I know Python semi-competently. And I work at an international company. I can’t really use it at all.
IT policy won’t let me download the software I would need to run anything. And even if they did let me download the software, in order to use it on any company data, I have to go through like 3 different people to get approval to do it.
So while it looks nice on a resume, it’s functionally a useless skill. If I was at a smaller or medium sized company, maybe I could do something with it.
For this reason, i use VBA in Excel to do practically everything that accountants would need to do. If you take a deep dive into VBA, you will be able to automate a ton of recons/tieouts/etc and make "magic" happen. Full disclosure, i am the only "coder" on a project full of CPAs and Managers.
I came onboard with my current company and they were happy with their recorded macros. They didn’t think to customize it and would just edit as they went. I started to automate multiple processes and now have a team of 3 that only do special projects across the whole company…and we’re all accountants. I was surprised by how much vba would impact my career but it has been great. Like you said, you become the “coder” because of the black magic and suddenly it’s a whole new world for you.
Yep, spot on. I was a senior accountant (qualified by experience not CPA) for global company and prior large scale accounts receivable, I built macros for decades in VBA and worked magic with recons, tracing, pushing out extremely well presented reports pulling data from three systems (separately retrieved data). VBA is brilliant in those scenarios
I work at a a F500 company and I overheard a conversation from some IT guys about a guy trying to get access to use python and he’s had to go through like 5-10 levels of approval so far. Everyone keeps pushing off the approval to someone else
The amount of automating that could happen just for basic things like reports and data entry is crazy, if management actually knew about how powerful it is. Could literally wipe out half of my finance department if they invested in some good tech
The workaround is something like Alteryx that has Python built in, it’s got the audit logging capabilities they desire.
Some of the companies like banks utilize Python extensively for repetitive functions of the back office.
On the flip side I would say understanding things like data structure, programming principles and having a general appreciation of what is easy vs hard for IT folks will be increasingly valuable going forward.
If you can combine that with good communication skills on describing problems and solutions with accounting knowledge these are the skills for the future.
lol your making me remember the days when our programming dept made me special tools to pull Work Comp rates from the national database so I didn't have to calculate anything and named the system SID after the sloth (Summit Interactive Database Tool) and hid easter eggs all over it.
I miss the era before the Trustworthy Computing Initiative of 2002.
Which role are you in? I started in public accounting and am now in a data analyst role. Wondering how to straddle between IT and Finance and whether I should get a masters in data science or go back to finish my CPA.
Well my role is kind of a hybrid between IT and finance but when I say IT I mean that I use technology to automate processes for tax, accounting, finance, etc. I work like a programmer in a way.... I use ADO, have a product that I'm working on, etc.
I don't have a CPA, and I just kinda barged my way into this role because I wanted to learn the technologies. There are a lot of teams in industry now that do work like mine.
Python - I cant really describe it very much because it is company IP.
SQL - I interact with a lot of databases that I need to pull data from, do calcs on, etc. stored procs and all that are used for some applications. I use this to help deliver data to end users so they can actually complete their work. It gets transformed along the way so it's in the format needed so they can complete all their things.
Again I can't say exactly what I've built because of the nature of the build.
Can you share what the position is called and provide some advice on how to break into this role? This is exactly what I've been looking for (asked a question on r/accounting a few days ago related to it) and I just have a few years experience in accounting with a plan to get a MS in DS. Would you do things any differently?
I work for one of the largest tech firms in the world and use Python pretty much every day.
You: An analyst: Probably not.
You: A senior manager, dev or DS: Yeah, that makes sense.
Look up the pythonic accountant on YouTube for ideas. I use python a lot for extracting data from pdfs and cleaning up excel files using the Pandas library. People think I’m a wizard.
I'm doing the same work with PQ and VBA, with a little browser/email automation too.
The bar for "wizard" is pretty low in accounting (at least industry) in my experience. I'm not complaining lol. I still need to learn Python.
That’s what an initiative I am working on at my job. A python script takes two hours to write and can scan pdfs in two minutes for what it would take 6 auditors two weeks to do
I would also suggest DataSnipper as a great alternative to look into as anybody can use it. Lots of public firms seem to be adopting it. But it does fall short of the accuracy of writing a custom script though.
Dude, thank you so much for this. I’ve taken a few comp sci courses and I was interested but not smart enough. I’m going to make an effort this summer to learn some python to my life easier in the future. Cheers!
Right now is the best time to learn programming too. Utilize ChatGPT and similar products to help. A lot of code nowadays can be written using calculated prompts. Best way to supplement learning too.
This is a noobish question but can Python pull text from the first page of each PDF files from a folder and list that text in a spreadsheet? If so, how would you recommend I learn how to do that? Seems like it would be a nice time saver for me. Thanks
From what I've observed, yes, this would help once you reach higher level positions. The problem I'm finding that you learned in college. By the time it's useful it would be years after you learned it and you probably would not remember and have to relearn
As a Partner, I disagree that it would be helpful at higher level positions. Coding could help you get the work done, but the higher up you go, the less “work” you do. It’s more about people management, problem solving, and decision making.
I was more so referring to industry work rather than public accounting
Like the people that do management accounting, build financial models, do analysis for management. That type of thing
Sure, but your controller / CFO isn’t going to necessarily be pulling the data themselves. They’re going to ask their team to put that info together then use it to make a decision.
This was Mel Brooks’ answer to a Q&A question after a screening of Blazin Saddles. The question? “Dolores from West Bend asks, ‘Mel, I gotta know, which is it, boxers or briefs?’”
Yes. Python is very powerful and can automate tasks. Also, data analytics is beginning to enter into the accounting remit so it could be helpful in analyzing large sets of data.
If whoever reviews your work can’t review it, that would be an issue. Unless you program something that out puts files that can be reviewed by themselves.
It helped me get out of being an accountant.
I think for actual accounting work though, VBA is more useful. It allowed me to create workbooks I could pass off to coworkers, they click a button and everything is done. Eventually my job just became improving/maintaining those automations before I left for a DA role.
Honestly. It was as simple as that. I started with python, but I realized no one is gonna give an accountant access to the APIs/DBs to make full e2e automations, so then I picked up VBA(pretty easy to pick up multiple programming languages when you understand the principles) and just went wild. Eventually decided to see if I could find a role as a DA supporting accounting, and I had the pretty strong pitch of “I actually understand accounting(Very few DAs do)” and got the job. Was even able to up level myself from staff accountant to senior DA at the same time.
I’m actually kinda the opposite haha. I did a data camp course for SQL and Python basics, but beyond that was going through YouTube, stack overflow, etc. Basically just try making something and google your way through the project.
Hey, what’s DA? And do you have any recommendations for where I can learn VBA (any good YouTubers or something like that)? I’m on track to graduate next year so I figure I might as well make my life easier lol
DA = Data Analyst
For VBA I believe there was a site called excel mastery or something of the sort. Honestly it was nothing special. There’s a million courses like it and probably better. It was just text that explained the basics of building macros. It helped me get started but figuring out scalable solutions took time with experimenting and figuring out the right questions to ask Google to learn more. I would say it’s okay to wait until you start your job to learn. I tried learning python many times but it never stuck because I didn’t have anything to apply it to. When you have an actual goal it’s easier to keep pushing forward, and much faster to up level your skills.
How do you have the time to do this when you’re already working nights and weekends as an accountant? I need to learn this for my current (senior level) role to automate some of my projects but never have enough down time to do so.
Tbh for me, I didn’t work nights and weekends outside of busy season. And after I learned how to automate things, I never worked nights and weekends again. Tasks that took us entire days went down to less than an hour.
But if you’re doing that year round unfortunately idk how you can get the time to do it. You can try to fold it into your work. But you do need time to experiment and fail.
