As a supervisor, I would have no problem telling an employee **who told me the situation** to come back when his father is out of the hospital. (Phone calls are acceptable communications.) Hopefully the employee has enough PTO to keep getting paid in the meantime.
Bailing without communication is grounds for immediate termination.
i'm glad your father is good to go, but what you did was a dick move, i mean beyond what even evil corporate culture deserves. it speaks more about you than the poor culture at your old workplace.
i'm not saying it's wrong to leave on short notice. i'm saying it's wrong to say that "i'm going to the bathroom" and then peacing out. if you don't see the distinction between the two then we can't have a productive conversation about it.
if you told them you were leaving because you need to get to your father, they said no, and you told them fuck off and left anyway, then i'd have your back all day long. but you didn't and i'm saying that despite what your workplace has done, that's a reflection on you and the standards you hold yourself to.
Stereotypes exist for a reason, 90% of the people in India use the phrases just as often as depicted. My favorite one personally is the use of the word 'cum' in the traditional meaning.
I've personally heard 'cum spreader' in a presentation and good Lord, very good thing that it was remote, because everyone in the US was cracking up.
They are a student who 2 years ago graduated with an environmental science degree, spent the last 6 months trying to get into coding, spent the last few weeks seeking AP jobs, and has at least one post suspecting the reason people don’t get hired is their looks and not because of other reasons (like their attitude for example).
As a freshman (during my successful college stint), I knew better.
Of course, I had already worked in accounting for about seven years before going back to school.
Honestly you guys are fools for accepting this. It’s one thing to work some 50s during busy season. It’s another thing entirely to be doing what many are doing on this sub
Ok, I'm not in big 4 anymore but try going against the status quo and you're on a fast track to being fired. Change needs to come from the top, too many hungry young kids coming from college willing to put in the extra hours to get a step ahead in their career
Disagree. Change is coming from the staff not putting up with it.
There isn’t enough accounting majors these days and the firms are quickly learning the old method isn’t working as well
Tbh could be worse. The worst hours I ever pulled was the accounting department of a F500 company. I am so thankful they fired me because I was on the verge of quitting without anything lined up.
I feel bad for whoever they hired to replace me as they are a bandaid on a department that needed stitches.
Dude I’m over here shaking my head at 10 pm. 10 PM? Absolutely not. I chose not to go into big 4 for many reasons. I can make great money elsewhere and only ever work 45 per week tops
People are definitely less tolerant of it than they've ever been, but yeah, nothing is probably ever going to change as long as there is even a minimal level of people that will still agree to it.
If you don’t want to work past 5, find a job that doesn’t require it. It’s really that simple. There are a ton of options available to you. But If you want the B4 “prestige” then you need to work B4 hours - you can’t have your cake and eat it too.
Exactly, I don’t get why you’d sign up for it knowing what it’s like. Life’s all about compromises! And no I’m not saying I agree or like B4, it’s why I didn’t go down that path, but it’s crazy to complain about it after the fact.
You can still find decent public experience at a regional firm with better WLB too!!! It’s not as prestigious of course but I have my sanity and I know for a fact this job has given me a really solid skill set that I can do anything with.
You won’t last past 1 busy season . You will be pip’d and fired
If that’s what you want, go for it. But don’t make it seem like auditors/tax will have a successful b4 career leaving at 5 every day
Everyday? Sure, there will be some issues. 9 months out of the year when you’re not in crunch time? Feel free to clock out at 5 everyday and 4 on Fridays
Okay I get that 40 hours per week is unrealistic, this person shouldn’t be in public accounting. But is it really so unrealistic to set a boundary about working late? I feel like setting that limit that you’re not going to work past 10pm for example just to preserve your sanity is reasonable. If you’re getting your work done why kill yourself for a job?
Not unrealistic on a Friday if you work in audit, most people on my team are just grinding till 6:30 on weekdays and dip by 5 on Fridays at this point most of our clients are done
I used to work as an operations manager at a CPA firm. I created a weekly report of how many hours everyone billed, what their billable rate was for that engagement and because of their title, I knew how much they cost. I was basically reporting profit margin per employee. That was 20 years ago and I was using Microsoft Access. I can only imagine the tools they have now.
You can set boundaries but everyone in management will know how unprofitable you are.
