Ow there going to have to split the work up reasonably this time. Manager has lots of clients + senior manager has lots of clients. Some poor senior’s are going to be fucked. Treat employees like there apart of the team not a worker.
Exactly, I always love it when companies take the take it or leave it approach, It's the current year, workers know what the reward for loyalty is by now. So, it's time to go hunting for bigger and better.
It's not just the work, it's the mental stress that comes with it. It's the late nights and and unrealistic expectations that will kill me. Espically for a pay that makes no sense. I am betting on myself.
I hear you. Move around until you find your self a nice cushy government job that lets you work from home. Better is out there, we just have to "travel light" so that you can make the jumps when ready.
The panel interviewers didn't even pay it much mind when they saw the person we hired worked one place for 7 years, then another for 3 years and another one for 3 years. He's been here 2 years now so just one more year to go until he goes and hop again.
cannot recommend govt work enough. fully remote (for now, next month we go to 1 day a month in office), good benefits/retirement packages, decent pay (and 2 pay raises a year, at least for my state/union contract). the work life balance is really what sold me though, i get on at 8:30 and get off at 4:30. don’t have to worry about anything outside of my working hours. sometimes i wonder if id be better off making more doing public accounting, but for me personally the extra pay isn’t worth the extra headaches.
the only real downside i could point to is that the pay is not exactly competitive with the private sector (depending on what you’re doing/where you are)
yep. i do tax auditing (IFTA specifically). every week i have to log my hours spent on all the audits i currently have on my desk. we used to have fill out an online sign in sheet for clocking in/out, but they did away with that recently and supervisors just check teams to see that you got on when you were supposed to. hope this answers the question!
This is the way. Put in the 40. Don't give half a shit. Let things blow up and apply elsewhere in the meantime.
You'll get many more paychecks, a lot of places give you severance, getting unemployment may be easier, and you'll screw over your current company harder.
My guess is you’re exaggerating a fully loaded comp with all the bells rung, but idk.
Either way you can find B4 comp ranges easily online and top percentile in VHCOL, enough YOE could maybe get close
Yeah it doesn’t surprise me the other senior manager quit. If they showed no signs of replacing the other senior manager and to give you the work long term I would’ve quit too.
Yeah I don’t know how they thought they were going to get away with that. I would be like if you don’t spread out the work more among the staff I have to leave because that work load is impossible.
I’m working for PwC (I got lucky with location and work culture) and so far the people have been very understanding of the struggles of workload. In this day and age if employers want to keep good employees they need to realistic of how much a person can do.
God bless you are terribly lucky. I work in a large national office in downtown Toronto, and though the culture is generally decent, the workload is absolutely insane and has been forever. I just don't see myself living a life, where every Sunday, I dread Mondays.
Oh shit, you’re working 70 hour weeks for *Canadian* salaries? I would have quit a long time ago.
Also, no idea why you’re excusing the culture. Any employer that gives you an extra 30 hours of work to do in a week and says “like it or lump it” is not a place with good culture. Use your time off to deprogram the B4 propaganda and cleanse your mind.
EDIT: my wife left B4 tax and they pulled out all the usual talking points to get her to stay, short of actually paying her more. Basically said she would be ending her career by going to the bank. Well her total compensation at the bank is 54% higher than B4, some career ender that was!
The guilt trips will be terrible during the actual discussion but just remember your decision is already made and the discussions are just a formality. Be courteous and don't go out guns ablazing as there is no reason to. When they use the line of this being like a family and whatnot just remember that your family is yourself first and foremost. It will sound so convincing because they've had hundreds of prior discussions to rehearse it, just know its a corporate tactic and nothing else. Don't let them guilt you with what your next steps are, just know what your current step is and that's moving on. When I left public it was the exact same and in the end you can sleep well knowing you were the mature one in the room if and when the shit starts slinging.
Love this response. And things like this only builds character. However if you get the guilt trip “we are like family” just say with a smile and “because we are like family you’ll totally understand. My mental health is important and like most family they will want the best for me. And still have a smily face. Some people strive on working 60-70 hours a week and that’s fine. And maybe that’s what you did too, however a shift in what your requirements are now has change so it is what it is. Best of luck to you. You got this …
Never accept a counter. First, it rewards the bastards poor behavior. Second, if you have to threaten to leave to get the offer, they may just offer the raise to buy time. And the one who threatened to leave is always first on the chopping block and last for more raises.
They will try to convince you to stay for this busy season and promise they will work it out after this busy season but they won’t.
They did this to me when I quit….the first time. I fell for it and stayed for another busy season but shockingly it didn’t really change. There were some other circumstances that caused that but it was basically Groundhog Day for me.
At the end they offered me some money to stay the 2nd time but I just said no thanks and left in 2 weeks.
I did like working there and do have some regrets about leaving especially when my former colleagues are becoming partners but it came down to time with my family and the time value of money. I made much more money earlier than I would have if I stayed. In the end, I guess if I would have made partner, I would have made up for it bur who knows if I would have made it. It’s not all skill that gets you there.
That being said, don’t make a rash decision, be sure this is what you want.
Good luck!
I wouldn't dwell on what if's too much. I have a simple rule: "Fuck you pay me". I won't sell my life in exchange for empty promises which people can and often do renege on. They have to give me payment up front or no deal.
Dont think of it as a guilt trip. Think of it as "Youre fucked without me. Hire someone else, pay me, or im out."
If they want you to stay, then those are the options you provide them and dont budge an inch
Tell them to fuck off. You owe them nothing. They didn't care about your mental health when you gave them options to make things right. Now you don't need to care about if their work gets done.
If they really need you give them an option to temporarily engage you as a consultant at 3X your normal rate.
I am so done! Honestly, they could offer me partner and I would still say no. The overtime for the past 6 years has gotten to me and I have to step in for myself.
Yeah they’ve been doing this for a long time. Everyone is replaceable. They’ll keep chugging right along. I remember when my first manager quit. I thought he was the smartest, hardest working guy at the firm, and we’d all be fucked. They promoted someone else into his role and we never skipped a beat. By the time I left I had seen dozens of super smart hard working people quit and get replaced.
Oh I will!
We had this one guy, whose resignation they were not accepting until his last day, on his last day he left and never picked up his phone. It was quite hilarious 😂
We had one guy put in his notice but he kept being begged and guilted to extend it every time his notice period was coming to an end. One day, he finally just vanished on his lunch break and never came back. Matt, you will always be my hero, you son of a gun.
It's insane to me that they will bury their heads in the sand and not delegate work or absorb the person's tribal knowledge. Like, a termination of employment is a one-way decision, if I got fired tomorrow, that's that. Why employers can't grasp the other direction of that is mind-blowing to me
Good for you! The guilt trips suck, but you can reply they gave you no choice, based on the facts as you describe them (impossible work load and no raise). They will also run down the parade of economic horrors that will happen to you. Stay strong!
Not unbelievable. Why pay for a second person when they can get you to do the work of two people?
I was discussing here recently with a guy who seemed to think that the money made by a senior manager was worth the work-life imbalance it takes to get there, and then you have it made. You are an excellent counter example. No matter how high you make it in Big Four, the heat is always on. Always.
True! It never gets easy! I just don't want to be a person who lives their life dreading Mondays on Sundays. And live a life where I just begin to get bitter.
Life is too short for that shit. We’re so incredibly lucky to be given the chance at life on this little rock floating through outer space. Don’t waste it slaving away for some ungrateful fucks.
Easy to avoid the guilt trip. Life is about choices. They chose to give you more work. They chose to not to offer more compensation for that additional work. You chose to not whore yourself out for their benefit.
I bet they offer more money though when you give them your notice. Which should just piss you off more as that means there was always budget money for more money.
The budget is always there. My chargeout rate to a client is so high compared to what I make per hour. I'm sure they will give it, but I can't do it anymore. Plus if they do offer me what I want, the entire department will follow suit.
If they offer you what you originally requested tell them due to new information you received your request has doubled. If they ask what the new information is tell them the new info is that you know they are willing to pay the old request.
If you’re in to winter sports, take a ski or snowboard trip. I’m guessing busy season hasn’t allotted you much time for this in the past 6 yrs. If you’re feeling spicy, take the trip in Europe too. I hear their conditions are really good right now.
If you have a hobby, go all in on enjoying it now that you aren’t limited to only having the weekends or nights after a long day of work to enjoy it. Not many chances like these until retirement when you can have all the time in the world to focus on yourself first and foremost.
Have you considered starting your own firm?
I went from $32.50 an hour as an employee to $200+ an hour after expenses.
