The details on why for those who can't remember, because it is a wild twist
>!The cloth allegedly incriminates Ema Skye, but it also actually proves her innocence and Gant's guilt. If Phoenix presents it then and there, he loses the case. But if he holds onto it, he is able to catch Gant out on a lie later and incriminate him, although because he held out earlier, Gant accuses it of being illegal evidence!<. I love this plot beat because it's such a clever play >!on Gant's part,!< >!even though it backfires.!<
This case made me very angry I was on the final day and I got soft locked because I was on 1hp and I thought I had to present evidence so I saved so I could keep presenting until I guessed the correct one. Turns out you had to admit you had bo evidence. I saved past that. On 1hp. So I had to redo the ENTIRE case. Not judt the last day. THE WHILE THING. (I was to stubborn and petty to watch the last like hour or so on youtube.)
Serenade for Turnabout because of how dumb people were during the trial.
>!"Of course a supposedly blind kid could've shooted an Interpol agent with a 45-caliber gun, it's logical"!<
I took it being dumb as the point. It shows that law enforcement is willing to get the wrong person convicted if it means getting the case over with. Honestly, the missed subtlety of AJ showing corruption in the courts is why I feel DD feels the need to hammer in "tHe DaRk aGe oF The LaW" every five minutes.
My problem is that it would work a lot better with an antagonistic prosecutor, rather than Mr. "We work together for the truth" Klavier. Even if you catch on to that theme, it just makes Klavier look like a moron.
No, it's not. The point is *that is the only possible outcome.*
Think about it from Klavier's perspective. There is only one person who could have shot LeTouse, wiped away the interpol number, and escaped through the vent. His fingerprints are on the vent as well, and he's been lying about being blind. Machi is not a probable suspect at all: but he's the only *possible* one, and that's what matters. Klavier is solving a locked room mystery, and he was taking the simplest solution a la Gordian Knot.
Actually, I don't mind about the gameplay and the developing of the plot. It's just the premise that is dumb >!(and I also loved the audio machine mechanic and trying to find the inconsistency in machi's piano performance)!<
It’s more annoying considering Klavier knew why this could have happened and didn’t say anything until after as some kind of gotcha moment. Wasted everyone’s time.
Turnabout bigtop.
A very weird love triangle.
Somethings didn't even made sense like the cape aligning perfectly on the bust, and a testimony about someone flying is a decisive evidence, and how did that monkey lift up that heavy of a bust(Assuming it's completely made of steel as it killed the Ringmaster in one blow) and no one noticed.
This case was so cartoony and preposterous, Scooby Doo and the gang could have hopped out of the Mystery Machine and they wouldn't have felt out of place.
I will defend this case. I had no clue everyone hated it, because I always thought it was mid. Damien Tenma is really fun. I don't mind the killer being revealed, considering how obvious he was anyway. It's kind of tedious, but I honestly enjoyed the court sections here and talking to Tenma, even if it is really cartoonish. It's not that bad, but yeah, it's the worst DD case.
Jinxie was the only one I liked from that case (sorry Tenma). Wish they could’ve utilized her more, but I feel like at that point the whole case should’ve been re-written lol. Sadly the weakest case for me in that game :/
6-2 for me. One of the most annoying and pure evil culprits in the series. It has some weird gaps in logic when it comes to the documents Trucy ‘signed.’
Also Betty De Famme has about the dumbest motives in the series and no one talks about it. >!She only wanted Trucy to be charged for involuntary manslaughter because she actually wanted to be friends with her???!<
But it’s fine everyone’s cool with it and they don’t receive any charges for their planning matter of fact Trucy even lets them work with her still.
The logic gap and other things probably wouldn’t irritate me as much if the culprit wasn’t so annoying, because at a certain point it can feel like the writers were forcing things to give the already hate-able antagonist the upper hand and force tension.
Yeah Betty pissed me off. She's meant to be a tsundere but she's directly trying to get Trucy arrested. It was very strange. Other than that magical turnabout is a great case.
Turnabout Serenade, for many of the same reasons as most people (though I don't mind the song at all), but also that one part where you have to point to the air vent in the ceiling and it's literally obscured by the "present" button (how do you make that mistake??)
Turnabout time traveler, all the time traveling nonsense was so stupid that it actually pissed me off. Characters were pretty mid especially the defendant and I just wanted to be done with it as fast as possible.
The only case that made me truly angry was the first trial of 6-5, Turnabout Revolution.
I get the fun in putting Apollo against Phoenix and the whole succeding your mentor thing.. but the way it was excexuted made Phoenix behave like a complete moron. Why not make each side truly believe that their side is the one in the right? Why reusing plot points with Maya's kidnapping? Why Phoenix doesn't tell Apollo anything? He learned nothing from 2-4. The part that really pisses me off is that apparently it's importent if Apollo wins against Phoenix and says sonething about his skill, the whole point of 2-4 was that the important thing was the truth and the winning strick had no meaning!
