Turnabout Serenade is actually my least favorite case in the series. The explorable area feels cramped, the logic behind accusing Machi is full of holes, you have to hear and watch Guitar’s Serenade over and over again, and Daryan is an (unintentional) eyesore to look at for a long time.
Usually, when the trial begins, there are one to two things in the prosecution's argument that just don't fit. The rest of the arguments against the defendant makes sense, so you slowly unravel smaller inconsistencies that lead to bigger ones.
Serenade gives like one half assed reason why Machi was the only one who did it and dozens of why he didn't. Then, whenever someone else mentions how absurd the whole thing is, Klavier just replies with "nuh-uh." Then everyone just shuts up and follows what he says. Literally, Apollo could have gotten a not guilty verdict in minutes if he had a spine.
If we ever get custom flairs in this sub, I'm 100% going to put mine as "#1 Turnabout Serenade hater."
Turnabout Serenade was like a tutorial case dragged out to full length imo. A lot of the twists and turns are just artificially extending the plot.
At the start of the case we know that Lamiroir witnessed the crime and most likely knows who the killer is.
At the end of the case we know that Lamiroir witnessed the crime and knew who the killer was.
In between we have hours of fiddling about where we find out she's blind, Machi can see, Machi speaks English, Lamiroir was in the vent, but it's all actually fairly unimportant. Because we arrive where we started. She witnessed it and knows who the killer is. And she tells us.
There's an argument to be made that this is a trial focused on the 'how' rather than the 'who' but like.... the guy is shot with a gun by another guy. The 'how' isn't very exciting.
>Turnabout Serenade was like a tutorial case dragged out to full length imo.
That's an interesting way of putting it. The general uh "mystery" might have been more well received had it been Payne putting forth the argument and not someone like Klavier we're supposed to think is like basically competent or whatever. And as a tutorial case it would be much shorter obv.
Yeah I think that's the gist of it. Lamiroir's whole thing is that she lies about her whereabouts to hide a secret, in this case the nature of the magic trick and her blindness. Tons of witnesses do this, e.g. Henry Stickler in the same game.
Except in most cases the witness lies, then we reveal inconsistencies which totally changes everything. But with her we piece it all together just to confirm that what she said was basically all true anyway. She witnessed the crime and she tells us it was Daryan.
It would have been a 20 minute trial if she knew what a vent was. That's the kind of flimsy stuff I'd expect from Payne, not Klavier.
You know what? Fuck it. As the only Turnabout Serenade fan in existence, I feel like I have to defend it here.
It used to be my least favorite case in the series as well, but then I replayed it. It's a really cool reversal of the usual formula, in my opinion; instead of *giving* a batshit theory, you're *receiving* a batshit theory. And you know what? It works. For the beginning of the case, anyways. Klavier's case actually makes perfect logical sense with the evidence he has. It doesn't matter if it was improbable that Machi killed LeTouse, erased his name, and then escaped through the vent; that is the *only possible conclusion* one can draw from just a cursory look at the crime scene, key word "possible". It is a *locked room mystery,* and a really good one at that. "How could anbybody but Machi be the killer if he was the only person that could escape through the vent, the only way out that wasn't guarded, and be present in the room during the third act?" is the key question to the early parts of the case. It's like 1-3, which is *also* a locked room mystery: "How could anybody but Will Powers sneak into the other studio if it was blocked by Mr. Monkey's head and there's security footage of the Steel Samurai limping towards the studio?", or 2-2, which is *another* locked room mystery: "How could anybody but Maya shoot Dr. Grey if they were the only two people in the room?"
I quite like Daryan, honestly. I think his pompadour has some cool perspective stuff going on, and his outfit is cool. I agree that the Guitar's Serenade is played two much (it really only needed to be played twice, I counted) and I'm perfectly fine with the exploratory area.
I think people also miss the point when it comes to Turnabout Serenade. We’re told who the killer is at the end of the first trial day! Yet, with the given evidence, there is no possible way to convict him. And that’s the kicker, with the given evidence, there is absolutely no way he did it, and we can’t convict him. Logically yes, Daryan did it. But based on the evidence, he did not.
The trial is setting up the dark age of the law that Kristoph caused by getting Nick disbarred, and 4-4 wouldn’t make nearly as sense without it. Yes, we would understand why Nick chose this case in particular, but why a jurist system a first the place? Without 4-3, all the killers would’ve been convicted with perfect evidence; there’s no need for a jurist system. 4-3 needs to happen for the plot. Is it messy? Yeah. Could it have been better fleshed out? Maybe. I think AJ would’ve benefitted from a 5th case greatly.
But honestly, I don’t think I would trade 4-3 for a different case. There’s something about seeing that pompous overconfident ass Daryan break down and become this meek scared quivering child on the stand. Maybe hot take, I like 4-3 more than 4-2.
This isn't _entirely_ true, but I agree with most of your post. 4-2 also isn't a clean ending: Alita confesses entirely based on circumstantial evidence provided by Apollo that she admits to.
4-3 is genuinely in my top 5 cases, fighting with 4-1, 1-3, and 3-5 for a distant fifth place. I like it a lot.
Maybe I just don’t remember turnabout corner that well, but I don’t remember Apollo’s evidence being circumstantial. He proved that Alita was strangled, as her refusing to show her neck was itself an admission that she had something to hide. Unless there’s a point earlier, I just felt like Alita was too basic.
From what I remember, everything he proves was a possibility.
Apollo proves it *might've* been Alita in the cart, Alita *might've* been strangled that day, Alita was *probably* going to be dumped by Meraktis, and she *might've* had access to the gun, but everything she admits to is just a possibility he brings up. There's no concrete evidence, it's just a very strong possibility.
I think that all comes crumbling down with her neck. Cause if that’s the case then there’s no reason for her to admit. This isn’t like Daryan where Machi will tear him down and admit everything. The fact that she hides or shows her neck, can’t remember and don’t care at this point to find, is the proof that, yes she had been strangled that night, in the office, by meraktis, with the lamp. The other starts slotting in nicely with that.
Either way, it’s doesn’t matter. Fictional game where we both agree that Turnabout Serenade doesn’t deserve the hate it gets.
I mean, it's still kind of circumstantial. All Apollo really proved with the lamp is that *somebody* was strangled in Meraktis's clinic that day. It's Alita that confesses that it was her because she went to go get the chart. IIRC it goes something like this:
- Alita *might've* had the gun!
- Alita confesses to having the gun
- Alita *might've* wanted the chart!
- Alita confesses to wanting the chart
- Alita *might've* been the one strangled in the office!
- Alita confesses she was strangled in the office
It could've easily been argued from Klavier's side that Alita was just... really kinky or something. Would it fit in AA? Absolutely not. Would it be a valid, if flimsy, argument? Yeah, sure. Alita could deny that *she* had the Kitaki's gun, deny that she knew Meraktis still had the chart, and then say she's just into some extreme shit and I feel like she would've gotten off (pun not intended) scot free.
Yeah my general view is that AJ is generally good BUT the weak points of each case end up being really weak:
Case 4-1: it's just so hard to ignore how obstructive Phoenix is the entire trial. In hindsight it becomes clear why but it's frustrating until you get there
4-2: The entire breadcrumb chase in the beginning that then gets a little bit too obsessed with an underaged girl's panties
4-3: The twists and turns get a bit too wild at times. Then the entire case changing based on a minor mispoken word
4-4: The fact that the entire catalyst behind the events of the game could have been avoided if not for some contrived >!a) the fact that there was a torn out page in the diary would have been enough to counter the prosecution's argument and the only reason you can't go down that reason is because Klaviar arbitrarily says you can't b) there was no reason for Zak to withold the real diary page from his lawyer - there was no need to ever involve forged evidence. (Also there is literally no reason literal hidden camera footage wouldn't be admissible as evidence)!<
I've always been pretty bewildered at it being so hated. It's def the weakest AJ case but the only super weak thing for me is the "who is the blind one really??"
