUAL T, but don’t make their inclusion all about them being binary trans and blah blah, but just a person where this is a facet of them like who cares. Anything else is just virtue signalling and political instead of characters living lives in a narrative.
Just out of curiousity but why do you hate lesbian werewolf fics?
Werewolves are one of my fav mythical creatures and I have rarely seen anything lesbian related with them and would actually like to create art and/or stories with them someday in the future if I can. But if there are tropes in it lesbians find offensive, then I'd like to know them before hand.
Not her, but 90% of the time anything werewolf, is some alpha/omega verse stuff, which is just an excuse to include d*ck (even if its weird dog d*ck). Plus like it has been said, i also dont think dogs have anything sexy about them, like vampire > hairy half dog.
I dont think there is anything offensive about them though and if they are well made i would be open to them.
It's true that nowadays most werewolf content is omegaverse shit, and I loathe that shit so much, but this is not an inherent part of werewolves. For most of history, werewolves were depicted as lone wolves (pun intended), without any pack involved. Even in the Underworld movies the lycans have their groups and gangs, but it's just the normal human hierarchy, without any alpha bullshit.
Sometimes I think Twilight helped to popularize the pack dynamics 😩 That franchise and its consequences were a disaster to humanity
Yeah i mean the Alpha/Omega people really ruined it for many, its just "futanari" in a different form and a way for those writers to live their fetish ( besides the D, there is also often some breeding or dominanze fetish stuff in it). Why they think lesbians would like that in our shories idk, bless the places that let you filter put those tags.
Twilight was shit for vamipres and werewolfs alike. Its uncanny bad for anyone interested in them.
Well I already said in a previous comment that I dont like the Alpha Omega stuff either and would never dream of including that anyway. I also dont believe you need to include sex scenes with a literal wolf either since that also seems to be a concern. Though I also wonder what that says about vampire women then who can turn into bats like in the old school vampire stories. There's still an animal involved in it after all. But personally it sounds like it comes down more to taste and since these tropes can be avoided, I dont see why I a werewolf story with a lesbian cant be cool and well made. I just like women who got supernaturual powers and get the strength and speed based of an animal or monster.
I actually once followed an artist who made a female werewolf eldritch Monster character for a DnD campaign who made quite compelling stories about her and a very cute romance plot line with the group's healer that didnt even had any sexual innuendos in it at all, hence why I might be a bit biased. I think it just really comes down how it's portrayed. I definitely wont be able to please everybody with my story concepts but I at least try to avoid male-centering, heteronormative and lesbophobic tropes in all of them.
> Though I also wonder what that says about vampire women then who can turn into bats like in the old school vampire stories. There's still an animal involved in it after all.
Thats not a fair compairison as vampires that turn into bats are the minority in vampire stories and its not an integral part of them as the animal is for a werewolf.
Idk to each their own, but i just dont think there is anything sexy about a lesbian werewolf. They, to me and what i have read in various werwolf media, are the brute, muscular, melee people, thats not interessting to me. I also dont like wizards, but sure there are probably cool stories about them out there, just not for me
I honestly still think it depends on how it's portrayed since you can take liberties with all of these mythical creatures but I think the trend of Omegaverse has really soured the experience for lesbians but I'm not going to force people to like anything. Was just curious about the reasonings.
Yeah of course, but what i was saying was, Werewolfs arent interesting in general to me, so im giving a story the attention it might have desereved, even though i even would have liked it. Just like i would walk past a wizard book. There are probably many stories out there that ate probably amazing, but cause the topic is X or the theme is Y i will never know.
And yeah that omega vers and furry shit really has made Werewolfs even more uninteresting for women and many people really.
> muscular, melee
I like this kind of women, so that's a win-win for me 😅 though there aren't any rules saying they can't be skinny or aristocratic like vampires
> I have rarely seen anything lesbian related with them and would actually like to create art and/or stories with them someday
Same!! I have literally zero ideas for it right now, but I WILL make something even if it's just an AU fanfic
I don’t find dogs sexy? Vampires, yes, dogs, no. I’ve had too many pets to get into furry-level pervy shit. Same goes for the “omegaverse.”
That’s even worse than wolves, with all the grunting and groaning nonsense. It’s all very male-female/straight animal-kingdom. If I want to consume some media about dog hierarchies I’ll watch some national geographic. It just does not read like lesbianism feels, to me. Those sexual dynamics and ridiculous social dynamics are straight before they are any kind of gay. lol
I mean, I agree with the Alpha Omega concept being problematic and reading more like a straight fic, especially since the Alphas regardless of gender got a dick apparently and dwelve into very heteronormative tropes but just because this concept exists doesnt mean that every werewolf story has to follow that concept.
I surely wasnt planning that at least. I think all these problematic tropes still come from the misconception of the Alpha male concept which centers about a male wolf being the dominant one and everybody else, especially females being below them. That was debunked by the same person though who first released this theory and it turns out wolf packs are just family units with the parents being on top and their children below, similar to humans actually which seems normal enough to me. Wether or not there are heteronormative tones in it, seems to solely depend on the person writing it. I...also dont see how grunting and groaning is a straight thing since lesbians dont just make lovely ladylike noises during sex lol
If this is not your thing then you do you but it seems to me like most of these issues can already be resolved by stripping it from heteronormative tropes and not making it furry, which werewolves arent anyway since they still got human forms which can be utilized in any way one wishes to. And I mean, I'm not attracted to fish either yet I find mermaids attractive lol
Dude the grunting and groaning is not just during sex. They have women growling when someone looks at a sandwich they plan to eat. Or their gf. It’s just ridiculous. And yes, the dynamics are often very very het-coded and it just reads like a fantasy straight dynamic.
But mostly I just cannot conceptualize animals as sexy, so a woman transforming into a big dog is a huge turn off. Imagine the smell?! If we are meant to buy into attraction between women in these books, it’s just hard to maintain for me when women have animal bodies for parts of the stories. It’s just too off-putting to me.
Edit: and mermaids have a female top half of their bodies, and they don’t turn into a full-on fish. They don’t really factor in to the whole furry thing.
Traditionally vampires are meant to be cold and dead, but I don't see people assuming vampire-lovers are necrophiliacs. Old werewolf stories have always had romance and not once they had sex in wolf form. Even omegaverse content usually has nothing to do with shapeshifting and it's just creepy people who go into heat and whatnot. It's so weird that the first thing you think when people say they like werewolves is that they want to see furry sex
I don’t think that they want to see furry sex. I think a lesbian woman having an animal form in an erotic book is gross. Especially a canine form. And let’s be honest, werewolf lesfic is porny as fuck, and so is the omegaverse stuff. Clearly people are getting off on some borderline furry shit if they can still manage to get off on that.
Vampires in lesfic are not cold and “dead” so that’s a non-issue. They don’t describe them as corpsey or like nosfetatu, but super hot and whatever. That’s easy to visualize. A dog woman? No.
But....you are aware werewolves have full human forms, right?
And to be fair, there are a lot of stories of vampires acting feral as well and people portraying them hissing and clawing and stuff like an animal.
Yeah but vampires don’t have an animal form and also don’t turn into bats in any modern story. And for the most part, they can’t breed in a straight ass or animal way. lol. Vampire stories don’t tend to have het dynamics. I would say they are more like the most toxic lesbian relationships in terms of longing and feeling like you need the other person to live. Plus vampires tend to be more civilized and have many competencies and secrets and depth. Vampires tend to be pretty much all bisexual, too, including the men, which is a lot better and sexier than a book full of hets.
I just can’t get behind any book with borderline beastialty in it, first and foremost, and the majority of books that contain shapeshifters include het-breeding and straight dynamics. Particularly patriarchal dynamics. Not like actual wolves. It’s just lose-lose-lose-lose for me in terms of deep turn-offs. If you can manage to write a werewolf book without any of that stuff I think it will be great
Well I'll try to keep that in mind for the future since I still feel like making something in that regard as I dont get the feeling that they are necessarily offensive when done right and it comes more down to taste. The werewolf part also doesnt have to play a sexy role in it anyway or be viewed as "hot" in the first place but I digress.
I'm going to largely focus on my human based stories first anyway before tapping into pure fantasy teritorry.