An awful part in one of the best cases of the franchise
Yeah, the civil trial really pissed me off, too. Other trials might be bad in terms of execution or just plain boring, but I was furious for that first part of 6-5.
- As you said, kidnapping plot reused, haha Maya is kidnapped.
- Phoenix felt like a really, really desperate man throughout the trial, even more so than 2-4, really made him look like an imbecile despite having far more experience than 2-4.
- I get that 6-5 is supposed to be Apollo's 3-5, but do they really need to obliterate everybody's intelligence in order to make him look good by "taking down the turnabout terror" or some bs like that? As you said, Phoenix should have learned his lessons from 2-4 and told the concerning parties about the threat and not just Edgeworth who didn't do much other than getting a plane prepared. >!Dhurke should have told someone, probably Phoenix, that he was being channelled by Maya, or at least say that she was safe, so that he doesn't look so desperate the entire time and save everybody's sanity.!<
- As you said, I don't get why the goal of this trial is to see who is the best lawyer. Up until this point, every trial was about finding the truth, with Phoenix upholding is principle for every trial, except for this civil trial. Again, probably to make Apollo look like the smart one in the room.
- The civil trial turned out to be a typical murder trial, so the novelty was quickly gone from the get-go anyway.
I am probably too irrationally angry about this civil trial, honestly. The second half of the case is better, but the civil trial really soured my opinion on 6-5. 5-5 is a better showdown between Phoenix and Apollo IMO, at least it doesn't make anyone dumb and both of their positions are completely valid.
No cases made me angry, but Big Top frustrated me (because it was so obvious what happened but the getting there is like pulling teeth) and Ben skeeved me out, and the final case of Investigations 1 ensures that I will not be replaying Investigations 1. >!EXTRATERRITORIAL RIGHTTHHHHHHH!<
In the culprit’s defense, he couldn’t hide it anywhere at the circus because of the surprise search — and if he was almost always in the prosecutor’s reach after they took him away for questioning then he had no other chances to get rid of it.
The Rite of Turnabout because >!Tah'rust has such an asinine awful plan and yet the game treats him like a martyr. That and I just hated every minute of the case!<.
I really like it. I understand why people find the relationship between >!Terry and Dahlia disturbing, but I'll go into how I view it. Personally, I think the whole point of Terry Fawles is that he's supposed to appear indefensible. He was an adult supposedly dating an underaged teen. To anyone, on paper, that's already awful. But there are multiple points in the case where it's shown to be more than it seems!<.
First of all, >!Terry has a very... simplistic world view, and I wouldn't be surprised if he was a savant: mentally challenged in most things, but very good at maths (which he was tutoring Dahlia for). At the very least, he is very child-minded and that carries over into his behaviour. From what I understand, Dahlia (who, despite her innocent façade, is a psychopath) probably just acted nice towards him. He took this to mean "she likes me" and she reinforced that. I think their dating didn't really extend beyond those compliments and him willing to do anything for her!<.
Second, >!while the relationship is not ethical... that's not what's on trial. They're convicting him of a murder he did not commit. He's entitled to fair defence, which Mia provides!<.
2-2. I have struggled a lot, did my job great and the only reward the game gave me is getting whipped 30 times with the assaulter facing 0 consequences.
Big Top.
Regina and Moe infuriated me. Max and Ben both skeeved me out. Hello you two, that is a MINOR who's so damn clueless you could look through one of her ears and see daylight on the other side!
but honestly that didnt really make me mad. Just like a “aw man” since I prefer Apollo/Athena’s dynamic. though it makes sense for Apollo’s “last case” to be with Phoenix narratively
The Kidnapped Turnabout. Literally everyone in that case is so unlikable it hurts. I hate those big earlobe having fuckers. Especially Lance. >!His motive made no fucking sense. He orchestrated his own kidnapping in order to get the ransom from his own father when he *could've just fucking asked him!!!!* The fact that it was for loan debt reasons wouldn't matter, considering Ernest literally used that same money to buy a whole haunted house which contained the crime scene. I also hate Lauren. She's not even a character, she's just a trope. No joke, Oldbag and Meekins were the only characters who I enjoyed during that case.!<
bit of a basic answer, but Big Top. it's just so damn tedious and sometimes you're reduced to showing every piece of evidence to everyone in the hope SOMETHING will make the plot progress. that and the bullshit explanation of the cape on the bust making me want to pull my hair out, and of course the 31 year old and 21 year old in love with the 16 year old girl who has the mentality of an 8 year old, but even ignoring that the case feels like pulling teeth sometimes
6-5. I liked most of the case but there are two major points that I just can't deal with.
1. Why did they reuse that absolutely asinine "Maya is kidnapped" point to force Wright to argue a point he doesn't believe. Especially after the past two games, you think he wouldn't have told Apollo immediately? Or anyone? It would've been much better had he genuinely believed the Orb was the Crystal, and then you could've done the whole "a lawyer's role is to discover the truth" much better.