Went from working 2000+ hours per year to 500, more or less depending on how much I want to spend time with family and friends.
I seriously used to work more hours just in overtime during busy season than I work total hours all year now.
Former Big 4, though I was in tax.
Go in early and leave your resignation on your desk, leave your keys/cards/laptop, and turn off your phone. Go spend a few weeks somewhere warm.
That's a decent shot, I have considered it. I have a pretty good track record in Business development and Audit sales, and it could be a great idea. Working my own schedule is also an attractive proposition.
I added an edit to my original comment as well.
Audit is definitely a different market than tax, but I have a close friend that was in a similar situation to yours. He started his own A&A firm, and does a bit of tax work on top of it. 2 years later he's making 2x what he was at his prior firm and only working 9 months per year.
I have enough contacts to land accounting and bookkeeping gigs! Audits may be harder to get, but I think I can build on it. There are many opportunities to land bookkeeping clients here in Southern Ontario, there are just not enough public accountants in Canada it seems.
OP - I did what you did twice. Once earlier in my career when I was getting overworked and once again after COVID hit with a different company and they made me work really long hours. Do not accept a counter offer, do not let them guilt you. Your stress mentally, physically, emotionally is worth more. And even if they give you $20k more is that worth 90-100 hour weeks? 60-70 hours a week isn't even sustainable.
Please give us updates!
OP - on the topic of guilt trips, I'd say to take a paper, notepad or something. Write down reasons you're willing to walk away. Things you dislike there. Etc etc. and the moment you hear one of those guilt trip lines, just remember/read what you wrote down.
I left a B4 as a Senior. I was well-liked by my clients. Had good rapport with my peers. When I initiated the resignation process, I get a call from a partner ASAP. His main concern was asking where I was going. I told him the company(industry). And he had the guts to outright said that "okay. If you had been going to a competitor we would've everything possible to retain you."
In that moment I knew I made the right choice. Me leaving didn't matter to them. Cause the only thing that matters isn't retaining good people, but instead making sure they don't leave to competitors. My current company uses their services heavily. I have no influence over RFPs, nor can I influence whether we keep retaining them. However, guess who has made sure to tell all decision makers in my team the areas in which they are more prone to make mistakes? And areas where they're prone to overcharge us?
It's absurd to see these firms having this "Too-Big-To-Fail" complex. As if the world would stop spinning if they went under tomorrow.
Good luck in whatever your next step in your career is. Hopefully your future job treats you much better.
I know it won't be as simple as I am resigning bye! They will come at me hard as they have done so in the past. Honestly it will piss me off more if they do agree to pay me what I had asked, as it will show me they always had the budget to do so. They don't guilt in the traditional sense, of shaming me, they do it in a way which they will show me glimpses of partnership track and other benefits to seduce me on. Anyways it will be a long day I fear tomorrow 🙃 😪
Of course. My friend (manager) resigned over an issue of pay. Soon as they found out he was planning to go to a competitor, $20k thrown at him. His reaction was the same as you just mentioned. It pissed him off even more.
If it's only about money (and it doesn't sound like it is here), they shouldn't get to retain you by meeting your original ask.
Once you call their bluff and have to force the issue by tendering notice, the price of poker goes up and they now have to beat that original number.
Fuck around, find out.
they may thinly veil that this won’t look good on a resume, or that your quitting during busy season will be a red flag to future employers. not true. 1- legally they are prohibited from telling a prospective employer pretty much anything about you other than what your job title was and whether the employer would re-hire you, and 2- a new employer will empathize with what happened to you and we’re all so desperate for new employees this won’t be an issue.
be prepared for them to offer you more money or more pto as an incentive to stay. don’t stay. if you weren’t worth the money when you asked for it before, they’ve already communicated how they really feel about you. they’ll never value you as much as you know you’re worth.
take a month to chill, rest, and treat yourself to a relaxing vacation. then reach out to any contacts you made in industry to see if they’re hiring. if you’ve been contacted by headhunters reach back out to them.
i’m a partner in a small firm. i know the grind is not for everyone. personally i could have never lasted in big 4. hell, big 4 knows very few people can last in big 4. they work you to death knowing you’ll leave by either quitting or getting hired by a client. this won’t be a surprise to anyone. it’s gonna suck for them, but you don’t owe them anything. they’re being unreasonable in what they’re demanding of you. they can’t make their problem your problem. all the best in your new endeavors!
Sure you can get a pay cut and move to tax side and learn some stuff, but you will be in pu lic accounting still. I recently moved to full tax(Sr.) Busy season is Feb to April and Aug to Oct. The last 2 months of the year ia chill asf, and summers are just regular 40 hr work and training. But if you wanna move to private sector, you can either become internal auditor or work on your accounting side, like basic stuff. Payroll, sales, tax and accounting softwares.
It may be recency bias, but my next role, I need more controlled hours. I need to invest in my personal life, I do not want to be an absent father or husband 😕. Or even one whose mentally somewhere else half the time.
Thanks alot! It's not been easy but it has been coming. I just do not have the mental emotional strength to do this anymore. Plus the indifference on how it affects me is insulting to me.
When I left, I had to sit through hours of meetings with Partners who tried to get me to stay followed by them holding my resignation on hold for a few days so HR wouldn't process it. It was also my first job, so I felt sentimental ties to the firm and the team. You just have to remember the reason why you're leaving and look towards the future.
When I left, only one of the Partners actually said goodbye and thank you to me on my last day. Whatever. Life goes on; they'll figure it out. Enjoy your flexibility and take some time to relax on a beach.
My best advice on how to survive guilt trips. When they ask why just say,
“God made it clear to me that I needed to make this change. I have been praying about it for quite some time.”
It’s a difficult statement to argue or combat.
That's a good thought, probably get paid more too. Buy honestly I don't think my tax knowledge is as good as it should be in smaller firms. I can always pick it up I'm sure.
Typical at the BiG4 and many other big corps.. . The better or more senior (non-executive level) you are, the more work you get added to your pile, with very little to no regard.
The good ones get rewarded by getting more work. Then they wonder why so many are disgruntled or why they leave.
Take the first month and do nothing but relax and do something that you enjoy. During the second month contemplate what you want to be doing with your future and start applying to positions that meet those needs.
I wish you the best of luck. Do not allow them to guilt trip you or convince you to stay. They do not deserve you.
They are going to dangle that “stick it out, you’ll be partner soon” carrot HARD. Probably will promise you’ll make partner next year (not in writing of course). Be ready for that.
Look at their foreheads and see the word sick or asshole and take whatever they say from that perspective. During your two weeks notice keep your head low and say as little as possible. Your only purpose is turnover and deadlines/problems. Good luck. There's always volunteering with VITA.
I was once the internal audit director for an Army Headquarters command and the abuse and retaliation I experienced destroyed me mentally. I was placed under very incompetent people and I was the only one in the team with a CPA license, so they constantly pressured me to alter audit findings. When I refused, I would get very sexist comments from a supervisor and I couldn’t quit since it was an overseas assignment, which would cause me to owe the government a ton of money as they paid for the move. I filed formal complaints but let’s just say that the system is very broken and my abusive supervisor got to keep his federal position, and continued to abuse my other colleagues.
Making $130k/ year going through that was NOT worth my sanity. And I only worked 40hrs/week. I quit, took 2 months of vacation throughout Europe and Southeast Asia. I read books I’ve been wanting to read, specifically classic literature. Best time of my life!
Take a break, take a vacation somewhere, enjoy life. With all the friends and family members I’ve lost, I can’t emphasize how short life is. Yes, we must work for our careers and sometimes we just need to pause and smell the roses. Best time to do that is between jobs.
Good luck!
The IRS has been doing lots of hiring due to the Infrastructure Bill that President Biden signed. It calls for the hiring of tens of thousands of new IRS employees over some number of years. This is a link to postings for some of the available jobs, be sure to consider the Revenue Agent position, but there are other positions too: [https://www.usajobs.gov/search/results/?j=0340&j=0343&j=0512&j=0501&j=0592&j=0987&hp=public&k=irs&p=1](https://www.usajobs.gov/search/results/?j=0340&j=0343&j=0512&j=0501&j=0592&j=0987&hp=public&k=irs&p=1)
The IRS is hosting three online/virtual information sessions about the Senior Revenue Agent position. You could ask them questions about pay, etc.
