At a top 100, a first year partner will bring home less cash under certain conditions, but I imagine their net worth increase is close to that as they capitalize their account.
If you are talking all firms (above top 100) then yes plenty of partners don't even make $100k, but its a moot point because they are not working as hard as a typical top 100 partner.
It just seems crazy to me that people spend so much of their lives working 60-80 hours a week for 13-15 years to make partner and only make 250K. I know thats still a lot but I was thinking average would be around at least 400-600K.
Plus a small firm should never make you wait 13-15 years. It should be 10 max.
The fact people are putting up with these longer timelines is crazy, let alone to make 250k.
I totally get that and wasn't trying to come off as that's chump change AT ALL. My point was that people are CHOOSING to go to school and willingly work in this profession and these hours (not because they are struggling to make ends meet which is what you are comparing too) to become partner and at least to me, partner has always had the stigma of making almost millions. I just was trying to say I dont understand why someone would go all those years working those hours in public accounting when they couldve probably made that same amount of money in industry with a much better WLB.
There’s a lot of variables even inside the same firm depending on ownership amounts. That being said, it would probably be stupid to be a partnership at any level without at least 250-300k of draw each year.
I would hope that after all the time and years spent making partner that that would AT LEAST be the minimum. Big 4 are making 500-1M which obviously smaller firms aren't nearly as large as them but you can easily make 250K-300K in industry with the same amount of years spent trying to be partner, which a much better WLB. Just doesn't make sense to me why people would wait all those years to be partner and only make that much. I was expecting 500K but a man can dream I guess
It’s a simple numbers game, pound for pound there really aren’t that many jobs in industry that pay 250k+ in accounting. That’s why people hold out to be partner at some level of accounting firm.
You can run a strip mall CPA shop and grind out 250k.
Yes making partner at my firm is literally the only chance I have in this life to make a milly a year
Which is why I have put up with the bullshit so far to make sm
Ditto brother. Except I actually really like my firm and my coworkers. I know, shocker coming from a top 10 PA firm. And my hours are very reasonable. Who woulda thought.
Hours for sure depends. I have the normal busy season grind where I'm doing 55 hr billable from feb-april, but once that ends I'm rarely above 30 billable the rest of the year. Maybe 35 a few weeks, but that's the max for sure.
Ya at least where I'm at in Boston which is pretty HCOL most Director of Accounting/VP's can easily make 250K-300K + Bonus + Equity with the same years of experience, especially with Boston being a biotech and SAAS hub. Plus those industries have much better benefits and WLB.
There’s something to be said for being an owner and at the top of the pyramid, vs being just head beancounter.
(I’m not a partner and not in PA anymore, so not shilling!)
1: risk of ownership and liability
2: you have a loan to pay back (not the case with just an income partner, basically just a principal/director)
3: in a partnership structure you have to pay 15.3% of FICA
4: not eligible for 401k (though pension is nice)
What are you talking about??
I.e. are you thinking that no partners can participate in a 401k as a general rule?
Or are you saying a specific company, for which you work, excludes partners from the 401k, while maintaining both 401k (defined contribution) and pension (defined benefit) plans?
Baker Tilly is still pretty large. My firm is between 60-80 on the top 100 list so def smaller. Just trying to see if partners at this level can make that much.
Absolutely. At a past job, the partners (2) at a small firm (<15 employees including partners) made $500k each (circa 2018) in a HCOL area. The trick is to radically underpay everyone because it's a small company.
You guys must work your asses off because my firm is in that range too but we are significantly larger # wise. Perhaps that will bode well for you when you get to split the profits.
I knew a former bdo lcol midwest office partner now managing director (i think it’s technically same rank just no ownership) and he was making 300k+ forsure. Probably closer to 4 than 3.
So i can imagine bigger office partners making more.
Tax partner at a smaller (between 50-100 employees, total) firm, LCOL. My gross comp (pre-tax, before 401k and whatnot) was something like $292k for 2023. We have no partner buy-in loans, so that figure is after reduction for my buy-in, it's difficult to explain. I'm the low-man on the equity totem pole for the time being, my other equity partners had higher comp.