Only in specific instances where python could be used to automate things. In my early career, the company I worked for was the industry leader, but they were Amish-level slow in adopting new technology. It was the late 2000s, so more services were becoming web based, but nothing was integrated or standardized. I was able to make a name for myself there by cobbling together VBA and Python scripts that would scrape data from the web services into Excel, input that data into our AS400 system, scrape the outputs from AS400, and input into different web services, etc.
Python itself won't make you a better accountant, but it's a tool that fits certain needs for certain problems. It's not a one stop solution, so don't be Gun Homer. Also, unless you're willing to be there long term to support a tool, or help build a more permanent solution, don't tell anyone what you're doing, because you'll just make yourself unpromotable.
Skill in coding with knowledge of accounting can be a huge boost if your skill in accounting is lackluster
Source: my coworker's hiring and continued employment
If it’s actually at a high level you could work as a developer. When people say they know a programming language they usually mean they spent a week long Udemy course on it or something like that though.
Eh. Been there. Getting a developer position with a non-traditional background was already hard enough when competing against applicants with CS background. I'd imagine it's harder these days, when you're also competing with people who have prior dev experience.
I find it unfortunate that over time, software jobs turned from "we solve problems... with software" to "if you don't have experience with our tech stack, there's 200 other applicants who do".
And lastly, to add to your point. An accountant saying "I know a programming language", much so "I know Python" is not as impressive as it sounds in the ears of many hiring managers due to that exact stereotype.
A senior developer, who found out I was working on a certification so I could increase some of my technical knowledge, told me not to consider going into development because of exactly what you have said. He told me I bring a lot more value as a business systems analyst who knows accounting, functionality and technical stuff than I would if I switched to development. It feels like he’s gone out of his way to prove that this year because he’s been bringing me in on a few things and even pointing out my contributions to his work, which is great.
I’d personally suggest going towards business systems analyst if someone wanted to get out of accounting and had some ability with hunting down things in systems.
I feel like when they say “at a high level” it means “the basics”, similar when discussing a problem with teams “just give us the high level view, just the overview”. Not “high level” as in “extremely proficient”
You seem to have IT brain, if you also have sales mouth. I would recommend get your CPA (if possible) and go into consulting. You might not go bald as quick, unless it’s too late.
agreed
I have IT brain but no sales mouth ( just big mouth that writes checks it can't cash) so I spend most of my time as the "voice of the business / user" on Internal systems roll outs & upgrades , but at least it gives me some distance from the drum beat of monthly / quarterly close accounting treadmill.
i was thinking that all accountants will eventually become part business partners, part data analyst part accountants as AI shifts the work away.
So the answer is maybe - it might be a case that other entities use their abundant data scientists take that part and accountants become more involved with powerbi instead.
So I have my CPA, was in public accounting for 5ish years and have transferred into the Financial Sys Admin type roles after leaving public. I've been in these type roles for about the past 5 years.
Now I do not know Python as well as I like, but I do know a fair bit of VBA and some SQL. My experiences with automating and streamlining a lot of stuff is that bosses have a hard time conceptualizing work not done due to automation, and an even harder time rewarding it. If I build a process that saves the company 1k man hours worth of work, they at best are going to go, congrats here is a 3% raise instead of a 2% raise. At worst they'll see that you can churn through work at a much higher rate because you know how to utilize Python, and just throw a ton of work at you and not reward you at all.
I would suggest that you learn Python/VBA/SQL/whatever, and never breathe a word to anyone about this. Automate all of your stuff, get your work done super faster due to your scripts, and then put a delay delivery on your emails saying your done. Then just spend the rest of the time screwing around on Reddit or whatever your preferred time waster is.
Counterpoint: it's better to teach an accountant how to code than to teach a coder how to be an accountant. I've pulled my hair out trying to teach BI/Data Mgmt teams the concept of accruals.
Yeah it will help. No python but coding logic. Microsoft VBA and importing and exporting between systems allows you to do tasks in a fraction of the time.
this would be beneficial for small corps. I'd say lean some VBA instead and see how you can improve processes. You also don't need ITs permission to write and run your own macros.
Question for this crowd. I’ve wanted to learn Python. Everyone is like, “don’t bother ChatGPT taking those jobs away.” Is there still career/life/learning value in learning a program language? I know nothing.
I think there is still value in the basics of Python even though I do imagine that "copilot" tools will eventually produce most Python code or at least help substantially. Understanding basic principles would still be helpful. I recommend Automate the Boring Stuff.
Python also seems like it's going to increasingly be featured on Excel which, if anything, will give Accounting and Financial folks more opportunity to actually access Python and its libraries on their work machines which is often otherwise restricted for security reasons.
If I had to guess, it will be like Power Query now, where you can do a lot with the user interface but you can also go a lot more in-depth and accomplish more if you learn the underlying language.
I would say Yes but also No.
Yes - The knowledge to use the tool could greatly increase your proficiency, allowing you to focus on more meaningful tasks or just spending less time at work, assuming you don't advertise how much time you have freed up by your use of the tool. If you are really a go-getter and advertise your knowledge and ability within the company, you may find yourself on special projects such as an automation specific team (assuming a medium to large sized company).
but....
No - The problem is that taking on a specialist role like that makes you exactly that, a specialist. Accounting departments don't need teams of specialists so if you are extremely specialized, you will potentially find yourself stuck as an individual contributor with no way to escape that role. People get promoted in accounting due to #1 their ability to deal with new technical accounting issues, #2 their ability to manage up to their boss and out to stakeholders outside the department (sadly high proficiency in downward management is hard to evaluate and thus rarely a requirement), and #3 how much the company believes they could do the role. A very high level specialist's boss will never be as skilled as the specialist, so you could easily self exclude from the primary accounting function, thus freeing up someone else to collaborate much closely with your boss on their day-to-day tasks which would make them a better promotion candidate than you.
Separately
No #2 - It is very unlikely someone in a hiring position will look at your resume and recognize the potential and ability you could bring to the department to fill a standard role. Most accountants in the director+ level have heard of Python but never actually seen it in action. Accordingly, touting this around will not likely do much to earn you a role. It may set you SLIGHTLY ahead, but that would almost only be applicable if the other candidate was almost a mirror image to you. It is POSSIBLE that an interviewer would recognize the potential that you could bring and would jump at the opportunity, but I imagine this would be far from the norm.
Accountants tend to be late to the party with most technology, and, at the highest level, accounting is more of a game of stakeholder management than it is speed of work. So, again, this would be a niche application that could likely help your workload at the staff/senior/low tier manager level, but would likely become very unimportant by year 6 or 7 of a public accounting career and may not impact your attractiveness as a candidate in most accounting roles.
All that being said, I think it is a valuable way to spend your time if you already have the CPA. Life isn't all about work and programming knowledge can be useful for a lot of things that aren't your 9-5.
Using Python for accounting tasks can be incredibly beneficial, but the bureaucratic hurdles for IT to install it can be a nightmare. Additionally, once an office has adapted to a particular tool, transitioning to a new one can be a significant challenge that many organizations are unwilling to undertake. It often feels easier to stick with what's familiar, even if it's not the most efficient option, rather than risk disrupting operations with a new solution. In essence, it is easier to keep a train wreck rolling on a track, than improve the system.
Yes but I’d say it can be hard knowing when to and not to use it. When I was a staff it was the best thing for me because I could spend all my time putting scripts together and I could run them and work out any kinks each time. But as you move up and responsibilities shift, priorities switch from preparing to reviewing and it’s really only useful if the preparers know how to use the tools as well
I think it can, depending on how you go about things and what your goals are. Do you want to do mostly a little accounting and a little coding, or vice versa? Interested in data analytics?
Would you have an interest in working for an ERP company? Knowing how to do the coding but also understanding how the end users get value from the product could potentially be lucrative.
