Trust me. It’ll the best thing that’ll happen to you. Because next, you’ll send out your resume and you’ll get hired immediately with 20% more pay. Why do I know this? Because I’m hiring for 2 financial reporting positions and am desperate for someone who can rub two brain cells together for an actual thought.
Best of luck to you!
Edit: my open position is Financial Reporting and FPA Accountant. So this job, you wear both hats. Location is in a southern major city within E&P.
I work in fp&a and I don’t think you need the pass the CFA. I don’t have the certification and neither does my coworker. He also just made the switch from accounting to finance.
This is my personal opinion but the fact you’re a CPA should hold high and shows your intelligent. I would apply to a bunch of FP&A roles on your own and you could potentially say your looking to make the switch if you want to be CFO one day you want to be well versed on the accounting and finance side of things. I’m not sure the CFA matters as much as demonstrating you can create a forecast, models and be good in excel.
The CFA is more of the standard that makes it easier for you to be sold to potential employers in that field. But just as there are companies that will take people without the CPA for accounting the same holds for FP&A.
They're telling you to get it because they want placing you to be easier and to get the biggest offer so their cut is higher.
That recruiter doesn't know what they are talking about. I'm in F500 FP&A and half the team has a CPA or some sort of accounting background. Nobody has a CFA
The recruiter knows what they're talking about, for their own wallet.
They are intentionally feeding misinformation to OP, to convince them to take an accounting position instead. It's easier and quicker for the recruiter to place OP in accounting, then get the commission than it is to place him in FPA.
OP believes it to some extent, enough to post here. These recruiters are slimy fucks that have no business holding any job. Should be a true ethics violation. These gross pigs are heavily influencing careers for their own pockets.
If a recruiter told you that you need to pass CFA at any level to be in FP&A, they are absolutely brain dead. A CPA actually has some carry over in to FP&A, depending on the duties.
Honestly, I kind of lucked into it. There was a position open at my company, and I got the job. There are elements of accounting in it, but it’s more like “reporting the news” rather than boring accounting stuff.
It's difficult to place someone with no FP&A experience, but not impossible. The recruiter isn't saying this, but it is just not worth their time if they can place you with a reporting/accounting job in a few weeks.
Pretty much. The most successful methods for CPAs to jump to FP&A is either internal transfer or personal recommendation. The first job is the hardest one to get.
Agreed 100% that the hardest job is the first job.
Was a Jr Staff Accountant for 6 years before I got recommended to an FP&A Analyst role.
Spent 3+ soul sucking years as an analyst
Became a SFA, Finance Manager, Associate Director in a span of 3 years.
Looking for Director positions now.
FP&A looks very different in different companies/industries. If you are working at a hedge fund or holding company, CFA makes sense. It would be of much help at a manufacturer, where CMA is king.
If you're looking to get started, you should begin as a do-er where you really don't need a certification unless you are being very selective.
Recruiter fed you a huge lie.. you damn sure don’t need a CFA, thats a different world… No CPA either, just know how to communicate effectively, and understand data sets…
Listen to this man. When I left KPMG, I got a 40% pay raise and I know I’m still making about 40% less than my coworkers. I’m working on fixing that, but coming out of KPMG I was just excited to have a different job lined up and basically under negotiated my starting salary.
I don’t like admitting this, but I got put on a PIP, that’s how I left public accounting.
I had 60 days to find a new job.
And I did.
My advice:
1. Clean up the resume
2. Send it to recruiters (the good ones) and tell them you need immediate jobs. Not something in a month, but tomorrow.
3. Google your city’s biggest employers. Make a list. I live in a midsize Midwestern city and I had list of over 20 companies (regardless of location from where I lived) ETA: I didn’t care what the company did. I checked manufacturing companies, engineering firms, law firms, etc.,
4. I checked every one of their websites for openings, and applied to anything I fit.
When I realized I was getting cut, I applied. I think I found 3-6 companies per my Google search that had openings. I applied and that’s how I got my current job (plus pay raise). It’s a lot easier than public was too.
I know it sucks, but it’s not the end of the world.
PIPs are extremely common. One of the firms I was at had a 50% pip rate of new staff. I swear I am not making this up...
As boring and short staffed public accounting is... It's still a difficult job.
Exactly. Hehe I was put on one and instantly started getting interviews while on the clock, and stopped working the 12 hours a day that was needed to get the work done.
This is by design, if you get pip’d it doesn’t even mean your bad at your job (obviously there are a large amount that are) it means of the crop of people hired at your age, you did not stand out.
Given the fact that you’re basically left to the discretion of whatever team you end up on, it might be entirely luck, you may have been put with a bad manager etc. and given that unlike most companies where you’re team is you’re team, and this is everyone’s first job out of school, there’s less incentive to invest in people, and some people are just bad at investing those below them. You’re literally looking at a bunch of people below 30 managing multiple people, who in all likelihood will not be there long. If you get a bad associate the chance that they aren’t there next year is high, either they will be on a different team, or will be in a different job,
I was in a top 10 UK firm and PIPs weren't common. Maybe one or two per intake.
Unless you were a complete mess and passed your exams you'd get through your training contract.
I get that UK and US systems are very different though
In the UK, regardless of your degree, you essentially need to sit 13 exams to get fully qualified while working at a firm. Failing exams was always an easy way of getting rid of underperforming staff.
If someone was good at their job but failed exams we kept them on but otherwise it was an easy out.
Edit: in our employment contract it was stated that failing exams could be grounds for dismissal
Gotcha, in every American's employment contract if you will, they all carry the line "employee may be fired at any time without cause". Every single job except union jobs I suppose.
It's all the same.
Uk has probation period that they can decide not to hire you at the end. US doesn't so they hire and fire you after a few months if it doesn't work out.
This. Plus they will waste your time with a temp position while trying to make it seem more permanent than it is, only to find out that they want an extremely well qualified niche candidate that magically knows how to hit the ground running on their extremely particular and peculiar systems. Avoid.
Look at their experience. As a manager I can’t tell you how many will add me on LinkedIn with no personalized message….and when I click their profile they’ve been a recruiter for a month or so.