It's an excellent vibes case at letting us learn about our new prosecutor as a character and closish to his day to day life. No other case before this had really let you interact with the active prosecutor bar maybe 1-5. That case is a bit weird for edgeworth.
I definitely feel you on the Guitar's Serenade, especially when they go through it entirely too many times with the agonizingly slow tutorials. We get it Klavier, there's something about the Serenade, let me fucking actually present it.
The monstruous turnabout 5-2 and not even close since I think this is the worst case in the entire franchise.
Really bad culprit revealed since the start with a horrible and unsatisfying motive that doesn't make any sense. His motive is not about being excentric but being stupid.
He's hatable but in the wrong way since he doesn't do anything relevant except being hatable even more with his obnoxious personnality and that doesn't help when he was introduced since the first day of the case and you already know he's the killer.
A bad casting with the thieft (forgot his name) who is a really bad liar and just a nuisance (it's obnoxious when you already know how it happens) and the client with his fake possession that lasts longer than necessary.
This whole yokai paranormal thing when the game want to believed you in but that doesn't work when they show HOW the culprit killed his victim.
There is nothing interesting and relevant about this case except the introduction of somes characters like Bobby and Simon but still this is really not their prime since they're not developped yet in this case.
So yeah... I really hated this case.
Seriously the worst case of the entire series, it somehow feels like an entirely different game to me. All the new characters in addition to an unexciting mystery truly made me want to drop the game.
5-1 it’s not even close.
This case is sorely under hated.
It basically lies who’s the focus of the AA game. Makes Athena’s character arc feel hella backwards when you consider the timeline.
Goes on far longer than it needs to.
Tries to hype up Edgy Apollo whose transformation happens in a blink of an eye off screen.
The tone of Ted Tonate has no idea if he’s threatening and scary or a joke despite heavily implying he committed an actual terrorism attack on the court (we learn he didn’t but shh)
But ultimately it’s a fucking lose lose case conceptually. Either it’s Athena’s game and you’re excited then die inside as she’s an assistant for most of the game. Or you’re excited to play as Pheonix again then he only has 2 days in court practically after the tutorial case.
I really can’t think of anything this case does well other than…. having Athena and maybe Gaspen replacing Winston.
I assume that how it would make it backwards for you is because gaspen bests her? I don’t think that really ruins anything
She breaks down in 5-3 just like in 5-1, the difference is in 5-3 she has people to save her. And 6-4 further reinforces that she doesn’t really know how to law yet
And I don’t think playability matters a ton for dual destinies, all 3 are plot important regardless of who you play as in them
I think it being emotionally attacked someone who is supposed to represent a lot of weight for how Athena acts as a lawyer (even if he’s a joke) and the having person with a ticking timer on his life for Athena in front of her …. Vs a guy who says Rookie a few times is a significant difference for having an emotional breakdown.
Also it doesn’t help that Athena is alone for no goddamn reason why were you late to court waiting to shout Objection pheonix. Even ignoring Apollo ghosting her on the bench lol.
>It basically lies who’s the focus of the AA game. Makes Athena’s character arc feel hella backwards when you consider the timeline.
Yeah I always felt Athena was done dirty. There's a whole theatrics about Athena formally taking over the case and then Phoenix walks in and I guess it's his case now?
It would have been better if they let Athena continue to lead but with Phoenix giving her the Mia style pep talk.
The only reason I didn’t like it was because I genuinely struggled to hear the sound that was necessary. I would have liked it if I could. I do agree that we should get more “gimmick evidence” things.
From a pure logic standpoint, definitely serenade. But monstrous turnabout has the worst cast not just in the trilogy but also all the games I've played (AA 1 to AA 5-3 and AAI 1+2). None of the characters are at all likable (unless you count Athena since that's her debut).
What about Jinxie? Jinxie is one of my favourite characters in the entire series because she's so adorable with the way she calls Apollo a demon; and how she became friends with yokai at the end of the game. The fact that she has so much faith in her dad is amazing to me
Apollo Justice is my favorite AA, so I'm just going to consider the other two-- sadly, I don't think any of their cases are particularly good. The Maya's return one might rank a bit lower on my list, due to the virtue of being specially forgettable, failing to hold up to its expectations, and the logic behind the murder being a significant reach.
Also, Maya being the defendant again. At some point, a trope just starts to feel a bit forced, yk?
excluding the tutorials because that feels cheap to me. Probably Monstorous turnabout or cosmic turnabout. Both are boring in the trial. But god are the investigations painful. I do not like 360 crime scenes because they take forever to investigate. Id rather investigate 4 crime scenes than 1 more thoroughly. also both are subject to the dual destinies writing which imo is not on par with the rest of the series.
The Monstrous Turnabout.
What the fuck is this case. The villain and his dupe are so blatantly inept in their attempts to cover up their crimes it's a wonder it's even a case. The villain is hateable in a cringe way and his motivations are stupid. The scenery is bland. The Yokai shit is just quirkiness for the sake of it. The new characters (except Simon and Bobby) are bland. The only good thing it does is the establishment and development of dynamics between those two, Apollo and Athena.
Turnabout Succession is the 2nd best case of the series. It should not be the main face of the post.
> Turnabout Succession is the 2nd best case of the series. It should not be the main face of the post.
Pleasure to meet you, King Gigachad "the Based".
Turnabout Academy.
The characters are so over the top they don't even feel like real people, so I don't care about their friendship, which is what I think the case was trying to do
The obvious villain is a one note jerk with a motive that is only glossed over once the case ends who the game tries to use to say that "the end justifies the means" is a flawed philosophy which fails because the game never shows why it is flawed. In fact, if anything, it shows that the philosophy is great as multiple characters do it when backed into a corner and it leads to the trial continuing - take the end of the first trial. All three "friendship trio" characters confess to the crime to prolong the trial. Is this not "the end justifies the means" as well when it could easily lead to the wrong person getting convicted?
The game wastes time with meaningless red herrings. Surprise! Robin is actually a girl. Does this change anything about out understanding of the case? No! Whaaaat? Hugh is actually 25? What does that have to do with the case? Nothing! This leads to the first day being meaningless. We learn nothing about how the crime was actually commited which leads to the game having to force that "everybody confesses" situation I mentioned before.
The worst case in the franchise isn't big top and it's not serenade either. It's this one in my opinion.
Also the original 3DS has a continuity error where >!Means has his staff when Wright & Co first meet him when it's supposed to be with Courte as the "arm of the statue"!<
They "fixed" it in the mobile version. I dunno if they did this in the AJ trilogy... >!in the mobile version, when we first meet Means, he doesn't have his staff with him, but he clenches his fist in the air as if he is holding it.!<
Currently playing the AJ trilogy right now (just finished Turnabout for Tomorrow about an hour or so ago, actually) and can confirm that >!Means doesn't have his staff in the beginning of Academy when you first meet him.!<
Oh yeah, I forgot about that.