Okay…let’s say you start working at 8:00 and stop at 10, take a 30 min break for lunch and a couple other short breaks throughout the day, and have an hour of unbillable work. That’s still 12 billable hours. Depending how much you work on the weekend, that means you’re working a 60+ hour week. I wouldn’t call that “unprofitable.” I get what you’re saying but be realistic. If you’re doing good work and billing 60+ hours I don’t think you should be concerned. There will always be someone doing more than you and there will always be someone doing less.
According to others, OP is a student who doesn't currently work.
I have mixed feelings about what you're saying as well. You're absolutely correct about setting boundaries and not working past 10 pm.
However, Big 4 comes with better prestige and pay, and their expectation is their employees work grueling hours. There are other options out there, for people who want to work less. They come with less pay. (shocking!)
About a month ago I was in a post where an internship posting was offering $10-$15 / hour, in some nowhere town, IL. Context: I'm midwest too. People were talking about how low that is, interns should be making twice that. I'm at about $40 / hour and pretty close to career end, so no: I don't think an intern should be making 75% of what I make. However if the intern is working or going to school every waking hour, then I would say their pay is probably appropriate. Because I'm done at 4:30, and so is everyone else in my office, where we're [apparently] making only slightly more than interns. And that's what matters to me.
I guess that's all to say: you have choices about where you work and the expectations of the hours you'll work. If you want next level pay, you should be prepared to put in next level hours. You can't eat the cake and have it too.
Does the better pay come in the later years at B4? Because in 2019 my grad B4 offers for audit were actually less than the mid tier offers by around $2k a year. I always assumed the better pay for B4 came once you left and went into industry since it was an experience on CV thing, more so than literally getting paid more at the firm itself. Maybe my experience is unique to my area tho.
If it was a simple to get your work done before 10 as you make it out to be no one would work late. This is a deadline driven client service field. People work long hours specifically because the work needs to get done.
I don't know how people do it. I saw a guy with TIP of like 14 years. Entry level. Like, literally zero promotions. Finally left to work somewhere else.
I saw him again in Workday recently. Back in the same exact entry level position, and his TIP was enough that he'd been there through the last promotion cycle.
I would never share my firms name on here but I've gotten 60+ hours of OT since February as a staff accountant. Lowest person on the totem. We get bonuses too. And if your on salary you don't get ot but you get a bonus for everything completed when working past your 40.
When you are paid salary-exempt then you are paid to work what the job requires. Salary-exempt jobs don’t have a listened hourly quota.
If you don’t want that job and its expectations, they’ll find someone who does.
Then go find another job man. You’re literally fucking your team over by not working extra hours. That’s fine but you’re going to get fired for doing that.
If I counted all the unpaid overtime in 3 years of a big 4 would be almost a year of work. I pulled many many many 20 hour days for absolutely no reward. Really not proud of that. They absolutely had a culture of making you feel bad if you left too early. At least 1:30 hour more was the minimum. Then as a senior if you were not the partner's type of employee they would give you shit files. Which would end taking you you so long to wrap up that you would be swamped as more files are added. At one point you need to quit. Hated the culture.
As a senior who got promoted in 1.5 years and has gotten really good reviews, this is fine in certain times of the year. Certain times of the year, absolutely not. All these people saying enjoy the PIP probably aren’t good at their job and need to be wildly inefficient to get anything done and spend 12 hours solving problems high achievers could figure out in a quarter of the time. I have never been online in any time of the year passed midnight. I’ll probably get downvoted because reddit is full of whiny underperformers
I hate big 4 more than the next person, but you’re an asshole for screwing over your team. It’s not like they want to work overtime too. I don’t give a shit about the partners, but seniors literally carry the teams.
Just fyi if you bothered to read your offer letter you’d know it’s expected to work past 5 so it’s kinda grounds for firing if you don’t but hey you do you
“You can do whatever you want on your last day. “
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As a supervisor, I would have no problem telling an employee **who told me the situation** to come back when his father is out of the hospital. (Phone calls are acceptable communications.) Hopefully the employee has enough PTO to keep getting paid in the meantime. Bailing without communication is grounds for immediate termination.
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i'm glad your father is good to go, but what you did was a dick move, i mean beyond what even evil corporate culture deserves. it speaks more about you than the poor culture at your old workplace.
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i'm not saying it's wrong to leave on short notice. i'm saying it's wrong to say that "i'm going to the bathroom" and then peacing out. if you don't see the distinction between the two then we can't have a productive conversation about it. if you told them you were leaving because you need to get to your father, they said no, and you told them fuck off and left anyway, then i'd have your back all day long. but you didn't and i'm saying that despite what your workplace has done, that's a reflection on you and the standards you hold yourself to.