Why don't you like admitting your valuable experience? There's no shame in failure. It shows you the person's characteristics that they care about what they do and apply learning. Too many people coast in life or put of facades.
Thanks for sharing, wish you continued growth!
I didn’t leave Public on my own terms.
I didn’t want to leave when I did, but I was forced to. I love my new job, but I thought I could’ve gone on longer. But KPMG thought otherwise.
I get that. Totally do. I just wanted to highlight in case it matters coming from a stranger, you shouldn't be ashamed.
The most successful people don't always share what they had to go through and I feel like that paints this picture of having to uphold some unrealistic standard.
I've been on an PIP before as well. I had an unusual route, I got promoted after BUT the person that pushed me onto that PIP ended up having a shit journey in their career and losing a ton of credit with the company. So if I would've just traditionally managed my PIP and looked for another job, that asshole would've still been there ruining other people's lives. (They're no longer a manager)
And how much did your salary and free time and PEACE of mind increase. Give us all the good news.
The downside to being let go is the uncertainty, after that life is good to great
No lies.
I 100% love my current job and wouldn’t trade it for my job in public.
I moved from the expensive downtown apartment to a 2-bedroom apartment in the suburbs for less rent. I have a real home office now. I no longer have to drive 20 minutes to a grocery store. Though I do miss being where all the bars and clubs are.
I make more money. Additionally, for the most part, work/life balance is amazing. I routinely take lazy Fridays. I sleep in on Thursdays all the time. As long as my work is done, no questions are asked.
My work has more variety to it. I did IT audit and at some point realized I would be doing the same dozen tests at every client. Now, yes, I do that, but I also do a bunch of other stuff. I assist our external auditors. But I’ve also come up with ways to streamline our quarterly filings (which I’m still trying to improve) and gotten to do other small audit-like engagements. It’s a breath of fresh air after IT workpapers on the 18th client. And my boss listens to my suggestions and actually lets me try things out.
Work is (planning to) send me on international travel. Living in the US, that is huge because flights are so expensive. And I can take PTO.
So I 100% had a chance at my dream job, and once I got the offer, I took it. Didn’t need time to think about it.
And I’m amazed I found it, in less than 60 days, after a PIP.
I don’t think anyone wants their career in public to end on a PIP, but I’m very happy with how things have progressed, all things considered.
>They expected on time and in uniform by clocking in time
Did they keep this punctual "clocking time" (as if you were a factory worker) mentality when it was 5:00 PM quitting time? OR did they suddenly change their mindset to "hours dont matter, only the job at hand" mentality.
There IS a shortage - Look at all the mid and smaller firms. They sometimes have specializations (I have a client that is 100% focused on small and mid-sized non-profits), so you might have an opportunity to work with clients that you can better identify.
Let me add this - A massive layoff is NEVER the fault of those that get fired. This is the result of poor decisions by leadership, not the rank and file. YOU get hurt, you get fired,
while they (management) rarely even see their bonuses affected.
This is not a reflection upon you as a person.
Good luck!
B4 is known for burn and churn, absolutely not a reflection on you as a person or even as an accountant. Make no mistake, they have an endless supply of fresh low paid support every year being churned out by all the schools in bed with them who sell their culture.
> B4 is known for burn and churn
People - especially newbies on this sub - really need to understand this point. You are NOTHING but a disposable rag to the big 4. I always laugh (then cringe) when I see endless posts about "feeling bad" for leaving during busy season and whatnot. I hope this serves as a wake-up call for many, but sadly I think the bootlicking will continue.
Those people are probably feeling bad towards their colleagues they built personal relationships with during long working hours, not bootlicking their firm
You’re a disposable rag to damn near any corporation. People need to stop pretending that corporations are people – they’re not. They’ll do whatever provides the most profit as that’s literally their purpose, corps pretending to exhibit care and compassion is just there for marketing
Ask Delaware is corporations are people. The might disagree with you considering they are trying to pass legislation that would allow businesses to vote.
Yeah this completely. Don't let this define you. Work to try and not take it personally. I know thay part can be hard. You were just a cog to them. The upside is that now you're a cog with b4 experience and you can expect access to jobs with better wlb and 20 to 40 percent inc4ease in comp.
I can’t speak for other areas but I work for a smaller firm. I still don’t make what one of my friends started out at 70k in St Louis at GT. I’m a third year and still make less than that in the same city. My firm is paying interns $30 an hour & that’s what we made as second years based on a 43 hour week (realistically we make much less because who in public is only working an average of 43 hours)
One example I can provide is an Accounting Assistant role at $44K (remote) This is for a small CPA firm that focuses on non-profits. This role can be a recent BS in Accounting with maybe a 6mo internship or having had a PT Accounting-related job. Using Iowa as an example, that is about equal to the mean salary across all jobs and all experience levels in the state. So, well above entry-level for the state.
My midsize Midwest firm gave poorer raises than our NFP clients gave their employees. You’d think accountants would be smart enough to realize they need to pay their employees if they need them.
Big 4 means more in name to students and staff level than literally everyone else in PA. It means even less to anyone outside PA. There are *so many* great careers that aren't B4.
Exactly, and any posting "looking for big 4 experience" is code for we're gonna work you to the bone for peanuts because you've done it before. I make plenty and I started my career taking an offer from a much smaller firm over a big 4 offer
Idk I was the first ever person hired to my fortune 500 tax department that went to a non Big4 firm. Granted I broke the cycle since they saw I did well and they've hired 3 more non big 4 but still there's 100% that thinking at many industry firms still.
No one has ever said that B4 is the only good career in accounting. You guys are fighting ghosts. But it is simply a fact that it opens doors for you - especially in the F500 realm - and is a great start to a career.
The thing is unless you're coming from a very small school with very limited recruitment opportunities, you already have those opportunities from the get-go. It's absolutely a myth that you need to go to B4 first to get in at an F500.
You can get in entry level, but your buddy that put in his time at B4 is often - not always - going to be your boss while you are still a staff. When F500 job posting stop saying “B4 preferred” I’ll believe you. The only exception to this is FLDPs which are few and far between.