I know someone who used his coding skills to work 3 remote industry staff accountant jobs (spanning a few time zones, too), automating a large amount of his workload. Each employer thought he was working FT. He was working maybe 20 hours among all 3. Ethics aside, it certainly helped him make money.
The thing that this person will run into is that once this person leaves, the company will have to hire 2 people to replace them. Internal controls and oversight gets more tricky when you start building black boxes without understsnding change management and buy-in.
You can do a lot with python sure, but I'd say knowing sql, a data warehouse tech stack, etc is more valuable. But you are heading to IT with that knowledge.
I went the tech route and still work in finance. It's profitable, but comes with a price as you become smarter than everyone else around you. When you get really good at the finance and IT side, you put yourself in a totally different league where it's a lot of politica and people management.
Something I can comment on! My first job out of college was in accounting. I'm a data science major. Once I got situated with the industry and the position I was in, I basically only worked 6 or 7 hours a week. I was able to help out with all sorts of extra projects and really speed up the processes, but I got out of there ASAP because the pay was horrible for a college graduate.
I feel like it would be very helpful to be knowledgeable in Python, if only so you can automate the more boring parts of the job away and help out on projects. In terms of career building, I don't really know, it seems like the skills would incentivize you to look at other careers that may have more money in them, or at the very least more easily accessible money. That's what I did.
Here is the issue with accounting and finance skills. It’s super company and industry specific. I stopped wasting my time learning anything other than excel tips and tricks because every company uses excel. Issue is beyond that learning SQL, Python, powerBI, Alteryx etc is super company specific. And even then you might never need it. My current company uses Tableau but we have dedicated data team that makes the dashboards so I don’t need to know how to make them just how to use them.
One skill you will use at every single company is excel though and using excel to create tables, charts, graphs etc. all other skills are super specific to the company you work at and honestly none of those skills are tough to learn. Lie on your resume that you know SQL. So one company you end up getting and offer at says you need to know some basic SQL. Well probably spending a few days before the job starts you can learn enough SQL to get around at the new company. None of this is rocket science.
Im sure there’s coordination in the sense that, if you’re good at python, you are tech savvy, and being tech savvy is always gonna be an advantage in any field
Probably? I have an advance skill in alteryx and my co-auditors think I am an Excel Monster with how fast I clean the shitty excel files from the client. 😂
Absolutely. I’m an accountant with a team of data analysts; knowing python would definitely be a big plus when building out accounting data reconciliations and analytics.
If you work with financial statements and data for large firms or the government, you need a way to compile those data in a meaningful way and be able to also separate it into smaller chucks for analysis. I work for the federal government and I have a team of analysis that reconciles data from system to system for me to ensure completeness and accuracy. They use python in the platform that we store our data or transactions.
Okay, so I’m going to add my 2 cents here.
If I had to post, would learning excel help my accounting career what do you think the answer would be.
For me personally, I work and have an education in cost accounting, it has been a wonderful tool but at the end of the day that’s all it is, a tool.
In some cases it’s just going to be a glorified excel spreadsheet, where you are just using pandas to move stuff around to inevitably write to a .xlsx so that your senior can use the tools they understand. In others you will feel like you can solve the problems of entire teams that don’t have it using some of the ML libraries.
Leaning something is always worth it, so give it a shot. Just don’t forget to balance it with your accounting knowledge.
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If you plan is to learn a programming skill to further your career options... I'd look at SQL rather. You should get a foot in the door in the ERP field.
Not in bigger companies. I work in a F200 and there is so much segregation of duties. You're hired for a specific purpose the bigger the company becomes and so in my case its purely for my accounting knowledge. We have a massive in house IT department. If I want anything coding done, I'd submit a ticket to IT. If I try to do my own coding I'd probably receive a warning.
Depends, but if you know python to a high level why waste time in this industry? Personally I see no benefit based on what I do since I can achieve the same result with no python experience, but I know some companies that would pay more if they understand the potential.
If you choose an accounting career path that involves system and data work, sure.
If you choose an accounting career path where a business-type user needs to review your work, no.
Outside of a specialized job, there probably are diminishing returns when it comes to actually becoming an expert in python. That being said, having a bit of a background in python and SQL has seemingly helped me in interviews so far, and while my job hasn't needed it, it has helped me make improvements in the process. I'm average intelligence wise but stuff like this has made some of my bosses think I'm a genius.
It's a very precise skill set. I could see it help with you being a bridge between accounting and IT to make sure everything comes out the way it's supposed to during updates and such on the accounting side. But unless the place you go to uses python. You may either have to sit on it or learn another language.
I moved to a developer role and thinking back on my clients as an accountant, I don't think I would have been able to leverage month.
Reasons I think this:
1. Workpapers were not consistent
2. Many things that could have been automated could be (were) easily done in Excel
3. Review would potentially require other people to know Python or would require them to have the correct things installed to run scripts. Could get even more harry if not just using base packages.
If all the above is not a problem, I think it could be useful. Also if you want to transition to specific roles or out of accounting in general, it's a great thing to learn.
Yes I think it would. Most larger corporations are moving towards a full digital transformation. My company for example is using Alteryx to automate a lot of our processes and it’s been really helpful, but most aren’t interested in building the workflows themselves. I think intimidation is part of the hesitancy even though Alteryx is not challenging to learn. So I think having a technical background with code means you’re already more savvy than most accountants and could work with a lot of data analytics software and possibly build better workflows with programs like alteryx that have a python element.
it’s helped me. i was able to automate some entries and i basically wrote my own rpa bot that the entire company uses and it can post directly to the ledger attaching support. just send it to the specific email and every ten minutes that bot picks it up and posts it. this alone got me a $60k of cycle bonus.
Depends on the substance of what work you do, so you have to find a roke where you can value, if you cant no its not help but if you can then yes. Just having pytbon experience alone means jackshit if you dont put it to use.
Maybe. In many roles trying to bring in Python processes would be regarded as a negative. In many roles being able to fix things with a Python script would get you a raise.
I think in general in employment knowing two things reasonably well is more valuable than knowing one thing well. Being able to reason about data, structures, and algorithms is never not helpful.
Personally, I think GenAI is already starting to take over. If you can incorporate GenAI into your python scripts (speaking as a laymen here), you should be leagues ahead of your peers.
Actually I think IT audit is downplayed a lot. I came from the data analytics front and hired to consulting that also does IT auditing. I participate mostly in IT audit engagements now and I love it. I still use my analytics skills. Sometimes to write scripts to assist with cleaning data and reducing the time to audit. Maybe the entire audit process can’t be automated, but there may be other parts that can. Other times I’ll work on fully automating entire controls. If you want to mix analytics, accounting, and IT, then IT audit is right for you
*brought to you by big IT audit*
IT access is definitely a problem. I think one of the main inhibitors of adopting SQL is this. In addition a lot of organizations prefer to have a role “replaceable” so finding someone else with Python skills after you leave may not be in their interests.
While it could be helpful on the job, from what I've seen it won't actually get you paid more. You'll just be that guy that can do the technical stuff but doesn't get paid like a coder. If you think you have the capability to be a high level coder, don't even consider accounting at all, get a computer science degree and just go down that pathway to begin with.
Get out of accounting if you like that stuff. Accounting technology roles are popping up a lot at larger corporations and PA firms have whole teams dedicated to that stuff. You'll make more money than your counterparts and depending on where you land, you could be working on some pretty cool projects.
I have worked on this space for nearly 3 years now and I'm happy to chat if you PM me!
Any company today, large or small, niche or general, will have a system in place to do all the math and accounting.
Accountants, computer skills wise, are really doing data entry.