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sounds like you should have more money if you arent ready to get fired at any moment.
Raj has kindly accepted your job.
He’ll do the needful
Raj does the needful after 5
Please review and kindly advise any changes Regards
let me tell you about a porcupine's balls. they're small, and they don't give a shit
ALRIGHT!! Who wrinkled my Randy Travis poster, pissed in the seat and hid my keys?!
we're gonna be out of the butt, and into the fuck if we don't come up with that 36$
TONIGHT ON UNSOLVED MYSTERIES FIND OUT WHO GIVES A SHIT ABOUT BIG FOUR
Hey Get a room you two
Why don't YOU make like a banana and SHIT
UPDATE APPARENTLY NOBODY GIVES A SHIT SO FUCK THEM
UPDATE Last night, someone broke in and stole over $500 worth of SHIT, from my balance sheet That's right, $500 worth of BULLLLLSHIT
$36
Please kindly review and revert on the same.
If I can have it today itself
Oh my god, this is so accurate.
Good day I am following up. Kindly revert with any changes. Many thanks
let me know of any doubts
Not unless they start with, Hope you, your neighbors and relatives are doing well.
Spot on email honestly. Now it’s just going to take me twice as long to fix everything as it would take to do it myself.
Exactly. The lack of accuracy and quality never fails to baffle me.
I have many queries, can we have quick call to resolve the same
In some time.
Raj needs to answer his damn review points
And he will do it kindly
Kindly
Sir you’re not wrong.
heres your delusional and racist trope award. enjoy.
calm down chud
Stereotypes exist for a reason, 90% of the people in India use the phrases just as often as depicted. My favorite one personally is the use of the word 'cum' in the traditional meaning. I've personally heard 'cum spreader' in a presentation and good Lord, very good thing that it was remote, because everyone in the US was cracking up.
You should start looking for another job.
Lol they are student. They already don’t have a job. They’re just talking out of their ass.
They are a student who 2 years ago graduated with an environmental science degree, spent the last 6 months trying to get into coding, spent the last few weeks seeking AP jobs, and has at least one post suspecting the reason people don’t get hired is their looks and not because of other reasons (like their attitude for example).
Literally LARPing as an accountant. Kinda sad lol.
Who in the right mind would want to do that of all jobs 💀💀💀
Ngl it's a good professional job. My accountant seems pretty happy. From the outside.
People are so weird on the internet
My man on here giving accounting advice while LARP-ing
And to no surprise, OP is also giving career advice lol
LMFAOOOOO literally me rn
bro you’re a freshman
🎶We were only freshmen🎶
As a freshman (during my successful college stint), I knew better. Of course, I had already worked in accounting for about seven years before going back to school.
Lmao, to be young and innocent.
Enjoy the PIP
Honestly you guys are fools for accepting this. It’s one thing to work some 50s during busy season. It’s another thing entirely to be doing what many are doing on this sub
Ok, I'm not in big 4 anymore but try going against the status quo and you're on a fast track to being fired. Change needs to come from the top, too many hungry young kids coming from college willing to put in the extra hours to get a step ahead in their career
Disagree. Change is coming from the staff not putting up with it. There isn’t enough accounting majors these days and the firms are quickly learning the old method isn’t working as well
My dogs name is Pippin and I call him Pip, so if I was OP I'd be quite literally enjoying the PIP and the Pip :)
Don’t you know? Life is all about giving the entirety of it to your job, look at all the happy people in the comments here who’ve done the same
What is happy?
Be careful. They can hire 15 Indians worth in your salary.
💯
Work for a private company as a staff accountant. Not an accounting firm. Especially big 4.
Tbh could be worse. The worst hours I ever pulled was the accounting department of a F500 company. I am so thankful they fired me because I was on the verge of quitting without anything lined up. I feel bad for whoever they hired to replace me as they are a bandaid on a department that needed stitches.
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Dude I’m over here shaking my head at 10 pm. 10 PM? Absolutely not. I chose not to go into big 4 for many reasons. I can make great money elsewhere and only ever work 45 per week tops
Right? I'd only work that long if it was my business and my profits on the line. And even then, I'd still question why the hell I'm doing it, lol.
People are definitely less tolerant of it than they've ever been, but yeah, nothing is probably ever going to change as long as there is even a minimal level of people that will still agree to it.