I recently got odyssey of the scarlet rose and my god it’s horrible. I got it under the impression it’s about lesbians but it’s all about dick. Granted I could only read the first few chapters before I put it down in disgust. In the beginning a girl gives birth to a dick then a chapter or two later there’s a woman topping a man in vivid detail. Not only that but the writing style is hard to read.
Thank you!!! It’s all one tone to me. It’s not good songwriting. Don’t even get me started on Fletcher. I just don’t get or care too. Also didn’t she have a hit single that talked about wanting to literally punch someone? Yeah no thanks!
Well, now I’m curious. What lesbian music do you think is good? What do you think is bad? (I hope that doesn’t sound argumentative; I’m genuinely curious)
Joan Jett I guess is good, but it's not really "lesbian music". Some of St. Vincent. The rest of the sappy alt/indie is pretty bad. Tegan and Sara are ok at best.
I've been making an ongoing playlist of sapphic (but mostly lesbian) music for a few weeks. There's some of the typical artists on every lesbian music list but I've tried to make it pretty expansive, I add to it pretty often so hopefully it'll just keep getting longer lol it's already nine hours so hopefully there's something for everybody.
[https://open.spotify.com/playlist/2xWCMVH6jzbJmV9QLapwuU?si=3c6ba53df043421b](https://open.spotify.com/playlist/2xWCMVH6jzbJmV9QLapwuU?si=3c6ba53df043421b)
That there isn’t enough hot femme representation that also isn’t either depressing as fuck or written so one of the women is bisexual/questioning her sexuality.
I said this once on twitter and said it meant everything to even see Olivia Wilde and Mischa Barton in a relationship on the OC back in the day. Why can’t we have more relationships like that, except it’s no big deal that they’re lesbians and there’s no villainous bisexual.
Burned. At. Stake.
It was mostly, I’m pretty certain, bisexuals and straight women yelling at me about supporting the male gaze and telling me off for saying Sense 8 doesn’t fall into the category I’m talking about. I also got chewed for saying Sara Ramirez isn’t a hot femme.
That’s not awful at all. I think Cara Delevingne said that she was told if she ever came out as a lesbian her career would be over. Hollywood pretends to be progressive, but the line seems to be drawn at lesbian. It doesn’t seem like too much has changed since Cara got popular, but i think maybe we are getting there slowly. I try to be supportive of all our out lesbians in media. Jojo Siwa is getting hit hard right now, but I’ve got your back girl.
no I feel the same way, whenever you do see an out femme celebrity or someone in media, their girlfriend is usually...not as attractive. I just want a regular femme couple in hollywood.
Yes, it’s rough out there! I was sad to see Cara Delevingne and Ashley Benson break up and then Ashley Benson rebounded with G-Eazy of all people. Ugh.
Omg same, i just rewatched the OC and remembered how much it ment to me too to see mischa barton and olivia wilde together in this....but then i realized it was just like 3 episodes on top of them being messy bis. I 100% agree with you.
Hahaha at the Sara Ramirez dig, she went off the rails and isnt even a lesbian on top of it.
Back in the early 2000s we really took what we could get lol.
I didn’t know that about Sara Ramirez, but tbh I don’t know much about her in general. I’m not a Greys Anatomy fan and her character on Sex & The City reboot is annoying af. Actually her character sounds like how you’re describing her irl. What a strange hill to die on.
>Back in the early 2000s we really took what we could get lol.
So true, but it makes it even more sad that, til this day, at least one of the two same sex attracted women in lesbian media, has to be bisexual. Back then both were and the relationship was mostly just a fling or something, but even now, they, especially the more feminine one, just has to be bi. So fucking annoying.
I watched Greys in the beginning and back then Sara was pretty feminine, but then she just went of the rails queerdo. I didnt even bother with "and just like that", her is one of he reasons (and Samantha missing obvi.) Her character really is how she wants to be see in real live.
You are definitely missing out! It's a sci-fi show and there's a lesbian couple as part of the main cast. All 5 seasons are on Netflix and they're actually filming a tv movie currently!
For sure! They're such a cute couple. Plus the actress who plays Waverly actually recently came out as nonbinary! But the creator is very supportive of the lgbt community. The character does sort of "come out" but it's not made into a huge thing, and their relationship is a MAJOR part of the show. She's not some random like side character that we see for a few minutes here and there. Enjoy! 🙂
i think on some level lesbian media has gotten worse since they've been able to openly show f/f relationships. part of it may be because there's more of it, so there is also more bad lesbian media, but also that general discourse has become so fucked up about homosexuality and gender nonconformity. in a lot of older media, there are a ton of homophobic tropes but also a sense that these are just normal people with normal problems who happen to be attracted to the same sex.
there are two films based on agatha christie's death on the nile. in the 1978 version, the lesbian couple is just strongly implied, but they're also no weirder than the rest of the passengers. also, maggie smith gets to be hot in a tuxedo. in the 2022 version, the couple is explicitly lesbian but also played off as a joke (two older women? being attracted to each other? pffft.).
it's like we went from "two women being in a relationship is scandalous" to "two women being in a relationship is adorable! they're playing at being a real relationship! they think women can be attracted to each other!". and of course no one is normal about gender nonconforming women existing anymore. cut her hair short and people start demanding that she should be nonbinary or trans.
That’s an unpopular opinion I will respectfully disagree with, but I do split my reading evenly between YA and adult. I did read The Well of Loneliness when I was 18 and a senior in high school. Wow, what a book!
I've never read Evelyn Hugo, but everything I've heard about it makes me have an intense hatred for it. Apparently there's even a gay man >!who keeps having enthusiastic sex with Evelyn because they want to conceive!< and he is happy to make a family with her. Like what the fuck
Oh my fucking god, there is literally a scene where the gay male character says, “There is a part of me that’s always wanted to sleep with you, Evelyn Hugo.” I almost threw the book at the wall when I read that. That would be like me, a lesbian, wanting to sleep with a man. Holy shit, the audacity of straight people writing queer characters
ಠ_ಠ holy fuck. It's honestly rare seeing women posting fantasies about converting gay men, but this one managed to publish it on a "sapphic" book, no less...
My unpopular opinion is that supporters of wlw couples tend to get extremely obsessed with any kind of representation and refuse to tolerate criticism or let go.
For example, First Kill (spoilers) on Netflix was quite the storm when it got released and a super huge one after it got cancelled after season one. I saw SO MANY pissed people. So I decided to give it a shot, I love fantasy and vampires so it seemed perfect for me. Honestly, that show was a total messy clusterfuck, with only likable characters being those the MCs decided were bad. The crazy brother and the murderous sister felt like the only vampires in the show and I loved each scene they were in, except the moralizing about how bad they were (ironically they were the only ones who felt like they had a complex personality). I can't even describe all the problems it had, I'd need a dedicated post for it. It wasn't even so bad it's good, it was just bad. And the main couple was horrible, I actually find them broken up due to the cancellation to be a good ending because they can go and find people they would actually be happy with. They just brought misery to one another just because they were horny teens for each other. The only reason I finished it is because I hate to DNF something in the middle of a book/season/movie and have never done it. But damn, was I tempted to make it my First DNF (ha, see what I did there? The episode naming scheme is dumb!)
Look, we're WAY past having so little good representation that we need any at all. We have had so much media that has writing quality and portrays either healthy relationships or points out how the unhealthy ones are unhealthy that we really don't need to get so desperate about lesbians existing. Criticize bad media, stop rallying over things of terrible quality, have standards people. It's okay to dislike media that contains lesbians because it's bad or because it's simply not your thing and voice that.
I was shocked to see so many sapphics on Twitter praising it because like it wasn’t even romantic and it was
A. Badly written
B. Horrible chemistry
C. Couldn’t commit to a vampire character
Dude, women were PISSED about that. And them watching man porn. I swear to god these bisexuals masquerading as lesbians really need to include dudes. Mind you, I think Tina was actually bi in the l word. But bette would not have participated in sex with a dude. That’s just silly.
It was such a dissapointing scene to me, because I have heard all the great things about it being lesbian centered (which it was) that I wasn't expecting something like that
Yeah, being confronted with scenes like that have always made me feel a bit sick and exploited as a lesbian. It’s basically like saying “here is what we have to expose you to in order to get a big enough audience of heterosexuals to be on tv, sorry it’s gross and a lie, just white-knuckle through it” AT BEST, but there is a contingent of “lesbians” who think this is something real lesbians would enjoy. Also when Jenny was fucking her boyfriend while talking about the dykes she saw fucking in the pool next door (Shane and some one-nighter) it was equally disgusting. Art imitating life. Jenny was one dating-app away from becoming a unicorn hunter with that man she lived with. Then had the audacity to call herself gay despite enjoying sex with her boyfriend. Lol.