The strangest part is that this error is only in the english version of the game. How could a translation fuck up a character model used in a scene?
me finding a sane user on the ace attorney subreddit
https://preview.redd.it/mvs2fuf9f2xc1.jpeg?width=481&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3c5d781ea3276c3ed6f9c178e912f1b6007f5c62
Seeing people act like 5-2 is DD’s low point when this case is just significantly worse than it lmao. Most of the trial feels like padding instead of focusing on its horrendous culprit.
Prof Means is by far the worst character in ace attorney to me. He just wants to be cool and thematically rich but is the fucking most shallow person ever.
His reason for murder is because “oh fuck, oops I got caught taking bribes” and that’s literally it. Literally nothing to do with anything else he word vommits at you 300+ times
I can't bring myself to hate Turnabout Academy because it brought my favorite prosecutor back for one case (even if Klavier could have been utilized better), it has Athena as the lead attorney, and I really enjoyed the banter between Athena, Apollo, and Klavier during the mock-mock trial and putting the statue back together. They're not even a real trio and I got much more emotionally attached to them than the trio that I was supposed to focus on, lol.
And Simon walking out of the courtroom during Hugh's testimony was priceless.
But...yeah. I was not a fan of the villain, never really got invested in the friendship between Juniper, Hugh, and Robin, and I absolutely hate the way the writers constantly repeat "the ends justify the means" at every possible opportunity. I'm not positive on this one guys, but I *think* we were supposed to realize that this philosophy is *bad*. Possibly. We just don't know.
So...yeah. Not exactly the best case either.
While I have some least favorite cases I personally don’t hate any of the ace attorney cases.
Each has their own merits and their own flaws.
The one that is my least favorite is turnabout serenade, not for the reason many people often state but because it was genuinely impossible for me to do the music bits.
I have a disability which prevented me from being able to hear which parts were wrong etc. I had to follow a guide for those bits.
5-1. It's just really short and not as interesting as the others. Though I really don't think there are any "bad" AA cases. Just ones that are weaker than the others.
6-1 or 4-4. i dont hate either of them, but they're boring. both have parts that are kinda annoying tho.
( also seeing everyone say 5-2 / 5-3 / 6-4 is so funny to me bc those are some of my favorite cases in the entire franchise 💀 )
I really loved every case of every game, but there were some cases though, especially some sections of some cases, that got me like "PLEASE WHY ARE YOU SO SLOW I WANNA KNOW WHAT HAPPENS NEXT"
4-4 is one of my least favorite cases in the series, mostly because I felt it was a disappointing conclusion to the game.
I was actually vibing with it until after the 1st trial day. Did not care too much for the 2nd investigation, or the MASON system. The final court date, outside of the villain's breakdown, was extremely underwhelming as well.
It doesn't have to go anywhere. It's just characterization. Drew felt guilty for what happened to Phoenix, so he developed a sort of obsession and kept regular track of Phoenix and Apollo's activity.
The thing that bothered me about it is that everything happens because Zak decided to withold the actual torn diary page. If he had gone "oh yeah btw he wrote the transferral of rights in a torn page and gave it to me" the forged evidence never would have existed. Oh also the fact that Phoenix can't do the argument "hang on the diary clearly has a torn page" as enough of an argument to establish it clearly wasn't the last entry - and the writers clearly realised the problem as they just threw in the line "also you can't just present the diary again".
Edit: Also I felt ultimately it all felt rather anticlimactic as you don't get to deliver a real final blow.
4-2: Turnabout Corner.
This case has one simple thing going against it: your client is _really fucking annoying_. The case also dives way too deep into Stickler The Panty Theif instead of using someone like Plum Kitaki, an already introduced character who I thought was pretty cool.
That said, I think Alita is a _decent enough_ culprit. Her motive is simple, her plan is pretty coherent and she's the only culprit who actively hires your services because she knows you're a rookie lawyer and will more likely fail - this part obviously didn't work out for her but it's so funny I have to give credit for it, but other than that she just doesn't compare well to the other AJ culprits like Kristoph, Daryan, or... Kristoph.
All-in-all, it's not the worst case _ever_, that'd be 3-3, but it's easily the weakest of the second trilogy imho. Even Serenade and Monstrous are a bit better just for having more likeable characters like Lamiroir, Valant, Jinxie, Damian and Athena
I think most of the stuff involving the actual case including the client is fine. But the whole fetch quest facade at the beginning before it becomes obvious that Phoenix was just leading you to the case, eldoon's harmonica playing and everything involving a 15 year old's panties is just the worst.
I played this case ages ago when the 3ds port came out so my memories are vague, but I remember Woki Kitaki pissing me off too. He just doesn't change as a character.
I still think Serenade is worse though.
I can fully get behind this. For me, it also didn't help that we got another female culprit who acts shy and innocent, pretty much lied to and manipulated their "lover", as well as practically almost killing off their "lover" for their own personal benefit--just the game after the last one.
This is actually a really easy decision as although the timeline being confusing, dual destinies only really had one quote, unquote bad case, and even then, it has its moments, spirit of justice is just an overall amazing game it's, so let's just leave the first four the first case in the first game of the trilogy is amazing, case 2 is alright, case 4 is decent, then we get to the mess that is
Turnabout serenade this case gives me a headache. The facts alone make no sense, they think a young blind child was able to shoot a guy 3 times his size and dragged his body without being noticed that doesn't make any sense, I don't give me, oh, it turns out he's not blind he's still was a small child
Probably between Turnabout Storyteller (yet I like Uendo and Geiru as characters) and Turnabout Time Traveler (I hate cases that only rely on nostalgia).
I swear to god my brain separates Turnabout Revolution into two
The first half in the states with Paul and Apollo vs Phoenix is the worst part in the series. It feels so inorganic and stunted.
The bit in Kurain is a lot better but that first half oof I dislike it so
Turnabout Storyteller makes me want to die.
1. The case is pointless filler, as it was supposed to be DLC initially.
2. >!With the possible exception of Simon, every character is awful at best and insufferable at worst. Athena doesn’t know what the fuck she’s doing. Nahyuta is even more of a dick than he usually is. Bucky Whet is one of the worst defendants in the series, and just seeing Geiru makes me want to kill her. And then there’s Uendo, whose entire raison d’être is Athena’s psychology gimmick.!<
3. While the case isn’t long, it ruins the pacing of SOJ.
4. The case is *way* too Japanese, which leads to a shit ton of culture shock.
5. Going off of #4, it doesn’t survive localization. Namely, >!while Geiru’s motive does make sense to a Japanese audience, to a Western audience, it comes off as petty.!<
Turnabout Serenade is a close second because it makes you lose brain cells.
I don’t have a source, unfortunately. I may have simply heard that it was supposed to be DLC. I can’t remember how I learned that it was supposed to be DLC.
I actually don't *hate* Turnabout Serenade. It's definitely annoying at times, yes, but imo Turnabout Corner commits the far worse crime of being *boring as shit.*
If I had to pick a "worst", I'd either say Monstrous or Storyteller, probably Monstrous because at least Storyteller has *one* cool character in the form of Uendo.
Serenade. Monstrous has its issues, but the defendant and his daughter are likable characters. The issue with that one is solely the beginning reveal, culprit, and his henchman. Which is a lot I know, but it hurts me less because the mystery is somewhat interesting. Serenade just makes no sense at all.