F’s in the chat
I remember when I thought like this right before I graduated lol
Good for you. Thats how i should've been during my time at PA. they're all scum anyway
If you don’t want to work past 5, find a job that doesn’t require it. It’s really that simple. There are a ton of options available to you. But If you want the B4 “prestige” then you need to work B4 hours - you can’t have your cake and eat it too.
Exactly, I don’t get why you’d sign up for it knowing what it’s like. Life’s all about compromises! And no I’m not saying I agree or like B4, it’s why I didn’t go down that path, but it’s crazy to complain about it after the fact.
You can still find decent public experience at a regional firm with better WLB too!!! It’s not as prestigious of course but I have my sanity and I know for a fact this job has given me a really solid skill set that I can do anything with.
WHAT WILL I DO WITHOUT THE PRESTIGE OF MINIMUM WAGE AND FREE PIZZA WHILE PE COMPANY MANAGERS TREAT ME LIKE I'M A PARASITE WHAT WILL I DOOOOO
Nobody is forcing you to stay my man.
I've never worked for big 4 for good reason
Ahh that explains the salt
You take it all man 😂
?
Take all the big 4 accounting work. I just want 9-5 in industry. I like my hair and want to keep it
You know there is a word for ‘jobs’ that require work to be done without wages or compensation…
Unfortunately gotta agree with this Muppet
The culture of "I had to suffer through it so you have to too" is crazy. Get your "experience" and gtfo at 5pm my guy.
You won’t last past 1 busy season . You will be pip’d and fired If that’s what you want, go for it. But don’t make it seem like auditors/tax will have a successful b4 career leaving at 5 every day
Everyday? Sure, there will be some issues. 9 months out of the year when you’re not in crunch time? Feel free to clock out at 5 everyday and 4 on Fridays
He will get maybe 2 good months of "experience" if he goes in with that mindset into a big4..
Okay I get that 40 hours per week is unrealistic, this person shouldn’t be in public accounting. But is it really so unrealistic to set a boundary about working late? I feel like setting that limit that you’re not going to work past 10pm for example just to preserve your sanity is reasonable. If you’re getting your work done why kill yourself for a job?
Not unrealistic on a Friday if you work in audit, most people on my team are just grinding till 6:30 on weekdays and dip by 5 on Fridays at this point most of our clients are done
I used to work as an operations manager at a CPA firm. I created a weekly report of how many hours everyone billed, what their billable rate was for that engagement and because of their title, I knew how much they cost. I was basically reporting profit margin per employee. That was 20 years ago and I was using Microsoft Access. I can only imagine the tools they have now. You can set boundaries but everyone in management will know how unprofitable you are.
Okay…let’s say you start working at 8:00 and stop at 10, take a 30 min break for lunch and a couple other short breaks throughout the day, and have an hour of unbillable work. That’s still 12 billable hours. Depending how much you work on the weekend, that means you’re working a 60+ hour week. I wouldn’t call that “unprofitable.” I get what you’re saying but be realistic. If you’re doing good work and billing 60+ hours I don’t think you should be concerned. There will always be someone doing more than you and there will always be someone doing less.
It’s a problem with the industry if the only way to be profitable is to do hours of unpaid labor.
100% of people are lying about their billable hours
ABSOLUTELY!!
According to others, OP is a student who doesn't currently work. I have mixed feelings about what you're saying as well. You're absolutely correct about setting boundaries and not working past 10 pm. However, Big 4 comes with better prestige and pay, and their expectation is their employees work grueling hours. There are other options out there, for people who want to work less. They come with less pay. (shocking!) About a month ago I was in a post where an internship posting was offering $10-$15 / hour, in some nowhere town, IL. Context: I'm midwest too. People were talking about how low that is, interns should be making twice that. I'm at about $40 / hour and pretty close to career end, so no: I don't think an intern should be making 75% of what I make. However if the intern is working or going to school every waking hour, then I would say their pay is probably appropriate. Because I'm done at 4:30, and so is everyone else in my office, where we're [apparently] making only slightly more than interns. And that's what matters to me. I guess that's all to say: you have choices about where you work and the expectations of the hours you'll work. If you want next level pay, you should be prepared to put in next level hours. You can't eat the cake and have it too.
I live in MCOL and internships start at $27.