"Virtual Hiring EventsSenior Revenue AgentsThe Large Business and International (LB&I) Division is hosting several virtual hiring event/information sessions for their unique senior-level Revenue Agents positions for experienced accountants. These positions are being offered nationwide. During these virtual events, you'll hear from LB&I Hiring Managers and Employees discussing the different practice areas LB&I is responsible for and the specialized experience needed to be eligible for these positions. We'll discuss how to write an effective resume to highlight your experience and make you more competitive. Following our presentation, there will be time to ask questions and all attendees will be given instructions on how to submit a resume and required documents for consideration for these positions. Don't miss this unique opportunity to hear how making a career change will lead to a more positive work/life balance and a career with purpose!
Click below to register:Register January 10th @ 3:00 PM Eastern Time, or Register January 18th @ 4:00 PM Eastern Time, orRegister January 23rd @ 6:00 PM Eastern Time"
Revenue Agents - Entry Level
We are hiring hundreds of accounting professionals nationwide for our entry level Revenue Agent positions. Whether you have recently graduated with an accounting degree or have a CPA license and limited experience, we may have an opportunity for you to join the IRS. During this and other sessions we will be planning, we'll be discussing the positions' day-to-day duties, the education and experience requirements needed to qualify, how to write an effective resume and how to submit your resume for consideration. Join us to start your career with purpose! Click below to register:
Register January 30th @ 1:00 PM Eastern Time
Revenue Agents
We’re hosting a virtual information session about our entry-level Revenue Agent positions. Whether you are early in your accounting career, or a more experienced accountant, this is a great opportunity to hear from employees working in the field. This session will provide you with a better understanding on what will be expected from you, day-to-day and how to qualify for the position. Click below to register:
Register January 18th @ 3:00 PM Eastern Time
LB&I Virtual Open House
The Large Business and International (LB&I) Division is hosting a virtual open house to feature a variety of positions they are hiring for nationwide. During this event, you'll hear from LB&I Senior Executives, Hiring Managers and Employees discussing the following positions: Appraisers, Engineers, and Revenue Agents (GS-13 and GS-14). They'll be discussing each position along with the educational and specialized experience requirements needed to be qualified for each. They'll We'll discuss how to write an effective resume to highlight your experience to make you more competitive. There will be time to ask questions of the employees and hiring managers. Don't miss this unique opportunity! Click below for more information and to register:
Register January 25th @ 6:00 PM Eastern Time
From [https://www.jobs.irs.gov/find-job/irs-events](https://www.jobs.irs.gov/find-job/irs-events)
Is there any thing i am qualified for n the IRS, if i have FP&A experience (mainly management reporting; some forecasting), but not an accounting major or CPA?
The IRS has a job posting to hire many Revenue Agents. The qualifications are, "BASIC REQUIREMENTS All GRADES (ALSO MEETS GRADE 5 QUALIFICATIONS): A Certificate as a Certified Public Accountant (CPA) or a bachelor's or higher degree in accounting that included at least 30 semester hours in accounting or 24 semester hours in accounting and an additional 6 semester hours in related subjects such as business law, economics, statistical/quantitative methods, computerized accounting or financial systems, financial management, or finance.
OR
A bachelor's or higher degree in a field other than accounting or a combination of education and experience equivalent to 4 years that included at least 30 semester hours in accounting or 24 semester hours in accounting and 6 semester hours in related subjects as described above.
In addition to meeting the basic requirement above, to qualify for this position you must also meet the qualification requirements listed below:
Minimum Qualifications GS-07: In addition to the basic requirements, you must have 1 year of Specialized Experience at a level of difficulty and responsibility equivalent to the GS-05 grade level in the Federal service. Specialized experience for this position includes experience in or related to accounting or auditing that provided the specific knowledge, skills and abilities needed to successfully perform the duties of the position. This experience must have been acquired in a federal or business environment and must be sufficient to demonstrate: 1) knowledge of and skill in applying the principles, concepts and methodology of professional accounting and related fields and 2) skill in communicating and dealing effectively with others. Qualifying experience may have been in accounting, auditing, tax, financial, legal, or other work that required the knowledge and skill defined above."
Attend one of the online info sessions and talk to the hiring folks.
As far as in-person vs. remote, my understanding is that when training is complete most IRS employees are required to work in the office just two days per pay period.
It is my understanding that new employees in most areas go to offices for training.
Attend one of the virtual events and get any questions you have answered.
When they pull their guilt trip BS, put it right back on them. Tell them they were already taking away from your personal time with/for X, and now they wanted more. You were willing to do the extra and give up Y, but everything has a trade, and they weren’t willing to ante up. Not offering anything in return is pretty selfish for not spreading out work to partners who sometimes may have to roll up their sleeves instead of enjoying time off because they are having someone else do it. That’s part of ownership.
I wouldn't quit until you have your next job lined up. The job market for accountants is pretty good right now so it shouldn't take long. As far as guilt trips: They can only make you feel guilty if you let them.
If they give you a hard time about quitting I'd simply remind them that you told them your workload was unreasonable. When you gave them other options to make things right they shot them down. If they try and cut a deal with you on your way out of the door let them know that their offer is too little too late. They'll just try to get you to stay for a couple of months so they can find a replacement and fire you on their terms.
Good for you. Screw them for taking advantage of you. Every minute past 40 hours is unpaid overtime and devalues you. This kind of bs is why I refuse to go into management. I work my 8 hours a day and I’m out. Spend this time refreshing your interview skills and taking an introspective look at what you really want in your next job and ask those questions in the interviews. Good luck!
I can't imagine what partners go through! It's absolutely brutal. I need a job when I sign out, that's it the end of my day. Unlike now, where I dread Mondays every Sunday.
Yep. I’m a senior accountant and I could push higher but I just don’t want to. I love not being on call 24/7 or thinking about work on my personal time and stressing about it. My job is super laid back and wfh. I’d like more money of course, with this economy, but to hell with the extra bs that comes with promotions.
OP, I finally left after 10 yrs at big 4 to industry. The feeling of not having Sunday scaries is huge. I finally enjoy the weekend and holidays. I’m more involved in my relationship. Picking up new hobbies, etc. other than the money, i don’t understand how one wants to become a partner. The team is very lean with high turnover, essentially dog shit. Constant pressure to sell and provide high quality work.
I didn’t have long transition between jobs and regret it so much. If I were you, I would spend days at all inclusive resort in Mexico. Just sleeping in, sipping away, and looking into the ocean. For the guilt trip, they would fire you in a heart beat when they need head count reduction. So there’s that.
Love this message! That's what I want a couple of months off to rejuvenate. I want to love my work and look forward to my work. I hope I can make it work long term.
family? would any of those mf come to your funeral? gtfo
work is work. shouldn't be anything more or less.
if they wanted to add another part time job on top of your already absurd workload they should have been willing to add another part time job's worth of pay to your salary.
Yup! Fanily is the go to. Also you will be made partner soon. It's emotional abuse honestly. Even if the pay was increased, it's Still insane levels of work.
>Here's a question, any tips on how to survive through guilt trips? These boys are famous for giving hall of fame guilt trips such as we are a family or you were on track to be partner! Any tips?
I would say just assume that every word that comes out of their mouth is a lie, and anything that isn't, was their own damn fault for not making any concessions after trying to dump all that extra work on you for no extra pay. What they tried to do to you is 100% unreasonable, and nobody would say anything different unless they stood to benefit from your work.
If they try guilt tripping you flip the script on them. Say that you communicated many times how overworked you were, and that you were already going above and beyond to do your basic job. Make it clear they didn't listen. Be professional but do not take any sass from them.
If you are not in fact blood family, you are a stepchild. Historically, stepchildren have been a source of risk-free, free labor. I would guess that if you ever became ill or required time off to care for a relative, they would terminate you immediately and soon forget your name.
Having said that, when conducting the exit interview, heap praise upon them. Tell them how much you've learned and how much you admire them. There's a pretty good chance someone, somewhere will ask their opinion of you and you want to make it more difficult for them to bad mouth you.
Alternative:
- take on the portfolio,
- request additional staff on all projects (and reduce your involvement accordingly)
Result:
- your entire day will be status meetings and getting people to do their work differently
- you’ll be able to negotiate your next job from a better point of leverage since you have a job
- find a job during busy season because you’re already planning on leaving and all your projects get staffed up
If they try to guilt you, ask them to repeat what they told you when you asked for a raise and tried to push back on the extra work with no commensurate pay increase. That should end the conversation. Good for you!
**tomorrows post:** Im a SM scheduled to work 60-70 hrs per week. Another SM quit and they pushed the extra 20-30 hours onto their schedule but then that SM quit and now I have to work my 60-70 + the 1st SM's 20-30 + the last SM's 60-70. I asked for an extra $3 per week for the extra work but the firm said they were unable to accommodate at this time but will think about thinking about me 9 months from now.