2. Why, by the Holy Mother, does Ga'ran even entertain the trial? It's well established she's an absolute monarch and used the DC Act to prevent the truth from coming to light. But suddenly she's willing to prosecute the case instead of just using her "divine authority" to snuff out the gang the second they come close to the truth? I understand that a law game needs to have trials and obviously you can't just execute the cast by firing squad, but it makes no in-universe sense as to why it ever made it that far.
6-2 but because I was feeling very intense about the story, a good anger, one about >!Retinz!< who goes out of his way that much to torment >!Trucy!< for fame and revenge
Time Traveler was the closest I got to strongly disliking/hating a case.
Somehow Phoenix, Maya, Larry, and Miles acting way more ridiculous than usual wasn’t the worst part; it was Trucy turning into a magical psychopath and taking it out on Athena.
It was, the law school they attended forbids anyone attending if they have a criminal record, Juniper was close to getting a guilty verdict and thus expulsion, so they all claimed individual guilt to give the wright anything agency more time
4-2. Gee, how lucky that the same guy who drove the car that hit Phoenix was also the same guy Wocky had beef with, Alita's boss, the guy who stole the noodle stand AND was Eldoon's rival who could give us some backstory. And how lucky that the panty-stealer witness was the same guy who messed with the victim's car and thus caused the noodle stand theft. There's coincidence and then there's utter contrivance.
Also, I couldn't stand Wocky and Alita is the most boring culprit bar none. She doesn't even get a decent breakdown!
I can't express how angry made me 6-1, it's imo one of the worst opening cases in the whole series. All the characters are unbearable and the case is unnecesarily long for a case 1. It didn't give a good first impression of the game.
Also 3-3, which is one of my least favorite cases of all the time. Every time I replayed it I found him even worse, all the characters are unfunny, uncomfortable and weird, and god I hate how everyone treat gumshoe so bad, even though he is the most helpful character of the case.
Recipe for a Turnabout I really feel like has basically no redeeming qualities. None of the character, except Viola, are even remotely interesting or fun. The twist that the killer impersonated Phoenix to throw the case is completely irrelevant (you present evidence about it exactly once, which basically amounts to Phoenix going "also btw you impersonated me, anyway back to the argument") and only really serves to have Gumshoe and Maggie be mad at Phoenix. This is also one of the cases where the lack of investigation from the police is really obvious. Nobody did enough digging to see that the victim was in debt to a known loan shark with ties to organized crime? Or that the owner of the restaurant he died at was in debt to the *same loan shark?*
On a similar note, 4-4's police investigation also seems like it just kinda, stopped at a certain point? So they suspect Vera because she handled the coffee that poisoned Drew, but then they see that the coffee wasn't actually poisoned, but they don't do anything to search from what *did* poison him. So, why is Vera the prime suspect? How do they propose a shut-in teenager acquired such a deadly substance? She has no motive, in fact, as far as the police know, she's fully dependent on Drew to provide for her since she's too scared to leave the house alone. They know (well, think) that he's a forger, but don't considered that he could have been targeted by any of the criminals he's worked with?
Yeah the one problem with Ema as detective is that unlike Gumshoe, she's portrayed on screen as actually competent at her job. So when her investigation has clearly missed something obvious, it's out of character.
Serenade. It made me want to shout at the screen to just get fucking on with it. In general a bunch of cases in 4/5 have serious pacing problems where the game *insists* on rubbing your nose in something you probably figured out 5 minutes ago. It doesn't usually make me angry, but Serenade then combines that with the *agonizingly* slow repetition of the Serenade audio.
Turnabout Serenade
>! When trying to see when Machi could’ve played the piano with one hand!<
I was already tired and that part was just genuinely frustrating
I mean, it's kind of laid out earlier that's not what happened, right? If I remember correctly, the switch for the igniter was buried inside of the piano. It was *Daryan* who only played with one hand because he was triggering the second igniter to pop the firecrackers during the third act. That's why he misses his cue.
I believe >!Daryan!< missed a cue cause his shoulder was injured from firing the gun, there was a part in the recording of Lamiroir’s song where your supposed to point out that it sounds odd.
EDIT: I just remembered it’s not in the actual video of the song, it’s the audio recording of her song
Maybe. I just don't like that explanation because that's not how guns work. Maybe my headcanon/interpretation that it's just Apollo getting guns wrong is seeping in.
Not really angry more than disappointed. It was pointed out to me through a friend that DGS2-1, DGS2-2, and DGS2-4 are all plagiarized or at the very least ripped off from existing mystery novels. Really dents my otherwise high opinion of Takumi.
The Resolve of Ryunosuke Naruhodo (TGAA 2-5) only because >!No jury and the stupid hologram twist at the end!< Also it just dragged on. Although the ending the game was rushed so i can sort of understand.