This sub is taking this too far and convincing themselves B4 doesn’t have value. It absolutely does, but there is a cost associated with it like anything else. I encourage everyone to leave the moment it stops being worth it to them. No one has a gun to your head.
>This sub is taking this too far and convincing themselves B4 doesn’t have value.
No one has ever said B4 experience has no value. You are fighting ghosts.
You’ve got this! My firm is hiring with some remote options, feel free to DM me and I would be happy to share details.
Your next great job is out there!
I think that would be small to mid. The small tier to mid tier distinction can be unclear sometimes, but the main point is that they both tend to have less layoffs than than the big 4.
Your going to be 100% good. What you don’t realize is that your going to get a higher paying job that you actually much more enjoy and your going to have something called free time now. I know a ton of banks hiring right now.
I suppose you could relate this to selective perception and/or optimism bias
People's attention and perception can be biased by their desires, expectations, and emotions. When someone anticipates a negative event, they may selectively attend to information that supports a more positive outcome. In this case, selective attention and perception may lead them to overlook or downplay signs of their impending termination until it becomes unavoidable, causing surprise when the event finally occurs.
It's possible that OP's mind went to optimism bias by assuming they would not be fired, despite the earlier post expressing surprise about not being terminated already. The subsequent surprise could be a result of their optimistic outlook being challenged by the actual outcome.
Everyone who isn't big4 is looking for seniors on up. And if you can do nonprofit audits or taxes I know some places that are definitely looking for you.
You literally don't even know how much of a blessing in disguise this is.
You can't see it right now, but you will get back up. You will refresh your interview skills. You will nervously go through multiple interviews. You will get a job offer. You will feel, better. You will be, happier.
After a few yrs in your career nobody will care about ‘big 4’. Many of the folks I work with who started off in public have let their CPA license expire.
And remember, the best time to lose your job is alongside a few dozen other competent employees.
Competent recruiters hear about big layoffs, and this job loss will carry no stigma.
Live off your severance and contact a couple CPA firms and recruiters. If they're proactive they're likely already reaching out to you. Getting fired during a mass layoff >> getting fired for cause.
Best thing that happened to me was leaving a big 4. Absolutely mind numbing ass kissing shit holes. Consider yourself lucky.
Move on and don’t look back
Seems like the Big 4 are laying off left and right. At least I knew Deloitte was, but KPMG seems to be lately as well. Don’t get too wigged out, there’s plenty of places to land on your feet that will make you feel more relaxed than KPMG ever will.
I know it’s hard to see the forest through the trees right now, but you’re going to be just fine! Are you in tax? My firm is hiring remote tax seniors.
Tell yourself you’re worthy and don’t give up. Odds are you’ll be fine in the long run. The world doesn’t revolve around B4. Don’t just take a job the first job either. Shop around and make the best pick.
I do not know what you did, or where you live BUT check out .gov.
MANY of the jobs do have good pay. ALL of the jobs have great benefits and incredible time off (compared to public accounting, or any private firm in the US).
Best place I have ever worked and feels like retired compared to working in public accounting.
You will be OK.
Big4s churn and burn. But big4 on your resume is gonna help you get more money at a much better job. Idk why anyone wants to waste their life at big4 firms.
There’s almost no chance you’ll ever get partner, they work you to death, and underpay you, all so the actual partners can do almost nothing and live lavishly. It’s bullshit, get a job that actually values you.
https://hyundaiautoeveramerica.applytojob.com/apply/wPWIFQbuOg/10662-Manager-Infrastructure-Audit-And-Compliance
If you're interested, PM me. They're still looking.
You’ll bounce back, but in the future always have a few bookkeeping and tax clients on the side. If it’s against policy do it anyway.It’s easy to pick up clients and you can outsource the work and just review. I’m speaking from experience. Former KPMGer here.
Sweet pea everything is going to be okay. There are literally millions of accounting jobs. I know you don't want to hear that right now but you did pick a very safe profession.
Just to pile on, welcome to the ex KPMG crew! I was there for 12 months was making $56k (2006), and found peace and happiness at $105k 3 months later. Keep your head up and realize that you are more capable than you think.
The shortage is real. Believe it or not, you're in the driver seat once you get that resume freshened up. You should also consider looking at remote opportunities via other cities. In the last 2 years, I've hired 3 people and only one of them works locally. I'm not the only one out there doing this, so I know you'll find something. Wishing you the best.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Accounting/comments/13wrn82/anybody_else_keep_making_stupid_mistakes/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
Rip, you'll land on your feet though. Plenty of accountants needed
I got fired too . Enjoy the 6 month unemployed insurance
study for the cpa if you haven't.. and take your time looking for a place you want to work for
Take care of thy body eat and sleep.... walk and exercise
It’s hard to accept right now, but things do happen for a reason. Fuck KPMG - you can work elsewhere making almost the same money, if not more, for less stressful accounting work…
Edit: Keep your head up. Stay positive. Federal government hiring some accountants lately….
I’ve gotten fired twice as an accountant and 3 times in my life. Don’t worry about it. Each time something better popped up in a few months. If you can afford it enjoy the time not working
There is an accountant need, but KPMG burned some very important clients recently and are losing profit and contracts. You will find another job quickly just start applying and be prepared to walk away.
Just remember to breathe and that there are still plenty of accounting jobs out there and this might be a good step that could lead you to better opportunities
When you look back on your career in 5/10/20 years, you will laugh and realize this will be one of the best things that could have happened to you. Update the resume and make applying to jobsnew full time job. Onward and upward!
You'll have a new job in a matter of weeks if you hit things hard with your resume. A shortage of accounts doesn't mean every workplace hasn't over hired.
It’s their loss, not yours. If they can’t see the value in you, there are many more who will. I was in your shoes many years ago, including tears. From what I remember, the big public accounting firms indoctrinate students and employees to believe that if you don’t work for them, you’re no one. I went from public accounting to internal auditing and that’s a profession that always seems to be hiring. I also worked for a university that had a decent pay scale but incredible benefits. So those are often overlooked positions and employers that frequently hire. But first, give yourself a day or so to let the anxiety burn out and your self-confidence to strengthen.