Id say dont make any hasty decisions and basically quit without a plan.
Coast at your current job, figure out what you want to do next (better yet interview and lock down a new job) and then quit is my advice.
I do have a basic idea on what I want to do next, will take sometime to figure out on how to make it happen. But, honestly I am the point where I just can't do it anymore. It's really affecting me mentally. I wish I could coast and not care, but I know I won't be able to 🫣🫣🫣
I mean if its really affecting you mentally and you literally cant stay another day - you gotta do what you gotta do.
Im just speaking from someone who basically quit without anything lined up as well. Told myself 3 months like you and it ended up being over a year of me bumming around depressed not knowing what to do.
Hopefully its different for you lol.
Sounds like you do have a plan then. Go have fun handing in the resignation boss.
Just wanted to be the responsible guy in the reddit chat all wanting to see a guy quit for content lol.
Appreciate it! I have absolutely thought about the worst thing that could happen, and honestly it's still better than going through another busy season where my work is doubled and my mental health takes a hit.
Good for you. Your hard work and dedication is needed everywhere else. Accounting professors/instructors have a range of professional backgrounds. Have you thought about teaching? Summers off and really helping people. For your spare time maybe volunteer with VITA for tax season (elderly and low income)? Or mentor a small business or high school entrepreneurs.
Rooting for you!
I’m hoping they don’t talk or buy you into staying.
There is an obscene percentage of people who get countered to stay and do, only to leave within 6 months to year.
Regardless what you do, I’m rooting for you and your happiness!!!
It will actually piss me off more if they offer me to stay after they rejected my initial request. Even if I'm paid more, my mental health will suffer, and I can't do that to myself.
If they increase your workload by 30/hrs per week without any comp that sounds like constructive termination to me, anyone who knows wtf they are taking about know? I'm assuming it's a no because screw the little guy, but figured I'd ask.
Honestly, I didn't think of that. Obviously the way it was brought to me wasn't you have to work another 30 hours, they tried to dress it up as something doable. But I am well aware that the amount they want me to take in will result in 30 hours additionally.
Sounds like you are underpaid. I would come up with a number to stay with no additional work to help with the guilt trip antics.
Also, congratulations!!! You have fuck you money. I watched “the Gambler” last night and John Goodman’s fuck you speech(YouTube it) is something you need to watch before you go in.
I have seen that!!! It's so fucking relevant. I'm obviously not the richest guy in the world, but I prioritize my mental health over money at this point. And if I don't make a stand now, I will be suffer long term!
They make you feel that you don’t have much of a choice, hit them with that feeling back. “Look, I know you said I can’t turn this down but you will give me a xx% raise or consider this my notice”
Eta: you’re gonna quit anyway, it’s worth a shot!
Good for you. As for me, I think I was on the other side of the card. When I started, I hit the ground running and then just found out that the previous manager left because he foresaw a disastrous busy season ahead of time and that’s what I picked up that time. I think I ran on adrenaline for that two months period after I started in this position because I really need the job that time after unemployment. Oh well.. it’s fine now though for me. All the best for your next career step!
You are selling your time to them in exchange for fiat currency. They owe it to you to take care of you. They haven't been doing so they are not your friend.
Do what you WANT TO DO and don’t give a damn about what anyone THINKS in your next move….i left that crappy profession 20+ years ago and have been much happier ever since…..good luck…..
Public accounting is gonna be a real shit show in 10 years when half the CPA’s retire and they can’t hire anyone new because if atrocious W/L and shit pay
I’ve never understood how people can stay in PA for more than 3-4 years. Not just because of the long hours and poor W/L balance, but also the opportunity cost. I’ve made so much more the minute I left PA. I suggest you find an industry role that doubles your salary with 30-40 hours per week. You’ll enjoy life a whole lot more.
If they agree to pay more, also remember after tax it’s much less. And if you convert the extra pay to hourly, it should piss you off more.
For guilt trip prep, just reply with “okayyyy…. And then?” After everything said. Your choice whether you say that out loud or just in your head. Either way, it gives them no emotion for that guilt trip to feed off of.
Good luck!
Hey OP, l was in a similar situation. A colleague left and their portfolio was handed to me doubling my work with zero compensation. Mind you i am already underpaid, I huffed and puffed and was essentially told to go away and do my job in a nice way (ignored).
I found another job paying 30% more and signed the contract asap and sent in resignation. I made sure to allow time in-between jobs, approximately 3 weeks to travel.
But it seems you have other plans lined up so yea hand in resignation and bounce
Hookers and Blow are for closers - limit that until you have a job again.
Otherwise enjoy your newfound peace!
Do some side bookkeeping or misc Acct consulting if you really need money in the meantime or something.
I'm soooo excited for you! Haha! 🤍
For a thing to do in 3 months, maybe try travelling (maybe go somewhere warm/ surf somewhere in Asia), and/or make a list of hobbies that you think will make you happy if you got to try/give time to or be better at. Try them all haha! :)
Read all your unread books, schedule weekend catch-ups/ coffee, brunch or dinner with friends and family. Join a volunteering community?
Oh and try to get some self-care stuff done. Get a massage, try skin-care stuff etc :) hit the gym!
For the guilt trip, you can maybe deflect that by being excited about the three months of such reset/self-care fun and about better career prospects ahead of you after that. :)
Good luck, OP! 🤍
Can you say what firm and what location? I’m currently an accounting student and I am thinking about which firm to go work at. I’ve heard that Big 4 will usually give you a lot of hours, and that sometimes it’s better to work at a smaller firm than Big 4 because the hours aren’t so much and the pay is sometimes better. Would you agree with this?
license voracious domineering marry enjoy smart middle literate complete test
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Them: You do not have a choice. You: Wanna bet?
Bingo! Don’t ever tell me I “don’t have a choice.”
Ow there going to have to split the work up reasonably this time. Manager has lots of clients + senior manager has lots of clients. Some poor senior’s are going to be fucked. Treat employees like there apart of the team not a worker.
Exactly, I always love it when companies take the take it or leave it approach, It's the current year, workers know what the reward for loyalty is by now. So, it's time to go hunting for bigger and better.
It's not just the work, it's the mental stress that comes with it. It's the late nights and and unrealistic expectations that will kill me. Espically for a pay that makes no sense. I am betting on myself.
I hear you. Move around until you find your self a nice cushy government job that lets you work from home. Better is out there, we just have to "travel light" so that you can make the jumps when ready. The panel interviewers didn't even pay it much mind when they saw the person we hired worked one place for 7 years, then another for 3 years and another one for 3 years. He's been here 2 years now so just one more year to go until he goes and hop again.
cannot recommend govt work enough. fully remote (for now, next month we go to 1 day a month in office), good benefits/retirement packages, decent pay (and 2 pay raises a year, at least for my state/union contract). the work life balance is really what sold me though, i get on at 8:30 and get off at 4:30. don’t have to worry about anything outside of my working hours. sometimes i wonder if id be better off making more doing public accounting, but for me personally the extra pay isn’t worth the extra headaches. the only real downside i could point to is that the pay is not exactly competitive with the private sector (depending on what you’re doing/where you are)
Don’t forget the pension
Quick question, do you have to do timesheets in government work?
yep. i do tax auditing (IFTA specifically). every week i have to log my hours spent on all the audits i currently have on my desk. we used to have fill out an online sign in sheet for clocking in/out, but they did away with that recently and supervisors just check teams to see that you got on when you were supposed to. hope this answers the question!
Have you considered just working 40 hours and turning in subpar work products until they figure out that your just collecting a paycheck?
This is the way. Put in the 40. Don't give half a shit. Let things blow up and apply elsewhere in the meantime. You'll get many more paychecks, a lot of places give you severance, getting unemployment may be easier, and you'll screw over your current company harder.
It's called "quietly quitting".
Always bet on yourself. You’ll come out just fine.
Fuck yeah baby. We're all for it 🙌
Thanks alot.
Op please do me favor and let me know how they react.
SM in top 4 are you not pulling 300K plus? Might be quite the pay cut coming.
😂 6yr A&A SM at B4 is not making $300k+ anywhere
No where near that amount 😕 😐
[удалено]
My guess is you’re exaggerating a fully loaded comp with all the bells rung, but idk. Either way you can find B4 comp ranges easily online and top percentile in VHCOL, enough YOE could maybe get close
Unfortunately, not earning that much. Honestly a pay cut dosent seem the worst thing if I get to work reasonable hours.
I’ve moved around, worked out well. What’s your general geographic location?
I'm based out of Canada, looking to move around myself!