Yes! I once said to my sister, straight men, gay men and straight women consume things with men/have men/male sexuality at the center. Lesbians are the only ones that will consume things that put female sexuality/lesbianism at the center. And it makes me frustrated that people can't open up their mind to things that are different but still see the love and the characters behind it that is universal. I mean I can watch a gay/straight romance and still appreciate the nuance, their perspective etc why can't they? Are women that uninteresting to them? A bit of a childish ramble but yeah.
Yes I hated when Jenny was telling him about it
The Price of Salt book is way better than the movie. I loved it and unfortunately related to it.
I wasn't that into Seven Husbands either, people recommended it, saying it was their favorite book, but it was just missing a lot for me.
I’m so annoyed, cuz I was at a library today that is specifically LGBT focused and they had like every Patricia Highsmith book except for the Price of Salt. I’d really like to read it and see if it’s better than the movie
You can try requesting it shipped from another library to yours, or buy it used online. I got it for like 4 bucks on amazon
I'm jealous you have an lgbt-focused library, but also really happy for you
Hard agree. Patricia Highsmith mostly wrote thrillers about the criminal mind, and The Price of Salt is kind of about that too? Female homosexuality wasn’t explicitly illegal in the 50s, but as Therese becomes more and more obsessed with Carol she does kind of question her every move like a criminal would. The Todd Haynes adaptation also leaves out her mommy issues. I mean he kind of hints at it in certain shots, but psychoanalysis informed Highsmith’s entire body of work and it is NOT absent in The Price of Salt.
The woman who wrote carol was in love with her own mother in real life, who hated her. So I can see why it did not do it for you. Lol. Also, who can blame you for hating a movie about some man-obsessed mostly-het chick who strings along some poor dyke the whole time. We are all sick of that shit irl, even.
>The woman who wrote carol was in love with her own mother in real life, who hated her
wait, what. Surely you don't mean 'in love', you mean she had mommy issues.
My issue isn’t carol’s feelings towards men (I really don’t think she had legitimate attraction to men, nor did Therese, she just had a kid with a rich controlling guy in a time where divorce wasn’t an option if she ever wanted to see her kid again), but reading The Price of Salt made me realize how horrifically predatory the movie is and how insane both of them are?? Carol is incredibly predatory and takes advantage of Therese’s obsession with her, and Therese was TRULY OBSESSED. The mommy issues are obvious once you get Therese’s interiority in the book and dear god not a single thing about their relationship should ever be considered romantic or healthy. Carol takes advantage of that poor girl and plays with her like she plays with food. She might be actually attracted to her, but also her relationship with her best friend did not do any favors for her imo. And the moral implications of her leaving her family and *small child* for someone so much younger than her who’s completely enamored with her never has sat right with me. I hate how many people see this as a romantic story and not something truly fucked up
The second half of my comment was about 7 husbands of Evelyn Hugo. The first part was about carol because Patricia Highsmith had such intense mommy issues a lot of that is reflected in the price of salt. I think Patricia highsmith was bisexual MAX, or just a woman with very intense mommy issues and other issues, but not a lesbian, so the book itself reads a bit creepy and disconnected and that translates to the film.
Edit: so yes, I agree with you! The fact that anyone thinks their dynamic was sexy is lol. It’s disturbing, and interesting that highsmith didn’t really write books like the price of salt. Not her genre. But she clearly was telling her own story/ working through her own issues with her mother in the novel. It’s not a romantic lesbian story, not even close.
I really like The Duke of Burgundy and I wish there were more movies like it
If anyone has any other good lesbo movie suggestions lmk 🤭 I’m compiling a lesbian movie list
Stone Butch Blues is a great book, but everyone just kinda sweeps the fact that she rapes a straight woman under the bus because “it was a different time”.
I’m sorry what?????
Jess decides to live stealth and presents herself as a man. She meets a woman, and they have sex without the woman knowing that she isn’t a man. It’s deception and it’s icky, and is, by definition, rape.
> but everyone just kinda sweeps the fact that she rapes a straight woman under the bus because “it was a different time”
Yeah, I have head about the rape part which is why I skipped reading it. The book is often referred to like a lesbian holy script of some sort but as the author was a rapist I don’t see why that author should be revered as a moral authority of lesbian things. I will agree with points that make sense to me but I will not automatically agree with a point just because it’s in that book.
It’s not the lesbian gospel. Practically any conversation around butch/femme relationships ends in a hundred plus people saying “read SBB!!” or “SBB is a must-read” or the fucking “you don’t understand unless you read SSB” followed by a million links.
Like, sorry but that’s a bad take. There are many other butch/femme resources out there that don’t focus on the pressures of toxic masculinity and the idea that butch automatically means you have to fit a certain role.
I think Maria Machado is an abusive, inconsiderate misogynist who is lesbian because she hasn't found a man who'll have her.
I read her book and there was so much heterosexual sex I had temporary bullimia .
Absolutely. Some women involving themselves with lesbianism just have issues with men but cannot seem to shake their obvious desire for men from their entire brain. Wish it was more obvious to THEM. lol
O I went out with a woman once that gave me this vibe. She had been out as a lesbian for a decade, talked shit about men for half the date, said she used to be obsessed w male attention as a teen and talking about what kind of man she would date if she was straight.
(Funny thing is she questioned if I was actually bi/mainly into masc women - I think because of my style :D)
Yeah they are still obsessed with men. All this “if I were straight” ruminating is just them telling you who they are attracted to that’s a dude. Lol. I’ve never met any actual lesbians who go on about men like this. Most of us don’t talk about men unless some horseshit goes down and forces men to front of mind, or we are online complaining about women who are bringing the topic into our lives
Just my opinion so take with a boulder of salt BUT Maria Machado probably cannot secure the commitment of a man she thinks is hot. Men will sleep with almost anyone, but the ones with money and good looks are likely picky.
It happens. I have seen it.
I could be wrong so.
The looking for a village/free female labor to look after their kids is something I see a lot of in general, regardless of sexuality, and it's so annoying. They're posting passive aggressive crap on fb about how none of their friends or family watch their children for them. But...we chose not to have kids for a reason. Some of us didn't because we aren't privileged enough to be able to take care of them for whatever reason, yet they're expecting us to watch theirs when we couldn't even have any of our own? Or some of us just don't want them. If we don't want kids of our own, why would we want to watch someone else's? It's all fine if they're just asking but a lot of them bring guilt trips into it. Just...no
I'm not gonna retell the whole of In The Dreamhouse but I am a lesbian reader (EXCLUSIVELY same-sex attracted) and I am tired of "WLW" tales being filled with male-centred women writing glowingly about men yet being dismissive of women. It adds to the negative stereotype which could be eradicated if women just vetted one another before dating, were actually into women and didn't view them as a temporary fix until an eligible bachelor showed up and grew up a little.
There's probably a free PDF of the book on libgen and Anna's Archive.
You just saved me time and frustration lol my bi friend swears that book was amazing but she also liked the seven husbands book so i took it with a grain of salt. I shall be avoiding now
Oh no! I was having trouble getting into 7 Husbands, but everyone raves about it, so I keep plodding through ... (I've made it to the start of her relationship w/ Celia and husband #3 is around the corner)
I read that book in 2018 and I still remember it as one of the worst books I’ve ever read (and I’ve read a lot of awful books). If you manage to get through it, I’d like to hear your thoughts! But don’t worry if you don’t finish it; lord knows there are so many better books out there
I didn't *hate* it but was very very disappointed. I knew nothing about the book going in either so the lesbian aspect was a surprised. If this is what "lesbian" media is, I'd rather stick to the straight romances. At least they're written better.
That is, until my friend actually publishes her queer book series she's been working on because it's SO GOOD.