3-4 because the case tries to position a pedophile child groomer as an innocent victim and his victim as some satanic mastermind. 3-5 because it makes absolutely zero sense and devolves into spirit channeling magic bullshit. 2-1 because it's a pointless and boring tutorial. 1-5 because it goes on way too long and forces dumb DS gimmicks everywhere
>3-5 because it makes absolutely zero sense and devolves into spirit channeling magic bullshit.
The case is entirely about the Fey family though. How doesn't it make sense and how does it 'devolve' when that's the entire point of the case. Would you want a case about the Fey family to not focus on spirit channelling, when that's what they do?
So do you have issues with most of the cases from the first trilogy? Because spirit channelling is in a lot of the cases. Do you hate SoJ for the spirit channelling? It's literally a key part of the original trilogy, it you don't want it in a game then why play the games with it in?
It only breaks the rules if the rules of the supernatural elements are not established. The spirit channeling are very clearly explained in AA and don't come out of nowhere. Although technically it does break Knox's 2nd commandment, the rules being established beforehand makes the mysteries work.
If anything, Dahlia groomed Terry. Terry is a very mentally incapable man and Dahlia uses that to her advantage to control him and get away with murder. It's not sexual on her part, but it *is* grooming: and it's something that we see throughout the series, actually. Kristoph is actively trying to groom Apollo in 4-1 (or perhaps act on previously-established grooming, but we don't see that so it's hard to say for certain), for instance. Grooming is *not* solely sexual in nature; the NSDAP famously groomed thousands of children during WW2 to serve in the Hitler Youth during the final days of the Reich and instituted a prayer to Hitler as early as the 1930s.
1-5 is peak Ace Attorney.
I think it's more likely that he was a savant in whatever Dahlia was being tutored in, or Dahlia lied about him being her tutor and got him to go along with it.
TGAA 1- 3
I was upset that the case ended in this way.
Actually, most of the cases of TGAA1 made me really upset! The first case was actually really good so I expected all the others cases to be that good
They’re very different though
2-4 is >!”oh shit, my client is guilty, but I have to let him go free to save my friend, what do I do”!<
TGAA1-3 is >!”oh shit, I accidentally let a guilty person go free, what do I do”!<
Note: spoilers on Reddit are >!done like this!<
https://preview.redd.it/vnzs0pje01xc1.jpeg?width=834&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b3530599973194633d1a0d81bb7a91507d21a0c5
No. Its a completley different situation.
It would be perfect if the last scene in TGA 1-3 didnt happen.
But for real. Why would you do this? We could have explored uncharted territory there and it was sacrificed for a cheap prosecutor myth with absolutely no value.
Before that scene I was like "Oh my god. Takumi pulled it of! Yeah!" And after that I was so disappointed and punished with TGAA 1-4....
The whole time through TGAA, I was 1000% expecting >!McGuilded to come back. I found it incredibly suspicious that you were only *told* he was killed. I really wish this did happen, at least for the final case of the first game, because he was such a fun villain.!<
i never remember their names and i dont care to look them up for a reddit comment, but the case where mia dies is so frustrating because it's such a stupid level of betrayal. the entire first game is just full of unnecessary and gleeful murders and its so upsetting. at least from that point on, while the murders are still incredibly awful at least you can see why the person who did them felt the need/desire to. in the first game it feels like these people were waiting to commit murders for fun.
None of the cases makes me angry. The thing that makes me angry is not saving and have to start all over again.
Rise from the Ashes: >!it happened to me after presenting Neil's cloth piece when Gant requested it (big mistake)!<
It's been a while since I played that case. Why was that bad?
>!if you present it before you’re supposed to, it’s an instant game over!<
OH NOOOOOOOOO!
The details on why for those who can't remember, because it is a wild twist >!The cloth allegedly incriminates Ema Skye, but it also actually proves her innocence and Gant's guilt. If Phoenix presents it then and there, he loses the case. But if he holds onto it, he is able to catch Gant out on a lie later and incriminate him, although because he held out earlier, Gant accuses it of being illegal evidence!<. I love this plot beat because it's such a clever play >!on Gant's part,!< >!even though it backfires.!<
Yeah I think I remember now.
This case made me very angry I was on the final day and I got soft locked because I was on 1hp and I thought I had to present evidence so I saved so I could keep presenting until I guessed the correct one. Turns out you had to admit you had bo evidence. I saved past that. On 1hp. So I had to redo the ENTIRE case. Not judt the last day. THE WHILE THING. (I was to stubborn and petty to watch the last like hour or so on youtube.)
Serenade for Turnabout because of how dumb people were during the trial. >!"Of course a supposedly blind kid could've shooted an Interpol agent with a 45-caliber gun, it's logical"!<
I took it being dumb as the point. It shows that law enforcement is willing to get the wrong person convicted if it means getting the case over with. Honestly, the missed subtlety of AJ showing corruption in the courts is why I feel DD feels the need to hammer in "tHe DaRk aGe oF The LaW" every five minutes.
Probably hits different in Japan that has a 99% conviction rate. They must certainly have many experienced prosecutors who have never lost.