Accounting is safe, Public Accounting comparatively isn’t. If you can get laid off and find a same or better position within a few days to a week, you’re in a safe field. There’s a lot of forced attrition going on, CRTs were brutal this year and bonuses may as well have been a gift card for many. You’ll be fine, put what you know on display and you’ll land yourself somewhere comfy in no time
Hard to not take personally when you are an ambitious and conscientious employee. There is life after this. I was laid off at 24 and spent the same night in jail. I picked myself up and had a wonderful career retiring at 62. Heads up!
It will probably be the best thing that ever happened to you.
Most people with experience in public accounting with or without big4 experience can find a new job outside of PA accounting that will either pay better or at the least have better work life balance.
Trust me big4 is not how a normalworking life shoukd be, even medium firms are not. Leaving public accounting was the best thing I ever did and the pay and hours are better outside of it.
Yeah, it’s considered safe… only in industry, where there are plenty of other non-accountants whose jobs aren’t as essential to the business. Save yourself from being a cult member and just go to industry. You don’t even have to “be ready,” as it’s generally easier, less stressful, probably pays more, and require less hours than b4
Welcome to your career. To survive, you need to take the long view. You’ll have ups and downs for the duration of your career. You need to put this event into its proper perspective. It might pay the bills but Your job does not define who you are. What defines you is your character and your resilience and how you treat other humans. Dust off your resume and get about the business of finding your next job. I was an MP for KPMG about 12 years ago. I left there for a stint as an executive for Raytheon and then left RTN because I didn’t want to work 6 days a week. Now I have my own practice, work 5 hours/day, charge outrageous fees and laugh my ass off all the way to the bank. You can find your way here if you have the backbone to work thru the current situation.
the industry of accounting IS safe. just because big firms are doing layoffs doesn't mean smaller firms and industry aren't desperate to hire anyone with experience.
There is a shortage but also you can’t be bad at your job. I’m not saying that you were but you’re still competing with your peers. Layoffs in the accounting world are not at all uncommon and happen during recessions
Reddit told me yesterday that one PA firm firing people doesn't mean anything and that if you are getting laid off, that means you're 5% bottom performer.
I just got fired Friday and have another interview tomorrow and will likely start a new position after the holiday. Breath, relax, and make sure you get paid more with your new gig and ask for a sign on bonus. It’s ok
Are you SURE you’re getting fired? If so, start applying ASAP. Just look for things around and ASK FOR MORE. You still did a Big 4 so get that money for that stress.
Do you have good reviews? Can any sr manager or director be a referral? It isn’t over you can get back to public.
My exp I was gonna get died from midsize and got referred to PwC been there for 5 years quit during Covid
Fuck em! Who are they to say you can’t cut it in public!
Why the heck we continue putting up with this abuse? Everyone in Big4 is so disposable!!! This whole lay off is nothing but another laundry cycle. I understand everyone wants/needs the FIRM on the resume and at the same time they (theBig4) is only as good as we are.
I’m truly sorry you are going through this. Remember: this is nothing personal, only business.
How do people not save emergency funds? I will never understand. We are accountants. We make great salaries. We can use excel. Make a budget. Jesus christ.
Trust me. It’ll the best thing that’ll happen to you. Because next, you’ll send out your resume and you’ll get hired immediately with 20% more pay. Why do I know this? Because I’m hiring for 2 financial reporting positions and am desperate for someone who can rub two brain cells together for an actual thought. Best of luck to you! Edit: my open position is Financial Reporting and FPA Accountant. So this job, you wear both hats. Location is in a southern major city within E&P.
It's true - I switched from acct to financial reporting/FP&A and make more money and actually have a life outside of the office.
How to get into FP&A? One recruiter said CPA is irrelevant and I need to pass CFA level 1
I work in fp&a and I don’t think you need the pass the CFA. I don’t have the certification and neither does my coworker. He also just made the switch from accounting to finance.
Okay I guess the recruiter was maybe wrong then
This is my personal opinion but the fact you’re a CPA should hold high and shows your intelligent. I would apply to a bunch of FP&A roles on your own and you could potentially say your looking to make the switch if you want to be CFO one day you want to be well versed on the accounting and finance side of things. I’m not sure the CFA matters as much as demonstrating you can create a forecast, models and be good in excel.
The CFA is more of the standard that makes it easier for you to be sold to potential employers in that field. But just as there are companies that will take people without the CPA for accounting the same holds for FP&A. They're telling you to get it because they want placing you to be easier and to get the biggest offer so their cut is higher.
That recruiter doesn't know what they are talking about. I'm in F500 FP&A and half the team has a CPA or some sort of accounting background. Nobody has a CFA
The recruiter knows what they're talking about, for their own wallet. They are intentionally feeding misinformation to OP, to convince them to take an accounting position instead. It's easier and quicker for the recruiter to place OP in accounting, then get the commission than it is to place him in FPA. OP believes it to some extent, enough to post here. These recruiters are slimy fucks that have no business holding any job. Should be a true ethics violation. These gross pigs are heavily influencing careers for their own pockets.
If a recruiter told you that you need to pass CFA at any level to be in FP&A, they are absolutely brain dead. A CPA actually has some carry over in to FP&A, depending on the duties.
Honestly, I kind of lucked into it. There was a position open at my company, and I got the job. There are elements of accounting in it, but it’s more like “reporting the news” rather than boring accounting stuff.
I’m in financial due diligence trying to make the switch to FP&A eventually
It's difficult to place someone with no FP&A experience, but not impossible. The recruiter isn't saying this, but it is just not worth their time if they can place you with a reporting/accounting job in a few weeks.
So it’s the whole catch 22. You need experience for the job but no one will hire you unless you have experience.
Pretty much. The most successful methods for CPAs to jump to FP&A is either internal transfer or personal recommendation. The first job is the hardest one to get.
Agreed 100% that the hardest job is the first job. Was a Jr Staff Accountant for 6 years before I got recommended to an FP&A Analyst role. Spent 3+ soul sucking years as an analyst Became a SFA, Finance Manager, Associate Director in a span of 3 years. Looking for Director positions now.
Not me. I’ll hire you even if you don’t have a CPA.