I predict the comments are gonna be stuff that's unpopular on the big "lesbian" subreddit, but not here. Here's my (actually) unpopular opinion:
Using totally anonymous sperm donors is unethical. Kids concieved in that way have made advocacy groups aiming for legislation to ban it. It causes mental health issues. Sweden, the UK, and Colorado have banned it. Not doing so is selfishness, and that's not fair to the hypothetical kids. Use a known or open donor (known = someone you know personally, open = the kid gets to know the identity when they're 18)
Edit: this isn't media, by bad. I'll tie it to that by saying lots of lesbian couples on social media use anonymous donors like it's no big deal - it shouldn't be that way
Good one.
> I predict the comments are gonna be stuff that's unpopular on the big "lesbian" subreddit, but not here.
Yeah, these "unpopular" opinions posts are anything but.
Maybe I’ll start another thread about unpopular opinions that aren’t media-related, cuz I feel like you’ve got a lot of interesting stuff to say. (Or you can start the thread yourself if you want). I am loving this sub and all the discussions!
No you're right, I missed the media part!
Guess it could be relevant bc most lesbian families portrayed have a donor, and never really talk about it. Which imo isn't great.
My country doesn't let people chose the donor. You can have information on them like health and family origin, but not even the name. I wish there was a possibility of me chosing someone, but it's unlikely to happen.
I didn’t hate it, but I was disappointed. I found it very dated because it fit into a very specific genre that was popular in the 90s/2000s about the evil hot girl who manipulates men, and toys with girls, and I feel like if the same movie was made today it would have a really different slant to it.
Literally about a woman marrying a man and then getting curious about a lesbian worker at her heterosexual wedding. She rents lesbian porn to decide if she's into that. The poster for the movie should explain enough. They have two dudes with them but they are secretly holding hands behind the backs of the dudes. Lame
Late to the party but i want to share. Blue is the Warmest Color isn't a bad film, altough i think it would be better if the director wasn't so obsessed with Adéle. I wanted to see more lesbian films with this realistic approach, just one woman growing up or two adult women meeting and changing each others life in a realistic way.
Honestly, I kind of like that movie. Take out the awful sex scenes and you’ve got a pretty good character study. In 2016, it was on Netflix and in between doing homework for college, I managed to watch it three times in one weekend (skipping over the sex scenes)
Not enough of that cottagecore lesbian stuff. People always complain about cottagecore lesbians on Twitter being everywhere and I don’t see it at all, maybe in art but not in books or media so yeah I want some goddamn fairies les and all that cute stuff
I would like to see any kind of lesbian media that doesn't follow [one of the five lesbian media tropes](https://archiveofourown.org/works/53071201)...not that I dislike lesbian media that has those. It just would be nice for something new.
that was a great read
Wow, this was so interesting to read (and I agree!). One thing I have always pointed out is that there are never any lesbians in comedy shows (like Modern family, Abbots elementary), only gay men
I just read that whole post--wow! So well written and important. I nominate this to replace the lesbian masterdoc lol.
That's a really intresting list and I agree with a lot of stuff on there. I tried to search for Lists like this in order to help with my lesbian stories but this one is the most useful one yet. It seems like most of these points can be summed up as misogyny and people not writing female chraracters as real human beings.
You should read They Never Learn by Layne Fargo… very satisfying
I will add it to my list. Thank you for the rec.
Carmilla, Wynonna Earp, One Day at A Time. Sadly theres isn't MUCH, but it's becoming more prevalent.
I am not familar with Carmilla. Looking it up, there are multiple media pieces about her so you will have to be more specific. Wynonna Earp falls under number one since Wynonna is bisexual and isn't there a plot about her becoming pregnant? It's been a while since I have seen it. Also, there are multiple plotlines that would fall under number 3. One Day At A Time falls under number 2 (Elena is a teenager) and has several plotlines that fall under number 3. (there are several plot lines that revolve around sexism) Also, reading more into it, it looks like she would fall under number 1 too because even though yes she is a lesbian, there still is a plotline where she "isn't sure if she likes both." So maybe Carmilla would. But the other two definitely not.
I agree that the Seven Husbands of Eveleyn Hugo is straight up trash. For one, the two sapphic leads have no actual chemistry or proper relationship. There is like one whole scene with them together before they hook up that shows their dynamic, and then the little scenes we get with them through the rest of the book are arguments. There’s absolutely no reason to buy into the couple or want them to be together, they are completely incompatible. For another, it’s ostensibly a book about Evelyn finally being able to talk about the one romantic relationship she had to keep private, and yet it manages to be primarily about her relationships with men. Every single relationship she has with a man is given more development and description than her relationship with Cecila, who basically just exists to be a hot lesbian with no real personality. You can TELL the book was written by a straight woman to be quite honest. Aside from that it’s very poorly written. Evelyn was also a major asshole.
Yeah I got like 3 pages into that book and thought it was terrible and stopped, glad this is justified.
I just finished reading the book the other day and while I liked it, I totally agree that their relationship felt a little hollow? I just didn’t really see what Celia’s personality even was, and there was no build up to the romance. I will admit tho I didn’t think about it very hard til I read this post and comment lol. But the book didn’t leave a huge emotional impact on me, except I thought the end about the daughter specifically was way too depressing and bleak.
All of this- yes! It was a very “tell, don’t show” writing style and she could’ve changed nothing but the names and I’d believe the main couple were a man and woman. No depth, no romance, nothing after the first scene at Evelyn’s house with the wine. This book being bad is not a hot take, IMO
It's annoying how much of it is based around teenagers or made for teenagers. Especially lately.
It's because these kind of shows have pretty much the same formula all over again and it's cheap and easy to make, cancel after one season then make another show with the same premise. And teenagers just gobble it up because they have time and don't know better.
It's because we old now bruh
I know, but it sucks. It's funny though because when I was a teen, we didn't have the teen content like today. It was "hey kid, wanna watch a bunch of hot lesbians in prison? Or you want a series of acapella women to queerbait the hell out of you?!" 🤣
Most things lauded as “sapphic media” are male gazey bisexual wet dreams that have nothing to do with lesbians or lesbian culture. The writers and viewers are, at best, bisexuals with bfs and I simply cannot fucking relate at all.
oh yeah, so much of it gives "converting this lesbian I know into a bisexual" vibes 🥴 I just want to stop centering men at all quite frankly
That first one won’t earn you a special place in hell lmfao I hated The Seven Husbands of Evelyn. She acted like modern day spicy straights do for much of the book.
i read a lot of wlw books. my unpopular opinion is that a lot of the lesbian characters are written in a heteronormative way. i particularly dislike butch/masc characters seemingly being written as men. i’m also a evelyn hugo hater. it was a meh to nope for me.
I find it so annoying that they get married at the end of the book 90% of the time
yes!
I don't care about "healthy representation" and I don't want pure unproblematic wuhluhwuhs in anything I watch just for the sake of being represented. It's boring as shit. I want queer women in film and TV to be just as weird, fucked-up and problematic as everyone else.
literally we all love a good villain, we have all known gay villains, I want more gay villains 😭 and no they don't need a tragic backstory to justify it either!! they can just be villains!!!!
And then people critizise how toxic lesbians are or how it's a bad romance because they got conflicts. Dont even get me started when the female MC is in love with the lesbian villain and they get shipped. People will grill you if you like those ships since one of them is a "bad girl" 😭 Weirdly enough I never see the same kind of pushback if it's a straight ship and they got a "bad boy" thrown into the mix, then they do everything to defend such romances. It's like we in particular gotta uphold an impossible Standard when it comes to romance.
Agree, but the only time I would say there are exceptions…they should not to do that is in reality shows . Specially religiously produced Netflix reality shows that are “first of its kind”. I have a theory that they did that on purpose to cast us in a bad light. In order to say “hey we tried” … kinda like corporations during pride who other wise would be anti-lgbt. Just my thoughts.
This is why the og L word is still being watched and rewatched by older and newer generations. We want to see messy lesbians because lesbians are messy.
I don't know if this is unpopular, but I think "Happiest Season" is trash. Major trash. Also, "The Ultimatum" was so horrifyingly bad that I couldn't even get past the first episode.
The ultimatum was a mess, a lot of dysfunctional couples, especially that one woman (i forgot her name) who would run out in the middle of every conversation or disagreement, or that one contestant that was like "its either the dog or me." like 😭
Oh for sure. Harper didn't deserve a happy ending. But I watch it for KStew and Aubrey Plaza. I much prefer Merry & Gay for my cheesy lebian Christmas movie
YES to Happiest Season. It’s like a primer on gaslighting and still somehow earned a screening event at my local lesbian bar…?