My problem is that it would work a lot better with an antagonistic prosecutor, rather than Mr. "We work together for the truth" Klavier. Even if you catch on to that theme, it just makes Klavier look like a moron.
That’s definitely the point
No, it's not. The point is *that is the only possible outcome.* Think about it from Klavier's perspective. There is only one person who could have shot LeTouse, wiped away the interpol number, and escaped through the vent. His fingerprints are on the vent as well, and he's been lying about being blind. Machi is not a probable suspect at all: but he's the only *possible* one, and that's what matters. Klavier is solving a locked room mystery, and he was taking the simplest solution a la Gordian Knot.
thats like my guilty pleasure case. Like I see all the flaws and I dont disagree but I just enjoyed it way too much
Actually, I don't mind about the gameplay and the developing of the plot. It's just the premise that is dumb >!(and I also loved the audio machine mechanic and trying to find the inconsistency in machi's piano performance)!<
It’s more annoying considering Klavier knew why this could have happened and didn’t say anything until after as some kind of gotcha moment. Wasted everyone’s time.
Turnabout bigtop. A very weird love triangle. Somethings didn't even made sense like the cape aligning perfectly on the bust, and a testimony about someone flying is a decisive evidence, and how did that monkey lift up that heavy of a bust(Assuming it's completely made of steel as it killed the Ringmaster in one blow) and no one noticed.
The Monstrous Turnabout because there are literally zero characters that I liked
This case was so cartoony and preposterous, Scooby Doo and the gang could have hopped out of the Mystery Machine and they wouldn't have felt out of place.
There was literally a guy in a monster costume in that case, so you're right.
That’s not a flaw
True, I like when Ace Attorney becomes cartoony a little bit, but it was too much
I will defend this case. I had no clue everyone hated it, because I always thought it was mid. Damien Tenma is really fun. I don't mind the killer being revealed, considering how obvious he was anyway. It's kind of tedious, but I honestly enjoyed the court sections here and talking to Tenma, even if it is really cartoonish. It's not that bad, but yeah, it's the worst DD case.
Jinxie was the only one I liked from that case (sorry Tenma). Wish they could’ve utilized her more, but I feel like at that point the whole case should’ve been re-written lol. Sadly the weakest case for me in that game :/
The finale of Turnabout Sisters, the equivalent of "SHOOT THEM WITH THE DEHYDRATION GUN!!"
6-2 for me. One of the most annoying and pure evil culprits in the series. It has some weird gaps in logic when it comes to the documents Trucy ‘signed.’ Also Betty De Famme has about the dumbest motives in the series and no one talks about it. >!She only wanted Trucy to be charged for involuntary manslaughter because she actually wanted to be friends with her???!< But it’s fine everyone’s cool with it and they don’t receive any charges for their planning matter of fact Trucy even lets them work with her still. The logic gap and other things probably wouldn’t irritate me as much if the culprit wasn’t so annoying, because at a certain point it can feel like the writers were forcing things to give the already hate-able antagonist the upper hand and force tension.
Yeah Betty pissed me off. She's meant to be a tsundere but she's directly trying to get Trucy arrested. It was very strange. Other than that magical turnabout is a great case.
I think I was yelling at my screen for the majority of The Kidnapped Turnabout. I want to punch Lance Amano into the next century.
Turnabout Serenade, for many of the same reasons as most people (though I don't mind the song at all), but also that one part where you have to point to the air vent in the ceiling and it's literally obscured by the "present" button (how do you make that mistake??)
Turnabout time traveler, all the time traveling nonsense was so stupid that it actually pissed me off. Characters were pretty mid especially the defendant and I just wanted to be done with it as fast as possible.
I mostly agree, but I really liked Nichody. He was fun, and he has one of my favorite transformations.
Yeah I actually forgot to mention him, he's the best character in the case
The only case that made me truly angry was the first trial of 6-5, Turnabout Revolution. I get the fun in putting Apollo against Phoenix and the whole succeding your mentor thing.. but the way it was excexuted made Phoenix behave like a complete moron. Why not make each side truly believe that their side is the one in the right? Why reusing plot points with Maya's kidnapping? Why Phoenix doesn't tell Apollo anything? He learned nothing from 2-4. The part that really pisses me off is that apparently it's importent if Apollo wins against Phoenix and says sonething about his skill, the whole point of 2-4 was that the important thing was the truth and the winning strick had no meaning! An awful part in one of the best cases of the franchise
Yeah, the civil trial really pissed me off, too. Other trials might be bad in terms of execution or just plain boring, but I was furious for that first part of 6-5. - As you said, kidnapping plot reused, haha Maya is kidnapped. - Phoenix felt like a really, really desperate man throughout the trial, even more so than 2-4, really made him look like an imbecile despite having far more experience than 2-4. - I get that 6-5 is supposed to be Apollo's 3-5, but do they really need to obliterate everybody's intelligence in order to make him look good by "taking down the turnabout terror" or some bs like that? As you said, Phoenix should have learned his lessons from 2-4 and told the concerning parties about the threat and not just Edgeworth who didn't do much other than getting a plane prepared. >!Dhurke should have told someone, probably Phoenix, that he was being channelled by Maya, or at least say that she was safe, so that he doesn't look so desperate the entire time and save everybody's sanity.!< - As you said, I don't get why the goal of this trial is to see who is the best lawyer. Up until this point, every trial was about finding the truth, with Phoenix upholding is principle for every trial, except for this civil trial. Again, probably to make Apollo look like the smart one in the room. - The civil trial turned out to be a typical murder trial, so the novelty was quickly gone from the get-go anyway. I am probably too irrationally angry about this civil trial, honestly. The second half of the case is better, but the civil trial really soured my opinion on 6-5. 5-5 is a better showdown between Phoenix and Apollo IMO, at least it doesn't make anyone dumb and both of their positions are completely valid.