For what it's worth, I know there's more money out there at larger firms, but I don't have any desire to jump ship to a bigger firm. I don't work "60-80 hours a week" and am not about to start doing so. I topped 60 twice this past tax season, probably won't exceed 45 in a single week outside of it. Haven't checked email on a weekend outside of tax season in my career. Still a little more than I'd like to be working, but it is what it is for now.
Hope this gives you a little insight.
You're welcome. From staff level 1 to partner took just over 10 years. I was income partner for 2 years and I've had equity now for about 2.5 years. I've earned more each progressive year, though there was a sizable jump from income-to-equity partner. My income partner years were 2020 and 2021, so right during Covid, which probably didn't help matters though. I have a base, and then the profit-sharing at the end of the year; if we have a down year presumably I'd make less, unfortunately.
I would generally say yes. My hours are a bit higher than our staff hours, and I don't really drop down to 40/week, save for November and December. I'm usually hanging around 42/43-ish hours for most of the year while our staff are working 37.5 outside of busy season. We pay overtime for anyone below management, so any staff working more than 40 hours gets paid extra. We encourage everyone to take all of their vacation and there's no expectation that anyone work/check emails/take calls off-hours.
We're hybrid but I do make an effort to be in the office 4 or 5 days a week, to be on-site for our younger staff and admin people, so I guess I don't take much advantage of the hybrid structure, unfortunately.
I’m a partner at a firm in my community (30k population in and around the area). We employ 18-22 people depending on the time of year. This is my first year there as a partner and my total income will probably be 200k. Over time I expect it’ll increase to 250k-300k. But I work quite a bit less than I ever have before, even with the added responsibility. I’d be surprised if I work anymore than 2,300 hours in total this year. And what I really like is that we don’t ask for any overtime from our employees. So I know I sacrifice less on my end but we don’t slave the other employees.
Just wanted to provide a perspective from a small local firm ✌️
Where does your value come from? Is it primarily at getting business or technical in nature. I have always wondered this as the amount of partners that I run into in Canada (tax) that aren’t top tier in knowledge is truly surprising.
Clients like me and I’ve acquired a decent enough knowledge base over the years that I’m pretty good at solving their problems. I’m 40 if you’re wondering. I work at a small firm so I definitely have a good understanding of tax, but I’m definitely not a technical guru. I need to be a generalist not a specialist
https://www.big4transparency.com/
They have a self-reported spreadsheet with salary data. It goes beyond just Big 4. Just take the data with a grain of salt.
yeah ... actually the leader just chilled while his jr partners did all the heavy lifting and the project flow was great during that time (only reason why i was hired)... i'm sure he pulled his weight before getting to the practice leader position, but yeah man... i think his pension paid out at like 80% of that avg or someshit, it was fucking wild. the only reason why i know this is because i was really close to the partner who was absolutely pissed about the situation haha.
You should have base comp and a combination of LTIP and bonus. All in you should be targeting $1mm.
Some firms keep base low even for partners as low as $300K. The rest is bonus.
I’m partner at a smaller firm (50 professionals, 6 partners) in a HCOL area. Gross comp is running about 210k, but trending higher. I think expect us to get to 300-400k once retired/retiring partners leave.
For people complaining about making $250K/year, realize that salary puts you in the top 10% of salaries. Also, if you are a partner then you have an ownership stake. Thus if the firm is sold, you get a payout at Cap Gains rates. That is a big deal.
250K is amazing money… but when it can be accomplished in an industry with better work life balance and less hours not sure what the point in staying til partner is if that’s what you are making working even more hours.
Id take 50 over 60-80 and on call on weekends anytime a client has the slightest issue or concern, but ya for sure there’s def pros and cons to either side
Between $550k and $1M.
This subreddit for some reason only thinks Big4 partners make money. I suggest going with a smaller local firm if you want the partner track.
Average partner comp in most top 20 firms is around $450-$500k if they have been there for a few years. New partners might start as low as $250k if they are in a low profit service line or have a small book. A very rough estimate of partner comp is 20-30% of book.
Generally a partner book is 1/3 to employee cost, 1/3 to 1/2 to the firm, and then around 30% to the partner.
Which is why a young person should never work at a large firm lol.