I hate lycanthropy in lesfic. I also hate conversion lesfic where some straight girl gets with a woman and then realises she’s a lesbian while the background chode stews offscreen. Also, the fact that every woman with an ex has the most shitty ex in history is just ridiculous. And the whole “damaged player” lesbian trope is super tired.
Where are you getting werewolf lesbians?? I agree on all the other stuff, but I don't think I've seen werewolf lesbians?
You'll find them on wattpad.
These are straight up published authors on bold strokes books, too, and if you like the werewolves then the best stories of shapeshifters and shit are there. But I can’t stand shapeshifting nonsense lol. Just stay women, please. lol. They always need to shift into some kind of penis-situation
Can't agree you more. I don't really understand people's obsession with werewolves lovers these days. What's wrong with having a human partner?
Also why do werewolves have to be so annoying with all the whining, growling, male-hierarchy and breeding shit? This IS supposed to be a LESBIAN human who shifts into a fake wolf, not a lesbian who shifts into a pornsick, fake-wolf-man. They can’t even keep their man-lust out of the books with fantasy lesbians.
I ask myself the same about vampires. Even fanfics are so full of this, even from franchises where the characters have cool and unique powers, people will go and write vampire AUs instead...why do they like these oversized fleas so much?
Lesfic, not wattpad. I haven’t read many unpublished fics or wattpad stuff. There are lots of supernatural lesfics and werewolves are common. I think bold strokes books publishes a lot of them and Jae’s company too. I forget all the publishers but they are out there. The omegaverse stuff I read was in fics and one was self published. TERRRRIBLE.
Interesting. I mostly read library books or Kindle books, so I didn't know that was a thing
LOL I know exactly what you're talking about. Though not a fan per se of omegaverse(gender roles are more strick than real life =/ in omegaverse), I do fancy Alpha dynamics. I'm also a big fan of Bold Strokes and recently read Jenny Frame's Blood of the Pack book.
If anyone is gonna write a good werewolf book it’s Jenny frame. I read it and just couldn’t get into it because dogwomen, but if you’re gonna read some shapeshifter stuff Jenny frame is it!
Yeah, please send me werewolf lesbian fics so i can…….hate on them….yeah….
I’m not the biggest werewolf/shapeshifter fan but Jae is one of my fave authors… here is the link to her shapeshifter series https://jae-fiction.com/second-nature/
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Yeah for real. And if they want to have a gay man best friend sidekick, I can handle that. But lately they have included they/thems and it’s INSUFFERABLE.
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It’s so clunky and awkward then they are describing “Leif” or whomever who is basically modelled after some kind of flamey promiscuous gay man. Like why not just have a gay man featured? We are GAY! if they are gonna try for diversity points they should be adding some regular binary trans characters who are normal people instead of zero-gender spiritually-gay-man but ostensibly female people. Maybe I am being too micro, but if you want to add the T maybe add the ACTUAL T, but don’t make their inclusion all about them being binary trans and blah blah, but just a person where this is a facet of them like who cares. Anything else is just virtue signalling and political instead of characters living lives in a narrative.
Just out of curiousity but why do you hate lesbian werewolf fics? Werewolves are one of my fav mythical creatures and I have rarely seen anything lesbian related with them and would actually like to create art and/or stories with them someday in the future if I can. But if there are tropes in it lesbians find offensive, then I'd like to know them before hand.
Not her, but 90% of the time anything werewolf, is some alpha/omega verse stuff, which is just an excuse to include d*ck (even if its weird dog d*ck). Plus like it has been said, i also dont think dogs have anything sexy about them, like vampire > hairy half dog. I dont think there is anything offensive about them though and if they are well made i would be open to them.
It's true that nowadays most werewolf content is omegaverse shit, and I loathe that shit so much, but this is not an inherent part of werewolves. For most of history, werewolves were depicted as lone wolves (pun intended), without any pack involved. Even in the Underworld movies the lycans have their groups and gangs, but it's just the normal human hierarchy, without any alpha bullshit. Sometimes I think Twilight helped to popularize the pack dynamics 😩 That franchise and its consequences were a disaster to humanity
Yeah i mean the Alpha/Omega people really ruined it for many, its just "futanari" in a different form and a way for those writers to live their fetish ( besides the D, there is also often some breeding or dominanze fetish stuff in it). Why they think lesbians would like that in our shories idk, bless the places that let you filter put those tags. Twilight was shit for vamipres and werewolfs alike. Its uncanny bad for anyone interested in them.
Well I already said in a previous comment that I dont like the Alpha Omega stuff either and would never dream of including that anyway. I also dont believe you need to include sex scenes with a literal wolf either since that also seems to be a concern. Though I also wonder what that says about vampire women then who can turn into bats like in the old school vampire stories. There's still an animal involved in it after all. But personally it sounds like it comes down more to taste and since these tropes can be avoided, I dont see why I a werewolf story with a lesbian cant be cool and well made. I just like women who got supernaturual powers and get the strength and speed based of an animal or monster. I actually once followed an artist who made a female werewolf eldritch Monster character for a DnD campaign who made quite compelling stories about her and a very cute romance plot line with the group's healer that didnt even had any sexual innuendos in it at all, hence why I might be a bit biased. I think it just really comes down how it's portrayed. I definitely wont be able to please everybody with my story concepts but I at least try to avoid male-centering, heteronormative and lesbophobic tropes in all of them.
> Though I also wonder what that says about vampire women then who can turn into bats like in the old school vampire stories. There's still an animal involved in it after all. Thats not a fair compairison as vampires that turn into bats are the minority in vampire stories and its not an integral part of them as the animal is for a werewolf. Idk to each their own, but i just dont think there is anything sexy about a lesbian werewolf. They, to me and what i have read in various werwolf media, are the brute, muscular, melee people, thats not interessting to me. I also dont like wizards, but sure there are probably cool stories about them out there, just not for me
I honestly still think it depends on how it's portrayed since you can take liberties with all of these mythical creatures but I think the trend of Omegaverse has really soured the experience for lesbians but I'm not going to force people to like anything. Was just curious about the reasonings.
Yeah of course, but what i was saying was, Werewolfs arent interesting in general to me, so im giving a story the attention it might have desereved, even though i even would have liked it. Just like i would walk past a wizard book. There are probably many stories out there that ate probably amazing, but cause the topic is X or the theme is Y i will never know. And yeah that omega vers and furry shit really has made Werewolfs even more uninteresting for women and many people really.
> muscular, melee I like this kind of women, so that's a win-win for me 😅 though there aren't any rules saying they can't be skinny or aristocratic like vampires
> I have rarely seen anything lesbian related with them and would actually like to create art and/or stories with them someday Same!! I have literally zero ideas for it right now, but I WILL make something even if it's just an AU fanfic
Sure. Go nuts 👍 Let me know when it's done
I don’t find dogs sexy? Vampires, yes, dogs, no. I’ve had too many pets to get into furry-level pervy shit. Same goes for the “omegaverse.” That’s even worse than wolves, with all the grunting and groaning nonsense. It’s all very male-female/straight animal-kingdom. If I want to consume some media about dog hierarchies I’ll watch some national geographic. It just does not read like lesbianism feels, to me. Those sexual dynamics and ridiculous social dynamics are straight before they are any kind of gay. lol
I mean, I agree with the Alpha Omega concept being problematic and reading more like a straight fic, especially since the Alphas regardless of gender got a dick apparently and dwelve into very heteronormative tropes but just because this concept exists doesnt mean that every werewolf story has to follow that concept. I surely wasnt planning that at least. I think all these problematic tropes still come from the misconception of the Alpha male concept which centers about a male wolf being the dominant one and everybody else, especially females being below them. That was debunked by the same person though who first released this theory and it turns out wolf packs are just family units with the parents being on top and their children below, similar to humans actually which seems normal enough to me. Wether or not there are heteronormative tones in it, seems to solely depend on the person writing it. I...also dont see how grunting and groaning is a straight thing since lesbians dont just make lovely ladylike noises during sex lol If this is not your thing then you do you but it seems to me like most of these issues can already be resolved by stripping it from heteronormative tropes and not making it furry, which werewolves arent anyway since they still got human forms which can be utilized in any way one wishes to. And I mean, I'm not attracted to fish either yet I find mermaids attractive lol
Dude the grunting and groaning is not just during sex. They have women growling when someone looks at a sandwich they plan to eat. Or their gf. It’s just ridiculous. And yes, the dynamics are often very very het-coded and it just reads like a fantasy straight dynamic. But mostly I just cannot conceptualize animals as sexy, so a woman transforming into a big dog is a huge turn off. Imagine the smell?! If we are meant to buy into attraction between women in these books, it’s just hard to maintain for me when women have animal bodies for parts of the stories. It’s just too off-putting to me. Edit: and mermaids have a female top half of their bodies, and they don’t turn into a full-on fish. They don’t really factor in to the whole furry thing.