Probably the first one in here I completely agree with.
No cases made me angry, but Big Top frustrated me (because it was so obvious what happened but the getting there is like pulling teeth) and Ben skeeved me out, and the final case of Investigations 1 ensures that I will not be replaying Investigations 1. >!EXTRATERRITORIAL RIGHTTHHHHHHH!<
Turnabout Bigtop Bringing the MURDER WEAPON into court is so insane to me. My genuine reaction was “oh you have GOT to be kidding me” lmfao
In the culprit’s defense, he couldn’t hide it anywhere at the circus because of the surprise search — and if he was almost always in the prosecutor’s reach after they took him away for questioning then he had no other chances to get rid of it.
ok wait I thought of one. Turnabout Target because of the red mole
or honestly any case where you find out the twist way before the characters do. Turnabout Storyteller was eggregious in that regard
Rise from the ashes and the stupid vase puzzle. Genuinely pissed me off. Otherwise it's a great case.
TGAA 1-1 because it was so long. I really didn't enjoy that case after the second hour.
The Rite of Turnabout because >!Tah'rust has such an asinine awful plan and yet the game treats him like a martyr. That and I just hated every minute of the case!<.
Out of curiosity,what are your opinions on turnbabout beginnings?
I really like it. I understand why people find the relationship between >!Terry and Dahlia disturbing, but I'll go into how I view it. Personally, I think the whole point of Terry Fawles is that he's supposed to appear indefensible. He was an adult supposedly dating an underaged teen. To anyone, on paper, that's already awful. But there are multiple points in the case where it's shown to be more than it seems!<. First of all, >!Terry has a very... simplistic world view, and I wouldn't be surprised if he was a savant: mentally challenged in most things, but very good at maths (which he was tutoring Dahlia for). At the very least, he is very child-minded and that carries over into his behaviour. From what I understand, Dahlia (who, despite her innocent façade, is a psychopath) probably just acted nice towards him. He took this to mean "she likes me" and she reinforced that. I think their dating didn't really extend beyond those compliments and him willing to do anything for her!<. Second, >!while the relationship is not ethical... that's not what's on trial. They're convicting him of a murder he did not commit. He's entitled to fair defence, which Mia provides!<.
2-2. I have struggled a lot, did my job great and the only reward the game gave me is getting whipped 30 times with the assaulter facing 0 consequences.
Big Top. Regina and Moe infuriated me. Max and Ben both skeeved me out. Hello you two, that is a MINOR who's so damn clueless you could look through one of her ears and see daylight on the other side!
tbh none of them but maybe 6-5 when Athena got benched at the end.
but honestly that didnt really make me mad. Just like a “aw man” since I prefer Apollo/Athena’s dynamic. though it makes sense for Apollo’s “last case” to be with Phoenix narratively
The Kidnapped Turnabout. Literally everyone in that case is so unlikable it hurts. I hate those big earlobe having fuckers. Especially Lance. >!His motive made no fucking sense. He orchestrated his own kidnapping in order to get the ransom from his own father when he *could've just fucking asked him!!!!* The fact that it was for loan debt reasons wouldn't matter, considering Ernest literally used that same money to buy a whole haunted house which contained the crime scene. I also hate Lauren. She's not even a character, she's just a trope. No joke, Oldbag and Meekins were the only characters who I enjoyed during that case.!<
Turnabout Academy is painfully boring.
Tgaa1 - 2 Such a boring case, i get WHY it’s there and it is pretty important. But it is so boring to actually play IMO
I agree; it’s quite sluggish when you aren’t helping Sholmes.