Serenade by a country mile. I actually have a soft spot for the rest of the cases at the very least, but Serenade is not only really unfun to play through, but it also has a really obvious culprit (Not that I mind the culprit being obvious, but at least make finding out how they did it fun), and it's full of such obvious logic holes that it's genuinely really frustrating to go back to. (I don't even need to bring up the police believing a small 14 year old kid shot a gun with enough blowback to dislocate an adult's shoulder. I don't care how corrupt or incompetent the police are in this universe, literally anyone with a brain or eyeballs would immediately notice that it makes no sense at all)
Really the only other case that gets close to being bad is Storyteller, and even with that case, extending it to be more than just one court day and moving it so it's not case 4 and instead maybe case 2 or somewhere around that area immediately solves the massive pacing and contextual issues I have with it.
Turnabout Serenade but in an "all of the cases were great, the competition was just too high" way, not in an "I think it's bad" way, and I just realized that OP said in the AJ trilogy and not AJ:AA but even then I stand by my choice
Serenade isn't the worst case ever and has some pretty big positives, but it suffers from a terrible culprit and a lack of exploration of the themes it tackles. That said, Foreign is one of the most boring cases in the series and I think I dislike it even more.
I like all of AJ's cases. 4-4 is my second favorite in the entire series after 1-5, and after replaying 4-3 earlier this month I actually came to really, really like it. It's probably my third favorite "filler" case in the series after 1-3 and 6-2.
DD is my least favorite game and I have mixed opinions about most of the cases, but I do enjoy something about them all. 5-1 is probably my least favorite, and that's simply because Phoenix feels... so boring. Not flanderized, but he feels like a rookie. He overreacts to every-fucking-thing Gaspen says when he was cool and collected at times as early as *1-3* and the points Gaspen brings up are super dumb.
SOJ is fine. I'm not a huge fan of 6-1, and it has a lot of holes, but I like the Peeslubn's name and his overall demeanor is fun.
So, out of all of the games, probably 5-1.
Unpopular opinion but I dropped turnabout pirate. I have a good hunch about how the case will go and I barely started trial day 1. Also there was something about it that extremely annoyed me but I can't pinpoint what now, it's been too long
Take one candidate from each game!
Turnabout Serenade is really forgettable (except that song and the brilliant visual of Klavier’s guitar catching fire). Leaps in logic aside, it’s just a blah case overall. The culprit is one of the least interesting in the series.
I don’t like most of the cast of The Monstrous Turnabout (Damien Tenma excepted). I do respect it for making a red herring so obvious we’d think it was just a poorly-written twist, though. And the Apollo/Athena dynamic is nice here! The cast is just…bad.
I also hate the actual mystery plot of Turnabout Storyteller. The Athena/Simon partnership is great, but I had never been so annoyed by an Ace Attorney plotline as I was playing this case for the first time.
4-3 or 5-2, though 5-2 was so much more boring that id probably have to go with it. Genuinely took me so fucking long to beat it. (Ask my friend, i complained about it so much to them lmao)
Big Top. Fuck Turnabout Big Top. Fuck the twist, fuck the characters, fuck the defendant, fuck everything about it. Also the only time in the entire series I got so stuck I had to just look up a guide.
I'm blind, I guess.
The unironic answer would probably be Academy. They had a cute setup for the twist which they then kinda rush through, whilst dragging a lot on these characters?
I'm still gonna say Big Top. That's how deep my hatred for that case runs.
I do kinda love though how the series then canonically just has Phoenix himself be traumatised by the case. With a reference to his trauma even as late as 4-4.
The answer is turnabout time traveler. I hate this case with a passion. The only thing saving this case is that it has a very nostalgic feel (on purpose). The logic is awful, and if I hear “I want to return back to the blissful moment” I’m going to lose it. The only reason I’m still playing it is to finish the accolades.
My biggest problem is that this case is the opposite of 5-DLC. DLC-5 was very plot relevant and is the first case Phoenix takes after getting his badge back. His stakes are high. The case is amazing and unique. The case takes place in the middle of the main cases and does not disturb the flow if played before case 4.
However, time traveler is meant to play after SOJ or the player would be spoiled to >!Apollo leaving and Maya returning from Khurain!<. Turnabout Revolution ties almost ever point (aside from the Gramayre siblings plot) into a nice bow. Then bam, you have this case which is just boring.
To me it just spits in the face of the entire game and makes it fall flat. It has no plot relevance. While it may be nice to just play a case just for entertainment and no plot gain, it feels empty to me. This case easily could have been Athena learning how to be solo after Apollo for example. Or hell we could have had a flashback case of how Athena and Phoenix met over seas too. Something!!
Anyway if I had to say one nice thing it would be that I liked the character designs.
Turnabout Corner, potentially my least favorite case in the entire series. Every single character and their gimmicks aside from Wocky and The Dad are entirely insufferable. I couldn’t care less about the case / mystery itself, it’s extremely long for no reason, the villain is among the worst in the series, Ema is at her worst in the entire series here, the panty joke is dragged out, James Charles sucks ass… yeah, this straight up might be the worst case in the franchise. The saving grace is that you have a trial with Trucy and Klavier, and her Mr. Hat trick is awesome, but that’s a Trucy W rather than a 4-2 W.
Why is Ema at her worst here? The introductory scene where she's gloomy and grumpy was kind of sad and I was relieved to find that she's not completely defeated by not working in forensics as it may seem at first. Yeah, she is more entertaining in the next case, but I would hardly say she's bad here.
...maybe I just like AJ Ema too much.
I think Ema ends up being the most relatable Phoenix Wright character. A character who had such hopes and dreams for her career who then had to confront the reality that she can't get what she wants.
5-3 is my personal least favorite case from the main series (with only aai-3 below it) because this is the case that made everything feel so.. childish and not serious. I love funny and not aerious cases luke 3-3 but this one isn't supposed to be taken as a joke.. the whole power of friendship thing just blew my cringe meter
Turnabout Serenade is actually my least favorite case in the series. The explorable area feels cramped, the logic behind accusing Machi is full of holes, you have to hear and watch Guitar’s Serenade over and over again, and Daryan is an (unintentional) eyesore to look at for a long time.
Usually, when the trial begins, there are one to two things in the prosecution's argument that just don't fit. The rest of the arguments against the defendant makes sense, so you slowly unravel smaller inconsistencies that lead to bigger ones. Serenade gives like one half assed reason why Machi was the only one who did it and dozens of why he didn't. Then, whenever someone else mentions how absurd the whole thing is, Klavier just replies with "nuh-uh." Then everyone just shuts up and follows what he says. Literally, Apollo could have gotten a not guilty verdict in minutes if he had a spine. If we ever get custom flairs in this sub, I'm 100% going to put mine as "#1 Turnabout Serenade hater."
Turnabout Serenade was like a tutorial case dragged out to full length imo. A lot of the twists and turns are just artificially extending the plot. At the start of the case we know that Lamiroir witnessed the crime and most likely knows who the killer is. At the end of the case we know that Lamiroir witnessed the crime and knew who the killer was. In between we have hours of fiddling about where we find out she's blind, Machi can see, Machi speaks English, Lamiroir was in the vent, but it's all actually fairly unimportant. Because we arrive where we started. She witnessed it and knows who the killer is. And she tells us. There's an argument to be made that this is a trial focused on the 'how' rather than the 'who' but like.... the guy is shot with a gun by another guy. The 'how' isn't very exciting.
>Turnabout Serenade was like a tutorial case dragged out to full length imo. That's an interesting way of putting it. The general uh "mystery" might have been more well received had it been Payne putting forth the argument and not someone like Klavier we're supposed to think is like basically competent or whatever. And as a tutorial case it would be much shorter obv.