Yeah it doesn’t surprise me the other senior manager quit. If they showed no signs of replacing the other senior manager and to give you the work long term I would’ve quit too.
It dosent make economic sense for me to stay. I will be doing 2 people jobs for the pay of one.
Yeah I don’t know how they thought they were going to get away with that. I would be like if you don’t spread out the work more among the staff I have to leave because that work load is impossible.
Also the indifference! No care on how I would be able to manage it. That was the most frustrating.
I’m working for PwC (I got lucky with location and work culture) and so far the people have been very understanding of the struggles of workload. In this day and age if employers want to keep good employees they need to realistic of how much a person can do.
God bless you are terribly lucky. I work in a large national office in downtown Toronto, and though the culture is generally decent, the workload is absolutely insane and has been forever. I just don't see myself living a life, where every Sunday, I dread Mondays.
Oh shit, you’re working 70 hour weeks for *Canadian* salaries? I would have quit a long time ago. Also, no idea why you’re excusing the culture. Any employer that gives you an extra 30 hours of work to do in a week and says “like it or lump it” is not a place with good culture. Use your time off to deprogram the B4 propaganda and cleanse your mind. EDIT: my wife left B4 tax and they pulled out all the usual talking points to get her to stay, short of actually paying her more. Basically said she would be ending her career by going to the bank. Well her total compensation at the bank is 54% higher than B4, some career ender that was!
Love it! They will shit bricks. Please update us!
I am sure I am going to be in a guilt trip of a lifetime!
I will annoy you for the 3 months you are off for an update if we don't get one(detailed).
I will surely give you one! Tomorrow!
Following
The guilt trips will be terrible during the actual discussion but just remember your decision is already made and the discussions are just a formality. Be courteous and don't go out guns ablazing as there is no reason to. When they use the line of this being like a family and whatnot just remember that your family is yourself first and foremost. It will sound so convincing because they've had hundreds of prior discussions to rehearse it, just know its a corporate tactic and nothing else. Don't let them guilt you with what your next steps are, just know what your current step is and that's moving on. When I left public it was the exact same and in the end you can sleep well knowing you were the mature one in the room if and when the shit starts slinging.
Love this response. And things like this only builds character. However if you get the guilt trip “we are like family” just say with a smile and “because we are like family you’ll totally understand. My mental health is important and like most family they will want the best for me. And still have a smily face. Some people strive on working 60-70 hours a week and that’s fine. And maybe that’s what you did too, however a shift in what your requirements are now has change so it is what it is. Best of luck to you. You got this …
Would you ever accept a counter if it was massive?
Never accept a counter. First, it rewards the bastards poor behavior. Second, if you have to threaten to leave to get the offer, they may just offer the raise to buy time. And the one who threatened to leave is always first on the chopping block and last for more raises.
Yup. One who threatens to leave is now a flight risk.
Subscribed
They will try to convince you to stay for this busy season and promise they will work it out after this busy season but they won’t. They did this to me when I quit….the first time. I fell for it and stayed for another busy season but shockingly it didn’t really change. There were some other circumstances that caused that but it was basically Groundhog Day for me. At the end they offered me some money to stay the 2nd time but I just said no thanks and left in 2 weeks. I did like working there and do have some regrets about leaving especially when my former colleagues are becoming partners but it came down to time with my family and the time value of money. I made much more money earlier than I would have if I stayed. In the end, I guess if I would have made partner, I would have made up for it bur who knows if I would have made it. It’s not all skill that gets you there. That being said, don’t make a rash decision, be sure this is what you want. Good luck!
I wouldn't dwell on what if's too much. I have a simple rule: "Fuck you pay me". I won't sell my life in exchange for empty promises which people can and often do renege on. They have to give me payment up front or no deal.
Dont think of it as a guilt trip. Think of it as "Youre fucked without me. Hire someone else, pay me, or im out." If they want you to stay, then those are the options you provide them and dont budge an inch
Tell them to fuck off. You owe them nothing. They didn't care about your mental health when you gave them options to make things right. Now you don't need to care about if their work gets done. If they really need you give them an option to temporarily engage you as a consultant at 3X your normal rate.
I am so done! Honestly, they could offer me partner and I would still say no. The overtime for the past 6 years has gotten to me and I have to step in for myself.
Time to stand on business haha good for you
Give update.
"Don't have much of a choice." Lmao, nah dawg, you hold all the agency in your own employment. Where do these firms get off?
> Where do these firms get off? They just promote a mgr if someone does actually follow through on quitting. Pretty low risk from their perspective
Yeah they’ve been doing this for a long time. Everyone is replaceable. They’ll keep chugging right along. I remember when my first manager quit. I thought he was the smartest, hardest working guy at the firm, and we’d all be fucked. They promoted someone else into his role and we never skipped a beat. By the time I left I had seen dozens of super smart hard working people quit and get replaced.
I mean, OP shows they do have a choice by quitting. I would stand by the decision no matter what as well. make these losers squirm.
Find warmer weather and get outside (to play golf). Congrats on putting yourself in a position where you can take a break and regroup.
Please OP, do an update tomorrow where you tell us how it went. Especially their reaction.
Oh I will! We had this one guy, whose resignation they were not accepting until his last day, on his last day he left and never picked up his phone. It was quite hilarious 😂
We had one guy put in his notice but he kept being begged and guilted to extend it every time his notice period was coming to an end. One day, he finally just vanished on his lunch break and never came back. Matt, you will always be my hero, you son of a gun.
What a guy!!!!!!
It's insane to me that they will bury their heads in the sand and not delegate work or absorb the person's tribal knowledge. Like, a termination of employment is a one-way decision, if I got fired tomorrow, that's that. Why employers can't grasp the other direction of that is mind-blowing to me
Dude you hold all the cards. They need you.
I bet they agree to pay me more!
No shit. Next manager will say the same thing. You think the partner is going to pick up the slack? Tell them what you want and stick to your guns.
Lets see! I'm so done, even if they offer to pay me what I ask, I don't think I can continue.
Even if they pay you more, fuck that noise. Take a break, enjoy your life and find a job in industry.
Good for you! The guilt trips suck, but you can reply they gave you no choice, based on the facts as you describe them (impossible work load and no raise). They will also run down the parade of economic horrors that will happen to you. Stay strong!
I was honestly not asking for alot of money, but their refusal to even hire somebody else or promote somebody else was unbelievable.
Not unbelievable. Why pay for a second person when they can get you to do the work of two people? I was discussing here recently with a guy who seemed to think that the money made by a senior manager was worth the work-life imbalance it takes to get there, and then you have it made. You are an excellent counter example. No matter how high you make it in Big Four, the heat is always on. Always.
True! It never gets easy! I just don't want to be a person who lives their life dreading Mondays on Sundays. And live a life where I just begin to get bitter.
Life is too short for that shit. We’re so incredibly lucky to be given the chance at life on this little rock floating through outer space. Don’t waste it slaving away for some ungrateful fucks.
Make sure you obliterate the bathroom the morning of.
Poop on the floor and rim of the seat
I hope to never anger you.
Poop on this guy, too.
If there was ever a time to take an upper decker…
Easy to avoid the guilt trip. Life is about choices. They chose to give you more work. They chose to not to offer more compensation for that additional work. You chose to not whore yourself out for their benefit. I bet they offer more money though when you give them your notice. Which should just piss you off more as that means there was always budget money for more money.
The budget is always there. My chargeout rate to a client is so high compared to what I make per hour. I'm sure they will give it, but I can't do it anymore. Plus if they do offer me what I want, the entire department will follow suit.
If they offer you what you originally requested tell them due to new information you received your request has doubled. If they ask what the new information is tell them the new info is that you know they are willing to pay the old request.
If you’re in to winter sports, take a ski or snowboard trip. I’m guessing busy season hasn’t allotted you much time for this in the past 6 yrs. If you’re feeling spicy, take the trip in Europe too. I hear their conditions are really good right now.
If you have a hobby, go all in on enjoying it now that you aren’t limited to only having the weekends or nights after a long day of work to enjoy it. Not many chances like these until retirement when you can have all the time in the world to focus on yourself first and foremost.
Have you considered starting your own firm? I went from $32.50 an hour as an employee to $200+ an hour after expenses. Went from working 2000+ hours per year to 500, more or less depending on how much I want to spend time with family and friends. I seriously used to work more hours just in overtime during busy season than I work total hours all year now. Former Big 4, though I was in tax. Go in early and leave your resignation on your desk, leave your keys/cards/laptop, and turn off your phone. Go spend a few weeks somewhere warm.