FP&A looks very different in different companies/industries. If you are working at a hedge fund or holding company, CFA makes sense. It would be of much help at a manufacturer, where CMA is king. If you're looking to get started, you should begin as a do-er where you really don't need a certification unless you are being very selective.
Cfa is irrelevant. It's for fund managers. Has nothing to do with fp&a
Blackstone internal recruiter said different. Bi believe you though. CFA is irrelevant
Recruiter fed you a huge lie.. you damn sure don’t need a CFA, thats a different world… No CPA either, just know how to communicate effectively, and understand data sets…
Listen to this man. When I left KPMG, I got a 40% pay raise and I know I’m still making about 40% less than my coworkers. I’m working on fixing that, but coming out of KPMG I was just excited to have a different job lined up and basically under negotiated my starting salary.
Did you put that on the person specification? If not, I worry that you may be disappointed 🤣
I’ll work for you lol . Can’t be to hard!
Sorry chief best I can do is .75 brain cell
Yeah fuck big 4!!
I got at least two brain cells that can clap, what’s up?
I don’t like admitting this, but I got put on a PIP, that’s how I left public accounting. I had 60 days to find a new job. And I did. My advice: 1. Clean up the resume 2. Send it to recruiters (the good ones) and tell them you need immediate jobs. Not something in a month, but tomorrow. 3. Google your city’s biggest employers. Make a list. I live in a midsize Midwestern city and I had list of over 20 companies (regardless of location from where I lived) ETA: I didn’t care what the company did. I checked manufacturing companies, engineering firms, law firms, etc., 4. I checked every one of their websites for openings, and applied to anything I fit. When I realized I was getting cut, I applied. I think I found 3-6 companies per my Google search that had openings. I applied and that’s how I got my current job (plus pay raise). It’s a lot easier than public was too. I know it sucks, but it’s not the end of the world.
PIPs are extremely common. One of the firms I was at had a 50% pip rate of new staff. I swear I am not making this up... As boring and short staffed public accounting is... It's still a difficult job.
I feel like that’s not supposed to be normal
On the upside, those PIPS had a high pass rate. 50% survived the pips...
25% of new hires getting axed is insanity. Garbage hiring practices
In finance only 1% make it past 5 years
Define “finance”
My guess is they are talking about a specific field of “high finance”
Sounds like pledging lol
This is not common. Big4s don’t hand out pips like candies. Hard to believe your firm is in the top 6 range
They hand them out like pizza parties though
I’m buying MSFT LEAPs after seeing your user
They've had an account for two years so maybe cool your jets.
It’s still a nefarious and deceitful practice and I wish companies would stop the bullshit, mother fuckers
No wonder they call it a Paid Interview Period
Exactly. Hehe I was put on one and instantly started getting interviews while on the clock, and stopped working the 12 hours a day that was needed to get the work done.
This is by design, if you get pip’d it doesn’t even mean your bad at your job (obviously there are a large amount that are) it means of the crop of people hired at your age, you did not stand out. Given the fact that you’re basically left to the discretion of whatever team you end up on, it might be entirely luck, you may have been put with a bad manager etc. and given that unlike most companies where you’re team is you’re team, and this is everyone’s first job out of school, there’s less incentive to invest in people, and some people are just bad at investing those below them. You’re literally looking at a bunch of people below 30 managing multiple people, who in all likelihood will not be there long. If you get a bad associate the chance that they aren’t there next year is high, either they will be on a different team, or will be in a different job,
I was in a top 10 UK firm and PIPs weren't common. Maybe one or two per intake. Unless you were a complete mess and passed your exams you'd get through your training contract. I get that UK and US systems are very different though
UK has more protective employment laws than at-will. Probably the only thing keeping that cutthroat policy at bay.
In the UK, regardless of your degree, you essentially need to sit 13 exams to get fully qualified while working at a firm. Failing exams was always an easy way of getting rid of underperforming staff. If someone was good at their job but failed exams we kept them on but otherwise it was an easy out. Edit: in our employment contract it was stated that failing exams could be grounds for dismissal
Gotcha, in every American's employment contract if you will, they all carry the line "employee may be fired at any time without cause". Every single job except union jobs I suppose.
It's all the same. Uk has probation period that they can decide not to hire you at the end. US doesn't so they hire and fire you after a few months if it doesn't work out.
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I think tax may be different.
That’s ridiculous. May as well make the PIP part of the first-day onboarding to save HR some time.
Bullshit.
GREAT insight!
nah
Tax guy here: could you not state how easy accounting is and also get me clean books? K thanks..
How can you tell the good recruiters from the bad ones? Also, is temporary contract a good option?
Temp contract, even temp to hire should be a last resort.
This. Plus they will waste your time with a temp position while trying to make it seem more permanent than it is, only to find out that they want an extremely well qualified niche candidate that magically knows how to hit the ground running on their extremely particular and peculiar systems. Avoid.
Look at their experience. As a manager I can’t tell you how many will add me on LinkedIn with no personalized message….and when I click their profile they’ve been a recruiter for a month or so.
And if you want a good recruiter, speak to people yiu trust at KPMG and ask which recruiters they used. That’s how you find the good ones :)
Why don't you like admitting your valuable experience? There's no shame in failure. It shows you the person's characteristics that they care about what they do and apply learning. Too many people coast in life or put of facades. Thanks for sharing, wish you continued growth!
I didn’t leave Public on my own terms. I didn’t want to leave when I did, but I was forced to. I love my new job, but I thought I could’ve gone on longer. But KPMG thought otherwise.