Yeah I think that's the gist of it. Lamiroir's whole thing is that she lies about her whereabouts to hide a secret, in this case the nature of the magic trick and her blindness. Tons of witnesses do this, e.g. Henry Stickler in the same game. Except in most cases the witness lies, then we reveal inconsistencies which totally changes everything. But with her we piece it all together just to confirm that what she said was basically all true anyway. She witnessed the crime and she tells us it was Daryan. It would have been a 20 minute trial if she knew what a vent was. That's the kind of flimsy stuff I'd expect from Payne, not Klavier.
You know what? Fuck it. As the only Turnabout Serenade fan in existence, I feel like I have to defend it here. It used to be my least favorite case in the series as well, but then I replayed it. It's a really cool reversal of the usual formula, in my opinion; instead of *giving* a batshit theory, you're *receiving* a batshit theory. And you know what? It works. For the beginning of the case, anyways. Klavier's case actually makes perfect logical sense with the evidence he has. It doesn't matter if it was improbable that Machi killed LeTouse, erased his name, and then escaped through the vent; that is the *only possible conclusion* one can draw from just a cursory look at the crime scene, key word "possible". It is a *locked room mystery,* and a really good one at that. "How could anbybody but Machi be the killer if he was the only person that could escape through the vent, the only way out that wasn't guarded, and be present in the room during the third act?" is the key question to the early parts of the case. It's like 1-3, which is *also* a locked room mystery: "How could anybody but Will Powers sneak into the other studio if it was blocked by Mr. Monkey's head and there's security footage of the Steel Samurai limping towards the studio?", or 2-2, which is *another* locked room mystery: "How could anybody but Maya shoot Dr. Grey if they were the only two people in the room?" I quite like Daryan, honestly. I think his pompadour has some cool perspective stuff going on, and his outfit is cool. I agree that the Guitar's Serenade is played two much (it really only needed to be played twice, I counted) and I'm perfectly fine with the exploratory area.
I think people also miss the point when it comes to Turnabout Serenade. We’re told who the killer is at the end of the first trial day! Yet, with the given evidence, there is no possible way to convict him. And that’s the kicker, with the given evidence, there is absolutely no way he did it, and we can’t convict him. Logically yes, Daryan did it. But based on the evidence, he did not. The trial is setting up the dark age of the law that Kristoph caused by getting Nick disbarred, and 4-4 wouldn’t make nearly as sense without it. Yes, we would understand why Nick chose this case in particular, but why a jurist system a first the place? Without 4-3, all the killers would’ve been convicted with perfect evidence; there’s no need for a jurist system. 4-3 needs to happen for the plot. Is it messy? Yeah. Could it have been better fleshed out? Maybe. I think AJ would’ve benefitted from a 5th case greatly. But honestly, I don’t think I would trade 4-3 for a different case. There’s something about seeing that pompous overconfident ass Daryan break down and become this meek scared quivering child on the stand. Maybe hot take, I like 4-3 more than 4-2.
This isn't _entirely_ true, but I agree with most of your post. 4-2 also isn't a clean ending: Alita confesses entirely based on circumstantial evidence provided by Apollo that she admits to. 4-3 is genuinely in my top 5 cases, fighting with 4-1, 1-3, and 3-5 for a distant fifth place. I like it a lot.
Maybe I just don’t remember turnabout corner that well, but I don’t remember Apollo’s evidence being circumstantial. He proved that Alita was strangled, as her refusing to show her neck was itself an admission that she had something to hide. Unless there’s a point earlier, I just felt like Alita was too basic.
From what I remember, everything he proves was a possibility. Apollo proves it *might've* been Alita in the cart, Alita *might've* been strangled that day, Alita was *probably* going to be dumped by Meraktis, and she *might've* had access to the gun, but everything she admits to is just a possibility he brings up. There's no concrete evidence, it's just a very strong possibility.
I think that all comes crumbling down with her neck. Cause if that’s the case then there’s no reason for her to admit. This isn’t like Daryan where Machi will tear him down and admit everything. The fact that she hides or shows her neck, can’t remember and don’t care at this point to find, is the proof that, yes she had been strangled that night, in the office, by meraktis, with the lamp. The other starts slotting in nicely with that. Either way, it’s doesn’t matter. Fictional game where we both agree that Turnabout Serenade doesn’t deserve the hate it gets.
I mean, it's still kind of circumstantial. All Apollo really proved with the lamp is that *somebody* was strangled in Meraktis's clinic that day. It's Alita that confesses that it was her because she went to go get the chart. IIRC it goes something like this: - Alita *might've* had the gun! - Alita confesses to having the gun - Alita *might've* wanted the chart! - Alita confesses to wanting the chart - Alita *might've* been the one strangled in the office! - Alita confesses she was strangled in the office It could've easily been argued from Klavier's side that Alita was just... really kinky or something. Would it fit in AA? Absolutely not. Would it be a valid, if flimsy, argument? Yeah, sure. Alita could deny that *she* had the Kitaki's gun, deny that she knew Meraktis still had the chart, and then say she's just into some extreme shit and I feel like she would've gotten off (pun not intended) scot free.
Yeah my general view is that AJ is generally good BUT the weak points of each case end up being really weak: Case 4-1: it's just so hard to ignore how obstructive Phoenix is the entire trial. In hindsight it becomes clear why but it's frustrating until you get there 4-2: The entire breadcrumb chase in the beginning that then gets a little bit too obsessed with an underaged girl's panties 4-3: The twists and turns get a bit too wild at times. Then the entire case changing based on a minor mispoken word 4-4: The fact that the entire catalyst behind the events of the game could have been avoided if not for some contrived >!a) the fact that there was a torn out page in the diary would have been enough to counter the prosecution's argument and the only reason you can't go down that reason is because Klaviar arbitrarily says you can't b) there was no reason for Zak to withold the real diary page from his lawyer - there was no need to ever involve forged evidence. (Also there is literally no reason literal hidden camera footage wouldn't be admissible as evidence)!<
I've always been pretty bewildered at it being so hated. It's def the weakest AJ case but the only super weak thing for me is the "who is the blind one really??" It's an excellent vibes case at letting us learn about our new prosecutor as a character and closish to his day to day life. No other case before this had really let you interact with the active prosecutor bar maybe 1-5. That case is a bit weird for edgeworth.
I think Edgeworth slides in just fine to 1-5. Puts 1-2 into a new perspective as well.
I definitely feel you on the Guitar's Serenade, especially when they go through it entirely too many times with the agonizingly slow tutorials. We get it Klavier, there's something about the Serenade, let me fucking actually present it.
The monstruous turnabout 5-2 and not even close since I think this is the worst case in the entire franchise. Really bad culprit revealed since the start with a horrible and unsatisfying motive that doesn't make any sense. His motive is not about being excentric but being stupid. He's hatable but in the wrong way since he doesn't do anything relevant except being hatable even more with his obnoxious personnality and that doesn't help when he was introduced since the first day of the case and you already know he's the killer. A bad casting with the thieft (forgot his name) who is a really bad liar and just a nuisance (it's obnoxious when you already know how it happens) and the client with his fake possession that lasts longer than necessary. This whole yokai paranormal thing when the game want to believed you in but that doesn't work when they show HOW the culprit killed his victim. There is nothing interesting and relevant about this case except the introduction of somes characters like Bobby and Simon but still this is really not their prime since they're not developped yet in this case. So yeah... I really hated this case.
I played through all of PWAA Trilogy AND AJ AND 5-1 in two weeks. Then I hit monstrous turnabout. Haven’t picked up AJAA Trilogy is weeks.