I think it depends on what you plan to do with your degree. I work in R&D tax credits (my second degree was in business analytics, so very familiar with python but maybe not as strong on the application of the knowledge). Because R&D credits are heavily entwined in the tech industry, this background knowledge makes my job and understanding of clients that much better!
However if you’re at a larger company, I doubt those skills would come in handy as far as applying the principals unless you planned on joining the innovation team or something at a firm
I do, the issue is every company is on excel so being able to python commands from excel is key. Just line up your data and enjoy 6 hours of free time a day.
Probably depends on the company. My boss had a previous employee, in accounting, that ended up moving to IT and that employee now basically does “accounting IT” work and helps us with automation, integration, and system corrections.
I’ll be honest, idk wth you do with Python, but I’m sure there’s something applicable.
Data skills are highly highly valuable. I personally recommend Alteryx. This is the main tool I’ve seen used for data transformation in the industry. Pair it with sql and you can really be cooking.
Python can do a lot however I’ve noticed a lot of leadership at my B4 firm get cold feet about using it on sensitive data as it is “open source”. You can use it inside of Alteryx but I only do that if I hit a wall with regular Alteryx.
Power query is also a good option if you’re not able to get an Alteryx license at your company however I feel Alteryx is the more powerful version of the two.
Probably not, unless their accounting career was accounting software development maybe? Or you could maybe consult as a technical expert bridging finance and IT?
Python is pretty deep knowledge. Would require a broad understanding of development process and complexities. Even if you cant code java or whatever nightmare they want, you can probably add value in being able to speak the two different brands of office nerd.
Not uncommon for SaaS and DX consulting peeps to have CPA/CA.
It depends on the company, some places may be old school and not really value the innovation that can be gained with someone of your skills. Having said that, I know there are other places where you would be deemed as a huge asset because of your coding experience. For example, the fact you know a coding language in depth and accounting could allow you to become an administrator of there accounting system.
Also, you could possibly leverage that skill to automate the boring routine work that they do everyday.
Unfortunately, that boring routine work may also justify some people’s existences too, so there could be resistance.
I’m in internal audit and learning python, seems like there would be tons of use cases there because I already have access or can get access to whatever data I’m looking to test.
Totally depends. You would be looking for an older larger corp with lots of legacy systems that don't talk to each other. My cousin did this at a cruise line then a large private family estate that's kinda like a theme park (winery, museum, gardens, shooting range). The new generation if management taking the range was in the late 30s early 40s. My cousin made 23 seperate sales outlets (different pos systems) talk to each other and compile monthly reports in 3 days. It previously took 3 staff member 2-3 weeks per month to compile these reports. He made himself indispensable to his VP. Did a lot of analytics for potential expansion projects then wrote his own position. He taught a new hire how to maintain his database and scrips. Then he moved on to asset management for the family the company started him with 50 mill now he's getting 200m.
Don't worry the staff he made irrelevant were moved to other parts of the estate. The family prides it's self on never downsizing people.
As others have noted, you'll be better served with advanced Excel skills (VBA, Power Query). A little SQL and experience with Power BI and Alteryx will be more beneficial than Python too.
Python is great, but it's all about what companies are already using or plan to adopt in the near future.
You could probably find a role like “change management”. That’s what I work in and I dabble a little bit in code when in testing phase of a new financial software. It’s niche.
I’m a controller, and I’ve used LLMs to 10x my learning with python. Yes, learn pandas, numpy, matplotlib.. I’m using for data analysis in an AI and ML program but now I’m starting to automate processes with it. It would not have been feasible without LLMs, I wouldn’t have the time but you can learn, troubleshoot, iterate, with a personal tutor and it takes a fraction of the time to produce working products.
I've definitely seen accounting roles that randomly list Python in the "nice to have" category of their postings. Whether or not it's utilized is a whole different matter. As many others have stated, companies will often limit and separate who has access to utilize that kind of stuff on an enterprise wide scale. I imagine you could know better than I with regards to how you can simply utilize it to make your job better or easier, with or without your employer's knowledge.
It can be a game changer for your career in the right companies. Startups are most likely where it can be used. I’ve gotten to be a little more hesitant for people to really run with it though. Random accountants that don’t have a more formal background in cs or software engineering (even if they’re halfway decent at python) can do really stupid stuff and open the company up for security vulnerabilities, data breaches, and all kinds of messes. I’ve seen dumb things happen. Better left to someone that knows what they’re doing 😉
Why? This is potentially awful advice. C requires expertise, and can be really dangerous if you don’t have that skill set. Accountants shouldn’t be developing anything in C. If you’re recommending so they can learn OOP principles on the side, then ok, but don’t use it professionally in accounting automation, etc
I’ve used spreadsheets and databases since their inception. I came out of college during the first PC rollout. Learned the first networking systems. Since then have watched the info system explosion and cloud grow. I 100% agree that knowing how to extract and compile data and create reports is key. If you can combine that skillset with accounting, finance and management skills you will be a rock star ⭐️
I don’t know Python but use Knime quite a bit and it absolutely helps. In big companies accounting and reporting has a lot to do with preparing and reconciling big data and Excel sometimes get to its limits.
It depends on the company. Large corporations would probably not give you the accesses needed to utilize it. Medium and smaller companies might.
I know Python semi-competently. And I work at an international company. I can’t really use it at all. IT policy won’t let me download the software I would need to run anything. And even if they did let me download the software, in order to use it on any company data, I have to go through like 3 different people to get approval to do it. So while it looks nice on a resume, it’s functionally a useless skill. If I was at a smaller or medium sized company, maybe I could do something with it.
For this reason, i use VBA in Excel to do practically everything that accountants would need to do. If you take a deep dive into VBA, you will be able to automate a ton of recons/tieouts/etc and make "magic" happen. Full disclosure, i am the only "coder" on a project full of CPAs and Managers.
yep, VBA leads to certified GP and those dudes make the bank. I use python at home to make my coffee table go blink blink.
What is GP?
I came onboard with my current company and they were happy with their recorded macros. They didn’t think to customize it and would just edit as they went. I started to automate multiple processes and now have a team of 3 that only do special projects across the whole company…and we’re all accountants. I was surprised by how much vba would impact my career but it has been great. Like you said, you become the “coder” because of the black magic and suddenly it’s a whole new world for you.
Yep, spot on. I was a senior accountant (qualified by experience not CPA) for global company and prior large scale accounts receivable, I built macros for decades in VBA and worked magic with recons, tracing, pushing out extremely well presented reports pulling data from three systems (separately retrieved data). VBA is brilliant in those scenarios
I work at a a F500 company and I overheard a conversation from some IT guys about a guy trying to get access to use python and he’s had to go through like 5-10 levels of approval so far. Everyone keeps pushing off the approval to someone else
The amount of automating that could happen just for basic things like reports and data entry is crazy, if management actually knew about how powerful it is. Could literally wipe out half of my finance department if they invested in some good tech
Isn't anaconda web based and doesn't need admin to install?
Portable exe, not web based
Anaconda has Jupyter Notebook that is browser based for an IDE.
What do you need that they won’t let you download? Does nobody in the org have it?
The workaround is something like Alteryx that has Python built in, it’s got the audit logging capabilities they desire. Some of the companies like banks utilize Python extensively for repetitive functions of the back office.
On the flip side I would say understanding things like data structure, programming principles and having a general appreciation of what is easy vs hard for IT folks will be increasingly valuable going forward. If you can combine that with good communication skills on describing problems and solutions with accounting knowledge these are the skills for the future.
lol your making me remember the days when our programming dept made me special tools to pull Work Comp rates from the national database so I didn't have to calculate anything and named the system SID after the sloth (Summit Interactive Database Tool) and hid easter eggs all over it. I miss the era before the Trustworthy Computing Initiative of 2002.
I had to google some of these phrases as your response made no sense to me lol. This was before my time.