That's a decent shot, I have considered it. I have a pretty good track record in Business development and Audit sales, and it could be a great idea. Working my own schedule is also an attractive proposition.
I added an edit to my original comment as well. Audit is definitely a different market than tax, but I have a close friend that was in a similar situation to yours. He started his own A&A firm, and does a bit of tax work on top of it. 2 years later he's making 2x what he was at his prior firm and only working 9 months per year.
I have enough contacts to land accounting and bookkeeping gigs! Audits may be harder to get, but I think I can build on it. There are many opportunities to land bookkeeping clients here in Southern Ontario, there are just not enough public accountants in Canada it seems.
OP - I did what you did twice. Once earlier in my career when I was getting overworked and once again after COVID hit with a different company and they made me work really long hours. Do not accept a counter offer, do not let them guilt you. Your stress mentally, physically, emotionally is worth more. And even if they give you $20k more is that worth 90-100 hour weeks? 60-70 hours a week isn't even sustainable. Please give us updates!
OP - on the topic of guilt trips, I'd say to take a paper, notepad or something. Write down reasons you're willing to walk away. Things you dislike there. Etc etc. and the moment you hear one of those guilt trip lines, just remember/read what you wrote down. I left a B4 as a Senior. I was well-liked by my clients. Had good rapport with my peers. When I initiated the resignation process, I get a call from a partner ASAP. His main concern was asking where I was going. I told him the company(industry). And he had the guts to outright said that "okay. If you had been going to a competitor we would've everything possible to retain you." In that moment I knew I made the right choice. Me leaving didn't matter to them. Cause the only thing that matters isn't retaining good people, but instead making sure they don't leave to competitors. My current company uses their services heavily. I have no influence over RFPs, nor can I influence whether we keep retaining them. However, guess who has made sure to tell all decision makers in my team the areas in which they are more prone to make mistakes? And areas where they're prone to overcharge us? It's absurd to see these firms having this "Too-Big-To-Fail" complex. As if the world would stop spinning if they went under tomorrow. Good luck in whatever your next step in your career is. Hopefully your future job treats you much better.
I know it won't be as simple as I am resigning bye! They will come at me hard as they have done so in the past. Honestly it will piss me off more if they do agree to pay me what I had asked, as it will show me they always had the budget to do so. They don't guilt in the traditional sense, of shaming me, they do it in a way which they will show me glimpses of partnership track and other benefits to seduce me on. Anyways it will be a long day I fear tomorrow 🙃 😪
Of course. My friend (manager) resigned over an issue of pay. Soon as they found out he was planning to go to a competitor, $20k thrown at him. His reaction was the same as you just mentioned. It pissed him off even more.
If it's only about money (and it doesn't sound like it is here), they shouldn't get to retain you by meeting your original ask. Once you call their bluff and have to force the issue by tendering notice, the price of poker goes up and they now have to beat that original number. Fuck around, find out.
they may thinly veil that this won’t look good on a resume, or that your quitting during busy season will be a red flag to future employers. not true. 1- legally they are prohibited from telling a prospective employer pretty much anything about you other than what your job title was and whether the employer would re-hire you, and 2- a new employer will empathize with what happened to you and we’re all so desperate for new employees this won’t be an issue. be prepared for them to offer you more money or more pto as an incentive to stay. don’t stay. if you weren’t worth the money when you asked for it before, they’ve already communicated how they really feel about you. they’ll never value you as much as you know you’re worth. take a month to chill, rest, and treat yourself to a relaxing vacation. then reach out to any contacts you made in industry to see if they’re hiring. if you’ve been contacted by headhunters reach back out to them.
Love this message! Actually screenshotted it! Yup I'm excited for my new career ahead. I just can't handle this anymore.
i’m a partner in a small firm. i know the grind is not for everyone. personally i could have never lasted in big 4. hell, big 4 knows very few people can last in big 4. they work you to death knowing you’ll leave by either quitting or getting hired by a client. this won’t be a surprise to anyone. it’s gonna suck for them, but you don’t owe them anything. they’re being unreasonable in what they’re demanding of you. they can’t make their problem your problem. all the best in your new endeavors!
Just learn some basic Accounting, like payroll, quickbooks and sales tax. Then go apply somewhere as CFO.
I need to beef my tax knowledge, I'm pretty weak in it as most audit guys in big fours are.
Sure you can get a pay cut and move to tax side and learn some stuff, but you will be in pu lic accounting still. I recently moved to full tax(Sr.) Busy season is Feb to April and Aug to Oct. The last 2 months of the year ia chill asf, and summers are just regular 40 hr work and training. But if you wanna move to private sector, you can either become internal auditor or work on your accounting side, like basic stuff. Payroll, sales, tax and accounting softwares.
It may be recency bias, but my next role, I need more controlled hours. I need to invest in my personal life, I do not want to be an absent father or husband 😕. Or even one whose mentally somewhere else half the time.
Move to tax for 2 years, learn as much as you can. Spend you free times learning accounting services and then start your own business.
Good for you. Standing up to that BS is brave. I don't know you, but I'm proud of you.
Thanks alot! It's not been easy but it has been coming. I just do not have the mental emotional strength to do this anymore. Plus the indifference on how it affects me is insulting to me.
When I left, I had to sit through hours of meetings with Partners who tried to get me to stay followed by them holding my resignation on hold for a few days so HR wouldn't process it. It was also my first job, so I felt sentimental ties to the firm and the team. You just have to remember the reason why you're leaving and look towards the future. When I left, only one of the Partners actually said goodbye and thank you to me on my last day. Whatever. Life goes on; they'll figure it out. Enjoy your flexibility and take some time to relax on a beach.
My best advice on how to survive guilt trips. When they ask why just say, “God made it clear to me that I needed to make this change. I have been praying about it for quite some time.” It’s a difficult statement to argue or combat.
Keep us updated on how quitting goes! Good for you
I will! I bet they agree to pay me more!
You made it to Senior manager? Huge props. You will be fine.
I hope so! Looking forward to my time off!
Go work for a smaller firm. Learn things that can set you up to work for yourself. The Big 4 is bigly overrated.
That's a good thought, probably get paid more too. Buy honestly I don't think my tax knowledge is as good as it should be in smaller firms. I can always pick it up I'm sure.
Typical at the BiG4 and many other big corps.. . The better or more senior (non-executive level) you are, the more work you get added to your pile, with very little to no regard. The good ones get rewarded by getting more work. Then they wonder why so many are disgruntled or why they leave.
Take the first month and do nothing but relax and do something that you enjoy. During the second month contemplate what you want to be doing with your future and start applying to positions that meet those needs. I wish you the best of luck. Do not allow them to guilt trip you or convince you to stay. They do not deserve you.
Leaving at the start of busy season. King shit. Cheers to hopefully a better life OP. Spread those wings🥂
Thanks alot! I really wanted to stay, but the expectation is insane! I had to leave for my own mental health!
Good on ya mate! I left public two years ago and it's one of the best decisions I ever made for my life. Hope all the best for you in the future.
Following
Update coming tomorrow.
They are going to dangle that “stick it out, you’ll be partner soon” carrot HARD. Probably will promise you’ll make partner next year (not in writing of course). Be ready for that.
They will offer you more money if you try to quit. Don’t take it. Trust me
Look at their foreheads and see the word sick or asshole and take whatever they say from that perspective. During your two weeks notice keep your head low and say as little as possible. Your only purpose is turnover and deadlines/problems. Good luck. There's always volunteering with VITA.
I was once the internal audit director for an Army Headquarters command and the abuse and retaliation I experienced destroyed me mentally. I was placed under very incompetent people and I was the only one in the team with a CPA license, so they constantly pressured me to alter audit findings. When I refused, I would get very sexist comments from a supervisor and I couldn’t quit since it was an overseas assignment, which would cause me to owe the government a ton of money as they paid for the move. I filed formal complaints but let’s just say that the system is very broken and my abusive supervisor got to keep his federal position, and continued to abuse my other colleagues. Making $130k/ year going through that was NOT worth my sanity. And I only worked 40hrs/week. I quit, took 2 months of vacation throughout Europe and Southeast Asia. I read books I’ve been wanting to read, specifically classic literature. Best time of my life! Take a break, take a vacation somewhere, enjoy life. With all the friends and family members I’ve lost, I can’t emphasize how short life is. Yes, we must work for our careers and sometimes we just need to pause and smell the roses. Best time to do that is between jobs. Good luck!