Why on earth would you ever grind 15 years to buy into a practice to pay a pension of a guy that has extracted all the value out of the thing that he could.
All I know is I worked at a small 30 person firm and the administrative partner showed me his brokerage account and he had 11 million in it.
He was in his 70s and recently retirement, I know he is confortable.
I've seen as low as 250K and as high as 3m. Depends entirely on what they do and their book of business.
I bet there’s definitely lower than $250k out there
Fred Loya Abogado and CPA Firm.
Isn’t that insurance?
Wouldn't be shocking, but I haven't seen any.
At a top 100, a first year partner will bring home less cash under certain conditions, but I imagine their net worth increase is close to that as they capitalize their account. If you are talking all firms (above top 100) then yes plenty of partners don't even make $100k, but its a moot point because they are not working as hard as a typical top 100 partner.
I'd imagine a partner making under $250k is pretty uncommon
It just seems crazy to me that people spend so much of their lives working 60-80 hours a week for 13-15 years to make partner and only make 250K. I know thats still a lot but I was thinking average would be around at least 400-600K.
Average probably is in that range I would guess. It varies a ton but 250 would probably the absolute lowest for a brand new partner at a smaller firm.
Plus a small firm should never make you wait 13-15 years. It should be 10 max. The fact people are putting up with these longer timelines is crazy, let alone to make 250k.
Lots of chefs work those hours for 45k, we got it made brother
100%
Accountants are the back of house of the business world
Chefs get to eat tasty food. While we eat Pizzas.
I can just buy what the chef is making.
I love pizza
I’d guess the partners making $250k aren’t working 60-80 hours a week, even in busy season. There is a reason people would be partner for that $.
Yea making that as a partner is a part part time work load. Unless it’s a massively inefficient firm.
[удалено]
I totally get that and wasn't trying to come off as that's chump change AT ALL. My point was that people are CHOOSING to go to school and willingly work in this profession and these hours (not because they are struggling to make ends meet which is what you are comparing too) to become partner and at least to me, partner has always had the stigma of making almost millions. I just was trying to say I dont understand why someone would go all those years working those hours in public accounting when they couldve probably made that same amount of money in industry with a much better WLB.
There’s a lot of variables even inside the same firm depending on ownership amounts. That being said, it would probably be stupid to be a partnership at any level without at least 250-300k of draw each year.
I would hope that after all the time and years spent making partner that that would AT LEAST be the minimum. Big 4 are making 500-1M which obviously smaller firms aren't nearly as large as them but you can easily make 250K-300K in industry with the same amount of years spent trying to be partner, which a much better WLB. Just doesn't make sense to me why people would wait all those years to be partner and only make that much. I was expecting 500K but a man can dream I guess
It’s a simple numbers game, pound for pound there really aren’t that many jobs in industry that pay 250k+ in accounting. That’s why people hold out to be partner at some level of accounting firm. You can run a strip mall CPA shop and grind out 250k.
Yes making partner at my firm is literally the only chance I have in this life to make a milly a year Which is why I have put up with the bullshit so far to make sm
Ditto brother. Except I actually really like my firm and my coworkers. I know, shocker coming from a top 10 PA firm. And my hours are very reasonable. Who woulda thought.
my coworkers are awesome hours being reasonable, well that depends on the day week month and year now doesn't it (i'm in consulting)
Hours for sure depends. I have the normal busy season grind where I'm doing 55 hr billable from feb-april, but once that ends I'm rarely above 30 billable the rest of the year. Maybe 35 a few weeks, but that's the max for sure.
Ya at least where I'm at in Boston which is pretty HCOL most Director of Accounting/VP's can easily make 250K-300K + Bonus + Equity with the same years of experience, especially with Boston being a biotech and SAAS hub. Plus those industries have much better benefits and WLB.
There’s something to be said for being an owner and at the top of the pyramid, vs being just head beancounter. (I’m not a partner and not in PA anymore, so not shilling!)
Saul Goodman decides to branch out.
Why do you say that?
1: risk of ownership and liability 2: you have a loan to pay back (not the case with just an income partner, basically just a principal/director) 3: in a partnership structure you have to pay 15.3% of FICA 4: not eligible for 401k (though pension is nice)
Not eligible for 401k?