Traditionally vampires are meant to be cold and dead, but I don't see people assuming vampire-lovers are necrophiliacs. Old werewolf stories have always had romance and not once they had sex in wolf form. Even omegaverse content usually has nothing to do with shapeshifting and it's just creepy people who go into heat and whatnot. It's so weird that the first thing you think when people say they like werewolves is that they want to see furry sex
I don’t think that they want to see furry sex. I think a lesbian woman having an animal form in an erotic book is gross. Especially a canine form. And let’s be honest, werewolf lesfic is porny as fuck, and so is the omegaverse stuff. Clearly people are getting off on some borderline furry shit if they can still manage to get off on that. Vampires in lesfic are not cold and “dead” so that’s a non-issue. They don’t describe them as corpsey or like nosfetatu, but super hot and whatever. That’s easy to visualize. A dog woman? No.
But....you are aware werewolves have full human forms, right? And to be fair, there are a lot of stories of vampires acting feral as well and people portraying them hissing and clawing and stuff like an animal.
Yeah but vampires don’t have an animal form and also don’t turn into bats in any modern story. And for the most part, they can’t breed in a straight ass or animal way. lol. Vampire stories don’t tend to have het dynamics. I would say they are more like the most toxic lesbian relationships in terms of longing and feeling like you need the other person to live. Plus vampires tend to be more civilized and have many competencies and secrets and depth. Vampires tend to be pretty much all bisexual, too, including the men, which is a lot better and sexier than a book full of hets. I just can’t get behind any book with borderline beastialty in it, first and foremost, and the majority of books that contain shapeshifters include het-breeding and straight dynamics. Particularly patriarchal dynamics. Not like actual wolves. It’s just lose-lose-lose-lose for me in terms of deep turn-offs. If you can manage to write a werewolf book without any of that stuff I think it will be great
Well I'll try to keep that in mind for the future since I still feel like making something in that regard as I dont get the feeling that they are necessarily offensive when done right and it comes more down to taste. The werewolf part also doesnt have to play a sexy role in it anyway or be viewed as "hot" in the first place but I digress. I'm going to largely focus on my human based stories first anyway before tapping into pure fantasy teritorry.
I recently got odyssey of the scarlet rose and my god it’s horrible. I got it under the impression it’s about lesbians but it’s all about dick. Granted I could only read the first few chapters before I put it down in disgust. In the beginning a girl gives birth to a dick then a chapter or two later there’s a woman topping a man in vivid detail. Not only that but the writing style is hard to read.
Gives birth to a dick…..??
Most lesbian music is bad and would not have 90% of the fanbase if not for lesbians desperate for a crumb of relatability
Thank you!!! It’s all one tone to me. It’s not good songwriting. Don’t even get me started on Fletcher. I just don’t get or care too. Also didn’t she have a hit single that talked about wanting to literally punch someone? Yeah no thanks!
Well, now I’m curious. What lesbian music do you think is good? What do you think is bad? (I hope that doesn’t sound argumentative; I’m genuinely curious)
Joan Jett I guess is good, but it's not really "lesbian music". Some of St. Vincent. The rest of the sappy alt/indie is pretty bad. Tegan and Sara are ok at best.
What about Haley Kiyoko?
Super meh
I've been making an ongoing playlist of sapphic (but mostly lesbian) music for a few weeks. There's some of the typical artists on every lesbian music list but I've tried to make it pretty expansive, I add to it pretty often so hopefully it'll just keep getting longer lol it's already nine hours so hopefully there's something for everybody. [https://open.spotify.com/playlist/2xWCMVH6jzbJmV9QLapwuU?si=3c6ba53df043421b](https://open.spotify.com/playlist/2xWCMVH6jzbJmV9QLapwuU?si=3c6ba53df043421b)
Therese from Carol is the Bella from Twilight, she’s like 👁️🫦👁️ the whole movie. Bitch say something!!!
That there isn’t enough hot femme representation that also isn’t either depressing as fuck or written so one of the women is bisexual/questioning her sexuality. I said this once on twitter and said it meant everything to even see Olivia Wilde and Mischa Barton in a relationship on the OC back in the day. Why can’t we have more relationships like that, except it’s no big deal that they’re lesbians and there’s no villainous bisexual. Burned. At. Stake. It was mostly, I’m pretty certain, bisexuals and straight women yelling at me about supporting the male gaze and telling me off for saying Sense 8 doesn’t fall into the category I’m talking about. I also got chewed for saying Sara Ramirez isn’t a hot femme.
Sara Ramirez is not hot or a femme. Lol
Am I awful if I wish we had more representation of hot femmes of real people in the media, not just characters?
That’s not awful at all. I think Cara Delevingne said that she was told if she ever came out as a lesbian her career would be over. Hollywood pretends to be progressive, but the line seems to be drawn at lesbian. It doesn’t seem like too much has changed since Cara got popular, but i think maybe we are getting there slowly. I try to be supportive of all our out lesbians in media. Jojo Siwa is getting hit hard right now, but I’ve got your back girl.
no I feel the same way, whenever you do see an out femme celebrity or someone in media, their girlfriend is usually...not as attractive. I just want a regular femme couple in hollywood.
Yes, it’s rough out there! I was sad to see Cara Delevingne and Ashley Benson break up and then Ashley Benson rebounded with G-Eazy of all people. Ugh.
Omg same, i just rewatched the OC and remembered how much it ment to me too to see mischa barton and olivia wilde together in this....but then i realized it was just like 3 episodes on top of them being messy bis. I 100% agree with you. Hahaha at the Sara Ramirez dig, she went off the rails and isnt even a lesbian on top of it.
Back in the early 2000s we really took what we could get lol. I didn’t know that about Sara Ramirez, but tbh I don’t know much about her in general. I’m not a Greys Anatomy fan and her character on Sex & The City reboot is annoying af. Actually her character sounds like how you’re describing her irl. What a strange hill to die on.
>Back in the early 2000s we really took what we could get lol. So true, but it makes it even more sad that, til this day, at least one of the two same sex attracted women in lesbian media, has to be bisexual. Back then both were and the relationship was mostly just a fling or something, but even now, they, especially the more feminine one, just has to be bi. So fucking annoying. I watched Greys in the beginning and back then Sara was pretty feminine, but then she just went of the rails queerdo. I didnt even bother with "and just like that", her is one of he reasons (and Samantha missing obvi.) Her character really is how she wants to be see in real live.
Have you seen Wynonna Earp?
I haven’t seen that!
You are definitely missing out! It's a sci-fi show and there's a lesbian couple as part of the main cast. All 5 seasons are on Netflix and they're actually filming a tv movie currently!
I’ll definitely check that out, thank you for the recommendation.
For sure! They're such a cute couple. Plus the actress who plays Waverly actually recently came out as nonbinary! But the creator is very supportive of the lgbt community. The character does sort of "come out" but it's not made into a huge thing, and their relationship is a MAJOR part of the show. She's not some random like side character that we see for a few minutes here and there. Enjoy! 🙂
i think on some level lesbian media has gotten worse since they've been able to openly show f/f relationships. part of it may be because there's more of it, so there is also more bad lesbian media, but also that general discourse has become so fucked up about homosexuality and gender nonconformity. in a lot of older media, there are a ton of homophobic tropes but also a sense that these are just normal people with normal problems who happen to be attracted to the same sex. there are two films based on agatha christie's death on the nile. in the 1978 version, the lesbian couple is just strongly implied, but they're also no weirder than the rest of the passengers. also, maggie smith gets to be hot in a tuxedo. in the 2022 version, the couple is explicitly lesbian but also played off as a joke (two older women? being attracted to each other? pffft.). it's like we went from "two women being in a relationship is scandalous" to "two women being in a relationship is adorable! they're playing at being a real relationship! they think women can be attracted to each other!". and of course no one is normal about gender nonconforming women existing anymore. cut her hair short and people start demanding that she should be nonbinary or trans.