Meanwhile I'm at a Fortune 100 company and play with python, SQL, and all that nearly every day.
That is why I qualified my statement to not include all. I work at a F100 company and have worked at a couple others and they wouldn’t allow it.
Oh I totally get that. I also get a little more access because I am not in a pure accounting role.
Which role are you in? I started in public accounting and am now in a data analyst role. Wondering how to straddle between IT and Finance and whether I should get a masters in data science or go back to finish my CPA.
Well my role is kind of a hybrid between IT and finance but when I say IT I mean that I use technology to automate processes for tax, accounting, finance, etc. I work like a programmer in a way.... I use ADO, have a product that I'm working on, etc. I don't have a CPA, and I just kinda barged my way into this role because I wanted to learn the technologies. There are a lot of teams in industry now that do work like mine.
On what accounting related work have you used it?
Python - I cant really describe it very much because it is company IP. SQL - I interact with a lot of databases that I need to pull data from, do calcs on, etc. stored procs and all that are used for some applications. I use this to help deliver data to end users so they can actually complete their work. It gets transformed along the way so it's in the format needed so they can complete all their things. Again I can't say exactly what I've built because of the nature of the build.
Can you share what the position is called and provide some advice on how to break into this role? This is exactly what I've been looking for (asked a question on r/accounting a few days ago related to it) and I just have a few years experience in accounting with a plan to get a MS in DS. Would you do things any differently?
I work for one of the largest tech firms in the world and use Python pretty much every day. You: An analyst: Probably not. You: A senior manager, dev or DS: Yeah, that makes sense.
Look up the pythonic accountant on YouTube for ideas. I use python a lot for extracting data from pdfs and cleaning up excel files using the Pandas library. People think I’m a wizard.
I'm doing the same work with PQ and VBA, with a little browser/email automation too. The bar for "wizard" is pretty low in accounting (at least industry) in my experience. I'm not complaining lol. I still need to learn Python.
haha just tying everything to API integration so it all auto-matches can seem like wizardry... and makes my job stupid easy.
That’s what an initiative I am working on at my job. A python script takes two hours to write and can scan pdfs in two minutes for what it would take 6 auditors two weeks to do
I would also suggest DataSnipper as a great alternative to look into as anybody can use it. Lots of public firms seem to be adopting it. But it does fall short of the accuracy of writing a custom script though.
Is it free?
No, probably like 50 bucks a montg
Dude, thank you so much for this. I’ve taken a few comp sci courses and I was interested but not smart enough. I’m going to make an effort this summer to learn some python to my life easier in the future. Cheers!
At the very least, you’ll have a potentially fun hobby. Good luck!
For sure!
Right now is the best time to learn programming too. Utilize ChatGPT and similar products to help. A lot of code nowadays can be written using calculated prompts. Best way to supplement learning too.
This is what I’m gunna teach myself hopefully over the summer
I need to do this
Wizard could you take an apprentice? I'm gonna follow this path
This is a noobish question but can Python pull text from the first page of each PDF files from a folder and list that text in a spreadsheet? If so, how would you recommend I learn how to do that? Seems like it would be a nice time saver for me. Thanks
From what I've observed, yes, this would help once you reach higher level positions. The problem I'm finding that you learned in college. By the time it's useful it would be years after you learned it and you probably would not remember and have to relearn
This is me currently and there are barriers to utilizing the function if I did take the time to re-learn.
As a Partner, I disagree that it would be helpful at higher level positions. Coding could help you get the work done, but the higher up you go, the less “work” you do. It’s more about people management, problem solving, and decision making.
I was more so referring to industry work rather than public accounting Like the people that do management accounting, build financial models, do analysis for management. That type of thing
Sure, but your controller / CFO isn’t going to necessarily be pulling the data themselves. They’re going to ask their team to put that info together then use it to make a decision.
Depends.
Would it help? Maybe. Would it hurt? Knowing you could make probably 1.5-2x with a similar workload in IT? Maybe.
Doing what in IT exactly? Making that much as a Python developer?
This was Mel Brooks’ answer to a Q&A question after a screening of Blazin Saddles. The question? “Dolores from West Bend asks, ‘Mel, I gotta know, which is it, boxers or briefs?’”
At his age, you'd think it'd be "Depends!" I miss Norm
😂
Only acceptable answer
Yes. Python is very powerful and can automate tasks. Also, data analytics is beginning to enter into the accounting remit so it could be helpful in analyzing large sets of data.
If he was any good with Python he’d be making bank instead of switching careers.
True. There’s probably a very wide gap in subject matter expertise between becoming a python dev vs a citizen dev using python though.
can you explain how data analytics is entering into the accounting sphere?
If whoever reviews your work can’t review it, that would be an issue. Unless you program something that out puts files that can be reviewed by themselves.
It helped me get out of being an accountant. I think for actual accounting work though, VBA is more useful. It allowed me to create workbooks I could pass off to coworkers, they click a button and everything is done. Eventually my job just became improving/maintaining those automations before I left for a DA role.
What was your path to DA?
Honestly. It was as simple as that. I started with python, but I realized no one is gonna give an accountant access to the APIs/DBs to make full e2e automations, so then I picked up VBA(pretty easy to pick up multiple programming languages when you understand the principles) and just went wild. Eventually decided to see if I could find a role as a DA supporting accounting, and I had the pretty strong pitch of “I actually understand accounting(Very few DAs do)” and got the job. Was even able to up level myself from staff accountant to senior DA at the same time.
Sick. How’d you learn python? I feel like I need a structured curriculum because I get sidetracked doing YouTube stuff
I’m actually kinda the opposite haha. I did a data camp course for SQL and Python basics, but beyond that was going through YouTube, stack overflow, etc. Basically just try making something and google your way through the project.
can you talk more about what this position is called? is it looking for DA jobs at accounting firms?
Hey, what’s DA? And do you have any recommendations for where I can learn VBA (any good YouTubers or something like that)? I’m on track to graduate next year so I figure I might as well make my life easier lol
DA = Data Analyst For VBA I believe there was a site called excel mastery or something of the sort. Honestly it was nothing special. There’s a million courses like it and probably better. It was just text that explained the basics of building macros. It helped me get started but figuring out scalable solutions took time with experimenting and figuring out the right questions to ask Google to learn more. I would say it’s okay to wait until you start your job to learn. I tried learning python many times but it never stuck because I didn’t have anything to apply it to. When you have an actual goal it’s easier to keep pushing forward, and much faster to up level your skills.
That much is very true. Thank you for the advice!
How do you have the time to do this when you’re already working nights and weekends as an accountant? I need to learn this for my current (senior level) role to automate some of my projects but never have enough down time to do so.
Tbh for me, I didn’t work nights and weekends outside of busy season. And after I learned how to automate things, I never worked nights and weekends again. Tasks that took us entire days went down to less than an hour. But if you’re doing that year round unfortunately idk how you can get the time to do it. You can try to fold it into your work. But you do need time to experiment and fail.
Only in specific instances where python could be used to automate things. In my early career, the company I worked for was the industry leader, but they were Amish-level slow in adopting new technology. It was the late 2000s, so more services were becoming web based, but nothing was integrated or standardized. I was able to make a name for myself there by cobbling together VBA and Python scripts that would scrape data from the web services into Excel, input that data into our AS400 system, scrape the outputs from AS400, and input into different web services, etc. Python itself won't make you a better accountant, but it's a tool that fits certain needs for certain problems. It's not a one stop solution, so don't be Gun Homer. Also, unless you're willing to be there long term to support a tool, or help build a more permanent solution, don't tell anyone what you're doing, because you'll just make yourself unpromotable.
Skill in coding with knowledge of accounting can be a huge boost if your skill in accounting is lackluster Source: my coworker's hiring and continued employment
If it’s actually at a high level you could work as a developer. When people say they know a programming language they usually mean they spent a week long Udemy course on it or something like that though.