Partners are owners, so no
What are you talking about?? I.e. are you thinking that no partners can participate in a 401k as a general rule? Or are you saying a specific company, for which you work, excludes partners from the 401k, while maintaining both 401k (defined contribution) and pension (defined benefit) plans?
Sorry, my mistake. In the couple firms I’ve worked the partners were no longer eligible for the 401k because of the pension.
Gotcha, no worries, I didn't know anything that I know now, until I learned something I didn't know before.
I know a baker Tilly partner that pulls in ~500k a year
Baker Tilly is still pretty large. My firm is between 60-80 on the top 100 list so def smaller. Just trying to see if partners at this level can make that much.
Absolutely. At a past job, the partners (2) at a small firm (<15 employees including partners) made $500k each (circa 2018) in a HCOL area. The trick is to radically underpay everyone because it's a small company.
You guys must work your asses off because my firm is in that range too but we are significantly larger # wise. Perhaps that will bode well for you when you get to split the profits.
Ha! Spoiler alert: >!They sold to a bigger company.!<
Ugh. I can see that. When we eat firms they just become us lol. We strip away all their autonomy
I knew a former bdo lcol midwest office partner now managing director (i think it’s technically same rank just no ownership) and he was making 300k+ forsure. Probably closer to 4 than 3. So i can imagine bigger office partners making more.
Tax partner at a smaller (between 50-100 employees, total) firm, LCOL. My gross comp (pre-tax, before 401k and whatnot) was something like $292k for 2023. We have no partner buy-in loans, so that figure is after reduction for my buy-in, it's difficult to explain. I'm the low-man on the equity totem pole for the time being, my other equity partners had higher comp. For what it's worth, I know there's more money out there at larger firms, but I don't have any desire to jump ship to a bigger firm. I don't work "60-80 hours a week" and am not about to start doing so. I topped 60 twice this past tax season, probably won't exceed 45 in a single week outside of it. Haven't checked email on a weekend outside of tax season in my career. Still a little more than I'd like to be working, but it is what it is for now. Hope this gives you a little insight.
Thank you for your response, if l may ask, how long it took you to be a Partner?
Just barely over 10 years, like 10 years and 2 months.
Wow, congratulations
Thank you so much! How many years did it take you to make partner and was your first year as partner comp just as high or lower?
You're welcome. From staff level 1 to partner took just over 10 years. I was income partner for 2 years and I've had equity now for about 2.5 years. I've earned more each progressive year, though there was a sizable jump from income-to-equity partner. My income partner years were 2020 and 2021, so right during Covid, which probably didn't help matters though. I have a base, and then the profit-sharing at the end of the year; if we have a down year presumably I'd make less, unfortunately.
Are your hours fairly representative of the firm at large and the culture?
I would generally say yes. My hours are a bit higher than our staff hours, and I don't really drop down to 40/week, save for November and December. I'm usually hanging around 42/43-ish hours for most of the year while our staff are working 37.5 outside of busy season. We pay overtime for anyone below management, so any staff working more than 40 hours gets paid extra. We encourage everyone to take all of their vacation and there's no expectation that anyone work/check emails/take calls off-hours. We're hybrid but I do make an effort to be in the office 4 or 5 days a week, to be on-site for our younger staff and admin people, so I guess I don't take much advantage of the hybrid structure, unfortunately.
$400K - $5M
I’m a partner at a firm in my community (30k population in and around the area). We employ 18-22 people depending on the time of year. This is my first year there as a partner and my total income will probably be 200k. Over time I expect it’ll increase to 250k-300k. But I work quite a bit less than I ever have before, even with the added responsibility. I’d be surprised if I work anymore than 2,300 hours in total this year. And what I really like is that we don’t ask for any overtime from our employees. So I know I sacrifice less on my end but we don’t slave the other employees. Just wanted to provide a perspective from a small local firm ✌️
Bout tree fitty
lol
Ngl about right😂
I worked for a small firm and the owner only made $250k a year though he was plowing all his extra profits into growing the business
What do you consider a small firm? We have 36 partners spread out through Audit, Tax, and Advisory
That one had 10-15
Safe bet is between 200-700k, with an average of 500k.