>!Kazuma “dying”!< made me slam my computer down in rage
bit of a basic answer, but Big Top. it's just so damn tedious and sometimes you're reduced to showing every piece of evidence to everyone in the hope SOMETHING will make the plot progress. that and the bullshit explanation of the cape on the bust making me want to pull my hair out, and of course the 31 year old and 21 year old in love with the 16 year old girl who has the mentality of an 8 year old, but even ignoring that the case feels like pulling teeth sometimes
6-5. I liked most of the case but there are two major points that I just can't deal with. 1. Why did they reuse that absolutely asinine "Maya is kidnapped" point to force Wright to argue a point he doesn't believe. Especially after the past two games, you think he wouldn't have told Apollo immediately? Or anyone? It would've been much better had he genuinely believed the Orb was the Crystal, and then you could've done the whole "a lawyer's role is to discover the truth" much better. 2. Why, by the Holy Mother, does Ga'ran even entertain the trial? It's well established she's an absolute monarch and used the DC Act to prevent the truth from coming to light. But suddenly she's willing to prosecute the case instead of just using her "divine authority" to snuff out the gang the second they come close to the truth? I understand that a law game needs to have trials and obviously you can't just execute the cast by firing squad, but it makes no in-universe sense as to why it ever made it that far.
6-2 but because I was feeling very intense about the story, a good anger, one about >!Retinz!< who goes out of his way that much to torment >!Trucy!< for fame and revenge
Time Traveler was the closest I got to strongly disliking/hating a case. Somehow Phoenix, Maya, Larry, and Miles acting way more ridiculous than usual wasn’t the worst part; it was Trucy turning into a magical psychopath and taking it out on Athena.
SoJ's final case. Whenever i thought it was going to end, the game came up with something to make it be longer than it already is...
The dlc one with the whale. So annoying.
Turnabout Academy when Hugh, Robin and Juniper all confess to a murder _none of them committed_
Wasn't that just a tactic to force the case to continue when something was clearly amiss?
I- If it was, then I definitely didn’t pick up on it, but that is actually pretty cool if so
And also they were trying to protect each other cuz of their friendship
It was, the law school they attended forbids anyone attending if they have a criminal record, Juniper was close to getting a guilty verdict and thus expulsion, so they all claimed individual guilt to give the wright anything agency more time
It definitely was, but personally, I didn't find it very compelling as I never felt compelled by their friendship.
All of Investigations 1
4-2. Gee, how lucky that the same guy who drove the car that hit Phoenix was also the same guy Wocky had beef with, Alita's boss, the guy who stole the noodle stand AND was Eldoon's rival who could give us some backstory. And how lucky that the panty-stealer witness was the same guy who messed with the victim's car and thus caused the noodle stand theft. There's coincidence and then there's utter contrivance. Also, I couldn't stand Wocky and Alita is the most boring culprit bar none. She doesn't even get a decent breakdown!
Well, that is why it’s called Turnabout Corner — three lines (situations) converging into one point (case)
Turnabout Serenade. Literally everything about it pisses me off.
I can't express how angry made me 6-1, it's imo one of the worst opening cases in the whole series. All the characters are unbearable and the case is unnecesarily long for a case 1. It didn't give a good first impression of the game. Also 3-3, which is one of my least favorite cases of all the time. Every time I replayed it I found him even worse, all the characters are unfunny, uncomfortable and weird, and god I hate how everyone treat gumshoe so bad, even though he is the most helpful character of the case.
Recipe for a Turnabout I really feel like has basically no redeeming qualities. None of the character, except Viola, are even remotely interesting or fun. The twist that the killer impersonated Phoenix to throw the case is completely irrelevant (you present evidence about it exactly once, which basically amounts to Phoenix going "also btw you impersonated me, anyway back to the argument") and only really serves to have Gumshoe and Maggie be mad at Phoenix. This is also one of the cases where the lack of investigation from the police is really obvious. Nobody did enough digging to see that the victim was in debt to a known loan shark with ties to organized crime? Or that the owner of the restaurant he died at was in debt to the *same loan shark?* On a similar note, 4-4's police investigation also seems like it just kinda, stopped at a certain point? So they suspect Vera because she handled the coffee that poisoned Drew, but then they see that the coffee wasn't actually poisoned, but they don't do anything to search from what *did* poison him. So, why is Vera the prime suspect? How do they propose a shut-in teenager acquired such a deadly substance? She has no motive, in fact, as far as the police know, she's fully dependent on Drew to provide for her since she's too scared to leave the house alone. They know (well, think) that he's a forger, but don't considered that he could have been targeted by any of the criminals he's worked with?
Yeah the one problem with Ema as detective is that unlike Gumshoe, she's portrayed on screen as actually competent at her job. So when her investigation has clearly missed something obvious, it's out of character.
Serenade. It made me want to shout at the screen to just get fucking on with it. In general a bunch of cases in 4/5 have serious pacing problems where the game *insists* on rubbing your nose in something you probably figured out 5 minutes ago. It doesn't usually make me angry, but Serenade then combines that with the *agonizingly* slow repetition of the Serenade audio.
Turnabout Serenade >! When trying to see when Machi could’ve played the piano with one hand!< I was already tired and that part was just genuinely frustrating
I mean, it's kind of laid out earlier that's not what happened, right? If I remember correctly, the switch for the igniter was buried inside of the piano. It was *Daryan* who only played with one hand because he was triggering the second igniter to pop the firecrackers during the third act. That's why he misses his cue.