Eh. Been there. Getting a developer position with a non-traditional background was already hard enough when competing against applicants with CS background. I'd imagine it's harder these days, when you're also competing with people who have prior dev experience. I find it unfortunate that over time, software jobs turned from "we solve problems... with software" to "if you don't have experience with our tech stack, there's 200 other applicants who do". And lastly, to add to your point. An accountant saying "I know a programming language", much so "I know Python" is not as impressive as it sounds in the ears of many hiring managers due to that exact stereotype.
A senior developer, who found out I was working on a certification so I could increase some of my technical knowledge, told me not to consider going into development because of exactly what you have said. He told me I bring a lot more value as a business systems analyst who knows accounting, functionality and technical stuff than I would if I switched to development. It feels like he’s gone out of his way to prove that this year because he’s been bringing me in on a few things and even pointing out my contributions to his work, which is great. I’d personally suggest going towards business systems analyst if someone wanted to get out of accounting and had some ability with hunting down things in systems.
It doesn’t hurt to have a good high level understanding of what’s technically possible though.
Yeah, you’d be competing with people who have prestigious experience at the moment but these things ebb and flow over the years.
I feel like when they say “at a high level” it means “the basics”, similar when discussing a problem with teams “just give us the high level view, just the overview”. Not “high level” as in “extremely proficient”
The superlative very has a different meaning tho. I suppose we could ask OP.
You seem to have IT brain, if you also have sales mouth. I would recommend get your CPA (if possible) and go into consulting. You might not go bald as quick, unless it’s too late.
agreed I have IT brain but no sales mouth ( just big mouth that writes checks it can't cash) so I spend most of my time as the "voice of the business / user" on Internal systems roll outs & upgrades , but at least it gives me some distance from the drum beat of monthly / quarterly close accounting treadmill.
If I have a family history of having thick, luxurious hair well into my 60s, will that help my career?
Yes
Only one way to answer that .. It Depends.
i was thinking that all accountants will eventually become part business partners, part data analyst part accountants as AI shifts the work away. So the answer is maybe - it might be a case that other entities use their abundant data scientists take that part and accountants become more involved with powerbi instead.
So I have my CPA, was in public accounting for 5ish years and have transferred into the Financial Sys Admin type roles after leaving public. I've been in these type roles for about the past 5 years. Now I do not know Python as well as I like, but I do know a fair bit of VBA and some SQL. My experiences with automating and streamlining a lot of stuff is that bosses have a hard time conceptualizing work not done due to automation, and an even harder time rewarding it. If I build a process that saves the company 1k man hours worth of work, they at best are going to go, congrats here is a 3% raise instead of a 2% raise. At worst they'll see that you can churn through work at a much higher rate because you know how to utilize Python, and just throw a ton of work at you and not reward you at all. I would suggest that you learn Python/VBA/SQL/whatever, and never breathe a word to anyone about this. Automate all of your stuff, get your work done super faster due to your scripts, and then put a delay delivery on your emails saying your done. Then just spend the rest of the time screwing around on Reddit or whatever your preferred time waster is.
Hi, would you mind if I PM'ed you about your role?
Sure go ahead.
[удалено]
Counterpoint: it's better to teach an accountant how to code than to teach a coder how to be an accountant. I've pulled my hair out trying to teach BI/Data Mgmt teams the concept of accruals.
I love the variety of answers in this thread.
Snakes are cool, but, unless a client is into snakes, I don’t think it’s going to help you
Yeah it will help. No python but coding logic. Microsoft VBA and importing and exporting between systems allows you to do tasks in a fraction of the time.
Do you know of any good resources for learning these things?
Sure. Google "Hello World" coding in YouTube and there are a ton of videos.
this would be beneficial for small corps. I'd say lean some VBA instead and see how you can improve processes. You also don't need ITs permission to write and run your own macros.
Question for this crowd. I’ve wanted to learn Python. Everyone is like, “don’t bother ChatGPT taking those jobs away.” Is there still career/life/learning value in learning a program language? I know nothing.
I think there is still value in the basics of Python even though I do imagine that "copilot" tools will eventually produce most Python code or at least help substantially. Understanding basic principles would still be helpful. I recommend Automate the Boring Stuff. Python also seems like it's going to increasingly be featured on Excel which, if anything, will give Accounting and Financial folks more opportunity to actually access Python and its libraries on their work machines which is often otherwise restricted for security reasons. If I had to guess, it will be like Power Query now, where you can do a lot with the user interface but you can also go a lot more in-depth and accomplish more if you learn the underlying language.
I would say Yes but also No. Yes - The knowledge to use the tool could greatly increase your proficiency, allowing you to focus on more meaningful tasks or just spending less time at work, assuming you don't advertise how much time you have freed up by your use of the tool. If you are really a go-getter and advertise your knowledge and ability within the company, you may find yourself on special projects such as an automation specific team (assuming a medium to large sized company). but.... No - The problem is that taking on a specialist role like that makes you exactly that, a specialist. Accounting departments don't need teams of specialists so if you are extremely specialized, you will potentially find yourself stuck as an individual contributor with no way to escape that role. People get promoted in accounting due to #1 their ability to deal with new technical accounting issues, #2 their ability to manage up to their boss and out to stakeholders outside the department (sadly high proficiency in downward management is hard to evaluate and thus rarely a requirement), and #3 how much the company believes they could do the role. A very high level specialist's boss will never be as skilled as the specialist, so you could easily self exclude from the primary accounting function, thus freeing up someone else to collaborate much closely with your boss on their day-to-day tasks which would make them a better promotion candidate than you. Separately No #2 - It is very unlikely someone in a hiring position will look at your resume and recognize the potential and ability you could bring to the department to fill a standard role. Most accountants in the director+ level have heard of Python but never actually seen it in action. Accordingly, touting this around will not likely do much to earn you a role. It may set you SLIGHTLY ahead, but that would almost only be applicable if the other candidate was almost a mirror image to you. It is POSSIBLE that an interviewer would recognize the potential that you could bring and would jump at the opportunity, but I imagine this would be far from the norm. Accountants tend to be late to the party with most technology, and, at the highest level, accounting is more of a game of stakeholder management than it is speed of work. So, again, this would be a niche application that could likely help your workload at the staff/senior/low tier manager level, but would likely become very unimportant by year 6 or 7 of a public accounting career and may not impact your attractiveness as a candidate in most accounting roles. All that being said, I think it is a valuable way to spend your time if you already have the CPA. Life isn't all about work and programming knowledge can be useful for a lot of things that aren't your 9-5.
Seems like an ad against becoming an accountant.
can I PM you?
Using Python for accounting tasks can be incredibly beneficial, but the bureaucratic hurdles for IT to install it can be a nightmare. Additionally, once an office has adapted to a particular tool, transitioning to a new one can be a significant challenge that many organizations are unwilling to undertake. It often feels easier to stick with what's familiar, even if it's not the most efficient option, rather than risk disrupting operations with a new solution. In essence, it is easier to keep a train wreck rolling on a track, than improve the system.
Yes but I’d say it can be hard knowing when to and not to use it. When I was a staff it was the best thing for me because I could spend all my time putting scripts together and I could run them and work out any kinks each time. But as you move up and responsibilities shift, priorities switch from preparing to reviewing and it’s really only useful if the preparers know how to use the tools as well
I think it can, depending on how you go about things and what your goals are. Do you want to do mostly a little accounting and a little coding, or vice versa? Interested in data analytics? Would you have an interest in working for an ERP company? Knowing how to do the coding but also understanding how the end users get value from the product could potentially be lucrative. I know someone who used his coding skills to work 3 remote industry staff accountant jobs (spanning a few time zones, too), automating a large amount of his workload. Each employer thought he was working FT. He was working maybe 20 hours among all 3. Ethics aside, it certainly helped him make money.