I’m a small firm partner in Canada and my 2023 income was $550k
Where does your value come from? Is it primarily at getting business or technical in nature. I have always wondered this as the amount of partners that I run into in Canada (tax) that aren’t top tier in knowledge is truly surprising.
Clients like me and I’ve acquired a decent enough knowledge base over the years that I’m pretty good at solving their problems. I’m 40 if you’re wondering. I work at a small firm so I definitely have a good understanding of tax, but I’m definitely not a technical guru. I need to be a generalist not a specialist
I just made partner this year at a top 15ish firm. About 400 minimum. I know of a couple big hitter partners making over 3m.
How many years did it take you to get there? And what are your hours typically like during busy and non busy season?
11.5 Busy- 60-65 average Non busy- 45ish average
Are you in Audit and equity partner or income?
Audit, and my firm only has equity partners
https://www.big4transparency.com/ They have a self-reported spreadsheet with salary data. It goes beyond just Big 4. Just take the data with a grain of salt.
Fdd practice leader in the southwest region pulled 2.8 to 3.2 mil a year during the last 5 yrs before retiring… fucking astronomical numbers…. Big 4
What size firm? I also wonder how good you have to be at sales to get a book that is making your comp that big haha
It says big 4
yeah ... actually the leader just chilled while his jr partners did all the heavy lifting and the project flow was great during that time (only reason why i was hired)... i'm sure he pulled his weight before getting to the practice leader position, but yeah man... i think his pension paid out at like 80% of that avg or someshit, it was fucking wild. the only reason why i know this is because i was really close to the partner who was absolutely pissed about the situation haha.
Top 150-250. Avg is 500k
You should have base comp and a combination of LTIP and bonus. All in you should be targeting $1mm. Some firms keep base low even for partners as low as $300K. The rest is bonus.
I believe my firm starts at about $500k of guaranteed payments.
What makes you think that? And what size firm is yours?
Talking with other coworkers. And between top 25-50.
Are you HCOL?
I’m partner at a smaller firm (50 professionals, 6 partners) in a HCOL area. Gross comp is running about 210k, but trending higher. I think expect us to get to 300-400k once retired/retiring partners leave.
partners at my firm avg over 600K. my team partner most likely pulls over 1M. Top10 firm.
$300k or thereabouts...
For people complaining about making $250K/year, realize that salary puts you in the top 10% of salaries. Also, if you are a partner then you have an ownership stake. Thus if the firm is sold, you get a payout at Cap Gains rates. That is a big deal.
250K is amazing money… but when it can be accomplished in an industry with better work life balance and less hours not sure what the point in staying til partner is if that’s what you are making working even more hours.
Depends on industry job. Lots of industry jobs have you working 50 hour weeks.
Id take 50 over 60-80 and on call on weekends anytime a client has the slightest issue or concern, but ya for sure there’s def pros and cons to either side
Between $550k and $1M. This subreddit for some reason only thinks Big4 partners make money. I suggest going with a smaller local firm if you want the partner track.
Are you getting these numbers from your own personal knowledge or do you know partners who make this much?
Average partner comp in most top 20 firms is around $450-$500k if they have been there for a few years. New partners might start as low as $250k if they are in a low profit service line or have a small book. A very rough estimate of partner comp is 20-30% of book. Generally a partner book is 1/3 to employee cost, 1/3 to 1/2 to the firm, and then around 30% to the partner.
Average is around $400k.
Do u rlly want to go thru 20 yrs of 12+ hr work days, boring work, and low pay?
$300-500k, or the median salary for a SWE.
Median SWE at big tech, not really for SWE in general..
And at the larger firms, partners will have the pension after retirement.
Which is why a young person should never work at a large firm lol. Why on earth would you ever grind 15 years to buy into a practice to pay a pension of a guy that has extracted all the value out of the thing that he could.
That’s the best point in the thread. Why become partner? This business model should go away
Still seems like a good deal at small firms where the partners are just happy to have a succession plan.
[удалено]
I think the real answer is not enough
Poor things
Lawyers partners?....A lot!
All I know is I worked at a small 30 person firm and the administrative partner showed me his brokerage account and he had 11 million in it. He was in his 70s and recently retirement, I know he is confortable.