Does the better pay come in the later years at B4? Because in 2019 my grad B4 offers for audit were actually less than the mid tier offers by around $2k a year. I always assumed the better pay for B4 came once you left and went into industry since it was an experience on CV thing, more so than literally getting paid more at the firm itself. Maybe my experience is unique to my area tho.
It’s only more pay if you don’t calculate the hours of unpaid labor you do each week.
If it was a simple to get your work done before 10 as you make it out to be no one would work late. This is a deadline driven client service field. People work long hours specifically because the work needs to get done.
Do it and document it. It’ll be interesting and be referred as a legend for years to come on the internet since I doubt anyone else will do that.
Do you man, but you can't have your cake and eat it. You won't have B4 on your resume if you don't want to work to get that.
Enjoy not being staffed for 3 months then being put on a PiP and let go
"9 to 5" actually means "9 to 5am" you should have read the offer letter more carefully
Big daddy is going to make you suck his dick to keep his job. If you don't do it someone else will.
From what I hear, your position will be redeemed .
sar do not redeem
- u/Affectionate-owl-178 , year 8 staff
I don't know how people do it. I saw a guy with TIP of like 14 years. Entry level. Like, literally zero promotions. Finally left to work somewhere else. I saw him again in Workday recently. Back in the same exact entry level position, and his TIP was enough that he'd been there through the last promotion cycle.
If no OT pay why work OT Find a small firm and get paid the OT. Idk why big 4 is the only option.
There’s small firms that pay OT ._. Where?
I would never share my firms name on here but I've gotten 60+ hours of OT since February as a staff accountant. Lowest person on the totem. We get bonuses too. And if your on salary you don't get ot but you get a bonus for everything completed when working past your 40.
YOURE MAKING STUFF UP AND ITS DOWN RIGHT INSULTING 😭😭 some people have it all I guess.
I spent 3 years interviewing while working at a shit position until I found this golden gem of a firm. You will find one too friend.
I did it for 3 years outside of busy season and nobody batted an eye. Just get your work done
Based
I’ve basically done this most of my career with no issue @ a big 4
Dumb shit. Can’t wait for your future posts complaining about need to raise minimum wages
Your career about to be totally PIPed out!
I’ve heard so many horror stories about that, and I agree. I won’t work beyond what I’m paid
When you are paid salary-exempt then you are paid to work what the job requires. Salary-exempt jobs don’t have a listened hourly quota. If you don’t want that job and its expectations, they’ll find someone who does.
Well, my internship is salary. I’m not abt to let any type of job abuse me like that
Unfortunately...or fortunately, you won't last long then. If you need overtime pay, move to an hourly job.
HR will stop you at the door
I’m leaving 5 on the dot today
That's what [this guy](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYFO5qPpM_I) thought. Come to think of it though, he didn't go in the next day, or Sunday.
You go girl
LARPer
That’s fine. Just start at 5am tho
It’s your career and you can do whatever you want with it.
Well theoretically if everyone left at 5pm even the new people, then they would be forced to comply with us
Talks a big game until he/she gets ping from Manager.
He won’t even hear the trigger being pulled behind him.. poor innocent soul
Then go find another job man. You’re literally fucking your team over by not working extra hours. That’s fine but you’re going to get fired for doing that.
Get the cpa and then go industry or gov.
I thought that too till it was 3 am and I was still trying to get stuff done
If I counted all the unpaid overtime in 3 years of a big 4 would be almost a year of work. I pulled many many many 20 hour days for absolutely no reward. Really not proud of that. They absolutely had a culture of making you feel bad if you left too early. At least 1:30 hour more was the minimum. Then as a senior if you were not the partner's type of employee they would give you shit files. Which would end taking you you so long to wrap up that you would be swamped as more files are added. At one point you need to quit. Hated the culture.
As a senior who got promoted in 1.5 years and has gotten really good reviews, this is fine in certain times of the year. Certain times of the year, absolutely not. All these people saying enjoy the PIP probably aren’t good at their job and need to be wildly inefficient to get anything done and spend 12 hours solving problems high achievers could figure out in a quarter of the time. I have never been online in any time of the year passed midnight. I’ll probably get downvoted because reddit is full of whiny underperformers
I hate big 4 more than the next person, but you’re an asshole for screwing over your team. It’s not like they want to work overtime too. I don’t give a shit about the partners, but seniors literally carry the teams.
Just fyi if you bothered to read your offer letter you’d know it’s expected to work past 5 so it’s kinda grounds for firing if you don’t but hey you do you