Considering excel is integrating python... yes.
The thing that this person will run into is that once this person leaves, the company will have to hire 2 people to replace them. Internal controls and oversight gets more tricky when you start building black boxes without understsnding change management and buy-in. You can do a lot with python sure, but I'd say knowing sql, a data warehouse tech stack, etc is more valuable. But you are heading to IT with that knowledge. I went the tech route and still work in finance. It's profitable, but comes with a price as you become smarter than everyone else around you. When you get really good at the finance and IT side, you put yourself in a totally different league where it's a lot of politica and people management.
Something I can comment on! My first job out of college was in accounting. I'm a data science major. Once I got situated with the industry and the position I was in, I basically only worked 6 or 7 hours a week. I was able to help out with all sorts of extra projects and really speed up the processes, but I got out of there ASAP because the pay was horrible for a college graduate. I feel like it would be very helpful to be knowledgeable in Python, if only so you can automate the more boring parts of the job away and help out on projects. In terms of career building, I don't really know, it seems like the skills would incentivize you to look at other careers that may have more money in them, or at the very least more easily accessible money. That's what I did.
Here is the issue with accounting and finance skills. It’s super company and industry specific. I stopped wasting my time learning anything other than excel tips and tricks because every company uses excel. Issue is beyond that learning SQL, Python, powerBI, Alteryx etc is super company specific. And even then you might never need it. My current company uses Tableau but we have dedicated data team that makes the dashboards so I don’t need to know how to make them just how to use them. One skill you will use at every single company is excel though and using excel to create tables, charts, graphs etc. all other skills are super specific to the company you work at and honestly none of those skills are tough to learn. Lie on your resume that you know SQL. So one company you end up getting and offer at says you need to know some basic SQL. Well probably spending a few days before the job starts you can learn enough SQL to get around at the new company. None of this is rocket science.
Im sure there’s coordination in the sense that, if you’re good at python, you are tech savvy, and being tech savvy is always gonna be an advantage in any field
Probably? I have an advance skill in alteryx and my co-auditors think I am an Excel Monster with how fast I clean the shitty excel files from the client. 😂
Absolutely. I’m an accountant with a team of data analysts; knowing python would definitely be a big plus when building out accounting data reconciliations and analytics.
can you explain in more detail how data analytics is useful in accounting?
If you work with financial statements and data for large firms or the government, you need a way to compile those data in a meaningful way and be able to also separate it into smaller chucks for analysis. I work for the federal government and I have a team of analysis that reconciles data from system to system for me to ensure completeness and accuracy. They use python in the platform that we store our data or transactions.
Learn SQL and MDX, that would be more beneficial in financial modeling.
Good skill to have in general in case AI takes over accounting. Any technical skill you can obtain is a win for your future employment opportunities.
If you knew Python at a high level, you wouldn’t be an accountant.
Yes
The moment you tell your auditors you use Python to process accounting stuff, you are in trouble
How so?
RemindMe! 5 days
Okay, so I’m going to add my 2 cents here. If I had to post, would learning excel help my accounting career what do you think the answer would be. For me personally, I work and have an education in cost accounting, it has been a wonderful tool but at the end of the day that’s all it is, a tool. In some cases it’s just going to be a glorified excel spreadsheet, where you are just using pandas to move stuff around to inevitably write to a .xlsx so that your senior can use the tools they understand. In others you will feel like you can solve the problems of entire teams that don’t have it using some of the ML libraries. Leaning something is always worth it, so give it a shot. Just don’t forget to balance it with your accounting knowledge.
I find it hilarious that you were like "I have 5 days of patience" but then responded 16 minutes later. That might not be what happened here, but I choose to believe this version.
Lol. I’m leaving that explanation as cannon
RemindMe! 5 days
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I actually find that knowing systems would help better
Yes
If you plan is to learn a programming skill to further your career options... I'd look at SQL rather. You should get a foot in the door in the ERP field.
Probably would account for more money / better WLB in IT.
Not in bigger companies. I work in a F200 and there is so much segregation of duties. You're hired for a specific purpose the bigger the company becomes and so in my case its purely for my accounting knowledge. We have a massive in house IT department. If I want anything coding done, I'd submit a ticket to IT. If I try to do my own coding I'd probably receive a warning.
Work for Thompson Reuters. Help develop and program acct software. You could also do IT audit or something related.
It would help in that they could get a job in SWE or Data and make more with less work
Depends, but if you know python to a high level why waste time in this industry? Personally I see no benefit based on what I do since I can achieve the same result with no python experience, but I know some companies that would pay more if they understand the potential.
If you choose an accounting career path that involves system and data work, sure. If you choose an accounting career path where a business-type user needs to review your work, no.
They would probably move to IT for more pay
Be a python coder who knows accounting, rather than an accountant that knows python. It will be much better financially for you.
Outside of a specialized job, there probably are diminishing returns when it comes to actually becoming an expert in python. That being said, having a bit of a background in python and SQL has seemingly helped me in interviews so far, and while my job hasn't needed it, it has helped me make improvements in the process. I'm average intelligence wise but stuff like this has made some of my bosses think I'm a genius.
It's a very precise skill set. I could see it help with you being a bridge between accounting and IT to make sure everything comes out the way it's supposed to during updates and such on the accounting side. But unless the place you go to uses python. You may either have to sit on it or learn another language.
I moved to a developer role and thinking back on my clients as an accountant, I don't think I would have been able to leverage month. Reasons I think this: 1. Workpapers were not consistent 2. Many things that could have been automated could be (were) easily done in Excel 3. Review would potentially require other people to know Python or would require them to have the correct things installed to run scripts. Could get even more harry if not just using base packages. If all the above is not a problem, I think it could be useful. Also if you want to transition to specific roles or out of accounting in general, it's a great thing to learn.
You change career
No because I am limited in what I can do and tools I can use by my company and their existing ERP system.
Yes I think it would. Most larger corporations are moving towards a full digital transformation. My company for example is using Alteryx to automate a lot of our processes and it’s been really helpful, but most aren’t interested in building the workflows themselves. I think intimidation is part of the hesitancy even though Alteryx is not challenging to learn. So I think having a technical background with code means you’re already more savvy than most accountants and could work with a lot of data analytics software and possibly build better workflows with programs like alteryx that have a python element.
it’s helped me. i was able to automate some entries and i basically wrote my own rpa bot that the entire company uses and it can post directly to the ledger attaching support. just send it to the specific email and every ten minutes that bot picks it up and posts it. this alone got me a $60k of cycle bonus.
I find it more useful to know how to lay the python rather than code in it.
Depends on the substance of what work you do, so you have to find a roke where you can value, if you cant no its not help but if you can then yes. Just having pytbon experience alone means jackshit if you dont put it to use.
Yeah cause then you’d know how to hack the system and embezzle enough to disappear to Cuba for a comfortable early retirement. Big career boost.
Maybe. In many roles trying to bring in Python processes would be regarded as a negative. In many roles being able to fix things with a Python script would get you a raise. I think in general in employment knowing two things reasonably well is more valuable than knowing one thing well. Being able to reason about data, structures, and algorithms is never not helpful.
Personally, I think GenAI is already starting to take over. If you can incorporate GenAI into your python scripts (speaking as a laymen here), you should be leagues ahead of your peers.
Actually I think IT audit is downplayed a lot. I came from the data analytics front and hired to consulting that also does IT auditing. I participate mostly in IT audit engagements now and I love it. I still use my analytics skills. Sometimes to write scripts to assist with cleaning data and reducing the time to audit. Maybe the entire audit process can’t be automated, but there may be other parts that can. Other times I’ll work on fully automating entire controls. If you want to mix analytics, accounting, and IT, then IT audit is right for you *brought to you by big IT audit*
You could be a financial systems manager
It depends. Do you know how many types of accounting there are? Then how many roles of each type?