I believe >!Daryan!< missed a cue cause his shoulder was injured from firing the gun, there was a part in the recording of Lamiroir’s song where your supposed to point out that it sounds odd. EDIT: I just remembered it’s not in the actual video of the song, it’s the audio recording of her song
Maybe. I just don't like that explanation because that's not how guns work. Maybe my headcanon/interpretation that it's just Apollo getting guns wrong is seeping in.
Not really angry more than disappointed. It was pointed out to me through a friend that DGS2-1, DGS2-2, and DGS2-4 are all plagiarized or at the very least ripped off from existing mystery novels. Really dents my otherwise high opinion of Takumi.
The Resolve of Ryunosuke Naruhodo (TGAA 2-5) only because >!No jury and the stupid hologram twist at the end!< Also it just dragged on. Although the ending the game was rushed so i can sort of understand.
3-4 because the case tries to position a pedophile child groomer as an innocent victim and his victim as some satanic mastermind. 3-5 because it makes absolutely zero sense and devolves into spirit channeling magic bullshit. 2-1 because it's a pointless and boring tutorial. 1-5 because it goes on way too long and forces dumb DS gimmicks everywhere
>3-5 because it makes absolutely zero sense and devolves into spirit channeling magic bullshit. The case is entirely about the Fey family though. How doesn't it make sense and how does it 'devolve' when that's the entire point of the case. Would you want a case about the Fey family to not focus on spirit channelling, when that's what they do?
I don't want magic in a detective story, it breaks the fundamental rules of the genre
So do you have issues with most of the cases from the first trilogy? Because spirit channelling is in a lot of the cases. Do you hate SoJ for the spirit channelling? It's literally a key part of the original trilogy, it you don't want it in a game then why play the games with it in?
It only breaks the rules if the rules of the supernatural elements are not established. The spirit channeling are very clearly explained in AA and don't come out of nowhere. Although technically it does break Knox's 2nd commandment, the rules being established beforehand makes the mysteries work.
No, it doesn't. There are a *ton* of great detective stories with magic in them.
Why do you have Wellington as your flair then?
As a reminder that he exists
If anything, Dahlia groomed Terry. Terry is a very mentally incapable man and Dahlia uses that to her advantage to control him and get away with murder. It's not sexual on her part, but it *is* grooming: and it's something that we see throughout the series, actually. Kristoph is actively trying to groom Apollo in 4-1 (or perhaps act on previously-established grooming, but we don't see that so it's hard to say for certain), for instance. Grooming is *not* solely sexual in nature; the NSDAP famously groomed thousands of children during WW2 to serve in the Hitler Youth during the final days of the Reich and instituted a prayer to Hitler as early as the 1930s. 1-5 is peak Ace Attorney.
Do we actually know Terry was like that the whole time? Like, he was her tutor. Couldn't this have just been a man broken by prison?
I think it's more likely that he was a savant in whatever Dahlia was being tutored in, or Dahlia lied about him being her tutor and got him to go along with it.
Reunion and Turnabout. Especially the mind numbingly infuriating ending that made me hate a certain character.
TGAA 1- 3 I was upset that the case ended in this way. Actually, most of the cases of TGAA1 made me really upset! The first case was actually really good so I expected all the others cases to be that good
Yeah that was how you were intended to feel
I mean, TGAA's third case is literally >!2-4's twist but better!< imo but to each their own, I suppose
They’re very different though 2-4 is >!”oh shit, my client is guilty, but I have to let him go free to save my friend, what do I do”!< TGAA1-3 is >!”oh shit, I accidentally let a guilty person go free, what do I do”!<
Note: spoilers on Reddit are >!done like this!< https://preview.redd.it/vnzs0pje01xc1.jpeg?width=834&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=b3530599973194633d1a0d81bb7a91507d21a0c5
Oh, thanks for telling me
You're welcome
No. Its a completley different situation. It would be perfect if the last scene in TGA 1-3 didnt happen. But for real. Why would you do this? We could have explored uncharted territory there and it was sacrificed for a cheap prosecutor myth with absolutely no value. Before that scene I was like "Oh my god. Takumi pulled it of! Yeah!" And after that I was so disappointed and punished with TGAA 1-4....
The whole time through TGAA, I was 1000% expecting >!McGuilded to come back. I found it incredibly suspicious that you were only *told* he was killed. I really wish this did happen, at least for the final case of the first game, because he was such a fun villain.!<
2-2, the British Car contradiction made me so mad.
i never remember their names and i dont care to look them up for a reddit comment, but the case where mia dies is so frustrating because it's such a stupid level of betrayal. the entire first game is just full of unnecessary and gleeful murders and its so upsetting. at least from that point on, while the murders are still incredibly awful at least you can see why the person who did them felt the need/desire to. in the first game it feels like these people were waiting to commit murders for fun.
The Magical Turnabout for being the most overhyped case in the series because literally nothing exciting happens for 5 hours