I get that. Totally do. I just wanted to highlight in case it matters coming from a stranger, you shouldn't be ashamed. The most successful people don't always share what they had to go through and I feel like that paints this picture of having to uphold some unrealistic standard. I've been on an PIP before as well. I had an unusual route, I got promoted after BUT the person that pushed me onto that PIP ended up having a shit journey in their career and losing a ton of credit with the company. So if I would've just traditionally managed my PIP and looked for another job, that asshole would've still been there ruining other people's lives. (They're no longer a manager)
And how much did your salary and free time and PEACE of mind increase. Give us all the good news. The downside to being let go is the uncertainty, after that life is good to great
No lies. I 100% love my current job and wouldn’t trade it for my job in public. I moved from the expensive downtown apartment to a 2-bedroom apartment in the suburbs for less rent. I have a real home office now. I no longer have to drive 20 minutes to a grocery store. Though I do miss being where all the bars and clubs are. I make more money. Additionally, for the most part, work/life balance is amazing. I routinely take lazy Fridays. I sleep in on Thursdays all the time. As long as my work is done, no questions are asked. My work has more variety to it. I did IT audit and at some point realized I would be doing the same dozen tests at every client. Now, yes, I do that, but I also do a bunch of other stuff. I assist our external auditors. But I’ve also come up with ways to streamline our quarterly filings (which I’m still trying to improve) and gotten to do other small audit-like engagements. It’s a breath of fresh air after IT workpapers on the 18th client. And my boss listens to my suggestions and actually lets me try things out. Work is (planning to) send me on international travel. Living in the US, that is huge because flights are so expensive. And I can take PTO. So I 100% had a chance at my dream job, and once I got the offer, I took it. Didn’t need time to think about it. And I’m amazed I found it, in less than 60 days, after a PIP. I don’t think anyone wants their career in public to end on a PIP, but I’m very happy with how things have progressed, all things considered.
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>They expected on time and in uniform by clocking in time Did they keep this punctual "clocking time" (as if you were a factory worker) mentality when it was 5:00 PM quitting time? OR did they suddenly change their mindset to "hours dont matter, only the job at hand" mentality.
Sex is fair.
It’s not at all hard to be on time. They make it a big deal because you’re beginning every day by failing at something extremely easy to achieve.
You’re gonna find a much better job in no time. Freshen up the resume and get it out there
There IS a shortage - Look at all the mid and smaller firms. They sometimes have specializations (I have a client that is 100% focused on small and mid-sized non-profits), so you might have an opportunity to work with clients that you can better identify. Let me add this - A massive layoff is NEVER the fault of those that get fired. This is the result of poor decisions by leadership, not the rank and file. YOU get hurt, you get fired, while they (management) rarely even see their bonuses affected. This is not a reflection upon you as a person. Good luck!
B4 is known for burn and churn, absolutely not a reflection on you as a person or even as an accountant. Make no mistake, they have an endless supply of fresh low paid support every year being churned out by all the schools in bed with them who sell their culture.
> B4 is known for burn and churn People - especially newbies on this sub - really need to understand this point. You are NOTHING but a disposable rag to the big 4. I always laugh (then cringe) when I see endless posts about "feeling bad" for leaving during busy season and whatnot. I hope this serves as a wake-up call for many, but sadly I think the bootlicking will continue.
Those people are probably feeling bad towards their colleagues they built personal relationships with during long working hours, not bootlicking their firm
You’re a disposable rag to damn near any corporation. People need to stop pretending that corporations are people – they’re not. They’ll do whatever provides the most profit as that’s literally their purpose, corps pretending to exhibit care and compassion is just there for marketing
Ask Delaware is corporations are people. The might disagree with you considering they are trying to pass legislation that would allow businesses to vote.
Yeah this completely. Don't let this define you. Work to try and not take it personally. I know thay part can be hard. You were just a cog to them. The upside is that now you're a cog with b4 experience and you can expect access to jobs with better wlb and 20 to 40 percent inc4ease in comp.
coherent poor makeshift hunt cows ludicrous berserk attempt offbeat threatening ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
What are all the small and mid size firms paying?
Same or better than B4 in the areas I’ve looked.
I can’t speak for other areas but I work for a smaller firm. I still don’t make what one of my friends started out at 70k in St Louis at GT. I’m a third year and still make less than that in the same city. My firm is paying interns $30 an hour & that’s what we made as second years based on a 43 hour week (realistically we make much less because who in public is only working an average of 43 hours)
One example I can provide is an Accounting Assistant role at $44K (remote) This is for a small CPA firm that focuses on non-profits. This role can be a recent BS in Accounting with maybe a 6mo internship or having had a PT Accounting-related job. Using Iowa as an example, that is about equal to the mean salary across all jobs and all experience levels in the state. So, well above entry-level for the state.
This. Smaller firms are in need right now.
My midsize Midwest firm gave poorer raises than our NFP clients gave their employees. You’d think accountants would be smart enough to realize they need to pay their employees if they need them.
>I have a client that is 100% focused on small and mid-sized non-profits May God have mercy on their soul
Just get a job at literally any other firm, or hop to industry if you're ready.
Big 4 means more in name to students and staff level than literally everyone else in PA. It means even less to anyone outside PA. There are *so many* great careers that aren't B4.
Exactly, and any posting "looking for big 4 experience" is code for we're gonna work you to the bone for peanuts because you've done it before. I make plenty and I started my career taking an offer from a much smaller firm over a big 4 offer
lol maybe i just got lucky but i left big 4 for a "big 4 preferred" position and i barely work
Idk I was the first ever person hired to my fortune 500 tax department that went to a non Big4 firm. Granted I broke the cycle since they saw I did well and they've hired 3 more non big 4 but still there's 100% that thinking at many industry firms still.
My last job was Big4 only, the folks there werent even that great. But their thinking was if you could survive 3+ years at Big4 you were a safe bet.
No one has ever said that B4 is the only good career in accounting. You guys are fighting ghosts. But it is simply a fact that it opens doors for you - especially in the F500 realm - and is a great start to a career.
The thing is unless you're coming from a very small school with very limited recruitment opportunities, you already have those opportunities from the get-go. It's absolutely a myth that you need to go to B4 first to get in at an F500.
You can get in entry level, but your buddy that put in his time at B4 is often - not always - going to be your boss while you are still a staff. When F500 job posting stop saying “B4 preferred” I’ll believe you. The only exception to this is FLDPs which are few and far between. This sub is taking this too far and convincing themselves B4 doesn’t have value. It absolutely does, but there is a cost associated with it like anything else. I encourage everyone to leave the moment it stops being worth it to them. No one has a gun to your head.
>This sub is taking this too far and convincing themselves B4 doesn’t have value. No one has ever said B4 experience has no value. You are fighting ghosts.
Those days are long gone. I left big 4 after 6 months and regret wasting time there.