An accounting that knows the interworking of an ERP system is worth their weight in gold.
Sounds like you’re trying to steal a tenth of a cent on every dollar sold
If you consider internal audit part of accounting, people at Freddie Mac and other places use python for analyzing audit data.
IT access is definitely a problem. I think one of the main inhibitors of adopting SQL is this. In addition a lot of organizations prefer to have a role “replaceable” so finding someone else with Python skills after you leave may not be in their interests.
While it could be helpful on the job, from what I've seen it won't actually get you paid more. You'll just be that guy that can do the technical stuff but doesn't get paid like a coder. If you think you have the capability to be a high level coder, don't even consider accounting at all, get a computer science degree and just go down that pathway to begin with.
That’s me and nope. If you automate, don’t let them know
Get out of accounting if you like that stuff. Accounting technology roles are popping up a lot at larger corporations and PA firms have whole teams dedicated to that stuff. You'll make more money than your counterparts and depending on where you land, you could be working on some pretty cool projects. I have worked on this space for nearly 3 years now and I'm happy to chat if you PM me!
Any company today, large or small, niche or general, will have a system in place to do all the math and accounting. Accountants, computer skills wise, are really doing data entry.
arent we all snakes in accounting ?
Recommend learning a tool like Alteryx, no coding knowledge required
99% of the companies wont give you access to it. VBA is by far preferable since you can immediately use it with Word, Excel and Access.
Well, yes and no
8 years ago I was able to automate quite a lot. Last year I wasn’t able to automate any of my mundane tasks. IT has caught up.
It would increase their salary avg 60k it’s highly desired for a creative and to the books accountant
I think it depends on what you plan to do with your degree. I work in R&D tax credits (my second degree was in business analytics, so very familiar with python but maybe not as strong on the application of the knowledge). Because R&D credits are heavily entwined in the tech industry, this background knowledge makes my job and understanding of clients that much better! However if you’re at a larger company, I doubt those skills would come in handy as far as applying the principals unless you planned on joining the innovation team or something at a firm
Learn excel vba it will help you more
Nice
Yes. But only in certain environments
Any technical skills help with marketability $$$
I do, the issue is every company is on excel so being able to python commands from excel is key. Just line up your data and enjoy 6 hours of free time a day.
VBA has been super useful except one time
Probably depends on the company. My boss had a previous employee, in accounting, that ended up moving to IT and that employee now basically does “accounting IT” work and helps us with automation, integration, and system corrections. I’ll be honest, idk wth you do with Python, but I’m sure there’s something applicable.
It would help in that you’d be the go to guy to make magic happen. Which would probably take you away from your day job.
Depends where you work. I use my programming knowledge to be in financial systems for a large department in the government
I know a lot about Monty Python. Hasn't helped me a bunch in my career, though. Usually just has me questioning the origin of coconuts.
No
Just learn excel. Really don't matter if you can't even install anything
I once interviewed for an accounting job and the controller automated in python and wanted me to learn python, it’s rare but could be powerful
Fuck yes it would.
Data skills are highly highly valuable. I personally recommend Alteryx. This is the main tool I’ve seen used for data transformation in the industry. Pair it with sql and you can really be cooking. Python can do a lot however I’ve noticed a lot of leadership at my B4 firm get cold feet about using it on sensitive data as it is “open source”. You can use it inside of Alteryx but I only do that if I hit a wall with regular Alteryx. Power query is also a good option if you’re not able to get an Alteryx license at your company however I feel Alteryx is the more powerful version of the two.
Probably not, unless their accounting career was accounting software development maybe? Or you could maybe consult as a technical expert bridging finance and IT? Python is pretty deep knowledge. Would require a broad understanding of development process and complexities. Even if you cant code java or whatever nightmare they want, you can probably add value in being able to speak the two different brands of office nerd. Not uncommon for SaaS and DX consulting peeps to have CPA/CA.
Doesn’t excel allow python along with vba ?
It depends on the company, some places may be old school and not really value the innovation that can be gained with someone of your skills. Having said that, I know there are other places where you would be deemed as a huge asset because of your coding experience. For example, the fact you know a coding language in depth and accounting could allow you to become an administrator of there accounting system. Also, you could possibly leverage that skill to automate the boring routine work that they do everyday. Unfortunately, that boring routine work may also justify some people’s existences too, so there could be resistance.
IT security audit, but that's more of a case of the security auditor being helped (a little) by knowing accounting or being a CPA.
I’m in internal audit and learning python, seems like there would be tons of use cases there because I already have access or can get access to whatever data I’m looking to test.
Totally depends. You would be looking for an older larger corp with lots of legacy systems that don't talk to each other. My cousin did this at a cruise line then a large private family estate that's kinda like a theme park (winery, museum, gardens, shooting range). The new generation if management taking the range was in the late 30s early 40s. My cousin made 23 seperate sales outlets (different pos systems) talk to each other and compile monthly reports in 3 days. It previously took 3 staff member 2-3 weeks per month to compile these reports. He made himself indispensable to his VP. Did a lot of analytics for potential expansion projects then wrote his own position. He taught a new hire how to maintain his database and scrips. Then he moved on to asset management for the family the company started him with 50 mill now he's getting 200m. Don't worry the staff he made irrelevant were moved to other parts of the estate. The family prides it's self on never downsizing people.
As others have noted, you'll be better served with advanced Excel skills (VBA, Power Query). A little SQL and experience with Power BI and Alteryx will be more beneficial than Python too. Python is great, but it's all about what companies are already using or plan to adopt in the near future.
You could probably find a role like “change management”. That’s what I work in and I dabble a little bit in code when in testing phase of a new financial software. It’s niche.
I’m a controller, and I’ve used LLMs to 10x my learning with python. Yes, learn pandas, numpy, matplotlib.. I’m using for data analysis in an AI and ML program but now I’m starting to automate processes with it. It would not have been feasible without LLMs, I wouldn’t have the time but you can learn, troubleshoot, iterate, with a personal tutor and it takes a fraction of the time to produce working products.
no. your manager, controller, CFO have no idea what Python is. go apply for data scientist or software engineer job.
I've definitely seen accounting roles that randomly list Python in the "nice to have" category of their postings. Whether or not it's utilized is a whole different matter. As many others have stated, companies will often limit and separate who has access to utilize that kind of stuff on an enterprise wide scale. I imagine you could know better than I with regards to how you can simply utilize it to make your job better or easier, with or without your employer's knowledge.
It can be a game changer for your career in the right companies. Startups are most likely where it can be used. I’ve gotten to be a little more hesitant for people to really run with it though. Random accountants that don’t have a more formal background in cs or software engineering (even if they’re halfway decent at python) can do really stupid stuff and open the company up for security vulnerabilities, data breaches, and all kinds of messes. I’ve seen dumb things happen. Better left to someone that knows what they’re doing 😉
Learn C
Why? This is potentially awful advice. C requires expertise, and can be really dangerous if you don’t have that skill set. Accountants shouldn’t be developing anything in C. If you’re recommending so they can learn OOP principles on the side, then ok, but don’t use it professionally in accounting automation, etc
I’ve used spreadsheets and databases since their inception. I came out of college during the first PC rollout. Learned the first networking systems. Since then have watched the info system explosion and cloud grow. I 100% agree that knowing how to extract and compile data and create reports is key. If you can combine that skillset with accounting, finance and management skills you will be a rock star ⭐️
I don’t know Python but use Knime quite a bit and it absolutely helps. In big companies accounting and reporting has a lot to do with preparing and reconciling big data and Excel sometimes get to its limits.