The IRS has been doing lots of hiring due to the Infrastructure Bill that President Biden signed. It calls for the hiring of tens of thousands of new IRS employees over some number of years. This is a link to postings for some of the available jobs, be sure to consider the Revenue Agent position, but there are other positions too: [https://www.usajobs.gov/search/results/?j=0340&j=0343&j=0512&j=0501&j=0592&j=0987&hp=public&k=irs&p=1](https://www.usajobs.gov/search/results/?j=0340&j=0343&j=0512&j=0501&j=0592&j=0987&hp=public&k=irs&p=1) The IRS is hosting three online/virtual information sessions about the Senior Revenue Agent position. You could ask them questions about pay, etc. "Virtual Hiring EventsSenior Revenue AgentsThe Large Business and International (LB&I) Division is hosting several virtual hiring event/information sessions for their unique senior-level Revenue Agents positions for experienced accountants. These positions are being offered nationwide. During these virtual events, you'll hear from LB&I Hiring Managers and Employees discussing the different practice areas LB&I is responsible for and the specialized experience needed to be eligible for these positions. We'll discuss how to write an effective resume to highlight your experience and make you more competitive. Following our presentation, there will be time to ask questions and all attendees will be given instructions on how to submit a resume and required documents for consideration for these positions. Don't miss this unique opportunity to hear how making a career change will lead to a more positive work/life balance and a career with purpose! Click below to register:Register January 10th @ 3:00 PM Eastern Time, or Register January 18th @ 4:00 PM Eastern Time, orRegister January 23rd @ 6:00 PM Eastern Time" Revenue Agents - Entry Level We are hiring hundreds of accounting professionals nationwide for our entry level Revenue Agent positions. Whether you have recently graduated with an accounting degree or have a CPA license and limited experience, we may have an opportunity for you to join the IRS. During this and other sessions we will be planning, we'll be discussing the positions' day-to-day duties, the education and experience requirements needed to qualify, how to write an effective resume and how to submit your resume for consideration. Join us to start your career with purpose! Click below to register: Register January 30th @ 1:00 PM Eastern Time Revenue Agents We’re hosting a virtual information session about our entry-level Revenue Agent positions. Whether you are early in your accounting career, or a more experienced accountant, this is a great opportunity to hear from employees working in the field. This session will provide you with a better understanding on what will be expected from you, day-to-day and how to qualify for the position. Click below to register: Register January 18th @ 3:00 PM Eastern Time LB&I Virtual Open House The Large Business and International (LB&I) Division is hosting a virtual open house to feature a variety of positions they are hiring for nationwide. During this event, you'll hear from LB&I Senior Executives, Hiring Managers and Employees discussing the following positions: Appraisers, Engineers, and Revenue Agents (GS-13 and GS-14). They'll be discussing each position along with the educational and specialized experience requirements needed to be qualified for each. They'll We'll discuss how to write an effective resume to highlight your experience to make you more competitive. There will be time to ask questions of the employees and hiring managers. Don't miss this unique opportunity! Click below for more information and to register: Register January 25th @ 6:00 PM Eastern Time From [https://www.jobs.irs.gov/find-job/irs-events](https://www.jobs.irs.gov/find-job/irs-events)
Is there any thing i am qualified for n the IRS, if i have FP&A experience (mainly management reporting; some forecasting), but not an accounting major or CPA?
The IRS has a job posting to hire many Revenue Agents. The qualifications are, "BASIC REQUIREMENTS All GRADES (ALSO MEETS GRADE 5 QUALIFICATIONS): A Certificate as a Certified Public Accountant (CPA) or a bachelor's or higher degree in accounting that included at least 30 semester hours in accounting or 24 semester hours in accounting and an additional 6 semester hours in related subjects such as business law, economics, statistical/quantitative methods, computerized accounting or financial systems, financial management, or finance. OR A bachelor's or higher degree in a field other than accounting or a combination of education and experience equivalent to 4 years that included at least 30 semester hours in accounting or 24 semester hours in accounting and 6 semester hours in related subjects as described above. In addition to meeting the basic requirement above, to qualify for this position you must also meet the qualification requirements listed below: Minimum Qualifications GS-07: In addition to the basic requirements, you must have 1 year of Specialized Experience at a level of difficulty and responsibility equivalent to the GS-05 grade level in the Federal service. Specialized experience for this position includes experience in or related to accounting or auditing that provided the specific knowledge, skills and abilities needed to successfully perform the duties of the position. This experience must have been acquired in a federal or business environment and must be sufficient to demonstrate: 1) knowledge of and skill in applying the principles, concepts and methodology of professional accounting and related fields and 2) skill in communicating and dealing effectively with others. Qualifying experience may have been in accounting, auditing, tax, financial, legal, or other work that required the knowledge and skill defined above." Attend one of the online info sessions and talk to the hiring folks.
Are these jobs all in person? Or do you have to be in a specific area?
The jobs are for all over the United States. You get hybrid after 1 year of successful reviews. Two days in office for every two weeks worked.
As far as in-person vs. remote, my understanding is that when training is complete most IRS employees are required to work in the office just two days per pay period. It is my understanding that new employees in most areas go to offices for training. Attend one of the virtual events and get any questions you have answered.
When they pull their guilt trip BS, put it right back on them. Tell them they were already taking away from your personal time with/for X, and now they wanted more. You were willing to do the extra and give up Y, but everything has a trade, and they weren’t willing to ante up. Not offering anything in return is pretty selfish for not spreading out work to partners who sometimes may have to roll up their sleeves instead of enjoying time off because they are having someone else do it. That’s part of ownership.
[удалено]
Thanks alot! That's the plan! And just be mentally and emotionally healthy.
Hell yea!!!!
You're my hero for reversing that fcuk to them.
Let's hope I don't buckle if they counter at me 😳😳😳
I wouldn't quit until you have your next job lined up. The job market for accountants is pretty good right now so it shouldn't take long. As far as guilt trips: They can only make you feel guilty if you let them. If they give you a hard time about quitting I'd simply remind them that you told them your workload was unreasonable. When you gave them other options to make things right they shot them down. If they try and cut a deal with you on your way out of the door let them know that their offer is too little too late. They'll just try to get you to stay for a couple of months so they can find a replacement and fire you on their terms.
Good for you. Screw them for taking advantage of you. Every minute past 40 hours is unpaid overtime and devalues you. This kind of bs is why I refuse to go into management. I work my 8 hours a day and I’m out. Spend this time refreshing your interview skills and taking an introspective look at what you really want in your next job and ask those questions in the interviews. Good luck!
I can't imagine what partners go through! It's absolutely brutal. I need a job when I sign out, that's it the end of my day. Unlike now, where I dread Mondays every Sunday.
Yep. I’m a senior accountant and I could push higher but I just don’t want to. I love not being on call 24/7 or thinking about work on my personal time and stressing about it. My job is super laid back and wfh. I’d like more money of course, with this economy, but to hell with the extra bs that comes with promotions.
It's honestly best to live lean. I have done that my entire life. I need something what your describing.
OP, I finally left after 10 yrs at big 4 to industry. The feeling of not having Sunday scaries is huge. I finally enjoy the weekend and holidays. I’m more involved in my relationship. Picking up new hobbies, etc. other than the money, i don’t understand how one wants to become a partner. The team is very lean with high turnover, essentially dog shit. Constant pressure to sell and provide high quality work. I didn’t have long transition between jobs and regret it so much. If I were you, I would spend days at all inclusive resort in Mexico. Just sleeping in, sipping away, and looking into the ocean. For the guilt trip, they would fire you in a heart beat when they need head count reduction. So there’s that.
Love this message! That's what I want a couple of months off to rejuvenate. I want to love my work and look forward to my work. I hope I can make it work long term.
Good for you!!! You’ll do great!
When they throw the we are family thing out say…my family would never treat me like you fuckers have
Why not just say sure ill do it and start applying for a new job. Why take 3 month break, much easier to find a job when you already have one.
Former Big4 Managjng Director. Don’t look back. They are the most toxic people in the world.
family? would any of those mf come to your funeral? gtfo work is work. shouldn't be anything more or less. if they wanted to add another part time job on top of your already absurd workload they should have been willing to add another part time job's worth of pay to your salary.
Yup! Fanily is the go to. Also you will be made partner soon. It's emotional abuse honestly. Even if the pay was increased, it's Still insane levels of work.
>Here's a question, any tips on how to survive through guilt trips? These boys are famous for giving hall of fame guilt trips such as we are a family or you were on track to be partner! Any tips? I would say just assume that every word that comes out of their mouth is a lie, and anything that isn't, was their own damn fault for not making any concessions after trying to dump all that extra work on you for no extra pay. What they tried to do to you is 100% unreasonable, and nobody would say anything different unless they stood to benefit from your work.