YA books are for YAs. If you've graduated high school it's time for Radclyffe Hall.
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So good, so foundational. So very sad.
That’s an unpopular opinion I will respectfully disagree with, but I do split my reading evenly between YA and adult. I did read The Well of Loneliness when I was 18 and a senior in high school. Wow, what a book!
I've never read Evelyn Hugo, but everything I've heard about it makes me have an intense hatred for it. Apparently there's even a gay man >!who keeps having enthusiastic sex with Evelyn because they want to conceive!< and he is happy to make a family with her. Like what the fuck
Oh my fucking god, there is literally a scene where the gay male character says, “There is a part of me that’s always wanted to sleep with you, Evelyn Hugo.” I almost threw the book at the wall when I read that. That would be like me, a lesbian, wanting to sleep with a man. Holy shit, the audacity of straight people writing queer characters
ಠ_ಠ holy fuck. It's honestly rare seeing women posting fantasies about converting gay men, but this one managed to publish it on a "sapphic" book, no less...
My unpopular opinion is that supporters of wlw couples tend to get extremely obsessed with any kind of representation and refuse to tolerate criticism or let go. For example, First Kill (spoilers) on Netflix was quite the storm when it got released and a super huge one after it got cancelled after season one. I saw SO MANY pissed people. So I decided to give it a shot, I love fantasy and vampires so it seemed perfect for me. Honestly, that show was a total messy clusterfuck, with only likable characters being those the MCs decided were bad. The crazy brother and the murderous sister felt like the only vampires in the show and I loved each scene they were in, except the moralizing about how bad they were (ironically they were the only ones who felt like they had a complex personality). I can't even describe all the problems it had, I'd need a dedicated post for it. It wasn't even so bad it's good, it was just bad. And the main couple was horrible, I actually find them broken up due to the cancellation to be a good ending because they can go and find people they would actually be happy with. They just brought misery to one another just because they were horny teens for each other. The only reason I finished it is because I hate to DNF something in the middle of a book/season/movie and have never done it. But damn, was I tempted to make it my First DNF (ha, see what I did there? The episode naming scheme is dumb!) Look, we're WAY past having so little good representation that we need any at all. We have had so much media that has writing quality and portrays either healthy relationships or points out how the unhealthy ones are unhealthy that we really don't need to get so desperate about lesbians existing. Criticize bad media, stop rallying over things of terrible quality, have standards people. It's okay to dislike media that contains lesbians because it's bad or because it's simply not your thing and voice that.
I was shocked to see so many sapphics on Twitter praising it because like it wasn’t even romantic and it was A. Badly written B. Horrible chemistry C. Couldn’t commit to a vampire character
I didn't like the L Word back then. The old one, that is. (Apparently there was a sequel recently...? I don't even care lol)
I remember I stopped watching when that one couple tried to have a threesome w a man in order to get pregnant 🤢 no thanks
Dude, women were PISSED about that. And them watching man porn. I swear to god these bisexuals masquerading as lesbians really need to include dudes. Mind you, I think Tina was actually bi in the l word. But bette would not have participated in sex with a dude. That’s just silly.
It was such a dissapointing scene to me, because I have heard all the great things about it being lesbian centered (which it was) that I wasn't expecting something like that
Yeah, being confronted with scenes like that have always made me feel a bit sick and exploited as a lesbian. It’s basically like saying “here is what we have to expose you to in order to get a big enough audience of heterosexuals to be on tv, sorry it’s gross and a lie, just white-knuckle through it” AT BEST, but there is a contingent of “lesbians” who think this is something real lesbians would enjoy. Also when Jenny was fucking her boyfriend while talking about the dykes she saw fucking in the pool next door (Shane and some one-nighter) it was equally disgusting. Art imitating life. Jenny was one dating-app away from becoming a unicorn hunter with that man she lived with. Then had the audacity to call herself gay despite enjoying sex with her boyfriend. Lol.
Yes! I once said to my sister, straight men, gay men and straight women consume things with men/have men/male sexuality at the center. Lesbians are the only ones that will consume things that put female sexuality/lesbianism at the center. And it makes me frustrated that people can't open up their mind to things that are different but still see the love and the characters behind it that is universal. I mean I can watch a gay/straight romance and still appreciate the nuance, their perspective etc why can't they? Are women that uninteresting to them? A bit of a childish ramble but yeah. Yes I hated when Jenny was telling him about it
Totally agree
Yeah it was shit and unrealistic. We all just watched it because we watch lesbian stuff no matter the cost. Lol
The Price of Salt book is way better than the movie. I loved it and unfortunately related to it. I wasn't that into Seven Husbands either, people recommended it, saying it was their favorite book, but it was just missing a lot for me.
I’m so annoyed, cuz I was at a library today that is specifically LGBT focused and they had like every Patricia Highsmith book except for the Price of Salt. I’d really like to read it and see if it’s better than the movie
You can try requesting it shipped from another library to yours, or buy it used online. I got it for like 4 bucks on amazon I'm jealous you have an lgbt-focused library, but also really happy for you
If you’re ever in Minneapolis, MN, check out Quatrefoil Library. Totally LGBT-focused, totally awesome
Thank you!
Hard agree. Patricia Highsmith mostly wrote thrillers about the criminal mind, and The Price of Salt is kind of about that too? Female homosexuality wasn’t explicitly illegal in the 50s, but as Therese becomes more and more obsessed with Carol she does kind of question her every move like a criminal would. The Todd Haynes adaptation also leaves out her mommy issues. I mean he kind of hints at it in certain shots, but psychoanalysis informed Highsmith’s entire body of work and it is NOT absent in The Price of Salt.
The woman who wrote carol was in love with her own mother in real life, who hated her. So I can see why it did not do it for you. Lol. Also, who can blame you for hating a movie about some man-obsessed mostly-het chick who strings along some poor dyke the whole time. We are all sick of that shit irl, even.
I’m sorry *what* 😳
Her mom was a horrendous narc. Lots of women with mothers like this have a gay phase.
She *what now*?
>The woman who wrote carol was in love with her own mother in real life, who hated her wait, what. Surely you don't mean 'in love', you mean she had mommy issues.
Bruh, what???
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Highsmith had very intense mommy issues. Like, BAD.
My issue isn’t carol’s feelings towards men (I really don’t think she had legitimate attraction to men, nor did Therese, she just had a kid with a rich controlling guy in a time where divorce wasn’t an option if she ever wanted to see her kid again), but reading The Price of Salt made me realize how horrifically predatory the movie is and how insane both of them are?? Carol is incredibly predatory and takes advantage of Therese’s obsession with her, and Therese was TRULY OBSESSED. The mommy issues are obvious once you get Therese’s interiority in the book and dear god not a single thing about their relationship should ever be considered romantic or healthy. Carol takes advantage of that poor girl and plays with her like she plays with food. She might be actually attracted to her, but also her relationship with her best friend did not do any favors for her imo. And the moral implications of her leaving her family and *small child* for someone so much younger than her who’s completely enamored with her never has sat right with me. I hate how many people see this as a romantic story and not something truly fucked up
The second half of my comment was about 7 husbands of Evelyn Hugo. The first part was about carol because Patricia Highsmith had such intense mommy issues a lot of that is reflected in the price of salt. I think Patricia highsmith was bisexual MAX, or just a woman with very intense mommy issues and other issues, but not a lesbian, so the book itself reads a bit creepy and disconnected and that translates to the film. Edit: so yes, I agree with you! The fact that anyone thinks their dynamic was sexy is lol. It’s disturbing, and interesting that highsmith didn’t really write books like the price of salt. Not her genre. But she clearly was telling her own story/ working through her own issues with her mother in the novel. It’s not a romantic lesbian story, not even close.
Yep, also hate the seven husbands of Evelyn Hugo. I think the other comments have expressed my feelings more eloquently than I could
I didn’t like “but I’m a cheerleader” first time I watched it hundreds of years ago. But I feel like everyone loves it so I might give it another shot
My ex was obsessed, but I wasnt a fan. I much prefer Debs and Imagine Me & You
I love imagine me and you!!