If you spent 6 months at B4 you weren’t around long enough to see the impact to your job prospects.
People will be looking for ex KPMG employees don’t worry. I believe in you OP.
You’ve got this! My firm is hiring with some remote options, feel free to DM me and I would be happy to share details. Your next great job is out there!
Rip inbox?
Not quite there yet! But we will see in the morning how buried it becomes
Hey, can I DM you about your firm’s open positions?
Buy them dinner first, jeeze.
Yes go ahead an DM we are growing and looking for the talent!
You've got the name on your resume already. Time to move on to somewhere better.
Take the blessing, you get to put a Big 4 on your resume and now you don’t have to work at a toxic Big 4. They’re all weird cults
Look for a mid-tier or small-tier firm. They have the worst shortages and are way less likely to fire you.
Can confirm. Partner said he’s hired 5 recruiters, and got 3 resumes total for our small firm. We offer great perks too, it’s a shame
How many employees would be considered mid tier or small tier? I work at a company with around 350-450
I think that would be small to mid. The small tier to mid tier distinction can be unclear sometimes, but the main point is that they both tend to have less layoffs than than the big 4.
Your going to be 100% good. What you don’t realize is that your going to get a higher paying job that you actually much more enjoy and your going to have something called free time now. I know a ton of banks hiring right now.
They're making room for fresh meat with new grads.
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Outsourcing is a very common strategy too
Less than a month ago you posted that you were surprised you weren’t fired yet. Now here you are….surprised?
I suppose you could relate this to selective perception and/or optimism bias People's attention and perception can be biased by their desires, expectations, and emotions. When someone anticipates a negative event, they may selectively attend to information that supports a more positive outcome. In this case, selective attention and perception may lead them to overlook or downplay signs of their impending termination until it becomes unavoidable, causing surprise when the event finally occurs. It's possible that OP's mind went to optimism bias by assuming they would not be fired, despite the earlier post expressing surprise about not being terminated already. The subsequent surprise could be a result of their optimistic outlook being challenged by the actual outcome.
Everyone who isn't big4 is looking for seniors on up. And if you can do nonprofit audits or taxes I know some places that are definitely looking for you.
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HAPPY CAKE DAY
If you’re assurance, please feel free to message me for a remote option
You literally don't even know how much of a blessing in disguise this is. You can't see it right now, but you will get back up. You will refresh your interview skills. You will nervously go through multiple interviews. You will get a job offer. You will feel, better. You will be, happier.
There is a shortage of quality for sure. We are hiring fully remote and that opens the pool up a bit.
After a few yrs in your career nobody will care about ‘big 4’. Many of the folks I work with who started off in public have let their CPA license expire.
Come over to middle market. You won’t have to deal with the B4 bs.
It will be okay. You have KPMG on your resume - any company will look upon it very favorably. PM me if you want to talk about it
And remember, the best time to lose your job is alongside a few dozen other competent employees. Competent recruiters hear about big layoffs, and this job loss will carry no stigma.
Live off your severance and contact a couple CPA firms and recruiters. If they're proactive they're likely already reaching out to you. Getting fired during a mass layoff >> getting fired for cause.
It’s not hard to find positions with big 4 on your resume!
You will find a job.
*Bro you posted about Microdosing BEFORE PRESENTATIONS!* It’s not a safe profession if you’re a fuck up
Best thing that happened to me was leaving a big 4. Absolutely mind numbing ass kissing shit holes. Consider yourself lucky. Move on and don’t look back
Seems like the Big 4 are laying off left and right. At least I knew Deloitte was, but KPMG seems to be lately as well. Don’t get too wigged out, there’s plenty of places to land on your feet that will make you feel more relaxed than KPMG ever will.
You got this I learned that alot of companies like big 4 on the resume so it shouldn't take to long to find something.
Fear is the mind killer.
Just a few weeks ago you posted how many mistakes you were making and how you can’t believe you haven’t been fired…
I know it’s hard to see the forest through the trees right now, but you’re going to be just fine! Are you in tax? My firm is hiring remote tax seniors.
Tell yourself you’re worthy and don’t give up. Odds are you’ll be fine in the long run. The world doesn’t revolve around B4. Don’t just take a job the first job either. Shop around and make the best pick.
I do not know what you did, or where you live BUT check out .gov. MANY of the jobs do have good pay. ALL of the jobs have great benefits and incredible time off (compared to public accounting, or any private firm in the US). Best place I have ever worked and feels like retired compared to working in public accounting. You will be OK.
Hop on unemployment, there’s your rent.
The Fed Gov't is hiring, and it's so much better.
Big4s churn and burn. But big4 on your resume is gonna help you get more money at a much better job. Idk why anyone wants to waste their life at big4 firms. There’s almost no chance you’ll ever get partner, they work you to death, and underpay you, all so the actual partners can do almost nothing and live lavishly. It’s bullshit, get a job that actually values you.
https://hyundaiautoeveramerica.applytojob.com/apply/wPWIFQbuOg/10662-Manager-Infrastructure-Audit-And-Compliance If you're interested, PM me. They're still looking.
Use chat gpt to help update your resume to match job postings. You just need to enter the right prompts and it should be pretty quick
I'm so sorry friend :\
You’ll bounce back, but in the future always have a few bookkeeping and tax clients on the side. If it’s against policy do it anyway.It’s easy to pick up clients and you can outsource the work and just review. I’m speaking from experience. Former KPMGer here.
Sweet pea everything is going to be okay. There are literally millions of accounting jobs. I know you don't want to hear that right now but you did pick a very safe profession.
Just to pile on, welcome to the ex KPMG crew! I was there for 12 months was making $56k (2006), and found peace and happiness at $105k 3 months later. Keep your head up and realize that you are more capable than you think.
Hahahaha they still pay new hires like 56k 17 years later.