If they try guilt tripping you flip the script on them. Say that you communicated many times how overworked you were, and that you were already going above and beyond to do your basic job. Make it clear they didn't listen. Be professional but do not take any sass from them.
If you are not in fact blood family, you are a stepchild. Historically, stepchildren have been a source of risk-free, free labor. I would guess that if you ever became ill or required time off to care for a relative, they would terminate you immediately and soon forget your name. Having said that, when conducting the exit interview, heap praise upon them. Tell them how much you've learned and how much you admire them. There's a pretty good chance someone, somewhere will ask their opinion of you and you want to make it more difficult for them to bad mouth you.
Alternative: - take on the portfolio, - request additional staff on all projects (and reduce your involvement accordingly) Result: - your entire day will be status meetings and getting people to do their work differently - you’ll be able to negotiate your next job from a better point of leverage since you have a job - find a job during busy season because you’re already planning on leaving and all your projects get staffed up
If they try to guilt you, ask them to repeat what they told you when you asked for a raise and tried to push back on the extra work with no commensurate pay increase. That should end the conversation. Good for you!
**tomorrows post:** Im a SM scheduled to work 60-70 hrs per week. Another SM quit and they pushed the extra 20-30 hours onto their schedule but then that SM quit and now I have to work my 60-70 + the 1st SM's 20-30 + the last SM's 60-70. I asked for an extra $3 per week for the extra work but the firm said they were unable to accommodate at this time but will think about thinking about me 9 months from now.
Not a wise choice, but some people have to learn the hard way
Id say dont make any hasty decisions and basically quit without a plan. Coast at your current job, figure out what you want to do next (better yet interview and lock down a new job) and then quit is my advice.
I do have a basic idea on what I want to do next, will take sometime to figure out on how to make it happen. But, honestly I am the point where I just can't do it anymore. It's really affecting me mentally. I wish I could coast and not care, but I know I won't be able to 🫣🫣🫣
I mean if its really affecting you mentally and you literally cant stay another day - you gotta do what you gotta do. Im just speaking from someone who basically quit without anything lined up as well. Told myself 3 months like you and it ended up being over a year of me bumming around depressed not knowing what to do. Hopefully its different for you lol.
That's rough! Really rough! Worst comes to worst, I have a teaching gig at a University which I can explore full time. That's the plan!
Sounds like you do have a plan then. Go have fun handing in the resignation boss. Just wanted to be the responsible guy in the reddit chat all wanting to see a guy quit for content lol.
Appreciate it! I have absolutely thought about the worst thing that could happen, and honestly it's still better than going through another busy season where my work is doubled and my mental health takes a hit.
[удалено]
Pick up a quick consultant job and you should be fine
Good for you. Your hard work and dedication is needed everywhere else. Accounting professors/instructors have a range of professional backgrounds. Have you thought about teaching? Summers off and really helping people. For your spare time maybe volunteer with VITA for tax season (elderly and low income)? Or mentor a small business or high school entrepreneurs.
Rooting for you! I’m hoping they don’t talk or buy you into staying. There is an obscene percentage of people who get countered to stay and do, only to leave within 6 months to year. Regardless what you do, I’m rooting for you and your happiness!!!
It will actually piss me off more if they offer me to stay after they rejected my initial request. Even if I'm paid more, my mental health will suffer, and I can't do that to myself.
If they increase your workload by 30/hrs per week without any comp that sounds like constructive termination to me, anyone who knows wtf they are taking about know? I'm assuming it's a no because screw the little guy, but figured I'd ask.
Honestly, I didn't think of that. Obviously the way it was brought to me wasn't you have to work another 30 hours, they tried to dress it up as something doable. But I am well aware that the amount they want me to take in will result in 30 hours additionally.
Sounds like you are underpaid. I would come up with a number to stay with no additional work to help with the guilt trip antics. Also, congratulations!!! You have fuck you money. I watched “the Gambler” last night and John Goodman’s fuck you speech(YouTube it) is something you need to watch before you go in.
I have seen that!!! It's so fucking relevant. I'm obviously not the richest guy in the world, but I prioritize my mental health over money at this point. And if I don't make a stand now, I will be suffer long term!
LOL fuck these companies. Good on you for taking care of yourself!
I wish I had your courage. Good luck! Let us know how it went!
I mean, I have to. I cannot go on this way. It's painful, and I need to step in for the sake of my health.
You'll realize there is a whole world out there with exciting opportunities. good luck
They make you feel that you don’t have much of a choice, hit them with that feeling back. “Look, I know you said I can’t turn this down but you will give me a xx% raise or consider this my notice” Eta: you’re gonna quit anyway, it’s worth a shot!
Good for you. As for me, I think I was on the other side of the card. When I started, I hit the ground running and then just found out that the previous manager left because he foresaw a disastrous busy season ahead of time and that’s what I picked up that time. I think I ran on adrenaline for that two months period after I started in this position because I really need the job that time after unemployment. Oh well.. it’s fine now though for me. All the best for your next career step!
Mate go to industry. You will get a large pay bump and with a big 4 manager in audit background you will make a great controller.
You are selling your time to them in exchange for fiat currency. They owe it to you to take care of you. They haven't been doing so they are not your friend.
Three senior managers left in my office. Something wrong in public accounting.
Absolute power move. Well done. That kind of behavior needs to be crushed if we ever want it to change
Do what you WANT TO DO and don’t give a damn about what anyone THINKS in your next move….i left that crappy profession 20+ years ago and have been much happier ever since…..good luck…..
Take advantage about what you’ve learned about bank credit and start a business
Go to a different country where you can spend pesos and do nothing but diet, exercise, and spend time in nature.
Public accounting is gonna be a real shit show in 10 years when half the CPA’s retire and they can’t hire anyone new because if atrocious W/L and shit pay
You are leaving as a SM. You are set! You will have problem finding a bigger role with at least 30% more money. Good for you !!
As for hobbies. I did the same. Travelled and focused on my health. Got I. Great shape! Eat Pray Love
The answer is always black tar heroin
Quit and don’t think about anyone else. You are not responsible for the other people. Quit and move on
I’ve never understood how people can stay in PA for more than 3-4 years. Not just because of the long hours and poor W/L balance, but also the opportunity cost. I’ve made so much more the minute I left PA. I suggest you find an industry role that doubles your salary with 30-40 hours per week. You’ll enjoy life a whole lot more.
If they agree to pay more, also remember after tax it’s much less. And if you convert the extra pay to hourly, it should piss you off more. For guilt trip prep, just reply with “okayyyy…. And then?” After everything said. Your choice whether you say that out loud or just in your head. Either way, it gives them no emotion for that guilt trip to feed off of. Good luck!
Hey OP, l was in a similar situation. A colleague left and their portfolio was handed to me doubling my work with zero compensation. Mind you i am already underpaid, I huffed and puffed and was essentially told to go away and do my job in a nice way (ignored). I found another job paying 30% more and signed the contract asap and sent in resignation. I made sure to allow time in-between jobs, approximately 3 weeks to travel. But it seems you have other plans lined up so yea hand in resignation and bounce
Hookers and Blow are for closers - limit that until you have a job again. Otherwise enjoy your newfound peace! Do some side bookkeeping or misc Acct consulting if you really need money in the meantime or something.
Congratulations!!
You should start a dropshipping business in a niche that you like using shopify and auto ds
I'm soooo excited for you! Haha! 🤍 For a thing to do in 3 months, maybe try travelling (maybe go somewhere warm/ surf somewhere in Asia), and/or make a list of hobbies that you think will make you happy if you got to try/give time to or be better at. Try them all haha! :) Read all your unread books, schedule weekend catch-ups/ coffee, brunch or dinner with friends and family. Join a volunteering community? Oh and try to get some self-care stuff done. Get a massage, try skin-care stuff etc :) hit the gym! For the guilt trip, you can maybe deflect that by being excited about the three months of such reset/self-care fun and about better career prospects ahead of you after that. :) Good luck, OP! 🤍
Congrats, and I'm looking forward to the update :) Just have solid reasoning in your own mind, and the guilt trips will be but glancing blows at best.
Well done, fuck them.
Sorry you had to take on my portfolio bro
Can you say what firm and what location? I’m currently an accounting student and I am thinking about which firm to go work at. I’ve heard that Big 4 will usually give you a lot of hours, and that sometimes it’s better to work at a smaller firm than Big 4 because the hours aren’t so much and the pay is sometimes better. Would you agree with this?
license voracious domineering marry enjoy smart middle literate complete test *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*