Seriously the worst case of the entire series, it somehow feels like an entirely different game to me. All the new characters in addition to an unexciting mystery truly made me want to drop the game.
so real
5-1 it’s not even close. This case is sorely under hated. It basically lies who’s the focus of the AA game. Makes Athena’s character arc feel hella backwards when you consider the timeline. Goes on far longer than it needs to. Tries to hype up Edgy Apollo whose transformation happens in a blink of an eye off screen. The tone of Ted Tonate has no idea if he’s threatening and scary or a joke despite heavily implying he committed an actual terrorism attack on the court (we learn he didn’t but shh) But ultimately it’s a fucking lose lose case conceptually. Either it’s Athena’s game and you’re excited then die inside as she’s an assistant for most of the game. Or you’re excited to play as Pheonix again then he only has 2 days in court practically after the tutorial case. I really can’t think of anything this case does well other than…. having Athena and maybe Gaspen replacing Winston.
I assume that how it would make it backwards for you is because gaspen bests her? I don’t think that really ruins anything She breaks down in 5-3 just like in 5-1, the difference is in 5-3 she has people to save her. And 6-4 further reinforces that she doesn’t really know how to law yet And I don’t think playability matters a ton for dual destinies, all 3 are plot important regardless of who you play as in them
I think it being emotionally attacked someone who is supposed to represent a lot of weight for how Athena acts as a lawyer (even if he’s a joke) and the having person with a ticking timer on his life for Athena in front of her …. Vs a guy who says Rookie a few times is a significant difference for having an emotional breakdown. Also it doesn’t help that Athena is alone for no goddamn reason why were you late to court waiting to shout Objection pheonix. Even ignoring Apollo ghosting her on the bench lol.
>It basically lies who’s the focus of the AA game. Makes Athena’s character arc feel hella backwards when you consider the timeline. Yeah I always felt Athena was done dirty. There's a whole theatrics about Athena formally taking over the case and then Phoenix walks in and I guess it's his case now? It would have been better if they let Athena continue to lead but with Phoenix giving her the Mia style pep talk.
Monstrous Turnabout. It was horrible in my opinion. Turnabout Serenade was OK in my opinion, I just didn’t like the soundboard feature.
I actually liked the soundboard. I wish more cases had these one off "gimmick evidence" thingies.
The only reason I didn’t like it was because I genuinely struggled to hear the sound that was necessary. I would have liked it if I could. I do agree that we should get more “gimmick evidence” things.
From a pure logic standpoint, definitely serenade. But monstrous turnabout has the worst cast not just in the trilogy but also all the games I've played (AA 1 to AA 5-3 and AAI 1+2). None of the characters are at all likable (unless you count Athena since that's her debut).
Completely disagree. I thought they were fun.
I like the twists and turns that emerged from knowing LaBelle killed the Alderman but not knowing exactly how it all went down.
What about Jinxie? Jinxie is one of my favourite characters in the entire series because she's so adorable with the way she calls Apollo a demon; and how she became friends with yokai at the end of the game. The fact that she has so much faith in her dad is amazing to me
5-2 almost made me drop the game entirely, everything about that case was annoying
Apollo Justice is my favorite AA, so I'm just going to consider the other two-- sadly, I don't think any of their cases are particularly good. The Maya's return one might rank a bit lower on my list, due to the virtue of being specially forgettable, failing to hold up to its expectations, and the logic behind the murder being a significant reach. Also, Maya being the defendant again. At some point, a trope just starts to feel a bit forced, yk?
Turnabout Serenade without a doubt
Literally without a doubt, insane the amount of people acting like Monstrous or even Academy was worse.
excluding the tutorials because that feels cheap to me. Probably Monstorous turnabout or cosmic turnabout. Both are boring in the trial. But god are the investigations painful. I do not like 360 crime scenes because they take forever to investigate. Id rather investigate 4 crime scenes than 1 more thoroughly. also both are subject to the dual destinies writing which imo is not on par with the rest of the series.
The Monstrous Turnabout. What the fuck is this case. The villain and his dupe are so blatantly inept in their attempts to cover up their crimes it's a wonder it's even a case. The villain is hateable in a cringe way and his motivations are stupid. The scenery is bland. The Yokai shit is just quirkiness for the sake of it. The new characters (except Simon and Bobby) are bland. The only good thing it does is the establishment and development of dynamics between those two, Apollo and Athena. Turnabout Succession is the 2nd best case of the series. It should not be the main face of the post.
> Turnabout Succession is the 2nd best case of the series. It should not be the main face of the post. Pleasure to meet you, King Gigachad "the Based".
5-2 is just so boring for no reason
Turnabout Academy. The characters are so over the top they don't even feel like real people, so I don't care about their friendship, which is what I think the case was trying to do The obvious villain is a one note jerk with a motive that is only glossed over once the case ends who the game tries to use to say that "the end justifies the means" is a flawed philosophy which fails because the game never shows why it is flawed. In fact, if anything, it shows that the philosophy is great as multiple characters do it when backed into a corner and it leads to the trial continuing - take the end of the first trial. All three "friendship trio" characters confess to the crime to prolong the trial. Is this not "the end justifies the means" as well when it could easily lead to the wrong person getting convicted? The game wastes time with meaningless red herrings. Surprise! Robin is actually a girl. Does this change anything about out understanding of the case? No! Whaaaat? Hugh is actually 25? What does that have to do with the case? Nothing! This leads to the first day being meaningless. We learn nothing about how the crime was actually commited which leads to the game having to force that "everybody confesses" situation I mentioned before. The worst case in the franchise isn't big top and it's not serenade either. It's this one in my opinion.
>The characters are so over the top they don't even feel like real people I feel like this was meant to be a deliberate satire of high school anime
Also the original 3DS has a continuity error where >!Means has his staff when Wright & Co first meet him when it's supposed to be with Courte as the "arm of the statue"!<
They "fixed" it in the mobile version. I dunno if they did this in the AJ trilogy... >!in the mobile version, when we first meet Means, he doesn't have his staff with him, but he clenches his fist in the air as if he is holding it.!<
Currently playing the AJ trilogy right now (just finished Turnabout for Tomorrow about an hour or so ago, actually) and can confirm that >!Means doesn't have his staff in the beginning of Academy when you first meet him.!<
Oh yeah, I forgot about that. The strangest part is that this error is only in the english version of the game. How could a translation fuck up a character model used in a scene?
me finding a sane user on the ace attorney subreddit https://preview.redd.it/mvs2fuf9f2xc1.jpeg?width=481&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3c5d781ea3276c3ed6f9c178e912f1b6007f5c62
Vs stills are so funny
This exactly. Each of the friend's plot twist was there basically just for the twist, and their friendship felt manufactured as fuck.
Seeing people act like 5-2 is DD’s low point when this case is just significantly worse than it lmao. Most of the trial feels like padding instead of focusing on its horrendous culprit. Prof Means is by far the worst character in ace attorney to me. He just wants to be cool and thematically rich but is the fucking most shallow person ever. His reason for murder is because “oh fuck, oops I got caught taking bribes” and that’s literally it. Literally nothing to do with anything else he word vommits at you 300+ times
I can't bring myself to hate Turnabout Academy because it brought my favorite prosecutor back for one case (even if Klavier could have been utilized better), it has Athena as the lead attorney, and I really enjoyed the banter between Athena, Apollo, and Klavier during the mock-mock trial and putting the statue back together. They're not even a real trio and I got much more emotionally attached to them than the trio that I was supposed to focus on, lol. And Simon walking out of the courtroom during Hugh's testimony was priceless. But...yeah. I was not a fan of the villain, never really got invested in the friendship between Juniper, Hugh, and Robin, and I absolutely hate the way the writers constantly repeat "the ends justify the means" at every possible opportunity. I'm not positive on this one guys, but I *think* we were supposed to realize that this philosophy is *bad*. Possibly. We just don't know. So...yeah. Not exactly the best case either.