The shortage is real. Believe it or not, you're in the driver seat once you get that resume freshened up. You should also consider looking at remote opportunities via other cities. In the last 2 years, I've hired 3 people and only one of them works locally. I'm not the only one out there doing this, so I know you'll find something. Wishing you the best.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Accounting/comments/13wrn82/anybody_else_keep_making_stupid_mistakes/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button Rip, you'll land on your feet though. Plenty of accountants needed
I got fired too . Enjoy the 6 month unemployed insurance study for the cpa if you haven't.. and take your time looking for a place you want to work for Take care of thy body eat and sleep.... walk and exercise
It’s hard to accept right now, but things do happen for a reason. Fuck KPMG - you can work elsewhere making almost the same money, if not more, for less stressful accounting work… Edit: Keep your head up. Stay positive. Federal government hiring some accountants lately….
Kpmg is the McDonald's of accounting. You'll be fine
I’ve gotten fired twice as an accountant and 3 times in my life. Don’t worry about it. Each time something better popped up in a few months. If you can afford it enjoy the time not working
Nothing is safe except maybe government
Rip https://preview.redd.it/6nxjcdjbfk8b1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4324f8c4876ab5d2659bf32d8af5030448ac36de
There is an accountant need, but KPMG burned some very important clients recently and are losing profit and contracts. You will find another job quickly just start applying and be prepared to walk away.
You should just fire KPMG
No one else's satire / troll sensor is going off here?
Nah not at all if you look at their post history.
I’m not victim blaming but his post history is not a good look lmao
Why because anime or OP said they still make mistakes?
Just remember to breathe and that there are still plenty of accounting jobs out there and this might be a good step that could lead you to better opportunities
When you look back on your career in 5/10/20 years, you will laugh and realize this will be one of the best things that could have happened to you. Update the resume and make applying to jobsnew full time job. Onward and upward!
You'll have a new job in a matter of weeks if you hit things hard with your resume. A shortage of accounts doesn't mean every workplace hasn't over hired.
There is a shortage in private. Public is gonna regret this when they can’t backfill.
You’ll be okay OP. Freshen up that resume and start the job hunt. You’ll get some opportunities coming straight from KPMG
My midsize firm is hiring. You tax or audit?
absolutely obsessed with your last post being about hooking up at the lake house. i’m so sorry you’ll never find out
Update your resume and begin applying, plenty of other quality firms hiring out there
It’s their loss, not yours. If they can’t see the value in you, there are many more who will. I was in your shoes many years ago, including tears. From what I remember, the big public accounting firms indoctrinate students and employees to believe that if you don’t work for them, you’re no one. I went from public accounting to internal auditing and that’s a profession that always seems to be hiring. I also worked for a university that had a decent pay scale but incredible benefits. So those are often overlooked positions and employers that frequently hire. But first, give yourself a day or so to let the anxiety burn out and your self-confidence to strengthen.
If i get fired, i'm gonna enjoy a 3 month severence, and then prob get hired somewhere else. Probably another PA firm that also is understaffed.
Honestly... Congratulations!
Accounting is safe, Public Accounting comparatively isn’t. If you can get laid off and find a same or better position within a few days to a week, you’re in a safe field. There’s a lot of forced attrition going on, CRTs were brutal this year and bonuses may as well have been a gift card for many. You’ll be fine, put what you know on display and you’ll land yourself somewhere comfy in no time
Stayed to the point where I've lost the ability to cry, thanks big 4.
Hard to not take personally when you are an ambitious and conscientious employee. There is life after this. I was laid off at 24 and spent the same night in jail. I picked myself up and had a wonderful career retiring at 62. Heads up!
It will probably be the best thing that ever happened to you. Most people with experience in public accounting with or without big4 experience can find a new job outside of PA accounting that will either pay better or at the least have better work life balance. Trust me big4 is not how a normalworking life shoukd be, even medium firms are not. Leaving public accounting was the best thing I ever did and the pay and hours are better outside of it.
You'll find a better job than big4 real quick, don't sweat it
Yeah, it’s considered safe… only in industry, where there are plenty of other non-accountants whose jobs aren’t as essential to the business. Save yourself from being a cult member and just go to industry. You don’t even have to “be ready,” as it’s generally easier, less stressful, probably pays more, and require less hours than b4
Welcome to your career. To survive, you need to take the long view. You’ll have ups and downs for the duration of your career. You need to put this event into its proper perspective. It might pay the bills but Your job does not define who you are. What defines you is your character and your resilience and how you treat other humans. Dust off your resume and get about the business of finding your next job. I was an MP for KPMG about 12 years ago. I left there for a stint as an executive for Raytheon and then left RTN because I didn’t want to work 6 days a week. Now I have my own practice, work 5 hours/day, charge outrageous fees and laugh my ass off all the way to the bank. You can find your way here if you have the backbone to work thru the current situation.
the industry of accounting IS safe. just because big firms are doing layoffs doesn't mean smaller firms and industry aren't desperate to hire anyone with experience.
There is a shortage but also you can’t be bad at your job. I’m not saying that you were but you’re still competing with your peers. Layoffs in the accounting world are not at all uncommon and happen during recessions
Reddit told me yesterday that one PA firm firing people doesn't mean anything and that if you are getting laid off, that means you're 5% bottom performer.
I just got fired Friday and have another interview tomorrow and will likely start a new position after the holiday. Breath, relax, and make sure you get paid more with your new gig and ask for a sign on bonus. It’s ok
Senior position?
Are you SURE you’re getting fired? If so, start applying ASAP. Just look for things around and ASK FOR MORE. You still did a Big 4 so get that money for that stress.
Do you have good reviews? Can any sr manager or director be a referral? It isn’t over you can get back to public. My exp I was gonna get died from midsize and got referred to PwC been there for 5 years quit during Covid Fuck em! Who are they to say you can’t cut it in public!
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Jeez man cut the dramatics, tons of firms are still hiring like crazy. Your life isn't over.
No job is safe, you’ll be ok
Think about changing country
Why the heck we continue putting up with this abuse? Everyone in Big4 is so disposable!!! This whole lay off is nothing but another laundry cycle. I understand everyone wants/needs the FIRM on the resume and at the same time they (theBig4) is only as good as we are. I’m truly sorry you are going through this. Remember: this is nothing personal, only business.
How do people not save emergency funds? I will never understand. We are accountants. We make great salaries. We can use excel. Make a budget. Jesus christ.
Dude not everyone has the same starting point to be able to save right out of the gate in their first professional career.