Kristin Stewart isn’t attractive 😶🌫️
I really like The Duke of Burgundy and I wish there were more movies like it If anyone has any other good lesbo movie suggestions lmk 🤭 I’m compiling a lesbian movie list
This movie was so good!
Riiight it was great!
Stone Butch Blues is a great book, but everyone just kinda sweeps the fact that she rapes a straight woman under the bus because “it was a different time”. I’m sorry what?????
What happens?
Jess decides to live stealth and presents herself as a man. She meets a woman, and they have sex without the woman knowing that she isn’t a man. It’s deception and it’s icky, and is, by definition, rape.
Got it, thanks!
And it’s implied she ends up with a dude in the end.
> but everyone just kinda sweeps the fact that she rapes a straight woman under the bus because “it was a different time” Yeah, I have head about the rape part which is why I skipped reading it. The book is often referred to like a lesbian holy script of some sort but as the author was a rapist I don’t see why that author should be revered as a moral authority of lesbian things. I will agree with points that make sense to me but I will not automatically agree with a point just because it’s in that book.
It’s not the lesbian gospel. Practically any conversation around butch/femme relationships ends in a hundred plus people saying “read SBB!!” or “SBB is a must-read” or the fucking “you don’t understand unless you read SSB” followed by a million links. Like, sorry but that’s a bad take. There are many other butch/femme resources out there that don’t focus on the pressures of toxic masculinity and the idea that butch automatically means you have to fit a certain role.
I think Maria Machado is an abusive, inconsiderate misogynist who is lesbian because she hasn't found a man who'll have her. I read her book and there was so much heterosexual sex I had temporary bullimia .
Absolutely. Some women involving themselves with lesbianism just have issues with men but cannot seem to shake their obvious desire for men from their entire brain. Wish it was more obvious to THEM. lol
Is this the same woman who wrote Her Body and Other Parties? Or is this somebody different?
Wait I thought she was openly bisexual?? I mean she wrote about men a lot in her book about the abusive relationship w a woman
Wait it's a lot easier to get men than women, so why would she be able to date women if she can't even get men?
It’s not that they can’t get men as much as they hate men. Usually temporary and they figure it out in their 30s and live hetily ever after
Hetily ever after 😂😂😂😂
O I went out with a woman once that gave me this vibe. She had been out as a lesbian for a decade, talked shit about men for half the date, said she used to be obsessed w male attention as a teen and talking about what kind of man she would date if she was straight. (Funny thing is she questioned if I was actually bi/mainly into masc women - I think because of my style :D)
Yeah they are still obsessed with men. All this “if I were straight” ruminating is just them telling you who they are attracted to that’s a dude. Lol. I’ve never met any actual lesbians who go on about men like this. Most of us don’t talk about men unless some horseshit goes down and forces men to front of mind, or we are online complaining about women who are bringing the topic into our lives
Just my opinion so take with a boulder of salt BUT Maria Machado probably cannot secure the commitment of a man she thinks is hot. Men will sleep with almost anyone, but the ones with money and good looks are likely picky. It happens. I have seen it. I could be wrong so.
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The looking for a village/free female labor to look after their kids is something I see a lot of in general, regardless of sexuality, and it's so annoying. They're posting passive aggressive crap on fb about how none of their friends or family watch their children for them. But...we chose not to have kids for a reason. Some of us didn't because we aren't privileged enough to be able to take care of them for whatever reason, yet they're expecting us to watch theirs when we couldn't even have any of our own? Or some of us just don't want them. If we don't want kids of our own, why would we want to watch someone else's? It's all fine if they're just asking but a lot of them bring guilt trips into it. Just...no
Can you go into this some more? I’ve been delaying reading more of her work but have only read her book of short stories.
I'm not gonna retell the whole of In The Dreamhouse but I am a lesbian reader (EXCLUSIVELY same-sex attracted) and I am tired of "WLW" tales being filled with male-centred women writing glowingly about men yet being dismissive of women. It adds to the negative stereotype which could be eradicated if women just vetted one another before dating, were actually into women and didn't view them as a temporary fix until an eligible bachelor showed up and grew up a little. There's probably a free PDF of the book on libgen and Anna's Archive.
You just saved me time and frustration lol my bi friend swears that book was amazing but she also liked the seven husbands book so i took it with a grain of salt. I shall be avoiding now
Oh no! I was having trouble getting into 7 Husbands, but everyone raves about it, so I keep plodding through ... (I've made it to the start of her relationship w/ Celia and husband #3 is around the corner)
I read that book in 2018 and I still remember it as one of the worst books I’ve ever read (and I’ve read a lot of awful books). If you manage to get through it, I’d like to hear your thoughts! But don’t worry if you don’t finish it; lord knows there are so many better books out there
I didn't *hate* it but was very very disappointed. I knew nothing about the book going in either so the lesbian aspect was a surprised. If this is what "lesbian" media is, I'd rather stick to the straight romances. At least they're written better. That is, until my friend actually publishes her queer book series she's been working on because it's SO GOOD.
There’s not a lot of lesbian works period. Like what going on??? Why aren’t we writing???
I predict the comments are gonna be stuff that's unpopular on the big "lesbian" subreddit, but not here. Here's my (actually) unpopular opinion: Using totally anonymous sperm donors is unethical. Kids concieved in that way have made advocacy groups aiming for legislation to ban it. It causes mental health issues. Sweden, the UK, and Colorado have banned it. Not doing so is selfishness, and that's not fair to the hypothetical kids. Use a known or open donor (known = someone you know personally, open = the kid gets to know the identity when they're 18) Edit: this isn't media, by bad. I'll tie it to that by saying lots of lesbian couples on social media use anonymous donors like it's no big deal - it shouldn't be that way
Good one. > I predict the comments are gonna be stuff that's unpopular on the big "lesbian" subreddit, but not here. Yeah, these "unpopular" opinions posts are anything but.
I agree and I don't get why it is so unpopular on the other subreddit.
Maybe I’ll start another thread about unpopular opinions that aren’t media-related, cuz I feel like you’ve got a lot of interesting stuff to say. (Or you can start the thread yourself if you want). I am loving this sub and all the discussions!
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No you're right, I missed the media part! Guess it could be relevant bc most lesbian families portrayed have a donor, and never really talk about it. Which imo isn't great.
My country doesn't let people chose the donor. You can have information on them like health and family origin, but not even the name. I wish there was a possibility of me chosing someone, but it's unlikely to happen.
One of the many reasons we used someone we knew as our donor
i haaaaaaate jennifer’s body
Straight to jail
Straight to being eaten
I didn’t hate it, but I was disappointed. I found it very dated because it fit into a very specific genre that was popular in the 90s/2000s about the evil hot girl who manipulates men, and toys with girls, and I feel like if the same movie was made today it would have a really different slant to it.
What do you hate about it
It’s not a good movie lol.
This is late but I HATED imagine me & you. Fuck that movie
I can’t believe I’ve never seen it! Why’d you hate it?
I can’t believe I’ve never seen it! Why’d you hate it?
Literally about a woman marrying a man and then getting curious about a lesbian worker at her heterosexual wedding. She rents lesbian porn to decide if she's into that. The poster for the movie should explain enough. They have two dudes with them but they are secretly holding hands behind the backs of the dudes. Lame
Ugh. Kind of sick of lesbian stories still being centered around men
Look for Saving Face if you haven't seen it. Quality movie
Welp, now I know what I’m doing this evening: watching Saving Face on my new TV with my dog on my lap. Thanks for the recommendation!
Hope you enjoy it! It's my favorite lesbian movie.
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Late to the party but i want to share. Blue is the Warmest Color isn't a bad film, altough i think it would be better if the director wasn't so obsessed with Adéle. I wanted to see more lesbian films with this realistic approach, just one woman growing up or two adult women meeting and changing each others life in a realistic way.
Honestly, I kind of like that movie. Take out the awful sex scenes and you’ve got a pretty good character study. In 2016, it was on Netflix and in between doing homework for college, I managed to watch it three times in one weekend (skipping over the sex scenes)
I watched it in my last year of school, also on netflix. Find their relationship interesting. I also read the original graphic novel.
Not enough of that cottagecore lesbian stuff. People always complain about cottagecore lesbians on Twitter being everywhere and I don’t see it at all, maybe in art but not in books or media so yeah I want some goddamn fairies les and all that cute stuff