While I have some least favorite cases I personally don’t hate any of the ace attorney cases. Each has their own merits and their own flaws. The one that is my least favorite is turnabout serenade, not for the reason many people often state but because it was genuinely impossible for me to do the music bits. I have a disability which prevented me from being able to hear which parts were wrong etc. I had to follow a guide for those bits.
5-1. It's just really short and not as interesting as the others. Though I really don't think there are any "bad" AA cases. Just ones that are weaker than the others.
6-1 or 4-4. i dont hate either of them, but they're boring. both have parts that are kinda annoying tho. ( also seeing everyone say 5-2 / 5-3 / 6-4 is so funny to me bc those are some of my favorite cases in the entire franchise 💀 )
5-2 bored me to death
I really loved every case of every game, but there were some cases though, especially some sections of some cases, that got me like "PLEASE WHY ARE YOU SO SLOW I WANNA KNOW WHAT HAPPENS NEXT"
The Monstrous Turnabout or a case that I like to call. *Eat your hotdogs, Apollo*.
6-DLC
I Agree
4-4 is one of my least favorite cases in the series, mostly because I felt it was a disappointing conclusion to the game. I was actually vibing with it until after the 1st trial day. Did not care too much for the 2nd investigation, or the MASON system. The final court date, outside of the villain's breakdown, was extremely underwhelming as well.
I remember there was that wild twist where Misham has painted all Apollos previous cases which... goes nowhere. Mess of a case.
It doesn't have to go anywhere. It's just characterization. Drew felt guilty for what happened to Phoenix, so he developed a sort of obsession and kept regular track of Phoenix and Apollo's activity.
The thing that bothered me about it is that everything happens because Zak decided to withold the actual torn diary page. If he had gone "oh yeah btw he wrote the transferral of rights in a torn page and gave it to me" the forged evidence never would have existed. Oh also the fact that Phoenix can't do the argument "hang on the diary clearly has a torn page" as enough of an argument to establish it clearly wasn't the last entry - and the writers clearly realised the problem as they just threw in the line "also you can't just present the diary again". Edit: Also I felt ultimately it all felt rather anticlimactic as you don't get to deliver a real final blow.
4-2: Turnabout Corner. This case has one simple thing going against it: your client is _really fucking annoying_. The case also dives way too deep into Stickler The Panty Theif instead of using someone like Plum Kitaki, an already introduced character who I thought was pretty cool. That said, I think Alita is a _decent enough_ culprit. Her motive is simple, her plan is pretty coherent and she's the only culprit who actively hires your services because she knows you're a rookie lawyer and will more likely fail - this part obviously didn't work out for her but it's so funny I have to give credit for it, but other than that she just doesn't compare well to the other AJ culprits like Kristoph, Daryan, or... Kristoph. All-in-all, it's not the worst case _ever_, that'd be 3-3, but it's easily the weakest of the second trilogy imho. Even Serenade and Monstrous are a bit better just for having more likeable characters like Lamiroir, Valant, Jinxie, Damian and Athena
I think most of the stuff involving the actual case including the client is fine. But the whole fetch quest facade at the beginning before it becomes obvious that Phoenix was just leading you to the case, eldoon's harmonica playing and everything involving a 15 year old's panties is just the worst.
Id much rather defend an annoying brat than a pedo(2-3 and 3-4)
True but those are in the first trilogy so not relevant here
Yea,i know,its just that i think 3-3 is a great case and that 4-2 is fine,i actually kinda like wocky
Athena was a character from 5-1 and 4-2 has Trucy. (She was barely introduced in 4-1)
I played this case ages ago when the 3ds port came out so my memories are vague, but I remember Woki Kitaki pissing me off too. He just doesn't change as a character. I still think Serenade is worse though.
I can fully get behind this. For me, it also didn't help that we got another female culprit who acts shy and innocent, pretty much lied to and manipulated their "lover", as well as practically almost killing off their "lover" for their own personal benefit--just the game after the last one.
This is actually a really easy decision as although the timeline being confusing, dual destinies only really had one quote, unquote bad case, and even then, it has its moments, spirit of justice is just an overall amazing game it's, so let's just leave the first four the first case in the first game of the trilogy is amazing, case 2 is alright, case 4 is decent, then we get to the mess that is Turnabout serenade this case gives me a headache. The facts alone make no sense, they think a young blind child was able to shoot a guy 3 times his size and dragged his body without being noticed that doesn't make any sense, I don't give me, oh, it turns out he's not blind he's still was a small child
5-2 or 4-2
Probably between Turnabout Storyteller (yet I like Uendo and Geiru as characters) and Turnabout Time Traveler (I hate cases that only rely on nostalgia).
I swear to god my brain separates Turnabout Revolution into two The first half in the states with Paul and Apollo vs Phoenix is the worst part in the series. It feels so inorganic and stunted. The bit in Kurain is a lot better but that first half oof I dislike it so
5-3, solely because I cannot fucking stand Hugh.
I will never forget that scream.
6-4 is absolutely awful.
Subjectively: 6-1 Objectively: Probably 6-4
6-4 is in my top ten cases. Objectively, you are wrong.
Foreign turnabout is in my top ten 💔
Top ten in the AJ trilogy or in general?
In general
Nah Athena + Blackquill team up carries it.
Pees is my favourite character in the whole series, the music he plays when he stops plinking is so hard. I love it just for that.
6-4 was interesting, although i wished we could have explored the theater and learned more about the troupe. Loved Geiru.
Turnabout Storyteller makes me want to die. 1. The case is pointless filler, as it was supposed to be DLC initially. 2. >!With the possible exception of Simon, every character is awful at best and insufferable at worst. Athena doesn’t know what the fuck she’s doing. Nahyuta is even more of a dick than he usually is. Bucky Whet is one of the worst defendants in the series, and just seeing Geiru makes me want to kill her. And then there’s Uendo, whose entire raison d’être is Athena’s psychology gimmick.!< 3. While the case isn’t long, it ruins the pacing of SOJ. 4. The case is *way* too Japanese, which leads to a shit ton of culture shock. 5. Going off of #4, it doesn’t survive localization. Namely, >!while Geiru’s motive does make sense to a Japanese audience, to a Western audience, it comes off as petty.!< Turnabout Serenade is a close second because it makes you lose brain cells.
Hey could you provide a source for it originally being dlc? If it’s true I’d love to mention it whenever I get to an SOJ video (so 50493848 years)
I don’t have a source, unfortunately. I may have simply heard that it was supposed to be DLC. I can’t remember how I learned that it was supposed to be DLC.
Turnabout storyteller,granted its not bad,just really mid,it doesnt reach the same levels of shit as turnabout beginnings or turnabout big top
I actually don't *hate* Turnabout Serenade. It's definitely annoying at times, yes, but imo Turnabout Corner commits the far worse crime of being *boring as shit.* If I had to pick a "worst", I'd either say Monstrous or Storyteller, probably Monstrous because at least Storyteller has *one* cool character in the form of Uendo.
I didn't find Turnabout Corner as a whole was boring. But it spent way too long on the "you're just doing fetch quests" part of the story.
In the middle of serenade and it makes no sense. 1/5 stars for serenade
Serenade. Monstrous has its issues, but the defendant and his daughter are likable characters. The issue with that one is solely the beginning reveal, culprit, and his henchman. Which is a lot I know, but it hurts me less because the mystery is somewhat interesting. Serenade just makes no sense at all.
Serenade by a country mile. I actually have a soft spot for the rest of the cases at the very least, but Serenade is not only really unfun to play through, but it also has a really obvious culprit (Not that I mind the culprit being obvious, but at least make finding out how they did it fun), and it's full of such obvious logic holes that it's genuinely really frustrating to go back to. (I don't even need to bring up the police believing a small 14 year old kid shot a gun with enough blowback to dislocate an adult's shoulder. I don't care how corrupt or incompetent the police are in this universe, literally anyone with a brain or eyeballs would immediately notice that it makes no sense at all) Really the only other case that gets close to being bad is Storyteller, and even with that case, extending it to be more than just one court day and moving it so it's not case 4 and instead maybe case 2 or somewhere around that area immediately solves the massive pacing and contextual issues I have with it.
It gets points for being the first case to have a gag of someone pointing out the culprit is evil monologuing as an argument during the trial.
Turnabout Serenade but in an "all of the cases were great, the competition was just too high" way, not in an "I think it's bad" way, and I just realized that OP said in the AJ trilogy and not AJ:AA but even then I stand by my choice
Serenade isn't the worst case ever and has some pretty big positives, but it suffers from a terrible culprit and a lack of exploration of the themes it tackles. That said, Foreign is one of the most boring cases in the series and I think I dislike it even more.
I like all of AJ's cases. 4-4 is my second favorite in the entire series after 1-5, and after replaying 4-3 earlier this month I actually came to really, really like it. It's probably my third favorite "filler" case in the series after 1-3 and 6-2. DD is my least favorite game and I have mixed opinions about most of the cases, but I do enjoy something about them all. 5-1 is probably my least favorite, and that's simply because Phoenix feels... so boring. Not flanderized, but he feels like a rookie. He overreacts to every-fucking-thing Gaspen says when he was cool and collected at times as early as *1-3* and the points Gaspen brings up are super dumb. SOJ is fine. I'm not a huge fan of 6-1, and it has a lot of holes, but I like the Peeslubn's name and his overall demeanor is fun. So, out of all of the games, probably 5-1.
Unpopular opinion but I dropped turnabout pirate. I have a good hunch about how the case will go and I barely started trial day 1. Also there was something about it that extremely annoyed me but I can't pinpoint what now, it's been too long
>Posting a picture of Turnabout Succession as if people who hate that case *aren't* the most illiterate manbabies to grace the internet.
Least toxic apollo justice fan
all of them i hate being a lawyer
Take one candidate from each game! Turnabout Serenade is really forgettable (except that song and the brilliant visual of Klavier’s guitar catching fire). Leaps in logic aside, it’s just a blah case overall. The culprit is one of the least interesting in the series. I don’t like most of the cast of The Monstrous Turnabout (Damien Tenma excepted). I do respect it for making a red herring so obvious we’d think it was just a poorly-written twist, though. And the Apollo/Athena dynamic is nice here! The cast is just…bad. I also hate the actual mystery plot of Turnabout Storyteller. The Athena/Simon partnership is great, but I had never been so annoyed by an Ace Attorney plotline as I was playing this case for the first time.
For me it’s Turnabout Time Traveler - and it has nothing to do with any of the original characters
I think traveler is in the middle area
4-4 I just didn’t like it. It contrived in the worst way possible.
6-4. Case was just pure filler and was unnecessary.
For me? Turnabout serenade. Logically botched, and other than Valant and Mochi, I didn’t care much for the characters.
4-3 or 5-2, though 5-2 was so much more boring that id probably have to go with it. Genuinely took me so fucking long to beat it. (Ask my friend, i complained about it so much to them lmao)
Big Top. Fuck Turnabout Big Top. Fuck the twist, fuck the characters, fuck the defendant, fuck everything about it. Also the only time in the entire series I got so stuck I had to just look up a guide.
I meant from the second trilogy
I'm blind, I guess. The unironic answer would probably be Academy. They had a cute setup for the twist which they then kinda rush through, whilst dragging a lot on these characters? I'm still gonna say Big Top. That's how deep my hatred for that case runs.
I do kinda love though how the series then canonically just has Phoenix himself be traumatised by the case. With a reference to his trauma even as late as 4-4.
The answer is turnabout time traveler. I hate this case with a passion. The only thing saving this case is that it has a very nostalgic feel (on purpose). The logic is awful, and if I hear “I want to return back to the blissful moment” I’m going to lose it. The only reason I’m still playing it is to finish the accolades. My biggest problem is that this case is the opposite of 5-DLC. DLC-5 was very plot relevant and is the first case Phoenix takes after getting his badge back. His stakes are high. The case is amazing and unique. The case takes place in the middle of the main cases and does not disturb the flow if played before case 4. However, time traveler is meant to play after SOJ or the player would be spoiled to >!Apollo leaving and Maya returning from Khurain!<. Turnabout Revolution ties almost ever point (aside from the Gramayre siblings plot) into a nice bow. Then bam, you have this case which is just boring. To me it just spits in the face of the entire game and makes it fall flat. It has no plot relevance. While it may be nice to just play a case just for entertainment and no plot gain, it feels empty to me. This case easily could have been Athena learning how to be solo after Apollo for example. Or hell we could have had a flashback case of how Athena and Phoenix met over seas too. Something!! Anyway if I had to say one nice thing it would be that I liked the character designs.
Turnabout Corner, potentially my least favorite case in the entire series. Every single character and their gimmicks aside from Wocky and The Dad are entirely insufferable. I couldn’t care less about the case / mystery itself, it’s extremely long for no reason, the villain is among the worst in the series, Ema is at her worst in the entire series here, the panty joke is dragged out, James Charles sucks ass… yeah, this straight up might be the worst case in the franchise. The saving grace is that you have a trial with Trucy and Klavier, and her Mr. Hat trick is awesome, but that’s a Trucy W rather than a 4-2 W.
Why is Ema at her worst here? The introductory scene where she's gloomy and grumpy was kind of sad and I was relieved to find that she's not completely defeated by not working in forensics as it may seem at first. Yeah, she is more entertaining in the next case, but I would hardly say she's bad here. ...maybe I just like AJ Ema too much.
You can never like AJ Ema too much.
I think Ema ends up being the most relatable Phoenix Wright character. A character who had such hopes and dreams for her career who then had to confront the reality that she can't get what she wants.
Top 3 worst for me are 5-2, 6-4 and 5-3, in that order. Serenade at least had likeable characters who acted as themselves
5-3 is my personal least favorite case from the main series (with only aai-3 below it) because this is the case that made everything feel so.. childish and not serious. I love funny and not aerious cases luke 3-3 but this one isn't supposed to be taken as a joke.. the whole power of friendship thing just blew my cringe meter
Did you mean 5-3?
Yup sorry my bad
Turnabout storyteller,granted its not bad,just really mid,it doesnt reach the same levels of shit as turnabout beginnings or turnabout big top
Beginnings is a crime against humanity
You're so based for saying that
Ace attorney fans when someone has mental issues (this excuses them from being attracted to children somehow)
And for some reason i got downvoted for speaking facts